TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

57

A Comprehensive Guide To Vetting Men (self.RedPillWives)

submitted by Camille11325

A Comprehensive Guide To Vetting Men

This post was written with /u/PhantomDream09. It can also be found in the Essential Posts section of the wiki (along with the best RPW content to date!). We had a blast writing together and we encourage other users to collaborate on projects for the subreddit :)

Does this dating advice sound familiar to you?

  • “Don’t worry about the future, you’re young and have plenty of time!”

  • “Just go with the flow!”

  • “Sleep with a man as soon as you feel passionate about him, if he likes you he will stick around!”

  • “You’ll meet ‘the one’ when the time is right!”

Each statement gives women a false sense of security and misrepresents what it takes to obtain lasting, exclusive commitment. Female sexual strategy is more than just looking good and showing up to the right place at the right time. Anyone interested in a long term relationship or marriage with a quality man must prioritise this goal and put in the requisite time and effort. Not only should you make sure that you are the best woman possible, you must actively search for the best man possible.

Women date to filter through eligible men and find who they want to spend the rest of their lives with. Sexual attraction and having a connection are extremely important, but a relationship will not succeed if arousal is the only factor you base your decisions on. If you have an idea of what you need and what you can’t handle, you will be able to date with a purpose instead of wasting time with men who are fun, but not viable long term options.

What is vetting?

To vet a man is to actively figure out if he has the qualities that you want, as well any deal breakers. Not only should he have a compatible personality, the two of you should share the same goals and vision of the future.

Why is vetting important?

It’s your first line of defense against ending up plated, strung along, alpha widowed, or tied to a man you really can’t stand. Properly vetting reduces your chances of needlessly increasing your N count with men that have zero intention of building a future with you. It is in every single woman’s best interest to fully vet each man she dates before agreeing to be in an exclusive relationship with him.

Am I shallow or entitled if I vet a man before commitment?

No, it is smart to have standards and adhere to them. The vetting process takes the entire person into account, not just a handful of traits. A comprehensive assessment of someone’s compatibility not only with your personality but with your life goals is essential for future happiness.

Does taking the time to vet a man mean that you don’t like him very much?

Absolutely not! In fact, putting in the effort to be more selective with who you commit to demonstrates how seriously you take relationships, and how much you value the man you ultimately end up with. If you sleep with every man who catches your eye, each encounter is worth less. A man knows your commitment (and sex!) means something if you don’t give it away easily.

If you are single or in the early stages of dating, grab a notebook and a pen and follow the steps below!

First, reflect on what you truly desire. How soon do you want to get married? How many children would you like to have? What goals and milestones would you like to achieve yourself and with your SO? What lifestyle and relationship dynamic do you thrive in? Keep these answers in mind as you think about the traits that your future SO should have.

Next, you must distinguish between wants and needs. Needs are the essentials, the things that you must take into consideration and cannot compromise on. Some characteristics to consider when assessing what you need in a man:

  • Age - An older man is more likely to be established in his career, mature, ready to settle down, and secure in himself. But he may have baggage from past relationships, and it could be harder to relate to each other. If he is younger, there may be less pressure and more fun. However, you may fall into mothering role and/or find it hard to respect him. If you are in your early 20s, men in your age range may still be figuring themselves out, struggling financially or not interested in settling down. If you are in your 30s or beyond, you will be competing with younger and more attractive women if you go after your peers.

  • Socioeconomic Status - It makes the most sense to focus on men of the same or neighboring class. He’ll have similar values, expectations, behaviour, and more. Another benefit is that you’ll be able to navigate social situations without feeling uncomfortable or pressured. It will also be easier to meet men and go on dates, since you’ll be in the same area and enjoy the same things. Of course some women can find success without considering class, just be realistic about how well you will be able to handle a major shift either for you or your man.

  • Ethnicity and Culture - Similar backgrounds will lead to more harmony. The closer your cultures, the lower the chance for conflict when it comes to questions of lifestyle, childrearing, relationship dynamics and more. This doesn’t mean that you can’t look outside of your own ethnicity and/or culture, but you have to consider how well you two will actually mesh when it is time to build a life together.

  • Religion - Both of your religious backgrounds are important, even if neither of you are currently religious. This ties into the importance of culture as a whole - the upbringing of a Catholic woman is completely different from the upbringing of a Muslim man, even if they are both Americans of the same race, class, and location. If you want to practise your faith, be sure to find a man who supports that or at least won’t interfere. And don’t assume that you can convert him in the future!

  • Marriage - If you want to get married, make sure the man you are dating is interested in marriage before you commit to him! He doesn’t have to say that he specifically wants to marry you, just get a general sense of his life goals while you are in the early dating stage. Don’t come on too strongly! There is no reason for you to compromise on the subject of marriage, so make sure this is a top priority.

  • Dominance Level - Attraction is non negotiable. You cannot ignore how attracted you are to a man, or how much you respect him. If you do, then you’re just firing randomly in the dark and hoping that when you land a man, he doesn’t end up being too dominant, or too passive for long-term happiness and stability. Marriage is forever so don’t commit to someone you won’t be able to devote yourself to entirely. Read up on dominance levels and dominance thresholds and reflect on what traits you value in a man. Pay attention and screen for the right combination of alpha and beta traits.

  • Children - You should be clear about how many kids you want, and know if the man you are seeing is on the same page as you. Don’t hope that you can convince him to want kids in the future, or to give up his dreams of having a large family if that is the case.

Other characteristics you may consider in the “needs” category:

  • Education - When the man has as much, or more education than the woman, it allows the woman to look up to and trust her man. This does not mean reverse scenario cannot yield great results. Every woman must know for themselves how important this aspect is in relation to other qualities.

  • Political/Ideological Affiliation(s) - if you are passionate about politics, philosophy, culture, or similar fields, you’ll want to prioritise finding someone with similar views. Most men interested in traditional relationships are on the right side of the spectrum, and are not interested in debating their beliefs.

  • Desired living location - If you are tied to your current location, limit the men you date to other locals. Long-distance relationships are likely to fail for many reasons, one of the most common being that neither party is fully willing to uproot their life and move to be with the other person. If the thought of moving for a man makes you uneasy, then keep that in mind as you go out on dates. If someone has close ties to their family, halfway across the world, consider how that will affect your future together (frequent trips to visit his relatives, alternative holidays etc).

  • Employment Status and Type of Job - When the man makes at least as much money (if not more) than the woman, the woman has as an easier time respecting him, as he is the ‘stronger’ partner financially. This is a generalisation of course but you should know ahead of time what your preferences are. Other things to consider when it comes to a man’s job is how busy he will be, if travel is required, and the level of danger tied to his position. It does not make you a gold digger to include a man’s career in the vetting process. If you want to build a life with someone you need to have a clear idea of what your future together will look like.

  • Appearance - Major deal breakers only at this stage! For example, you may say you’ll love a man at any weight - but if you shudder at the thought of having sex with a 300 pound husband, then you should be vetting for someone with positive health/body habits.

These are just general things to keep in mind, and it is vital that every woman personally identifies the basic things that will lead to harmony within the relationship. Once you've identified your criteria, only see men if they meet these basic standards.

Wants are optional; they are pleasant add-ons. You can live without them, but they’re really nice to have. A lot of women can get carried away with this category, especially if they are unrealistic about their personal dating worth.

Aiming too high can lead you to high value men, but they will not be interested in anything long term or exclusive. It is true that some men are not open to a relationship (or marriage) until a woman comes along that truly changes his perspective about things. Understand that chasing those men includes an increased level of risk. (Read here or here to see why it is not in your best interest to rely on “plate” status as a dating strategy).

As you think about what you want in a man, evaluate yourself as well. Would the man you are describing be willing to commit to you, as you are? If not, why not?

While it is good to be firm about what you need, and what is a deal breaker, be flexible when it comes to everything else. You may think you want someone who plays the guitar, but find a deeper connection with a hunter!

Now, on to deal breakers! This list is merely a jumping off point as it is okay to not care about or even prefer any of these traits, just know what you are getting into, and accept that your choices have consequences. Here are some common red flags:

  • Smokes cigarettes
  • Excessive drinking or drug use
  • Incompatible diets (e.g. he is a militant raw vegan)
  • Poor financial management skills
  • Criminal history or current criminal activity
  • History of infidelity
  • Previous marriage(s)
  • Has kids with another woman
  • Has a difficult time holding down a job
  • Has a history of gambling problems/overwhelming debt
  • Hot headed/short temper - prone to overreact
  • Serious health concerns
  • Overly sensitive and/or emotionally feminine
  • Lack of ambition
  • Clinginess
  • Previous bisexual or homosexual experiences
  • Unstable, dramatic or hate-filled relationships with his friends or family

When it comes to dealbreakers and red flags, keep in mind that everyone is flawed. Don’t next a guy for being human! In addition, avoid trying to find a carbon copy of yourself. If you love to read and he loves sports, that doesn’t mean you two are a bad match.

What do you do if a man you are dating isn’t right for you?

If you have only been on a few dates, you can easily put an end to things by not reaching out and declining the next invitation he extends. If you are somewhere in the casual dating phase where you are regularly seeing each other but not exclusive (note: this is not the same as being a plate), it would be better to deliver the news the next time he calls you on the phone, or even in person if things were close to becoming official. There is no need to give an exhaustive list of all the reasons you two won’t work out, and it is in your best interest to cut off all contact afterwards. Don’t give him false hope or suggest that you remain friends. You don’t need to be cruel but there is no obligation for you to coddle him or hide your true feelings.

There are a lot of moving pieces to the vetting process. You have to know what you want and need (as well as the difference between the two!), what you bring to the table, and major deal-breakers. If you are dating without a plan, then you are delaying your chances to meet a quality man you are compatible with, and increasing your likelihood for stress, panic and loneliness in the future. Keep the ideas outlined above in mind and you will have an easier time entering into the right relationship!

P.S. For information on dating strategies tailored to your age/life stage, read this! If you are interested in online dating, take a look at this guide!


[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

LAWD

What kind of gospel truth kind of post is this??? I hope it's added to the wiki. Thank you so much!

I consider several of these things when dating and meeting guys. MY personal issue has always been ignoring flags because of feels. I would have a gut feeling or know for a fact I wouldn't like something, and ignore it because I started to like the guy. Things like excessive drinking, talking down to me, overly emotional, too cozy with women, etc etc. These flags would point to very clear differences and when I would finally acknowledge them, it would be too late. We'd break up, or have bad fights or whatever.

Now, if i have a gut feeling, I trust it. I ask important questions early when dating, vs just "waiting to see what happens". Which, for me, is bullshit. Know on some level what you're getting into. Don't date someone who isn't compatible with you. That's a waste of time.

Also, just for those familiar questions, women who tell you "you have plenty of time" usually are single or unhappy in their marriages. I'm 27 years old, 28 in a few months. I don't have plenty of time. Anyone who says that doesn't know me or have my best interests at heart.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent points, thank you for sharing your experiences! And yes this post is in the wiki now :)

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd like to add the "son test". If your unsure where on the spectrum (need, want, red flag, deal breaker) a certain trait is, imagine if your son had that trait and that could clarify some of the feelings in the way of your decision.

For example, say if education is very important to you and you meet a man who never went to college or maybe only got his GED. But some how he started his own business and makes tons of money now. You may be able to rationalize it like "oh he's doing well for himself despite not having an education that makes him even more of a catch!" But if the idea of having a son not go to college is horrific to you, you probably won't be satisfied by the man in the long term. You may find yourself seeing yourself as superior because of the education factor even if he's earning the majority of the money. You could start to feel ashamed bringing him around your educated family. You may start to resent him for not having your values.

This could be applied to any of the needs, wants, red flags, and deal breakers that Camille mentioned.

[–]fhigurethisout3 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Fantastic article. If only this was given to all women in their teens!!

One small note though:

Socioeconomic Status - It makes the most sense to focus on men of the same or neighboring class. He’ll have similar values, expectations, behaviour, and more.

I am from a wealthy family. It made me more dependent and cushy until I moved out against my mom's will lol.

Anyway, the men from similar families in my neighbourhood are generally godawful. Parents throw money at them and they don't know how to manage it. They buy fancy cars and inherit everything and they just have no concept of how reality works. They work at daddy's business and they'll probably inherit his job. They don't actually have any drive because everything is handed to them.

That isn't to say there aren't hardworking men from rich families---there are, if the parents are on top of their parenting game---I would just say beware of limiting your dating by socioeconomic status.

I think it's good to aim for men who know what hard work means and have a good grasp of reality. They know the value of money--- they save, they invest, and they don't spent wildly on pointless things (huge red flag imo).

[–]Camille11325[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Your personal experience with those men is not a universal one. It's great that you were able to evaluate them and pinpoint the traits that you preferred as well as the ones you could do without. However, not everyone has the same view and our advice was made so that it could apply to everyone.

Class cannot be ignored and it plays a large role in shaping your personality, values, and expectations about your partner. If a woman is honest about the range of men she can realistically go for, she can tailor her girl game to target that group specifically.

/u/phantomdream09 and I made this guide to encourage women to set their own standards. Again, it is great that you know what you want and don't want, but don't assume that everyone shares the same view.

[–]fhigurethisout2 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree. I think it is a wonderful guide, and I should not be using personal anecdotes.

If a woman is happy to have this type of man, then that is absolutely her business.

However, such traits are fairly unattractive to a large number of women, so I believe it is worth pointing out regardless.

I never said that class should be ignored completely--I only meant that women should exert caution when using this as a limiting factor. I apologize if that wasn't clear.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

We only listed a few possible deal breakers/red flags, we didn't mean to imply that our examples were the only things to look out for. There was a lot to cover in the post, and so much that we didn't even touch on. If you want to write up a guide on red flags and deal breakers specifically let me know :)

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

This is a fantastic post, thanks for this! I've been wondering about this specific topic for quite some while!

When you talk about religious backgrounds, are you referring to a person's upbringing and how it may have influenced their personality or behavioural habits? Or their religious beliefs itself?

For example I've been brought up in a very conservative religious environment but I no longer believe in that specific religion. However I've retained many of the conservative values and over the years I've noticed how different I am to a lot of my peers, and how I gravitate to similarly conservative people. The problem I find is that guys who share a similar outlook to me and have similar mindsets tend to be religious, which I find really off-putting since I am in no way religious myself. Is there a way around this, or should I look for similar conservative but non-religious people?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Thank you, I loved working with /u/PhantomDream09 on this post!

Yes we mean both the way that religion shaped his upbringing as well as his actual beliefs. In your specific case, it would be best to find a man who is not religious but shares the same worldview. Sure there are conservative and religious men out there who would be okay with a non religious wife, but not only is that a small pool of men, most of them would prefer a woman who shared their faith. You also have to consider how well you'll get along with his family, since religious people are off putting to you.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I see. It's not that I necessarily find religious people off-putting, it's more that I find religious people of my parents' religion off putting since it reminds me of being practically forced to follow it with no leeway growing up. I do wonder if these feelings of distaste are some sort of leftover rebellion :S

I actually quite like the idea of following customs and colourful traditions and bringing up my children within a large family network, so I wouldn't mind bringing them up in other less restrictive religions (if my husband was brought up with it and wanted to) but I don't know how feasible this idea actually is since I wouldn't have the relevant upbringing other women of that faith will have had, and it's all a hypothetical.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for writing out this detailed reply! This makes a lot of sense and the last paragraph resonates with me a lot. It's important to remember that people are on a sliding scale with regards to religiosity and my childhood experience probably isn't the norm for most sane people!

However it's difficult because in this specific case pre-marital inter-sex mingling is really frowned upon in my parents' religion, let alone 'dating' which is pretty much forbidden. It makes things so much more difficult when dating with someone from this religion (you could probably figure out which one!) because even if the person themselves are a good match, there's all this sneaking around and the stress that comes with it. I often wonder if it's even worth it, and instead think it might be better to avoid this altogether when you're not yet invested? After all it makes things easier when theres only one set of baggage rather than two, no? :S

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I do avoid it altogether. It's only recently I've met guys who seem, from their behaviour, to be as non-religious/non-practicing as I am in the first place (but where brought up in the same religion), but often times even they start to feel guilty after a while or understandably don't want to end up upsetting their parents so start to become more and more religious! I think it's better to forgo all of this altogether!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Also how do you screen for the right dominance level and the right combination of alpha/beta traits for yourself if you've never actually had a partner before and not much experience to draw from? I understand from the other post that it will depend on how you feel around him i.e. scared/afraid, or can't respect him etc, but these things take a long time to become apparent no?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You'll be able to tell immediately and you'll know as you spend more time getting to know the guy. If you really don't have a clue now, think about what sorts of fictional men you are drawn to; see if there are any commonalities. I can include a fuller answer to this question in a future post on dominance and dynamics!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see :) I'm often drawn to the powerful, almost sociopathic ones (think Frank Underwood from House of Cards), not sure what that says about me!

Oh yes please that'd be a good read :)

[–]delores_rose 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is simply amazing, thank you so, so much! I find myself drawn to a man who I find extremely attractive, we have similar interests and fantastic conversations. It would be so tempting to push forward and ignore the practical aspect of being in a LTR that is marriage bound. Ladies, if you are in the early stages, do not get swept away by the "woo" factor, keep your goals in mind and those emotions (and hormones) under control until you are reasonable sure he would be potential husband material. Take it from a 35 year old woman who has had 5 LTRs that lead to nowhere other than breakups and moving van: attraction and common interests do make a perfect match! You can't ignore a temper, commitment issues, drinking problem or lazy attitude because you like the same bands or are super attracted to each others and have amazing conversations. Please do yourselves a favor and follow this advice. I wish I had it when I was younger, trust me.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you /u/PhantomDream09 and I had so much fun writing this post! Excellent advice, I know everyone will take it to heart!

P.S. Update your flair :)

[–]lackadaisicalily 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Very good post! Especially the religious and political sections.

Another one might be their sexual past. If they have had many partners and never any relationships.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks :) Yes sexual history and relationship history are important but there are so many factors and variables to consider, that there could be an entire post just on that! It's tricky to suggest anything other than "pay attention and know what your preferences are" because each woman has her own boundaries. This is definitely a key area to consider when vetting a man, so glad you brought it up!

[–]lazysnakes40 | married 3 yrs | tog 11 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is fabulous, I will be bearing it in mind in order to share with friends in future!!

Of course these days you have internet dating, but when I was young and unbearably shy it was pretty much impossible to get to the vetting stage since no-one asked me out! Anyway, thank God I met my husband and had the presence of mind to realise he was a good one.

Something not mentioned here, that was incredibly important to me, was to find someone I could trust to look after me if I fall ill. Not that I'm intending to, of course, but my mother had cancer, and my dad took pretty much a whole year off work to nurse her til the end. Sadly I hear it is all too common for men to simply run away from that kind of situation and not be able to deal. I'm still in awe of my mum and dad for how much they loved each other.

My husband showed similar tendencies, I believe, by dedicating the past five years of his life to care for his mother, who was in desperate need of him. Even though I wasn't happy about the situation (being the selfish person that I am!) I had to respect the massive commitment he made, his dedication and tenacity, and the strength with which he fought for his family.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What a wonderful addition to our guidelines! Trust and commitment are so key, and it is good to know that you are with a man who will stick with you even when things get hard. It's great that you picked a stellar man and I wish you both the best!

[–]lazysnakes40 | married 3 yrs | tog 11 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks so much Camille. It's funny because a man looking after his mother is pretty much a beta activity (if that! carers really have a low value in our society) but it can be insanely hard. No sleep, mental and physical exhaustion, emotional desperation and constant conflicts with the incompetent healthcare agencies. And he didn't let anything slide. It was truly awesome.

It bothers me a little that some people can't see how awesome he was / is. But it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. Everyone has a tough time at some point, and we have had it early on. We would keep ourselves positive by saying "If we can get though this we can get through anything!". And thanks to RPWi and all your fabulous advice our relationship just keeps on getting better :-p

[–]eliza_schuyler2 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

This is so awesome and comprehensive. I am madly in love with my lovely SO, and I wouldn't have things any other way. But if I hadn't had the good fortune to come across him at a young age... I would definitely have valued this guide very, very highly.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this up!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Aww thanks that means a lot to us <3

[–]OrganicSprout 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Socioeconomic Status - It makes the most sense to focus on men of the same or neighboring class. He’ll have similar values, expectations, behaviour, and more. Another benefit is that you’ll be able to navigate social situations without feeling uncomfortable or pressured. It will also be easier to meet men and go on dates, since you’ll be in the same area and enjoy the same things. Of course some women can find success without considering class, just be realistic about how well you will be able to handle a major shift either for you or your man.

Ah, this. I dated a son of a CEO and wow, what a culture shock! We were in two worlds. It didn't work out, despite us both trying. It wasn't either of our faults and we're better off not together. But wow! Did we struggle, haha.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In what ways didn't it work out, out of curiosity?

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter