TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

16

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/life/relationships/marriage-isnt-about-your-happiness

A newlywed friend of mine just posted this. I clicked into it thinking it would be an article about making your partner happy and not focusing on yourself, but it reads like something that a person would write when backed against the wall in an unhappy relationship.

The thing about happiness is that it should not be a sacrifice; with a sacrifice, you are taking away from your own happiness and causing yourself a hardship. Why should you be causing yourself misery by creating happiness for your partner?

The thing about deference (or as the author writes: sacrifice) is that it's meant to be kind, an act of good will and love. I have always interpreted the term "sacrifice" to mean something that causes a hardship.

When you sacrifice something, you are offering up a piece of yourself that you will suffer without, but ultimately and hopefully recover from. This is not good - it breeds resentment, and cultivates that give-and-take mentality that ultimately results in "you owe me, where's my share?" Giving should not hurt. It's an act of love - when you defer to your partner, you're saying "I love you, and I trust you." If that hurts, do you really mean what you're saying?


[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for writing this up! I'll read the article and then add some thoughts of my own to this comment. :0)

Edit:

Okay, this article already sounds fairly negative hahah, and I'm not entirely sure why.

Did you ever think someone could show you love through a bologna sandwich?

I didn’t think so either.

Until I found out that my then-boyfriend-now-husband (a poor, broke, medical school student at the time) spent close to two months eating bologna sandwiches every day in order to cut down his grocery budget to $10 a week, just so he could save up enough money to buy me an engagement ring

I have a few conflicting thoughts about this and I'll mention them in no particular order. First, I always find it charming when I hear how people will 'buckle down' for the sake of doing something kind or meaningful for the person they love. One of my favorite stories (it makes me cry every time) is "The Gift Of The Magi" and it really speaks to selflessness and giving up that which you treasure most purely for the sake of getting something the person you love will cherish. It's so beautiful, and I really should sit down at some point and write a thread about it. Anyway, the second thing that came to mind is that there's really no absolute need to scrape and suffer in order to show someone you want to be with them. I know it's cliche and I may sound like a hippie, but I really don't think fancy jewelry (or lavish weddings) are necessary for people that want to get married. In the past I've been fairly vocal about my dislike for extravagant weddings and entitled brides, but at the end of the day it's something that has to be decided on a case by case basis. As long as the couple is on the same page and are both having their needs and wants addressed, that's what really matters.

Because like it or not, marriage will cost you more than money. It will cost you something great. It will cost you a price much larger than the money you spend on a ring or a wedding or a honeymoon—it will cost you yourself.

This seems...extreme? Yes, both people may end have to give up certain things if they're getting married. After all, assuming it's a traditionally monogamous marriage - you're taking yourself off the market entirely. At the same time, I have always considered marriage to be symbolic of creating something new (a family) and special.

What an accurate reflection of the self-centered society we live in, everyone believing their main goal in life is their own personal happiness. What a small and shallow way to live.

Okay, I think this is something that a lot of people mistake when they see our sub (as an example). We talk a lot about giving, and focusing on our men, and driving home a sense of gratefulness, humility, and love. Doing those things (to my knowledge) doesn't mean you end up feeling isolated, miserable, or alone. There's something intensely satisfying about seeing my man visibly relax after a hard day just by being around me, and doing what I do - make an effort to show that he's appreciated. We actively invest in our relationship and in each other. It's rewarding and special, and I really wish the author had that same sense of satisfaction.

Marriage is not about your happiness, it’s not even about you. It’s about love—which is something we choose to give time and time again. It’s about sacrifice, serving, giving, forgiving—and then doing it all over again.

I flat out disagree with the first sentence....and I fail to see how it in any way relates to the rest of the paragraph (which I do agree with).

I really don't understand why giving and sacrificing are actions that lead to such negative conclusions on the author's part. It's a very odd experience, to read words that I agree with in so many ways - but then have them soured by all of her very negative take aways.

Because at the heart of it, real love is all about sacrifice. About the giving of yourself, in ways big and small.

It’s about offering forgiveness when you’ve been hurt.

It’s about giving your time though it’s not always convenient.

It’s about sharing your heart when you’d rather hold back.

It’s about cleaning the kitchen after a long weekend, even if it’s your least favorite job.

It’s about choosing to respond with love when you’d rather respond in anger.

It’s about offering a listening ear, when you’d rather tune out or go to bed.

It’s about putting someone else’s needs and desires before your own.

It’s about giving up that last bite of cake, just so your spouse can enjoy it.

I find all of these statements to be very thoughtful and honest and (above all else) positive. The author seems to be very clearly suggesting that these things are awful and horrid...and I simply don't understand it at all.

I also flat out disagree with the notion that you have to 'give up' personal rights in order to 'make room' for the rights of another. Why would anyone marry if they have such a negative view of marriage?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The author isn't saying that these things are awful and horrid. She's saying that these things -- love and generosity -- are more important than short-term happiness. Aure, in a good marriage, most of the time being loving and generous will also make you happy. But in a long marriage, there will also be times when your spouse needs something that's tough! My grandmother often told me about my grandfather's but of depression when he hit middle age. He became withdrawn and distant, and less supportive of her needs. In our day and age, people would have told my grandmother to leave him -- because he wasn't making her happy any more. But she stuck it out, out of love and deference, and they got through the tough time together. So yeah, I think this article makes a good point. Sometimes marriage puts demands on us that don't make us happy in the short term. But in the long run, a loving marriage will make us very happy indeed!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair points all around, and I agree with everything you said, the way the author conveyed these ideas however painted a picture void of happiness and fullfilment.

One of the reasons we warn against score keeping and a title for tat mentality is because we know things rarely come out perfectly square/even. That shouldn't encourage sourness however, and it doesn't when people have the right mindset that considers the life of a relationship in years, not days. The long view can be harder to maintain during hard times, but that's when I tend to think it's the most important.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think the article had a very positive and negative view of marriage at the same time, but the part that really confused me was the overall negative perception of marriage being something draining. There were those positive comments at the end, but it's hard to ascertain how those fit in to such a negative outlook. It's confusing to me, to say the least.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed!

[–]DemonDigitsLate 20s, LTR, 2 yrs2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'd love to see a thread from you about that story! Have you read much by O. Henry? Many of his stories run along the theme of love and sacrifice. I enjoy reading him alongside Oscar Wilde's brand of fairy tales, because the latter is so bleak and the former so hopeful it's like an emotional purging.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that's the only story I have read by him, though I could be wrong. I think it'd be really fun to have a thread about folk-tales, short stories etc that we all enjoy. I have a bad habit of coming up with ideas, and then failing to follow through on writing about them haha!

[–]HieronymusBoschClone 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

The only other story I've read of his was "The Ransom of Red Chief," which definitely doesn't fit in that genre (although it was hilarious). Which other one do, may I ask?

[–]DemonDigitsLate 20s, LTR, 2 yrs2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, gosh, I have a whole collection of his works and I'm drawing a blank, haha. One does come to mind, though, because I am reduced to blubbering tears every time I read it. I believe it's called The Last Leaf." It's not about a couple, but it does involve sacrifice for another's sake and the realization of a dream put to a noble purpose, and it is beautiful.

[–]HieronymusBoschClone 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

One of my favorite stories (it makes me cry every time) is "The Gift Of The Magi" and it really speaks to selflessness and giving up that which you treasure most purely for the sake of getting something the person you love will cherish. It's so beautiful, and I really should sit down at some point and write a thread about it.

Yes, you absolutely should. It's a wonderful story! I think my first encounter with that story was some Mickey Mouse christmas retelling, although I can't recall it at the moment.

[–]HieronymusBoschClone 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I really don't understand why giving and sacrificing are actions that lead to such negative conclusions on the author's part. It's a very odd experience, to read words that I agree with in so many ways - but then have them soured by all of her very negative take aways.

Because the author isn't in love. Ta-da! I predict < 5 years.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wonder how long the author has been married, it might be interesting to read some of her other articles and see if her tone changed dramatically pre vs post marriage.

[–]HieronymusBoschClone 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Wow, that article was crap. But I don't entirely agree with your assessment. I agree with you that what the author calls a "sacrifice" isn't really a sacrifice at all. All of the actions the author listed should be easily performed with little to no pain whatsoever in a healthy relationship. A real sacrifice would have been the author not needing a ginormous rock from a broke med student. That being said, sacrifices definitely occur even within RP relationships. In fact, RP relationships are by definition sacrificial in that both parties give up their dominant reproductive strategies for happiness over the long term. This happiness isn't fully realized at first, which is why so many people put it off. Hence sacrifice. But not every "short term pain for long term gain" can really be a sacrifice, though.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I do see what you mean there. I was interpreting it more on the view of the woman's side in an RP relationship though; I personally don't feel as though I have to make any sacrifices, because I genuinely love deferring to him and letting him lead.

I didn't see where she said she got a huge rock from him, I just assumed he was saving for a little one because I know how broke med students are. That said, I do see her gratitude there for what he did to try and show his love. It's not at all necessary, but it's something to be appreciated. I find that sweet, and I appreciate the fact that she attempted some appreciation for his sacrifices to her.

I do see how marriage is considered sacrificial from the man's side, so I try to make up for it by doing my best on my side to make it worth it for him. I'm not sure if I'm doing this wrong or not, but I want to make it worth it for him. I don't see anything I do as a sacrifice but as a showing of love and appreciation - I just want to make him happy and comfortable.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wonderful explanation and reply. :0)

[–]HieronymusBoschClone 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

But bologna sandwiches? So a counselor can get married to a doctor? Any size rock is too much. And what a bad example to lead with, giving an example of what he sacrificed to her.

I still think there's a bit of sacrifice women in getting married, although I agree the man's sacrifice is greater.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

But bologna sandwiches? So a counselor can get married to a doctor?

Men don't value women because of their careers. Men are not attracted to women based on their earning power. It's a mistake many new female users make, they think what makes men attractive to them as women will also be what men find attractive about them as a woman. Men don't care what your job is (this doesn't mean a man will not be interested in a woman's work - just that her pursuing a specific career isn't going to make him want to commit to her. It's more about what the woman offers in terms of personality, company etc. The value she adds to his daily life in terms of quality and enjoyment.

Any size rock is too much.

Setting aside whether I personally agree with this or not, I will simply state that it's something every couple has to figure out on an individual basis.

[–]HieronymusBoschClone 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes, this is all true. What I'm saying is this article screams "I MARRIED BETA BUX AND SERVING HIM SUCKS" and because of it, everything she does is a sacrifice. There's no mystery here.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you for the clarification, and I agree that's a solid possibility. Marriages like this (where one person clearly seems unfulfilled and miserable) always make me sad.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

What if he doesn't like being a doctor? It happens - I do know someone in that situation. Any woman who gets into a relationship for money should be ashamed of herself - while I agree that if you're planning a family you should have a plan, if you're still both broke students, you should really have a backup plan.

I think that "any size rock" is entirely the view of the parties. Some people work in careers where they'll be judged by that. I'm not saying it's right, but there are ways around it. Moissanite is cheap and looks just as good as a diamond if you don't want to blow your life savings.

[–]HieronymusBoschClone 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah, that's definitely a safe route to go. I just find it hard to believe that two months, even as a broke med student, wouldn't buy a decent rock, especially if you're cutting lunch to do it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Shoot, they barely make peanuts. One of my friends who went through med school was practically a zombie, he was falling asleep in public any time anyone tried to take him out. It's not a glamorous life, and it doesn't make much. It's really not a nice situation.

[–]HieronymusBoschClone 5 points5 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm sure it isn't. I can only compare it to triple majoring + honors + 30hr/week job. I had a fair amount of money then, and given the number of tech gadgets everyone has these days, it's hard to muster sympathy for their plight.

[–]ArgyleMNLate 20s, single3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Current med student (done in a few weeks!). At least in the US, we not only make $0, but tuition at the vast majority of med schools is $40,000-$60,000 annually, even at public schools. We often are paying to be working at the hospital 70+ hrs/wk and then have to go home and studying, so no real time to pick up a few hours even for any job. Without any income, saving up for an engagement ring would be a difficult task.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow great post. My initial reaction is that I hate the tone of the article. It makes it seem like she's miserable with sacrificing. However I think the true message and what she is failing at really describing is that when you give love, truly and freely, you wind up receiving it in spades. It's just a fact of life. When you begin to place yourself above all else that is a one way ticket to alone-ville. Now, I'm not saying that you don't need to practice self care nor am I suggesting that you need to become a mindless robot for your so. It's when you are constantly being selfish and self centered that's the problem. What I am saying is that if you've chosen a good captain and shower him with love, kindness,trust, and respect, nothing will ever feel like a sacrifice. I just think the author isn't conveying that piece of it correctly.

[–]tradmarriageftwEarly 30s, Married, 7 years2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't read the article, but I completely agree with your write up. If a person feels like all they are doing is continually sacrificing for a relationship it's going to lead down a road of resentment. It's more about changing the way you think about doing. You're both contributing together as a team to the relationship. So, you're not sacrificing you're contributing to the whole, which also benefits you, him, and the relationship you both value.

[–]jade_cat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for sharing this article. I agree with your analysis, especially your last paragraph.

I think the biggest problem in this article is her negative perception of marriage. I believe that someone in a happy marriage could rewrite the article with a much more positive perception. The basic ideas would be the same, but the motivation behind would be much different. It would not be about losing part of you in order to please your partner, but more about being happy because you are pleasing your partner.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Giving should not hurt. It's an act of love - when you defer to your partner, you're saying "I love you, and I trust you." If that hurts, do you really mean what you're saying?

This is what I'm taking with me into the future for the rest of my life. Not just for relationships. You should want to give to and for your partner. It shouldn't be a chore. Or painful. Or annoying.

Love this post~ Thanks!

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter