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[–]TempestTcup points points [recovered] | Copy Link

A record 16 out of 100 Navy women are reassigned from ships to shore duty due to pregnancy, according to data obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by The Daily Caller News Foundation’s Investigative Group.

But by August 2016 that number reached nearly 16 percent, an all-time high. The Navy reported 3,840 of the 24,259 women sailors who were aboard Navy ships were pregnant.

I'm assuming that Navy women have access to birth control, so why do you think that so many of these women are getting pregnant and leaving their stations?

“A pregnancy takes you out of action for about two years. And there’s no replacement,” said Elaine Donnelly

Jude Eden, a nationally known author about women in the military who served in 2004 as a Marine deployed to Iraq said a single transfer can cost the Navy up to $30,000 for each woman trained for a specific task, then evacuated from an active duty ship and sent to land. That figure translates into $115 million in expenses for 2016 alone.

16% is the same pregnancy rate as civilians as per this pdf chart from the CDC, but you would have to assume that a lot of the civilian women were actively trying to get pregnant with a planned pregnancy.

[–]Arizona-Willie6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Getting knocked up is a good way to get away from a bad / hard / undesirable duty station.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

As controversial as it is I truly think if you get knocked up on your mission/leave/whatever. You AND he should be ousted.

When my grandfather was working in the navy he got very badly sunburnt (blisters, the while 9 yards) And he couldn't tell anyone because he would have gotten in so much trouble for it. For a sun burn! Something tiny compared to a pregnancy.

So Yup, if you get knocked up while you are out on the boat you both can gtfo. You want kids then choose a different path. (Get it! Freedom of choice!)

[–]frozen_strawberry points points [recovered] | Copy Link

Seriously. The other day I saw a post in one of the local Facebook groups where a woman was looking for someone to take her child in for a couple of weeks because she had no one and she had to go away on army business. How much you wanna bet her head is not going to be in the game when she's away? Giving the kid to a stranger.. something tells me there should be a rule about single mothers.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

There are rules for this! She should have had an approved person to care for her child in the books. My husband had a woman he worked with was out processed because her action plan person (her grandma) fell ill and she didn't have anyone else to care for her child. Whatever that woman on Facebook was doing was not okay and if her leadership found out, she would have been discharged! Crazy.

[–]frozen_strawberry points points [recovered] | Copy Link

She said something about her plan falling through due to illness too. But that can always happen. What if the family member falls ill while she's thousands of miles away and there's no one else?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's true, but to be fair that can happen to a wife while her husband is deployed.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, this is not surprising. The overwhelming majority of women in the Navy are enlisted members rather than officers. Of course that means that a lot of the work they are doing on ships would be a lot of grunt work like maintaining aircraft, but depending on the position they could be doing something like scraping old paint on the side of the ship. Women officers on the other hand have it much better as the work is medical or management related. They're certainly intelligent women and this is a long term career for them.

That being said...this is most likely an issue with enlisted women. This is going to sound harsh, but many of the people who enlist straight out of high school are not exactly the most upstanding individuals at that time. My SO included. The Navy (and armed forces in general) turns boys into men. Gives a sense of duty, honor, and brotherhood. It turns lives around for those who want to change. Some people don't end up changing/ don't want to change. The irresponsible enlisted women can use pregnancy as an easy way out or to make the rest of their time be really low key. It's a huge drain on resources, but I wouldn't want that type of individual (male or female) working in the armed forces anyway. If they're being like this selfish in a non combat situation, can you imagine in a firefight? Certainly, not a person you would want to be providing cover for your loved one!

BC is incredibly easy to come by, and of course accidents do happen, but there is really no excuse to be pregnant while on deployment. Of course fertility can be weird some times, but guess what! The Navy has lots of great medical resources with physicians who are familiar with things like deployments and are incredibly helpful with planning!

TLDR: Women who "accidentally" get pregnant to avoid deployment/crappy job shouldn't be in the Navy or Armed Services at all.

[–]TheRumbleofThunderEarly 20s, LTR, 6 years7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This exactly! And I also definitely agree with you on the enlisted front as well. There are both lovely and not so lovely people who go into service this way.

This is just my opinion, but how irresponsible! You are surrounded by people who need you and rely on you. You have a VERY important job to do!

The sudden departure of pregnant women aboard military vessels severely hurts military readiness and morale for those left behind and who must pick up the slack.

I wonder if this damages trust between military members of different genders, or changes the trust in women who have left to give birth after they come back aboard? Especially looking at this from a masculine merit-based group dynamic. They know you didn't do your utmost to prevent it from happening. I realize that mistakes happen, but if all of this was from just mistakes, the numbers wouldn't be so high. As you mentioned, BC and medical resources are cheap and available, why not double up during your leave just to be absolutely sure?

However, with the introduction of the all-volunteer military, the Navy provided many lucrative incentives to men and women — including free housing, medical care, recreation and educational opportunities. But women got additional benefits, including free prenatal care, daycare, counseling, and special education for toddlers and children with disabilities or for other “special needs.” “Since benefits offered to recruits who are women are so very generous, it almost becomes an incentive,” said Donnelly. “One feminist advocate many years ago referred to the military as a ‘Mecca for single moms.'”

What do you think? While the amount of benefits for service members are lovely, and sometimes needed, do you think the amount is too high? Do you think this could affect the quality of people enlisting to serve?

I agree with you and others here. There needs to be harsher punishments/consequences for women who leave for pregnancy while deployed in order to lower the frequency. Military service is temporary, and you chose it. Do your job, do it well, and then go have a family.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The key benefit for people is education (GI Bill) and career opportunities. I think people who join for housing/medical is very rare. Why would you put the work in when you can get it for free while on welfare?
. .

If we want enlisted women, I think we need to stop with the equality bull shit and start thinking about duties that would be well suited for women. Instead of punishments, why not work to prevent the problem? You can't do crazy physical labor while pregnant, but you can do things like IT or nursing assistant work or communication type work. Why not start women in these positions right off the bat?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually a lot of people stay in the military because of the security it provides, especially for medical care. I know many myself. It's one of the major perks to military life, having a housing allowance and paying so little for health care. I'm sad and scared to leave it.

[–]TheRumbleofThunderEarly 20s, LTR, 6 years2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great points! I agree with you about duties that women would be well suited for. The first challenge will be getting everyone to acknowledge that there is indeed a difference between women and men. The second will be getting everyone to act on it.

My SO has always been against women in combat roles, simply because they cannot perform consistently at men's physical standards. This is super important, as you need to be able to rely on the people around you to have your back. An example is being able to carry a wounded soldier off the front lines or away from danger. Those dudes have tons of muscle and are HEAVY. I don't know if I could do it, even if I trained. Dragging maybe, but that's not always an option.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women who have careers in the military can't be discriminated against for pregnancy just like they can't in the civilian world.

I understand the point you are making about the benefits for single moms, but single fathers have these same benefits as well as married soldiers.

[–]nichesea points points [recovered] | Copy Link

As a female veteran, your tl;dr is easy enough to agree with but I find the majority of everything else you wrote both sexist and misinformed. While the data exists, there are always consequences for the people who choose to skirt their duty. It's a drop in the bucket compared to the people who choose to follow through with their commitments and excel at the duties they are expected to perform, male or female. You have no idea what duties are given to women vice men let alone enlisted vice officer. Please don't speak on behalf of women in the military from a position of a spouse.

[–]QueenofMay2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wondered when the military Women would chime in. I do not agree with everything as well. I am against women in combat roles. But medical aid, communication and logistics are perfectly good jobs for women who want to serve their country this way. Pills are apparently not the best birth control for soldiers. I mean you would have to take them regularly. I do not know whether it is feasible in a combat/military context.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's not true! We all don't think exactly the same.

Edit. I mean to say, I hope you stay! We all have varying opinions on this subject matter.

[–]teaandtalk29, married 6 years, together 80 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'd be interested in hearing more about it from your perspective :)

[–]nichesea points points [recovered] | Copy Link

Because you were so polite, in combat and military situations, sexual relations are not allowed as it is. Receiving or taking birth control is not the biggest issue. I'm pretty sure in any stressful situation sex is a very human way to get some sort of release including but not limited to nursing staff, in an icu environment.

The women who find themselves pregnant while deployed could have been in the early stages of pregnancy and didn't realize they were pregnant to begin with. There are always consequences for this and it has an impact on career. As far as women who continuously get pregnant just to not deploy they are few and far between.

It's also worth noting that people join when they are young and after a certain point decide to settle down and have a family. Lets say you have been trying to get pregnant for a while but things just weren't working out as quick as you hoped and suddenly you are up for a deployment but guess what you're pregnant. It's not as if people strictly join the military just so they can spend 12 weeks with a newborn. They are also expected to whip their beat up bodies right back into shape or risk their careers.

There are so many types of deployment that have so many different job expectations to just say that a woman is capable of being pregnant shouldn't allow her to carry out her duties anywhere in the world is ridiculous. Women perform grunt work same as men it really just depends on who is drawing the short straw.

I don't think today's culture really allows for women in combat roles. I think the women who prove themselves to be capable in combat roles should be given the opportunity to fail or excel just like everyone else seeing as how the bar to get that chance is pretty extreme as it is.

I thought that there was some sort of benefit from still giving a nod to traditional male female roles from a relationship standpoint but to see it bleed so heavily into something Women have successfully done and have it smeared is so insulting. I just can't believe that women who choose to live a more traditional life would insult other women who choose to dedicate themselves in service to their country be belittled for also being human. I find speaking from the grounds of a military wife about women in the military especially insulting, personally. Also, am military wife as a veteran, so I get it from every angle.

[–]teaandtalk29, married 6 years, together 81 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wonder if there being rules against sex makes it more likely that people wouldn't be using good birth control.

And I'm sorry that you've felt insulted. I think most of what non-veteran women know about military culture comes second hand, so there's a lot of misinformation. As with everything, the unreasonable minority spoils it for the majority through their actions - no one's husband comes home and complains about the hard working woman who got pregnant after five years in the military, but they WOULD complain about the lazy 22yo who got deployed, slacked off and promptly got knocked up. Those people do exist, and unfortunately, they're often the most visible ones :(

[–]blushinglillyMarried 5 ys, Early 30s4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I tend to live by the rule of never assigning to malice what I can assign to stupidity. So I wouldn't assume they are doing it on purpose, I suspect it's more likely to be a failure in judgement.

[–]teaandtalk29, married 6 years, together 84 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As someone mentioned above, sexual relations aren't allowed, but stressful situations may make people seek comfort in sex. If that's the case, they might not want to seek birth control, in case they get in trouble. So yeah, I can see that being a problem.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm willing to bet that it's less intentional than we would think. I mean women on these vessels are surrounded by lonely men and some of them are suddenly extremely attractive to hordes of men for the first time in their lives. My husband has described this phenomenon to me in places he has served with few women. I am sure these ships have places and codes for how to hook up. Lots of sex means that the chances for getting pregnant go up. That's what's I'd think at least.

[–]cynicalhousewife points points [recovered] | Copy Link

If companies pay maternity leave than what can we expect? People are always going to take advantage of an opportunity like that. You get the benefits of said job without having to attend. Most people are not martyrs, if you offer them an opportunity they will take it whether it's the 'decent' thing to do or not. Look at mass immigration as an example, I am sure that if you were in their situation, you would do the same. Human nature is lazy and opportunistic. Blame the government.

[–]QueenofMay2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maternity Leave is one of very few tools wich actually help working Mothers. Any other benefit just encourages those that do not want to work.

Edit: Why do the companies pay the leave? where I live the state supports mothers staying home for a certain amount of time before and after birth.

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