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So, lately, there seem to be a lot of myths flying around concerning the relationship status known as marriage. Decrying marriage happens to currently be en vogue among some members of a certain community on reddit, which has popularized a lot of exaggerated and outright inaccurate propaganda. As a side effect, there has been some confusion from some red pill ladies. I would like to take this moment to clear up a few of these misunderstandings.

  • Myth: You’re a bad person for wanting marriage

You’re not. In fact, you’re just a smart person. Marriage is the prudent, intelligent, realistic, and respectable strategy for women. Are there exceptions? Of course. But it can’t be denied that the ideal RPW strategy is to marry a GOOD man, treat him well, and uphold her wedding vows scrupulously.

  • Myth: If you loved your boyfriend, you wouldn’t subject him to marriage

Marriage is mutually beneficial for both men and women. Married men live longer, maintain better health, suffer from lower rates of depression, earn more money, and receive many further benefits. If you take your vows and duties as wife seriously, there is no reason to believe your husband won’t enjoy a pleasantly increased quality of life. Of course, you should screen for men who have the sincere intention and desire for marriage to begin with.

  • Myth: Marriage is doomed to fail

Your marriage is most certainly not doomed to fail. Not only are divorce statistics exaggerated and skewed due to serial divorcers and factors such as low education and socioeconomic status, the outcome of your marriage is 100% in the hands of you and your spouse. There are two straight-forward steps that almost completely mitigate the risk of divorce:

1: Carefully vet and choose a good man

2: Conscientiously uphold your wedding vows and duties

It’s that simple.

  • Myth: High value men are eschewing marriage

It’s no secret that wedlock rates have trended down in recent years. However, there is one class of men who are still marrying and perpetuating legacies through their children. Educated, upper class men have carried on tying the knot, as marriage increasingly correlates with higher education levels and socioeconomic status. Essentially meaning, the one group of men who are consistently still marrying are the “high-value” ones. If you’re dating a high value man and he doesn’t want to marry, chances are it’s not marriage he’s against, it’s marriage with you. There’s a high probability you are a “starter girlfriend” he’s marking time with as he establishes himself, and you should really reevaluate your relationship status.

  • Myth: Having children out of wedlock is a valid option

Purposefully bringing illegitimate children into the world is one of the most irresponsible and poorly planned things a woman can do. Hands down. Being a “forever girlfriend” or plate is one thing, if you’re into that, you do you. But bringing a child into that mess? Incredibly imprudent.

Children born outside of wedlock perform worse in every measured metric. They perform worse in school, have higher rates of delinquency and incarceration, teen parenthood, low test scores, lower college attendance rates, etc. Is that really how you want to start your family? With no partnership, commitment, shared legal name, shared goals? What will you teach your daughter about relationships as she grows up and asks why daddy never married mom?

Having children without marriage is like paying a mortgage on a house you don’t have the title for. You’re fronting everything, investing everything, and have no guarantee or security. It’s an absolutely short-sighted idea. It doesn’t even make sense from the male perspective, since child support is ordered regardless of marital status. It’s not like keeping you in the plate position saves him from being on the hook financially.

  • Myth: Frivorcing your husband is a free party funtimes $$$ ticket

This is a dangerous myth that entices many thoughtless wives into divorcing their perfectly decent husbands. Let us get a few things clear: life as a mid 30s divorced mom is Not. Fun. I’m not one, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out. Not only are alimony rates way overhyped (alimony is awarded in only a very small percentage of cases), high value men are not going to be competing to wine and dine and commit to your saggy mombod self. Probably not even medium-value men, let’s be real. Not all states have no-fault divorce, further throwing the situation to your husband’s favor. Typically marital assets will be shared half and half, so now you’re out half your stuff, and have to scramble to support your sorry ass, all the while being hit by the realization that there are no decent guys in your dating league while your ex husband dates more attractive younger women. Sound fun?

  All in all, I hope this has cleared up some misconceptions, confusion, and harmful myths.  **Desiring marriage is perfectly in harmony with RPW concepts and goals, and is not something to be ashamed of.**  If the traditional route of marriage and children isn’t something that interests you, don’t take this post as a personal affront.  That’s fine!  I would caution you, however, to avoid the common pitfall of being the “cool girl” who is so chill and above caring about that lame marriage and kid stuff.  It’s very easy to not care when you’re young and attractive and have your whole life stretching out in front of you.  Think long and hard how you’ll feel when you’re 35 and hear the cats pawing their way in your door while all your friends have houses full of kids and walls decorated with wedding pictures, because by then it will likely be too late for you. 

[–]BeautifulSpaceCadet19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

the outcome of your marriage is 100% in the hands of you and your spouse.

This sentence is dead on and could be the TL;DR for the entire post; particularly points one and two. A marriage is not inherently negative for a man. It's also not inherently positive. It is precisely what you make of it, and if your commitment is to add value to your SO/Husband's life every day, then how, pray tell, is this a horrible deal for him? Commit to improving his life and marriage will be an improvement in his life. Period. And yours as well for doing it.

I also think you gave very measured consideration to each myth, and especially that last paragraph. On a general note, I'm really loving how much more content like this the new sub has as opposed to a zillion advice threads. It feels so much more like a community and less like an anti-feminist 'Dear Abby' box. Thank you for taking the time to share (:

[–]Kittenkajira13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I would caution you, however, to avoid the common pitfall of being the “cool girl” who is so chill and above caring about that lame marriage and kid stuff. It’s very easy to not care when you’re young and attractive and have your whole life stretching out in front of you.

My favorite part - I was so that girl once, despite always having wanting to be a stay-at-home wife and mother. Glad I got on the right track before it was too late!

[–]lady_bakerEarly 30s, Married 8 years, together 106 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. I am putting this one away upstairs on an easily available shelf to impart to my daughters.

[–]TempestTcup 11 points11 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Myth: High value men are eschewing marriage

I don't see this happening IRL; The men I see who are still bachelors later in life are not high value at all, they are the dregs. Even most of the most esteemed PUAs of the manosphere have gone on to find a woman they want enough to marry.

I guess it all depends on the type of man you find to be "high value" since that sub seems to revere men like Dan Bilzerian that have sex with a lot of strippers and prostitutes. If that is their idea of high value, then of course those men aren't wifing up the women they choose to have sex with.

[–]littleteafox6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. Pretty much 95% of the high-value guys I know have always wanted to be married, are married, or are planning to get married. I've had several older women caution me, "If he's past his 30s and has never been married, something's wrong with him". So far this has held out to be true in my observations.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right, marriage has always been a 'status boost' for both men and women.

[–]littleteafox10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Here's a list of some legal benefits of marrige: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html

There are social benefits to marriage for men as well, especially with employers. They view married men, especially ones with children, as more stable and dedicated and thus they will take that into consideration during the hiring/promotion process.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks! This should be at the top.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lovely job Suzanne! I love being married and besides the fact that we are conservative Christians, it would break my heart if my husband didn't want to marry me. I'm so glad he did and I live every day trying to make him happy that we spent another day married.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's so sweet <3

I live every day trying to make him happy that we spent another day married.

Lovely philosophy! I hope to live like that as well some day.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It really is the one thing I try and be mindful of. It's an on going process, that's for sure.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That’s fine! I would caution you, however, to avoid the common pitfall of being the “cool girl” who is so chill and above caring about that lame marriage and kid stuff. It’s very easy to not care when you’re young and attractive and have your whole life stretching out in front of you. Think long and hard how you’ll feel when you’re 35

This is really important, even if you are not dying to have children (and you're 25 or younger), but it's a possibility, or even a maybe - plan accordingly. You don't want to hit 32, realize you want kids and find yourself still trying to meet someone that's open to marriage.

Marriage and children are by no means a requirement, however this sub deals specifically with the female dating strategy, and we know that the overwhelming majority of women tend to want these things. There's nothing to be ashamed of, or to feel guilty about if you want to be Mrs. Wife with three bouncing babies.

We encourage women to utilize their youth and settle down with a good man so that they can build a strong foundation together, and take things as they come.

Great post /u/Suzanne_by_the_River!

[–][deleted] 6 points6 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'll be editing my comment because a few users suggested I slap it all together in a post instead of dumping it here on your thread. :0)

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent

[–]eliza_schuyler 6 points6 points [recovered] | Copy Link

These myths have been very disheartening to me, and definitely the flip side of discovering RP. Heading into a marriage which I know will be for life, I concluded that all I can do is make marriage beneficial for me and my man. Thanks for reinforcing that belief. This is a well-written, comprehensive post on a much needed topic!

[–]lady_bakerEarly 30s, Married 8 years, together 104 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You are in a wonderful position - you can avoid bad years, dead bedrooms and "why am I not happy" because you have the basic information that the world around us is determined to obfuscate.

I wish you well :)

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

There are two straight-forward steps that almost completely mitigate the risk of divorce:

1: Carefully vet and choose a good man

2: Conscientiously uphold your wedding vows and duties

Good short list. I'd add:

3: Do not marry him if you aren't very sexually attracted to him.

If you don't want to absolutely rip his clothes off and fuck him every chance you get, you should not marry him. Will you always feel this way about him? Maybe, maybe not. But your sexual desire for him early on will help carry you through tough times and when hard sexual attractiveness fades.

Don't expect that feeling to "develop later" or to "grow over time". It won't. If it's not there from the get go, it won't ever be there.

Don't dismiss sexual arousal as "unimportant". It is important. It is VERY important. It is very important to HIM. It will be very important to YOU.

Marriage is a sexual relationship. It is not roommates, or best friends, or partners, or a business arrangement. It is sexual. You and your husband are supposed to be lovers. If you aren't lovers, you don't have a marriage.

[–][deleted] 6 points6 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

it seems pretty obvious that while carefully choosing and vetting a man you should select one who is also attractive to you.

You'd be surprised at how many women believe that sexual attractiveness isnt' important when marriage is being discussed. I'm not saying that is true of RPWs, of course. For some folks, that probably needs to be spelled out.

[–][deleted] 6 points6 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

OK, I'm done here. I came here to offer a suggestion, I did so. Your attacking me is a bit out of line. In any event, I'm not here to rouse the rabble. I'm here to add to the discussion, not cause conflict. Peace.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've thought more about this statement from you. You said:

I have seen you personally, emphatically, and repeatedly brush off any relationship ails that befall women as "her own fault for choosing an attractive man."

If you can find a quote where I used those words or where I said anything like this, please post a link.

Second: Believe me, I understand and sympathize with what women have to do in forging a lasting relationship.

Women have a tough row to hoe. She needs to find a man she's sexually attracted to. That man also needs to have a good job, earn good money, know himself, know what he wants, have a mission in life, command respect, have his shit figured out, not have any major hangups, have a certain amount of status in the community and among other men, and have some sexual experience of his own.

On top of all that, he has to want to get married, he has to be ready to get married, he has to be willing to offer sexual fidelity, and he has to be sexually attracted to you. Finally, he has to be willing to give all this to one woman, and that one woman has to be you.

So yeah, I know how tough that is. I also know that most women compromise in the area of his sexual attractiveness and how much he arouses her. This is much to her own detriment later on, in many cases, because she just doesn't "feel the feelings" of sexual arousal that she used to feel for other men; and that she thinks she should feel because she's married to him. It causes much pain and misery down the line.

[–]aforemangrillearly 20's, single girl4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you very much for this post. I've definitely felt some guilt for being so set upon marriage. This post is very inspiring.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Glad to help! The hystrionic paranoia over marriage was definitely getting out of control.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

High value men are eschewing marriage

Just look at all the most powerful men. They are all married. Not just in a committed relationship....married! All the women who are in high power positions too!

[–]fuzzyface1980 7 points7 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Put a price tag on your man if you wish as he is an extension of you. But at some point, a wife should have enough forsight to know that being positive will strengthen him. Indirectly it creates a better man for you.

Briffaults Law is only a sign of a low quality woman. NAWALT. Thus one can say: be a quality wife and know that there is no Wall. Not for such a wife.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (57 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure what you mean, will you please clarify/expand/rephrase?

[–]fuzzyface1980 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Briffaults Law basically states women draw value of a man in the moment. Future and past are meaningless due to a need to survive. RedPillWives goes against this law.

It is my suspicion that men and women are very reflective. Briffaults Law fails or is circumnavigated when a wife positively supports her husband.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (55 children) | Copy Link

Briffault is known for what is called Briffault's Law: The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place. — Robert Briffault, The Mothers, Vol. I, p. 191

link

I admittedly have seen Briffault mentioned a lot, but have never really looked into it. Based on the above definition however, your statement is incorrect.

Women decide what is of value and worthwhile, so this sub and its focus on fulfilling LTRs/marriage is perfectly in line with Briffault's law....

I still don't understand what you are driving at.

[–]fuzzyface1980 0 points0 points [recovered] | Copy Link

This is not the whole definition and the devil is in the details. I see why communication between men and women is so difficult. With out respect, you stand from a position to confirm weakness.

Thus a very specific and important point is lost due to a shit test. I'll see myself out. Good luck.

[–]littleteafox5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude I don't know what you're talking about either. Nothing to do with shit testing.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

youre wrong in your redpill definitions and your bizarre, flowery language is difficult to decipher(ESL?). no one here is at fault because you are wrong and cant communicate well. no one here is shit testing you, we arent your wife

[–]geraldbaron88 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

What fuzzyface1980 is trying to say- or ask, is: How do you know the support you currently have for your husband/SO isn't temporary? Either Briffault's law is wrong or the red pill wives have a false sense of devotion.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

well considering weve been together for 13 years and i stood by him through the hardest, scariest thing he ever had to do in his life with love and support, and helped him do it, about 2 years in, i say i know

[–][deleted] -1 points-1 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

so are you here to tell happily married women who devote their lives to trying to respect their husbands and have lifelong marriages that its impossible for them to do it and they shouldnt even try? should we all just divorce our husbands and get it over with, since its inevitable? no one in my family has ever gotten divorced. what is your purpose here?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

On the other hand, no one in my family has ever gotten a divorce.

What's your point, other than our social circles and families seem to be very different when it comes to staying married?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is not the whole definition and the devil is in the details.

Fair enough, can you link to or quote the entire definition? Or point me to a thread that explains things?

I see why communication between men and women is so difficult.

I'm asking for clarification because your points are not clear, several users have expressed confusion about what you are trying to say and the points you are driving at.

With out respect, you stand from a position to confirm weakness.

If you are saying that I have been rude or dismissive, please explain how and where. If you are suggesting that I am trying to 'push' your buttons or undermine you in some way - that isn't the case at all. I genuinely have not understood your points, or what you have been driving at with your comments. This is why I have asked for clarifications, and provided the base knowledge I currently have (and am working off of) with regards to this topic (I admitted right away that I'm not familiar with Brif's law).

Thus a very specific and important point is lost due to a shit test.

What sh-t test? I have only asked for you to clarify your comments so that I can understand what your position is/points are.

I'll see myself out. Good luck.

I'm very confused about why you are 'checking-out' of the conversation...but, okay - good luck to you too?

[–]rpwthrowaway201624F, LD LTR, 3 years2 points3 points  (44 children) | Copy Link

I think what he's saying, judging from his earlier posts, is that women instinctively choose a man based on what she perceives his value to be at the moment (e.g. a common rant in TRP is about women leaving men when they lose their job/are depressed/etc); however, RPW go against this instinct by remembering how he's demonstrated value in the past and/or are far-sighted enough to see that he's a high-value man even if it's not conventionally obvious (e.g. he might be poor now but he's hard-working and trying to improve his situation). By supporting such a man, that both results in the man's value ultimately being higher than if she had left him (for example, he might be motivated to work harder because of her), and him being appreciative of her being supportive, thus being less likely to leave her because of factors such as age.

...that's what I got, anyway.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for the translation. If anything, TRP would benefit by teaching users to screen and vet for good, marriage and LTR minded women. They date in a way that largely attracts a certain type of woman (ones willing to sleep around, open to being a plate, and comfortable in non-committed relationships). Those types of women are not going to have loyalty and stick around when the going gets tough, because there's so little investment in the relationship. They trap themselves in a cycle where their dating style largely filters out quality women, and then they get upset when the less than ideal women they do interact with fail to display more admirable traits. This is what happens when men prioritize sex first and foremost above all else and actively refuse to consider good women that are LTR/marriage minded.

Vetting is important for everyone. We tell women to vet while keeping the long-term in mind, TRP teaches men to vet for the fastest route to the bedroom, and then pretend to be flabbergasted when that doesn't pan out over time.

[–]fuzzyface1980 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I have a daughter. She will be raised RedPill. I have sons. They will be of MRP quality. All my children need to be able to pick out relevant information and construct tools to attain their own happiness in life and do actions that build quality in those they choose to love.

TRP will fail because of what you have stated. Absolutely. Alternatively, RedPillWives will fail if they don't have a good enough grasp of TRP information and some here do not.

If my communication isn't good enough, perhaps the person hearing it isn't listening good enough. That throw away account figured it out.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

If you can't answer questions that are non-aggressive, sincere and issued by users actually willing to listen - then those misunderstandings are of your own creation. You literally ran away from the conversation when all I did was seek to understand your comment.

I'm glad the other user chimed in and I thanked her for doing so, but even she seemed uncertain about your point.

If you write a comment, refuse to answer questions and elaborate, and 5+ users have no idea what you are trying to say - you and you alone are to blame. I asked questions, you gave a dismissive and uninformative response and then left the conversation.

It seems clear to me that this conversation will not be moving in a productive direction, so I will end the exchange here.

Have a good day, and please be more willing to clarify points and explain yourself moving forward.

[–]geraldbaron88 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I beieve what fuzzyface1980 is trying to say- or ask, is: How do you know the support you currently have for your husband/SO isn't temporary? Either Briffault's law is wrong or the red pill wives have a false sense of devotion.

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So PhantomDream09, admitting she hasn’t really focused on Briffaults law, so easily dismisses my statement as incorrect as if she was some kind of authority on the subject she knows very little about.

I never dismissed what you said, and I never stated you were wrong. I did ask for explanations, rephrasing, clarifications, and, failing all else - for you to provide some links so I could read more about what you were driving at. In response to my questions, you left the conversation in a frustrated/defeated manner. I thought your reaction was surprising, considering all I had done was ask questions. I was not rude or impolite to you, please stop pretending otherwise.

[–]TempestTcup 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Instead of being cryptic and hoping people get your message, perhaps you might try being concise and getting your message through. No one wants to try to unravel whatever puzzle you are presenting because you are not a known member of this community and your comment history proves that you are exceptionally rude and frankly hysterical (not in the funny way). Get a grip man. No one wants a man who is not in control of his emotions; you are the antithesis of a RP man.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

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[–]geraldbaron88 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

What fuzzyface1980 is trying to say, or ask, is: How do you know the support you currently have for your husband/SO isn't temporary? Either Briffault's law is wrong or the red pill wives have a false sense of devotion.

[–]StingrayVC1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Devotion is a choice, not a feeling. We choose to be devoted.

[–]geraldbaron88 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I used "sense" as a substitute for "understanding"

What does that have to do with the question?

[–]StingrayVC0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I understood you to mean a sense of devotion towards our husbands. Not in a general way.

[–]DemonConsultingEarly 20s, Engaged, 2 years4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Awesome post! I love and agree with every bit, especially

marriage is 100% in the hands of you and your spouse

There has been a lot of doom and gloom going on about this topic in the pill sphere lately- this post is a healthy positive and most importantly realistic view of the situtation for women

[–]Reddened1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I buy into your reasoning somewhat regarding having kids without marriage, it raised some points I hadn't considered. I'm genuinely wondering though what your reasoning is for women to want marriage if they're not starting a family, or perhaps do not want kids?

If it's commitment related, my understanding is that your behaving like a high value RPW should be what maintains your partners commitment, so I'm wondering why marriage is still the goal for women? Curious on your thoughts.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Children, legacy, and inheritance are definitely the traditional reason behind the institution of marriage. However there are still valuable aspects to marriage for childfree couples. /u/littleteafox provided a good overview for some legal and financial benefits, and there are all the tangible but unquantifiable benefits of presenting yourself to the world as 100% committed partners for life.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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