TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

96

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/

Everyone has seen this article. Male celibacy among young men has tripled in the past decade but stayed stable for young women. Who are these young women fucking? Are they dating older men now that young men aren't good enough anymore?

Bonus questions for women: If you were/are single, what would be your dating strategy? What age gap would you accept?


[–]NockerJoeKing Hater38 points39 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

If PPD is any indicator nondescript old dudes who own cars.

[–]the-lone-squidNot the edible squid11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And houses

[–]reluctantly_red9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Great I'm old and have a 2006 Prius. I'm set.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I had a 2007, recently was totaled by a cat converter theft

hit F to pay respects

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I recommend reading the tinder research. You are actually correct in the car (and house) thing.

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

The same top valued men they always have.

The top men always had most of the sex, what has changed is that the non top valued men are having absolutely no sex.

Think of it as a Sex inequality increasing withing men.

[–]ThatGamer7071 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yep, I think this will bring about some interesting changes in the future but hopefully, this can tie into men's rights somehow and making it more visible and accepted as more men turn to the internet for help with these struggles.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It will certainly help men's rights. However, I expect some decades of struggle still.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Sex inequality

lol, men are not entitled to sex, hence, there is no inequality.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It is irrelevant, since people arent entitled to anything, like wealth. Good to see you back Jezebel.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Good to see you back Jezebel.

?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I said what I mean.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i dont understand. i never went anywhere.

[–]vosidit98 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

lol, men are not entitled to sex

You mean ugly men are not entitled to sex.

For that matter people are not entitled to food, shelter or medical care.

[–]vosidit98 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Much like wealth is pooling in the hands of the top rich after the economic revolution known as the gig economy, sex is also pooling in the hands of the top desirable males after the sexual revolution known as Tinder.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

more or less, yes. You can think of STRs as gigs.

[–]Bronlyfe85 points86 points  (72 children) | Copy Link

It’s going to be the same top tier guys across all age groups. Online dating will continue to further and further exacerbate this phenomenon as it becomes more popular.

[–]reluctantly_red45 points46 points  (61 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. Lots of sex for top tier guys -- nothing for many. Unfettered markets at work.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie5 points6 points  (60 children) | Copy Link

Don't you think women will pay in the back end of this? Or do you think they'll be just fine?

[–]reluctantly_red29 points30 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The women will be just fine. It's the disposable guys who will suffer.

[–]762RiflemanNeither33 points34 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't you think women will pay in the back end of this?

Not with Feminism doing its usual 'chivalry when convenient, empowerment when not' bullshit.

[–]OatsGYOWMGTOW[🍰] 30 points31 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They will lie, and do just fine. Those that don't lie will shame any criticism, and they will also indeed do just fine.

There may be some mental "damage" like pairbonding, but nobody has actually studied it in any depth, and even if it is significant, those women will probably be fine regardless.

[–]KazROFL6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pay?

Depends on the kind of person they are.

If they're miserably slogging through noncommittal men in an attempt at sustainable intimacy, then yeah they're paying the whole way through lol.

If they just want the rush of endorphins like guys, they'll be fine.

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks10 points11 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

I think the women who will ultimately pay for this situation the most will be average to below average women who want a family in their late 20s to 30s. I imagine it will be tough for them. Their options will be a few normal and similarly average guys who didnt get scooped up earlier, and then a bunch of tradcons/incels/losers trying to beta up the ladder.

[–]GridReXXit be like that8 points9 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Wouldn’t that be their options earlier?

[–]TheLongerCon3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's my experience most high tier guys prefer to commit to younger women. If you do the casual thing too long you risk being in the situation where a lot of the men are 1) fuckboys 2) unattractive or 3) looking to settle down with a younger girl.

Just a trend I've noticed with my female friends complaining about dating.

[–]GridReXXit be like that3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This still doesn’t compute for me. If she had the option to have a top tier guy at 21 most women would try to keep him. And they do.

[–]TheLongerCon4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If she had the option to have a top tier guy at 21 most women would try to keep him. And they do.

Say you're a 22-year-old girl who's a 6, you can seriously date a 6 , or casually date/sleep around with an 8. When girls are young they tend to pick the 8. They can do this because hot guys will sleep with anything that's easy and girl date up in age so the numbers are in their favor. They're not looking to start a family anytime soon so what if the guy doesn't have his shit together, he's hot and fun.

When they get older if they haven't locked down a good enough guy, either because they were fucking around with a hot but non-serious guy, or just because they had bad luck, they're in a bad position if they want a family. Times running out for them, and they want more from men than ever, a pretty face and fun personality aren't enough, he has to have a serious income and a willingness to commit it to her family. And guys know this. Guys know that a girl who's 27+ is probably looking to get married and have kids soon, so it makes them less hesitant to commit because that's a lot of work, and if they're going to commit to a girl long term, they might as well try getting one whos 4 years younger, who will be hotter, have less baggage, and less insistent on getting a ring and a kids.

Obviously, not all girls fall for this trap, but enough do for me, and others, to notice the pattern.

[–]ThatGamer7072 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but these guys will always be jaded now. When they are out with friends and one guy mentions some crazy experience he had in college that guy will know he missed out on all that.

Guys have egos and they are important things. These guys will have resentment, more of an urge to cheat, misogyny issues, fragile masculinty, depression, etc. Pretty much they will be mentally fucked because they will always know they failed at a prime objective of their life even if they later get in a relationship.

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Sure. That’s his internal world.

I’m asking how does this affect her or make her want to have sex with him when he’s young? I was inquiring about women’s motivations and desires.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It depends where she stands. If she is very attractive with a good RMV she will be fine imo. There are only so many men and women. It is the women that will need to start pairing with some of these men to start a family that will be affected by this.

[–]GridReXXit be like that2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure. And she knows that. My point is her pairing with a man she doesn’t respect / admire / isn’t attracted earlier doesn’t make her happier.

It may make him happy. In that “yay I got a woman who hates my guts and deadbedrooms me but at least she didn’t fuck other men.” Idk I guess.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the argument is going like this a woman that is a 6 might traditionally end up with a 6 when younger but in the current state fucks 8/7s.

When she goes to settle down though and get a commitment for marriage it is a 6 and he has some issues because of this dynamic.

Obviously, she is one girl and if she is happier with the 7/8s when younger then go for it. The system is what it is... One guy or girl can't really change it.

Yay I got a woman who hates my guts and deadbedrooms me but at least she didn’t fuck other men

It is the same issue ppl have over wealth inequality. This is a 2 fold problem. One he is failing at a prime objective of his life. Have sex and 2 the guys at the top are having better and crazier sex and more often with more ppl.

He cares that she fucked other men only because she got to live it up and he didn't imo. Maybe he also cares because he thinks it makes her more likely to cheat as well.

[–]PostModernCommieAnarcha-Femimnist (They, Them)3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s nice revenge porn.

But women continue to bang and settled down well into their 40s.

With improvements in technology, women may be able to have children well into their 50s.

What will the red pill betas do then?

[–]Xemnas812 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Single mothers on welfare are already paying for this-as their benefits are being scrapped, meaning they have less to live on than the cost of living. Same with terminally ill women. Some have already died, as have homeless, mentally ill and disabled (ergo low status) men.

Hypergamy is reliant upon a prosperous and safe civilization and it always drains the budget a little. I am not sure I would say as much as corporate welfare, but the majority of welfare is for women. We fundamentally want to keep women alive more than men. If women are being left for dead (usually for being poor and/or un-married 'whores' not for being women per se) then that means that the male imperative is very angry.

edit: The other thing is that Alpha Bucks (e.g. politicians) know that high SMV women are more profitable sex objects to sell to propagate the myth of the American Dream. And of course to fuck. So they have a vested interest in keeping them alive and very content consumers-typically assuming they are more productive and responsible citizens, too. Self-serving hamstring by these men, yes.

[–]Dweller_of_the_Abyss1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are becoming quite the social analyst, let’s see you become a social engineer.

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly.

[–]katymarxPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well that’s what they would have gotten regardless.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Women, like in any other market, will seek the best deal possible.

However what the best deal possible is can a mistake. It can be a lack of information, or wrong information thing. The current market is based on a series of mistaken information, Example:

  • "The wall is not a thing",
  • "Women don't need family, partners or children to be happy",
  • "There is no value in lot attractiveness men",
  • "Men ought to be like women" ,
  • "There is no difference between men and women (biological, experimental, etc.)",
  • "Men have a highly proficient and secretive organization, the patriarchy",
  • "Men have the same in-group preferences (or any preferences) like women".
  • "Men cannot love",
  • "Men are just as complex as women",
  • "Your choices will not have hard consequences later in life",
  • "Other people need to provide for you, if you are in an unfavorable position",
  • Etc

All these lead to a world where in the short run it may make women somewhat more happier, but lead to unhappiness in the long run.

The market will orientate itself in due time, but the fact is, many of women's (and men's) behaviors are predicated in incorrect assumptions. Leading to unwise market decisions, which inevitably lead to a decrease in happiness.

You need to have free markets and correct/free flowing knowledge in order to the market to adjust itself. Or so says classical liberalism.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

On a macro level the market can correct itself. On the micro level as always this will result in large amounts of people hurt and a lot of people having a deal worse than before, even if they had a bad deal before.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is harder on the micro level because of one single fact. Individuals are not good at getting good information.

They will, mostly time willingly, avoid knowing the truth and keep on their mistakes, (like going to church, or believing in feminism, the ideology). If you have at least good information going around, you could after failing a lot, be happy... but we are surrounded by liars and they are so proficient in propaganda that... well... You get where we are.

For example, in the economic market, conscious spending, capitalistic spending and minimalism is so small because they are drowned by the consumerist crowd. Same can be said of the red pill in the sexual or relationships markets. People are not as pragmatic as they should be... or at least that is my opinion.

[–]is_done3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It really depends on how women feel about being used for sex by top tier men. I think atm the prevailing feeling among young women who do this is one of an ego boost. This is because they still think in the old paradigm. But more and more it becomes clear that they'll never get commitment out of guys like that and that getting laid with hot guys as a young girl doesn't mean shit.

The unwillingess of young women right now to adjust their standards accordingly stems from wanting to keep the illusion alive. If at some point the red/blackpill become so mainstream that the illusion will be untenable, we might see some shifts again. Interesting times ahead to be sure.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They are satisfying a need. Does not matter if it is not a need for relationships. This is supply and demand..

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19931 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

um, sweetie, women don't need men, a family and a white picket fence to be happy. there was a study proving that.

sorry feminists destroyed this carefully built illusion you men created to exploit women as a class but that is ancient history now and we are not going back.

being single>being with a male and kids.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

No, they don't need it, there are many sources of happiness which do not need a house, a family or a man, but it is certainly a good (and easy) source of happiness for many women.

May I see this reported study? You know my love for the scientific data and I find it hard to believe that there is no causation between these and happiness. As I read many findings on the contrary.

I would also suggest you read the Oxford report about the women happiness paradox, and more precisely, how it relates to family and relationship.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

All these lead to a world where in the short run it may make women somewhat more happier, but lead to unhappiness in the long run.

This is what I notice. A lot of miserable women with no idea how to navigate and that "mistaken information" keeps them there. It just seems the market will coarse correct out of sheer consequence because they didn't listen to "tradition" that already came to that solution years ago. Unnecessarily reinventing the wheel, if you will.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not only people do not hear tradition, but they refuse to hear... well... anything that does not align with their view. I lose a good debate but this a dying tradition too.

None hears outside of their thought bubble. And some people who are particularly loud make the minds of way too many. Which is a danger.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Bravo ,excellent explanation.

Imo ,unless technology balances the male side of the SMP (VR/sexbots?) ,In a few years men will simply stop getting married.We will either have a situation of perpetual harems (unlikely because we still need families) or women will start policing themselves and try cater more to men's preferances (low n count,loyalty,youth etc.) in hopes of getting married.

[–]Xemnas813 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

women will start policing themselves and try cater more to men's preferances (low n count,loyalty,youth etc.) in hopes of getting married.

This already exists, it's called anti-feminist YouTube and Women Against Feminism. (Granted, many women in that place are married already)

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a thing with very very few followers though.

[–]idhavetocharge8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What exactly do women need to 'pay' for?

Men that only want sex are not owed a damn thing. Men that hate women and whine about not getting sex and treat women as a disposable sex doll are not owed a damn thing.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are out there wanting sex everyday, women are out there wanting sex once a month, otherwise women are fine "going their own way".

[–]Xemnas810 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

'Paying back women' for the consequences of unbridled hypergamy, is what feminists call, Political Misogyny.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

I think it may make men, in general, more misogynistic or wake up to the sexism that hurts men and benefits women. I could see men's issues becoming larger in the future as empathy for women decreases due to dispelling the WAW effect.

This is going to make a large portion of men jaded. Just like as how the wealth inequality increases it makes ppl at the bottom angrier. The men at the top will be having more and crazier sex and even if these men finally settle down with a woman they will always know they missed out on that. Their mental state will be more unstable wrt to sex (more cheating, resentment, etc.)

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

um, men arent owed sex and a family. deal with it.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Never said they were... Ur clearly not too bright

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

um, yes you did. "sexism" that hurts poor menz...what sexism?

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Sexism in courts policies, culture, and society at large...

That doesn't mean I think all men are owed a family or sex. Listen ur clearly stupid. So I am not surprised that you can't read. Sexism doesn't mean sex.

Sexism definition:
prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination on the basis of sex (gender).

I am wealthy. You are likely poor and stupid. Unlike you, the state of laws pose a risk to me and I would like that to change. Ur tag is funny... I can't believe someone as stupid as you would even have an ego

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

oh, you have no arguments so you resort to pathetic attempts at hurting me.

woah, it almost got to me.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Umm no I just explained my argument... It is literally in the first statement

You started the attitude but you clearly are not capable of recognizing that. I am younger than you (assuming ur born in 1993) and more successful. Have fun looking up at me from the bottom while I am at the top. Also just know ur bf will never be as fit or successful as me. I work 20 hours a week and make six figures while in college lmao. I am just getting started.

resort to pathetic attempts at hurting me

I am just stating things as they are if that hurts you that is your problem. Ppl say mean things on the internet to me all the time.

You had an attitude and got snarky. I pointed out your obvious mistake. Like I said I never have and never will say men are owed sex or a family. That doesn't mean there won't be repercussions. So you think no men have become misogynistic or jaded from struggling to get sex?

I figured the stuff I pointed out was pretty obvious.

[–]PostModernCommieAnarcha-Femimnist (They, Them)0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good news.

Luckily, top tier dudes are now the skinny, artsy vegan types

[–]statusincorporated0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

It's going to be guys who can afford the basics: place to live, car. Less and less men can afford this now.

Stop overthinking it and being paranoid of 'chad.'

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

You need a new kind of definition to consider this "basics" My family don't own those since... well... ever.

[–]Xemnas810 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

kinda makes his point, doesn't it?

[–]69XxXCuckboyXxX690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

High value men reproducing, low value men working. Nature does it's job, everything as it should be.

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man54 points55 points  (293 children) | Copy Link

The young men that are not celibate, obviously. There's a reason 'enjoy the decline' is a saying over on TRP. It's a shame so many men are left out of the dating game now but if you can take advantage of it more power to you.

[–]datingapppro41 points42 points  (175 children) | Copy Link

That’s been a saying for a while and it’s actually pretty crazy to see the decline right before our eyes. Internet culture is often a good proxy about issues that aren’t yet mainstream, but will be. This phenomenon is no different

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man46 points47 points  (173 children) | Copy Link

Yep. The explosion of incel and MGTOW culture is very concerning and is only going to get worse. Online dating has effectively ruined male-female relationships because it puts our already antagonistic styles into an extremely high-throughput system that favours a small percentage of men while simultaneously creating an environment where these men feel no need to commit to any women. It's bad for almost everyone involved.

[–]Shazoa29 points30 points  (131 children) | Copy Link

In fairness, though I agree that MGTOW and Incel communities are more vocal and present these days, it still feels like the phenomenon is kept afloat and relevant primarily by people taking the piss out of them.

Subs like Inceltears, and the older Niceguys, are filled with people picking over relatively few posts and laughing at them - and now people are using 'incel' to just mean creepy or misogynistic guys more broadly in completely unrelated places or subs.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater19 points20 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I would disagree in that those aren't the only or even most active groups anymore. There's plenty of facebook meme groups that would swear up and down they aren't incels but are full of angry rejected men. Likewise there's plenty of discord groups that lean in that direction. So on and so forth. They aren't in a larger community or even in the manosphere at all, but the ideas crop up there all the time.

Likewise subs like r/relationships and r/askmen are far less charitable towards women than they used to be even a few years ago and way more defeatist. How can they not be? Now that the actual numbers are out as hard numbers anyone can see there's a lot of people asking why to even try.

[–]Shazoa11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think it's mostly that there's a difference between incels and the huge number of men that are... almost-incels. Like, the bottom rung of men who haven't taken the blackpill. The phenomenon of discontent and a societal shift towards accepting that many men are ending up lonely is definitely picking up momentum, though.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The problem is that, due to women's preferences, the bottom rung is very, very low down while there's a huge gap between it and the next rung. Most men are at that bottom rung.

Men see the gaping chasm and think it's just not worth it trying to make the leap. Maybe they are lucky and one woman lowers the ladder a bit more to make it easier but men have realised there's a party among the top rungs they will probably never get invited to, so why bother? I don't think all of them give up but enough do that it eats away at a country's foundation: family and community. I personally believe it's planned so governments have more control over us (divide and rule).

Speaking of ladders, this shit started with ladder theory and the friendzone. Then men started collecting data on their experiences and the data on online dating just confirmed what they believed.

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

PsyOps, I like that idea. I mean, it's evil, but it's fun to think about.

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man19 points20 points  (85 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I've been called an incel more than once any time the 'gender war' argument comes up and I try to weigh in on the side of men. I do think you underestimate how big of an issue this is eventually going to be though. I know a ton of 'incels' that don't even follow the culture, they just have no desire to do anything aside from work eat sleep and play video games. This represents a ton of young men. These men are not going anywhere and are not going to be forming families. The downfall of the family unit will be the downfall of the west.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew12 points13 points  (63 children) | Copy Link

. I know a ton of 'incels' that don't even follow the culture, they just have no desire to do anything aside from work eat sleep and play video games

how are they "involuntary" celibates then?

[–]PMmeYourHopes-Dreams10 points11 points  (44 children) | Copy Link

They aren't going on dates because they can't.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew7 points8 points  (37 children) | Copy Link

they just have no desire to do anything aside from work eat sleep and play video games

what does that say?

[–]reluctantly_red16 points17 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

That they've given up. Its a chicken and egg thing. But I'm of the opinion that if they'd gotten at least a little positive feedback they wouldn't be retreating into video and computer games.

[–]the-lone-squidNot the edible squid7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Idk, i kinda gave up after years of success. Not all mgtow are young, many of us are older and just simply over it all

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yea I've gotta agree. I totally fault these guys for not putting in the due effort, but it is for sure a chicken/egg thing. My one backpacking buddy admits that he doesnt put himself out there anymore, but talking to him it's easy to tell its cause he just doesnt see the juice as worth the squeeze

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew1 point2 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

im astonished that after reading incels here all this time you think theyre trying, cant you see theyre not?

[–]rhyth71 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

And they should if they don't want to be worthwhile humans. There are plenty of single people who live fulfilling lives volunteering and traveling and creating and doing, and while gaming is fine and dandy it shouldn't be the only thing that ppl do.

[–]darkmoon090 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly this. People don't seem tonrealize that thus is a sustaining cycle.

[–]SerorimanCombat-grade nerd4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The ratio of effort to effect is too bad and there is too much frustration involved - plus a good chunk of them frankly have no idea how this goes and no one is telling them (and some are even actively and maliciously misleading them).

So they know it's uncomfortable, takes a lot of effort and probably doesn't pay off...and just say "fuck it" and do things that actually give them some sort of satisfaction.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

i have no doubt thats true, but you cannot convince me that there isnt a new cohort of men who are never trying. i have eyes and i can read

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Parents that never taught them the tools to cope with life.

[–]MrShakedown12 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Wrong !! Can't and don't want to. Technically they could date and fuck landwhales, but it's not rewarding, so it's better to stay alone. Besides failures in dating take toll on mental health.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

They were so good at not getting laid, they saw the signs and just quit.

They then became...er... voltcells volcels?

[–]RadOke 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

These men are not going anywhere and are not going to be forming families.

And when do we finally recognize that these men have earned this life? Listen, it's really not hard to have a successful romantic relationship. These men have quit trying, probably because they weak and low value men. They can simply choose to be better.

The downfall of the family unit will be the downfall of the west.

On this point we agree, but clearly this is the fault of low value males. In the 90s it was deadbeat dads. Now it's incels.

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

In part they have, absolutely. I don't disagree on that. Some other things not so much. There's no way around a potato face or being short for example, both things well known to really fuck up your chances with dating. Besides, whether or not it's their fault doesn't mean it's not still a problem, and as a society we collectively share that burden whether we want to or not.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

men are not owed families. period.

sorry not sorry that women choose singledom over ball-and-chains. there is a study proving that - women prefer being single and childfree to being tied to a man. they even live longer and happier.

what are women's incentives to marry and have kids? none.

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Could you link me to this study? I'd like to read it. The incentive to marry and have children is the same it's always been, reproduction is a biological instinct and it's one of the most emotionally rewarding things a person can do for their life longterm. Contraceptives have freed us from it being necessary, sure, but millions of years of evolution are not so easily unwritten.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

reproduction

sperm bank + raise the kid / kids with a female partner or in a all-female commune. already happening. i see no men in the equation.

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Uh huh. You think that'll become normal? You don't think men play a role in childhood development? There are decades of psychological research that would indicate that strong male role models are incredibly important. What would we do about that?

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

decades of pseudo-science cant make women unlearn the fact they are better off without men.

check-mate, "science"

[–]Daffan21 points22 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

People on IT are only one breakdown away from joining the other side.

[–]datingapppro6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yea was about to say, redditors on those subs have much more in common with incels than they realize

[–]MercyYouMercyMe3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

There's a big software engineer recently his wife up and left with his kid to Japan lmao. https://youtu.be/fssFXlNk6vw

Suddenly he's blatantly talking about mgtow. This is how imagine people throwing around incel are surprised when the music stops.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude yeah I follow that guy. I write software and was so surprised when I heard him talk about that stuff and the comments but yeah, made me think about some stuff.

[–]Grundleberries0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

There was always some dork in school who would use virgin as an insult and claim to have slept with hundreds of girls (all at other schools of course). IT are just those dorks, who are now terminally online.

[–]datingapppro0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What's IT?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

IncelTears

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Seriously, so many posts of them saying “well I may be a virgin, but at least I’m not an incel!”. It’s hilarious at times how delusional they are, or try their hardest to separate themselves. The worst part is that they act like incels, and even if you call them out they’re like “okay, but we don’t say misogynistic stuff!” as if that excuses the behavior they like to bash.

[–]Purple_haze13374 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Why make fun of them? Why not try to help ? I don't understand.

[–]ThatGamer7071 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Nobody wants to be at the bottom. Virgins are usually seen at the bottom for guys. This is their attempt to put someone (incels) below them.

[–]LillthOfBabylon5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

This is their attempt to put someone (incels) below them.

Wishing death and rape on women does put anyone near the bottom of any Western society.

[–]Dash_of_islamBidet 4 Life>Toilet paper unwashed proles0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wouldn't believe it. Most people need a painful slap from life before they will reconsider their entire worldview.

[–]LillthOfBabylon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You cant help. Incels won't let you help them. If you don't give them the answer they want to hear, they consider you a Chad/Stacy, and want you to fuck off.

[–]LillthOfBabylon2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The worst part is that they act like incel

Unless they're making manifestos about how women need to be treated like cattle, it's not even close. You're the delusional one if you think hating incels is about virgin shaming.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Didn’t only one of them do that? And wasn’t he the one who used to talk shit about incels?

[–]LillthOfBabylon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Didn’t only one of them do that?

No. Plenty of incels have done this. No one thought 'incels = evil' because of merely some shootings. We also looked what incels post online, which completely justifies their subreddit to be shut down.

[–]fevertree0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You can be a voluntary virgin. Or you can feel like virginity is a natural phase of existence. That would make you not an incel.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

These dudes aren’t voluntarily an incel though, the dudes on IT are incel because they don’t attract women.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And that is how they cheapen and destroy the shaming effect of the word. Incel will become the new "bitch" or "muh n***a".

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

If they were really MGTOW why would this data bother them? I mean a fair number of these guys are opting out because porn and video games are easier. Isn’t that what MGTOW is all about?

[–]Shazoa11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I think the whole MGTOW thing is a bit silly. If you really don't care about women / having a partner, then you don't turn it into your identity. That's pretty much the opposite of an IDGAF attitude.

[–]fleetwood-pc4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

We don't care about women. It's about walking away and IDGAF, but it's also about spreading these ideas to other men who may be unhappy but don't have a grasp on why they are unhappy. It's trying to help other people by showing them other options in life. It's about promoting brotherhood and masculinity. And it's also about educating young men about the reasons why we have chosen to take the MGTOW route in today's society.

[–]Shazoa5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And it's also about educating young men about the reasons why we have chosen to take the MGTOW route in today's society.

I think this is where the disbelief comes from for me. Sure, there will be some people for whom this isn't true, but generally speaking it doesn't seem like people choose that path at all - it's a way of coping, after the fact, with loneliness and rejection. I've known people with no interest in relationships, but they have never been vocal about it unless someone pressed them.

[–]fleetwood-pc3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is a strong element of brotherhood and the promotion of masculine virtues that may not be possible for women to understand fully. Or it may be unbelievable to you in the same way it may be unbelievable to me when a 300 pound purple haired feminist says that her urge to dismantle the patriarchy has nothing to do with being rejected by men all her life.

There are definitely men who could never get a date if their lives depended on it who use MGTOW as a cope. But from my perspective I see a lot of normal decent men who are hurting, are confused, or have been brutalized and had their kids taken away by the divorce industry. These people should know that there's reasons they are feeling this way, and there's another way to approach life and possibly find happiness.

Oh yeah and I agree. Everybody comes to MGTOW from a place of pain. Nobody chooses this path, it finds them.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yes it's about opting out but you cannot expect people to just disable their feelings by declaring they will change their lifestyle. Furthermore, they also raise issues with others so they are aware of the problems men face. That cannot be done without involving a mixture of problems regarding society and women. I am sure you'd love for them to quietly just vanish, as would most women, but being a MGTOW doesn't mean being silent about societal wide issues.

But as much as they swear off women, they are really hurt that they either don't make the cut or would have to make compromises they aren't willing to. They would much rather have a family but are angry the cost of having one is just too high. For example, they would probably lose their kids and a lot of money in a divorce or have to spend a significant portion of their time improving themselved just to meet women's ever increasing standards. Considering most women are just unwilling to compromise and actually get upset at the possibility that they may have to change for the benefit of men, some men have asked why they always have to be the ones willing to change.

The other side of it is that there are MGTOW who aren't on reddit nor do are they aware of the movement but still continue to practice the basic beliefs of not getting into LTRs or getting married. You won't hear from them much like reddit isn't where all the feminists hang out.

On a similar note, there are plenty of feminists who have sworn off men but still complain about them all the time. Your argument could be used against some feminist subreddits too and it wouldn't change their desire to talk about issues.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That cannot be done without involving a mixture of problems regarding society and women.

Interesting how that “mixture of problems” never includes any accountability on men themselves.

On a similar note, there are plenty of feminists who have sworn off men but still complain about them all the time.

So if they all jumped off a bridge you would too.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So if they all jumped off a bridge you would too

Being hypocritical feels good. The more society accepts hypocrisy, the more people will be hypocritical.

I love how the elderly on here all be like "be your own person", because like all elderly people they forget what their younger selves were like and how impressionable they were.

It's like people drinking underage who think the drinking age should be lowered but then forget all about it once they're above the age.

Shame, all of this.

[–]poppy_blu 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

So now you’re going to follow me around on every thread pouting.

[–]Zqx1 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Don't flatter yourself I respond to whatever I see and feel the need respond to.

God I hope you're attractive enough in real life to merit having such an enormous ego. Otherwise it's just worthless.

[–]fevertree0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Any sub that acts as a grievance aggregator, usually has an equal and opposite sub.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

These groups are famous for their unintentional marketing.

[–]MrShakedown10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Laughing at them just produces fuel for those groups. Good work !!

[–]Barneysparky3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Guys that never got laid lived in the 80s as well. The biggest difference is the rate of obesity not the preference of women.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This would be fine if obese women were not getting laid today but they are having more sex than obese men. There's a statistic that the thinner and more beautiful a woman is, the lower her partner count. There is no BBM porn, for example. What you are suggesting would mean women would be free to be as fat as they want while requiring men to be in shape. Even overweight women overlook overweight men.

[–]Barneysparky1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If a guy is very large in the gut at a certain point he can't have sex. The penis shrinks until it's a inny.

Women do not have this issue.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train3 points4 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

The OLD boogeyman argument is losing steam.

There have always been men who had more sex than others. There have always been women who had their pick among tons of thirsty men. OLD didn’t create that dynamic and I get tired of OLD being just one more excuse for men who don’t want to engage in the game.

[–]TheLongerCon11 points12 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

There have always been men who had more sex than others. There have always been women who had their pick among tons of thirsty men. OLD didn’t create that dynamic and I get tired of OLD being just one more excuse for men who don’t want to engage in the game.

This is like saying the invention of the internet wasn't a big deal because people always communicated before. Cars weren't a big deal because people have always traveled. People read books before the invention of the printing press.

Scale matters. Technology isn't about letting people do things they've never done before, it's about letting them do so much more easily.

Yeah, they were always guys who got laid more than others, but the scale that we're currently at is like nothing else before.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

OLD is hardly comparable to the internet or cars. GMAB. It’s simply mirroring what has always existed in real life and the socially anxious people who thought OLD would be a godsend found out that it’s the same old same old and they’re mad.

This idea that OLD made women pickier and less apt to settle with bottom barrel men (because what, we didn’t have eyes before?) is pure delusion.

OLD didn’t make us more shallow. It just made it more socially acceptable to admit we’re shallow.

I get that young people who didn’t know the world before internet commerce (yes it existed) have a hard time wrapping their heads around this. But rest assured that 40 years ago there was a guy just like you complaining that single bars were going to destroy monogamy and the planet. At the end of the day, change happens and you can either adapt or you can cry that it isn’t fair and blame the change rather than you’re own inability to adapt for your misery.

[–]TheLongerCon7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

OLD is hardly comparable to the internet or cars. GMAB.

In that's it's a socially disruptive technology, absolutely.

It’s simply mirroring what has always existed in real life and the socially anxious people who thought OLD would be a godsend found out that it’s the same old same old and they’re mad.

It's not mirroring what existed prior to its inventions. I've had 4 girls come straight to my apartment to have sex via OLD. There's no way I would have slept with them if those apps didn't exist. I don't think most of the casual sex I've had would happen if the apps didn't exist.

Anyone who thinks online dating hasn't changed anything simply doesn't know any man that's been able to use it successfully.

This idea that OLD made women pickier and less apt to settle with bottom barrel men (because what, we didn’t have eyes before?) is pure delusion.

It provides you with more opportunity and anonymity to have casual sex. It makes it easier.

What OLD did was make it harder that’s than easier for socially anxious introverted types which is where the salt comes from IMO.

Meh, I'm on the introverted side and OLD helped me get laid way more than I would other wise. I don't like approaching and chatting up strangers, but I have above average looks and I'm good on first dates so the app works wonders, but even as someone who benefitted from it in some ways, I can see it's probably unhealthy.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I've had 4 girls come straight to my apartment to have sex via OLD. There's no way I would have slept with them if those apps didn't exist.

Are you seriously telling me that NSA sex didn’t exist or wasn’t common before tinder?

As much as I try to defend millennials, there’s a reason why people think what they do about you.

Meh, I'm on the introverted side and OLD helped me get laid way more than I would other wise.

In my day we used alcohol and bars/clubs. The result was the same.

have above average looks and I'm good on first dates

And had you been born 20 years earlier you’d have had the same success. You are literally proving my point.

[–]TheLongerCon3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Are you seriously telling me that NSA sex didn’t exist or wasn’t common before tinder?

No, and only someone completely incompetent in reading comprehension would have gotten that from my post.

Could I sit in my pajamas at home and match with a girl on an app and have her in my bed 2 hours later before tinder was big? You're completely missing the point.

It's like you're saying: "Well, there were people reading books before the printing press was invented, therefore the printing press was no big deal"

In my day we used alcohol and bars/clubs. The result was the same.

No shit. I'm well aware of what a bar is. What's more of hassle: going out getting drunk and approaching a bunch of strangers in the hope of getting laid, or sitting at home and swiping.

And had you been born 20 years earlier you’d have had the same success. You are literally proving my point.

I really wouldn't have. You're proving my point in that most of the people who think OLD is NBD are inexperienced with it.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Could I sit in my pajamas at home and match with a girl on an app and have her in my bed 2 hours later before tinder was big?

We called them “booty calls” in my day. Dialing the phone was actually less effort than swiping.

most of the people who think OLD is NBD are inexperienced with it.

Quite the contrary. We’ve experienced it all, enough to know it’s all the same shit in different packaging. And we were all young and arrogant once too and thought we pioneered everything too.

[–]-OpportunityCostI don't care about your problems1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This idea that OLD made women pickier and less apt to settle with bottom barrel men (because what, we didn’t have eyes before?) is pure delusion

I wonder how many older posters here actually believe this.

[–]ThatGamer7071 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This idea that OLD made women pickier and less apt to settle with bottom barrel men (because what, we didn’t have eyes before?) is pure delusion.

Yes and no. First OLD lets women and men know where they stand. In the past that was a lot murkier. You get a huge confidence boost when tons of hot ppl are hitting on you. Similarly, your confidence can take a huge hit if you struggle and don't do as well as expected.

I know of plenty of girls that don't use OLD and they don't understand their options or value on the SMP because of that. For the vast majority of guys OLD will probably just be something that will lower their confidence a lot.

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, but it's significantly worse than before. It's a one-two punch, the end of monogamy as the cultural norm, and OLD.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

it is worse for whom? entitled men who think the world owes them an easy access to women's bodies?

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Worse for the men who can't get laid and the women who get pumped and dumped by a top man with many more options.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

men arent owed sex. we are happier single and/or sharing a top tier guy. sorry not sorry.

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

1/4 of women on depression meds disagree with you. Women are less happy than before the sexual revolution.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19931 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

the source of their unhappiness is not linked to not having a man but something more significant. stop being such a narcissist. the world doesnt revolve around your useless peen.

[–]darkmoon091 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Think of it this way then, if this kind of dynamic existed prior to OLD then certainly OLD radically changed the landscape? If women were able to have their pick of chads prior to OLD then they must certainly be able to have them now for sure. Basically, all these means is OLD made it easier for women to be hypergamous.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Easier to find a few more attractive men in her city willing to have NSA sex with her, yes. That’s hardly radical.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That could be true but maybe it is making that more apparent to other men and it is getting them jaded. A similar dynamic is happening with rich/poor ppl and classism. I was in another thread where a guy was calling anyone who makes a lot of money evil and it had a ton of upvotes...

Like it or not everyone has an ego. For some ppl a way to protect their ego is to stop playing the game. That is a big reason I think so many men are celibate too. They were raised feeling loved and special and now are having trouble accepting that they are in fact low on the totem pole.

They expect they will get rejected 9/10 times so why try? Their ego is more important than sex and I don't think that is wrong. Sex shouldn't be the most important thing.

Even I know I am affected by this. One time I was hanging out with a friend and we exchanged sex stories but he had more experiences than I did. I had sex but he had more hot stories and it made me a bit jealous. So now that is what I chase, hot stories and experiences. It is probably an ego thing.

[–]WiseMonkeyGoodMonkey0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

OLD (IMO) is not the problem. It's the spotlight on an already existing issue(s). Once it's there (online) everyone can look and poke at it. It's been memorialized possibly for the first time ever. As such I suspect the "OLD boogeyman" argument will never completely lose steam. The issues underlying the general complaints would have to somehow be resolved for that to be a real possibility.

[–]Grundleberries1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not the cause, it's definitely the catalyst though. OLD is doing to the dating dynamic as to what Facebook did to the propaganda and targeting advertisement industry.

[–]LillthOfBabylon0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

The explosion of incel and MGTOW culture is very concerning and is only going to get worse.

The solution is simple. Check if your son has a mental illness and discourage him from constantly relying on video games and social media as company. Also, make sure the son isn't a spoiled brat with entitlement problem. Entitlement seems to be a big issue within the incel community.

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I think you misjudge how easy it is for people to fall into that mindset. Mental illness and entitlement have very little to do with it. If it had been a thing when I had been growing up I can't say with any certainty I wouldn't have fallen into it. I was a late bloomer, took me a while to manage any success, and I only did so because of TRP. Given that kids now have the chance to do something about it like TRP suggests, or to take the easy route and just bitch about it, it's no surprise they're taking the easy route.

[–]LillthOfBabylon0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, I would say alot of Red pilled guys have taken the easy route as well.

"Oh! I could fix my problems OR I could wallow in self-pity and blame the world!"

Mental illness and entitlement have very little to do with it.

I think it does, because I can't imagine any sane person would want to live a life of constant victimhood. Nor do I think a sane person would go on a killing over a situation she/he placed herself/himself in.

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

The red pill isn't about wallowing in self-pity. There is admittedly a part of the 'transition' that's painful, we call it the anger phase. Ultimately though the goal is self-improvement, fixing yourself like you said, so I don't see where pity is involved at all.

I think it does, because I can't imagine any sane person would want to live a life of constant victimhood.

Most people actually do live just this kind of life. People that are willing to be held accountable for whatever ails them are extremely few and far between.

Nor do I think a sane person would go on a killing over a situation she/he placed herself/himself in.

The vast majority of incels are not murdering people. It's a pretty sizable community by now, numbering in the tens of thousands and probably more if you count those outside of reddit. I can only think of a handful of instances of incel killing sprees though, and those are bound to happen just through the law of large numbers. Crazy people exist everywhere in every demographic.

I do also think you underestimate the extent to which being an 'incel' is entirely their own fault. By the time a person reaches reproductive age they've been mostly under the influence of other people their entire lives. Some of them were not taught proper social skills by their parents, or were fed a unhealthy diet, or were born with really unfortunate facial features, or any number of thing really. That's not to say they shouldn't be doing something to alleviate their problems, but fixing a problem once it's there is many times harder than just avoiding it from the outset, and people raised in shitty environments do not have that luxury.

[–]LillthOfBabylon0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

we call it the anger phase

IDK if I would call it a phase when the same Red Pilled youtubers are still doing that for YEARS and other Red pilled guys just outright ignore the behavior.

Most people actually do live just this kind of life.

Not to the extent Red pilled and feminists do. Everyone can pity themselves, but Red pilled and feminists just don't know when to stop.
For example, most guys I know would say "That bitch broke my heart, but this is a lesson about choosing better women to fall in love with."
What I hear from Red Pilled dudes "Women being evil is normal and is society's fault."
Big difference. And yet, Red Pilled dudes expect a woman be held accountable for her actions, but yet men can't be held accountable?

Numbering in the tens of thousands and probably more if you count those outside of reddit.

That's the problem with Incels and the Red Pilled Community. We see them the most online and on reddit. When people typically say crazy posts from one group, we're going to assume the group is crazy.

I do also think you underestimate the extent to which being an 'incel' is entirely their own fault.

I know, but they need to take people's advice and stop wallowing in fucking self-pity. An incel cannot get help if he doesn't accept it. A large part of the incel community is just mentally entitled dudes.

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Big difference. And yet, Red Pilled dudes expect a woman be held accountable for her actions, but yet men can't be held accountable?

What part discourages men from being accountable? The red pill puts the entire onus on men. It says if you're not successful with women it's your own damn fault, fix it. It says if she left you, well then you should've seen it coming because of X behaviour on your part or whatever. It's nothing but accountability.

[–]LillthOfBabylon0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

The red pill puts the entire onus on men.

I've looked through Red Pilled Ideology for a while. It's essentially "If she left you, well then you should've seen it coming because all women are evil gold digging whores". It's very rare to see someone red pilled acknowledge that women aren't the root of all evil and that a man's bad love life could be mostly his fault.

[–]Bestprofilename0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

And whose fault is that?

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This isn't a situation I would assign any fault or blame to, because that would imply there's malice involved. There's not. There can be a problem without anyone being at fault for it.

I can't blame tinder or it's creators. By most accounts it was a fantastic idea, the success of the app is proof of that. Can't blame them for having an idea people liked even if it ultimately will have unforeseen negative consequences. I can't blame women for being selective either, that's their biological imperative. It's a big part of what drives human evolution and what got us here in the first place. Ultimately it's been a positive force on society. I don't exactly blame most men for not being able to live up to the currently unreasonably high standards set out for them either. If every man were an equally good catch then how good are they really?

[–]Ubermensch-10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Internet culture is often a good proxy about issues that aren’t yet mainstream

Very true.

[–]NotGoingAway1013 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

There's no taking advantage of men being out of the dating market. Men who end up figuring out the 80/5 rule in 2019 (used to be 80/20 before dating apps become more popular) end up losing motivation. The men leaving the dating market were never guys at the top, so it doesn't change anything. I'm not saying people are entitled to things, but a 7.5/10 guy should NOT have to settle down with a 3.5/10 girl. There's no balance there. It's funny because this isn't at all different to the animal kingdom.Only 1 out of 9 male lions lives to reproduce. 12-15 female lions stay with 2-3 male lions (the ones who made the cut). It's in a female organisms DNA to seek protection and affection and genespreading from 'alphas'. And if such a thing as a top male or alpha didn't exist, packs like that would've never existed. And basically 100% of the time in nature, the alpha male is the largest male. And we like to pretend that because we've had phones in our hands for 30 years or so that we are somehow past our animal instincts. I wake up everyday and have urges to fuck, eat, sleep, excel at things, and socialize. These instincts might change, but they aren't changing during my lifetime. So something as potent as a female dual mating pattern will take decades at the LEAST if not thousands of years to change. And don't think I hate women, I don't. I'd be doing the exact same thing girls are doing on dating apps if I was one. Why the fuck would I want my looksmatch when I could have a taste of greatness every weekend or weekday? I wouldn't, which is why almost every girl does it. If I could have a girl every other day of the week without any stress from scheduling and having to 'spit game', I'd fucking do it, just like the 'top males' do. We'd all do what they are doing, but the toxic thing is when we deny that this is happening and try to shame people for exposing it. It's not going to change, but to bring light to it can only educate and help people heal. No, 7.5 male, you aren't a bad guy nor ugly, you were born into a crazy time in this world.

Historians say that back around agricultures beginning they estimate that only 1 male was passing on his genes for every 17 females. The only males surviving were 2 types, ones so potent females would throw themselves at and ones who had mastered or come upon resources. This is why females developed the basic 'dual mating pattern'. They fuck the top tier genetic males to ensure they have a chance to pass on their genes, and they settle down with the resource bearing male. And obviously any open chances back then to get impregnated by a top male were taken behind the resource males back. You can't really blame females for acting like this, but the problem is that in 2019 with no need for male shelter or resources as a primary motivator, women are free to just open their phones and go straight for the top males. And because males love variety, at least males with options, they pump and dump over and over.

[–]churnthrowaway1234562 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm what world are "7.5" men settling for "3.5" women? Seriously, redpill and blackpill guys post this shit constantly, but I never actually see it happen IRL.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

He means casual sex.

[–]churnthrowaway1234561 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He said that a 7.5/10 guy should NOT have to "settle down" with a 3.5/10 girl. I never see this happen. I see a lot of average men with hot women though.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see it happen when the woman just had kids or something and she's tired, unkept or fat. I definitely don't see attractive guys walking down the street with less attractive girls let alone commit to them and wife them up.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

a 7.5/10 guy should NOT have to settle down with a 3.5/10 girl.

1) When it comes to hookups, if you are a dude in the US, your score is divided by about 3 (if not more), I guess. Because there are three (if not more) times less girls than guys on Tinder who are there for just sex.

2) Pretty girls don't have to go to OLD to have hook ups. They often are messaged by their friends' friends or even strangers in social networks.

3) For relationships, a 7.5 guy does not have to settle with a 3.5 girl.

[–]statusincorporated4 points5 points  (54 children) | Copy Link

How is it enjoying a decline if nothing much has changed?

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man15 points16 points  (50 children) | Copy Link

Things have changed. That's what the article in the OP is about. The amount of young men not having sex has tripled. If you don't see that becoming an issue eventually I don't know what to say.

[–]GridReXXit be like that4 points5 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

What has changed for women? They’re no longer having obligation sex. I don’t think women view this as the worst thing.

The truth is unless men coerce, force, or manipulate... they were never for the entire course of human history getting sex on tap from women.

When women get their way, she has sex when she wants to. And that’s usually to the detriment of the male sex drive.

[–]smokecheck19761 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Very few women have a sex drive that can match a man's. At least in terms of wanting to have sex. The truth, is once the boats in the water, everyone is usually having a good time.

Obligation sex is a nasty term, anyway. Ooh, I might have to do something I don't want to do. Yeah, well men used to do all sorts of things for women, call them obligations, that women are now left to do on their own. I'm not sure that's an improvement.

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Never said men didn’t do things they didn’t want. Difference is men like sex so much they don’t mind doing things they don’t want for even just the slither of hope of sex.

I’m saying women don’t like obligation sex. This makes men triggered I know. But it’s reality. We have different sex drives. It’s the way of the hetero world.

The closest thing women have to that — that being her desire to do things she doesn’t want to get what she really wants — is some women’s unconscious determination to secure a child/stable partner before her eggs turn to dust. And honestly once she secures that, it’s back to her not being innately driven by that.

[–]smokecheck19760 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

No, they mind. They did then and they do now. There was a time when women didn't have big daddy government at their beck and call. The way we are headed, that time will come again.

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I wish you well on your raping and pillaging journey.

[–]smokecheck19760 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not much of one for raping, perhaps some pillaging. Maybe some ravishing....

The pimp hand of the government isn't always going to be there, eventually spending will have to be reduced.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19931 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

nope it wont. women will fight tooth and nail to prevent subpar men from entering their orifices.

enjoy your lifelong loneliness and sexlessness.

[–]smokecheck19760 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You are relying on an entity that is somewhere north of $22T in debt, and is now adding more than $1T per year to that debt and accelerating. The GAO of the US estimates that the US government will exceed $100T by 2040. This is not sustainable, and the damned thing, is that it's also in the best shape in the world. Any system built upon debt eventually collapses under the weight of that debt. Economists, not the nobel prize winning ones, the ones that actually know what they are talking about, have always warned us that this is the case.

I don't know exactly when the system will collapse, only that it will. You are right, that you will fight tooth and nail, though that will at best be months after the first symptom of the collapse occurs.

If you want to know your fate, and that of your daughter, look no further than eastern Europe and Russia in the 1990s. Many of the old women died hungry in cold flats. Many of the young women either turned to prostitution or married men that they wouldn't have considered before.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

keep dreaming, hon.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

One of us has to lose. I wonder how long it will be the low empathy, risk taking group notorious for tribal warfare?

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sigh. Probably soon come. I hope I’m ded then.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well you had a good run of drinking wine, being educated and not having sex . Well have one last hurrah of raping and pillaging before the environment collapses and we’re all dead from mosquito diseases

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well you had a good run of drinking wine, being educated and not having sex .

The life !!! 😍

You forgot to add “while luxuriating on the bow of a yacht 🛥”

[–]cooktight 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

What has changed for women?

They don't get relationships. A nuclear family is far from guaranteed for any woman today. Single motherhood and/or spinsterhood is many woman's future. Even many high quality women. You can walk into any corporation in America and meet attractive intelligent women in their thirties who are are alone and will be that way into old age with sporadic unsuccessful relationships along the way.

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If those women wanted a man and truly wanted a family they could get one at any moment. Women have always and will always be able to find some man to “have a nuclear family with.”

I thought that is exactly want TRPers didn’t want. They don’t want to be the guy she settles down with because “he’s stable and fatherly.”

[–]cooktight 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

There's nothing wrong with them wanting that relatonship and nuclear family with a man they are genuinely attracted to and respect.

Its not these women's fault their expectations ended up being unobtainable.

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right. Women who aren’t severely undereducated and disadvantaged are waiting to settle down and get pregnant by men “she’s genuinely attracted to and respect.”

Problem is someone lied to these women because for most of human history most women never got that. Most women married out of convenience or arrangement or because she needed support.

The “pill” everyone needs to swallow is that what women want and what men want from women is a tall order and / or hard sell and has always been.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If those women wanted a man and truly wanted a family they could get one at any moment.

Not really. They can get a man for sex for sure no probs. However, finding a man to romance or woo you and commit is much tougher. There are only so many eligible bachelors to go around and the numbers get lower as you age. Also going by the chart more men are kinda just giving up.

If young men are giving up when their sex drive should be the highest it doesn't look good for men as they get older. Your sex drive only goes down...

If you lower your standards enough anything is possible tho.

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There’s a beta willing to commit somewhere. Those women are looking for a “stable fatherly figure” she “respected admires and is attracted to.”

On paper that sounds VERY SMART — find a man you like who’s also a great partner.

In practice those women have always noticed there weren’t a lot of men who are both. When she was 17. Or when she was 36. That man is the unicorn 🦄 with a lot of options.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not the decline TRP talked about.

"Enjoy the decline" is outdated in the US, as the amount of sluts is decreasing.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

please, it is not an issue because men are not owed sex and relationships with women. you cant and never will force half the population to copulate with you and bear your crotch spawn.

find some other mission of you life that doesnt involve women and stop being an entitled bitch.

[–]Marketing_BaboonRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

When did I ever mention being owed or forcing anyone?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She seems to project alot.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Psst. read the OP article.

[–]statusincorporated0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

pssst. I did. not much has changed...beyond more guys being poor and unmarried now and that's it.

[–]Sigma19790 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Birth rates are going to plummet. The government is going to have a huge problem when their tax base plummets and they can't pay social security, medicare, military, etc because there aren't enough young people to replace the old people who left the workforce.

[–]MrShakedown10 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well every now and then we have a desperate guy who wants to make things equal...with firearms.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I always wondered why some countries have such extreme laws to control the population. I realised it's because the government has no faith that it's own people will do the right thing. If you leave women to unrestrain their sexuality, you get single motherhood destabilizing society. If men unrestrain theirs, you get polygamy (which women are okay with culturally speaking, look at Africa and the middle East) but a bunch of men without wives.

Either way, we made a compromise: monogamy and marriage. That seems to be collapsing, though. What I find strange is how similar this sexlessness among men leads to polygamy anyway as soft harems are now developing among top tier men. Almost as if either sex naturally gravitates towards polygamy when their sexual strategy has no restraint. The difference is when men are in charge, they force men to marry the women they sleep with. Look at South Africa and the Middle East for examples.

[–]MrShakedown10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

As someone who lives on the other side of The Pond, I think it's related with WW2 and toll it took on population of men ? I think we had enough shooting for next 100-120 years, at least most of the countries here in Europe.

> I realised it's because the government has no faith that it's own people will do the right thing

I could say the opposite, you don't want to give up on guns as you don't have faith in your government, so it's better to keep that option just in case.

> Either way, we made a compromise: monogamy and marriage. That seems to be collapsing, though. What I find strange is how similar this sexlessness among men leads to polygamy anyway as soft harems are now developing among top tier men. Almost as if either sex naturally gravitates towards polygamy when their sexual strategy has no restraint. The difference is when men are in charge, they force men to marry the women they sleep with. Look at South Africa and the Middle East for examples.

Well nothing I can oppose, I guess. Money, power and status. You can fuck underage girls if you have enough of these three and get away with it. Kinda sad, but true.

[–]red_matrix12 points13 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Online dating is pretty efficient at weeding out the “undesirables”.

[–]Nodoxxintoxin8 points9 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I think online dating weeds out a lot of desirables as well. I PREFER taller guys, but dated a guy an inch shorter. I PREFER guys my age, but have dated a bit older. Those are guys who might not have passed an online dating filter.

The sad reality of online dating is that everything about attraction can’t quantified.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I PREFER taller guys, but dated a guy an inch shorter.

Given the sheer number of tall men on Tinder/etc., why didn't you just hold out for one?

[–]Nodoxxintoxin0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I met him IN REAL LIFE, IN PERSON. That’s my whole point. You can’t just put in a series of things you might find attractive and expect your computer to spit out a potential mate. Not only will the perfect person not magically appear, but some people will be needlessly eliminated .

We all have preferences, we are lying if we say we don’t, but we all also have the capacity to be bowled over by someone completely outside of our norms.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Given the cited facts in the OP, it is clear that women are doing this far less than before.

[–]Nodoxxintoxin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I never said they weren’t.

[–]goldmedalflower0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why emphasize the prefer part?

[–]Nodoxxintoxin2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because if you put a questionnaire in front of me listing all the things I want in a man, I’d say (or would have said when I was younger) I want a guy who is two years older, 4” taller, lanky, dark hair, B.A., good job, likes dogs....I could go on. I can think of a lot of both physical and social characteristics I prefer. Online dating encourages people, women especially, to shop for a relationship like a grocery list of these preferences, filtering out lots of people in the process.

In reality people often find themselves wildly attracted to people who don’t tick all their boxes. Chemistry, charisma or even just incredible physical attraction (like a really handsome, short, stocky blond) can throw us surprises.

Preferences are just that, not requirements. I prefer lots of things in a partner, very few things are requirements.

[–]goldmedalflower1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The problem is the guy falls into the "reluctantly settled for" category and no guy wants that

[–]Nodoxxintoxin2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely not, that’s just parroting some stupid notion. I said WILDLY attracted to. You didn’t process a single word I said.

I like tall, thin men. If I was inputting data to sort through the “perfect man” I’d input I want a 6’ man. But the short guy, stocky guy I dated was incredibly cute, gorgeous blue eyes, I was incredibly attracted to him. There was nothing reluctant about my attraction to him.

That’s why online dating is no substitute for meeting people irl

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

If by that you mean ugly and/or fat guys then yes.

[–]red_matrix13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Even normal looking men are being ignored. It’s going to get much worse.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not yet my friend, but wait more 20 years or so, by then 50% of the male population will be sexless.

[–]red_matrix2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's already begun...

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Everyone knows the best of the best is out there, they are just trying to find those people through their phones now

[–]ScaredIllustratorPill Man41 points42 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

chad and tyrone

[–]Emervila1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

fpbp

[–]trele_morele0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't forget Muhammad and Dimitri

[–]analt223No Pill37 points38 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

A smaller amount of men. Most in their own age group. Its never been a better time to be a top tier man....for now at least

Honestly this entire subreddit is pretty much irrelevant now. Men deem a lot more women fuckable than women deem men. This causes the entire world to be the way that it is (if you want to use the word patriarchy, fine), since something like 97% of people are heterosexual and 99.7% are cis gendered fwiw.

[–]statusincorporated3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men deem a lot more women fuckable than women deem men. This causes the entire world to be the way that it is (if you want to use the word patriarchy, fine),

The force is strong in you, young Skywalker.

[–]kkohl988 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Top tier men of course.

[–]Lonny_zone8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have lived with my roommate for two years now. In that span of time I’ve fucked one girl and fielded offers from maybe three while he has fucked 10+ girls and fielded offers from dozens.

Low SMV is what it is; High SMV always wins.

[–]VirginPrideWorldWide15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Few men are having sex with multiple women, some men are not having sex while other men are having more sex than ever before. This trend is supported by data.

Data was drawn to assess trends in sexual behavior from the 2002 and 2011–2013 National Survey of Family Growth, a US household survey focusing on sexual and reproductive health. Researchers found that compared to 2002, men overall had the same number of partners in 2013. However, the top 20% of men had a 25% increase in sexual partners. The top 5% of men had an even more dramatic 38% increase in the number of sexual partners. Thus while the amount of male sex that was had was unchanged, more of the sex was consolidated into extra sex for the top 5-20% of men.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They’re having sex with the top 20% of men. It’s not so much 1:1, it’s that multiple women are trying to (and succeeding) in fucking the same guy.

[–]jkonrad 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

The guys who are out doing shit, outside, which almost necessarily entails some sort of social life.

The ones spending lots of time indoors in front of screens are having less sex.

I would bet there’s a correlation between screen time and n-count, over time.

[–]TrueReligionGenesLooxist5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ironically the guys that have trouble getting laid are the ones that put high amounts of effort into lifting and 'hobbies'. They are also doing more approaching, whereas the sexually successful guys are using dating apps. It's backwards but it's the way it is.

[–]The_Madmans_Reign18M3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

An attractive guy who just goes along with the flow, speaking when spoken to, will have much more success than an average looking guy ready to talk about his hobbies/lifting and constantly make approaches. It’s hilarious that the terpers will cope by calling the passive man “stoic.”

[–]TrueReligionGenesLooxist5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The beauty of having looks, no pun intended, is that there's no pressure to prove anything, your worth is established and irrefutable.

[–]PrehistoricPrincessNothing is sexier than mutual empathy and respect6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are they dating older men now that young men aren't good enough anymore?

No. If I'm being honest, I think a big problem is technology (I know, super cliche). I'm a big fan of tech myself, but I never let it take over my social life, etc. Plenty of kids over the past couple decades have been raised on technology more than around other people. This makes for socially inept/awkward young adults; not to mention less physically fit. So what we have at this point is a very large pool of fat, awkward young men--and a smaller pool of average-sized/fit young men with decent social skills. This isn't how the world used to be. But yeah, those young men are scoring with women because they're not... awkward and fat. To be blunt.

Bonus questions for women: If you were/are single, what would be your dating strategy? What age gap would you accept?

I'm not single, but I always dated around my age. I'm 25. My fiancee just turned 26. My ex before him was 2 years older than me. I was never attracted to older men. I don't know any girls who are/were. If I were single, the age range I'd accept is probably between 24-29.

[–]-OpportunityCostI don't care about your problems6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Anyone who thinks that Chad is not real is delusional. There are plenty of top tier guys who are fucking a different girl 4-5 nights a week. Female celibacy is also increasing just not nearly at the same rate as men.

[–]AutoModeratorBiased Against Humans[M] 4 points5 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

Attention!

  • You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.

  • For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.

  • If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.

  • OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]69XxXCuckboyXxX690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wish blackpill hit the global mainstream I want to watch the whole civilzation burn: mass shootings because of receding hairline, nuking because of being too short, genocides cuz no defined jawline/hunter eyes. Internet only speeds this up.

[–]Xemnas810 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck this entire neoliberal ideology.

We have a homelessness epidemic and privileged men and women can't see past their dicks/clits. We are overpopulated (inb4 Malthusian), the average couple can't afford kids and the average woman won't have casual sex with the average man. Emphasis on "Can't afford." What's done is done. Change things for the better, help your community, or be a selfish Reaganite prick and go fuck yourselves.

[–]pngmafia97my type is chadcucks-1 points0 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

What range of SMV percentile men would you all say are at a top 10 American uni?

The idea that only top 20% of men are fucking is so dissonant to me. Literally everyone on my campus is fucking like rabbits. Some very, very, VERY beat looking guys. Like guys I would personally never touch and consider 4/10 are getting it in regularly.

[–]Sticky1Brick18 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most of the guys who aren't getting laid you probably don't even see at all because they are in their rooms all day and don't participate in mixed-gender spaces for the most part. And if you are a woman you are most likely underestimating the attractiveness of these "4/10" guys.

[–]statusincorporated6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

that's not it. the idea is that the top 20% monopolize the casual sex market to the tune of taking 80% of it for themselves. that still leaves 20% of the casual sex to everyone else.

and eh...

...unless you know EVERYONE on your campus, I'm not sure how you'd even know.

there are likely huge social scenes that are invisible to you

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And yet the number of celibate men as tripled. Clearly you're not seeing reality.

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Dang I shoulda gone to ur school. OTOH I imagine with those numbers you dont have an engineering program there

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

May I go to your university?

[–]pngmafia97my type is chadcucks0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

UPenn :)

[–]NotGoingAway1014 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you people just starting to undestand the phenomenon of what's going on? What's happening is dating apps have completely changed the dating market. These women aren't fucking old men. The men they are fucking are 18-35 year olds in their primes who are considered the top 3% in their cities. Might sound like a small number, but on dating apps 3% of males in a city like Chicago is a huge number, more than enough guys to have flings with each girl. Even a 4/10 girl with cellulite can essentially wait her turn for one of these guys, which for most girls in my social circle according to them is every single weekend. So if that's what a 4/10 girl is doing with her time, imagine the options for actually attractive women. There's no point for her to 'settle' for a 7/10 good guy when she can fuck a 8.5/10 badboy twice a week. And you could pretend this isn't happening, but this is almost every single girl I know who isn't married, they all have boyfriends and every week or two they cheat. Some of them have even tried to cheat with me.

These articles where people act like it's unheard of or doesn't make sense clearly isn't a male who dates in 2019. And another unspoken thing is girls having sugar daddies on dating apps. I know a girl who hangs out with a near 60 year old guy, he buys her tons of stuff, etc. Nothing unheard of, but she says she met him on the dating app. These girls are getting all their needs from the dating app, there's almost no need for an actual relationship for them anymore.

[–]imjgaltstill8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Chad is drowning in pussy

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too19 points20 points  (40 children) | Copy Link

I have to wonder at this point : did recent incarnations of the abrahamic religions know that monogamy was necessary for a stable society? Like, who figured it out, because even they had polygamy at first. Top men get all the women. Great for me, terrible for most men and women, who either get no sex or, in the case of women, get alpha widowed.

[–]Daffan16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is actually a really common question that people think about a lot. It's harder to control your male populace when they are unruly (no partner/satisfaction)

[–]is_done0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

slaves were often castrated

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Practically every civilization that fell apart from within, fell apart because of this.

[–]AI_WAIFUtake the weebpill8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think so. As far as I can tell, the explanations for what happens when you deviate from monogamy are along the lines of "gods wrath will be unleashed upon the world and it'll be really bad". Rather, I suspect what happened was that every society that dropped monogamy was overun with angry young men with nothing better to do than to burn everything to the ground. As a result, religions evolved to enforce monogamy, along with mechanisms to keep people from questioning the policy.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rather, I suspect what happened was that every society that dropped monogamy was overun with angry young men with nothing better to do than to burn everything to the ground.

In other words, God's wrath was unleashed upon the world and it was really bad.

[–]oneprettycoolcat24 points25 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

It's not terrible for women. Women prefer being part of a highly attractive man's harem over being around a normal man.

[–]oftheinfinite 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Apparently the women in my friends' social circle make recommendations to their girlfriends and pass men around. These are Arab women in the local Western SMP, and some of these men include non-Arab/Muslim men. My friend gets passed around regularly and says its common. What'll make you gulp and loosen your collar is that women will tell others how your dick isn't big and how you can't get hard, and they spread the 'stats' around.

[–]oneprettycoolcat26 points27 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You mean women will dehumanize men? Tell me it ain't so.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Welcome to the west.

[–]darkmoon0914 points15 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

It's true. The Chads that I know, have multiple baby mamas and the women sort of just reluctantly accept that Chad is going to be getting ass on the side as well as her...she'd rather not have it that way but come to grudgingly accept that he's just not going to be monogamous but as long as he gives her at least some attention then they'll put up with it.

What women absolutely cannot stand though is a beta, no matter how loyal he is. If anything his devotion to her repulses her because its a sign of him being lower on the male sexual hierarchy if he's willing to wife up the first bitch who gives him the slightest bit of attention.

Sad state of affairs. I really hope the world burns. Oh wait, it literally is 😄

[–]statusincorporated5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

um....the more educated and high quality a woman is, the less likely it is that she's a single mother.

so, these 'Chads' you're talking about obviously aren't getting the cream of the crop

[–]darkmoon098 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Actually, you're wrong...these same guys who have mutiple baby mamas receive attraction from your so called "high quality" women. One guy I know with mutiple kids and works manual labor fucked a good looking educated scientist MILF in her car. I'm not kdding you.

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is she his “baby momma.”

Probably not. The women who ended up as baby mamas are probably more close in line to his own socioeconomic status.

Non-disadvantaged women don’t end up “baby mamas.”

That said they May choose to have a child at 37 if they’re still single. However that child statistically will have a much better life than most kids because highly educated single women with a lot of disposable income and who actually plan for their kids make great parents. Who knew.

[–]statusincorporated0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Holy shit a younger man fucked an older woman? WHOAAAAAAAAAA.

Put on your thinking cap young one and reveal to yourself why this only proves my point, not yours.

[–]shonenhikada4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you go on bodybuilding.com there are plenty of attractive, well in shape men with mental problems a(who also degrade and talk crap about women) and yet are in relationships and gets dates with high quality female physicians, lawyers etc.

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

You think men give a flying fuck about some girl's master's degree?

[–]statusincorporated0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes. As confirmed by assortative mating...

[–]Impressive_Client2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

You just made all that up. You’re hilarious man.

[–]darkmoon090 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I really didn't. Why are you so in denial that these things happen?

[–]Impressive_Client0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Because you make dumb generalizations like “what women can’t stand is...”

How many women have you even dated? Had relationships with?

You are just parroting niceguy talking points. But it’s garbage.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not a generalization. Maybe you haven't seen the world for what it is?

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women choose the harem but the harem doesn't always choose them - thus the pump and dump.

[–]BABYFACELOSER3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Middle eastern people figured that out 6000 years ago, while nordic people were living like apes in tribes, now that nordic people have control and are controlling and influencing the world, they brought this ape tribe mentality to most of the world, and criticize civilized culture from the middle east at every chance they get.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is older than all religions, the concept of monogamous relationships is older than humanity itself.

Some kinds of chimps still behave in a similar way in order to become less unruly.

[–]TheLongerCon2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Islam is not explicitly monogamous.

[–]The_Madmans_Reign18M0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But there is a maximum of four wives.

[–]TheLongerCon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That still produces wild variances in mating success.

[–]geyges🐇5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL, well when alternative is slaughter and rape, people figure it out pretty quick.

[–]ffbtaw23 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Cultural evolution, monogamous societies survived/thrived.

[–]Xemnas810 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes and no, you aren't the first to contemplate this, it's a reactionary meme at this point

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

had it not been for abrahamic cults of the mighty micropenis, most men would have never seen a coochie.

in other words, when men feel entitled to sex with unwilling women, they form a cult and call it a religion.

[–]GridReXXit be like that3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The most attractive guys to her.

[–]Zero91943 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Many young women are not having sex either. It just isn’t talked about as much because of the stigma with women having sex.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/573949/

Notice how it says millennials instead of millennial men

[–]LillthOfBabylon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But his link showed the difference between men and women. Women are still having more sex than men. It's just with older guys.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

30% of men and 18% of women in the study reported being celibate.

That means 82% of women and 70% of men are fucking each other. A similar ratio — more women and fewer men — has probably been consistent for most of history — men have consistently reported more partners than women.

IMO decreased sex drive from obesity and lower T rates have a lot to do with it, as does the millennial generation being stuck between the expectations of the past and the reality of today.

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

IMO decreased sex drive from obesity and lower T

The amount of porn most men (especially the single ones )watch proves this wrong .

the millennial generation being stuck between the expectations of the past and the reality of today.

True .

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Ok but both of those conditions do lower sex drive. I’m not making that up, ask a doctor if you don’t believe me. It doesn’t totally kill it but it does decrease it.

Honestly I don’t think porn consumption is a sign of drive as much as it’s a sign of seeking variety, escape, etc.

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

9/10 times i watch porn is to get rid of the random boners am getting .

The 1/10 is because somebody on 4chan posted porn in a non porn thread .

I feel like my sex drive is the same. As it qould be if i was sexually active .

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’ll take your word for it.

But are you obese and sedentary? That’s what I mean. If yes you’d have a higher sex drive if you were in shape and worked out as your T levels would be boosted.

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am overweight but i have a large build (kind of like hannibal buress) i run about 2 miles a dayor ride my bicycle 4 miles . I also lift weights twice a week . And on the weekend i ride about 10- moles of cycling

My hobbies are sedentary but i try to stay fit.

[–]darkmoon099 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Those women are fucking the top tier good looking chads. It's the 80/20 rule on full display but watch all these bloops and women still hamster away some explanation as to why it ain't so.

[–]NegativeCollisionBlackpilled Mutilated oxygen Freak and monster5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The same top 20% of men, the bottom 80% of men rot and die alone

[–]geyges🐇16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Bonus questions for women: If you were/are single, what would be your dating strategy?

Ok here's the strategy. Find attractive dude, look him in the eye and say "Hi.". If he's not trying to fuck you after talking to you for 5 minutes, you're ugly as fuck.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Clever come back.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some men are just getting way more sex

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

top 20%

[–]flyinghorse12 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I'm still dating and sleeping around with 20 something women and I'm not anything special. I'm 33 years old, in decent shape, work as a teacher, can hold a conversation, lives abroad etc. This whole thing where you're supposed to be elite to have sex is simply not true.

[–]Xemnas813 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

live abroad

[–]flyinghorse11 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Italy, UK, Vietnam were all fine for dating.

[–]Xemnas810 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

UK? I'm IN UK. Granted, I am a few weeks away from homelessness, and I do suspect hypergamy is less problematic here in large part because gym culture is more niche rather than normative.

Italy is far less prudish though also more rationally feminist (US is still essentially prudish) and Vietnam is quasi-patriarchal still

[–]flyinghorse10 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I was in the midlands and I loved it. Birmingham and Nottingham have great dating scenes. Italy the online dating isn't that big though. In Nottingham it would take a month of swiping each day to run out of new people. Milan, a city 4 times the size, you will run out in 10 days.

[–]Xemnas810 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I live in neither but not too far away and have friends who went to these unis, sounds promising

[–]flyinghorse11 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Nottingham was probably best. Theres 2 good unis there and for some reason at uni of notts the women out number men - its something like 60/40 split.

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Second tier cities always have better dating scenes. Seattle is better than San Francisco and it seems Nottingham is better than London.

[–]flyinghorse10 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Plus 4 pound pints and not 7 pound pints

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The little towns in northern Alberta were great for cheap beer and lonely women.

[–]SDW1372 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Those young women are fucking young non-celibate attractive dudes, for the most part.

[–]washington_breadstixM'gtow10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some of them are dating older men, but most of them are hooking up with Chads in a "soft harem" situation where one Chad is banging several women and having all those women vying for his attention/commitment while the men below the 80/20 line are getting basically nothing.

[–]loke2dabrainonthexans ☠6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Among that 20% of men who aren't having sex, many aren't because they don't feel any drive to. I know a couple of guys like this.

Conventionally attractive (or at least I think so) young guys who get girls crushing on them but dont act on it. They'd rather focus on other things like becoming the best at fortnite.

[–]CainPrice9 points10 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Older men. I dated 20s in my 30s. Now I'm nearly 40 and my girlfriend is barely 30.

Hot young guys are fun for casual, but usually shit for relationships because their shit's not together and they have no reason for it to be because lots of women want to fuck them.

Older guys who have their shit together are desirable for relationships and can usually string women along for casual by dangling the relationship carrot.

If you are young and don't have your shit together, and you're not good-looking, then you're not good for casual or for relationships. Get better.

[–]reluctantly_red20 points21 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Guys always date down a few years but there is no stampede of women toward old guys. Women fuck hot guys regardless of age. However more young guys are hot. There's attrition. Most hot guys don't stay hot.

[–]CainPrice10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's an interesting phenomenon. A 24 year old woman will hook up with a 24 year hold hottie for casual, then get sick of the assholes and the bars and Tinder and decide she wants a boyfriend. She won't flock to an old guy, but she'll start looking more seriously at those dating profiles for 29 year old guys, get a message from a 32 year old, be about to delete it, but his picture will look good so she goes out with him.

Generally, a guy isn't "old" to a girl in her mid to late 20s until he's in his 40s. Once you're in your 40s, women in their 20s stop dating you on principle and you start dating women in their 30s.

[–]reluctantly_red4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's about right. Can't imagine a woman younger than late 30s being interested in my 55 year old ass.

[–]the-lone-squidNot the edible squid1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

however more young guys are hot

That used to be the case. But have you looked around at all the xbox bodies lately?

It's not that older guys are hot, but the bar has been lowered so far. Pretty much just don't be fat and you're gonna get laid

[–]CMOAN_MAYNE0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is it.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, they are both increasingly Chad-sharing or dating older, more established men, probably much more of the former than the latter. Many more young millennial women seem willing to be plated compared to women in my generation. Dating apps have helped to increase the prevalence of this.

[–]beyond98I've took both pills4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would see Chad-sharing more possible for young women (late teens to 25-30 years). I see dating older men as an indicator of hypergamous women who mainly wants a man to cost her standard of living, but I think Chad-sharing is more generalized than dating older men, at least for people of my age (early 20s)

[–]Xemnas810 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

As the economy worsens, lower IQ and lower SES but higher SMV women will opt for the latter further,

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

"Chad-sharing" like the term. Seeing a rent-a-Chad business opportunity.

[–]ffbtaw23 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You can call it Tinder

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL -- true that!

[–]celincelinNeeds to be taught not to rape0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Uber Chad.

[–]Reisiluu 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

Bonus questions for women: If you were/are single, what would be your dating strategy? What age gap would you accept?

Flirt with everyone and pick the best one who responds to it. I would accept 0-5 years older than me.

A lot of these statistics don't take into account that women fuck and marry slightly older men. The 28 year old woman having sex with a 31 year old husband will show up in the statistic if the cutoff is 30 years old, but her husband will not.

[–]reluctantly_red1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

A 30 year old incel is not going to magically become marriage material when he turns 31.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

But if he keeps trying and going on dates instead of complaining on the internet he might find someone by 31.

[–]_derekhawkins0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes cause women can sense the complaining he does on the internet holy fuck what a retarded take

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Good thing that's not what I said.

[–]_derekhawkins0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So please enlighten me by what you meant by “if he tries harder(LOL) and doesn’t complain on the internet, maybe he wouldn’t be incel by 31”

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean if he only complains on the internet about how there's no hope.

[–]smokecheck19761 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

On-Line-Dating has completely distorted human interactions. You either get bombarded with messages and develop an outsized ego with unrealistic expectations or you get completely ignored no matter what.

Seriously, it's gotten genuinely hard to just meet people any more. People don't gather any more.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men faced hell and high water when people did gather. Then they fled online in search of more opportunities than their local shithole.

And now we have a shithole planet.

[–]69XxXCuckboyXxX691 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Top 5% good looking men.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a combination of most women dating men who are older than them by 2-3 years and some young men dating multiple women.

[–]LillthOfBabylon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you were/are single, what would be your dating strategy? What age gap would you accept?

Look really pretty and socialize with nerdy dudes that share my interests.

What age gap would you accept?

3 years younger than me to 7 years old than me.

[–]pnadlerlaw8 points9 points  (84 children) | Copy Link

Men who aren’t lazy, which is apparently less than 20% of all heterosexual men?

Give a fuck about what you eat. Give a fuck about hitting the gym every day and being reasonably active. Give a fuck about how you dress. Give a fuck about where you spend your time and making some money.

Boom, you’re already in the top 20% easily.

80% of guys just sit there all like, “Oh, a woman will just love me for my personality ... preferably a cute and attractive women ... oh, and she has to be a virgin, and cook and clean, and blah blah blah”

And then they’re like, “Why I haz no sex?” 😱

You know how women who don’t give a fuck about their weight and how they dress look to men? The way most men who do the exact same thing look to women. It’s just that way more men behave that way than women do. So, no shit you find people who give two fucks about taking care of themselves not automatically disqualified as a potential sexual partner.

[–]Daffan14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What your saying doesn't even mean anything because that 20% will always be 20%, all your doing is just rotating the people out not actually fixing the problem. Basically a "I have mine fuck you" approach.

[–]statusincorporated13 points14 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

This is bullshit 'bootstrap laddy' tripe.

The fact is that eating a healthy diet is expensive and difficult or monotonous, going to the gym is difficult, being active while working full-time is difficult, having good style can be expensive and is another chore, and obviously making decent money (six figures these days) is difficult.

So no, it's not 'easy' and it's pretty shitty to suggest it is --- this is coming from someone who did all that stuff. It wasn't easy, I didn't enjoy starting the journey, and there were many dark depressing days on the road.

And the flipside is that women can pretty much do nothing and be wanted. So no, it's not about 'oh women make all this effort men don't notice.' Fuck no they don't. Go look at the average female OLD profile. They're shit and they all say the same douchey nonsense shit and mostly have the same stupid selfies and MISLEADING weight stats/pics. Go look at the OLD experiments to see just how much attention women get vs. men. even the MOST attractive men are BEAT by the least attractive women.

[–]pnadlerlaw1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Go into a bar IRL. Get off OLD.

Women who don’t diet and hit the gym don’t have anything on women who do. Maybe they do for guys who don’t give a shit one way or another. But, if you’ve busted for ass 6-7 days a week to be where you are on the totem pole, I’m sorry, a girl can take her emotional clit stroking and enjoy it with another guy.

Make a “dating site” with no pictures, height, weight and verified income and net worth stats, and then let’s discuss how “Men outperform women on OLD.” When the only basis you have are pictures, and if you take shirtless selfies, you automatically disqualify yourself to women who want to feel like they’re just looking for a relationship or not the kind of girl who is interested in casual sex or simply doesn’t feel like you would pick her anyway, then no shit you’re going to underperform women, who are selected by men (who are more optimistic and confident in relation to women), more open to casual sex, less sexually inhibited, and less inclined to automatically disqualify a woman for posting up pictures basically sexually advertising herself.

It’s a deck that’s stacked against men.

Go to a bar IRL. Get away from OLD.

[–]statusincorporated7 points8 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Women who don’t diet and hit the gym don’t have anything on women who do

Okay. They have way more than even the most attractive guy. That's the point.

But, if you’ve busted for ass 6-7 days a week to be where you are on the totem pole, I’m sorry, a girl can take her emotional clit stroking and enjoy it with another guy.

"Yeah, if you're a high value man, you can afford to be picky."

Okay....you're not saying anything useful.

When the only basis you have are pictures, and if you take shirtless selfies,

Wrong. Shirtless selfies work across the board.

https://www.tinderseduction.com/best-tinder-pictures-for-more-profile-matches/

It’s a deck that’s stacked against men.

All dating is a deck stacked against men outside the top men.

[–]pnadlerlaw0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Shirtless selfies, unless you take them well and tastefully, disqualify you to A LOT of women. They automatically think, “this guy isn’t serious or mature, just wants sex, etc.” It’s a choice and a tightrope as a guy. Same thing for women, but a lot less men on Tinder are going to harshly judge women for sexing themselves up compared to how many women will negatively judge a guy for a shirtless selfie.

All that aside, not all of dating is stacked against men. Men aren’t the ones taking “pole dance” for exercise, dying to get married, spending hours in front of the mirror priming themselves up before they walk out the door (because you never know which guy may see you).

If that’s all it takes to be on top as a guy, then why is it being met with so much resistance and backlash? Fuck, just do it and enjoy being on top. Or don’t do it and enjoy not putting in the time and effort. But don’t not do it and then complain about not enjoying the benefits of being on top without putting in the time and effort.

[–]statusincorporated2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Shirtless selfies, unless you take them well and tastefully, disqualify you to A LOT of women

Any pic that is shitty will disqualify you to a lot of women. So you pretty much agree that a good shirtless pic does work, just like any other good pic.

Same thing for women

lmfao. NO DUDE. NO. a woman can take the dumbest, most retarded pic and guys will blitz her DMs. what are you not getting?

Men aren’t the ones

Most women aren't, either, so idkwtf this point is on about.

If that’s all it takes to be on top as a guy, then why is it being met with so much resistance and backlash?

Did you even read my first response to you? What it takes is A. LOT. and is unfeasible for most people, esp if they are starting later like > 30 y/o.

But don’t not do it and then complain about not enjoying the benefits of being on top without putting in the time and effort.

Huh?

Maybe it's just a shitty situation and market dynamic that deserves the complaints. Ever think of that, genius?

[–]pnadlerlaw1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I guess more people need to voice their complaints to the Bureau of Reproductive Equality.

It takes A LOT for men to take a “tasteful” (even if the photography is otherwise amazing) shirtless selfie that won’t make a girl feel negative about herself for swiping right. That’s not the case for girls, but that’s because men don’t negatively judge themselves for being interested in a girl that’s sexually advertising herself (as often as girls negatively judge themselves for being interested in a guy sexually advertising himself).

If you compare he effort made and time spent by women from 16-23 on “priming” for men, compared to the amount of time and effort men make “priming” for women, its hands down day and night women who take the cake by a long shot.

It’s “unfeasible” if they’ve spent a lifetime pissing away their earning potential and economic opportunities, and ruining their body.

Otherwise, if the average boy starts at 14-15, because he has a father or older brother to guide him, it’s not at all “unfeasible.” It’s easy. Fitness is a lifestyle and great life long habit to form. A basic professional/classy fashion sense (nothing crazy) is also very easy to emulate and develop as your own. Earning potential is something you can work on in school (or a trade school). You have to want it. If you don’t want it, you won’t fight for it every day. You won’t push yourself. Nobody else can push you.

That’s the difference. That’s the only difference. But for as long as you have that desire to push yourself and make no excuses, the ONLY “difficult” thing is disposable income. You can’t control market forces and local economics, and it’s an uphill battle if you have no starting capital. But it’s not “unfeasible.”

[–]statusincorporated3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

but that’s because men

No dude. It's because men are thirsty and will rapidly lower their standards if it means getting sex.

If you compare he effort made and time spent by women from 16-23 on “priming” for men, compared to the amount of time and effort men make “priming” for women, its hands down day and night women who take the cake by a long shot.

Based on what, ace? That among younger people especially WOMEN have higher rates of overweight and obesity? What?

It’s “unfeasible” if they’ve spent a lifetime pissing away their earning potential and economic opportunities, and ruining their body.

K, so yes unfeasible for the majority of men. Thanks.

Otherwise, if

...you start on third base, getting to home isn't so hard. Whooooaaaaaa, REALLY?

You have to want it. If you don’t want it, you won’t fight for it every day. You won’t push yourself. Nobody else can push you.

I'm someone who has done everything you say to do, and it does reap you immense returns. But as someone who had to undo a lifetime of bad habits in every sector at age 25...I am going to tell you right now that I'm on the fence about whether I'd do it again.

And this is enjoying the real rewards.

Is casual sex THAT great?

Is sleeping with 'hawt' women THAT great?

Literally it's like 51% worth it 49% meh not really.

The ROI is fucking retarded.

[–]pnadlerlaw0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You don’t do it for the ROI.

You do it for security. I’m married. My wife and I are free to flirt and get attention from other people. No sex, just flirting. I still flirt with women. I love to flirt. Why? It’s clearly not the sex. I’m not taking it there with these women. It’s the security of know that “if you wanted to, you could.”

That completely changes the dynamic of your relationship, as well as every other aspect of your life. That’s hands down better than sex.

[–]statusincorporated5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

LMFAO you should always do things based on cost/benefit.

if you have to do all that shit for security, then it's just FEAR based.

and i'm sorry, dude...flirting != if you wanted to, you could fuck. that's true for WOMEN. not men.

women innocently flirt with guys all the time. shit, knowing that you're married may be the only reason they flirt with you.

and I'm sticking to what I said...

...there's improvement, but you just see a lot of women for what they are --- value takers. kind of like how most women see most men. so you're still stuck with a rather limited pool of people you feel genuine attraction toward, because you've leveled up.

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you for talking sense. No idea wtf that person you replied to was on about. They have no clue about anything. Gym work is hard for a guys, especially if you're working or studying full time. Meanwhile women can do absolutely no exercise, they can eat like shit and still get laid regularly. Even guys who do work out religiously, there's no guarantee they even do get laid. The situations just don't compare.

[–]statusincorporated0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm here for you bro. I've gotten a top 1% body and career (hmu for proof in DMs), and I know the struggle.

It's NOT EASY.

It's not something I would ever EVER fault a man for not doing.

[–]geyges🐇17 points18 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Give a fuck about what you eat. Give a fuck about hitting the gym every day and being reasonably active. Give a fuck about how you dress. Give a fuck about where you spend your time and making some money.

I know a few guys personally like that in college, foodies, good shape, good looks, dress fashionably. Single. Even if you do all that shit, its not enough.

I know a chubby slutty slobs that get laid on the regular because.... well because of big old vagina between their legs.

[–]praisethesun799Not actually a fag 😉2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're probably just overestimating their looks or downplaying some personality problems they have . Every decent looking guy I know who has his shit together is either dating or having occasional hookups between girlfriends

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Again with the bullshit explanations. It's so easy BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[–]praisethesun799Not actually a fag 😉0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh yeah bullshit explanation lol keep your hamster spinning man

Easy ? It kind of is really, most average outgoing men aren't the typical reddit introverted boring engineer lol , for THAT kind of guy, with what they know of women's taste in men, getting laid is tough sure

[–]Impressive_Client0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Then he must suck in other ways. That’s what you’d call a volcel.

[–]FatChopSticks2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I know men are supposed to pull them up by their own bootstraps, but your attitude towards men is the general attitude held by most of society, which incidentally put men in the position they are in now, that anything bad that happens to them is their own fault and anyone who succeeds is because they weren’t lazy.

[–]Impressive_Client0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Men are supposed to compete. In sports, in video games, in life, and in love.

Buncha pansy ass whiny losers who can’t look in mirror and realize they are the masters of their own destinies.

Are some people born with advantages or disadvantages? Yes, of course. But anyone (except the severely handicapped) can compensate for those disadvantages with some effort and perseverance.

I know this because I did it. I was a chubby, buck toothed, freckle faced, uncoordinated dork of herculean proportions.

Every night I went to bed upset because I couldn’t get the girls I wanted. But instead of giving up, I fought to improve the aspects of myself that I could. And it fucking worked!

[–]FatChopSticks0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think we just solved the Male Loneliness Epidemic!

[–]Impressive_Client1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Listen, obviously there are many things that are not a person’s fault as to why they can’t get women. Nobody disputes that.

But what is a person’s fault, is how little effort they make to overcome whatever disadvantages they were cursed with.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Let them eat cake bro"

[–]geyges🐇1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah, its mostly the game. If you're 8/10 guy lookswise, your game better be 9/10 if you want to snag your looksmatch. If your game is 5/10 YOU ARE FUCKED; even 6/10 girls will be like: "Meh..he's ok I guess"

[–]ModernMedia8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Does a dichotomy between daily gym rat and unwashed neet really seem that convincing to you? There is some fairly blant truth to this, but this very extreme black and white between zero effort and making it your life's mission to appeal to women just seems very immature to me

[–]pnadlerlaw2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Making it your life’s mission?

Going to the gym, eating healthy, being active, dressing well, making an above average amount of money ... are these things that constitute “making it your life’s mission ... to appeal to women”?

Guess what, it’s your life mission to do a lot of things. Having enough money in the bank to make rent, your mortgage payments, payroll, etc., is one of them. Being healthy and not having avoidable heart surgery in your 40s or 50s is probably not immature. Neither is dressing in a way that lets people respect you and feel more comfortable and inclined to socialize with you. Neither is having spare disposable income.

But if your knee-jerk response to simply bettering yourself is, “that’s immature,” well, not much more to say, I’m afraid. That comment really says it all.

I guess women are attracted to “immature” men, what can I say?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Not this bull. It "easy" until we try it and it doesn't work. Then you give some bullish explanation why we didn't try hard enough. "Just go to the gym and dress nice bro". Ignore a previous thread where people completely trashed the muscular guy for the thinner chad. Ignore the countless examples of what you're shilling never works.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

It took me fucking decades of resources.

I had no childhood to speak of in order to be at the top of wealth in my country.

It took me yet another half a decade of resources in order to get sex.

It takes a lot of resources.

Not everybody has the same luck I had to be born in a non declining family structure.

[–]Thounumber1meow 🐈 *hisses angrily* 🇮🇳1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

are you still in brazil? just curious if you are speaking to your experiences there

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. But it happens everywhere. Poverty is not exclusive to Brazil, far from it.

[–]pnadlerlaw2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Sometimes, I used to contemplate men giving ugly women pity sex or pity attention. Just to boost their self esteem. And then I though, Men should do that. “Men” (in the general abstract), but that didn’t include me. I would like the world to be that way, just as long as I wasn’t the one helping it be that way.

I mean, “I” didn’t personally want to bite that bullet. But it would be “nice” if we could make the bottom tier of women feel better about themselves.

Women don’t care. Given a choice, women choose better or best. Women don’t think, “What would Mother Theresa do?” I don’t get all this discuss of “morality” with dating and mate selection.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

It is not about morality. It is about resources.

Resources are limited my friend.

[–]Shadow_Of_Chad-Lite2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If it was that easy dudes would have done it already.

[–]pnadlerlaw1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Apparently not. And yes, it’s that easy. They just don’t want to put in the effort. It’s easier to make excuses.

[–]The_Madmans_Reign18M4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Gym? Okay, fair, but I think it's monumentally less helpful when you're not already fat. Going from fat to fit is much different than going from normal to fit. I doubt that there are many guys at normal weight that would be rejected by women that become accepted by becoming fit. Clothes? Give me a break, I've been the witness to relationships happening at the gym, a place where everyone is dressed like shit. Not only that, but I've been in environments where everyone was wearing the same shirt, and yet some are still more attractive. Money? Why not just buy the prostitutes directly if you think money is going to mean anything?

Face + height + race = everything.

[–]pnadlerlaw0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Sadly, race matters a lot. I didn’t realize how much animosity there was towards white guys because of all the Latina and Asian?? girls who apparently want to be with someone “white.” I was never really attracted to either, but sadly, yes, race is a big factor.

Height, once you fall below 5’9”, it starts being a problem. Once you’re above 6’, there’s a noticeable bonus, but it’s not as drastic or determinative as people make it out to be.

Face, yes, facial structure, symmetry, jaw line, cheek bones and hair is easily at least 40% of attraction to a non-fat person. Face is a huge factor. If a guy is lacking in the face department, I can’t see him being more than a 6. But average face, he can still be an 8. Case and point, check out Thomas DeLauer before and after he lost his weight.

We can all cite exceptions to the general rule, but the fact is, men who have better bodies do better. Men who dress better do better. Men who have more disposable income do better. It’s just a fact.

When you have nothing to be anxious about if your shirt comes off, when you feel good in what you’re wearing and how people feel towards you (even if it’s jealousy, hate, envy, contempt), and when you don’t care about picking up the tab on stuff or going to reasonably nice and interesting places, come on ... you can’t say that doesn’t help ... A LOT

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Dude, stop denying that Face + height + race = everything and move on.

[–]pnadlerlaw1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Face, race and height are important, but you can’t change those things. Of the things you can change, respectfully, don’t deny the substantial positive effect those things have.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Face, race and height are important, but you can’t change those things.

That's the point. It's over.

[–]pnadlerlaw1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Except it’s not. It’s over with respect to the immutable traits, not the mutable traits.

Otherwise, if I was 6’5”, instead of 5’10”, you think I could just sit on my ass and rely on my face (which God knows how fat it would be if body didn’t matter) and my white/European skin tone and race?

What, I would walk into a bar and be like, “Bitch, look at my face, and skin, yeah I’m white, oh and ... (whispers) 6’5”) and you think I would have the same or more success (with an average body, average dress style and personal care, and average income?

I could eat cheesecake and drink scotch all day long and it wouldn’t matter, because I got my mother’s face, was 6’5” and am white?

No way.

[–]praisethesun799Not actually a fag 😉0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Every time someone mentions that clothing doesn't matter it's always coming from someone who dresses like shit and could be improved like 50% just by wearing good fits lol People flirt in hospitals too where everyone is in scrubs lol, doesn't mean what you wear the rest of th time doesn't matter

It matter for the 99% of your life that you're not spending in the gym

Clothing can make a man go from skinny to slender and from fat to imposing

[–]The_Madmans_Reign18M1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I personally dress decently. I wear a button down shirt + nice shorts/jeans in an environment where t shirt + basketball shorts/cargo shorts is the standard. Doesn’t seem to help.

So...are you saying style isn’t attractive on its own, but is only useful for body shape illusions?

[–]praisethesun799Not actually a fag 😉1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Style on it's own is attractive is if fits a certain niche or aesthetic that a woman is into ,like the musician artist type, the hippy, the high powered suit etc .

The main thing about dressing well is putting your body in an advantageous light yes.

You can be better dressed than your peers but without knowing what your particular aesthetic is, it's hard to gauge whether it's helping or hidering you . Like the guys in r/malefashionadvice are well dressed, sure but the whole aesthetic is "gay twink on daddy's yacht" for the most part

Edit : I hope I don't sound condescending, I'm sure you're well dressed, or maybe something else is the problem, but fashion is my work , and the thing i know the most about lol

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Delusional.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Dude women are the same way. They just don't have to work for sex that is why so many women are fat and started the fat positivity movement instead of going to the gym...

I just don't like this double standard of calling men lazy when women are just as lazy...

[–]jalapenopancakesbitter old jaded hag0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Delusional.

[–]the-lone-squidNot the edible squid-2 points-1 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Seriously. Dont be fat. It's really that easy.

[–]The_Madmans_Reign18M5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

No it isn't. You need actual positive facial features.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Delusional.

[–]DXBrigade5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They are having sex with guys who aren't living with their mommy, and whose social skills weren't stunted by video games.

[–]lefactorybebe3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Idk, I'd do the same thing I did before. Wait until I found someone who I liked who liked me back, then date that person.

That's what I see other people around me doing. All my friends are dating people they met in real life and are the same age (generally within a year or two of each other). Everything seems pretty damn normal around me.

Edit: I was never interested in dating anyone much older than me (I turned down a guy who was 33 when I was 21 because of his age) and I still wouldn't be if I were single now.

[–]storytellermich2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

May come as a shock, but....NOBODY.

[–]nomuppetyourmuppet1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Other women 😂

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Each other? LMAO.

[–]mydikishomofobik3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A small number of men are fucking all the girls. Online dating, social media, and apps like Tinder have made it easier for young women to all fuck a small number of men. I'm curious to see what will happen in the future with this generation. Will there be more single older women in the future complaining "where are all the good men?"

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women are fucking the men who work up the courage to approach them -- just like they always have.

[–]webernicke4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are fucking the ATTRACTIVE men who work up the courage to approach them -- just like they always have.

Ftfy.

Hell, sometimes the attractive men don't even need to approach.

The uggos just get creep shamed for approaching.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Top 20% and their sex toys

[–]deadlegs12Purple Pill Man3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My senior year of college I was in the best shape of my life and had a handful of underclassmen girls I was seeing. So my guess is slightly older men

[–]iceicle9992 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The internet is full of really stupid people who think that the headline 'people having less sex' means that society is becoming more anti-sex and pro-traditional. Reddit has a high concentration of these really stupid people I'm referring to. What's really going on here is that male incels are on the rise while a sharper concentration of men are getting more women to themselves.

I'm not sure what to do about it. Going to the gym so women can like you is a tiring task. Guys all feel entitled on some level (yes reddit, even those cute extroverted young guys you fawn over who get women, them too) and when men don't get what they want, they get pissed.

[–]ontherailstoday2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Sex has always been pretty damn thin on the ground for unattractive or inexperienced young men... just in the past unattractive and inexperienced young men knew and accepted (yes they ACCEPTED... petulant bitterness is NOT ATTRACTIVE and will keep you from success) they had to chase everything and take what they could get if they want to get started. 50 year old woman making eyes at you when you're 20 and still virgin? Take the opportunity. Fattest girl in the school sits next to you in the back of the cinema when you are both 14? Start talking, then cuddling her a bit and try your luck at getting a finger up her. Girl you aren't in the least attracted to is showing signs of interest when you are 17? Think about it a bit and try to organize something you can both handle, maybe taking her out for a cheap slice of pizza is a good move, maybe you'll get something, at least something is happening as opposed to nothing happening.

Porn has given young dudes an easy way to blow their loads and that's fine, what is not fine is thinking that there's some sort of steady increase in difficulty from porn to actual sex and steady increase in rewards from porn to actual sex. As if getting laid is only going to be a little more difficult than using porn... porn is made specifically to get you off, a woman is made to do her own thing, get this into your heads, they are different games altogether. Getting laid is going to involve going home with blue balls occasionally. A sex life is not like a computer game where porn is the beginners level and then you go to another level that is slightly harder and slightly more rewarding. Porn and sex with other humans are different games.

Turns out we've discovered one of the reasons why some previous eras tended to ban porn or limit its use. Porn gives those young dudes who don't put much thought into other people and their priorities the wrong idea about sex. And no it is not the job of women to work out what men should do about dealing with the ready availability of porn. It isn't our job to form ourselves into an easy next level after porn. It is the job of men to form male culture that gives young men reasonable expectations of the difference between porn and the start of an actual sex life.

Anyhow, who are this women fucking? Guys who passed that first hurdle and are playing the actual game of having a sex life not the game of chasing the idea of something a little easier and a little more rewarding than porn. Yeah some of them will be older. Women don't actually find older guys more attractive than younger men, just when that's what is out there that's what the SMP is and well you get your sex in the SMP. Men who are still in the porn mindset really aren't in the SMP. They are more like the freebies you find on secondhand reselling sites like gumtree. I mean maybe someone can make something outta three planks and a half gallon of ceiling paint, but putting a price on it is a bit extreme.

How would I date if I was young and dating again? I'd probably start at 18, and find some vaguely attractive gainfully employed older guy (22 to 24) who wants me for keeps to have babies with and have him house and feed and clothe me while I made my way through my tertiary education, and at the end of that I'd decide whether to keep him or not.

[–]webernicke2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

TL:DR "Loser men need to know thier place.'

I think your explanation is ignoring a lot of equalizing details to push this sentiment that modern unattractive men just need to accept thier lot.

Sex has always been pretty damn thin on the ground for unattractive or inexperienced young men... just in the past unattractive and inexperienced young men knew and accepted...they had to chase everything and take what they could get if they want to get started.

I don't know about this. First of all, what's this vague "the past" you speak of? Depending on your timeframe, the "past" also included widespread prostitution, monogamy, religiosity, arranged marriages, a lack of hormonal birth control, lack of online dating, women primarily in the home and out of the workforce, regular wars that killed hundreds of thousands/millions of young men etc. The SMP in this "past" that you allude to seems to mostly include limited social circles where people married the first or second person they've ever been with like the neighbor's kid or something.

The narrative that men in the past in particular accepted groveling for a whiff of any pussy like some kind of sexual underclass seems dubious. The situation of men in the past is vastly different from today's circumstances, and the idea that modern men simply need to "accept" the spike in sexlessness or that porn is to blame is baseless as you've described it.

[–]ontherailstoday1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

> The narrative that men in the past in particular accepted groveling for a whiff of any pussy like some kind of sexual underclass seems dubious.

At the start of their sexual lives, if they lacked some sort of sexual capital to be started with (wealth, a fine family background, great prospects, excellent good looks and athletic prowess etc) they took what they could get... then by the time they fingered the fat girl in high school, had a drunken one night stand with a butterface who refused to answer calls thereafter, had a crazy ass girlfriend who wasn't even all that pretty, been seduced by one of their friend's mothers, then eventually dated and married some woman who was an acceptable compromise but far from their ideal they were damn grateful to have their wife.

Yes, loser guys do need to know their place. Everyone needs to know their place if they intend moving out of their place. You see it is easy to stay in place and build a strong fantasy you are really somewhere else... it is when you try to move that the nature of the place you are in will break all your fantasies.

[–]webernicke6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

At the start of their sexual lives, if they lacked some sort of sexual capital to be started with (wealth, a fine family background, great prospects, excellent good looks and athletic prowess etc) they took what they could get...

But why do you assume what unattractive men could get in the past is what unattractive men can get now?

With OLD, fat highschool girl, butterface, crazy ass unpretty girl, and friend's mom don't have to settle for some loser. They can find dozens of Chads willing to at least dump a fuck in them in minutes.

It goes both ways. Modern tech can allow men to isolate themselves from those formative sexual experiences they might have had otherwise. But even if they are putting themselves out there competition is also much steeper and the environment is much more cutthroat in the modern day. Look at the OkCupid data where women rate 80% of men below average. That's not to mention that women don't depend on men for resources anymore, that men are legally and socially discouraged from being forward in thier sexuality, that the population is swelling, that young women "having fun in thier 20's" is lionized as opposed to settling down.

It actually might just be that men have it harder when trying to mate these days. Perhaps a side effect of women's liberation is that more men are going to be sexless and alone.

Yes, loser guys do need to know their place. Everyone needs to know their place if they intend moving out of their place.

I think that the rising sexlessness is men knowing thier place. I think a lot of men are looking at the SMP and correctly realizing that they've got slim to no chances.

[–]Daffan4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This question is so easy though... It's literally posted here in every thread in some form.

Women are having sex with the top guys who easily handle multiple women but never commit. Chad's harem.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Chad

[–]jalapenopancakesbitter old jaded hag1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

If he didn’t have a job, was messy, was emotionally unstable, lived with mom, was emotionally stunted, was unhealthy, could never I initiate conversation, never initiated dates, or was afraid of commitment, I’d shelve him.

I was going on 3 dates a week at one point with multiple men (not sleeping with, mind you) and very few ticked the boxes. I cared a lot less when I was casually dating but when I got fed up and wanted to get married, I got very picky.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Thanks I will add to the red pill archive of stories about alpha widows.

[–]jalapenopancakesbitter old jaded hag2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

All my exes were betas and I married an alpha, but I can totally see where you got the idea. Touche.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, right.

[–]AreOut3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

every woman believes that, she isn't the only one :)

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No you didn't marry an alpha, lmao.

[–]DownvotedFreethinker1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This post actually has made me want to unsub from this sub

[–]Shadow_Of_Chad-Lite1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, if this becomes a bigger problem this may drive more and more men to go on some sort of "man strike" where they refuse to provide their services.

[–]The_Madmans_Reign18M4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Nope, will never happen, because somebody has to be the first to admit their views in public without a mask and it's not going to be me.

[–]Shadow_Of_Chad-Lite0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah but if it's more than 60% of dudes.

[–]The_Madmans_Reign18M1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

More likely we'll just diverge into "realists" who have tons of sex and "escapists" who indulge in the future's god-tier augmented reality waifus.

[–]katymarxPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pffft, yeah sure.

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

What services? You mean not go to work?

[–]Shadow_Of_Chad-Lite1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Things only men can do.

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

What things?

[–]Shadow_Of_Chad-Lite0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You know. . .

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No.

[–]Shadow_Of_Chad-Lite0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No.

[–]cracksniffer6662 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I remember 10 years ago I was slaying. I still have a couple FWB, but things have DRASTICALLY changed.

Social Media lets women pick the top 10% of dudes, and dudes have no problem fucking women with a lower SMV.

Things are fucked, I can tell you that. I don't see it turning around either, at least until The Great Collapse in about 10-15 years.

Social Media has ruined courtship, favors hypergamy/discretion of such, promotes instant gratification, etc.

I don't want to sound like a downer, but coming from someone that has been having sex/dating for 14 years, shit is fucked. When I was 17, I was over 300lbs, had acne, and had a skinny tan gf with big tits.

I'm slim with no acne now, and I couldn't fucking FATHOM having a GF like that with the way things have shifted.

[–]sturbine 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

So what would you say to a good looking dude in college now - just put a bit of effort into tinder pics and allow friends to drag you to parties, and monitor the gravity well?

[–]beyond98I've took both pills0 points1 point  (33 children) | Copy Link

I'm one of those young celibate men. I'm with the red pill theory of 20/80 rule in this case, as I think it's a consequence of the "liberalisation of the sexual market", and that there are some men that have sex with an increasing quantity of women, that can choose now a sexual partner with more freedom, as LTR nowadays are not seen as the only option to have sex with someone, and you know that girls generally found easier to date a boy than the opposite.

Another factors that we could considerare the increase of homosexual people people that gets out the closet in both sexes, but I don't know how can affect to the question made by the OP, and the increasing amount of men that withdrew from the market (MGTOWs mainly), which is nearly irrelevant

[–]Digedag5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Homosexuality is not increasing. The amount of people who come out of the closet is, because it's more acceptable now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (21 children) | Copy Link

I'm one of those young celibate men.

Do you even lift, bro?

ETA: You guys sure do love downvoting.

[–]geyges🐇0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

increase of homosexual people in both sexes

Is that true? Are people just coming out of the closet more, or are people seriously catching the gay?

[–]beyond98I've took both pills0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wanted to say that when I referred to the increase of homosexuality. Sorry for the mistake, I'm editing

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Straight guys don't just decide to be gay.

[–]geyges🐇4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

speak for yourself...., handsome.

[–]loke2dabrainonthexans ☠0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No but some do "experiment" or have regular flings with other men, even if theyre not attracted to men. It's becoming more common now that it's more acceptable in our culture.

Ofcourse you make the case it was always common but men just hid it out of fear, who knows.

[–]loke2dabrainonthexans ☠0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

On the male side, yes. Women have been allowed to explore that side of their sexuality for some time but men haven't until fairly recently.

Some newer stats have been demonstrating the changes in male sexuality now that homophobia is becoming less of a thing.

[–]geyges🐇2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's good news, now I can get rejected both by Stacy and gay Chad.

[–]Bekiala0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I would think women tend to date or marry men who are at least a few years older. The age difference can even be 10 -20 years older. It rarely goes the other way with women dating much younger men. This may account for a bit of it.

I'm also a bit skeptical about the honesty of reporting on sex partners as it is such a personal topic. Some difference may be seen as society becomes more open about sex . . . .hmmm . . . I would think there are studies about this that figure the margin of error but this all is a bit out of my league intellectually.

[–]skystar861 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So would it be fair to say that since women date slightly older that there is a small age range where the men have to deal with the new SMP and the women deal with the old SMP?

[–]Bekiala0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Could you explain more? I actually don't know the difference between the old and new SMP.

I would think that throughout time when men and women have married people quite a bit older or younger that they have to deal with the cultural differences that occur because of the age gap . . . . but I'm not sure this is what you are talking about.

[–]skystar861 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Say women date on average guys 3 years older than them. This would create a gap where the SMP for women is the old SMP and the SMP for men is the new SMP. Say things don't start becoming trouble until men are below age 35. This means 32, 33, and 34 year old women are in the old SMP but 32,33,and 34 year old men are in the new SMP because they're dating women younger than they are.

[–]Bekiala0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I get that but I still don't understand what is the difference between the old SMP and the new SMP.

Thanks for your response.

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Since you're 30 you're in the range where you can easily do it since you're early Millennial. Only 5 years up would put you in the old SMP and old dating standards. It would be different for a 20 year old.

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I already did this in my early 20s.

[–]prodigy2throw#Transracial0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s dat 20% hitter right there boi

[–]MuleFool420 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The same 20% of men they've always been fucking.

[–]TrickHistory6 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women in this thread rejecting men who live with their parents. ... do you have ANY sort of clue how high the cost of living is for people these days? Where even graduating and working in your mid-20s on a starter salary can barely afford you even a cockroach infested basement rental in most major urban centres??? Men don't have the luxury of sugar daddies paying for our shit you know lol

[–]unicornpower940 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Each other, you can date an asshole who will fuck around with your feelings or you can date a girl who gets you and gives you 8 orgasms your first time together, plus she’s got 7 cocks for you to choose from. Everything men provided in the past can be had by women or outsourced.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women now have millions of men to choose from. Back then women would only marry someone in her circle. But now she has access to so many men, through apps like tinder. On these apps there are men who are more established, have more money, experience, etc...

Women will go for the well established men. While the non established men cant do anything except for going after ugly women. I will never fuck a ugly woman. And I don't care if that means being virgin my whole life.

[–]AzihayyaWhite Knight, the Voice of Femnai0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Just throwing this out there, but maybe it has something to do with the radicalization of our young men? How are you supposed to relate with a woman when you inherently believe that feminism is the bane of American culture, or that women want to be raped? For the longest time, men have essentially denigrated and suffocated female opinions--I'd wager that the number one thing that a woman wants is to feel safe; how can you offer that to a woman when you automatically assume a position of entitlement over their bodies? There are so many young men in this country that have latched onto racist and misogynist messages, and it must result in those young men being very unrelatable to women. Not saying that it has everything to do with it, but it's something to think about.

Another idea--there are so many young men who are foregoing activities and groups that would bring themselves inside, instead choosing to involve themselves in online cultures, which are notoriously toxic, and further inhibits them from developing social skills with the opposite sex. For most people, I imagine that it is exposure that prevents men from finding women to relate with--many young men don't even work, instead staying home watching Twitch, and having a relationship with porn.

I think that it is intellectually dishonest to pin all of these problems on women, or their dating strategies, when, from my experience (as a 30yo never-had-sex volcel), most women are extremely open and kind. How does one begin to approach such a nice person from the perspective of hateful indignation and entitlement, especially when you think that a woman is a "slut" or a "whore" because she's had sex with other men?

[–]webernicke5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

There are so many young men in this country that have latched onto racist and misogynist messages, and it must result in those young men being very unrelatable to women.

You've got it backwards. Unattractive men find it hard to relate to women (possibly because they are constantly rejected by women) and then they latch onto the misogyny.

For one, misogyny is far from universally repulsive to women. Some of the most misogynistic, literally-life- threatening-to-women assholes on the planet get laid like tile. For another, plenty of women are racists and hateful themselves.

Let's not pretend that attractiveness and sexual success is a reliable barometer of morality.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just throwing this out there, but maybe it has something to do with the radicalization of our young men? How are you supposed to relate with a woman when you inherently believe that feminism is the bane of American culture, or that women want to be raped? For the longest time, men have essentially denigrated and suffocated female opinions--I'd wager that the number one thing that a woman wants is to feel safe; how can you offer that to a woman when you automatically assume a position of entitlement over their bodies? There are so many young men in this country that have latched onto racist and misogynist messages, and it must result in those young men being very unrelatable to women. Not saying that it has everything to do with it, but it's something to think about.

Feminism is trash because it encourages hypergamy and fear-mongering against men, but these men you're talking about are worse trash. But they're not the problem you should be most concerned with. The real problem are the male NEETs who will collapse our tax base and become totally detached from society: high enough numbers of nonviolent non-participants can drag a civilization into ruin. Those numbers aren't high enough right now but they are steadily growing.

[–]JustRuss79RedPurple Man2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Maybe it has something to do with the feminization of our young men? How do you relate to a woman when you've been told your whole life she is better than you, when feminists tell you they don't need you, when if you look at a woman the wrong way you fear they will cry Creep or Rape?

For decades now, its been trending towards #metoo and believeallwomen. The news is full of stories of men being accused of rape... the definition of rape changes so that you can now decide after the fact that you did not give consent. That if either one of you has had alcohol, you raped her? News stories of women who were proven to have faked their stories for attention or to get out of trouble.

Men forced to pay for children that they didn't know were theirs, have children taken away in divorce, forced to pay for their ex-wives lifestyle, forced to give up part of their retirement to an ex.

We've swung too far back in the other direction.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Normal guys

[–]geyges🐇4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

u/pngmafia97

Here's Exhibit 2, from our discussion about the idea that if you're not having sex, you're not normal. I'll keep sending these to you on occasion.

[–]LockeLamoraLies0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Me.

[–]TheBookOfSeilAn ounce of Snu Snu is worth a pound of cure0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Each other.

Everyone is gay now.

[–]WiseMonkeyGoodMonkey0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If data like this is at all accurate (and it seems to hold up) then loads of women are (knowingly or unknowingly) sharing the same set of guys.

[–]DAOcomment20 points1 point  (21 children) | Copy Link

Birthrate is more important. So long as women reproduce, civilization continues for another generation using the genes of Chad and not the genes of unsexed males.

[–]jeremiahthedamned1 point2 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

how long before the lonely men rebel?

[–]DAOcomment20 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy Link

Against what? Women freely choosing not to fuck them?

A loser who rebels against their sexless situation does so by hitting the gym, career climbing, self-improving, building social skills, approaching women and thus becomes Chad.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

How about go fuck yourself with that bootstrap shit and we have guns to do the job for us?

[–]DAOcomment20 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You should bootstrap. Less pathetic than "Give me pussy or I'll shoot".

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Bootstrap shooting skills.

[–]DAOcomment20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly, whining about not being able to train skills is bullshit.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Lonely men have caused the collapse of countless civilizations. See: the mass migrations. They also wind up going to war, too. Practically every major war since at least the Crusades up to World War II and the Arab Spring came during a Youth Bulge, a known phenomenon involving a swelling of populations of men who can't find a wife. (The latter was also triggered in part by food/water shortages.)

In war-free America they will collapse the system by destroying the taxpayer base. See: the swelling NEET populace.

[–]DAOcomment20 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Undersexed men aren't going to collapse the tax base. Undersexed men are economically productive, generally. In fact, being productive is their sexual strategy. Beta bucks. Maybe unskilled, unproductive men could collapse the tax base by using government programs by not putting money back into them. That's not a vagina deficit problem. Handing omegas a prostitute won't fix their fundamental inability to contribute.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes they are. You don't understand what a NEET is, do you? They're increasing in numbers. Just as they have in every civilization where male celibacy has gone up at the rate it is now. Look up NEET and get back to me.

[–]DAOcomment20 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

"Maybe unskilled, unproductive men could collapse the tax base by using government programs but not putting money back into them. That's not a vagina deficit problem. Handing omegas a prostitute won't fix their fundamental inability to contribute."

Does this statement say that NEETs aren't increasing? Does it say that they pose no threat to the economy? NEET isn't caused by celibacy. Nor is NEET fixed by providing sex. However, you were arguing that undersexed men will collapse the tax base, citing NEET as a supporting example. This example is not a relevant support. It's irrelevant because collapsing the tax base is a result of spending tax dollars but not contributing tax dollars through skilled employment. Fucking an unskilled person doesn't make them more skilled or employable, and so, doesn't help their contribution to the tax base. So you citing NEET's tax base burden is irrelevant to how much sex NEETs are getting. Maybe NEETs are lonely and undersexed too, but their loneliness and celibacy is irrelevant to the burden they pose--their burden that they're unskilled and staying that way. Let me know what part of this suggests to you that I didn't understand NEET, becauase I think my understanding was fine.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Lemme put this more simply. Men seek to achieve because they seek to make themselves worthy of a mate. When the mating prospects aren't there, many men just stop working. So yes, crudely speaking, the growing NEET crisis is solved by more sex.

Fucking an unskilled person doesn't make them more skilled or employable, and so, doesn't help their contribution to the tax base.

Men with mating prospects are more motivated to become skilled and employable. This is the part that you're either missing or trying to dismiss. A population of men who realize that finding a mate is next to impossible will have no impetus to become skilled and employable. This in turn makes them become NEETs resolved to a life of porn and video games. These layabouts in turn become a big tax burden because they're using services they're not paying for. Worse yet they also become homeless and/or a big crime problem.

This is also happening in Japan, with a twist. Men there have gone "herbivore" and turned away from mate hunting, with zero regard to whether women want them (this disregard being the aforementioned twist). What, next, did they do? They also stopped trying to get better paying jobs. Putting Japan in a looming economic crisis. The difference between them and the slower-growing NEET problem in America is they're being stripped of any incentive to contribute.

The long and short of it: men who see they have little chance at finding a mate will also see little desire to contribute to society.

So history says that you seriously don't understand the NEET problem.

[–]DAOcomment20 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I understand what a NEET is. Now that you have reread my comment and can't deny that this is obviously the case, now you're shifting that to I don't understand the "NEET problem" in a broader sense, namely yours, which is that NEET is caused by not getting laid.

NEET is a topic of rigorous study economic study, at least as rigorous as social science can be. There are a number of institutions interested in fixing NEET. So handwaving isn't needed here--stats, surveys, and analyses are available. None that I've seen reduce NEET's cause to male inceldom. NEETS are discouraged about their prospects of finding work, not their prospects of getting laid as a precondition to them working. LMAO.

Cite a study of NEEThood indicating otherwise. You're huffing about how this male celibacy is NEET 101 shit, lol. If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't send me off to Google until I find the nonexistent support for your point--instead, you'd just cite source after source. You can't cite a source, because your source for explaining NEET as an incel phenomenon is yourself. Also, that's not how this works. You don't give me the burden of proving your own claim then getting back to you. You get back to me when you can support your point yourself.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I understand what a NEET is. Now that you have reread my comment and can't deny that this is obviously the case, now you're shifting that to I don't understand the "NEET problem" in a broader sense, namely yours, which is that NEET is caused by not getting laid.

That has been my contention all along.

NEET is a topic of rigorous study economic study, at least as rigorous as social science can be. There are a number of institutions interested in fixing NEET. So handwaving isn't needed here--stats, surveys, and analyses are available. None that I've seen reduce NEET's cause to male inceldom. NEETS are discouraged about their prospects of finding work, not their prospects of getting laid as a precondition to them working. LMAO.

You keep repeating this and you keep being wrong. I didn't give you the burden of anything. NEET is just the modern term for what history calls a Youth Bulge, which is an abnormally large population of men with no marriage prospects. Youth Bulges, or a large scale NEET problem, precede collapses and every war from the Crusades to World War II.

Your argument is dead and we're done here.

[–]jeremiahthedamned0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

i have aspberger's syndrome and have been homeless ~40 years.

[–]Xemnas812 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just get out of here dude, the community will just make you suicidal if you're disabled or have mental illness.

90% of this community cannot relate to your living needs, the 10% who do are still women who won't date you IRL

[–]jeremiahthedamned0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

thanks

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Can't you get on government assistance ??

[–]jeremiahthedamned0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i get social security.

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Easy. A smaller percentage of guys are having more sex.

[–]MDMCrab0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Me, obviously.

[–]i-grok-it0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm taking a shot in the dark... But, I suspect that women are having more sex with women.

[–]AnotherWitch0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was single three years ago. I accidentally met my fiancé by going to a boardgame store to play games and meet new friends.

Some people still meet and date normally, I suspect.

[–]fluidspaghetti0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ourselves and other women ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[–]FlavFal31F-1 points0 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

Bonus questions for women: If you were/are single, what would be your dating strategy?

Same as usual.

What age gap would you accept?

I'm in the minority, but I'd continue to date younger men. My sex drive is too high and I hear too many horror stories about older men and loss of sex drive. Wouldn't wanna end up in a "sex 3 times a week" dead bedroom.

[–]geyges🐇10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

LOL WTF. Are you getting pounded as you type this? In what universe is 3/week a dead bedroom?

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

Not all guys lose their sex drive. I'm 55 and still horny AF. Luckily my GF has a high sex drive too.

[–]FlavFal31F1 point2 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

From what I've heard even older men shooting up testosterone can't compete with young men who sit around all day.

[–]reluctantly_red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't know about that as l have never supplemented my testosterone. My sex drive has decreased a bit but I started from a pretty high level. When I was 19 I was good for seven or eight rounds per night. Now three or four times and I'm done.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (26 children) | Copy Link

Because you get used to the sex drive after a while, after 20 or so, every man has a decreasing sex drive and starts getting used to it. Quite nice if you ask me. I never felt as serene.

[–]FlavFal 1 points [recovered]  (25 children) | Copy Link

Sounds sad.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

It is not, imagine being free from a drug addiction which was destroying your life...

That is pretty much it.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter