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What are the tells that a woman might bait and switch sexually? (self.askMRP)

submitted by Tombert_Williams

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We all know that there is a percentage of women that will pull the sexual bait and switch after marriage. MRP theory gives guidance on how best to deal with the problems that come but also recognizes that in some cases, the situation will not resolve even if you do everything right. An ounce of prevention would be worth a pound of cure. So my question is whether anyone has identified the warning signs given off during the pre-marriage good times by women who will be inclined to bait and switch after the marriage?


[–]mindfulbutgutlessRed Beret54 points55 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What are the tells that a woman might bait and switch sexually

You're not lifting

you're not eating right

you're failing to lead

you don't stand up for yourself

you feel guilty when you say no

you are a nice guy

you have no options

You not having goals

[–]creating_my_life36 points37 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're misunderstanding.

Women don't CONSCIOUSLY bait and switch. They don't plan to do it. It's just how they're wired. If a man gains weight, loses frame, loses goals, etc....then the woman will lose sexual attraction. Women have a DUAL sexual strategy: provisioning and comfort; and hot sex and successful offspring. To women, this is as natural as "water is wet." THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW THEY'RE DOING IT.

It's the man's job to remain sexually attractive to ALL women, thereby keeping his spouse attracted to him. MRP is about making sure a man remains a man and remains sexually attractive to women.

To answer your question about warning signs...it doesn't exist. ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE THIS.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There’s a lot of gold in here, and while there are some strong responses in this thread, I’d say the only thing I’d add to this response to make it perfect is the fact that you have to know how to fuck your woman well. She has to know that she’ll get to orgasm or that you know how to keep her excited. If you’re a guy that isn’t CERTAIN you’re giving your girl the best fuck she’s ever had, you are at risk of this “bait & switch”.

[–]3legsbetter0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I find the conscious/subconscious aspect of this fascinating, and would really like to see a discussion of how much (if any) of a woman's behaviour in this regard is subconscious (suspect the answer is "almost all", as frankly it would be for most men too).

The flip side of this is that, as far as I can tell, their response to improvements in SMV should also be unconscious, right? Meaning even a particularly mean wife could very well be receptive -- it's not vehaviour that's determined consciously.

[–]FoxShitNasty8314 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Waaaaay before you you type "why is my cunty wife not fucking me" into Google.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red26 points27 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The only time a woman pulls bait and switch, is when the man allows it to happen.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The only time a woman pulls bait and switch, is when the man allows it to happen.

OP penance: 10 OYS posts, and 10 Hail Mary’s.

[–]WesternhagenWinner11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The main warning sign is you getting boring, fat, and lazy.

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The only warning sign

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

100% when you’re out of shape and have no frame

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–]mrssmithhh-1 points0 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Not sure this is true, because it seems like the whole modern premise of sex, dating, and marriage is skewed and is a set up for failure in the long run. Personally I think a woman harbors distrust and resentment of a man if she has sex with him before a solid, loving, committed relationship is formed. I think she feels cheapened for herself and sees the man as lacking integrity. Those are not good things to build a relationship on. My theory is that, after X amount of time, the woman resents having to put out to a man she believes has no integrity, and withdraws sex because she wants to see if he will like her for herself, sans sex. It’s like a wealthy guy who knowingly married a gold digger, then stopped spending money on his wife so that he could see if she loves him for who he is. It’s crazy because it’s a complete break in the established rules of the relationship and it is impossible to cleanly test the “purity” of love once both parties have entered into an interdependent relationship. Usually the woman just gets more resentful and nasty because she knows she was low quality to have sex before marriage, and that her man is a man without principle or standards. There’s no love in those ideas. The only sex that would come from a situation like that is animalistic desire, and that naturally runs it’s course in a short amount of time.

I really think sex before marriage is a terrible idea for anyone interested in long-term happiness.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–]mrssmithhh0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

But that's the thing - it's all wrong because just trying to fuck a girl means that you're trying to take value from her. It's would be like a girl saying, "hey, just get access to a man's bank account without giving anything in return, then tell me how he feels a few years down the road." He would probably be filled with resentment and disgust.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–]mrssmithhh0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes. 4 years married with two smalls sons.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

just trying to fuck a girl

That is obviously not the purpose of this entire Reddit. We are trying to have a fucking relationship with our wives that involves fucking. Your argument is a non sequitur on MRP.

As far as TRP, sure there is the undercurrent of PUA with a lot of guys. A lot of guys just want to fuck a girl. I think a lot more want actual relationships with a girl but guess what sport? The quickest path to that goal is....wait for it....fucking her. The "resentment" and "disgust" only surfaces later if that (like the example of the man providing money) is the only value she offers.

[–]mrssmithhh1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I get that sex is part of a relationship. But a guy who gets a relationship via sex is like a girl who gets a relationship via the guy's bank account. If a girl asked for full access to a man's back account on the first date, what would you think, as a man? If you went along with it, you would probably feel pretty resentful as time went by. You might even start withholding financial "treats" like shopping sprees and fancy dinners and spa time or whatever. Also, what would you think about your girlfriend? You would feel like a chump for giving her your full bank account so quickly, and you would also know that she was the type of woman who feels happier when you expose yourself to high levels of unnecessary risk. Not a pretty picture. It'd be hard to love someone like that and keep footing the bill for them. See what I mean?

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I love a solid argument. Have an upvote.

[–]weakandsensitive6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I really think sex before marriage is a terrible idea for anyone interested in long-term happiness.

Aren't you a woman in a dead bedroom?

[–]mrssmithhh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think sex before marriage plays into our situation now.

[–]mrssmithhh0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Also, I'm not the one who is uninterested in sex.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry for barging in 8 days later but I had to comment. As a Christian I want to support your statement but the evidence is overwhelmingly against what you say.

Have you considered that only a very, very, very low LD man can wait until he is 30 and get's married to have sex? If that is the kind of man you held out for then is your situation surprising?

The only way the no sex before marriage thing can work- and the way it worked for all of human history until about yesterday- is to:

  1. Marry them off at age 15 and 16.

  2. Start having babies right away.

  3. Impose the death penalty for adultery.

Any takers?

[–]mrssmithhh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol no worries about posting 8 days later. I have very little free time for the internet, and I can only get on here in random spurts every few weeks or so.

Maybe I really am being just to lofty and holding up an unattainable ideal of principled behaviour. Maybe we really can't overcome the animal urges. I don't really know. I can see, though, that abstinence until marriage would knock out a tons of social and political problems, but like you said, that may be there is no way to do this except for marrying them off early or have extreme consequences for extra-marital sex. I'm not so against early marriage should the parties be fully aware and willing, but I'm definitely against the death penalty for it.

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Please take your beta shit elsewhere, it’s not at all like that for alphas and that’s what this sub is about.

[–]friendandadvisor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

She's a woman, that's why she has to give the beta side.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

for alphas and that’s what this sub is about.

Alphas, Betas Gammas, Deltas, but oh my no Omegas!

[–]witnessthenomorebp0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You cannot be serious. Or married. Or sexually active. Even the "purest" of the Madonnas that I've ever known have done sexual things with multiple guys before marriage. You are pushing a narrative which DOES NOT EXIST, and never ever has. This kind of thinking is why we are all in the situation we are in. Making the reality that women are naturally sexual beings into a nasty narrative is the shittiest thing you can do.

I was married to the woman you are idealizing here, pure, religious, no sex before marriage ( except for some heavy making out with a middle school boyfriend) and after 11 years she went out and fucked a woman who worked for her. And made it out to be my fault for not being emotionally in touch with her.

Either read the sidebar and work on it, or take your shitty advice and GTFO.

Spreading this kind of idiotic, religiously driven bullshit is evil in it's most basic form. You are fucking with people's most basic instincts in order to exert control. Ridiculous.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude that sucks.

[–]mrssmithhh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm really sorry about your wife...

I get why you're so angry, but I'm not being absurd or unrealistic, and people have lived chaste for plenty of generations. It's not wrong to want high standards nor to work for high standards.

[–]wkndatbernardus0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why do women get so emotionally attached to the men they sleep with, then? I see where you're going with this theory but, I'm not sure it works out in reality.

[–]mrssmithhh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it’s a chemical reaction that bonds a woman to a man in an intense way so that she desires to remain with the man who possibly impregnated her. That’s fine and can be really good, if she bonds with a man who she would approve of and agree with in a more “sober” state of mind. The problem with sex before commitment is that intense bonds are formed when there is very little emotional trust or true alignment of values or goals. A chemical bond without a solid foundation is a recipe for an unstable, hysterical, jealous woman, because she is extremely attached to a man but has no real trust or connection, so every little thing is a perceived threat or power struggle. She what I mean? Sex is great, but it’s powerful, and it’s like we’ve all forgotten that good things can be bad if used wrongly.

[–]HB32340 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This sounds like serious projection. Women don't see men as cheapened by the number of their sexual partners or how quickly they consent to sex - that is a very male perspective.

[–]Frosteecat2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

What do you think she'll be switching to? Another guy or celibacy?

Like red-sfpplus says, any switch is your fault.

[–]helaughsinhidden4 points5 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Exactly, it is ONLY the blue pilled man who would allow either scenario. The man who sees himself as THE PRIZE and knows that his SMV is higher than his cheating partner. At the end of the day, women don't PLAN to B&S, they just get bored or lose sexual interest in their beta husbands. Watch that same woman leave, get on Tinder, have raunchy hot sex with Chad and Tyrone and brag to her girlfriends about how much she missed it and how great it makes her feel.

That's why you when your wife says "I just don't really feel like having sex anymore" you have to mentally place the words "WITH ME" at the end. Woman are subject to the rules of AWALT, meaning that largely they are not "agents" of their own will but are rather "empaths" of their circumstances. Learn this, use it to your advantage.

[–]Red-Nerd130 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Empaths to their circumstances...

I like that a lot.

[–]mrssmithhh 1 points [recovered]  (12 children) | Copy Link

Really it’s quite awful to strip agency from women so completely. Women really do tend to be more emotionally reactive and less logical, but by saying they are not agents of their own will, you are basically saying they can do no wrong because right, wrong, and choice are not within the realm of femininity. This makes women into children - less than children, since we except children to learn and make choices. This means a woman can do nothing wrong, since nothing is her choice. It’s a crippling attitude. I believe women can be great. They can also be terrible. They can choose, and should be given the freedom to be successful or to fail. Don’t remove that opportunity from women by removing their agency. Women are different than men and should not be forced to look like, act, or think the same as men, but there is no reason why women should have their agency removed.

[–]helaughsinhidden1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Is it the cars fault that it rusts or is it in the nature of the materials, the environment, and the care of the owner? Sure, some makes and models will rust faster. Some within a line will be better and some worse. Some come from better have been given a clear coat, washed, waxed, garaged, and really cared for. Ultimately if not properly managed and maintenanced, all cars rust because that is the nature of metal and entropy. It is the same with women.

Sure, some are definitely better than others. Some will auto correct, but your assessment of women in general being worse than kids is spot on. They are like children with no accountability, entitlement, and a society that gives them more rights and a legal out to keep half the assets and future earnings that statistically they have not equally earned.

Don't feel singled out lady, men are subject to gravitate to beta behavior if it were not for self discipline and mentorship. We all say the same thing "I used to be alpha and then after x years I became a beta pos.....". Don't be mad that things are the way they are, we play the game because we love women in spite of all this and fight against our nature for the glory of a kingly frame and a masterful sex life. Expertly leading a quality woman and raising an awesome family is a noble conquest to the MRP man.

[–]mrssmithhh1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Also, I'm just saying that removing agency from a woman is still another form of white-knighting. A strong, super red-pilled alpha can love a woman deeply, be a great leader, and still give her full accountability for her choices. He doesn't have to remove all moral responsibility from her in order to be a good leader or to be the rightful head of a family.

[–]helaughsinhidden0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Not white knighting, just being pragmatic. You deal with her agency through correction, dread, 1000ft rope, withdrawal, stonewalling, and divorce. Some women aren't worth the effort.

[–]mrssmithhh1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That sounds miserable.

[–]helaughsinhidden0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

According to your own words, you've stated that a woman's exertion of integrity is to choose the right man to make choices. So, your opinion is that goal is to find a man so she can absolve herself of her own agency, accountability, and responsibility? I agree, but she will also try to keep authority too if she is allowed. If she is allowed, she will not trust him too. Then she will feel justified in leaving and he will think it was a bait and switch, but he'd be wrong.

[–]mrssmithhh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think you’re wrong about a woman wanting to choose the right man to make the right choices, but I don’t think it’s ideally so that she can absolve herself of moral responsibility or agency. I think it’s more like a division of labor - she chooses a man to make wise decisions about how to navigate the external world so that she is free to focus on raising a family, which requires lots of choices, reflection, and moral integrity.

I have an issue with the authority thing. I do believe a man should rightfully be the leader and the captain, but I don’t see how removing authority from the woman will do anything but destroy intimacy. No self-respecting person is happy without at least some measure of authority. I do think all people are self-sovereign; however, within a man-woman relationship, two sovereigns willingly step into certain roles in order to produce a productive and harmonious union. And I don’t think any true, feminine woman would ever leave her man for something as flimsy and weak of a reason as her being able to have her own authority. I personally think any woman who does that has lost touch with her own heart and has forgotten what makes a woman truly lovely and beautiful, and has become more like a shell of femininity.

[–]friendandadvisor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

For a woman to try and define/re-define White Knighting is like a woman explaining how to 'man-up'.

[–]mrssmithhh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think what you're saying is right, except for the fact that a man being a good leader to his woman does not mean that he is in control of her own moral integrity. Part of a woman's exertion of integrity is choosing a man who she feels confident can make all the choices she would approve of. No one can be responsible for someone else's moral being or the truth of their soul. That is for each individual to decide and choose for themselves.

A man is supposed to lead, and women really desire and need that. Be even a soldier can choose to obey he commander or not - the solder is still the only one responsible for his actions and choices.

[–]witnessthenomorebp1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good Lord will you can this yenta already?

[–]wkndatbernardus0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure, women have free will but, it seems to be the case that their agency is more limited than a man's since the nature of woman is to submit to the leadership/will of a man. If women had the same nature, they wouldn't "cling" to an alpha the way they do. They would go their own way. No wonder there is no WGTOW movement.

[–]mrssmithhh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do think that women are more prone to try to allow others to shoulder their morality and will; however, I don’t think that this is healthy for women, and women are very much capable of exerting full agency and choice. But it does still stand that men and women do have different natures, and I do think that women greatly benefit from having a loving relationship with a man - a man’s point of view provides a lot of reality and safety that women often lack, and it’s a relief for a woman to be allowed to be fully emotional within the safety of her man’s worldview.

Yes, women are by nature dependent. It just comes with being the ones of the species to have the babies. Babies demand so much, and if a woman had to be totally self-sufficient and also have and care for children, there would be no more children.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No tone policing.

[–]robertwservice19742 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The inclination is a feature not a bug, whether it actually occurs is up to you.

To gauge for it, look for beta tells, which show how she perceives you. Medium is the message.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Two X chromosomes and a man who allows the conditions to be such where she perceives a dead-bedroom as her best course of action.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s all on you. Ask me how I know ?

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A clear indicator is if she says she’s done with bad boys and now she’s looking for a sweet, stable man to settle down with.

Being too low SMV (maybe hit the wall?) to lock down an alpha is another.

Bait and switch has most to do with the man, so the tells are her choices in men.

[–]nantucketghost0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd say that if you're both young, single and kidless then the chances of bait and switch are low.

Now if she's nearing the wall, wanting to hurry up and settle down... Or you make a ton of money and she doesn't... Or even worse, she's a single mother

Then yes, the chances that she's looking for a free meal or roof is high and that you're the man she's locking down (in her mind).

Just be the man that any woman would be proud to have and show off and you'll never worry about the switch.

If you're wife can't brag about you, then should you really be surprised?

[–]friendandadvisor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. Having a vagina.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think there are many conscious 'tells' because this is not a conscious plan.

You generate the polarity and the sexual passion and she responds- or doesn't. If she does you know and don't need a "tell." If she doesn't then you also know and you don't need a "tell."

That said, one can gauge the level of sexual attraction in several ways.

  1. Grabbing your dick and shoving it into a succession of holes vs. laying there letting you do the work is big clue to her attraction.

  2. The 3-date rule (no sex after 3 dates she is gone- not attracted) is a critical clue.

  3. In most cases, with a reasonably long courtship and engagement, I believe that she will show her true colors well before the wedding.

[–]HERE2SHILL0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's amazing that Mrp still doesn't understand "bait & switch" is just human nature...

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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