TheRedArchive

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Hello, ladies. I haven't been active on this account in quite some time but thought I would drop by in the hopes of getting a few words of wisdom. I'm on mobile and can't tag this as an advice post from my app.

Age/familiarity with RPW: I'm 26 and was an endorsed contributor at Red Pill Women. I started following that sub several years ago.

Relationship status: married

Problem: My husband has been having issues with depression and doesn't seem to have interest in seeking help. We both have histories of depression and he seems to have gotten into a pattern of trying to "fix" me so that he can avoid thinking about his own struggles with mental health. He has never been the sort of person to want to talk a lot about feelings, and I have no desire to change who he is or try to feminize his communication style. I know that I'm not a doctor and can't fix his emotional issues for him, so I have no intentions of playing therapist. I would just like to maintain a harmonious marriage while getting through this difficult time. I feel that our closeness is seriously lacking and I'm constantly worried about asking him for absolutely anything, even if it's something tiny and simple, because he always seems so stressed out. We are having a harder time acting as a team than we have in the past. His depression seems to sapped him of his desire to steer the ship, so to speak. All I want is to be helpful to him and just have no idea how.

How I have contributed to the problem: This is a complex issue, the pattern of which started quite some time ago and has only recently become a more acute problem. Over the last year and a half or so I have gone through a very tumultuous medical journey filled with tests and meds and side effects that contributed to me not being a good partner. One of my medications ended up putting me into almost complete psychosis and I know that it was incredibly hard for Husband to deal with such a challenge and not be able to count on me to be in my right mind. Only in the last few months have things finally become stable with my treatment plan, but I recognize that there are months and months of hurt that need to be worked through.

I sort of answered how long this has been a problem above.

What I have done to resolve the problem: I've been focusing on catching up and consistently keeping up with my basic housewife duties (making sure he always has clean clothes for work, staying on top of the finances, preparing his work lunches and dinner, and keeping the house reasonably orderly), as well as putting forth more effort into caring for myself. I thought at the very least if I took the responsibility of caring for my health and asked him for absolute minimum help it could leave him the mental energy to focus on himself and what makes him happiest. I've tried asking what I can do to help him feel more supported, but I never got consistent answers and know that it just makes him even more stressed out to be badgered into talking about his bad day and questioned about what I should be doing.

We have been together for 5 years.

There aren't really issues in our bedroom life. We both initiate about fifty percent of the time, and have had sex three to five times per week as an average throughout our entire relationship. We are both open to each other's fantasies and so far I've never denied any request to try something new. I will note, however, that my Husband is not one of those men who can have all his problems and cares taken away with a blowjob. He finds it disrespectful and like I don't take him seriously if I offer sex when he's in a bad mood.

I should probably also mention that I'm disabled (narcolepsy and Ehlers Danlos Syndrome), so that has an effect on my options for physical things I can do for him.


[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Ineverforgetmytowel4 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I really want to second the specific questions thing. Depression can feel overwhelming and amorphous, so amorphous questions can become overwhelming. Asking specifics or giving specific options can be great manageable footholds, like "do you want company or do you want to be alone right now?" Or "do you want chicken or tacos for dinner?" --- breaking things down into manageable chunks as much as possible.

That being said-- you and your SO are in a really rough spot, and I wish I had a solution for you, in lieu of that, I'm glad you're able to find support here.

[–]Bakerofpie 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You know, this is a HUGE problem for me when I'm depressed - I get so overwhelmed by too many questions and need things kept simple. I try really hard to put myself in Hub's shoes and look at issues from his perspective, so I can't believe I would overlook something like that. We don't really believe in the "treat others how you want to be treated" thing because we don't like to be treated the same way, but I feel terrible that I didn't piece this together sooner myself. That's a habit I'll have to make sure to put in place immediately, at least when he's under the amount of stress he has been lately. Thanks for putting it that way. I know keeping any questions I have for him as stress-free as possible isn't going to make his depression go away, but I recognize that about the best I can do right now is take care of my own mental health and do everything I possibly can not to make his worse. Any little bit of stress I can avoid causing I would like to.

[–]Bakerofpie 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I wrote out a whole response and was about to submit when my laptop crashed! I don't have the energy to type everything out all over again, but this was very helpful. I was stressing him out by asking too many questions like "what can I do for you," and saw questions as the enemy and an automatic burden on him, but phrasing it really simply and asking mostly either/or questions would help me just to know I'm spending my time where it's wanted/needed/appreciated instead of just bothering him or expecting him to make decisions on what is supposed to be my area (household things). I'm going to put more effort into thinking of how I raise my questions and make sure I'm not shifting a burden onto him that doesn't need to be.

Luckily he has acknowledged his tendency to put my problems at the forefront to avoid facing his own and recognizes it's something he doesn't like about himself. He's one of the most intelligent and diligent people I have ever met when it comes to self improvement, so as long as I am keeping up my end of the deal all I can do is wait. I can tell him all day long that he doesn't need to watch over my shoulder to make sure I'm doing everything I need to, but in the end only my actions are going to change any minds.

Thank you again for the reply! You've given me some really good things to think about! :)

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Bakerofpie 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's really good that he recognizes it but that won't negate the longterm effort and vigilance this kind of problem can call for...it becomes an entrenched part of your relationship dynamic really quickly and is a very slow to be undone.

You're right. In the grand scheme of things I'm glad we acknowledged and started talking about this problem four years in, because while it had already become a part of our relationship dynamic, I'm hopeful that since we recognized it earlier it will be a little bit easier than if we hadn't noticed the habit until twenty years into the marriage. It's an uphill battle for sure, but I've noticed it sloooooowwwly getting better in the past year. We just have a long way to go. Which is one of those things I can't do a whole lot to help him fix, but he's got some books on the subject at least and I'm hoping he ends up talking to a professional about it but not going to try to pressure him.

And he doesn't have a work out routine or anything, but he's extremely active. The man rarely sits still for more than two minutes and most of his hobbies require some level of physical exertion. Luckily the importance of exercise was stressed to him starting from a really young age. It took me longer to get started, but I've noticed that doing my physical therapy workouts in the morning always make the rest of my day a little more productive.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Hey Baker, welcome back!

I just wanted to say that you are both dealing with a tremendous amount not only as individuals, but also as a couple. Your various physical and emotional ailments have really limited your ability to be a full-fledged wife in your marriage, and at the same time, your husband also struggles with certain things.

I'm glad you are doing better, but for some time now your health has been a great source of concern and strain. It's great that you are finding ways to engage more, and contribute directly to your role as his spouse, but it sounds like there are (possibly always) going to be severe limitations. Your health is better than it has been, but I'm sure he still feels a tremendous amount of hesitation, stress, and responsibility for you.

I think this is a situation that we sometimes talk about - there are limitations to what being a RPW can fix. I encourage you to keep making an effort, and improving...but I don't think this is something that will be resolved simply by tending house and making food.

I think the best thing you can do is continue to look after your physical and emotional health and be happy. I don't normally recommend therapy to people because I don't think it's all that useful in many cases - but this may be one of the exceptions.

It's great that your bedroom life hasn't fizzled out, and that you both make an effort in that area.

You both struggle with depression, and I think the most important thing for both of you should be to improve your emotional well-being. You can't take care of each other fully or effectively if you are both struggling personally.

[–][deleted]  (21 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

I think the first step is simply for them both to get their depression under control and improve their individual health. I don't think there's any reason to try and fix a relationship when both of them are so drastically hampered by their personal issues.

I don't see this as something 'RP' can fix because there are significant physical and emotional problems involved that go far beyond being a good FO or having a RP relationship.

[–][deleted]  (18 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They both had depression prior to meeting each other and getting married. OP is not the cause of his depression, although a case can definitely be made that living with a very sick spouse with a multitude of health concerns is definitely taxing, and her loss of sanity/stability undoubtedly added to his sense of responsibility and strain.

User's have offered all advice that can be put forth. OP has things to work on - no one suggested otherwise. This is a marriage between two people with a lot of personal issues and shared issues.

Not really sure why you think people aren't being honest with her.

She needs to focus on getting her depression under control, so does he. They both have a lot of work to do (which she knows).

[–]Bakerofpie 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't believe I was late to the party on my own post! I never saw the comments before they were deleted, but from your replies it sounds like it wouldn't have been helpful to me anyway.

While I can't see the context, I agree with everything you've said. We have to work on ourselves and our personal issues before we can really move forward in our marriage. It's an unhealthy habit to place all of the blame for anyone's mental health on another individual. I don't believe it is his responsibility to "make me happy," nor does he believe it's my responsibility to do so for him. Neither of us are experts in psychology or neuropsychology, so I know I have no place to tell him exactly what he needs to do to get help, as what works for me may not be best for him (and in the end it's something he needs to do for himself).

After reading and considering responses I think I've realized that some of this could be me causing my own anxiety because of my guilt about how poorly I treated him when I had the worst-case-scenario side effects on the med I was prescribed. I don't remember most of the "episode," but I know that it him hard, and I can't expect him to just get over it because I said I was sorry. I don't at all believe this is the root cause of his depression, but it undoubtedly made things considerably harder on him for awhile. What's most important is keeping up with the good habits I've made lately, for my own sanity and wellbeing as well as his.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Furthermore, OP has replied:

https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWives/comments/4jti4c/how_to_handle_a_depressed_husband/d3a6q9t

Not sure what thread you're looking at - but there's a lot of honest feedback being given. Just because we're not cussing her out or making her feel like sh-t doesn't mean the comments are feeding into delusions or denying the reality of the situation.

If your 'advice' boils down to 'get a divorce' then that's not exactly useful. OP would still have depression, still struggle with physical problems etc. They both need to focus on improving themselves first, and that will make improving the overall relationship easier.

[–][deleted]  (14 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

You said people aren't being honest or giving her useful advice, implying the sub is shallow ineffective, and that OP didn't reply.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make, or what 'rationalizations' I (or other users) made.

/u/BeautifulSpaceCadet wrote an excellent response, as did /u/whitebunny87 and /u/TempestTcup among others.

[–][deleted]  (12 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

You have explained nothing, and have failed to answer the questions I asked. You can either explain what you mean, or move on from this exchange entirely.

Stop confusing you're inability to make a clear point with this fabricated idea that I'm somehow invested in not understanding you.

[–][deleted]  (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]plein_oldearly 40s male♂ 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I've tried asking what I can do to help him feel more supported, but I never got consistent answers

This seems like a good step on your part. Maybe continue to ask this periodically.

Well, if your husband constantly seems stressed out, perhaps you could offer to give him a shoulder rub, or something of that nature. It doesn't have to be sexual. Some form of "touch" that communicates intimacy and support and also helps him let go of stress.

In some cultures, I've heard that family members massage each other daily. Like the wife massages the husband for a few minutes, or a grandchild massages a grandparent.

It's also a way of relating and communicating that doesn't require discussions.

[–]Bakerofpie 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

He hates most massages! I think he's the only person I've ever met who isn't into massage. It's not exactly my "go to" when thinking of how I can soothe and relax him, but he does seem to like hand and scalp massages. He also has trouble falling asleep at night sometimes, so tonight I think I'm going to try out giving him a scalp and hand massage to see if it helps him fall asleep more peacefully.

It's also a way of relating and communicating that doesn't require discussions.

I didn't really think about that, but very true. Thank you for your help!

[–]plein_oldearly 40s male♂ 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Glad if I was helpful.

Hand and scalp massages — sounds good to me! I used to have a book by a guy who only did scalp massages. Well, head and neck. That was his whole specialty. There's something very profound about it. Another guy I know used to say the head and neck are the most important parts of the body that needs massage, in his opinion. And the hand supposedly is a meeting place for many acupuncture meridians. As are the feet.

I also heard someone say once that, on a psychological level, we relate to our bodies the same way we relate to our spouse. So if someone is having difficulties in their marriage, they might also be having difficulty relaxing and feeling good in their body. Perhaps their body feels like a burden or something they don't trust.

Maybe that's overthinking it a bit, but I do believe it's all connected somehow... Good luck!

[–]Bakerofpie 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I also heard someone say once that, on a psychological level, we relate to our bodies the same way we relate to our spouse.

Somewhat off topic, but it's interesting you mention this because Husband and I were talking just the other day about how he used to really hate massages of any kind (I couldn't even gently rub my palm along his back) because all it would do is tickle him when we first got together. As he learned to trust me more he started liking massages where he's least likely to be ticklish like the calves and forearms etc. So that actually makes a lot of sense. Either way if he requests a back rub I'll take it as a good sign.

Thanks :)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I dont have any advice, i just wanted to say "HI!" and nice to se eyou again

[–]Bakerofpie 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hi! I missed you guys :)

[–]TempestTcup4 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Hi Bakerofpie! We've missed you!

I'm so sorry about all of the troubles you are going through with your health and well-being; that is so difficult to deal with, for you and your husband. I don't really have any good suggestions about the depression; I have struggles myself when my husband is down (he lost a good friend recently, so I have been dealing with sort of a similar but very temporary situation), and I feel helpless trying to help him through this situation.

What might help, if you feel up to it, is to join us on the IRC when you feel like things are getting too much. Just having other people to unload on might really help you, plus there might be other women there who have experience dealing with these sort of things.

The only other thing I can suggest, since he isn't inclined to seek other help, is to start giving him natural mood enhancers like Omega-3 when he is low and calming minerals like magnesium glycinate and zinc when he is stressed (at night it helps with sleep).

He was your rock when you were at your worst, so be his rock for a little while. Go about your chores and be as cheerful as possible, and just be there for him. Then when you get anxious and feel like things are getting to be too much for you, come chat with us and maybe that will help. At the very least, it might take your mind off of things :)

[–]Bakerofpie 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think it would be helpful to talk to some outside parties about the situation sometimes. I know there are few things worse than making it all about you with a depressed person and I don't want to put pressure on him to play the role of Happy Person if he isn't feeling it, so just being able to vent my feelings of frustration and helplessness to someone who isn't him should be helpful at least to me. Thank you! It's good to be back :)

[–]Kittenkajira 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Do stop by the irc! I'm a productive, happy narcoleptic and love to give advice. :)

[–]Bakerofpie 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow, I still haven't met any other narcoleptics out in the wild yet! :)

[–]Kittenkajira 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've met a few in real life! I'm not as active on online narcoleptic boards as I used to be (those folks can be depressing) but I still have a few narcoleptic friends I keep touch with.

[–]sugarcrush 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think part of it might be that you were experiencing your difficulties for so long, it's possible that it is going to take him just as long to adjust back to normal. He was experiencing high levels of stress for an entire year and a half, and he is probably still worried that you could slip back into that state. Hopefully, he will see that you really are stable now and he can relax again.

Did he ever take medication for depression in the past or is that something he would be open to? Also, how's his lifestyle... Eating healthy, work/life balance, exercise, and getting sunlight every day?

[–]Bakerofpie 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think part of it might be that you were experiencing your difficulties for so long, it's possible that it is going to take him just as long to adjust back to normal.

While of course I want everything to be good and happy and wonderful again, logically you are right. I can't expect him to just bounce back immediately from me just about losing my mind. I'm just going to have to keep working extra hard on myself until he sees that he can depend on me again.

He takes medication for depression, and started maybe four years ago or so. It seems to have no effect anymore but he still takes them and hasn't told his doctor that it's no longer helping his depression. I haven't asked him if he's considered talking to the doctor about it and changing his meds, but I figured if he were open to switching things up he would have brought it up to his doctor already. I don't want to pressure him but maybe I'll ask him if he thinks it would be helpful or if he would prefer to just go the lifestyle change route. He actually lives a pretty healthy lifestyle already. He doesn't really work out, but he's very very active and prefers healthy food to junk.

[–]hyperrreal 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey, something that has helped me with similar psychological issues is an approach called Internal Family Systems Theory.

Here and here have some basic info. But I recommend getting the book called Internal Family Systems Therapy by Richard Schwartz. It's written for psychologists, but doesn't make it any less impactful.

[–]SuperSlavisWife 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Depression is not always just emotional. Sometimes it is what is called endogenous depression: a depression caused by altered neurological pathways in the brain or hormonal imbalances. Endogenous depression is often present in some level for a person's whole life, but sometimes it just forms on its own for no reason, or from a trigger, and spirals out of the parameters of exogenous (environment-caused] depression.

Perhaps the reason why he doesn't want to talk about his emotions, avoids therapy and just wants to help you, is because he is pretty certain that he can't help himself? Talk to him about it on an unemotional level, about the tasks he finds hard to do, about the things he thinks of, about the numb episodes. Talk about the physical issues that can arise from depression. Suggest he goes to see a professional to consider endogenous depression. It's awkward because not many people even know that depression can be a physical illness as well as a mental one, but it's important if he wants to be in peak health for him to know about medications, supplements and therapy techniques which may work on the physical side and keep him strong and focused.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i'll copy-paste a reply i made to this post some time ago. full disclosure - this relationship did not work out. he some bigger problems than his depression, but i did find that these tips were able to help him through it at times.

this is a tough one. i think depression is particularly tough on guys because it affects their sense of worth and masculinity so deeply.

my guy has suffered from similar downswings in the past, and seems to have figured things out pretty well. he describes it as this impossibly irrational mental state where your brain will twist anything into negativity and self-hatred. he's dealt with it enough now that he can feel it coming on, and has a very strict plan of attack to stop it before it gets out of control.

does your SO have something similar? things that have helped drag him out of it in the past? for my guy it goes like this:

recognize that this is a temporary state, and whatever bullshit your brain tries to convince you of right now simply isn't true. don't trust your thoughts and feelings at all until you're feeling normal again.

recognize that it's a chemical thing, and take steps to rectify this. for my guy this means eating well (red meat, veggies, no sugar), taking a serotonin supplement (5-HTP, please look into it) and working out every day. his workouts during these periods are very intense and aggressive. sprints, boxing, etc. anything that physically hurts him and reminds him of his strength and masculinity.

logging moods and actions in a notebook. this gives him a bit of distance from the headspace he's in, and allows him to look back on it later to see what works and what doesn't.

basically, he's turned it into a very analytical thing and where he used to fall into melancholy for months at a time, he now deals with it and is back to normal after a couple of days.

perhaps when he's out of his current funk, you can gently suggest coming up with a similar kind of plan? having structure and goals can be very useful in these times.

as for what you can do for him right now, i would suggest allowing him space to rebuild his confidence and self-worth as a man. it's tempting to crawl into bed with him and commiserate, but i think what men really need in these times is to know that you still trust and admire them. if you start babying him (driving for him, writing his essays), i fear you're going to fall into a cycle where he loses his strength and self-respect. instead of thinking about what you can do to make his life easier, think about what you can do to remind him that he is a strong, capable man that you trust to care for himself.

practical things you can do right now:

cook for him. cook healthy, delicious, nutrient-rich man foods. steak, veggies, casseroles, stews, roasts, etc. i would stay away from typical "comfort foods" like cake and pasta and so on

compliment him sincerely and often. check out his butt, grab his muscles. swoon, flirt, laugh at his jokes sex sex sex sex sex. it's hard for a man to be depressed when his woman is begging for it. go ultra submissive and let him have his way with you. enjoy it. show him how hot he gets you

keep some perspective. take his complaints seriously, but don't turn it into a bigger deal that it is. remind him that it's temporary and that as soon as his brain chemistry gets back to normal, things will look better again. give him a bit of space, be present and available, but don't fuss over him. he isn't a baby, don't make him feel like one. remember that right now his brain is fucking with him, and telling him he's incapable. do not play into this. he needs you right now to be his "logic" and remind him that he's doing just fine.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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