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She always explodes during the holidays due to some childhood trauma. She also always explodes when there are lot of changes, it triggers her abandonment issues. Since we were moving to a new apartment, I had predicted that she would explode as well. I was prepared for it. My goal was to not fight, keep my cool, no matter what. I fucking did it.


Background: This is the most personal post I have written. She went nuts after the pregnancy, trying to kick me out of the house, not feeding him, nor letting me feed him, insanity, divorce threats. My son got very weak. It was as if she took him hostage. I crumbled and gave up all my boundaries in this, even my friends and my time. She lost respect for me, and started acting more aggressive and destructive, trying to find the man in me, and I kept just giving up more and more instead of standing up to myself. I found TRP as part of my process of becoming strong and assertive again to have good boundaries and a healthy relationship. I’ve worked a lot on frame and on letting go on resentment. When I say I used to crumble, I mean I was having panic attacks, like in The Sopranos; left overs from my own ignored baggage of childhood abuse. I had to deal with that head on, no fucking excuses, there is no point blaming my shit parents for this. This is my shit now, I own it, I overcome it.

Yes, I’m the bluest of the blue here. I’m starting from way behind everyone else. There is no shame in that. I’m owning my shit, and I’ll keep improving all the time. This might seem like small stuff, but I feel like a Hero for conquering my panic attacks using Frame.


The move was hard, 4 stories down, then one up. It was up to me and a friend to carry everything. Wife found excuses to not do her share on time, so this made things hard. I had bronchitis, coughing a bit of blood at times. My friend dropped the washing machine and I caught it on my leg, injuring my muscle really badly. No point bitching or complaining about any of that, I did what I could to move us. I still carried everything, even with the bad leg. I admit I caught myself snapping instructions to her a few time. This was loss of frame, I realized it, and I tried to be more observant to keep my cool. We finish the bigger parts of the move. She wants to go the furniture store while I move heavy things, I mentioned that my leg was very hurt, and I wanted her help moving stuff. I didn’t complain, I was assertive about my limitation and directly asked for help, but big mistake, she smelled weakness, the biggest trigger to her explosions. We enjoyed New Years Eve with good champagne. She seemed happy. She always ruins New Years with a tantrum, but she didn't. Was this a new beginning?

The next morning she is angry, announces we need to talk about our relationship. She suffers from insomnia, and stays up all fighting with me in her head, where she makes up evidence that I don’t love her, and therefore, she decides to push me away before I do. She used to explode yelling in the middle of the night, but I stopped that months ago. So instead she used to explode in the morning. It hadn’t happened in months, but here it was, the predicted nuclear shit test. I breathed with my balls, did a quick check, no panic, then checked my posture, to feel stronger, and told her I was happy to listen to her, but we should do it when our son was napping later in the day. Silence treatment until then, and then she comes to the bedroom and undresses in front of me, and we have sex. She was ovulating, but also, she sometimes uses sex for shit tests. Sex was good, but as soon as we are done, she lays down next to me, staring blankly, and announces she doesn’t love and isn’t attracted to me anymore. Not new, she is just pressing buttons, trying to get me to react, trying to see if I’m an oak. She is scared of the changes of the move, insecure, and when she is, she tries to push me away. I decided I win by being an oak. Breath with balls, keep frame. She doesn’t get a reaction from me, so she goes even lower, and tells me that she was fantasizing of other men during sex. I do a reality check: she has gained quite some weight lately, I’ve lost weight and gained muscle. We have had a lot of good sex lately, fun stuff. She likes to test me after sex, she is just going hard this time, I decided. I just tell her I understand she is insecure with all the changes and the big move. I decided this was a comfort test. She uses me as an emotional tampon for about 30 minutes, and I stay as an oak. The rest of the evening is great, she is happy and close to me, with loving body language. She falls asleep on my chest that night. I passed, I thought at the time.

Next morning she has that face again where she didn’t sleep. I’m going to keep frame, I’m not going to crumble. She screams that we need to talk about the relationship. I say we can talk, that we didn’t finish our conversation from last time. I’m cool, I’m in control, I feel confident. I have good posture, and she takes a step back intimidate, and starts banging the kitchen counter, bat shit crazy. I breathe and say calmly but firmly: Don’t bang the counter. It is unacceptable. She stops the behavior, but screams “I’ll do whatever I want, I’m angry angry angry!” Our 2y/o son comes running, he is scared by her. I have to stop this, my frame must protect HIM at all costs. I told her calmly: “I want to talk more to you, but this is upsetting him, so we will talk later.” and pick him up and eat breakfast with him. A few minutes later she comes and screams she wants me out of the house NOW. I don’t even flinch, I keep eating. I was planning to leave to do some stuff in the old apartment anyway, and she knew it. She is pacing around the house like a maniac, I finish breakfast with my son, and tell her I’ll go now for a few hours. I breathe, keep my cool, no panic attack, get dressed, get my tools. I find she has moved a chair into the middle of the hallway and is sitting there, blocking the way. She wants to fight SO bad, and I’m not giving her a fight, she is blocking my way to start one. I laugh inside, she has gone full retard, the crazier she gets, the easiest it is now for me to keep frame. I walk around her and leave.

Doing work in the other place was great for me. At one point my brain wandered off to her tantrum, and my hands started shaking, the panic attack was just under the surface. I noticed it, I breathed and did my frame posture check, and it disappeared! I felt very confident. I can fucking do this!

I went back home, and she was more calmed, but irritated. She starts accusing me of all sorts of nonsense, pressing all the old buttons. Essentially, then underlying message she is saying is that she hates me, without saying so offensively, to see if I react. I keep focused, and only say “I understand you are very angry”, “It sounds like you have a lot of resentment.” etc. Concentrating on frame, I’m an oak. This is Fogging from WISNIFG. All her attacks bounce of me, I don't fall for any of her baits to get me angry. She calms down, and I lead her to the chair so we talk more. She bitches more stuff in a whiny tone, I don’t react at all, just keep fogging, without giving any terrain, nor fighting. Then it finally comes. After the “I hate you” stuff, it is always followed by accusations of me trying to leave her because I’ve been busy with the move and snappy to her. I let her speak. I assume she is just really saying she wants an oak. So I stay calm, I don’t give in, although I did apologized once for the snappy tone during the move. She is calming down more, mentioning the other fears she always does, repeating herself, we are in familiar ground, I know this pattern well, it is over. I didn’t give in an inch, I didn’t become angry, I didn’t panic, I defended my boundaries, I didn’t crumble, I was an oak. I won, there is relief in her eyes.

A few minutes later she notices one piece of furniture is slightly banged in a place that it usually hidden anyway. She explodes again. “You ruin everything! Everything” screaming like a valkyrie. I had to laugh inside. No break for me, but I know I already won this, so I use some agree and amplify “I do ruin everything! I am the ebola of furniture! I am the ISIS of moving”. I wasn’t being sarcastic, I was really having fun with it, this was hilarious to me, really, because this explosion is absolutely ridiculous, and I know I won already. She bitches more and I amplify more and she calms down and says it is all ok, that she just had a bad day.

That night we were both emotionally exhausted, but I made sure not to show it. She fell asleep on my chest again. Next morning she said she was feeling better now, which is her way of apologizing for her tantrum. The next few days she told me she hasn’t slept well yet, and is exhausted emotionally, but she has been well behaved.

I know I have a lot to improve on. Please make concrete suggestions (not only what to do, but WHY to do it, it helps me more that way). But for me, keeping frame instead of having a panic attack was a HUGE breakthrough. In a way, I think this explosion was her way of really testing if I was strong again or not, and I proved to myself and to her I am. I’m sure I can up the alpha a lot, I’m sure many here will say “fuck her silly”, or she is crazy, dump her, I’m sure there are ways to suggest how to cut this shorter. But for me, at the stage I am, at the stage we are in the relationship, my victory was to keep frame, be a rock, unmoved by the storm.

I’ll admit I’m tired from all this, but happy I stayed strong. I can’t let it show because then she will explode again. But fuck, this was my biggest nightmare that would give me panic attacks, and I beat it with frame!


TL;DR: Wife went BPD nuclear again, I kept frame. Beat my panic attacks.


[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR18 points19 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

That was hard to read. I could not maintain frame in that maelstrom, not a chance. Respect. You are a much stronger man than me.

At what point do you nuke these "tests?" "You do not talk to me like that, ever and if you cannot show some self control and respect for your husband I am gone."

[–]cdnz0mbie12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Exactly, there is holding frame and then there is simply being a punching bag. She is begging to be put in her place, but beside that you need to get the fuck out dude. At the same time if you did leave, I fear for your child, such is life for a man.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It is a very hard balance. We have a bad dynamic that because I would have panic attacks, I wouldn't be an oak, which fed her resentment, and then made her explode more because she needed her oak. Each of our own issues contributed to this explosive mixture. All I'm doing is stopping my contribution for now, and see where that takes me.

This time she did share her feelings clearly. Note in my story how I stopped her yelling and she talked nicely after. This is improvement. However, just cutting off communication completely would be my own bad. I haven't been an oak for her for a long time, and she wants me to be one. She needs to communicate her emotions better. We are each trying to improve on this. Clearly we have a long way to go, but we are improving. It might not work out in the end anyway, but I'll work on my own shit regardless.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Along the same lines as what you're saying, and as a response to others saying you need to get out -- it generally takes as long to make a situation good as it took to make it bad. Here on MRP we like to brag about the quick fixes and fast progress we've made, but really it's a slow game. I think you're doing good by hanging in there.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If the psychological assessment I have made of her is correct, the picture of progress is one of a spiral staircase. It feels like you go around and around, but if you look up or down, you do see the progress. Moving up IS slow, and she keeps turning things around, but I'll keep moving up no matter what. If she wants to go along with me, fine, but if not, she stays behind. I don't care either way.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I nuked it like that and she started therapy. She is improving, this was a relapse. I am giving her time to improve and she is improving. This hadn't happened in six months, a new record . Also, I understood how beta i had been and not having boundaries made this worse and enabled it. Im going to do everything on my side to change the dynamics for good accepting that in the end I can't save it. But I will become a rock for my son no matter what.

[–]exbpMarried4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

They are saying that you keeping control of yourself will only get you so far, eventually you will have to get her to behave too. Prepare for that. It sounds like you feel you need to be that steady rock for her right now to improve your value to her, I'll go along with that for a short while. But soon you need to start setting boundaries and demanding she act like an adult and a parent.

Going out on a limb because i don't know the situation: Being pissed at you and throwing tantrums might actually be comforting to her because it's normal. She might do things that being that back, like increase the stress in the house, get pregnant, etc.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am in the process of having more and more boundaries. Before in her tantrums i would give in my boundaries. This was a victory for me because i kept them all without giving in and also kept frame. I know i must enforce more boundaries in the future.

As I explained, it is tricky because I didn't have boundaries nor have been an oak. when I set boundaries, she feels like I'm distant, so I need to balance it all. This time she was begging me to be an oak, she didn't say oak, but that is what she was saying. I kept the boundaries about yelling, she did stop yelling after I asked her, and she apologized for it. I'm sure for the future I need more boundaries as well.

It is true that the tantrum might be a known pattern for her. But usually as part of that, I would crumble, and give in all my boundaries, agree with whatever she said. I didn't this time. Before, I would just walk away many times, and my condition for not doing it was NOT yelling. When she stopped yelling, we did talk. I still have to increase boundaries, and I'm grateful for you pointing it out.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I thank you for your clarity in this post, insisting on boundaries. You have given me much to think about.

Some stuff that wasn't clear from my story is that my son is now 2y/o, and she has changed a lot. If you see my previous posts the problems were all more like normal small shit tests for many months. She is also very good to him, except on these rare instances she has screamed to me in front of him. I started imposing boundaries specifically for that, and they work. This was the first time in more than 6 months that he heard her yelling, only because of my strong enforcement of boundaries. And even then, I stopped it with a few words. This in itself was amazing, because to me it seemed like the previous times I had defended boundaries with actions have worked so well that just reminding her of it put her in place.

Most of those changes she has made were initiated by my boundaries. I hope this was a relapse, but we will see. Either way, you are right, I need to build upon this frame and keep with strong boundaries, and put up a few more. I welcome more advice.

[–]exbpMarried1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well don't lose sight of the fact that this was a victory as you expected much worse. It takes time to change yourself and much more time to impress that on her. It seems like she's a wild one but is responding to your changes so keep it up!

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Also, because TRP is about us changing and growing, I didn't go into details about her emotional issues (childhood trauma, attachment issues, which are some of the pillars that lead to BPD). Just know that I'm talking to a therapist only to be able to understand them, and therapist had predicted this explosion, and we had planned this strategy for myself. The image I have is that of a spiral staircase. It seems like you go around and around, but as you do, you go up. The prediction is to have expect a few more testing explosions in the next few weeks until she gets the strong me.

The good news is that last night she had the beginnings of some of her childish behavior, I kept frame and boundaries, and she snapped again into place immediately, and then was nice, and finally, she was very close to me physically.

If the emotional issues are as I understand them, she is turning into a child, and I'm a Man, and the more I show I'm a man, the more she gets it, and eventually turns into a woman again. The stronger I am, the quicker she "gets" this, and overcomes her traumatic shit. But even if she doesn't do that, I'll make sure to be demonstrate to myself I'm strong before I leave.

I admit I wasn't strong before, and this only amplified her issues. I'm becoming stronger now. This changes things, reactivating her fears, so she is trying to understand that I'm stronger. I'm just owning up to my shit fully. Of course, things might not work in the end, and I might leave, but when I do, I'll know I dealt with my shit, I was strong.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

This passage from The Way of the Superior Man may be comforting.

If you are like most men, you probably aren't too fond of feminine bad moods and hysterical emotions. You may find yourself wondering, why is she so complicated? Whats her problem? You may find yourself saying "just calm down and take it easy." The feminine bad mood is so foreign and dark to you that you may find it somewhat repulsive. And when your woman goes really wild, a part of you is afraid of the damage she might do. Her emotions are so much more wild and less predictable than yours that you would rather not be around them.

Basically most men are afraid of, disgusted by, feminine emotions. That's why you try to fix them or escape from them.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure then she feels his trustability and she can relax.

Edit. Typos

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for this passage. This is exactly what i needed to read today.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure I think her wild moods are still "bothering" you on some level. Its hard. I cant say I am completely indifferent myself but I try

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Logically they don't. But emotionally it is tiring. The more I practice and work the less the emotional cost for me. This event was a big milestone for me because the emotional cost didn't affect my performance, and this was one of the biggest explosions. I feel more confident because i stood up to my biggest nightmare.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Perfect reference. I was thinking if this too. This passage has been one of the keys for me to just let go and not get caught in the madness. It's related to outcome independence.

My wife continues to test how strong I can be. She has bad self confidence and hormone issues. She is completely open that she wants to rely on me to stay strong in the face of her hysteria. She knows she does it, is embarrassed by it, and still can't stop it.

All I've been able to do is embrace the chaos and try to channel it. I don't engage, I don't dismiss, I just rise above and guide with some humor, strength, and wisdom. I'm hoping that I can channel it into to some positive passion for a change. Only time will tell.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure then she feels his trustability and she can relax.

I want to add an update. Last night she was very calmed and talked to me. She said she just felt I was very distant emotionally and needed me to be close to me. Since I was snappy and have been working on myself (very light dread), this had her feeling her I was planning something to abandon her somehow. She understood her behaviour wasn't appropriate and only pushes both of us away. I told her I need this time for myself, and it is helping me feel better overall. I apologized one more time for being snappy during the move, I did lose frame then. This morning she sent a nice email saying that maybe we can try to improve things, hedged saying she was exhausted emotionally. Then she emailed me about buying some furniture.

Maybe she did wanted me to be an oak that loved her through the wildness and is starting to relax.

[–]RBuddDwyerMarried- MRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

She said she just felt I was very distant emotionally and needed me to be close to me.

I get that occasionally from my wife, only she couches it in terms of me not "communicating" with her. The last time she pulled it out I teased her a bit, and decided just to actually share what was really on my mind for the next 30 minutes. We discussed, sex, guns, sex, politics, sex, improvements to the house, sex... She got the point.

I think when she says things like "you are distant" or "you don't communicate with me", what she really wants is to feel more emotional swings. (Actually someone on this sub, I think, gave me that idea.) That is why I have been so interested recently in how to create different emotions in women. I bet if I were better at creating emotional push / pull, I would not get this type of shit.

In your situation, though, I would be very careful. Invoking emotional states in a BPD woman with whom you have a child is like playing with dynamite and VX gas.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I read the posts about emotional states and thought to myself: i think we have plenty of emotions for now. I need master those first.

I didn't detail it in my post but i did share some of my feelings when she asked specific questions and it calmed her down. I kept frame. Before she would explode, i would lose frame and the feelings came like a puke. this time i am proud i kept control and frame, and just communicated calmly. Maybe there is improvement to be done on my specifics, TRP always suggests we talk less. I welcome advice. But just keeping frame was huge for me.

But those posts about emotions did help me a lot understand some dynamics. Something I don't get is how to balance emotion with more comfort.

A way I can interpret it is that I had been very distant emotionally from her for many practical reasons (busy with the move and work). She wanted emotion, so she exploded. I didn't fall for her explosition, but guided her to communicate the emotions in the way that was acceptable for me. And we did communicate the emotions, and she did feel better after, she said.

The only thing that bothers me from this interpretation that before, after explosions like this, we would have very good sex. This hasn't happened yet. I'm not sure if it is because I responded so differently than before, or if she is just still very stunned from all the emotions, or if she really isn't attracted to me.

[–]RBuddDwyerMarried- MRP APPROVED7 points8 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

You are amazing. I only wish I had one tenth the frame and confidence you have. My situation is nothing compared to yours.

Here are my thoughts:

  • You are motivated by the right thing. Your son is paramount.
  • There is a time when providing a safe space for your son that does not include her is more important than a two parent family, even if your time with him is substantially reduced. Think long term, as he gets older he will be able to pick where he wants to spend time, and that is usually about the time most boys naturally gravitate toward their fathers.
  • How much of this can you take? There has to be a point where a man says to himself that his value is lowered by continuing to tolerate her shit. Somewhere in there you still have to live your life.

Edit: More thoughts.

  • Strong frame, confidence, dominance, etc... to moisten up a long-dry pussy and swat down an inane shit test is one thing; but to have to do it 24/7 just to maintain your child's safety, that is a whole different world.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the pat in the back. I admit I'm a bit exhausted right now, and it is nice to hear that.

All the things you said really resonate with what I'm thinking about. The legal repercussions of divorce are complex, I'm not going to bother you with the details, but in the worse case scenario, she would have a lot of power to limit my contact with my son (due to laws, i'm in her country). I understand that, and I have lawyered up to protect myself as much as possible. Lawyer told me to jump through some hoops to improve the outcome slightly, I'm going through that now.

I do have to balance my own well being with my son's. If I burn myself out, I can't be there for him. Yet if I'm far, I can't be there for him either. Every step I think of the best way to optimize this, and I'm sure haven't come up with a good resolution. I spent a lot of time on other subreddits under another account, and I ended up here motivated by the self-improvement vibe. It has helped me a lot to improve my responses to these explosion, but there is still much more to do.

However, from the responses I've gotten, I'm starting to realize that this issue might just have too much crazy even for TRP.

[–]RBuddDwyerMarried- MRP APPROVED4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

she would have a lot of power to limit my contact with my son (due to laws, i'm in her country)

I forgot you mentioned that in another thread sometime before. I also saw where you said she had been doing well for the past six months, and this could be explained by a loss of frame / ovulation confluence of events. My thoughts are the same, but I have a whole new perspective on your situation.

You sir, are a lion tamer who just learned what happens when the lion senses weakness, yet lives to tell the tale. You pulled it out not by luck, but by sheer willpower and strength. My respect for you just tripled. Your experience gives the advice you have shared here much greater weight.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the support. My posts and advice that I have shared here with others come from trying to make sense of the process I'm struggling with. Essentially, from fighting my own weakness and ignorance, and from my mistakes, I write. The posts don't come from strength and knowledge. I'm fine with that, I don't need a big ego, I don't need to be here saying "I'm alpha, my big dong gets many blowjobs". I'm just a guy struggling and trying to be honest about my weaknesses, and working on them. I'm grateful when others here help me in that process of understanding my weaknesses.

Through this whole explosion, my strength came from just accepting my weaknesses. Seriously, instead of fighting the fear, I just embraced it, changed my posture, and it somehow channelled it into a "high" of strength. My problem before was I hid my fear with a mask of anger, and that always meant losing frame. It is very easy to just explode like an asshole and use TRP to feel entitled by it, but ultimately, it is losing frame. It is harder to really be honest and see my fear, and think about my boundaries, and work my plan, and stay strong and present.

Too many times when she exploded, I would just leave. That is a good way to set boundaries, but it is also Flight, which I think was also feeding my panic and her fear of abandonment. There is a time to just demonstrate I can take her emotions, I can listen, I'm not scared, I'm strong. I don't know what is the right balance, or if I pulled it off, but I did decide to stay and face it. I'm freaking exhausted, but I did it.

[–]marxistbacon 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I hid my fear with a mask of anger, and that always meant losing frame. It is very easy to just explode like an asshole and use TRP to feel entitled by it, but ultimately, it is losing frame.

This is pretty deep. I never really thought about that "asshole justified by TRP" aspect but it makes a lot of sense. I've been working through a book called "Assertiveness Workbook"... a lot of similar concepts to WISNIFG but with a different slant. I think what you're describing as you new mode of being is nothing more than assertiveness. (By "nothing more" I don't mean to belittle it, I mean it's a well understood, although seldom reached, ideal of behaviour).

In that book, they describe a typical reactive spectrum from passivness, passive-aggressiveness, through full aggressiveness. In my interpretation, the typical "Beta" lives more at "passive" and occasionally victim pukes into "aggressive" territory before returning to the passive end of the axis again. What you said about using TRP to justify anger is just an excuse to visit the aggressive end of the scale more often. But aggressiveness isn't assertivenes. Passivity and aggression are ultimately BOTH unhealthy and relationship-destroying behaviours. Just bouncing from one end of the spectrum to the other isn't helpful, nor is the middle (passive-aggression).

Only when you go off-axis, leave the page, take an orthogonal turn, do you get to the assertive state. (google assertive triangle images for a drawing) That's where you're not passive, not aggressive, but just keeping your cool, saying what you need and want, and recognizing that ultimately the only thing you can control is yourself, so you may as well be honest about yourself. The strength you speak of is, I think, the strength that is really, deeply, fundamentally you. It's the strength that's been hiding there all along, the oak that for the last years hasn't been nurtured or allowed to see the sunlight, and wasn't helped into an straight and tall path during it's early years.

I realize this is more self-psychology than MRP sexual strategy, but when I read that comment it started to make me think. Little bits and pieces of truth click into place every day. Thanks for that one.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

For me Assertiveness is one of the pillars of Frame, so it is part of TRP. Assertiveness is just honesty to yourself and using that to get strength to be honest to others in a way they get it.

Not being assertive was a big weakness I had, and I'm still working hard on getting better. I have thought a lot about the subject only because I sucked so much at it that I really had to work hard on the basics. One thing I learned in this process is to communicate assertively everything: your words, your actions, your emotions, your body language, face, posture, all that has to give the same exact message. If something isn't aligned, the other person can tell that something is wrong, and your message comes out weak and incoherent.

For me this meant that really understanding the underlying emotion and accepting it is crucial to be assertive. When I masked fear using anger, I was just aggressive. And let's be frank, acting this aggression towards a woman is fucking pathetic, it isn't alpha, is just bullying. People confuse this aggression with the sexual power that wives want, but they aren't the same, because this aggression doesn't come from the balls, but as pathetic way to cover up our fears. However, if we just accept the real feeling we have, fear, we can examine it, and see we can use it to be assertive. Fear is very powerful physically, it fires up all sorts of hormones, making us superhuman for a little bit. I can't explain it, but every time I just realize the real feeling underneath, I can make everything coherent, and I feel a little high, with a bit of more clarity, like I can see what is really important and ignore the rest. It is a bit like seeing the matrix. And from this, I can be assertive.

I didn't know about the assertive triangle, but it does make sense to me. This is a visual representation of what I have been working on. Also your explanation of beta in terms of assertiveness is very insightful.

Can you comment more on this book? Your analysis has made me interested in it. I found the first chapters of WISNIFG incredibly powerful in terms of tactics. How different is this book? Is there a lot of overlap between them? Does it cover other things?

[–]marxistbacon 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm inspired by your description of "I can't explain it, but every time I just realize the real feeling underneath, I can make everything coherent, and I feel a little high". It sounds almost mystical, like achieving satori. It's inspiring to know that there is more to all of this at the end of the road than just tactics and behaviour modification... there's some very powerful self knowledge.

Your statement about congruence of all factors - words, actions, posture, gives me a lot to think about too. I spent a lot of years passively accepting crap from the ex on one hand but on the other, screaming with rage inside, and I'm sure this showed up in my body language, tone, and so on. It all fits.

Re the book: It's been a while since I read WISNIFG but from what I remember it spent a lot of time on the mechanics of guilt and manipulation, then presented this thing called "assertiveness" as the solution to it, and then described various tactical solutions (like fogging) to achieving the strategic end of assertiveness. This other book comes at assertiveness from the view point of describing the passive-to-aggressive continuum, and showing why neither end nor the middle of that scale works, then showing that assertiveness is the alternative. Some exercises and analysis. I guess I'd say that WISNIFG describes guilt-based reasons for staying on the P-A axis but doesn't really analyze the triangle as it's own thing. It certainly wasn't as much of a mind-blower as NMMNG or WISNIFG but it filled in a few things and tied some more concepts together. Some self analysis is encouraged, and there are some workbook-style questions to make you think how it applies to you.

I'm pretty analytical and like to read, so for the cost of a couple pints of craft beer I indulged in the kindle version. It is probably equivalent to a lot of other books with similar titles, but this was good perspective, and good information for me, for the stage of the journey I'm at now, so I'm happy I got it. OTOH, it might all be old hat for you, oh enlightened one!

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

So, WISNIFG is tactics, while that book is strategy? Strategy is the plan, tactics is just the tools at hand that can be used. I didn't like about WISNIFG that it was too fragmented. The tactics are powerful, but I need strategy to make sense of things, to make the tactics flow out of the big central vision.

I"ll get the kindle preview and see if I like it.

I'm not enlightened or anything, I'm behind everyone else in this subreddit in terms of lack of boundaries, weaknesses, control in the marriage, all that. However, since I had no fundamentals, I'm determined to do the work to have very strong fundamentals. I'm trying to make the best out of the reality that I just have very far to go. And as I understand the basics, I write how I think of them.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

satori

I had to look up that, I didn't know what it meant. I think it is related. I'm not religious or spiritual, but I'm learning mindfulness tricks that help me a lot with my frame, and all those come from buddhism in one way or another. So it makes sense these are related somehow. Maybe I need to read some stuff about that as well.

Saying I feel a bit high is a difficult way to explain it, it just feels good to pick up something that was hurting your frame, looking at it, and then saying "this is it?", and that relief makes you feel good. Also, the fear gives you adrenaline, which is fight or flight, and that does increase your awareness. The problem is when we don't really understand the feeling because it is confusing from the environment, and we don't know what does "fight" and "flight" mean in the context. Like, it is a bit confusing to be afraid of words your wifes tells you. She isn't a bear, and words aren't teeth. Is fighting saying words back? that is just weird physically. Is flight running away from the words? That is also a bit weird physically, because words don't hurt your body. So because of this, the brain gets confused, and the fear, instead of improving your response, weakens you. But if you identify the fear, and what you are afraid of, you can alight all that confusion, you can really get the boost that fear is supposed to give you. It is hard to explain, I haven't really organized my thoughts about it enough to discuss it, and I'm not even sure it belongs here. I'm probably just puking stuff I read around or making it up, but it is the best way I understand this "satori", if it really is what that was.

[–]marxistbacon 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thanks for breaking it down. Your analysis makes really good sense. I think I get what you mean, and I have experienced similar things, but I hadn't really thought about them to that extent. Initially I feel elated about the positive result of an action I took that I would have never taken before (actions like holding my ground, assertively saying that X and Y bother me, or whatever). Or else feeling amazed after the fact that I was able to detach myself from a situation, look at it as just an exchange of words but not let myself get sucked into the emotional maelstrom directly. But when these little gloating moments occur (I know... vain to gloat, but it does feel really damn good), I realize that all of this good stuff, decent outcomes, surprising wins, have just come from changing my own view. And then I realize how badly messed up my older view had been. Sometime this takes the form that my older view had been fear. It's related to what you're saying, but I have more of these moments after the fact, and still screw up a lot in real-time.

I'm not religious or spiritual either. But from what little I know of Buddhism, there's a focus on changing yourself to understand the true nature of the world, and not holding onto false thoughts like worry, anger, and holding grudges - all the stuff I think of as the childhood programming of a dysfunctional household. But without adding in superstitious stuff. It sound like it's right up the TRP alley.

And even though calling you enlightened is a little tongue-in-cheek, your posts have an unusual degree of thoughtfulness, and a very lucid and analytic way of presenting those thoughts. You definitely have something big going on.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm still in the process of learning about myself, and then understanding how messed up my older view was. Every time I think I'm done with that, I fuck up somehow, and I go back to the self examination, and discover yet another messed up way I had to see the world. I'm starting to just accept this process never ends. I don't know if it ever does, but maybe that perspective is better for me. Essentially, well, since I have so much shit, I might as well become an expert on shit as a way to get rid of it quickly and prevent more shit from coming in. I know that TRP is about Self-Improvement for sexual strategic gains. I'm focusing more on the part about "self" of all that for now. Sometimes I feel my posts don't really belong here because of that, but I don't see where else to talk this stuff, so I just tell myself that TRP is about Frame, and Frame is about Self, so indirectly, this belongs here.

I know my wife has all sorts of issues. Since here I wrote about one even, it doesn't give a full perspective of the situation. But there is a lot of stuff that makes me very happy in the relationship. Also, although I'm trying to own up to my shit, because in this even only she was the crazy one, it hides the other times I had my beta pukes, my unassertive covert contracts, all that. And I've come to understand that all my shit resonated with her issues, making her issues worse, which in turn, made mine worse. Like feedback in speakers. Ouch.

There are 3 things that can stop this destructive feedback loop. 1) Demand she changes her issues. That I can't do, I have zero power over that. 2) Break the relationship, as it decouples many of our issues. That I might have to do at some point. 3) Fix my issues. This is what I'm focusing on because no matter what, I have to do this anyway. I'm not sure how far it will take me, but even though it isn't clear in the story, I have been working hard on my issues, and it is changing the relationship, and surprisingly, that has somehow helped her to work on her issues, and things had been really good for us.

Happily, I can update you that last night, after a minor tantrum she had that I stopped cold with frame, she became her old self, happy and loving even. I feel relief, less emotionally tired, and even a bit victorious.

[–]marxistbacon 5 points5 points [recovered] | Copy Link

A man sits in a prison cell, watching the rats come in and out. He loathes these rats, his constant companions, his scourge. He usually bats at them and twitches away when they nibble at his feet in the night. But not tonight. There is something different about the man now. Tonight he sets his mind to steel and resolves not to flinch, not to give the rats any sense of victory, to show no fear. As they nibble the flesh of his foot he laughs at their feeble attempt to feast on him. By sheer force of will he watches with scientific detachment as they skeletonize first his right foot, then his left, and begin working their way up his calves. He feels awe at his resilience. But now sated, they fall on the floor in exhaustion and scurry back the their nests to sleep off the meal. He knows he has won. He knows the stumps will heal.

  I have really mixed feelings on reading your post. In the big picture, it scares the shit out of me what you're putting up with, though I know you've explained why you do it. Despite TRP, part of me reads this and says you're just a fucking masochist. (That's not a personal attack, just an emotional response to hearing your story). But I know it also takes insane amounts of internal reserve to pull off what you did. Congratulations on having the strength to face this. It's also compelling to me that you mention the Sopranos because at the time that aired I was having the same attacks too, and that brings back a memory for me as well. But eventually through working on myself and working through all the anxiety and inner tension, they eased up and disappeared. No matter what happens, if you know you can count on yourself, you're in pretty damn good shape.   I really hope your story doesn't end in gangrene, but rather in some kind of healing and truce. Best of luck.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 5 points6 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

I will go as far as I can to protect my son. Each step I evaluate what is better for him short and long term.

I will admit i am a bit stunned by the reaction from TRP. I was expecting more Be Alpha, All women are the same and less run away she is too crazy. I must be so used to this shit i don't have a sense of what is the craziest thing in my story that worries everyone.

[–]TA_2985_A6E1_9FC3 7 points7 points [recovered] | Copy Link

What she seems to present is not Shit Tests but full on Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). This is not fixable by "maintaining frame" and other redpill techniques. This is only fixable by YOU exercising the nuclear option and getting your son out of her influence.

See: http://shrink4men.com

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 2 points3 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

I have read a lot about BPD. She is in some sort of therapy now but she won't say for what. I spent a lot of time reading books about BPD and in forums about that and framkly got tired because it was all pointing fingers and nothing on how I can improve things. Even if things don't work out i am determined to try to improve myself and have frame.

BPDs in therapy do get better and she is learning new ways to express her emotions. She has improved a lot, even if my story doesn't reflect it because it is a highlight of her relapse. However the other person must be very strong emotionally, like a rock. I discovered TRP and started reading about Frame and it has helped me a lot.

[–]RBuddDwyerMarried- MRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

> BPDs in therapy do get better

Yes, after years of intensive therapy that happens after she herself decides she really needs help.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have not detailed everything because it was too long. She has had years of therapy, she says there is no diagnosis. With BPD patients this happens often, than the therapists won't officially diagnose them because they fear the patient will then rage quit, and that is a worse outcome.

I interpret things now that the pregnancy made her relapse, and she eventually went back to therapy, and things got very good. But as I noted, there were many triggers that combined, so I'm not surprised she relapsed again. If that is so, the best option for me is to keep frame. She has calmed down quite a lot already, and we have talked things better last night. I'm not saying this can be saved, but I am saying I must keep frame no matter what. If this will work, the way will include me keeping frame, and if it doesn't, the best for me and my son is also frame.

[–]Chimpsteel1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think you are protecting your son by allowing him to be around her. It has to be fucking him up.

On the other hand, I guess she'd get at least joint custody in a divorce.

[–]crayonsred1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also mixed feelings.

Much respect for being a rock in troubled seas.

But there's too much crazy here.

[–]nopbeentheredonethatMarried2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I have read somewhere that our emotion is like a zoo.

I think she need... no crave to see the lion. She need to feel your passion to realize to you do care about her.

Anyway you must have balls of steel to be able to handle such woman. Think long and hard if this is worth it to you.

PS: (have you tried holding her in your arm while she is exploding like that?)

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I liked that post a lot. She has seen the lion. But this time she was crying for support and an oak. It was my own fault I wasn't an oak for a long time because of my own panic attacks.

I have tried holding her while she explodes, with different levels of success. In the story above she did hold me back in some instances (in bed the first day, the second day at the table when we talked).

I'm not sure if I have balls of steel. I do know I didn't have balls at all for a long time, so I'm working on that.

[–]wombatinaburrowBLUE PILL TROLL2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Is the health centre nurse who cared for her and your son still involved with you all? PND can continue up to 36 months post partum, as the hormonal changes caused by pregnancy even out. If the home situation is as abusive as you describe, you will need professional help in supporting your son and getting him out.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

The nurse isn't involved anymore, her time expired after 3 months.

My son recovered quickly as soon as we switched to bottle, and my wife was a good mother finally 6 weeks after the birth. She was good to him from then on, except she would have these rages towards me in front of him. I didn't want her to rage in front of him, and I gave up all my boundaries trying to stop her, which only made it worse. This is how things ended up badly for me. Yes, she was abusive, but frankly, I let her do it. She needed me to stand up to her, to be a rock, to give her constancy and boundaries. I didn't understand my role on all this until 6 months ago, and i blamed her, instead of understanding my role in all this.

She went to therapy and did improve a lot in expressing her emotions in a better way. The story above was a relapse. However, I do feel I changed, and by having frame, she did calm down and stop yelling. Yes, she had emotional diarrhea for an hour, but I understand it all as resentment for all that time I wasn't an oak to her. After we talked some more, I realize that yes, in this time, I really needed to be an oak. I do know that I keep working boundaries. For everyone, it causes a change in the relationship, and stress. I accept that. But with that, it means I must balance it with comfort.

The story above is only that I succeeded being an oak during my worst nightmare. If from this she internalizes more that I overcame my own crap, and I'm more available, this was a huge success. If she doesn't, well, the relationship will end, and I'm just proud I overcome my shit for myself and my son.

With regards to getting him out, legally is hard, and the only way to control the worse case scenario is for me to jump through hoops (which include me sticking around much longer and documenting stuff). I'm doing all that as well, my lawyer is very helpful. The thing is that these rages legally seem just like AWALT, and the standard to prove she is unfit is very high (documented physical violence or neglect, the PND doesn't really count towards this by itself).

[–]wombatinaburrowBLUE PILL TROLL0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

3 months? Has there been any sort of ongoing support for you in all of this? PND can have catastrophic outcomes if support people aren't helped in their support of the affected parent.

The fact that she appears to be merger hungry leads me to suggest that you would both benefit from some sort of CBT.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have done therapy for the panic attacks that started after that experience. It has helped me. Reading about CBT, it seems like we did use some CBT tactics there.

I am not sure what kind of therapy she has been in. She knows enough that just suggesting CBT upfront to her is calling her crazy which will backfire. I decided that her therapist would know better and she is more likely to listen to her. Wife almost rage quit therapy a couple of times, so i know the therapy is challenging her. Even just getting her into therapy was a nightmare.

I googled "merger hungry" and your assessment is on the right track. You seem to know about this stuff, your psychological assessment is spot on, although I didn't disclose all the details.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I stopped reading after you said the child got weak. That's calling the police time, right there.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The story is very long, and I omitted a lot of background details because it was too long and I couldn't tell 2 years worth of stuff in one post. I wanted to focus on the latest event 2 years after that background.

But since you asked: When she wasn't feeding my son, I did call the authorities. In this country they sent a nurse to check on us daily, and I talked to her about it extensively. During these visits my Wife would just compose herself when the nurse came, and made it seem as if things were much better than it was. So the nurse had to decide which one of us was the crazy one lying. Officially, my wife had terrible postpartum depression, that is all. The nurse helped us through so I could start feeding him from bottle, but this process is tricky, and requires several evaluations for the nurse to really understand that I'm not making shit up.

I also called mental health information and learned the law won't allow me to put her there against her will, she can just walk right out, no matter how crazy. If I had done that, I'm sure my wife would have retaliated isolating me more from my son, which in turn would have compromised his health even more. All I could do was convince the nurse to change to bottle feeding, and finally the nurse did a "program" to convince my wife to let me bottle feed the baby. I stand by what I did.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Life is too short to give to batshit crazy women. I would leave.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I might leave, it is certainly an option. However, first I need to change myself to have frame, boundaries, and see the effects it has on the relationship. It seemed to be helping a lot, but maybe not enough. We will see in a few weeks how things are.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I know this stuff is hard to see from close up, but what you've described isn't going to be fixed in a few weeks. Not saying you shouldn't try, just saying... it's pretty obviously way more work than that. And it's gonna be hard to keep frame when you're being abused all the time. But the very best of luck to you.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are totally right.

Right now we are in this mode where she tests to see if I'm an oak, and when I am, she is calm and loving for some time. Every time the good times last longer and longer. This last stretch was 6 months. And this was the biggest test she has done in a really long time. What I'm saying is that in a few weeks I'll understand better if she internalized that I passed it or not, just this one round. Each round I pass the peace lasts longer and longer, and the better behaved she is. If so, then I hope we have more than 6 months of peace this time.

This is a long game as you say. I was contributing to the problem because of lack of boundaries. I'm working on that incrementally, and I'm making improvements. I understand things seem really bad because I have a long way to go. It is just because when she went nuts and I crumbled I lost ALL boundaries, so many it is hard for you to imagine. But right now, I have so many more, and I'm keeping them. She senses they aren't coming down ever again, and she pushes back, but I'll keep going. This of course creates tension, but I accept it.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

After writing about this, I'm wondering if the whole fight was really only because she was ovulating and wanted me to fuck her hard, but since my leg is so fucked up, I couldn't move as much and she rode on top of me. When she is ovulating she likes a good pounding, and maybe that is all this was about: some of insecurity from seeing my weakness?

[–]Dev_onLTR5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, take a step back. why are you there? I get you have a child, but I don't see how you can rationalize this being a healthy situation for him.

Honestly, I see you are making the best of a worst situation, but I cannot think of any possible scenario of you cutting ties that ends up worse than it is now.

This isn't some kind of mood swing, this woman is certafiably crazy. Unless you're willing to get her some help in a facility, theres no way you are going to win this one

good job though on the panic attacks, you look like you've been getting much better at dealing with them

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

She is in therapy. Her explosions are less frequent. I wasn't keeping frame and that made them worse. I will try to keep lowering more, I know I contributed to the bad dynamics. I'm changing them. This creates instability. I will see if i can improve things more on my side, and give time for change to settle.

If i leave, i will see my son very little. I don't want to leave her on charge of him. Yet the courts will take her side. If I could have custody I would probably have given up.

Sex is great usually. She is fun most of the time. She has improved a lot. I see this explosion as a relapse.

[–]Dev_onLTR0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

have you even looked into it? I'm sure theres enough of these outbursts that a cell phone video wouldn't be too hard.

I'm just looking at best case scenario. Also, lots of women give good sex, so I wouldn't think of it as a reason to stick around FYI

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I have lawyered up. I have some recordings. Lawyer says they might help a bit but I need a lot of them to sway an expert over custody.

[–]NotABibleScholarMarried3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Not that there has been a lot of lawyer up advice here, but I often wonder those that give this advice if they've ever been divorced. Ive been divorced with custody. Its not easy, divorce with kids can suck as bad as staying married to crazy. Its really hard in the US to stop the other parent from any visitation even if they are crazy, best case you get mediated visitation. The kids will manipulate things, and almost always sympathize with the underdog parent. If the other parent has visitation, you will not be able to fully keep her garbage out of your life and home, even if it is just from her influence on your kids. It is in someways like you are still married and you can't fully just move on with your life.

[–]marxistbacon 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

It is in someways like you are still married and you can't fully just move on with your life.

This hits the nail on the head. I can vouch for this. A timely comment actually - even though it's years after the split, still spent half the afternoon today on a grueling phone call with the ex, practicing my fogging technique, practicing my "if you can't stop screaming I'm going to hang up and we'll talk about this later" frame. Certainly easier now than it used to be but no picnic either. As much as the urge to just laugh in her face and nuke everything may be, it's like you're being held hostage by the fact that you can't do wrong by the kids. You still have to have to let just enough of the crazy in to keep the rest of it out.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 1 point2 points [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

Shit.

[–]NotABibleScholarMarried0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not to derail, but your comment takes me back. It took me too long to get that kind of crap with my ex under control. I still have a tenedency to avoid contact, even when I shouldn't and even though it is far better know. I had to nuke a lot of that, throw what some would call "fairness" out the window, and set firm boundries... You can't pick the kids up on time, you can pick them up the next day early, you can't do that, you'll see them next time. She would completely try to hold my life hostage with her irresponsibility. Unfortunately it took a lot of fitness tests from my wife to get me there, wish I did it myself.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This sounds terrible too. I didn't think of that angle.

[–]TRP_Throwaway12341 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This might be an unpopular opinion but I somehow feel like you're faking it. My gut is telling me you're really blue pill but acting red pill. That when she actually pulls the pin on the marriage grenade, you'll cave right in so as not to lose her.

I mean, I'm glad you weathered through all that craziness and you're making attempts to better yourself FOR your wife, but you have to first do this for yourself.

Maybe the adage "Fake it till you make it" works but I truly believe in the principles shared and taught here and never once questioned why. I think you need to do the same and do some serious introspection.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have done a lot of work to understand my limitations. I'm sure there is a lot more to do. I might still be very weak, but I know what many of my weaknesses are, and will work on them, while I search for more.

You are assuming that I don't have outcome independence. This isn't true, but I see why you would assume that from my story. My story was very long, and I cut out a lot of parts because of it. I'm very clear I can only work on myself and my frame, and things will play themselves out, and that breaking up is a very clear possibility. She has pulled the pin already several times before. The first few times I did cave in, that was half a year ago, before I did a lot of work on myself. The last few times I haven't caved in at all. My intended outcome is NOT saving the marriage. I have lawyered up, and understand how much I'll get fucked, especially with visa and time with my child. This requires me jumping through some hoops, including documenting things, and much more I won't get into. I'm doing what I can for that possibility because it is very real. If your definition of Red vs Blue is if I'm fighting to save our marriage, well, the answer is NO. I'm fighting to be a rock for my son.

My outcome is becoming stronger and keeping frame for my own's sake and my son's, with all the costs that might imply for me and the relationship. I have worked extensively in this kind of introspection, and wrote a post about it.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do wish I could medicate her...

[–]linenoize-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This makes a lot of sense. The tricks I did to control the panic attack make more sense now. Essentially, I embraced the fear, instead of fighting it, or masking it with anger, and this gave me a slight high and clarity.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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