TheRedArchive

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There's a post on TIL right now with the headline

TIL Men initiate sex more than 3x as often as women do in a long-term, heterosexual relationship. However, sex happens far more often when the woman takes the initiative, implying that it’s the woman who sets limits, and that frequency of sex depends on how enthusiastic a couple are about it.

The top comment is

I'm glad this was studied, to provide empirical evidence, but you know every married man was reading this going "NO FUCKING SHIT!".

The rest of the comments react in similar ways such as "I wish I could be paid do to studies on obvious things."

So now that it's common knowledge that women are the gatekeepers of sex, why is that the case?

Does this invalidate the notion that men and women have "equal" sex drives? Or do the sexes' libidos change because of factors such as long term relationships? Why does the male sex drive hold up in an LTR? Is it more durable?

Link to the study


[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew69 points70 points  (85 children) | Copy Link

the person who wants the thing less is always the bottleneck and has all the hand. duh

[–]red_matrix17 points18 points  (83 children) | Copy Link

Are you implying women have lower sex drives than men? Women usually say this is a myth.

[–]duffmanhb41 points42 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Women who say that are outliers or deluding themselves. They just like to believe they have higher sex drives. It’s their solipsism. They don’t realize how insane puberty was for men and how much they had to learn to tame the beast.

It’s not to say women don’t crave, enjoy, and desire sex... but on the bell curve, it’s not like men’s. Men have testosterone which scientifically increases sex drive. This has been tested over and over again. It’s literally proven men on average are much higher.

But women just don’t understand the difference. It’s like a person who likes to eat a lot vs am obese person. The person who likes to eat a lot will be like “oh I totally get it! I crave food just as much as you... but you know, because of society, I just don’t express it as much.” And it’s like “no... no you don’t. You do not crave food as much as I do.”

Go to a gay club with men vs women. It’s night and day. When left to their own devices, gay men are having no holds bar drug fueled casual orgies like it’s the end of the world. Women left to their own devices are just far less interested.

Seriously. It’s not “social conditioning”. If their sex drive was as high as men, they’d be going to sex parties just like men. Yet those women who do are outliers, not the norm.

Louis CK describes it best. Women say they like war. Women see sex as being at a parade, sitting on a tank waving while wearing a sexy military outfit, having fun and enjoying themselves. Men are like John McCain in a prison camp.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

But women just don’t understand the difference. It’s like a person who likes to eat a lot vs am obese person. The person who likes to eat a lot will be like “oh I totally get it! I crave food just as much as you... but you know, because of society, I just don’t express it as much.” And it’s like “no... no you don’t. You do not crave food as much as I do.”

I like this analogy.

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

lol it’s a terrible analogy

Show me an obese person and I’ll show you a terrible diet

[–]CandleLessPurple Pill Man7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly. They crave more food so they eat more. Leading to a terrible diet.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

They don’t realize how insane puberty was for men

I pity anyone who was hornier than me, lol.

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I was so horny as a teen that I had spontaneous orgasms while doing sit ups in gym class and while raking leaves in the backyard.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

OK, maybe you got me beat!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thankfully, it never happened to me, but there were boys in middle and high school who jizzed their pants from hugs or who had a thing for the teacher and had to hide raging boners in class. It happens to the best of us.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know how horny you were then, but I feel likewise. I never experienced my sex drive as all-consuming, though: can't relate.

[–]HossMcDankEdgy Centrist0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What percentage of guys that you knew would you have fucked if they straight-up asked?

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As a teenager, I don't think I ever turned anyone down who worked up the courage to make a move! I was Li'l Miss Steamypants, lol. The thing is, teenaged boys are terribly bashful, so usually a girl has to engage in a fair number of machinations to cut that pony from the herd and get him alone in the dark, lol.

[–]Criticalthinking3462 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not true at all.... you need to actually read about female sexuality. I would suggest Come as you are

First 80% of men and 15% of women (like me) have what’s called spontaneous sexual desire. Meaning the typical “male” type and social standard. We can easy get aroused just by thinking about sex. We’re not “outliers”. We’re just often shamed into silence for simply being ourselves. 75% of women and 20% of men have what’s called responsive sexual desire. They are very context/environment driven. They need physical stimulation to get aroused. This is the typical “female” type. It is just different than males but actually does not mean women like sex less. Unfortunately this type is not the “norm” in our society so most don’t even know about it.

Also sex isn’t a “drive” it’s more a dual control model . We all have a “gas” and “break” pedal. Men tend to be more sensitive to the gas and women the breaks. Read the book for more on this.

I have sex daily because I have spontaneous desire and nothing is hitting my breaks in my marriage (and hasn’t been for years).

[–]HossMcDankEdgy Centrist4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

First 80% of men and 15% of women (like me) have what’s called spontaneous sexual desire.

Do you not realize how colossal that difference is?

We’re just often shamed into silence for simply being ourselves.

Tell that to gay men and the centuries of violent discrimination they have faced -- doesn't stop them from getting around.

[–]Criticalthinking3460 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes I do, it is still not “outliner” material though, and 2/10 men aren’t crazy horny either so you can’t generalize.

Silence didn’t stop me either, I just didn’t talk about it. Also if it was 100+ years ago I would have probably been burned at a stake for being intelligent.

[–]StarlingClarice 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

Women don’t go to sex parties, aren’t swingers, and aren’t promiscuous as well?

[–]duffmanhb6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I literally never said that. I clearly pointed out that there are outliers. Did you completely miss the multiple instance were I said there are outliers and general bell curves?

Go to a gay party, and it’s going to be all circling sex, tons of hooking up, and craziness. Always. Men love to fuck so they make it all about fucking. Now go to a lesbian club party. It may get sexual, but never at the scale of what happens at male gay events. Entire industries are built around catering the male gay sex scene for a reason.

[–]RatMan29Rational Man23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women do have lower demand (in the economic sense) for sex. That is, they are less likely than men to be willing to make the hookups that are available to them. Their claim to have equal or higher drives is not supported by revealed preference.

[–]red-priestess≧◡≦2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

None definitively determine sex drive because theres difference in how to quantify "sex drive" but it is shown men masturbate more than women and one particular study shows (i would link but im on mobile. Its by Regnerus, Price, and Gordon) that men masturbate more the less sex they have whereas with women, its the inverse.

I suspect the reason men usually initiate sex has both societal and biological factors, as is true with most of our behavior.

[–]analt223No Pill5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are less sexual in raw prevalency. When they meet a man who checks off all the checkboxes, they usually become more sexual than dudes oddly enough. Its just good luck checking off all the checkboxes, women have a lot of demands

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Technically yes. When women want sex, they want sex just as much if not more than men. This can be seen how most guys want a nymphomaniac but then cant keep up with her in actuality. But (most) women dont want sex all the time, and often require things to get them in the mood. Whereas most guys just need a stiff breeze

[–]red_matrix6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women can also have sex without being aroused whereas men can’t. There’s a big difference in how our equipment works.

[–]TheBookOfSeilAn ounce of Snu Snu is worth a pound of cure2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It doesn’t matter what they say because the stats show otherwise and anecdotal experience of a handful of women saying “I like sex. I have a high sex drive and I can’t get enough from my man. His dick looks like a limp garden hose that’s just been shut off and still leaking water 24/7” don’t take into account that their man is still keeping up with her, and there are troves of men out there who are constantly looking for sex whereas the woman who think that they have high sex drives actually pale in comparison.

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What do your observations of the world tell you about women’s claim here

[–]HossMcDankEdgy Centrist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women usually say this is a myth.

I'm not sure if many women actually believe this. I mean let's be real, every woman knows very clearly the power they hold over men as a result of the latter's massive sex drives.

For those who do believe that, ask them what percentage of men could come up to them, say "wanna fuck" and get laid on the spot. It seems like a desperate "girl power" belief, or something that those who believe men and women are indistinguishable outside of their genitalia convince themselves of.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew5 points6 points  (53 children) | Copy Link

I will state it out right

I dont even actually believe women have "sex drives"

[–]frustrationlvl1005 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

We do, but it is generally lower. It depends on the person.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I think mostly women have a reactive drive to be made to feel sexy by attractive men

[–]PrehistoricPrincessNothing is sexier than mutual empathy and respect4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Your argument sounds very similar to one made about men on the Pink Pill: "Sex for Men is Ego-Driven"

Full disclosure, I don't believe either is entirely true. I'm sure there are women who have sex for ego purposes, just as there are men that do the same. But I 100% have a sex drive (yes, a drive for sex, not just masturbation), and I'm confounded as to where you're coming up with the idea that women don't have them.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

the pink pill are wrong. They don't understand male nature and they are morons

[–]PrehistoricPrincessNothing is sexier than mutual empathy and respect5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok, but the same can be said about the statement “women don’t have sex drives.” It shows a total lack of understanding of female nature.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No I am right

[–]PrehistoricPrincessNothing is sexier than mutual empathy and respect2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m convinced.

[–]frustrationlvl1000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you might be right, I personally have a mix, but I also want sex much more often than my other female friends.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

WTF?!

I for sure didn't drive halfway across Oklahoma just to admire the scenery ...

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Some of us do. I got into and stayed in a relationship for months with a man I didn’t find attractive, didn’t like, didn’t respect, and was embarrassed to be seen with, simply for easy access to daily sex. I can promise you that I felt the opposite of sexy while having sex with him. He was basically like a living fucking machine that I had to force myself to talk to once in a while.

[–]HossMcDankEdgy Centrist2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

got into and stayed in a relationship for months with a man I didn’t find attractive, didn’t like, didn’t respect, and was embarrassed to be seen with, simply for easy access to daily sex.

Something seems a bit off about this -- you could go find sex easily and daily by just asking.

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

STIs. Safer to stick with the same partner.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

im aware of what all women will claim

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No. I’ve thought about this and researched it quite a bit, and I’m confident that I’m simply an outlier. When I was on the birth control pill, my testosterone took an abrupt nose dive off of a cliff, and I experienced for the first time the typical reactive female libido. The difference was so night and day that I felt like I’d been chemically castrated. Went off the pill, and my sex drive came roaring back.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I believe you. Your story made me think a bit about my own life. Only makes sense that not everyone has the same drive.

What does the HL mean in your flair btw?

[–]StarlingClarice 1 points [recovered]  (34 children) | Copy Link

I masturbate 5x a week. Why am I doing that if I have no sex drive?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew8 points9 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

I don't Understand why modern women think that masturbation is a sex drive. Wanting to feel an orgasm is not a sex drive. A sex drive is a drive to have sex.

[–]StarlingClarice 1 points [recovered]  (17 children) | Copy Link

Wait.. what?? I do want to have sex.. if my husband is away or it’s not available to me at the time, I masturbate. Just like men. Or are you going to say they masturbate for different reasons? We all masturbate for the release. We are horny, and we want to come.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's great. I understand that individual women are going to argue with me. I have heard all of the arguments and every woman's story about what a high high sex drive she had. That's great. I am not talking specifically about you I am talking about women in general. I cannot falsify or verify yourself reported sex Sex drive. Notice that I very specifically did not say that women don't want sex or women don't like sex for various reasons, I said that they don't have a sex drive.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 5 points6 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I masturbate. Just like men.

Fr though. Masturbation is not a sex drive. There are loads of dudes whose wives complain about them on deadbedrooms, because all they want to do is fap to weird porn instead of fucking. There should be a different word for sex drive and fap drive.

[–]loke2dabrainonthexans ☠4 points5 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Ive heard of a couple relationships that ended because of this irl. The man would rather watch porn than touch his SO.

I believe that some men genuinely prefer porn over real women. A new girlfriend will excite them for a lil while but once sex becomes mundane they'll retreat back to porn and stop paying attention to their partner.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I believe that some men genuinely prefer porn over real women.

I agree. Porn has rotted men's brains.

[–]loke2dabrainonthexans ☠2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. If anything, becoming more independent of women might be a good thing for men in general.

[–]red_matrix1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the porn thing is a conditioned impulse and addiction. We don’t know enough about porn and problems men have with it.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup! That was husband #3.

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well they at least prefer porn over the women that they can get

[–]SimulatedEnvironment 1 points [recovered]  (9 children) | Copy Link

By that argument, I want sex more often than my gf so therefore she has no sex drive.

See how anecdotal information works in mysterious ways?

[–]StarlingClarice 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

? I never said since I had a higher sex drive than my husband that he had no sex drive though. The statement was that women have no sex drive. I’m a woman, with a sex drive....

[–]SimulatedEnvironment 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

Comparatively speaking. You’re taking it in literal terms and not understanding the meaning behind it.

[–]StarlingClarice 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

So help me to understand.

[–]SkrattGoddess2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Bro these people are stupid as hell, don't even try it xD Your equipment is working and that's the only point you needed to make.

[–]4gotOldU-nameAvoiding Kool-Aid as Much as Possible-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I thought upvoting and downvoting weren't allowed in this sub.

[–]SimulatedEnvironment 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Who polices that?

[–]4gotOldU-nameAvoiding Kool-Aid as Much as Possible0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I've seen them warn folks about it.

[–]ANAL_CREAMPIE_RAPE 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Are you implying that 5x a week is a lot?

lmao it's been years and years since I've had a single week where I only got off 5 times

[–]StarlingClarice 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

For someone with zero sex drive? Yes.

[–]eboy4hire3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

See, I can kind of see that in myself as a guy though. As long as I'm not thinking about sex and booties and stuff, I don't really have a drive for it. I can definitely get myself hyped for sex pretty easily, but I don't have an involuntary drive. The involuntary part is more the addictive nature of once you're horny you want to keep going.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I never would have expected this. That is so bold.

[–]resolutions316Red Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And this, right here, is the bedrock truth of all human relationships, and the core of everything RP gets right.

RP includes a metric ton of horse shit, but at least they understand that you can’t “communicate” your way around basic human instincts.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Did you actually read the study itself?

"The factor that best predicted couples’ intercourse frequency was women’s positive attitudes toward uncommitted sex. The more detached sex is to love and commitment for women (as measured by sociosexual attitudes), the more they possibly are willing to compromise, shifting the frequency somewhat toward their partner’s ideal frequency."

TL/DR: If you want frequent sex in a relationship, LTR "sluts"

[–]damaskrose 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

I feel like the women of PPD have been saying this forever but they won't listen, they can't give up their fantasy of finding a woman that's a slut for them and only them lol.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One such woman posted here, a year or two ago: very high sex drive, but only for the person she was with. It's rare as hell though.

[–]LillthOfBabylon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

they can't give up their fantasy of finding a woman that's a slut for them and only them lol.

And that's not happened unless they marry a "slut" really early like at 18.

They need to drop their Madonna-Whore complex.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's because sluts pair off with men who are the most sexually compatible with them.

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What do you mean?

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They usually start relationships from ONS

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am able to completely compartmentalize sex from how I feel about my partner. So even when I’m really angry at my partner, feeling unloved or resentful about the relationship, I still want to have sex with him every day. I just don’t want to kiss or cuddle.

[–]trueorfalsedmitryred despite the handle7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Wifing up a slut is a good way to have a lot of sex. You'll have a lot of sex. However, she will have more (but, if you're good with that, so be it).

Sluts who are willing to enter an LTR are--without fail--very damaged human beings.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Life is amoral.

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Just because someone has a positive attitude toward casual sex doesn’t mean they are willing to cheat on their partner. Sluts can have self-control.

[–]trueorfalsedmitryred despite the handle2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Sure, sluts can have self-control. If a woman is a slut, its more that she sees no good reason to have self-control. She has reasons she likes to fuck many men -- she likes it, she wants it to make her feel a certain way, it gets her advantages (NB I don't just mean tangible advantages; many sluts appreciate intangible advantages just as much). All of this is just fine: She should do what makes her happy.

But, if she's a slut and still wants a monogamous relationship...These reasons are incompatible with that aim. Of course, a lot of married sluts fake it for a while. Indeed, I would say that the majority of women (all of them?) that I had sex with before my (now dissolved) marriage were sluts. I've kept up with all of them: All of them got married, most more than once, and all cheated on their husbands. This list includes women who work at gas stations in Myrtle Beach, SC and tenured college professors. Seems like a varied sample (if small).

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

It could also mean that she has self-control, but doesn’t see anything wrong with casual sex while she’s single. So her self-control is irrelevant in that situation. But she may believe that cheating is wrong and feel intense loyalty to her husband (with whom she is pair-bonded). So she exerts self-control while she’s in a monogamous LTR, but sees no reason to exert it when she’s single.

[–]trueorfalsedmitryred despite the handle1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So she exerts self-control while she’s in a monogamous LTR, but sees no reason to exert it when she’s single.

Of course, the only problem with this "flip-switching" is that there is only one arbiter of each of these states in the entire Universe: her!

"The relationship has been over for a long time..."

"We're like roommates more than anything else..."

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women with integrity do exist. Some of them happen to be sluts, since having integrity has nothing to do with sociosexual orientation. And women without integrity will fuck a man over whether or not they are sluts. Both sluts and non-sluts branch swing, they just do it for different reasons. And the prude with n-count of 1 who lacks integrity still screws her husband over in the divorce, even if she doesn’t leave him for another man.

In TRP-speak: AWALT. She’s not yours, it’s just your turn. But at least the slut fucks you enthusiastically before she fucks you over. The prude doesn’t even fuck you before she fucks you over. Take your pick. 🤷‍♀️

[–]trueorfalsedmitryred despite the handle1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

since having integrity has nothing to do with sociosexual orientation.

"Integrity" is a loaded, and non-clinical word. If you want to argue that being a slut is all about sociosexual orientation, then you have to accept (as has been found in studies) that unrestricted sociosexual orientation correlates with poaching and succumbing to poaching of mates. It also correlates with low levels agreeableness and conscientiousness. These are diametrically opposed to staying in monogamous relationships.

So, can sluts be nice people? Of course they can be. Can they care about people? Hell, maybe so. Can they stay in monogamous relationships? No. They just can't.

But at least the slut fucks you enthusiastically before she fucks you over.

Fair enough.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

yes but then disappointingly I read

“The most remarkable finding is perhaps that it’s only the woman’s attitudes to casual sex that affect the frequency of sexual intercourse,” says Kennair. However, the findings may not apply to all cultures, Bendixen notes. They primarily apply to societies with more gender equality and female sexual control.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why do you say "disappointingly"? That quote is basically exactly as I said. Do you mean the societies part? I was also going to add that this is a Norwegian study and may not apply so well to the US.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you mean the societies part? I was also going to add that this is a Norwegian study and may not apply so well to the US.

this.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.21 points22 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

I think men’s sex drive is different, it’s more spontaneous and ever present. I think women’s is what many here refer to as reactionary. Women can want as much sex as men but it’s contextual and different. So, for example,I want a lot of sex with my husband, like every day. That doesn’t mean I felt some itch to go get it from strangers when I was single, like men do.

[–]StarlingClarice 1 points [recovered]  (12 children) | Copy Link

I’m the same way. I’m very, very sexual - with my husband, and previous long-term boyfriend. Not with strangers or acquaintances.

[–]AndemanMan5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I think this is linked to the idea of sex being 'emotional' and 'mental' for women

[–]StarlingClarice 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

I also masturbate all the time. Which is not emotional in the least bit. So I’m not really sure what the answer is. Maybe I’m just a weirdo.

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too-2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

>Maybe I’m just a weirdo.

Yes.

[–]StarlingClarice 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

I guess all of the other women in the world who masturbate are weird too, ha.

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow, that's cool that about a third of women aged 70+ still enjoy orgasms enough to masturbate! :D

[–]AndemanMan-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

it can't be purely about physical stimulation, right? otherwise the feeling of your clothes or driving in the car would make you horny

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When I’m really horny, I have spontaneous orgasms in Pilates class (legs together, blood flowing, friction, etc). It’s super embarrassing and not fun at all.

[–]eboy4hire1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Isn't sex emotional and mental for most people though? I imagine everybody gets those feels that come on when they're about to have sex.

[–]eboy4hire1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I still think men's are reactionary, and that they have to have some kind of thought about sex for it to awaken. Once they're in sex mode though, it's definitely hard to get out of it. Like I can look at an ass and consciously try to not focus on the sex appeal aspect of it and not get a boner. Getting a boner comes when you see that ass, and then you start to think what you'd do with it. There is a lot of random boners though of course. lol

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

We could just be using different definitions of reactionary. Or you could just be saying men’s is triggered much easier

[–]eboy4hire1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah it might be triggered easier, but I think the more attractive a man is, the closer his sex drive matches a woman's. I think that's the case simply because they're sexually satiated and they're confident that they can "get their next meal" so to speak.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well obviously if she’s highly attracted to him that’s gonna make sex easier lol. Attraction is a holistic thing for women though, less so for men

[–]diladusta-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

But this article was talking about women in relationships being less likely to want to have sex then men.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Ok, I’m not sure how that invalidates my opinion?

[–]diladusta0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You are claiming that different sex drive happen because women that are not in relationships don't want it as much. Yet this article is talking about it women still having a lower sex drive even in relationships.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I still don’t see how that invalidates my opinion. You’ll see I also was giving a personal anecdote. As for women in general, a lot of men stop trying or seducing their SOs, since (I believe) women’s sex drive is reactionary that’s clearly apart of it.

[–]diladusta0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If it is mainly reactionary i don't really consider it a drive. You don't really have a need for it and can easily do without(according to you).

If i told you i am very driven when it comes to sport. But i only go when my friend goes and i can do perfectly fine without for months. I don't consider myself having a drive for sport.

[–]SmurfESmurferson26 points27 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

A combo of things

Men have a higher, more urgent sex drive

Men stop flirting with their wives in LTRs, and her reactive sexuality loses interest

Women statistically do more housework after work (especially when kids are really young), so exhaustion is a factor

[–]NalkaNalkayou call it virtue, I call it cowardice12 points13 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

On the contrary woman doing more housework is statistically correlated with having more sex.

"We also find that increases in women’s hours of housework are positively related to satisfaction with the frequency of sex."

Also relationships where the man does the majority of the housework have the least sex of all categories.

[–]uniqueeleniNo Pill17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe the women who do all the housework are more likely not to work? That could explain being more willing to have sex since:

  1. They wouldn’t be as tired

  2. They would want to please their husband for being the sole breadwinner

[–]SmurfESmurferson12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m going to guess that correlation is less about housework, and more about couples who have more traditional gender roles

But who knows 🤷‍♀️

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also relationships where the man does the majority of the housework have the least sex of all categories.

He's unemployed or she's ill?

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also relationships where the man does the majority of the housework have the least sex of all categories.

Probably a good bit of that is this woman is just lazy across the board. Sloths and pandas aren't known for their eventful sex lives.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

the irony. Does that make having a maid the best solution?

  1. Wife won't get tired.

  2. Not having to deal with this

    relationships where the man does the majority of the housework have the least sex of all categories.

[–]NalkaNalkayou call it virtue, I call it cowardice4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup, take the maid pill.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

well... /thread

perfect summary

[–]UnbreakableFrame5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

While every woman is going to be different, it only makes biological sense that she's more sexually interested during particular parts of her cycle. Outside of wanting to be intimate and thinking it feels good, that is sort of the point.

[–]ex-turpi-causa5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because the risks in sex for women have historically and biologically been much higher (e.g. pregnancy). A man could have many children with multiple wives at the same time, but a woman can only get pregnant once at a time.

[–]SpaceWhiskey🍃 Social Justice Druid 🍂5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I've posted about this in PPD before but I'll say it again. I'm a woman with a high sex drive. Ever since puberty I have been among the horniest of my female friends based on the conversations I've had about sex with them. I've had a higher libido than several of my male partners. There was a time when I believed my sex drive rivaled men's.

However, thanks to the men of the internet, I have come to the conclusion that men do have higher drives than women based on the countless stories I've read about men who will have sex with women they don't like, women they aren't attracted to and in extreme cases women that aren't alive or animals/objects. I have trans friends who after taking testosterone have explained the difference of what it feels like to me and I believe them.

This also ties into my observation that (most) men's threshold for worthwhile sex is significantly lower than (most) women's. From what I've been told, for men sex is like pizza, even when it's bad it's good. For women, myself included, I would much rather not have sex at all then have bad sex. Bad sex isn't just lackluster or boring, it can be painful, even in non-traumatic scenarios.

So tl;dr, men seems to have much lower standards for both partners and what makes sex worth having. And since as a society we've come to the conclusion that women have bodily autonomy and rape is bad, the scenario in your OP is where we're at. As a feminist my solution to this problem is to continue to encourage women to find pleasure in sex, masturbation and their bodies and to discourage society as a whole from shaming women for wanting/liking/having sex. I'm sex positive and my partners have all been pretty pleased with my attitude towards things.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

in extreme cases women that aren't alive or animals/objects.

I did not expect this one.

I would much rather not have sex at all then have bad sex. Bad sex isn't just lackluster or boring, it can be painful, even in non-traumatic scenarios.

Indeed. Mechanically, the act of sex is almost inherently dangerous for the woman. And guys get off 99% of the time, so it's definitely pizza for us.

As a feminist my solution to this problem is to continue to encourage women to find pleasure in sex, masturbation and their bodies and to discourage society as a whole from shaming women for wanting/liking/having sex.

Perfect solution. Hopefully all it will take is time, granted the cultural trend of liberation continues. I think society as a whole will stop shaming women once certain generations of people pass away.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This also ties into my observation that (most) men's threshold for worthwhile sex is significantly lower than (most) women's. From what I've been told, for men sex is like pizza, even when it's bad it's good. For women, myself included, I would much rather not have sex at all then have bad sex. Bad sex isn't just lackluster or boring, it can be painful, even in non-traumatic scenarios.

I blame this part on men and excessive male thirst. We desperately need to tame this thirst.

[–]mistresswhat2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Women who tend to be more open to casual sexual relationships differentiate between positive, physical aspects of sex and relational and emotional aspects of a relationship to a greater extent. A quarrel about the dishes or who vacuumed last may therefore not be as crucial to whether the couple has intercourse.

lol @ n-count obsessed terps. We've been telling you this for years.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

lol @ n-count obsessed terps. We've been telling you this for years.

lmao. the secret all along was to wife a slut. the most counter intuitive idea!

[–]mistresswhat1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It was never counterintuitive. It makes sense that women who like sex when they're single like it when they're in relationships.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It was never counterintuitive.

It is for the male psyche. The trp rhetoric is that slutty women won't do the slutty things for you that she did in the past. Furthermore it was mentioned that

the findings may not apply to all cultures, Bendixen notes. They primarily apply to societies with more gender equality and female sexual control.

Another male fear is that slutty women might find boredom in one man. After all they spend their youth with various men... they're used to a lot of men and freedom, why would they want to tie themselves to one guy. If anything people need to embrace polyamory.

[–]mistresswhat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's not a male psyche problem, that's a neurotic problem. Which makes sense, since terps are all neurotic as hell.

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[–]loke2dabrainonthexans ☠1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

After a couple weeks of nofap a man's sex drive will basically disappear. Or at least this was my experience.

Had no interest in watching porn or masturbating or even talking to women most of the time. My sex drive would make a short comeback from time to time but it wasnt as strong as it usually was and it would fade away rather quickly.

Ofcourse I'm never going to know how it feels to be a woman since I'm a cis man. But my experience with a dead sex drive sort of helped me see gender dynamics in a different way.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

After a couple weeks of nofap a man's sex drive will basically disappear.

That's interesting! I wonder how common your experience is?

If I go without sex or masturbation for very long, I'll start having sex dreams. Yes, I can orgasm in my sleep. Look Ma, no hands!

[–]loke2dabrain 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

That also happens to me(minus the wet dreams) but only at first. Theres a period of maybe a week where if I don't masturbate my body will be begging me to do so all day and the sexual urges will build up to an almost unbearable level. During this time any form of sexual stimulation feels extra good and an orgasm feels extra strong.

But if I make it through that the urges start to fade. Even if I try to masturbate it just feels "meh".

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess I never made it through those days, lol.

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How did you get through work? Did you have to take time off?

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

After a couple weeks of nofap a man's sex drive will basically disappear.

My experience is different. I used to travel so I couldn't have sex with my gf for months, so I liked to save up big loads for her when I came back. I was horny as hell. But maybe it was the anticipation, and her awaiting my return that kept my drive up. idk.

[–]LethalShade2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My theory is that men are hornier but women enjoy (good) sex more in the moment. I feel like most men will be horny if they don't jack off/have sex for a day but most women can go longer.

[–]damaskrose 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Does this invalidate the notion that men and women have "equal" sex drives? Or do the sexes' libidos change because of factors such as long term relationships?

It's both. Domesticity dampens sex drive for both genders, but the difference is more noticeable with women since their sex drive was lower to begin with.

[–]Tiktakchu2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I am a woman, and don't think man and woman have equal sex drives. Hey, just because woman equality is a thing, doesn't mean it's always true.

I can sit with my male friend, talking a whole day about random stuff without seeing his face. But he can't. He needs to see me, my face, my chest, he ask about boyfriends, about relationship ect.

He keeps thinking about 'that'. For me i can think about that. I can get aroused, i can get turned on. BUT NOT ALL THE TIME.

I can live a whole month without thinking about sex. Even if i watch drama, or romantic views. There is also times, i get turned on easily for a week straight.

I need mood, nuance, certain man, i can't be randomly horny just by seeing sexy shirtless man.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can live a whole month without thinking about sex. Even if i watch drama, or romantic views. There is also times, i get turned on easily for a week straight.

If only we could alter men to become like this...

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I can sit with my male friend, talking a whole day about random stuff without seeing his face. But he can't. He needs to see me, my face, my chest, he ask about boyfriends, about relationship ect.

Just the way you described that made me laugh so hard for some reason lol.

[–]Tiktakchu0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Good or bad reason?

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

"He needs to see my chest" was the part in particular that made me laugh. Why would he need to see that?

[–]Tiktakchu0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't mean it as he says he need. It's just he just see it by default. Like casually checking me out.

[–]saronyogg2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sadly, it has very ancient biological precedents.

[–]HossMcDankEdgy Centrist2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Men have more testosterone (somewhere in the magnitude of 17-35 times that of women), plus -- or, perhaps, in correlation with -- the fact that women can reproduce only every nine months while men can impregnate women almost constantly.

The idea that men and women have equal sex drives is as mind-bogglingly ludicrous as the idea that men and women are equal in terms of physical strength or propensity for violence. The fact that people unironically believe it would be funny if it didn't say something disturbing about the lack of the most basic observational skills found in the general public.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The fact that people unironically believe it would be funny if it didn't say something disturbing about the lack of the most basic observational skills found in the general public.

it is pretty damn funny how people can lie to themselves. I believe some of the unironic equal sex drive believers have observation skills, but they rationalize it away because it doesn't fit in with their blank state world view. They always say something about how muh culture lets men embrace their sex drives, while muh culture restricts women's sex drives.

mind-bogglingly ludicrous as the idea that men and women are equal in terms of physical strength or propensity for violence.

Indeed. We're already so different physically. It's insane to think that testosterone filled powerhouses can have a similar libido to women. We've never seen a female Genghis Khan after all. No woman in power has amassed harems like men have.

[–]HossMcDankEdgy Centrist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Spot on. I'm not sure why, for many women, stating this obvious fact is taken as an insult.

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think Catherine the Great had a male harem.

[–]Impressive_Client3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Evolutionary biology at play here. For women the ultimate “cost” of a pregnancy is a lot higher for a woman. Think about ancient peoples, and how difficult a pregnancy would be on the family.

For a man, physiologically speaking, the cost is zero.

Therefore women are “programmed” by evolution to have discretion about how often (and with whom) they have sex.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Basic economics.

[–]ex-turpi-causa1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thomas Sowell is that you?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bazinga

[–]LillthOfBabylon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So now that it's common knowledge that women are the gatekeepers of sex, why is that the case?

No they're not. In fact, I find this insulting to male rape victims.
What you're not understanding is that women have lower sex drives. So that'll less likely ask it.

Does this invalidate the notion that men and women have "equal" sex drives?

Only three types of people deny this:

  1. Feminists
  2. TRP
  3. Girls with high sex drives.

Most people know this. It's called Testosterone.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It makes biological sense for a woman to have a high sex drive only for either a) men who are "pure alphas" who have great genes or b) men who are an alpha/beta combination who will provide good but not great genes for their offspring and also help provide for said offspring. Thus, women are very choosy about sexual partners, but when they find one who they like, their sex drives are often equal, and sometimes greater, than men's.

As for men initiating three times as often, this is because women's sex drives on average are more reactive when compared to a man's. Most likely this has something to do with a woman's fertility cycle. Studies have shown that women initiate sex more often when they are fertile, which is only a small percentage of the time in a given cycle, while men initiate at about the same frequency throughout a woman's cycle. My guess is that a woman's reactive sex drive is probably some evolutionary development to keep a man attached to her in order to potentially provide for her offspring even at times when she is not fertile and therefore has no innate evolutionary interest in having sex, since it would not create offspring.

[–]DXBrigade2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Cultural behaviours. Women are taught to be passive when it comes to sex.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Which is why women who start dosing themselves with exogenous testosterone start exhibiting drives closer to Men?

[–]ReversedGif0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Source? Who does this/what is this practice called?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/dp54xa/how-trans-men-deal-with-their-shifting-sexuality-129

https://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/cultural-animal/201012/the-reality-the-male-sex-drive

Ever notice how in almost every society on earth separated by time and space the vast majority of puchasers of sex were the Men and not the Women? Hell we even taught monkeys to use money and guess what happened, the females traded sex with the males for food. It will never change.

[–]LotBuilder1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lesbian bed death. The end.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A subtle killing blow, those three words are!

[–]trueorfalsedmitryred despite the handle1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because women LTR men they have limited sexual attraction to. This is because the men they do find most sexually attractive do not enter LTRs.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is because the men they do find most sexually attractive do not enter LTRs.

lol. Humans have been gifted with quite the predicament by mother nature.

[–]boomcheese440 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this is absolutely true. Not enough Alphas to go around.

Still, women do have lower sex drives than men.

[–]ariesv123Purple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

lolol I wish this were true with my relationship. It’s the other way around, reallyq

[–]axolotlass0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Men and women dont have equal sex drives though, and thats the answer to the question also.

Mens sexual drive is crazy and i think i got a taste of it, kind of? Last year i skipped my period, then i started to experience some problems like headaches, moodswings and increased libido. By increased i mean A LOT, i started to check out men on the streets, i started to notice men i’ve never noticed before. I was getting horny out of nowhere and this constant state of being horny as hell started to affect my daily life. I got a hormone test and it turns out my testosterone levels are higher than an average woman. The increase was minimal, my doctor prescribed birth control pills to get my period on the regular again and in two weeks i returned to my normal self.

Now i wonder is it how being a man feels like? If so, i pity them lol. Of course we can never understand how men feel but yeah its for certain they have a higher sex drive.

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Of course we can never understand how men feel

Just like how I could never truly understand your experience as a woman, sadly.

Now i wonder is it how being a man feels like? If so, i pity them lol

I can't properly measure horniess, but I think the base male experience is wanting to fuck an unholy number of women. So yeah it's probably what being a man is, thanks for your pity, not many on ppd understand.

[–]axolotlass2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

“base male experience is wanting to fuck an unholy number of women” hmm maybe my experience was not that similar of a mans then. Because it was not about wanting to fuck all of them, its just that the number of fuckable dudes increased but i still would fuck one of them, the number of sexual encounters would go higher, not sexual partners. This might be a personal choice but almost all women would have a lower number of sexual partners compared to men if both sexes were like 9/10, idk

Also sorry if it was rude for me to say i pity men, i was just being lighthearted

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

the number of sexual encounters would go higher, not sexual partners.

interesting.

This might be a personal choice but almost all women would have a lower number of sexual partners compared to men if both sexes were like 9/10, idk

I think so too. I think guys would become mini genhis khans if they all became 9/10.

Also sorry if it was rude for me to say i pity men, i was just being lighthearted

Haha, it's totally cool, no worries.

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your higher than average testosterone for a woman was still no where the level of the average man.

[–]SunflowerBurst1 in 12 Americans is unaware that the bird is the word0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If someone owns a shop they decide when it’s open or closed and when you may enter and occupy their space.

[–]mandoa_sky0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

well the biological punishment for women for having sex is higher than men so it's pretty "no shit sherlock"

[–]theoracleofosiris0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

One neg that will absolutely wreck her is to decline when she initiated sex. Especially the pretty ones. Because that’s the best card in their hand.

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

If you never, ever want her to initiate sex with you again, sure.

[–]theoracleofosiris0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sex is overrated. Power is the end goal.

[–]screenmagnet30F non-trad, HL, alt-feminist, PPW0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So you’d rather jerk off to the 48 Laws of Power than fuck girls?

[–]theoracleofosiris0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The golden goose that lays the golden eggs is more valuable than the eggs themselves

[–]TheBookOfSeilAn ounce of Snu Snu is worth a pound of cure0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A couple of reasons:

1) We live in a society

2) Women have to be coaxed into sex most of the time because they don’t want it as frequently as most men do. Therefore, if you have someone that wants sex and someone that doesn’t, you get this bottleneck situation.

I’m quite certain that the bottleneck hasn’t always existed because rape does exist even within our advanced civilization of bigly smart hoomans. I have a feeling that rape is more biological than anyone wants to admit since it’s something that’s considered morally reprehensible to even speak of, let alone say that people do it, would do it or have done it before.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

So now that it's common knowledge that women are the gatekeepers of sex, why is that the case?

Well, I suppose the guys could always go off and have sex with each other, but many don't seem too fond of that for some reason ...

[–]eyewant😋 grape suppository[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

grindr has entered the chat

[–]loke2dabrainonthexans ☠1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It is becoming more common as homophobia becomes less of a thing. Be careful what you wish for.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Don't think my man is gonna switch teams so no worries!

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

- said every woman who found out later her man was gay.

[–]loke2dabrainonthexans ☠0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Or bi

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]testpostignorepls-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They are not? I'm dating 4 women and sometimes they have to wait for me ...

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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