Is this hypergamy or something bigger?

CantBanFacts · 2019-09-03T12:06:24+00:00

You're hamstringing yourself to death. This is like....Supermegauberultrahypergamy.

Master your base instincts, get control of yourself, and be good to your good man. If you give in to your "Monkey Mind" you will not find a better man, you will not find a better marriage and, at this age, you'll wind up alone and bitter once you've realized what's gone....and you'll deserve it.

covfefeismydrug · 2019-09-03T11:24:13+00:00

I have been in your same spot. I could have written this myself, albeit dialed down a bit. Here’s some advice if you want to try to save your marriage.

Take a long, long, long break from social media (or delete it altogether...this includes reddit relationship subs).
Stop reading fiction books.
No romance movies or TV with “triggers.”
Occupy your mind with meditation/prayer/exercise or whatever self-improvement you want to focus on for the next few months.
Don’t leave your home. You don’t need outside influence right now...girlfriends/family/others will give you biased advice that may be unintentionally harmful right now. I’m not saying to go full hermit; I’m just recommended living in your home for now.
Decide to love him and focus on his positive qualities. You owe him a level of effort here. Hollywood’s idea of love/infatuation is not totally honest. Romance ebbs and flows. Love is a decision. If he wrote this post, how would you feel?
Realize that you put yourself in this position. You can decide to leave or stay, but leaving is most likely irreversible. It’s cliche but “the grass isn’t always greener.” You need to “water the grass” in your own relationship.
Read fascinating Womanhood if you haven’t already. I think you need a “mind-reset.” And this might help readjust your frame of mind.

I think like many women out there, you’re a victim to the idea of romantic love. The head-over-heels feeling is often temporary. People make mistakes, get sick, have bad days, and life is messy. That feeling doesn’t get people through that stuff-the decision and resolve to love is what gets relationship through hardships.

Good luck. You’re not the first or last person to have this problem. If you haven’t already, I would NOT express what you’ve written here to your husband unless you are seriously considering divorce. And, if I were you, I would give the steps I laid out above until the end of the year. It sounds like you owe this to your husband because he’s a victim in this scenario.

crashmeifyoucan · 2019-09-03T18:41:14+00:00

I sympathize with your plight on a deep level, but as others have said, don't base your decision on whether or not to separate on people's comments here. Only you can make this call. That said, I wanted to share my own experience with you.

First off, I think that attraction is quite a bit more complex than an alpha/beta dichotomy. While yes, all women are more sexually attracted to alpha traits than beta traits, the actual 'ingredients' that make two individuals fall in love go beyond SMV and primal attraction. Things like intellectual compatibility, personality traits, shared values, visions and opinions, and genetic compatibility (often made obvious by whether or not you are attracted to or repulsed by someone's natural body scent) all play a role. And beyond all of that, it appears like there's still a bit of an x-factor, a je ne sais quoi, that is impossible to name but can make or break it for romantic attraction.

A few years ago, I started dating a man. He was handsome, kind, shared many of my hobbies, was smart, a great conversationalist, and super into me. All went well, until I went home for Christmas and realized that I didn't miss him, rarely thought of him, and didn't sexually desire him while we were apart. I was forced to take my apprehension seriously, and promptly broke it off with him. I hurt him by doing so, but I am confident that it was the right thing to do. If I didn't feel romantically inspired by him a few months in, I didn't think it would improve.

My current boyfriend is not so different from this man I dated back then. He, too, is handsome, kind, shares my hobbies, smart, a great conversationalist, super into me... and for some reason, I am too. For some reason, he inspires intense longing, affection and desire and makes me have no doubts that I want to commit to him and spend my life with him.

He's the first man who ever made me understand the sentiments that love songs were about, and while I understand that our love won't always be a song, I think it creates a strong foundation. Even now that we are beyond the honeymoon phase, I have never doubted my committment to him.

I would describe neither of them as alpha and both my boyfriend and this other man I dated back then have similar SMVs. What made me fall in love with one and not the other? Many reasons that matter to me personally, like my bf's particular sense of humor and his astounding open-mindedness, but very few that have anything to do with objective criteria like looks, money and status.

So from my own experience, it seems like it's very difficult to create something with your husband that you never had to begin with. Sometimes, it just doesn't click. Often, if it hasn't clicked past a certain point, it never will.

I hope for your sake that I'm wrong, and that you will be able to be happy with the man you married, and make him happy, as well. All the best.

LordDunderhead · 2019-09-03T10:14:38+00:00

Ouch. Why did you marry him in the first place though? And how does he feel about it?

I think this is one of the real dangers of being a RPW. We spend so much time obsessing over our Captain's ideal traits and prerequisites that sometimes we forget about actually feeling attracted to them. Because if there is no chemistry and sexual tension between you two, you are nothing more but roommates/platonic friends.

Although quite a few women would probably be perfectly content with this setup. Not everyone values romance over stable companionship. Marrying for love wasn't even a thing until a few decades ago. But it seems like you've already made up your mind

loneliness-inc · 2019-09-03T22:15:06+00:00

Throwing away a great man for "stupid" reasons is something I'd regret for the rest of my life,

Yes. You most certainly will.

but is this stupid?

Absolutely!

Is my body trying to tell me something important that I'm ignoring

Well, depends how you define important.

or am I hamstring myself to death?

Yes. That too.

Look, we call it the dual mating strategy for a reason. Because there are two female mating strategies or in other words: two opposing character traits that women find attractive in men. These are often mutually exclusive, especially according to the bullshit of romanticism in which you either fall in love at first sight and have fireworks forever and ever, amen or you're just not in love and you should break up now!

The first mating strategy has to do with sexual attraction. When a man triggers a woman's instinct to be protected, he becomes sexually appealing to her. Being the dramatic beings that women are + the fact that women are human beings and men are human doings - and the man must provide her with excitement in order to continue to stimulate her sexual interest in him. Otherwise she will get booooooored.

This is why confidence, authority, assertiveness, decisiveness, arrogance, dominance, violence, muscles, height, strength etc are sexually appealing to women. All these trigger her protection instinct. Some also add drama value too!

The second mating strategy is to choose a man of stability. Diligence, commitment, loyalty, honor, stability, planning, frugality, tenderness, manners, gentlemanly etc are all examples of this type of man.

Thing is, this man is sexually boring to women. Sure, he satisfies her need for provision, but she will be boooooooooooooooooooooored in no time. He doesn't inspire tingles to her pussy even though he is a much better choice as a husband and father in a safe and stable society where the rival tribes aren't constantly warring over territory and women.

So what can you do? What's attractive to the first mating strategy is terribly unstable and a bad family choice. What's attractive to the second mating strategy is sexually boring and will dry up her pussy!

In other words: female sexual strategy that's allowed to do its thing is absolutely impossible to ever satisfy! A woman who blindly follows what feels right in the moment, will likely end up all alone as a single mother with kids from different fathers, with a few cats to boot.

Some women try to get their men to be more alpha or more beta. To be more confident or more tender. More this and more that. This may work for a while but it will eventually fail because the source of the problem is the contradictory desires of the two female mating strategies.

Therefore, only the woman can bridge these two strategies together. The way that's best for her longterm happiness and the health of her family is for her to choose a sexually attractive beta male provider and to utilize the NRE to springboard her sexual desire for him. To utilize this time to establish consciously and actively engaging in things that keep her sexual interest burning strong. If you don't add fuel to a fire, it'll die out.

Unfortunately, most women expect the man to keep them interested but this is impossible. No one can keep your interest. Only you can keep your interest.

As long as your man isn't repulsive to you, it's up to you to either choose to actively desire him every day, multiple times a day or to abandon him and start a long and tumultuous journey of fucking up your life forever. It's in your hands.

Zegiknie · 2019-09-03T11:23:46+00:00

You committed to a good man and married him. Now you are fantasizing about cheating and wondering if you should divorce him because he treats you too well and you are bored. Yes, this is hypergamy. You have a fantasy in your head of how you could upgrade him for someone who excites you more and makes you feel more dread. Isn't divorcing a man because you are bored the definition of blue pill mentality? I am surprised that there has not been more people willing to call you out on this. You already took the plunge and I was under the impression that part of maintaining your value as a RPW is to be a good woman and wife who doesn't divorce her husband over petty reasons. I promise you will find reasons to be bored and leave the next guy too. I think this is a problem within yourself and something about your internal world makes you unable to handle a man who treats you well. Stay in therapy and keep reading books on how to be a better wife.

crashmeifyoucan · 2019-09-03T15:25:28+00:00

So much of this post is about your own guilty feelings that it's tough to give advice.

Somehow, you have to find a way to get past the guilt and try to identify WHY you are not attracted to your husband.

Most of the comments here are saying it's just hypergamy, in other words this is on you.

Could be, or it could be that he has issues. My first serious relationship was with a "nice guy" and I spent years feeling guilty that I didn't find him attractive. I finally realized -- after we split up -- that there was nothing wrong with me. I won't get into details. But he was weird about sex, had strange hang-ups, and was constantly passively-aggressively putting me down.

My husband is also a very nice guy. But I find him wildly attractive, over a decade in. To me, that matters a LOT.

Look at yourself, and try to understand your own feelings. I'm not saying to break up your marriage, but try to understand your feelings instead of just beating yourself up.

Shaela90 · 2019-09-03T15:00:26+00:00

You’ve got yourself a good man whom you’re not attracted to. It happens, especially when one is not entirely sure what is it exactly that they find attractive.

Attraction is more than just a pretty face or fat bank account or a willingness to be a provider. Attraction is finding a piece(or more!) of whatever makes you feel alive in the other person. Maybe books, maybe music, maybe climate change. Who are you and what do you stand for?

Now, I’m not married because I refuse to marry someone I am not really attracted to and also have a good relationship with, but I still wouldn’t advise you to divorce. I have no experience there. That’s your decision to make.

You will be bored with the ‘right’ person as well, you will have bad days, but at the end of the day, you’d still choose them.

The only advice I feel i can give you is to try to create romance with your husband. What do you like? What does he like? Can you find any common ground? Then take it from there and focus on those feelings. But alas, if they were never there to begin with, I don’t believe you can create them out of the blue.

valleycupcake · 2019-09-03T20:27:19+00:00

100% this is hamstering. This would be the mistake of a lifetime to throw away what you have.

You don’t have control over what pops into your head, but you can choose what you dwell on. So when a fantasy pops up, either throw it away and go do some jumping jacks, or sublimate it to something that you can involve your husband in.

Being “in love” is a great feeling, but biochemically your body can only generate those hormones for three years at a time. So even in The Notebook or stories like that, the initial burning desire settles down into happy companionship.

You can choose to cultivate warm loving feelings by thinking about him, his day, his perspective, things you admire about him. Relive over and over in your mind times he’s protected you, been there for you. Fondly contemplate past intimate times with him that were memorable.

Your mind is playing tricks on you, and you need to come back at those tricks aggressively if you don’t want to ruin your life and hurt your beloved husband.

Edit: I love my husband, and I’m committed, but I didn’t vet him well. He has problems on problems. I’m never bored with him because he’s always finding new ways to bring drama to our lives due to his lack of self control. PTSD, addictions, family issues... but he sure is sexy when he plays the guitar. Believe me, it could be so much worse than boredom. Appreciate what you have. Water the flower and it will bloom. If I can, you certainly can.

Zegiknie · 2019-09-03T10:01:22+00:00

How is your sexlife?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a wild fantasy life (except sometimes my thoughts run away with me and I envision horrors which keep me awake, but daydreaming is everyones prerogative lol). No reason to feel guilty whatsoever.

So is this a nightmare because you are killing yourself with pointless guilt, or because your sexlife sucks?

Practical advice for now: don't get pregnant. Don't socialize too much with other men. Give it time, don't make decisions you're not calm about. Hold off until you have your head on straight again. Continue with therapy and leave behind this utterly ridiculous guilt for things beyond your control (attraction level, feelings).

He seems very patient and forgiving, make yourself worthy of that at least. You're married right now, so treat him well at least as long as you stay married.

janeaustenfan99 · 2019-09-03T13:18:18+00:00

Take a peek at some of the subs here and other articles about what single women your age go through on the dating scene, and ask yourself if you really want to be a part of that.

AndJellyfish · 2019-09-03T18:14:01+00:00

I really think you shouldn't be taking advice online for this. None of us know you or your husband. Please don't make such a huge life decision based on the comments of internet strangers. Your therapist will be much more qualified than us.

LettingHimLead · 2019-09-03T19:31:53+00:00

I don’t know if it’s hypergamy or if you’re just not attracted to him on a basic level. You’ll have to decide that. As someone else stated above, “in love” waxes and wanes. When I start to lose the giddy feelings about my husband, I double down. I work harder for him. Make his favorite meals. Send him texts during the day telling him how wonderful he is. Rub his arm while we watch TV. And it never fails - “faking” it for a few days brings all of those butterflies back for me.

lord-denning · 2019-09-03T21:30:47+00:00

Classic hypergamy. Proceed with caution as it is very easy to break something that cannot be repaired.

Your man needs to bring some darker tones to the relationship to thrill you and chill you. It is not something you can get him to do. Suggest him to spend more time with the boys (or the main TRP subreddit as a last resort) and hint that he should learn more about what makes a woman tick.

Sobinia · 2019-09-03T15:32:57+00:00

Head-over-heels feelings will often make you end up in a toxic relationship, feel used, miserable, etc. Although they're addictive and feel amazing (been there, experienced it), once they end, you will only be a shadow of your former self and unable to fall in love with someone that isn't as alpha as your former partner. That's why I envy girls that never had to deal with highly desirable guys and why I think that back in the old days, this was one of the reason for marrying girls off in their late teens or early twenties – so that they'd never get to experience romance with alpha males (because if they did, they'd break the vows they've spoken in front of their entire community and get shamed for it) and in return, be able to remain relatively happy with a typical, beta guy (after all, only 5-20% men are alphas and if they were the only ones able to have sex, society would fall pretty quickly, due to betas focusing on trying to get laid instead of keeping the civilisation going.) Did you have alpha boyfriends before meeting your husband?

crashmeifyoucan · 2019-09-03T11:37:42+00:00

I would definitely advise working him this before ending it.

Y’all need to do some exciting things together. Something that gets the blood pumping. Make time to be intimate and reinforce your feelings by doing things for him. Give it a genuine effort.

mryoudontknowme368 · 2019-09-03T13:57:15+00:00

Maybe you and hubby should just add some spice into your life.

It's not for everyone but maybe read "darling discovered"

jfiscal · 2019-09-03T17:17:05+00:00

It's good you can be honest with yourself. But if you've already told your husband you don't love him, and he's okay with you abandoning the marital home, the situation may have already moved beyond your control.

Sounds like regular hypergamy to me tbh. It's the female condition. I know you're not explicitly asking for advice, but marriage is something that has always required effort, especially for the (vast majority of) women who have had to "settle" for men at their own, or only slightly higher station.

It's a conscious choice, and a conscious effort. Whether he's worth making that effort for is up to you

Brewingupabrownstorm · 2019-09-03T17:21:52+00:00

If you’re constantly fighting your thoughts, I would recommend doing some reading on Paradoxical Intention - you can find more information on it in the book Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl.

vaguelyirritated247 · 2019-09-03T17:59:25+00:00

Ive been with my busband for 7 years now (dated for 5, married for 2 later this month) and you are not going to feel 'head over heels crazy in love' all the time. That feeling wanes and waxes. When youre not in the 'crazy in love feeling' it's a comfortable love, like hanging out with your best friend that you also enjoy having sex with. It may also help that I dont really care about what others consider romantic. Romance books and movies bore me to tears. To me, romantic is when my husband makes phone calls for me because i hate making them lol

So you may want to take some time and redefine/reframe romance for yourself, it may help.

etucker546 · 2019-09-03T18:18:13+00:00

Sounds to me like you have a boring ol beta male. Encourage him to be things that may create sexual tension between you two. Is he 2 passive meek not dominant enough that doesn’t make you aroused by him?

crashmeifyoucan · 2019-09-03T19:17:30+00:00

Love is a choice. We choose to love people because feelings only last so long. Butterflies don't last forever or at the very least they come and go. Infatuation doesn't last forever. Sure you hear about 'those couples.' But don't compare your relationship. And there's always more to the story for those who we're comparing ourselves to. They have their burdens to bear in their own way.

If we went by our feelings on a day to day basis, we would be in a sorry state. We can't go by feelings in a committed marriage. Through sickness and in health. You chose this man and he chose you. Choose everyday to love him. Focus on the positives. Protect your mind like covfefeismydrug essentially said. Nurture your relationship. Love and attraction can grow.

Flee from flirtatious men and wrangle in that wandering eye. You're not 'missing out' on what they can offer. If anyone were to seriously engage with a married woman (you), you wouldn't want them anyway. Those kinds of people are heartbreak waiting to happen.

Let me just conclude with one story about a woman I know. It was a short-lived friendships which I bowed out of once I realized her true brand of crazy. She's 44 and on her third marriage. Her first marriage ended when she cheated on him. With the second marriage, he was supposedly 'abusive' (maybe he was, I don't know). She left the second man and immediately started living with her current husband (still cheating because she wasn't divorced from the second husband, IMO). They lived together 5 years before they were married, which is now about 5 years. One of the last times I hung out with her (our friendship lasted 5 months), she told me that cheating is always in the back of her mind and that it's something she has to fight. She told me that she has almost left him a few times, but keeps hearing a voice say 'stay with him.' I am not saying there isn't any redemption for her. I really hope she stays with that man and honors her third marriage. But goodness gracious, I fled from that friendship faster than a scalded cat. This woman, in the short period of time I knew her, was flirtatious and insanely conceited. She had it in her head that every man in a 50 mile radius was 'checking her out.' Don't get me wrong, she was a nice looking woman, but it just seems like she had developed some bad mental habits and needed to work on her life outlook, her opinion of herself, and her marriage. Please know I am not saying you are 'like' this woman, but I'm saying it started somewhere for her. It started with her infidelity and became a slippery slope of bad habits which are now causing her a lot of turmoil.

NPC12388 · 2019-09-03T19:51:32+00:00

You need Jesus.

concaverock · 2019-09-03T21:02:44+00:00

Maybe you're aromantic

TheTyke · 2019-09-15T22:38:08+00:00

Strange question but are you on Birth Control of any sort?

siriusisness · 2019-09-17T00:25:20+00:00

> "Get her pregnant, pop out a kid, that'll settle her down."

this would be my absolutely worst nightmare

well then you're wasting his time.

you ARE depriving him of a woman that's crazy about him.

Piporor · 2019-09-03T08:48:53+00:00

Just cut it off now while you still have some sort of control.

LateralThinker13 · 2019-09-06T15:40:54+00:00

Let me break down this key paragraph for you.

Some days it breaks me that I'm depriving him of a woman that's absolutely crazy about him.

You have low self esteem.

I feel restless

You are unsatisfied/unfulfilled.

and have a wandering eye

This is normal - to LOOK. Eye candy is nice. Is your husband... less than pleasing to look upon?

and the guilt is eating me alive.

If you look but do not touch, why the guilt?

It has evoked a wild fantasy life to the point I seriously don't trust myself to find any sort of clarity/make a decision.

If you're this vulnerable to outside influence, then you need to work on your self-esteem and willpower. Seriously, this sounds like somebody with an addiction.

I've talked to him about these feelings and he wants me to be happy, and therapy has only helped so much reach a decision.

So he's supportive. That's good. That you talk to him is better.

Throwing away a great man for "stupid" reasons is something I'd regret for the rest of my life,

Yes you would.

but is this stupid?

Yes. Hamsters are dumb creatures.

Is my body trying to tell me something important that I'm ignoring or am I hamstring myself to death?

Door #2.

It feels like I'm fighting 7 wars in my head daily and I can't continue living this way.

Get your hypergamy under control. Do you have too much free time on your hands? No job? Nothing that fulfills you? Do you not bond enough with your husband, or have a lackluster sex life?

It's like there's a vacuum inside of me that needs to be filled and I don't know what to do.

TRP would say to the man, "Give her a really good sex session."

An old phrase that comes to mind is, "Get her pregnant, pop out a kid, that'll settle her down."

The therapist discussed possibly living with a girlfriend for a bit to collect my thoughts. Husband said this is fine if it helps.

Watch out. Some therapists do this before they recommend breaking up the relationship. Don't always assume the therapist is working in your best interest. Many have an ideological axe to grind.

Read Secrets of Fascinating Womanhood. Try it out. Use its techniques to build up your husband. He sounds kinda beta; you can build him up into more alpha/confident/masculine traits, and this will increase your desire for him.

But that'll take work on YOUR part.