TheRedArchive

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When it comes to the Marriage crisis that is affecting the west, and the meteoric growth of single women since the sexual revolution , purple pillers and redpillers diverge in opinion on what is the cause of so many women forsaking marriage for prolonged spinsterhood. Now the purple and to a certain extent blue pillers seem to come to an agreement that women these days, arent impressed by the current cohort of marriageable men. They have better options than marriage and many women would prefer singledom than marrying someone your not attracted to. Many believe women are happier being single, far more than men. Theyre also far more content with having medium to short term relationships with desirable men than longterm relationships with mediocre joe.

Whilst Redpillers seem to believe that women experiencing getting pumped and dumped by Chad throughout their youth, and their own over inflated sense of worth has meant to many women struggling to find a compatible partner of whom theyre attracted to, when they reach the normal age of marriage many women after experiencing the cock carousel cant seem to shake off the belief that their SMV equates to their true relationship value. Thus the sub par men whom they may see as unworthy for a relationship may actually be what they can bargain for in a LTR market, but their own warped perception of their worth due to years foregoing LTR relationships for the hookup culture and short term relationships has meant that theres a deep mismatch in how they perceive themselves and how men see them when it comes to LTR. Redpillers also believe most of these women are miserable, since they cannot fulfill their needs for a mate and a provider and many will become desperate to snag a "beta" once they reach a certain age. This stage in many single women lives often becomes the redpill/Incel revenge fantasy of many of those who believe in the RP interpretation of the SMP/RMP.

Now as a the only boy in a large family full of sexually liberal single sisters, who are in the age range where theyre expected to find MR Right for marriage, the fact that my sisters are indeed very content with being single has made me reconsider my Redpill preconceptions about Spinster women. They are indeed happy, and living life to the fullest. And despite a few of them "hitting the wall", my sisters are still enjoying quite dyanmic sex lives, which counters RP assumptions that sexual interest in women wanes as they age. They dont look back to their younger years with regret for having such sexual appetites, but with contentment. They also tend to have a network of friends to fill the romantic void. Now this may be an anecdote, but it seems like even studies on older single childless women seem to agree with my observation that theyre content with their lives, and far more than single childless men in their age group . https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/25/women-happier-without-children-or-a-spouse-happiness-expert

Talking to my sisters about the quality of men in the modern dating economy has made me realize that women nowadays operate under a totally different mindset than what redpillers would assume. For modern women like my sisters, having a preference for spinsterhood over pairing off with mediocre beta males has changed the way we have to determine the relationship value of women. The RP famous saying that “women are the gatekeepers of Sex and that men are the gatekeepers of relationships/commitment” is now outdated in the age where spinsterhood can be a very fullfilling experience. And with more single career women preferring having fatherless children by choice with "Chads" or Sperm donors, they no longer need men for a family. This trend is now gaining popularity amongst my sisters career centric hypergamous-but-rarely-satisfied-with-modern-men friends, and according to my many of our chats about social trends among early millennial women who are now reaching their late 30s, being a single mother by choice is becoming very trendy for women who feel that most men arent worth it, mostly due to fact that single millennial women outearn single men.

And as someone who has spoken and interacted with older single women through my sisters social network, these women seem far more capable of living the lonely single but fun life than men in their age group, who do need a purpose and are falling through the cracks, as the latest statistics on suicide and depression among middle aged single men can attest. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/nov/17/male-childlessness-not-reproducing-what-am-i

I think if Redpillers believe that the mismatch between male and female expectations and willingness to compromise will lead to a gender cold war where many men and women will forsake relationships for self love, women seem far more equipped to deal with these conditions.

Women have changed the game once again. Being exposed to honest women like my sisters who I can talk about the gritty politics and sexual economics of the dating game for women, has made me recognize that female power in the social theater is growing and that men will need to operate within their terms in both the sexual and relationship marketplace to get their piece of the of the pie.

Now with women having the ultimate trump card at their disposal, I wonder what implications with society as many men are incapable to reach those expectations or won’t be willing to play by their rules and as women are more than willing to forsake children and marriage with beta males for their own happiness and desires. How will society be impacted by women controlling both the sexual and relationship marketplace? How will men respond to the dating game being even more skewed towards women?


[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer27 points28 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What you don't seem to understand is that men have always been appendages. They were the "necessary evil" that women traditionally had to have in order to have a home and family (which brings social standing in the female matrix). Now that most women can earn their own money, they have less incentive to put up with a man, and many choose not to.

[–]Tomatoccino10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It was more than just social standing; women were unable to do things like open bank accounts or buy property without a male signatory back in the day.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, that's a good point.

[–][deleted] 54 points55 points  (75 children) | Copy Link

There are so many things in this post that I have to question. Please note, I am 29F who is preferring to stay single, and I am speaking from my personal experience and that of my close single girlfriends.

arent impressed by the current cohort of marriageable men.

Men increasingly do not want to get married.

Theyre also far more content with having medium to short term relationships with desirable men than longterm relationships with mediocre joe.

No they aren't. Women start relationships with men they find attractive. These men eventually don't commit, and the woman moves on to the next guy she finds attractive. It's not some evil conspiracy - women are dating the men they are attracted to and hoping it will become a longterm relationship.

Whilst Redpillers seem to believe that women experiencing getting pumped and dumped by Chad throughout their youth

This is a minority of people. Most people rack up a higher n in between a few years in college when they aren't emotionally mature, they then spend their 20's in LTRs, get their heart broken, and at 30 they are jaded and traumatized from their experiences. They cannot bear the pain of love or intimacy, so they settle for casual, which is again with a guy they're attracted to.

Thus the sub par men whom they may see as unworthy for a relationship

Women don't think like this. We aren't thinking "this guy is unworthy"; we are thinking "I don't feel a spark", "I don't feel tingles", "I am not physically attracted to this guy and do not want to have sex with him"

having a preference for spinsterhood over pairing off with mediocre beta males

Again, women are not thinking like this "mediocre" BS. We are thinking "I only want to marry a guy I am sexually attracted to", "I don't want to be like my parents. I only want a romantic/passionate marriage", "I only want to get married to a guy that pulls his weight"

younger years with regret for having such sexual appetites,

I'm rolling my eyes so hard. Women don't have "sexual appetites" like men. Women are comparatively doormats. Young, naive, doormatty women with low boundaries will have sex with any guy who tries. They later regret it, feel tormented and tainted, and wind up with anxiety, depression, an eating disorder, or join a #meToo protest.

single career women preferring having fatherless children by choice

Because modern men do not want marriage or children. Modern men want polygamous open relationships, non-monogamy, and no form of commitment. Relationships are "cuffs", marriage is a "ball and chain".

How will men respond to the dating game being even more skewed towards women?

Men have responded as above. Young people increasingly view gender relations as a war where every person is out for themselves. Basic character traits of compassion, kindness, empathy are seen as weaknesses to be exploited by increasingly narcissistic people who are not capable of love.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat17 points18 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Women are comparatively doormats. Young, naive, doormatty women with low boundaries will have sex with any guy who tries. They later regret it, feel tormented and tainted, and wind up with anxiety, depression, an eating disorder, or join a #meToo protest.

This is extremely true, but a lot of guys REALLY don't want to believe it. They think that these women are going around, wielding their mighty vaginas like battle-axes, deciding who is a worthy champion for the Trophy of Cooch. When really it's just that they're not sure how to set boundaries with guys they go out with, so they end up having a lot of sex they're not that into because NOT doing it isn't really an option they'd considered. But you'll never get the "She only REALLY wanted CHAAAAAD when she was in a sorority" guys to believe it.

(fwiw, my hangups at 18 were in the opposite direction, so i'm going off the other girls in the dorm)

[–]Mulkvistee🌮🧃👻13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yup, I had a lot of young and naive sex I wasn't into in monogamous relationships because "that's what you do." I missed out on the mighty vagina wielding lessons too, because of some notion of what "nice" gf's do. The most I did was not let them get experimental, because why go further if basic is meh? I certainly wasn't hoping for Chad to swoop in and save the day, I thought sex just kinda sucked 🤷

[–]TheReformist941 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Noone forced you into a monogamous relationship. You knew what you were doing. And relationships come with sex.

[–]Mulkvistee🌮🧃👻4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That strange bit about being forced just shows a misplaced obsession with personal responsibility. You think I forgot to dip into my "How to human female correctly" manual, where I was just describing average early years dating awkwardness.

[–]TheReformist940 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women do have sexual appetites. They're getting lots of different chads, tasting a different chad from different places. Not one chad and lots of betas.

I had a mates gf's mate who would fuck a hot guy from tinder from each European city she visited.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh come ON. "A mate's gfs mate who toooootally did this toooootally crazy thing, man!" And it was enough of a story that it was passed around--if this was a normal thing for women to do, no one would tell the story. Nobody ever hears of a friend-of-a-friend who likes to take selfies, or buys a coffee mug as a souvenir from every vacation, because those things are normal and not worth the story.

[–]RacyFry28 points29 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This! I was rolling my eyes so hard reading other comments by men here. We don't go about our lives thinking "Oh I don't want to date a mediocre beta" or "I'll use all chads for sex and settle with a beta", women are just as clueless as men and they just doing things they believe would get them love. There is no global female conspiracy at work here. And it's not like all men want marriage either!

[–]WingedSword_4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's less of, "I'm not attracted to beta males" and more of "I'm not attracted to him because his a beta males"

Alpha's have traits that a generally more desirable to women where as betas generally lack those traits.

[–]wazzoz99[S] 18 points19 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

This post is a prime example of how Apex fallacy can warp a women view of men. When you say men are pumping and dumping and arent being committed to LTR with women, you mean the minority of men who are able to have a plethora of dating choices and exercise those options, which just doesnt exist for the average man. I never said women are conspiring to date only non committed "Desirable men" over mediocre men, just that they have the advantages of having options but each has its own drawbacks. Right now, most young women during the casual sex phase in their college years disproportionately date men who are considerably more attractive than the average man and who would be out of their leagues when it comes to LTR whilst having lesser chances of settling down with them. These early casual sexual encounters with above average men become the yardstick for many of these perpetually single women when it comes to the desirability of future mates. But this is setting up these women up for disappointment when it comes to securing potential mates of such caliber. These men arent interested long term monogamous relationships, because they have all the options. And its not all men, but a subset of attractive and highly desirable men. If young women decided to compromise and pursue relationships with stable "boring" average males who would be less likely to go all polyamorous than the highly desirable and promiscuous minority, there would be less women trapped in these situations. But many single women above 30 have a made a conscience choice that marrying a loyal but mediocre man when youre in your mid 20s isnt something youll tolerate , and that youre willing to take the risk with above average and desirable yet unreliable men if it means a chance of settling with them. Youre only complaining that you are made to face the consequences for your own choice in men. Thats ok, thats life. Many women, like my sisters are perfectly fine with the choices theyve made and the exciting youthful years they had experiencing passionate relationships with interesting characters, who they retrospectively realized would have never stayed around.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

most young women during the casual sex phase in their college years disproportionately date men who are considerably more attractive than the average man

How is it ME that is warped by apex fallacy when you write things like this? Have you seen men in college? Chad's are RARE. I went to a catholic high school and the nerds were banging the other nerdy girls. It's like you people live in an alternate universe.

These early sexual encounters with above average men become the yardstick

You think the sex women have at 20 becomes their yardstick? Honey, you need to wake up; that sex was terrible. Most women have done their best to forget it entirely.

And its not all men, but a subset of attractive and highly desirable men.

No one is arguing that attractive men don't have multiple options. You aren't understanding my point though, which is that the AVERAGE man increasingly does not want a monogamous relationship; they feel short-changed. They would prefer to stay single themselves and have periods without sex, to avoid commitment.

But many single women above 30 have a made a conscience choice that marrying a loyal but mediocre man

Be honest with yourself - would you want a woman to marry you when she isn't physically attracted to you? Hell, half the problem exists because so many women already did this and men got burned. The women who are refusing to marry unless they're attracted are the honest / smart ones.

Youre only complaining that you are made to face the consequences for your own choice in men.

Oh, I absolutely take responsibility for only wanting a relationship with a man whom I find sexy and want to fuck daily. It bewilders me that you are suggesting women (AND MEN) settle for anything less than this. I'd rather die alone than rake some poor guy over the coals in a dead bedroom.

[–]SkylineCrash7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's fair enough to want to be with someone you are attracted to but here's the kicker, women are only truly attracted to the top minority of men while men are attracted to the majority of women. You see how this creates an issue right? Supply and demand

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

women are only truly attracted to the top minority of men

I only somewhat agree with this. I think that it is a much higher % than 20% that women can be attracted to.

I think that the top 20% are the ones that are objectively physically attractive enough to get swiped right based on a photo alone; however, there is still another 30-40% who women would also be attracted to if only those guys approached women more IRL.

[–]wazzoz99[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. As I’ve said and the the other poster has repeatedly ignored, a lot of women’s primary casual sexual encounters are mostly with men who wouldn’t give them a second look if they tried to have a LTR with these men. So an average woman feeling only sexually attracted to highly desirable guys who they had random sexual encounters and short fling with during college ends up becoming the barometer for prospective LTR mates, even when those men they typically attract for LTR wouldn’t ever pass the desirability test set up by those highly desirable men who pumped and dumped them during their college years. So they keep chasing these men after realising that the LTR market isn’t for them , and these men continue to treat them as a mere conquest or fuck buddies and not as viable LTR material whilst they believe otherwise. It’s like unattractive men only having casual sexual encounters with model tier escorts, and then feeling only attracted and entitled to model tier women for long term relationships , just because he has only had sexual experiences with top tier escorts, who would have never slept with him if the arrangement wasnt so transactional.

It’s a similar dynamic for average women who experience the cock carousel and short term serial monogamy phase during college. Women like some of my sisters have the self awareness to realise this truth about why the ended up in the constant serial monogamy/casual sex phase and couldn’t ever graduate to LTR with these men, and accept that their experiences means they will rarely ever be sexually satisfied with men they would attract as longterm mates. I think many women who voluntarily do stay single, are consciously aware of this.

There are also many other women who won’t ever break out their self delusions about their own worth in the relationship market and will continue to blame men for their own choices.

[–]SmeggingRightGot flair? Hell yeah!5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

while men are attracted to the majority of women

Speak for yourself, bud. It's fair to say I'm attracted to only about 1/4 of women.

[–]TheReformist941 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeh they feel short changed because you made him pay for sex with monogamy whilst handing it sex to every one else for free. Why should he enter a relationship with you?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Who are you talking to exactly? This fictional woman in your head doesn't match my past relationship history at all.

It's actually interesting watching this twisted hill that you sad men repeatedly try to die on.

[–]illbefinehonest 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Just because that's not you doesn't mean it's not the experience of a large number of men. Those men don't want to then go on to marry a woman that's monkey branched her way through her 20s - following the grass is greener mindset is something that people don't really grow out of.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

This “experience of men” is fictional too because like I said in my OP, most women aren’t single between 20-30, they have committed LTRs.

“Branch swinging” seems to be another way of saying breaking up and moving on to someone who is better for you, and I mean, no shit, people get smarter as they get experience. But men are the ones who initiate most non-marital breakups, so it’s not women with the case of “grass is greener”.

[–]illbefinehonest 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Keep deluding yourself. I wonder who knows more about men's situation - is it the men? No it must be the women! Let me shut up and you can tell me how it is.

Also no that is not what branch swinging is. Branch swinging is looking for, flirting with, and lining up the replacement boyfriend before the current guy knows there's a problem. Instead of dealing with the relationship problems these girls will swing from dick to dick, and they don't even realize what they're doing is wrong. These girls are sneaky, spineless, easily drawn away by the next shiny. These girls are not wifey material, ever.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But like I said, statistics show that men are the ones initiating most non-marital breakups and women initiate most divorces. This means that in most relationships, it is men who are the ones moving on, which is because of my main OP - men increasingly do not want to get married, nor do they care about "wifey material".

[–]reluctantly_red9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Youre only complaining that you are made to face the consequences for your own choice in men. Thats ok, thats life. Many women, like my sisters are perfectly fine with the choices theyve made and the exciting youthful years they had

I gather your sisters are still in their 30's. I don't doubt for a minute that they are currently fine with their choices. Its in their mid 40's to early 50's that women come to realize that they don't get to have it all (no one does). Middle age single career women come to realize that not everyone gets to be CEO. That not everyone gets to have that great smoking hot husband. That their choice to live that passionate exciting life means that they'll never have kids and the family they always wanted but kept putting off. Here in northern California I'm surrounded by vineyards which owe their very existence to the drinking habits of these women.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Soooooo true about NorCal lolol

I wonder if our area is more redpill inducing than others?

[–]chaddad90007 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If young women decided to compromise and pursue relationships with stable "boring" average males who would be less likely to go all polyamorous than the highly desirable and promiscuous minority, there would be less women trapped in these situations.

Well there's an entire sub telling boring average guys they should only have polyamorous casual relationships with women. Its been quarantined so I can't quite remember what its called, but you can find it on old reddit.

[–]slytherluneA broken lass on a Halifax pier7 points8 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

and at 30 they are jaded and traumatized from their experiences. They cannot bear the pain of love or intimacy, so they settle for casual, which is again with a guy they're attracted to.

Speak for yourself. Preferably after you turn 30.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

That is the more common case of what I see for both men and women, than the story of people who are single for the entire time from 20-30 and pumped and dumped.

[–]slytherluneA broken lass on a Halifax pier5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

When I was jaded and traumatized from my own experiences -- not being pumped and dumped, but six years of something that left me suicidal -- I stopped chasing partners. I knew I couldn't be a good partner so I dropped out and healed.

Why is this logic not more prevalent among people our age (27-33)? What is so bad about abstinence for a short period of healing and adjustment? Are you all just terrible at masturbation?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

How are we not agreeing with each other? Women at 30 are opting out of dating altogether because of their past experiences. It's not because "men aren't marriage material", it's because not all women are in a place where they desire or feel ready for marriage themselves.

[–]slytherluneA broken lass on a Halifax pier1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Good question. [blink] I'm sorry.

I think where I'm quibbling is that I read you as saying women are replacing actual dating with casual sex -- I'm trying to say we can do better than that, because who wants to be a plate well into her thirties? But I may be misreading you very badly. I apologize.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No woman willingly enters into "plate status". Women don't know how to get commitment, they casually date a guy they find attractive, not knowing he is a Chad, then later realize he isn't going to commit.

[–]chaddad90003 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The whole "plate" thing is silly, but I don't think its uncommon for women 27-33 to have a bang buddy while they look around for "the one". In that case, its the women who are pumping-n-dumping.

[–]slytherluneA broken lass on a Halifax pier1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Since when does casual dating require us to open our legs -- and ourselves to a host of nasty possibilities? Chad will leave regardless of getting what he wants, so why are we letting him leave with the smug satisfaction of having racked up one more P&D?

[–]TheReformist940 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You don't know how to obtain commitment because you don't have to do anything apart from spread your legs and every man will come to you. You've never had to learn how to.

Even chad, if he is genetically blessed, still has some charm and skill.

If you lot were the average male, having decent personality, hobbies, and never touched by a woman for years at a time, can't get that itch scratched when you want, you lot would have more sympathy

[–]RacyFry0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would second her.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because modern men do not want marriage or children

except those who do

[–]09f911029d7Purple Pill-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men want the sitcom version of marriage, complete with the sitcom version of a job that pays for said marriage, not the version that actually exists

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

not the version that actually exists

you mean the miserable one or the neutral one?

I think most men aren't looking for some sort of flashy, highly euphoric life; we just want to eliminate and avoid the unneccessary suffering, reach relative coziness and some sense of meaning. how likely is that in a marriage?

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Modern men The top tier men I find attractive want polygamous open relationships, non-monogamy, and no form commitment. Relationships are "cuffs", marriage is a "ball and chain".

Emphasis here is because most men are not able to make this choice as if they had options. Most men would rather be in a LTR but you're talking about the few who women do find attractive. You do realise you've yourselves to blame here. You keep throwing yourselves at the most attractive men, who don't have to settle for you, then making claims like:

men don't want to get married

No. The reality is he doesn't find you worthy of marriage just as you don't find most men attractive. Even when you say 'I want a man I am attracted to', you're repeating OP's words of 'worthy/unworthy' but in a different way.

Furthermore, those men who don't want to marry are the ones you and other women find most attractive. They are the top 20%. Ironic, but why should they settle when you and a ton of other women like you are offering him commitment-free (marriage-free) sex? This is aside from the tendency of women to find men with Dark Triad traits attractive.

They are the few who have easy access to women just like most women have easy access to men. If you want things to change, stop having commitment-free sex with only a handful of men. The rest of men, the 'bottom 80%' are on the sidelines hoping things get better, but women would rather complain about what they can't have than find a solution or compromise.

There are plenty of men who want to be husbands but if your biology is more important to you than stability, then you've got no one else to blame. You're not going to stop attractive men from playing the market by giving them more sex. As you said, most women want to marry a man they have a spark with, but they're shooting themselves in the foot claiming men pulled the trigger.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Are you all purposefully dense?

Most men would rather be in a LTR

This number is declining is my MAIN POINT. "MOST MEN" increasingly do NOT want to be in an LTR. They don't see it as a good deal. They see it as a hassle and would prefer to be single, despite having periods without sex.

You keep throwing yourselves at the most attractive men, who don't have to settle for you

Women date the men they are attracted to, yes.

The reality is he doesn't find you worthy of marriage

Men increasingly do not find ANY women worthy of marriage. It's not even about the women, it's purely about men and their attitude toward marriage.

those men who don't want to marry are the ones you and other women find most attractive

They're the ones women find attractive, period. It's binary "I'm attracted to him" vs "I'm not attracted to him".

stop having commitment-free sex with only a handful of men.

Stop being presumptuous about me. Like I said, I have opted out for now by choice because of my experience in LTRs. This is what I see from my single girlfriends.

There are plenty of men who want to be husbands but if your biology is more important to you than stability, then you've got no one else to blame.

A man being attractive to a woman is a huge part of "stability". Women have too much experience being in relationships with men they weren't truly attracted to when they were younger. Like me, they'd rather be alone than settle.

but they're shooting themselves in the foot claiming men pulled the trigger.

No woman is blaming men for this. Women would LOVE to have more men that they're attracted to. We can't control it.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're working very hard explaining this to these guys, but they will never ever ever believe that any man anywhere would prefer an option that means less sex, regardless of any other conditions.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We are not being purposefully dense. We told women here and elsewhere that the older you get, the better dating gets for men. So commit to a good man before you're 30.

You're dancing around the truth but not realising it. It's not most men who don't want to marry. The men you find attractive are not 'most men'. We've seen this a million times but women are still convinced the average man is like the men they date. It's just not true.

I agree that men in general see marriage as a trap, but they still desire a woman who will love and respect then enough that they'd want to commit. Those guys who aren't committing? They are the men who women keep throwing sex at.

Your story has been retold many times. RP has mentioned it before but women scoffed at it. Women find dating easy when they are young. They chase excitement and not stability then when they reach 30 they become jaded (as you noted) and cannot find a good man. But the men they spent time with were not good men if they didn't want to commit.

Also, when you're 30, half the marriagable population is off the market. The men who are left? They are either going to cash in on the desperation of women in their 30s because the market swings to men's favour then, or they were always getting laid and were never going to settle. The rest are invisible to women and this is what I've been trying to get at. There are plenty of posts in the datingoverthirty sub where women lament their dating prospects and that men want younger women. You're only talking about the minority of men you are attracted to and making a very broad conclusion. There are plenty of men who would be willing to settle down.

Even though marriage rates are declining, there is another option: cohabitation. They do this a lot in Scandinavian countries so it's not like men aren't willing to commit.

You're claiming men in general don't want to marry, but try to imagine if a guy walked in here and said women in general don't want sex because the women he meets don't want to fuck him even though he has committed to them for years. Would you believe his conclusion that it's all women or just the women he is dating?

[–]professional_incel8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You're a retard thinking every man has options. Most guys that are average and below average have almost no sex, or at least regular sex. These are the guys most willing to enter a long term relationship because of the stability of sex. But of course, women don't want to date these ugly leftovers, and they don't even ping on the relationship radar of women. So when you say "None of the men are willing to commit!!!!111!!", what you really are saying is that you are a Chad chaser because you unconsciously exclude the rest.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Where do I say that every man has options?

I don't know how many times I need to tell you guys the same thing over and over: the number of guys willing to enter an LTR is declining, despite a lack of regular sex.

Women are not going to date a man they are not attracted to, agreed.

[–]chaddad90002 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Going to agree with you. I've known many average chubby white guy types who go player-mode as soon as they get a girl on the hook. I just think its funny as fuck that these guys talk about plate-spinning and etc and now are like "no, no we all secretly want LTRs!"

[–]professional_incel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Where do I say that every man has options?

No but you heavily implied that majority of men have options.

I don't know how many times I need to tell you guys the same thing over and over: the number of guys willing to enter an LTR is declining, despite a lack of regular sex.

Not true, there are a lot of guys who want to enter relationships but women don't even consider them an option because they are ugly.

Women are not going to date a man they are not attracted to, agreed.

Exactly.

[–]TheReformist942 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Entitled. Lower your standards. I have to accept I can't just have an 8, so I fuck 6s and 7s

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Less 6s and 7s men want commitment. It has nothing to do with the women. Men increasingly see relationships as a hassle.

[–]JohnnyDildonics6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

"MOST MEN" increasingly do NOT want to be in an LTR.

Women date the men they are attracted to, yes.

Men increasingly do not find ANY women worthy of marriage. It's not even about the women, it's purely about men and their attitude toward marriage.

They're the ones women find attractive, period. It's binary "I'm attracted to him" vs "I'm not attracted to him".

you contradict yourself twice in less than a paragraph here. /u/KrispyMcSockington is literally laying out the 80//20 rule and you are candidly proving it for us while blaming the lack of faithful men on the overall population instead of the women continually pushing hypergamy's standards beyond 80/20 and into 90/10 territory with their spiraling expectations. Women's demands are literally creating the shortage by excluding more and more men than ever before.

[–]professional_incel5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Don't even bother. Women have a conscience bias where they immediately discount any ugly male as not relationhsip worthy.

[–]JohnnyDildonics3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What I'm trying to illustrate is that it's not even "ugly" men getting sidelined anymore, it's reasonably good-looking dudes that may have a few flaws. Like Shallow Hal on steroids. The kind of average joe that would have had decent success dating around just 10 years ago is now calling himself an incel. That's the gist of my "accelerated hypergamy" argument".

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

ADMIT 80/20 is true or else!!!

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Fantastic reply. I'm not sure I have anything to add. Other than it's sad that the men women are attracted to aren't the "settle down" type & they can't see that so they're on a loop.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Because women do not systematize men in the way that men systematize women.

I guarantee you that 90% of women are oblivious to dividing men into "Alpha" and "Beta" or "Chad" and "Non-Chad". We don't think like this. We only think "I am attracted to him".

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

In acto vs in concreto We categorize & articulate things in thought Evolutionary biology is just a process her vagina doesn't know what these things are. She just feels tingles. We're the ones who understand why.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You try to understand why but you don’t, evidently.

“The great question that has never been answered, and which I have not yet been able to answer, despite my thirty years of research into the feminine soul, is "What does a woman want?” - Freud

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're missing the point of what I'm saying.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I understood your point completely. You're just embarrassed that your "point" made you look like an idiot.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Where did you get that from? You have made it evident you have now knowledge of the subject matter with your response. That's really all there is to it.

[–]Truedemocracy57 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

These men not committing is because you and your friends have bad idea on how to filter guys

Same with guys who think every girls a cheating whore, but can’t filter for quality

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

So basically you disagree that men are increasingly wary of relationships and marriage?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Most men are wary of it because they've seen what happens to betas who became doormats in relationships or whose divorces were initiated by bored women who became unhappy with the stability marriage offered.

What the previous poster was talking about is how men want open or poly relationships. These are the soft harems RP men spoke about before. Those guys are different from betas and they can date, pump and dump as they see fit. Those are top tier men who don't have to settle for most women.

Women believe this is how most men are because the rest of men are invisible or are the equivalent of genderless, sexless mannequins to them. They don't realise most men are sex and intimacy starved for long periods of time, even in marriage.

The betas realised what women were really after so they just refused to play the game, hence their wariness.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think you and other men here underestimate the “average man” and his desires. I recently thought I might like to date someone and went onto OKC, I want to say at least half of the profiles of men had “looking for non-monogamy and hookups” and these were not attractive “Chad” men.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Those apps were made for hooking up...

It's like looking for love in a bar or club. Go to places where people are not looking to hook up first.

You're placing the power of your relationships into the hands of corporations then wondering why they want you to change partners often. They want you to be consumers there too and to treat each other as disposable. They aren't offering you love. They dangle the possibility but they're really offering a shallow substitute.

That being said, go to r/dataisbeautiful and see what the online dating reality is for most men. The guys you're fucking are the top tier men who don't have to commit. They are not the average man.

[–]Mayhzon-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see similiar on female profiles all the time. I don't get it.

[–]JustBakeCakes-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Eat the CaEat the Cakes nowEat the Cakes nowEat the Cakes now

[–]skatinislife4465 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Guy here who mostly agrees. Idk why the onus is being put on women when it comes to avoiding relationships and marriage. By 25-30, almost every guy has heard tales of a relative (or their own parents), friend of a friend, or some relationship where the woman takes half of their resources through divorce. Combine that with even a limited understanding of hypergamy, the 50/50 rate of divorce, an additional 25% of married couples who are unhappy together, and the odds are severely stacked against men and women for marriage. If men are considered more logical, and numbers don’t lie, it’s hard not to be cynical about long-term endeavors and become wary over the enterprise. Raising children in a healthy environment—created by a loving relationship—is the most appealing reason, bar none.

[–]reluctantly_red4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not some evil conspiracy - women are dating the men they are attracted to and hoping it will become a longterm relationship.

Agree that its no evil conspiracy just incredibly naive thinking. If after an extended period none of the attractive men a woman dates want to commit it might be time for her to change strategies. Oh wait -- that's exactly what a lot of them do -- AF/BB.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, she shouldn’t change strategies at all. Too many women “changed strategies” and fucked everyone over by destroying any value of marriage.

[–]reluctantly_red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't disagree. But my condemnation isn't going to stop women. AF/BB is here for the foreseeable future.

[–]Bouletka4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Couldn't agree more. This post should be higher. I live in France, got married at 26 (I wasn't aware of what French relatonships looked like and the dating market either, I'm not French), 8 years ago and all women around me have been jealous of me since.

Because their partners won't commit. The women, with jobs, phisically attractive, the only N-count coming from past committed relationships, can't find men who will commit. So, they engage in serial monogamy looking for someone who might and someone they could have a kid with. Or, more often, get dumped by the man for another woman that eh won't committ to, either.

[–]THE_ANGRY_SHARTER7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this 100%. You should check out r/FemaleDatingStrategy

Even women in their mid to late 30s and 40s can get on an OLD app and have tons of men to sift through. They just need good photos and bare minimum texting skills. Incel ideology is outdated and I think a lot of it comes from men in Muslim countries or Countries that are very very very conservative.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If they wanna be single, that's their choice. Lord knows me being mostly single and keeping shit casual has worked great for me so far for the same reason. I don't have to justify a single god damn thing about my life to anyone, for any reason.

My guy friends under 30 are way, way less in a hurry to chase girls than my guy friends over that age. The corollary to women dodging beta dudes and glomming onto alpha dudes is the alpha's don't value the company of an individual woman and the beta's have learned to do without. Most of them for sure aren't gonna do the old school beta shit like abandoning their hobbies or lifestyle for the sake of some trim. Most of the guys who aren't already locked down aren't really chasing and a lot of the guys who get attention in their 20's to start certainly aren't praising it like mana from heaven.

If one side wants to walk away and the other doesn't that gives them power in the deal. If both sides are fine with walking away then the deal just never happens.

Fire up incognito and grab a fleshlight. It'll save you the headache of worrying about this shit.

[–]wereqryan 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sounds like you've taken the black pill OP. We in the incel community have known about this for a long time.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Here is a comprehensive list of why we want to stay single, because no one ever thinks to actually ask us why:

  • Most men are porn obsessed, and sex is very unfulfilling because they don't bother to learn how to actually touch a woman

  • We are expected to emotionally support them, without any emotional support back

  • Most men are considered ugly because women put in so much more work into their beauty, so men should put more work into their beauty too or just scrap female beauty standards

  • In marriage, women have to manage the household & look after kids with little help from the husband

  • The woman has to maintain a career, and if she doesn't then her future earning is drastically cut, making her more dependant and vulnerable

[–]cooktight 1 points [recovered]  (95 children) | Copy Link

30's are a long way from 40's and 50's and 60's.

Talk to me when you've spoken to you 50 year old sisters, drunk, with their defense mechanisms down and honest.

I'm not saying marrying a beta would have made them happy. But being on their own as they det older is something they have not yet experienced. And it will make up the majority of their life.

Every reasonably attractive and successful 30 year old women feels like nhe has the world at her door step. Why wouldn't they? They have friends, plenty of sexual validation to draw confidence from, money, opportunity, social lives. Reasonable amounts of free time. What more could they want?

[–]washington_breadstixM'gtow31 points32 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

feels like nhe has the world

Man these pronouns are getting ridiculous.

[–]ohheyhi99Conflicted Feminist Man, No Pill8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

😂

[–]IHeartDay914 points15 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

My mum and dad split when my mum was in her 50's. She vowed never to remarry. As far as I know, she's never even had another relationship. She had her kids and a rich, fulfilling social life, and that was all she needed. I asked her a few times over the years if she ever wanted to date, and she said that she would consider it if the "right guy" came along, but she had zero desire to do so. She's in her late 70's now, and does not regret being single.

[–]md8716RP theorist6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That's completely different, she had her kids and already experienced marriage. They are discussing women who haven't even had that. Which can feel pretty hollow when you realize you've made no impact on the world other than generating income for a company and satisfying your animal urges.

[–]SmeggingRightGot flair? Hell yeah!10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Which can feel pretty hollow when you realize you've made no impact on the world other than generating income for a company and satisfying your animal urges.

Isn't that the life RP advocates for themselves? Am asking you as your flair states 'rp theorist'.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah it does sound like spinning plates and holding frame.

[–]Kos_-_Omak-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Isn't that the life RP advocates for themselves?

Not because it's the best or most fulfilling way to live, but because that's the optimal strategy for men in the modern world we live in. Men shouldn't get married because marriage is a really shitty deal for men. Spinning plates 4 life isn't very fulfilling but it's better than divorce rape.

[–]md8716RP theorist-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Low level beginner RP advocates that. Advanced RP advocates seeking a life with purpose so that your frame doesn't revolve around sex. But even despite that, the vast majority of women possess a biologically induced maternal instinct and live under different set of rules and criteria than men. Both for external judgment and internal judgment learned from an early age.

[–]IHeartDay92 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Having kids without a partner was specifically mentioned in the OP as an option for these women.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot11 points12 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Talk to me when you've spoken to you 50 year old sisters, drunk, with their defense mechanisms down and honest.

Lmao and then do the same with long married 50 year old women

do you think you're going to get glowing reports

[–]cooktight 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm not saying marrying a beta would have made them happy.

[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Neither would marrying an alpha. Way too much aggro.

[–]s_slayer2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I married an alpha at age 28, divorced 10 years later. No regrets.

[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why did you leave him?

[–]s_slayer1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He was from another country. We had a lot of cultural differences, and when I met him he smoked weed all day which made him calm and happy. After our kids were born, he quit smoking weed and became a totally different person. Moody, harsh, too serious, and he also placed a personal ad looking for other women while I was pregnant with our first child. Left his browser open and I found it in his inbox. I never saw him the same way again.

[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ouch. I’m sorry.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends on the man

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19936 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

these are not copes. lol. keep dreaming about women crawling back to men, never gonna happen.

we know men aint worth shit and that will never change.

[–]s_slayer4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah it’s funny how all these guys think snagging a man is our life’s goal. I’ve had five serious relationships including a marriage and kids, and I am in no rush to be with another one. Now my life is about ME. If a guy comes along and can fit into my life then maybe I’ll see what happens. Once we are in our 40s the ball is in our court, we don’t need a man by then. I know women who are having babies on their own in their early 40s. Marriage is entirely overrated as are most relationships unless you are mature enough to have a great one with another mature person. That happens when you’re older.

[–]Truedemocracy522 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. And 30 is approaching the wall but you still can live a party lifestyle at that age. What will kill them is at 35, 36, 37 the trends will be this:

Men don’t date older than themselves for the most part

The only men they will want to date are near 40

The still single men at this age likely aren’t single by choice and are very low value or have issues

The ones that have their shit together have leverage and at that age know it in the dating market. Sure one of these women could snatch him up, but he could also date a 28 year old instead

[–]TheReformist947 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But the beta men when they are 50, from now, they wil be miserable and alone and full of bitterness at having a free buffet of sex throughout their youth. Even rawer deal!

[–]reluctantly_red9 points10 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Talk to me when you've spoken to you 50 year old sisters, drunk, with their defense mechanisms down and honest.

THIS!!! The wall hits professional women in their 40's (a lot later than TRP will admit) -- but it does hit hard and quick at that time. Lots of stuff hits all at the same time. Their careers plateau or stall. There dreams of having kids evaporate. Their ability to easily get all the male attention they desire fades.

I'm a 55 year old professional guy (lawyer). My world is full of dissatisfied 40 and 50 something women.

[–]badgersonice2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Their ability to easily get all the male attention they desire fades.

And how would that be any different if they were married? Marriage doesn’t change male biology: his sexual attention will always be drawn to youth, and she will have less and less youth with time. A marriage certificate won’t magically keep a man looking at her when she’s 60 the way he looks at 20 year olds.

That is how men are biologically, and no woman can change it. The only choice for women is to accept that male attention will fade with age, no matter what effort you take. Women should enjoy their youth while it lasts, and then likewise enjoy their time when they become invisible to men.

[–]s_slayer2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women are the same, we definitely don’t drool over 60 yr olds ffs. We’re checking out the hotties in their 20s and 30s. And actually some of us won’t mind becoming invisible to men after enduring decades of lewd comments and cat calls and stares. You act like our sex appeal is the end all be all for attractive women. It’s not. I’m in my 40s and my friendships with other women have become far more valuable than they were before. I have two teenagers who are amazing. My life is richer than ever. And I still “got it” which is why I’m dating a well off man of 50. Of course he’s going to look at young, beautiful women. I won’t stop checking out hot men. And if he and I don’t work out, I think I’ll at least have made another friend. Life is good.

[–]badgersonice0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you’re you’re not getting what I’m getting at here. I’m a woman too. I’m criticizing the RP men’s “women after age 38 (or whatever) are all gross unwanted old bags who have no hope of any male attention ever again... oh wait, unless she marries at 17, in which case her hubby will grow a marriage-induced brain tumor making him think she looks 17 forever” silliness.

I know perfectly well that many many older women are just fine and many are very happy, married or single. And I also know that these guys are waaaay overestimating how good they’ll look when they’re older. And I also agree with you: I think a lot of that male attention of lewd sexual come-ons is cheap and undesirable, and that many older women deeply appreciate it when they finally become invisible to a bunch of sex-hungry creepy strangers.

But, since shallow visual sexual attraction is actually the only kind of attention many of these shallow RP guys value, I wanted to point out that the one thing they value the most (instant intense sexual attraction solely to one’s own physical appearance) isn't something that marriage will allow a woman to keep forever, even if they married young. In truth, that instant, solely physical, attraction is not really what most women want, but it is what RP men desire more than anything. So they keep projecting their own desire for instant physical lust on women. Then, they use that loss of constant, but empty, male attention as women age as a threat to try to scare women into marrying as young as possible, because they just plain don’t understand women at all.

[–]reluctantly_red8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

That is how men are biologically

Not really. When a couple has been together for a long time they develop a store of joint memories. Guys remember what their wives looked like years ago. This is I think one of the best arguments for marriage. When an old guy looks at his 60 year old wife he sees some of the young woman he fell in love with.

Edit: can't believe I wrote that -- they're going to take my RP card away.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'll give you an up vote for keeping romance alive Red.

[–]HennythepainawayI don't even like Henny2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wife goggles are absolutely a thing

[–]badgersonice4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh don’t downvoted, whoever’s being a sourpuss. I fully believe that plenty of men do still love their wives, often very deeply as they age (although plenty don’t). I think they can still find her beautiful in a familiar, comforting way that keeps him interested. But that “male attention” you’re talking about, men’s intense attention to physical appearance and youthful beauty, will fade with age no matter whether she’s married or not. For women who want that, marriage won’t make a difference.

Also, as for your RP card, that was about as typical of Red pill as it gets. You’re far from the only RPer to cling to magical blue pill-like thinking when it paints men in a better light. (I mean, I hope you realize that the tale you’re weaving sounds exactly like the female version “Disney lie” that RP rejects. In this case, it’s the idea that, if you just marry young and work hard enough at being the best wife you can, then you’ll be rewarded because your man will turn into a unicorn who will think you look 18 and desirable forever.) If you want to be cynical and negative about how women are hypergamous bitches by nature, then it’s only practical to accept the negatives about men too. The truth is that male sexuality is drawn to youth, and marriage doesn’t change male biology. It is just too fantastical to believe that if a woman just wifes at a man hard enough, he’ll develop a convenient and perfect long-term hallucination that she’s reversed the aging process.

Hm, although maybe you’re not really Red-pill: how can you possibly call yourself red pilled if you don’t believe that women turn into worthless metaphorical jugs of curdled old milk when they hit “the dreaded wall”?

[–]s_slayer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. My stepdad still thought my mother was breathtakingly beautiful when she passed away at 64.

[–]cooktight 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sexual attention is validation. The self esteem and status that draws from it.

Marriage and children is another form of validation/status (if the man is good enough). Its impressive to have a quality man commit his life to you than a being a chad bed post notch, at least for many women.

[–]badgersonice0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They are different forms of validation. An older woman will not get validation that she’s attractive and desirable to men regardless of whether she has a ring on her finger or not. She may get validation that her husband loves her for her personality and devotion and their shared history, but it’s different from being fawned over for how you look. For many women, she might like his familiar affection better than being admired for being young and beautiful, but that doesn’t mean that she might not miss being young and beautiful. Nothing anyone can do will make her feel like she’s desirable the way a hot skinny perky-titted 20 year old is.

Its impressive to have a quality man commit his life to you than a being a chad bed post notch, at least for many women.

Aaaaand the only way you guys say women can get a marriage is by being hot when they’re young... so an older married no longer possesses the what got him to commit in the first place. Marriage doesn’t change a damned thing about how older women look or how little men are actually attracted to them.

[–]Nodoxxintoxin5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You’ll have plenty of time to ask them as they grow older, single women live longer. https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/culture-news/a27606192/women-happier-without-marriage-and-children/

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

30's are a long way from 40's and 50's

As someone looking at 50s door, no it's not. It's terrifying short. They will learn this one when it's too late as you implied.

[–]PanderjitSingh_k3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Add in affirmative action everywhere, a culture that worships them, social programs funded mostly by men, and it’s no surprise they think they’re ‘amazing’.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yea, agree with this. But into of it, you severely underestimate how much many men are fine with being single as well. You're making an inaccurate comparison because you assume the experiences are so drastically different that men would never care for remaining bachelors. To add to this further these women are still technically on the sexual market as their value diminishes their tune will change & with this their contentment assuming no permanent partner appears, their Ego will indeed be their undoing.

[–]s_slayer3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I have known many many older women who married later in life. It’s a myth that we have no value. The sexual attractiveness part is really unimportant at some point. These women who married are not pretty at all. They did marry religious men so churches might be a great place for an older women to find an older man if she is looking. Older people are looking for companionship, not hot sex.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are always looking for hot sex. I know men; mentors of mine millionaires 50+ in age pursuing & texting women that were my peers in their 20's/college age. Male libido is boundless. If they can they will. Once your fertility starts moving on the downtick; to society you're a widow, a ghost. Especially without a family or partner. Church will be your only salvation because to society you dont exist.

[–]cooktight 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

I made no comment on men's happiness staying single

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Aimed at op.

[–]wazzoz99[S] 0 points1 point  (54 children) | Copy Link

But if these women feel lonely by middle age, nothing is stopping them from becoming single mothers by choice and filling that void with a child via IVF/Sperm donor or freezing their eggs when they are young. Women are blessed with options that men dont have. Im not saying some these women wont be emotional wrecks, but because of the amount of options these women have in family formation, they'll be far more fullfilled than single men in their age groups. Sure they will become parasites to society, whilst raising a generation of dysfunctional children, but notwithstanding that, women will be far more content than men in similar situations. Theyll survive, whilst alienated single childless men off themselves or spiral into drug addictions in large numbers by the time theyre middle age, as they do now. And these women will succeed in consolidating their genders newly gained social power by showing young women that they can dictate both the sexual and relationship realms at the expense of men, whilst men who will potentially go MGTOW will see their dire future through their older miserable single male predecessors and maybe make better choices and comply with women unrealistic and ever contradictory demands when the next generation of men start questioning the status quo in dating. Men will need to tap dance to the tune of liberated empowered women to be fulfilled in life. The future is truly female, unfortunately for low status and undesirable men.

[–]Truedemocracy513 points14 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Plenty is stopping them. Getting shamed by their peers is stopping them. That’s like saying nothing is stopping a guy from ordering a bride from another country

Sure, he can do that - but it’s pretty pathetic

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Plenty is stopping them. Getting shamed by their peers is stopping them.

usually so invisible to men. so true

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s only a matter of time till so many of them do it the shaming won’t work

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Usually people have peers like themselves who are either good with your lifestyle choices or making the same lifestyle choices. The rest of the world are pretty much strangers so peer wouldn't be an apt term. So she'd probably have her friends saying you go girl. Single women and married women are usually in different social spheres.

[–]wazzoz99[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Because social shaming totally worked when it comes to curtailing behaviours once perceived as problematic like recreational drug taking, Underage sex, Homosexuality, and Sex before marriage?

Single motherhood is rising with all racial demographics in the US and Europe. Social shaming has rarely worked when it comes to these kinds of issues. Single motherhood will just become normalised, like other once taboo topics and alternative lifestyle choices.

[–]Truedemocracy51 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That social shaming wasn’t from their peer group

[–]cooktight 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

nothing is stopping them from becoming single mothers by choice and filling that void with a child via IVF/Sperm donor or freezing their eggs when they are young

Men drastically underestimate the costs of pregnancy and raising small children. You've got no idea how difficult those options are for women, especially in the US. The effects on career are debilitating, even for very successful women. Thele are some that get lucky with circumstances, family etc. But for most what you're describing is not realistic nad hetce its rarity in practice.

There is still the option of single motherhood, the old fashioned way. But that is an option with career sacrifice almost certainly built in. Even in countries with very generous single mother support it requires acceptance of a lower standard of living and a constrained social life.

[–]wazzoz99[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Like with most female consequence of the sexual revolutions, it’ll be outsourced to the state because that is where the tide of change is heading when it comes to government policies, because women are an incredibly powerful and cohesive voting bloc. Most western countries will be moving towards a progressive welfare state model like Western and Northern Europe, which will allow many women to have children by themselves, without huge personal costs to single mothers. Subsidised childcare is now a thing in many countries like Australia, where career women who are single mothers can send their children to day cares without significant costs . Welfare policies that’ll allow career women to not depend on male breadwinners like Norway has raised birth rates whilst allowing women to mate with shrinking proportion of men. This is the future of the rest of the west.

https://sciencenorway.no/childlessness-fathers-forskningno/a-quarter-of-norwegian-men-never-father-children/1401047

[–]cooktight 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

You think that life for single mothers in those countries is nome kitd of never ending disneyland where every single wish is catered to by an army of servants? You have no idea of the reality of that. Native population rates in all of those countries are absolutely plummeting because even with all that support women are choosing not to have children. Welfare state means enough (if you're lucky) of the smaller shared pie. Even with all that support is not enough get women to get anywhere near replacement rates.

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Welfare state means enough (if you're lucky) of the smaller shared pie.

Yet somehow the most generous countries are also the richest (significantly more prosperous than the USA). Go figure.

[–]wazzoz99[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Read the Norway link. These measures are having a discernible difference in birth rates of career and working class women, partly at the expense of the marriageability of working class men. If you give single mothers enough welfare, birth rates trend start to slowly reverse. Although it’ll take time to change complex social trends that have an economic, social and cultural component. Norway has the highest native birth rate of any European country, although it is still below replacement. But it does show appropriate levels of single mother welfare has an impact on birth rates.

[–]reluctantly_red1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men drastically underestimate the costs of pregnancy and raising small children for women.

My first wife was one her feet in less than an hour and back at work in less than two months after giving birth to our son. She had our daughter 11 months later and recovered even quicker.

[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s incredibly rare.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy7 points8 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

nothing is stopping them from becoming single mothers by choice

Great, more fatherless sons, cuz that seems to be working out so well currently.

[–]SmeggingRightGot flair? Hell yeah!2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great, more fatherless sons, cuz that seems to be working out so well currently.

Yeah, can't see more kids without fathers or two parents being a good thing.

[–]wazzoz99[S] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Im predicting that as fatherless children becomes the norm in many communities, we will have pseudo communes organised by the government and rent a father programs that will mean many of these boys will be able to have male figures for 7 hours week. Ofcourse at the cost of predominantly single male tax payers. The government will increasingly become the role of a father to many women. Remember, a feminist welfare state that caters to the needs of single mothers that currently exists in much of western Europe would have been seen as completely blasphemous to the sensibilities of Europeans 100 years ago. But the female vote has meant that women are taking far more active role in shaping government welfare policies for their needs. Once women have a need for pseudo father/Male figures for their fatherless children, the government will provide.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sounds like an experiment in male child abuse.

[–]ffbtaw2-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmeggingRightGot flair? Hell yeah!1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Im predicting that as fatherless children becomes the norm in many communities, we will have pseudo communes organised by the government and rent a father programs that will mean many of these boys will be able to have male figures for 7 hours week.

And I'd predict a pedo stampede if that were to happen.

[–]ameriveaux1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m all for bashing women sometimes but if men won’t get off their ass and vote and participate , them they deserve the future and government they get

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

we will have pseudo communes

Just saw this the other day..."mommunes"

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So much cognitive dissonance in that article.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol can't imagine an article like that without it!

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 1993-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

if women want kids but no male around its their prerogative. men cause more damage to the kid and mother than they help.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So, women raising boys to be men without a male influence. That's some fucked up entitled arrogant shit, but I guess that should be expected.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

it's not arrogant at all. a woman has all the rights to go to a sperm bank and raise the kid alone. a man is not needed in the picture and more and more women are starting to realize this.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Its not about YOU ffs, its about the best thing for a young boy growing up to be a man. And people wonder why women are called selfish and self centered...

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i wasnt talking about me, ffs. i said a woman. any woman.

and women are under no obligation to include the father in the process of raising the kid.

[–]katymarxPurple Pill Woman4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do they have to become parasites? Every MC single mom I know doesn't take any social assistance. Perhaps the self employed ones might leverage chip for their kids healthcare but that's a small cost compared to housing, food stamps, etc. LC women have been doing this for a few decades already so no new trends there.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

But if these women feel lonely by middle age, nothing is stopping them from becoming single mothers by choice and filling that void with a child via IVF/Sperm donor or freezing their eggs when they are young.

That won't make them happy or content.Past a certain age women can only get sex ,at best , from high value men.What women want is relationships (not necessarily long ones)

Men will need to tap dance to the tune of liberated empowered women to be fulfilled in life.

Women need men more than men need women.Especially if in the coming years technology finds a way for men to fulfill their sexual needs without women.

[–]wazzoz99[S] 2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

What makes you think technological advancements, automation and the inevitability of UBI won’t make average men more disposable?

[–]Truedemocracy57 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don’t hold your breath on any of those things kid

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Because women still need men for tingles ,money,security and validation.That won't change by technology or automation.UBI won't happen and even if it happens it will crash horribly very quickly.

[–]katymarxPurple Pill Woman7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

We make our own money now and sex drive stops with menopause so validation becomes less important. No one ever mentions companionship here oddly enough. That's where women and men desire a close confidant in our lives, and it's not completely going away.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You don't make enough money though.At least not enough to support a child.

Menopause happens at about 50...what you gonna do until then?Also I'm not completely convinced that womens need for validation is solely because of sex drive

No one ever mentions companionship here oddly enough. That's where women and men desire a close confidant in our lives, and it's not completely going away.

I agree with that

[–]katymarxPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Who me? I totally make enough $ to support a child.

Menopause can vary from 45-60. Ive always had wacky cycles so can't plan life according to a unknown range that spans over a decade.

Everyone wants validation of their personhood. It's why incels exist. Otherwise low value men would go to prostitutes like they did for thousands of years.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not you specifically,I don't know you.I mean women in general.

About menopause, is it really important if it's 45 or 60? My point is they will pass a significant amount of time alone.

Incels need both sex and validation.They don't go to prostitutes mostly because they are too timid to go.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19932 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

nope, we dont. but whatever floats loser men's boats. coping is so hard for loser men. they even have delusions of power. tsk tsk

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why do you think it's women that are so obsessed with marriage and not men?You are delusional

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19931 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

we are not. after all, women are told they are obsessed with it. once the illusion shatters women are more likely to never re marry.

marriage is a lie sold to women by men who are the only party that benefits from it. women benefit from marriage only after it is dissolved.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women benefit from marriage in all it's stages.They are less likely to remarry than men because divorced old women are less desirable for marriage than their male equivalent.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19931 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

sure thing jan.

[–]Mayhzon0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The only loser here is you. Your ruthless aggression spells bitterness.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19931 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

okie, sweetcheeks.

[–]Ilivetowork0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I’m not disagreeing but why do you think women need men more?

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Money,security,companionship.Women also desire families much more than men.

[–]Ilivetowork0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Men don’t desire companionship and sex? I’m just curious. I do want a man for the companionship but I was already married , have my child, make ton of $$ and honestly rarely think about sex. I’m not sure why I’m even looking but I do enjoy the company of men once in a while .

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes we do but as long we get sex we don't need it as much(comparatively).Women are more relationship oriented than men.

I’m just curious. I do want a man for the companionship but I was already married , have my child, make ton of $$ and honestly rarely think about sex. I’m not sure why I’m even looking but I do enjoy the company of men once in a while .

But you did get married and had a child.Im guessing if you go for a long while without romantic companionship you will miss it more.

[–]Ilivetowork0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’ve been divorced for 5 years . I do miss the companionship but nothing else .

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean,good for you,but that's not the case for most women.Most don't make a lot of money for example.You also did get a child from your previous marriage.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you've got it backwards; men need women more than women need men. nice cope, bro.

[–]Bntt894 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I dont see a problem with it if they are happy with it. I find it super pretentious when people try to tell you what YOUR happiness should be. If women find happiness by being single fine. I think men should be happy for being single too, if both sides could stop saying that the other side is shit that's why they are single that would be great. If your single because you think guys/girls are shit it doesn't really show that you really want to be single though but you have to be because ppl dont meet your standards.

[–]janeaustenfan993 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My dad said he raised me so I’ll never need a man. And he told me marriage isn’t necessary for happiness, all when I was a kid. I think he was setting me up for the realities of the dating market.

[–]tiffytaffylaffydaffy5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is an assumption by the op the average Joe is oh so nice and ready to settle down. Average Joe has the same sex drive as so called Chase , and they all act pretty much the same. In fact, average Joe's and ugly guys are bigger liars in my experience.

Maybe men are difficult to deal with! Maybe there's less incentive for women to deal with cheating, mental and physical abuse, and flat out disrespect in the name of love.

[–]trettles2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The birth rate in the state the OP is from is extremely low (1.6). The only thing keeping it above one is immigrants having 4-5 kids. I'm in a neighbouring state, and i know many women who don't have & don't want kids. None of them are scrambling to find a low tier man to knock them up, myself included. I'd rather be single for life and never have sex again than settle for what's out there. I had 3 long term relationships in my 20s (3 years each) and all of them were extremely unsatisfying. There really is no reason to tie myself down with a fat, balding, man-child, who expects me to be his mother-replacement & gets upset if I earn more than him or speak to other men. I'd rather be dead.

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[–]SqueaksScreech11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mh twin is single by choice because she doesn't want to put up with unwanted stress or being harrassed about children. She's literally happy being celibate and single.

[–]chaddad90007 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

IDK, but I think its more common that professional women shack-up with the perma-boyfriend and don't have kids.

Cock carousel and chad pump-dump is overblown in rp mythology.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. Looking around, the norms around here are becoming more like Europe.

[–]wazzoz99[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

We called that a de facto relationship where I live(Melbourne) and statistically, it is far more unstable and precarious of an arrangement for women than traditional marriage. It’s essentially serial monogamy, where men in these relationships are far less likely to commit longterm with their partners and are more likely to have children with multiple other women. It’s desirable men having their cake and eating it too, since in many places, these types of arrangements lead to partner-less single mothers dependant on welfare, and highly desirable but irresponsible men having multiple families.

[–]chaddad9000-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Educated professional women almost never have kids outside of wedlock though. If they want kids, they're far more likely to rinse a betabux than get knocked-up by chad thunderbowels.

[–]OatsGYOWMGTOW[🍰] 4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I'd say good for them if not for the government(taxpayers) subsidizing their shitty decisions.

Single mothers are a plague, and we funded it.

[–]neualgae 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

??? Career-focused women who become single mothers by choice in their 30's are not the ones on welfare, what?

[–]chomponthebit0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

They’re creating business for the prison system

[–]we-are-men-with-ven7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nope, quite the opposite.

Single mothers by choice (IVF) have very well fuctioning children, that in some areas - faired better than those in nuclear families.

[–]tritter211Pragmatic2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Those are very few in numbers, aren't they? the guy above you is talking about impulse oriented single mothers. (aka women who get pregnant with criminals, from one night stands, etc)

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

What about single, deadbeat dads?

[–]chomponthebit3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women are the gatekeepers of sex. The women who allow garbage people to dump semen in them are obviously not guarding those wide gates

[–]allweknowisD7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You sure sound like a guy that would happily create more single mothers. After all, not your responsibility at all if you father a child right?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You mean the guys they hold accountable, throw in jail and who live in poverty while their wages are garnished because someone made them a parent against their will?

Or the men who were dodgy, abusive and possibly criminal who she couldn't resist fucking without protection?

I mean, it's not like either party thought this through, but at least she had a choice not to make the life of her child and the child's father more difficult. But she didn't care and expects others to finance her choices. He was forced into it because consent to sex is consent to parenting for him, but not for her.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's possible to say all of the above are human trash.

[–]Barneysparky2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women like he is talking about fund their own children.

[–]DragoonXFury22 Yr Black Virgin Skater Stoner Anime Nerd NPC0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Watched Girls. Enjoyed that show.

(Wow, can still see my flair!)

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It means a lot of economic opportunity for men who are replacing the functions of a missing boyfriend/husband.

If those women are happy, good for them. I need to take care of my own life, not theirs.

[–]wazzoz99[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lol. Im thinking of eventually starting a "rent a father" or "rent an older brother" business in my area, considering single mother by choice seems very much in vogue among upper middle class women.

[–][deleted] 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, single women are better off than single men and the scientific literature agrees with this. Single men are more likely to commit suicide than married men. Single women are NOT more likely to commit suicide than married women. Single men make less money than married men. Single women do NOT make less money than married women, they actually make more. Single men are the group most likely to become homeless, the same is not true for single women.

TRPillers/MGTOW are coping. Unless you're upper middle-class , you CANNOT spin plates as a man in your 50s. Working-class/low middle-class men tend to make terrible bachelors and are generally the types who end up being alcoholic, homeless, mentally ill etc. Being bachelor only works for upper middle-class men.

On an individual level, men need women more than women need men. Men don't even go to their doctor when they're on their own. (yes, there are many studies that find a relationship between masculinity and being less willing to ask for medical help)

[–]wazzoz99[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To be fair, all those studies that show that married men make more money and are healthier than single men has more to do with selection bias. Women select those men with those traits and characteristics. They reject men who don’t earn as much and who may be suffering from depression or unhealthy lifestyles which lead to shorter lifespans. I don’t think the act of marriage automatically makes men wealthier, although added motivations of providing for your family probably does contribute somewhat. Although yes, I totally agree with everything else you have said.

[–]SocialObserver011 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting post. This is exactly why big pharma needs to produce a drug that zaps sexual libido from men without side effects. Furthermore, it should be socially acceptable to use such a drug. It's clear that a good chunk of women have no need for about 35-45% of men out there. Those men should be allowed to have their libido stripped from them and not be made slaves to it watching porn and fucking dirty hookers.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Women who don't establish families in their 30s are failures in their 40s+. For some women this is okay, most of them are in echo chambers shielding them from this reality.

It's basically the woman equivalent of "having a good job is no big deal, just make enough money to buy beer and pay rent."

Theoretically this is great. But eventually everyone else will have moved on and now you're not capable of catching up because you're 10 years behind your peers.

Are some guys happy working menial jobs for beer money indefinitely? Yes. Are some women happy with this lifestyle indefinitely? Yes.

But most will find themselves playing catch-up, scrambling to start a family, having regrets or paying for expensive fertility treatments.

You can't escape biology. Procreation is your purpose. Eventually reality catches up and hope you're too delusional and insulated for that to become clear.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Procreation is your purpose.

Umm, no. Children are an unfortunate side effect of our fondness for sex. Happily, we have figured out how to prevent them!

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Children are an unfortunate side effect of our fondness for sex.

So you think these erogenous zones and their "fondness" just spontaneously evolved? Or do you think there's a purpose to this?

Whether or not you want to admit it, biology has given us purpose. And procreation is one of them.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or do you think there's a purpose to this?

That question is above my pay grade.

[–]Mayhzon0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I hope you are sarcastic, because if you aren't...

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A lot more sex is had for recreation than procreation.

[–]Truedemocracy55 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you think these women are genuinely happy then you’re pretty naive. Watch what women do, not what they say. Late 20s and going out to bars frequently, multiple wine nights a week, and a string of guys with no relationship in sight is pretty pathetic

Unless a woman GENUINELY has no interest in a family or kids then she will actively regret the above lifestyle, which ends with crying to her friends about her guy trouble.

Are there women who genuinely don’t give a fuck about their biological imperative and just want to have fun? Yea sure, and those women can avoid the wall for the most part because sex is always available to woman based on any age while commitment isn’t.

But the party will end soon for them, believe that

[–]wazzoz99[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not saying that there won’t be many single women who will be frustrated about their single status, just that they will still be far more fulfilled than the average single man. And many have made informed decisions about their longterm happiness and many would much rather be a little miserable and alone than settle down with a mediocre but stable man who they will have no sexual feelings for and who will never measure up to their previous lovers, and who they will eventually resent and hate until the inevitable divorce. Many women don’t want to end up like their repressed mothers married to unattractive beta male workhorse husbands. They don’t want that life and prefer taking risks for their own sexual and romantic fulfilment. These women are taking measures risks for their own personal satisfaction

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are there women who genuinely don’t give a fuck about their biological imperative and just want to have fun? Yea sure, and those women can avoid the wall for the most part because sex is always available to woman based on any age while commitment isn’t.

That has not been my experience, lol.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker5 points6 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Celibate women have personality traits that should probably be selected out of the gene pool, anyway. Beta men who either don't improve themselves enough to attract a woman or who aren't enterprising enough to travel to a developing country to attract a traditionally-minded partner have traits that should probably be selected out of the gene pool, anyway. If you either refuse to or are unable to have sex, nature doesn't care. The human species will continue based upon the genes of those who do have sex and procreate.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse4 points5 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

We'll all become like Japan and Germany with their hyperanemic birth rates. America is already approaching the event horizon with birth rates in the 1.80's. This is going to cause a major economic crisis.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Probably, especially if we stop allowing poorer immigrants into the country. Republican immigration policies are vote pandering to scared old white people and make little economic sense.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

True, Japan is hard on immigration, too, which is part of their problem.

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

It makes lots of economic sense from a wage perspective and living standards perspective. Why have an increase of crime just to support one generation of old people? Makes no sense. Why give employers an endless market for something that will be over with in 20 years? Makes no sense.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You contradicted yourself in your first two sentences. It increases the living standards of the elderly. If Americans cannot fulfill the economic needs of supporting those who cannot work, then bringing in immigrants who bear the children who can support them is the only choice. Japan is also learning this lesson all to well.

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not the elderly and neither are most Americans. This is creating permanent issues just to get over something that will be over with in 20 years

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why will it be over? People are constantly reaching retirement age.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

The birth rate where I am is 1.4, give or take. I talk a lot about walking away but that's because I'm in probably the most anemic part of north america. The number is as bad compared to Japan as Japan is to the U.S.A. and I've seen what happens when this weird sexual jousting gets out of hand.

Incels and TERPers love talking about some hypothetical sex bots but lets get real by the time it gets to that point it'll already be too late.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

The moment sex robots happen women's power will disappear overnight. It'll never be too late if that invention happens.

[–]wazzoz99[S] 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Realistic sex bots will be like Fusion or true AI, always 50 years away. Theres just to much a of a complex soup of phermones and fleshy feels in human sex, which makes it difficult to replicate it in a sexy robot form. By the time we have realistic Sex bots, we as a species will be far too transfixed on other amazing Technologies thatll enable convincing sex bots like AGI and cyborg tech that can augment human strength to care about Sex robots.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I dunno, provided you have 30 grand to spend on a monotonous quadrupalegic I think you could make something happen. People really don't get how fast some technologies have been growing. Skin textures have gotten crazy. Artificial limbs are scary good and cheap now if not super dextrous. Cameras that can fit in an eye are practically passe. Lord knows battery life has jumped and so has ways to transfer power.

I would go so far as to say we could have something that can consistently wave its arms around and have a vaguely expressive facw on the market in like 5 years. We're probably 10 from something that can walk around. The biggest problem is no longer that the tech doesn't work: it's the man hours needed to produce one. The realistic robots market is still a few small buyers and a few dudes in garages and college labs.

IMO the biggest issue is that most of these things are slender waifs with no room for mechanical parts in them and a weird center of gravity. Something with wider hips and better weight distribution could probably at least kinda walk.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

50 years passes alarmingly fast.

[–]skystar86-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah and I'll be close to dead or dead by then.

[–]md8716RP theorist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I doubt there will be physical sex bots, but more like a Black Mirror-type of VR that taps directly into your brain and gives you the realistic sensations.

I'd certainly prefer that when I'm 80 and I don't need to worry about having a heart attack during sex, or taking pills to get an erection.

[–]Truedemocracy50 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Realistic sex bots could shift the dating game back to men the way dating apps did it for women

[–]drew83110 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This has nothing to do with celibacy and just couples choosing to have less kids.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure it does, it is the consequences of celibacy and just couples choosing to have less kids.

[–]eboy4hire0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's the music. For the life of me I can't understand why all the rappers who talk about having side bitches and baby mommas are the most popular music for people. Imo the lyrics you listen to shape your life.

[–]RicochetChez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Marriage has held steady at the upper 1/3(est) of income earners for men. Men still want to get married. (And if you’re on this sub you should be exclusively fishing in this lake.)

The bottom third cannot support a family in this country(USA) anymore. They probably couldn’t support an out of work or sick spouse either. There is no reason to marry them. They will only drag down the benefits calculations.

[–]meeselbon573-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is why men are realizing they they do not need women. As MGTOW says, “the juice is not worth the squeeze.” Men don’t need to jump through hoops. Men can find meaning and purpose in their lives without women.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19931 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

women are gonna thrive, males are gonna despair til they pull a trigger, hopefully. the "normal", decent guys out there are gonna submit to the female imperative or learn to live alone.

men made women's live unbearable. time to pay. tik tok.

[–]Valandilnarmolanya-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Who hurt you??

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19932 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

my own expectations

[–]ThrowawayCactus60120 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Now with women having the ultimate trump card at their disposal

I wouldn't say it's the ultimate trump card. There are other trump cards which can be played, but most people probably wouldn't want them to be played.

How will society be impacted by women controlling both the sexual and relationship marketplace? How will men respond to the dating game being even more skewed towards women?

How are men responding to it now?

[–]horusporcus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It gets lonely after a bit though, partying and fucking around with random chads is good for a time and then it gets old, you need someone who loves you unconditionally.

I am quite sure that people who remain single don't really understand what they are missing out on.

Op's sisters aren't that old though, it's too early for them.

[–]aypi980 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Our respond is "go your own way".

[–]PanderjitSingh_k0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

To make their decision more legitimate we need to get rid of the welfare state. Without subsidies via forced taxation of men spinsterhood would be impossible for most.

If they can do it without robbing men and without raising broken children it’s fine.

[–]Kos_-_Omak0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Image is everything. Especially in our social media obsessed world. They're not happy, they're just trying really hard to look happy.

The stereotypical "cool wine aunt" is addicted to alcohol and travel because her life is meaningless and unfulfilling. She cries a lot when she's alone. Which is often.

[–]katymarxPurple Pill Woman4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Hey that's me! Except I hardly ever cry. You know when I cried often? When I was in relationships. Being single is good for a woman's mental health.

[–]Kos_-_Omak3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No you just get into shitty relationships because you pick men for the wrong reasons. Don't feel bad though, AWALT.

[–]katymarxPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do have a bad picker that's for sure. Daddy issues AF

[–]DrussIV2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Funny how pretty much every study on this proves you wrong. But then again humans are very good at ignoring reality when it goes against their biases and preconceived perceptions.

[–]skystar861 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why is travel more meaningless than video games or things guys are obsessed with? Most of the men who call women boring and basic are the most boring men around who don't even have interests or passions.

[–]Kos_-_Omak0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's nothing wrong with travelling. I do it as much as possible.

The cringey part is when women try to act like the fact that they have travelled makes them sooooo unique and interesting and cool when it's really one of the most basic and mainstream things you can do.

Everyone travels. Everyone goes to those same places. Wow you got the same picture standing on the hill above macchu picchu, just like every other basic bitch. Wow you played with some baby tigers in thailand just like every other completely interchangeable thot.

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well apparently you found the women that are the exceptions bc all the ones I’ve ever met are sad-ish and heavy about it

OTOH they’ll never admit they’ve made bad choices, it’s a victim mentality

[–]nicethingyoucanthaveRed Pill Male0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can you tell me if I have correctly understood your post? You’re saying these women who have no other choice (the men they like will not commit to them) are just as happy with their situation as they would have been otherwise.

How is that different from an incel saying he’s totes happy that no women will sleep with him?

[–]chomponthebit-4 points-3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This long-winded post was assuredly written by a post-wall woman desperately avoiding coming to terms with her life choices. Hamstering at its worst

[–]Barneysparky8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

People talk about writing styles on here sometimes. How women and men paraphrase differently.

It's hard to believe you think a woman wrote that.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women cannot be concise.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough.

[–]napoleonicmenace-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait til they start nearing 40 and they can't get men anymore and want you around too much in a weird way

[–]HonestyOverCivility-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The modern dynamic benefits (in order): 1. Top 20% of men (Alphas) 2. Women 3. Bottom 80% of men (betas)

Women will almost always benefit regardless of the dynamic because in the sexual market, they’re the hot commodity

In regards to your sisters enjoying spinsterhood, how old are they? If they’re in their low 30’s for example, then of course they are, because their SMVs are still pretty high as is their ability to attract men. However, if your sisters are in their mid 40’s and loving the single life, then that would certainly be an interesting data point. The overarching trend is that women are happy until the attention dwindles, they start feeling “sexually invisible” to men, and their plethora of options turns into scrounging for what few good beta men are left. To make matters worse, most women’s perceptions of their value in the sexual market place are terrible inflated (often confusing sexual value with personal value) which leads to holding out for the man that became out of their league once they hit 27

[–]zayelionMale, Only Attracts Lesbians-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If a woman is miscalculating her SMV, after a while it will auto correct.

[–]Nahgloshi-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You didn't mention children once. This is where they begin fall apart, when their eggs dry up.

[–]theoracleofosiris-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a refreshing relook at the usual RP narrative.

Honestly in my own circle and my own experiences, I don’t see this. I see women desperate to settle down with an alpha.

The smart ones after partying snagged a reliable husband material guy during their prewall years between 26-29.

The ones post 30s prefer the babytrap because it speeds things up.

Might be because the culture here is different and welfare isn’t as generous and single motherhood is still (thankfully) frowned upon here for now.

[–]napoleonicmenace-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also it was designed this way. Women will eventually not care about kids at all because they're highly suggestible and as long as the media pushes this bs then it will continue

https://fightingmonarch.com/2018/07/15/fighting-cias-mk-ultra-and-project-monarch-the-playboy-mansion-blackmail-and-rape/

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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