TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

39

LTR/MARRIAGEServitude (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by LettingHimLead

I’m fairly new to the sub, so please forgive any misstep I may take!

Married 17 years, together for 20. Have a 14-year-old daughter and a 10-year-old son. I’m the primary breadwinner, and I work from home so I have a lot of flexibility in keeping the home and with the kids. Husband has an office job in the construction field. We were high school sweethearts, and both of our N counts are 1 - each other. We’ve had our ups and downs as all married couples do, but after this many years, I certainly feel like we’ve hit our stride.

Husband is not redpill. I’ve talked to him about it before, sexual strategy, concepts, etc, but he’s not really a social media guy so he’s never read into it on his own. He’s a manly guy naturally - I definitely have the type of personality that could steamroll a man very easily, but he never allowed it. That’s how we ended up married. He was the first guy I ever dated who would put me in my place.

I want to go the long haul. He’s the only man I’ve ever loved. The only man I’ve ever trusted (my dad is a monster - and the other men in my family also had many, many issues that have plagued them their whole lives). I’m trying to submit, but it’s not my natural state. My mom ran everything, because my dad was useless. Then after 25 years of marriage, there was a sudden divorce. Had she not owned her own shit, she’d have been in big trouble.

I’m not a girly girl. I don’t wear make up. I hate the way it feels. The way it smells. And the way it looks. If I wear a dress, I wear shorts under it. 😬 I can’t walk in heels - I look like a newborn baby deer. He seems good with all of this. The only feminine trait I have is my desire to serve. I home cook 3 meals a day for my family (kids pack their lunches and hubby comes home for lunch). I prepare their plates. I wash the dishes. I wash and fold their clothes. I strive to make life easier for them all, and I enjoy every piece of it.

My hobbies are cooking (including grilling and smoking meats), drinking beer, we boat and have a place at the lake and spend summer weekends there, playing cards, letting my husband explain what happened in a football game for the umpteenth time, and doing most anything with my girlfriends, who I’ve been blessed with and who hubby loves, too.

My question for those of you with 30 and 40 years under your belts - is this enough? Is submission enough without the “in-your-face” femininity that so many women seem to be blessed with but I wasn’t. Are there other things I can do to exude femininity without feeling like I’m playing dress up?


[–]FluffyLlamaPants1 Star48 points49 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

As a 40-something woman, who spent most of her life enjoying "boy hobbies", working in a predominantly-male field of work, and overall having 50%of my interests being traditionally "stuff that only guys like", all I can say is if it feels like you're playing dress up - you're playing dress up. You gotta do you.

Being feminine isn't what you're wearing, or the music you listen to, or your hobbies. Heck, my mother, the most genuine Woman I know, is a geophysicist who spent her youth working jobs most men would shy away from. And yet, there's absolutely no mistaking her for anything other than "all woman, all the time".

Heels feel weird? They should! If you think about it, we invented this weird-ass things to strap to out feet and somehow decided that it's awesome.

Makeup feels weird? See above. Hint: it's kind of a weird concept. I like it, don't get me wrong, but if you look at it from a point of view of an alien visiting our planet, for example...it's pretty weird.

Bottom line is, you have it in your heart to keep your home clean, full of good food to eat, to make a nest for your children and husband, to be the warmth, the shelter, the embrace that another person wants to run to when there's nowhere else to run to. And you've done that for longer than most visitors here had been alive for. THAT is, imho, is the core of what makes a Woman. The feminine. The Divine compliment to the Masculine.

And Everything else: the heels, the makeup, the embroidery, the flowers, the dancing and singing ...well those are just extra features. Some are a little weird, some are wonderful, some are just fun sparkly things. But they don't define the quality of a woman underneath. Not "servitude", but a heart to serve. A heart to soothe. A heart to be the shelter.

It's not just merely "enough". It's everything. You do you.

[–]LettingHimLead[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not a crier, but this response made me tear up. This was beautiful. Thank you.

[–]dangernoodle883 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It sounds like you're a wonderful and hardworking mother and companion to your husband. Superficial expressions of femininity (nails, dresses, etc) are not as important when you're past the point of attracting the attention of suitors.

However, there is more to femininity than merely servitude. To be feminine is to also to gracefully receive. Creating opportunities for your husband to satisfy the masculine drive to provide. Ask his advice. Ask him to help you with things that he's better at. When he offers to serve you in some way, accept graciously. Let yourself be weak, needy, and vulnerable for brief moments. Talk freely about your wants and desires, but never with an air of entitlement, coercion, or passive aggressiveness. I think those of us who love to serve squirm a little at the thought of being served. We might even feel like we don't quite deserve it. But psychologically, men feel more drawn to us the more the provide, because they crave that feeling of masculinity.

There's also huge value in keeping things alive sexually. You haven't mentioned much about this but it is so key to maintaining your role as wife rather than morphing into a mother. And I can't stress how important it is to get in the best physical shape you possibly can. It is way, way more important to men than they let on, because they are gentlemen.

I highly recommend picking up The Surrendered Wife - it's really opened my eyes into the minds of men! And it is good at hashing out more nuanced topics and psychology rather than just saying "feminine=pink and dresses!!"

[–]LettingHimLead[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I will read it! Thank you!

I agree regarding my fitness, and it’s something I’m actively working on now. I’m also working on the frequency of sex. We haven’t had any issues with attraction yet, and I’m mindful not to starfish. I’m willing to perform the actions and positions that he enjoys, and I enjoy giving him pleasure. But frequency should definitely be addressed.

[–]fosho_away10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You sound like a fantastic woman, wife, and mom. Clearly he loves the way you are, as evidenced by the 17 years of marriage.

Are you staying in shape? Are you kind, supportive, and Have a sunny disposition? If so, I think it’s ok to relax and be yourself. Not every guy needs the stereotypical bells and whistles of femininity. But if you’re curious, I suppose you could ask him and see what he’s into. Then you can surprise him once in a while for a treat at least.

[–]LettingHimLead[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

All but the staying in shape! We’ve certainly been lax in that area, but we’re both working on it now and having fun with it.

I could certainly discuss with him, but he’s really a great man and wouldn’t hurt my feelings. Even if he wanted something I’m not giving him, I’m not sure he’d tell me.

[–]motherofhavok5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I nearly never wear makeup either, can't wear heels, and prefer not to wear dresses most of the time. I still exude an undeniable femininity from every pore. Your femininity isn't determined by outward appearances alone; your demeanor means everything. It sounds like you've taken on the feminine role in your marriage. If you've been together for 20 years, and feel as though you've hit your stride, it sounds like everything is probably just fine!

[–]LettingHimLead[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s nice to know I’m not alone! Thank you!

[–]HumanSockPuppetTRP Founder1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you're concerned about how your husband will respond to changes in your appearance, try doing them one small piece at a time.

First change your hair. Then one article of clothing. Then another. Do it cumulatively, and see if he responds (positively or negatively) to each change. If he appears to be happier or more interested, then you know it's having a positive effect. If he seems indifferent, then you can continue doing it for your own sake if it pleases you. If he seems off-put by it, then you can dial it back or stop.

[–]THE_ANGRY_SHARTER-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m not a girly girl. I don’t wear make up. I hate the way it feels. The way it smells. And the way it looks. If I wear a dress, I wear shorts under it. 😬 I can’t walk in heels - I look like a newborn baby deer. He seems good with all of this. The only feminine trait I have is my desire to serve.

OP. Don't knock it until you try it. It's easier than you think. Literally start liking nail polish. Wear DRESSES and SKIRTS. Make use of the website "photofeeler". It'll teach you what photos men like, which images of yourself are the most attractive to men. It's anonymous, of course, but it's taught me a few things.

Men like it when you smile, are pleasant, and dress femininely. The difference between one of my photos receiving a 7.2 and one receiving a 9.5 are this: Smile, hair down, DRESS. Wear sandals, flip flops, heels. Look pretty. Smile. Work on being gentle. Paint your nails.

Make up is not so bad :) It only sucks for the first month or so that you're doing it. At first it'll take you 30 minutes. Then it'll take you 20. Then it'll take you 3.75 minutes, like it does for me. It's not so bad, OP.

I recommend that you also download and read "why men marry some women and not others". It'll help you figure out some RP stuff.

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Does it matter what we think? You've already made up your mind that you hate it, and are not going to do it.

Is there a chance that your husband would respond positively to feminine changes? Sure. Is there a chance it could make your marriage better? Sure. But it doesn't sound like he's planning to leave you any time soon, and you've already decided that your marriage is good enough as it is.

There's nothing we could do or say to make you want to be more feminine, even if we cared to, because you are not going to. So it seems like the point of this post is to validate your own decisions.

But, I'm not going to do that, because I'm of the opinion that the person I love is worth every effort I can give to him. "Good enough" is nit enough for me because I'm always striving for "better".

I would have a different opinion if he didn't like dresses and make up. But, that's not the point of your post, is it?

[–]LettingHimLead[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No, it doesn’t matter what you think. That doesn’t mean I’m not interested in what you think or wouldn’t take into consideration what you think. I mean, I did ask.

Hubby doesn’t like make up. He’s verbally said that he’s glad he wakes up to the same face that he spends his days with. He probably does like dresses.

My question about femininity isn’t “Is what I’m doing OK?” I know it’s OK. It’s a broader question. “Is that enough?” Should we all strive toward the ultimate definition of womanhood? Encompass every facet of what a woman is? We automatically think of feminine appearance when we hear the word “femininity”. That’s my first thought when I hear the word, though I know there’s really a deeper context. We’re nurturers, we’re empathetic, we’re gentle and sensitive. I am those things, but outwardly, I don’t exude a load of femininity. I’m curious what I can do, outside of playing dress up, to show that femininity. I don’t want to pretend to be something I’m not, but I do want to strive to be my best self on the outside as well as the inside.

[–]durtykneesEndorsed Contributor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m curious what I can do, outside of playing dress up, to show that femininity.

"Dress up" is often associated with femininity because women have a wide range of options to choose from, compared to men.

I don’t want to pretend to be something I’m not

Being flexible is about expanding the range of your potential (what you can/can't do, to be more than just "enough").

  • A child plays dress-up to pretend to be an adult.

  • An adult learns how to dress well because they're well-adjusted.

but I do want to strive to be my best self on the outside as well as the inside.

If your potential is something that's self-limiting, your best self is someone who is "enough".

What you're currently doing is obviously enough, and you have every right to enjoy the happiness you've worked hard to achieve.


This is why u/FleetingWish asked what the point of your post is (correct me if I'm wrong).

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Should we all strive toward the ultimate definition of womanhood?

For what purpose?

[–]LettingHimLead[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would imagine we each have our own purpose - to lead by example, to keep a spouse happy, to make the world a better place. Not sure why the purpose would change your answer to the question.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter