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Here is the article, it's quite long so I will quote several sections of interest.

After 50 years of decline, the number of young women “discerning the religious life”—or going through the long process of becoming a Catholic sister—is substantially increasing.

They’re also younger: The average age for taking the final step into the religious life a decade ago was 40. Today, it’s 24. They’re disproportionately middle children, often high-flying and high-achieving. Typical discernment stories on blogs or in the Catholic press start with lines like “she played lacrosse and went to Rutgers” or she was “a Harvard graduate with a wonderful boyfriend.”

These young women have one last surprise: They tend to be far more doctrinally conservative than their predecessors.

Patrice Tuohy, the publisher of guides for people considering the religious life, including VocationMatch.com, told me that not long ago she used to get only about 350 queries a year by phone and online. Last year, she got 2,600. And 60 percent of those women, Tuohy said, explicitly asked if they could join an order that would force them to wear a habit. (Currently, only about 20 percent of sisters in America wear one.)

I have several theories on why young women are reacting like this.

Firstly, the tough economy and increasing competitiveness of school is putting crushing pressure on young people, especially girls, as they are much more driven to please and live up to the standards that authority figures set up. I think our school system is essentially becoming Asianized. Soon we'll have suicides when test scores are posted and IV drips during exams. This is producing a generation of kids who are burnouts, not rebels. Significant difference there. A few key sections from the article that support this theory are as follows.

She (millenial becoming a nun) has found her “passion.” She has “rest,” “fulfillment,” “enthrallment,” “completion”—precisely the things that I, exhausted, have often wanted. There are a lot of recent books—and Twitter accounts, and blogs—written for women discerning to become nuns. They, too, sounded uncannily like the voice in my own head that whispers to me late at night all the things I wished my parents or partners or colleagues would say. Words of quiet affirmation and acceptance I had, in fact, almost never dared to ask for.

Nothing is ever enough,” Dubay writes of how it feels to live in the modern world. You are expected to give yourselves entirely, 24/7, without wavering, to careers, to hobbies, to lovers, to children. Ideally, you are supposed to spend zero time not loving your job in a dying industry or your husband who fails to absorb the concept of emotional labor. But this is impossible.

Almost ferociously cheerful at school, she came home one day, sat down at the kitchen table with her mother, and jabbed at her heart. “I hurt,” she said. “I am forced to do what I’m not good at every single day.”

(This one strikes especially close to home. Modern society isn't freeing women to find fulfillment in female ways, it's crushing them with pressure to struggle through male roles - roles, incidentally, that men are already long checked out of via video games and general apathy)

My next theory is that this is a reaction to the lack of security perceived by modern young women. These are the children of divorce. Getting married is no reassurance that he'll take care of you, and in this economy, he can't even do that before he leaves you. Women are grappling with the pressure of having to replace the security that men once brought to their lives, either through building a career, or joining a convent, or chucking antidepressants by the handfuls and spending time in mental health inpatient facilities, etc. Here are example quotes from a couple of the young nuns profiled:

 “There is nothing consistent in the secular world,” Rachael reflected. Catholicism, by contrast, taught that “truth is a fact.”

“The level of anxiety and sadness these kids have, I don’t think we can even understand it at this point,” Olon said. “I think there are things these kids are experiencing now that we don’t even have names for.”

Tori had been a “huge Daddy’s girl” growing up. Her favorite memories as a kid involve hiking with him. “I was on mountaintops before I could even walk,” she said. But then, when she was 7, her parents sat down with her and her older brother, Adam. “‘You know how you two love each other?’” she remembered them saying. “‘But, somehow, you need your space from your brother? And sometimes you like to get away? Well, Mommy and Daddy need space like that.’” Tori was shattered. Her mother received primary custody in the divorce settlement, and Tori didn’t see her father much anymore. For years after that, she and Adam were especially close, but then, as a teenager, he abandoned the family, too.

How is she supposed to feel any stability or security in her life after going through that? (Note: I'm not blaming her dad, regardless of whose fault the divorce was, it's devastating to a child). From the perspective of young women, the future looks like a long depressing slog of working full-time while also managing the house and caring for children in an increasingly harsh economy, where her family's social status is increasingly insecure, accompanied by increasingly uncommitted and unhelpful men. I can totally understand the temptation of a life of calm, peaceful security. I'd join a nunnery and be the official convent windchime-hanger if I wasn't already married. It sounds lovely.

What do you think?

For the record, this post happens to be focusing on a young female phenomenon. I'm not making any statements one way or another about whether boys experience the same, different, or worse pressures discussed above. I'm sure that would make for an interesting discussion too but it's not really relevant to this particular post


[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave28 points29 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

From one of the women’s prayer diaries:

even if you were completely incapacitated and incapable of work, your identity and worth would be completely intact.

This is written as a message from God to her. This quotation ties in with the excerpt you quoted about the expectation to throw oneself enthusiastically into every endeavor, 24/7, with enjoyment; that our value comes from accomplishing tasks well.

Even hobbies, supposed to be relaxing, turn into mommy wars on Pinterest for the best organized kitchen and artistic planner. Even activities that don’t have defined checkbox accomplishments, well, you have to be filled with joy to be doing it right.

We have as a culture devalued the role of SAHMs who literally raise the next generation, as having no value at all, because the task can’t be measured, and it isn’t competing in the male accomplishment matrix the way women are now supposed to, as you said.

What does all this mean? An increasingly utilitarian culture. Your value is based on how much you can do. And how well you can do it. You can’t even enjoy artsy fun hobbies if you try to share it on Pinterest or Facebook; its a contest. Parenting is a contest.

People are tired of only being valued for their output and measurable accomplishments. The loss of religion and the loss of the idea that there is a human condition and that we need fulfillment, means people do not feel that just being a human BEING is good enough.

Suddenly entering a convent seems enticing. They are telling you there is a quiet routine, that the very act of praying and contemplating, is infinitely valuable. There is zero measurable output of those activities in the world. But being meditative isn’t called wasting time, in the convent. Even in the secular circles that are pro meditation, it’s still an immense pressure to do it right. There are endless apps that promise good sleep and meditation. Just another task to check off and log in your phone. Not so in the monastery.

The journal entry says it all. The women is reflecting on belief in a god and a community who says her value is her being, her existence and consciousness, her ability to love and be loved; not on how practically useful she is to the world. In a consumerist and utilitarian culture, that is enticing.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 8 points9 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Beautiful comment

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave10 points11 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

When I went on a retreat to a contemplative convent, the head nun there told me that she’s often tired because they wake up so early for matins, but that she has the sense of “doing exactly what I’m supposed to be doing and being exactly where I’m supposed to be.” That seems like a pretty priceless feeling, especially compared to a world of pushing yourself to do more be better climb higher and so forth.

I’d recommend the retreat experience for everyone, if they want a break that isn’t just a fast-paced vacation.

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I went to a Buddhist Monastery in rural Mississippi last weekend, they had an open house. It was not a large place but they did have a beautiful and amazing meditation hall and I think I will find a retreat to go to. They did a Q&A with one of the nuns who basically said she wanted to be happy and peaceful and this was the best place to achieve that, it got deeper than that but something essentially similar. At one piont, there was a hipster couple with some bratty kids and the one kid was upset because mommy was not handing her a tablet to distract her and the nun said to her," do you want to hold my hand and walk with me?" Nope the kid freaked out more, did not bother the nun at all she was just tra la, la, la, and continued the tour.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I’d recommend the retreat experience for everyone

Even protestants or atheists?

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes, actually. The one I went to and the ones my friends have gone to haven’t been pushy or preachy at all. The emphasis seemed to be in quiet time and fitting in the community. So the one I went on, I could pray in the chapel as much or as little as I wanted or just stay in my room, or see the garden maybe. I could listen to the choir just for music. My friend does a summer one where they stay a while, garden, clean, and don’t have phones and are quiet. They do eat together and have wholesome fun like board games and outdoor games. That’s only anecdotal experience, so can’t speak for every place, but from that I’ve heard of anyone being welcome.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That sounds really nice. What are they called? How do you find out about them?

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

https://aleteia.org/2017/09/15/10-breathtakingly-beautiful-catholic-retreats/

Here is a list of popular ones in the US, I got that googling “catholic monastery retreats USA.”

I’ll PM about specific ones I know.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

“doing exactly what I’m supposed to be doing and being exactly where I’m supposed to be.”

Haha, I feel this way about milking cows. :-)

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I’d recommend the retreat experience for everyone, if they want a break that isn’t just a fast-paced vacation.

Or simply to stop living for others. Too hard for most people.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is good too, but a retreat can be a really life-renewing experience either way.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigroses are red, feminists are blue6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Adding to this: it's not even that parenting is a contest, wifehood becomes a contest. Once wives are in their late-30's and 40's, it becomes a contest to see who still looks hot as they age. Husbands compare other wives' aging beauty to their own. Eyes linger at middle-aged women and husband's brains think it's still possible to have a hot wife in her 40's, so why doesn't my wife exercise more and dress sexy still. Husbands even compare if their wives still have youth and drive to have accomplishments and hobbies to other wives. The women that become schlubby and lay around the house, fulfilling their basic household duties, suddenly seem less interesting than the wife that starts her own side business. Don't let me mention the high chance of husbands having affairs, God forbid the woman lets herself go or becomes a little too demanding, she basically has to be on her best behavior all the time.

Basically there are pressures in a marriage, even after achieving "the ring and the Mrs. title." I could totally understand why a woman would feel the need to separate herself from a competitive dog-eat social world, especially if she gets severely judged if she stays single. In a convent, there is social support and no judgment. Sounds like mental and emotional safety to me.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For sure, basically everything can become competitive, it’s so toxic especially from s things that are supposed to be loving supportive institutions, and I understand why people want to call the whole thing off and get to a nunnery.

[–]GridReXXit be like that2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

[–]catbrainlandcucklord1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What is that?

[–]catbrainlandcucklord1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One of the more eclectic philosophy subs (which often deal with the topic at hand - alienation - after you filter out the schizo quack posts). Another one would be r/thelastpsychiatrist.

If we narrow the context back to women - what you wrote in parent is essentially “the problem that has no name” – chronic fatigue, crippling boredom, perpetual dissatisfaction - Christopher Lasch wrote a book about it with quite a few interesting insights, including role of church and volunteer work

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your value is based on how much you can do.

Funny thing, giving birth and raising children also is utilitarian.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are really bored tonight, huh?

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Okay, if this is true. Then you're covertly admitting that the "burden of performance" placed on to men to succeed in order to provide for others & grapple & succeed to achieve the top of the "dominance hierarchy" is quite substantial. Unless it only matters when women suffer from this burnout & not men.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

First of all it is true, I know many people who chose this path and have read up on it for years.

I’m not covertly admitting anything. It’s not a secret that the rat race is dehumanizing. Men go to monasteries too. All the time. There are monasteries where monks have lived for so long that some of them haven’t heard of the Beatles or Star Wars. I’m replying to the topic. I don’t have to write a thesis covering every possible topic under the sun for every comment. You’re doing that annoying whataboutism that assumes my silence on something is pregnant with meaning when in fact I’m merely answering the OP.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm just stating a very simple fact.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Uh ok? That you think I “covertly admitted” anything?

[–]sparksjoy 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

As an actual Catholic who went to a high school run by nuns I think I'll weigh in on this. Quite frankly I'm not entirely sure half the commenters here have any idea what the fuck they're talking about. Even the writer extrapolated a lot based on their experience going to a secular high school.

Virginity has always been the highest calling in Catholicism. However, because we understand that marriage is a necessary way to carry on the species comparatively speaking only a select few are seen as being called to the single/religious life. In recent years the number of women going into the convents was on the decline, the nuns were aging, and there was a major push on their part to recruit young women, especially ones from Catholic high schools who showed particularly strong devotion or potential. For a time these types of young women would have been pushed more toward becoming young housewives and homemakers because the convents had plenty of young women already.

It could also be the case that the shift of the focus of Catholic convents to community service and social causes such as ending the death penalty in the U.S. is also attractive to young Catholic women who are caught between politically liberal and conservative camps in terms of their beliefs on social justice.

I can elaborate more if there are any questions. I was getting frustrated with the standard "this is about not liking sex" conclusion jump in this thread. I mean, that could be part of it I guess, but there's more to it than that.

[–]bonslytossChaste Opinionated Weirdo2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm so glad you made this comment. I was thinking the exact same things, but didn't have the credentials to feel confident posting it myself.

I was getting frustrated with the standard "this is about not liking sex" or "too lazy to work" conclusion jump in this thread.

How often does this stereotype get pushed on women? I've only rarely seen it get pushed on a very specific demographic of men, but this thread is the first time I've observed it put on women.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It could also be the case that the shift of the focus of Catholic convents to community service and social causes such as ending the death penalty in the U.S. is also attractive to young Catholic women who are caught between politically liberal and conservative camps in terms of their beliefs on social justice.

I was thinking this, too. Haven't nuns been at the forefront of the social justice movement? I can see where a young woman might find someone like Sister Helen Prejean inspiring.

[–]skystar8645 points46 points  (64 children) | Copy Link

I think it's that and the oversexualized culture. Women are expected to be like the women in porn and expected to do more and more degrading acts. Women are seen as less of people. It's also the super high standards set on looks today. They are expected to have tons of expensive makeup on yet look like they have none on or on the alternate side expected to look like oversexualized Kardashians. The nunnery frees them from the expectations of sex, the looks expectations, and the pornsick men their age that watch things like cuckolding or water sports. When all these things seen as progressive are making things worse for you as a woman, conservatism and religiousness looks better and better. It allows them a conservative traditional lifestyle without having to be paired with pornsick men.

[–]SkrattGoddess16 points17 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

cuckolding

Uggggh, the worst! Any time a man mentions a cuckolding fetish it makes my skin crawl. It reeks of low self worth and inadequacy. Stay far away from me.

[–]skystar8616 points17 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

When a guy has a cuckolding fetish it means 3 things 1. He's self inserting in the sex scene and wants the man to fuck him but is selfishly using his girlfriend or wife to fulfill the fantasy. If you notice, cucks usually talk about the joy they get from eating the other man's cum and stuff.

  1. He gets off on degrading the woman in animalistic sex. He wants to make her become a degraded whore who takes anything and gets off on ruining her.

  2. He has no self worth to the point of sabotaging his own life and is pathetic.

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Reason #1 is why I honestly believe men who have a cuckolding fetish are closet homosexuals or bisexuals. Heterosexual men don't get off on eating other men's cum. Hell, typing that sentence made me gag a little.

[–]czerdec0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reason #1 is why I honestly believe men who have a cuckolding fetish are closet homosexuals or bisexuals

My guess is that they are guys who really want to be popular with their guy friends.

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

🤮 mark this NSFW and use spoiler tags please

[–]SkrattGoddess2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

He's self inserting in the sex scene and wants the man to fuck him but is selfishly using his girlfriend or wife to fulfill the fantasy.

If so, this makes me hate it even more!

If you notice, cucks usually talk about the joy they get from eating the other man's cum and stuff.

Ewwwwww! That's so nastyyyyyy! ;_;

He has no self worth to the point of sabotaging his own life and is pathetic.

I think this is a big reason. Only makes sense that a growing generation of men with low self worth and insecurities that watches porn 24/7 would have a nasty ass fetish like this.

[–]czerdec0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ewwwwww! That's so nastyyyyyy! ;_;

Most regular gay dudes like eating cum. Do you think they're nasty?

[–]mistresswhat8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Or it's just a basic humiliation thing. I don't get why people here are so freaked out by a fetish that's been around forever. Calm yourselves.

[–]binkerfluid-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think its also a sexual rivalry thing too maybe

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

When a guy has a cuckolding fetish it means 3 things

Lol I wonder what it means when a woman has a fetish for cuckolding her partner.

[–]skystar866 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

  1. Extremely high libido and just wants to get off with multiple people who are better in bed than her husband.
  2. She's sadistic and likes seeing the man suffer from the humiliation, verbal abuse, and things like the chastity cage. It gives her pleasure for him to be tortured.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Extremely high libido and just wants to get off with multiple people who are better in bed than her husband.

Then she'd just have a threesome.

#2 is more realistic.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Heh I think that about sums it up

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you think it’s the same dynamic with the genders swapped

[–]skystar861 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's largely the same except that this:

"He gets off on degrading the woman in animalistic sex. He wants to make her become a degraded whore who takes anything and gets off on ruining her."

Couldn't apply gender swapped unless she wanted him to go for several men where his holes are used up and he's now a whore for cock or to a lesser extent made to go for Mama June type women or women many men would be grossed out by sleeping with. In most cases him being able to sleep with so many women makes him a stud and doesn't degrade him.

[–]ScarletNumbered0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice numbering

[–]czerdec0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He has no self worth to the point of sabotaging his own life and is pathetic

That's the whole point of the fetish. If all participants are regularly tested and use protection where appropriate, that's fine. If a guy draws a clear line between the stuff he does in "happy time" and still attends to his responsibilities as a husband, father, son, employee and citizen, I have nothing but support for him.

[–]oftheinfinite 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

Guys actually have that fetish? I though it was a manospherian joke.

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ever wonder why BBC porn is so popular? That shit was around long before the manosphere.

[–]binkerfluid3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I hate the BBC thing its so racist. Sometimes they dont even talk about the guys like they are human. Just a "monster" or a person and only their penis matters. Its fucking weird.

Nothing wrong with interacial sex and porn but some people have this weird thing about that where its pretty dehumanizing

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, pornhub has scenes of that.

[–]banananutbranmuffin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I use to think it was a meme for a long time as well but, it is not. The whole cuckholding or "wife sharing" thing is real.

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I thought it was a common porn category guys like to watch. I see a lot of people talking about it online.

[–]Russelsteapot42Non Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

google gets About 451,000,000 results for "cuckold Fetish."

[–]TheReformist9414 points15 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Standards set for looks for women is lower than ever, with severe inflationary effect on male smv and rmv

[–]skystar866 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Bullshit. Have you noticed how much time young women spend on their makeup trying to make it look perfect? Also men are deciding to be soyboys because they think they can get a hot girl with no effort.

[–]Bayard207 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Which they do to impress other women and maintain their status within the so-called FSM. They're not doing it for men.

[–]skystar862 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh yeah being a soyboy really sparks up sexual desire in women.... LMAO

[–]Bayard208 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is what we in the business call a non-sequitur.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women running away from soyboys to the church? Hahaha.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Have you noticed how much time young women spend on their makeup trying to make it look perfect?

Because they don't want to be seen weird by other women.

[–]TheReformist94-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol. Please.

[–]skystar867 points8 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

More men are eschewing sex because the porn actress or the Instagram girl looks better than the women IRL.

[–]oneprettycoolcat4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Bullshit. I'm not bothering to chase women because the only ones I can get weigh more than I do but require a lot of effort on my part to bed them. If it takes a lot of work on my part to get at best starfish sex from a planetoid I'll just save the effort and not try,

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

More men are eschewing sex because the porn actress or the Instagram girl looks better than the women IRL.

This isn't saying much because it could be that the porn star is more accessible than the average woman.

These guys have been rejected enough that it's just not worth it anymore. But they'd rather have a woman than be alone. Porn is an unhappy compromise.

There's growing sexlessness among men but not women. Men are also committing suicide at a much higher rate. It's not as simple as saying the pornstar is hotter because most pornstars are very average looking. Instagram models are also basically prostitutes. They're more willing to be sexual and show digital intimacy (for a price).

This is an unhappy compromise men make. They'd kill for the intimacy, love, adoration and respect of a woman.

[–]binkerfluid1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

not as simple as saying the pornstar is hotter because most pornstars are very average looking.

thank you! many are kind of gross honestly

porn is just an easy way to get off but sex is a lot more than that

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't know why women think pornstars are hot. 90% of them are average or below average. Many of them are overweight. Some are obese.

You get a minority who are good looking but men tend not to watch just one video. They search for different videos. Women call men stupid for falling for makeup then say men find pornstsrs hotter than real women.

No, they are just more sexually available and aren't afraid to show it (for a price). Have women even seen pornstars without make up?

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know why women think pornstars are hot. 90% of them are average or below average. Many of them are overweight. Some are obese.

As a connoisseur ,the problem is that the hot ones usually do very vanilla stuff.

[–]Spaghetti20120 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They’d kill for love but not do the dishes every night unasked.

[–]Bayard207 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, men are "eschewing" sex because they can't get it.

[–]worldnewsie4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, men would take both if they could. They have to settle for porn.

[–]ImsomnilandNo Pills thnx3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

More men are eschewing sex because the porn actress or the Instagram girl looks better than the women IRL.

Horseshite. IF men are eschewing sex in any sort of collective way (yeah, I'm going to need some data to back that up) then it's because it's not easily accessible. But no guy I know is like "nah I won't sleep with that girl because she's not as hot as [porn actress/celebrity/IG account]. Sure maybe a guy here and there...but en masse? LOL nah

[–]binkerfluid0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

guys dont go on instagram very often

porn is not sex and guys dont use it in the same way usually. Ive never had problems being attracted to normal girls because of porn girls.

When I was in my last relationship I would consume porn and have sex both they are both very different.

[–]skystar861 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not talking about guys who watch porn sometimes and are in regular relationships. I'm talking about the people who think that's what real life should be like.

[–]TheReformist94-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No theyre watching porn because they don't know when their next lay is as girls refuse to looksmatch

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

More great points. Agree on all counts.

[–]GridReXXit be like that2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol I like “pornsick”

[–]umizumiz4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What?

We literally have to act like obesity is sexy for a woman...

[–]skystar866 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Where? Tumblr? An SJW college campus?

[–]upsettis2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You realize that people delusionally pushing for obesity to be sexy is a symptom of a culture that is very sexualized? Because being sexy is so valued that they try to push their way into also being considered sexy. They wouldn't be pushing for it unless being sexy is highly valued.

[–]silwr2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are seen as less of people

Give me a break

[–]rus9384Misanthrope3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

oversexualized culture.

False. Very false. In highly sexualized cultures women also are highly sexual.

It's the opposite. Girls are taught that men are predators and women are prey. That's why more women try to avoid men.

The very fact you see it as oversexualized, shows the culture is not highly sexualized.

Women are expected to be like the women in porn and expected to do more and more degrading acts.

The very fact you see them as degrading acts shows the culture is not highly sexualized.

Women are seen as less of people.

The very fact women can't view themselves people when men view them sexy shows the culture is not highly sexualized.

They are expected to have tons of expensive makeup on yet look like they have none on or on the alternate side expected to look like oversexualized Kardashians.

Oh, women have been put to high visual standards even in puritanical cultures.

[–]upsettis2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

False. Very false. In highly sexualized cultures women also are highly sexual.

You don't see the prevalence of sexualized social media photos, increase in casual sex, and increase in women literally selling their sex appeal on patreon (and other platforms) as women being highly sexual?

The very fact you see it as oversexualized, shows the culture is not highly sexualized.

Yes, one person's perception determines if the culture is highly sexualized or not. Lol. Also the logic doesn't even fucking make sense, so perceiving the culture as sexualized makes it not sexualized? "The very fact that you see that act as violent shows that the culture isn't violent."

The very fact you see them as degrading acts shows the culture is not highly sexualized.

LOL. Skystar is the true determining factor. But also again, how is pointing out a negative consequence in the current culture proving that it isn't sexualized?

The very fact women can't view themselves people when men view them sexy shows the culture is not highly sexualized.

What? A symptom of over sexualization is when people see women as sexual objects rather than people (with their own thoughts, dreams, goals, etc).

Oh, women have been put to high visual standards even in puritanical cultures.

Yes but not to the extent of today. Thanks to a combo of technology and increased social pressure to be beautiful/sexy, even everyday women are getting many procedures done that used to be exclusive to women working in fields that are centered on looks (acting, modeling, etc). The level of appearance altering is drastically different

[–]rus9384Misanthrope4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

prevalence of sexualized social media photos

I mean, instagram gave these women a pass, it's a matter of possibility rather than desires.

increase in casual sex

American women's N counts have been dropping since early 00s.

increase in women literally selling their sex appeal on patreon (and other platforms)

And decrease in prostitution, I guess. It's better to sell nudes than to sell sex, right? On top of legal concerns.

one person's perception determines if the culture is highly sexualized or not

Many women share her view.

perceiving the culture as sexualized makes it not sexualized

It's sexualized for men, while not sexualized for women. In other words, men are "animals", women are prudes.

how is pointing out a negative consequence in

Again, thinking of it as negative shows the culture is not highly sexualized.

Yes but not to the extent of today.

Tell that to women who wore super tight corsets back then.

[–]czerdec0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are expected to be like the women in porn

That's a ridiculous claim. At least 95% of men are completely aware that porn actresses belong to a very peculiar, uncommon category of women, in terms of willingness to perform unusual sexual acts.

Almost all men understand that pornography and sex with ordinary women are different universes.

[–]Ofourkind23 points24 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure that the fact that it's harder and harder for the average young person to eek out a decent living factors in. Join the convent, have all your basic needs met, not have to worry about what to wear or when/what to eat, what your job is, mortgages, car notes, phone bill, etc. Likely get to live in a beautiful place with peaceful people. Drop out of the rat race and spend your time in prayerful meditation or making yourself useful to someone less fortunate. Doesn't sound half bad, does it?

Given the option, of course most young women would like to create their own lives in their own homes with their own families. But if that isnt a realistic option and she is spiritually minded, becoming a nun is a viable alternative. I bet that if the priesthood weren't in such a state as it is currently, we might see young men doing the same.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 11 points12 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Join the convent, have all your basic needs met, not have to worry about what to wear or when/what to eat, what your job is, mortgages, car notes, phone bill, etc. Likely get to live in a beautiful place with peaceful people. Drop out of the rat race and spend your time in prayerful meditation or making yourself useful to someone less fortunate.

Sounds absolutely lovely

[–]historyhillBlue Pill Wife10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some may be doing this for only a short period of time too. There are a few orders which take vows annually rather than a perpetual vow, so in theory a young woman could do this for a few years and then leave and get married.

[–]Ofourkind8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It does, doesn't it?

Of course I'm ignoring the fact that they are impotent employees of an extremely corrupt organization and that these privileges come at the cost of your autonomy and freedom. Perhaps the new recruits see it as a lesser of two evils. They might have a point.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Humans have a marked tendency to want to surrender their agency to something that is bigger and more powerful and will do their thinking for them.

[–]ayeayefitlikeBlueish-Purple Pill Woman7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This was my thought too - your job is chilled, no worries about housing or affording food, and no dating worries either. Every millenial’s dream surely?

[–]GridReXXit be like that6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I get why the girls are doing it. They may not even commit forever. Almost like taking a mental break to sabbatical and help others in process. I can see the appeal.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I bet that if the priesthood weren't in such a state as it is currently, we might see young men doing the same.

In Brazil, the biggest catholic country, the number of priest candidates outpace the number of opportunities since the 90's.

[–]binkerfluid1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also you likely dont have to think as much, dont have to make as many decisions, dont have to have the weight of everything on you

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Many people simply are not individualist enough for this free society. Free society allows you to be the downshifter for the cost of being a bit despised by the society. But that's the cost of freedom.

Some people can't stand that cost. Hence they go into religion - "a union".

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are tired of men.

Millennials are tired of the rat race of capitalism in an economy that is so depressed that we will work forever and a day to live relatively comfortable lives.

Yup.

[–]philomexaSPITE ALONE HOLDS ME ALOFT14 points15 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Personally I'd rather join a witches coven, but like a legit one with hexes, botany, herbalism, and blood sacrifices. None of this weak ass pagan/wicca, obese SJW, advanced hippie, tarot card readings on instagram bullshit.

If I had to give up modern life for a cause, I rather be a witch than a nun.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 12 points13 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Sounds gay and larpy as fuck but you do you

[–]philomexaSPITE ALONE HOLDS ME ALOFT5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I mean how its anymore gay and larpy than nunnery? At least witchcraft condones and ritualizes acts of malevolence against 'The Man'.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

"Witches" are 300 pounds with pink hair and work at the local gas station. I don't believe in god either, but at least Catholicism is a real religion with thousands of years of tradition and history and scholarship, not to mention actual beautiful convents that you can live in.

[–]philomexaSPITE ALONE HOLDS ME ALOFT9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

"Witches" are 300 pounds with pink hair and work at the local gas station.

which is why I said I rather join a legit coven and not some "weak ass pagan/wicca, obese SJW, advanced hippie, tarot card readings on instagram bullshit."

At the end of the day, a nun still has to defer to some dude in a silly hat with a kid diddler problem. No thanks, if I'm gonna check out of modern society then I'm doing so on my terms (surrounded by rat skulls, cats, mushrooms, chicken blood, feathers, marijuana, and shit ton of crystals.)

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Understandable, I'm more of a cabin homestead in the woods by myself type of girl

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yah, I am more Unabomber without the bombs than nun lady.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The unabomber

👌🏻

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are real folk magic traditions out there, though. Pink haired obese wiccans aren't what philomexa is referring to.

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yah, witching sounds a bit more fun.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

a coven would be fun, the real fucked up ones probably exist within the elite, kinda like order of the solar temple. rich people are always doing weird shit

[–]ComeinoNo Pill5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a 25 year old woman who chose the life of celibacy precisely because of uncertainty and emotional unavailability from men, so you have a point there.

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I’d love to see actual numbers on women who become or desire to become nuns. This nun’s anecdotal experience is interesting but it’s possible that she is imply part of a specific growing and popular monastery.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

In 1965, America had 180,000 perpetually professed Catholic sisters, the technical term for women who have pledged their lives to chastity, poverty, obedience and serving the church. By 2010, that number tanked to fewer than 50,000. But right around the time I began to notice my high school classmates’ burgeoning faith, something flipped.

After 50 years of decline, the number of young women “discerning the religious life”—or going through the long process of becoming a Catholic sister—is substantially increasing. In 2017, 13 percent of women from age 18 to 35 who answered a Georgetown University-affiliated survey of American Catholics reported that they had considered becoming a Catholic sister. That’s more than 900,000 young women, enough to repopulate the corps of “women religious” in a couple of decades, even if only a fraction of them actually go through with it.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

That wouldn’t really make sense to say that the author somehow only had information about one monastery. No particular convent is large enough that gaining more adherents would indicate a larger trend, without checking other convents. I don’t quite see how anyone would be only aware of one particular monastery. Are there particular orders that are growing in popularity? Yes. But they have many locations.

Being deeply immersed in a catholic community, I can say there are many young women I know who became sisters and nuns, or discerned that life for a while, living in the convent. They were all normal, sociable women who had been on dates and had lives before. I myself have been on a retreat to a contemplative monastery. Although the full time life wouldn’t be for me, it was a very fulfilling and relaxing experience to get away from all the pressure.

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

You would know more it seems, but I read it as this one nun taking interest in the monastery only she represents.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I skimmed it but I didn’t quite see anything saying women joining her particular monastery? It seemed she was talking about the trend, the various websites and resources for people discerning. It’s very public now, it would actually be impossible to research this topic and only learn about one particular convent. Maybe you’re thinking of orders, like Dominicans or Benedictines?

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I don’t know a lot about Catholics but I read it as this one nun was in charge of interest and recruiting for her specific place of worship - whether that be an order or individual monastery.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m just curious where you got that? I didn’t even see the article name specific monasteries.

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I only skimmed it lol and obviously made assumptions.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Gotcha yeah, I could see someone would assume it was just promoting her one monastery or something. There are definitely orders that are getting more popular than other, but usually they are pretty big with lots of different convents. And they do various things. Some are cloistered contemplatives who never leave, others help the poor and sick, others teach and do itinerant evangelization.

[–]meomeowmeoww 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

mennnnn areee the wooooorssst

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

good to see this sub is slowly getting pinkpilled

[–]goy880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No u

[–]GridReXXit be like that3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No clue. But you’re right. Two people in my network twirled off to another country to become nuns. That was two more than I thought I’d encounter in my life. Especially since neither one appeared overly religious.

Both are around 24-26 ish.

[–]Autistic_ReeeeeeeeeeRed Pill Man2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Nuns are common in times of hardship. They are uncommon in times of comfort.

Nuns are women, Women need security.

Having a higher rate of nuns in a declining religion (relative to population) is proof that life is becoming more difficult and we are in and traveling towards hardship.

Also, It isn't like nuns and priests don't get sex on the side.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

What are the hardships America faces now? It still is far economically better there than in the Eastern Europe.

[–]Autistic_ReeeeeeeeeeRed Pill Man2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Vicarious gig economy, High relationship uncertainty. Casual hookup culture, Increased likelihood of being single, Education costs, Cost of living increases, Wages growth not inline with inflation, Housing market uncertainty, Political uncertainty, Identity politics, Ever increasing competition.

I mean the list can go on. Lots of this stuff applies to Europe and I have no doubt that they probably also have an increase in Nuns or for that matter any other prospective employment/lifestyle that offers similar relief from the stresses of the world.

Nuns get a bed to sleep in, clothes to wear, a purpose in life, food to eat and can also experience a normal life outside of their work/lifestyle.

Any Nun between ages 18 - 45 is most likely sexually active. They still have a bank account, A family and plenty of free time.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Perhaps I know too few about nuns.

Lots of this stuff applies to Europe

I said Eastern Europe. You know, it's not like they have Catholicism there. But yeah, people became more religious because the atheist propaganda disappeared.

[–]Autistic_ReeeeeeeeeeRed Pill Man-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

In terms of Eastern Europe I think men are still the best option for women facing hardship.

These women either move to another country on someone else's dollar or they shack up with the best men they can reasonably find.

Eastern European women are among the most hypergamous in the "Western World".

Hypergamy is more pronounced and visible the closer you get to poverty

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

They are not hypergamous when it comes to alpha traits. But if they are gonna gold dig, they are gonna try hard.

And you know why? Capitalism struck Eastern Europe harder than it struck America.

[–]Autistic_ReeeeeeeeeeRed Pill Man-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Capitalism has little impact on female nature, But overall female nature is unchanged regardless of the political system.

Under subjugation from National Socialism Polish women were attracted to Nazi men even though they were starving and killing their own countrymen.

Capitalism just allows for individual freedoms to be exploited by both government and corporations rather than just government.

If there is a ruling class regardless of your culture, politics or geographical location you can be sure they do not have your best interests in mind when making decisions that will affect you.

There will always be a ruling class because there will always be people to take advantage of.

Anarchists will always return to order and power struggles leading to a ruling class and any of the following systems.

Socialists will always be ruled by government.

Communists will be ruled by government.

Capitalists will be ruled less so by government and more so corporations depending on what stage.

Representative Democratic Republics are humanities best attempt at choosing our rulers while keeping the right to reject their rule but is by no means perfect. Corruption is rampant and the will of the people is not always transferred to their representatives. A stagnant swamp of government unable and unwilling to enact the will of the people will remain.

My point is that in any of these societies with vastly different structure does female nature change all that much?

I would say no.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I meant all that consumerism thing. Russians are even more consumerist than Americans, after adjusting for their wages.

[–]Autistic_ReeeeeeeeeeRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Poverty breeds poverty friend.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, but where else you will see women publicly giving a blowjob to get an iPhone? It's not merely poverty. It's not poverty at all, these women are not starving.

[–]Iron-Giant1690 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

For rich white assholes it’s heaven, for everyone else? Meh

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Still not as meh as Eastern Europe.

[–]Iron-Giant1690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Eastern Europe has been a literal battlefield for other powers for centuries

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The "hardships" are imagined hardships conjured up by the MSM alt-left socialist machine designed to brainwash people into instituting communism into America. AKA it's all imaginary and more people are simply delusional.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker5 points6 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

When their choice is between fuckboy Chads who pump and dump and average looking overweight guys addicted to video games and online porn, I’m surprised that more young women don’t try to become nuns. I still remember seeing cute young nuns in the Philippines smiling at me when I visited and wondering how many of them would have made that choice if they had had a “rich white foreign gentleman” wooing them.

[–]SpinachIsYummyNo Pill5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As a 19 year old girl I agree. I'm a bisexual agnostic feminist but I strongly dislike how oversexualized the world currently is. I know that I'm not the only one. I have a lot of friends who are putting off sex because they are uncomfortable with it due to being constantly being bombarded with hypersexual imagery. A life as a nun will seem like a kinda nice break to a lot of women.

I will probably just find another woman to settle down with or I will become a plant lady.

Edit: the obesity epidemic has also decreased the number of people I would even enjoy having sex with. I exercise and eat well to stay healthy and thin and would appreciate a partner who does the same.

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

So why be a nun rather than a "cat lady" or WGTOW or whatever? Becoming a nun seems like complete overkill for what you are describing.

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because if you are a cat lady you still have to go to work and pay the bills and do all that other shit, whereas if you are a nun you do not have to deal with the leaky roof or the car repair.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cat lady plus source of meaning perhaps

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, I imagine these women are religious Roman Catholics too. But my point is that the choice in quality men who want monogamy and dislike casual sex is becoming limited. Men are either becoming low quality, or they are becoming irresponsible fuckboys, and I imagine that the supply of responsible Catholic men that a Catholic woman could marry and raise a family with has lessened by quite a bit. Of course, obesity is also a big problem among women, but I’m looking at things from their eyes, and even obese women want attractive, responsible men.

[–]skystar861 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They could date a 10+ years older religious man, a guy from a place like Liberty University or Bob Jones, or date a foreign man with trad values IMO.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Somehow this feels like a self serving comment...

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is stupid. A non-catholic will not turn into catholicism and become a nun because of that. It's that the amount of catholics has grown, perhaps.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It is mostly girls being raised Catholic that are becoming nuns, I would think. My point is that their options to find a traditional, religious Catholic husband are declining, as more men are becoming either low value or depraved in their eyes. Women tend to be more religious than men, so it makes sense.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, this makes sense. It also would make sense that catholics after all that sexual revoltion stuff finally gone away went back to their pre-revolutuonal state.

[–]KazROFL-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I know plenty of young guys that are single with good careers and interested in starting a family, 100% not fuckboys, they don't even try to pretend they are. Yet they can't find takers? They are unsexy programmers though.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And I’d bet the majority either aren’t trying, are shooting out of their league or are sitting at home expecting tinder to deliver them a miracle.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And now we know the other 33% of why modern women become nuns.

[–]Manhater6663 points4 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

men ruined sex with their porn usage. men are still violent and misogynistic and is pushing women away. what is also pushing women away is men's entitlement to women's bodies, time and energy.

men are cancer and women are retreating.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

These are not new issues by any stretch. Doesn’t explain the current increase in women choosing to be nuns.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Ubiquitous high-speed porn consumption from very young ages is definitely a new issue and male-female relations are reeling from it to a staggering degree.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The only thing porn can give that images of naked women couldn't, is only that men have a wrong idea how to please a woman and a bunch of new kinks.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Uhh yeah and those are both huge problems

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not sure an average man is gonna insist on a weird kink. So, it mostly reduces to one problem.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yeah ok, proliferation of internet porn is new but you can hardly blame the fucked up state of M-F relations on porn hub.

Like you do know there was porn before the internet and kids got into their parents and friends stashes right?

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Hiding a stash of playboys isn't even in the same ballpark as boys getting addicted to increasingly hardcore high-definition on-demand porn streaming starting in the single digits.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train-2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

there was hardcore porn before. We had these things called VCRs where you could watch recorded tapes, including some that contained hard core porn. There was also something called the playboy channel.

LOL @ “it’s worse cuz high definition”

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And 11 year olds didn't have unfettered access to millions of VCR pornos. I actually AM an early 20s yo old woman, these boys are my peers.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And I’m a 40 something woman who lived during this time you think you’re an expert on despite not even being alive.

men of your generation are choosing porn over social connections. Sorry but that ain’t porn’s fault.

[–]skystar86 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

But were they into cuckolding and things like that or chastity cages or forced sissy fetishes or choking people or blood play? I know there was VCR porn but it's not exactly the same. I know cause there were adult video sections in the 90s where you saw very graphic things and you saw dirty magazines in bookstores in the adult magazine section.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. That stuff existed back then too. It wasn’t in mainstream stores but it existed.

Believe me, every sexual thing that is routinely shown in porn has been done since there were humans with gentials on this planet. Nothing is new. It’s just new to you.

[–]banananutbranmuffin1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lol

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

LOL when I read the first half of this

(This one strikes especially close to home. Modern society isn't freeing women to find fulfillment in female ways, it's crushing them with pressure to struggle through male roles -

my very next thought was

roles, incidentally, that men are already long checked out of via video games and general apathy)

I wonder why that is. Whether it's that a female-friendly form of absolute escapism just hasn't been invented yet, or women are more primed by evolution to fit in with their society because their survival depended on it. Or something else altogether (I'm sure the "real" explanation will be some horrifying thing I never realized about how women enable men to do this but whatevs)

“The level of anxiety and sadness these kids have, I don’t think we can even understand it at this point,” Olon said. “I think there are things these kids are experiencing now that we don’t even have names for.”

Totally agreed. Millennials are the guinea pigs for this brave new world of ours. Future generations will learn from our mistakes and trials.

How is she supposed to feel any stability or security in her life after going through that? (Note: I'm not blaming her dad, regardless of whose fault the divorce was, it's devastating to a child). From the perspective of young women, the future looks like a long depressing slog of working full-time while also managing the house and caring for children in an increasingly harsh economy, where her family's social status is increasingly insecure, accompanied by increasingly uncommitted and unhelpful men

It's almost like there's a reason patriarchy had the rules it did

This is the price of freedom (can't enslave men to be useful against their will, after all. They have to be motivated to. That's what patriarchy enabled, for the most part.)

Enjoy!

[–]geyges🐇2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Future generations will learn from our mistakes and trials.

That's optimistic. I think they'll get fucked even more.

The pace and pressures of the modern world are not going to get better.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

I may be wrong but I feel we're reaching an asymptote in terms of how much more change can be wrought by technology in the near future (couple decades). So at that point it's just a matter of generational development of adaptations to the changes we have already had.

Maybe not.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Technology will only reach the "singularity". Its pace of advancement will only improve until then.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Man that'll be something.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, after that techonology will self-improve so fast humans will not be able to comprehend it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ohh yeah at the end of Sapiens they mentioned that humans after that point may as well be like Gods relative to our current understanding

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They will not be humans, technically.

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Do you get angry and resentful of future generations because of this?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Not gonna lie kinda lol

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

That's why a lot of people don't want kids. They want to focus on themselves instead of the future generation because the future generation will have it all anyways so you may as well catch up.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol well I can't say that's true for me I want a whole bunch of kids and to teach them everything I know about how to game this sick depraved experiment that is the early 21st century so they can excel in it.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Enjoy!

It's not like men seem to be "enjoying" it, if anything they complain more.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well sure, people want to be useful.

But I don't know about that other part women complain quite a bit too--about being overwhelmed, about emotional labor. I don't know you may be right, you may not.

No one's happy, making it a matter of whether you'd rather be unhappily lazing about all day and zapping your brain with quick dopamine hits, or drinking straight from a firehose that gets increasingly stronger as the years go by.

Or join a nunnery.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

female-friendly form of absolute escapism

You mean being a "sex positive" slut?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Haha of course that is there, but what I mean is a form of escapism that would get women to do what some men do in terms of dropping out altogether and playing vidya all day.

Like I guess it's not gendered but some women get hooked on heroin?

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I'm not being cheeky, that is the same thing. Basically just stop saying no, get high, party and end up a single mother. The difference between men and women in this regard is access.

When a woman stops looking towards worthy pursuits and takes "the easy route" she trades her body for good times. And ultimately she trades her future for the now. Maximize ROI with the least input possible.

That is no different than vidya.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Damn that's true. I guess no one wants to be the one to publicly say "raising future welfare recipients isn't exactly a great contribution to society"

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

https://abagond.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/illegitimacy.jpg

In the future I expect this to be about 70% for all races except for asians. It might be a touch lower for white, but either way, you can see it tops out about 70% and that all other races are quickly closing the gap.

When you invert this, it's basically "the decline."

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is damn sobering. Sounds about right, that top line is the canary in the coalmine. The glorious future that was fought and funded for.

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

For the 99% of society that aren't government bureaucrats and their political cronies. Those guys and gals are absolutely ecstatic about society's direction. After all, who else but them will lead society in the future? Who will be the Alphas to society's Gammas, Deltas, and Epsilons? (Brave New World reference btw)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Who will be the Alphas to society's Gammas, Deltas, and Epsilons? (Brave New World reference btw)

Someone definitely gave Huxley the answers ahead of time lol

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Nah, most humans will be got rid of once the robots are there to do all the dirty work.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

got rid of

Like....genocide?

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

my very next thought was

Haha, guess we're on the same wavelength

I wonder why that is.

Not sure either. Like I pointed out I do think women are more susceptible to feeling pressure to live up to what's expected from them, probably due to being higher in agreeableness and conscientiousness. I don't know if that explains everything though.

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[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Went to Rutgers

Woot!

[–]chaddad90001 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm thinking it could just be a large number of traditional catholic immigrants. A friend lived next to a nunnery and they were all from central america I think.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Makes sense

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Despite all Trump's efforts...

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

One positive thing here: 3rd wave feminists will not be able to fulfill their wishes to change the society.

So, they are not the strong enough force and are not going to compete.

[–]oftheinfinite 1 points [recovered]  (41 children) | Copy Link

One reason might be the Christian acceptance of female bisexuality and lesbianism these days and gay affirming Churches are growing in number now, so it's a lot easier for younger women to accept religious belief.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 8 points9 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Did you miss the part where it said they are much more doctrinally conservative than their elders? They are on the whole very rigidly traditional in their views toward things like homosexuality.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then the answer is obvious. It's a relief valve for conservative women who can't find a way to live conservative lives in a world that doesn't let them live these lives anymore.

So they'd rather live them in private since they see no alternative.

[–]oftheinfinite 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

Doctrinally conservative lesbian and bisexual women exist. I know a few who are.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The need for purpose and spiritual comfort is greater than the desire for social acceptance and inclusion of homosexuality for the women who are re-entering

how is this related to them becoming nuns?

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The question then is why are women becoming more conservative.

[–]oftheinfinite 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, I wanted to ask sadomasocrhirst that. Care to have a crack at it?

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think mass media had a hand in that.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

nuns are exclusively a catholic thing and theres no acceptance of female bi- and homosexuality there

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave8 points9 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

The Catholic Church isn’t one of those churches.

[–]oftheinfinite 1 points [recovered]  (28 children) | Copy Link

Maybe not yet but do you think that will change? I think Catholics are changing in in time so will the CC.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No. It won’t. The idea they are becoming nuns to find a gay safe space is illogical.

[–]oftheinfinite 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

The idea is that its not just a "gay safe space", but a sexuality, sex, materialism, and hedonism free space. Today is the best time to be a nun. Men aren't attractive and useful to them, their non-straightness is not even an contentious issue anymore, and they desire to accept greater purpose and meaning through service of God. Literally all Catholic schools and Churches are replete with women who dress in scantily clad attire that was frowned just a few decades. Why else would women want to become nuns?

[–]sparksjoy 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Literally all Catholic schools and Churches are replete with women who dress in scantily clad attire that was frowned just a few decades.

Church can be pretty bad sometimes yes but where are these Catholic schools with "scantily clad attire"? Porn?

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes that all makes sense, I only didn’t agree with your comment that some strains of Christianity being gay tolerant is related to increasing sister vocations in the Catholic Church.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave2 points3 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

The idea that the Catholic Church will ever change its fundamental doctrines “with the times” is a secular misunderstanding of how the church works. It has stayed the same on matters of dogma since it started. Institutions changing with the times is more of a modern capitalistic secular understanding, and it makes sense for businesses.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

This is blatantly false. Even islam was liberal in the middle middle ages.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave0 points1 point  (20 children) | Copy Link

It is not blatantly false, the church hasn’t changed on dogma, please don’t make things up.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Since what times exactly?

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave0 points1 point  (18 children) | Copy Link

The dogma has always been the same.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

What exactly is this dogma?

[–]skystar863 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But nuns don't have sex. Wouldn't that description be more true of asexual or demisexual women?

[–]MDMCrab1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This article should be on the Catholic sub if it is not already. Fascinating, but also unsurprising.

[–]binkerfluid1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This implies its the men alone that are doing the leaving but in many/most cases its the women filing for divorce and the women who get custody with the father paying support and maybe seeing their kid a couple of times a week if lucky.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I specifically didn't imply that

[–]binkerfluid1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

My next theory is that this is a reaction to the lack of security perceived by modern young women. These are the children of divorce. Getting married is no reassurance that he'll take care of you, and in this economy, he can't even do that** before he leaves you.** Women are grappling with the pressure of having to replace the security that men once brought to their lives,

im referring to this part

im not vilifying you or anything

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Note: I'm not blaming her dad, regardless of whose fault the divorce was, it's devastating to a child

Children of divorce are not privy to the nuances of their parents sexual and romantic relationships, no matter which adult is at fault, the daughters (and sons too I'm sure) are left with the gaping lack of security and stability and inability to really trust.

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Personal experiences hit you much harder than statistics.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know a pair of sisters (Romanian orthodox) like that - decent looking, good family. I'm guessing they wanted to be at peace and they couldn't find that with a husband and kids and work.

[–]Bayard201 point2 points  (117 children) | Copy Link

Prudes gonna prude.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho1 point2 points  (115 children) | Copy Link

You beat me by a minute! Think Atlas and some women here have said something to the effect that every generation rebels against the prior one. We've had the sexual revolution, and now the backlash is this puritanical prudishness like you said. People also used to have guts. Women had balls, so to speak.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

The sexual revolution was over 50 years ago. Millennials are not reacting to something. That happened 50 years ago that most of their parents were too young to have experienced.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough point, how about Pop stars like Madonna? It just seems to me that the early 80's-90's were just way more of a sexual time than we have right now. That's probably close enough to be a rebound generational thing maybe? Or am I deluded about thinking the past two decades were more sexual than now?

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

80s was the conservative backlash. That’s WHY Madonna was so controversial. Every time I say this no one knows what I’m talking about because you’re all young.

So yes the 80s were. But 2019 is not a “rebound” from the 60s and 70s.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough again, thanks for the correction. So am I totally wrong with that, or do you think I was just wrong about the period I was going with it, and it checks out to 90's? Or when?

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Like everything else these things go in 10-15 year cycles. All you have to to see how the mood pendulum swings in America is to look at who’s in the White House.

The 90s started off with loosening sexual mores compared to the 80s until straight people realized they could get AIDS too.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Think I'm ready for the next one:/

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It just seems to me that the early 80's-90's were just way more of a sexual time than we have right now.

Can confirm, and my ghod we had fun!

[–]Bayard201 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I don't think this is them rebelling at all - I think it's a perfectly natural reaction. Women are asexual and they have no inherent desire for male companionship - if they see no benefit in associating with men, they'll self-segregate and not interact with them at all (Briffault's Law). I also think the effects of the so-called "Sexual Revolution" have been grossly overstated - truth is there never was that much sex going on, not now and not then.

[–]GridReXXit be like that2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We aren’t asexual. We just aren’t driven by sex to the extent men are. But I agree with the rest of your comment.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

That, or mouse utopia.

[–]Bayard201 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is what the mouse utopia experiment was, essentially.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Mouse utopia was deeply flawed though. Mice literally lived in a dump.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'll have to go re-read that apparently. I thought at least one trial was, "perfect conditions" and still failed.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean, their place was cleaned from food junk, poop and corpses very rarely.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well when you put it like that, it still sorta scarily makes me think about us. I get we tend to bury our dead though. Pollution as a whole would probably be a next fair comparison.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

We don't live in our poop and piss with human corpses lying under out feet, gladly.

[–]skystar861 point2 points  (96 children) | Copy Link

This is why I get quite angry. I'm a Millennial INTJ and believe in speaking my mind and am an outspoken person yet people get so triggered at it, especially online. It makes me resent humanity to the point I almost enjoy triggering others.

[–]Bayard20 1 points [recovered]  (12 children) | Copy Link

I'm a Millennial INTJ and believe in speaking my mind and am an outspoken person

If your previous posts are any indication, that's probably something you should work on.

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Why? To not hurt their precious fee fees lol?

[–]Bayard20 1 points [recovered]  (10 children) | Copy Link

No, that's the least of your problems.

[–]skystar861 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Then what's the objective reason I should stop if someone pisses me off and they're not someone I love nor someone useful to me in the future?

[–]Bayard200 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Would you rather I be polite or direct?

[–]skystar862 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Direct. Stop expecting me to mind read. Now give me the objective reasons.

[–]Bayard20 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

You sound like a fucking spaz. That direct enough for you?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

direct

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Yep, we've come full circle into making a world of pussies.

[–]skystar861 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

So what do I do about it? I think most people are just not worth socializing with. If the future generations expect this of me then I'll shout them down and show them my mind. They won't be used to me because they'll be used to their meek parents. My only plus is since my generation got meeker it's far easier for me to push for my way because no one else is doing it. It gives me more power.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

So what do I do about it?

Personally I'm rooting for another black plague.

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to use this to gain more power and get whatever I want in life. If people easily back down it means I can have more. If nobody pushes for any agenda, it means I can push my agendas with very little competition. Is this a good way or a bad way of thinking about life?

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good is subjective to perspective as they say. Do what you need to do fam:D

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nothing wrong with that type of life if you feel fine with whatever comes out of it. Just don't throw a temper tantrum and call for censorship when someone else pushes back, but that's my disdain for hypocrisy speaking.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Feminists already try hard with pushing their agenda. But trying without a talent sucks.

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well to be fair nobody wants to listen to Trigglypuff or Big Red except as humor.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, the same can be said about alt-rights, yeah?

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

When was there a world full of pussies before?

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I miss used "come full circle" there. Caught that after the fact, but hoped nobody would call me on it. It made it a while for me:D

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Probably because people who aren’t millennials are not impressed by people feel the need to constantly remind everyone that they are milllennials.

[–]skystar861 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The subject was talking about the generation specifically. You already think this of me so what's the difference?

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Every comment I see by you is “I’m a millennial INTJ, so...”

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Interestingly, Z'ers are even more conservative.

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Isn't it too early to tell how they'll come out? We need to wait til their 30s to see how they are as a generation. People often become the opposites of what they were in their teens or early 20s.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Young millenials are in 20s. And the article was about young millenial women.

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (65 children) | Copy Link

INTJ

What a self-contradiction. A true systemizer, a true INTJ, would know that MBTI is internally logically inconsistent. It assigns a Perceiving primary function – Introverted iNtuition – to a type that is clearly defined as Judging by the J/P Jungian dichotomy.

MBTI is for suckers. Look up Socionics for the real thing. Not asking, telling, btw. Just do it. You can thank me later.

EDIT: Sentence structure

[–]LivelyChartreusePurge Queen2 points3 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

A true systemizer, a true INTJ, would know that MBTI is internally logically inconsistent.

Wow I've never seen so much INTPitis in my life.

J = first extro function is E

I = first function is introverted

Therefore the first function cannot be the extroverted judging function (Te), and must be Ni. Thanks for playing, it's perfectly consistent IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE GODDAMN RULES

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

Why would the system use the extroverted primary function as a starting point for introverted types?

The rules are inconsistent across introverted and extroverted types. Of course as a matter of convention the rules cannot be inconsistent, but they can be as a matter of logical intuition.

INTJ of course has introverted logic, not introverted intuitition, as a primary function.

[–]LivelyChartreusePurge Queen0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

Okay how about you shut the fuck up and let a high iq person talk

I don't really give a fuck that you like a stupid and moronic system but at least fucking understand that when someone says MBTI says INTJ they MEAN Ni-Te rather than screed "SKLDFJLSKDFJKLSDFJKS SOCIONICS IS BETTER BECAUSE MUH LOGICAL CONSISTENCY"

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Okay how about you shut the fuck up and let a high iq person talk

... mere seconds later ...

"SKLDFJLSKDFJKLSDFJKS SOCIONICS IS BETTER BECAUSE MUH LOGICAL CONSISTENCY"

I don't really give a fuck that you like a stupid and moronic system

Very little about the way you talk indicates that you’re "high IQ". But let’s not discount the possibility that you’re a high IQ person occasionally sounding like a blabbering moron.

Except for specifying Ni-Te. Specifying the actual psychological functions makes for a potential "universal type" that makes communication across Socionics and MBTI easier. I’ve argued that in earlier posts/comments.

Still, most people are just going to take simple tests that determine the dichotomies with simple questions addressing each one separately, not in relation to functions. Introverts will then, via MBTI, end up with psychological functions that make very little sense with regards to their specific typing; besides the inevitable basic and trivial similarities between for example both introverted logical, intuitive types (INTJ/INTP).

[–]LivelyChartreusePurge Queen1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Very little about the way you talk indicates that you’re "high IQ". But let’s not discount the possibility that you’re a high IQ person occasionally sounding like a blabbering moron.

I mean there is high relative to others and objectively high. I won't lay claim to the second but compared to you I will lay claim to the first.

mere seconds later ...

Have you ever heard of satire? How about hyperbole?

Except for specifying Ni-Te. Specifying the actual psychological

That was my point - you demand others cede to your system rather than meet them halfway and ask "do you mean this function stack" or just flatout ask what kind of test they took. Mbti and socionics are just MODELS and common sense wisdom would tell you "all models are wrong but some are useful". Mbti is a more useful model for some (as it is more intuitive) and socionics is more useful for others (as it is more mathematical).

Where I think you're being dumb is not acknowledging other models can have utility to others, as most people would never even FIND your model without finding mbti first. But that would require admitting mbti has utility to you in that sense.

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

I mean there is high relative to others and objectively high.

I believe the antonym you’re looking for is absolute, in relation to relative

I won't lay claim to the second but compared to you I will lay claim to the first.

Haha, yeah, well, so you’re basically saying, "I’m smarter than you anyway", wrapped up in a package resembling how grown-ups talk.

If it’s not objective, then I suppose it’s subjective, and all about how you feel. Your blabbering and wrong use of words is more spot on than you imagined, just not the way you imagined.

Have you ever heard of satire? How about hyperbole?

You are openly adversarial and condescending, explicitly trying to insult me, yet you expect me to be charitable in my interpretation of what you’re saying?

No, I will make you choke on your own words, and I will turn your own sentences around and make them march against you.

That was my point -

Actually, it was my point a long time before you made it. For all I know you took a quick look at my very short post history and lifted it from there.

you demand others cede to your system rather than meet them halfway and ask "do you mean this function stack" or just flatout ask what kind of test they took.

I’ll let you answer this one yourself: "Have you ever heard of satire? How about hyperbole?"

Mbti and socionics are just MODELS and common sense wisdom would tell you "all models are wrong but some are useful".

You mean like the atomic particle model? How about the periodic table, which is directly based on it? Those have extremely high predictive value, impeccable internal consistency, and solid theoretical coherence relative to each other and yet countless other theories. That’s what models can offer at their very best.

If you claim the default equality of Socionics and MBTI, you are really just inviting and encouraging the claim that MBTI and Socionics alike are inherently pseudoscientific and always will be. Scientifically speaking, models are not equal at all. They stand and fall on their falsifiability, predictive value and ability to withstand falsification.

Mbti is a more useful model for some (as it is more intuitive)

It is simpler, yet not in terms of theoretical simplicity. and appeals more to people who don’t seek a thorough understanding in the first place.

and socionics is more useful for others (as it is more mathematical).

It makes much more specific predictions outside the individual typings themselves, giving it more scientific potential (though as it stands it is not scientific, nor have I claimed it to be). It is also much more internally consistent. Myers-Briggs’ determination of functions with the extraverted function as started point for both extraverts and introverts makes no sense. It lacks consistency and theoretical simplicity, requiring the reader to simple accept at face value that for introverts the starting point is the secondary function, since that’s their extraverted leading function. In Socionics, all four dichotomies determine the primary function directly for both introverts and extraverts, displaying a comparative elegance of theoretical simplicity and consistency.

Where I think you're being dumb is not acknowledging other models can have utility to others, as most people would never even FIND your model without finding mbti first.

This is an arbitrary external pragmatic value, which I have never denied either. On the other hand MBTI could be said to drag Socionics into the dirt. Many people here say both theories are garbage but they only know MBTI, and barely even that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

lol aren't you a fucking dog groomer. dense population of geniuses in your field, I'm sure.

continue to flex 'muh iq' though; it's not any less cringy when chicks do it than when neckbeard bravetheists do.

[–]LivelyChartreusePurge Queen1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why the fuck do you care how I insult others? Does it bother you that I'm typing in your space? Poor you :( I'll pray for you tonight. "Dear God, it's me, Lively, please help highspergyme learn how to mind his own business, k thnx <3"

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

oh god you're even cringier than I thought lol.

you can quit swinging around your big dick energy now. we get it. you're r/iamverybadass

there's only room for one atlas around here, and people come here for the real thing.

[–]skystar861 point2 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm taking an online socionics test. Will post the results later.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

Socionics is garbage

[–]skystar862 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

What's wrong with it compared to MBTI?

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don’t worry, it’s always good to be skeptical, especially about these kinds of theories, but I’d wait for her to actually argue her case, or pay no further attention.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Both are garbage.

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

But people have different personalities. It makes sense there would be different classifications.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

There would be classifications, but both MBTI and socionics suck.

Both ignore that distributions of almost any parameters usually are normal.

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don’t have to be garbage just because they are not scientific. They can still, to varying degrees, be interesting theories by themselves, with varying degrees of practical everyday application, suitability for personal self-reflection, or potential as scientific theories. It should be okay to say, "this is not science, but it is still an interesting theory", and to be clear about that.

Socionics, for example, makes lots of predictions about relationships, pairings, groupings, outside the personality typing itself, which are actually reasonably falsifiable. Falsifiability is the most important prerequisite for a theory to be scientific. Scientific studies on the theory were also done in Eastern Europe and Russia/former Soviet Union (where it’s from) with some interesting results, showing at least moderate empirical support for parts of the theory.

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Why do I get the feeling you don’t know what you’re talking about? Besides the lack arguments to back up your claim, and the fact that you asked me about sort of basic information about socionics in another comment?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

lol@ demanding a source for "x is garbage"

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t ask you for a source, I asked you to argue your case. You should take that as a compliment. It means I consider you a potential source – of knowledge.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

lol

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No problem, keep in mind that correct typing may take some time (in Socionics) getting to know the system, although type tests are fine if you are honest with yourself and thorough, and willing to revise your own typing in light of new evidence. Socionics makes many predictions based on type, among informal membership in various groups, like quadras (determined by something called valued functions) and clubs (determined by the pairing of preferred perceiving and judging functions, for example SF or NT). It also makes predictions about the kinds of relationships you have with other people based on their typing and yours.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

what makes socionics more "real" than myers briggs or kiersey?

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

It gets the introverted types right, plus a whole lot more starting with mapping relationship types between individual types. The extraverted function shouldn’t determine typing of the primary function for introverted types. The Jungian dichotomies determine the primary and second functions, and it stands to reason that for introverted types they determine the primary function first.

I mean, come on, do you really think introverted intuition makes sense as the primary function for the master of internal logical systems, like math, formal logic...law?

Extraverted logic is business logic. It is about what works, functions, what is cost-efficient and pragmatic, investment decisions, and such. It is what drives the superior business talent of ENTJ.

Wrong kind of logic for INTJ, though. INTJ is about the internal language of logical systems. Mastery of math, informatics, theoretical science, formal logical systems, measurement, quantification, even law as an internally coherent logical system.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

where is "extroverted logic" in MBTI? all youre saying is "i like socionics betteR", which is fine

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

where is "extroverted logic" in MBTI?

Jung's typology theories postulated a sequence of four cognitive functions (thinking, feeling, sensation, and intuition), each having one of two polar orientations (extraversion or introversion), giving a total of eight dominant functions. The MBTI is based on these eight hypothetical functions, although with some differences in expression from Jung's model (see § Differences from Jung below).

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers–Briggs_Type_Indicator

Extraverted logic and other functions were already present in Jung’s original type theories, which MBTI is directly built upon and derived from. And MBTI kept those descriptions.

Each function is used in either an extraverted or introverted way. A person whose dominant function is extraverted intuition, for example, uses intuition very differently from someone whose dominant function is introverted intuition.

As you can see they define very different expressions of the same function, like I illustrated.

all youre saying is "i like socionics betteR", which is fine

No, that’s all you’re hearing.

Check this out:

Jung theorized that the dominant function acts alone in its preferred world: exterior for extraverts and interior for introverts.

Jung's theory goes as such: if the dominant cognitive function is introverted then the other functions are extraverted and vice versa.

Jung proposed the existence of two dichotomous pairs of cognitive functions:

The "rational" (judging) functions: thinking and feeling The "irrational" (perceiving) functions: sensation and intuition

Jung introduces the dichotomies. They define the cognitive functions.

The MBTI Manual summarizes Jung's work of balance in psychological type as follows: "There are several references in Jung's writing to the three remaining functions having an opposite attitudinal character. For example, in writing about introverts with thinking dominant ... Jung commented that the counterbalancing functions have an extraverted character."[17]

Fundamental to the MBTI is the theory of psychological type as originally developed by Carl Jung.[1]:xiii

MBTI is committed the original Jungian type theory, it can therefore be considered internal to the theory.

Jung theorized that the dominant function acts alone in its preferred world: exterior for extraverts and interior for introverts. The remaining three functions, he suggested, operate in the opposite orientation. Some MBTI practitioners, however, place doubt on this concept as being a category error with next to no empirical evidence backing it relative to other findings with correlation evidence, yet as a theory it still remains part of Myers and Briggs' extrapolation of their original theory despite being discounted.[19]

So, again Jung’s view of the dominant function, defined by the dichotomies, is preserved in MBTI. Jung’s theory clearly states that the dominant function acts in its preferred world, which is the interior/internal world for introverts.

However, then Myers-Briggs invent this stuff, inconsistent with the Jungian type theory they themselves are committed to, and which is internal to their own MBTI theory:

Myers and Briggs held that types with a preference for judging show the world their preferred judging function (thinking or feeling). So, TJ types tend to appear to the world as logical and FJ types as empathetic. According to Myers,[1]:75 judging types like to "have matters settled".

For extraverts, the J or P indicates their dominant function; for introverts, the J or P indicates their auxiliary function. Introverts tend to show their dominant function outwardly only in matters "important to their inner worlds".

Suddenly it’s all about "showing the world" (meaning the external world, the domain of extraversion) their dominant function, making it extraverted by default.

In clear contradiction with Jung’s emphasis on preferred world, being either introverted or extraverted.

This is logically inconsistent with the Jungian type theory MBTI is committed to interpreting, and that is internal to it. Thus likely an internal logical inconsistency, and at best just shitty theorizing.

Class dismissed.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

All You linked me to and explained was introversion and extraversion, not ANYTHING explaining what the nonexistent "extroverted logic" is, which you seem to be asserting as a function. So I didnt read the rest

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Alright, fucking queen of semantics. I wrote "extraverted logic", which is equivalent to "extraverted thinking", both are used to interchangeably in socionics. Don’t tell me you didn’t even get that equivalence.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

Look up Socionics

ROFL.

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Right, and what is this supposed to mean to me? Are you going to argue your case, do you have a case?

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

How is socionics better?

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

It’s a more fleshed out theory, which has better internal consistency, specifically with regards to how it relates the Jungian psychological functions to the four dichotomies; and consequently especially how that affects the descriptions of all the introverted types. It does a better job of interpreting and elaborating on the Jungian type theory it is derived from and expands on.

The four dichotomies describe the dominant function primarily, consistent with Jung’s assertion that the introverts and extraverts have different "preferred worlds" in which they primarily express their dominant function, preferring their inward (introverted) and outward (extravertes) world respectively.

Whereas MBTI arbitrarily decides that the two primary functions of a type are instead defined by what dominant function is primarily expressed towards the external world (the domain of extraversion), regardless of whether the type is introverted or extraverted, and inconsistent with Jung’s notion of said "preferred worlds".

As a consequence, and even more so arbitrarily, for the theory to add up, the psychological functions are defined starting with the secondary function for introverts, while starting with the primary function for extraverts. It is messy, unintelligible and inelegant, and not preserving theoretical simplicity. Making Socionics relatively clean, intelligible, elegant and preserving of theoretical simplicity.

Socionics also arguably has better scientific potential because it is more falsifiable, due to how it attempts to predict personal relationships and group dynamics, rather than merely circular predictions about individual types (like for example the "prediction" that introverts are more likely to spend time alone is hardly falsifiable, but rather given by definition)

Though I don’t consider either MBTI and Socionics scientific, but rather just theories of different potential and interest.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

the four dichotomies

This exactly was the reason why they are shit. People are seen to be A or B, rather than somewhere close to the middle. Most people are near the middle, just like when it comes to height or IQ.

The four dichotomies describe the dominant function primarily, consistent with Jung’s assertion that the introverts and extraverts have different "preferred worlds" in which they primarily express their dominant function, preferring their inward (introverted) and outward (extravertes) world respectively.

And most people are not super-extraverted or super-introverted. They are in somewhat middle state.

Though I don’t consider either MBTI and Socionics scientific, but rather just theories of different potential and interest.

Yeah, I don't consider the statement that the Moon is made of cheese as scientific too, even though it's falsifiable.

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

This exactly was the reason why they are shit. People are seen to be A or B, rather than somewhere close to the middle. Most people are near the middle, just like when it comes to height or IQ.

Not exactly, and not necessarily. It’s comparable to being left or right handed. It doesn’t mean you only either have a left or right hand, or that you can only use one of the hands, or that you are not skilled with both hands. It doesn’t even mean that the right hand is always the most used or most important hand in all situations. It does not mean that you can’t deliberately train your left hand to have better motor skills. It simply means that your right hand is more developed, and that you are better disposed and equipped to utilize it, that you are more likely to rely on it (no pun or intended). Yet for many or most situations you will use both hands working together in a coordinated manner.

Would you say most people fall somewhere in the middle with regards to being left or right handed, though?

Some parts of human biology are somewhat dichotomic. Like the two brain halves, and possibly the predominance of some neurotransmitters over others in the brain. I think I read somewhere that extraversion is associated with higher dopamine, while introversion is associated with lower dopamine along with a more prominent presence of acetylcholine.

Do you think the typical engineer and nurse both fall closely towards the middle ground with regards to interest in human interaction versus logical systems?

Yeah, I don't consider the statement that the Moon is made of cheese as scientific too, even though it's falsifiable.

Right, that’s not exactly comparable. That’s a nonsensical and outlandish prediction, that has already been falsified, while the problem with these theories is rather that they make statements that are not falsifiable, or are hard to test and make falsifiable.

[–]happycheese86No Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If it makes them happy, I can respect the lifestyle. I just wish they would do it in a way that didn't support such an awful organization.

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's honestly an economic decision first and foremost. These trad women don't like the fact that they have to work for a living and can no longer rely on trad men to support them any longer. Secular women go WGTOW or demand socialism, trad women move to convents.

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Don't nuns work?

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[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Good topic but unfortunately analyzed through the usual PPD lens of “cuz women need to get back in the kitchen.”

People often wonder how America can simultaneously be one of the most religious and one of the most dangerous societies. When a society is cutthroat, hypercompetitive, hyperindividualistic, materialistic, tribal, violent and downright angry, people are looking to believe in something. Americans have figured out they can’t believe in or trust anything else, so why not give religion as shot to find some grounding, meaning, camaraderie and sense of peace. I am not surprised at all that more women are choosing this route.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

analyzed through the usual PPD lens of “cuz women need to get back in the kitchen.”

How is that what you got from the post?

People often wonder how America can simultaneously be one of the most religious and one of the most dangerous societies.

No they don't, and that's not even remotely true on either account

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

How is that what you got from the post?

Let’s see..

Modern society isn't freeing women to find fulfillment in female ways

Women are grappling with the pressure of having to replace the security that men once brought to their lives,

From the perspective of young women, the future looks like a long depressing slog of working full-time while also managing the house and caring for children in an increasingly harsh economy

Saw right through this one. We’re not as dumb around here as you think we are.

No they don't, and that's not even remotely true on either account

Sounds like you just don’t want to make an effort dispute my point.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

How would me pointing out that women RIGHTFULLY can no longer depend on men for financial or relationship security, be interpreted as me saying that "women need to get back in the kitchen"? Obviously that wouldn't work out for them at all, would it.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

simultaneously be one of the most religious and one of the most dangerous societies.

I mean, Middle East beats America in both.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

US has the 14th highest murder rate in the world — higher than any middle eastern country.

2/3 of Americans say they attend religious services regularly and 90% believe in a higher power.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

And atheist European countries tend to have lower crime rates. I can't say that religion and crimes don't accompany each other.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ok...

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Religion is the place where people scared by crimes find their shelter. If this was not clear.

[–]czerdec0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The correct answer is the explosive increase in misandry in society, combined with the collapse in average rates of psychological resilience.

Since the 1980s children in the USA have been deprived of the opportunity to play with other kids without adult supervision. Unsupervised play is extremely important in the development of psychological resilience. If there's always an adult in view to complain to, children don't develop resilience and the stereotype of the so-called "snowflake" is the result.

So, because they are already primed to hate men and also because they don't have the psychological resilience to handle a sexual relationship with another human, male or female, the nunnery is an attractive option for these hateful, scared, weak women.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

are there christian covents for married couples?

[–]AngryNurse20190 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women make free choices is great!

[–]_Anarchon_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why are record numbers of young women interested in becoming nuns?

Mental illness is becoming more prevalent

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

erotic fixation on the themes of submissiveness to an all knowing father and the aesthetics of faith

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Millenials, and millenial women in particular, are perhaps the most obnoxiously moralizing, preachy, judgemental, woe-is-me, hateful, self centered, anti sexual bunch of people ever to inhabit this planet... so it only makes sense that they flock to the priesthood to do IRL what they routinely do over the internet: accuse others of immorality, heap scorn upon this sinful planet/society, preach the end times (global warming), and most of all, MAKE SURE NO ONE ELSE CAN ENJOY SEX, via the ever convenient myths of rape hysteria and male "toxicity".

One also can't forget their drone like obedience to a larger narrative, like privilege, or intersectionality... god is just an older version of that old collective voice in which the individual disappears and only the cause, crusade or will of god matters. No one is ever good enough, everyone is a sinner, humanity (in particular men) are rife with sin... be it racism, sexism or just moral impurity. And there's also the incredibly deep narcissism of millenials. I mean, imagine being so egotistical that you unironically imagine the creator of the universe has a personal relationship with you (lol) and actually speaks to you.

I really do fear another inquisition or great purge if millenials ever win their war against the boomers for the soul of the nation. With their constant hashtag witchhunts trying to get people fired or doxxed, it's a hop skip and jump away from actual witchhunts. People born after 1989 or so seem to have the flash of fiery madness in the eyes that Torquemada probably had. When the victimhood mentality grows some immense that it collapses in on itself like a singularity and becomes a kind of all encompassing over-hate that wants to erase the entire sinful earth and bask in the apocalypse, that's when you know you're either dealing with a religious zealot, or a socially active millenial.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hearing the voice of God in a personal way was not invented by milliennials, I hate to break it to you. Ever heard of Joan of Arc?

You think it’s egotistical?

Didn’t you recently say that you want to like, fight God, and then become God, or something equally crazy?

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Millenials, and millenial women in particular, are perhaps the most obnoxiously moralizing, preachy, judgemental, woe-is-me, hateful, self centered, anti sexual bunch of people ever to inhabit this planet

Can’t believe I’m agreeing with you of all people

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Run out and buy a lotto ticket gang, this is a day for the improbable

[–]drsx2-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"- roles, incidentally, that men are already long checked out of via video games and general apathy"

The accusation of ALL men being 'gaming vegetables who have exited society' is equally as offensive as saying that all women are AWALT/innately hypergamous sluts.

[–]ElderlyAlderAsk me about the Toe Pill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not offended by anyone saying that women are AWALT/innately hypergamous sluts

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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