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INSIGHTFULRPW in a Nutshell (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by StingrayVC

We get a lot of women coming here saying things like, "I love RPW but I don't believe in all of it!" or "You all say to do X, Y, and Z and he's not happy and I'm not happy" or "my husband isn't responding" or so on and so forth.

Here's the thing about RPW. Yes, we have lots of theories about a lot of things regarding sexual strategy. Quite frankly, we don't really care if you believe any of it, all of it, or none of it. What we do care about is your happiness and self improvement as women and you having a fantastic relationship. So here is the beginning and the end of it.

Find a good man and defer to him. Advice on the internet be damned.

If you take nothing else away from this subreddit, take away this. At the end of the day, the whys of it all don't really matter if you are happy and a good woman to a good man.

*For those who read this and think, "Why do you think it has to be this way for everyone!" We don't think that. Do what you want, but this is what this subreddit is about. You can go elsewhere for that line of thinking.


[–]freebumblebeeendorsed woman 20 points21 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for making this post. There are so many people who come up like, "I agree with RPW but my husband likes short hair/tattoos/piercings/girls in leggings," "I want to be a RPW but my boyfriend wants me to be in charge of the finances/we don't want to get married/we don't have children/we want me to work," etc. And I felt like that too in the beginning! I felt like there was a checklist of things I needed to do and if I didn't do all of them, I wasn't a "real" RPW. And that shouldn't be the case. All advice should be filtered through, "will this make me and my SO happy?" and "will this make our relationship better?" and "will this help us to achieve our goals (whatever they may be)?" If the answer is no, then that advice is not applicable to you.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was that way, too. For quite a long time. Then one day it dawned on me facepalm, I married one man. Not all men. He is the one that matters, not what the majority of men want. This is what is important.

[–]TempestTcup 17 points18 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

"How does a RPW do ___________???"

There are so many questions that make me shake my head, LOL! How does a RPW paint her nails? Like we are an identical army marching down the road or have a 100 point list of rules. Some get so specific about it, and the answer is "However your SO/Husband wants you to do it."

RPW boils down to (I know I've said this 1,000,000 times, hahaha) look good, don't be a bitch, keep his belly full and his balls empty. All else is whatever you two decide as a couple.

[–]freebumblebeeendorsed woman 8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It's not rocket science. I'm a bitch when I'm hungry or horny. I like being around pleasant people. Why wouldn't my man be the same?

[–]TempestTcup 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

But what color did you paint your nails?

:)

[–]freebumblebeeendorsed woman 12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh did you miss the weekly meeting? On Wednesdays we wear pink.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Darnit. I missed the memo.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

what is the most RPW color to paint your nails?

[–]TempestTcup 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

RPW Flair Pink of course!

[–]IVIaskerade 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Back half light blue, front half pink, think white line between the halves.

It's the pill in your flair!

[–]IVIaskerade 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Like we are an identical army marching down the road or have a 100 point list of rules.

Wait, you're not all Stepford Wives?

What a revelation!

[–]TempestTcup 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know! Shocking right?

[–]SoonToBeMrsHim 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

RPW boils down to (I know I've said this 1,000,000 times, hahaha) look good, don't be a bitch, keep his belly full and his balls empty. All else is whatever you two decide as a couple.

Had to steal this for a tweet, I love it!

[–]TempestTcup 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Have at it :)

[–]Olmaliverz5 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

This is so accurate for me. For the longest time I didn't understand things because my Captain loves tattoos and some of the more taboo things on here. It took me forever to learn that some of this information just doesn't apply to us, and that I don't have to listen to every little bit.

[–]freebumblebeeendorsed woman 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I remember literally having a moment where I was like, "I should wear a dress, men like dresses. No, I should wear leggings and a hoodie, BF likes that. Oh god what do I wear." And I almost slapped myself. I'm a pretty indecisive person anyways, so that realization was actually really helpful and productive for me.

I feel like kind of a dummy sharing this story--not my proudest moment--but hey, that's how we grow!

[–]nomnompuffs27 points [recovered] (50 children) | Copy Link

No, the fundamental shift in /r/RPW recently is that it's begun to shift from a clear message of "Submit and defer to your husband and learn to live with the fact that men interpret respect as love, and they express love through taking up good leadership.". /r/RPW also fundamentally rejected every appearance of hamstering and gynocentric "narrative" nonsense ("Well this worked for me, and this is my narrative") and presented an objective, cohesive, structured ideology, which left zero room for subjective "my narrative" hamstering.

The new message is, "RPW doesn't mean you can't have it all, and it can work even if you don't learn the fundamental tennets of respect, deference and surrender. You just have to have a ~feminine mindset~ and do more ~feminine things~"

In the earlier days of this sub, the words "respect", "defer" and "submit" and "obey" used to pop up with high frequency. Now "submit" has all but disappeared, "respect" pops up once in a while, and certainly, ugly words like "submit" and "obey" have taken a backseat to...

~Feminine~ mindset.

Naturally, as the focus on properly understanding how deference to husbands is the magic silver bullet for most marital issues, has all but died out, the dilution and resultant ineffectiveness of the advice in the sub has begun to show.

[–]TempestTcup 18 points19 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

I agree. Also, there for a while the big message was "wear a dress, put on makeup, and look feminine". We really had to fight the cosplay femininity all the new women were embracing, and I think that was a large part of why "feminine mindset" started being emphasized. Putting on a dress is sooooo much easier than not being a bitch.

I think that the different cycles that RPW go through are due to corrections of previous cycles. I'm certain that we will cycle back eventually.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm certain that we will cycle back eventually.

Count this as my attempt to cycle back. It's time.

[–]TempestTcup 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It just takes a pebble to start ripples :)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I'm curious if you read what he wrote before agreeing, particularly this:

The new message is, "RPW doesn't mean you can't have it all, and it can work even if you don't learn the fundamental tennets of respect, deference and surrender. You just have to have a ~feminine mindset~ and do more ~feminine things~"

Do you think this is happening on the sub?

[–]TempestTcup 2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Not completely, but it has been concentrated on the ~feminine mindset~ and do more ~feminine things~ to a huge extent, especially the "do more ~feminine things~" part. Lately it seems like we are about 80%* ~feminine things~, about 10% of the women here are asking questions about trying to "have it all", and respect and deference takes a back seat to all of that when it seems like it should be the major focus.

I realize that most of the established RPW already have respect and deference down pat and have moved on, but a lot of the new women are definitely in the cosplay stage. Even on this thread there is a woman denying the nature of women saying that we aren't more emotional than men and getting upvoted to a small extent, LOL! Maybe she is part Vulcan :)

There has also been an influx of women bitching about other women (posts removed, of course), which I think is an indication that a lot of RPW don't understand that we are concentrated on interactions between women and men in a relationship or women and the way they interact with others around them, the ~feminine mindset~. They are still in the competing stage, and if they are competing with women, wanting to be "right" and "win" the argument, then they are probably still doing that with men, too.

It just seems to me that we are too concentrated of the trappings of femininity and rarely any more discuss the differences of men and women and why embracing those differences is so important to a relationship: being the yin to his yang. It really seems to only come up when women ask for advice in a difficult relationship.

*[edited] Okay, looking at the posts, it's probably not 80% lately, but it just seems that way to me. How many recipe threads have we had recently, LOL?

[–]tintedlipbalm 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

There has also been an influx of women bitching about other women (posts removed, of course), which I think is an indication that a lot of RPW don't understand that we are concentrated on interactions between women and men in a relationship or women and the way they interact with others around them

Totally agree, but I think some of those threads as well as recipe threads are done to bond with the community here. I don't get a vibe of "How to cook turkey as a RPW?", but more like "I like it on this subreddit and wonder what other women here are doing for their loved ones". But yes, it's off topic.

I personally really dislike when people post venting about their friends and other women, but also can see it as their attempt to bond with the women here because in many ways we are alone irl in our journey when taking the pill.

[–]TempestTcup 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

recipe threads are done to bond with the community

Yes, I do understand that and agree with it. It gives women a way to interact in a safe way when they are new and don't want to comment on the more gritty posts yet. I also think it is important to have those threads.

And I understand about how venting about friends and other women are also bonding, but it's in a more negative way.

I guess my main beef, and it's not a huge beef at all because I think the sub is doing fine, is that there are very few posts of substance that we can sink our teeth in and discuss one of our main endeavors: embracing the differences and complementary nature of men and women in relationships.

Of course, I have been searching for posts to link on those subjects, and if I do a search like "why respect and deference from women is important to men" all I get are posts of the opposite nature; "why it is important to respect women", LOL! It's kind of frustrating :)

I guess I will just have to write my own post: if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself!

[–]littleteafox 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

there are very few posts of substance that we can sink our teeth in and discuss one of our main endeavors: embracing the differences and complementary nature of men and women in relationships.

Ooh I would love to see more posts like these :)

[–]StingrayVC[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess my main beef, and it's not a huge beef at all because I think the sub is doing fine, is that there are very few posts of substance that we can sink our teeth in and discuss one of our main endeavors.

This. All the other posts are fine. Great even, but if we invest in them too much, all the really important stuff is gone.

[–]tintedlipbalm 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Definitely write your own post! I really enjoy them.

I think the Simple Questions thread was also a good idea to get the conversation going on topics that would be too small for a thread.

I also appreciate this is not a place for venting. Other female communities have weekly venting threads, or off topic threads, one day a week. While I think the venting threads would do no good here, maybe a weekly off topic thread could do. But we do have the Self Reflection thread going now, hmm...

[–]TempestTcup 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As far as I know, the Simple Questions thread is going to be a regular thing, and I think we had a lot of great conversations. I think it doubles as an off topic thread, too.

I like the Self Reflection threads because they give RPW the chance to evaluate their progress and set goals. I think, as far as I have heard, that they will be a rotating sticky at the top: 3-4 days of one and then 3-4 days of the other, and given the "low attention span" nature of reddit, I think that will work well.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

i agree 100% with what youre saying here, im just not sure its what nomnompuffs was saying

[–]TempestTcup 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Granted, he did edit his comment about three times after I commented on it, but even though he takes an extreme stance, he does have a point in there.

[–]littleteafox 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Haha I have noticed the recipe threads, I even made one too. But, tis the season, right? Plus, it can feel reassuring and encouraging when you're able to do the "easy stuff" when the tougher stuff (submitting, surrendering) comes along.

[–]TempestTcup 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But, tis the season, right?

True! It's hard to get around that when all of the holidays are all about food!

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

because "submission" is not the proper word for what we advocate. there has been lots of discussion of this. submission has BDSM connotations and christian connotations. my husband despises "submission", he likes military style hierarchy DEFERENCE. he isnt my lord and master, he OUTRANKS me

too much use of submission filled us up with fetish weirdos and women who wanted to make RPW into a fetish cosplay kink in order to make their beta szhlubs more masculine so they could get off

[–]nomnompuffs3 points [recovered] (19 children) | Copy Link

I'll be answering your other request here later on today. For now I'll tackle this first. You may differ on one or two minor points of semantics, but we'll probably agree in the main -- or perhaps not; who knows. I perceive the difference between "submission" and "deference" as follows:

Deference is obedience out of respect/admiration and is maintained by a constant awareness of the worthiness and merit of the object of that respect/admiration.

Submission is an entire surrender of the self to the idea, the office and the person who represents the authority of the office you are submitting to.

Deference requires constant maintenance because it requires an external maintainer -- the object of your deference is required to consistently reconquer your mind. Deference requires a consistent hand of mastery and a consistent exercising of dominance through various subtle means to maintain the vigor/strength of the woman's admiration.

Submission reforms the character fundamentally, such that your mindset is fundamentally in line with the understanding that a good leader has consistently stepped up where needed in the past, and that you therefore need not continually require new demonstrations of mastery to maintain your admiration/respect -- you have submitted yourself to that leader and you trust his leadership.

I.e, submission resolves the issue of Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt and Hamstering which are inherent in womens' constant anxiety and need for validation. Deference does not resolve the fundamental internal issues that cause Fitness Tests (aka, "Shit testing") to arise. What I'm saying is that for men, who value peace of mind and respect above all from their wives, submission is more likely to result in a harmonious relationship. Deference gives the woman more tingles because she constantly gets to "act up" and dump a burden of necessity to "demonstrate mastery" on the man and then get tingles as he flies by her Fitness Test. That may be very fun for the woman, but I guarantee it is harrowing for the man.

In other words, I'm saying that Deference is to Submission, what BDSM is to Deference -- I disdain deference without submission the same way you disdain BDSM without deference, for the same conceptual reason. It's gynocentric.

Deference doesn't fundamentally cause the woman to live in self-contained and self-generated peace with her husband, through trust. And you are correct -- I derived that definition of "submission" from a scriptural exegesis. I agree with you that the BDSM definition of "submission" is ineffective and actually gynocentric.

I would type something like, "I think RPW [is/should be] X, Y and Z", but it's not my role to define RPW, so I'll just present a detached analysis of the resultant effects of both paths.

There is no expectation that any change will occur, as a result of any of my analyses. There is additionally no expectation that you or anyone else will agree or disagree with anything typed here, or that there should be any change of direction or reform following anything typed here. Given that I do not see anything I typed here as necessitating any change of direction, I also will not be responding to any further questions in this direction, since I am fundamentally not trying to change anything, so aggressively discussing the matter as if I have a stake in the outcome is counterproductive.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

i think this is a very good well thought out answer, thank you

Deference requires constant maintenance because it requires an external maintainer -- the object of your deference is required to consistently reconquer your mind. Deference requires a consistent hand of mastery and a consistent exercising of dominance through various subtle means to maintain the vigor/strength of the woman's admiration.

i would say here tho, that this is why im viewing what youre saying through a beta lens. BETAS have to work hard to maintain deference, naturally dominant men dont, i think thats the disconnect

[–]tintedlipbalm 1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I came to your same conclusion. A fit male would have no trouble maintaining said respect, it comes easy to him. But I agree submission is what's required for marriages that struggle with a high dominance wife married to a beta.

I think Camille had some idea for a post about the differences between submission and deference from a MBTI perspective.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

betas want submission, alphas want deference, thats what it comes down to.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Why? I'm going by the definitions that /u/nomnompuffs gave. Why would a highly dominant man not want his position respected and want submission?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

the more dominant a man is, the more he views relationships through the lens of male hierarchies. any time ive acted "submissive" liked a woman rather than deferential like a lower ranking male it has kinda grossed my husband out. he actually called me a faggot once. beta males want de facto submission to their status without having to earn or maintain it (submission to the OFFICE of husband, as nomnompuffs said). alphas/dominant males want to be deferred to out of personal respect. a submissive woman (imo) would simply "submit" to anyone occupying the office of man, not just to HER man who earned her respect

[–]tintedlipbalm 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

In theory I agree, but in the scope of RPW your husband is a huge outlier. If the average RPW is with a higher beta, nomnompuffs point stands.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeh

[–]StingrayVC[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Ok. This I can see. I view submission differently. I see it as one deferring at the beginning of the relationship and then once Trust is established on can settle into submission. Not out of respect for the title, but respect for the man. He, individually, has earned submission, as defined above.

Now, if we come at this from a woman's perspective, I think it would be good to further explain deference to submission. I understand the reasons for not wanting to use submission here and I think they are valid. But I think it would help a lot of women to talk about this deeper respect. The vast majority of men are not and are never going to be as dominant as you talk about. So, to teach the women to submit, as outlined here, would be good.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

agreed, i just wish there was a word that didnt overlap with gross fetish

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i seriously would love a deference vs submission post from one of the mods. this would really clear up some stuff i feel like.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Out of curiosity, how did you behave differently with deference vs. submission?

[–]littleteafox 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm having trouble understanding the group's distinction of the two. The dictionary defines deference as "humble submission and respect" which would imply that deference is better, because it includes humbleness and respect. This would imply you can submit without respect or humility.. which I suppose is true. Submit seems more cut and dry to me, whereas deference has more.. significance. Deference involves you giving more of yourself.

[–]nomnompuffs1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Had a great time here folks!

[–]StingrayVC[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok. I don't have a problem with this.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

BETAS have to work hard to maintain deference, naturally dominant men don't

I agree with this. However, looking at it through a RPW lens, focussing on his definition of submission vs deference at some point would be good. In this way, we are not depending on our men to do it for us.

I've been hashing out a post in my mind, but I've been terrible about actually writing things up lately.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Deference requires constant maintenance because it requires an external maintainer

Submission reforms the character fundamentally

These are excellent observations. Now, as you said, this may come down to semantics. Here's the thing with that, when one first finds RPW there doesn't really need to be a difference in definition of these two words or ideas. One just need to understand that, deference/submission to a good man (and therefore respecting him).

For many, this will be enough or as far as they can/are willing to go.
However, there are those who will wish to go further and to learn more. This is when this different perspective can make a huge difference. It might seem small, but the difference between the two, as you described them, is huge.

Depending on the man for one, and yourself for the other is a complete change in perspective. When one can submit under their own will, it brings a whole new level and a whole new understanding. It also brings a new level of peace to the relationship and to oneself.

[–]cxj 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

in order to make their beta szhlubs more masculine so they could get off

Well, that's not the worst start.... but I can see why they need to move on from that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

The new message is, "RPW doesn't mean you can't have it all, and it can work even if you don't learn the fundamental tennets of respect, deference and surrender. You just have to have a ~feminine mindset~ and do more ~feminine things~"

Could you link to something like this?

[–]littleteafox 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I specifically remember commenting that you CAN'T have it all in this thread.. https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/3uvarz/how_do_you_balance_it_all_career_homemaking/

Other's suggestions were to read Surrended Wife, and to prioritize around what HE considered important, "throwing yourself" into "his desires", "You can't have it all. You prioritize what is important, and you do that " "You don't have to be Polly Perfect, you just do your best and prioritize what your husband prioritizes.", and so on. I haven't seen any suggestions from rpw that only having a feminine mindset was enough. I guess I could be overlooking something somewhere...

[–]nomnompuffs3 points [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

I began doing this assignment at 03-Dec-2015, 12:05 EST. I finished at 03-Dec-2015, 13:06 EST.

The purpose of recording the start and end times is to demonstrate that I didn't have to go scouring through the forests to find examples, but I was able to find them at a leisurely pace, and find an adequate number of them. I have also constrained myself to only using examples from threads that appear on the first page of the subreddit, for the same reason: the demonstrate that I didn't have to glean with a fine-toothed comb to find examples.

Additionally, there is no expected outcome from any of these observations..

EDIT: I ended up taking an hour for 3 examples, but it was really because of formatting and writeup, sorry.

Thread: Confused about career path? Any insights and own experiences appreciated :))

OP's problem: She wants to be a SAHM, but she has a conflict of ideology where she feels she has to prove something in the corporate world. Additionally, her majors are in Economics and Anthropology, so she is very correct in having a "quarter life crisis", according to her own words. She is unlikely to have a high powered career with "Economics and Anthropology", and will most likely always be shuffling paper and at most reach a supervisory position. She also probably subconsciously knows this because she says, "I don't know what kind of ... career I want."

Gold standard advice: OP should be told that believe it or not, it used to be very normal for women to put off their careers until after their children have become independent, and if she feels like pursuing a career then, there's no shame in it. If you want a job for security in case of divorce, get a casual job; stop deluding yourself with this "career" word. You have nothing to prove. Quite frankly, in case you hadn't noticed, if you get divorced you will get money in your settlement anyway.

Advice given by /r/RPW: "You can have it all; continue to pursue the conflicting interest with the same level of vigor, and something will work out." Closest advice to gold standard: tradmarriageftw | cxj

Thread: How to deal with men running off after finding out I make more money than them?

OP's problem: 28 year old spinster who has priced herself out of the dating market. Most single men over 35 who are marriage oriented are either divorcees (and have dealt with combative women before so they are cautious) or never been married before and are very shrewd because they have been actively avoiding making the wrong choice of wife. OP has the immediate distinction of being a red flag -- that's just how it is.

Golden standard advice: You have to chase upper-middle class single men who are at your level. These men are used to having 28-yo, 8/10+ women throw themselves at them, so you need to be significantly more submissive and deferential than these other 8/10s. Your other option is to accept the fact that unless you downgrade your job, you will face this problem indefinitely.

Closest to golden standard: aZombieKitten, who basically said that, but failed to point out and strongly emphasize the most important part, which is that the OP has placed herself into a position where she is at an "all or nothing" crossroads and she needs to master submission and deference at a high level in rapid time and literally monk mode until she has it down. If she doesn't she will end up having to settle for marrying a man who cannot master her and manage her skillfully and she will despise him. And this is not a jump to conclusions, because the OP is already facing a set of negative stereotypes as a single black woman at 28 with a high income. I don't like calling on racial politics, but the /r/RPW moderators are aware that I am black, so I might presume to have some insight here.

There was zero emphasis on this, and the rest of the commenters went off on strange tangents, talking about her being awkward, or not confident/~feminine~ enough (???) and all kinds of weirdness.

I made an exception from my rule (only threads from the first page) for this particular example, mostly because it had a large part in crystallizing my opinion that the subreddit was departing from plain truth, which is that men and women see things differently, and unfortunately regardless of how one might feel, that is impossible to reconcile.

Whether or not this demonstrates possible bias on my part is something I will leave up to the moderators, and whether or not that takes away from the strength of what I said, is also something I will leave up to the moderators.

Thread: How to appear to enjoy sex, even if not?

OP's problem: OP is complaining about "pains" and asking whether or not she should tell her husband about them. OP wants to know whether or not she should introduce a layer of burden on sex with her husband, and whether or not she should impose that restriction on his enjoyment of sex with her. Her underlying question is simple: "Should I dump this burden or not?"

I'm sure the moderators are aware of the answer I gave, which was to tell her to seek a medical solution and not to tell her husband especially if there is no solution because at the end of the day, she has two choices to make: either she is going to be having sex or she is not going to be having sex.

Since she is going to be having sex, then if there is no solution in sight, what good does it do to beladen the man with this useless knowledge?

And again, if you peruse /r/deadbedrooms, will you or will you not find a multitude of examples of women talking about every burdening reason why they can't have sex? Whether it's "pains" or whatever? Almost every other woman in /r/deadbedrooms has some "pains" or some reason she couldn't have sex with her husband.

And the man is trying his best to be understanding, but at the end of the day, he wants to have sex without encumbrance, because sex is supposed to be a release and not a burden.

I'm sorry, I'd spend more time writing up more examples, but it's really not my business to try to determine the /r/RPW subreddit's direction.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeh. youre right. this has been in the last like 2 weeks. i noticed it too

[–]Land_Before_Thyme2 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

I gave solid advice to the single 28/f/black OP in the second linked thread. You neglected to mention it.

I am also biracial, which I mention. I ask if she is attracted to men of other races, as the pool of candidates of black UMC men is much smaller. The other big takeaway is that her lack of desire for children puts her at a distinct disadvantage.

UMC women aren't spinsters nor over the hill at 28. She is nearing the end of her prime, but she's not out of her prime.

Most of the infertility studies about women in their 30's have been debunked.

[–]nomnompuffs1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, I wouldn't usually reply to weird comments like this, but what is a "UMC" man/woman? Google says "UMC" stands for "United Methodist Church" so I had to assume that isn't the meaning you're going for.

[–]Land_Before_Thyme3 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Readers, note the dismissive attitude. My comment - calling out his mistake, re-stating facts, and providing evidence - is "weird" to him.

As others have pointed out to you, UMC = upper middle class. It's #12 on Acronym Finder: http://www.acronymfinder.com/UMC.html

[–]StingrayVC[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's weird because there were 21 comments on that thread and he picked out the one that was most in-line with the Goldstandard as far as RPW is concerned. Yes, he was dismissive because your comment is weird. He doesn't need to choose yours from the 21 if he didn't find it applicable.

This is a very good example of solipsism. Are you familiar with it?

[–]tintedlipbalm 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I assume it means upper middle class

[–]StingrayVC[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

[–]rpwthrway 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like the advice in this sub a lot, but since I've started following it my boyfriend has complained that he's more feminist than me and that I was raised too traditionally. That being said, he has no idea how many times I've bit my tongue when in the past I would have nagged or corrected him, thanks to the advice here.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I've noticed that there's been a trend recently with women saying "i love rpw but don't believe in all of it" or "i want a traditional relationship without the marriage" or some permutation of it. I think... "why are you here then?" Another thing is women coming here that might not be ready to hear the truth. They want to be rpw but still defend their shitty behaviors and attitudes. I'm not sure if they'll ever be ready but I'm always amazed that there are people who get upset with how the group responds to them. They want a crowd of 'yes ma'am' and all they get it truth as rpw see it. They don't try to do the reading or looking up similar posts to see what was said before.

I think the best posts are from people who have been lurking for a while and know what's up. They've already started taking steps and have done some introspection but genuinely need to hear some more advice and are receptive to it. Good post!

[–]tintedlipbalm 17 points18 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

"why are you here then?"

I think many women appreciate that a place like this exists. They might dislike it's associated with the red pill, that the mods are harsh, and many other things, but they can't find another haven that is as well kept as this, that doesn't devolve into a religious forum, or endless aimless whining. This is all kept by the strong modding they would otherwise complain about.

I'm always amazed that there are people who get upset with how the group responds to them.

When I first started lurking and had no account, I would feel the place was harsher than it should be. I felt like the advice could be portrayed just as well in a kind manner. But the more I read here, the more I saw that a lot of the times the message doesn't come through if it's not said this way. Sometimes to truly get it to come through, the delivery has to be harsh. But there's a lot of people that disagree with the methods.

The thing is I took the red pill because it made undeniable sense. I saw hypergamy and shit testing in me. It explained many things I've seen and been through. But other women don't really swallow it, they just like the traditional talk.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"why are you here then?"

Sorry. When i ask this I mean "what are you trying to get out of this post if not for response from a RPW standpoint". Not so much as "get out because you don't belong". I think I've seen a lot of people who post their different ideologies but still asking for advice here. I try to figure out what are they trying to get out of the post. Is it validation or to change their view or something else. They feel the need to state that they have a different belief as if it would change the advice that would be given to them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They feel the need to state that they have a different belief as if it would change the advice that would be given to them.

Hmm. I actually disagre -- generally speaking anyway, for some I'm sure this is true. I think prior to feeling like one "belongs", it's almost a disclaimer to avoid taking credit for something you haven't earned. I know that sounds a bit narcissistic of the sub, but I think it's more a function of the exclusivity of it. Not that we exclude people, but we are the minority. It would be similar to going to any sub that's specific to a demographic; you're like to come clean and announce you don't fit into the demographic in an attempt to be authentic.

Also, I think it's a framing issue. While the advice I may offer a poster would be the same regardless of who they are, I may frame it a little differently knowing their personal context.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I think the disconnect can be explained in that some people make great observations and come to crappy conclusions about them. Which is why many people, myself included, can accept rpw in practice (as op said, "find a good man, defer to him. Advice from the internet be damned"), but when the group talks about the theory behind it (as in a recent post about women being less logical) I find the conclusions drawn sometimes lacking. So while the reasoning behind what we do may be unclear, it doesn't matter to our greater goal.

Unfortunately (or maybe very fortunately) this sub isn't really for discussing the why of our behavior as much as the how, and one of the side effects of that will be the disconnect between those that buy into rpw wholesale and those that take it al la carte.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that is TBP in a nutshell! They only see us deferring to men and think we are abandoning ourselves in the process. Here are some things I have noticed

be more feminine = stepford wife/slave

defer to your man = you have no opinion

RPW = BDSM fetish

TRP = RPW's masters

RPW = TRP's sluts

[–]StingrayVC[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

maybe very fortunately

It's this. If we allowed discussion of the why, the rest would be utterly buried. Go to /r/purplepilldebate and you can discuss the whys a whole lot.

it doesn't matter to our greater goal.

Precisely.

those that buy into rpw wholesale and those that take it al la carte.

I like this. It describes it perfectly.

[–]always-be-closing 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It may not be entirely picking and choosing what to accept about RPW. I think a lot of the problem 'blue pill' styled men have is that they commit to poorly chosen women.

You know what I mean; the orbiters, the guys who think the High N Count 30 Something has changed, etc.

In that same way, I think a lot of girls are willing to defer, absolutely, but identifying 'good men' is simply not something easy in this day and age because the the culture is so pervasively sexual and rotten about it. They're willing to abide by the advice, they just don't know what constitutes someone worth deferring to and might think the better man is waiting somewhere a little further on.

Not saying deference isn't lacking, just that the problems of modern sexual culture end up hurting women's ability to choose just as much as they confuse men about what they're supposed to be doing.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the problems of modern sexual culture end up hurting women's ability to choose

I agree with this. We have lots of posts about this. It goes back to what /u/freebumblebee said, "will this help us to achieve our goals?" Singles have goals as well, and they need to pick a man who match those goals (or decide that those goals do not involve and man and be honest about that). It is still, at the end of the day, wrapped up in that single phrase.

The details we can help with, but to get caught up in them is missing the forest for the trees.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's this. If we allowed discussion of the why, the rest would be utterly buried. Go to /r/purplepilldebate and you can discuss the whys a whole lot.

I wasn't trying to say it should change, only that it would be a different approach. Perhaps if there was more discussion about the why, we would be able to convert more people to wholesale acceptance. But if the admins don't think that is priority, and would rather focus on how, that's a good strategy too.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wasn't trying to say it should change

I know. We get this question a lot, so I was just putting the answer out there.

[–]TempestTcup 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So while the reasoning behind what we do may be unclear, it doesn't matter to our greater goal.

It's not that the reasoning is unclear, because all the long term RPW were saying the exact same thing, and the reasoning is clear to us. The reasoning was unclear to you because it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

Women who are new to RPW pick and choose the things that they want to hear and they ignore most of the hard truths. It isn't until later, when something happens, that they realize some of the stuff they have been ignoring is true. That's when the light-bulb turns on, and the woman becomes a true RPW.

Next time a new person asks for advice, look at the comments that she replies to; it's always the ones with really bad advice. It's the ones that tell her what she wants to hear instead of what she needs to hear.

*in reply to this particular statement:

but when the group talks about the theory behind it (as in a recent post about women being less logical) I find the conclusions drawn sometimes lacking.

It wasn't that we were wrong or didn't understand it; it was because you didn't like what you read.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not that the reasoning is unclear, because all the long term RPW were saying the exact same thing, and the reasoning is clear to us. The reasoning was unclear to you because it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

I didn't comment anymore in that thread because I wasn't looking to stir up trouble. I'm still not. This is your house and I'm a guest here so if you would rather I drop the topic I certainly will, but in the meantime, I cannot help but take this bait.

First off, consensus does not equal correctness.

It's not so much that I didn't want to hear it as much as it didn't fit into the observations I've already made about the world. And it would be foolish of me to discard my observations simply because a bunch of people on the internet disagree, unless of course they could provide research and sources. Which in that specific case and a few others, I haven't seen yet.

Women who are new to RPW pick and choose the things that they want to hear and they ignore most of the hard truths. It isn't until later, when something happens, that they realize some of the stuff they have been ignoring is true. That's when the light-bulb turns on, and the woman becomes a true RPW.

I agree that the hard truths are hard truths and need to be accepted in order to be a good rpw, but believing that women can be at least as logical as men does not change my pursuit of self improvement and it does not change how I treat my SO, so it is still with in the confines of the op "find a good man, defer to him..."

[–]TempestTcup 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The consensus was that women are as logical as men. Didn't you read that? That's what everyone but the OP said.

It's just that women are more emotional on the average than men (which your comment displays :), and sometimes our logic does get lost in emotion.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Perhaps that was what ended up being said lol, I did check out of that thread pretty early. It seems to have been deleted since.

Anyway I don't think women are more emotional than men either ( I don't see how my post was emotional at all.) But that's beside the point, the point being, that someone can disagree with this point or that point, but overall still have an effective rpw mindset.

[–]littleteafox 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is great timing for me, I really needed to hear this. I've done a lot of reading into RP stuff, all the sidebar information, looking up blogs and so on and it can be kind of overwhelming. I started to think that I'd never remember all this great advice and excellent examples of how to respond to different situations. But it's really calming to be able to just relax and tell myself, at the end of the day, it's pretty simple. Find a good man, and defer to him. Be a good woman to a good man.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

so many good posts in here and what a great thread to start, stingray.

things i say may not be applicable to (general) you, so i don't give much advice.

i could go on and on about what makes my man happy, but would it really help you? maybe, if our relationships are similar, or if you and i have the same tastes or look. (and sharing my favorite nail polish color is kind of fun because i am super feminine in style, but that's not what i'm here in this particular sub for.)

recently i went to see "sound of music" in a theatre and the audience boo'ed at the end when maria said about her marriage and the joy she took in it: "you belong to him". i was like, what?! what is wrong with that? i think it's sweet. emotional intimacy requires surrender and it is not totally easy to do in a relationship. to belong to my husband is the most beautiful experience of my life. he'd fall on his sword for his family and he is one of the finest people you'd ever meet. happy to defer to my beloved. that's what it's about /the end/ :-)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow, that's sad. Do you wonder if people have truly internalised this cynical and contemptuous perspective towards love, or if most of them were booing to fit in with the crowd? I wonder how many ladies are going along with the scorn and dying just a little inside because actually, they would really love to be cherished like that.

[–]tintedlipbalm 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because women are not property, duh! ;)

One thing I tell my SO frequently is how I am his, entirely. His to do as he pleases. But clearly I am brainwashed.

[–]cats_or_get_out 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. I feel like this comes up all the time.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Find a good man and defer to him. Advice on the internet be damned

while i think this is absolutely true, i think it is also true that being RPW encompasses accepting the RP descriptions of male and female nature.

If deferring to your husband means acting out his cuck fetish by cheating on him and him being submissive, is that "RPW" because youre deferring to him?

I think what's being left out is that we are about finding MASCULINE men and deferring to their HEADSHIP and dominance, not to just any old thing. would you agree?

i mean there IS a set of beliefs you kinda have to share regarding the sexes to be RPW

[–]StingrayVC[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

is that "RPW" because youre deferring to him?

This is why I specified a good man. While there are many who might argue what a good man is, most have a good idea what is meant by this.

not to just any old thing. would you agree?

Of course. This goes back to specifying "good". I didn't want to go into too much detail because I thought it unnecessary and too wordy. A good man, as specified here on RPW is a masculine, dominant man. A high beta if you will (with alpha being more on par with Vox Day's sexual hierarchy rather than Roissy's). Even blue pill women have a general idea of what a "good man" means, even if they can't square that with the word dominant.

i mean there IS a set of beliefs you kinda have to share regarding the sexes to be RPW

To a certain extent, yes, but when we have women coming on here and going into the most minute details of their relationships, what they could be doing wrong, when all that is necessary is to say to their SO, "What would you prefer", we have a problem. If they can't get past the RPW theory and terminology because it hurts their feelings or what have you, but they can defer to a good man and be happy and make him happy then even if they don't believe it, but live it they are doing something right.

[–]stevierose3451 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

I am a lurker for the most part because it is so difficult to get a response published. Your damn bot keeps telling me I have not been around long enough. I agree with the basic tenets that you emphasize which seem to correlate with the "The surrendered Wife". I will tell you how they have improved my marriage and ask for advice on problem areas I am struggling with. For that to happen I have to be recognized first. What does on have to do for this to happen?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol message us mods and keep responding, we'll Get your comments out of limbo til automod ignores you :-)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You can message the mods when your comments don't show up, it's a common problem that every new account user has to deal with and it's only temporary. That said, your content seems to be showing up just fine now.

[–]TempestTcup 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Looking at your history, you have been out of moderation for months, and have been commenting just fine :)

Auto mod only lasts for a couple of days/comments.

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