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11

FR I fucked up again (self.askMRP)

submitted by prarrott

I come to admit a failure. In hopes I don't lose my positive attitude, and find some resolve to move forward.

Wife gave me a hard-no for the third straight night and who knows how many times in the last month and a half straight. I had been owning my shit and she'd been into me last several days (I thinkits right time of month). She strung me on all night with the tease of sex and shut it down at the end of the night. I know, I know, Im not attractive enough. Period. But all the constant denial wears on a man.

I got openly frustrated. She knew it. I told her she manipulated me, which was weak. I had her phone because I was looking up something and tossed it on the bed. It slid off the end. After my shower she couldn't find it and I told her its behind the bed. She then acted like a teenager (of course) and called me names, etc. and she made a point of showing me she locks me out of our bedroom. She's done this before and I just knock on the door incessantly or sleep on the couch like a pussy. This time I kicked the door open with three kicks, in a semi-rage, and said "do not ever lock me out of my room. If you dont want to see me, go sleep somewhere else". She cowered in fear and called me a psychopath, of course. Now I'm sitting on the couch realizing about 15 minutes may have unravelled weeks of positive work with her.

I'm reminded I'm doing this for me, and I've never felt better. I believe in that. But failing to maintain frame is disheartening.

I know the sidebar, but can the crew point me back in the right direction.


[–]The_LitzRed Beret12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck it, it is the new year let us put a positive spin on this.

You lost frame, literally. But lets pick up the pieces and see what you got out of it.

"do not ever lock me out of my room. If you dont want to see me, go sleep somewhere else"

This is a positive. You have laid down a boundary not to be crossed. She now knows this.

How you handle yourself going forward will turn this event into a win or lose for you.

First....calm the fuck down. You are trying to undo years of fucking things up in a short time, slow down, you are about to scuttle your ship captain. From reading your other post's this is a very real problem.

Mainly, you are trying to 'win'. There is nothing to win or lose. Stop arguing with her, this is your main problem right now. Each time you argue you lose frame. Bite your lip and feel like a bitch, for now.

If it helps, go and read up on Stoicism. Don't worry about things beyond your control. right now, your wife and her feelz is not something in your control.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This time I kicked the door open with three kicks, in a semi-rage, and said "do not ever lock me out of my room. If you dont want to see me, go sleep somewhere else".

This might be fully appropriate, if done within frame to enforce a reasonable boundary and not primarily as an emotional outburst. Many a parent, for example, has had to do something like this to set boundaries with children who hope they can get away with drinking or drugs in their room by locking the door.

She cowered in fear and called me a psychopath, of course.

Are you a psychopath? Who gets to decide? Do you care what she said?

Now I'm sitting on the couch

Why weren't you in bed? Did you step back into her frame and let her send you to the couch, after literally breaking out of her frame by kicking open the door?

15 minutes may have unravelled weeks of positive work with her.

With proper frame, this episode could have moved you well forward. It may still, if you frame it dispassionately and appropriately from this moment forward. It is an entirely reasonable boundary that you will not be locked out of any room in your house, or out of your bed. That is all there is to it.

[–]nopeToThe43rd0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed

[–]screechhaterRed Beret7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

WTF ? C'mon !

It's time to buck up and kill the "I know, I know, I'm not attractive enough" shit and remove your time and presence. Remove from the area with a hard no.

Let me tell you, the kicking of the door down was a good step, it shows you are breaking the whinny assed shit, But, now moving forward avoid losing your cool next time and have clothes ready and take off to a bar or a parking lot and read a book- look toward productivity. Ignore the texts and come back in happy go lucky.......

[–]sh0ckley4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

... avoid losing your cool next time and have clothes ready and take off to a bar or a parking lot and read a book- look toward productivity. Ignore the texts and come back in happy go lucky.......

My favorite part of this clearly experienced advice is:

Ignore the texts

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It was nearly midnight. We were headed to shower and bed. We have kids. Though leaving the house would normally be a good idea, it doesnt seem like one here. I just lose some of the little sleep I'm getting. Any other ideas?

[–]nastynickdrRed Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah, because your case is so special, so leaving the house wont work for you right? You are such a special snowflake and so is your wife. You dont even need the sidebar man, its not for your special case.

If her locking the door bothers you that fucking much, leave the house and when you come back calmly inform her that "if you ever lock me out of my room im gonna divorce ur ass".

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Every single day is a new, non influenced by her denials, bitching grab by the balls day, and by god don't let her shit attitude or denials, drag you down.

What is you BF % ? What is your dress and hair style and hygene ?

You need to take time and attention away. Go to another part of the house and read nothing is going to get you down, ....... right ?

When she wants to cuddle ...... goodnight. rewarding good with time and attention and withdrawing with poor

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

But all the constant denial wears on a man.

Who is this person that can deny you anything? Is it your mom?

Oh, its your wife...

she is denying you what?

Her love and affection?

Got it.

Well. Guess its time to see how many others wouldn't.

The only person denying anything to anyone is you.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It appears he is getting nearer to this. My opinion, he isn't ready yet, but soon.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

glad that I haven't had to go that far. But, for me, I would have been actually gone officially first as well.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I recently did. A catch and release got sticky, but that's for a future FR.

[–]VengefullyY0urs-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I finally snapped a couple months back and went 8 lays in 8 days with 8 different women.

That really changed outcome independence and abundance mentality in the relationship.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds almost manic. But good, it worked for you.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're probably posting here because you can't talk about it with anyone else. It's ok man. Tomorrow will be a new day. Keep owning your shit. Might have to ramp up the comfort. Hold your head up and look at all the positive changes and take it minute by minute, then a day at a time.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She strung me on all night with the tease of sex and shut it down at the end of the night.

So were you orbiting her all night accepting delays and "later" promises? If so, how needy and unattractive is that?

She can only string you along if you allow yourself to be strung along! If your wife doesn't reliably deliver on her "later" promises, as you have already reported that she does not, why in hell do you give them any credence? Have you not heard the definition of insanity? Are you stupid? Would you continue to pay cash in advance for a pizza to be delivered by a restaurant that had failed to deliver later several times in the past? Would you wait at home all evening doing nothing just hoping that maybe they'd eventually deliver this time? Of course you wouldn't! So why would you behave differently with a wife who hasn't earned your trust? You're the prize, and your initiation offers must be take it or leave it, right now and up front, OI on your part, until her credit rating improves.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Looks like the bloops are bombing again.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

hahahahaaha.

fucking retard.

I know, I know, Im not attractive enough to my wife.

that's what you left out.

fuck you sound like a whiny kid. i wouldn't fuck you either.

get this one simple fact through your head right now - your wife is not your gatekeeper of sex, your wife is your gatekeeper of sex with her.

get over it pussy. if you continue being unattractive, don't get your panties in a bunch when you get results that needy, unattractive, whiny men get.

[–]sh0ckley1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

your wife is your gatekeeper of sex with her.

Fact.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You lost your shit and it makes me wonder how much you've learned and read here. Frame is step one. Realize you aren't as far as you think, and your "feeling good" is just that you've realized you are on the path to improvement.

As some have said you should have left. Best answer. Don't come back. Hell...get a hotel room. Leave it on the bank records. When she asks about it smile and just "oh yeah". Leaving is the first step and clearly you've never done it. Don't come home from work on time every day. Go by the bar. Stay out longer getting errands done.

Most of us come here for sex. Because we aren't getting what we want nor the quality. Here's the thing.

It isn't about sex at all. /u/GargantuaBlarg29 put into very clear perspective here. She knows you want to fuck. She's stupid to think otherwise but something fucked up in her head makes enjoy leading you on far more. Which then links to so much of the RP theory.

Why would someone who is supposed to love you deny you anything?

Yeah we know why. Then if we know this why are you acting a like a bitch.

Fuck. You just motivated me to get a post out I have been mulling over. The simple fact is that it is NOT that you had an emotional reaction. That's fine. Anyone would, she would if you suddenly decided that you weren't in the mood to talk, go out for that walk you've been promising or any number of things.

Where you bitched out is loosing control. You allowed the emotion to become you. This is utterly illogical. She locks the door. Laugh your ass off. Go downstairs get dressed, go out, come home smelling like beer and pussy. Then do it again.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

She knows you want to fuck. She's stupid to think otherwise but something fucked up in her head makes enjoy leading you on far more.

Like I always say, he is giving her more pleasure by letting her see how much she hurts him than she would get from letting him fuck her.

The solution is to NOT let her see the pain she is causing you. Bullies only stop bullying when you stand up to them and laugh in their face.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. I remember your lesson distinctly.

he has to reverse the mental model.

Men need to be the predator. Leave her feeling like a hunted gazelle. IN your look, your touch....make her feel at any moment you will pounce for sex, a kiss, hug...whatever it is.

As it is women like the model to be one of a cat playing with the mouse.

[–]freshona1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, sounds like you need to not give a shit a little bit more.

Having said that, I think kicking the door down wasn't so bad as you seem to think. Sure, you'll need to possibly repair it now, but so what. No one got hurt, and now she knows you won't take her shit.

Yeah yeah, violence is bad, the ultimate loss of frame, yadda yadda yadda. You chose to kick down the door, you had a reason and you had the means. If she keeps on goading you to break stuff, then you have a problem.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

The next morning here is my question: The reason things had been going well is I had developed enough frame to spend time with her and have fun and joke and not get drug down by her poor attitude and tests. I just did what I wanted to do in hanging out with her and left when I wanted to leave. I initiated sex both nights and was denied, but shrugged it off with a smile. Spent the whole night last night cooking together and watching TV, hence the positive momentum and feelings. We havent spent this much time together in a while.

After this episode and these hard no's, do I continue this or do I withdraw. If I continue today to act like nothing happens, fix the door, and go about having fun with my family including her, and spending time with her when the kids go to bed -- it seems to send the message that the sexual denial is OK with me. If I withdraw it sends the message I am weak and butthurt. Advice here?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You might have to build up a track record of good, positive, non-whiny times with your wife before she notices the lack of time and attention. u/druganswer has a great post on always playing your nice card.

Now, it's not about the quantity of time. You could spend 20 minutes a day with her. If those 20 minutes are the best part of her day she'll light up whenever you walk in. You've got to show over several months that you're a fun, happy guy with options. I'd say still spend time with her, but don't spend every evening with her. Ration your awesomeness

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, I travel one night a week and leave 1-2 others. I dont plan on going anywhere tonight, though. So go with the 'act like it never happened ' routine? She will test me, for sure. And probably tell me to get away from her and not talk to me. But I'll just shrug it offwith a smile, as opposed to the "lets talk about what happened, etc" noise

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd probably offer one apology for losing your temper then never talk about it again. If she feels like you don't have her best interests in mind it'll reinforce her poor opinion of you.

[–]Chump_No_More2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I initiated sex both nights and was denied, but shrugged it off with a smile. Spent the whole night last night cooking together and watching TV, hence the positive momentum and feelings. We havent spent this much time together in a while.

whole bunch of covert contracts still in there... which is precisely why you lost your Frame. You're expecting (demanding) reciprocation when you should just do these things because they please you. If it doesn't please you, then do something else... and own it.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're lying to yourself if you actually believe the gigantic pile of bullshit you just wrote in order to make men on the internet look at you more positively.

I initiated sex both nights and was denied, but shrugged it off with a smile.

lol. yeah right. "i wasn't butthurt. i swear." what a fucking joke. that's why you kicked down a door right?

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I was committed to the approach in the "positive frame" piece and was enjoying it. That's why I was so discouraged by my behavior last night. I plan to offer a "I lost my temper last night when I shouldn't have." And then go back to how I was acting before.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I wouldn't apoligize. This is your house, with your rules. If she pisses off the bear she gets the claws. As long as there was never any indication that you were going to hurt her, or wanted to or were trying to hurt her, just own it with a smile. Be firm and tell her, this is YOUR house, and her petty bullshit will no longer to tolerated. Then walk up and kiss her on the forehead, or if she rejects you go lift and buy a new door that she can't lock, or that has a key you can use.

I honestly think kicking the door down was the right move. She will spin it as "domestic violence" but only you and her know whether you were actually dangerous to her or just the door. Sometimes you have to break a few doors to take back control of your life. If it happens again though, try to kick it down in one shot instead of three.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I gave it a damn fine effort on the first two

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She strung me on all night with the tease of sex and shut it down at the end of the night.

Spent the whole night last night cooking together and watching TV, hence the positive momentum and feelings. We havent spent this much time together in a while.

Was she cock-teasing all night, or did you just have a big covert contract going in your head? The subtext of these two statements is inconsistent.

She hasn't earned the right to cock-tease or flirt and then delay; if you expect sex or will be bothered or butthurt about a denial, escalate immediately and go do something else if denied. (Dread Level 4. You don't necessarily have to leave the house, you could work on a house project or play with the kids.)

Knowing her recent behavior and having read NMMNG, you should know full well by now that any expectation or hope of sex later from her teasing, flirting, or spending pleasant time with you is your covert contract, which you must eliminate, either by making it overt through immediate escalation as above, or by choosing to carry through your "positive frame" engagement with no expectation of sex later.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Pull yourself together. 15 minutes. 15 fucking minutes was all it took for your mind to get back in control. Do you see why leaving works early on? Because it prevents you from doing stupid shit.

Hard no...third straight

And how did you kino all day to set up for this? And how did you initiate? Let's hear it.

I told her she manipulated me

Jesus Christ.

Knock on the door incessantly

My 3yo does this

Kicked open the door

Jesus man.

 

Pro-tip. Most all modern doorknobs have a hole in the front. Stick a small flathead screwdriver in there and turn it...it unlocks the door. Give her a wink as you walk in.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would definitely change the locks on the bedroom door and make sure he has his own key well hidden. Preparation beats butthurt 8 days a week.

[–]All_Ads_Deceive1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are attracted to psychopathy bro. Dark triads. Her calling you a psychopath is just like women calling Chad and asshole while still sucking his dick every day.

Translation from womanese. "I crossed the line and locked him out of his own room. He's usually a pussy and sleeps on the couch. Kicks down door and sets his boundary. OMG he's a big strong man who stands up for himself. Maybe I'm actually sexually attracted to him. I'm gonna call him a psycho to see if he folds to my insult. Yes I was correct, he pussied out and slept on the couch again

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol, he literally broke his frame.

[–]Mecha750 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You failed because you lacked abundance mentality. So you got a hard no three days in a row. Go read /r/deadbedrooms and realize you havent gotten it to bad. Then go out and find a plate. But breaking down the door? You got to pay to fix that shit. Knocking on the door and ask calmly for your pillow and the KY would have been a good way to reframe your earlier fuckup.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Go read /r/deadbedrooms and realize you havent gotten it to [sic] bad.

"People have it worse than you" is the shittiest line ever. For every argument it is ever used for. Triggers me every fucking time. If he wants to fuck eight times a day, that's what he wants.

Tell him to find a woman who will fuck that much. Tell him to find something else to do. Tell him he puts too much self worth into fucking. But "others have it worse"? Fuck that.

[–]Mecha750 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You must have stopped reading because i told him in very next line to just go find a plate.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Frame check.

[–]Mecha751 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes DEER

[–]DarkAges10 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

"do not ever lock me out of my room. If you dont want to see me, go sleep somewhere else". She cowered in fear and called me a psychopath, of course. Now I'm sitting on the couch

Is she sleeping in the bed and you are on the couch after this commandment from you? How did that happen? That's the far more interesting part of the story.

[–]sh0ckley0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It likely happened due to OP's delivery.

I found over time with frustration that the more calm I was when setting boundaries the more effective the results.

A man who can restrain his anger while still directly expressing it is more attractive. She already knows you're angry.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, she stayed in the bedroom, but I went back to the living room to sit down and collect my thoughts. I didn't want to be around her. She left the door open and I went to bed later.

[–]sh0ckley0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The best way to put this behind you is to pretend it never happened. Her emotional memory is non existent and if when she tries to drag you back into her frame with emotional tornado - don't bite the hook.

[–]atlhartRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I know the sidebar

No you don't. You know it's there. You know it's this thing you're supposed to read. Maybe you've even skimmed it. Maybe you bought NMMNG. Maybe you read. But you don't know it. You clearly haven't internalized anything, and it's pretty clear from your post that you aren't doing even a quarter of the shit you're supposed to be doing.

STFU. Say it out loud. STFU. You aren't ready for anything else. If you're wife bitches. If she yells. If she says no to sex. If she does anything that annoys you. STFU.

And work the levels of dread. Dread levels have two purposes. One is to get you the sex you want. The other is to make you a better person. Someone guys want to be, and girls want to fuck.

You do not have your shit together. No woman would fuck you. In your wife's eyes, you are a psychopath. I bet she even has a go bag packed. Kicking down doors is not what a leader does. A leader is someone that others want to follow. A tyrant is someone that rules by fear.

STFU. Read the entire sidebar. Read it again. Do the excercises. Lift. Work your levels of dread. STFU. Lift more. Read the sidebar again. Lift.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely. You can't just read things once. We have to condition ourselves to be new men. When you read a book the second time you see things your old conditioned self missed.

[–]470_2_700_nm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You had her phone last and put it in a shitty place where it got lost, and then put it on her to find it. She then started acting like the oldest teenager in the house which is OK we expect this. You started this problem, you should have solved it.

Locking you out of your room is a decent shit test, but you should have ignored or done anything but show her it was getting to you.

I don't agree with any posts here saying kicking down the door was the right thing - simply from a divorce rape perspective. It puts too much credence to a case that you are actually dangerous. If she happens to be in front of that door when you kick it in and you bloody her nose or something, man you are fucked. I do like the fact that you kicked the door down, it's kind of awesome, but way too risky.

Also I want you to find a way to think about this as a transaction. Her sex = your time and attention. You know your currency, and she knows hers. Not start balancing the fucking books.

[–]drty_prRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Kicking the door in os a good way to get the 5-0 called on your ass. She no doubt took pictures of your wreckage.

Do something that pisses her off, like crank the music. She will undoubtedly come down to turn it off. When she does, go the fuck to bed.

Or leave. Go sleep at a friends place. If my wife ever locked me out of the bedroom, Id ghost her for at least 24hrs.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey, you have your 30 day plan. Setbacks happen. Shake it off and keep going.

One "trick" I learned is to be very aware of noticing tension building and finding ways to diffuse it quickly. Some tension is good, but too much tension and I start to lose mindfulness. You have to find the sweetspot that works for you.

This report describes the buildup pretty well. If you go back to your plan, you talked about taking the expectation of sex off the table. Have you worked out how to do this?

What worked for me was experimenting a bit and developing a safety valve for my sexual energy to vent the tension quickly. Basically I look forward to masturbating in the evening to release tension. When my wife teases me or whatever I use it to charge the spankbank. Of course I prefer to have sex and I do initiate, but my expectations are always that I will be rejected and spanking the monkey.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But all the constant denial wears on a man.

Re-frame your thinking. You are working to be more attractive. You are wearing her down.

She has her own problems. You cannot solve her problems, only yours. One of her problems may be losing you.

You hold all the cards, you just don't know it yet. You will keep improving and she will either respond or not. That is a problem you cannot solve for her or talk/negotiate her into it.

Keep your head on straight and proceed. Best

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

She strung me on all night with the tease of sex and shut it down at the end of the night.

This is probably LMR and you failed in epic fashion.

I kicked the door open with three kicks, in a semi-rage, and said "do not ever lock me out of my room. If you dont want to see me, go sleep somewhere else". She cowered in fear and called me a psychopath

Actually I like it. Women who pull childish bullshit like locking you out of your own room should be confronted. If you could have kicked the door down and remained calm while you told her never to lock you out of your room again this would have been much more effective. She affected you and probably saw all this as a whiny tantrum instead of a strong man standing up for himself- finally.

point me back in the right direction.

Be calm and cool. If she brings it up again, and she will, deflect and laugh about it. "Oh that's right, I need to fix the door. Don't worry sweetie, I will take care of it."

When she bitches and rages just tell her with a smile, "don't worry, I won't do that again because you are not going to lock me out of my own bedroom again." Do it with full confidence and assurance that you are in the right- but only if you can stay cool as a cucumber.

You broke frame by losing your shit but nobody was hurt and you taught your wife an important lesson. This is MY house, and you will NOT lock me out of MY bedroom.

[–]iloveairplane0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What kind of door do you have to your bedroom that doesn't take a fucking toothpick or paperclip to open anyway? Fix that pronto.

Or did you forget that and decide kick first pick the lock second?

[–]WhiteTrashKillerRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If she doesn't like boundaries, remove all of them!

Take every door off it's hinges, cept the entrance doors. No bathrooms, no bedrooms, etc. Leave them like this until behavior improves. It won't take long.....

[–]nopeToThe43rd-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Others have said it, you did great until you gave up ground.

I agree with your response until you ended up on the couch. I'd have done the same, kick the fucking door in, say the same, and then lie down in bed and go to sleep. With the correct attitude, this can convey the very clear message of, "You don't run this shit, I do." period, full stop. knock it the fuck off!

Now, following that action up with you going to the couch, now you're admitting that you're an emotionally driven being who's not in control (just like her), you're calling that on yourself actually.

Be the man you want to be proud of, does that man let his wife tell him that he needs to sleep on the couch? Should he?

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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