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Weight loss Advise (self.askMRP)

submitted by ofthehighdesert

Quick background: I started running my map toward the beginning of last year, which one of the main parts included losing a bunch of weight to get down to 10 percent body fat. So I started working out moderately and gained some muscle and lost some fat and then put a bunch back on at the end of the year. Starting in January 2017, I decided I needed to take a more serious approach to get to my goal. So I went to a pretty intense workout program, and began restricting my calories to 2,000 a day with 1 pound of body weight to 1 gram of protein ratio. Things have gone pretty well. If my math is right, I have put on perhaps 20-25 pounds of muscle, which is great, because even when I was very lean in the military, I was scrawny. I have also gotten down to about maybe 15-18 percent body fat, losing a steady 2 pounds per week.

So here is where I am stuck and am hoping some of you guys who got down to 10 percent body fat can help. Now that I am about 10 maybe 15 pounds to my goal of 10 percent, I am noticing that my body is resisting losing the weight much more. The plateaus are closer together and require a lot more restriction to get past. So right now, I have to drop to 1500 calories with at least 40 percent protein to move the number down. The trouble with that is that I am pretty damn tired and I get gassed out easier during my workouts. I am also concerned that I am shooting myself in the foot as I spend more time in a very restricted calorie period, as the body will adjust and just lower my metabolism.

Did anyone else run into this problem when they got down to within 10-15 pounds of their goal? Are there any strategies that keep your energy up while still forcing your body past the plateaus? Thanks


[–]abdadaRed Beret2 points3 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

The last pounds are probably not normal fat but stubborn fat.

Do a stubborn fat protocol instead -- you can't burn stubborn fat from caloric deficits.

[–]ofthehighdesert[S] 2 points3 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

I started looking at this, what are your thoughts about intermittent fasting?

[–]abdadaRed Beret7 points8 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

That's my protocol that I've pushed for almost 9 years. I literally have 1000s of data points from 1000s of people who followed my dietary guidelines.

My protocol for men and women is "simple":

  1. Do 2 weeks of IF. If you need a guide, google my username + intermittent fasting. 16 hours fast for men, 14 hours for women to start for 2 weeks.
  2. Keep IF + add keto after 2 weeks. IF increases diet adherence by 60% in my studies. For keto caloric help go to my site at ohketo.com (no ads, no affiliate links)
  3. Keep IF + Keto and add StrongLifts or any other barbell training. IF + Keto increases exercise adherence by 30% in my studies -- mostly due to more energy, motivation, less snacking, less dopaminergic activites.
  4. Increase your foot time daily. Put all your dirty clothes on your favorite chair so you stand more at home. If you use your phone (texting, calls, Facebooking), only do it standing up. Don't sit with your phone in hand ever. Park your car as far from a store or work as possible and walk the rest. You want to add at least 8-10 miles of EXTRA walking a week.
  5. Add ZMA to your night, 1 hour after eating any dairy, 30 minutes before bed. 2 capsules for women, 3 for men. Weird dreams are normal. You NEED 8 hours of sleep as a man, my studies say 8.5-9 is even better. If you can't sleep 8 hours at night with ZMA, try adding a nap if possible at some point to build up to 8 hours minimum.

6 weeks and you will see massive changes. 12 weeks and others will see massive changes. Correlative evidence that this protocol also helps with ADHD, emotional issues, OCD and even motivation/drive.

[–]Aaren_Augustine1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I see you on Ketogains. Ever had guys try fasting 24 hours or more?

[–]abdadaRed Beret2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Ever had guys try fasting 24 hours or more?

I have fasted up to almost 60 hours when traveling. I always fast on international trips because airport food is junk and airplane food is junkier. I went to Aitutaki and it was almost 60 hours of travel to get there and I fasted 52 hours or something. The final small jet had devil's eggs on board so I ate those, lol.

Went to Africa a few years ago to hang in the Serengeti and fasted the entire 40 hours of the flight. Landed with no hunger, no jet lag.

Longer fasts daily don't work well for me because of risk of muscle loss and I also get the most benefit from daily fasts of 16-18 hours. 16 hours on bulks, 18 hours on cuts. Works great for me for 9+ years.

[–]Aaren_Augustine2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Ha! Going to Ireland on Sunday and was thinking the exact same thing.

I'll push my IF back to eating once a day for two weeks and then add in Keto like you've suggested above. Less food prep sounds nice. Thanks for the info

[–]abdadaRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, IF + international flights = less jet flag for sure. Do you take ZMA? If so, adjust your ZMA timing to reflect when your new clock schedule will be. In advance by a few days.

[–]Aaren_Augustine2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't, but will

[–]abdadaRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

ZMA before bed is fucking awesome. Take it 1 hour after any dairy so there's no reduction in benefits. If traveling internationally, adjust taking it so you take it before the new bedtime coming.

[–]ThrowTheEgg1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I have no trouble w/IF and can go 24 hours pretty easily with nothing but water and black coffee. But, as you say, i do worry about muscle loss- anything can be done to prevent/minimise over, say, a 24 hour fast? I've read about BCAA but don't know if that will do the trick (conversely, if it's necessary). Appreciate any info.

[–]abdadaRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

BCAAs seem OK. Had no effect on me, honestly.

Eat enough protein when you eat and it'll help reduce muscle loss. Incorporate resistance training to signal to your CNS that you need that muscle and your body will prioritize not throwing it away.

When you eat, the body focuses on carbs and fat for energy because these are easy. Protein is tougher, and protein's FFAs and aminos stay in the blood for a lot longer after consumption versus carbs and fat.

[–]ThrowTheEgg1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's great thanks. Yeah i'm doing all you list, so will persevere without (as much) fear that that the hard-won muscle will melt off if I leave food alone for a day. I'm in much the same boat as OP, closing in on final few BF%age points, determined to get to sub-10%, but shit is hanging on tight!

[–]abdadaRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Stubborn fat sucks and diet won't cure it. You absolutely have to stick to IF -- don't add butter to your morning coffee or cream or any of that shit. Fast that stubborn fat off.

One thing that helps me, if you can do it, is to add a nice long slow walk during the last hour or two of your fast. Some dudes with office jobs will set their fast break at 1pm and go for an hour walk at lunch, come back to their desk and eat. Walking + last few hours of fast = stubborn fat burn.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

because of risk of muscle loss

False. Watch one of Jason Fung's videos. Keto fasting preserves muscles.

[–]abdadaRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Jason Fung and I don't see eye to eye on quite a few things. I also have 10+ years of historical self reported n=1 data from thousands of fasting and keto adherents who have done DEXA scans individually and the correlations are strong that keto and muscle retention isn't specifically better than CICO -- as long as protein is high and resistance training is maintained.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You should report this to the nutrition community. Because as far as I've read, it would be ground breaking.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Didn't know you had a website....I love cheesecake too!

I'm on a cut and going to give this a shot towards the end. Those last 3-4lbs are always a bitch.

[–]Gogo4u1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For later

[–]JustOneMoreAcct0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not sure about #5, but #1-4 have basically changed who I am.

I started lazy keto (no bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, beer or wine; did not track macros) about 9 months ago while tipping the scales at 300lbs. I added in daily IF (when I realized I wasn't eating much more then a banana or fiber bar in the morning) about 3 months after that. I started SL5x5 in Sept and moved on to a 4x week PPL variation in Jan due to knee issues (even on box squats). I do do 10-20m on a elliptical pre-workout though as it does help w/ the warmup.

I'm now skirting 200lbs (give me another week), walk a minimum of 4 miles a day, and can do 60 pushups in a 10 min window (3 sets of 20; previously I would struggle doing more then 1). I wear a clothes size that I have never worn (I went right into XL in junior high). I figure once i hit 190, I will switch over to ketogains and maybe have some tator-tots w/ that rib-eye.

Looking better/younger then a year ago gets me IOI's that put me in a completely new territory on how to handle (as I was a fat/obese introvert most my life; no longer).

[–]abdadaRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's amazing!

Were you ever able to do a push-up before weight loss? 100 pounds is amazing -- fully 50% of your current body weight is gone.

Try carrying around 100 pounds of potatoes for a day and compare, haha.

[–]JustOneMoreAcct0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When I pick up a 45lb plate at the gym, I wonder how I could do much of anything w/ 2 of those added to my weight.

A year ago I could do 1 push up and maybe 2 more knee pushups after. But that was it. I had very little upper body strength. It wasn't until TFA's Men of March that I started doing them and was surprised on how many I could do at once (as I just didn't do them @ the gym).

I will add though I also started doing a weekly class of technical/instructional oriented yoga (so less flow, more how to) which has also been good for just overall stretching. And I will not do running/jogging as that sucks the soul out of you.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know if people can bounce in an out of keto like that. For me, I'm either in keto or I'm not. It usually takes a few days after a moderate carb diet to get back into keto.

I love keto so I just stay in it.

[–]Freedomeofchoice1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Abdada knows what he is talking about, I was going to suggest IF as well but his details are much better. I am currently on a 450 deficit and stronglifts and am getting to the same point now.

[–]abdadaRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Do you ZMA at night? If not, do it. Really a great addition.

[–]Freedomeofchoice1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I do take magnesium Citrate for sleep and keto, as well as B Vitamins during the day, but not that specifically. I have heard of it but some say great and others useless. But since I already take 2, could add zinc as well :) What time is best? I also have been using 7-keto in morning.

[–]abdadaRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh yeah you're fine then, no need. Magnesium before bed is best I think. Also an hour or two after any dairy because calcium and magnesium don't mix at the same time.

[–]Freedomeofchoice2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cool ,thanks, will probably be safe and just add zinc to my daily pill to get all 3.

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have also gotten down to about maybe 15-18 percent body fat, losing a steady 2 pounds per week.

This is way too harsh for anyone who isn't fat. Reduce your calorie deficit to half so you lose 1lbs per week.

The trouble with that is that I am pretty damn tired and I get gassed out easier during my workouts.

Gassed out? You're not supposed to be doing long workouts on a cut. Low volume, high intensity lifting is what you need, nothing else. You're at a calorie deficit, you can't build muscle now. You just need the minimum amount of exercise to prevent muscle loss. 15-20 sets per week is all you need.

I am also concerned that I am shooting myself in the foot as I spend more time in a very restricted calorie period, as the body will adjust and just lower my metabolism.

Your body doesn't really go to a lower metabolism. What happens is your NEAT gets reduced - you just get lazy and move around less. I make an effort to take walks at the final periods of my cuts.

[–]Terribledragon4Hire0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You make no mention of your weight. So I will assume that you are cutting your calories way to hard and not taking in the right calories.

[–]ofthehighdesert[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I weigh 180lbs, 5'8" and I am somewhere between 15-18% bodyfat.

[–]mrpthrowa0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Without steroids or hormones (the right way) this requires timing.

You still need deficit to lose the fat. 500 a day max.

Keep your protein intake.

Never cardio 24 hours before a workout.

Eat a good meal, with enough simple carbs 3 to 4 hours beforehand.

Do your lifting.

Do extended cardio afterwards to burn off calories and fat.

Rest 36 to 60 hours.

Do three workouts a week.

Don't mess up the program. Weight loss of 1 pound a week at this stage. You also want to ease yourself into maintenance mode habitually.

Oh also how is your sleep? You need a TON. Ideally never wake up to an alarm, which means sleeping real early. 9 or 10p.

[–]ofthehighdesert[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sleep is an area that needs some work. I only get 6-7 a night simply because I have been busy. Things should slow down here in the next couple of weeks and I can start getting to bed earlier.

[–]BaronVonNrx0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

It just gets harder and harder as you age. With all he talk about lifting and upping one's physical smv I am surprised test and steroids aren't discussed more here.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not all of us can take steroids.

[–]BaronVonNrx0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I get that, I've never taken them myself, just as a forum that focuses on the physical so much I am surprised it's not discussed more.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are plenty on TRT. High doses of test (and other anabolics) for bodybuilding is a complicated subject. Plenty of folks dose without thought for a protocol or long term side effects. It's an interesting topic to be sure.

I always recommend tests for common genetic and blood disorders. For example, Factor V Leiden is very common in the general population. Combined with TRT it can be a death sentence due to blood clotting.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd say keep bulking then cut.

It's be easier, and, after all, you want be a JACKED 10%, not a marathon-runner 10%.

[–]jacksarmy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

On Greyskull for weight loss you basically add a half hour of walking 5 days and 1 day running

[–]LaLongCarabine0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A)Caloric intake - MyFitnessPal app

B)Workout - Crossfitinvictus.com daily workout

[–]RBuddDwyerRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I think 10% or less BF is getting into dedicated body builder range. You are going to have to do a lot of work to get there, and it's going to be hard to maintain. Is that really a realistic goal for you? Physical attractiveness is not as important to women as it is to men.

[–]BrazilRedPill0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Keto diet is your answer.

[–]ofthehighdesert[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

How do you have any energy when doing a Keto diet?

[–]Freedomeofchoice1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

After the first couple of weeks, you will have more energy than before. But during the transition it will be worse. When i Started keto there was no way i would have been lifting hard those first weeks. I have more energy now when an empty stomach (except for BCAA and beta-alanine pre workout), than when within 2 hours of eating which most people do outside of keto as you get too hungry otherwise.

[–]BrazilRedPill0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

You have plenty of energy. Forget about cardio bullshit and focus on heavylifts. Check about 5x5 stronglifts.

[–]mrpthrowa-2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Cardio is essential for any fit man. Can't just sit around for months on just lifts. Key is to time it properly.

[–]BrazilRedPill3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I've lost 33 lbs on keto diet and stronglifts and I'm 37 years old. No cardio was included at all. Keto does everything for you when it comes to losing weight.

Bitches prefer a buffed guy over a skinny one. I am now at 20% body fat on navy calculator, buffed and still losing weight every month.

If you just want to attract bitches, and have no athletic pretensions, skip the cardio and focus on stronglifts.

[–]abdadaRed Beret2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Cardio is a great way to look like a skinny fat runner. For years I fought cardio with proof that on my body, cardio heart rate would STORE more belly fat and make me lose fat from my appendages. Like clockwork -- I'd do 12 weeks of cardio, my belly would grow, even in a deficit. I'd look like a runner.

Now somce recent science is showing this might be true. Hell, the heart rate zone graphs from the 1980s even say so: you had LISS fat burning heart rate, two cardio heart rates, and HIIT fat burning heart rate.

They SAID the non-cardio zones were fat burning but didn't mention that cardio can be fat storing, lol.

Avoid cardio heart rate like the plague.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What is your opinion of HIIT protocols for conditioning?

[–]abdadaRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Start with uphill sprints for sure. Easy on the knees and back. Burn your lungs out, walk down to rest and then back at it.

My HIIT actives are all field and park play generally. Ultimate Disc kills my lungs dead but I like trying. Last summer I did a lot of gymnastic work at a playground with Velcro strap weights. That was seriously taxing.

[–]trp_dude-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Calorie in / calorie out is wrong. What matters is not how just how many calories you take in but what your body does with it. To control that, you need to control your metabolism, not just how many calories you eat. You need to control your insulin, which means you need to lower your carb intake, especially sugar.

You should do:

1) Watch what kind of calories you eat. 1 calorie of carb is very different from 1 calorie of fat (hint: fat is much better, protein even better than that)

2) Regulate insulin surge. Avoid refined sugar, juice, etc. That makes your insulin surge. Insulin => fat. Don't drink diet sodas either. You get the same insulin surge.

3) Watching when you eat. Within 30 min of your workout, you can eat just about anything. That's the time to eat carbs. Those go straight to your muscle in the post workout phase.

4) Remember fruit have lot of sugar. Don't eat too much fruit.

Read Taubes' Good Calorie, Bad Calorie

[–]wedsngr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Taubes is full of shit, and no one credible takes him seriously.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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