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I am 24, engaged, and have been on RPW for two-years-ish. Incorporating RP theory has improved my relationship a lot. But this isn't about me.

My mom (50ish) and I get together and talk about relationships a lot, and how to improve them. I've never outright showed her this sub, but she agrees with the ideas and most of our discussions are very rp friendly.So far I've been trying to tell her whats worked for me, but nothing has stuck. I'm hoping that someone else can offer a perspective or ideas that can apply to her, because I grew up in a wildly different environment and I feel like I can't relate to a lot of the root causes of their problems.

My parents have been married thirty years. They have 4 adult children and everyone gets together several times per week for dinner. We're a very close family. Their sex is pretty much nonexistent, not that I've ever outright asked. They BOTH want a good sex life (and life in general) with each other. They BOTH want to make it work. But, they've been having communication problems forever.

One major root of their problems was their upbringing. I don't know how familiar you are with narcissists, but both my parents have narcissist mothers (I debated posting this to raisedbynarcissists) but my dad was the scapegoat in his family and my mom was the golden child in hers.

Basically this means that my grandmothers' were both very selfish and manipulative, but my mom got all the benefits (whereas her brother was blamed for all problems ) and my dad had a sister who "could do no wrong" and HE was blamed for all the problems.

This means my mom (the sweetest, kindest woman in the world) is very used to getting her way, and can't always internalize other people's perspectives. When the going gets tough, she tends to break down and become passive aggressive. My dad tends to think everyone is out to get him, and he over reacts to every problem, usually explosively (in a strictly verbal way).

That being said, he is one of the most honorable men in the world. He freely gives money to anyone in the family with an idea. Family is the most important thing to him. He is also genius level intelligent with amazing business sense. He started up a wildly successful company with no college education.

Recently in the talks between my mother and I, she used the words 'emotionally abusive' to describe my fathers actions towards her. I tried to avoid talking about that word, because my mom tends to be quite melodramatic. But she recently gave her phone to me when she upgraded, and (by accident, I'm positive) I saw that she has been saving examples of my father's behavior in the 'notes', and I, being a snoop, read them all.

And they are mean. Things like calling her a bitch, saying she's the meanest person in the world right along with both their mothers, etc. It was heartbreaking to read.

The thing is, they both are alcoholics. The kind that start drinking at 8pm every night and drink till they black out. They both would like to change this, but are unable to. Please don't advise me on telling them when/how they should quit. They aren't ready and I can't help them. But I'm pretty sure that 90% of the things my dad says are after they've started drinking. Again, I don't fear physical actions like fighting during that time. Just verbal.

I'm not trying to make my dad the bad guy. They are both responsible for their problems. My mom gives silent treatment, rolls her eyes, and emasculates him when she feels threatened. I'm not always sure that she notices that she's doing it. She thinks she's keeping the peace by not reacting with harsh words, but it enrages my dad because it's manipulative.

Divorce is not an option. This question is why I didn't post to other subs, because I know everyone would blindly shout divorce, but it's not a practical suggestion because they won't do it.

My question, I guess, is what should I do? I want to help. They were very in love once, and they still think they're meant to be together, they just can't open up to each other and it's getting worse. Both of them have told me separately that they are incredibly lonely, and feel like they don't have anyone to talk to. Neither of them have close friends in the area, and do not meet people easily. :(

Therapy would be helpful I think, but unfortunately they have a bad track record (they ended up going to a feminist woman who said it was entirely my dads fault... wtf?), and I don't know how to find an appropriate therapist, but I bet they'd go if they had a good recommendation.

I know this is too heavy for simple internet advice, and I'm half sure that I'm only going to get "butt out let them/a shrink work on it" comments.... but I thought I'd try anyway.

I need a jumping off point. I know it's not actually my responsibility to take care of any of this, but if there's anything I can do, I really want to help. They WANT to work it out. They WANT to have a close relationship with healthy communication. My mom has specifically asked me to help her with this.... I just don't know how to start :/


[–]BeautifulSpaceCadet 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Sigh

There's a lot going on here, not all of which I feel qualified to speak to. First and foremost, has your mother explicitly asked for your help in this? What about your father? Without both of them being on board with you playing Able Andy, you're going to cross very quickly into the territory of nosing where you shouldn't nose.

Frankly, you have nearly no power in this situation other than to give them resources and hope they choose to use them. I would suggest RP books, because it keeps you distanced from the situation.

This keeps coming up, but the book "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" would likely be hugely helpful for both of them. Particularly because it uses a lot of anecdotes that are dead ringers for their situation, then breaks each person's perspective down. The most important theme it speaks to is understanding your partner's fears, and how to avoid wandering into them unwittingly. For women, this tend to be isolation. For men, this tends to be shame. I imagine there is a great deal of both happening for both your parents.

The Surrendered Wife would probably be another good one, though I haven't read it all the way through. I don't think it's as dense as this situation could use, but I may be wrong.

Perhaps a gift of encouragement could help, like offering them positivity journals to reflect in daily. Just one or two things to appreciate in your partner can be a good start. Sounds stupid but the act of constantly reinforcing what we have to be grateful for can do a lot to change our state of mind.

Aside from those small gestures on your part...this is their marriage. Not yours. I'm sure it must hurt to watch the ones you love suffer needlessly and at each others' hand...but that's the way it is. You can only be accountable for yourself and this has largely nothing to do with you.

They certainly have my well-wishes but I'm afraid I don't have a list of things to be checked off until their marriage is happy again.

[–]good_mother_goose[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know about the nosing. I wouldn't say anything, but my mom did specifically ask for help. My dad has mentioned that he's unhappy, and that he'd like the circumstances to change, but he hasn't asked.

Thank you so much for the book recommendations. I think thats a really good way of going about it. The whole situation makes me uncomfortable, but it'd make me more uncomfortable to just tell my mom 'no'.

[–]lazysnakes40 | married 3 yrs | tog 111 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

From the upbringing they had my guess would be they have issues with codependency? (especially your dad since he got the 'scapegoat' role). If they/you haven't looked into it already, I suggest checking out codependents anonymous (CODA) they have meetings worldwide and there is even a subreddit where they hold online meetings. I wonder if it's something they would go to? I have a friend who says it has worked wonders for him, although obviously not everyone feels comfortable with the group meetings scenario :)

I recently came across an interesting video on youtube where he characterised 'codependency' as 'self-love deficit disorder' - that's a much kinder, clearer and more accurate description of the state, which should be more accessible for most people.

Another thing that pops into my mind is the book 'Games People Play' - I haven't read it yet, it's on my huge 'must read this' list, but it's a classic by the originator of transactional analysis (whereby everyone plays the roles of 'adult', 'parent', 'child' in different situations). It looks to me like a pretty illuminating book, and I guess I thought of it because of how you said your mother has trouble seeing things from other perspectives, so you will have to judge whether you think it could be of use.

The other, more redpill relevant book, would be When I Say No, I Feel Guilty. Do you think that would resonate with your Dad?

[–]good_mother_goose[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

wow thanks for the resources! I think you've summed up my dad pretty well, and just the title of the last book sounds just like him.

Thank you!!

[–]lazysnakes40 | married 3 yrs | tog 110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Aw poor dad :/ Unfortunately I have been learning way too much about all this stuff of late! It can be very uncomfortable to change habits of a lifetime. But if they can talk about it at all, it's got to be better than not talking and holding it all inside.

Really glad you found the info useful. Let me know if you can't find any of the resources xx

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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