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Just a quick field report here. I've been an advocate of TRP for many years, but didn't follow all the principles (laziness mainly), but had some success regardless.

Long story short, I started lifting properly last year, and this year worked hard and got a promotion to manager. We've recently had a lot of new staff where I work, and they're mostly 20-40 year olds. Weirdest thing - it seemed like I was getting less attention from women, despite my apparent successes. Whereas before women would talk to me all the time. One girl was on my team and pretty fit (let's call her Amy), and it was almost impossible to hold a conversation with her. She would answer with one word responses, and make any one to one conversations really awkward.

(Before anyone tells me not to shit where I eat - my company has a policy that if it happened outside of work it's not their concern. And I don't fuck about at work or put myself in a situation to get assraped with false allegations. I never take the lift, never alone with people, etc.)

One girl was there that I thought was really shy and sweet (I go for that type), tried talking to her and again - short responses and awkward laughs. I'd later found out that she'd kissed some other guy at work from my team, who was someone I manage. This guy wasn't exactly a beta, but he'd become submissive in my presence.

I got randomly invited out by this guy from work. And knowing these girls were out, I thought fuck it. Well, it only takes a drop of alcohol for the truth to be exposed. I was hanging around a 6 most of the night just having banter. By midnight, Amy was grinding against me and we're kissing. The 6 was grilling me about this - in a way that suggested jealousy. Then, even more randomly the shy girl grabs my hand to go to the smoking area. This girl had previously been slut dropping against the guy who invited me out. Then Amy comes out too. Suddenly I'm in this fucking surreal moment where Amy is on my chest, touching my dick, whilst shy girl is just to the side grabbing my ass. The 6 is yelling abuse at me (in a jokey way) and I'm suddenly the centre of all the attention. Amy yells something at shy girl about being a slut and leaves. Then she suggests we grab an Uber. We go back and I fuck her senseless. When I asked her why she was so quiet before, she said "I didn't want to get rejected". This girl is a fucking 9 and I'm a 7 at best and she was worried about me rejecting her.

Since then shy girl has said she can't wait to fuck me again, and Amy keeps asking me to come out to pick up where we left off.

So what is there to learn here?

Just because it looks like you're getting less attention at surface level, doesn't mean you're not progressing. It actually means it's working. Girls can easily talk to guys they're not attracted to, because they don't feel nervous in their presence. Next time a girl tells you they think someone is fit, watch how they act in their presence. They clam up and just laugh awkwardly at everything he says. It gives the impression that they're not interested. But this is just surface level, her panties are soaking. This is why it's important to keep walking the path. Don't stop lifting, assuming it's not doing anything for you. Women don't talk to guys they consider alpha, they just wanna fuck them. And I see this alot - guys and girls that don't seem to have any interaction and I later find out they've been fuck buddies for a while.

Also, with this being a field report, we can see examples of TRP here. Hypergamy is the urge for women to seek out the best alpha available. The guy who invited me out has apparently kissed all these girls. I arrive on the scene and literally steal all of them, including the one that was with him most of the night. But preselection kicked in (women are more attracted to men who already have the interest of other women), she witnessed me kissing someone else who was clearly DTF and this other girl saw her opportunity vanishing and acted so fast it gave me whiplash.

So keep walking the path fellas, your hard work is paying off even if you can't see it yet.


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[–]2INNASKILLZ2K18 173 points174 points  (20 children)

This is important for guys who think they always need IOI's to proceed.

Some women are shy, nervous and don't really know what to do when around a stronger male they're attracted to. They can be used to guys approaching, creating orbiters, and fending off guys they don't like.

When it comes to the guy they're interested in, though, many don't really know what to do and are afraid of rejection, don't want to look like a slut etc. Especially if the guy is on mission, focused and doing his thing.

I've had it many times when I would NEVER have thought a chick was interested, only to find out later that 'I really liked you'.

[–]l1ght- 59 points60 points  (7 children)

Me.

Always waiting for some type of IOI, usually eye contact. I find it hard to approach if I haven't seen the girl look at me once, I guess I just assume if she was interested she would look at me every so often.

[–]Gnosiis_ 67 points68 points  (6 children)

If you understand your SMV is high enough, then you'll start to get confused as to why you don't see clear IOIs from her. She could be shy, attached, acting indifferent, etc. Be cocky enough to just assume every girl is interested, because they probably are if your SMV is high enough.

[–]Moxiecodone 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the tip / solution. I can see that the higher your SMV the more you need to understand this shit because people become even more fearful of you if they’re attracted to you. It’s not as easy as sitting back and watching your DMs get flooded like a girl.

[–]l1ght- 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Thanks man, I really appreciate the advice. Will try to start feeling more value.

I had child/teenage issues I still need to get over. I’m confident now, approach is my only issue.

Once I’m talking to a girl I’m cool. Great in fact.

No trouble getting the number, no trouble going for the kiss, no trouble going for sex when we’re at mine.

Just the approach. It’s fucked and I’m slowly improving.

[I said the above somewhere else in this thread but would appreciate if you have anything to add]

[–]Gnosiis_ 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Well, I believe that confidence comes from success. The only way to achieve success is to work, study, fail, and repeat. Eventually you'll refine yourself to the point where you fail much less often. If you're slaying then there's nothing you'll be afraid of. Approaching despite not knowing if she's interested is redpill because it shows confidence if you get rejected. However it's a whole different kind of confidence to expect women to gravitate towards YOU. Because of that I suggest you focus on raising your SMV because at the end of day that leads to everything else. That's why this sub keeps preaching do it for YOU.

[–]growingstronk 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It stings less and less with each attempt. Also don’t have distractions while you’re approaching. You have to mentally put yourself into “approach mode.” If you’re listening to music, looking at phone, or multitasking, your distracted brain will take advantage and put you into default habits and behaviors. Whenever you’re trying to do something new and uncomfortable, give it your full attention.

Yes that means walking down the street intentionally just for pussy. Get used to it. Once you have some experience you’ll start doing it naturally, dw.

[–]Trenned_out 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Dude I shoot myself in the foot with this so much lol. I have a female friend (inb4 can never be friends with women) who made a comment once "I figured you'd be shallow and only sleep with super attractive girls because you're such a handsome guy."

No this is not a humble brag, I'm actually disappointed in myself because on one hand, nice compliment lol, but on the other hand, she was basically saying I'm always dipping down in SMV with the girls I "see."

Need to get out of my own head and stop relying on dating apps apparently lol. I clean up on Hinge especially but I'm taking the path of least resistance tbh.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you understand your SMV is high enough, then you'll start to get confused as to why you don't see clear IOIs from her.

This is key, you need to have self-awareness of your own SMV to pick up all the IOIs coming your way, otherwise you'll miss them.

[–]Pussyshack 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I've had it many times when I would NEVER have thought a chick was interested, only to find out later that 'I really liked you'.

Interesting viewpoint. I’m black, fit & muscular as well and what I notice from multiple women (especially white and minority women in the swirling movement) is that they go out of their way to avoid eye contact with me and exhibit closed body language. Most of the time I assume that they aren’t into black men & brush it off.

Can't help but assume that these bitches are pretty fucked in the head if they think closed body language will attract men. I'm not going to chase these hoes down, but men are supposed to approach. This post gave me a couple things to think about in my strategy. Good post regardless.

[–]odaklanan_insan 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I once read a story about Sultan Selim II, the Ottoman emperor. One of the female servants at the palace that he was attracted to was so silent. She never even once looked into the sultan's eyes.

He was a big muscular guy with all the fancy outfit of course. Once he walks out of the room, right infront of her and she collapses on floor to never get up again. The sultan is very upset, cause obviously she admired him so much, the anxiety killed her. He failed to see through her feelings and thus, never approached her.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas 4 points5 points  (4 children)

I've had it many times when I would NEVER have thought a chick was interested, only to find out later that 'I really liked you'.

Can confirm. A lot are also worried about being the first HB to come out and admit they like you, because they're worried the rest will follow suit and they'll be on the losing end.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K18 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Yeah, it's interesting when we start being aware of why they do it.

Really drives home the point that you really need to take the lead as a man, polarize and find out for sure.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, it's interesting when we start being aware of why they do it.

Because they worry about not being a guys choice if she's too early with the IOIs. "He'll get with me, then another girl will become interested, and he'll move on to her."

Really drives home the point that you really need to take the lead as a man, polarize and find out for sure.

Agreed.

[–]umizumiz 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Hypergamy can be funny at times.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yup. High SMV but think you're low SMV? Takes a while to pick up the cues.

[–]guyau 3 points4 points  (4 children)

If you're having an effect on a woman, she will always send out IOIs, whether they be intentional or unintentional. Either you can't see them or she's not sending them in the first place.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K18 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Maybe. Perhaps they were so subtle I didn't notice.

Perhaps it can be a case that they are shy, afraid of rejection and you can be so focused on whatever you're doing and mission, it combines to not noticing.

End of last year I had a plate, hot little Asian girl. I had seen her in class once or twice. Last class of the year she came up, initiated and asked for my number.

There was absolutely zero noticeable IOI's from her, ever. When she spoke though, she knew my name, what other classes I had/hadn't been in. She told me she even noticed my face when I turned around in class once, and the tshirt I was wearing.

For all of that, there was not a single bit of evidence this girl had ever noticed me.

She was nervous as anything when she came up and was afraid I'd reject her. She also said I seemed very independent and different.

So I do believe in some situations girls can not show there interest. Also may be a thing if you have that strong, independent quite vibe, people can be unsure how to approach you.

It's the same for guys. Plenty of time in my blue pill days I was attracted to a girl but never showed it. Low self esteem.

Women are human, too.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Perhaps they were so subtle I didn't notice.

You didn't have enough self-awareness of your SMV that you interpreted a lot of IOIs as simply girls being nice.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K18 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Actually, this resonates. It's been brought to my intention in a number of ways in the last few months.

I do have a habit of interpreting flirting and IOI's as women being nice. It's the old blue/beta in me. They old inner voice saying 'nah, she's just being nice', 'how arrogant to assume she's giving IOI's'.

One of my clients at work (rehab) I knew in the past before I started working there. She had counselling and my colleague (the counsellor) said 'she said she flirts with you all the time, and you flirt back'. I was like 'wtf? In absolutely no way did I interpret it as flirting.

With a few other girls, my friends who are girls are like 'she was flirting hard'. Lmao, I've come to realise that when I initiate I know for sure it's flirting, but I'm not so good at picking it up the other way.

I've been reminding myself that women don't talk to guys they find unnatractive. That I need to assume they are attracted.

I think I don't pick up on it, or limiting beliefs still get in the way.

Thanks for the tip, it's reminded me of something I need to work on.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One of my clients at work (rehab) I knew in the past before I started working there. She had counselling and my colleague (the counsellor) said 'she said she flirts with you all the time, and you flirt back'. I was like 'wtf? In absolutely no way did I interpret it as flirting.

I've read that a lot of girls tend to come on to their male therapists because they see him as a stable, rock figure in her life. They most likely are flirting with you.

[–]ThrowawayGoaway94 278 points279 points  (20 children)

Fantastic post, but the rule of not shitting where you eat isn't just there to prevent you from getting into hot water with HR or opening yourself up to a harassment lawsuit. Not shitting where you eat is crucial because office politics are complex enough without you putting your dick in your colleagues/subordinates. Don't make life any more difficult for yourself than it needs to be

[–][deleted] 103 points104 points  (5 children)

yeah you'll realize that shitting where you eat is so incredibly unnecessary when you can just go to the club and pull some rando who's equally hot or hotter with no worries in the back of your head and like 50 girls to choose from per night. my issue with shitting where you eat is that it always comes from a scarcity mentality.

[–]HillsOfMars 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Im adhering to the policy of nothing obviously flirtatious with coworkers but I gotta say its hard not to help just using your female coworkers to practice frame and anything else just nothing that makes it obvious to them or bystanders most im portantly. Im not trying to have work become an embarassing environment

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

well to be fair I actually use social interactions with girls at work to work on my game frequently. As In i take note of what works and what doesn't etc. etc. but for me that's just how i always am in social situations. Always being open to improving so everythings an opportunity for that. BUT i never actually follow anything through.

I did follow some shit through one time at a work party but that's cos I knew I was leaving the job so i said fuck it.

But generally, getting with girls from work is just 100% unnecessary drama cos girls are drama, and i don't like drama. MGTOW FTW, just kidding but you get my point.

[–]Zdeneksfilter 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I like to tell folks to watch all 6 seasons of Mad Men. Observe the dynamics Don Draper throws into gear just by how he rolls. One scene that's lived with me all this time involves Joan's (the curvy red head) sudden realization as to why Draper's never looked remotely interested in her, like every other male colleague in the Office.... "He's so handsome/high quality that he doesn't need to chase work place pussy to get some." A thing like that has to be a massive points multiplier in women's minds.

Of course, Draper breaks the "don't shit where you eat" rule a few times.... yet each time he shat where he ate, the ramifications were dreadful and just made his life needlessly complicated. And these women were far lower in value anyway than what he used to get outside the office scene. Great show, Mad Men is.... so many RP truths within.

[–]1Xexitar[S] -15 points-14 points  (13 children)

You're right bro. Peace.

[–] points points

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[–]1Xexitar[S] -7 points-6 points  (11 children)

You're right. Peace.

[–]Sciptr 15 points16 points  (10 children)

Screams lack of abundance. Blame us all you want, but you’re close-minded and acting act out of desperation.

[–]1Xexitar[S] -9 points-8 points  (9 children)

You're right. Peace.

[–]Sciptr 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Nope, just hamster away your way into one. Who will leave cause she will smell your desperation.

[–]modTheRedPike[M] 13 points14 points  (5 children)

You understand what he is doing to you, right?

[–]umizumiz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand what he is doing to the other user, but I just want my meat.

[–]HillsOfMars -1 points0 points  (2 children)

What’s there to understand am I missing something interesting

[–]modTheRedPike 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Look, I'm not trying to amog you or be a dick or anything. Really. But read the sidebar. Again and again, if needed.

This is my all time favorite post on the topic by one of my favorite posters (and who he referenced): https://www.forums.red/p/TheRedPill/5091/there_is_nothing_i_can_say_to_you_that_will_magically_make

And it's ok. We were all there. Take the time.

[–]1Xexitar[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Okay bro you're right. Peace.

[–]Anonymous-O 65 points66 points  (5 children)

Man, this post came at the right time. I have been experiencing this same thing since I have gotten more lean and muscular. Girls just don't talk to me the way they used to. But they always laugh awkwardly whenever I initiate a conversation. When SMV goes up they become intimidated by you so they don't make the same friendly you're-my-girlfriend chatter!

[–]1Xexitar[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Push past it. And give them a space to engage you on a sexual level. Most people feel uncomfortable with sexual banter at work, myself included. Take the sign that they don't want to talk to you about their boring problems as a sign they don't want you to see their faults / ruin their chance with you.

[–]frontiermarine 12 points13 points  (0 children)

In their minds they want to fuck your brains out. They hope that you approach and escalate as fast as possible because they're intimidated and are scared of getting rejected by a high SMV dude.

[–]miserablesisyphus 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I have thought about writing a post about this, but the real sign you are gaining value is when men start acting more interested in you (not in a sexual way). When you're high in value other men will notice and test you, respect you, and will be interested in you. Personally, I get more attention now from men than women. For example, guys will give me the head nod or start conversations with me about random things. They even try to act buddy-buddy. Betas want to be in the King's favor.

However, women seem a little more distant in public places. But, if you know what to watch for you can see subtle signs of attraction. For example, watch for the "hair flick". I can almost predict when a woman will do it down to the second. It happens most of the time in the peripheral, but sometimes you'll notice it when directly looking at the woman. Women will flick their hair really fast without using their hands by turning their head to one side really quickly. I think it serves a couple of roles: 1) It draws attention to them 2) It shows their long, healthy hair -- an indication of their overall health and 3) It serves as a preening mechanism.

[–] points points

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[–]Spets87 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This makes so much sense. Worked for me plenty of times without me realising why.

[–]mingamo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Spot on representation of my game.

[–]nofears 26 points27 points  (2 children)

Another thing worth noting is there is a fine line between fear and attraction in women. Sometimes they are one in the same. Took me a while to realize this.

If you are truly masculine and jacked as shit, she may be afraid of you but yet incredibly attracted. However if she's attracted, there will be subtle cues in her demeanor and body language as well. Learn to recognize these and proceed when they are present. She'll smile and blush like a little school girl.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Fear is a component of respect, and female love is grounded deeply in respect - for your power and presence. If she's not at least a little afraid of you, you're not attractive enough.

This is why egotistical females always accuse guys of being "intimidated" for not approaching her. All she's doing is projecting her own behaviours.

[–]1Xexitar[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I guess that's what I was eluding at here, but you helped to explain it further. Noticing the signs is the key part here and a hard skill to master.

[–]Dionysus1295 43 points44 points  (1 child)

Tl;Dr OP was gangbanged by a bunch of girls

[–]Trenned_out -1 points0 points  (0 children)

ahh the reverse gangbang, one of the more obscure porn genres.

But definitely worth searching lol.

[–]redpill77 17 points18 points  (4 children)

Women don't talk to guys they consider alpha, they just wanna fuck them.

This idea has been percolating in my mind for a few months. I've noticed that when girls are heavy on the iois, they're less friendly or talkative.

Thanks for helping solidify this lesson. Don't think it really clicked till now.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I've noticed that when girls are heavy on the iois, they're less friendly or talkative.

It's because they're working under the assumption that "If his SMV is as high as I think it is, he should be picking up these cues without having to spell it out for him." If you don't notice the IOIs, they interpret it as you not knowing your own SMV.

[–]redpill77 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yes, reading IOIs is a DHV. I find the DLV of missing IOIs can be compensated for with preselection.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah it can, but a lot of it depends on if the girl sees you picking up on other girls' IOIs. If they don't, and other girls still continue to send them, they'll still pursue you until you realize your own value.

[–]GhostMan0214 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Makes sense. I've been to a few places where the girl I walked up to couldn't even look at me. One word answers, small body language, little bit of sweating. I eventually walked off and joined my buddies. I asked a girl friend about that and she said that I was too hot for her, so she basically shut down. Looking back at it, I probably could have had everything and a bag of chips with that girl. Eh, borderline monk mode now, so who cares.

My ex was like that. First time I met her I was totally into her (we met in high school). I was the sorta popular dude who tried to include everybody including the weird kids and the quiet ones. So, I tried talking to her, she wouldn't budge. Years later, we see each other again, turns out we have a lot in common and very close proximity to each other but never saw each other, and she ended up being the best girlfriend I ever had. In the end, she went AWALT in the Army, but it was a blast while it lasted.

The older women don't give a fuck and they'll Hulk Hogan your pants off to get some brother! Lol

[–]Trenned_out 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a fine line isnt it? The only relationship I had that I actually committed enough it was a true LTR, was similar. Except she didn't shut down the first time. I remember her attitude when we first started dating was summed up as "OMG I can't believe this guy likes me!" She also said one of the first things she liked about me was how funny I was and that I was seemed like a caring guy, contrasted with the first night we fucked her saying "It's like you just knew you were gonna take me home and fuck me and you never even doubted it."

TLDR: I must have played just the right amount of alpha and beta here for what she perceived our respective SMV's to be. Basically at this point in my RP journey I was only studying the alpha stuff, and fighting my natural beta, but enough of it just came out that it worked in my favor haha.

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (4 children)

One thing I've experienced is when some girls pretend you aint shit but you catch them staring at you when you aren't looking haha

[–]1Xexitar[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

"I was just looking to see if you'd stopped staring!!"

[–]lenov 19 points20 points  (2 children)

If you wanna catch this sort of thing more easily you can use reflections in windows etc. You can observe someone without looking directly at them. If it looks like you're looking at something in another direction that makes people think they can sneak a look, but little do they know...

[–]Warren_Bateman 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Ah yes, the old mirror on your shoes trick. Classic.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 13 points14 points  (2 children)

+1

Absolute truth that is rarely noticed.

[–]modTheRedPike 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Done

[–]Zech4riah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be exact, are you saying that they just don't talk or generally don't show any signs of interest?

Not talking is quite normal but 99% of the time they express their desires otherwise (like lingering around etc). In other words, you get the attention but it's in more subtle form. - This is why I actually disagree with the title text.

[–]Zdeneksfilter 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Pook covers this somewhat in his (in)famous Book of Pook, albeit he constructs most of his observations based on lifting gains alone.

Basically, at 150 lbs and 6'3".... he was seriously popular with fat girls, as well as girls who were far from pretty. They'd hit him up all the time and even pushed IOIs hard on him. All other girls pretty much ignored him. Once he bulked up to 175 lbs; the cute girls began giving him eyes while the fat/unattractive girls' attention became significantly strained.

At 185 lbs, the cute girls became extremely awkward around him while beautiful girls increasingly began checking him out, holding his gaze for long time periods, etc. He started getting questions from girls that were basically digging at whether he was gay (since he looked the way he did without a steady girl.) Once he hit 195 lbs, the beautiful girls became very chatty around him while, in his words, very beautiful women began to check him out. The cute girls (below beautiful and very beautiful girls on the looks scale) were nuts about him at this point. One cute girl (6.0 - 6.5) just wouldn't leave his side... she had to be next to him all the time, had to borrow his stuff, had to accompany him everywhere, Etc. A female version of the beta male orbiter, if you may.

And here's where it gets really interesting. Once he pushed past the 200lbs mark, something which absolutely boggled his mind happened.... fat girls and ugly girls suddenly hated him. They wouldn't give him the time of day and would ignore him and avoid him if they could. But then, the very beautiful women were proper interested in him by now. One girl, a fitness instructor with perfect proportions, height, an angelic face and about 1 million orbiters would find excuses to stretch out their interaction times, reach out to him about random stuff, seek him out in rooms, etc. But the unattractive girls and fatsos? They seemingly had no time for him.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (5 children)

I've been experiencing this for several years now, even before finding TRP. I thought to myself "how come all these girls are so delighted to talk to some low SMV idiots and completely shut up and get defensive in my presence?". Also, if you are attractive don't be too aloof and proud. I don't know why, but high SMV men have to be more persisitent than betas, unless you are a celebrity (and a lot of celebrities are betas).

[–]IlIIllIllII 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Could you expand more on not being aloof and proud as an attractive guy?

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (1 child)

When you are too aloof and inaccessible(and attractive) it scares most girls off. They will secretly like you, but won't show any signs of interest. When you approach them they may act defensive and nervous. You are not only attractive, you are classy and smart. It is a different kind of attractiveness, not your handsome extroverted party boy. It is a generalization of course, you have to experiment(a lot) on your own before you find the balance. Talking about social media and online game..I got laid off of anonymous SM profiles MANY times, while my high SMV, travel pics had zero ROI. Go figure.

The best way to act is to show confidence without arrogance, be polite, but not particularly interested, push, pull. Save you stern gaze for other men and situations.

[–]Moxiecodone 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Solid break down, man. That’s an equation I’ve been wanting to solve in my own mind for some time!

[–]celincelin 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I don't know why, but high SMV men have to be more persisitent than betas

You win the finest hamstering of the week.

Instead of whining about “betas” on the Internet, try improving in real life.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's why I am on TRP, sergeant.

[–]JonhyAppleseed 9 points10 points  (2 children)

If chicks are always quiet around you, isnt it also a possibility that she has 0 interest in you?

[–]1Xexitar[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Possibly. Not everyone is the same. And there's always a chance she might just be quiet in general. But I prefer to go with the optimistic option, as that mentality can open doors whereas the anxiety route keeps them closed.

[–]JonhyAppleseed 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Great response. Optimism is key, anxiety is a buffer.

[–]WildCaveBear 10 points11 points  (8 children)

Great you have success with women, but the single thing I took notice off is that he mentions that another man is not beta but submissive to him.
This is really what I mostly see young guys do these days, even so-called "Friends", not a single tip of just helping each other, it's just hitting each other on top of the head, just to see who is submissive too who.

Happy to be a Sigma, can't care or waste my time doing that game, and can't care about going for those women who aren't selective. Women changing man the same evening, and alcohol need to be included in the mix..... I just let pretender alphas swim in that bucket of sh*t.

[–]coolnickname_bro 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Maybe because of the fact the he's OP's subordinate? See 48 laws of power

[–]1Xexitar[S] 5 points6 points  (6 children)

I meant that he is obviously successful with women, but he acts differently when I'm there. Not a single part of my post implied we were somehow dogging each other to see who's better, but I like the implication that I'm young (I'm not).

You realize that alpha just means leader right? A cockatoo can boss a dog around with the right body projection and attitude.

[–]WildCaveBear 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Maybe i'm a bit affected by reading other stories, just a thing in most stories, they mention they make other men submissive. Bully's also do that, and they aren't leaders.

Anyhow, it's nice you got the success you wanted, but have to mention those women don't seem like quality, and are they the same "advanced" age as yourself?

[–]1Xexitar[S] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Nah, I didn't mean it that way. We're bros. Its just there's always a more alpha person in a room, even if the room is full of alphas.

Depends what you're after I guess. I'm more TRP than MGTOW, got no interest in relationships but still addicted to pussy. So quality is subjective in that matter as I'm not screening for LTRs.

The girls are 21 and 22.

[–]WildCaveBear 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Alright, i'm just one of the few true "Sigma" persons, so I often don't even notice the game of who is more alpha, just doing my thing. (Which in my experince make 2/3 of other men hate you with a vengeance, either because they are envious or can't take I won't comply to there so-called status. The other 1/3 think your are above great... quality above quantity again :-) )

21 and 22... women are beautiful at that age, which is a quality in itself :-)

[–]Moxiecodone 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What is Sigma?

[–]bouncypoo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

A man who doesn't ascribe to the societies alpha, beta paradigm. Does his own thing , yet women that are attracted to alpha's are oft attracted to this type. Some call him an introverted alpha. Lots of awkward beta males refer to themselves as sigma just cause they got a match on tinder 2 years ago, but some guys genuinely are Sigma's. You will rarely read/hear about them cause they are on their mission.

[–]yungassed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You make it sound like a sigma has no friends, thats just a loser. Realistically, a sigma is just an alpha outside his normal social group. He appears to be a lone wolf but thats just because hes probably only there temporary and people do not know his reputation but can obviously tell that he is someone by the way he carries himself. Its also not that he doesn't care about social status of whos alpha/beta, but that he doesn't care about it with 'those people' since most likely is only there temporary. His temporary status is why the local alphas "hate' him (distrust is a better word imo). They know mystery is sexy to woman, and they know this guy doesn't give a fuck about the aftermath situation he would create if he fucks a few wifes and girlfriends because he won't be there to deal with it and thus is a danger to have around.

Why is mystery sexy to women but dangerous to men? Because women have a much stronger safety net, something men do not have which makes gambling much more risky. They will know exactly how much the local alpha is worth, but when a new guy comes along that seems alpha as well, he might have way more in value for all they know so its worth the risk of losing their current alpha for the potential gain, after all they have a billy beta on the back burner that is only marginally worse than there current guy will take them regardless

[–]rockyp32 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Yeah i Remember reading a post about a guy that raised his SMV incredibly by gaining a ton of muscle. He said he felt like he was a 9/10 or something he complained that he was getting less attention after raising his SMV from woman than he was before. I haven’t experienced that yet but yes I would imagine girls will start to act like how most guys do when there attracted to a girl they try to hide it and act disinterested. Just because he wasn’t getting IOIs doesn’t mean girls didn’t like him. He was saying he also didn’t want to approach unless they gave him a signal which I can understand cause an IOI definitley makes you feel more confident about making a move. But I guess raising your SMV is a double edged sword in that regard to a certain point you’ll get more attention but once you start getting pretty high SMV you’ll get less IOIs than you probably did when you were low . So once you become high SMV you have to approach nonetheless

[–]TwentyEighteen 7 points8 points  (2 children)

with higher SMV, girls may get less explicit with their attention due to fear of rejection, but they will display more iois. Iois are typically subconscious, something the girl has little control or notice over. That guy just failed to pick up on the subtle iois

read this again and I hope you realize how ridiculous it sounds

but once you start getting pretty high SMV you’ll get less IOIs than you probably did when you were low

You seriously think low SMV men get more iois than high SMV men? Lol

[–]1Xexitar[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I know what he means. But he's misinterpreting a girl being open and talkative with him as an IOI. Once a girl starts talking to me a lot, especially if it's about mundane shit or just moaning, I know I've lost their sexual interest.

It's easy to see why guys would think a hot girl talking to them is an IOI if they don't realize they've been friendzoned.

[–]rockyp32 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No I get what ur saying I’m just saying it’s harder to pick up on. Like they’ll act a little more disinterested st first glance. Yeah just like how I would be with hot woman I’d notice than purposely look way

[–]celincelin 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This is literally feels before reals.

He “felt” 9/10 or whatever despite evidence to the contrary, that’s his problem.

Perhaps lifting doesn’t help if you’re an idiot like that.

[–]rockyp32 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah he said he felt super high SMV he said he was huge from steroids and handsome. But he was still basing himself based on how the girls reacted to them and since there was no evidence in his eyes he felt shittier than before he was def seeking validation

[–]DeChef2 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Women don’t talk to guys they consider alpha

You have a good point in that they’ll talk to betas because they aren’t attracted to them. (Actually, it’s more that they see them as women and not guys.)

But this part is just wrong. They will do whatever to get with an alpha (and you yourself pointed this out so I just see this as an unintended mistake on your part).

[–]1Xexitar[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I guess what I meant was that they don't talk to alphas about irrelevant shit. They say enough to get dicked, and save the tedious shit for the betas and orbiters. But no you're right, they'll talk for hours with an alpha about how they want to fuck you.

[–]DeChef2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re really close. They’ll let the betas be their emotional tampons.

But they’ll flirt with the alphas. They aren’t ever direct though. Remember, girls don’t communicate like guys do.

[–]legend503 4 points5 points  (6 children)

What in the red pill should I practice to get these results?

[–]DeChef2 30 points31 points  (5 children)

Lift.

It sounds like you still need to read the sidebar as well.

[–]l1ght- 3 points4 points  (12 children)

I get discouraged when I don’t see girls looking at me, especially in a club environment.

Do you think it could be that they’re shy, or that they’re not interested, or that it doesn’t matter either way?

When I make eye contact with a girl, or when it’s clear she’s trying to get my attention by backing up into me - I’m incredibly confident and go straight for it.

But when I’m not seeing any signs, I get discouraged and my anxiety basically says “there’s nothing to say she’s interested so don’t approach”.

[–]1Xexitar[S] 20 points21 points  (8 children)

Shy girl at my workplace is now sending me pics of her in lingerie, telling me all the shit she wants me to do to her. Prior to Friday we've spoke twice. Shyness is an indicator that they're nervous around you. Just go for it. All that shit in your head is not reality, it's your ego trying to protect it. Man the fuck up and take the rejection if it happens. Better than regret.

[–]l1ght- 2 points3 points  (7 children)

I appreciate the encouragement man, thanks. Especially like what you said about the ego.

[–]1Xexitar[S] 8 points9 points  (6 children)

You are enough.

That's all you need to remember.

[–]l1ght- 1 point2 points  (5 children)

I had child/teenage issues I still need to get over. I’m confident now, approach is my only issue.

Once I’m talking to a girl I’m cool. Great in fact.

No trouble getting the number, no trouble going for the kiss, no trouble going for sex when we’re at mine.

Just the approach. It’s fucked and I’m slowly improving.

[–]1Xexitar[S] 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Best way is to approach girls you've got no interest in. Just talk to fuckers on the tram, bus, whatever. Ask for the time, remark about your environment, ask where they're going. And do nothing with it. Know in your head you're going to say "nice talking to you, bye" and keep doing it. It will become easier and eventually you can ask for numbers when you feel comfortable enough / talk to someone hotter.

Your anxiety is coming from outcome dependence.

[–]Moxiecodone 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Hitting the nail on the head.

I’ve found my game is better the less focused I am on my IDEAL/DESIRED girl.

Why does that work?

Because the obsession/possession that exalts the pussy and makes her special fucks up my ability to function naturally, normally around her.

The object of my desire isn’t the problem, but my fears of her are.

Visibly, externally, I will not display my reactions to not getting what I want or getting rejected..

But internally, I am having a fucking fit like a tortured child because I didn’t get what I wanted / I got rejected.

Where’s that coming from? The attachment to some outcome in my mind.

Approaching women can help you face a ton of mental bullshit.

[–]1Xexitar[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Again, outcome dependence. Your dependence on having the outcome you want and the fear of not achieving it is the problem. If you approach the situation without expecting an outcome, or caring, you will be more successful.

This is why IDGAF is so accoladed here. A 5'9 160lb guy who doesn't give a fuck will be more successful than a 6'4 jacked guy who is too afraid to even approach.

[–]l1ght- 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thanks man! Really appreciate the advice.

I have actually recently started talking to as many people as possible and it's really helping!

The store employees, the bus driver, random people that are lost, all sorts. If I keep to it, and implement your advice, I'll realise it's normal and be there in no time.

Thanks again man!

[–]1Xexitar[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just think how you would feel if even a 5/10 came and sat next to you on the bus and started talking to you. You'd feel like a stud right, even though your outward reaction might not, in fact you might even have the body language of "why is this random person talking to me?"

Assuming you rate yourself higher than a 5, imagine how some girl will feel if you cold approach and talk to her, taking her attention away from staring at her Facebook feed or whatever boring shit she's probably looking at. She's gonna be buzzing. Even if she looks apprehensive.

[–]DickMystery 2 points3 points  (2 children)

What's your game if they back up into you? I have had this happen a lot to me lately, but whenever I go for it it's all hard to get game. I kinda dislike this way of seeking attention since it's almost like a child asking for attention and you only get to look at the back of their head most of the times so you don't even know what you're approaching lol. Feels like there's no effort in there...

[–]l1ght- 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This was a couple of weeks ago, I had drunk a little and was just having fun. Being my crazy self, not focused on gaming.

I noticed this girl getting with some guy on the dance floor and realised she was pretty cute, but also looked uncomfortable as if she was going to leave him any second.

I kept dancing, and eventually, this girl moved away from him and slowly started backing up into me.

Somehow instinctively, I lightly touched her shoulder as if to turn her around. She saw it was me and came in closer.

I spun her around a little and just had fun together dancing.

I pulled her in, we made out, and kept dancing a little.

Nothing crazy, I was just direct with what I wanted.

[–]1Xexitar[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Assuming you're talking about kino - light and firm touch works incredibly well when alternated. And don't go for the kill straight away. Get close to her with a firm pull at the hips and spin her round, but give her time to feel all the emotions that come with such a bold move, and back off slightly as she gets closer. If she lets you pull her close, you already know she's interested so have fun with it. You'll build a stronger attraction by following it up with light touch as her brain melts wondering if you're trying to fuck her, or if you're just a sexual dancer having fun.

[–]TwentyEighteen 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I find it hard to believe they didn’t display any iois. Shyness itself is an ioi. If you notice a girl acting shy/nervous/awkward around you, while she’s comfortable around others then that’s an ioi.

[–]1Xexitar[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I guess the difficult part is noticing she's not shy around others as presumably you'd have to be there to see it, in which case she'll be acting shy.

[–]Casd12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

any deviation from baseline behaviour should be noted as a possible ioi

[–]russian_nigger 2 points3 points  (0 children)

funnily i was thinking for a few days about writing something similar to this and i'm glad you did. years ago when i started lifting consistently, i have experienced same observations as you. many girls would avoid eye contact completely in public places, short responses if approached, etc. at first, this put me down because i knew i looked better, but thought maybe my game changed because i became too confident and coming off more like an asshole. however, then i came to realization that they're simply too shy and intimidated. so i decided to test out the theory. instead of taking an L because she's not communicating enough, i kept pushing and carrying the convos until they opened up and became completely submissive. from that point closing was easy as pie. like i said, this was years ago, but to this day i encounter this and sometimes it fucks with my head that its probably me doing something wrong and then i have to remind myself that most likely than not its the woman that is shy and intimidated and i just use that to my advantage with mostly positive results.

[–]newacc4newlife 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What about the eye glances? If a girl is into you she can't help but look at you every now and then. You don't need to talk to them to see they are attracted to you, they can't hide it

[–]ChrimsonChin988 1 point2 points  (0 children)

she's a 9

I'm a 7

Bro, you either undervalueing yourself or overvalueing her. Probably both but you're for sure pedestalizing her. Haven't seen this girl but just going on you describing the situation she's a 6-7 max. A "9" has model tier looks/body. It's not the average plain jane.

Your problem is more that your SMV in your mind is still catching up to your actual SMV. Mental problem not a physical.

[–]Factor13th 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am sick of this alpha beta shit. They arent real.. Its just terms used by a beta pretending to be alpha and a when we make fun of cucked guys so we call them beta.

You either act like an actual man.. (Not what society dictates is a man) or you act like a white knight beta cuck.

No such thing as a beta.

Muscles and good looks don't make a man alpha either i would know i know friends who were like that and claimed to be beta until their wives didnt give them permission lol

I usually tend to stay away from women.. To much drama to much problems. I got time for me and hobbies.

Booty is nice but meh..

[–]kingofosiris 0 points1 point  (0 children)

great post. thanks for taking time time to post it. keep the faith

[–]OSaraiva 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Too true mate, there's several times in which i've heard "I didn't know what to say", as i look like a bit of an ambitious, intellectual person.

Before RP, i used to try to fit in whatever group i was in, and it brought me some misery. Now i don't give a fuck. And you know, you don't get immediate attention, but you can sense what's up.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children)

This is honestly true, I’m working on this but when I like a guy I tend to avoid and speak as minimally as possible

[–]1Xexitar[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Assuming you're female, the best indicator you can give a guy is to maintain eye contact and smile a lot.

And if you really want him to know you like him, give him a compliment. We never get compliments so it's a pretty strong signal. Just "hey you smell nice" or "that shirt looks good on you" is enough, and casual enough to pass off as conversation.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

True but I’m kind of jaded from reading here. It seems that all men want is plates:(

[–]1OneRedSock 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I see you seeking attention with a "poor me" and "I'm a different kind of girl" rhetoric, but I'm gonna give you a little insight anyway.

What you said is putting the cart before the horse.

I would estimate the majority of the men who are Red Pilled originally had someone they probably considered their "true love" or some such thing. Then something happened and they lost that relationship. From their viewpoint they think that everything they did was "correct" by BP standards, but still she left him. This may have happened across multiple relationships, or just one relationship that caused such an emotional trauma that they had to find answers outside of the BP rhetoric, because shit simply did not add up.

To swallow the red pill is to learn that true love doesn't exist, that there is no such thing as the happily ever after, and that despite all the things you do "right" -- by BP standards -- she will not be happy.

It's not that all men want plates; some men have always wanted plates, but many other men have had to learn to want plates because the "soul mate" hypothesis was proven false. When the "soul mate" hypothesis is proven false, the Blue Pill response is "she just wasn't the one; keep trying and you'll find the one"; the Red Pill response is "there is no the one, so focus on improving yourself and put women secondary to your goals since investing in them has a low payout".

If you want further examples, just look up Patrice O'Neal. On the Opie & Anthony show one time he talked about how he use to write sappy love poems and shit to girls that he liked; and with no response. He grew up and realized despite doing all the things he saw in media and movies, women were not giving him the time of day. He switched it up and got women's attention and he spit some of the biggest Red Pill truths out there about women and inter-sexual dynamics before he passed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Also I tried this with my guy friend who I find cute (I complimented him on two things he was good at on separate occasions casually) and nothing really happened, but I don’t know. I’ve never been good with boys

[–]1Xexitar[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Avoid things we're good at. Make it personal.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Nothing to say about plates huh lol Edit- his comment was removed

[–]HurricaneHugues 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Still not tonna work. Inexperienced guys are dense as fuck. A compliment no matter how personal will always be seen as "she's just geing nice". If the dude doesn't want to believe that a girl can be interested in him sexually/romantically, no matter what a girl does he will chalk it up to herjust being nice to him.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your post made me realize my situation in highschool.

[–]pacjax 0 points1 point  (0 children)

going for "types" of girls is a rejection buffer

[–]xdppthrowaway9003x 0 points1 point  (1 child)

(Before anyone tells me not to shit where I eat - my company has a policy that if it happened outside of work it's not their concern. And I don't fuck about at work or put myself in a situation to get assraped with false allegations. I never take the lift, never alone with people, etc.)

This is your hampster in action. Stop shitting where you eat.

[–]1Xexitar[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay bro thanks for the advice.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The girl is a 9 and you are 7 at best. Lol.

Obviously the paradigm you are using is flawed.

[–]RPthrowaway123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is me, checking in after a long time away from the sub. Right now I'm in peak race season (triathlons, half marathons, ect) and it's strange. I got more attention a year and +20lbs ago than I am getting now. It's been like this all summer. Your post really helps explain it a bit, it's the reason I decided to get back on trp in the first place.

[–]ahg1008 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What we don't realize is that 99% of the people don't have their shit together. When they see someone who does, they get intimidated. If your value rises beyond a point people dont talk/socialize with you because you remind them of their own insecurities and failures. Its like you are a screaming advertisements that tells they they're mealy mouthed weenies! It has little to do with women. Both men and women act similarly. Don't give a shit. Be the goddam 5th horseman of the apocalypse and fuck and conquer. Don't you get it.. it's good that the world is become feminized and beatfied. Its easier for you to fuck n make more money or whatever it is that you want more of. Just fucking go on becoming better.

[–]1Xexitar[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

True af. I think this is why if you're successful it's important to cut loose sometimes so people can see you're also chill and fun. Successful usually comes with an implied maturity, which can be intimidating for younger women. They need to see that your life is in order but you can still give them the drama they crave.

[–]ahg1008 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes..people crave drama and stoic strength.. trick is knowing what to display when... and being ditached with either at your core..

[–]ChouDai -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Can confirm, this is true girls get intimidated easily by alphas

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