TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

45

So before we begin, spare me the “what if she says she’s on BC?” Or “what if she wraps her legs around me????” Or “but aznnnn she poured the contents of the condom inside her!!!!!” First of all, don’t nut in her even if she’s on BC and don’t stick your dick in crazy! Also sperm dies after a certain time. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Can we all just agree that both MEN and WOMEN are responsible for unplanned pregnancy? Men- your sperm created the baby. If you didn’t nut inside a woman that baby wouldn’t exist! Ladies- don’t let people who aren’t your husband nut in you. Men are rarely interested in their bastard children. You’re going to be a single mom.

Let’s discuss.


[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew66 points67 points  (67 children) | Copy Link

I can agree men are responsible for pregnancy. I cannot agree they are responsible for babies. The unilateral female option to abort shortcircuits that connection

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

The unilateral female option to abort shortcircuits that connection

Bam.

Also...women take on the lion's share of the risk. A guy might be saddled with payments, but can tap out of actually caring for the little fucker. A woman can't/won't opt out (for the most part....my folks, desperate to adopt at the time, got fucked over by supporting a young woman who decided she wanted to keep her baby after all).

[–]The-Wizard-of-Oz-8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

What lions share of the risk???

If I don't want it, I can just kill it. If it's born and then I I don't want it, I'll put it up for adoption.

Men have NO SAY in this matter. They have to give away their blood earned money for the next 18 years, most of which is wasted and misused.

Get your facts straight dude.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Get your facts straight dude.

My facts are totally straight. Men have been known to become contractors, or even bums, to avoid child support.

Men have NO SAY in this matter.

I've said the same thing at least a dozen times in this thread.

That doesn't mean they take on more risk. More nights flopping out the booby to feed the kid. More wiping of nasty shitty asses. More days wondering if baby daddy leaves them high and dry.

Think of it this way.....if women didn't take on more risk, TRP falls right the fuck apart. A fundamental Red Pill truth is that women are the gatekeepers of sex (while men are the gatekeepers of commitment). Why? Because mothers take on more risk than fathers.

[–]The-Wizard-of-Oz--2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Because they used to. It's remnants of evolutionary psychology. By having sex you won't necessarily become a mother. If you don't want to. THERE IS NO RISK, use your brain.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

use your brain.

Back off on the fucking insults.

It's remnants of evolutionary psychology.

Which is way, way deeper than you, and especially the females here, will accept.

[–]The-Wizard-of-Oz--1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You're the one being insulting. Also, your sentence construction doesn't make sense. As arrogant and presumptuous as you are, I think I catch the drift of you your argument here. I do not dispute the fact that for a woman (for any human basically die to their evolutionary wiring) it seems like the woman is taking a greater risk by having sex. That's why women are considered to be the 'gatekeepers' of sex. However, in reality this is not so. Because at least in most countries you get a choice if you're a female. Even without contraceptives, the chance of getting pregnant isn't 100%, much lower in fact. Also, if the female does not want to have the kid she can simply get an abortion (Honestly, go read up the law- a man has no say in this whatsoever. Thus females have a choice. Sex is not necessarily = relationships. As it once was. Our brains still operate an that basis hence the problem.

Men, on the other hand do not have a choice. Even if a female rapes you or commits paternity fraud the man still has to pay child support. Why is this so? I'm not devaluing all the mothers out there that labour day and night for their kids. I agree that it is mostly women who look after kids, and it is a way bigger duty than most people think and if you haven't done that you have no idea. Nor am I defending men who try to swindle out of child support payment, (which is a rigged system By the way). These are individual cases.

What km trying to get through your thick skull is that females have an unprecedented privilege when it comes to choosing to have children or not. Frankly bc it comes out of them. So if you have a CHOICE. There IS NO RISK.

Period. Telling men to keep it in their pants may seem like good advice, but if you tell a female to keep their legs closed see the reaction you get. This, dear sir/ madam, is a DOUBLE STANDARD.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also, if the female does not want to have the kid she can simply get an abortion (Honestly, go read up the law- a man has no say in this whatsoever.

I've agreed with this repeatedly, unsure why you're banging on it.

Men, on the other hand do not have a choice. Even if a female rapes you or commits paternity fraud the man still has to pay child support.

I've agreed with this repeatedly, unsure why you're banging on it.

As it once was. Our brains still operate an that basis hence the problem.

This is closer to my point, but again, it goes far deeper, IMO. I'm thinking of the past 200,000 years, not the past 20 or 200.

What km trying to get through your thick skull is that females have an unprecedented privilege when it comes to choosing to have children or not. Frankly bc it comes out of them. So if you have a CHOICE. There IS NO RISK.

This just boggles my mind. Pregnancy itself is risky. Childbirth is risky. Childhood is risky. Counting on the father to stay around is risky. Diminishing your RMV by having a child out of wedlock is risky.

I think you're taking a much narrower view of risk than I am.

[–]Talkytalktalk0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

that proves women can't/won't opt out of motherhood?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, for fuck's sake. It's men who can't opt out of fatherhood. Women have the unilateral choice of whether or not to abort.

[–]Talkytalktalk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with that.

[–]HighResolutionSleepMen have always been the primary victims of maternal mortality.0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also...women take on the lion's share of the risk.

True, but this is wholly irrelevant to a just assignment of responsibility.

Risk that is voluntarily suffered is simply categorically different from risk that is involuntarily suffered.

[–]Tomatoccino4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

You’re assuming that access to abortion is universal.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I dont care about other countries I'm talking about the US, like always

[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Access to abortion in America is being wound back by the Christian Right. You know this.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

no it isnt. not one of the new attempted laws has been enforced, they are all blocked. it is unconstitutional to place an undue burden on abortion in the 1st trimester until roe v wade and casey are overturned.

[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Key word here is “until”. Roe v Wade will be overturned; care of a Republican House, Senate and SCOTUS. It’s just a matter of time.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

No I dont think it will

[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You think the Dems will arse pull the numbers to block it?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I dont think conservative justices will actually find new reasoning to overturn 40 year old state decisis to RESTRICT a right. At least not this generation of justice. Robert's would vote with the liberals

Not once has stare decisis been overturned to restrict a right

[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think you’re underestimating the desire of the current administration to make their mark on history.

Removing Roe v Wade will be couched as increasing religious freedom and men’s access to parenthood; rather than winding back women’s rights to autonomy.

RBG won’t live forever.

[–]reluctantly_red1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

The unilateral female option

Life and biology are not always fair. Women get pregnant -- guys don't. Women, like all people, have agency so it follows that while the baby is part of her body its her decision. Guys just need to get over this.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree it's her body her decision. I believe in abortion til 24 months, who are you lecturing

Her body, her choice, her responsibility. Why is that a problem

Where did you see me making an anti abortion argument

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

abortion til 24 months

what's that?

[–]Jotun350 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Drowning.
From boy to buoy.

[–]we-are-men-with-ven0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Yep, and someone has to provide for it. I would rather that burden be on the creator of the baby, rather than the tax payer who had no part in this.

I say take money out of their paycheck (only what he can afford) and welfare can top up the rest. That's what we do in the UK. Men get their paycheck docked (means tested) and welfare supplies the rest (if needed).

[–]alby3331 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm in the uk. My so's sister left the father of her children she was constantly after him for money so he said go through the csa.

Because she was constantly asking him to have the kids overnight and weekends so she could go out it turned out she owed him money.

[–]we-are-men-with-ven0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol, I don't know how she thought it works.

[–]Talkytalktalk0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

should the woman pay half the bill?

[–]we-are-men-with-ven0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

What bill ?

[–]Talkytalktalk0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

fee?

[–]we-are-men-with-ven0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What fee ?

[–]Talkytalktalk0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

the abortion cost, mental null set.

[–]we-are-men-with-ven0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

the abortion cost

Well obviously

mental null set

What?

[–]freejosephk0 points1 point  (21 children) | Copy Link

Is getting an abortion as easy as 1-2-3? Like, is it an easy option?

[–]87AudreyHorne6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would definitely pick having that option over someone else deciding on whether I will have to be responsible for a child or not (even financially, which is no small thing)

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

was for me. who cares if its easy? like how is that relevant?

its a unilateral option in which the man has no say or rights. this unilateral option shortcircuits the old inevitability that pregnany=baby under normal circumstances, circumstances under which we correctly assigned responsibility for BABIES to men

men are responsible for conception, only women are 100% responsible for BABIES

[–]Dash_of_islamBidet 4 Life>Toilet paper unwashed proles5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No I'd say men and women are both responsible for conception since both have ways of preventing it.

Agreed women have the responsibility of pregnancy

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i wasnt saying women were NOT responsible for conception

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas3 points4 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Taken two chicks I knocked up to planned parenthood, cost 30$ after assistance, EZ

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

EZ

Only 'cause they went for it.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

The point is that abortion is easily accessible for most people if they want it

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

The point is that abortion is easily accessible for most people if they want it

ABORTION IS COMPLETELY UP TO THE WOMAN AND UNAVAILABLE TO MEN

Sorry I had to yell, but you have a red flair and should get this.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

You missed my point somehow

Of the women who do want an abortion, it is very easy to access most places. Flyover states are the exception

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Hate to say it, but you're the one missing the point. Sure, women who want an abortion, it is easy for them to get one, in most places. But if she doesn't want one, get ready to be called Daddy.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I’m arguing about abortion access itself , not fairness of the law

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

One more time. Had either of those girls not wanted an abortion, then you would not have access to abortion, and you would be Daddy. Men don't have access to abortion, at least not directly.

[–]Nodoxxintoxin0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Assistance? From who? Just curious.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Idk, we just didn’t have any money and the cost was dropped from like 500 to 30

[–]Nodoxxintoxin1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cool.

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A friend of mine just paid $600 out of pocket. You guys were damn lucky

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

California baby ! And low income 😎

[–]frogsgoribbit7371 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends on where you live. A lot of red states have made it almost impossible and unfortunately, going to a different state is not always an option.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Probably not in all states of the US.

[–]we-are-men-with-ven0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Pregnancy = babies.

In the most literal sense of the word, responcibilty means to be burdened with your actions. Seeing as babies are the burden of pregnancy - to be responcibilty for pregnancy means to be responcibilty for babies.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

pregnancy no longer = babies. pregnancy used to = babies. the unilateral female right to abortion short circuits that

[–]AggravatingTartlet0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

The unilateral female option to abort shortcircuits that connection

It's not an option for all women from their points of view - due to religion, personal ethics, mental illness, young age & mental denial of pregnancy, trauma from rape (mental state), abortion not available where the woman lives etc etc

That shortcircuits your statement.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

None of that removed abortion as an option

[–]AggravatingTartlet-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

None of that removed abortion as an option

It did. Abortion is not like anything else that is remotely comparable.

It's available, but that doesn't mean it's an option for all women. For example, it's only an option for women who believe in abortion. It's not any kind of option for those who don't or for those who change their minds after they become pregnant.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"I dont believe in it" doesn't make it "not an option"

[–]couldbemage2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is like saying Ted Bundy didn't have the option of not murdering people.

Sure, it's true from a certain point of view, but not really applicable here.

[–]AggravatingTartlet-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is like saying Ted Bundy didn't have the option of not murdering people.

Serial killers are very tiny in number. Not really worthy of discussion.

This isn't a great analogy either, but the only thing you could possibly compare it to is euthanasia. If we had the 'option' of euthanizing family members who were old/had terminal illnesses and couldn't speak for themselves (due to dementia/coma etc) - some people might believe it was a good thing but for others it could never be an option due to their beliefs/religion/ethics etc.

So, people could say, 'you should just euthanize your family member' to the second group of people, but it would be pointless, because they would never do it.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

  • Both men and women should not have sex if they can't deal with parenthood in case of unplanned pregnancy.
  • Both men and women have the possibility to opt out of parenthood in case of unplanned pregnancy, thanks to abortion, financial abortion, and adoption.

The only two consistent opinions.

[–]Barely-moralMostly red though20 points21 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Both men and women are responsible for pregnancy.

Only women are responsible for the baby. There is no birth unless the woman wants it. She has a unilateral decision to have an abortion.

[–]frogsgoribbit7375 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That is only true when abortion is accessible to all which it is not right now, especially in the states.

[–]CamoWoobie10000Women are SHIT4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It is accessible to all states, in accordance with roe, those laws in alabama and wherever else are not being enforced or in effect and will almost certainly be struck down before they ever are

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.refinery29.com/amp/en-us/2019/05/232740/georgia-alabama-abortion-law-details

[–]brokegradstudent_930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is one clinic in the state of Mississippi. And they are trying to shut it down. Access to abortion is not ubiquitous. Doctors are required to tell patients untrue “dangers” of abortions for political reasons. So no. Even with roe v wade access is not there for all women. Especially poor women of color in the south

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agree wholeheartedly. If the concept of having a child with a particular person would ruin your life (not be an inconvenience because it’s bad timing, I mean genuinely make you miserable because you can’t stand the other person) then DO NOT SLEEP WITH THEM. Male or female. If they disgust you that much, why are you having sex with them in the first place? There are 3.5 billion people of the opposite sex on this planet. Don’t be desperate.

[–]Truedemocracy512 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hence why I don’t care at all about abortion rights being taken away from women.

[–]DanteLivra2 points3 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

If you say to men : don't fuck if you don't want a child.

I don't understand why we can't say the same thing to women ?

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Because women have options after the fact; men don't.

When men can get pregnant and seek an abortion, you'll have options too!

[–]HighResolutionSleepMen have always been the primary victims of maternal mortality.2 points3 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

When abortion becomes illegal in the US due to the ability to extract a fetus into an artificial environment instead, I trust that you will be principled and accept that women can no longer exercise post-conception autonomy over parenthood and that if they become pregnant, they may be able to terminate their pregnancy, but they're gonna be mommies whether they like it or not.

I am completely confident that you are principled on this issue.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy Link

I think most women would be quite happy about this. I had an unwanted pregnancy once, and if I had had the option to simply transfer the embryo to a willing recipient, I would have jumped at that chance!

[–]HighResolutionSleepMen have always been the primary victims of maternal mortality.1 point2 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Oh, I wasn't suggesting it as an option. I was insisting that, for the sake of principled fairness, women's only choice for ending an unwanted pregnancy will be one that does not offer freedom from unwanted parenthood.

I hear it insisted all the time that ending the life of the fetus is a wholly accidental and irrelevant side effect of a procedure whose sole intent is to end a particular medical state within an individual woman. Therefore, objections about men's lack of reproductive autonomy in this regard are void.

We'll ignore for a moment the two glaring issues with this reasoning that its proponents don't even attempt to address: the fact that polls clearly show that isn't the case, and that personal reproductive (not bodily) autonomy is the overwhelming reason that women seek abortions; as well as the fact that in any other context of adjudicating power and responsibility—when we aren't talking about specifically women's possession of it—the fact that any given power may be "accidental" to another is never considered a relevant detail when assigning accountability for its possession.

Looking past these otherwise critical flaws, proponents of this reasoning should have absolutely no objection whotsoever to women losing abortion rights (of the kind that enable planned parenthood) so long as other avenues of pregnancy termination exist.

But they often do, and they've never done me the service of explaining why.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

I think it would be a great thing! I can't imagine a woman who wouldn't want her fetus to survive, somehow. Often when women seek abortions it's not because they wouldn't love to have a baby under different (better) circumstances. Poor women may be precariously employed, and a pregnancy puts them in a really financially precarious position. Think about it; when was the last time you saw an eight-months-pregnant cashier or foodservice worker? That's probably because it's very difficult to do manual labor jobs in an advanced state of pregnancy. But taking two or three months off work, especially when you're barely managing to keep the rent paid as it is, can be a daunting prospect and can drive women to seek an abortion, especially if they already have kids to protect.

Allowing a woman in this situation to transfer the embryo to a recipient would be a godsend.

[–]HighResolutionSleepMen have always been the primary victims of maternal mortality.0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

I can't imagine a woman who wouldn't want her fetus to survive, somehow.

Well, unfortunately that's not what the stats say. Most women who procure an abortion report that they did so precisely because they didn't want the fetus to survive.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

Source? Because that doesn't square with the research I've seen ... for instance, https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/journals/3711005.pdf or https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3729671/

Most studies seem to conclude that women's reasons are generally complex.

[–]HighResolutionSleepMen have always been the primary victims of maternal mortality.1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Did you take the time to even look at the results? Virtually all of the most common reasons are all motivations that would not be served if the fetus wasn't terminated.

In fact, the only item on here that I can see that is unrelated to the status of the fetus is "Concern for her own health", clocking in at a whopping 6%—and keep in mind that this is multiple choice. Literally everything else is related to not wanting a baby, at least not right then. If these findings are to be believed, they suggest that the overwhelming majority of the time, abortion has actually nothing to do with pregnancy itself and everything to do with reproductive autonomy.

Thanks for providing my evidence for me, I guess.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

Did you take the time to even look at the results? Virtually all of the most common reasons are all motivations that would not be served if the fetus wasn't terminated.

Wha...? Because I'm not seeing what you're seeing. From the Guttmacher study: "The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman’s education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%)." None of these problems require the annihilation of the fetus; it's simply inconvenient for the woman to be pregnant.

I suspect rape victims might want to see the fetus destroyed as it contains the genetic material of their attacker, but outside of that, I don't think many women bear their unborn child ill will. As I said earlier, the ability to give it to someone else, without enduring 9 months of discomfort and possible financial jeopardy, would be a godsend! In fact, given the millions of dollars that have been contributed to the anti-choice movement in this country, I'm surprised that option hasn't been developed. I work on a dairy farm; we can transfer embryos among cattle. It's not even that expensive! Why not humans?!

[–]ShitArchonXPRFurfag autist|Too misogynist for BP|Too socially liberal for RP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wonder if this principle would actually solve the Carol problem. What about men who are scumbag fathers but she still wants to duplicate his genes?

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me9 points10 points  (47 children) | Copy Link

This guy said it good

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/cr0of4/rp_ignores_science_when_they_say_women_trap_men/ex168vn?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

Below is all quoted:

http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/shavell/pdf/07-Shavell-Liability%20for%20Accidents-Hdbk%20of%20LE.pdf

The party in a superior position to prevent harm is “strictly liable,” otherwise, a rule of “negligence” is appropriate.

The answer to your original question is “no.” You place a sperm into an environment with an egg. If only the woman does not want a human baby to fully develop, she singlehandedly has the power to safely terminate any such unwanted pregnancy that will otherwise (through her inaction) result in the birth of a human baby.

The woman is in the superior position to control the harm (unwanted pregnancy being carried to term, and resulting child support liability).

Family law is the only area of law where a party in a superior position to prevent harm is not assigned strict liability.

Why? Because we romanticize “the family,” “women,” and “children.” There is literally no limit to the legal gymnastics judges will engage in to find liability against the party in the inferior position to stop an unwanted pregnancy from developing to term. See, https://chicagoist.com/2005/02/24/semen_is_a_gift_not_a_loan.php (a gift requires donative “intent,” not merely “delivery” and “acceptance” ... basic property law ... and just like art, intent can be a conveyance of the full bundle of property rights, or a very limited property right, such as mere possession, but not use or ownership).

Scientifically, will a safe medical procedure terminating further development of a fertilized pre-zygote result in a human baby being born?

Note: Answer that, or else your opinion is invalid.

Is a woman not in a superior position (when compared to a man) to undergo a safe medical procedure to terminate a truly unwanted pregnancy from developing any further?

Note: Answer that, or else your opinion is invalid.

So, according to every other way that our laws are structured with respect to assigning responsibility and liability to the party who is in a superior position to prevent the ultimate harm from occurring, RP is 100% absolutely correct that women seek to “trap” men with “pregnancy,” because women know that:

  • once they have a man’s sperm, it’s game over, he can’t do shit (even if it wasn’t obtained through consensual sexual intercourse between adults);
  • even though she has the sole power to safely terminate an “unwanted” outcome, she knows ahead of time that she will choose to not do so.

https://www.babygaga.com/14-confessions-from-women-who-got-pregnant-to-trap-their-boyfriends/

https://www.salon.com/1998/09/23/cov_23feature_3/

https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/07/dear-prudie-i-tricked-my-boyfriend-into-getting-me-pregnant.html

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (46 children) | Copy Link

Pure strict liability in civil law applies almost nowhere, IME. Even in states which still have a cause of action called “strict liability”. Almost always a negligence standard or some sort of negligence factor is applied. I wish it still did, would make my job a lot easier lol.

Edit: IIRC, it might still apply to unreasonably dangerous activities? I cannot remember. I suppose you could argue like the Jones Act negligence standard is akin to it, but that's a federal act.

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me0 points1 point  (45 children) | Copy Link

Interesting. Makes sense. Things are rarely simple. Still, it seems to me the man's involvement wouldn't be 'primary', if that translates into legal-speak. He has no mitigating actions he can take while the lady has at least one. I am not a lawyer and don't play one on TV.

Pinging the original writer that was quoted, in case there is anything useful to add.

u/pnadlerlaw

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (40 children) | Copy Link

Family law applies a completely different standard so I'm not sure it's exactly compatible but maybe u/pnadlerlaw has a different take.

Family law doesn't (at least on paper) seek to "punish" anyone or "make one whole" (like criminal and civil law would, save "compensatory alimony" I suppose, which is very rare). The standard looked to for matters involving kids (and the principle behind child support I think too) is the "best interests of the child".

But I do see what you're saying. Technically his "mitigating action" is to protect himself from conception but obviously in cases of stolen sperm, rape, etc., the circumstances are not that clear cut.

Edit: also I have seen at least one case you are referencing about stolen sperm being "a gift" which is absolutely ludicrous on it's face although I did not read the opinion and the law it relies upon so I cannot say whether the law is, at least, sound.

[–]pnadlerlaw2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

stolen sperm being "a gift" which is absolutely ludicrous on it's face

on it's face

Hehehe 😊

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol you went there didn’t you

[–]pnadlerlaw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Justice Kavanagh writing the majority opinion for the Court:

“Oh baby, I’m about to transfer possession onto your face. Are you ready to accept my gift? Oh fuck, I can feel my donative intent!”

These were the thoughts clearly going through the man’s mind prior to the making of his gift in contemplation of a normal and regular property transaction.

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me2 points3 points  (36 children) | Copy Link

"punish" anyone

Regardless of the goal it seems to have that effect. End of the day, the issues are more with politics than pure legal soundness. The law can be reworked so the woman, informed in a timely manner, knows she will get no help from the man. Detailed implementation figured later.

Remove the incentive for bad behavior and the problem will be reduced. No worse than what happens now, at least.

On some level, this problem affects every couple.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (35 children) | Copy Link

Regardless of the goal it seems to have that effect.

You could say this about any case in which one party wins. The law seeks to balance people's rights but when you have two people whose rights are adverse, there's not really another option, someone wins, someone loses, or you settle. And even if you do settle that does not mean everyone is super duper happy with the result.

I have done a post about LPS and I don't think post-sex opt outs/ins are fair to women, but I offer an alternative that I think is fair because it places some responsibility on both parties. It also eliminates the possibility of tricking someone else, where as a post-sex opt out doesn't.

No worse than what happens now, at least.

Right, I think it just switches the burden too far in the other direction. Hence why I think the pre-sex waiver is a better option.

But we are sort of getting off track I guess.

[–]pnadlerlaw2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

The conclusion of my thesis was a simple reversion back to the contractual theory of third-party beneficiary law.

Before the “moral obligation doctrine on the 1500s, “parental status” was determined by written agreement. It was a promise that by its very terms could not be “completed” within one year. So, the statute of frauds applied, and that agreement needed to be “in writing.”

That’s promise was a part of the “marital contract,” which among other things, included the promise to provide for the care and support of all “children of the marriage.”

Reversion would occur automatically upon the Supreme Court holding that state law creating parental status upon nothing more than the results of a generic market test ... is unconstitutional.

When that piece of state law is without legal effect, what is the basis for parental status, and therefore, child support liability? There is none! Except, by agreement (including adoption), by estoppel, or by the “marital presumption.”

The effect of this would be identical to assigning strict liability to product manufacturers ... except, product manufacturers have zero ability to “undo an accident,” or simply “turn over a liability onto the welcoming arms of the state.”

Practical effect?

Man and woman are about to engage in sex ...

Woman: “I’m sorry, I’m just afraid of getting pregnant.”

Man: “Well, I couldn’t give less of a fuck, especially not now.”

Woman: “I understand, but can you at least please use a condom?”

Man: “I’m sorry, condoms are against my religious beliefs.”

Woman: “What kind of religion is that?”

Man: “Rawdogism.”

Woman: “Look, if you don’t put on a condom, then I’m not going to have voluntary and consensual sexual intercourse with you.”

Man: “Well, I’m not going to rape you. But, if you insist on having sex only with a condom, then, I guess that means you and I are not going to have voluntary consensual sex.”

...

Result?

Either the man and woman don’t have sex, in which case, no risk of pregnancy.

Or, the man and woman have voluntary and consensual sex without a condom.

Result on the market for sex? Men will have less sex. Men who have issues with using condoms will REALLY have less sex.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

There’s some scotus precedent to suggest parental rights are fundamental rights and thus have a constitutional basis. I don’t think it’s 100% settled but that seems like you’d have to reverse those as step one or at least settle the issue that they are not.

What do you mean the state law is based on nothing more than a “generic market test”?

[–]pnadlerlaw2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

That parental rights are a fundamental right is at the core of family law and the right to privacy under the Fourteenth Amendment. Otherwise, the “state” not “individuals” would define what a “family” is and is not. That doesn’t need to be invalidated or chipped away.

https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/family-court-act/fct-sect-532.html

“If the record or report of the results of any such genetic marker or DNA test or tests indicate at least a ninety-five percent probability of paternity, the admission of such record or report shall create a rebuttable presumption of paternity, and shall establish, if unrebutted, the paternity of and liability for the support of a child pursuant to this article and article four of this act.”

That’s the operative state law that we call the “biological affinity” basis of parental status and child support liability. Basically, strict liability for semen and having an orgasm as a man.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Right....so again those opinions would need to be overturned or the issue settled that they are not constitutional in nature for your plan to occur -yes?

You meant genetic marker, I see. I read that initially as generic.

Also meant to tell you earlier that products is my wheelhouse and pure strict liability doesn’t really exist there anymore that I’ve seen and I’ve practiced it all over.

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

I agree Post-Sex is not the way to go. Women should have all the info they need beforehand.

pre-sex waiver

I would favor instead a pre-sex Permission form whereby the guy opts-in to paying child support rather than an Opt-Out. Sort of mirrors the marriage framework of opt-in alimony. Remove the assumption that child support is an automatic that just happens without intervention.

But yes, we are far into the weeds. Policy debates are not legal debates.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Well that gets into the whole fairness debate because it places the responsibility to secure a right he wants or doesn't want on the woman, rather than the man. Getting out of child support is a right men say they want and this would provide it to them, it would just require them to obtain it.

I do see the argument, I just think it goes too far in the other direction and since men say they want this for "equality" and "fairness" that is why I think this way is better, personally.

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

My way makes more sense to me, but I also don't see a huge practical difference.

If your way was on the negotiating table, I'd take it. I don't need ideological purity if the situation is improved.

Edit : Your way has a weird 'stolen sperm' problem in the cases where the man can't prove the sperm was stolen. A contrived example is the Twin Sister Switcharoo.

Edit 2 : Also possibly a timing problem, where the fetus is conceived a day prior to the Opt-Out form. Is that child covered or excluded by that form? Can the timing be proven?

Edit 3: Probably there are analogous problems in my Opt-In method. Mostly resembling the 'Stopped BC Oopsie Child' scenario.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough.

Edit : Your way has a weird 'stolen sperm' problem in the cases where the man can't prove the sperm was stolen.

How so? If he got her to sign the waiver who cares if she stole it - she’s on her own? I guess the reverse of this is, now (and under any LPS system) if a man “stealths” a woman she’s on her own to take responsibility for the unwanted child (ie, abortion, or bringing the child to term, birthing it and either keeping it and being responsible financially or giving it away)

Idk what you mean by the twin switcharoo.

Edit 2 : Also possibly a timing problem, where the fetus is conceived a day prior to the Opt-Out form. Is that child covered or excluded by that form?

All of your edits have to do with the technical details lol. If the form was not retroactive or did not cover the time of conception it would not be valid, most likely, we’d apply contract law I suppose. But if the woman didn’t care than she wouldn’t contest it either in most cases.

Obviously in the case of marriage or long term relationships there would be some waiver that operated for a period of time so it wouldn’t have to be each and every time sex was had.

[–]pnadlerlaw2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

“Getting out of child support liability is a right men want.”

Not exactly. Men just want women to realize that they are not entitled to a man’s financial support over her decision to be a mother.

Men don’t want the right to not be liable. They just don’t want to be liable for things they never consented and agreed to be liable for.

That’s like men saying, “Can you believe women? Now they want the right to have an abortion without first securing a waiver or written consent from their husband or the biological father! I tell you, feminism has gone too far. Soon, they’re going to want the right to go outside of the house without their husband, or to spend money without their man’s permission or written waiver.”

The solution is not to assign men with liability first, and then, tell men, “Okay, this is what you have to do and the hoops you need to jump through so that the woman is no longer entitled to your financial support for her child.”

My life, my wallet, my choice. We had sex. You used my sperm to create a baby. You chose to not have unprotected sex. You chose to not use birth control. You chose to not use Plan B. You chose to not safely terminate an early term pregnancy and let the pregnancy develop to term. You chose to not leave a resulting child to a safe haven. I didn’t choose any of that. Those were your choices. You wanted to be a mother, God bless you. I’m happy for you. But don’t make your choices and aspirations of motherhood my financial problem.

If you can’t afford it on your own, guess what, you’re not gonna have it. You’re not going to pollute the demand curve for housing, goods and services, and the supply curve for labor with an artificially higher head count ... courtesy of my wallet. I’ll tell you how quickly women think twice about being a mother and engaging in risky sex when they know it will result in a child they can’t afford, will have to abort or turn over to a safe haven.

In economic terms, it “internalizes” the “externalities” onto the ultimate decision maker. It gets the polluter to pay the price of pollution, and think twice before creating another coal power plant.

Want to create a coal power plant but can’t afford to do so on your own? Then, better secure a man’s written promise to subsidize your decision “before” you break ground.

I’m sorry to be so crass about it, but that’s the reality of things. We don’t know how the child was conceived. But we can easily know with certainty whether a person consented to and agreed to be financially responsible for any resulting children.

Why would one portion of the population continue to insist on leaving the door open for cases of male rape and sperm theft, fraud and misrepresentation of infertility, when all the other side is asking for is to be responsible and accountable for financial liability it has actually consented and agreed to undertake, but not for those it has not agreed to undertake?

Sex and parental status/liability is not a package deal for women. The only thing that makes it a package deal for men is the law. All men are saying is, make it the same for both men and women. If it’s not a package deal for women, then it shouldn’t be a package deal for men either. (Don’t insist on maintaining the law that creates this inequality in the first place, and then drafting “exceptions” to it. Just get rid of the law that creates the inequality).

Just like women, men should be able to engage in sex without state law necessarily forcing men to also simultaneously consent to and agree to parental status and financial liability for consequences he has no ability to unilaterally terminate once they occur.

The question really boils down to, why do women feel like they are entitled to have a man subsidize her decision to ultimately be a mother and create a parent-child relationship with a pregnancy she decides to carry to term or child she decides to have not turn over to a safe haven?

What’s the basis? Because he had sex? Therefore? He consented to sex, not to creating a parental relationship or financial liability. You can enjoy and engage in sex without any risk of that undesired legal burden. Why should it be any different for a man? Why do you think a man can only engage in sex so long as he accepts being liable for the woman’s ultimate decisions with respect to a child?

Genuinely, I’d love to hear from a feminist on these points.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Not exactly. Men just want women to realize that they are not entitled to a man’s financial support over her decision to be a mother.

That’s what it seems to me. Neither parent has some right to get out of financially supporting a child who exists but for things like adoption or I guess if the state takes the kid away. Men want the ability to “financially abort” - I don’t think it’s too much to ask to place some responsibility upon them given that the conception of a child is both parties decision. LPS in the form of a presex waiver provides this and IMO is just better policy, particularly if “fairness” is concerned.

Moreover, it’s not just “women’s entitlement to a man’s financial support” - it’s also the child’s entitlement.

But since you’ve phrased it the way you have - look at it this way - women would also want the right to know beforehand whether the man won’t be responsible (or “liable” as you’ve put it) for the decisions they both make in conceiving a child. Or maybe, women don’t want to be “liable” for a man’s entitlement to decide after the fact whether he will be responsible for the conception of a child. Idk something like that, I’m trying to get you to see the other side of things here.

The question really boils down to, why do women feel like they are entitled to have a man subsidize her decision to ultimately be a mother and create a parent-child relationship with a pregnancy she decides to carry to term or child she decides to have not turn over to a safe haven?

The converse would be something like: why do men feel they are entitled to have sex without incurring any responsibility for the conception that may follow?

What’s the basis? Because he had sex? Therefore? He consented to sex, not to creating a parental relationship or financial liability. You can enjoy and engage in sex without any risk of that undesired legal burden. Why should it be any different for a man? Why do you think a man can only engage in sex so long as he accepts being liable for the woman’s ultimate decisions with respect to a child?

You know the basis lol - it’s the state’s interests in the idea that both parents should be responsible for the support of the child.

But regardless, I still think a pre sex waiver system gives men what they want while not putting the entire burden of the sex two people have on one of them. So I see it as a win win.

[–]pnadlerlaw0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

My reply would simply be ...

“So before we begin here, spare me the whole ... every single child support case or paternity petition involves a man willfully ejaculating inside a woman’s vagina while having unprotected sex.”

So, that’s really the end of that female criticism. The entire rant argument goes out the window.

This isn’t our first dance. The next go-to is, “Yeah, okay, fine, but how often does that happen?”

Response?

When the Supreme Court considered cases of very young girls “mature” enough to make a decision with respect to abortion, but where state law “required” the written consent of either their parent or the biological father, the state’s argument was exactly this: “How often does this occur? This is a one in a million case. For the overwhelming majority of the time, the general rule works. The law is not going to change because of one rare exceptional case.”

As Justice Sandra Day O’Connor noted in oral argument, “If just one and only one American woman was negatively affected by such a law, such that only her fundamental right to liberty and privacy under the Fourteenth Amendment was violated, would you say that such a law is or is not unconstitutional?”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12278191/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2029941/

All it takes is for one man’s fundamental rights under the Fourteenth Amendment to be violated, and whatever law is creating that violation is the law that’s unconstitutional. The law is “over-broad” by definition if the result of its application to every single person would result in even a single violation of a single individual’s fundamental right to liberty and privacy under the Fourteenth Amendment.

Here is the indefensible position women need to argue in defense of state law which creates parental status (and therefore, liability) based solely on the results of a generic marker test, and nothing else:

(a) if a man doesn’t want to be a father, then he shouldn’t masturbate;

(b) if a man doesn’t want to be a father, then he shouldn’t receive a handjob;

(c) if a man doesn’t want to be a father, then he shouldn’t receive a blowjob;

(d) if a man doesn’t want to be a father, then he shouldn’t have anal sex;

(e) if a man doesn’t want to be a father, then he shouldn’t have sexual intercourse while wearing a condom;

(f) if a man doesn’t want to be a father, then he shouldn’t ejaculate while he’s asleep or unconscious;

(g) a woman can engage in all these activities without ever risking becoming a parent without her consent or ultimate decision ... but a man can only engage in these activities if he also accepts the state-imposed status of “parent” in the event the woman decides she wants to be a mother to any resulting child.

Feminist in the background: “You may not like it, but this is what peak equality looks like.”

See also: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/cr0of4/rp_ignores_science_when_they_say_women_trap_men/ex168vn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

Specifically: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/cr0of4/rp_ignores_science_when_they_say_women_trap_men/ex50pxt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

The entire basis of the moral obligation doctrine, later codified in the Elizabethan Poor Laws of 1601 and then making its way into the American law of child support and paternity was:

  • if a man “forced” her into motherhood, she could not simply leave a child at a “safe haven.” If the church could not help her, she would either have to find a way to support the child or go to jail for murder (if she killed her child).
  • an unwed woman with child was destined to a life of “destitution,” because women could not work, and would most likely become a beggar or prostitute.
  • the woman had no escape from motherhood (no such thing as abortion or plan b in the 1500s). So if the man “caused” her motherhood by causing her to become pregnant, it was only equitable and fair that he should be liable for the support of the resulting child.

ALL THREE of the justifications for the “moral obligation doctrine” are no longer applicable today. So, the law is clearly outdated in this area.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

“So before we begin here, spare me the whole ... every single child support case or paternity petition involves a man willfully ejaculating inside a woman’s vagina while having unprotected sex.”

My question is what happens if sex was protected, but the protection has failed?

However, I see (e).

When the Supreme Court considered cases of very young girls “mature” enough to make a decision with respect to abortion, but where state law “required” the written consent of either their parent or the biological father, the state’s argument was exactly this: “How often does this occur? This is a one in a million case. For the overwhelming majority of the time, the general rule works. The law is not going to change because of one rare exceptional case.”

The Supreme Court argued that the consent of parents is not required?

(f) if a man doesn’t want to be a father, then he shouldn’t ejaculate while he’s asleep or unconscious;

This is the best.

[–]pnadlerlaw0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The Supreme Court argued that the consent of parents is not required?

The standard was “undue burden.” A judge had to determine whether a girl between 13-16 was “mature enough” to make the decision to have an abortion without her parent’s consent.

The plaintiff argued, if she had to obtain her parent’s consent, the process of obtaining a judge’s highly subjective determination as to whether she was “mature enough” essentially deprived her of her ability to exercise her fundamental right by placing an “undue burden” on her ability to do so.

The state argued, basically, “C’mon, how often and likely is a 14 year old girl (in this case) going to be mature enough to be able to make such a decision? You want to invalidate a law that applies to 99.999999% of cases, because this one girl is saying that she is mature enough to make this decision without her having to obtain the consent of her parent, which would place an undue burden on her exercising her fundamental rights?”

During oral argument, O’Connor asked a test question to challenge that argument. If just one girl would be deprived of her fundamental rights, would the law still be constitutionally valid? That question was the nail on the coffin of the state’s defense.

On this topic, people usually say, “C’mon, most births occur through sexual intercourse, penis vagina sex, between two consenting adults. You want to make a law unconstitutional because a few women steal sperm and artificially inseminate themselves, or rape men forcibly or statutorily?”

Yes. The Legislature has the power to draft a law that is not constitutionally over-broad.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If just one girl would be deprived of her fundamental rights, would the law still be constitutionally valid?

Yes, I know that the constitution says it applies equally to all citizens.

people usually say, “C’mon, most births occur through sexual intercourse, penis vagina sex, between two consenting adults. You want to make a law unconstitutional because a few women steal sperm and artificially inseminate themselves, or rape men forcibly or statutorily?”

I am keeping saying that if a man used contraception (and even if a woman has deliberately lied about being on pills or something), he does not have to pay for child support as he is not giving concept for impregnation and let alone child support.

[–]thlaungks2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The premise of your post is that the people having sex both understand and consent to the activity. Men having sex with underage girls is rape. It is wrong. But it does happen, and it does produce children.

Your post seems to place a large emphasis on males controlling where their sperm goes. But, what if the person doing the nutting is too young to understand the consequences of their actions, while the person being knocked up fully understands what's going on?

USA Today Article

Women having sex with underage boys is just as wrong as men having sex with underage girls. Rape is rape.

In the pregnancy, birth, and rasing of a child, women face pretty much all of the biological and medical consequences. As a result, in many jurisdictions, the decision of abortion unilaterally rests with the woman.

Meanwhile, the financial consequences are split between the parents. If you try running away from these consequences, the government will catch up to you, and force you to pay for the care of the child. In most of the developed world, a man cannot legally compulse a woman to have an abortion. More than that, there appears to be a legal precedent in the United States for males who were raped to have to pay child support to their rapist. (see article above)

So, with that in mind. You could have a male who does not want to have sex no matter what, does not want to have a child no matter what. But is forced to have sex, and then is legally required to pay his rapist to support a child he never wanted.

In this case, the person didn't want a child. He didn't want to knock up that woman. He shouldn't have busted a nut inside that women. And yet, following the steps prescribed by your post didn't help him.

[–]nemma8831/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't really care as long as people are consistent. Either you believe in personal responsibility to a reasonable extent (and yes, taking your own birth control methods is a very reasonable extent) or you believe in that strict liability bullshit that only the one with the most power must take 100% of the responsibility.

I believe in personal responsibility.

[–]spletharg2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a guy and I agree with the OP. If you're a guy, you have no right to complain about a woman getting pregnant if you had intercourse with her. Even if married. And there are alternatives to intercourse. Of course this would only apply to couples who didn't want progeny.

[–]GridReXXit be like that14 points15 points  (116 children) | Copy Link

Men want the same unilateral choice women have here at each juncture of potential conception — before, during, post.

But men don’t have vaginas. Don’t get periods. Don’t get menstrual cramps. Don’t get ovulation cramps. Don’t get yeast infections. Don’t have to worry about their PH balance being disrupted just because they had sex with their SO/any penis. Don’t get pregnant. Don’t have their bodies altered internally and externally as a result of pregnancy. Don’t have to take hormonal and physiologically altering birth control yet are usually the ones pestering for sex, raw sex, finishing in her baby-making type of sex. Don’t expend as much effort caretaking and raising the child as the mother even when he wants a baby. And so forth.

They have the choices.

“Women want all of the privileges but none of the responsibilities/damage/burdens/consequences.”

Suddenly this menimist rallying cry sounds a bit... something.

[–]geyges🐇10 points11 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

So because women's junk requires less more maintenance, men's arguments are null and void?

How about we stop fucking around like animals, and recognize that putting penis in a vagina carries inherent risks. And if you're not willing to take that risk then don't put the penis in a vagina.

There, I solved all sex problems forever and ever.

[–]GridReXXit be like that8 points9 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

This isn’t about men’s arguments being “null and void.”

That was me describing women’s bodies and burdens here. Feel free to extol men’s issues. This a public forum.

[–]geyges🐇5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I care about men's issues even less than I care about women's issues. I think OP is correct here that both parties are responsible. And the fact that women undergo more hardship because of pregnancy or vagina ph levels or whatever, doesn't really dismiss the idea that if you're not willing to knock someone up, don't have sex with them.

[–]GridReXXit be like that3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Quote where I said that women should have sex if they don’t want a baby?

If you don’t want the potential of a kid be abstinent. Or don’t have baby-making sexual intimacy.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you, but “Men shouldn’t fuck women unless they’re prepared to marry her and have children with her” isn’t terribly popular.

[–]geyges🐇0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

lol grid, if you're not arguing with op, then your whole post is completely offtopic.

[–]GridReXXit be like that4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This isn’t a CMV. It’s a discussion flair. I’ve said what I had to say.

[–]geyges🐇-5 points-4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Can I report you to you, for not posting under automod?

[–]GridReXXit be like that5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You can? But my post is relevant to the discussion at hand even if for whatever reason you think it isn’t. So it’ll be ignored.

[–]oneprettycoolcat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, hence why abortion and birth control should be made illegal. If you don't want to risk pregnancy, don't have sex.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew13 points14 points  (43 children) | Copy Link

Men want the same unilateral choice women have here at each juncture of potential conception — before, during, post.

But men don’t have vaginas. Don’t get periods. Don’t get menstrual cramps. Don’t get ovulation cramps. Don’t get yeast infections. Don’t have to worry about their PH balance being disrupted just because they had sex with their SO/any penis. Don’t get pregnant. Don’t have their bodies altered internally and externally as a result of pregnancy. Don’t have to take hormonal and physiologically altering birth control yet are usually the ones pestering for sex, raw sex, finishing in her baby-making type of sex. Don’t expend as much effort caretaking and raising the child as the mother even when he wants a baby. And so forth.

whats the logical connection between men having the choice to pay and the vaginal woes you described?

[–]i_cri_evry_tim10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

whats the logical connection between men having the choice to pay and the vaginal woes you described?

The logical connection is:

“I have been taught all my life that if I bitch and moan about something I will get my way, regardless of how irrational my stance is”.

[–]GridReXXit be like that2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What’s “irrational”?

What prescriptive stance have I taken?

Your response is interesting and emotional.

[–]i_cri_evry_tim5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What’s “irrational”?

The notion that your biological conditions have any bearing on the justification of moral or legal obligations of somebody else

Your response is interesting and emotional.

I wish I could say yours was interesting at any rate.

[–]GridReXXit be like that4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That isn’t a notion I suggested.

Interesting means different things to different people.

[–]GridReXXit be like that3 points4 points  (35 children) | Copy Link

I’m explaining that none of this is equal and some insight into things men probably don’t think about. Men cannot pay if they choose not to. Their choice.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But that's the thing. Many times men don't have the choice to not pay. Many men are legally required to pay or go to jail.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Maybe then feminists should stop pushing equality propaganda, if it's impossible?

[–]whichbladeNA Paler Shade of Purple4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This is definitely one of those scenarios where men and women are different.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

True. However, I think men and women are more different than radfems think we are.

[–]whichbladeNA Paler Shade of Purple1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed.

But it's still worth looking at the social differences with a critical eye.

[–]we-are-men-with-ven0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Who cares what radfems think

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

As long as they are affecting political environment, everyone should.

[–]we-are-men-with-ven0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Idk bro. Ask a “feminist.”

[–]------__-------------2 points-1 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Victim mode activate!

[–]GridReXXit be like that5 points6 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

Oh brother.

[–]------__-------------1 points0 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Tell me how im wrong ;-)

and for what its worth women dont get testicular torsion or get their genitals stuck in their pants zip or sit on themselves or get prostate problems and they live like 5-10 years longer

[–]GridReXXit be like that6 points7 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

None of that has to do with sex or involves a woman.

Most everything I listed benefits a man. Especially the yeast infection bit. It’s likely his semen that triggered it. Or the friction penetrating her caused.

[–]ArcheryDude1014 points5 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

If the woman didn't want a yeast infection, she could have chosen not to have sex unprotected.

[–]GridReXXit be like that4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Sure. Tell that to married women and men. Most married men don’t enjoy a lifetime of condom sex.

I can tell everyone here is young because your only conception is “19 year old hook up culture.”

[–]ArcheryDude1012 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

So it's the man's fault for a woman choosing not to use a condom? Her body, her rules. If she doesn't like the negative effects of sex, she doesn't have to have sex with him.

[–]frogsgoribbit737-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Condoms can give you yeast infections.

[–]ArcheryDude1013 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Condoms actually reduce the chance of yeast infections. It's up to her to stand up for her own body autonomy/health. If she has an issue with unprotected sex, she should make it known, and the guy should acknowledge and move forward with that in mind. It's not rocket science.

https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/yeast-infection-after-sex

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Most everything I listed benefits a man.

Of course. Because that list was made by you specifically to show things which seemingly put men into advantage.

[–]GridReXXit be like that2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men have their disadvantages. It’s. Not. There.

Sorry this unnerves you as you keep replying to me.

[–]------__------------2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

thats dumb as hell, its like volunteering to give someone a lift and then blaming them when you get a puncture

[–]frogsgoribbit7375 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Women can get ovarian torsion which men always seem to forget happens. We have three organs that you don't that can all get cancer so the prostate bit is bullshit. Prolapse is a thing for multiple women, look that up, it's fun.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

None. As if women had no agency and yeast infections justify poor decision-making.

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not the point.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol classic case of solipsism

[–]wingbarkplacid not flaccid when im kissin’ on a bitch4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Men want to choose whether or not to finance a child’s care, they don’t care what a woman wants to do with her body or her time

[–]GridReXXit be like that4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course he does.

[–]NewSpekt1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Woman choose whether or not to keep or abort the child, they don't care what a man wants to do with his child or his finances.

[–]wingbarkplacid not flaccid when im kissin’ on a bitch2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If they want CS, they do

[–]87AudreyHorne3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

But men don’t have vaginas.

They have penises - your point?

Don’t get periods. Don’t get menstrual cramps. Don’t get ovulation cramps.

Neither do all women suffer and experience a big inconvenience tied to our periods. But men get erections, have their balls vulnerably hanging out, orgasm by creating a mess and cant have multiple orgasms. Anyway who cares and how does it relate to this topic?

Don’t get yeast infections. Don’t have to worry about their PH balance being disrupted just because they had sex with their SO/any penis.

What?

Don’t get pregnant. Don’t have their bodies altered internally and externally as a result of pregnancy.

That is a choice.

Don’t have to take hormonal and physiologically altering birth control yet are usually the ones pestering for sex, raw sex, finishing in her baby-making type of sex.

Again that is a choice, as are the men you date.

[–]GridReXXit be like that3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Lolllll

Men have regular orgasms. Most women don’t orgasm Ever. A very small percentage who do have multiple orgasms.

Comparing most men to a slither of a subset of women or a tiny moment women experience rarely is 1/10.

Comparing the woes of pleasure to blood and pain/bloat/discomfort is also a bit of an unrelatable comparison.

[–]87AudreyHorne3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Periods arent nearly as big of a deal as overly exaggerated online victim Olympics make It seem. Of course some do have a hard time (and usually those fix it with some bc or whatever) but most women are generally ok throughout the month.

As for orgasms, clitoral stimulation wont fail you. It's sad if so many women never even masturbated but all I can say is again, their choice. Techincially we are able to masturbate almost wherever we want and as many times as we feel like it. Just go to the restroom and no one will know. Beats dealing with visible erections, sperm mess, and quantity limitations.

Anyway obviously this game of who has it better or worse is stupid. Individuals can have all kinds of problems or benefits from their body, as well as simply different preferences. But it's on everyone to make good choices for themselves and try to enjoy and treat the body they have the best way possible.

Yes pregnancy sucks in my opinion, but I wont cry about how unfair it is, i just wont go through it. Fuck it. I'm glad that with the cards we got we have full control over whether or not we will have children. But it seems utterly hypocritical to me to look at a man who feels the same way I do, and rationalize why in his case it should be completely out of his hands and all the responsibility needs to fall on him.

[–]GridReXXit be like that5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No one is crying sis.

I was stating that comparing orgasm mess to blood and cramps is a comparison that doesn’t resonate for me.

I know how to masturbate. Thanks for the refresher...

[–]87AudreyHorne0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not drawing equivalence, I am pointing out that each body comes with some potential issues and some potential benefits. It's all about how you spin it.

But to be focused on the topic, both sides are fully accountable and yet I believe both sides should have choices to not fuck up their whole lives because of an accident. Periods and erections essentially dont matter at all here.

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yah. Everyone. Accountability. We don’t disagree.

[–]lucky_beast 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

you: "Everyone should be accountable."

also you: "Except women, because they're children and unable to be accountable for their own consensual actions."

Just eat your L and walk away, it's embarrassing watching you get slapped around like an ugly stepchild.

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

you: "Everyone should be accountable."

also you: "Except women, because they're children and unable to be accountable for their own consensual actions."

Just eat your L and walk away, it's embarrassing watching you get slapped around like an ugly stepchild.

You literally made up that second part up. Quite literally. I have to laugh at this uber triggered response of yours. And also delete it because against sub rules. Sad!™️

[–]rus9384Misanthrope4 points5 points  (37 children) | Copy Link

But men don’t have vaginas. Don’t get periods. Don’t get menstrual cramps. Don’t get ovulation cramps. Don’t get yeast infections. Don’t have to worry about their PH balance being disrupted just because they had sex with their SO/any penis. Don’t get pregnant. Don’t have their bodies altered internally and externally as a result of pregnancy. Don’t expend as much effort caretaking and raising the child as the mother even when he wants a baby. And so forth.

I love all that feminist talk. Especially the first sentence. Like having a vagina itself takes away your choices.

Then, of course, men have their own problems...

[–]GridReXXit be like that6 points7 points  (36 children) | Copy Link

Au contrarie. Having a vagina and everything else you quoted grants us more choice on this axis.

Not sure what you’re getting at, but you’ve misinterpreted my point.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

au contraire*

[–]GridReXXit be like that5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Yes. *au contraire

I spelled it right the first time but this damn English autocorrect doesn’t like non-English words.

👨‍🎨

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

is it used often? doesn't sound like an expression most people would understand.

[–]lefactorybebe2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It's used a lot. Au contraire, au contraire mon ami, au contraire Mon Cheri, au contraire Mon frere, are all commonly used. I must have a different keyboard, my phone recognizes it just fine, but wants to capitalize it all lol.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Must come from some films, no?

[–]lefactorybebe3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I have no clue. English has a lot of phrases borrowed from other languages. Most likely because America in particular is a nation of immigrants, other languages work their way into our vernacular. does the same thing happen in French?

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Englicism is common in french, but otherwise we build words according to greec or latin roots, I'll have to see by myself what kind of words we borrowed from other languages, all I know are some words we took from arabians.

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Idk I feel like the phrase is used enough in American lol

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

si tu l'dis. x)

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Having a vagina and everything else you quoted grants us more choice on this axis.

You are wrong. Feminism grants you more choice on this axis.

[–]GridReXXit be like that5 points6 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Nah. Having a vagina does.

Pre-20th century feminism I could induce a miscarriage if I wanted to and not involve the father.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

What happened then?

[–]GridReXXit be like that5 points6 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

If played well, he will think she had an unfortunate miscarriage. Do you think women are stupid Rus? They’ve worked within the confines of patriarchal rule longer than you’ve been around.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy Link

But what does it have to do with responsibility?

[–]GridReXXit be like that2 points3 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

State your point. I’ll respond to that.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

What is the message related to the OP?

[–]AngelFire_3_14156Red Pill Princess2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

"They have the choices."

You're right. And so do women.

Which is why I don't let anyone bang me that I wouldn't consider a good partner and good baby making material. If you want validation, then look elsewhere.

[–]GridReXXit be like that5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay? Last time I checked I too am mindful of who cums in me. I’ve also never been pregnant because it’s been fairly straight forward how to avoid it. This post isn’t about “validation.” It was simply offering a bit of perspective as to why things aren’t “equal.” The invention of BC didn’t make this dynamic “equal.” People who think that are silly as thee fuck.

[–]AngelFire_3_14156Red Pill Princess-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good for you!

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But you live 8 years longer, and in a more fresh state. I thought that was a pretty decent deal for women.

I don't see how the fragility of vagina in general is to be put in the addition. AFAIK women who easily get infections and PH issue/yeast infections are not that common. And I don't see how your genetic unfitness is men's problem, you didn't pick the genetic unfit men to begin with....

[–]HighResolutionSleepMen have always been the primary victims of maternal mortality.0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

But men don’t have vaginas. Don’t get periods. Don’t get menstrual cramps. Don’t get ovulation cramps. Don’t get yeast infections. Don’t have to worry about their PH balance being disrupted just because they had sex with their SO/any penis. Don’t get pregnant. Don’t have their bodies altered internally and externally as a result of pregnancy. Don’t have to take hormonal and physiologically altering birth control yet are usually the ones pestering for sex, raw sex, finishing in her baby-making type of sex. Don’t expend as much effort caretaking and raising the child as the mother even when he wants a baby. And so forth.

catch me never giving a fuck

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Likewise.

[–]HighResolutionSleepMen have always been the primary victims of maternal mortality.0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad that we're in agreement that women's vagina pains have absolutely fuck all to do with a just arrangement of power and responsibility.

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

We aren’t in agreement about anything.

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

We aren’t in agreement about anything.

[–]HighResolutionSleepMen have always been the primary victims of maternal mortality.0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh. Well, your previous reply seemed to indicate as much.

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Whatever makes you happy love.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay, so, if a condom breaks, but has been used properly, then the company who produces them also should have its responsibility.

For unprotected sex I agree.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I would rather enshrine in law that disallowing abortion is akin to forcing one person to provide a transfusion or organ donation to another person and that rather than focusing on the unborn fetus we should focus on a woman's right to end the physical state of pregnancy and not go through one. The fetus dying is an unfortunate side effect of a woman's right to not experience pregnancy.

If we focused our attention there, there's really nothing more for men to say or tack on, as men cannot experience pregnancy excepting the trans boys (and as I understand that is a big medical maybe) and if we all focused entirely on the state of pregnancy we could leave the rest of the arguments behind.

Because the entire point of not having something like "legal paternal surrender" is that a woman has a right to end a pregnancy, but once a new human is here it needs support and throwing that in the mix means yeah we can justify things like child support for non custodial parents.

If you wanna change the child support system stop bitching about abortion and fight for UBI. No need to tie you financially to your child if the state does it for you. There's your way out, gentlemen. I expect to see UBI advocacy from all of you, it's clearly in your self interest.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

fight for UBI. No need to tie you financially to your child if the state does it for you.

I doubt $1,000 a month (it's basic income after all) will be sufficient to replace the child support system, which involves larger amounts because raising babies involves larger amounts.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The basic principle of UBI is that correctly adopted it would amount to a sustainable wage that allows you live a basic life. The idea is that you do not have to work to survive, changing the nature of labor participation in the market and giving them an inherent power against the collective negotiating power of corporations that they did not have before.

So, in my ubi pipe dream it would probably be considerably more than that.

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

UBI

Would you stipulate that all other 'welfare' aid end ie. ACA, medicare, unemployment?

Would you stipulate the UBI doesn't increase/scale with children per household?

If so, UBI doesn't increase the welfare paid out and will be voted down by the poor voters. If it is a net increase in welfare spending then I reject your proposal.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The idea is that you do not have to work to survive,

The thing is, who is going to do the jobs no one wants to do except out of desperation? We need people to clean the toilets, pick up the trash and change Grandma's adult diaper. I see no reason why society should incentivize all of these workers to sit at home on their backsides instead. And before you say "They wouldn't" -- give me $1,000 a month and I'll quit two out of my three jobs tomorrow!

[–]stldrmn1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So basically the responsible adults have to subsidize the actions of irresponsible adults? No thanks.

And just to clarify I'm not talking about men vs women, I'm talking about people that plan appropriately regarding children and those that don't.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I love people who put stuff this way. You already subsidize things worse than this.

[–]stldrmn1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"You already subsidize things worse than this. Why not subsidize more?" Classic.

Also, what makes you think I agree with subsidizing those other things?

[–]oneprettycoolcat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

but once a new human is here it needs support

Yep, and it can get it from the mother who decided to have the kid. If she can't do that, then why shouldn't they simply be allowed to starve?

[–]HighResolutionSleepMen have always been the primary victims of maternal mortality.0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would rather enshrine in law that disallowing abortion is akin to forcing one person to provide a transfusion or organ donation to another person and that rather than focusing on the unborn fetus we should focus on a woman's right to end the physical state of pregnancy and not go through one. The fetus dying is an unfortunate side effect of a woman's right to not experience pregnancy.

Okay, when artificial wombs become viable and Roe v. Wade dies because artificial viability begins at conception, I trust that you and other "it's about bodily autonomy" types will happily accept the day when women have the ability to terminate their pregnancy but no longer escape undesired parenthood. I am completely confident that you and all others have a completely principled take on this issue, and won't be agitating to preserve a woman's right to effect that "unfortunate side effect" of abortion, which is, according to polls, the overwhelming reason that women seek the procedure.

If we focused our attention there, there's really nothing more for men to say or tack on

Wrong. It doesn't matter if women having total control over the destiny of a fetus is intentional or accidental, its relevance to justice and equality exists nonetheless.

but once a new human is here it needs support and throwing that in the mix means yeah we can justify things like child support for non custodial parents.

How interesting that this mandate only ever seems to justify disproportionate burden upon men. Funny how that works out.

If you wanna change the child support system stop bitching about abortion and fight for UBI.

How about instead we begin to hold women responsible for their power and authority for the first time in human history?

Aw, who am I kidding. We'll have fully automated luxury space communism well before something like that ever happens.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

spare me the “what if she says she’s on BC?”

OK, so...

Let’s discuss. .

What if she says she's on birth control?

Also....consider, women take on the vast majority of the risk and responsibility of pregnancy and childbirth/rearing....have a wide array of birth control......and ultimate discretion over getting an abortion.

Can't wait to see the circle jerking in the comments.

[–]87AudreyHorne0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But we have choices. You don't have to be on bc, you dont have to accept sex without condom, you dont have to keep the kid. When I hear people talk like this it sounds like unprotected sex is something men do to women. But if it happens it means both sides went for it, and the idea that somehow then a guy needs to step up and take responsibility makes me still dont understand what about her responsibility. She also made many conscious choices and if told that the guy wont support the child, she gets to decide if that will work out for her or not. She isnt helpless and without agency just having things happening to her.

[–]AutoModeratorBiased Against Humans[M] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Attention!

  • You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.

  • For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.

  • If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.

  • OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]SunflowerBurst1 in 12 Americans is unaware that the bird is the word0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

T U R K E Y B A S T E R

[–]lord-webb2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree

[–]we-are-men-with-ven1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men: does the thing to make babies

:baby happens

Men: shockedpicachu.jpg

[–]Taipanshimshonhere for the downvotes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok so we can admit that every girl is crazy?

Just admit that you think women have no agency.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

yeah. these discussions get a little boring with guarded talk so i'm just gong to go mask off and say i care more about women and children than i do about adult men so i don't care if its unfair to them to make them pay or to leave them with less choice.

[–]Vagina-slurper 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Dont worry, most of us already know you're a man-hating femcel.

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband[M] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Be civil.

[–]angels-fanCrooning over hellscapes0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do so love you!

[–]katymarxPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My thoughts exactly. Suck it up studs.

[–]gasparddelanuit1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In the name of equality, if both are responsible, there should be no issue about giving men reproductive rights, like the rights women have to abort a child. Men should have the equivalent right of financial abortion.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No shit why are you even posting this?

Sluts gonna take nuts from Chad anyway though

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

3 days.

Sperm lives for 3 days.

Also, are you familiar with a triangle lock? It's a well known lock that is difficult to break. Women locking ankles basically does that.

My wife likes to mess around by doing that when she's wants more cuddles. I can literally just stand up from it without breaking the hold.

[–]AggravatingTartlet1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You will get nowhere with this discussion point.

The men here deny science. Like they live in cavepeople days and don't understand that sperm can fertilize an egg.

They want to be able to ejaculate inside a woman and have zero responsibility for what happens afterward. That is the only point they are willing to discuss.

[–]angels-fanCrooning over hellscapes1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You mean like how women want zero responsibility for what happens??

[–]AggravatingTartlet1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

ZERO responsibility?!?

Oh my lord. The woman spends her life being responsible. From the tender age of 10, she's managing periods. And then from teenage-hood, she's managing contraception and the associated expense and doctors' visits, and all the issues from contraception that gave her awful side effects while she tries to find something that suits her. And hormonal contraceptives are likely to dampen or kill her sex drive. And on top of all that the risk of a pregnancy happening inside her own body, and then she has to decide whether to abort or have the baby, all while pregnancy hormones are flooding her body and brain.

If she has the baby on her own, she will then have ALL the responsibility of raising the child, and most or all of the cost.

And you say.... zero?

No wonder it comes as a great shock to men that they could be required to wear a condom or to do anything other than nut, because that is ALL they've ever done.

[–]ShitArchonXPRFurfag autist|Too misogynist for BP|Too socially liberal for RP0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What about vasectomies?

[–]AggravatingTartlet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What about vasectomies?

Vasectomies are responsible if you don't want to have kids.

[–]wingbarkplacid not flaccid when im kissin’ on a bitch0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seems reasonable to me. I don’t even do that to my gf and I’ll probably marry her

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I'm fine with this, it's women that aren't

Ladies- don’t let people who aren’t your husband nut in you

How to not get a husband 101

[–]azngirl7689[S] 7 points8 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

You have to let men nut in you and risk pregnancy to get a husband? Cats 4 life then.

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah condom sex is pretty lame

[–]azngirl7689[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Do you raw dog randoms?? You should get tested..

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wearing condoms is the worst part of banging randos

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s literally why I quit doing it years ago

[–]AggravatingTartlet1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah condom sex is pretty lame

And that, my friends, is why men keep on having unwanted babies.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You’re bi: why not a wife?

[–]azngirl7689[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m not THAT bi haha. I don’t think I’d get serious with a lady. Just not that bi.

[–]ShitArchonXPRFurfag autist|Too misogynist for BP|Too socially liberal for RP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have a question I've been wondering about.

Is this a factor? From what I've seen on lesbian dating apps, women who aren't obese or transtrenders (or a thirsty male neckbeard claiming to be a pre-HRT trans woman) are way harder to find than attractive men.

I really feel sorry for lesbians in Anglo countries, their dating pool is shit and makes a cis man's dating pool look like a straight woman's dating pool by comparison. They get the women with the highest rates of dumpy physiques (as opposed to high-BMI black women with a voluptuous ass), bad haircuts and tucute snowflakery--all traits that are bad enough among heterosexual Anglo women. They get the worst, highest-androgen-sensitivity trans women. They don't get to fuck the good women that a beautiful Chad can get--be it cis women like Roaming Millennial or trans women like Blaire White.

The distinct impression I get is that for bisexual women the realities of the dating market strongly incentivize ending up with a man because finding another woman worth fucking--much less an LTR--is significantly harder. And I've never seen that factor considered when GenderCritical has rants about "bi women are disloyal and will leave you for a man."

[–]thegoldensnitch90 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

As long as you're in a serious relationship and the woman is on birth control (and actually knoes how to take it!!!!) or has an IUD it's ok but otherwise it's just plain stupid

[–]slavicgypsygirl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I will always feel & take responsibility for my own body, sti precautions & birth control

[–]welcometothejlRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What if you want a child, but you just want to take care of it half the time instead of paying child support?

[–]Next_Flow10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

> Also sperm dies after a certain time.

Yes generally speaking when it dries up, not after ten seconds

[–]Bntt890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ya and the man should also get an equal say I whether the baby is aborted or not.

[–]ariesv123Purple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

yea it takes atleast two people to have sex. It’s fucking stupid to not both have some responsibility. Condoms can fail, birth control can fail. Also STDs! Don’t be upset when you make a mistake if you weren’t even taking the right precautions in the first place in your end

[–]sexking96690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How about not birthing a child that I’m letting you know I don’t want to help support?

[–]rosyandthemachine0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can we all just agree that both MEN and WOMEN are responsible for unplanned pregnancy? Men- your sperm created the baby. If you didn’t nut inside a woman that baby wouldn’t exist! Ladies- don’t let people who aren’t your husband nut in you. Men are rarely interested in their bastard children. You’re going to be a single mom.

I think this is all fair.

I still think if you don't want a child, just have an abortion. If she opts not to have an abortion, its HER fault alone.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Rawdog all the time, every time, or you are no true alpha. The wisdom of the sack is superior to the paltry wisdom of the brain. Reproduction: Whether you want to or not, your dna knows it's time.

You may not like it, but this is what peak evolutionary instinct looks like.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I hope this is satire!

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer-1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Can we all just agree that if you don't want a bullet into the back of your head, or rot in prison for the rest of your life, you should not abuse strong addictive substances while on late stages of pregnancy?

No? - Then my answer is "No" as well.

Want to live in the world of individual responsibility for one's actions? - Fine; let's get rid of mandatory social security first.

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Don't you live in one of those countries with socialized medicine? Do do you opt out and demand to pay your share? You know for reasons of personal responsibility?

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Do do you opt out and demand to pay your share?

Is this supposed to be a Gotcha?

This option is not available under the law; all what I can do is buy private insurance on top of already paying for mandatory one. As I did many times, with wonderful outcomes - such as, doctors that I visited either for full price or using private insurance - didn't have a dozen of symptoms of alcoholism on their faces, didn't laugh at me after I told them my symptoms, didn't rush to get rid of me in mandatory-insurance-provided 12-minute period (during which they're obliged to either admit me into the hospital or to let go with a medicine prescription), didn't go to get a tea break in the middle of having a line of several dozen people waiting outside of their office (despite all of them booking the appointment in advance and coming in time), didn't fuggin' demand I come to the appointment at fuggin' 6 AM, i.e. 20 minutes after public transportation starts working, and actually take some time after finishing with me to explain what was wrong with me, how it was fixed, and when I should ckeck for it the next time. Under socialized medicine, my most enlightening experience was emergency visit with almost paralyzing back pain, and getting out without being given any painkillers so I could comfortably go to the drug store and buy a long-term solution there. As a result, I basically crawled to said drug store. In my more-than-30 years of life, I only once tried to use socialized dentistry, and since then I ALWAYS use private one ("tried" because after spending an hour waiting in line, I just said "Fuck it" and went to a private clinic). Same as every other person within the circle of my friends.

So, was this supposed to be a Gotcha?

Finally, there's something like 10x more of my tax money spent by the state on retirement than on medicine.

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Gotcha for what? Long winded.

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Gotcha for what?

"If you want to live in the world of personal responsibility, let's get rid of SocSec first" - "But, you live in a country with socialized medicine! GOTCHA!"

TLDR: Yes, I do; Yes, I pay for it (socialized medicine); no, I avoid using it except when super-necessary. Socialized medicine is full of incompetent neglectful alcoholics who were given their MD diplomas by huge mistake.

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yah whatever I think of MDs you do not graduate med school by mistake.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But what do they call the guy who graduates last in his class? "Doctor"!

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. All the alcoholics and all the teetotalers went to the same schools.

[–]MCMTI-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't agree to stop busting nuts in my female...you wait just a minute OP!!!

😊

Risk/Reward. The reward is great enough to risk it. I have a leave in game not a pull out game.

[–]lestratege-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Busting a nut is necessary condition for a baby but it's wrong to infer that because you busted a nut you're thus responsible. It's like saying that a driver who gets T.boned by a drunk running a red light is responsible for the accident since had he not been driving he wouldn't have had an accident.

This is exactly the same. Women are 100% in control of whether a baby gets born. They just don't want the responsibility when it's inconvenient for them so they use the same excuse as the drunk driver: "If the other car hadn't been there, there would not have been an accident." A necessary condition is not a sufficient cause.

[–]AggravatingTartlet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's like saying that a driver who gets T.boned by a drunk running a red light is responsible for the accident since had he not been driving he wouldn't have had an accident.

It's like saying if a man puts fuel (ejaculate) in a car (woman) that is out of gas and therefore makes that car go---and then saying that the man has no responsibility for making the car go.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter