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5

I am about three months in: read course prereqs, much of sidebar. Whew. The more I learn, the less I know. Anyway, wife and daughters came back from a two day trip I arranged and paid for months ago. Upon arriving back home, she is very cool towards me. No idea why, but I don't ask. Before RP, I would have. Now IDGAF. That night, I wake her up from a sound sleep and initiate sex, but she is all tense and just laying there and not giving me anything back so I stop and pull out. Her: "Whats wrong?" Me: "This isn't working for me. You're all tense and just laying there" very non chalant. I role over and go to sleep as it is late. First time I have EVER done this. Wasn't sure if I had the nerve, to be perfectly honest. But I am glad I did. The next day, I aome home from work and she was tentative around me. After dinner she says, "I need to talk to you later." Me: "Lets talk now. Put on something loose and feminine and meet me on the front porch." (She is still in her SAHM work clothes. I walk out to the porch. Ten minutes later, she re appears in a loose and feminine sundress. So far so good) I tell her "Okay , you've got 15 minutes. Shoot." She raises an eyebrow at that, but makes no comment. To summarize, the discussion was under 15 minutes. She leveled several emotional accusations against me (I am being demeaning, arrogant, any other woman would walk away, etc). I remained calm, held frame, and ended with amused mastery and humor. She also raised some concerns about how I am rougher in bed lately, and how it is making her "bleed" down there. That was pure bullshit, and I exposed it as such with ease. The last time I banged her was Sunday and she gave every sign of enjoyment, and I found no stains on the bed linen. I told her "Its nothing I have't done before, but its been a while so you'll get used to it." Subject was dropped forthwith. Before she could think of anything else, I asked her if she was wearing any underwear. She said yes. I mock critisized her for raising such an important topic with me while wearing underwear, and how disrespectful that was. She laughed. Then I grabbed her hand and said "Its a nice evening. Lets take a drive in the country." Her: " I'm not wearing any shoes." Me" "So?" I stick my head in the front door and tell my oldest we are taking off for a while. Off we go in my car for a scenic drive in the country. (Sidenote: I have been doing this with her all summer; taking her for little spontaneous jaunts. I go a little farther from home each time and she has not shoes, purse, or cellphone. All she has is the dress on her back. I found I enjoyed this because it is helping to break down her inhibitions. For the duration of the trip, she is vulnerable and totally in my power. At first she was very reluctant and scared. Now she comes with me with nary a word.) I'm pleased and amazed with my progress so far, yet conscious that I have a long way to go. I am grateful for this site and for a select few other sites. I have not had a fight with wife now for three months, and my wife and children are more and more responding to my vibe and following my lead. I'm working out (lifting & short intense cardio), feeling great. Upgraded wardrobe, spoke to wife about finances, told her if she goes back to work for a year, we will be able to finally pay off some old debts and move towards some long term financial goals. She agreed, and is going to start next week at a job I found for her. She is not thrilled about it, but she is doing it. ( Watch what they do, not what they say" Indeed!) I am never going back to the shrill BP beta bitch I turned into. Lessons learned? don't get complacent, hold frame at all costs, avoid deep or lengthy conversations, and forge ahead with OI. Never look back.


[–]slater2j0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice work.

I have also found the turning down disinterested sex to be a huge boon. I even lost erection and she noticed. "you're just not doing it for me" and go to sleep. Next day She's all over me like we're dating again... Sexy outfits, flirtatious, was great.

[–]GameboyPATH-1 points0 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

She leveled several emotional accusations against me (I am being demeaning, arrogant, any other woman would walk away, etc). I remained calm, held frame, and ended with amused mastery and humor. She also raised some concerns about how I am rougher in bed lately, and how it is making her "bleed" down there. That was pure bullshit, and I exposed it as such with ease.

I have not had a fight with wife now for three months

I don't know any more about the situation than you do, but that doesn't exactly sound good. She has clear problems with you, and you're dismissing every one of them. She may be bottling up these tensions with your behavior, which will definitely bite you in the ass later on.

You've created a wife that you can cause conflict with, but she does not wish to talk about them with you. If this was your end goal, then congrats.

Lessons learned? don't get complacent, hold frame at all costs, avoid deep or lengthy conversations

No deep or lengthy conversations? Holy shit, I strongly advise you to reconsider.

Spoke to wife about finances, told her if she goes back to work for a year, we will be able to finally pay off some old debts and move towards some long term financial goals. She agreed, and is going to start next week at a job I found for her.

I'm glad to hear this. Hope you're both able to meet your financial goals without too much added stress on the family.

[–]Flathatter45-1 points0 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Son, I think you got off at the wrong stop. This is redpill, not Doctor Phil. "I've created a wife.."? Sheesh!

[–]SatisfiedMan1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Damn straight. Keep it up bro.

The taking her out to country where she's totally vulnerable is... Amazing. Like, one of the best things I've ever read on this sub reddit. Definitely going to experiment with this idea

[–]Flathatter45 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thanks. Let me know how it goes. I started small. First time a few months ago I just went a few miles to the McDonalds drive through for coffee. She was nervous as hell. Couple weeks ago we spent half the day driving around, must have been a good 30 miles from home, out in the middle of nowhere. . She asked me to stop at a roadside fruit stand, and she got out went shopping for peaches and melons barefoot totally unselfconscious. Getting her alone, away from internet, kids, no purse to guard does wonders for her disposition. More importantly, its a big turn on for me.

[–]GameboyPATH1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

If it bothers you, I can rephrase: your actions have caused your wife some resentment that it seems that she cannot express to you. Your attitude toward lengthy or meaningful conversation appears to support this. You seem to treat this a positive goal.

I understand that I can be viewed as an outsider here, but we both want you and your family to be doing well. I'm just hoping that you can see where there may be issues that you're not considering.

[–]Flathatter450 points1 point  (20 children) | Copy Link

Would you believe me if I said I have been down that road many times in 20 years? That"lengthy and meaningful conversation" has never resolved anything? that it has often made things worse? That the 3 months since I started following rp has been the most peaceable and stress free period of my married life? That my wife, while still stressed and anxious, is less so than before? Would you believe any of that?

[–]RocketManV0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

I do.

[–]throwaway-aa21 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I don't know what that guy is talking about. Avoid long conversations because most of the time women are just using logic to convey their emotions. Give them what they emotionally needed (dopamine, dominance) and all of that stuff will melt away.

[–]RocketManV1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As well, lead with action and not word.

[–]GameboyPATH1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Avoid long conversations because most of the time women are just using logic to convey their emotions.

Are we really doing the "women are emotional, but men are logical" argument? This isn't the 1920's. What's with this assumption that a woman who is using logic is just doing so for emotional reasons? And even if they are, why does this take a different approach than when a man does it? This just sounds like speculation that's assumed as the truth.

[–]throwaway-aa20 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

What's with this assumption that a woman who is using logic is just doing so for emotional reasons?

You know what's funny.... Here's the thing.

I've sat on Reddit for as long as I can remember, and debated any and everyone. You can check my history if you want. You'll in general find instances of me being silly, but mostly you'll also see me debating people, giving references, or anecdotes, or just trying to explain something logically. You'll find that 99% of the people I argued either resorted to flaming and ad-hominems, or deleted their account, or just stopped replying all together.

https://youtu.be/S16EHfKRLfc?t=34s

Here's the thing: I'm not going to argue this with you. There's nothing I could say that would change your mind already based on your comments. What's the point? Here's the thing: I could explain it to you, but you're not looking for an explanation, you're already coming from an emotional mindset. Ask yourself if you really want an answer, or you are just looking to disagree with me. Ask yourself if you yourself are coming from an emotional perspective, or you're trying to resolve something on a rational level.

[–]GameboyPATH1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

You'll find that 99% of the people I argued either resorted to flaming and ad-hominems, or deleted their account, or just stopped replying all together.

Supposing that they did, this doesn't logically prove that you're correct. But I understand that the point you're making is that it's pointless for us to argue.

I suppose my goal was to, well, improve the quality of people's relationships (and, extending from that, general well-being) by advocating for what I'd consider reasonable long-term advice for couples, thus persuading people to adopt positive long-term relationship behaviors. I'm hoping to discuss RP values with RP members to highlight the good values and critique the negative ones. I suppose that's my motivation in a nutshell.

I could explain it to you, but you're not looking for an explanation, you're already coming from an emotional mindset.

I don't know where you're coming from with this emotional angle. I'm somewhat passionate about the subject, but to assume that my arguments are debunked because my emotions compliment my words doesn't make sense at all.

Good ideas and theories hold up to scrutiny and criticism. That's why I'm just here asking questions. That said, if you believe that I would be closed-minded and deny any validity to your explanations, I completely understand, no judgment here.

[–]throwaway-aa21 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

well ok I'll bite. I'll start on a more general level and then I'll wait for a response to refine.

The "women are emotional, males are logical" is based on science and anecdotes. I'll preface the anecdote by saying one of my favorite points to say: people have been meditating since 500 B.C. Now the thing is, people knew the benefits of meditation back in the day not because science empirically proved it's benefits, but people learned because other people told them to learn, they heard from word of mouth, etc. Only in recent history did scientists actually scan a brain of a person who meditated and found that their brain waves were significantly different from a person who didn't. So why do I explain all of that? Science is important but anecdotal information is highly, highly important... it forms the base for a lot of areas of knowledge that science lags behind in. Furthermore anecdotes push science forward by building the hypothesis to test.

So why am I saying this? If I get 100 high quality men in the room (again high quality is really hard to come by in terms of what this subreddit qualifies as high quality) and between all of their life experience conclude that women are emotional... that means something, especially since a lot of us would prefer it weren't that way. I could give you anecdotal experience after anecdotal experience with girlfriends, mothers, sisters, etc but it's pointless, unless you want to hear them all. It's also relevant because... let's say you don't have the skill to go to a club / bar and really pick up women... is your opinion THAT valid? What I mean is... the type of people who do well with women, this is what they generally conclude.

So that's the first point. Anecdotal evidence is important (the PUA community as a whole was bred from it), and all of the techniques (and most of the success stories) are designed behind the idea that women are emotional creatures. The sub point is that... there is not necessarily anything wrong with this...which is the whole feminist movement of women trying to be like men. We as genders are meant to compliment one another, not women try to have dicks, and one of the downfalls of feminism was portraying things females have always been good at as pitfalls, and trying to match men in things they are more naturally good at.

So the science of it... so there are a series of documentaries

/r/TheRedPill/comments/1vuho8/the_documentary_that_made_scandinavians_cut_all/

That... really will solidify things for you. There's not a single person I've ever talked to that's been able to rebuttal it. Most people in my online debates / conversations usually give up at that point.

Just watch the first one:

https :// vimeo . com/19707588

And watch and pay attention to the ENTIRE THING, and pay attention when it gets to Anne Campbell who literally bodybags the entire thing.

And the thing is this: a lot of people have known forever what is portrayed in the video. But this just puts studies, science and common sense to it. But again the bigger discussion, is why someone needs this solidified for them. It wasn't until RedPill and PUA came along did women finally admit Alpha Fux / Beta Bucks. It wasn't until PUA came along that people understood that nice guys do indeed finish last and assholes get the girl (and that has been streamlined to state that you don't need to be an asshole but most of the time you should prefer being an asshole over being nice).

Because at the end of the day, who are we to trust? Let's say we had no scientific proof, no videos (that video by itself should speak volumes), and some of the stuff Anne Campbell says is almost apart of pop culture but it's just assumed it's societal conditional by a couple of SJW's.... What is the hardest thing to obtain from a woman, besides marriage? Probably sex. Someone who can claim one of the most hardest things to extract from a woman across the board... probably has a little bit of insight into the way a woman's mind works and how to engage her. So when people talk about gender dynamics... are they REALLY talking from a place of mastery?

The other thing in the video that is relevant: they compared "healthy boys to healthy girls". Again, what is up for debate is who is speaking or evaluating the subject, and are they healthy? Women who are ugly (which is a woman's main asset): are they really equipped to say anything about women? Is a man who has a lack of testosterone or an inability to secure desirable women... is he really any sort of authority of speaking on the subject, or deciding for himself on the matter of the subject?

I'll leave it there. The main thing you should do is watch that video. The rest of the points are relevant but this is a good staring point.

Edit: Anne Campbell is so fucking smart man... I get goosebumps at the end of her segment because it's like... it only makes complete fucking sense, how the fuck can you rationalize any other way?

[–]Flathatter45-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There are truths that are so self-evident, they don't need proofs. The difference between men and women.. if you don't recognize those, its like trying to teach Geometry to someone who has no clue about the pythagorean theorem.

[–]GameboyPATH1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pardon my argumentative nature for a moment...

It's entirely possible for a statement can be fundamentally true, regardless of the quality of the argument made. That said, your argument supporting throwaway-aa2's statement amounts to "no explanation is needed; it's just true." Problem is, I could use this reasoning to support any sort of falsehood. It wouldn't persuade anyone, and it doesn't logically hold up.

To counter your reasoning, if this truth is so self-evident that reasoning is not required, then even those who cannot reason would accept it as true, right? Supposedly, it's a truth that's beyond evidence or proof. If so, then why is this fundamental difference between the sexes (specifically, "men are logical, women are emotional") not understood or acknowledged as true by people like myself? Thus, this statement about the difference between sexes is neither a self-evident truth nor beyond the realm of logical reasoning.

[–]GameboyPATH0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I can't really tell you what's true and false in your relationship, since you know more about your circumstances than a random stranger on the internet. I'd say that if talking things out with your wife over 20 years never resolved a single thing, then you two really suck at talking, but I don't want to be that guy who makes the "my method works and it only doesn't work for your because you're doing it wrong" argument.

All I can really say is that you should consider your wife's perspective regarding your behavior. Both of your happiness requires her to stay quiet about her grievances with you. Even if things are peaceful now, that shit's going to bottle up. And if you're going to be as dismissive to her shouting at you now, disregarding her attitude later is really going to drive your relationship out the window.

[–]Flathatter45-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You are right that we suck at talking about big issues, but most married couples do. Men simply are not equipped to talk about "big issues " with their wives, because men talk from facts and reason and women from emotion. Another commentator once comapred it to master fencer showing up to a rock fight. No matter how good he is, he will eventually tire because the world has more rocks than he has endurance. As for considering her perspective, that is exactly what I am doing. I think it is fundamentally disrepestful, and stupid, to expect a woman to act and react like a man..that is , logically. I've tried it for 20 years. Calm appeals to facts, logic, tradition, reason. They all fail. I don't know if you are married but listen to the voice of experience. Yes, she may leave me but the road we were on was leading to that anyway. And so what if she bottles up her anger? Maybe instead of unloading on me, she will find a more productive way to express herself once she knows i will no longer be a player in her drama. If my marriage busts up, at least I don't want it on my conscience. i want to be able to say that I tried everything. And I can look my kids in the eye and say I did everyhting I could, but we're going to get on with our lives, with or without her. QED

[–]GameboyPATH0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Since you have used personal anecdotes to support your claims (which, by the way, I have no problem with), I may do the same, but only as a counterpoint to your generalizations.

Men simply are not equipped to talk about "big issues " with their wives,

I am. I have the balls to confront difficult issues with my SO, even when it's hard for me, her, or both of us. While it's painful in the short-term, the emotional catharsis overall helps us relate to one another and lighten each other's stress loads. Granted, it's not difficult for me because I generally have good communication skills (which can't always be said for everyone).

because men talk from facts and reason and women from emotion.

Is it unreasonable that I believe that men and women should be assumed to be similar in brain patterns until proven otherwise, rather than the opposite? There are many trends I've learned about in my psych research differentiating men and women, even ones that support sexist stereotypes, but this theory really has no scientific backing.

I think it is fundamentally disrepestful, and stupid, to expect a woman to act and react like a man..that is , logically.

You've already made the point about how it's stupid, but how is it disrespectful to assume that she is logical enough to handle it?

I've tried it for 20 years. Calm appeals to facts, logic, tradition, reason. They all fail. I don't know if you are married but listen to the voice of experience.

I can't really fight your experience (especially when I have relatively little), and it would be disrespectful of me to invalidate your personal experiences by assuming that you're interpreting it wrong - I'm sorry if I had done so already.

But I will say that personal experience is the single most contributing factor to stubbornness. Our experiences are all we have, yet we are individual units of lifetime in a single town, of a single state, of a single country, of the entire world. Even though it is impossible for either of us to make a full, accurate generalization of the gender division of billions of people based on our personal experience, we will go ahead and base those generalizations on personal experience anyway. Neither your relationship nor my shorter one have any weight on the matters of gender divides between 7 billion humans.

[–]exotictantra0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

mate.. I would think you lucked out in getting a partner who possibly has bit extra testosterone..

That means more sex as well.. Good luck and your situation may be the abnormal one here.

[–]GameboyPATH0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What makes you say that?

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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