The bar on male physical attractiveness is set so high. Why do women rate most men as physically unattractive?

Lordb0lton · 2019-08-02T15:19:53+00:00

You're being judged on a photo online, as it's pretty difficult for a man to express the other factors that are attractive to women (dominance, charisma, etc.) over a digital profile.

Littleknownfacts · 2019-08-02T15:18:32+00:00

They rate pictures of men as mostly unattractive because women don't find still lifeless images attractive.

-TheGreasyPole- · 2019-08-02T15:46:00+00:00

Because women have a higher bar than men for evolutionary reasons.

A woman can have a specified number of kids, maximum (lets say 10). This is limited by her biology. She can have 1 partner, or 10 partners, or 100 partners.... and she's still going to have no more children than those 10.

As a result a woman's sex drive is orientated towards "Getting the best man she can to be the father of those 10 children" more or less.

Her drive is towards having the "best quality" within her limited reproductive capacity. This causes women to set a "high bar" for "attractive enough I want to sleep with him".

Men, on the other hand, are not limited by their biology. They are only limited by the biology of their partners. If they have 1 partner they can have 10 children. If they have 2 they can have 20. If they have 3 they can have 30. If they have 100 they can have a 1,000 children.

If you think I've "over egging it" by saying 1,000.... Take a look at Ismail Ibn Shairf. 525 sons, 324 daughters.

This is just not possible for a woman.

SO..... Men are orientated towards quantity in a way women are not. Sure, they'd like to sleep with the prettiest girl. But also to sleep with her uglier sister too. And that girl that serves in the kebab shop. And that girl that..... etc.

So their instincts are setup to give them a much lower bar for being attracted to a female. Sure they want the pretty one, but they want all the other less pretty ones too.

Any given Women's "attractiveness bar" is therfore going to appear incredibly high to any man assuming her instincts to be the same as his. It's going to appear she requires a much more attractive man than the male would expect based on his personal instincts for where "the attractiveness bar should be set".

So thats the bulk of your answer right there.

The rest of it is.... women are attracted to a whole range of features in males that is NOT just pure physical attractiveness. She finds the whole package attractive or not.

This causes a particular problem for catfishing experiments, in that almost all of the rest of these attributes are not present and can't be demonstrated online. Only looks can, effectively.

So wheras a woman might find a "male 8" attractive, a huge component of that "8" are attributes that will only contribute to that assessment in person. Maybe 50% of that is physical looks, 50% other factors.

If she's assessing guys online what is going to happen is those other factors are not available. So she's going to require that 100% of that "8" is made up by purely physical attraction alone to be interested. She's essentially going to pick out guys who are SO physically attractive, that they will reach her threshold whatever their other attributes are.

So women online gravitate to those highly attractive guys online much more than they do so in person. In person the "physical attractiveness 6" can make himself an "overall 8" by being witty, charming, dominant, ambitious, etc etc. and easily meet her bar. Online the "physical attractiveness 6" just stays a 6, and she's not interested.

Finally, there is another factor here. Simply that women don't usually approach/initiate the interaction (for various reasons, mostly evolutionary too).

So if you're grading them on "what is required to get her to approach/message me first" and your assuming that is "the level you have to be to be attractive to her" you are almost certainly over-calibrating.

Going back to our woman who is attracted to 8's. She'd be happy to sleep with an 8, but she's almost certainly going to require him to "make the moves" and approach her. To actually go and contact/message HIM he's going to have to be basically a 9 or 10 for her to overcome that instinctive preference. So god awfully attractive that she just can't help herself. To get her to approach the guy he'll have to sail over her bar, be so far above it as to make her approaching desirable.

So, TL:DR.

Most of it is (you are right) women's standards are higher. There are good evolutionary reasons why this is the c ase, and this is not "optional" it's likely thats instinctive in a way she can't consciously overcome.

The remainder is.... Online interactions are going to be MUCH more unbalanced towards the guys who can effectively "get all of their attractiveness from looks" than they are in real life.... and on top of that in requiring girls to work the same way boys do in regards to approaching. You are taking her "make a move on HIM" bar to be the same as "I would be interested if he made a move on ME" bar. And the first bar is way higher than the second.

jessicaannpin · 2019-08-02T16:38:33+00:00

My current view is this. To tingle her vingle a guy has to be much hotter than a woman for a guy to tingle his dongle.

This means that women aren't as thirsty as men (basic biology) and women don't need to. It's natural. It's pretty logical too from evolutionary perspective and it gives uglier guys a chance to stand out from the rest of lazy men playing video games and whining on incel forums by going to fucking gym, getting jacked and become greek gods, even though they can still appear having ugly face.. but those muscles, man, no matter what women say, they love touching them. It's masculine. Ignore what women say. Watch what they do.

Sure muscles are not enough. Don't get false idea. It's just first step into transforming yourself into desirable man.

So it's possible to flip the script. Provided you don't use tinder as your sole experiment. On tinder it's easier to overlook nice body. So tinder experiments prove shit. They are incomplete. They give only 1/3 of a picture. Women prefer nice face over ugly face. Who would have thought?

But with muscles, charming personality, assertiveness, confidence, green paper and game one can snap almost any woman. In real life.

This is the truth. Easier said than done but it gives a lot of room for nuance. And incels hate this. OP gonna hate and disagree with me because it's easier to cry and whine that world is unfair. Women aren't doing it (picking most attractive males on tinder) on purpose. At least not 100 percent. They can't change the game like that. They see beauty, they choose beauty. In real life when you approach girls, suddenly their value system changes (as it seems). They start to value more intangible things compared to what's offered on tinder. And that's where and ugly guy can cash in with his greek body, confidence and taking no shit from no hoe. That's ultimately attractive to women.

There is no bar. It's artificial. If you want failure keep using tinder for your experiments. If you want success, approach it from different angle. But it requires hard work on yourself. Lazy men stay lazy.

learn2earn89 · 2019-08-02T16:04:23+00:00

I would agree that each woman is interested in maybe 20% of guys. BUT each women’s idea of “top 20%” is VASTLY DIFFERENT.

Every single one of my friends has different taste in guys. I like the standard tall muscular guy. One of my friends PREFERS guys shorter than her. One of my friends only likes skinny guys. One of my friends only likes chubby guys. This is not just my friends but something that is consistent with all women, from what I have heard in conversation and seen on the internet.

Guys should take this to be a good thing, as this means that the less “standardly attractive” guys are genuinely top 20% for at least a portion of women out there.

poison-fang-blade · 2019-08-02T17:49:24+00:00

The Red Pill does say that game gets women attracted to you, but it seems like the game is only tricking her into an aroused emotional state

Don't think so, it's just that game only gets you so far. Game alone won't get you laid. Looks always matter. The better your looks, the less "game" you need.

goatismycopilot · 2019-08-02T15:31:15+00:00

Most men are not very attractive. When men here post pictures of men that they think women think are hot/attractive they are wrong.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-08-02T15:18:49+00:00

when asked just to rate photos women can almost never see body language, presence, smell, tone of voice, stature, bearing, posture and all the millions of things WOMEN are calibrated to honing in on for attraction

if i had just seen a bare picture of 99% of the men i had sex with on tinder i would never have given them a second glance. the sexual attractiveness of men cannot be captured in a photograph

also, most men are sexually invisible until they engage in seduction behaviors

TradiWaifu · 2019-08-02T18:52:38+00:00

There is soooo much that goes into the attractiveness of a man. It really isn’t all physical and certainly not captured in a still photo.

squadfleekgoalz · 2019-08-02T19:42:00+00:00

Uh, dude here...because dudes are gross.

THE_MASKED_DOWNVOTTO · 2019-08-02T17:20:27+00:00

First you say " However, the women who send me messages range from average looking to ugly - nothing especially good looking. "

and then go on to say

" Why do women rate most men as physically unattractive? Or at least not attractive enough to want sex with them, without some other pre-requisite being involved such as alcohol or the man having a good job or high status. "

You literally do the same thing.

But I digress. OP. There is no manifesto out there that tells women to rate the average guy as unattractive. There's no propaganda or religion out there that spreads this message. We're just using our eyes and our crotches. You either are or are not attractive. It's as simple as that :( :(

that sucks though. Quick question. How old are you and how old were the "average to ugly looking" women you met online?

constantcube13 · 2019-08-02T16:01:21+00:00

While women rate more harshly on attractiveness, they are much more willing to date people that aren’t physically attractive, if they have an attractive personality (imo)

What I mean by this is, a good looking guy with a boring personality will be outshone by a worse looking guy with a great personality. I will admit the worse looking guy has to try harder, but it is true. However, while guys are more likely to rate an average girl as attractive.... they are less likely to date a girl they deem physically unattractive girl

However, don’t get the term ‘great personality’ confused with being a ‘nice guy’ ... they are very different.

You have to play your strengths... so if a macho goodlooking dude is just a ‘nice guy’ that might work for him bc his physique is already masculine enough to provide what a woman is looking for.

If you are obese, short, unattractive, feminine voice, etc. you will have to have a more masculine attitude to give the majority of females the masculinity they desire... but in my experience it works. I have some ugly ass friends that have great game, and some goodlooking friends that can never seal the deal even tho he has the initial advantage

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-08-02T16:25:26+00:00

If this is the physical beauty standard that you require to get average women interested

i dotn know what has occured with all of you to create this. this is the standard required to GET WOMEN TO INITIATE which they will almost NEVER do EVEN with CHAD

MEN are the pursuers. who told you all that the mark of male attractiveness is BEING pursued by women?

ive IOIed alterna-Chad til i almost broke my own neck, but i STILLL never PURSUED him openly and aggressively and directly

youre being sold a bill of goods by someone. if youre looking to BE pursued as a mark of attractiveness youre fucked

OiLoveMoiBrick · 2019-08-03T12:56:05+00:00

I think this says more about the looks-heavy tyranny of online hookup sites like Tinder than anything else.

Those of us guys who aren't aesthetically blessed would be better of going to real life events such as those set up on Meetup.com and meeting and getting to know women that way, where our looks exist alongside our personalities and the connections we make with others.

kandyapplez · 2019-08-02T16:05:24+00:00

because most men are unattractive. they don't present themselves as desirable beings. women literally grow up grooming themselves for desirability in a way that few men do. everything from our hair to our faces to the clothes we wear to our bodies are designed to present as desirable. how many men can you say are that intentional about their desirability?

i noticed that when i was in sweden, denmark and norway i found a much much higher proportion of the guys attractive because more of them seemed to present with desirability in mind.

NeedRealityShock · 2019-08-02T22:34:23+00:00

Think about this. For most of human history, sex for a man meant having a good time and a chance to pass on his genes

While for a woman it meant a good chance to pass on her genes, 9 months of physical disability and higher maintenance, a chance to die on childbirth and an extended period of vulnerability in which survival chance for the kid depended as well on the father's genetic fitness

Kouki_S14 · 2019-08-02T16:26:13+00:00

Your logic doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me. You’re complaining about women judging by looks, yet you’ve stated you get messages from average to ugly looking women. You’ve done exactly the same as those you’re complaining about 🤦‍♂️

JosephZheng111 · 2019-08-02T16:15:16+00:00

I experimented with different pictures of good looking guys. In general I dont think there a lot of women on online dating sites besides bots and dating site employees

meeselbon573 · 2019-08-02T15:56:31+00:00

It is hilarious all of the excuse making in the comments—grasping at straws to say women aren’t really like that. They are. Women are cruel in how they judge men.

graaarg · 2019-08-02T19:32:08+00:00

It's Just biology. You are just describing natural selection at work here

rhyth7 · 2019-08-03T00:13:46+00:00

Most men do not try or do not know how to maximize their good looks. The only time I see men trying to improve their appearance on a large scale is when they are either in high school or college. When I was in hs and college most guys put way more effort into their appearance and health compared to men in the workforce.

Also the groups of men who seem to put a lot of effort into their looks are people in frats or sports, UMC, or are a minority like Latino, Asian, and Black. Those men seem very interested in how they look, they have an interest in fashion and finding what angles look best in photos, they always want crisp and clean clothes, they're sneakerheads and like brands. They actively follow those things. They have their hair gelled and styled. They have clear skin from good diet amd may even use some skincare products too, they wear cologne and smell nice.

People in the categories I named invest in themselves more. They're not nursing a beer belly or eating garbage. They don't think it's emasculating to care about what they're wearing or how they look. If you don't care about fashion or skincare or about health then don't be sad when you're picked over for that. Most men say they don't care about living past fifty and their lifestyles show that.

crackrocksteady7 · 2019-08-02T16:53:47+00:00

I was just talking to an Indian dev with a crazy acne breakout all over his face that was bothering me. I dont think any woman who hadn't completely given up would just let that happen without freaking out and dumping half a pharmacy on her face until it went away

[deleted] · 2019-08-02T16:43:00+00:00

I think it's just way easier to be attractive as a woman. I've always operated on the rule that women need two things out of a good face, nice body, or pleasant personality to be attractive to most men. Whereas men can only be missing one out of height, good face, nice body, hair, sociability, status if they want to be considered attractive to most women.

wtknight · 2019-08-02T15:30:05+00:00

This is why an online chat room is a much better place to meet someone than an online dating site. A chat plus a picture of a guy will give a woman a much better impression of a guy than just a picture itself. A guy will have to be either exceptionally attractive or have some kind of indicator of high status to make an impression on a woman based upon a picture alone.

TradiWaifu · 2019-08-02T18:51:07+00:00

Most men actually look the same to me.

openlystupid · 2019-08-02T21:43:27+00:00

Although I feel that women don't value physical attractiveness as much as us men do.

ArcheryDude101 · 2019-08-02T21:44:27+00:00

You are trying to compare the women standards of attractiveness to the male standards of attractiveness, which you can't really do, because they are like apples and oranges. Women tend to get attracted by someone's personality more than their looks. In this sense, game is perfectly fine, because it's what they want you to do.

mrchoon · 2019-08-03T05:33:13+00:00

Looks are only a small part of what makes men attractive

ginwithbutts · 2019-08-03T06:45:23+00:00

Maybe we should stop thinking of attractiveness as where 50% of the population is below 5/10 and 50% is above 5/10. Maybe men are just ugly and like 80% of men are below 5/10.

droolunderpressure · 2019-08-03T07:18:17+00:00

Have a walk around in public and count the number of fat, smelly, poorly dressed, insecure, unhygienic men with no determination in life.

FjamsDK · 2019-08-03T07:33:05+00:00

The bar on male physical attractiveness is set so high. Why do women rate most men as physically unattractive?

Don't rely on dubious statistics from online dating portals. They do not give an accurate picture of the real world. Go out and you'll see all kinds of attractive women who have chose to be with men which are considerable less attractive than themselves. Looks don't matter that much to women as long as you're not a deformed midget.

Whisper · 2019-08-03T16:00:39+00:00

Because of the combination of two factors:

First, women are the gatekeepers of sex. Second, male attractiveness is mostly behavioural.

Because of the first, women are hardwired to assume that men are unattractive until proven otherwise. Because of the second, a photograph isn't enough to show attractiveness except in extreme edge cases.

jessicaannpin · 2019-08-02T15:18:24+00:00

Evolutionarily speaking a good looking man does little for a woman. A strong and masculine man can offer protection from other men, but in order to offer protection by definition you have to be well above average. A man average or in the 60 percentile can’t defend you from anyone else as much as another average man. A man in the top 10 percentile though can ward of many men

Additionally, women are wired to want men on status, social standing, ability to provide. These things are often not innate but can be displayed through conversation

amber224 · 2019-08-02T17:41:05+00:00

Because men are lazy and don't put effort into male beauty.Also men discourage each other from putting effort into their looks.I don't date ugly menBecause men are lazy and don't put effort into male beauty.Also men discourage each other from putting effort into their looks.I don't date ugly men unless they're richBecause men are lazy and don't put effort into male beauty.Also men discourage each other from putting effort into their looks.I don't date ugly menBecause men are lazy and don't put effort into male beauty.Also men discourage each other from putting effort into their looks.I don't date ugly men unless they're rich.

squadfleekgoalz · 2019-08-02T19:44:39+00:00

Because men are not that attractive.

crackrocksteady7 · 2019-08-02T15:46:16+00:00

Sperm is cheap eggs are expensive the end. Make yourself high value

Fizney · 2019-08-02T15:54:19+00:00

Women are mostly praised for being pretty. Men are mostly praised for their achievements. It's been like this for a long time. It's no wonder we're still subconsciously wired to think 'women pretty. men work' to the point that it takes a lot more for a man to be considered very attractive. It works vice versa in that it takes a lot more work from a woman to be seen as hard working in her field of work than a man.

(edit: though an attractive woman in her work will probably be more noticed due to her being pretty)

strangelovesglasses · 2019-08-02T15:24:29+00:00

most men aren’t amazing to look at its as simple as that and they’re nothing amazing. women objectify men as accessories a lot time and if you’re not going to make her look better or raise her social status or add anything to her life then they’re not going to talk to you.

from another perspective women on average add a lot more to a man’s life and most women aren’t going to hinder their social standing too much if they’re not quality or they offer something men like a lot that being sex.

brian_bore_u · 2019-08-02T15:54:43+00:00

The simple answer is hypergamy.

ontherailstoday · 2019-08-02T16:46:50+00:00

Why? Well... why not?

red_matrix · 2019-08-02T17:35:49+00:00

The simplest answer I can give is men and women are opposites: yin and yang, you know what I mean?

The male’s penis is his spear, he’s on the attack. A woman’s “flower” is inviting, she attracts men to it with sugar and honey.

Men are on the hunt, they cast a wide net, male thirst is strong which is why they will bang anything that moves. Men are chasers.

Women don’t attack, they’re emotive. That’s why through the ages women spend so much time looking pretty, they dress to impress and wear makeup and all that to attract their mate of desire. Subtle signaling is their game. Women are choosers.

thasixohfour · 2019-08-02T19:33:33+00:00

Some of it is that women are just as delusional as men. Take someone like Rebel Wilson, she would definitely want some of that Jason Momoa D, even though she's a two at best. Or Lena Dunham, who accosted Brad Pitt on the red carpet. Imagine a man of her equally subpar looks, doing the same thing to Scarlet Johanson. Low quality women have become as out of touch as incels, they just aren't violent about it.

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thundrthy · 2019-08-02T19:57:52+00:00

Women arnt good at judging men on looks alone. we care about social status, skills, humor. We just want a guy who is better at life than we are.

It seems that men care much more about looks alone than women. Men want the hottest woman they can find without her being a complete psycho.

IAMA124 · 2019-08-02T23:22:58+00:00

Well... I mean... most women I see when I'm out are pretty unattractive to me tbh.

Thinkingard · 2019-08-03T02:02:33+00:00

On the internet it's a sellers market, and the sellers are women. The buyers, men, can only choose between so many girls selling (someone they'd be willing to meet), compared to how many men are buying (men will buy just about anything, so demand is always high). IRL I mostly see couples who are about the same on the SMV chart. Couples, mind you. People who simply hook up, who knows, because they are difficult to spot IRL.

jmitch88 · 2019-08-03T02:29:11+00:00

Your findings with the catchfish profile explains a lot. You just need to read between the lines. You posted a top 5% attractive male picture. Your most responsive catches were decent to ugly. Women are driven to date up. There are many other factors of why low attractive women take shots or are very forward with a traditionally attractive male but it plays into knowing where they stack up and needing to overcome that deficit.

Also women are not as visually excited as men. This explains why women have such a higher bar for physical attraction. It just takes more to get them going.

You said little to none of the replies to your catch fish where very attractive. This goes back to the lifetime difference between attractive and unattractive women and how the world interact with them and they with the world. Attractive women seldom make the first move and even less so from an online profile. These women have a very different view of dating and almost always fall for a guy for a combined set of reasons. Looks would get him in the door of their interest to investigate if he fills most of their preferences and zero red flags(all subjective to the woman in question). An attractive woman has a whole tool box of ways to get into the targets sphere then attractive his attention. Once she has it she will offer hints and clues that she is interested in him.

pnadlerlaw · 2019-08-03T02:45:41+00:00

You realize that’s a double-edged sword, right?

Unlike women, you can actually become a 9-10 as a man just by dieting and going to the gym. Once you’re even a 9, as a man, you’re like in the top 5% of all men. You have your pick of injured bird 7s, submissive 8s, down to earth 9s, and slightly mentally disturbed 10s.

On the other hand, do you have any idea how many female 9s there are? Add the fact that men are flexible and not as egotistical when it comes to the minimum they’re willing to reasonably accept from the other person, and those 9s don’t really have THAT MUCH MORE bargaining power than 7s or 8s, or THAT MUCH LESS than near perfect 10s.

sunsinclair · 2019-08-03T04:15:57+00:00

My feeling is this. As a guy to be attractive you have to be above average IN SOME WAY. On an online profile almost the only way to stick out is your picture. Profile matters a bit but honestly most people are such bad writers pictures really are like 1000 words.

But meeting people in real life you can stick out in other ways.

SpecialSpnk · 2019-08-03T04:26:15+00:00

Do yourself a favor.... Go onto the real trp and search Tinder. There is a genius tech written in there that will help lay it out for you.

I am by no means a male model nor am I tall. I am in good shape and look fairly sexy. Once I changed up my pictures and profile I am now rolling in likes... Literally I match 5-10 women a day if I am on it. I have 99+ likes in my match cue... Read that shit and learn it. There is a reason TRP WORKS

It was never like that until I changed what wasn't working. But now I have oneitis like a lil bitch and even fucking a chick in the ass for an hr straight dom style doesn't cut into the emptiness I feel rn.

fevertree · 2019-08-03T09:57:22+00:00

Those statistics are based on tindr...where women are just looking to hook up based on a photo. Insofar as women are not as thirsty for sex as men 1. They select hookups based entirely on the photo. And 2. They’ll only do it if a prospect is physically appealing.

mandoa_sky · 2019-08-03T11:28:37+00:00

i don't care how hot he is. if he doesn't have a decent amount of detail in his profile, i don't swipe right.

if he fails to hold a decent convo, i always ghost.

slavicgypsygirl · 2019-08-04T00:45:07+00:00

Men I consider unattractive are often very attractive to other women & vice versa

I just have a certain type

glasraen · 2019-08-04T02:19:36+00:00

The bar is set high because we don’t actually care that much. For most women, so much more than physical attractiveness goes into the equation for being interested in a guy. I’m sure it’s impossible for most men to understand, but when physical attractiveness is maybe only 15-20% of the equation IF THAT, for us to “rate a man as physically attractive” he has to be hot enough for us to actually notice.

It’s like asking someone who doesn’t like cats to rate how cute your cat is. Your cat has to be hella cute to even register on the radar of someone who simply doesn’t care in general about how cute cats are.

Edit: I just read beyond the title and if your question is based on dating profile pics, yeah, the data is going to be quite skewed. As I said, in real life, so much more goes into the equation, but when a woman essentially ONLY has a picture to go by.... yeah, gosh I just don’t know how else to simplify it for you: the data is going to be skewed.

LillthOfBabylon · 2019-08-05T11:44:12+00:00

that women rate approximately 80% of men as below average - that's just below average by the way. Maybe only 5% of all men are considered to be good looking by women. The bar is set so high for male beauty, hardly any man qualifies for it.

And? If you haven't noticed, women dont put looks at a high priority.

But the men who do qualify for it get a lot of attention and a lot of sex.

And?

With my normal pictures, I get no messages from women.

Are you trying to date or hookup?

Any replies I do get, the woman gets quickly bored and stops replying or blocks me.

So it's your personality. AND YOU TRIED CATFISHING PEOPLE. Definitely a personality problem.

However, the women who send me messages range from average looking to ugly - nothing especially good looking.

Definitely a personality problem.

no wonder men find it so tough.

- Complains about being lonely.

- Scoffs when average looking girls talk to you.

Definitely a personality problem.

Or at least not attractive enough to want sex with them,

If I'm just trying to get a one night stand, why would I choose a guy that I find unattractive?

without some other pre-requisite being involved such as alcohol or the man having a good job or high status.

r/ChoosingBeggars

TrueReligionGenes · 2019-08-05T17:05:32+00:00

Its simply how sexual selection works. Its not a one to one looksmatch fairy tale. Its more a winner take all competition where everything has to go right developmentally, and there's very little room for error along the way.

To be hot as a male, you need to have a sexually dimoprhic face and build. Forward grown maxilla, long ramus, low gonial angle, prominent zygos, large skull, wide clavicles, thick neck, height, etc. (whereas these things can boost a womans looks but arent absolutely required). Testosterone and hgh is taxing on the nervous system/immune system and not every male has the genetic or environmental capacity to develop the requisite masculinity to be considered universally attractive by the female sexual instinct. It's a very complex topic, but it basically boils down to having "it" , which i like to think of as a very strong masculine spiritual essence that manifests as a sexually worthy male. Women select for these essences, and they are for the most part rare in the human male population.

folasanmi · 2019-08-07T23:29:06+00:00

Thing is most guys have the wrong definition of attractiveness. You don’t have to have male model looks with a perfectly square jaw and six pack abs to be attractive ( although that helps no doubt). You just need tot have a look and it needs to make sense. Are you in shape? How do your clothes fit, are you well groomed? How do your teeth look, your smell. Just your overall look.

I think if some guys took care of this, they would go up 2 points easy.

But yeah since tinder and all these other apps are strictly looks then it’s harder for males to succeed unless you are too whatever percent in looks. I think black pill guys use tinder as a means to justify “ all girls care about is looks when that’s not that true

[deleted] · 2019-08-09T23:05:14+00:00

Don’t worry; I’m in my 40s, and get some response from my photos. But the quality of both the messages and people messaging me is so low it’s basically worthless. People who misspell my name, take ages to reply to messages, or get hung up on stupid shit early on blows my mind. I honest can say that a large majority of women on these apps are undateable. It’s just a buzzkill trying to engage with them, even when they Initiate. Good quality women don’t go on these apps; they don’t need to.

duckylilaa · 2019-08-15T23:03:42+00:00

I'm curious where your statistics come from. Personally, I've always been pretty eclectic in what I considered to be a good looking man. I had a thing for the chubby, hairy guys who look like bears. My best friend likes the slender bony guys with glasses. My husband is handsome and has a great moustache but I do find him attractive when he puts on a little weight. I don't know if I ask my female friends (In our late twenties and early thirties) I think we all like men who aren't your typical male underwear model. I think people are receptive to little details more than they are to a perfect physique so don't feel defeated!

shonenhikada · 2019-08-02T17:08:00+00:00

Because sperm is cheap and eggs are valuable. Because even a 4/10 female will be swarmed by 5-6/10 males asking her out and wanting to commit to her. Because so many men are white knight betas that do things for women just because they are women. Hell, there is this story of a 5/10 female that made 30k in a month from selling her adult exclusive snapchat. So yeah. If men want it to stop, males have to control their thirstyness and stop white knighting nearly every damn female and calling every 4/10 female in reality a god damn goddess.

DownvotedFreethinker · 2019-08-02T21:50:21+00:00

Idk as a "good looking" male. I think that that 80 % nonsense is bullshit. I only consider myself to b an 8.... and since I'm an arrogant s.o.b that must mean I'm a 7.5. I don't have abs and I dont have huge muscles. What I do have is a uniform and a steady paycheck that is above average. But yea women tell me im a 9 or a 10. What u need to understand, as I do, is that women cant help but lie. That's all they do and they r actually trained by society to do so. I get hit on all the time. It happens enough to where it isnt a conversation to have with anyone about... nothing out of the ordinary. Havent you ever wondered why male strippers wear uniforms and female strippers dont?

-Mavs · 2019-08-02T21:55:57+00:00

That 20/80 number for men always made me think if women didn't have makeup to hide behind, the number would be the same for women, that only 20% of females would be attractive to men and 80% are unattractive.

hanniebunches · 2019-08-02T23:26:37+00:00

Men don’t have a good grasp of aesthetics

jessicaannpin · 2019-08-02T18:04:07+00:00

I think maybe is bc women are slut shamed so much.

Try this thought experiment:

There 100 women. You can have sex with 50 of them. When asked to rate who is and isn’t attractive, how picky will you be?

Now imagine you can only have sex with 5 of these 100 women or you will be severely penalized and shamed. Now, when asked to rate who is and isn’t attractive, how picky will you be?

Women have lower sexual desire on average, yes. This is a fact, regardless of how politically incorrect it may sound to some. And finding less men attractive is a symptom of that.

Is lower desire in women a function of biology or culture? Its possible that it is both. People often identify an issue with eggs being more expensive than sperm. However, I think the effect of culture is tremendous.

What I think is going on with women who are asked to give a “yes” or a “no” regarding attraction is that they are conditioned to be picky due to restrictions placed on female sexuality by society. To be too open to sexual encounters is to make oneself the target of slut shaming.

If you ask men to say “yes” or “no” regarding whether a woman is attractive enough for a relationship, I think you might observe a similar level of pickiness as is seen with women.

Personally, I have access to, say, the top 5% of men. Maybe the top 0.5% of men are out of my league, but I rarely encounter a guy who isn’t interested based on my looks alone (and then I let out the crazy, mwahahaha). Because I have access to very high quality men, I choose very high quality men for relationships.

When it comes to casual sex, however, I am less picky. This is because I let go of slut shaming around age 27, so I have no qualms about having sex when I want, just because I’m horny. Often, I will prioritize convenience, safety, and efficiency in casual sex encounters. The truth is I only really need a guy to be attractive enough. And how attractive is attractive enough in a given moment depends on my level of hormones and options at the time.

Picking a casual partner is liking finding a pair of shoes to match a dress at the last minute for an event you have the same day. You only have time to go to 1-2 stores. You can’t order them online. Chances are you’ll have to overpay and make do with a pair of shoes that isn’t up to your normal standards. You’ll do this because you have to get shoes in a matter of hours. For women who allow themselves to seek out sex when they want it, a lower standard is needed, just as when shopping for shoes at the last minute. This is especially the case when seeking out sex on vacation, or in a new city.

This is different than impulse buying the perfect shoes you are lucky enough to run into, which is how casual sex works in cases where women are approached for casual sex by men of higher quality than they normally get. Women who only have this type of casual sex are still restricted by slut shaming, only making exceptions for the most high quality men. These women will exhibit high pickiness restricted only to men of relationship quality.

However, my ego still keeps the sample of men I sleep with relatively high compared to the total range of men I’m actually attracted to. This is because I want to feel like a highly desirable female, and dating and hooking up with high quality men supports that narrative.

Also, attraction isn’t really like an on or off switch. It is a spectrum. I’ve noticed that the sex is better the more attracted I am to my partner. Insofar as my goal is to optimize the quality of my sexual encounters, I prefer to have sex with the most attractive men I can get. Other factors that affect the quality of sex for me personally include penis size, athleticism, kinkiness, and skills.

Sometimes if I learn a guy has skills and/or is well endowed, I will sleep with him even if he’s not that physically attractive. Sometimes I feel like I can sense it so I’ll try making out with a guy, then let him finger me and see how he does. This is slutty of me, but it’s a way for me to uncover guys with special talents I appreciate (only about 5% of men can make me squirt, for example). I’m getting off track ...

Back to my point. The truth is, if I were put on a deserted island with just two randomly selected dudes, the odds are I’d be attracted to at least one of them.