TheRedArchive

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It seems that some ideas are based on the idea that women's self worth and value is based on what kind of man they are with and especially on the idea that women consider their men as trophies. I thought about it when I heard a woman boasting about finally getting a tall guy with abs and she really seemed to think that someone would care.

Also the idea of negging seems pointless. If someone shows lessened interest or interest to date others then usually people withdraw and let others do as they please. Negging would only work on people whose self worth would suffer and who have a need to "show" others and "win" in relationships.


[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled27 points28 points  (56 children) | Copy Link

Unless a majority of women are having casual sex with short "nice guys" who are out of shape, I'm not really sure you have much of an angle here.

TRP is discussing women's casual sex preferences.

I have the seminal AF\BB post on this, you can see it in my post history and it is pinned. You can start there if you actually believe your OP. Instead I believe your OP is actually "women who have frequent casual sex have low self esteem and\or mental problems."

[–]BlindingTwilight 1 points [recovered]  (23 children) | Copy Link

More like: “women who have frequent casual sex are women”. I don’t like the idea that they have low self esteem or mental problems, that is imposing a tradcon morality on humans. Tradcons do not have a superior claim to morality than anyone else. Humans are animals

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled6 points7 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

That's all fine and dandy if you want to live in a third world nation. Morality and productivity go hand in hand.

[–]BlindingTwilight 1 points [recovered]  (13 children) | Copy Link

Spoken like a true consumer. Who’s morality? The Chinese government seems to ensure their population are quite productive. Ancient Egyptian workers were productive. What morality are you preaching? I should warn you that I loathe moral relativism and I am smarter and more worldly than you so be very careful with your response.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

You do realize that the Chinese have literally systemized morality, right?

Not sure if you're trolling, but if you aren't, maybe we agree. Authoritarianism is the only way to reconcile hypergamy and keep a population productive long term IMO.

[–]BlindingTwilight 1 points [recovered]  (10 children) | Copy Link

I am not troll. I am familiar with your writings, you are a smart guy but even very bright introspective people get things wrong. I am a spiritual person. I don’t believe in authoritarianism or any other “isms”. I think humanity needs to take a hard look at itself and maybe chose to stop acting like animals.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

maybe chose to stop acting like animals.

Yes, the way we accomplish this is through assigning meaning to life and imposing "limits"\rules that we could call morality.

e.g. Get married, have kids and be a good worker bee.

What I was getting at, is I have no idea what they're going to cook up that aligns with the naked hardware underneath. I mean we could nationalize child care expenses?

[–]BlindingTwilight 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

I favour a technological intervention. Humans can’t be trusted. I think the Chinese social credit system is potentially a huge leap forward but the flip side is you could use the same technology to enslave billions of people. Humans suck

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Well yeah, like I mentioned. This is systemized authoritarian morality.

[–]BlindingTwilight 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

I would be happy to see similar systems rolled out globally but it should be a choice. No one should be forced to participate. So whilst I like the protections it offers, I fear the consequences. I don’t think there is a cure for what ails humanity, short of an evolutionary leap forward, transhumanism or extinction.

[–]greenlittleman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Animal while acting like typical animal of its species once said "our species of animals should stop acting like animals". And now you say you aren't troll..

[–]greenlittleman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really, in third world nations people are more religious and moral. Traditional marriage is much more common in third world countries, in some of them it is also forced by law. All developed countries have some sort of sexual freedom.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Morality and productivity go hand in hand.

I'm not sure about this claim. It seems productivity is more closely related to economic freedom than to morality

[–]backstable 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

"Women are women" is such a useless statement. Yeah no shit, but this doesn't say anything about women's self-esteem. What if low self- esteem is present among most women?

I don’t like the idea that they have low self esteem or mental problems, that is imposing a tradcon morality on humans. Tradcons do not have a superior claim to morality than anyone else. Humans are animals

If most human societies in history had a system to control women's sexuality, then maybe that's the case for a reason. Maybe it's because women having lots of random sex is actually detrimental for women, men, and society as a whole. Women are unhappier now than in the 1950s, despite gaining extreme power.

Humans are animals, you got that right. The biological purpose of sex is to procreate, women's menstrual cycles are literally about procreation. Having tons of sex without procreating is going against a woman's nature, which increases the chances for low-esteem and/or mental problems.

When a culture discourages women from living according to their nature, shit goes to hell. What you call "tradcon morality" is literally the foundation of civilization. The US is the strongest country in the world, and without "tradcon morality" there is 0 chance it would have got there. Going against it may well lead to collapse, time will tell.

[–]bluehorserunning0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Having a ton of sex without procreating goes against men's natures just as much.

[–]BlindingTwilight 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your view of humanity and the world is tiny. You should learn to meditate

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think that casual sex is limited by moral only, some people just don't like it.

[–]Captain_Raamsley-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Incorrect

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Plenty of women have casual sex that aren’t into TRP guys. TRP works on dumb club girls. You go bang a sexy ass law student graduating at the top or her class, or the chick working two jobs and still staying in shape. People who are busy and who actually have direction in their lives don’t have time for bull shit. And those chicks are on tinder. And they go out to bars sometimes. And they hook up with people. You just don’t realize they exist because your obnoxious wannabe frat-douche behavior repels them and attracts toxic party girls.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled1 point2 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Arrogance, scent cues to dominance, narcissism etc are positively correlated in studies of female arousal. So it's a majority preference.

Nothing is universal. Some men enjoy having their penis mutilated.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Oh look, another “it’s correlated so it must also be caused by it” argument from a TRPer. If you kids would spend less time pretending to be self confident and more time paying attention in class, you’d realize that correlation doesn’t equal causation.

Edit: Cool username though

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

lol I'll stick to what works.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

It doesn’t work nearly as well as you think it does bro. I was a TRP PUA all through college, and there’s nothing I regret more out of my late teens and early twenties than the time I wasted on that shit. Trust me.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

If women don’t like you/you’re struggling with women, you need to go on a journey to discover why. But it isn’t women’s fault. They’re not evil. It is your fault. The good news is that you can change it. Maybe you need to develop more self confidence. Maybe you do need to “man up” more in the sense that you’re a doormat who lets people walk on him. Maybe you get too needy too fast. Maybe you’re trying to bang club girls, but you’re not a club guy. If you’re quiet and introverted, stop trying to date women who are polar opposites of you just because you think that’s how you get respect from people. Start finding cute girls who share your interests....which means be vulnerable and accept that some people will reject you for who you are, and that’s okay.

I understand women perfectly well and offer them what they want and am not interested in playing the blue pill game. I have kids and a family and I'm over that game (being a blue pill twat). There's a reason why TRP is amoral.

You just haven't properly sacked up yet. I can understand where you're at, and well, you can't understand the other side until you do things "right" and it still doesn't work.

Then you have to ask yourself how you want to after that. Like a good boy or if you want to play for keeps. I chose to play for keeps obviously.

There is no "truth" here because it's perceptual. If you believe women deserve to be treated the way you treat them, then that's your truth. And I have mine.

My perception of the flaw in your logic is that in order for women to be deserving of equitable treatment, evolution would need to have an interest in relationship stability, which in my opinion, it does not.

A nearly 50% divorce rate indicates that failure is a feature, not a flaw of relationships. Evolution seeks to increase genetic quality and diversity.

I mean you can do the dancing monkey thing and morally compete within her framework and then blame yourself if it fails, that's fine. But in my opinion, and most men who have large body counts, we've seen the other side of women and aren't interested in offering old books provisioning.

Like I was saying, none of this really matters until you have to confront things at a larger level. Have some problems with kids, a house, business etc. Try to negotiate your issues above the table with a woman etc.

If all that matters is you being masculine, it makes the entire idea of having a monogamous relationship with a woman patently absurd. You promise monogamy and she can't not be hypergamous, it's a sham.

So I promise only one thing, to be masculine and everything else is on my terms.

All I can say is this, I'm treated much better now and don't really care if things were to fail. Because I no longer expect anything out of women except for them to be hypergamous. I no longer form covert contracts.

If she wants to be a single mother, that's her problem.

Just not interested in the game you're selling. And well, some of the OG guys I know, they play the same way and it works. Stakes are higher in a way, but hey, beats being a chump with a wallet.

You do you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

What ridiculous assumptions. Who you think I am is so far off it’s laughable. Im 29. Im in a relationship that I’ve been in for two years. We regularly pick up women from a local karaoke bar we go to for threesomes. My girlfriend is a yoga instructor studying to be interior design, I am a sales manager who spends all of his free time doing and competing in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Sack up? Bro, I’ve done four cage fights. I coach and help train active and former UFC fighters. I manage a group of 14 salesmen who are all whiney, aggressive assholes that blame me every time they go more than a week without a sale. The fuck you say sack up for? What do you think I’m so scared of in a relationship dynamic that I ever get anxiety from dating? The fact that you think how you interact with women is what is telling about your masculinity is interesting because it shows just how much being successful with women matters in your life compared to everything else in your existence.

News flash: just because I’m not punching holes in walls and getting into fights at bars doesn’t mean I’m not masculine. Define masculinity for me. What is it to you? Because to me, changing everything about yourself so that people will like you is approval seeking behavior, which is very much not masculine by nature. Improving yourself and being the best version of yourself is one thing, but pretending to be something you’re not is one of the least masculine things you can possibly do.

You think Brad Pitt intentionally waits an hour to respond to a text? You think Channing Tatum pretends he’s not interested? What “alpha” and “masculinity” are and what you think they are - two different things.

The TRP/PUA shit you’re into - I know more about it than you do. Most likely. I don’t know you, so maybe I’m wrong, but I’d bet my left testicle that if I spoke that sentence to a random person on this forum, I’d be right 99% of the time. I got into PUA when I was 18. A few weeks after graduating, I read The Game. I joined online communities. I pirated every book, video, etc in existence. I approached set after set at a club that no longer exists. I got laid, got rejected, had wild ass nights. For years, I was heavily invoked, to the point where I was a forum moderator and a bootcamp student, with one of the major PUA companies - at the time, it was third largest in the world behind RSD and whatever Neil Strauss called his organization.

I quit that shit because I was unhappy, and because as I got older, I realized more and more that the things it got right, it misunderstood, and the things it got wrong were ruining my life. You absolutely can be a nice guy but still be “alpha”. You can be masculine and still be vulnerable. All that happens when you follow TRP is you alienate yourself and you slowly develop an identity crisis.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Blah blah blah. Again, none of this matters until you have real shit on the line. I'm not talking about cage fighting, obviously.

I'm just saying, right now all you have to lose when a relationship ends is your pride.

Your understanding of women is based on medium term commitments and dispute resolution with little to nothing on the line. And so your chipper view is a luxury that many men lose when they have a divorce or two and realize that there isn't really a way to "win." That AWALT and all that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I definitely understand that the stakes are bigger in marriage - I’m just not with the manosphere that marriages end because women are gold digging whores who want to take everything from you. I disagree with you about what women are attracted to in the first place

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bro you sound pretty RP. Congrats on the yoga instructor!

[–]bluehorserunning0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Evolution has an interest in couples sticking together until the young are fledged, and after that many women decide that a man is more trouble than he's worth and that they'd rather be alone.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

"honeymoon period"

[–]bluehorserunning0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

18 years is a honeymoon?

[–]bluehorserunning0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Narcissism is also correlated to female attractiveness to men. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/per.2040

[–]Female_urinary_mazeWOMEN LIKE SEX.2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Women not commonly hooking up with conventionally unnatractive men doesn't make TRP correct. There's a lot of room between having preferences about appearance and having all of the weirdly specific tendencies postulated by TRP types. Just because she likes abs doesn't meen she'll tolerate "negging" or show you off as a trophy.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Arrogance, scent cues to dominance, narcissism etc are positively correlated in studies of female arousal. So it's a majority preference.

Nothing is universal. Some men enjoy having their penis mutilated.

[–]rhymenisce 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Look, negging is successfully done when the woman never had a clue it was negging. If you think it was negging, he didn’t do it right.

Negging is basically a way to mystify women. Women like that man who has a little mystery about him still.

So if I say “are those contacts? Your eyes look really pretty” - the girls is thinking “wait does he think I’m attractive or not?!?” And makes them want you more.

It’s a subtle thing that unfortunately does work with women. I would love if red pill methods weren’t what women like.

[–]Female_urinary_mazeWOMEN LIKE SEX.0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Outside of the manosphere those are called backhanded compliments, and you can bet your ass that the average woman isn't naive to them. There's nothing sexy or mysterious about a dude radiating catty highschool bitch energy.

[–]rightmeow6 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

Unless a majority of women are having casual sex with short "nice guys" who are out of shape, I'm not really sure you have much of an angle here.

This is not a TRP thing, it’s something every person (both genders) should have figured out by the time they’re 18 at least. Do people just ignore what’s going on around them in middle/high school and college?

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The biggest hangup is usually height and the "nice guy" thing. Most men do not realize these are male values (loyalty, honor etc), and women do not care about this and even harbor active disdain for men who are nurturing. In fact, these things are negatively correlated in studies of female arousal.

That is not something most men know, and many men when informed of this will become hostile and reject.

As far as TRP specific stuff, I would say that TRP needs to exist for AWALT. That is something that takes men a long time to digest.

[–]rightmeow6 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

What were you doing when you had hormones surging through your body ages 12-18? Did you have your head buried in the sand?

It was clear as day to me in 6th grade that attractive people are more desirable to the opposite sex for relationships. Girls would get crushes for the sole reason that a guy was hot.

Like, why did it take an Internet forum for yourself and other TRP men to realize the above phenomenon is what I don’t understand. Just look around. And it’s not exclusive to TRP or even a new idea.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If what you're saying is true then AWALT wouldn't be controversial.

[–]rightmeow6 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

That is not why AWALT is controversial. You think AWALT is controversial because women are physically attracted to attractive people? because that is just common sense.

[–]PrideInIndividualityLiberal Red Piller0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women are sexually attracted to minority of men, which is the fundamental principle of AWALT. If women not being attracted to most men is a common sense high school knowledge, then AWALT shouldn't be controversial.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer14 points15 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

You left one out: Money! A woman who is financially dependent for whatever reason (including being too lazy to work) will be more likely to put up with all kinds of bullshit, as long as it isn't as painful as actually supporting herself.

I saw this firsthand when I was a child. I'm amazed at what my mother tolerated in order to avoid returning to the poverty in which she'd grown up!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I mean, this is definitely true, but what does this have to do with this post?

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

RedPill tactics like 'dread game' will work on a woman who has to hold on to her meal ticket at all costs.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Well now you made me go read a Roosh post and I feel all gross.

Okay, so you're saying "dread game" will only work on women who are poor, if the guy has money. Yeah I can see that.

What I don't see is why a guy would want to play the "dread" game, I don't buy that women want to be anxious all the time. Sounds unpleasant. Just like he's saying "break up with a woman that's constantly trying to make you feel anxious with pregnancy scares" which I totally agree with, women should dump a guy who makes you feel anxious all the time... doubly so if it's on purpose.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Well, sure. It's much easier to do if you can support yourself in the style to which you've become accustomed. A SAHM with several small children may not have that luxury, though, and may be forced to put out to hang on to her meal ticket.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Totally (I am such a woman myself), but aren't these all sort of early dating tactics?

And, that a woman will put up with more and stay because of money, doesn't mean that this makes her more likely to stay because she likes being anxious, but in spite of the abuse.

Rather, as you say your mother put up with a lot because she didn't want to be poor, but Roosh is saying that she actually enjoyed it when your father(?) threatened to leave and this made her more likely to stay. This seems like a fundamental attribution error here. It was the money making her stay, not the threats to leave.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. She openly hated my father, and tried to pull off a branch-swing for decades before finally managing it.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Totally (I am such a woman myself), but aren't these all sort of early dating tactics?

They should be. But Red Pill then thought it was a good idea to advise on marriages

[–]we-are-men-with-ven0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I got kicked off RPW for saying this.

If you get with a bloke in your early twenties with the intention of being supported to them- you are just making yourself vulnerable to all kinds of abuse and shitty relationship behaviour.

Get an education and a career FIRST and then consider being a SAHM (if that's what you really desire).

[–]Actuallyconsistent60 points61 points  (94 children) | Copy Link

It's pretty clear from your post and your responses in this thread that you have no idea what RP theory actually is. . .

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man14 points15 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

bringing up "negging" is always a good tell that the person criticising RP doesn't actually know shit about it.

[–]idhavetocharge11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Not too long ago negging was suggested in damn near every rp thread. Heavy emphasis on 'dread game'. I feel like a lot of them saw how ridiculous that was and toned it down.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The system works

[–]SadDoggo450 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well approaching s girl saying "you are so beautiful/smart/hot" 100% doesn't work because there is a million Indian guys saying the same thing

[–]PrideInIndividualityLiberal Red Piller0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Negging is very effective to bitchy girls.

[–]bluehorserunning-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You mean, 'Insecure girls who cannot stand to have anyone look down on them.'

[–]MirrorThaoss17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Totally, critics of RP are too much times just strawmanning

[–]friggandfrayed4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nailed it

[–]longduckdongger6 points7 points  (77 children) | Copy Link

Actually this is spot on, I've read my fair share of the red pill and almost got sucked into that shit. Sure some concepts are good advice such as self improvement and living your life for yourself. BUT it spreads more toxic masculinity by indirectly saying women are inferior to men. More toxic bullshit is "plating" women if they dont follow your guidelines for how a woman should behave. Its borderline misogyny and there's a reason it was on reddit's hitlist which in return caused the subreddit to go private. Not to mention why there are so many incels tied into the group because it preys on insecurity and spreads the whole be a man imagine in a very unhealthy way. Like I stated there are some okay concepts but overall the bad substantially outweighs the good.

[–]Actuallyconsistent7 points8 points  (69 children) | Copy Link

BUT it spreads more toxic masculinity by indirectly saying women are inferior to men.

This is 100% not true. You interpret redpill as saying women are inferior to men. You do not have to draw these conclusions. It's simply explaining how women actually work instead of the feminist/modern "women are wonderful" narrative.

there's a reason it was on reddit's hitlist

Because it disproves the sjw agenda. Actual Nazi subs were allowed much longer than trp because silly things like Nazism aren't actually a threat to the sjw narrative.

More toxic bullshit is "plating" women if they dont follow your guidelines for how a woman should behave.

This is hilarious. If someone doesn't respect your boundaries, it's toxic to withold commiment (read: sex) from that person. Imagine saying this to a woman.

It's this cliche bullshit like that TRP disproves.

Like I stated there are some okay concepts but overall the bad substantially outweighs the good.

There's bad interpretations, most of which I disagree with. They're not bad concepts.

[–]statusincorporated13 points14 points  (49 children) | Copy Link

You interpret redpill as saying women are inferior to men

Give me a break. TRP all but infantilizes women, states they're slaves to a biological 'hypergamous' impulse (hey, where are the genes for this impulse? any one found any? oh...just a bunch of just-so evo-psych BS? cool), states that a man is pretty much responsible for their emotional state (why you must remain stoic and calm), and that the only way to win a woman sexually via behavior is to perfectly mimic male gender norms circa 1950.

Sure, maybe there's no explicit statement regarding inferior and superior (however, TRP-associated posters, blogs, etc. often deride feminism and boast that men, not women, built civilization), but the implication is certainly present.

When the 'bad interpretations' are REASONABLE interpretations given the source material, you can't try to 'no true scotsman' your way out of a critique.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sure, maybe there's no explicit statement regarding inferior and superior

“Women are like the oldest teenager in the house” comes straight from the sidebar

[–]PrideInIndividualityLiberal Red Piller1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Still doesn't mean women are inferior.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right

[–]Actuallyconsistent-2 points-1 points  (45 children) | Copy Link

TRP all but infantilizes women, states they're slaves to a biological 'hypergamous' impulse

Show me where TRP thinks that men are some fucking how not slaves to their biological impulses. Then I'll believe we think women are inferior.

Sure, maybe there's no explicit statement regarding inferior and superior. . ., but the implication is certainly present.

Hahahaha "ohhh it's not there, but I swear you really do think it! Let me tell you what you think!"

I detest modern feminism. It's an attempt to remove femininity from women, and I think that's disgraceful.

(however, TRP-associated posters, blogs, etc. often deride feminism and boast that men, not women, built civilization),

Yes men physically built civilization. But women built society and influenced culture, and women raised children. It's modern feminism who is diminishing the role of women, and then interpreting that as "less than" what men did like physically constructing things.

I personally find that sexist, disgusting, and extremely insulting. But hey, that's why I'm not a leftist feminist sjw.

[–]longduckdongger5 points6 points  (40 children) | Copy Link

An attempt to removing femininity from women? Wow so a woman has to act feminine for men? Who defines femininity?

And there it is "I'm not a leftist feminist SJW". A right wing red pill WOW WHAT A SURPRISE

[–]Actuallyconsistent2 points3 points  (39 children) | Copy Link

Feminism actively discourages and makes women feel bad for being feminine.

I'm not on the right either. I'm an anti violence libertarian.

[–]longduckdongger3 points4 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

No actually it doesnt, it promotes women to be themselves for themselves and thay they arent objects to be harrassed, sexually suppressed, slut shamed or be obedient to Male standards and you stating anything else is just ignorant as fuck and just goes to show how you view women. Funny how every red pill is against feminism because it goes against principles that the red pill promotes. An example would be that men can have sex and "plate" whoever they want but a woman doing it means she has low self esteem, mental issues or is just a slut.

Your ignorance astounds me

[–]Actuallyconsistent1 point2 points  (31 children) | Copy Link

So all the women who say that being a SAHM makes them feel uncomfortable because of feminism, you're calling them liars? I just want to get this straight. Women lie about feeling uncomfortable because they disagree with you?

An example would be that men can have sex and "plate" whoever they want but a woman doing it means she has low self esteem, mental issues or is just a slut.

See, I don't think this way. Women being hypergamous is their own biological imperative just like men "plating" women is their biological imperative.

These are in direct competition with each other. Hypergamy works against men just as plating works against women. But TRP teaches you about these biological imperatives and gives men the tools to use these facts to their advantage in the dating pool, where blue pill/feminism would deny that women have any capability to do anything resembling hypergamy.

[–]longduckdongger5 points6 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

Jesus christ there is no biological anything. Men plating women is not biological anything, its them being pieces of shit and manipulation.

[–]frogsgoribbit7372 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I stay at home. Only extremists care at all. Most women tell me they either wish they could do that or that they would go crazy.

Women aren't a hivemind. We are all different. The key philosophy of Red Pill is that we are all the same. And that is super flawed.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Red pill makes actual women feel like they are either inferior or they are not women at all. I have been called a being because I can't be accepted as a woman by redpillers. I am forced to identify as gay transsexual male.

[–]Actuallyconsistent0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Those guys are assholes. But truth making people uncomfortable is no reason to deny that it's truth.

[–]lemonfluff0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What part of that is truth?

[–]longduckdongger2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And also I read your comment history and boy oh boy let me say all the things you said the red pill doesnt promote your comments and opinions speak otherwise

[–]Actuallyconsistent2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Alright, go for it and I'll point out the spots where you infer things I've never said.

[–]lemonfluff0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really. Only the extreme people in feminism do. Feminism is actually doing a great job at addressing that. Just like there used to be the "dont make fun of fat women, but ALSO dont belittle slim women" campaigns a few years ago, feminism is about accepting all women, whether they want to be "feminine" or "masculine" or anything else.

[–]statusincorporated4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Show me where TRP thinks that men are some fucking how not slaves to their biological impulses.

Where TRP states that men built civilization, a creation requiring the utilization of reason and long-term thinking, i.e. looking past impulsivity and 'biological impulse.' TRP states that men designed the monogamous marriage culture to lessen conflict among men and to control hypergamy, i.e. transcending biological male impulse.

Next question

Hahahaha [pretends that implicit premises and implications don't exist]

So men build civilization use reason and long-term thinking and can act outside of social pressure, whereas women are hard-wired to be hypergamous, emotionally unstable, submissive, and caged by the court of social opinion...

...yup, no inferior superior implications there!

[–]Actuallyconsistent5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP states that men designed the monogamous marriage culture to lessen conflict among men and to control hypergamy, i.e. transcending biological male impulse.

This is undoubtedly true. I don't think it was "men" who did this to "women". This was the elites at the time creating a religion that spoke to the most peaceful and productive way for humans to live.

They knew that the only thing to reduce biological urges is to have the fear of God and eternal damnation.

None of that means women are inferior. It just means some really smart people figured things out on how to run a society in ancient times. This seems like "patriarchy" bullshit that's all really just an apex fallacy.

You seem to think there are two teams. The ruling men with all the power and the weak women who have been opressed for centuries. When in reality a vast majority of men had no power either, and were also opressed by those in power.

[–]idhavetocharge1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What about that 'most responsible teenager' bullshit?

Rp is exactly men saying they have indeed been a slave to biological impulses. Therefore they have listed a strategy to not fall for those urges again. They also acknowledge that men cant entirely deny them.

None of this is 'implied', the entire above comments about what rp skirts is not implied, its stated as fact in the comments sections and upvoted by a majority. Its rp dogma 101 and its getting tiring that your argument strategy boils down to 'I know I'm not but what are you'.

[–]Actuallyconsistent0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What about that 'most responsible teenager' bullshit?

Rp is exactly men saying they have indeed been a slave to biological impulses. Therefore they have listed a strategy to not fall for those urges again. They also acknowledge that men cant entirely deny them.

This is all very vague, I'm not sure what you're getting at. I agree that men (and women) cannot fully resist their biological urges

[–]longduckdongger5 points6 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit, because it goes against the SJW angenda?

And no it teaches men that they are superior to women and that women will fuck a better alpha Chad given the chance. So that is the way women work? That is some of the most toxic bullshit, and people who believe that fucking garbage are just continuing the cycle.

There is a big difference between boundaries and putting unhealthy expectations on partners and just because they dont fit your idealism you put then on the back burner because that's what an "alpha" does, but if anyone disagrees they're a beta who will end up being with a woman who settled after she got her fill of chads.

If you cant see the toxic masculine bullshit that this subreddit produces and that ot preys on men with insecurities and teaches them to prey on women with insecurities and emotionally manipulate them into more or less behaving themselves then I truly feel sorry for whatever woman that has the unfortunate luck of being with you. Let's hope you dont have a daughter now or in the future.

[–]Actuallyconsistent7 points8 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

And no it teaches men that they are superior to women and that women will fuck a better alpha Chad given the chance.

You are so silly in your extreme language. You're making it out to be something it isnt. Women like to date up. And they will go for the best partner that they can secure. Men also will go for the best partner they can secure.

This is just teaching men that women won't love them like their mother. You must be a man for a woman to love you. Strong, stoic, and comforting. Anything else is fantastical shit that you are making up.

There is a big difference between boundaries and putting unhealthy expectations on partners and just because they dont fit your idealism you put then on the back burner because that's what an "alpha" does, but if anyone disagrees they're a beta who will end up being with a woman who settled after she got her fill of chads

Again, you're making all of this up. This has nothing to do with TRP. I think this is your own insecurity or something. I'm saying boundaries. You went in some other weird direction for no reason.

teaches them to prey on women with insecurities and emotionally manipulate them

Lol this isn't true. Again, that's your own insecurity bleeding through. There is no fundamental difference between emotional manipulation and game.

woman that has the unfortunate luck of being with you. Let's hope you dont have a daughter now or in the future.

My wife will be happy because we will be in fullfilling complimentary roles. My daughters will be happy because they will be born into a loving family with a happy mother and a happy father. I will teach them to be good people, because I am a good person.

You act like TRP makes you into a bad person, when in reality truth can never make you a shitty person. Your shitty behavior is always up to you.

[–]reluctantly_red3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No teenage daughter is ever happy.

[–]Actuallyconsistent1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Haha that's true. I suppose I will have to make the best of it from ages 12-22

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've had a teenage girl in the house for the last twenty years.

[–]frogsgoribbit7372 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I didn't marry the best partner I could secure. If I had been looking for a husband with that in mind, I would be with someone far richer and far more attractive than the man I did marry.

The fact is that most people are marrying because they LOVE someone.

[–]Actuallyconsistent2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Is your husband not the best, most important man in your world??

[–]badgersonice0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If thinking your spouse is the best, most important person of the opposite sex in your world is your definition of hypergamy, then by your definition, a married man is either hypergamous or he's a shit husband. If a man thinks some other woman is the best, most important woman in his world, then the marriage is doomed.

[–]longduckdongger3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Lol my insecurities? I've spend years fixing the toxic masculine bullshit that was bestowed on to me growing up. Men dont have to be strong, or stoic we are each a different individual with different emotions and saying one has to act a certain way to he considered a man is toxic as shit.

Your good family roles are fine and dandy but from what the red pill teaches is that men will be superior. You can try and spin the shit and what you claim it means but it still garbage. Go read some articles about men who broke away from the red pill belief and they will be saying almost spot on with what I am saying, or is that just the sjw agenda speaking? And commenting on my language use is pretty irrelevant because of the language used in that shitty subreddit.

You're just the typical red piller, nothing anyone says can show you how damaging the beliefs it preaches are to men. It just keeping a cycle of shiity masculinity and misogyny going and everyone is just a sheep to the feminist movement and are betas.

I'm just going to end this because arguing with a red pill is like arguing with a rock. Keep those shitty beliefs alive

[–]Actuallyconsistent4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Men dont have to be strong, or stoic we are each a different individual with different emotions and saying one has to act a certain way to he considered a man is toxic as shit.

I think strong men are benifical to society, and that women are attracted to strong men. Strong does not have to mean physically strong, and it also has zero negative connotations to it.

one has to act a certain way to he considered a man is toxic as shit.

I would agree with you. Weak men are still men. It's also a core reason why I disagree with the modern take on gender, but that's a whole other topic.

red pill teaches is that men will be superior

I'm sorry but I do not agree with this statement. I don't think men are superior to women. They're different in a very complex complimentary way. Men can't survive without women and women can't survive without men. I also don't hate women. I love women.

nothing anyone says can show you how damaging the beliefs it preaches are to men.

You're right. When you have fundamental disagreements about what you think is true in the world, simply someone saying "your views are problematic" is not going to convince me that my views are false. That is a blissfully ignorant way to look at the world. especially when I disagree that the views are problematic in the first place.

I'm just going to end this because arguing with a red pill is like arguing with a rock. Keep those shitty beliefs alive

You're more rock like than me. You just insult character instead of the points, and try to morally depict me as a bad person when I'm far from it. Then you get on your high horse and ride off into the distance like you've accomplished something, waving your virtuous flag to tell all your buddies whaat a good person you are.

It's fake. It's weak. Don't be weak. Anyone encouraging you to be a victim or to be weak is detrimental to your well-being.

[–]longduckdongger2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The red pill instills shitty behavior which again is why it was on reddit's hit list, not because of sjw agenda. I'm not hoping on a high horse the only thing I am proud of is that I broke away from that red pill bullshit and view the world in a much healthier way as have my other men who have done the same.

Regardless of what you try and say the red pill is toxic and causes men to view women in an unhealthy way. It teaches emotional manipulation and again anyone who disagrees is a beta and will eventually be someone that is a partner that a woman eventually settles with. The only reason you disagree is because you've got your head up its ass.

[–]Actuallyconsistent2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do realize that some people will do wrong with these ideas.

It teaches emotional manipulation

Alright, please explain the fundamental difference between emotional manipulation and game. And yes, before you BS me, I know you run game.

[–]SlashCo800 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

To be fair, RP does provide some good advice and some insights, but there's also a lot of misogynistic edgelord crap. Acting like men are superior and should always hold themselves above women, using emotional manipulation, praising dark triad traits etc. Even if I could start acting like this and it got me laid, I probably would end up not liking myself very much.

[–]Actuallyconsistent0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

but there's also a lot of misogynistic edgelord crap.

I can't deny that there is too much of this in the community. But I would say the cause of this is that RP is mostly made up of men who are resentful because they've been lied to their whole lives about women, and they blame women instead of blaming themselves or society.

using emotional manipulation

I disagree this is even a thing. Emotional manipulation and game are the same thing, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with it.

[–]SlashCo800 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I disagree this is even a thing. Emotional manipulation and game are the same thing, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with it.

I was referring to dread game, treating her like an inferior and other stuff that's like one degree away from emotional abuse. I think that's what OP meant when saying RP tactics attract women with self-esteem issues or mental problems.

[–]Actuallyconsistent0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dread game is just a way to demonstrate through your actions that they crossed a boundary you have. If someone suggested that women don't maintain solid boundaries they'd be crucified for it.

like one degree away from emotional abuse

It's not by itself. Yes you can emotionally abuse someone, but it has nothing to do with the concept of dread. People are going to emotionally abuse someone through a number of different methods. Teaching dread is not teaching emotional abuse.

[–]lemonfluff0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly! Well said.

[–]PrideInIndividualityLiberal Red Piller0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

women are inferior to men

I've never heard anyone say that on TRP nor do I believe anyone believes that.

[–]reluctantly_red-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If your partner isn't behaving appropriately why shouldn't they be downgraded?

[–]longduckdongger2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Lol downgraded? You red pill cucks astound me when it comes to ignorance and being example of toxic masculinity

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

We should just accept when our GF misbehaves?

[–]longduckdongger1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So should she plate some Chad when you misbehave or is that a double standard

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If she doesn't like how he's behaving she can (and should) take appropriate action. No double standard here.

[–]Redpillldd0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely true. However, there is one fact OP accidentally hit the nail on the head with: Red Pill only tells you how to handle - and only "works on" - women who have mental problems...

... which is all of them. ;)

[–]statusincorporated0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Aye, no true scotsman!

[–]Actuallyconsistent4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

someone strawmans

"You're strawmanning!"

"No true Scotsman"

[–]statusincorporated0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, babe, if the 'misinterpretation' is a rather common critique that gets leveled over and and over and over again at the 'philosophy,' then maybe it's not a strawman. Maybe it's a REASONABLE interpretation of the source material that you're mischaracterizing as a 'strawman.'

[–]Actuallyconsistent4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I disagree. I think it's an intentional misrepresentation in order to discredit the ideas without having to engage with them.

[–]statusincorporated0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So tons of different sources from varying points of view all coming away with a similar interpretation are all just "intentionally misrepresenting" TRP?

It's not just 'feminists' who interpret TRP in that way.

[–]Actuallyconsistent1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not just 'feminists' who interpret TRP in that way.

Very true. It's feminists and sexists. That's entirely the point. Just like associating racists with the right discourages anti immigration talk. It really appeals to the racists and the non racists are left doggy paddling just denying being racist instead of making an actual point.

[–]Gravel_RoadsJust a Pill27 points28 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

RP uses a lot of stupid edgelord phrasing, which ends up misrepresenting a lot of the concepts they're talking about. From my understanding, at its source "negging" is used when most other people would just say "teasing". It's just the male version of a "shit test". It's a way to flirt that goes counter to the typical "compliment her over and over again" approach.

Not to say that many dudes don't get it wrong and take it literally to mean that you should just go around insulting women. And yeah, this approach only tends to work on damaged women. But I have a feeling that if a dude is so socially retarded he can't figure out how to even make enjoyable conversation, he's probably gonna be scraping the bottom of the barrel regardless.

I thought about it when I heard a woman boasting about finally getting a tall guy with abs and she really seemed to think that someone would care

Boasting to who? Her friends? Talking positively about our partners is a normal thing people do in relationships. I've heard plenty of men "boasting" about how hot they find their girlfriends and... that's fine? You're supposed to like your partner. And people like talking about things that make them happy. The fact that you don't care is irrelevant -- you are free to not participate in the conversations strangers are having with each other, yanno?

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah I agree with this. It seems OP is taking lots of very typical human behaviors and claiming they’re problematic. Women boast about their husbands and how much they love them all the time. I don’t think that’s means insecurity of whatever OP is claiming.

[–]Gravel_RoadsJust a Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah ditto.

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill Man10 points11 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

> Also the idea of negging seems pointless. If someone shows lessened interest or interest to date others then usually people withdraw and let others do as they please. Negging would only work on people whose self worth would suffer and who have a need to "show" others and "win" in relationships.

Its not just push. Its push-pull for a good reason.

> a woman boasting

The smart ones show, dont tell

[–]_Anarchon_4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I find negging only works on a portion of women. Mainly, it works on competitive women that don't know what you're up to. Some of them are wise to the tactic.

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill Man3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Negging is a only one of many ways to deliver proper push.

[–]Katammers5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You’re right. I once went on a date with a guy who tried to neg me and I pushed myself right the hell outta there.

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good for ya

[–]UEMcGillRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Most of these autistic fucks don't understand that it's about delivering emotion. It's about bringing excitement then, changing in the other direction. If shes in a low emotion state and or a poor emotional state and you choose poorly, yeah shit can go wrong. But properly timed? Tingles.

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Calibration is like 50% of the proper game and it only comes with experience.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

negging literally works on all women (and all men) if you do it correctly.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Negging isn’t teasing. People here get it confused or try to play it down

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

psst... TRP is not the same as PUA.

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

sure, but learning game is generally suggested as a part of red pill journey

[–]SlashCo800 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I find a lot of people misunderstand this and take it to mean "be a prick and insult her." It's supposed to be light teasing and essentially showing her that you're confident in your own skin, see yourself as equal or even superior to her, and are not a simpering doormat who'll do or say anything for a chance to get with her. Then of course some idiots took it too far, some people misinterpreted it and here we are.

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Two big groups who learnt about game were socially uncalibrated men who were there to learn social skills and blues who never intended to learn and were just looking for reasons to mock the whole thing. No surprise there were a lot of misunderstandings.

[–]SlashCo800 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh yeah, there are definitely some bluepill/feminist types as well who are just arguing in bad faith and attacking/mocking the concept of negging and other pickup techniques without even trying to understand them.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rp says just as much about those that use it. While I agree it works on those types of women, men with low self esteem employ it for a.sense of empowerment.

And it works. Unfortunately some men dont pay attention to the benefits of learning how to be fun. They just like the utilities of being manipulative; just like the women they complain about.

Luckily not all rp dudes do this.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ21 points22 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

  • You label normal female behaviour, "awalt", as mental issues. It's not. Women are more neurotic, therefore they're more likely to have self-esteem concerns.
  • Women are selectors, that's their instinctive role, and they feel best while doing it. Success means selecting a good male. Their self worth is therefore bound to it, no surprise here.
  • Women can get external validation from their current success, but they don't necessarily need it. Nobody cares you've earned lot of money but you sure are happy nonetheless.
  • Women can act like "nawalt", however it won't make them happy, and therefore it's unlikely that they sustain such behaviour.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Normal would be something that most do, but it's a minority that ties their self worth to who their husband is or what they do. I've rarely seen these women who act like women should act according to red pill to be happy, but I have seen regular women happy.

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

21% of women over 20 are on anti-depressants. When bumped to include anxiety and other anti-psychotics, it’s closer to 30%.

Regular women are indeed anxious depressed balls of emotion. That doesn’t make them inferior though in my opinion.

I see regular women player by douchebags and peg their self-worth to their image all the time. These are regular things that regular women do.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope6 points7 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Negging works when a woman is not that into you. That is, if you just orbit her, she's dry, but negging make you seem less beta.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

If sees not that into you and you try to neg her by saying she is ugly/fat/loser she will just think you have a bad day or you have lost interest and she will leave you alone. If she's not into you and you neg her by telling you have others she will just be happy for you.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

neg her by saying she is ugly/fat/loser

oh so you dont know what negging, or anything in RP is. makes sense

[–]rus9384Misanthrope6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

she is ugly/fat/loser

No, this is too stupid negging. You gotta use better criticisms, which look less like plain insults and more like a constructive critique, so she could relate to that.

[–]arcticshqip[S] -1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I didn't mean that anyone would use plain insults, just tried to compliment in a way that sounds like it isn't a compliment. Women are not that dumb that they wouldn't notice. Like saying that she has great haircolor, is it natural and making her think her roots are showing or that you don't appreciate natural hair tone. Or saying that you think she is really smart.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Complimenting does not work if she actually is cold towards you.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

My examples were compliments that were negative, not real compliments.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

How is saying that a girl is smart not a compliment? I mean, the compliment that does not work for Stacey is that she's pretty. It's like saying an NBA player that he's tall.

[–]arcticshqip[S] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Because the only reason a red pill man would say that to a woman is to make her think she is ugly or say it in a sarcastic way to make her think she is dumb. For example if you are talking about normal things and man says; wow, you're really smart for knowing so much about this issue.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

to make her think she is ugly

Stacey doesn't buy that just like as stupid "You're ugly" negging.

say it in a sarcastic way to make her think she is dumb

This is another thing. It can work.

But it's better to criticize her for spending too much time on meaningless "beauty enhancing" things. Even Stacies color their nails, and it's a really useless thing. Or to say that she made a bad decision coloring her hair. Or whatever. Women are sensitive towards look-oriented criticisms like these, even if they are conventionally attractive.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But you do realize that ugly women are also women? If you try these things on a ugly woman it won't work, so it doesn't work on all women.

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill Man-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

by saying she is ugly/fat/loser

That is not a correct way to neg in 99% cases

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What would be the correct way then?

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Way, waaaay more subtle

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I gave examples of negging in other post. See those.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It seems that some ideas are based on the idea that women's self worth and value is based on what kind of man they are with and especially on the idea that women consider their men as trophies.

Almost as trophies but more as status symbols. Ever noticed how women who marry rich, powerful men automatically get the status he has? Getting that implies she's worth that. So of course her self esteem is tied to the kind of partner she chooses. Why else would a woman leave unemployed men at a far higher rate than employed men? If women didn't believe their value is tied to their partner's, those men in the unemployment line would all be married.

Also the idea of negging seems pointless. If someone shows lessened interest or interest to date others then usually people withdraw and let others do as they please. Negging would only work on people whose self worth would suffer and who have a need to "show" others and "win" in relationships.

Negging is playful banter, i.e. flirting, teasing, joking. Things you see people engage in when they are testing the waters, so to speak.

[–]backstable 1 points [recovered]  (9 children) | Copy Link

The majority of women have self-esteem issues and/or mental problems.

I think you and others have a hard time picturing what applying redpill looks like IRL. Negging is really just lighthearted, playful banter. It's also rarely discussed on TRP, so hardly a core principle.

It seems that some ideas are based on the idea that women's self worth and value is based on what kind of man they are with

It is. Most women care a great deal about what kind of man they are with, and how he compares to their friend's bfs/husbands. Of course, every single woman on PPD will claim they don't give a shit about that, but most of them are lying. Women's maturity levels have been declining consistently as society pampers them more and more. Society is the rich parents and women are the spoiled teenage girls.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

That is just pointless argument. Why do you think women would lie and they would not even know that they are telling a lie? What if they are telling the truth? What if women actually act like humans?

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Womendo act like humans. This is how humans act. Shitty

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most humans have good intentions and not doing good things is usually caused by lack of time or resources. People do good things all the time.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

most humans have good intentions

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Amen. So many problems with good intentions, it's ridiculous.

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

People are very very often not great at being self aware, lots of times people think of themselves one way but act another

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women don’t know or understand what they are attracted to. This happens all the time. Quick example is the dad bod

[–]TheLongerCon-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Self deception is one of the most human traits there is. Probably because it makes it easier to deceive others.

[–]allweknowisD-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s how they convince themselves they’re right. Easy to say women are lying because obviously TRP know women better than anyone else in the planet

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes6 points7 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Define “self-esteem issues or mental issues”. Black women have children 70% out of wedlock. White women have children 30% out of wedlock. Women are reactive sexually. If you’re going to diagnose 70% of black women with “low self esteem” go for it.

RP theory works on women who have reactive sexuality- which is the majority of them.

[–]ggavigoose6 points7 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

That’s excellent, let’s just jump straight to a racially-motivated conclusion about women’s sexual promiscuity and self-respect without factoring in the wildly different economic and social conditions a white woman and a black woman in America are going to experience. Tell us, when are you publishing your NYT-bestseller on phrenology and eugenics?

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Phrenology and eugenics? Women are placing their children in worse opportunities of their own free will. There is no conspiracy necessary. Just stupidity.

They choose to have children with bums. It just so happens at different rates with different races. But it’s upticking with all of them.

[–]allweknowisD-2 points-1 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I feel like hell will freeze over before I see a single man on this sub realising that bringing a child into the world takes two people.

But yeah, it’s only the woman’s fault they’re single mothers. Men hold zero responsibility

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It takes one woman’s final unilateral decision. She has birth control, plan B, and abortion. All are legal options to her. The decision to bring a child into this world is 100% on the woman in the US.

[–]allweknowisD-2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

And men like to claim women don’t take responsibility for their actions lol

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Because they don’t. If dudes had the final, unilateral decision to bring life into the world, my argument would be the same. Women want it both ways.

“My body my choice”

“It takes two to make a baby”

Which is it?

[–]allweknowisD-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Both.

It still takes 2 to make a baby, but I guess I’m not surprised a man wants to dissolve any responsibility of men in this scenario.

And you wonder why the government have child support laws, cause dudes want to fuck anything and leave everyone else to deal with their choices.

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

IT ISN’T HIS CHOICE.

She has the final say.

IT’S HER CHOICE.

You are right The government needs men to transfer wealth to children instead of either having feral children or the government be on the hook for the kid. But it doesn’t change the overall morality.

Final choice=final responsibility. Until men have a say in whether or not a child is born, it is 100% the woman’s responsibility.

[–]allweknowisD0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol okay dude. Didn’t know women got themselves knocked up and men couldn’t insist on protection.

I forgot, men aren’t accountable for their own actions 🤷‍♀️

[–]arcticshqip[S] 7 points8 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

What has having children out of wedlock have anything to do with the whole thing? I meant the issues that one might have and was using their husband or man as trophy or a thing to show to others, to get social validation or imagine that they would get social validation.

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

And if that was true, less and less women would have children out of wedlock, however we see the opposite occurring. The role of “father” is a diminishing role in the West and the collective unconscious has become Oedipal.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Your argument seems pointless. Having the child out of wedlock doesn't mean that they don't live in nuclear family or that couple doesn't get married after giving birth.

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It means mostly that, yes. And all the disadvantages which come with it.

Do you honestly believe the 70% of black children are majority raised in a nuclear family? The institution is broken.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Advantages or disadvantages of having a child out of wedlock come from jurisdiction. I got married just before giving birth in case I happen to die, but my brother got married to his wife some weeks after having their child.

Some people cohabit and some not. Here most women who have kids out of wedlock still live as a nuclear family. There is only a very, very small minority of black people and they are mostly muslim so...

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

what do you mean by collective unconscious becoming oedipal? (if im not asking too much.. i probably am)

[–]itiswr1ttenEndorsed Negotiable Instrument3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Everyone is gravitating towards looking for mommy or being matriarch

Goes much deeper but that's the gist and it's not good

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

to be fair i don’t think it’s ever not been this way

[–]itiswr1ttenEndorsed Negotiable Instrument2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Historically, societies tend to not fare so well when the cycle flips back this way.

However, we don't fight with spears and tribal warfare. Hard to say, but I'm certain boys growing up looking for mommy gf is A Bad Thing for both parties so TRP actively works to get boys out of this mindset

[–]The_Lone_Apple 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

Red Pill theories are pseudoscience plain and simple. They are the equivalent of the kind of nonsense spouted by self-help evangelists like Tony Robbins. Tell people what they want to hear. Use jargon that makes it sound scientific. Add on a layer of us versus them paranoia/conspiracy. There you have the perfect recipe for recruiting into adjacent ideologies.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sounds about right. Also evolution psychology based on animals applied to humans when our biology makes mating and rearing completely different than apes.

[–]Actuallyconsistent1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

evolution psychology based on animals

Evo psych is based on humans. . .wtf are you talking about?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

humans are animals, and evpsych is about our evolution, not the evolution of other animals applied to us

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is CMV.

[–]The_Lone_Apple0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I deleted my comment. I'm sure there'll be occasion to use somewhere else.

[–]Binaural_Wave1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yup after much discussing this, I've come to the realization that, RP followers think they're just expanding upon normal social interaction:

Average RP defender: If meeting someone at the bar and hooking up is posible without the RP, then, The RP simply takes a systematic view on what works and what doesn't. We're not doing anything wrong, it's just pulling the same thing but "smarter", with a goal in mind.

What's truly going on is that instead of playing the game offering what they have in store for earned merit, they instead exploit the lacking of the other person.

For example: Instead of being super alpha, having your shit together, showing intelligence, charisma, and such; they will predate over the girl who was left out looking out for her friends' seat at the bar. This will ensure that they're not "cockblocked" by some of her friends, might fulfill the lack of company at the moment, and might even get the chance to dig in further for personal info in the process. It's a ruthless calcule, a game of numbers -> what can get you laid the easier? This, exactly.

Obviously, those who cave in are either those who know what's going on, and still go for the Ride (which then is a mutual contract of some sort). And those who are unstable and somewhat defenseless.

It's easier to present yourself as the sweetest cookie when you put yourself on the starved people's plate (If you get the allegory).

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is well put. I have often wondered why I have some friends who complain why they never meet anyone who wants a relationship and they will only get used for sex. I can't tell them directly that being so hungry for attention and in need of validation that they are willing to date anyone who they think is "a good catch" in their social circles they are setting themselves up to be used.

[–]TheBookOfSeilAn ounce of Snu Snu is worth a pound of cure1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Haven’t you heard? Most women have self-esteem issues or mental problems /s

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Too bad 90% of women have self esteem issues and mental problems

[–]yg3011 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m just saying, this would explain why a lot of redpillers complain so much about BPD women.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Those are exactly the type of women who this would work on, they get hooked on someone fast and after being rejected get mean and vindictive.

[–]yg3011 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, not to mention the fact that most of the redpillers I’ve seen don’t even seem to fully understand their ideology and apply it in imperfect, contradictory, amoral or immoral ways.

Like the dudes who say you need to be outcome independent so you can get pussy, all with a straight face.

Or the ones who say “sexual strategy is amoral” and forgot to read their own sidebar where it says, “it’s up to you to choose how to use TRP.”

Judging from what I’ve seen people act like after diving in, it seems really toxic and shitty for all parties involved.

[–]rasmelo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No woman with self respect would sleep with a red pill man.

[–]toysjoeMGTOW4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So....all women.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Then what are those people look like women, identify as women but are not psychologically like women?

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Stunning and brave transgenders, obviously.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

if that was the case, every human being who wanted to better themselves and wanted the best thing available for themselves, would have “self esteem issues”... this way the phrase would kinda lose its meaning, no?

the red pill is just theory about humans in general. it doesnt care about how you apply it or don’t apply it; it doesnt care about the consequences (consequences being mgtow, pick up artistry...) it is not a set of manipulative techniques such as PUA, therefore it doesn’t “work”, it just is. your premise is wrong

if the red pill is true (or true enough).. thats for you to decide. seems like you already did so i won’t try to change your mind

also The Red Pill is not the same as internet page reddit red pill 2019

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

it is not a set of manipulative techniques such as PUA

TRP is not PUA. Why do so many people not see this?

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I spoke about the women who the red pill theories are used on, not the men using them and "improving" themselves.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

no. again, the red pill is not pick up artistry

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

if that was the case, every human being who wanted to better themselves and wanted the best thing available for themselves, would have “self esteem issues”... this way the phrase would kinda lose its meaning, no?

But there is a reason why would a person want something better. Chad just to brag about with girlfriends? iPhone to brag about your money? That falls under the topic.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

what about a better job because the one you’ve got now sucks? i dont see how this has anythinng to do with self esteem

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

what about a better job because the one you’ve got now sucks?

And the OP did not talk about this. The example actually told about a girl who wants to brag about Chad bf.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

well ok that would be a self esteem issue i guess. but i dont see how that is exclusive to the red pill/how the red pill exploits or promotes this kind of behaviour?

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The OP probably claims TRP only works on such girls. Hence there are so many terps resenting that girls are shit testing them and acting bitchy.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

yeah, here’s where i disagree with OP. i’d say all girls tend to shit test and act bitchy (when circumstances inspire them to be that way) AWALT

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

all girls tend to shit test and act bitchy

But not as often as girls terps keep as plates.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

true ruski, true

[–]arcticshqip[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That would not be a red pill woman. Red pill men always emphasize that men work and lazy women just exist and steal their money. And if someone wants to change their job they actually have do something and not just manipulate others too think they are doing something better.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i dont see how this has anything to do with... anything

[–]arcticshqip[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's the point, if you need to show to others that you have something trendy or expensive even if you don't need it or want it, it's a sign of low self esteem. Need for validation from unknown people.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not sure it's about self-esteem. It's similar to why people play games. Or watch movies. Or whatever. They like the result.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country3 points4 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

It works on all women (if applied correctly).Don't try to reason it away just try it.Works like magic

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why can't you use punctuation correctly? What is happening in your brain when you're typing?

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm on mobile and usually in a hurry.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope9 points10 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Lol, it works on all women you were successful with. Nice confirmation bias.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I mean in all types of women.Not that I can bang each and every woman obviously.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I am not sure you know all types that exist. How do you know there is no another one?

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Well I don't know that,but what's your point?I have tried it with the confident girl,the party girl,the good student girl,the nerdy girl etc. etc.Sure there might be some type that consists of two women worldwide but what does it matter?It definitely isn't about self esteem issues as the OP claims.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I have tried it with the confident girl,the party girl,the good student girl,the nerdy girl etc. etc.

Oh, in this sense I agree with you. It's like "there are olive eaters among all types of girls".

It definitely isn't about self esteem issues as the OP claims.

Well, the OP focuses on a certain subset of RP strategies.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

If it works on all women i have tried and pretty much all men who have tried it and since we aren't targeting some specific characteristic or subtype of women.Then it's safe to assume that it works on all women.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

it works

My question is, what exactly works? TRP suggests a multitude of strategies.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

All of them?I can't think of any that doesn't.Push-pull ,frame,dread, DGAF attitude honestly I can't think of any that doesn't work.What do you believe doesn't always work?

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Take a single one. It won't work on all girls. There is a reason there are multiple strategies.

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Works in a sence that it increases your success ration dramatically.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. What you realize a small you learn game and red pill is all women respond to the exact same cues, symbols, etc.

Anything else is just rationalization or statistical outliers.

[–]arcticshqip[S] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I will never try it, I don't hate myself. Like I said, I was once (or several times) proposed by someone who thought that red pill ideas are truth. That was my reason to say no to an otherwise nice person.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You are a woman?

If you understood that the dude was using red pill techniques or the dude talked about red pill theory withh you then he wasn't doing it correctly.If you explain the magic trick it's no longer magic.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

He didn't explain it, it wasn't and it isn't that hard to tell when people think that way.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He doesn't have to explicitly say it.For example a neg that goes too far becomes too obvious (and insulting). Redpill techniques are used by pretty much all romantically successful men (unless they are so good looking they don't have to do anything to be attractive) , whether they do it consciously or not.

[–]_Anarchon_2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Red pill theories only work on women who have self-esteem issues or mental problems.

Most women have self-esteem issues and/or mental problems

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

sigh... where are the mods? we need a check here, this person knows nothing about TRP.

Please if you gonna try to discredit TRP, at least get your information from the source, not the blue pill sub, they have zero reason to give you the correct info on the red pill.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm sorry I exist, I won't do it again.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

just read before posting, there is an easy glossary up top you can read. Just do not post without research or without knowing the correct definitions.

[–]backstable 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Please if you gonna try to discredit TRP, at least get your information from the source, not the blue pill sub, they have zero reason to give you the correct info on the red pill.

I really wonder how many users who identify as purple or blue pill have actually browsed TRP. Not just read random comments linked from other subs. I would think this would be a hard rule on this sub, but I don't think even the mods have ever read TRP for themselves.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

it happens, ive seen mods in TRP.

Also it is in the rules to not just troll... so....

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[–]FlavFal31F3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Agreed. It's funny how every "pill" is almost like a cult where its believers claim they can explain and predict the behavior of every single woman/man out there.

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep lot of crazies

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Is there such a thing as a woman without self esteem issues?

[–]FlavFal31F0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know a few. Tbh it’s hard to find anyone without them tho

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Agreed, it's why I absolutely abhor redpill thought.

Women are not just wet holes, they're people. If they're not interested in fucking you, so be it. Sitting there thinking of ways to manipulate previously-abused or otherwise hurting people is the literal definition of evil.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If youre done with redpill thought then take the black, brother. We need more watchers on the wall.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I prefer my "amused bystander on the sidelines" MGTOW stance

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Black flair at least then

[–]CamoWoobie10000Women are SHIT0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sitting there thinking of ways to manipulate previously-abused or otherwise hurting people is the literal definition of evil.

If thats wrong, then I dont wanna be right

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, this - RP thinking turns you into the monster that you hate.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And a wild NAWALT appears

[–]CamoWoobie10000Women are SHIT1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So, it works on a large portion of young women, possibly even the majority?

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It works on women that are not worth being with.

[–]CamoWoobie10000Women are SHIT0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If youre just trying to smash, then it doesnt matter if theyre worth being with.

[–]angels-fanCrooning over hellscapes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh good. Another BP troll that doesn't know what RP is and is TOTES going to debate in good faith. 🙄

[–]ImmortalMartial0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

So, in modern times that basically makes it all women.

Have you heard of a woman that never went to therapy?

[–]arcticshqip[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes, all other women than upper class american women are those who never went to therapy.

[–]ImmortalMartial0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

All middle and lower class women don't go to therapy? What? Are you seriously delusional to this immeasurable point? My own sister went for many, many years paid for my parents who barely made anything. I don't even have to look any stats up as I usually would to disprove shit, this time I can just laugh at you directly.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Middle and lower class people would go to therapy if they had very serious issues ( because it costs) and majority of people are still mostly sane and balanced. And your point was that all women need therapy, not that some women need it.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It works on any woman who wants a dominant man, I think. I don’t think it works so well on women looking for egalitarian relationships. So I don’t think that it’s a personality flaw in women that makes it successful. Rather, it’s a specific mindset. Red Pill will tell you “All women want to be led.” But I really don’t believe that, although I do think that almost all women want to be protected.

Of course, if a guy makes it obvious that he’s following RP, then most women who know what it is aren’t going to be attracted to that.

[–]MGTOWtoday0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most Red Pill concepts are rooted in science. Now whether someone fully grasps that science or not is debatable. But I assure you, that science is sound.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Give examples of science? Links to actual studies or their abstracts and not to unscientific articles or surveys that disguise as a study. Also, most sociological and psychological studies only apply to certain cultures or demographics but somehow red pill claims to be universal, why?

[–]MGTOWtoday0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, a lot of Red Pill concepts are based upon a ton of scientific evidence, but it would help if we could narrow things down a bit more. Concepts like hypergamy and neoteny are all grounded on solid science. I can provide you links if you'd like.

In psychology, mental illness is culture specific. So for instance, in the USA, suicide is often associated with depression, while in places like Japan where there's a cultural value of honoring your ancestors, suicide is considered noble if you've done something to shame your ancestors.

While culture can produce differences, evolutionary behavior is rooted in something that predates that culture, and it's universal among human beings. So, for instance, there's a universal ideal hip to waist ratio that men desire in women, which is rooted in the best healthy figure for child bearing. This is a universal among all human beings, and even tests on men born blind desire this just as any other man.

The science can get more complex though. There are ideal facial symmetries that men universally find beautiful. However, it has been found that there can be a variance in this, if the given population in one local area suffered from disease that affected these facial symmetries. In these local cultures beauty is more highly valued than most, because there is a greater demand to have disease-free offspring. So while there can be variances, those variances still follow evolutionarily determined universals.

Edit: I can provide you links to these claims later tonight, but I've got to get back to work right now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Allot of women seem to be like this. Its sad because they never have fulfilling relationships.

[–]pnadlerlaw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

First of all, everyone has mental problems.

Maybe not everyone has bipolar or schizophrenia, but everyone has some mental problems.

As far as self esteem issues, idk. I have mixed feelings about that. It really depends how people cope and adjust to life. There are girls with self-esteem issues who are the sweetest, nicest, most stable and well-adjusted people, but when you know them personally and privately, you’re shocked to find out how little they believe in themselves and how they just need someone next to them to reassure them that they can do it. I’m talking brilliant and intelligent women here. Beautiful women. Their self-esteem has just been torn down for whatever reason. These girls don’t fall for that alpha/machismo/RP bs.

It’s kind of like anxiety, there is no one singular flavor of low self-esteem. I have anxiety. But I dance, I’m social, I handle trials and oral arguments on appeal, I give presentations and am a natural public speaker with no Xanax or anything like that. So are the psychiatrists and psychologists wrong? Are they just milking my health insurance? It’s possible. But my very real panic attacks and constant worrying tell me otherwise.

Then, there’s a flavor of low self-esteem we have all seen, but we may not pinpoint or identity as low self-esteem. Has anyone seen X-Men, where the black cab driver with short hair and hazel eyes, tall thin/skinny dude, his superpower is to “adapt.” He puts his head under water and grows gills? Remember when Hans Von Duché fills his mouth with energy? What happened? He started to turn to rock/stone in order to adapt.

Well, this sort of transcends political ideology. You see this in conservative women, and you also see this in liberal women. I’m no psychologist, so the best I can offer is layman’s pop psychology. It starts off with a girl who is somewhat sheltered by her parents, and suddenly blitz rushed with all this information from the outside world. It challenges her self-image, how attractive and valuable she is relative to other girls, whether men would be interested in her (compared to other girls), etc. This is obviously emotionally painful stuff to a little girl, and it’s the parents’ mistake for not slowly EXPOSING her to this earlier and in gradual doses so she can have an easier time coping and adjusting. It’s also the parents’ fault for maybe being too busy or not caring in the right way and giving her the kind of parenting she really needed (e.g., instead of brainwashing her about religion and how precious all life is for as long as it’s still in the womb, conservative values, diversity and how women are always perpetual victims, or liberal values, maybe the parents could have asked her questions about what she’s actually struggling with in her young life and help her with coping and adjusting as a child). Without their help, and with what seemed like a flood of emotional micro-traumas, some girls cope or adjust by creating a hard, numb, confident exterior. It’s almost like they sever their nerves. They cultivate this persona, and disconnect their personality from the threat of external stimuli. Over time, the personality loses touch with external stimuli (the child has repeated onto itself what her parents had done to her). What “is” extremely well developed (because it has stood in the way of all the external stimuli) is the girl’s “inner parent” or “super ego.”

So, when you have these girls grow up to be teenagers and young adults, and their feigned shell 🐚 is developing by trying to emulate “strong” behaviors to prevent her from getting hurt by the external world, she will walk like a confident duck 🦆, she will look like a confident duck 🦆, but inside, she’s a suppressed, repressed, and sheltered chicken 🐓(and I don’t mean that in a demeaning way). This is a girl with a very strong and overpowering inner parent, but a severely underdeveloped inner child. She is the embodiment of what Kurt Vonnegut said, “We are who we pretend to be, so we must be careful about who we pretend to be.”

THESE women, they absolutely fall for alpha/machismo/RP stuff. They eat it right up all while protesting, “Haha, no way, only stupid women with low self esteem would ever fall for that.” You’ll even catch some of these women say things like, “I’m an alpha female, and need to be with a man who is stronger than me. If I can chew him up and spit him out, I’m just so turned off and not interested in him.” Again, this is true whether the girl is conservative or liberal. This transcends political ideology.

Here’s the thing. It’s going to sound very “meta.” When kids start developing their self-esteem, they’re very deferential and respectful, because they don’t know any better and are learning. When they’ve been beaten around with some experience, they have this sophomoric effect where now they “KNOW,” and either act jaded or what “APPEARS” to be egotistical and arrogant (but again, is just unresolved insecurities and self-esteem issues). Then, when someone is genuinely well-adjusted, genuinely 99.9999999% comfortable with themselves, has coped with life, etc., they’re deferential, quiet, low key and “nice” (easy going, not [TM]) again, but this time, because they’re just observing others.

When a woman is operating under a sophomoric defensive mechanism of a shell, she has no real emotional reference. It’s disjointed. All she has that’s solid is social script theory. She glues together stereotypes about men and “other” women and that’s her inner adult’s “personality.” That’s the only way her inner child can ever hope to find any kind of affection, attention or love from a man. She’s leading her interactions with men neither with her inner child nor her inner adult.

It reminds me of this hideous Jewish girl. Not even ugly. Beyond ugly. Just hideous. Her face was like the makeup and special effects team of Resident Evil was just given license to bring to life their pet project. She was obese. By some miracle, her community had found her a husband. With the “authority” of being a woman who found a husband, she began to “enlighten” guys and girls about “men.” A line just came out of her mouth that made me facepalm and roll my eyes. “Guys just want sex. So, why am I going to have sex with him? If he cares more about a relationship with you than sex, then he’ll wait.”

Now, we know whatever statement that was did NOT come from any kind of quality or quantity of personal experience of her and dealing with “men.” Yet, it still came out of her mouth with the kind of confidence and certainty of someone who had a PhD in male sexual behavior. And that’s how she operated her life. Emulating confidence and certainty for herself. Others may have confused it as either confidence, egotism, arrogance, etc. But that’s the difference between “action” and “motivation.” “What” someone does is not as important as “why” they do it.

The mental rule for me is, if a woman is leading with her inner PARENT, you can spot it a mile away. They don’t want a man who is leading with his inner ADULT, much less his inner CHILD. They can only relate with a man who is leading with his own inner PARENT. It’s no longer two real people interacting. It’s two defensive shells of social scripting software interacting, until the female determines, “Yes, this man is a very well put together software program replicating the ALPHA male,” and the spread leg protocol commences. RP doesn’t just WORK here, it’s a mandatory social script for relating to these kinds of people.

Women leading with their inner adult do NOT relate well with men leading with their inner PARENT, even a “nurturing” parent. But, they do relate with men leading with their inner CHILD (who they don’t really consider relationship material, but will entertain for fun/sex). These women DO genuinely relate best to men leading with their inner ADULT. Now, women are human. They are not immune to making mistakes. They are not immune to wishful thinking. They may date a man who fluctuates between his inner child, parent, and with what seems like hints of adult, in the hope that he eventually matured into operating with his inner adult. You know, dating an asshole thinking you’re going to be that one special woman who “changes him.” But I see those as one-offs. Even women recognize those were mistakes and don’t seek to repeat them. If RP works here, it’s by pure accident and circumstance. Momentary weakness and vulnerability because of life stress or regression as a defense mechanism.

Women leading with their inner CHILD, they’re open to anything. They like the thrill and high conflict between her and a controlling parent, especially if she’s an adaptive child. They like the older man / younger woman (or “little/daddy” or “kitty”) dynamic if the guy is a nurturing parent and she is a natural or creative free child. They also like a man that leads with his inner adult, especially if she’s a “little professor” child. Generally, however, women who still operate with their natural or creative “free” child prefer men who also operate with their inner CHILD. They are looking to explore their emotional and sexual world, literally like a child exploring a room full of new stuff. RP is a crap shoot here. You can run the hard machismo version of RP for thrill seekers. You can run the soft smooth version of RP for daddy seekers. Girls just want to have fun, and there are many flavors of fun. RP is just one of many flavors.

[–]Nodoxxintoxin0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m pretty blue, but I will disagree. A touch of abundance mentality is extremely attractive. “Kino” and “amused mastery” AKA flirting to normies is absolutely required. A touch of “negging” also known as playful flirting is can be fun banter and goes both ways. A touch. Same with dread.

I think the problem comes with the cultlike culture which doesn’t see that these concepts have nuance, and the misunderstanding of when, how and why to flirt.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Both dread and negging have always been described as being negative. Why would someone tolerate that?

[–]Nodoxxintoxin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Meh, a little teasing here and there. My husband and I banter like this all the time. When he does tries to tell me he’s going to find a younger woman, I tell him to let me know when he’s off to see her so I can leave the back door open for Tyrone. And then I tell him take his time coming home, Tyrone can last twice as long.

We have a normal loving relationship, a bit of teasing here and there is fun.

[–]Nobodykers0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Isn't that 50% of women?

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

1/4 women have a mental illness that is diagnosed by a mental doctor and being treated with prescription drugs. That's a big dating pool.

[–]f0e_pawRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So what you're saying is that it works on all women.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So all women then, good

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What are those people who don't identify as male but don't meet your criteria of woman?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Unicorns

[–]mericastradamus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Um there are studies that suggest social media gives the majority of people self-esteem issues, I dont think you'll like the implications if both are true.

[–]mrp_awakening0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It seems that some ideas are based on the idea that women's self worth and value is based on what kind of man they are with and especially on the idea that women consider their men as trophies. I thought about it when I heard a woman boasting about finally getting a tall guy with abs and she really seemed to think that someone would care.

Well, when you see it enough times, you internalize it. Women respond very differently to men based on how attractive they are. After changing myself (lifting and dieting) the difference in how women behave towards me is night and day.

Also the idea of negging seems pointless. If someone shows lessened interest or interest to date others then usually people withdraw and let others do as they please. Negging would only work on people whose self worth would suffer and who have a need to "show" others and "win" in relationships.

Negging is more for real high valued women (the 9's and 10's). It should typically be lighthearted, only about their looks, and directly followed with screening questions about their personality. The idea is that they're constantly being opened by lots of guys solely for their looks. If you do the same, you're just one of the same. Instead, what a neg does is say you're not valuing her for her looks, that you wouldn't care if you scare her off, that you've been with other attractive women before and she's nothing special, that you're not needy, and your followup question indicates that you're screening her and she has to win you. If you've done it right, it should really tell her "I see you're beautiful, but I'm not impressed only by that. What else do you have going for you". It flips the script and sub-communicates high value. It makes you stand out from the hundreds of guys simply fawning over her.

[–]reeearnakedchokereeeee0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It seems that some ideas are based on the idea that women's self worth and value is based on what kind of man they are with and especially on the idea that women consider their men as trophies. I thought about it when I heard a woman boasting about finally getting a tall guy with abs and she really seemed to think that someone would care.

People do care is the thing. I'm not really RP but I at least acknowledge that being masculine(sometimes in shitty ways, self destructive ways), being confident and assertive, shit like that is gonna get you more women than being authentically yourself. It's up to each man to decide whether that's worth it, and to what degree they'll take on the stuff that works.

Also the idea of negging seems pointless. If someone shows lessened interest or interest to date others then usually people withdraw and let others do as they please. Negging would only work on people whose self worth would suffer and who have a need to "show" others and "win" in relationships.

What you described isn't negging. Everyone negs. It's called flirting.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then why would negging have different term than flirting. Flirting would be positive and couraging (I imagine, never flirted myself)

[–]HottentotGeniusHippie Chadavius✊🏽0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

TRP is not a monolith. It's a loose ideology based on understanding human nature especially that of women.

A pimp or player may not identify as red pill but they have a great understanding and execution of its practices. Therefore they end up being extremely successful at getting what they want from women regardless of their individual levels of self esteem.

Compare this to general blue pill beliefs that sound nice in theory but do not stand up to to the test in real life.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Red pill isn't monolith but all women in the world are a throughly hideous hivemind. Ok then...

[–]HottentotGeniusHippie Chadavius✊🏽0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP never says anything about women being a hive mind. It just says that the vast majority of women share a common nature

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

so all of them?

[–]SouthernOhioRedsFan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

. . . So all women?

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Much of the stupid bits of red pill are only gonna work on women with low self-esteem - negging, dread. However, the normal parts - get in shape and be more fun, less outcome dependent, draws more than just the damaged women.

[–]jkonrad-Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

RP principles “work” on all girls, it’s just that RP men are usually only interested in promiscuous girls.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is a common trope that gets put out by bloopers but fact is it works on all women, awalt after all. The girls the red pill has gotten me have been doctors, lawyers, college cheerleaders, college dance team members, former models, business professionals, former college athletes, atheists, Christians, and vocal feminists.

Hate to break this to you but all women are truly like that.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ok, if I believe that all women are like that, then what am I? If I'm not a real woman, but don't identify as man, am I a personless being? You are gatekeeping gender.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No. If I wanted to court you I could. Odds are I wouldn’t want to though

[–]badger1337 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

I don't like that cult around the red pill, but it literally works on ALL WOMEN, even those with very high self esteem and even on those aware of all that shit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah i agree. This is why even smart people can be charmed and won over by the same simple set of tricks over and over. Knowledge of the other persons social strategy does not equate to immunity; humans are ultimately social creatures driven by our instincts to like certain kinds of people even if we know its at least partly a performance. By the time you like somebody, part of you wants to like them more.

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Ok, but what are the people that don't identify as male but do not respond to red pill?

[–] points  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]arcticshqip[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So most women are not human... that just confirms my theory that woman means only insecure, neurotic and beauty obsessed women to red pill theorists.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dead people.

[–]Zaphodisacoolname0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Red pill theories don't work at all.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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