TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

43

Warning as usual -long ass journal style post ahead. Read it or not. Your call. I think info is important or I would not have included it.

 

This is in part an update to this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/bxih8t/fr_losing_my_religion/

 

As well as a FR on what I believe to be my main event and an open solicitation of advice, calling me a faggot, whatever the hell you want. Let me have it guys. Time to knock the dust off and grow.

 

Figured out my religion was bullshit, wife still very religious- she threatened divorce - I immediately lawyered up and began gathering info (stay plan is now same as go plan) but took no action to initiate divorce... just notes.

 

She found out I talked to atty, had a meltdown, and now tries to re-frame me as the bad guy who is threatening divorce. Don't give a fuck, just STFU and execute.

 

Phase 1: once she calmed down and realized I wasn’t fucking around with her divorce threats anymore, she became submissive, fun, sexual. We’ve had sex nearly every day for a couple of weeks. Not overly passionate hysterical bonding panic sex but the dread was up and she seemed to respect me and desire me more.

 

As time went on frequency stayed high but quality slid closer and closer to just above starfish.

 

The church still pisses me off. Big anger phase that I’m trying to overcome. I'm working my way out and will tell you about it in detail if you want to know. For now, just know that I am leaving.

 

Fuck I once again see the need to STFU. I lose frame when I discuss my problems with the church with her because she feels so strongly about it and I get angry when she won’t look at it logically. Bringing up the church in any way is a surefire way to dry sex up for a day or more.

 

My inner validation whore wants her to realize I am not crazy but she’s going to just have to think what she likes while I lead us to freedom by example. A second 1000 foot rope to pull taut.

 

I’m so glad I have redpill. Porting the same tactics over from relationships/sex to this aspect seems to be the way to go.

 

Phase 2: As time has progressed we've entered a new phase where she will be bitchy, try to start fights etc. She will want to critique every conversation I have with people: "you shouldn't have said that" her hypergamy and solipsism are in overdrive.

 

Regardless of the fighting and general bitchiness, if I stay cocky- funny, STFU etc, she still fucks me. (you mean this redpill shit works? who knew?)

 

I also realize that I suck at comfort tests. Maybe it's the fact that with my increased TRT protocol I am at numbers approaching 8-900, or that I am just an autistic angry Rambo fuck, but I just tend to treat everything as a shit test (her comfort tests are shitty, so I have treated them as shit so far)

 

She is feeling the dread and losing her shit on a regular basis. Two days ago she sits me down and asks if I have been 100% faithful. My responses: "Why would you ask that?" followed by "If I decide to move on you'll be the first to know."

 

Then she asks if I have been looking at porn. (nope. porn is weak-ass shit for betas) answer laughing: "no, why?"

 

Now porn is a doubly big thing in the Mormon church. They are fucking obsessed with it. Mormon wives are taught that porn use is cheating and women are taught that bikinis and even bare shoulders can be considered porn. I shit you not.

 

They recently released 70 anti-porn videos in one day. They have support groups for the men who are "addicted" to porn (because no woman has ever looked at porn) and support groups for their frigid wives to bitch about their husbands who are addicted to porn. They create all sorts of shame which feed the beta male cycle. Gotta keep people sick so they stay in the hospital.

 

She then pulls up my instagram account where I have exactly zero posts, 3 followers including her, and follow about 20 gun companies and 3-4 weightlifting tips accounts.

 

Among all those is some gal in another state who posts pictures of kickass guns but also is gasp wearing a low cut top and even has some BIKINI PICTURES on her instagram. I honestly don't even recall following her and would laughingly own it if I did. It's a fucking nothing burger.

 

She gets one straight courtesy answer of No and then its right to asshole mode as she won't fucking let it go. "She's pretty hot babe, do you think she would let me shoot her suppressed m4?"

 

Cue snot and tears. I hug her but STFU.

 

Next morning I am trying to leave and she pulls me down onto the bed and makes me late for work. The whole time we are fucking she can't stop talking about how much she would like to watch me with another girl. (standard DEVI threesome fantasy that gets her going)

 

Outside the bedroom though its back to the shit tests about this girl and bitchiness. Shit test after shit test about this person I've never met over the last couple of days. She can't take the joke when I fire back a witty remark every time. Gets pissed. Cries. Not my problem.

 

Her hamster is in overdrive. She wants total access to my phone and location. She wants to read all my fucking texts and deconstruct everything I say to other people and tell me what is and isn't appropriate. She rants that she is a prisoner because I haven't let her run the finances for the last 2 years and I have my own account. (she fucked up the finances for 17 years and I make the household money, her money from her job is hers to spend. Deal with it) Telling me she will never have sex with me (ignore what she says and just keep initiating and fucking her when I want to fuck)

 

She told me yesterday that she feels like she is showing up to work every day not knowing if she has a job or not... (good. dread is working)

 

I'm reasonably sure this is a multi-day main event.

 

Yesterday we were working in the yard and after some initial shit tests she became a bit reasonable and we started having a good conversation until a neighbor walked over and I talked to him. As he walked away within earshot she starts tearing apart my conversation and telling me what I should and shouldn't have said.

 

It's getting dark anyway so I let her rant while I STFU and pick up the tools and head in without saying a word. She can't let it go and follows me around the house trying to start shit. I calmly inform her that I'm not going to have my conversations Monday morning quarterbacked.

 

She can't let it go. Alternating between yelling and crying and the same old tropes about how bad I treat her and the instagram chick and how she is a prisoner. Fuck if these are comfort tests she ain't gonna get any comfort from me by being a bitch.

 

I hop in the shower and she keeps opening the shower door. I am trying not to lose it and playfully splash water on her a few times until she follows me into the shower fully clothed. Still yelling.

 

Now I have a weakness. She knows it too. Not only that, she actively uses it against me. I suppose i should thank her for making me stronger. I've had it since childhood and I probably need therapy. I can't stand being cornered. It's like claustrophobia but only with people cornering me and straight fight or flight response.

 

So here I am naked, cornered and wanting nothing more than to go berserker and kill every living thing I can touch. I finally raise my voice and tell her to FUCK OFF. She can't stand profanity. I'm not allowed to use it around her and especially at her but she needs the verbal punch in the face.

 

I get out and dry off and just try to STFU the rest of the night.

 

Again, pre-redpill a curse word would have put me in the penalty box for a few days at least.

 

Nope. Last night she fucked me good, came hard and I pushed some boundaries/took what I wanted.

 

It's making my head spin to see it all in action.

 

If I analyze it I think where I miss the mark is I'm still a drunk captain when it comes to overall vision. She has asked what I want a couple of times and I am so fucking autistic/ blue pill conditioned I can't articulate what I want her to be without worrying about how I sound. I still give too many fucks. I want to be ready to lay out a vision for our relationship and what she should be to me once we hit the snot bubbles and reconciliation here.

Any pro tips on how to explain to her once she starts communicating overtly exactly how you expect her to be and act?

 

I need to work on that.


[–]Dickskingoalzz 14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Good on you. After living in Utah for 10 years I don’t think I ever could have comprehended the pervasiveness and toxicity of Mormonism without seeing it first hand. Good luck, stay the course.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks man.

[–]Maximus_Valerius 12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I want to be ready to lay out a vision for our relationship

Here's what I did. I explained it in a narrative story.

I first set the context: We are in our 90s and our great-grandchildren ask us how we met and what was our secret to such a successful marriage.

I started at the beginning, telling how we first met and the feelings I had. Then I moved forward through time, telling the stories of several positive but emotionally-charged events in our 20-year past. Explained how they made me feel. By this time, tears began to well up in her eyes.

Then I brought it to the present and explained how we had a tough time for a year or so. How it was tough on both of us.

Then I explained how our relationship entered a new phase, which was where I set out my vision (in past tense), like it had already happened and was part of the story of our life. It seemed to resonate with her and was not as overt/awkward as stating "I want this, I want that."

[–]alphasixfour[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is fantastic and something I can do.

Highly appreciated.

[–]UnPussified4 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

You Sir, a dealing hard-core Chick Crack.

Mystery’s TV show PickUp Artist even had an exercise where the guys had to tell stories to little girls. Little girls picked the winner.

BP Professor touched on this in his book.

Its an important part of Game.

Women’s perceptions are always about emotions, stories allow you to evoke a desired emotion, as opposed to you being a spectator to their emotional version of their own story.

Story-time is an easy way to sway women but you MUST be animated & sound authentic.

Make it sound interesting & they’ll give you the floor.

[–]gixxerthouguy 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Story time - A lot like a Mormon church meeting.

[–]Sepean 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Good work, man, it sounds like progress - still work to do, but you mention everything yourself. Just keep on holding frame, don’t give up, and if you mess up don’t fall back into some appeasing shit to make up for it. It’s better to go hard and be an asshole than lose frame.

Have you read the guide to the good life by Irvine, on stoicism? Negative visualisations are great for handling anger and provocations.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've not read it but will check it out. Thank you.

[–]ArborioRice 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If I analyze it I think where I miss the mark is I'm still a drunk captain when it comes to overall vision.

It could be that simple. If you're having your epiphany and taking your life in a different direction she may be feeling lost and not know her place. You're in effect blowing up her entire worldview. I forget where I read it recently here but it was something about providing a narrative for her to buy into which replaces the old narrative she operated under. You provide the vision/narrative and invite her to come along. Yea, when it comes to something as deep as religion it may be exponentially more difficult but the concept is the same: provide the narrative. It's up to her whether she joins or not.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. I definitely feel the urgency to do just that and quickly.

My personal narrative is a bit up in the air right now as I go through this eye-opening transition. The church provides a super detailed playbook of compliance and obedience that leave you an incomplete and underdeveloped human being once you leave.

I'm 41 but in some ways I'm fucking 15 years old.

It's interesting for sure, trying to navigate this for myself without showing hesitation or weakness.

[–]witnessthenomorebp3 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Everything I'm about to write, you already know. But having gone through this myself, it might be worth the read.

The dread she is feeling right now is 100% coming from the church issue. You know (As well as I do) that the ONLY reason you would leave is because of major sin and the guilt that comes from it. She is hearing that from EVERYONE, church leaders, the women in the Relief Society, her family. So while it is dread and will lead her to act accordingly sexually, you are also walking a very, very narrow tightrope. The road out of this is the true straight and narrow path. The exmo subreddit has some very good insight about leading your wife out of the cult and some have actually been successful.

Remember, the red pill is about being a man, a leader and stoic. If you are these things, you will be the man, father and husband which the church professes to be all about, without being part of it. Which goes to show you, if you are truly red pill you will be able to change your course and she will follow, because the one thing that red pill and that church have in common is the knowledge that women want to follow strong and awesome men. Which is why they try and turn all the men into bitches, so the strong men can get the money, adoration and control.

All those poor fools will watch you and want to be you if you are truly loving your best life for you. Your wife will eventually have a secret thrill that you are fucking awesome compared to every blue pill, poorly dressed lemming, if you give her a reason to respect you and follow you that is more powerful than living her whole life for some nebulous reward after she is dead. In the words of someone I've recently read, you need to become the man other men want to be and the man that other women want to fuck.

If the other women in the ward are telling her how great you are to lead the family and how good you look etc. she isn't going anywhere. If there is anything I know about Mormon women it is that they get a ton of anxiety trying to get validation from each other and expend all their energy trying to impress each other. If you are bad ass all those women will flirt and fantasize about you and wish they had you. That will be real dread.

As far as anger, lift to get that out and then let it go outside of the gym. I lost 40 years myself, and 2 of them all at once. It's done and gone and you aren't getting it back (stoicism) so just fucking live for this life instead of "the next life" and the turn around in her might just surprise you.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Solid advice. Thank you.

[–]DeepReindeer 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If there is anything I know about Mormon women it is that they get a ton of anxiety trying to get validation from each other and expend all their energy trying to impress each other.

This is so very true. I dated a few Mormon girls in college and I had no idea what Mormonism was, but I knew those chicks were super concerned with each other (they all knew each other). It actually played pretty well into my hands cause they were all trying to one-up each other.

[–]BostonBrakeJob 4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Her picking fights and general bitchiness is probably linked to your "I suck at comfort tests" statement.

You've turned your back on your lifelong religion and openly criticize it. She is still planted firm, so her mind associates herself to said religion. Guess what she hears and sees when you trash it and just....walk away....from it?

There's some insight to her perspective, maybe. And I tell you this not so you can hatch some new trick to win her over, change her mind or whatever. I tell you because you seem to be pretty wrapped up in your surroundings and may be missing the bigger picture.

If her staying with the church is a dealbreaker for you, then leave. Plain and simple.

But if it's not, then show her that instead of trying to win some philosophical debate with her. Instead of trying to change her beliefs. Instead of trying to change her, at all. But you can't show her you want her around until you, yourself, knows it is so. Do what ya gotta do to figure it out.

If you show her, and she still wants to leave, or still keeps the bitchy front up, well....there's not much you can do about that, now is there? But if you're going to send the message that the religion, and everyone who follows it, is a fucking retard, then I don't know what else you really expect from her other than what you are getting? Stop trying to plug in algorithms and start living your life. She'll come around or she won't.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Appreciate it. I've done my best to be patient and humble with my misgivings about the church in front of her. I haven't ranted or called it fucking stupid like I have done here. This is the locker room.

But I get where you are coming from.

I honestly don't care if she stays or leaves the church, but I do care how she acts.

Just like I am not allowed to curse in front of her I'm certain that any indication that I am not living according to her definition of righteousness will be similarly personal affronts to her, called offensive and result in shit tests and disrespect. We are talking about stupid shit like running to the store on a Sunday, or mowing my lawn with my shirt off or drinking a cup of coffee. Let alone me saying anything that jives with my beliefs and corrupting "her" children.

Also, the baggage associated with it has been and may become even more of an obstacle to the sex life I want with her etc.

So its not a dealbreaker in a theoretical sense, but it is potentially a cause for rifts moving forward.

[–]BostonBrakeJob 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I've done my best to be patient and humble with my misgivings about the church in front of her.

We say women are masters of subcommunication for a reason. If you are thinking, or feeling, it she will "hear" it. We don't have to say a word.

Just like I am not allowed to curse in front of her I'm certain that any indication that I am not living according to her definition of righteousness will be similarly personal affronts to her, called offensive and result in shit tests and disrespect. We are talking about stupid shit like running to the store on a Sunday, or mowing my lawn with my shirt off or drinking a cup of coffee. Let alone me saying anything that jives with my beliefs and corrupting "her" children.

We also talk about being your own mental point of origin for a reason. Stop projecting your insecurities. Square up and then make a decision. And this may come as a suprise, but tell her about them. We also say there's a time to be vulnerable, and this could be one of them.

Tell her you're worried about it causing a rift, then tell her why. So long as you're telling her only because you want to let her know where your head's at, and you have zero expectations of her to change anything....and you're ok with that, you will be fine. No matter the outcome. You'll lose "attractive points" in the short term for sure, but ya may gain something better in the long game?

but it is potentially a cause for rifts moving forward.

So punish her, and your family (the kids see it too), because of a potential circumstance? What do you suppose could happen if you went forward with this thinking something like "We have a different opinion on religion. She is hurt and confused by that, temporarily. I want my kids to grow up open to all ideas, and then choosing for thenselves. She may never agree, but I'll try anyway, because it's who I am and what I want, with all good intentions." ? Don't go creating your own self-fulfilling prophecy is all I'm suggesting.

Just a look from the outside in. Try it on if ya want, or let it hang.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You’re right. I need to kill the insecurities and fear here for sure. No more self sabotage. Great point on the subcommunication too. Shit I’ve been autistic.

[–]itiswr1tten 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck if these are comfort tests she ain't gonna get any comfort from me by being a bitch.

You're answering your own questions buddy. Deliberate failure is called punching yourself in the dick.

Comfort is not rewarding bad behavior (even though it feels that way at first). It's overcoming it and being the one who is above her, emotionally and mentally.

[–]amalgamator 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not so much vulnerable, that implies weakness. Your solid frame will actually make you resilient in the face of her invalidation. It’s about transparency and courage. It’s about intimacy and trying to create a collaborative alliance.

[–]amalgamator 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You have to let go of the anger and approach the orthodoxy she clings to with generosity.

http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/09-generous-orthodoxy

[–]alphasixfour[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great podcast. Lots to think about. Good find.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're right of course.

Early in the journey -months ago when I started to suspect things didn't add up I went to her for validation, thinking I might be missing something.

That is where I fucked up.

More recently it has only been when she asks me about it, but even then...total shitshow. Now I choose not to share. Sucks not to have a first mate that can help me chart that course but time to man up.

[–]0io- 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Well, on the plus side you're having sex with your wife.

You're pulling your wife into new and unfamiliar territory. Just keep your shit together, don't panic when she's panicking, and enforce your boundaries. Once she figures out you're not having a manic episode or something she'll probably follow you where you go.

I personally wouldn't try too hard to change any of her religious beliefs.

Maybe some day you should take her up on her desire to see you with another woman if she really wants to have a threesome with another girl.

I think you could probably fix your claustrophobia through "exposure therapy". You could probably do it yourself with a good friend or with a therapist. If you were deathly afraid of dogs, they would start having you look at a picture of a dog, then maybe standing outside a room where a dog is in a cage, etc etc until you can actually go into a room with a dog and pet the dog... So for your case you'd let your friend corner you for 10 seconds in some kind of safe setting, and then keep building up to where you can be cornered for longer without losing it.

Her cornering you in the shower is just a shit test. As you know women are great at shit-testing, and any weakness she can find in you is fair game.

Just make sure you keep improving. I would bet money that she'll follow you wherever you go. Probably in a year she'll lighten up on the LDS stuff and watch some porn with you or actually have that threesome she's always talking about.

Don't overthink things. If you want to let her look at your phone let her look at your phone. Don't explain or apologize for anything you have on there. If she wants to worry about guns and bikini girl let her worry.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

The claustrophobia is a rough one because I am not claustrophobic in non threatening tight spaces. I can crawl through a tiny cave in the rock no problem.

It's the act of cornering me aggressively or physically not allowing me to cope with a situation that I really want to leave by leaving that sets me off. Hard to duplicate for exposure therapy. But maybe I'll give it a try or seek some clinical help.

As for threesomes, might be fun, but not sure I want all the drama that comes with anything more than the dirty talk. (easy to say for the guy who doesn't yet have the game to pull one off) LOL

[–]0io- 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

https://www.verywellmind.com/cleithrophobia-2671737 I guess there's a name for it "cleithrophobia", fear of being trapped. Probably can't fix it overnight but just take baby steps and pretty soon wife won't be able to trigger you that way.

"I'm not trapped in here with you, you're trapped in here with me!"

Supposedly the success rates for curing simple phobias like that is super high, too. It's just one more thing to grind away on, nothing you can't handle.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That one is closer but not quite it either. More like a fear of being detained by a person.

Heaven help me if I ever get arrested.

In retrospect I should have gone Rorschach, trapped her in there with me pulled her the rest of the way into the water and really soaked her then gone for angry sex. Couldn't have hurt... LOL

[–]0io- 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Everybody has issues. Most people never work on fixing their issues. You're ahead of the game already for knowing that you have a problem and being willing to work on it.

Next time she does it pull her in and make a game out of it. You know she can't really trap you, so just remind yourself that she's shit-testing you and you're going to pass the test. Even if she succeeds in getting a rise out of you because you freak out for a second you could still recover fast and "win" the game as soon as you recognize what she's up to.

[–]screechhater 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Great work.

However, you are stepping in and out of her frame. Sexual fantasies mentioned behind closed doors and a self righteous cunt in front of the doors.

See the dichotomy ? Stay the course, on task, in frame and on your mission. Eventually, the Co captain follows the leader and stood questioning the comments related to separating from the church.

Your still scared, about leaving and that’s ok. She’s not fully on board. It takes time and you staying the course.

Battery of tests to see if you fail to actually separate or are you drunk captaining. Got it ?

Seriously, realize your post has a lot of she and her So what is it that you want ?

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks man. Dialing in what I actually want and giving myself permission to demand it in my life is the crux of this.

With the change of my faith I feel like I am rewriting my entire brain. So many hang ups and beliefs that don’t serve. Some of it is harder than embracing the red pill.

Back to the basics.

[–]dkirkpatr1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Dude I'm impressed you have a much tougher row to hoe than most. Over coming the religious brain washing is got to be a bitch. Your progress is impressive stay the coarse. I really hope you can pull it off and keep your family intact.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Appreciate it.

I am Born Again Hard.

[–]ixyfang 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Good post, alphasixfour. I think you are doing good.

My comments:

  1. Religion: it’s really just someone else’s frame.

  2. Wife always trying to get you to talk: you might be too available - not busy enough ...or... she is trained to think she can interrupt your space anytime she wants (negative) attention. So when she is acting appropriately, consider rewarding/reinforcing that behavior. The walls of your frame begin to dissolve if you don’t reinforce them - and with it, her sense of safety and security.

  3. Rage: lifting is good but not great. Your brain hasn’t developed over millions of years to defeat rocks (weights). TRT and weights help the body and the sex but doesn’t feed the brain-mind-spirit like combat does. Highly, highly recommend you find a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu school and start training. Your calm and SMV will increase exponentially and you will make friends with people (guys) that will listen to you, not because they want something from you, but because they actually care.

TRT and BJJ - the best therapy on the planet.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Great points man. Combat has been missing from my life since forever. I think you are really in to something here. Time to start looking at BJJ. I’m busy as hell now but too accessible. Time to pull away.

[–]ixyfang 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks,good to hear. You got this, brother. 🤙

[–]DeepReindeer 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Once I decided I was going to do what I wanted to do, some of the "busy" things fell right off the schedule. I realized that I was doing a lot of shit for validation and some shit I was trying to get done quickly so I could be more accessible. Rushing kills fun. Removing some of your accessibility is worth it, esp if you are bettering yourself.

[–]Aechzen 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Any pro tips on how to explain to her once she starts communicating overtly exactly how you expect her to be and act?

When she followed you into the shower, still running her mouth... How about cover her mouth with your hand, tell her her clothes are soaked, undress her, bang her hard in the shower.

She wants to feel feelings. Change what she is feeling.

STFU is a damn good start. You might want to reread WISNIFG for some assertive communication. Specifically, broken record pisses the hell out of my wife. Incredibly effective and so simple even Rambo can remember it.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah had the shower idea as I posted. Too bad I didn’t come up with it in the moment. Still fucked her good that night.

[–]Aechzen 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

One more short, to-the-point sentence I used early in unplugging was "I can't believe we're arguing about this". (To be clear, we were not actually arguing. She was talking, and I was not engaging.) Said with a tone you would use with a child who spilled their milk. After the first few times I said that, she knocked off her petty mouth running about that stuff; your wife may take more reinforcement.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Certainly open to trying it out. Heaven knows I’ve fucked it up doing what I’m doing.

[–]ManguZa 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

God she's all over the place.
Your weakness is not a weakness, all men are like that, we should being able to use strengh in these moments.
It's hard with certain women who don't know how comfort test properly. They want to be comforted but they instead of being respectuous they provoke you... hard times but they eventualy learn.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah it sucks feeling like I have to do damage to enforce my personal space and risk the almighty law coming down on me.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotus 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Didn't read a single thing about kids in that whole victim puke.

Why the fuck would you put up with this fucking harpy cunt? What value does she add? All I read is her shit testing and you failing miserably.

I have a weakness aswell. I always project myself into the situation when I read stories like this. We are all at different stages of our journey but this version of me would discard this woman. You do you man.

There are no victims in marriage, only volunteers.

Shit or get off the pot.

Tell me about your sixpack abbs....

[–]SteelSharpensSteel 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He used to be a Mormon, of course he has kids.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotus 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I stand corrected.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

4 kids.

She is a good mother. Otherwise would have Nexted her years ago.

Six pack abs are on point - until my next bulk that is. I’m fit, and I fuck.

Sex is perhaps better than ever. Certainly more frequent. Fucked her after work yesterday and she woke me and pulled me into the shower with her this morning.

If dread and the resulting sex were my only goal I’m 90% there.

It’s just the insanity and disrespect as I deal with this other shit that is the problem.

And yes I’m aware it’s my own fault. I appreciate the gauntlet of no BS asskicking that I get from the men here. I’ve never felt bad about victim puking because you get the real me and I get the ration of shit I deserve.

No use faking it. I’d rather get punched a few times.

I prefer full-contact red pill. Keeps me warm.

Mormonism is a high demand fundamentalist religion. People throw the word cult around a lot. And they’re not totally wrong. It knows no boundaries and is part of every aspect of your life. Makes redpill harder and in my experience leaving is like diffusing a time bomb. Gotta cut the right wires at the right times or risk blowing up everything.

[–]BobbyPeru 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm working my way out and will tell you about it in detail if you want to know. For now, just know that I am leaving.

I call BS. You are either in or you’re out. I lived in Utah, and I know how hard it is to be “out” completely. I’m sure you are going to DRER now about why you can’t get out just yet, but the only person buying that BS is you.

I think you’re creating a lot of unnecessary drama. If you want out, quit the church and let her keep going. End of story.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

“I’m sure you are going to DRER now about why you can’t get out just yet, but the only person buying that BS is you.”

Dude if I could predict the future like you I would be picking powerball numbers and not fucking around here.

No DEER. I’ve purposefully said jack shit about what I have and haven’t done with the church but here you go.

I’m glad you realize in part how difficult it is for people to get out. Add 40 years of deep conditioning to that and you are close.

Still not an excuse.

Once I made my decision and wrote my prior post I immediately informed my wife and senior church leaders. I told them I no longer believed, that I would no longer be paying tithing, surrendered my temple recommend and released myself from all callings.

Yes I met with the bishop as a sign of good faith and gave a brief explanation of where I was at.

I also for now agreed to attend with my wife as a non believer to help with the kids and offer her my support. It’s one hour out of my week and show that I care about doing this the right way.

Call it a tactical maneuver rather than going Rambo. Or call it deering I don’t give a fuck.

I’m out. A lot faster than most get out.

[–]BobbyPeru 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m glad you realize in part how difficult it is for people to get out. Add 40 years of deep conditioning to that and you are close. Still not an excuse.

I lived in Utah 4 years, and I fully understand the dynamics of trying to get out. I also understand the deep conditioning part.... better than most because reasons I don’t want to go into (unnecessary details). I have friends that are out (or so they say), and they tell me about it. I get it because it’s similar to the BP conditioning.

With that said, I don’t see harm in attending with your wife, but will they let you if you aren’t tithing? Does your wife still owe a tithing (half or something)?

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Anyone can attend on Sunday. I can no longer attend the temple. She is free to pay tithing on the money she makes. I don’t ask or care about her money. I won’t be paying it on my paycheck.

That will suffice for her to keep her temple recommend.

She may feel entitled to pay more as she feels entitled to them as family funds but she feels entitled to a lot of shit.

[–]egc6 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I read a lot of the responses, but not all. Why don’t you ever leave when she is freaking the fuck out and won’t let it rest. Over all great progress in a tough situation but you don’t seem to make her feel any pain from stomping all over what should be a boundary. If her dread is so ramped up imagine how effective walking out of the house and coming back several hours later or the next day would be. Go do something more worth the time besides be a punching bag. Remember DARE? Remove yourself from the situation. Seems like you tell her all kinds of things with no consequences to her ignoring it.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You make a very good point and it is something I have struggled to navigate since the beginning.

I have done so, disappeared and gone to a movie, even spent the night sleeping on my office couch once and she never asked where I had gone. Just didn't seem to do much at the time.

I've talked about it early in my MRP journey on AskMRP and would LOVE some advice on this.

1)Timing - she is often heavy on the extra harpy shit tests at the end of the day when kids need me etc. Our son has special needs and I worry for his safety. Not from her, but if I am not around at bedtime he is liable to try to escape the house and wander the neighborhood looking for me.

2) Cornering me again. She has physically attempted to prevent me from leaving. Of course this ramps up my anxiety/anger. I am much stronger than her and have 45-50 pounds on her but she is athletic and if she is going 100% I would have to hurt her to break free. She is stubborn enough to hurt herself trying to stop me. I am concerned about a domestic charge both for my kids/custody possibilities as well as my collection of guns under Lautenberg domestic dispute laws. If she really wanted to hurt me and caught on to being able to threaten my gun rights that would be the end of it.

3) the times I have left she has screamed at me for being a pussy and running away, abandoning the family and she has done so in front of the kids, weaponizing the kids against me and often sending them down the driveway after me "daddy don't go!" I hate for my kids to feel abandoned and I don't want that in the divorce fight later. Due to lateness of the hour etc, there is really nowhere I could take them with me and if I do I guarantee a call to the police for kidnapping would be made. She sees the kids as hers, entirely. And fuck if they didn't look like me I would think maybe they are. Its absolute shit.

Now I am not storming out and slamming doors but she knows that my strategy for controlling my temper is to remove myself from the situation and as soon as I make a move she catches on. If I quietly sneak out I may escape that, but I get to feel like a coward, kids still get the dad abandonment narrative (they text me daddy come home) etc.

[–]egc6 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't have kids and have found it difficult navigating myself. I don't think anyone can really give you a concrete answer for your particular situation. I do think it has gotten to this point because of inaction over smaller things that taught her how she can behave with no consequences, but that doesn't help you right now.

Number 1 is an excuse. If you wife is not capable of managing your son when you aren't home then she won't be when/if you get divorced. I do not believe it is wholly your responsibly for a child's care when you are not home for several hours or a day when the other parent is home. You wife should know him as well as you and know the risks involved. Again, I'm not a parent.

Of course this ramps up my anxiety/anger.

Get control of your emotions.

She is stubborn enough to hurt herself trying to stop me. I am concerned about a domestic charge both for my kids/custody possibilities as well as my collection of guns under Lautenberg domestic dispute laws.

I doubt she believes you have any follow through so she does what many women do, believe they can act how ever they wish with no consequences. That would make your choice crystal clear and you can move on with the divorce from and extreme person. She wants to control and own you in an incredibly unhealthy way. You need to find a way to enforce some boundaries waaaay the fuck before it gets to domestic disturbance or the law. Make a lesser boundary known and enforce it. That way she might actually believe you when you say that if she ever assaults you that will lead to divorce without exception.You have a somewhat christian background right? Ever remember reading "if you are faithful in the little things you will be faithful in the larger things?" You don't wait for a major event to finally do something.

  1. Fuck her. She is playing your emotions. I don't know how to navigate children. Maybe by being the calm oak infront of them while she a crazy person it can help. Do it enough times and they should pick up on the pattern. Calmy telling her that you will not be around her when she is like this while she screams and freaks out could have a positive impact. The kids are old enough to text huh. Atleast reassure them that you love them. You don't want to be a cunt and try and use them against the mother.

Sounds like you have a lot to do with regards to your anger. She is viewing this is warfare and like a game to win. You will lose as you continue to play. Treat her like a 10 year old girl and don't take anything seriously. Brush her off and don't take any of it seriously. Joke around AM A&A. If she escalates to unreasonableness, establish the boundaries and enforce them.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree completely. When the pattern is broken or unexpected for my son he tends to freak out. I care about him and his safety. This would/will be a problem if divorce occurs. He is 15 and getting to where I can't physically force him to do things either. probably still an excuse but history has shown a tough one to navigate.

If you ever have the police out looking for your special needs son in the middle of the night you will understand.

Control of my emotions is on me. I get it. If you read above about my phobia of being cornered or detained by someone I know it is a problem. Traditionally I leave the situation to deal with it. If I can't leave, I suffer, but my frame also suffers. Yes I know I need therapy and better coping mechanisms for it. Violence is the instinctual reaction. The fact that I have never hit her shows that I have exercised tremendous control of this impulse.

Leaving over small things I feel makes me seem like a bitch. Maybe I'm too far in her frame if I am worried about that. Also, it is typically not a lot of small shit tests, it goes 0-60 quick. Small, fitness test type shit tests I knock out of the park on the regular.

And yes, I agree that she is gaming it and fighting wars when she does it.

A&A and AM so far result in either a passed shit test and things going super well or the following me into the shower insanity. Sometimes the same shit test repeated and responded to the same way has the opposite result. Haven't figured out how to tell and frankly, I'm not going to live in fear of her reactions.

[–][deleted] [score hidden] stickied comment (12 children) | Copy Link

The number of "She"/"Her" statements here makes me think it's better for askMRP. It's a sure fire sign that the framing is based on an external rather than internal source. Also a surefire sign it's validation seeking.

Disclosure -- I haven't read it yet.

Mod note: I've removed this post because you threw in a tl;dr -- so I didn't read it. If you think people shouldn't read it, more than happy to make that happen.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

whoa there. Help me understand.

Tl;dr is against the rules now?

I literally get asked for one every time I post, often by mods.

I'm a wordy motherfucker - I get it.

Didn't think it was a reason to delete my whole post, especially one with solid content and 100% upvotes but it's your playground I guess.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

often by mods

Bullshit. Show me.

Tl;dr is against the rules now?

It's not. But it literally stands for "too long; didn't read" - as in, here is a quip that I'm going to put in for the people who don't feel the need to read this.

If you're going to put in the time and effort to write it, then why would you devalue your own effort by catering to the people who are too lazy to read?

Because by writing that, you're basically saying to me that "well, if you don't want to read it, that's okay. Here let me cater to your laziness."

Expect better.

When I write, when I add value, I expect people to appreciate the efforts. And if they don't, if they think it's too long, or it sucks -- that's not my problem, and it's their loss.

So if you're telling me you're okay with people not reading what you wrote, I'm more than happy to indulge your request by making it so people don't need to read it.

Go ahead and do your own due diligence. Check out the last however many posts on MRP and see if any single one of them includes any type of TL;DR.

The only acceptable TL:DR is - Go Fuck Yourself.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

It's cool. I'll accept the bullshit callout. Rather than dig myself a hole. I can find a few but none by mods.

I'll differ on opinion on the TLDR a little just from the way i have always seen it as more of a "marketing" summary to get guys to go back and read if it interests them.

I get where you are coming from and when you put it that way I agree. Thanks for clarification.

Mind dropping my kickass post back into circulation now so I can remove the TLDR and get on with my life or do I need to repost?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Market with your headers. Easy to summarize points with headers.

tl;dr's cater to the lazy. lazy people get banned.

When I see tl;dr's at MRP, I permaban anyone who's too lazy to put in the effort. Read it. Or don't read it. I don't care either way. But if men are expecting handouts because they're too lazy -- they can fuck off.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Agree. Now go fuck yourself.

Am I doing it right?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You can edit the TL;DR even as it's removed. You remove it, I'll reapprove.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You got it bro. It's gone. Thanks again.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Long, roundabout way of saying expect better from the people you're giving value to. And if they don't appreciate the value you bring, fuck 'em.

The /r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen mod came in here the other day, made a post. From where I sit, I know they were trying to add value, but they were approaching it from the lowest common denominator, dumpster fire perspective. "Shitty women are shitty" - no shit. I expect better of MRP. I expect better of the people who post here. I expect better of the people in my life.

And you know what, people either meet those expectations or they get filtered out. People are really good at meeting the expectations that are set out.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And that is a profound answer without you reading my post.

Set expectations. Got it.

[–]alphasixfour[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm cool having it moved over by a mod if more appropriate. Posted here as a follow up to my earlier thread here. Not a lot of asks here but I'm open to advice from guys who manage to read through it. :)

Just trying to provide context on this one with the she/her's but good point. I remember how many she/her's I had starting out and cringe as I think about how many are in this one.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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