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37

LTR/MARRIAGENeed Advice (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by ShoshaMosha

Using a throwaway account because I’m so lost and desperately need advice about my situation.

Background: My husband and I have been together since college. He was 18 and I was 21, yes I am 3 years older than him. We dated in secret because we both come from a strict religious immigrant household and dating wasn’t allowed. We’re also from different ethnicities so getting married was difficult since both sets of parents didn’t give us their blessings. We fought for our love and got married 3.5 years ago. Our parents are okay with us now (expect for my dad who refuses to speak to us). We’ve been together for a total of 10 years. We are both into fitness and above average in looks. He is now 28 and I am 31. Both working corporate 6 figure jobs. We bought our dream house 2 years ago and was planning on having kids this year.

Current issue: Since the end of 2018 my husband was introduced to the Red Pill community here on Reddit. He started getting angry about being lied to about male/female dynamics and life in general. He started learning about MGTOW and identifying with their beliefs. He went from a sweet sensitive man who is always thinking of me to an angry individual who would be upset with me for anything and everything. He introduced me to RP and RPW so I can educate myself too. We grew up pretty sheltered and all this new information was shocking as well as eye opening. During this period we’d constantly get into fights. He started questioning what I bring to the table and how he regrets his decisions in marrying me. Apparently he didn’t make me qualify he just handed marriage to me.

My husband started expressing these regrets after I denied him his sexual fantasies. He was never the type to comment about other women or look at them in my presence. He was always pretty reserved in this area. But lately he does and is very bold about it too. Expressing that he wishes he can have other girls but sadly can’t because of his commitment to me. This was so hurtful and confusing because I wasn’t used to this. He’s asked me if I’m willing to have a threesome in the future. If I’m willing to have Anal. I said no I’m uncomfortable with both ideas. Our religion forbids Anal and I’m not comfortable introducing other women into the bedroom. He said this might lead him into wanting an open marriage (just on his side & if I do it then it’s definitely over). He said he doesn’t know the future so it might never happen. This is when things got real bad. He started lashing out at me for just taking and never giving anything in this relationship. He said it’s not fair that I get to have the life I want (marriage,house,kids) while he doesn’t (other girls,money to spend on dumb tech toys,car mods). He said he’s not interested in sacrificing his life for me anymore. He doesn’t want the responsibility and he doesn’t see this as being worth it. Once we have kids more responsibility will be on him and he doesn’t want that. In order to salvage our marriage while not compromising my beliefs we decided to sell our dream house and get something more modest (or live in an apartment and figure out what’s going on with us). I wanted to do this so he feels free of the burden of mortgage (we both pay 50/50). I figured he would be happier if he had extra money every month to throw around and not worry about his monthly financial obligations towards being a homeowner.

But every few days he brings up the topic of threesomes and and we just fight. It’s been constant fighting since 2019. The major issue has been about him wanting other girls. Today he asked me what is the root cause of me saying no. I told him I didn’t sign up for this and he has never brought this topic up in the 10 years we’ve been together. How it’s unfair for him to ask me to be okay with all of this out of the blue. He said he understands now that I am unwilling to change for his happiness. He told me once the house is sold his plan is to move into an apartment of his choice. He will decorate it how he sees fit and he’ll do whatever he wants. I don’t get to have a say anymore. He says he won’t cheat on me because we are married and he wants to obey his vows. But he’s not willing to do this for the rest of his life. He said he’s going to work on himself (more muscle, exams for certs,new job) and he suggests I take the next couple of months to work on myself as well. He said this year is when we will decide if we’ll stay together or not.

I am hurt. I am devastated. I am confused. I feel like he is manipulating me into doing sexual acts that I don’t want to do. I don’t know if this is just a phase he’s going through (like his RP woman hating phase). All I know is my biological clock is ticking and I’m scared I need to restart my life alone. I’m not willing to compromise myself but at the same time desperate to give in. I have suggested what if I need time to adjust to this and will in the future. He said it’s too late for that now. My intentions have been tainted and he wants me to do it out of desire for him not negotiation. So I don’t know what is going on anymore. Don’t have a clue on how to proceed other than read books such as Fascinating Womanhood and The Surrendered Wife. I’m educating myself on how to be a good wife. Any advice/thoughts/suggestions would be helpful.

I apologize for this being so long.


[–]loneliness-inc61 points62 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

I strongly suspect this to be a troll post, but in the event that it isn't, here's my answer that has use for the broader RPW community as well.

Current issue: Since the end of 2018 my husband was introduced to the Red Pill community here on Reddit. He started getting angry about being lied to about male/female dynamics and life in general. He started learning about MGTOW and identifying with their beliefs. He went from a sweet sensitive man who is always thinking of me to an angry individual who would be upset with me for anything and everything.

I hear this sentiment from many women but it's almost never true. It doesn't even make sense. If being all sweet and caring towards you fulfilled all his needs, why the hell would he set out to ruin it? If he was happy in his marriage, he would have laughed at TRP and dismissed everything they said.

What's more likely is that he was miserable because he (rightfully or wrongfully) felt like he was giving and giving and not having his needs met. That's why he went looking. That's why TRP appealed to him. TRP only put words to his feelings and the community gave him the courage to finally stand up for himself.

To be clear: all we have here is your side of the story and that's an awful story. We don't have his side and none of us know what really happened. My response here is a generalization based off of what often really happens in such situations.

Think of a woman who endures painful sex or sex that isn't fulfilling to her for years and then suddenly puts her foot down and stops everything in a fit of rage. Her husband will legitimately feel bewildered. He'd say "but I thought you enjoyed sex all these years". He had reason to believe that because she went along to get along, but in reality, she hated sex with him.

So too with regards to your husband being sweet. Sure, your needs were being met, but were his needs being met? Were you perhaps blissfully unaware of his mounting dissatisfaction over time because he felt it was one sided?

This is likely why he went searching and why TRP resonates so much with him. He's experiencing TRP rage which is an very emotionally turbulent time. This is why he's acting like an ass.

Second clarification: this isn't meant to excuse anyone's bad behavior. This is meant as a likely explanation as to what's going on here.

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I second this. If I introduce my husband “the red pill” today, he would just shrug his shoulders and disregard it. I work my ass off to cater to my husband and my children so he feels no need to feel like he’s got the short end of the stick.

I personally found the red pill because I felt like I was being a bitch too frequently and wanted self improvement.

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Mine is RP aware but entirely uninterested.

[–]loneliness-inc5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why is he uninterested?

Is it because you treat him well and he's happy so he doesn't need to swallow bitter redpills?

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not conceited enough to think that's the whole reason, but I imagine it's part of it.

[–]Cellosrcool22 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Same. Which is ironic since he naturally has a lot of redpill traits and beliefs.

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's not really ironic, it makes sense. People who are 'naturals' at any kind of self-improvement probably don't join communities to teach them how to do it. I know I'm here because I still have so much to learn about being RP in my relationship.

[–]Cellosrcool21 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

True, but instead of merely being disinterested, he views the community as a “toxic ideology” based on a grain of truth. I had to commit to stop sending him RP articles because it was irritating.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was honestly unaware that anything was wrong in my marriage. He has never expressed complaints or had demands for me. I thought everything was fine and we were happy. I was wrong. I need to put in work. It's not a good feeling to know that he thinks he got the short end of the stick by being with me.

[–]Cellosrcool228 points29 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

“I strongly suspect this to be a troll post,”

I understand that this sub was/is frequented by trolls and journalists writing oversimplified hit pieces but it’s still striking to me how many posts get labeled trolling when I think they seem very genuine. Like any time TRP isn’t resulting in 100% domestic submissive bliss for a woman she must be trolling?

I remember one old post in particular which described my views almost exactly but everyone in the comment section was 99% sure she was a troll. It led me to believe that if I made a genuine post on this sub looking for feedback I wouldn’t be taken seriously.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for saying this. I was genuinely confused as to why some people would think this is a troll post. The advice I've gotten was worth the label. I won't hesitate to post in the future.

[–]loneliness-inc6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

There are certain things that don't add up in the story, which led me to believe it might be a troll post. That's aside from the overdramatic nature which is often the mark of a troll post. Nevertheless, I didn't say definitively that it's a troll, I just said that I suspect it to be. I also wrote out a long response.

Here's one example of why I think it's a troll post. The husband wants anal and a threesome. She said that anal is against her religion and that she isn't comfortable with another woman. Name a single religion in the world that disallows anal but leaves threesomes up to your comfort level.

[–]peacocktoast4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I get the sneaking suspicion that the OP is Muslimah, which would explain the forbiddance of anal sex. To my knowledge, Islam also disallows "threesomes," but is a little more liberal when it comes to husbands having other partners/wives, leaving it up to the discretion of those involved. Threesomes and polygamy obviously aren't the same thing, but they both have sleeping with others outside a two-person marriage in common.

There was some grammatically quirky phrasing in this post; I think maybe that's where some of the "dramatics" and miscommunications are coming from.

[–]loneliness-inc1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Threesomes and polygamy obviously aren't the same thing, but they both have sleeping with others outside a two-person marriage in common.

They only have anything in common from the prism of the Christian world view on sex and marriage. Religions that allow polygamy, don't allow threesomes and if they belong to such a religion, he would have sought that option a long time ago. This wouldn't likely have been part of his RP awakening.

[–]Cellosrcool23 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women are very often overdramatic

[–]loneliness-inc-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea....... 🙄

[–]UnbreakableFrame5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is the post that belongs at the top of this thread. That being said, if any of what she said is true, he's definitely not posting to MRP, which is what he needs to be doing. If she gets him on MRP making weekly OYS posts, there is an enormous chance that their relationship would drastically improve.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I had to look up what MRP was. I'm going to bring this up to him. Thanks for the info.

[–]Lethal-Procedure3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This.

​

It seems likely to me that the communication between OP and her husband was rather impaired at best originally and is still rather less than ideal. And if his complaints are about feeling taken, always giving, and constantly doing things relating to her wants/needs... then that is the core of why he found Red Pill. OP might disagree with him feeling this way but that should come after understanding it.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I still don't understand most of this. But he has told me that he's upset with himself for not speaking up sooner. He said he just didn't know any better. How was I supposed to know something was wrong if my husband never had any complaints about the way our life was? I was blissfully unaware.

[–]Lethal-Procedure2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand. And you are right, and maybe he needs to hear, that you can't make something better if he never speaks up. However I would caution you to also consider that if you respond consistently negatively to him or his perspective when he does speak up that this frequently can contribute to communication drying up between people as well.

​

If you want to potentially salvage things and this is the state of affairs ... you are going to need to do your best to both foster positive/constructive and open communication between the two of you as well as make him genuinely feel like you care about him and what he feels/wants.

​

The details of what you have said so far give the impression that it is not his opinion that this is the case, or has been the case, now / so far. As other posters have pointed out you seem very dismissive of him / his perspective and his interests. The extent of this isn't really knowable from what you have shared so far however given the overlap between this and the complaints/grievances of your husband about similar/closely related subjects ... it seems probable that there is some degree of underlying truth here.

​

Addressing it now with 10 years of habits/norm'ing to deal with is likely to be challenging. But that doesn't mean it is impossible. But even attempting it in a serious way will require being open to changes in the dynamic of your relationship and this will mean potentially having to learn to deal with things you otherwise may never have been willing to. Because that dynamic appears to have been in your favor so far, to the unhappiness of your husband, and he is (in a flawed human way) trying to push back against that.

​

His actions are imperfect and flawed. Likewise his communication. You should not focus entirely on what he actually says at this point because he is is still figuring all of this, and himself, out. Instead he is attempting to find / build his own understanding of things in order to make sense out of his own unhappiness and look for a positive way forward for himself.

​

Very few people are able to do anything like that without making mistakes along the way.

​

Try to see his behavior for the symptom of unhappiness that it is and look beyond / deeper than his behavior and instead address / heal the unhappiness itself. If you can do that your relationship will improve. If you can't, it will get worse or dissolve.

[–]TheBunk_TB2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There was something wrong but neither party was able to communicate it in a "language" that the other party would understand.

There might have been snippy behaviors. Passive aggressive comments. He might have hinted at something but it was missed.

I am a direct person but folks in my life don't respond well to it. Less blunt comments let something be their idea eventually.

[–]H2orocks3000-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m with you on the communication .with 38% of the population in the u experiencing emotional abuse on average of 7 years and it just being invisible to most people but just as bad as physical or sexual abuse over time.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the way their families related had much of that in it.

I woke up to being the first born of two narc parents after loosing a job I had for 6 years, and then also getting dumped and shit and then after hitting rock bottom only to find “oh my God!... so that’s why we are screed up and there was no making sense of anything...I see the light!”

Not saying that they had the same situation, but in many ways the fundamentalist families and ridgid ones I find lean toward especially the covert abuse style especially.

Also, they got married young. So based on the age this would be called a starter marriage tech. Not saying it can’t last, just those tend to have more likley hood of ending. Also, it seems like he never dated that much and had to learn about himself in the prices, her either. I’m 32 and been in a 7 year relationship and a bunch of others of different lengths. I had to learn by crashing and burning through some of those and even waking up to how my family was and even that I needed to go for more healthier people after repairing my Boundries and learning much better emotional intelligence.

Like all of this has occurred since college.

I will admit. I never knew how to really date - as in - not like dad had a philosophy on it - or that I had deliberetly learned more than just reading some articles here and there. Enter girls chase, which while it’s billed at helping guys get more sex. They actually are pretty good about helping explain how to be honest about what we are looking for and also how to just date properly so we can kinda own our own life. For instance, I had never even understood that I should be qualifying a girl much at all.

Nice shoes..wanna fuck....7 years later. Yeah that’s how the 7 year relationship got started.

But it did feel a bit trapped because I had no idea how to-do anything but just rush into a relationship (I’m fearful-avoidant Attatchment and it’s partly due to that) Now I’m realizing more and more the kinda women I actually need. One who is willing to push the boundries and keep growing together, to be an emotionally intelligent couple and to also create a secure Attatchment to each other but also learn that ironically responsibility is the antithesis of erotic desire. Everythingthat makes for a good relationship that is healthy kills erotic desire according to Esther Perel. She has a red talk on this that talks about how to bring it back.

Most people I have found unfortunately have past trauma and if someone isn’t as far ahead as me, or even aware of it, there is only certain degree of past trauma I want to invite into my life. (Trust me I have an ace score of a 5 and feel like I’ve had enough)

I get the sense that with the anal thing, I have understanding that there may be some guilt the same way fundamentalist evangelical Christian women feel about their bodies in general. Though I think the reason I’ve had anal with just about every girl I’ve been with since I discovered it my self was because I understood that if it hurt - it’s a no go. If you do it right-it shouldn’t hurt. If it is, your doing it wrong. Despite being probably the straitesf man you might know I def had fun playing with my self down there first. And I got to a point especially after reading about a prostate orgasm( it just kinda helped make it more exciting an idea basically). If you told me anal only if you could take a strap on to me. I’d prob say yes. At least to a couple of times. (There is a little bit more here than just up the bum for the guy but alas I guess I could sacrifice that feeling for deeper intamacy. That’s how I have looked at anal actually. Because you NEED to be EMPATHETIC when doing it or training them.)

I think this girl also needs to learn Boundries and consequences and go see a therapist.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ding ding ding. His parents are narcs and so is my dad. I was sexually abused as a child and have abandonment issues due to my parents. He has abandonment issues on his side as well from being dumped in boarding school his whole life. We both were each others first and we never dated or had relationships before getting together. We've talked about therapy, individual and couples. Just waiting for the house to sell for now.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This isn't a troll post but my current reality at the moment. This whole situation made me realize that I have been a mediocre wife. You're right there is no reason for him to react so strongly if he was happy with me. I'm clearly not the kind of wife he wants. I'm going to work on myself and improve in this aspect. I want to save my marriage.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why though? Why save the marriage?

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't see myself with anybody else. I thought we were going to last forever. Our close knit community will shame my parents and I don't want them to hear taunts from others over me. Especially since they've been so against my marriage since the beginning. You don't understand the social implications that will happen as a result of this. Besides that, I don't want to start all over again, not at this age. I don't know the answers to a lot of questions but one thing is for sure, I'm not in a good mental head space right now.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am religious too so I can respect that.

[–]0dineye2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I strongly suspect this to be a troll post,

Even if you do its kind of a shitty thing to say if you are giving them the benefit of the doubt anyway. Very mean girls.

[–]loneliness-inc-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

TRP is all about seeking the truth about the world. Facts don't care about your feelings. RPW tries to package things softly as much as possible but we never refrain from saying the truth just because it might offend you.

Besides, there's nothing mean about having a suspicion regarding an anonymous internet post that could be written by anyone. Get real.

[–]0dineye4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Besides, there's nothing mean about having a suspicion regarding an anonymous internet post that could be written by anyone. Get real.

No but it is mean to voice that suspicion if you arn't going to act on it.

​

TRP is all about seeking the truth about the world. Facts don't care about your feelings. RPW tries to package things softly as much as possible but we never refrain from saying the truth just because it might offend you.

This was never called into question and you are just virtue signaling.

[–]misplacedbirthmarks34 points35 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

People change, sometimes in devastating ways. You can either decide to follow him through this valley that sounds like it's designed to demote you to a position of concubine rather than wife, OR walk away with dignity. What he feels entitled to right now is a woman who does what you do (take care of kids, stay fit, pay 50/50 mortgage, stay loyal) AND let's him sleep with other women. Clearly you don't want that. So don't delude yourself into thinking you should change such a core value to satisfy him.

RP women generally lean towards monogamy anyway, I don't know what he's trying to convince you of?

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I've asked him to clarify what he means by wanting other girls. He's saying his desire for threesome always includes me. He wants me and another girl, he wants us to experience this together because its his fantasy. He said it might lead him into wanting a girl alone if one day I'm not in the mood. He wants me to be the type of wife that is down to please him in whatever he requests. He let me know that if things don't work out with us then he most likely won't ever get married or have kids. He wants to make this work with me but its frustrating for him when I shut down his fantasy. It makes him wonder if all of this is worth it. Marriage, kids, house, and a 9 to 5 isn't all he wants out of life. He wants to experience things sexually and he wants me to be there with him on this journey. But if I am unwilling to and shut it all down then he doesn't see this working out in the long term.

Now, I suppose I can get on board with having a threesome maybe in the future. I'd do this just to fulfill his fantasy and show him that I am willing to put his needs first. But I am not and will never agree to him having other girls on the side without me. I am not the type to let him sleep around. I don't know how to tell him this without making it seem like I'm shutting him down.

[–]MissNietzsche5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is why I am adamant about vetting that my partner not even have fantasies involving other girls in the first place. I couldn't even deal with the knowledge that the man I was with was suppressing his desires for me and to please me. I'm sorry, OP. Your situation truly made my heart wrench. This is terrible indeed.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, I think you should give him space to go through his anger phase of swallowing trp. I don't think you should compromise on your core values or how you want to live (nobody can force you to become the rp dream wife) giving into his behavior right now will only reinforce that anger gets him what he wants. Just hold steady for a few more months, put the plans you made together on hold and take a step back to let him work through what he needs to.

I agree that you should freeze your eggs and prepare yourself for the chance he will cheat or want a divorce (seperate finances, have a back up plan on where to stay) and I dont think you should agree to split the payments on an apartment that is in his mind only his and really you shouldn't buy anything as a couple until he calms down. Like weather the storm but dont stand out in the rain and then be shocked when lighting hits.

[–]SstonedinWonderland36 points37 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why are you hesitant to leave a man who wants to guilt trip you into performing sexual acts you are not comfortable with ?

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Because they've been together for ten years and this has only been going on six months? Because this is the man she wants to be the father of her children? Because they're married and (I assume) strongly against divorce? Lots of good reasons.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

100%. I don't know if this is a phase or if things do need to change drastically within our marriage. But I'm willing to do the work to save what we have. Divorce would just confirm the fears our parents had about marrying outside of our race. Divorce is unheard of within our family and if we do get one it will be a tragedy on both sides. I know we both don't want it to end if we can help it but this is a sensitive time. Of course, divorce will the last resort if things don't work out. I want us to go to therapy first before going down the divorce route.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've built a life with him. He is all I know. Divorce will be the last resort if we don't sort it out. I'd rather go to therapy and work on our marriage before calling it quits. He is a good man and I know he loves me. We both have issues stemming from our childhood and swallowing the RP has been hard. I know hes angry. I just don't know how to make him understand that I hear him but I have my own integrity to maintain. We both need to compromise but I'm not sure how.

[–]Theendisnearornot9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I’m not sure what religion you are, but I will answer this coming from a Christian woman who takes marriage and divorce very seriously. So it may conflict with typical advice you are getting (and again I don’t know what religion you are coming from - but I understand some of the similarities regarding honoring vows).

If you believe he is still a good man somewhere in there and this could just be some sort of “mid life crisis” scenario - I would stand by him. It will be painful and lonely and hard. It will be going against the grain of most advice and people will shake their heads. There’s is a verse in Peter that says “Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives,”. Honestly this is the religious version of The Surrendered Wife or The Empowered Wife. Being the person YOU want to be and loving and respecting him may show him what he has in front of him. I can’t promise that or give a guarantee. But I know for me - I believe my character and my spiritual well being doesn’t necessarily equal happiness.

Again, this isn’t saying if he is abusing you or cheating or things like that that you should put up with it. in that case, I think leaving would be a good thing.

If you are open to listening to a Christian podcast, there is one by Pastor Mark Gungor. He talks about separation for a time instead of divorcing. But it’s done in a very specific way. It is possible to get through something like this, but it may take really hard work on your part to not become resentful and angry towards him. That’s where self-care, spiritual renewal, and having support around you will come in.

*editing to add - while I’m not super familiar with RP on that side. I believe there tends to be that really angry period at the beginning that men go through when they start down that path and eventually levels off. That’s partly where my reply is coming from.

[–]AnnaAerials9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Amen. “If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you.” ‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭25:21-22‬ ‭

Although he is your husband, not your enemy, he is treating you in a hostile way. Do not waiver on your beliefs and continue in kindness and gentleness towards him, this will convict him.

If you are religious I greatly suggest you bring in a mediator from your church/temple/etc. At the least, he should be fearing God and that should reflect in his commitment and treatment towards you, which is currently unacceptable.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He treats me in a hostile way whenever this topic comes up. Other than that, we are normal and get along fine.

I understand what your saying about the mediator and i'm going to think about it.

[–]AnnaAerials3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m saddened to hear he treats you like that. In honesty, you have the right to leave him as he has committed adulterous thoughts, via a religious standard nullifying the marriage to an extent.

If you want to work on it, remind him, it’s you and me VS the problem- NOT you VS me. Also a suggestion is asking “why?”

An example very scripted convo;

“I want to do xyz”

“I hear you want to do xyz, that makes me uncomfortable. Can you help me understand why you want that? I want to understand where you are coming from, this would make me more comfortable”

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. I'm going to have a listen to the podcast.

[–]favoritesound19 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You make six figures. Have you looked into freezing your eggs? I understand you’re worried about your fertility. But do you really want kids with someone like this?

Freezing eggs will allow you to try fertility treatments with your own eggs later, in case your fertility declines.

This guy sounds like a nightmare. He’s so bitter and entitled. Even if he were sexually satisfied, and started being sweet to you again, would you feel like it was real? What kind of man says he loves a woman then lashes out at her for not letting him cheat?

If he’s really into red pill then he will understand that both men and women have a natural instinct to sleep around. But I bet if you asked him if you could ride the cock carousel he’d be enraged. Yet he’s asking you to let him cheat.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If things don't start to look up by the end of this year then I'm going to start researching freezing my eggs. This thought hasn't crossed my mind so thank you for bringing it up.

Its not that he wants to cheat but he wants to have the option is what I understand from his explanations. I may be okay with a threesome in the future but I am definitely never going to be okay with him sleeping around with another girl. Even if it is with my knowledge (he said I will always know & he would even let me choose the girl). I'm not comfortable with this idea. I don't know how to make him understand. He says this is just purely options, who knows if it will ever happen in the future. But if it does? I probably won't be okay with it and I don't want to invest more time into us only to have it fall apart in the future.

[–]raspberryjam14 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why does he think it's normal or just for men to get the "option" to sleep with other women (be it threesomes or sex on the side) inside of their marriage covenant? This is not being a good Captain. This is rocking the boat and nearly tipping it over because you find other women attractive. I would get into therapy quickly. Singles and couples. If you can afford to, do it sooner rather than later. Don't wait until the house is sold. Don't wait until he's got himself a bachelor pad and fixed it up just the way he wants it. I recently re-started therapy and mine is $15/session with insurance. There may be a low(ish) cost option and it could be temporary while you work through the big issues threatening to break up your marriage.

[–]Pezotecom4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He is making a power move, because he feels he has leverage. And he does, based on what you've commented, you have big red flags (to the eyes of TRP). Daddy issues, abandonment issues. He will try to push you to do all sorts of things just for the sake of it because he wants to be an alpha whose girl is submissive, but as someone else pointed out, that submission is earned. A girl is submissive because she can't help it, she'd be a fucking dog to be with this alpha male, and that alone excites her too. Given the fact that you are not that girl, he doesn't feel alpha, so he will try those power moves to fill the void.

Here's my advice, based on the fact that you're hitting the wall and time is not on your side.

DO NOT fight anymore, don't engage in discussions, but tell him that you love him and that you are sad things are falling apart because of RP.

Don't leave his sexual fantasies out of the table. Use them to your favor. Say it may happen but that you're not interested on it. After all, you have to bargain this situation and if you don't give something he will just walk away, that's his leverage.

All of this must be done with caution, in a feminine way. DON'T let the hamster run, DON'T lost your head. Just for a few months. If he keeps pushing and gets even pushier, then dump him. Remember, you are hitting the wall, it's not late to meet someone just yet.

But you need to start adding up things, is he worth it? Time's running.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to take your advice.

[–]red_pill_babe29 points30 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This guy seems like a total nightmare.

I’d cut my losses and move on.

You are still relatively young; you have time.

So sorry to hear this, it must be so painful for you!!!

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Five months of 10 years together and you are advising her to break up? What is this, /r/relationships ?

[–]lunelix2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Any man who says "I want to fuck another woman and you need to be OK with it, but if you fuck a dude, its over" is not really acting like good husband material.

You're right that OP feels conflicted due to the length of the relationship, but only time will tell if this is a phase of his.

[–]entropychange6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"Good advice" cut your loses, really? What is the longest relationship you have been in?

We only heard her side of the story, people don't just change 180. There seems to be more to the story than told above.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're right, I should have clarified that he isn't rude or mean to me in our everyday life. He just rants and rages when topic of threesome and anal is brought up (usually by him wanting to understand my reasoning).

[–]escapethesolarsystem3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lots of men go through an "anger" phase when they first find out about the red pill as they feel like they've been lied to / cheated for their whole lives. He's taking out that anger on you. I think it will pass, you probably don't need to do anything besides ride it out - presuming your marriage was OK from his perspective before he started getting into RP philosophy. If it was not, you have bigger problems you need to face. I suspect that because you are both high-earning and driven (and you are older), you've been treating him as an inferior, and he just put up with it (despite being internally unhappy), until he read TRP and realized that he shouldn't. In that case, you'll need to learn to be a wife, not a boss.

As for the threesome, I'm not sure if that's a red-pill thing. Maybe he's reading too much pick-up-artist nonsense. I would never recommend a threesome in a LTR - especially a marriage. It's just opening the door for all kinds of weirdness and drama in the relationship.

Also, it's possible he wants a threesome because he feels like getting married early deprived him of his opportunity to play the field, which is a core masculine biological drive, to spread your DNA to as many women as possible. He also may feel like he "settled" with you, instead of finding someone hotter / more feminine. In this case, you need to work on showing all the feminine qualities that signal to a man that you are a high value woman. Dress better, wear more makeup, care for the home, be more respectful towards him, build him up as a man - have more sex with him.

Still, trying to play the field when married is more PUA nonsense than actually RP philosophy - although RP recommends men not getting married (especially in the west where the legal system is against men) RP does not encourage messing up a good marriage (if you're already in one) just to sleep around.

If you want the highest probability of the best outcome, make it clear that you want to be his partner in his red-pill journey. That you're on his side. Tell him that you get his anger and he doesn't need to take it out on you, because you are backing his journey 100%. Don't fight with him (it takes two to have a fight). Just be sympathetic. As for the threesome, point him to r/askTRP; tell him to ask about trying to have a threesome in a marriage. He'll get sorted out pretty quick.

[–]TheBunk_TB3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Strange suggestion for a solution to one of his fantasies: Put a mirror on the ceiling above your bed.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Goodness, that is so sad that he would totally flip like that. I totally get you wanting to work it out. You have built your life with him, you love him. Unfortunately, if he is not willing to find a middle ground with you, you cannot just stay and be miserable.

If I am being truly honest, I would be willing to try new stuff in bed that I wasn't super comfortable with, just us two, in hopes that he would drop the whole "other girls" thing. It would crush my soul too much to ever see or know that my husband got intimate with someone else.

I would keep doing what you are doing if you truly want to be with him. Keep learning and do your best to become the surrendered wife he wants you to be. Please him as he requests and help him see that a life with you is not a life of missing out. In my view, marriage is a life long commitment and unless my husband beat me or continuously cheated I just don't think I could bare to part ways.

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I second this - anal won't hurt you (if you're careful), and if it's important to him then it's worth a try. Here's a link that might be helpful if you do go down 'that road'.

PS: for anyone lurking and downvoting - is there anything you've ever wanted your partner to do with you, sexually or otherwise, that they have done for your sake despite not being particularly into it? That's all we're suggesting here.

[–]Astroviridae3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's against their religion, which judging by this post OP takes seriously.

[–]MissNietzsche4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I did anal for an ex when I really didn't want it. I completely regret it. I don't have physical scars, but I do carry emotional ones now.

I'm not saying it'll mess EVERYONE up like that, but I do think it has the potential to for some people. Some people genuinely hate it.

In the same way, sure, a threesome wouldn't physically hurt me, but I would kill myself before having to endure that honestly. Watching the one I love having sex with another girl would be THE most painful thing in the world. It's like cuckholding.

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars-2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

If you do it in the wrong way, sure. But it's literally just putting the person you love's penis in a different hole to usual, so an otherwise emotionally healthy person isn't going to be emotionally scarred if she chooses to give it a try.

[–]MissNietzsche3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

That's how I tried to frame it at the time...you forgot to mention that that "different hole" isn't biologically designed to accept things backwards. It's why weakening of the sphincter and prolapses occur. Sure, there are ways to minimize this damage, but do not mistake it for being designed to accept things in the same way the vagina is.

You're right though. Even the most atrocious of acts wouldn't scar someone who was psychologically 100% healthy. That doesn't make the act any less atrocious though.

If people want to do it and accept the possible risks, I think it's great for them. I also think that anal is a lot less worse than breaking monogamy would be. But I don't think it's reasonable to expect anal from a woman who doesn't otherwise want to. It's very healthy to have boundaries anyway. That being said, it's something that should be discussed at the beginning of a relationship, during the vetting progress, so that it isn't an issue 10 years down the road.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That doesn't make the act any less atrocious though.

Do not moralize about your preferences.

[–]MissNietzsche0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Even the most atrocious of acts wouldn't scar someone who was psychologically 100% healthy. That doesn't make the act any less atrocious though.

I was speaking about a theoretical act in general ("the act" the the second sentence referring to "an act" from the first sentence) not moralizing my own preferences. That would be logically incorrect and stupid of me.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I did not remove your comment but I gave a warning because I think you are walking a fine line. It is implied in your word choice and advice though not stated outright. Just take care not to let your own preferences impact your advice on strategy for another person.

[–]MissNietzsche0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was more so advocating that OP shouldn't do it if she doesn't want to, as with any other sexual act, and vice versa, but note taken. I actually rewrote a few sentences that were precarious in that post because I didn't want to be misinterpreted, but perhaps I didn't rewrite enough. Note taken. I'll try to be more articulate next time.

[–]AnnaAerials3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I admit I would do the things he requests too. You are his wife, and although he’s going about asking in abhorrent ways, this may reveal that he isn’t being satisfied in the way he feels he needs or potentially does not feel connected to you. I understand your religion may say otherwise, but what happens in a bedroom between husband and wife is between them, and if you want to keep it that way you may find compromise needs to be made.

[–]durtykneesEndorsed Contributor4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

he’ll do whatever he wants. I don’t get to have a say anymore.

And what has he done to earn this?

No man is entitled to his woman's submission (unless that's part of your religion, but that's just setting things up for long term resentment imo).

Submission needs to be earned.

He has to earn your trust, your respect, and your devotion.

He has to convince you that he's worthy of leading, before expecting you to follow.

The first thing a woman needs to do in any relationship is vet, not submit. Since you're already married, it's sadly too late for vetting, but that doesn't mean the only thing left to do is submit.

He can want whatever he wants, but he needs to earn it --- just as much as you need to improve yourself to earn the life you want.

Drama, diseases, and whoopsie-babies are the biggest concerns when you're involving other people. Always be informed well enough to address these concerns.

[–]HB32343 Stars2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some amazing advice here about looking to your own role, so I won't repeat what is surely so painful to read.

But beyond that, it is hard for me to imagine that a faith that doesn't allow anal could actually for an open marriage... unless you guys practice, like, very fundamentalist Islam. But even then he couldn't have fwb's willy nilly but wives that he supports.

Where I am getting at is... I suggest also faith based counseling or to really try to get a sense of if faith is still even important to your partner.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

After reading through your post:

  1. It sounds like the surface-level problem is that you're ready for kids, and your husband is not. This is a common problem when an older (childless) woman engages in a long-term relationship with a younger man. I would caution you not to assign moral attributes to your positions. You're not unreasonable for wanting children - you're 31 and the window is closing. He's not unreasonable for NOT wanting children - he's 28 and just now entering the prime of his life. Your biological necessity does not trump his emotional well-being. You are not "right" because you want children right now. He is not "wrong" because he doesn't.

  2. There's probably a deeper problem in play here. It pains me to see you write about your husbands interests as "dumb tech toys". Would Bill Gates' wife say that about his interests? How would you react if he called your interest in a baby "dumb"? Statements like these make it sound like you don't respect this man enough to be in a relationship with him. Do you treat him as the same 18 year old kid he was when you met him? Because it sure sounds that way.

  3. Let's engage with reality for a moment here. Your husband is 28 years old. He's in good physical shape, has a six figure income, has no children, and society doesn't stigmatize divorce anymore. To put it bluntly, he is in-demand, and particularly so if he's 6 feet tall or taller.

Here's what I think is REALLY going on:

You use your age difference as communicative ammunition against your husband. You have no problem dismissing his needs as juvenile, and you probably roll your eyes at him a lot. He put up with your shit for years to have a steady supply of sex, but he's old enough now / in-demand enough now that he doesn't have to deal with your shit anymore. He tells you he wants anal and threesomes because sex-for-bullshit is the arrangement you've had with him so far, and he's attempting to renegotiate the deal. Failing that, he'll go take a better deal somewhere else, because you're 31 and your stock is depreciating, while he's 28 and his stock is rising. Your husband's reticence is not the fault of "the red pill" or any other terminology. It is a consequence of your inability to properly love and respect your husband for the last 10 years or so.

my advice is to split immediately. There are some really deep issues here and I don't see a resolution that works before your prime reproductive years are over. Get a quick and quiet separation / divorce, followed by a brief period (30 days or so) in nun mode before you move on to vetting other potential fathers for your desired children.

[–]entropychange4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Up to last paragraph I was in agreement with you. However, your advice to start looking for a new partner doesn't sound like a good plan. She would be repeating the pattern again in the new relationship.

I feel like she should listen to her husband, separate for awhile and go to therapy. In my view, jumping trains this easy is never good idea.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am a highly sensitive person. I don't think its possible for me to split and start looking for potential mates so soon. If things don't work out in my marriage then I think I will just focus on my career. I'm weary and hesitant to even think about getting into another relationship after this.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Actually, you know what, I'm deleting my comments.

I have too many questions.

  • What are his fantasies that you're unwilling to fulfill? The threesomes and the anal?
  • What (honestly) kind of shape are the two of you in?
  • What can you honestly admit that could have attributed to his anger all these years?
  • Do you nag? What would he say about you if we had him as OP and not you?
  • What changes has he made since 2018? Has he started getting hobbies? Does he work out? Is he dressing better? Is he self-improving? How?
  • if he's picked up hobbies and started self-improvement related things, then how do you feel about it?

  • What happened with your first house? Did you decorate it together or did you dominate decorating all of it?

  • how can he expect you to yield to him when he points the finger and cannot accept this is mostly his fault? (This is verbatim what MRP would say)

  • how does he expect you to ever develop a sexual appetite for him and work towards a healthy sex life when he throws your inadequacies in your face every couple of days?

  • how can he expect anything to garner the respect he craves from you when he is taking your trust in him, throwing it to the ground, and stomping on it when he tells you he wants other women and he blames you for things out of your control?

  • how can he expect you admire him when he destroys your confidence in yourself by reminding you that apparently you're not what he wants?

If I had him as an audience, I would ask him what the he thinks he's doing. If he was smart, there's a lovely article he could have been following this entire time and he probably would be on the road to getting a semblance of what he wants out of this marriage. Instead he's half-hazardly directed you over here as if he has no homework to do and assumes we're going to straighten you out.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

My answers are in bold.

  • What are his fantasies that you're unwilling to fulfill? The threesomes and the anal? Yes, threesomes & anal.
  • What (honestly) kind of shape are the two of you in? 2019 our fitness goal was to work on getting our abs to show before our birthdays (end of June). So far not looking like I will (only some definition) but his progress looks promising (he is harder with his workouts & more restrictive with carbs than me).
  • What can you honestly admit that could have attributed to his anger all these years? He's been in a religious boarding school from the age of 7-16. Hes been with me since he was 18. I suspect that he never got to live for himself and he regrets it. He got married at 25. Now he expresses that marriage is a bad deal for a man and he doesn't see himself sacrificing his life for me if i'm not willing to do things for him that would make him happy. He wants to enjoy and experience things with me but not at the expense of his happiness. Hes told me that if he had to do this all over again then I'd never be able to get him. Our first date would be a threesome and anal, and if I wasn't down then I'd never see him again.
  • Do you nag? What would he say about you if we had him as OP and not you? I don't nag but my decisions usually overrides his (mostly due to him not speaking up about what he wants instead). This has been a major issue that we are working on. I've always assumed this is what WE want to do. Not realizing its what I want to do and he is just going along with it.
  • What changes has he made since 2018? Has he started getting hobbies? Does he work out? Is he dressing better? Is he self-improving? How? We both got into weightlifting mid 2018, we donated and revamped our wardrobe. Buying fitted figure flattering clothing is a hobby of ours now. We're always buying new pieces and donating clothes that don't fit our ever changing style. We are both working towards a few IT certs that will help us get better jobs with more salary. We both live a luxurious lifestyle but our goal is to become wealthy not just rich. I believe we are self improving and working our way towards that goal.
  • if he's picked up hobbies and started self-improvement related things, then how do you feel about it? Yes, he has started modding his cars, weight lifting hardcore for abs, reading tons of books (2019 is the year of reading for both of us) and hes gotten back to his investments (took a break since end of 2017). It makes me happy that he is improving himself, I want both of us to be the best versions of ourselves. Self improvement is a life long journey. I appreciate him because hes educated me along the way. I've helped him work on some car projects, he created a weight lifting workout for me which I follow, hes gotten me a Nook so I can read my books with ease.
  • What happened with your first house? Did you decorate it together or did you dominate decorating all of it? He was in charge of picking paint colors ( he has a good eye for it so that was all him). He picked his office furniture and I picked my own office furniture. We decided on the rest of the house together other than our master bedroom furniture and the dining room set (I feel in love with both and wasn't willing to go modern style like he suggested).
  • how can he expect you to yield to him when he points the finger and cannot accept this is mostly his fault? (This is verbatim what MRP would say) He accepts that this is mostly his fault. He said he didn't know any better before but now he does. Life is too short to do whatever I want (traditional family life) and not enjoy himself (other women).
  • how does he expect you to ever develop a sexual appetite for him and work towards a healthy sex life when he throws your inadequacies in your face every couple of days?
  • how can he expect anything to garner the respect he craves from you when he is taking your trust in him, throwing it to the ground, and stomping on it when he tells you he wants other women and he blames you for things out of your control?
  • how can he expect you admire him when he destroys your confidence in yourself by reminding you that apparently you're not what he wants?

He's introduced me to RPW so I can read and understand how male/female dynamics is supposed to work. So I can better myself as a wife and get advice from you ladies if I need it. We are going to have a sit down today after we get home from the office to discuss us. No arguments, no fights, just expectations we both have moving forward. If we can't agree about the future then I suppose it is what it is.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I greatly appreciate you responding. Half these were rhetorical, but I feel like I owe you feedback based on these answers.

2019 our fitness goal was to work on getting our abs to show before our birthdays (end of June). So far not looking like I will (only some definition) but his progress looks promising (he is harder with his workouts & more restrictive with carbs than me).

Now he expresses that marriage is a bad deal for a man and he doesn't see himself sacrificing his life for me if i'm not willing to do things for him that would make him happy. He wants to enjoy and experience things with me but not at the expense of his happiness. Hes told me that if he had to do this all over again then I'd never be able to get him.

I cannot talk to him about this, and I don't really know what you could say to him to abate this, but I know what my experience was, and I know what TRP says about approaching these things. He's literally nagging you about sexual things, and he needs to understand that brute forcing this isn't going to produce the results he wants. He also needs to understand that you, as his wife, (and this isn't a joy for you to hear) are his TRP practice playground. You are a captive audience, and he can't even captivate you into giving him an ounce of what he wants, so what makes him think that some other girl is just going to give it up to him? You are easy mode. Single girls in the scene? Unless they're much less attractive than him, those single girls are hard mode, because I'm willing to put money on the idea that he probably isn't very well versed in approaching women.

Threesomes and anal is a physical manifestation of his desire to have a more sexually explorative relationship. He needs to understand that whatever the sexual relationship you two have together is damaged right now, and he's potentially damaging it further, and by outright demanding these things from you, he's putting the cart far before the horse.

I don't nag but my decisions usually overrides his (mostly due to him not speaking up about what he wants instead). This has been a major issue that we are working on. I've always assumed this is what WE want to do. Not realizing its what I want to do and he is just going along with it.

I'm not going to sugar coat. If you want this marriage to work, you need to work on this. Starting immediately, proposing any opinions on things should be from the two of you deciding together. Just simply stopping yourself before you say something and rephrasing should immediately help.

"We should go to Italy." > "What do you think about going to Italy?"

"No we're not going there it's too expensive" > "I feel like going to Spain would be cheaper"

"This hotel is better." > "I noticed this hotel will pick us up from the airport and we won't have to pay for a private car or for a rental if we go here."

"No I'm not doing this." > "I don't feel comfortable with said action because it makes me feel ______"

Stupidly and deceptively simple language changes, and you will be surprised how much rephrasing what you actually want to say into something collaborative works. Not only that, but it invites him to give input. Him not speaking up is his problem. But you can remedy this by inviting him to speak up as well.

We both got into weightlifting mid 2018, we donated and revamped our wardrobe. I believe we are both self improving. He has started modding his cars, weight lifting hardcore for abs, reading tons of books (2019 is the year of reading for both of us). It makes me happy that he is improving himself, I want both of us to be the best versions of ourselves. Self improvement is a life long journey. I appreciate him because hes educated me along the way. I've helped him work on some car projects, he created a weight lifting workout for me which I follow, hes gotten me a Nook so I can read my books with ease.

I was mostly asking this to see if he was reading things on the internet or if he was actually calling to action. Looks like he's calling to action, which is a good sign.

I feel in love with both and wasn't willing to go modern style like he suggested

So I'm going to nitpick you here. I understand you said he didn't historically speak up, but here you indicated he did speak up and you disrespected his opinions and made him feel less valued. He's going to have a chip on his shoulder about it for a while.

(The how can he expect questions were rhetorical)

He's introduced me to RPW so I can read and understand how male/female dynamics is supposed to work. So I can better myself as a wife and get advice from you ladies if I need it. We are going to have a sit down today after we get home from the office to discuss us. No arguments, no fights, just expectations we both have moving forward. If we can't agree about the future then I suppose it is what it is.

This is my honest opinion on what I know from you. A wise person once told me that men and women in relationships are different. In order for a man to be happy in a relationship, he needs to feel:

  • Admired
  • Respected
  • Needed

In order for a woman to be happy in a relationship, she needs to feel:

  • Safe
  • Sexy
  • Seen

Whenever one of those things is out of balance, conflicts arise. This is not necessarily RPW™ material, but it absolutely applies to the theories taught in both TRP and RPW. Your husband has ignored his needs because he's thought that putting you above everything else is how to be happy. And he's starved himself. What's the first thing people who deprived themselves of what they truly want for so long do? The tend to attempt to gorge themselves on whatever they haven't had.

If I was you, I would spend some time admitting that you have disregarded him for a long time and have attributed to him feeling this way. I would find 3 or 4 concrete examples, like how he wanted modern decor and you were so used to him just going along with what you wanted and you didn't realize how important modern decor was to him and you ignored him when he spoke up and you realize that made him feel disrespected in hindsight and that never was your intention and for that you are sorry. Going forward, you realize that as a married couple, you are a unit, and in order to bring value into each other's lives, you are going to work on making sure his input is heard and decisions are made together.

If I was you and your husband was my SO, I would tell him that regardless of what TRP says about marriage, he is in one, and if he is using this year as a discernment year, it's not fair to you that he is spending all this time in MGTOW instead of MRP and giving this one good shot at turning things around using the "12 steps of dread." (Please don't look this up, it's not fun reading for females, but yes, I'm fully aware of what it suggests, yes, my SO uses it on me, and yes, it works if done right.) Furthermore, according to TRP literature like the sex god method, he is approaching sex with you all wrong and is making rookie mistakes.

If he wants to save this marriage, then he has the power to do so. If you want to save this marriage, you also have the power to do so. If he doesn't, then he needs to walk so you can find a husband worth respecting so you can have a family.

At the end of the day, him ruling with an iron fist will damage this relationship further. Things aren't going to change overnight.

[–]imdar3ald3al1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Either the marriage hasn't been as good for him as you thought it was

Or he never got a chance to have his party years and sow his wild oats.

[–]LunarSunshine1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hold on to your values. If you aren’t comfortable with something, then he needs to respect that. It seems like he’s trying to open up doors to allow himself to have repeat affairs in the future, and if you demean yourself he will find it easier and easier to do so as well.

I would say until things balance out, definitely don’t bring a baby in to the mix right now.

[–]Rubenchick2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like he’s been holding back a lot of things. He’s imploding right now. Stand firm in your beliefs. Each time he brings up sleeping around...WALK AWAY. He KNOWS the answer. Sure almost all men “want” this. Once he can see that his pushing is getting him no where, he’ll either realize he’s being a douche or you’ll get divorced. Marriage has never been easy. You do what YOU want. If that’s being a caring and devoted wife, do that. He will see the error of his ways or he won’t. You do need to work on you also. Are you letting your femininity shine through or are you being masculine? That’s a you question. Figure it out because you can only control 1 person, and that’s not him. Hugs!

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. I’m just trying to survive each day with sanity. All I do is cry lately. I’m trying to adopt a stoic way of thinking. It’s probably the only thing that has made me stop being an emotional wreck. I will continue to work on myself.

[–]Rubenchick3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I prayed for you last night. Keep your faith. Focus on God.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you so much. I appreciate you.

[–]it_was_awiens2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

FYI, if your husband is claiming to be red-pilled or MGTOW, he's doing it completely wrong.. seems like troll-post honestly, why would a guy claiming to be TRP/MGTOW want an open marriage?

[–]stripethrowaway 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

I get troll vibes from this post but assuming this was made in good faith, it sounds like your husband is in the anger phase and quite frankly is an idiot for thinking that sending you to this subreddit will solve his problems with you.

My ex husband also decided to take the red pill and it was recently brought to my attention that he's also still stuck in the anger phase.

The problem with the anger phase, is that nobody knows how long this lasts, and there are other subreddits full of men who can't overcome the anger phase. Some let that anger consume them.

My best advice I can give you is to vacate your home and live with someone else for a while. Your husband's behavior is increasingly dangerous to your mental well-being and the way he is going about these demands is quite frankly, not "red pill" at all. First of all TRP is fight club. He's not supposed to be talking about fight club to you. Second of all there are ways for him to get his sexual needs met that don't include adultry, sodomy, or the mental abuse he is divvying out to you. If he can't follow the TRP guides properly and play the long game to get what he wants, then he can wallow in his anger alone without a wife to cook him dinner at night.

If what you're saying is actually going on, then I fear his bitterness becoming physical. Your husband is acting like a true nice guy when he should be focusing on becoming a good man. All of the RPW literature in the world doesn't help you if the man you are applying the behavior strategies to is dangerous. If he's going to throw you at a subreddit and expect us to turn you into some wife who magically gives BJs on demand and swallows, he's sorely mistaken.

Please get out of that house. I know it sucks, but it's going to have to happen.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think he is dangerous. He has never yelled at me before. It's like his anger comes in waves. We'll be fine for a few days living our normal daily life and then out of the blue we're back to arguing again. About the same damn thing.

[–]WarViper13370 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

We see this kind of behavior a lot over on TRP. He is most likely stuck in what is known as the anger phase after taking the red pill and it can last a while before men come to terms with it. It is extremely rare that women experience this phase since western society is built from the ground up to cater to a woman's every need. It is my personal belief that men who come from strong religious backgrounds tend to have worse anger phases. This is because religion is just another form of societal control exerted on men and women. I would know because I come from a strong religious background though I am now an atheist. How long the anger phase last is entirely dependent on the individual but I would say it takes at least a good full year for a man to fully digest what the red pill has to say. You have to realize it is a shock to the system to know you have been living a lie your entire life and that were just societies good little boy all along. MGTOW is especially attractive during this phase and it is how they get a lot of their followers. There are a handful of MGTOW's out there that I respect but many others are stuck in a perpetual rage mode and only fuel the flames of newly red pilled guys.

​

The emotions he is feeling are complex. He feels lied to by literally everyone around him including you even though you were just living life how society dictated. He feels like he missed out on the best years of his life to meet other girls and fool around. The best thing you can do right now is to try to whether the storm for a while. It is entirely possible he might chill out in a few months once the rage phase starts to pass. There are a lot of happily married RP couples but the relationship dynamics are a lot different from blue pill couples. You seem to be off to good start by reading some good material and evaluating what you bring to the table in terms of a RP relationship. You may have to step outside your comfort zone in terms of the sex life especially if he has spent the last ten years with nothing but vanilla sex. This doesn't mean you have to cave into demands of a threesome because that is something that both people have to be comfortable with for it to work.

​

And finally sometimes people just change and there is nothing we can do about that. If he doesn't come down from the anger phase and this is the course he truly wants for his life and you don't agree with it then you might just have to walk away from it all.

[–]Cellosrcool2-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“It is extremely rare that women experience this phase since western society is built from the ground up to cater to a woman's every need.”

As a woman, I’ve never left the anger/depression phase of TRP but you’re right that it’s very rare.

[–]NotGenie0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ask him if he wants your relationship to work. It sounds like he doesn’t want to work on your relationship. Talk to him when both of you are calm. Tell him to be open & honest because at the end of the day, if he doesn’t want it to work out between you two, you have to let go. Don’t bank on “oh let me hold on for a while, he’s going through things & he’ll change”, it usually doesn’t happen.

Take some time apart. Just stay away from each other for a while. I can tell that you love him but please, love yourself too. Love yourself enough to leave this toxicity behind, at least for a while. Give him some time & space & after that, if he’s adamant that he wants to enjoy the “bachelor lifestyle”, then walk away. You owe that to yourself.

You could try couples therapy during that time apart & individual therapy to work on yourselves. Try not to be aggressive & attack him. Speak calmly & be supportive. However, this doesn’t mean “be a doormat”. He’s going to walk over you if you keep enabling him. You need to figure out what he wants & if you’re willing to comply with that. If not, walk away with your dignity intact.

As for the biological clock, consider freezing your eggs now. Even though you still have time, specialists recommend that you freeze your eggs before 35.

I’m so sorry this is happening to you. You sound like a genuine person while his behavior screams toxicity. You don’t deserve this. People can change for the worse & it’s so hard to come to terms with this change. But for your peace of mind, get closure & accept it.

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I hear you. I’m just so scared that this may really be over. 10 years of investment. Never in my wildest dream did I think we wouldn’t make it. After all we’ve been through. Can’t help but think that this whole journey was all for nothing.

[–]0dineye0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You both lost sight of what you bring to the table. You both have given each other safe harbor to explore the world. You both had a safe enough space to see how the world has hurt you and come out ok, with someone that loves you.

[–]organicsunshine 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you have more sexual experience than he does? Were you a virgin bride?

[–]ShoshaMosha[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We were both virgins and each others first everything (kiss, holding hands, sex). We didn’t believe in sex before marriage.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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