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Hi ladies.

I thought this would make for interesting discussion, but after re-reading this it's more like a rant LOL.

I play at my student’s piano recital annually (I’ve always felt it’s nice for the teachers to play too). I chose Chopin’s Nocturne op.55 in f minor this year. I urge you to listen to it if you haven’t; it’s melancholic but beautiful.

In the process, I re-read Chopin’s biography. George Sand, a French writer and later Chopin’s lover, is often praised today for being an early feminist and withstanding societal norms. She dressed in men’s clothes later in her life and smoked in public (both which were quite scandalous back in the day). She was also quite open about her love affairs.

My mom always sighs romantically at the mention of George Sand, imagining some beautiful and romantic relationship with the Polish composer.

In Gossip Girl (lol), a professor says she’s one of her favorite female figures.

Books and articles tout how awesomely feminist and independent she is due to defying social norms.

The truth? She’s a self-centered, egotistical, and proud woman. However “strong” people may lead you to think she is, she absolutely is not. She is brittle, breaking under the pressure of life as soon as it gets difficult.


Backstory: Earlier, Chopin proposed and became engaged to a very sweet, young artist named Maria. She painted this lovely portrait of him. However, due to Chopin’s health declining, as well as rumors of him meeting George Sand, Maria’s mother ended the engagement in a letter to him. Even though Chopin was disgusted with George Sand when he met her, it wasn’t good in the public’s eyes that they corresponded and Maria’s family disapproved.

George Sand was deeply in love with Chopin from the start. It sounds like she ended up pursuing him (thus branch-swinging from another lover at the time). After the failure of his engagement to Maria, they somehow ended up together.

This boggled my mind a little, but then I remembered that people often “shelve” their bad qualities to seem better than they are. When life is good, those bad qualities can stay neatly tucked away…

Anyway, they still had a rocky relationship from the start. I could spend forever pointing out the early “red flags”, but let’s talk about when life really started getting hard.


Her true nature starts unfolding as Chopin is diagnosed with a terminal illness (suspected tuberculosis): I am absolutely disgusted by her behavior in these last years...

  • She often wrote to people that Chopin was her “third child”, and disrespected him with words like “little corpse”. She ranted about her frustration with the situation. Oh, yes, you POOR, poor, woman…what a terrible life you have…wait, who is the one that’s dying? She essentially resented him while he was dying, unable to walk, and in pain...

  • She picked fights with him when he was violently ill. She never took his side and was always against him. Feminist logic: he was the one turning against her, obviously!

  • Chopin was ‘indifferent’ to her radicial political pursuits, which I believe caused her some frustration. Is this surprising to us? Nope.

  • Sand was clearly jealous of her daughter, Solange, who seemed to have more grace and compassion than she did. They had a lot of disagreements.

  • Let’s also turn to the fact that all of this arguing happened while Chopin was staying at Sand’s estate in the summers. She should have made this a peaceful environment where he could rest and compose. I feel like he could have composed way more pieces even though he was sick, but due to all the drama and fighting, he probably couldn’t focus in such an environment!

  • She ends up writing a novel about a rich actress and a prince in weak health, which was a clear allusion to Chopin. The prince ends up getting a negative role in the book, everything written about him is unflattering. Chopin knew of the book, of course, which leads us to…

  • …An angry fight, leading to him FINALLY leave her. Her response to him leaving her was that it was “a strange conclusion[…]”. Actually, George, if you were any smarter you would see that it was the only logical conclusion. Anyway, we should feel happy that he finally left her, right?

  • Except…he died two years later. She never contacted him, never apologized, nothing. The last they remember of one another is an icy argument.

  • Solange, Sand’s daughter, was at Chopin’s deathbed. Solange’s husband made his death mask. The couple were very supportive of the composer even though he left Sand.

  • And…you guessed it: Sand wasn’t at his death bed. There is no mention of her going to the funeral. And, when Chopin’s sister returned their love letters to Sand, she destroyed them all.


George sand is far from being the "strong" woman feminists think she is. She is weak and solipsistic. She couldn’t put aside her personal qualms and simply love and care for Chopin while he was dying. Instead, she had to make everything about her and her suffering. Meanwhile she was in perfect health and her lover was one of the most amazing composers to date.

How would she feel now, knowing that millions of people worldwide adore his music? That he lives beyond his death? Meanwhile, she’s a straw that feminists grasp at to say “look, see, feminism in the 1800s!”

I pity Chopin for choosing such a vile woman. Not only did he have a terminal illness, but he had ZERO support from his lover when life started getting really tough.

Side-note: I believe the Nocturne was written a year after things started going downhill (1844). You can hear his melancholy in the music.


Oh, she was openly hypergamous too. I just found this:

Sand was a true Romantic. She wrote she was only happy "when I love" and not always then. She declared, "Love is all." But for Sand, love is only love when both partners are equals, "when two hearts, two minds, two bodies meet in understanding and embrace." She drifted from lover to lover, agonizing over the breaks and partings. She sought the perfect relationship, and if she couldn't have it, she would readily leave one man to join another who was, in her words, "closer to perfection."

No, Sand does NOT know what love is. She was NOT a true romantic. She was selfish, vile, and hypergamous. No man could EVER make her happy.

Shame on you, George Sand. Unfortunately, there are too many Sands in modern-day society to count.


There is one lesson we can take away for ourselves here: It's easy to be pleasant and feminine when life is good and you're dating a famous pianist. But when life gets tough, that is when your true nature will be put to the test.

We must always prioritize loyalty, compassion, and femininity unlike Sand. These qualities are what create true feminine strength.


edit: LOL at the puns. love you ladies hahahaha


[–]BeautifulSpaceCadet 4 points4 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Haha! Well written and still a well-composed rant (no pun intended?)

I think the historical element presented as a case study is a really cool concept for a post! And certainly not something I have thought of in any capacity. This woman sounds categorically horrid. Shame on Chopin for choosing her, however, I imagine his illness significantly limited viable alternate options.

Either way, very illuminating and a great example! The part of her search of perfection and "perfect love" and all that really resonates. I know I had so many misconceptions about love growing up, until one day I realized it boils down to input = output.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I love the pun!!

I know I had so many misconceptions about love growing up, until one day I realized it boils down to input = output.

Me too. I always felt like "what can they do for me" and not really putting in much effort to do for them. I can't believe how my perception of things has changed over time.

[–]BeautifulSpaceCadet 4 points4 points [recovered] | Copy Link

It was outrageously unintentional hahaha, but glad my terrible jokes could be of service d:

And yes indeed; I think that's a very common mentality to have about the arrangement. And honestly, I might even suggest it's only human to look out for our own best interests, right? I also though, think as humans, it's our responsibility to be aware of our own nature and not use it as an excuse for poor behaviour. Relationships are so easy to hold that "transactional attitude" toward (there was a great thread about it a while back).

Actually, you know what I think it boils down to? I think everyone thinks they get some fairy la la relationship where both partners put the other's needs above their own and do everything for them...they just 'forget' to execute the part where they are held to the same standard they expect from their SO, in which case the dynamic crumbles and everyone is looking out for number one again.

[–]littleteafox3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I also think that we often don't have very many positive relationship role models in our lives to show us what a successful dynamic could be. We don't have solid, strong, happy families. At least I don't, and my peer group doesn't. We don't have the gift of wisdom from our elders when they're ignored, either :/ Our relationship advice and guidance comes from Cosmo, women's studies in college, girlfriends on the CC, Sex in the City, 50 Shades of Grey, etc etc.

[–]BeautifulSpaceCadet 8 points8 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Mhmm. I know there are a few exceptions of women here who did have great family dynamics and role models growing up...that being said I fit squarely in your description.

Parents divorced; dad very complacent and beta; mom very dominant; even though grandparents are Catholic and don't believe in divorce, they are no example to follow...my grandma I think resents my grandfather for even existing. Frankly, it's a fucking mess.

I've never known a single relationship that would be desirable to emulate, which has made things very difficult. Largely growing up and my 2-3 high school/college relationships, I was honestly always a decently good girlfriend, certainly overly-dominating and many undesirable habits, but big picture kind and caring and all that. But God, looking back still...there was so much wrong and I knew it, I completely knew it -- I just didn't know how to change it. When there's a problem in the only system you've ever known, how do you even begin to troubleshoot that?

It wasn't until I was on the verge of losing HB that is became heinously clear something was in desperate need of fixing. I didn't know why we were having problems (I knew what the problems were obviously, just not why or where they came from) but I did know in my heart of hearts I was with a person who had never done anything but love and love and love me, and treated me with the highest regard, and who was just honorable in all he did. If you can't keep a man like that....the problem is not the men you are dating. So I set out to research and read and well, here I am.

So many people (God I hate to use a Mattix reference haha) just don't wake up. I'm not even sure specifically from what; the broken system of the sexes on a larger scale, but even from just their own misbehaviours that are harming themselves moreso than anyone else. It's hard to watch people treat their loved ones with aggression and contempt, but it's so shockingly pervasive. And I'm sure 90% of it goes exactly back to what you are saying by an utter lack of role models. It's very sad. There has been such a death of the family. I don't even mean the traditional family either. I'm okay with the modern family (same sex couples, step-moms, whatever) and think they can be as warm and loving as any. But it's the loving and strong family that is damn near extinct, in any capacity.

Sigh. I have chewed your ear off for just a really long way of saying "I 100% agree with you and this issue is rather near and dear to me".

On an optimistic note, I feel like a lot of my peers feel strongly about having happy lives and marriages and family. They are scared because they're not sure they know how, but they want it because they didn't have it. Maybe that means something for the future. I'm not sure, but I'll just hope for it lol.

[–]littleteafox4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I had such horrible examples of marriage that for the longest time I didn't want to be married at all! It's only been the past few years that I've been more open to it, and now definitely with my SO.

I've been a decent girlfriend I think, good enough that I'm still on good terms with the one ex I'm still in contact with. I loved him, cared for him, was a great listener, kind, tried to make his family happy, etc. We hardly ever fought. I was never bossy or dominant or naggy. My main problem was just not understanding men and their needs. I knew they liked sex but not that they needed it. I knew they liked food but not how important it was that I cook for them, to be taken care of in that way. I didn't know how naturally they are inclined to lead and lead well if you let them (and not worry about it, my vice). I didn't know about the hamster, and thought men thought the same as me and were being either intentionally obtuse or just didn't care enough to ~just know~. I thought the more we had in common the better match we would be. That ended up being a 4 year long relationship that was deadbedroom for a while because I had no clue that he was too much like me, too beta, for me to be happy, relaxed, deferential, and attracted.

I'm okay with the modern family (same sex couples, step-moms, whatever) and think they can be as warm and loving as any. But it's the loving and strong family that is damn near extinct, in any capacity.

Me too. We're not always born into a great family. Sometimes you have to make or choose your own family instead. But even then it's rare to have one that is full of bonded love. Maybe I'm just too much of a romantic.. but one of my goals is for my future children to see me in love with their father until the end of my days, for that spark to never truly fade, for there to never be any doubt that I am completely happy and fulfilled with my husband and family, and to have a family home full of warmth, love, and joy.

[–]eliza_schuyler 4 points4 points [recovered] | Copy Link

one of my goals is for my future children to see me in love with their father until the end of my days, for that spark to never truly fade, for there to never be any doubt that I am completely happy and fulfilled with my husband and family, and to have a family home full of warmth, love, and joy.

This is absolutely beautiful. What a great aspiration. I definitely agree with you. I would say that my ultimate goal is to model a happy, healthy and loving relationship for our future children, as well as providing them with a functional and loving family.

[–]BeautifulSpaceCadet 7 points7 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I've not ever seen that put so well to words, but I would say I have shared the same goal for a while. Only in abstract thoughts. The most concrete I've ever matured the thought to is that I want my children to witness marital love and affection as a staple of the home, and I want them to have absolute confidence that their parents loved each other. Madly.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

She sought the perfect relationship, and if she couldn't have it, she would readily leave one man to join another who was, in her words, "closer to perfection."

I think this stuck the deepest chord of my soul right now (hehe get it?). I just always felt like "what if...." or "maybe there is just something... better". I could never fully appreciate the people I was with because they had faults. Well duh! Everyone has faults. I had faults. Big ones at that.

It's easy to be pleasant and feminine when life is good and you're dating a famous pianist. But when life gets tough, that is when your true nature will be put to the test.

This is amazingly true. It is when you have hard times that your true self is shown. Not every day can be flowers and sunshine but when you go through crisis or devastation how do you maintain? That is the true test of character and femininity.

Thank you for posting this! I'm actually learning the piano myself so this is so great to read. Good luck on the concert.

[–]fhigurethisout 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I just always felt like "what if...." or "maybe there is just something... better". I could never fully appreciate the people I was with because they had faults.

Same...my teenage years were very...sandy.

I'm actually learning the piano myself so this is so great to read.

That's awesome! :) If you ever need piano pointers or advice just pm me, would be more than willing to help out!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

my teenage years were very...sandy

hehe. i see what you did there. this is quickly becoming my favorite post!

If you ever need piano pointers or advice just pm me, would be more than willing to help out!

You are awesome kid. I just do it for fun but if I ever have a question I'll be sure to reach out.

[–]MentORPHEUS2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can't carry a tune in an Ipod (brother got the musical genes) but I love classical, especially Bach and Handel.

This was an interesting read and RP interpretation. Looking forward to your analysis of the life of Alma Mahler.

[–]OrganicSprout1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I really enjoyed this post. The back story and lessons therein were nicely accompanied by the composition.

It's a shame he didn't have someone to support him better. Such a sad thought that he lost the woman he loved to someone like her.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for writing this maestro! Very interesting all around! :0)

[–]plein_oldearly 40s male♂1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

wow great story, just what I needed to read today; thank you

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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