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Hello thar ladies!!

I was thinking about class and social status this morning while sipping my coffee in bed today (you know, typical Sunday afternoon! XD) and I am curious of the extent that class factors into dating -- specifically for women who subscribe to RP thought.

Background on me, I grew up in an economically lower- to moderate-income household (prole) but with parents that had UMC/MC West African values, so heavy emphasis on gender roles, higher education, white collar work or STEM, and keeping public appearances. This dichotomy has been tough to navigate, as I often felt like I didn't fit in anywhere growing up, but I have learned to accept it and my upbringing has its benefits. This has also factored into my dating somewhat, but now that's I'm RPW, a lot of that has come back to the surface. For this post, I'm talking both social and economic classes.

I have found that in the past, when dating guys who were UMC or UC by Western standards, I was always super uncomfortable. They would do things and expect things that were completely foreign to me:

  • Going to expensive restaurants and sampling the ENTIRE damn menu and have a bill north of $500.
  • Wanting their gf/date to be dressed to the 9s at all times as the lowest amount of effort.
  • Table manners I've never seen before. What the hell is a salad fork and why can't I use it to eat my rice?
  • Concepts like hosting multitudes of guests on a regular basis outside holidays.
  • Spending $100 for basic clothing items like t-shirts as the standard.
  • They buy whatever they want in cash and are virtually never in debt. They magically have thousands in savings without effort from inheritances.

Regardless of how kind or sweet I was, these rules mattered, and being unable to live by them meant I could never really fit in. Since those experiences, I'd decided to date guys who were more working class. Less earnings, more prole values, but still hardworking, masculine guys. I have found that this is way more to my liking.

  • Care much less about outward appearance, just be attractive overall.
  • Similar spending habits and expectations. Dates are more about time spent together vs activities.
  • Dates are expected to be affordable before anything else. ($20-100 usually max) Since being in a relationship, we don't even really "date" in that sense anymore.

My current boyfriend comes from a similar socioeconomic background and while dating him, I felt relaxed and I didn't have to think about our classes at odds. I care less about how we're perceived in public because we "match", if that makes sense. I have much less anxiety about my "role" in the relationship because I know what to expect. I feel comfortable in my own skin and beauty and it shows.

In general, I believe that when women are looking for partners and vetting them, they are considering more than just the person but how their potential relationship will be perceived. Why? Because ultimately we ladies think in communal terms and if our partner is perceived to be high value, then we by extension increase in our own value. When it comes to class, a marriage to your partner can ultimately graduate you to a higher class structure or demote you to a lower one. So class is always present in our vetting process, even if we don't necessarily actively consider it.

I wanted to know other ladies' thoughts and ideas on class and dating. How did it factor into your relationship or marriage, if at all. Do you think it matters as much today as it did in previous generations?


[–]Camille113254 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Great post! I agree that class is an important factor to consider in the dating and vetting process. People of similar backgrounds and upbringings are more likely to share the same worldview and have the same expectations when it comes to lifestyle and relationship dynamics. We stress at RPW that women find men that they can trust to lead, and having the same values is an essential component of that trust.

In addition to the differences that one may notice when dating a man from a different class, there are also a lot of differences in what each class considers desirable for women. This applies to everything - wardrobe, hairstyles, tattoos, personality traits, professions, education level, etc. Girl game is all about being as attractive as possible and positioning yourself to be approached by the right man, so women should take class into account when making improvements and acting on whatever strategy they decide.

I would love to have more discussions about class and all things RPW, thanks for bringing the subject to the community :)

[–]munchinggobbles1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

So would you say that a women should appeal to which ever class she wants to date within or appear attractive to all classes on general?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It would be impossible to appeal to everyone, we encourage women to tailor their appearance, behaviour, and lifestyle so that it attracts the exact type of man they are interested in. In addition, they should be realistic about what type of men they could reasonably get commitment from and not waste time on those who aren't good prospects.

[–][deleted] [score hidden] stickied comment (8 children) | Copy Link

Here are some posts that you can use as a reference in this discussion:

Just wanted to make sure everyone is on the same page :)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Do you think it would be much different for those of us outside of the US (i.e. the UK) despite both being English speaking countries with similar cultures?

[–]yetieaterHusband (9yrs), mid-30s, 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the UK has slightly different signifiers of the upper classes - nice clothing, for example, doesn't apply as much, because in the UK the upper classes are also associated with landowning, and consequently their everyday clothes may be suitable for outdoor pursuits, whilst their best are likely to be tailored suits and designer dresses.

The main difference I would suggest from the linked list in the UK is that family and family friends are more important in the UK upper classes. Because they are the connections that make one upper class - you know people who know people, and are respected in the right circles.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

There will definitely be similarities in Western cultures, but there are also differences. There are even differences between the various states and subcultures within the US, which is always fun to dissect. Come to the IRC if you want to chat more about it, we discuss these things all the time :)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Gosh I haven't been on the IRC in ages! OK I will do! Going to pop out now but will be there later on hopefully :)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yay!!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

thanks Camille!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Really great info!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks! I highly reccomend reading Class by Paul Fussell :)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I tend to not think about it much, but the men I have been romantically involved with have all been either from the same or above socioeconomic class. The biggest thing I have found, is that it does play a sizable part in being able to relate to the other person and having similar backgrounds. I never really considered while vetting, but I always consider stability, and having your life together.

Although my SO and I grew up in much different circumstances, he is now a step higher than I am. We are extremely compatible, but the situation he was in during his childhood sometimes pops up in his habits, but has never caused any serious friction. If anything, we have an interesting discussion about not our pasts, but how we will go about things when we eventually settle down and start a family (private vs. public school, education IRAs, shipping kids to the grandparents during the summer for a few weeks so we can have "couple time" and travel).

I think it really depends on where you look for it's effect on previous generations. For example, dating in an urban area vs dating in a rural area. Back then, people were looking for more of a companionate marriage rather than a passionate marriage you see now. Aziz Anzari and Eric Klinenberg highlight it well in the book, "Modern Romance". Really great read!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's interesting that you mention that UMC/UC men want their GF's or dates to be dressed up all the time. I can't speak for the preferences of individual men but I've noticed that many of the UMC women of my age tend to be the ones who are often most dressed down, casual looking but still presentable. Dressing up too much especially if the situation doesn't warrant it seems to be the preserve of Lower Middle Class or Working Class (UK speak for high/low prole). This might be a UK or a college age thing though and this is purely my own observation. Maybe that in itself is a class thing, having the appearance of a 'dressed down/causal look' but still looking decent.

Apart from that I am also looking forward to the discussion on this topic, I find it quite fascinating!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

i find the same in australia. UMC men and women here tend to dress in high quality but casual clothes most of the time. definitely not showy with brands or too much jewelery. simple and understated, but well maintained (hair, skincare, nails, etc)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

They also tend to be quite a bit more promiscuous, men and especially women. I am still genuinely surprised about the lack of concern many of them show for their sexuality or bodies with all the heavy drinking and slutting around they do, I guess I had associated wealth and a prestigious education with class and restraint? Maybe it's to do with a lack of appreciation of consequences as I imagine having a comfortable upbringing would have shielded them from this?

Not all are like this of course but a sizeable majority are. I do wonder how things will pan out for them, though I can't imagine it having too big of a consequence on them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

ok, this i haven't seen. in my experience the UMC i know and associate with are far less promiscuous that their working class counterparts

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i came from a comfortable UMC family, but i've also dated in the wealthy circles and had a similar experience to you. it was lovely to experience the serious "fine things" in life that would seem a little obscene to you or i, but i just felt a cultural mis-match that didn't sit well with me.

my SO came from a fairly poor family. he had a good education but grew up with a single mother on welfare. he learnt to thrive and through years of hard work has put himself firmly into the UMC. i love that he's so resourceful and clever with his money, as well as practical - traits he claims he picked up out of necessity through his rough childhood.

so while i can't understand what it's like to have been through the kind of upbringing he had, i can respect and admire his resourcefulness and intelligence in pulling himself out of it.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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