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I was reading a passage from the book “The Elementary Particles” by Michel Houellebecq and the following passage really stuck out to me.

“Without beauty a girl is unhappy because she has missed her chance to be loved. People do not jeer at her, they are not cruel to her, but it is as if she were invisible—no eyes follow her as she walks. People feel uncomfortable when they are with her. They find it easier to ignore her. A girl who is exceptionally beautiful, on the other hand, who has something which too far surpasses the customary seductive freshness of adolescence, appears somehow unreal.”

What are your thoughts on this?


[–][deleted] 107 points108 points  (165 children) | Copy Link

Lines up with what I've seen. Attractive girls get opportunities and treatment that unattractive or unremarkable girls don't get, attractive girls who are also charming even more so

It's also not just girls- my mom is in her 60s, fit and attractive and dresses well, very charming in a dignified sort of way, and gets treated completely differently from other women in their 60s

[–]SqueaksScreech24 points25 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Same with my mom she's in her 40s. She gets a lot of unwanted attention.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yea my mom's too old for the unwanted kind of attention

Men just benevolently adore her now

[–]qwertyuiop111222Purple Pill Masticator8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Men just benevolently adore her now

Ooh, I know what you're talking about. I've done this!

[–]Sociallyfunctional 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's super cute

I want to be like her when I'm that old haha

[–]lemonfluff2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What's she like?

[–]MasonMan123419 points20 points  (154 children) | Copy Link

That's true, but ugly women aren't invisible as OP claims they are.

[–]Ofourkind55 points56 points  (144 children) | Copy Link

They are.

I'm attractive and my closest friend is obese and unattractive. Men literally pretend she isnt even there. They will introduce themselves to me, carry on conversation, etc without even looking at her let alone acknowledging her and saying hello. Hot, average, ugly, young and old. It has happened hundreds and hundreds of times. We have a whole routine for it, it's so common. It started in our teens and carries on into our forties

[–]lemonfluff10 points11 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

It's so cruel. I just dont get it. I would never just ignore someone, regardless of how they looked. I would always speak to all the guys in the group, even if the one I was interested in was there and I have no interest in the others. It's just polite.

Unfortunately the guys think that means I'm interested in them just because I'm being polite like is commen decency. Surely it should be the norm that you treat people like people and with respect without needing to assume it means you want sex?

[–]SupremeMystique7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It's so cruel. I just dont get it. I would never just ignore someone, regardless of how they looked. I would always speak to all the guys in the group, even if the one I was interested in was there and I have no interest in the others. It's just polite.

BULLSHIT. Women aren't any more fair than me. It's not any different. I'm short, whenever I'm at any social gathering, the women will ignore me if there is a taller guy there and talk with him.

It's incredible the double standards that exist here. Ugly women always have to be empathized with but people are drastically critical of any unattractive guy who complains.

[–]lemonfluff3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I said that I would not ignore a guy because of their looks. At the very least Id aknowledge them before talking to someone I was interested in sexually.

[–]mercurialmrn2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Dude, why cant both coexist?

[–]SupremeMystique2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Well, it's a double standard. Both do exist. Ugly women are always empathized but unattractive guys are held to a higher bar

[–]mercurialmrn3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What, empathized by other women? Yes, women do their best to emphasize with each other. A side effect of toxic masculinity is a lot of men largely lack empathy. Empathy is something you have to continuously work on in life.

[–]SupremeMystique2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, it's not jsut women empathizing with women. People overall are more sympathetic to women.

A side effect of toxic masculinity is a lot of men largely lack empath

OMG, there it is. The same old trite bullshit that bluepillers lazily throw around. How fucking original.

Empathy is something you have to continuously work on in life.

I'm the one who is willing to actually empathize with people here, everyone tries to shit on less attractive guys who complain about their troubles in life while not having that standard with unattractive women.

[–]mercurialmrn1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't be talking to the incel community if I didnt feel empathy and compassion for them. I think these men need support outside this seemingly negative community.

[–]GOR0982 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Those guys are just projecting their own thinking onto you.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man19 points20 points  (95 children) | Copy Link

Well it makes sense that non ugly men would ignore her and focus on more attractive people. But the women here, really women in general, go on and on about how they just want to be left alone by ugly men. So if ugly men ignore her, aren't they doing her a favor? Sounds like she'd be a victim no matter what.

[–]PrehistoricPrincessNothing is sexier than mutual empathy and respect17 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

There's a difference between not being constantly hit on, and being ignored as a human being. Men who aren't attractive are generally still acknowledged as people--why is it that no one ever makes fun of Jeff Bezos' looks, but mediocre-looking women with a public standing are constantly crucified for their looks, weight, or fashion sense? Because they are seen more as eye sores than human beings. Unattractive men who have something valuable to contribute to society--a good personality, ambition, fame, success, whatever it may be--their appearances are generally overlooked by others. Unattractive women are overlooked, period. They aren't even glanced at; no hello, nothing. I'm an attractive woman and have a similar experience to the previous commenter. The fact that men of all variety of attractiveness--from highly unattractive to highly attractive--will greet me and make polite or friendly conversation, etc. and then completely ignore unattractive female friends of mine has actually created social rifts for me before. When I say they're ignored, I don't mean they aren't hit on. When men talk to me, it's not always to hit on me. But I have had men come up to me and hold an entire conversation with me while entirely ignoring, even facing their backs to, meh-looking friends of mine. It is like they don't exist at all.

[–]s86ahmed6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

LOL people on PPD exaggerate personal experiences but this is spot on. Guys aren't blatantly rude to unattractive girls, its more an annoyance to talk to them unless you absolutely have to and even then the conversation is to the point and with minimal small chat. Heck even when rejecting them romantically, when we tell our friends its more like she wasn't our type lookswise as opposed to calling her ugly.

[–]Blacklivesmatthew3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Kinda lost me at the end there, bud

[–]ready2ropePinkpilled former femcel6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lmao, I keep seeing that too and it kills me. I don't get attention from men at all. I'd honestly kill to be treated like these regular Beckies and Stacies apparently are whenever they go out.

[–]meomeowmeoww 1 points [recovered]  (20 children) | Copy Link

I've dated meh men, they just want hot women no matter what. Its probably better to just be alone instead of being in a pending-dumped-relationship.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man4 points5 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

So what? Women do that even more. My comment is saying that women don't even want ugly men to exist around them, unless apparently it is to feed them attention. "I don't want ugly men to think they can get with me or even try, but I better act like a victim because they don't give me attention and make me feel invisible". jfc pick a lane.

[–]meomeowmeoww 1 points [recovered]  (18 children) | Copy Link

WOMEN(not ugly women) don't even want UGLY men to exist around them, unless apparently it is to feed them attention

why are uggos shocked that people above them treat them like shit? i really cant understand it.

[–]jessicaannpin3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is no excuse for treating someone badly. It doesn’t matter what they look like. Everyone deserves respect and consideration.

People are not “above” others just because they are more attractive.

Also, beauty is very much subjective. One guy’s 7 could be another guy’s 10.

And an asshole is going to be an asshole.

I’ve dated a perfect looking actor/model signed with Ford Models who was a total sweetheart.

Meanwhile I’ve had much less attractive men treat me like shit.

There has definitely not been a positive correlation between looks and treating me badly. If anything, the best looking guys have treated me better.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

Nah, uggo women are the exact same. They just also complain about not getting enough attention.

Yeah, same. I wonder why uggos complain about being pumped and dumped/treated like shit. They shouldn't ever be shocked.

[–]jessicaannpin6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

There is no excuse for treating someone badly. It doesn’t matter what they look like. Everyone deserves respect and consideration.

People are not “above” others just because they are more attractive.

Also, beauty is very much subjective. One guy’s 7 could be another guy’s 10.

And an asshole is going to be an asshole.

I’ve dated a perfect looking actor/model signed with Ford Models who was a total sweetheart.

Meanwhile I’ve had much less attractive men treat me like shit.

There has definitely not been a positive correlation between looks and treating me badly. If anything, the best looking guys have treated me better.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm not the one who said people are above others, unsurprisingly it was the woman in the convo.

[–]meomeowmeoww 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

men complain about attractive women. women complain about meh men.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Women complain about both getting too much attention and not getting enough. It's stupid. They also complain about attractive men if those men don't treat them exactly how they want to be treated (ie don't act exactly as women want them to, even if it is contrary to their own prerogative).

Men complain about one thing, not having hot girls pay them attention.

[–]Ofourkind12 points13 points  (59 children) | Copy Link

She doesn't want to be bothered in public just going about her day by anyone. She sees it happening to me and understands how fucking annoying it is. She had zero desire to be cold approached. But a hello every now and then would be nice.

We just both find it very interesting that she apparently wears an invisibility cloak around pretty much all men.

[–]EminemLovesGrapesSpongebob2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Doesn't that kind of devalue the treatment you get then?

When you meet a guy who doesn't even act like your obese friend is there is obviously only acting nice to you because of ulterior motives.

[–]Ofourkind0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would never respond positively to a cold approach in any circumstance, so it's a moot point

[–]zetaconvex1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

OK, but it's not like men actually "owe" her anything.It's not like we're under a contract to fulfil some kind of quota of chatting up the fuglies.

As I said in another post, it's the norm for most (but of course not all) guys to be invisible.

There's no malintent here. It's just a case of "commiserations, you're one of the vast group of people on this planet for whom no-one gives a shit".

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man8 points9 points  (52 children) | Copy Link

Right, so it sounds like she is getting what she wants and the men are doing what should be done.

If she wants a hello, she can initiate the greeting. We've got enough women having their ego blown up, don't need any more.

[–]Ofourkind23 points24 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

She does say hello, and the dudes don't even hear/notice her. That's the point of my comment.

Ugly dudes complain constantly that they are ignored by women, but what they really mean is that they are ignored by pretty women.

But yes generally no women want to be bothered by men when they are just going about their day. That's annoying as fuck.

[–]zetaconvex1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She does say hello, and the dudes don't even hear/notice her. That's the point of my comment.

I find that difficult to believe. Us men aren't pigs, you know, we're generally capable of being civil people.

But yes generally no women want to be bothered by men when they are just going about their day. That's annoying as fuck.

Us men are "dammed if we do, dammed if we don't." What you're saying is that men are supposed to read your mind and only behave exactly the way you want them to when you want them to. And FFS, no midgets. They shouldn't even be looking at a woman.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Yea but ugly men don't complain about being bothered like women do. Women want the best of both worlds. Ugly men would love to be bothered like women are. Women want attention from attractive men and to be ignored by ugly men.

Ugly men are ignored by everyone, ugly women included.

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You literally just said:

Well it makes sense that non ugly men would ignore her and focus on more attractive people.

So no, ugly women are ignored by everyone too, including ugly men.

Lay off the oppression Olympics. It’s tired.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was replying to

Ugly dudes complain constantly that they are ignored by women, but what they really mean is that they are ignored by pretty women.

No, what ugly men mean is that they are ignored by all women. I didn't say ugly women weren't ignored by everyone. And women benefit because they constantly complain about ugly men "bothering" them. At least ugly men are consistent, and don't simultaneously complain that ugly women are ignoring them while also not showing them enough attention.

C'mon poppy, you've been here for years - reading comprehension should be better by now.

[–]lemonfluff5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Are you doing this deliberately?

Women as a whole, don't want relentless attention from anyone once they've indicated they're not interested, attractive or not. Generally women also dont want to be disturbed when walking down the street (especially with headphones in) or minding their own business.

But that's not to say women don't want to be treated with respect as people. They want to be acknowledged if someone is joining in a group conversation or is talking right in front of them. They want to be given the time of day if they ask a question.

And they want to be able to chat and have a conversation with guys, even when sex isn't on the cards.

Big difference between "I hate it when guys treat me as an object and hit on me after I've said no" and "I want guys to acknowledge my presence in a social setting if they interrupt my conversation with my friend". They're not contradictory points. You can want both.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You're ignoring the point that if guys did that then they'd look down on the men for paying them attention and thinking he wanted to sleep with them. That's what the women are upset about, not getting the attention they feel they are entitled to.

[–]meomeowmeoww 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yea but ugly men don't complain about being bothered like women do.

oh ok ugly men are acknowledged and bothe-

Ugly men are ignored by everyone, ugly women included.

Huh? are they invisible or are they not?

or are did you want to give men a medal for not complaining about something that doesn't happen to them?

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Even if they did get bothered they wouldn't complain about it. Read my posts a few back that say they would love to get the attention women complain about.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nooooo, ugly dudes, even average dudes are ignored by virtually all women. Ugly women can absolutely get hot dudes to fuck them, and average/ugly guys to date them. Unattractive dudes are straight screwed.

You have this backwards for no reason at all

[–]poppy_bluBeware the freight train10 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

There’s that empathy PPD men are famous for

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yep, I understood that women ask to be left alone and pointed out that they are getting it. I get their viewpoint. I just also get that they want the best of both worlds.

[–]meomeowmeoww 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

i saw some men saying they like to be financially dominated so i guess all men like it amirite? every other man is a total hypocrite

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Men who want to be financially are a minority. Not the same for what we are discussing.

[–]lemonfluff-1 points0 points  (33 children) | Copy Link

If you're one of those women you say hello and the guys literally dont even look at you or say hi back. Or if they do they'll say "hi" and leave straight away in a very rude and dismissive fashion.

Whatever happened to commen decency of just being able to chat a bit without needing to have a promise of sex at the end?

[–]N0blesse0blige1 point2 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

What happened to getting to know each others as friends first then possibly moving on to a romantic relationship over time? Women (via the sexual revolution) killed that off. Seriously, almost no one does that anymore, yet just 50 years ago it was the standard for all dating.

Now perhaps men are killing off non-sexual contact with women altogether.

Women seemingly consistently reward men who go for sex from the start, then complain about missing non-sexual contact with men.

Why would any woman expect less attractive men to line up to be platonic friends while those same women reserve sex exclusively for more attractive men?

[–]badgersonice4 points5 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

>Why would any woman expect less attractive men to line up to be platonic friends while those same women reserve sex exclusively for more attractive men?

If those less attractive men are interacting with you only on the condition that you might someday offer sex, then their interest isn't platonic, and never was.

[–]N0blesse0blige3 points4 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

If those less attractive men are interacting with you only on the condition that you might someday offer sex, then their interest isn't platonic, and never was.

Yes. Men’s interest in women is almost never platonic. The relationship between non-related, heterosexual, single, similarly aged (by a very wide margin) men and women is inherently sexual at least from men’s viewpoint. I think women intuitively and instinctively know this too. Men inherently seek sexual validation, to be recognized as sexual beings by women. Similar to how women want to be recognized as full persons, not be just sexually objectified by men.

Expecting men to want platonic relationships is stupid, naive and frequently self-centered. It’s similar to men expecting women to be content with only having sex and never having a serious relationship.

Then proceeding to complain that if those women want to be more than just used for sex, they were never interested in those men sexually in the first place.

True platonic friendship is known by a mutual lack of sexual interest, either in terms of sexual acceptance or rejection. I’ve never rejected my male platonic friends for sex, because it isn’t even a thought or possibility in the first place. The idea of it is a matter of mutual disgust and is never seriously considered.

The so-called platonic male-female friendships some women claim to have are marked by sexual rejection of the men they seek to befriend. They project the non-sexual feelings they have onto those men, but they are almost always wrong. These relationships are pseudo-platonic.

I would think women too know the this difference between truly platonic and pseudo-platonic from the difference between their female and male relationships. However, women frequently view their male friends as their girlfriends (which is btw inherently disrespectful, condescending and hurtful to a man), and seem to have a more sexualized view of their female friendships too.

[–]madcockatielAlpha Bird, Slayer of Cloaca3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Seriously, almost no one does that anymore

What are you smokin man that’s still how a ton of relationships start. Possibly even the majority, despite the existence of online dating and hookup culture

[–]N0blesse0blige1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What are you smokin man that’s still how a ton of relationships start. Possibly even the majority, despite the existence of online dating and hookup culture

I’ve hardly ever seen it, much less experienced it.

I only breathe fresh air, being a non-smoker.

[–]lemonfluff-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men who go straight in for sex are constantly called creeps and fuckbois by women.

[–]N0blesse0blige2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women only call men they or one of their friends have already been fucking, fuckbois. Meaning it’s a guy women are already actively rewarding with their pussies. I’m sure he can handle the honorary fuckboi label, which will probably get him laid even more if anything.

Creeps is the label for unwanted, unsuccessful, less attractive men. Doesn’t mean they’re necessarily doing it wrong, just that they need to become more attractive while doing it.

I’d wish friendship were a path to a romantic and sexual relationship. Meaning male-female friendship, not "platonic" friendship which I’m sure you’ll agree isn’t meant to lead anywhere. It just isn’t in my experience. Sex on the first date is, in the sense that it very well can be.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

But a hello every now and then would be nice.

Doing something between her teens and 40s to not be obese would also be nice.

[–]Ofourkind1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Same could be said about most men as well

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I agree. Here is this man's DEXA scan history. Have I qualified to advise people, men and women alike, not to be fat fucking pigs?

[–]sugarcurious 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

There’s a difference from not showing interest and blatantly pretending someone doesn’t even exist.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Not to women. If men did show interest, especially to the ugly women, they would claim "ugh these ugly men just won't leave me alone, they want me so bad". Women in generally already get gassed up too much.

[–]madcockatielAlpha Bird, Slayer of Cloaca3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Pardon my French but you’re totally talking out your ass lol. Being treated like you exist isn’t a high bar and doesn’t cross into the territory of unwanted attention. It’s quite telling that you consider unattractive women receiving the same basic social courtesy as most men and women to be “gassing them up.”

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Women who receive attention from ugly men believe the worst and will think they are hitting on them. Ugly men are safer not interacting with ugly women. In general, ugly women are already gassed up because the dating market tilts so heavily in favor of women.

[–]madcockatielAlpha Bird, Slayer of Cloaca1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why only ugly women though? Why does this logic not apply to all women? Surely if ugly women are “gassed up” then average or attractive women are even worse. So why be outwardly rude only to ugly women? It seems like a transparent attempt to punish them for being an eyesore and I find it very odd that you’re continuing to try to justify it.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is true, all women are gassed up - but ugly women as well.

Because women punish ugly men as well. They justify it as ugly men being genetically unfit or whatever. Ugly women get like +2 just for having a vagina, so to be an ugly women they must be truly genetically deficient.

[–]lemonfluff1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a difference between acknowledging someone exists / being generally polite / a decent human being, and relentlessly hitting on someone.

No woman wants to be relentlessly hit on by someone they've said no to. The people they say no to are likely to be people they're not attracted to initially. You can be nice to someone without being actively looking to fuck (look up how women are to others, every day regardless of looks).

[–]jessicaannpin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No. That implies the only value in women is appearance.

[–]fevertree0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They are...they are doing her a favor. Correct.

[–]darkmoon097 points8 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

I'm attractive and my closest friend is obese and unattractive. Men literally pretend she isnt even there.

Guarantee if she made a tinder profile with the captions 'DTF' she wouldn't feel so invisible anymore. She has options. She's just complaining they're not the options she wants.

[–]freyja879 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah who doesn't want to be pumped and dumped, treated like trash and discarded like trash?

[–]lilacluna54812 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Id hate to only be wanted for sex. Why would anyone want that to be their only option?

[–]ready2ropePinkpilled former femcel11 points12 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Even guys just hooking up with girls treat ugly and fat ones way worse than they'd treat the hot ones. The hot ones having a pleasant mutual experience don't just get treated like a wet hole, men go out of their way to please them.

[–]darkmoon092 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It's something though. Something is better than nothing.

[–]ready2ropePinkpilled former femcel5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No it isn't. You come out of it feeling worse than you did before - instead of having the thought of "I am unwanted and worthless" echoing around your own head, someone just goes and proves it for you by treating you like shit.
You think, "hey, if a man has sex with me, it means he wants me and is attracted to me and i'm not ugly and i'm worth something, right?" and then the next thing you know you've just been degraded in such a way no man would ever do to a girl he actually wanted.

Getting penetrated is only ever not degrading to Beckies or Stacies when they're having a mutual experience with a man. You wouldn't understand because to you, having sex isn't putting yourself in a degrading position, only to potentially be degraded even more.

If you can recognise the cold way that cashier tightly smiles at you and greets you when you go through her register, as opposed to how she smiles openly and talks passionately with Chad, and you can understand that hurt, then why can't you understand this?

[–][deleted]Schrödinger's misogynist4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Speaking generally I guess its because men are just as blind to the female experience as women are to the experience of dudes despite thinking not to be, men and women both have no damn clue about their instincts sometimes, and people will always undermine how important of a role looks play in how we see and treat people regardless of admitting it does play a role or not and are too sick of other peoples pretentious moral high grounds causing them to get shit on when complaining about something to believe parts of the other side.

[–]lemonfluff1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Its really not. Nothing is better than feeling used and degraded.

[–]darkmoon093 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

But women also like sex for it's own sake, people just want to feel sexy and desired.

[–]lemonfluff3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh absolutely! But guys who will not even treat you as worth a hello unless you agree to let them fuck you will not make you feel sexy and desired. It also won't be good sex. Most likely itll be painful and uncomfortable, you wont orgasm, hell kick you out the second he's done (after 30 seconds of thrusting with no foreplay) and basically just use you as an alternative to masturbating.

[–]freyja871 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Like picking between drowning or being set on fire.

[–]justmebeingcurious1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Okay, I’m assuming you’re a man. Apparently, men will fuck anyone? Women who are fat, skinny, in between, etc. Is that true?

I have known of women (friends) who are overweight who will write that they’re looking for hooking-up in their bios and they usually get attractive men approaching them, irrespective of their weight.

Doesn’t that just usually mean that these men don’t really care for beauty if it means it’s a one-off thing? If it means they get to get laid.

[–]gprimeMGTOW7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Apparently, men will fuck anyone?

Many men, yes. OLD makes pretty clear that even unattractive women have plenty of choice if what they want is sex. Commitment is a harder ask, but even then, it is manageable for them if they don't try and fuck around until they're post-second fertility window and then try to settle down and find a man to finance her pair of bastards. An ugly woman who's 24 and actually has a decent personality and brings something to the table (like cooking skills and a good paying job) and who can "settle" for an equally unattractive man will do just fine. The problem is that they've deluded themselves into believing that they can get away with what their HB10 friends can, which isn't realistic.

[–]justmebeingcurious1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I think expectations shouldn’t be high in terms of outward appearance if a woman/man isn’t the best looking. But I have heard of attractive women settling for unattractive men because they’re usually insecure/doubtful if they date men equally/even more attractive.

Hmm, I think unattractive women who do get all dreamy about attractive men only JUST talk about it. It’s quite rare to see unattractive women with attractive men.

[–]vosidit98 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

It’s quite rare to see unattractive women with attractive men.

If I were to take pictures of such couples you lot would call me creepy.

[–]justmebeingcurious1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Call you creepy? Why?

[–][deleted]Schrödinger's misogynist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would consider though, Overweight does not equal unattractive. Sure to a lot of those men she's attractive in spite of the weight (though there's smaller groups into it because of her weight), but there's a difference between a woman considered ugly by most and just an overweight woman.

[–]darkmoon09-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

And your point is? Yes, men are generally willing to lower their standards for a quick lay, that doesn't refute my point at all. It proves that OP's fat friend can get laid if she really wanted to so all this "she feels invisible" crap is just that. Crap.

Women can't be incel.

[–]lemonfluff3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Feeling invisible doesnt mean "no one would ever have sex with me". Its being treated as less than human, like you dont really exist or aren't worth interacting with unless its for demeaning sex. Its not even being respected enough to be given a "hello" when a guy interrupts your conversation with your friend.

You cant really think that shes talking about sex can you? You can't really be that dense?

[–]darkmoon091 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You cant really think that shes talking about sex can you? You can't really be that dense?

Umm..given the subject matter of this sub, can you really fault me for jumping to the sex conclusion? C'mon now..

[–]justmebeingcurious2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was just asking a question because you said if she were to make a tinder profile, she'd get attention. And then you answered that men will sleep with anyone irrespective of their weight/if they're unattractive. I feel like your comment on if she was to write "dtf" on her dating bio just illustrates how men basically view women as just worthy of attention if it means they get to fuck.

But, yeah, I don't think anyone is required to give attention to anyone, but, in the context that Ofourkind has described, it is fricking RUDE. It isn't about sex. It's just basic human decency....

[–]lemonfluff0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

She doesnt want guys hitting on her incessantly. She just wahts to be treated with basic respect as a human being and aknowledged that she exists. Maybe a hi or something? Or god forbid a normal conversation.

[–]darkmoon092 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I thought we were discussing this in a dating/sex/relationship context? I'm sure she's treated pretty neutraly outside that context.

[–]lemonfluff0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah, this girl says in several comments that even if the friend starts a conversation the guy will literally ignore her and bit even say hi back. It is in a somewhat dating scenario because its when she's out with her less attractive friend and the girl is getting hit on, but its just basic decency to at least acknowledge the friend. I also read it in "when i go out for a drink with ny friend and guys will approach me and completely block my friend out"

[–]Stutercel1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"She is obese" I would not be attracted to someone with cancer, sida or bulbonic Plague either.

[–]Ofourkind1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most dudes are fat, too.

Even obese dudes only want attention from pretty girls

[–]SupremeMystique0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why is it that sob stories like this are empathized by people but if short guys say the EXACT same thing, they get attacked?

Being a short guy is much worse. Your fat friend has no excuse for being fat. A short guy is cursed by genetics and again might as well not exist in the presence of taller guys when it comes to women.

[–]Ofourkind-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Short guys only want attention from pretty women as well

[–]SupremeMystique1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And fat women dont?

I know plenty of fat girls who think they are too good for a fat guy.

There's a clear double standard were women can complain about these but when men do, they are attacked and called incels.

None of the things you mentioned are unique to unattractive women.

On top of that, your fat friend can change if she doesn't like being fat.

[–]Ofourkind1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm just enjoying the "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MEN" that happens every time anyone mentions anything about challenges women may face.

It really seems impossible for you to stay on topic

[–]uglygalthrow 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Replying again to try and get a response from you !!

[–]Ofourkind1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What?

[–]uglygalthrow 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

I wanted to know the routine you and your obese friend go through.

[–]Ofourkind1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh it's just some inside jokes

[–]abstrusermusings_ 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

This even happened with female friends for me. At my college leavers assembly, I was stood with a close friend (she was in my friendship group) and one of her friends (from her law class) came up to talk to her. She didn't even look me in the eye.

They then hugged and it was so awkward. Just stood there waiting for the long conversation to end while almost pushed up against a wall, ignored.

The worst part is I had a Language class with this girl. She knew who I was. Ironically, later on she put 'I'll miss you!' in my card. Yeah yeah, you've never even talked to me. It's an empty statement.

[–][deleted]Schrödinger's misogynist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've witnessed my dad do this ignoring several times. This is why I think that while guys aren't nearly as picky with what they find attractive, if you are that unattractive girl you're gonne have a fucked up time because dudes can at least compensate more with other things than just looks. And I can imagine its gonna be even more frustrating to see because you're in a higher minority.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure about their experiences tbh, I guess to me maybe they're not so much invisible but more like background noise

Like I only zero in on ppl that are out of the ordinary, either in looks or behaviour.. unless I'm purposely observing my surroundings or ppl watching

[–]lemonfluff1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Maybe you zero in on them but you would at least acknowledge the others right if you were joining in the conversation for example?

[–]Sociallyfunctional 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh yeah absolutely, if there's actual interaction then someone's looks have no impact, I'd never be rude to someone based on looks, that's shitty and fucked up

I was thinking invisible like if I'm at the store I tune out details on most ppl unless they've something crazy going on

[–]lemonfluff1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah, I think they were referring to being actively ignored in person whilst people talk to the hot friend and block her out. She even said her friend would approach and say "hi" first and they wouldn't even bother responding with a hi back.

[–]Cho_AssmilkArrogant RP S.O.B.2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He means they are invisible to guys who they find attractive. Their looksmatched guys notice them, but since they want nothing to do with him, they ignore him in the same way the guys she want's ignore her.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

At least you can join the circus if you are a bearded woman.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not OP but the author of the book quoted.

[–]TheReformist94-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ugly women are treated like theyre invisible, but, invisible women are 20% tops, invisible men, 80% pushing 90

[–][deleted] 66 points67 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Really attractive women are given dream lives.

Attractive women are given good times.

high valued men have high perks to life.

Unattractive women are given small perks.

Really unattractive women are given no perks. they are invisible

Non-higher valued man are mistreated.

seems about right.

[–]Five_DecadesKnows what women want. Knows he doesn't have it8 points9 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I've heard from attractive women that while they get attention, it's not the kind of attention that they want from the kind of men that they want.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

We know.

[–]Five_DecadesKnows what women want. Knows he doesn't have it6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

How is that a dream life?

Awkward guys hit on you, PUAs looking for sexual validation hit on you, men with cluster B disorders hit on you.

Being attractive doesn't necessarily mean you get the kinds of relationships you want with the kinds of men you want. It more means that its easier to get those things if that is what you are looking for.

I know lots of attractive women who didn't lead the dream life.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

All these men hitting on really attractive women are OFFERING themselves (and most importantly, their resources) to her, I can understand that too much demand can be a bother, however demand is demand.

I am not speaking without knowledge. I have an attractive little sister which resources dwarf my own and which easy life make even children envious. Her sole problens in life is men being too eager to offer themselves and high valued man not wanting relationships with her.

Even If my sister is not a 10/10 (she is an 8/10) Her life for me is already dream like. How being more beautiful would make it any less dream like?

Also, it doesn't matter which woman, all women want the top men. These men want only the extremely attractive women. So at least in this case a 10/10 would have an easier time to find a partner they want, compared to their uglier counterparts.

All in all, a dream.

[–]Five_DecadesKnows what women want. Knows he doesn't have it4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Many of the women I knew who were hot in their teens and 20s didn't end up with easy lives. They had the same problems everyone else did. Divorce, single parenthood, addiction issues, poverty, layoffs, illness, etc.

To me there didn't seem to be any correlation between how hot a girl is and how well her life turned out based on what I've seen of women I've met.

Guy's wanting to fuck you a few times and forget about you =/= positive life outcomes.

Now granted, if a woman is smart about it, she can use her looks to her advantage. Land a high RMV man. But that doesn't happen often.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think you didn't understand my point.

You are correct there is no correlation between a woman's current ease of life and a woman's past beauty However there is certainly a correlation between a woman's current ease of life and current beauty. If she uses her resources well, she may end up with this ease until death. However this is rarely the case.

Look at lottery winners, most just go back to being what they were before they won the lottery. Just because you have a high amount of resources at a moment does not mean you will have it forever, you have to invest.

[–]Five_DecadesKnows what women want. Knows he doesn't have it2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Even that, I don't know.

Most women don't use their looks to lock down a high RMV man. Many hot women if anything made terrible decisions with what kinds of guys to date.

It seems that by the time a woman has the maturity and life experience to use her looks productively, she is probably old.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Like I said, just because you have resources does not mean you know how to use them.

I would say that is more the opposite of what you say, women who somehow can make their aging process slow down also usually slow down their maturity and knowledge. The same can be said about people who are born in riches and somehow still can siphon some of their family's wealth. Usually the lack of resources precede the learning of how to use the resources efficiently.

In other words. you only learn the value of what you have (and how you use it) when you no longer has it (or is losing it a lot).

[–]AwayNecessary2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly I don't think being attractive makes people any happier overall, same thing with money or even status. Sure it makes it easier to get who you want but that only makes you temporarily happy, then you return to whatever your baseline is after a while. Same thing with suddenly getting a lot of money or moving up in social status. So if you're not happier overall and you still have to deal with attention from men you aren't attracted to is that really better? I know some attractive girls and one very attractive guy and they really don't seem any happier than anyone else. "Dream lives" is a little much in my opinion.

[–]uglygalthrow 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

Change that to (really) unattractive are abused

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

That is just wrong.

[–]uglygalthrow 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

Gender?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Look at my name and take a guess.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Look at my name and take a guess.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Look at my name and take a guess.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Look at my name and take a guess.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Look at my name and take a guess.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Look at my name and take a guess.

[–]billyStoves0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Anyone can work hard for their dream lives. How ever I would say women depend on their looks much more then men.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A woman has the choice of depending on their looks. Yes. however the same opportunity does not happen to most men. Women can work hard or depend on looks or their sex or some mix of those. men mostly can only work hard.

[–]HalfysRedditIndependent thinker2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's more fair to say that women can get much more out of their looks than men.

Like yea, being an attractive guy is beneficial and all, and if you're good-looking enough you can even make a career out of modeling, but compared to that one industry there's like a dozen industries for attractive women. Modeling, camming, sugaring, escorting, advertising - they all require their own hustle like any gig does but there's way more options.

[–]Pastelitomaracucho31 points32 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Yes, attractive girls have it much easier. I have seen attractive girls skyrocket up their careers while ugly girls just don't advance as fast.

That said, I have seen most girls, at some point in their lives, no matter how ugly, ending up with someone.

In fact the ones that end up alone are not necessarily the ugliest ones.

[–]vosidit98 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

Women can have missing limbs and other handicaps and still get married and have kids.

[–]dharmabird677 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ugly women won't get the provider though, they will have to provide, often be the sole breadwinner. We never have the luxury of entertaining the princess housewife fantasy, we have to work as long as an employer will have us.

[–]PumpkinFeet-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Assuming equal numbers of men and women, what you are saying is impossible, unless more men settle than women? I'd have thought it's the opposite?

[–]TPastore10ViniciusGBlue Pill Man-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

How does that work when they're as many men out there as women

[–]vosidit98 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because there are slightly more men than women out there. And desperation.

[–]TPastore10ViniciusGBlue Pill Man1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's practically 50-50

[–]Juko00725 points26 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I would say as an ugly girl, you'll have about the same life as an average guy. You have to invest heavily in relationships and probably will have to make a lot of compromises. People don't really care how you are doing as long as you're functioning properly for society. You won't get any special treatment, opportunities, favors or kindness just because you're attractive. You will have to work hard and constantly prove yourself.

[–]dharmabird6716 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty spot on. Source: lifetime as an ugly girl, then ugly woman.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think it’s true. I’m not a neuroscientist, but it’s almost as if different parts of my brain process people I want to fuck and people I don’t want to fuck.

Men, family, and unattractive women all fall into the category of people who I don’t consider sexually at all. I don’t see them as sexual beings, even though they are. It’s like a cognitive dissonance. The option just doesn’t exist.

[–]TheReformist942 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not cognitive dissonance. I have my close group of male and female friends, after that, I don't invest any time into interactions that don't lead to fucks

[–]Shadow_Of_Chad-Lite8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women, atleast the ones on this sub are fine with letting romance for men become the hunger games so I'm not very sympathetic with ugly girls.

[–]gopher_glitz38 points39 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Plenty of men are thirsty as fuck so even ugly women have never had it easier.

[–]Blonsomio 1 points [recovered]  (65 children) | Copy Link

If she can keep her hypergamy under control she can end up with a man who's at her level, just look at walmart couples.

The problem is that some of them can't. They have a one night stand with a handsome guy and think she's hot. Social media and body positivity also fuels delusions that they're hotter than they are and e deserve better men than the men at her level.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope10 points11 points  (54 children) | Copy Link

Why does walmart attract unattractive people?

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman19 points20 points  (45 children) | Copy Link

It's cheap I guess.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (44 children) | Copy Link

How is attractiveness linked to finances?

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman29 points30 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

In America the poor people are obese and the rich improve heir looks through cosmetics/gym/surgeries/dentists.

[–]binkerfluid5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

for real though I work in events and the rich people that attend and throw them are all tall and good looking for the most part.

[–]PumpkinFeet1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The rich are likely just better looking as well. Rich guys get hotter wives and have better looking kids. 100 generations of this and the rich will be more attractive than the poor.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The last 100 generations probably married girls from their class (other rich kids), not hot peasant women.

[–]AceFlashhearty chromosome best chromosome3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also IQ and it's links to discipline. Smarter people are less likely to "let themselves go".

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Why are obese people poor, though? Is fat acceptance widespread particularly among poor people?

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No. Many obese people are poor because they can't afford to go to the gym or eat healthily. Unfortunately in North America, it's very common that people at the poverty line will likely only be eating very low quality food that's very high in corn syrup, preservatives, fat, and sugar. It's also common for people at this point of poverty to have more than one job, meaning very little time to prepare food and take care of themselves; meals usually come out of cans or boxed tv dinners.

There's also the fact that nutritional information and learning to eat healthily is actually a privilege in some places. Only people who go to higher quality schools really learn to eat properly; poorer city schools will put little to no money into that type of information and knowledge.

[–]adeptusminor5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Add in CORTISOL from the stress.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This was educating.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Didn't you notice that poor people everywhere (excluding third world countries in which famines are a thing) are fatter? I'm guessing it's a combination of stress and carbs.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't see that happening in Moscow. Rural people are both poorer and fatter, but within cities I don't notice a correlation between finances and weight.

[–]ZeebussFederal Boob Inspector4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Cheap, processed foods are fattening and addictive. Eating healthy requires either more money or higher willpower (beans and rice are very cheap and healthy but a boring diet).

[–]storytellermich1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's why one must learn how to use spices.

[–]ZeebussFederal Boob Inspector2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is true, but having been there I can attest that spices can only do so much to relieve the repetition.

[–]Mad_Luddite3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some people are more intelligent and have better impulse control than others. The natural skills that lead to some people making (and saving) more money also lead them to staying thinner and healthier.

It's much more true of women, though. Poor men are only a little fatter than rich men.

[–]Aeiexgjhyoun_IIIPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

America is rich enough that the poor can be fat. A luxury the poor aren't afforded in the third world. Rich Americans can also afford quality gym memberships, surgery and organic food, so they're more beautiful.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Even in Russia poor can be fat (rural people simply grow plants and eat them), that's not the question.

surgery

I thought average (non-poor) people still can't afford it except for minor fixes (like fixing a nose).

[–]Ofourkind16 points17 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Is this a serious question?

Poor people dont have the same access to cosmetics, basic healthcare, nutritious foods, gyms etc.

Take the hottest chick you know. Have her pump out a few kids before 25, be forced to grocery shop at 7 eleven for a few years, put her in bargain bin rags, take away her dental care so her teeth are rotting out of her head, and slap on some dollar store makeup and press-ons and see how attractive you think she is.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Have her pump out a few kids before 25

Is this still a case for poor people in cities?

Well, naturally unattractive girls are unattrative though, not because they are poor and have pumped a few kids and have their teeth rotten.

[–]Ofourkind3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

poverty makes pretty much everyone ugly

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Well, is walmart that cheap and outstanding in its cheapness?

[–]Ofourkind2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Are you American?

Yes Walmart is uniquely cheap and almost always in economically depressed areas. Very few major cities in the US have a Walmart.

[–]funobtainium2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, I don't like Walmart, but that's not really true. They exist in some parts of America more than others. There are 300 Walmarts in Texas, and they're not all in ghettos.

[–]binkerfluid1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

every major city has walmart

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I am not American.

[–]PumpkinFeet1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Rich guys get hotter wives and have better looking kids. 100 generations of this and the rich will be more attractive than the poor.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hm, this makes sense. 100 generations is a lot, though, the US exists only for about a dozen. Also makes sense why this trend does not exist in Russia (it was less than 1.5 generations since the socialism failed).

[–]madcockatielAlpha Bird, Slayer of Cloaca1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

In a whole host of ways, unfortunately(?). There’s good research on it. Proper nutrition, lower stress levels, and physical activity in childhood have a huge impact on one’s “baseline” attractiveness, not even getting into cosmetic treatments that are available later in life.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why poor children have less physical activity? Aren't they the ones with limited access to video games?

[–]vosidit98 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

Attractive people get better starting pay to begin with.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Well, this is something I can think of, but I saw pretty cashiers, so...

[–]vosidit98 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

Did the pretty cashiers earn less than ugly cashiers with similar seniority?

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Did the pretty cashiers earn less than ugly cashiers with similar seniority?

I doubt that, but hardly that still could be considered non-poor.

Also, I dunno why you bring single moms here. They are not all poor.

[–]vosidit98 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

The idea is that pretty people earn more pay as a rupe of thumb.

Of course pretty women can be cashiers if they have no experience or notable skills. Looks can't cover for a lack of skills.

But attractiveness is an advantage in getting hired for the se position.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I know that attractiveness boosts income. Cashiers still are poor, though.

I just was surprised that difference is that drastical in America. However, maybe Walmart exists only in some kind of rural/small town crap areas? I dunno.

[–]reluctantly_red10 points11 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Poor equals hard life equals less attractive.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Hm, I see attractive women in cheap grocery stores all the time.

[–]reluctantly_red5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's not an absolute rule.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I mean, for young people attractiveness mostly is genetics, diet, hygiene and for women it's also makeup.

By 30s poor women, mostly will look significantly older due to lack of skin care, etc. Men won't be able to afford gym, but aside from that... I dunno.

[–]reluctantly_red5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Go to a Nordstrom's and then go to a Walmart. The difference will be obvious.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, I am thinking if this is US trend. I mean, in Moscow in expensive stores there are almost no old people and we know that old people are fatter and less attractive. But it's not what "walmart couples" term is based on.

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lots of old people in American upscale stores. Old people have way more money than young people here.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, things are different in America. But by old I mean old enough to be retired.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Walmart couples

Don’t know why, but that term is hilarious.

[–]PMmeYourHopes-Dreams6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

And delusional thinking makes them even less attractive. I wish more women knew how unattractive delusional thinking is to men.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol I think most of trp is men who can't recognize delusional bitches

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

i’m delusional in the way i have a lack of long term realistic goals, most of those type of women just want to rely on looks forever without taking care of themselves. seriously hot girls with bad habits don’t stay that way for long

[–]Manhater6660 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

women dont and shouldnt keep their hypergamy in check, pretty please. women, especially the hot attractive ones, should do what they want as long as it serves them. bye.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

based and pinkpilled

[–]mareenahBlue Pill-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ha, like really ugly women get laid at all

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I cannot speak to the ugly girl's experience but I had plain gal pals who felt this way and were depressed about it. All of them ended up married though.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I agree. Ugly girls are basically invisible to society and it's a very polar message because there's no clear cutoff or anything, some girls just get completely ignored. The concept that female incels do not exist is laughable but blackpill is convinced it's true.

[–]SevenDrunkMidgetsA darker shade of purple36 points37 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

SMV of an ugly girl>>>>SMV of an average guy

[–]TrumpCardStrategy17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And then it’s completely flipped when it comes to RMV

[–]Ladyofblades7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sad because they each want what the other has.

[–]AverageToHotPink Pill Woman | Female Dating Strategy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ugly girls don't give a fuck if they have a higher SMV than an "average man." It just means that they can be used for sex, but no man, not even their looksmatch, will commit to them. Men really think that women care about how fuckable they are lmao women want relationships!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed.

[–]2bitgun4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah I still see ugly girls that still fill their social media accounts with humble brag posts about all the sex they have.

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Like being a normal man?

I do think it is worse for women as men can increase RMV easier.

[–]firewatchersdaughter2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ugly girls are treated like men.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well... it depends. I know a girl who is pretty untouchable, but because she has a good personality and is friendly she has a ton of friends, most of them guys.

The men in her life are always there for her and help her when she needs it and are genuinely good to her. At the same time, I can tell she is in love with one of them and I’m sure it breaks her heart knowing there is little future with him.

So I wouldn’t say ugly people are invisible, even though it’s been true in my personal experiences (even thought I’m pretty now)... it’s really that I’m boring and that boring / shy people are invisible, unless they are attractive. Because being good looking is interesting.

[–]s86ahmed5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. People tend to underestimate how much being bubbly and charismatic helps even average looking girls and guys. A girl could go from a 6 to an 8 if she's really charming. Heck while shy attractive girls get into relationships they still tend to struggle more compared to bubbly girls of equal attractiveness.

[–]theambivalentroosterLiteral Chad11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

And older women too.

[–]Cho_AssmilkArrogant RP S.O.B.-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Have some drinks with an older attractive woman and start casually bringing up the shit we talk about here if you wanna hear some real RP truths. It's like talking with atlas except she's less like like Rian Stone from MRP/TRP

That and older women absolutely love me. I postulate it's because they have watch men age and they know my looks will hold true.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

nigger did you just compare me to that fucking illiterate moron. imma block your ass

[–]Cho_AssmilkArrogant RP S.O.B.2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

😂😂😂

[–]SupremeMystique28 points29 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Boo hoo. A short guy is an invisible guy.

[–]throwaway_cuz_anon12 points13 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Simply put, whataboutism refers to the bringing up of one issue in order to distract from the discussion of another.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man20 points21 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It's the same issue, people being ignored. Accusations of whataboutism are just a lame attempt to sidestep hypocrisy and double standards.

[–]throwaway_cuz_anon-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What exactly was your point in belittling op then?

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not the same person you initially responded to.

But the point seems to be it isn't gender based.

[–]SkylineCrash-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay but the main post wasn't about manlets

[–]SupremeMystique5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If a short guy made a post like this, he would've been downvoted to oblivion and called incel a million times. For some reason, unattractive women have a free pass to do it.

My point is relevant because of the double standards here.

[–]SupremeMystique3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh stop please. If a short guy made a post like this, he would've been downvoted to oblivion and called incel a million times. For some reason, unattractive women have a free pass to do it.

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[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

She ain't no houellebecq girl

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

heh

[–]Robert_de_Saint_Loup[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You should be top response

[–]Christian_Kong80% Natural Red6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I typically think younger women(<25) are in one of three categories. They are either cute, cute if they lost weight, or morbidly obese. There are ones I see as ugly, but they are less than a %1 of women. They are very visible since they are so rare(just like other human rarities,) and can likely find themselves with a bottom tier guy if they run in the same circles.

[–]geyges🐇2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

There's a category of chubsters with intentionally bad hair, and bad choice of clothing. And I'm not referring to the lesbians here.

I agree that young, skinny, but ugly girls are very unusual. Like you'd have to have some facial deformity covered with acne and odd discolorations, but even then, if your body is fuckable you probably won't be alone.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The term you’re looking for is “butter-face”. There are a decent amount of butter-faces because of the newest trend of women trying to have proportions like Kim K (at least in the West). They’ve got unremarkable or below average faces, but absolutely incredible bodies. For a lot of men, this is enough.

[–]Christian_Kong80% Natural Red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a category of chubsters with intentionally bad hair, and bad choice of clothing.

Even here they typically have big boobs, which unintentionally will get my attention. Then I will usually think, "If she lost some weight and dolled up a bit, she would be a babe." Again, this does not count for the morbidly obese, since their faces often are so big it makes it hard to imagine what they would look like once thinner.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

But what about the girls with unfortunate facial features or face hair or male pattern baldness?

[–]Christian_Kong80% Natural Red4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They make up less than a %1 of girls. They stand out more than average to fat girls since, despite not being sexually attractive, look very unique.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew19 points20 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

commence all the men explaining the female experience

[–]czerdec3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There's no female experience. There's 3500000000 individual female experiences that vary significantly. Same for male experiences.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lol

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is two groups of people in particular: weird loser dudes who think plain women are getting free shit and cars and houses just for existing or good looking douche types who assume everybody has their same level of woo doucheness going on.

[–]itiswr1ttenEndorsed Negotiable Instrument1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

More like commence loser men saying "but what about short/Indian/not Chad blah blah blah".

The sad fact is ugly women can do very little, close to nothing to fix that - and it's an enormous part of their SMV. Dudes should be happy there are a bunch of ways for them to be high SMV.

That's what TRP is all about. Choir preach I know

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie3 points4 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Rather be an ugly invisible girl than a murdered hot one.

[–]geyges🐇12 points13 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Dumpsters in my local town are filled to the brim with corpses of attractive females. Waste management can't keep up with all the dead basic girls.

What do you mean murdered? Who murders hot girls?

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They’re on their high horse right now because that E-girl was beheaded or whatever.

[–]geyges🐇2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fine I'm too old for this shit. Back in my day e-girls were virtual strippers dancing on your desktop, not 17yo girl child with 100000 guys trying to bang her.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]geyges🐇14 points15 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yep anytime a white attractive female gets murdered or goes missing it becomes national news. Precisely because its so rare.

Anyone else gets murdered ...crickets...

[–]storytellermich4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This wouldn't have gotten the attention it did if he didn't post the aftermath on social media.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey you asked, I agree whole heartedly that missing white women are over represented.

[–]banananutbranmuffin4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup, same thing with suicide as well. It's only publicized heavily when it was a pretty 17 year old cheerleader type even though it is almost entirely middle age men who do it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Like that Family Guy bit

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

woah

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just with the sad news today I felt it had to be said.

[–]czerdec0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Me too. Probably most people. Being ugly beats rotting.

[–]rubrix0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m currently reading the same book!

[–]geyges🐇-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

seductive freshness of adolescence

Go on....

I mean eww, gross.

[–]DuckingAroundYTPurple Pill Man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Even ugly girls have hella dudes in their dms and making passes at them lol I don’t understand how this is remotely true.

[–]iceicle9992 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh look, another PPD pity party. The same users circlejerking in this thread are the same ones who dial up the intensity and start getting all critical when it comes to disaffected boys/men and their place in society. They don't want to admit for the life of them that their worldviews are incorrect and that just because you were born with a dick doesn't mean everything will be easy.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Created an account solely for this post. Hope I don't get down-voted to the depths of Hell.

Perhaps I'm being biased, considering I'm what's known to be unattractive, but I'd certainly say this is the case.

But — and excuse the philosophical-esque bull — what is attractive? To me, it's things that fit within the standards society has created, and this is evidenced by the trends throughout history which are influenced either by celebrities, movements, etc.

If you don't fit these trends, then you may as well be labelled unattractive. Now, I don't inherently think I am unattractive. I've nice eyes, an average build, and decent facial features.

Despite this, I was called ugly throughout my primary and secondary years at school.

I don't have big breasts, a big ass, long hair, big lips, etc. We're currently in the Kardashian era — if you're not "slim thicc" then you're essentially unattractive. At least, that's the case for women.

Now, this is just the general consensus, of course.

I'm referring to evolution when I say this: Attractive girls get most attention and resources as males are essentially competing for their attention, etc. Now, okay, I get it — we're not apes. But it's driven into our subconscious minds — we're hardwired for this. It goes either way, too, i.e. females competing for males for their attention, resources, etc.

Quite frankly, I would've been banging in the 60's.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, this has always been the case. I came up during the era of the Amazonian supermodel - Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, et al. I was like, "Cool," because I'm a blonde blue-eyed Pole with a nice rack, but the minute I got to college, the glamazons were out and Kate Moss heroin chic was in and I was SOL.

Now curves are back, but not the curves I've got. Doesn't matter; I'm old now.

But you (universal you, not you personally) don't need "men" to like your body; you need one man, that you like, to like your body.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But you (universal you, not you personally) don't need "men" to like your body; you need one man, that you like, to like your body.

Damn straight! Cheers for the reply.

[–]BlackPillTruthBomb2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Being invisible is actually really enjoyable. I'm an INTJ and I hate being bothered. I don't thrive on attention from anyone and everyone, in fact it makes me want to avoid people.

It's when people treat you as less than because you are not pretty. However I don't think I would like it if I was valued in my social interactions just for my looks, either. I wish people were more interesting than just thinking about sex all the time. It seems like women are just far more sexualized than men whether we are ugly or not.

[–]pngmafia97my type is chadcucks4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

True and I have no problem with it

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Lmao I wish ugly girls would be invisible. Unfortunately they tend to be loud, obnoxious, and take up a lot of space.

[–]pngmafia97my type is chadcucks28 points29 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I think pretty girls are loud and obnoxious too you just don’t mind it because they’re pretty.

[–]Maybelowsmvman-repellant7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

ye

[–]AverageToHotPink Pill Woman | Female Dating Strategy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Trash human being

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

No shit

[–]pngmafia97my type is chadcucks2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

So any girl can be loud and obnoxious. We're talking invisible from their POV not yours. Ugly girls do not receive male attention, positive or negative. They can still be annoying pieces of shit but that has nothing to do with their looks as we just agreed.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

My point was I wished that ugly girls wouldnt be so loud and obnoxious, and actually could be ignored easily.

[–]pnadlerlaw6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not all fat ugly girls are raging 😤 feminists, some of them are happy and relaxed Walmart shoppers wearing red MAGA hats and asking to please speak with the manager.

[–]AverageToHot 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow, you're trash.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No u

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey man if you're not getting attention just standing there you gotta get it with your behaviour

[–]we-are-men-with-ven5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure, maybe?

I was over weight in high school and I was treated like I was invisible at best, jeered at at worse. It was really hard because whilst I had a really tight group of female friends, their male friends in our larger social circle wouldn't even hold a conversation with me.

However, high school behaviour isn't really a good reflection of the adult world.

I would probably ask r/truefemcels for their input.

[–]p3n3lop3Black Pill& Waiting on the Singularity5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

However, high school behaviour isn't really a good reflection of the adult world.

oohhhh yes it is lol

[–]c1oudwa1ker-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

How so?

[–]we-are-men-with-ven-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you have this perspective then you need to grow up - literally.

[–]throwinoutex-Red Pill, now Purple Man5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

An ugly still has plenty of opportunities to get laid and attention from guys, usually more attractive than herself because of the tilted dating market.

They're invisible to alpha men maybe, for most of the time. But even alpha men go dumpster diving once in a while.

[–]pnadlerlaw9 points10 points  (40 children) | Copy Link

Outside of dating, this isn’t true at all.

Respectfully, I know a lot of “unattractive” overweight female attorneys and judges. That’s absolutely not at all a reflection of who they are as lawyers and judges. These are genuinely brilliant women, generally not angry, who love what they do and are very good at what they do.

These women are not invisible at all. In terms of men want to “date” them, yes, they’re invisible in that very narrow and limited sense. But in every other sense, they’re in no way “worthless” or invisible.

Quite the contrary. If a “beautiful” female lawyer or judge is in the courtroom, it’s not that people are “distracted by” her beauty. But people assume, “Come on, what is Barbie going to tell us? How much intelligence can we really expect from that kind of privilege? She doesn’t have the same need or motivation to hit the books as other women. So maybe she’s minimally smart enough to pass the bar, but I’m definitely not shaking in my boots by anything remarkable or profound she’s about to say.”

And that’s between men. Between women, there’s jealousy. Fat ugly women do much better advancing in their professional careers when compared to beautiful women. Outside of dating, beautiful women have it pretty rough.

As far as dating is concerned, fat ugly women are also no invisible to men. Men notice fat ugly women, the way you would notice a Geiger meter going off in Chernobyl as you moved closer to the elephant’s foot. You generally just want to stay away, not have them talk to you, end conversations kind of quickly, and walk away as politely and quickly as possible.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew17 points18 points  (31 children) | Copy Link

you think anything but sexual and romantic visibility is being contemplated here?

[–]pnadlerlaw2 points3 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

Idk what’s being contemplated. You never know with women who have issues with men. It can spill over into everything else. But I’m just saying, fat ugly women are not invisible, outside of dating.

Within dating, they’re still not invisible, it’s just that men generally notice them and consciously try to avoid them.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew6 points7 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

its a subjective feeling of sexual invisibility. thats what houllebecq was writing about

[–]pnadlerlaw0 points1 point  (21 children) | Copy Link

Well, there are men who find overweight women attractive. One man’s garbage is another man’s treasure. Is the goal to feel loved and appreciated by “someone,” or by “everyone”?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew7 points8 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

theres no goal. a woman who doesnt get attention is functionally dead to herself

[–]pnadlerlaw3 points4 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Well, that’s no healthier than incels. Sometimes, in the game of life, the dice roll a certain way. You can’t just quit the game because you didn’t start off with a good hand. There is more to life than the opposite sex, sex, dating, etc.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew5 points6 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

incels have weird female psychology. what im describing is normal female psychology. its literally female sexuality

i mean, those are nice mouthwords youre typing, but im talking about reality

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

weird female psychology. what im describing is normal female psychology. its literally female sexuality

It's leaking. And not just to incels. Male plastic surgery is up a whopping 333% since 1996. Eating disorders in men are on the rise. Etc.

While I think you're right overall, the "give me attention or give me death" perspective is definitely increasingly spilling over to men, maybe as a function of our attention economy. I dunno.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

i think whats killing everyone is the sudden overnight reliance on looking good in PHOTOGRAPHS rather than in person

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's surprising considering how obese people are.

[–]skystar860 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They're copying the Kardashians.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

What makes you think you understand normal female psych lol? Your post history shows you're anything but lol

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew8 points9 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

right we can ONLY understand things we personally are. no other understanding is possible. at all.

[–]PMmeYourHopes-Dreams5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I used to work with a very obese, unattractive woman with a horrible personality and she was able to land a husband. You would think she would be invisible but there is always someone out there desperate enough.

[–]pnadlerlaw6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It’s not necessarily desperation. There are some guys who are genuinely attracted to overweight women.

[–]PMmeYourHopes-Dreams2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Right. And he just happened to be an overweight neckbeard with few opportunities.

[–]pnadlerlaw3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, if that’s the case, then I agree with you.

[–]PMmeYourHopes-Dreams2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, you are right though, there is a small percentage of men that have that as a preference, they are out there. I just can't tell when a man actually prefers it or if he settled.

[–]pnadlerlaw2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, I haven’t seen any Chris Evans types with Amy Schumer types. So, idk to what extend it may really be a “preference.”

[–]Maybelowsmvman-repellant1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

true love man, dont hate

[–]pngmafia97my type is chadcucks9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I’ve always wondered what degree of attraction is optimal for a woman’s career.

It’s true - studies have shown what you describe - beautiful women are often viewed as less trustworthy in high level corporate situations because they look they should be the receptionist instead. This seems to be less true, but still somewhat applicable, to extremely handsome men in the workplace.

At the same time, being downright ugly is probably a detriment to your career as well. If you are literally hard to look at you simply don’t appeal to other people’s primal attraction to you as a human, not necessarily for sex or anything romantic. Being deformed is not career positive.

So there’s probably an optimal amount of attraction to do the most in a serious career. For me, I know there are certain work outfits I cannot wear for fear of looking like a corporate-themed porno or a distracting receptionist. Minimal no-makeup makeup is best. I find it helpful that I am Asian because I can still be attractive without automatic “Barbie” categorization given the cultural stereotype of being very academic.

I think being decently attractive but not too gorgeous that people question your career (like somewhere between a 6.5 and 8.5) is probably ideal.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well groomed, healthy looking, kinda symmetrical features. Basically be pleasant to look at but not too eye catching.

[–]reluctantly_red5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Please. No one is ever going to confuse a junior partner with a receptionist.

[–]chaddad90003 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I work in marketing so its often the situation where attractive women hire each other in sorta a sorority situation, or maybe its just a career which attracts the attractive. There's deffo a certain style where the women dress very feminine, but not really sexualized, maybe a sort of 'alpha female' type thing.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yup, people (and I include myself in that category) can't help thinking that a beautiful career woman got where she is because of men favoring her and she's secretly dumb. "She could be taken care of by a rich man! Why would she go through all that schooling and hard work?".

On the other hand, you see an unattractive career woman and think "she's good at her job!".

[–]pnadlerlaw2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m not implying she got favoritism. That’s your statement, not mine.

All I’m saying is, 💎 is just coal under a lot of pressure. She never really had to handle a lot of pressure. She did once she chose to be a doctor or lawyer. But, she didn’t “have to.” Whereas other women, they had no choice. They spent their whole lives under pressure. They had no such privilege. They had to hit the books, not out of luxury, but out of necessity.

[–]oneprettycoolcat2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Bullshit. These women are invisible to the top guys, which are the only guys they want. They are not st all invisible to men as s population.

[–]pnadlerlaw-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The “the top guys” lol, I mean, fucking obviously

[–]storytellermich3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not quite. We're not invisible, we just get more negative attention. The mask comes off quicker and we see who people really are really quick.

[–]dharmabird671 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Being ugly and female is a good asshole filter, that's true. The ones who stick around are decent, unless they are trying to scam you out of money or a green card.

[–]z4ck-z3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wholeheartedly agree. Two things I want to say on this that have been on my mind.

  1. this is most of what I completely fail to fathom about the transgender stuff. Like some of them if they have the right body type or whatever they're going to look pretty but plenty of them just look like ugly, ugly girls which I guess if that's really how you feel on the inside that's fine, but all of my experience in society has shown me that ugly women are completely invisible, it's like a social death wish to become one, which leads to my second point

  2. Incels have no idea how bad they could actually have it. I guess maybe without testosterone ugly women don't necessarily have the same sex drive or sexual frustration that those guys have, but incels still aren't invisible the way an ugly woman is. I mean honestly think of how sexist our society is as well like you may not be getting laid but you still have a viable career and societal value, where as an ugly woman is still just viewed as ultimately a failure in every regard, even a successful career is easily discounted.... and that's changed a little bit from the old Spinster thing but that's still a very real pressure that they have on them that incels don't.

[–]CamoWoobie10000Women are SHIT5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

10% of women are ugly enough to be invisible, and thats a high estimate.

50+% of men are invisible and thats a low estimate.

The most invisible woman is more visible than probably 25+% of men.

[–]whatdidshewrite1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s funny you mention this. I recently started a part time job with a supervisor that I’m pretty in to even though I don’t consider her attractive.

Actually I’ve only really been attracted to about 3 women in my life so far - none of them on a physical level though.

[–]_Anarchon_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've known women that weren't necessarily classic beauties, but figured out how to make up for it other areas, and still remain attractive because of that...even sexy.

I think there's a difference between being pretty and beautiful...beauty entailing doing the best with what you have and having the right attitude. I'm really not all that attracted to pretty. I'm attracted to beauty.

[–]DopeMeme_Deficiency1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I love a woman with a meh face as long as she has a nice body

[–]Aeiexgjhyoun_IIIPurple Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why should anyone give you attention just because you exist? Pretty people get A ttenttion and admiration from others because they are pretty. The rest have to work for it. Ugly thinking they should get men to pay A ttenttion to them just by existing is the epitome of entitlement.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a relief to get older and not be subject to male sexual attention all the time. It's actually not bad being treated like "one of the guys."

[–]fuzzy_bunnyx1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Water is wet and the air is breathable. It's not limited by gender either. Ugly people have it far worse in general. The opposite of love is apathy after all.

I guess the only difference is in the perception of beauty over time between the genders.

[–]Planetof121 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ugly girls are fairly invisible, but not too much. Anyway, it's just like being a man. Most men are entirely invisible to women. So, deal with it, the world owes you nothing. Stop being a female incel. Ugly females should stop complaining.

[–]RedslifToxic Male1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely.

I would never go after an ugly girl even if she was a billionaire. That being said, i'd probably consider only about 15-20% of the women to be absolutely ugly.

[–]TPastore10ViniciusGBlue Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol no

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've been overweight most of my whole life. I feel pretty invisible. It's sort of like a weird limbo. I don't get treated like other girls, but I'm not treated like a man.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i’ve spent most of my life as an ugly and invisible girl, it’s only been since last year that i’ve decides to work on myself. the way i’ve been treated has changed a bit, i get more men smiling at me, speaking to me nicely, people complimenting me on my fashion choices. The halo effect is 100% real.

[–]girls-support-girls1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Speaking as an ugly girl this is 100% accurate. Though sometimes men notice you online that's the full extent of it though

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill Man3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Enthusiasticly dtf girl is never invisible

[–]Scarsallovermybody3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, they're not.

When girls complain about how they are lonely and ''invisible'', that means in reality she is invisible to a high tier alpha while ignoring all the betas, gammas and omegas giving her attention.

Female incels don't exist. However, female Emcels do exist.

[–]Bayard204 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I like Houllebecq, but he's a little too given to hyperbole for my tastes. Certainly, an ugly girl is not going to be as privileged as one who is "exceptionally beautiful" - I mean, yeah, no shit - but to say they're invisible? No.

Ever heard the old saying "everyone has a use, even if it's only as fertilizer"? Well, every woman has a use, even if it's just as a wet hole or broodmare.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

People who are just sub par, and dont put in the effort to change that, tend to live a life of malaise.

[–]praisethesun799Not actually a fag 😉0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. Not everyone can be beautiful, but they can strive to look the best they can, or strive for excellence in other things , which ends up attracting people , like looks do.

[–]couldbemage1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not true for young women. Possibly true with attractive men but not men overall. For example, I personally know more than one obese twenty something that has several dudes spending money on them. Young and female is all it takes.

[–]Autistic_ReeeeeeeeeeRed Pill Man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They are invisible to the men they want.

This is the difference.

Ugly men are invisible to all or most women.

There are plenty of ugly men that will settle for ugly women without hesitation but these women are not interested in them for the same reason the men they are attracted to are not interested in them.

[–]czerdec2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A girl who's invisible is just experiencing the equality she's probably demanded since she was bitten by somebody infected with feminism. 85% of guys are invisible too and they deal.

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Eh, it depends on the girl. I know some women who are not conventionally attractive but have the charisma to fill up a room just by walking into it. I also know some plain Jane types that are sweet but mousy and go through life mostly unnoticed.

[–]HonestyOverCivility1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Anyone will be invisible when they lack whatever is valued in their respective gender

[–]thatnomadsucks1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Somewhat true, but I've seen ugly girls get a ton of attention because they aren't shy about asking for it. And, I've seen a lot of really attractive women get zero attention because of the attitudes they have from all of the special treatment they receive.

[–]IntoxicatedWeasel 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

I believe this to be true. I think for men it it is different however. They face ridicule and trash talk for being “subpar” in terms of physical attraction. Women go unnoticed, men get noticed and get destroyed for it.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You need to be really ugly and introverted on top of that.

If a woman is below average in looks by default (like, say, a 3) and just somewhat social and outgoing (like "average for a girl"), she'll get guys being interested in her.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t believe that there are invisible women. It’s incredible how often I find out that a completely unattractive woman is married. Men’s taste either vary that much or men are that thirsty. On the other hand, I’ve known several men who seem to be invisible.

[–]KerPop42Neo was trans0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seductive freshness of adolescence?

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

appears somehow unreal

Especially to body positives negatives.

[–]banananutbranmuffin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No she isn't invisible, especially if she is still of child bearing years then she definitely is not invisible.

[–]Bntt890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So can I just ask to understand, does it matter? Is attention that necessary or is it just that most men dont desire you? Is it that bad? Also which men in particular, you are talking about the most preferable men right? If so of course you would be but I dont believe you are invisible to everyone.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

In real life, yeah. Online, absolutely not.

[–]goldmedalflower0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

People do not jeer at her, they are not cruel to her,

I'm glad this point was acknowledged. That fat guy at work or school is teased mercilessly, yet everyone says very little to the fat girl by comparison because, you know, that would be cruel.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You can’t be serious. I actually think fat women are bullied more by boys in school. That was what I saw at least. My best friend was called “Big Bird” for 8 years of high school by the jocks because she’s 6ft.

[–]dharmabird672 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wasn't fat in school but I was ugly and awkward and it was always boys who bullied me, not girls. Girls just mostly left me out of their cliques so I was mostly alone until 11th grade when I found some nerdy creative girls to hang out with.

[–]maljo240 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Plain women have personalities that glow. Very visible. Delightful.

[–]piratelostboi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely true.

[–]The-Wizard-of-Oz-0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know, very sad. However, I have seen a few (few.) exceptions till now, and the substitute is tons of charm.

[–]praisethesun799Not actually a fag 😉0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well yeah of course she's "invisible ", she's ugly It's so utterly obvious that I'm not sure what there is to discuss there lol . I mean , attractiveness is literally how you appear to others . Although Houellebeqc is hilariously dramatic in his writing, for such a blasé individual lol it's probably a French thing

[–]mandoa_sky0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

halo effect.

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Takes some to be an ugly girl these days though. I maintain that a slim girl has to have facial or dental deformities, abnormal (unaddressed) hair growth, out of control acne/skin disorder, or visibly bad hygiene, to be considered ugly. I rarely see slim or normal weight girls that I consider unattractive really. Can women here say the same about men? Most overweight girls aren’t really ugly either, they’re just often less attractive. Obesity is another matter as it frequently probably registers to our minds as deformity.

[–]hullcrush0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

An ugly man is an invisible man, except for bullets. Bullets find him quite easily.

[–]SeemedGood0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only a vanishingly small percentage of women are actually invisible. “Ugly” girls are invisible to the 20% of men who are visible to them.

[–]vezokpiraka0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's the same with guys. Nobody really cares at looks at you unless you're really cool and even then it's not even comparable to a good looking girl.

[–]UncommercializedSaw0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

An ‘ugly girl’ can choose to be height/weight appropriate, display beauty in her surroundings, cook and maintain a household well.

I’d rather have a 7 who will help with the workload, than a 10 that you have to focus on how you’re going to be kept.

[–]Sylvi20211 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I know I’m way late to this but a 7 is not ugly. A 3-4 is ugly. A 7 is still statistically above average.

[–]PumpkinFeet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the gist of this is that a women's SMV is much more dependant on their looks than a guys is.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It must suck to be born female and define yourself based on how much attention you get. I was backpacking in the roan mountains highlands 4 days ago. No other human beings around, just the odd deer and birds, i could hear and feel nature in its sheer immensity and intuitively grasp my place in the cosmos. I was thinking “why cant it always be like this, I wish a virus would wipe all the other human beings out.” I guess women are too dependent on other people to appreciate the freedom of not only being self sufficient, but wanting everyone else to die.

[–]begonefoulsoftdrink0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It seems pretty correct to me, but do not forgot that beauty is personal and people may or may not find somebody beautiful or not

[–]zetaconvex0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Generally speaking, women have it easier than men in that department. The attractiveness of men is very much a crowded trade, with the vast majority of women only wanting the same small proportion of men. All the others are invisible. The desirability of women is much more spread out.

[–]khaste0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

True but they still have more dating options than ugly men

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

ugly girls obviously get less attention than pretty girls. and they definitely get less attention from the high-value guys that they want.

but even ugly girls have guys orbiting them, guys crushing on them and catching oneitis for them. but the guys that are paying attention to them are generally also ugly/low-value. at best, ugly girls ignore this attention from the "wrong" guys, at worst it actually pisses them off and makes their insecurities worse because it reminds them of their own low value.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

one of the best books ever

[–]EGOtyst-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not if she deep throats your beer bottle.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So are ugly men.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As long as they don't "Eye Rape" me. Creepy women should be sent t o prison.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

customary seductive freshness of adolescence

*roll credits*

When I was a teenage girl I would sometimes find myself feeling sorry for girls with obvious defects/deformities thinking that life will be hard for them because they're so ugly they can't make themselves pleasant to look at with makeup on or other cosmetics. I never said it out loud because I'm not an asshole and in those moments I always felt bad for thinking that. But you know what? Most of them do okay in life if they accept it and work on themselves and most women look ugly to men past a certain age. We'll all be hags one day.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

disagree with the hag thing, hot older women are treated well because they’re much rarer than being a young and hot woman

[–]Manck0-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A beautiful girl is recognizable to a beautiful man. It's that simple. Don't let anyone else tell you what is beautiful.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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