Feminists want us to define these ugly sexual encounters as rape. Don’t let them. [Article]

grimreaperx2 · 2015-05-30T04:48:08+00:00

The sad thing is there are real are victims out there whose suffering is diluted by people who make these exaggerated claims :(

ecossecho · 2015-05-30T08:24:13+00:00

Despicable behavior is not always criminal

This is the crux of it, I think. Yes, sometimes women are pressured or manipulated into sex. Sometimes we're really enthusiastic and then see afterwards that we were manipulated and taken advantage of. (Been there. I felt totally violated. It really sucks.) Men who do that are jerks. Total jerks. I understand why women are really angry at them. But criminalizing it isn't going to help, it just makes it harder for anyone to feel safe in their own actions.

snbdmliss · 2015-05-30T04:21:49+00:00

It's nice to see more mainstream articles that tell women to own their actions instead of trying to reclassify them so as to transfer any responsibility they had in the matter onto another person. I saw this article tagged on Facebook of all places and some of the comments below it just blew my mind.

One of which I feel I should quote because of its absurdity:

"I hate this article. She is trying to blur boundaries. I think the author is completely overlooking the most important fact - it is at the discretion of the woman to call it 'rape' or 'a mistake' She considers her experiences to be mistakes, and never reported anything, therefore no one was labeled or punished as a rapist. AND - how is punishing non-aggressive rape "trivializing actual sexual violence" That's like saying it's ok to be mugged as long as there wasn't a weapon involved. Does it matter if you were mugged at gunpoint or just mugged? Either way, you got fucked over against your will. I agree, some situations with sex aren't black and white. But when we are teaching our young men how to treat women, OF COURSE we should lean towards caution and respect. If it is all unclear, DON'T DO IT. She does not seem to understand the difference between "encouragement" and "pressure" of sexual activities, and actually proceeding with them without sober, direct consent. No one is saying men should be punished/expelled for TRYING to initiate a sexual encounter. She just randomly throws in a sentence about a student who was expelled for having sex with a "willing" but totally drunk woman...what is your argument, that because in her drunken stupor she said "wheeeee" it's ok? He wouldn't have been expelled for "encouraging" her to have sex."

Wow, just wow.

snbdmliss · 2015-05-30T04:34:31+00:00

This paragraph made me go WTF:

Ultimately, ensuring that sexual consent is always free of pressure is an impossible goal. Consent advocates already fret that even an explicit “yes” may not be given freely enough. A series of educational campus posters includes the warning that “if they don’t feel free to say ‘No,’ it’s not consent”; a Canadian college campaign cautions that consent is invalid if it’s “muted” or “uncertain” rather than “loud and clear.”

So let's say that in ten years time these consent advocates have their way. A girl and I have sex and she explicitly consents. Then, later, she feels guilty (the sex was bad, she has a boyfriend, she's a no sex before marriage christian, whatever). So now she can charge me with rape because "I felt pressured into saying 'yes'" or "my 'yes' was uncertain"?

How on earth am I supposed to prove to a judge (who is usually biased towards the woman's story) that her "yes" was in fact enthusiastic? Will I have to videotape every sexual encounter to avoid false rape charges? Will videotapes even be enough against "I felt pressured to pretend that I was enthusiastic" charges?

edit: rape is horrible, don't get me wrong, but these kind of "everything is rape" consent advocates make life harder for actual rape victims by trivializing rape.

agh_missedit · 2015-05-30T17:42:18+00:00

I once told a girl friend of mine about an sex encounter that I really should not have gotten myself into. It was a bad decision all the way around, but I didn't know how I was going to get out of it when I was half drunk and half naked in his room. I didn't know him that well except he had muscles and was rude to waitstaff.

I had a choice. I could get up and leave but I feared that he would attack me, make me feel bad and maybe even stalk me after (he had shown those tendencies before). Or I could stay and endure whatever was going to happen and cut it off later when it was all over. I stayed because I thought it would be safer in the big picture.

When I told her this story she had the most shocked look on her face

"Don't you realize you were raped?"

I was confused as hell. I'm pretty sure I wasn't raped. Was it a bad sex experience? Yes. Rape? No.

"No, you totally were! You should have him arrested!!!"

Back then when I was much younger and this conversation confused me so much. Before I told her about the story, I was perfectly OK with owning up to my poor judgement and I was never going to let it happen again, ever. I was gonna screen guys better and ease up on the "free" drinks.

After her comments, I felt like a victim, powerless. I felt like I was added to this class of "raped women" and I had to behave a certain way, the feminist way.

This is why its important to call bad sex experiences what they are. Its not rape. Its you being stupid. Get your act together and make better decisions next time. Since then, I've never put myself in that position ever again.

FleetingWish · 2015-05-30T16:37:46+00:00

The irony is this is the same group of people who want to devalue sex. These are the people who are saying that women should have more sexual partners and not feel guilty for doing so. These are the same people who think that the more partners you have the better you'll be at sex. They say sex is just fun, and you should experience as much as you want.

But then there's rape, one of the most "evil" things you can do to someone. Mentally we categorize it almost as bad as murder in terms as the most horrible crimes to commit.

Calling these encounters "rape" (where she was coerced, and regretted it later) is implicit admission of the fact that they still think sex is valuable. They don't want to give it to just anybody, they only want to give it to those who they think are worth it.

So which is it? Is sex a game, just people having some fun or is it something valuable and sacred that should only be given to special people? The reality for them is that it's fun... Only if it's with the right people.

LiaKathryn · 2015-05-30T14:28:02+00:00

I just realized how pervasive this thinking is on reddit alone. I read a story where a man got drunk (accidentily, drinking what he thought were non alcoholic beers) and then made out with a female friend and accepted a blow job, came come told his wife... She posts on reddit and the immediate response was he was raped. What? By feminist logic every sexual encounter I have had outside of long term relationships (and in fact even starting those) has been rape. While I dont think he should be held completely accountable for what happened it sure as fuck didnt sound criminal.

Seriously. Every, single, initial sexual encounter I have had I was reluctatant at first, talked into it or really drunk and too nervous to say no. And I consider these all poor decisions on my part and in some cases consider the other person an asshole in retrospect... But it still wasn't rape.

On the flip side... I have been legitimately raped. When you say no, scream stop, and it still happens while you cry and try to get the person off of you, thats an entirely different terrifying experience where you have no control over the outcome. Completely different from "ugh i dont realllly want to do this but he's my friend and i dont want to upset him or lose his friendship and i'm too drunk to really care so I guess I'll just let it happen and hate myself tommorow for it."

One situation has a choice, albeit poorly made, the other had no choice. I really get sickened by people playing victim to their own poor choices.

lvioletsnow · 2015-05-30T21:19:37+00:00

Jesus. -sigh- This reminds of the video from /u/girlwriteswhat that I saw a few days ago. It basically posited that feminists are fundamentally lying about what they want because for women to be truly to men equal we have to be willing to give up our feminine privilege.

It is a feminine privilege that people care, deeply, when a woman has been sexually assaulted. When we have been hurt and violated. (Male on male rape or DV is usually posited as "funny" or "emasculating".) To abuse that protection so the carousel can be rode without even the tiny bit of damage to the "feels" is a slap in the face to those original feminists who just wanted their SOs to stop hurting them.