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PhantomDream09 suggested I make this post after a discussion of how these things shouldn't affect our relationships but that they can and do.

I noticed this is myself when we first married. My family used to watch Home Improvement every week. I remember thinking at the beginning of our marriage that things just were not working out between us like they did for Jill and Tim and I'll tell you, with embarrassment, that this baffled me.

For those of you unfamiliar with the show, these two characters had a very good marriage and were obviously in love. However, Jill lead the marriage. She did the normal stuff, as did he. He'd mess up and hurt her feelings, she'd get mad and he wouldn't understand why, and then he'd fix it often with a grand gesture and all would be well and lovey dovey.

So, when we first married, I'd get offended, get angry and then expect him to fix it and then we'd be in happy and lovey dovey.

No dice.

My husband doesn't do apologies unless he's done something wrong and back then, if my feelings were hurt, in my mind, he'd done something wrong. Yes, I got this from tv.

I see this trend in my children as well. We let them watch little tv and we straight up tell them it's 99% garbage, but these shows are also filled with enough trivial truth that it is easy to mix up what is true and what is being pushed on us (we spend time explaining to our kids the difference and also make sure to expose them to what is true).

Have any of you experienced this? What happened? What do you think of how media portrays men and women today? I will tell you that whenever I see even a remotely feminine woman I get nearly giddy. It's rather ridiculous.


[–]Camille113256 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What a great topic! I agree that the way relationships (and men and women in general) are portrayed in the media influences what viewers expect in their own lives. The messages can be communicated regardless of the intentions of the writers, and often we don't realise what we are absorbing until it backfires.

A small, silly, personal example: when I first moved in with M I'd start conversations with him right as we would go to bed. I didn't realise I was doing something that annoyed him until he snapped at me one evening. Talking right before bed seemed natural to me and I didn't understand why he just wanted to go to sleep. I realised that it felt natural because in TV shows and movies whenever a couple is shown in bed they are usually having an important conversation. This makes sense in fiction because nearly every scene is going to advance the story in some way. But in real life, it's okay to just go to sleep!

On a more serious note I think that a lot of women expect that their relationship (and life in general) has to have a plot to be legitimate. They craft a narrative and expect for every beat of the story to occur. But sometimes there is no "climax", other times there is no "denouement", and in other cases there's not even "rising action". In the absence of these expected moments, women often create the drama themselves. I think we do this because we need a purpose and we want to live a life that has stakes.

I asked M about lessons the media taught boys when he was growing up and he said that the content in his youth (he was born in 1982) promoted the idea that men were lucky to be in a relationship, and they had to do more work and take on more blame in order to maintain the happiness of the woman.

Something I just thought about right now: a lot of modern films and TV shows involve women entering into relationships with complete strangers that they meet out of the blue. Is this conditioning them to expect to meet their man randomly with minimal effort? In the past, older women in your family and in your various social circles (church, friends, organizations, etc) were very involved with the dating process. As we move away from having real communities, this traditional practice has diminished (not completely of course, location matters!). I don't recall many TV shows and films that show women successfully being set up by family and friends. And the amount of media showing women actually putting in effort to meet a man (other than getting more attractive) is lacking as well. Now this is definitely a reflection of the current SMP but I think it also reinforces things.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think we do this because we need a purpose and we want to live a life that has stakes.

This whole paragraph is interesting and I think you might be right. What people don't realize is that, in real life, rising action and stakes are usually down right scary and nothing like the movies. We should learn very quickly that a life with "no plot" is a good life, indeed.

[–]littlegoosegirlMid 20s, Married 1 year! 9 years total1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

But in real life, it's okay to just go to sleep!

Lol this is too real.

Me: "Hey it's 10:45pm, want to have a deep, intense conversation?" Him: "No wtf, go to bed. Leave me alone." Me: "But, don't you want --" Him: "OMG GO TO SLEEP!!"

[–]Camille113253 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hahaha that was us verbatim!

[–]littlegoosegirlMid 20s, Married 1 year! 9 years total5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Contrary to many girls my age, while I watched a lot of Disney movies and girly TV shows, I formed the majority of my relationship expectations around books. I read a lot of epic fantasy (ok, that's all I read lol, and if you need a recommendation I'm here for you), and the heroes of those books formed a large chunk of my expectations for men and relationships in general. I think this is good and bad. In most fantasy novels, the protagonists come up against catastrophically difficult odds: dark gods have awoken to tear the world apart, a magical blight is slowly killing all life on earth, reality itself is falling apart, etc. So, I was prepared for (and almost expecting) large odds in any relationship or endeavor I might choose to embark on. That resilience got me through 2 years of long distance with my now-husband (Worth it! But awful.).

However, when all you read about are young men with extraordinary powers, your expectations in a man become a bit... high lol. Most of my favorite male characters in fantasy novels are a combination of leadership, cleverness/intelligence, "goodness"/strength of character, and determination. I dreamed of meeting a boy like Harry Potter, or Eragon; someone who started out ordinary but contained an untold wealth of depth and potential. As such, my standards for men were high. I found most of the boys my age as dull or one-dimensional, not at all like the budding leaders I was always reading about.

Happily, I found the real-world equivalent of these characters in my husband. While he can't do magic, he has that rare combination of ambition and true goodness. I got my scholar king after all, which is great. But sometimes I do yearn for the storyline of it all, as /u/Camille11325 states in her comment. There is no grand plot in my life, no quest or fantastical setting. I have to make it for myself, to see the extraordinary in the ordinary. Sometimes I grow bored easily because the regular pace of life feels too slow, and I have to remind myself that I live in reality and I can't expect my husband to create a fantastical quest world for me to live in. I have to create that for myself. :)

[–]tintedlipbalm1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

However, when all you read about are young men with extraordinary powers, your expectations in a man become a bit... high lol.

You just reminded me of Why I’m Settling For a Man Who’s Not My High School Poster of Aragorn

[–]littlegoosegirlMid 20s, Married 1 year! 9 years total0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Omg this is great!! XD

[–]Never_EvilEarly 20s | single/dating2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I grew up watching Disney shows, so my childhood/pre-teens revolved around shows like Lizzie McGuire, Kim Possible, Wizards of Waverly Place, That’s So Raven, Hannah Montana, etc.

I know for a fact that through all of these shows, I grew up learning that I had ‘choices’ when it came to guys I could date, and that girls usually date multiple different men before settling on ‘the one’’. Often, the girl would pine for the stereotypically ‘alpha’ dude before settling on her ‘best friend’.

  • Lizzie had a crush on Ethan (attractive & popular) and had a whirlwind romance with Paolo (attractive & famous) in the movie, before settling on her best friend Gordo (smart & practical).

  • Kim had a crush on Josh (attractive & mellow artist-type) and a full girl-fight over Hirotaka (attractive & ‘dominant’ & popular) before settling on her best friend Ron (goofy sidekick).

  • Alex (Wizards of Waverly Place) had multiple crushes and two exes (a cute boy and a ‘bad boy’) before settling on Mason (literally a loyal dog bc werewolf who she had an on-and-off relationship with, and then finally settled with him bc he killed the rival & evil & manipulative Dominic). Alex’s love life over the seasons is a lot more nuanced, and personally, I couldn’t stand it. Alex was constantly disrespectful and the show made it seem like it was okay and hilarious.

  • Raven also has multiple crushes while keeping Devon, a steady loyal long-distance boyfriend. ‘Nuff said.

  • Hannah/Miley has a Jesse (bad boy) vs Jake (famous) thing… she ends up with the secretly-a-sweetheart Jesse… Jake’s more of the jerk, things were one-and-off with him until it ended after he was caught cheating.

So all-in-all, girl tries a few guys and then chooses safe guy over 'dominant' guy.

I come from a very conservative family, so for us, it’s almost ‘tradcon’ in the sense that I wasn’t encouraged to date during middle school or high school. So I didn’t date. But my friends grew up watching the same shows and we bonded over the storylines. I never watched every episode (I had to look up the finales to know who ended up with who). But I knew most of the shows were missing something ‘real’, and I never really liked the dude that the girl ‘fell-in-love’ with (except for Jesse, he was cute).

…k but the show I loved and restored my faith in humanity was Sonny with a Chance. It was stupidly funny, and the main jerk love interest for Sonny was literally named Chad lol. The best. Took forever for them to get together.

And when they finally did, lol, this scene is everything:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVVJvwX_Cts

[–]StingrayVC[S] 7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

See, a lot of the shows I grew up with as well had the girl fall in love with the "nice guy". I remember getting so frustrated in high school because I dated one guy and he was SO nice. I then wanted nothing to do with him. I could not figure out what the hell was wrong with me, because on paper, he was perfect. In reality, he literally repulsed me.

[–]Never_EvilEarly 20s | single/dating2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

In reality, he literally repulsed me.

Yup. Worse is when a guy in high school that I thought was fun and not the typical 'nice guy', but then he slowly turned into one. Even worse was when I realized it's not just him, it's me. I shit-tested and bantered and then his behaviour towards me changed... and that repulsed me. I felt bad about it, because like you said, great on paper.

It took RP for me to realize that 'turning the bad guy into a nice guy' only seems great on TV and in movies. The classic 'Beauty and the Beast' story, really. Doesn't work.

edit:spelling

[–]StingrayVC[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The classic 'Beauty and the Beast' story, really. Doesn't work.

Nope, because the Beast was more attractive before he changed.

[–]Never_EvilEarly 20s | single/dating2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeesss! <3

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I find it immensely comforting to know I'm not the only one hahah! They really messed up his human form, he looked like her gay twin. :0)

[–]StingrayVC[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not only his human form but his voice! His flipping voice. It was so strong and then he turns human and speaks . . . . I thought, NOOOOOO.

But even then I knew it was wrong to find the Beast more attractive so I never said a word to anyone because I was embarrassed by this fact.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely, if you're going to make him look like a trans chick, at least let him keep the voice!!!!!!!

I think there's a reason Beauty and the Beast 2 took place before the spell was broken. :0)

[–]--cunt5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I see this IRL a lot too. Sometimes my friends / family post on Facebook "sweet" things their men do, like surprise them with a pet terrier they neeeeded or have babies before they are ready and I have a moment of wait why doesn't my fiancé do that?? Then I remember the 8,000 passive aggressive posts bullying their men and remember I got a man who doesn't put up with that crap. I think it's sad women would rather settle for a man because he worships the ground she walks on and does anything she says (aka buys her shit) than find a respectable man

[–]littlegoosegirlMid 20s, Married 1 year! 9 years total3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's sad women would rather settle for a man because he worships the ground she walks on and does anything she says (aka buys her shit) than find a respectable man.

"If you put a woman on a pedestal, she has no choice but to look down on you."

[–]Never_EvilEarly 20s | single/dating2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's sad women would rather settle for a man because he worships the ground she walks on and does anything she says (aka buys her shit) than find a respectable man

You know, I wonder about this too. It's funny because the whole 'man worshipping woman' thing almost seems like a part of male-nature (ECs have to correct me if I'm wrong on this).

Plus, I wonder if this dynamic is what works in healthy LHL couples (a dynamic that I still have trouble understanding bc it's not natural to me). The woman still respects her man because she doesn't feel like he's subordinate to her, but she's comfortable with being 'worshipped' by him. Like an ENFP guy with an INTJ woman, for example, maybe.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

So glad you made this a stand alone post!

I grew up on musicals, classic films, Disney, sci-fi, fantasy, and mysteries. There are very few genres that I don't find enjoyable (modern comedy - office/parks and rec style awkward humor etc) has been the hardest for me to really embrace (because I always feel embarrassed and anxious when the people on screen are being confidently stupid).

I have always created stories in my head, often inspired by characters I identify with in novels and movies. This is something I still do today, usually as I'm winding down for bed. I'll flip through my mental database and either revisit and expand an already existing story, or create a new one from scratch.

There's no doubt that my imagination has benefited from being exposed to so many different kinds of books and movies.

I will say that when I was younger, part of me was certain the stories I made up would somehow come true in my normal life. I was always just one birthday away from discovering some secret talent, family curse, or fantastical destiny. It was only a matter of time before I stumbled across a magical item, or befriended some kind of beast.

As far as adopting certain behaviors and using them in real life- the Bones example I mentioned in my comment to you is still the first one that comes to mind...but there is one other thing I was always confident of: falling in love and spending my life with someone.

It never occurred to me that I might end up alone, or that I would fail to meet a good man. Even though my dating experience was sparse, even though I wasn't a good flirt, even though a million other reasons (from not being an exotic beauty, to being too tall, to having no interest in marriage or kids, to not enjoying parties).

I have no idea where this confidence came from. Having a stable family, my love for stories with happy endings, and being a stubborn optimist may be some possible explanations. The only differences between my relationship with Occam and the relationships I cooked up in my head revolve around a scarcity of magic, dragons, and space travel. Happily, I can scratch that itch by playing games. :0)

I wonder if this is typical or not though, and I'd like to hear from others:

  1. Did you always want to get married?

  2. Did you always know that you would find someone - or was it more of a hope?

[–]StingrayVC[S] 2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

  1. Always.

  2. Yes, until I started college. Then I was old enough to realize that I might end up alone and I would sometimes be scared stupid. I didn't let it last long because what was the use? But I remember vividly thinking, "my parents met in college. If I don't meet him in college, what am I going to do?!"

I met my husband my junior year.

Tangentially, speaking of parks and rec, I married Ron Swanson.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Tangentially, speaking of parks and rec, I married Ron Swanson.

In that case, you hit the jackpot!

I realized that I have always had a soft spot for misunderstood grumps, I also have a bad habit of sympathizing and rooting for the 'bad guy' in many cases (Hannibal tv show, Hannibal movies, House, Riddick etc, Clint Eastwood in anything) there are a few exceptions of course. I swear nothing makes me tear up faster than a strong man breaking down just a bit and great 'bro-mances.'

[–]StingrayVC[S] 2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I really did hit the jackpot. And reading these comments, it really is like I'm saying hello to myself.

First, I had to stop watching The Office because I was so embarrassed all the time, but I loved parks and rec. We also have the same taste in sympathizing the the "bad guy", though not Hannibal. He was too clever for me to sympathize with, but I liked him. I liked him a lot. Roddick - love, House - love, we just watched The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly last night - love.

So, you have to watch The Last Kingdom on Netflix. One of the BEST shows I've ever seen that show the dynamic between men and women. And the Men! Oh my . . . . the men. Yum.

I liked it so well, I got the book and am reading it now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the recommendation (second one from you today hahah!). I'll report back once I get around to it.

I really enjoy Longmire, Frontier, Marco Polo, Medici, Midnight Diner (I know you like cooking shows, and this is a wonderful blend of stand alone stories and cooking), and Peaky Blinders (all available on Netflix).

[–]StingrayVC[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I've watched Longmire, Marco Polo, and Medici though not all the episode of any of these. I really liked them, but I have a habit of just getting bored with shows after awhile, even though I really like them. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I know.

So, you might like Sherlock Holmes which is based in modern England and it's quite clever. Also, Ripper Street and Hell on Wheels. Again, these were very good, but I didn't finish any of them. I think part of the charm of the shows I do get through is watching them with my husband. We have so much fun watching good shows together, but we keep different schedules so we don't do it very often. The Last Kingdom we made a point to watch together and it was awesome (plus only being 8 episodes a season helps, too).

Anyway, I don't talk tv very much but if you ever want to talk The Last Kingdom it'd be fun. Maybe a free Friday thing, because it is LOADED with RP stuff.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Hahaha yep I am current with both Sherlock and Ripper street. There was another early American show... Copper or Coppers? New York when it was still growing and the early days of the police force. I also really love Elementary (US sherlock holmes show with Lucy Liu as Watson).

I lose steam with shows too, even if I love them. I have a bad habit of doing somethingbwhile a show is on.

I will try to watch an episode today and report back!

[–]StingrayVC[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's so funny. There was one show I wanted to tell you about but I couldn't think of it. It was Coppers.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm on episode four, and Uthred is driving me crazy with his flip flopping. I really like both Brida and Milthred (even if they both have really tragic names). Of the men, I think young Ragnarok is my favorite (though I loved his dad too), and the Englishman that always calls Uthred 'arseling'. I feel bad for father Beocca, constantly trying to temper Alfred and Uther.

I'd like Uthred more if he had some kind of allegiance to either the Danes or the English. He just flips sides depending on the situation, and wants to have it whichever way will get him what he wants. I was so mad that he didn't leave with Brida and Ragnarok from the forest. I also thought the "I gave my word" excuse was bull. If Ragnarok had arrived before Alfred asked for Uthred's oath - Uthred would have gone with Ragnarok. So I dislike his lack of loyalty (one way or the other).

Also, I hate Alfred. I get that he's smart or whatever, but I just want to wring his scrawny neck.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Also, I have no idea if I'm spelling any of the names correctly hahah. :0)

[–]StingrayVC[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Uhtred is really frustrating at the beginning, but he gets SO much better. Ragnar Sr and Jr are two of my favorite characters and Mildred is AMAZING. So much happens in these shows and the characters change and grow.

Watching how the characters related to one another and their actions regarding this is fantastic. Uhtred has loyalty. Deep loyalty, just not to anyone in authority above him and watching the dynamic between what Alfred wants and what Uhtred wants is also interesting. Alfred is frustrating but remeber he has a goal of uniting England and he does what he needs to to accomplish this greater goal. I don't particularly like him but I respect him.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Also, I should have told you that this is historical fiction. While Uhtred is fictional, Alfred is not. He really was a womanizer, quite sickly, and very clever. He is also a Catholic Saint, sainted for his success in unifying England. I don't know what all is true history and what is fiction in the story, but I find it fascinating that much of this is true.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay I might be on season 2 now hahah. :0)

I love the brothers Erik and whatever. I'm on episode 7 right now and I want to talk about how much I love a budding relationship...but I don't want to give any spoilers away.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you are episode 7 of season 2 and it's the relationship I think you're talking about, I cried like a baby. Actually there are two that had me crying. Eric is probably my favorite at this point in the show.

[–]littleeggwyfEarly 30s, Married, 10 years total0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have no idea where this confidence came from. Having a stable family, my love for stories with happy endings, and being a stubborn optimist may be some possible explanations. The only differences between my relationship with Occam and the relationships I cooked up in my head revolve around a scarcity of magic, dragons, and space travel. Happily, I can scratch that itch by playing games. :0)

I feel you're probably right about the stability being part of it, because I found that having a quite unstable family and not being an natural optimist made me feel the opposite to you, that I probably wouldn't find a good man, because my experience was they were going to turn bad eventually!

Did you always want to get married?

I did when I was small and it was the dream, but I really went against it as a teen. I always wanted commitment and monogamy, though, but marriage seemed like jinxing love

Did you always know that you would find someone - or was it more of a hope?

I really didn't know, I hoped but kind of in secret and then despaired because of the men I met!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

interesting that this article was on NPR yesterday as this topic is being discussed!

http://www.npr.org/2017/05/24/529862830/its-polyamorous-polysaturation-unconventional-relationships-abound-on-tv

"Of course, pushing boundaries and titillating viewers is nothing new for television. Durrani remembers when networks in the 1990s used lesbian kisses on shows such as L.A. Law and Friends to goose ratings during sweeps week. "You can do that for a little bit, but I think it becomes old and tired and I think your audiences see through that," he said."

[–]StingrayVC[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But Dan Savage points out that the stories about the mice that play accomplish what television, film, and literature have always done: push the envelope, make you think, provide vicarious experiences, and give you a chance to contemplate your choices.

This is interesting. Two things come to mind. 1) I don't watch these shows, because I feel forced upon. I get annoyed or bored and turn them off because it's not organic. It's not part of the show in most cases. It's just, how far can I push the envelope and it's tedious.

2) have you noticed that now, to push the envelope even further some stations are showing reality shows about submission and ultra traditional relationships? What does that have to say about all of this? People are bored with it and now, the new rebels, the interesting people that make you think are the hardcore traditionalists. Won't that fun to watch as the heads explode?

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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