Why is This Topic Controversial?

ohheyhi99 · 2019-09-17T22:36:22+00:00

The debate is about which traits take priority. As a non-RPer, I think most women prefer nice men, but will take more shit from a guy or set double standards in his favor if he’s attractive. Ditto for dudes with attractive women, but everyone knows this. People who tell guys that the traits you listed under BP are just as crucial to attraction as the traits that you listed under RP (especially looks) are setting them up for failure and frustration.

Mulkvistee · 2019-09-17T22:51:13+00:00

They don't contradict more often than not in the real world. Online it's convenient to act like attractive traits NEVER occur within an attractive person to illustrate some point about evil Stacy or asshole Chad.

neubiiAUT · 2019-09-18T05:47:31+00:00

You can never trust what a woman says, only what she does. Most all women claim they want a nice caring guy, who doesnt have to be a Chad in looks. Nevertheless they date and go for the assholes and chads, get used, pumped and dumped and say all men are assholes. They say they want a romance as protraied in movies and yet if someone does it, they get put off as needy and cringey. Women are emotional and only judgable in their choices they made. I can always claim i am a CEO, stacking cash and actually work at mcdonalds.

slytherlune · 2019-09-17T22:40:03+00:00

You're right. I'd no more go for someone unattractive who nevertheless was a nice guy than I would someone totally attractive who wasn't. So... there's no real choice to be made, for me you have to be some of both.

Walking stereotypes of either are equally a turnoff. Bleh.

sometimespredictable · 2019-09-17T23:56:48+00:00

Blue pill doesn't disagree that girls like fit, good looking guys with money and status. That is obvious. They say that girls like a fit, high status guy who is also friendly and compassionate.

Red pill says that, well they only look at how fit, hot and high status you are and they don't care for your compassion and friendliness at all. I mean, they obviously want a friendly compassionate provider to settle with. But those traits don't arouse them, don't make them attracted, they don't factor into how they select a mate.

TheseAcadia · 2019-09-18T00:23:31+00:00

Basically:

Nice Chad > Asshole Chad > Mixed Beta > Nice Beta

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2019-09-17T22:34:22+00:00

Because the BP categories only matter if the RP categories are satisfied.

“Niceness” means nothing if you’re weak. It means quite a lot if you’re strong.

Dora_Bowl · 2019-09-17T22:41:50+00:00

What Red Pill users make the mistake of in this case is thinking that being an “asshole”, “jerk” etc. Is attractive to women, but they fail to realize that women are more likely to put up with that behavior from attractive people. They use it to justify their misogynistic attitudes or bitterness towards women I think. Everything you listed above as a “Red Pill” belief about attraction I doubt any significant number of Blue Pill users deny it. The controversial part of the Red Pill is not the dating advice, but it is the politics of it.

Willow-girl · 2019-09-18T12:40:50+00:00

Men grow up with all the women in their lvies (mom, grandma, auntie) telling them how wonderful they are and to "Just be yourself" when it comes to finding a "nice girl"! Thus they're surprised when the horrible truth comes out.

Society doesn't lie to girls, because it doesn't want them to get pregnant, but traditionally parents didn't want a spinster daughter hanging around their house her whole life either. So women are told the truth, and operate under no illusions where male nature is concerned.

MrEctomy · 2019-09-18T13:46:03+00:00

I've never met a woman who has said they want an asshole boyfriend that treats them like shit but is attractive and has money and power.

That's what they say. Now look at who they date.

GayLubeOil · 2019-09-18T22:12:41+00:00

The Females of team Blue Pill have chemically castrated themselves with hormonal birth control, obesity and antidepressants to the point where their endocrine systems don't function and they are no longer attracted to traditional markers of masculintity.

This can be substantiated by looking at pictures of them because they all basically look like this.

So Instead of looking for a fertile healthy male they are interested in finding a friendly empathetic genuine buddy which is coincidentally what prepubescent girls look for in a 6th grade boyfriend.

kandyapplez · 2019-09-17T23:09:34+00:00

when i look at the hottest women i know (19-21 yo models) who have their pick of the litter, the guys they date only really have one thing in common: social clout and esteem. literally everything else listed here is a toss up lol. (ESPECIALLY the "fit/bullt" body thing)

poppy_blu · 2019-09-17T23:39:12+00:00

Red Pill believes women like: Fit Built guys (confirmed in many studies), Men with attractive faces (pretty obv), Men with status/money (pretty obv), Men who are socially fluent (pretty obv) Blue Pill" will usually suggest that women generally like: genuine guys (pretty obv), likable guys (pretty obv), friendly guys (pretty obv), empathetic guys (pretty obv

It's just asinine to believe that men can't display traits from both lists.

Truedemocracy5 · 2019-09-18T00:09:06+00:00

Anything that could potentially hurt someone’s feelings in today’s world is to be masked and replaced with comfort. We are a coddled generation.

If a guy asks someone about a girl he likes the advice will never be “put on 15 pounds of muscle and start talking to other girls to make her jealous”

But go ahead and buy her those flowers chump

almaryl · 2019-09-17T23:37:45+00:00

I think generally speaking that's a pretty subjective thing that is very context-dependent.

You have already answered your own question here.

HWGA_Gallifrey · 2019-09-17T23:53:02+00:00

The same reason Oz yelled, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" it breaks the illusion.

Punkybrewster1 · 2019-09-18T05:44:53+00:00

My number one trait in men is brains. Intelligence doesn’t show up in either list?

AndemanMan · 2019-09-18T09:05:13+00:00

I've also never met a woman who has said they just want a nice genuine out of shape guy in poverty who has no spine who has no idea how to fit in at dinner parties.

Literally the other day I saw a Reddit post by a woman saying she wanted to meet a short, balding nerdy guy that makes her laugh. It's the Summer of George!

Next_Flow1 · 2019-09-18T10:11:39+00:00

I've never met a woman who has said they want an asshole boyfriend that treats them like shit but is attractive and has money and power.

That's coincidental neither have I! On the other hand I know tons that date them, and guys who are shit heads who never have problems getting laid.

[deleted] · 2019-09-18T12:08:03+00:00

Women say all kinds of things but their actions never lie. So here's that

Shadow_Of_ · 2019-09-18T13:02:19+00:00

The blue pill is wrong. I could be some cannibal psycho serial killer and I could still get a girl.

FieldLine · 2019-09-18T20:08:47+00:00

The only real debate imo would be is if women had to choose, what traits would they prefer.

We don't need to debate this at all. Just look at the data. What are they choosing?

I think generally speaking that's a pretty subjective thing that is very context-dependent.

It's not subjective at all. Look at the data.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-09-17T22:59:24+00:00

This is a ludicrous presentation of the red pill

Has the entire concept of Game disappeared from these discussions?

No shit theres nothing controversial about be fit and confident

rus9384 · 2019-09-17T23:07:48+00:00

Men with attractive faces (pretty obv)

TRP says explicitly women like masculine faces, which means for TRP masculine = attractive, while in the reality hypermasculinity is a thing and many women find that unattractive.

At the same time "Blue Pill" will usually suggest that women generally like

genuine guys (pretty obv)

likable guys (pretty obv)

friendly guys (pretty obv)

empathetic guys (pretty obv)

TRP claims women are not sexually aroused by that (and it tells pretty much the opposite), it does not claim women don't like these things at all.

Also, I don't think TRP says that being fun and smart, and etc. does not help with women. Quite the opposite.

I've never met a woman who has said they want an asshole boyfriend that treats them like shit but is attractive and has money and power.

Yes, women prefer the full package, especially for relationships. But if your goal is to spin plates it's silly to think that bad girls (typically, sluts are bad girls) usually are attracted to good guys.

Tealllane · 2019-09-18T00:05:40+00:00

Redpill guys are just incels in denial that aim to blame their lack of "success" on women.

AggravatingTartlet · 2019-09-18T02:21:27+00:00

The blue pill believes ALL those points, not just the second set. The red pill largely doesn't believe the second set.

That's where the conflict of beliefs come in.

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grand_tiremaster · 2019-09-18T05:42:51+00:00

I am red pilled, however I like a man that is a mixture of these characteristics. My boyfriend lifts but is a big softy. I need a man that is emotionally available and can be vulnerable with me.

TheReformist94 · 2019-09-18T12:03:52+00:00

Because the cut off point I'd the top 5%. How long are we going to debate this

LillthOfBabylon · 2019-09-18T12:17:43+00:00

Because alot of Red pilled guys have a chip on their shoulder and never want to admit that its their personality thats the problem with his dating life. Hence, he thinks that women dont care about personality (because he doesnt care).

[deleted] · 2019-09-18T14:33:24+00:00

This is a good topic. I think the issue lies in how we prioritize these qualities. If we were going to build the most optimal man, what comes first? IMO, principles come first, then having a purpose, then self development, and somewhere far down the line comes niceness, humor and the blue pill traits. The thing with the blue pill traits is that they are not an imperitive, but a luxury. Being a strong, well developed man affords you the luxury of choosing to be kind and not get walked all over. Conversely, being nice but weak and misguided is a path to misery.

LifterofThings · 2019-09-18T17:49:36+00:00

Because when women say they "like" a man they mean "enjoy spending time with him, are comfortable with him, find his company pleasant".

What men mean when they say a woman "likes" a man, is that the woman wants to fuck the man.

Therein lies the discrepancy. Women don't want to be partners with a super-aggressive poon-hound alpha... but they're not overwhelmed with the animalistic urge to fuck sweet, non-threatening billy beta.

Ideally you get a relationship with some of both dynamics at different points in time.

PPPPDAccount · 2019-09-18T18:08:46+00:00

I agree that most people are ok talking about it in vague terms - oh, some women like this or that. The controversy comes in when TRP attempts to quantify these traits so they can copy naturally successful men. i.e. If you're only this attractive, you need to be x% alpha and y% beta. It feels like gaming the system to a lot of people, and people in general don't like cheaters.

LeJacquelope · 2019-09-19T02:41:53+00:00

The issue is that muscular guys, men with attractive faces trump every other kind of man, ever. With notable exceptions. And Bloopers want to deny this basic fact.

katymarx · 2019-09-17T22:56:50+00:00

How many traits do I get to choose from? Im down w a Build-A-Man SIM!

Dora_Bowl · 2019-09-18T00:53:50+00:00

Do not really care about you just name dropping some study. Did you read through it yourself? If you did it should be easy for you to explain it.