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CMVCMV: Most men severely underestimate the work women do in terms of working out/diet to just "not be fat". (self.PurplePillDebate)

submitted by PlainSlim

Young professional social life revolves around going out for food/drinks. An average restaurant meal is over 1000 calories, plus a drink or two. Most restaurants don't give nutrition information, and these days even salads are dangerously loaded with calories, so you can't even just make the healthy choice and be sure what you're eating is truly healthy. This isn't kind to a guy's diet, but for an average height slim woman this is pretty much all she can eat for the day. Then think about college, where the average social life includes 2-3 nights of heavy drinking... you basically barely eat on drinking days if you want to maintain a slim figure. It's either starve yourself all day, spend hours doing cardio, or severely limit your social life.

Get close enough to any skinny woman (even those that are supposedly 'naturally' skinny) and you will learn that they probably spent a period of their life dealing with at least borderline disordered eating/exercise habits.

Women who are "just not fat" are typically making most of their meals, eating mostly nutritious food, working out 4+ times a week, barely eating out. And side note... try running on the treadmill on a limited number of calories. Running is already hard, now you have to do it while you feel like garbage and you are slightly lightheaded :D.

And then here you see guys just talk like it's a given. "Just don't be fat" and dudes will be falling all over you. "Just don't be fat" and you are automatically 7+/10. Yeah no problem, we're just living in a world where serving sizes cater to a 6 foot overweight dude, and we're supposed to maintain a 1600 calorie diet. Yes it can be done but it's not quite as easy as "just don't be fat".


[–]Sksjdbdbdjjfn 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Lol. Your core argument is "it's hard having to eat out at restaurants for my social life"?

Ahahahahahaha

[–]LeaneGenovaBreaker of (comment) Chains[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Remember that top-level comments to CMV posts must attempt to challenge the OP's view. This does not do that. Please post under automod.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My bad 👍

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man90 points91 points  (45 children) | Copy Link

women can have a significantly higher body fat percentage than men and still be considered attractive.

whatever social pressure there is on women to eat/drink unhealthily, it's even more for men. bros are always wanting to go out and get pizza and drink a lot of brewskis. a chick can go out with her girlfriends and get a salad and vodka soda and no one will care (other than normal female cattiness). when a dude does that, he will probably get shit for it and maybe earn a nickname that questions his masculinity

whining about how restricting calories has more of an effect on a smaller woman is bullshit too. a large man can eat more calories and maintain/reduce weight than a small woman, but that's because he is burns more calories. when men are trying to cut weight fast, they feel weak and all that stuff too.

typical American portion sizes are wayyyy too big for almost anyone who isn't a top-level athlete to eat 3 huge meals every day.

when men tell women "just don't be fat" they're pointing out that that's really all a woman needs to do to be successful in the sexual/romantic marketplaces. men pretty much only care about your looks, no one cares about your career ambitions or where you went to school or any of that.

men also need to not be fat if they want to be successful on the marketplaces.....and they need to have good social status and be confident and smooth and charming and have good career potential and be interesting and exciting and show enough interest in a girl but not too much interest and a million other things that women care about.

[–]PlainSlim[S] 37 points38 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Honestly I like this post - this is probably the post that comes closest to changing my view. There's a lot I didn't think about here.

I agree that there's more common for dudes to get pressured into eating unhealthy shit. And I also never thought about "just don't be fat" in that way... that it's "just" because women don't have to do much else to be attractive, as opposed to "just" because it's easy. I do agree that guys typically have to check a lot more boxes to be considered attractive by women.

I do still believe that it's a challenge for women to stay skinny. And I also think it's much more common for women to try to exist at a BF% below what they 'should' be. Biologically... women are supposed to have some fat. It's not in style though, so we fight it. I don't think a lot of guys outside of body builders have attempted to exist long term at a BF% below what they should be, so I think guys don't understand how much of a challenge that can be.

[–]LaughingGaster666Purple Pill Man23 points24 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

^ The rare occurrence of an exchange of ideas in a productive discussion on Reddit in which multiple parties learn something.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And I was here to witness

[–]dontdoitpleaseno3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And there's usually a cringey comment like yours following it.

(Order immediately restored)

[–]bonusfruit6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's a challenge, but it's the only challenge. That's the point of don't be fat. For guys its don't be fat, short, poor, socially weird, bald, ugly, submissive, or boring.

[–]andipandey4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you are overstating the effort it takes to not be fat. It’s a lot of effort to be 12% BF for a woman or to maintain a super flat stomach and bubble butt at all times. But to maintain a healthy, thin weight really isn’t difficult.

Stick to healthy portion sizes and eat clean. Exercise is just like a bonus at that point. And when you go out, you can eat but you don’t need to eat the whole portion — take some to go. Don’t drink 3 nights a week if the calories are a problem; that’s pretty simple. I was bedridden for a year with health issues and didn’t gain a single pound despite no exercise because I changed how I ate. I didn’t massively restrict my calories, just ate more filling low cal foods. Instead of chips, it was carrots and hummus. Instead of pasta, I made salmon and asparagus. Salads were topped with citrus instead of heavy dressings. And after a month or two it doesn’t even feel like a challenge, just a healthy life change that your body now craves.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I do still believe that it's a challenge for women to stay skinny.

It is to everybody, my friend, it is a hard task for everybody.

And I also think it's much more common for women to try to exist at a BF% below what they 'should' be.

Some people overtake the concept of "healthy" and just get another kind of sickness.

I don't think a lot of guys outside of body builders have attempted to exist long term at a BF% below what they should be, so I think guys don't understand how much of a challenge that can be.

Although it is true that there are way less men who know how it is hard to lose weight... outside of female body builders, almost no women understand how much of a challenge is to have higher muscle mass.

There are as much men who think they need to get thinner as there are men who think they have to be more muscular, you seen to have forgotten this part of selection bias.

You see, TRP says that men's major attraction factors are Looks, wealth, status, power and masculinity, 2 of those are pushing for bigger muscles... so you take it as you will.

[–]zerotakashi1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lesbians generally look scruffy while gay guys tend to be very fashionable (based on driving through various cities with gay pride flags). Generally, women get skinny only for men. It's good for health anyhow, but women pretty much don't have a chance otherwise. Men can be fat and still be considered attractive because women are less about asthetic.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It really isn't that hard. I do it and it just becomes a habit. Eventually u don't need to know the calories u have a good feel for how much is in certain meals. Also cheat days are fine as long as u don't make it a habit.

Also I trained my mom who is in her 40s and she has gotten very fit with low bf%. She also goes out with her girlfriends a lot. It gets harder as u get older.

I don't really think there is a good excuse for being fat except medical issues. I dunno I told my GF I work, go to school and maintain great shape. All u gotta do is stay skinny and we are good.

Unlike my mom she doesn't work out all she does is watch how much she eats.

Also getting shredded is much harder then getting skinny. Which usually what guys are after.

[–]delayed_reign0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is easy though, people just have no self control (or don’t care). Everyone I’ve ever met who is overweight simply eats way too much. Yes serving sizes are big but that’s really no excuse, you shouldn’t be eating out enough for that to matter. Even if you do, you can eat the main item and decide not to stuff your face with the French fries or other sides that come with it. And the sodas....Jesus.

It’s funny that you’re trying to “counter” the other post about working out, but you’re essentially complaining that in order to meet your standards you have to do nothing. Stop pigging out for once in your life and you’re done. As opposed to working out which is something you have to go out of your way to do.

Jfc. Perfect example of how spoiled women are. “It’s too hard!”

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat9 points10 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

when men tell women "just don't be fat" they're pointing out that that's really all a woman needs to do to be successful in the sexual/romantic marketplaces.

I disagree on that for a reason unrelated to fatness. I think it severely understates the importance of presentation (in all fairness, guys kind of do this regarding their own attractiveness too). I've known plenty of skinny women who had trouble getting dates--their hair was unkempt and/or cut short, they wore cargo shorts and t-shirts, they didn't use cosmetics, they had glasses that were unflattering. Many were non-NT. "Just not being fat" does not an attractive woman make--if you're not naturally inclined to present femme, that's work and can even be confusing. Honestly, purely observationally, a fat girl with fashionable clothes and hair/makeup will have a better time on the dating market than a skinny schlubby girl.

[–]concacanca2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Agree with this. I do think it's harder for men to get the type of body that women find attractive (not just acceptable) but there is an awful lot of disregard for the much higher effort that goes into clothes and makeup (arguably hair but that's contentious).

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I do think it's harder for men to get the type of body that women find attractive (not just acceptable)

That's fair, although as a woman, I'm not really sure how important it is for a man's body to be hotter than "acceptable". Men's clothes hide most figure imperfections (caveat that I live in a cool climate), and being well-dressed can do so much for an otherwise-acceptable man beyond merely hiding flaws.

(side note that all this talk of abs makes me wonder if these guys all live in hot climates? You don't, where I am, know if a guy has abs or not until you're taking off his clothes, even arms are generally covered, at which point surely you're already attracted to him)

[–]concacanca1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's part of the looksmax conversation really. There is probably a bigger difference for men between acceptable and attractive than there is for women (where hair and makeup probably plays more of a role).

I also think that you can conceal a bad figure with clothes but part of being generally aesthetic probably does mean having the right sort of body to reveal l, not just conceal. You are right about th climate to an extent but tight clothes are in fashion all year round.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

men pretty much only care about your looks, no one cares about your career ambitions or where you went to school or any of that.

Why do you keep repeating this bullshit? Cui bono?

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

because it's true. only low value poor men and betas are interested in a woman's career/income.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

betas

So most men then?

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

yes, the bottom 80% that women don't want

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can empathise with this. Every time I go out with friends we're either doing super intense shit that burns a thousand calories or we're eating three times that in unhealthy food. I'm also super guilty of roasting a buddy who goes out of his way to eat healthy while out. Though mostly in a humor sense since I'm no stranger to skipping meals while out.

I've also spent the last week in a ridiculous state of weakness where even now I'm only lifting like 75% of what I usually do thanks to botching some post workout recovery.

[–]Cho_AssmilkArrogant RP S.O.B.0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I drank like a bafoon last weekend on a guys camping trip. Like started drinking friday at 2 and didn't stop till I drank the last 2 beer in my cooler on Sunday morning cause I was hurting so bad. At 34 y/o, I'm just too old for that shit now. Took me till today to feel 100% again. I think those days are done for me from here on out.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is true a woman can be heavyset and be called a BBW a big beautiful woman in fact there’s a huge fetish for it

A heavyset man is a fat pig women don’t like fat guys and they are the butt of jokes it’s fucking sad the double standard

I know because I am one and I’ve struggled with weight all my wife in the amount of overweight women who demand athletic man or skinny man is in the multitudes

[–]zerotakashi0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

"men also need to not be fat ...to have good social status and be confident and smooth and charming and have good career potential and be interesting and exciting and show enough interest in a girl but not too much interest and a million other things that women care about"

I want you to be yourself, not to act out like a guy. I was with a guy once who wanted to 'act' redpill, and it only harmed me because he was so distant. I am very resentful of him now and only attribute this to his insecurity in expressing emotions despite how much I encouraged it. He just completely disregarded me as a woman by attributing my emotions to that.

He's a total piece of shit. I'll find a guy who actually cares about me elsewhere.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

just be yourself!

yeah we've all heard that bullshit a million times.

[–]zerotakashi0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I need people who are emotionally open. The only reason you resort to redpill is because it has some universally good qualities, but you adopt teh bad ones like being emotionally shut off, even if it hurts other people like me who actually need an emotional partner. It's redpill mentality that has hurt me and prevents happiness between some people I know. Fuck redpill! Take the fitness and career advice, but why go against emotional vulnerability? It's because you're afraid of being hurt and won't cope with it in a healthy way, so you hurt others instead - intentional or not. Lesbians don't care about asthetic or how someone comes off - it's all relationships. It's the gay guys who are fashionable. It's just how women vs. men work, but redpill is too extreme.

[–]LLL3peat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, this. Otherwise women I dated always asked for half the meal served, half in a to go container for when we left the restaurant. There are ways around it but people want to be victims at all times

[–]aimlesssouls 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

I think womens metabolisms are just slower or decrease more rapidly than men. They also put on weight easier because evolutionarily, more fat is more protection for the baby. Almost all the women I know who are skinny have some sort of eating disorder. I do agree that men work out more women, so maybe effort is a large contributor. However, I think it's much harder for women to remain the same weight throughout her 20s to 30s, especially after giving birth.

[–]ITooHaveThumbsMulticolored Pill Alchemist51 points52 points  (46 children) | Copy Link

This is dumb. Men gotta do ALL of this AND lift 5 days a week and consume 200+ grams of lean protein a day (that's 4 large chicken breasts) in order to have abs AND be bulit. It is literally 3-4 x the work to be lean muscular than just 'not fat'. Cry me a fucking river.

[–]zerotakashi1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I lifted a lot as a female. I prefer skinny, modelesque and endurance runner builds now. I agree that lifting just takes way too much time, and it only produces meathead culture that I don't like. Also, guys would yell "ASS" at me...

And I want to say that I much prefer to eat more and work out than to learn to eat less. It's a push vs. relax type of effort, and for aggressive people like me, it's very hard to not work out as much while I'm trying to get slim instead of lean. Working out turns my fat to muscle pretty easily.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, due to their relative mass, hormones and insulin sensitivity. Most women will eat less calories than most men. And you can fix all of this with IF, extended fasting, keto and carnivore.

I hope my wife isn't pissed she's got the emotional burden of eating less food because she doesn't have to move the amount of weight I do.

Hell, my bench press is more than she weighs. Should I be upset about that shit?

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot1 point2 points  (40 children) | Copy Link

This is not my experience with the fit guys I've dated

[–]Jaeger__852 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Were they using steroids?

[–]ThatGamer7072 points3 points  (37 children) | Copy Link

Then you haven't dated fit guys. Abs isn't enough to be fit. He exaggerated a bit but it is pretty spot on.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot2 points3 points  (36 children) | Copy Link

spot on for ppl with inferior genetics maybe

[–]ThatGamer7073 points4 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

Nah just for anyone in shape. I am in better shape than any guy you have ever dated. Literally, have done fitness modeling so yeah ur just wrong.

If you know so much about fitness though lets compare pics of our bodies?

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot1 point2 points  (33 children) | Copy Link

lmao ew

at 185 lbs and 6'1", no, you're not. you're skin and bones lol

[–]KonniBOIConfused Danish Manlet (18/5'9)5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

185lbs

Is 6'1

Is "skin and bones"

I dunno, his BMI comes out to 24, meaning he is of average and healthy weight (average weight is from 18 to 25) - so not really "skin and bones" by any metric - but given that he said he's into fitness, it wouldn't surprise me if him being on the higher end of average weight spectrum would be due to the muscular build he has.

In any case, he's definitely not skinny, more likely he's well-built and healthy.

[–]ThatGamer7073 points4 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

Also if you think 185 at 6'1" is skinny you must be dating some fat dudes there is a limit to how much muscle someone can build naturally after that it is all fat. Not surprised though based on what you said about them.

https://www.builtlean.com/2011/03/30/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain-naturally/

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot1 point2 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

there's nothing wrong with being a slender wisp of a thing bb. relax. im just LOLing at u acting like ur this ripped dude when you weigh like one of my last man's thighs

the fact that u want to measure bodies against a GIRL as if were competing for the same aesthetic says enough

[–]ThatGamer7074 points5 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

Then ur man is a fatass.

the fact that u want to measure bodies against a GIRL as if were competing for the same aesthetic says enough

Actually, it says more that you won't. You are probably just a fatass that is embarrassed to post a picture. You talk tough but that is all you can do. If you were not fat you would post a picture just to shut me up. The fact that you won't says enough.

We are talking about fitness here. You can tell if a guy or a girl is fit from the pictures. Again if you are confident agree to compare pics. Unless you know I am right, I am in better shape and you are fat...

Shit talking and pretending otherwise won't fool anyone. If you really believe in what you say then prove it...

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

yeah if u were not fat you'd send nudes. @kandyapplez ;) /s

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

200+ lean is definitely major steroids at around that 6'1" area.

[–]askmrcia1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

185lbs at 6'1 is not skinny. That's the size of an NFL wr or cornerback.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

haha sure I am... If you believe that then lets post some pics and let me see how superior your genetics are compared to mine. Post a pic with ur username in it or link ur instagram or something.

Why talk shit when we can let the pictures do the talking?

[–]zerotakashi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

tell me about it. Just lift at some point and then size is just maintenance.

I'm a female and I always have some kind of muscle definition in my legs and abs.

[–]firewatchersdaughter1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Have you ever had a cast? If so were you surprised at the level of muscle atrophy that occurred when it was removed? It’s astoundingly fast. Three weeks, and your leg looks like you just walked out of a concentration camp. You can’t even walk! Really! You don’t have the strength to fucking walk in just three weeks! So if you are super built, you HAVE to keep exercising with the same level of endurance just to maintain the same muscle mass. That’s not an opinion. That’s just science. So I don’t believe you when you say that’s not what you experienced. You probably just weren’t in the picture when they worked out.

[–]erykaWaltz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah back when i was just dieting to have as little body weight as possible, i just had to keep track of my kcal and make sure i burn more then i consume

now that i also want to have muscles, i need to also count my daily protein intake.

so thats why a lot of people put on weight while bulding muscles, they know they have to consume a lot of protein but they also cant control their candy-craving and soda drinking habits. so they end up consuming waaay too much calories then they should.

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

consume 200+ grams of lean protein a day (that's 4 large chicken breasts)

Wat... how large?

[–]UncleEskel53 points54 points  (55 children) | Copy Link

Not overeating is not a monumental task. You’re not required to clean your plate; stop eating when you’re no longer hungry.

As somebody who used to be fat and is now in great shape, it’s really as simple as exercising a sliver of self control to not be fat. Getting shredded is another story, but not being fat? Just be an adult about it.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian15 points16 points  (53 children) | Copy Link

Are you a dude?

Because the average male has almost double the TDEE of the average woman, due to testosterone and muscle mass.

[–]xKalistoSAHM of Yurop17 points18 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

I'm average woman with TDEE of 1800. I just don't overeat. I don't think I eat super little and I don't go hungry.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian9 points10 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/

For a 30 year old woman who's 5' 5" and trying to maintain < 130lbs needs to stay under 1500 kcals a day. Try again.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

You could survive without eating for two or three days or longer depending on your weight. We eat way more than our ancestors did. Food wasn't always easy to come by so people would go hungry for days at a time. There are still plenty of people who go to bed hungry and survive.

That intense hunger you feel goes away if you ween yourself off sugar and carbs, or limit yourself to one meal a day. Unless you are an athlete in training, eating three or more times a day is a bad idea if you want to keep your weight down. Unless, of course, you're content to live on lentil soup, rice cakes and tiny portions.

Portion control, intermittent fasting and lots of coffee water will help with weight loss if you cannot exercise. This requires far less effort than going to the gym and it could save on your food bill. You could literally sit on your ass and not get fat by not devouring everything in your kitchen. Very different to spending hours weekly trying to improve your physique by lifting heavy weights

[–]Nobodykers2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Only 1 meal a day is harsh. But its true that eating little for a few days will make you feel less hungry after a while. Only drinking water as refreshment also helps

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Start with a 16 hour fast between your last and next meal and see how it goes. Then work your way up to 20-24 hours. Once you know how your worst hunger feels, which is more like your body going cold turkey from carbs and sugar, you get used to it and don't fear it.

Then try to fast for a day and a half, two days etc. You lose weight, save money and you age slower too! Mastering your hunger and resisting a potential food addiction is very possible.

[–]CidCrisisPurple Soup10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Fucking so much this. As someone who often practices Intermittent Fasting, and who occasionally straight up water fasts for up to three weeks, it's not that goddamn hard. Yeah, you're hungry at first, but that's because you're so used to, both socially and biologically, constantly stuffing your face.

You will not fucking starve if you don't eat every 3 goddamn hours. Not eating just requires you not to fucking eat. Keeping a steady workout regiment requires an active commitment to staying in shape. Fasting doesn't.

[–]pizza_tron2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm thinking of doing a 10 day water fast. Any tips for someone who hasn't done one before?

[–]CidCrisisPurple Soup2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Salt and/or a multivitamin. I tend to go with the second. You can do a "pure" fast with just water. But cramps from lack of sodium can become an issue. I didn't get them when I was younger, but yeah. It's a thing.

Idk how many calories exactly are in a multivitamin but it's not significant anyway.

[–]mcgruntman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You could survive without eating for two or three days or longer

It's far far longer than that. Severely obese people can safely fast for over a year, just talking water and multivitamins.

[–]erykaWaltz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

one of the best ideas that worked for me, when you live alone, is to have your kitchen or fridge empty and buying only the things you want to eat imminently. helps if you live in a city.

i guess it would be harder if you live with other people tho

[–]xKalistoSAHM of Yurop7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm 27, 5'4" 135 lbs, pretty slim and even your calculator is giving me TDEE of 1600.

And before baby I was 127 lbs, and I never suffered from hunger or had to go through some crazy loops to maintain.

Edit: Ye I get 1300 when I pick my activity as PARALYSED.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

and trying to maintain < 130lbs

  1. Gain some muscle mass.
  2. Now you can eat more.
  3. Profit!

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If she's totally sedentary.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Are you a dude?

Typcially, my warm up reps for squats and deadlifts is about my wife's body weight. If she's upset she's got to watch her calories more than I, can I be upset I've got a fuck ton more weight to lift in the gym...on top of watching my intake just like her?

I've gone 12 days in extended fasting. My wife can't even get to 72 hours.

try running on the treadmill on a limited number of calories.

So when op said this, I find this...odd. Just this week, Monday through Thursday I fasted AND worked a PPL routine at 4:15 a.m. Men got more work to do due to mass.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

And? I never said men didn't have to do work. Feel free to quote me saying that if you want to try and prove me wrong.

I'm saying that women have their own difficulties, just of a different flavor, and deluding yourself to thinking they have it easy because they don't have the exact same struggles you do is asinine.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Are you a chick?

Because the average woman has almost have the TDEE of the average male, due to estrogen and lack of muscle mass.

So what I'm saying is that men have their own difficulties, just of a different flavor, and deluding yourself to thinking they have it easy because they don't have the exact same struggles you do is asinine.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

My dick's bigger then yours Aren.

I'm 6' and decently muscled. The TDEE requirements being so much lower is my point.

Due to calorie density of food nowadays being so high on average, my point is that women have to eat a lot less, and therefore less often. Which means hungry more often. Which is taxing.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My dick's bigger then yours Aren.

Well alright bro, lets whip our shit out and get the party started.

Which is taxing.

There are a ton of different things women can bring up before "eating less" when it comes to the difficulty of being women.

[–]mdemmers0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Needing less food=less hungry

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And woman don’t require near as much food. Seriously a salad and like 1/3 a chicken breast is all they need for lunch

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Because the average male has almost double the TDEE of the average woman

The gap is not that huge.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian1 point2 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Average Female TDEE is 1200-1600

Average Male TDEE is 2200-3000

Yes it absolutely is.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Average Female TDEE is 1200-1600

Well, something like this.

Average Male TDEE is 2200-3000

I tried the following parameters: 30yo 175cm 70kg male. It shows below 2000 kcal.

Of course, if we adjust to overweight American average, both numbers will be greater.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, it really depends on the person. Everyone has different needs and those calculators are only a starting point. Hell, you burn different amounts of calories based on what you eat. That doesn't even take into account a multitude of other factors.

[–]Actuallyconsistent103 points104 points  (149 children) | Copy Link

And then here you see guys just talk like it's a given. "Just don't be fat" and dudes will be falling all over you. "Just don't be fat" and you are automatically 7+/10. Yeah no problem, we're just living in a world where serving sizes cater to a 6 foot overweight dude, and we're supposed to maintain a 1600 calorie diet.

This is literally hilarious. You're blaming how much you eat on the goddamn serving sizes.

I can't believe the lengths people will go though in order to blame other people and not take personal responsibility. The hamster is real.

Being a victim needs to stop being praised.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat32 points33 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

She's not blaming anyone or anything--she's pointing out that it's work.

If a guy here said "it is difficult to stay in shape, because I work long hours at a sedentary job, so I have to either get up very early to have time to exercise and shower, or forgo socializing in the evenings in favor of working out" everyone would go "yes, that makes sense, that is a difficult thing" instead of saying "you wimp! you're blaming your boss for the fact that you need to work out!"

She says "to maintain my figure, I need to do at the very least back-of-the-envelope calculations every time I have a meal with friends, then divvy the food into a reasonable amount, while still trying to be sociable. This is often tiring and unpleasant, and can be very challenging if I don't have accurate nutritional information about the food" and suddenly everyone freaks out, because nobody likes to admit that attractive women work for it, and don't just rise from the sea like Venus.

[–]Actuallyconsistent9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I disagree. She was directly comparing to to the men who say "women just have to eat well, men have to eat well and build muscle"

She, in classic "I'm the real victim" fashion, is saying that those men are wrong, and that it's actually significantly harder for women to eat well than it is for men to eat well.

And one example she gave was other people giving her too much food. That's blame. Also absurd.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

OP doesn't say a damn word about building muscle. Not one word. The entire post is about the effort expended by slim women to remain slim, and how men often underestimate that this is work. I know this sub and reddit in general is obsessed with lifting and muscle, but don't project that onto other people.

She didn't say anything about being a "victim," she was talking about the work. And one example she gave was having to account for large restaurant portions designed to cater to people who need/can take more calories and do the math on them if you want to go out. That's not blame, it's a task.

[–]PlainSlim[S] 18 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I actually specifically made a point not to compare to what guys have to do, because I think it's hard to compare.

I do believe that a dude getting body builder lean/muscular is harder than a woman keeping a slim physique. But at the same time, I don't think many men get that lean. If they have, then yes, they understand what women do because they have gone through a cut to reach a BF% that is below what their body sits at comfortably.

I think it's much more common for a woman to attempt to exist at a BF% below what her body wants to be at. Based upon conversations I have with my guy and girl friends, it seems a lot of guys can work out semi regularly, watch their diet, and stay relatively healthy, and it's not that much of a challenge. But for my girl friends who are skinny, it's a constant diet, getting used to regular restriction. That's why I say MOST guys don't understand what a typical slim woman goes through to stay in shape.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is often tiring and unpleasant,

Okay but there are lots of tiring and unpleasant things we have to do in life, and this is very far down the hierarchy. Men aren't under-estimating anything.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman15 points16 points  (75 children) | Copy Link

You don't get that 1200 Cals leaves 0 wiggle room for error. You could eat half your portion and still be eating 600 cals

[–]Five_DecadesKnows what women want. Knows he doesn't have it8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Weight loss is harder for women. Both because of their lower caloric intake they can't run deficits as large but also because female sex hormones tend to cause weight gain while make sex hormones cause weight loss.

Having said that, most people in the real world are fat and out of shape. It's just the way things are. I'm not sure where all these women who are successfully dieting are. After the age of 30 a woman (or man) on shape becomes the exception by far rather than the rule.

Even most skinny people look like shit. Either they're skinny fat, or have crepey skin, or no muscle tone or something else.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I hope I'm successful. I want to be hawt yo.

[–]couldbemage1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But men are fatter than women, on average.

[–]zerotakashi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

oh yes. This is true.

[–]Actuallyconsistent8 points9 points  (68 children) | Copy Link

Who eats 1200 calories a day? That's the natural burning of calories for like an 60 year old 100 lb grandma

Regardless, I know dieting is difficult. No one said it isn't. But to act like it's super hard for women because of serving sizes is just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.14 points15 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

There's a whole sub for it. /r/1200isplenty.

I consider myself "lucky" cause I'm female and 5'10 with substantial muscle mass so my TDE is more in the 1500+ range, and I'm still a bit on the fluffy side of things cause 1500 is hard enough to keep track of. Even if I'm trying to cut, that keeps me at only 1400 consistently.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

I think 1200 kcal is only to lose some weight, not to sustain it (which you should do once you are slim enough).

TDE is more in the 1500 range

Are you in your 40s with 50kg body mass?

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.10 points11 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

No. I'm 30, 177cm, and about 75-80kg.

But that's what it would take for me to be slim and sustain it, given that I'm more on the endothermic side of things. Guys simply don't understand that.

Calculators try to put me at 1900 but when I eat like that practicing CICO, I gain weight. The truth is women simply have to eat much less to maintain a slim build than guys imagine.

[–]Ofourkind10 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I have been on 1300 for over a decade. I'm 40, very active, and just under 5ft tall. I am 103lbs and toned, not underweight.

[–]Actuallyconsistent4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

That makes sense honestly. I would think you realize you're not the norm though.

[–]Ofourkind2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right, if I was a normal height it would be even easier to stay on target with my calories

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yet there are lots of girls who are 5' or smaller. It's not like we're freaks of nature ffs.

[–]Actuallyconsistent1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not at all. Being not the norm isn't the same as being freaks. You made that connection for some reason

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

OK but as a woman who is 4'11 this post resonates w/ me because its true. There is LEGITIMATE work involved to lose weight and not be fat.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

If you're a woman under 5' 5" and not an athlete, 1200 is your standard caloric limit. That's not just for old, frail women. That's just women who are done with puberty.

[–]Actuallyconsistent2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Not according to the bmr formula

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/bmr-formula.php

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

These formulas overestimate the maintenance level for LEAN people, male or female.

[–]Actuallyconsistent1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Those formulas usually tend to overestimate lean people. . .it takes average bodyfat%, muscle takes more calories to maintain than fat

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most formulas don't use body fat %, but rather height/weight/gender.

The bodyfat ones are terrible because most people have shit ways to estimate bodyfat.

Lean people don't necessarily have more muscle. Maintenance levels drop for people who are losing fat WHILE preserving muscle. It's a hormone and efficiency thing, not body composition directly per se.

[–]Actuallyconsistent0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lean literally means lower bodyfat percentage haha. I think you were talking about skinny. If you are, you're right

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess I'm talking about both as they tend to go hand in hand. It's an issue of how much fat you're carrying.

[–]LovingLivingLargehere for a good time, not for a long time16 points17 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Who eats 1200 calories a day?

you've been arguing like a smugmug that needs smacking through this whole thread and THIS is where you've arrived?!?

Women who don't want to be FAT and struggle to keep it down eat 1200 calories a day. Thanks for finally coming around to see it even though your nose had to be shoved into it.

[–]LeaneGenovaBreaker of (comment) Chains7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do. That's my TDEE when I'm not working out. I basically can eat one filling meal a day and a few low calories snacks.

I'm 5'2 and 115 pounds. It's hella difficult to stay at that weight, lemme tell you.

[–]philomexaSPITE ALONE HOLDS ME ALOFT18 points19 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Who eats 1200 calories a day

Me, because I'm a 5'3" 120 lbs woman that needs to offset living in America where a night out is 2000+ calories.

[–]Actuallyconsistent9 points10 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Right, so you eat less to compensate for eating more on other days. That's not 1200 calories a day. . .

[–]philomexaSPITE ALONE HOLDS ME ALOFT9 points10 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

I go out about twice a month; once with my mother and then a night out to see my husband's band. Both of those days are 2000+ cal boozy carb binges. The remaining days of the month I'm eating about 1200 cals a day just to maintain my weight. I do an hour of yoga a day and walk a minimum 2 miles. I used to lift weights which gave me a calorie allowance of 1400 cals a day. wooooooow what a spluge. 🙄

[–]Actuallyconsistent4 points5 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Are you like sub 100 lbs? Or in your 50s? If not you have a fabulously slow metabolism or you're miscounting calories

[–]philomexaSPITE ALONE HOLDS ME ALOFT11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Taking the average of 5 calculators with my stats (5'3" 120lbs 34 years old) and set to "lightly active" my BMR is 1264. My activity burns roughly 185 calories. I aim for 1200 calories a day because the incidentals (oil used in cooking, sneaky sauces, 20% variance on food label, imperfect measurements, etc) can easily negate my physical activity input, and I'm not dragging a tupperware container of plain chicken breast plus a food scale with me wherever I go.

And so this is how I've maintain my weight for a majority of my adult life, by restricting myself to eating like a fucking 85 year old woman in a coma.

[–]Actuallyconsistent0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Taking the average of 5 calculators with my stats (5'3" 120lbs 34 years old) and set to "lightly active" my BMR is 1264

I'd be interested in what you use. I may have been wrong in what I've read in the past, but I've never seen something close to that low.

[–]lurflyDevil's Advocate3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most calculations I've done have me eating less than 1200 (very sedentary lifestyle unfortunately) but its usually recommended that you don't go lower than 1200 to ensure adequate nutrition.

[–]SmurfESmurferson18 points19 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

That's not how women's bodies work. I run literal marathons, and at the height of my training - running 40+ miles a week, with a long run of 20+ miles - I'm still eating less than 2000 calories to maintain. A bit over 1900

Our bodies have more fat than men's, and our reproductive hormones want us to carry some fat. It's a fight

[–]LovingLivingLargehere for a good time, not for a long time3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

it couldnt be that 1200 cal diets ARE WHAT IT TAKES, no no, you must be miscounting?

Again, you have not changed the view of this OP, have you? You have only confirmed.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm 4'11 so if I want to lose 1 lb a week technically I need to eat 1000 a day.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

1300 calories is what I ate when I cut down fat. 1800 real maintenance for me for maintaining a very lean look. I'm 5'11 male.

[–]zerotakashi0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

eating takeout = so much oil. Probably 1.5 days worth of cals for me.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right.

[–]allweknowisD18 points19 points  (48 children) | Copy Link

She’s pointing out a gender data gap.

It’s hardly blaming anyone, she’s just stating that this is how things are because the world is catered to men in more ways than you even realise.

Even the calorie counters on different equipment at the gym ie treadmills etc are designed as if you’re a 6ft and so many lbs man.

[–]Actuallyconsistent6 points7 points  (31 children) | Copy Link

ie treadmills etc are designed as if you’re a 6ft and so many lbs man

It's impossible to accurately measure things like calories burned just from the spinning of a treadmill. It's more of a baseline saying "this is burning more calories" "this is burning less"

She’s pointing out a gender data gap.

It’s hardly blaming anyone, she’s just stating that this is how things are because the world is catered to men in more ways than you even realise.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're saying that because restaurants (in the us at least) give more food than one should generally eat in a sitting, that this is a bad thing, and something that is made for the benefit of men. It's absurd. There isn't a gender data gap.

They give the amount of food that would most likely fill the biggest of eaters that come to their restaurant. If you think there is too much food, you could easily not eat it. Or take it home! And you get a free meal!

Why is that not a gender gap? That men require more food and therefore have to pay more money to eat?

[–]FlyingResearcher6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's impossible to accurately measure things like calories burned just from the spinning of a treadmill. It's more of a baseline saying "this is burning more calories" "this is burning less"

For anybody who's curious and doesn't want to spend 5 minutes on Google, the standard that workout machines use is roughly in between the average for men and women, meaning it overestimates how many calories are burned for women, and underestimates how many are burned for men.

The latest standards can be found here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10993420

[–]allweknowisD5 points6 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

A baseline with the stats of a 6ft and so many pounds man. That is the point. It’s designed around that man.

Where did I say it’s a bad thing? Don’t put words in my mouth. She’s just pointing out that it’s a thing.

Have a read at “invisible women: exposing data bias by Caroline Perez and then tell me theres no such thing as a gender data gap.

[–]Actuallyconsistent4 points5 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

Have a read at “invisible women: exposing data bias by Caroline Perez and then tell me theres no such thing as a gender data gap.

I guarantee it never talks about the disadvantages men have. Like having to pay more for food. Which you completely ignored.

A baseline with the stats of a 6ft and so many pounds man. That is the point. It’s designed around that man.

There is no way to measure the calories burned. So they take the average person (Id love to see where you came up with 6' tall man) and estimate the calories burned. But that's accurate for literally no one. It's an estimated gauge.

It's not accurate for me either. So it's not accurate for you, and it's not accurate for me, but somehow you're arguing that I have an advantage because I'm male? Do you see how ridiculous that is?

[–]allweknowisD4 points5 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

Okay so because it’s not what you wanna hear, you won’t read it. Very open-minded.

As I said, read the book and you’ll see the studies.

I didn’t say it was accurate for every man? Lol stop putting words in my mouth.

Otherwise, have a nice day

[–]Actuallyconsistent3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Ahh feminism 101

Read this book that's full of flaws. If you don't read it, you're a bigot. If you do read it and still have disagreements, youre closed minded and stubborn. I don't have to address your logic, I am backed up by this book that cannot be argued. Therefore I am superior to you and my religion cannot be questioned because I believe in the book, and you are too evil to understand.

It's a major frustration that I run into with feminists all the time. And just like with religious fanatics, everyone who argues against you is just bigoted and wrong so you never actually have to engage with anyone who disagrees with your ideas.

This is a dangerous form of blissful ignorance as demonstrated time and time again by traditional religion. Im interested to see how the new religion of feminism and progressivism will play out.

[–]allweknowisD9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It has literally nothing to do with feminism?

I gave you a book that has the sources in it for you to read for yourself. If you read it and disagree then okay?

But to dismiss it without ever reading it purely on the fact it’s not what you believe, that’s the definition of ignorant.

Literally every study etc has a bias, so do you dismiss every single piece of scientific evidence or ideology or study because of this? Or do you just dismiss it when it goes against what you believe?

[–]Actuallyconsistent1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It has literally nothing to do with feminism?

What youre talking about is feminist theory, and I have principled opposition to it.

But to dismiss it without ever reading it purely on the fact it’s not what you believe, that’s the definition of ignorant.

I would disagree. I don't believe in God. Dismissing the Bible as a moral compass is exactly what I do, and there is nothing ignorant about it because of my thought out principled position.

[–]allweknowisD4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Long live ignorance!

[–]marcus8crassus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This

[–]FlyingResearcher3 points4 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

The average man isn't even 6 foot tall so this really doesn't make any kind of sense.

[–]allweknowisD1 point2 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Then maybe I got the height a little wrong, sue me. People make mistakes.

It’s still designed around the average male and how the average male burns calories. Not women.

[–]FlyingResearcher0 points1 point  (18 children) | Copy Link

Well I don't know if this is another "mistake" in your numbers but the average weight of an adult in North America is 177 pounds, more than the 160 pounds you posted earlier, which would actually mean that they cater to women, not men.

Either way you're going to need some kind of factual reference to back this up.

[–]allweknowisD0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t give a number?

Also, I’ve gave the book in my comments to another commenter.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Large serving sizes = PATRIARCHY

[–]concacanca5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Treadmills assume you are like 160 which is too low for most 6ft guys.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

She’s pointing out a gender data gap.

What? That women are weaker at resisting food than men are?

It’s hardly blaming anyone, she’s just stating that this is how things are because the world is catered to men in more ways than you even realise.

Is anyone forcing you to eat all the food? Are you incapable of ordering a different meal or checking the portion size on the menu? Do you have to eat out when you could cook instead and have better control over your diet?

Overeating and restaurant serving sizes have nothing to do with anyone's lack of self control.

Even the calorie counters on different equipment at the gym ie treadmills etc are designed as if you’re a 6ft and so many lbs man.

Take that up with the gym. It's not like women don't have women only gyms to go to if they fear the upper spectrum of a calorie burn guesstimation. This still doesn't change the fact that no one else is responsible for what you eat. You are. If you go to McDonald's and order ten burgers, they're not going to discourage you for your own good. They're going to give you ten burgers because for all they know, you have ten hungry people back home and they want to make money.

[–]allweknowisD3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah... none of that addresses anything I said. All I said was there was a gender data gap.

I’m not discussing anyone’s behaviour. I don’t give a fuck if you’re obese or not.

But nice to know how you feel about women, and especially overweight women

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah... none of that addresses anything I said. All I said was there was a gender data gap.

You said things are far more gendered than people know but we're talking about peoples' eating choices. You dragged in a gendered agenda here and when I pointed out it doesn't change peoples' poor eating choices, you claim it doesn't address what you wrote. What you wrote has little to do with peoples' weight gain so it's the wrong context to address the issues you highlighted. You're welcome to write a new post about it.

I’m not discussing anyone’s behaviour. I don’t give a fuck if you’re obese or not.

Then why are you here on a thread about peoples' eating habits? That's people's behavior.

But nice to know how you feel about women, and especially overweight women

Ha!

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

What? Am I supposed to feel guilty about pointing out that fat women are fat because they have no impulse control and are too damn lazy to diet and exercise?

And am I supposed to present this in a female friendly way so as not to offend you or anyone who thinks women are wonderful?

Please.

[–]allweknowisD2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because it doesn’t. I’m not addressing how people eat or what they eat. I couldn’t care less if people eat too much or too little. Especially not as much as most the guys on this sub clearly care.

I mentioned a gender data gap because how meals are designed can fit into it. Which the comment was discussing. I’m sorry if you don’t see the connection there.

It’s nothing about being female friendly. It was just amusing to see the word vomit of disgust you feel towards overweight people. Obesity is a far more complex issues than “just stop eating”. But I can see I’m dealing with someone that’s a little too ignorant to see that.

Bye now.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately not all restaurants put calories on the menu and it takes having to know what calories look like to know you're over eating.

I became 5 lbs overweight and stayed like that for a year before I did weight watchers and I lost 5 lbs. Really crossing my fingers I don't plataue here, getting to my previous "stable" weight is a minimum for me, I want to go even less. I don't know how to explain it besides that everyone has a different perspective and story. Not everyone is fat/lazy/ignorant/stupid etc. Sometimes you need a wake-up call or need to be brainwashed in one direction or the other. I've been brainwashed to understand looking good is preferable to not looking good therefore I care about eating enough to lose weight. But my story is gonna be different from someone else's.

All I know is, if it was easy for me to be 20-30 lbs less I would have already been by now. I eat a bit too much. I really don't eat a lot. Probably 1500 on average. That is enough for me to gain at my height. So now after doing that for awhile, I need to be at 1200 or less. And when I stop, I can eat at 1450.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Unfortunately not all restaurants put calories on the menu and it takes having to know what calories look like to know you're over eating.

You...can ask the restaurant about portion size. Or go to restaurants that know how much they are saving. There's also common sense. If you go out and eat hamburgers and ice cream, you cannot complain about picking up weight because they didn't show you the calories. You could opt for grilled chicken and vegetables instead.

I don't know how to explain it besides that everyone has a different perspective and story. Not everyone is fat/lazy/ignorant/stupid etc. Sometimes you need a wake-up call or need to be brainwashed in one direction or the other.

I don't mean to be mean here, but weight loss is not science fiction. We have known about it for a looooong time and we know what works. Eating less and exercising more leads to weight loss.

Your feelings about it and how you deal with it mentally are up to you. As someone who also lost weight, and wants to lose more, it is difficult but most of the problems are not physical. You can go for hour long walk runs early in the morning or in the evening. You can fast intermittently to lose the weight. But it's uncomfortable. So when someone overweight says it's too hard it just means they value their food more than their health and/or are too lazy to do anything about it. Fasting doesn't even require you to do anything but sit there and not eat.

All I know is, if it was easy for me to be 20-30 lbs less I would have already been by now. I eat a bit too much. I really don't eat a lot. Probably 1500 on average. That is enough for me to gain at my height. So now after doing that for awhile, I need to be at 1200 or less. And when I stop, I can eat at 1450.

I know it's hard. I've been there as well. But you can avoid this by not eating for a day. Eat your 1450 calories every second day instead. Losing weight is like sticking your hand into a blocked toilet to unclog it. It's not a pleasant thought or task, but it won't kill you.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a straw man. I'm not saying that it's too hard. I'm saying it's not easy. Idk about you most of the time I cannot pick the restaurant (I usually only go to restaurants as a result of being invited to them for events). I can "weigh with my eyes" and distinguish what an ounce looks like but it's not perfect.

I have mood stability issues when I am hungry. I get very irritable and emotional. Considering I want to be stable and pleasant it's hard to justify skipping food for a whole day. Lunch time perhaps yes but I was trying to avoid insane spikes of leptin and insulin when I do end up eating because I know I'm starving.

And it's not about what you said that makes it hard. It's a number of factors. Like wanting to do that , and wanting to prioritize weight loss over enjoyment of life.

I'm not overweight. I was 5 lbs overweight but I lost that in 4 weeks on the right program. The folly is thinking by just "eating less" the weight magically slides off. The brain does funny things to you and lies to yourself about the actual calorie content of foods and unless you logged you may "convienently forget" that you are something higher cal. You might put too much oil in your cooking. You might have a little too much of the carb you're limiting. You catch my drift.

It's not always possible to order chicken and vegetables at every restaurant but even if I did , I didn't really understand why I couldn't order a steak with vegetables. Truth is when they bring you a 12 oz steak no matter how much you think you can limit yourself to 3 oz of it you'll eat more. If you're me that is and have an addiction to the taste of food and the act of eating. Also wanting to fit in and having drinks and apps. Unless you're tracking these things cannot be enjoyed even in moderation without derailing weight loss efforts during the rest of the week.

What makes dieting hard isn't just logistics but combine it with a host of other lifestyle choices and constraints and suddenly it becomes very difficult, without conscious and consistent effort and sacrifice. No one loses weight being full and satisfied all the time. No one.

[–]FlyingResearcher0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't think this is "catering to men". It's just easier and more practical to give too much food than not enough.

If you give too much, you can just eat less (easier said than done, I know.... I agree with the OP on this point).

But if you have guests leaving hungry, people will complain, and they won't come back. So it's not a conspiracy so much as it is an unintended consequence of the way things are.

[–]allweknowisD0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

All I said was it’s a gender pay gap.

If by default men eat more then having bigger portions is catering more towards men than women

[–]FlyingResearcher0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, I think you're missing my point then.

[–]Cyclone619y2j 1 points [recovered]  (10 children) | Copy Link

Ironically, this post perfectly proves the opposite of what she is trying to say.

You really have no leg to stand on if you're bitching about no being able to guzzle as much alcohol or because you're ignorant about sauces/oils in salads having calories.

Women really do have it easy.

Meanwhile, most men are never going to look anything like Chris Hemsworth if they killed themselves

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman6 points7 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

And most women aren't going to look like Megan Fox even if they literally starve themselves.

And it's not about being "ignorant", unless you weigh every single ingredient yourself you are making a guesstimate, which can be wrong, and doing this in front of a group of people who are so obviously not doing this, then it becomes not only work but awkward. It's definitely not easy to watch all your friends dig into a meal while you're on your phone looking up all the ingredients and guestimating amounts into MFP. And you have to do this every time you eat out. There's no "cheating". There's no slack

[–]SelfUnmadeManruminator0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would give you a thousand upvotes if I could.

[–]a-WaltzingMatildaPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Like...

Just don’t go out and eat in restaurants.

So simple.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't believe the lengths people will go though in order to blame other people and not take personal responsibility.

2019, man. Society is fucking binging on shifting responsibility.

[–]zerotakashi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Stoicism is the best way. For me though, I used to powerlift + got lean by sprinting. Now, I'm trying to diet to get slim.

Dieting is very painful for me because it does not release endorphins. Working out is actually very fun.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

THIS.

I lost 25 pounds in 2 years during my looksmax journey.

I now I am 55 kg x 168 height, UK size 8, US size 4. Before I used to be a US size 8.

My natural body shape (a concept that many men DO NOT understand) is hourglass.

I will always have broad shoulders, thin waist, broad hips.

Because of my shape sometimes I am still called "fat" by stick thin lovers (I am from Milan which is a city full of thin models so maybe that is why).

They think I could be a size 2 or 0 and reduce my hips if I ate less or better. Yet I already eat healthy and exercise almost everyday.

It was difficult to lose weight even if it was not so much because I was on cortisone medication which makes losing weight much more slower and difficult.

I had to use slimming creams for certain areas (mostly hips and thighs) because even after the weight loss, they were still a bit bulgy. And such creams require to be put like 2 times for many months and costs money. They worked. Such creams contain stuff like pepper, sea salt, seaweed and caffeine. Such creams also are needed to keep off cellulitis (and cellulitis come to 80% of women, even skinny or normal weight ones).

Now I am able to keep my shape, but in order to keep it I need to:

- Use slimming creams (less than before) to avoid the fat to grow up again

- receive massage for avoiding cellulitis- go to gym 3 times per week, walk 1 hour everyday- always count calories

- when I overeat (birthday or special occasion) the day after I need to do a little fasting

I also have done laser for stretch marks (another nice gift from cortisone and puberty) to improve my appearance.

If I stopped doing one of these things, my body shape would worsen noticely.

Like, if I stopped training, I would become skinny fat with saggy ass and saggy arms.

If I stopped using slimming creams and do massage at my beauty salon, I would get back cellulitis and love handles.

if I stopped counting calories and do some fasting, I would gain the weight back.

​

For some women with genetic or metabolic disorders it's even more difficult. Like, women who have lymphedema, lipedema (they can only resort to frequent liposuction), women who have hypothyroidism or polycystic ovarian syndrome.

Many women have autoimmune diseases (lupus is like 9/10 women, 1/10 man) require permanent cortisone. Cortisone makes you fat sadly. Selena Gomez gained weight because of cortisone and sadly many people bodyshamed her even if she is still good looking and did not gain much weight.

Also, cortisone is used for certain cancers, transplant receivers.

Other medications like antidepressive drugs or anti breast cancer drugs cause weight gain which can not be solved by simply dieting and exercising.

​

So the assumption that keeping fit is very simple is bullshit.

It mostly on your genetics (body shape, metabolism rate/hormones) and health condition/drugs needed for sickness.

​

Lifestyle (diet + exercise) can do something but

  1. You will not be able to change your body shape. Women are either Apple, Pear, Hourglass, Rectangle or Inverted Triangle. Surely you can improve your figure by losing excessive weight, but your shape can not be changed. A broad hips woman will always have broad hips even when she is skinny.
  2. They are not enough if you have genetic, hormonal problems or you are taking drugs for sickness which cause gain weight.

Also, the post pregnancy weight gain is a thing. Many women can not bounce back and not because they are overeating and staying on the sofa all the time. Also, many problems like saggy boobs, protruding abdomen or stretch marks can not be solved by any amount of "good diet and exercise".

[–]Cyclone619y2j27 points28 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That's just not true.

Women simply need to not be fat. Whereas men have to put on muscle while not gaining too much fat, AND THEN lose fat without losing too much muscle. It's much more work given that they are practically paradoxical processes.

All a woman needs to do is watch her calories. She doesn't even need to step inside the gym.

st restaurants don't give nutrition information, and these days even salads are dangerously loaded with calories, so you can't even just make the healthy choice and be sure what you're eating is truly healthy

That's on you. You should know better. This is just ignorance and there is no excuse for that.

Then think about college, where the average social life includes 2-3 nights of heavy drinking.

Oh booo fucking hoo. Don't drink like a pig.

we're just living in a world where serving sizes cater

Literally nobody is holding a gun to their head telling them to eat as much a 250lb guy.

This posts just merely exposes the amount of self-control fat women have even more so.

More evidence of how women live on easy mode.

edit: Oh another thing. Heavy lifting will wear your body down. I can't even lift heavy anymore because of all my past injuries. Please tell me how women have it so hard.

[–]NOTSM51 points52 points  (149 children) | Copy Link

So don’t over eat and chug sugar filled cocktails.

I have sympathy for the amount of makeup and hair bullshit y’all have to put up with, but acting like not eating out all the time is some Herculean task is absurd.

[–]ITooHaveThumbsMulticolored Pill Alchemist14 points15 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

This is dumb. Men gotta do ALL of this AND lift 5 days a week and consume 200+ grams of lean protein in order to have abs AND be bulit. It is literally 3-4 x the work to be muscular lean muscular than just 'not fat'. Cry me a fucking river.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

No. Lifting 4x a week the average dude has a TDEE of 3000+. 4000-5000 if they are in some sort of powerlifting program.

Women have to eat less then 1200-1600 depending on height just to be "not-fat". They are very comparable in difficulty.

[–]dawnpriestess1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

So, not eating like a fatass is as hard as going to the gym 4x a week and maintaining a strict diet? In what world?

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No. Maintaining a stricter diet is as hard as going to the gym and maintaining a not-fatass diet.

[–]dawnpriestess1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

One requires time, energy, and lots of pain. The other just requires some self-respect.

[–]erykaWaltz4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

you only get pain if you are a newb, or if you are doing things wrong

anyway this entire argument is nonsensical. you dont need to lift to be attractive. "just dont be a fat pig" applies to both men and women

some squats, push ups, sit ups, plank and pull ups. all these things you can do at home.

repeat them daily or at least bi weekly while remaining slim, and you will eventually develop nice, toned muscles and decent physique without having to visit the gym even once.

​

MOST IMPORTANTLY you should do these things for your own satisfaction, not because you feel social pressure to look in certain way. that's retarded beta pussy shite. dont get pressured lol.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I powerlift. If you have actual pain rather then just lactic acid burning when you lift you're doing it wrong.

Denying yourself does take energy, you know that, you've been on a cut I'm sure.

[–]dawnpriestess0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And then they still don't get to gain +2 points out of ten by playing MS paint on their face and gaining between 1-6 inches of height with their shoes.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I have sympathy for the amount of makeup and hair bullshit y’all have to put up with, but acting like not eating out all the time is some Herculean task is absurd.

Yeah this whole thread is ridiculous. Full of fat logic. A 1600 calorie diet is an oppressive restriction? fucking lol

An average restaurant meal is over 1000 calories, plus a drink or two

Yes when you go out you don't eat much for the other part of the day, everyone understands this, this isn't remotely a hard thing to do. Like not being fat involves spending less time cooking and eating, less money on food, and this is supposed to be a burden.

Most men severely underestimate the work that women do

Nah. Trying to gain weight to put on muscle, or trying to lose weight while preserving as much muscle as you can, are much more difficult. And most men are actively working in one of those categories. I have sympathy for all the hair removal stuff you have to go through but get outta here with this shit.

[–]littleprincesrose7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Less time cooking? Lol. I'm on 1200 cal and I spend way more time and money on food than before. If I want to make sure it's not full of sugar or drowning in oil, I have to prepare and measure it myself. While I didn't pay attention I grabbed just whatever, now it takes planning. I can't afford to guesstimate because the error could easily hijack the 3-400 deficit I try to maintain, so I measure and log everything to the last gram. Also you guys act like we don't have to care about macros and muscle. As for me weight is less of an issue than body composition, so guess what, while restricting I still pay attention to macros, getting enough protein in, to not lose the muscles I happen to work for, so I have to be very mindful of the nutritional quality of my food- it's definitely not cheaper than just eating whatever. It's advised literally everyhwere to preserve as much muscle as you can by losing weight, regardless of gender. Sure, now I'm talking about a diet situation, but if I reach my goal weight my BMR will be 1275, and TDEE at 1530, but that sounds overestimated- that means counting for life if I want to maintain that, which means less volume of food, yes, but I'll have to plan forever and spend extra money on food that isn't filled with shit that could make me fat. Which is not to complain, I chose this and all, I just dont get what's this visceral outrage at the idea that maintaining a slim figure actually takes effort.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Really great argument and I agree with this entirely. Well said.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

my TDEE is 1450. I can't eat out so i need to cook everything. And track everything. If i want to lose 1 lb per week, i need to cut 500 calories per day, eating <1000 calories per day. & i have an appetite that does not match my height and caloric needs, so unless i meticulously track everything, weigh everything, and turn down 90% of things that get offered to me while partaking in social activities, i will not lose weight, i will gain weight. It's not fun or easy.

Easy would be to be fat. That would be easy.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian12 points13 points  (75 children) | Copy Link

Did you read what she just said?

An average restaurant meal is over 1000 calories

That's one meal out with friends, taking up 2/3's to 3/4 of her daily calorie allotment.

It's not even "not eating out all the time". It's basically "never eating out at all"

[–]Actuallyconsistent13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Crazy, revolutionary idea I've got here. . .

YOU DONT HAVE TO EAT THE ENTIRE MEAL YOURE PROVIDED. THEY DO NOT FORCE THE FOOD DOWN YOUR THROAT.

Seriously, how the fuck do people even get through life if they think this way? Like there is literally zero responsibility and everything is someone else's fault.

This is real privilege

[–]NOTSM17 points18 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Did you read what she just said?

I did, she’s being melodramatic

It's not even "not eating out all the time". It's basically "never eating out at all"

Or she can order something that’s not 1000+ calories or she can and just not eat the whole thing eating the whole thing or she can eat a smaller lunch and then pig out at dinner

[–]Christian_Kong80% Natural Red7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

just not eat the whole thing

Almost always when going out with any women(dates, friends, etc) they end up with a take home portion of the meal.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Smaller lunch. 10 almonds and a yogurt. Then she can afford to eat a chicken breast AND half a sweet potato at dinner. Easy peasy.

[–]NOTSM6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you have any concept of how many calories certain foods have?

That’s only 600ish total calories

[–]bocelot1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. And she could literally just skip eating the cheap calorie dense sides that make up her "meal", like fries, beans, rice, etc.

[–]Pikachu___2000Addicted to improving myself16 points17 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

No one is forcing you to eat the whole meal. Being fat is a choice and unhealthy people make that choice every time they eat over the amount of calories they need in a day.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian16 points17 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

I agree that it's a choice. But saying that it's easier to be skinny then fat is just patently absurd.

I did a calorie plan for my wife once at her request. I crunched the numbers, ran the math, and when I got to the final product I felt appalled at how little food she was getting a day. I knew I couldn't maintain that kind of pattern for a week, let alone a month.

For the record: I'm a 6' somewhat muscled dude. She's 5' 3", so her calorie needs where less than half of mine.

While she was on the plan, if we went out she had to order off of the "diet menu" and even then she could only eat half of it without going over.

Finally. When you grow up poor as fuck, cleaning your plate is a habit to avoid waste.

[–]Pikachu___2000 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

saying that it's easier to be skinny then fat is just patently absurd.

No where in my comment did I say that.. so don't know why you said it.

Also exercise is a thing. If your wife or whomever can only eat 1400 calories a day before her body turns the excess into fat stores she can exercise to increase her daily intake. Even if it's low intensity walking 20 steps = 1 calorie burned that's in general it varies slightly based on your weight/height. I would say most people can take 80-100 steps a minute so in 30 minutes you can burn north of 100 calories just walking. I use a pedometer app and it counts my steps and calories burned for me.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Calories burned during walking are based on time and weight. You get wildly different results.

a 120lb person walking for an hour burns about 120ish calories

a 200lb person burns about 210ish calories.

So even walking they burn less while exercising. I'm fully aware of the differences. Not being fat as a dude is easy as fuck. All I had to do was only eat out once a week.

My wife? She's going through hell, and I know it.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I did a calorie plan for my wife once at her request. I crunched the numbers, ran the math, and when I got to the final product I felt appalled at how little food she was getting a day.

This is melodramatic. A good clue is that no one ever whines about how low a child's caloric needs are. My daughter's 11 and 5'. So of course, she eats half of what I, a muscular 6-foot man, eat. Do you think anyone ever moans that my daughter just needs 1,200 calories or so per day? Do you think she ever bitches about how she is oh-so-hungry with these small portions? Of course not. If anything, she should feel a stronger impulse to eat because she is still growing but no one ever whines about how small her calorie needs are, including her.

I knew I couldn't maintain that kind of pattern for a week, let alone a month.

For the record: I'm a 6' somewhat muscled dude. She's 5' 3", so her calorie needs where less than half of mine.

See what you did there? You explained why you need to eat twice as much as your wife. Just because it is a deprivation for you doesn't mean it is a deprivation for her. Maybe you're being deprived because some 280 lb mass monster who just walked off the stage at Olympia needs 6,000 calories per day, yeah?

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

My daughter's 11 and 5'

And there it is. She's in the full swing of puberty and needs those calories to grow. I bet money she's eating more then your wife is assuming she's just not fat.

[–]LeftHookTKD0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Her calore needs are less because she needs less. She wont crave as mucu

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Do you know how many calories are in everything you eat? A dish could vary from 500-1000 calories and you have no idea.

You either need to severely undereat to be safe when eating out, or order very plain foods with few ingredients, or don't eat out. It is not easy to be slim when you only have 1400 calories you can eat in a day.

[–]Pikachu___2000 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

Do you know how little food your body actually needs to perform it's daily functions while maintaining your weight? America is obese because we've normalized 1000 calorie meals and people finish them. Then they eat again later, then they snack on something. Then they're surprised they're gaining weight, like yeah eating 3000+ calories a day does that especially if you lead a sedentary lifestyle.

Instead break your calories into time slots 400(breakfast) 400(lunch) 400(dinner) 200(snack) want to eat more? Exercise Walking 20 steps burns 1 calorie. Walk 6000 steps you burn 300 calories.

Also not knowing how many calories are in something is an excuse. The internet exist, you have a phone. If you go out to eat it takes 10 seconds to google what you're going to order and find out how many calories the meal is.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I've been tracking all my food with weight watchers and no, it's not always possible to know how much oil was used in a food that you ordered, or how many grams of your meal consist of pasta and how many grams consist of sauce. You can make a guesstimate but you could be off by 200 or MORE calories and if you're trying to stick to 1200 calories per day do this one or two times and you've blown past your calorie target.

The problem here is as a woman I just have way less wiggle room for error. Either I'm 100% right and I lose, or I had to eat out. I literally cook 90% of what I eat so I'm mostly right but going out to eat is so damn difficult , and if I don't track my appetite alone could result in eating 3-4x my calorie target for that meal.

[–]welcometothejlRed Pill Man6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Why do you have to eat all of it? Women have an advantage in that they get a higher % of their calories per dollar than men. Of course they find a way to be the victim as per usual, but really they should look at it as helping to make up for that phony wage gap they're always complaining about.

[–]Ofourkind1 point2 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

It's really easy to order lighter meals or choose restaurants with healthy options. Or if you know you're going to gorge when you go out, plan for it by restricting calories. I do this and after I got used to it, it takes up just about zero mental energy.

I couldn't even physically manage to take down 1000 calories in one sitting at this point. If you can do that without getting sick, you're eating habits are out of control.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian2 points3 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Even lighter meals are 600 calories. Which is between half and 2/3 of the daily intake depending on the woman's height.

[–]Ofourkind1 point2 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

If you think 600 calories is a "light" meal.....

Even if that is the lightest thing you can find in a restaurant, why not just eat less before and after? Why not save some for leftovers?I still enjoy things like donuts, French fries, and caesar drenched salads. I just plan for them.

I know it's hard to get used to, but believe me it does get much easier. I stay within my 1300 calorie limit effortlessly and have for many years, but that wasn't always the case. Practice and plan.

[–]ihatespunk1 point2 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

"Practice and plan" isnt easy or so many people wouldn't struggle with it. My weight has fluctuated a lot over my adult life depending on how much I can practice and plan.

[–]Ofourkind1 point2 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

People find it difficult because they don't practice and plan. They rely on willpower, which sets them up for failure.

Instead of "Amy wants to meet at that bakery with those delicious donuts. Let me make sure I make room in my calorie budget beforehand"

They think "Amy wants to meet at that bakery again. I won't order the donut like last time, I'll just sit there with my lemon water and eat nothing"

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (18 children) | Copy Link

Or because in life it takes time and effort to practice and plan and they need to learn how to do it.

[–]Ofourkind0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

Right. Like everything.

Do you find driving difficult to do?

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

I don't drive. So don't know where you were going with that...

But men who act like being slim takes no effort are out of touch. To be slim when you are a short woman, it takes effort and work. That's the entire point of the thread tbh.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

donuts, French fries, and caesar drenched salads

So you basically don't eat anything else on those days

I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's not easy. It's actually hard.

[–]Ofourkind3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You have a very poor understanding of nutrition if you think a donut or a serving of French fries is 1300 calories.

The donuts I like most are about 350 calories. A serving of fries is about 400 calories.

It's not hard to cut 400 calories from a normal day or even 200 calories for 2 days if you already know how much you're eating.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So it's not hard to do something that's hard if you're doing hard stuff to know how to make it easy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol what? You can go over calories and be ok. I can eat an entire dominoes pizza for dinner once a week and not add to my wasteline

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's one meal out with friends, taking up 2/3's to 3/4 of her daily calorie allotment.

so start intermittent fasting like everyone else. if you're only eat one meal a day, you can demolish that huge restaurant meal with your friends AND lose weight.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No you can't. I can go to any resteraunt chain and find a 2k calorie meal. That will gain most women weight.

Now if you said one meal a day and ate a healthier resteraunt meal, then sure.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Which is what women in this thread say we do. We're not saying it can't be done or we don't know how to do it, we're saying it takes effort and energy to restrict yourself that much.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's not even "not eating out all the time". It's basically "never eating out at all"

So it's the restaurant's fault you're overweight?

And you're incapable of cooking at home? You don't have to eat at unhealthy restaurants either.

[–]PlainSlim[S] 10 points11 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

It is honestly a given to not drink sugary cocktails. This is what I mean by guys underestimate the work it takes to stay skinny as a woman. You legitimately think we don't know that a sugary cocktail is like 400+ calories? We are already drinking whiteclaws and vodka sodas, getting small meals/salads, eating less all day to prepare, working out, and turning down invitations on days we already overate.

Oh and the other thing is there's this weird pressure on girls to be skinny without trying. Like if you get a salad or eat at home first so you don't order anything... people will tell you that you need to eat a burger. If you watch your diet at all you are anorexic/vain/anal.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh and the other thing is there's this weird pressure on girls to be skinny without trying.

This whole thread is proof of that--you pointed out it's work and people are bugging out, and/or assuming you're some kind of cartoon character binging on donut cheeseburgers or something.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman10 points11 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I'm 4'11 and on the high side of healthy BMI. I'm doing WW and track every. Single. Thing. I eat. I never eat out. I'm usually hungry. I can't eat snacks. I have to bring a good scale with me everywhere I go. My job caters lunch on Fridays, and I have very little clue on how to track it.

It is not melodramatic. It's very difficult to be slim. You can't enjoy any deserts or barbeque. A freaking hamburger by itself is an entire meal.

[–]NOTSM3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ll add the caveat that it’s difficult for very tiny women

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not even, it's two. Especially for a girl of your height.

[–]Wandos7naproxen sodium1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I went to Shake Shack and ordered a double shackburger by mistake but it lasted for 3 meals!

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I'm talking like a tiny patty on a bun with no condiments burger lol

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Do IF, stop eating all the time. Just eat once a day. My whole family does it and we are all very fit. I got my whole family into fitness. Even my Mom is in great shape with my guidance.

Also, go to the gym and lift weights like a guy won't help you get skinny much but it will help you be more healthy.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I am unable to do IF consistently because in the middle of the day being hungry makes it difficult to code and interact with people. I get very hungry then I am famished at dinner and eat way more than I should. Then I deal with some stomach pain as a result.

I don't eat all the time. I ate at 12 on and 7 pm daily. Now I eat an egg in the morning and I've lost 5 lbs just tracking what I eat (it looks so much smaller than what I normally eat). This is Because I really love food and can eat a lot in one setting. I do best if the food isn't there.

Yes I lift weights too

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You are a programmer? That is very cool I am as well.

You are going to be hungry until your body gets used to eating once a day. You just have to distract yourself. If IF doesn't work you can try 2 meals but they won't feel very satisfying imo. Since your cals prolly are not that high.

Either way if you ever wanna get lasting results it has to be in a way that you can replicate consistently.

Yeah tracking what you eat is the first step. Eventually, you won't need to really because you will have a good idea of what everything has for cals/carbs/etc.

I am like you I like to make food and eat it. I used to work as a cook. So I am great at cooking. I make big meals for myself at night and just eat that. If I go out I drink protein before I leave and eat light.

Some Apps can help you estimate what macros a meal has even if the restaurant doesn't list it. Also if you cook a lot you might just know what goes into certain dishes. That can help you guesstimate as well. I use MyFitnessPal for tracking stuff. Also you should be tracking your weight every day.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I have been eating 2 meals a day since I started corporate life. I've gained almost 10 lbs. I lost 5 in the last 4 weeks on weight watchers (I fucked up my third week imo). I track my food and weight every day in weight watchers and in finding it easier than CICO abd MFP because I love to cook with many different ingredients that are all very low cal but feel compulsed to measure them all. WW makes it clear what needs to be tracked and what are healthier alternatives. Maybe I could gain weight eating too much, so I will be cross referencing against MFP to make sure I don't overdo the healthy food.

I can do IF (skip lunch) a few times a week but eating once a day is not healthy for my digestive system because if Crohn's disease and processing so much food at once I think. On the other hand giving my system a break is good. I've been eating breakfast (one hard boiled egg) when I started WW the theory being I'd be less hungry at lunch and eat less snacks (my job provides tons of free snacks which I avoid 99% of the time).

Strawberries are great too. So low cal and satisfying!

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've never used weight watchers but it sounds like it is giving good results and it is easy for u to use. So that's good. 5 lbs in 4 weeks is good but u can always slow it down if u want to eat more and be less hungry as well. Yeah vegetables and fruit are pretty low cal so u can East a bunch.

[–]geyges🐇2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

IKR. You're served a meal with 1000 calories. Do you have to fucking finish it right there and then?

I've seen women gobble up ridiculous amount of whatever food is put in front of them like they're pigs at a trough or something.

Is everyone aware that you can ask for a box, and finish that for dinner?

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A simple glass of wine is also just as bad. I just don't drink on social events unless I plan to cut my calories by a lot later on. The cognitive load takes effort too. And resisting temptation .

[–]isweartoofuckingmuch 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

Lol, fucking seriously?

​

Just calorie count, you dont even need to work out. You can't eat as many calories as men because you dont need as many calories as men.

Yeah no problem, we're just living in a world where serving sizes cater to a 6 foot overweight dude

​

It is no problem, just stop stuffing your face after you're full or order smaller portions. Count calories for a month and you can start getting an approximation of how much of each is too many calories. There are issues women face but not stuffing your face beyond what you need really isn't that much of an achievement.

[–]PlainSlim[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes I don't need to be told to count my calories... started counting calories about 3 years ago and lost 40 pounds and I'm now a size 2. I don't need diet advice from a dude.

It took me about 6 months to lose the weight and now 3 years later I'm still trying to figure out how to balance maintaining that diet while not socially isolating myself and not feeling like garbage. It's not as simple as just not stuffing your face. All this stuff that guys here are telling me to "just do" are things that are a given. "Just don't drink sugary cocktails" "just count your calories" "just don't stuff yourself"... uhh duh. That's a given. I barely ever eat sweets, mostly home cooked every day, lots of vegetables, fruits, lean meats, and spend at least part of every day hungry.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It took me about 6 months to lose the weight and now 3 years later I'm still trying to figure out how to balance maintaining that diet while not socially isolating myself and not feeling like garbage.

you can't. socialization = eating and drinking

When I was last single I was as lovely 123lbs. Then I started dating and got up to 135lbs. NOW, i'm still a size 2, cuz its muscle, but that's a lot.

If I were single again tomorrow, I'd be 120 lbs by mid-July. its hard to be in a relationship and not gain loveweight :(

[–]isweartoofuckingmuch 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

You don't need to get condescending. This post smells like a heavy lack of education so I thought i'd help you out a little. Clearly you know what you're doing

​

But guess what, a lot of people chasing their dream bodies are hungry a lot of the time also. If you're a size 2 you clearly care about your body. You should be proud of it for yourself, not to be able to moan on PPD to others how hard it is to be slim. If it was really THAT easy everyone would have perfect bodies.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The point of this post was someone else moaning about how hard it is to have to go to the gym.

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf28 points29 points  (44 children) | Copy Link

Not eating is easier than eating. Eating requires action and you have to waste money too. Eating healthy is very cheap.

Theres no work at all, theres just the willpower to say no to cake, pizza, and double cheeseburgers

An average restaurant meal is over 1000 calories, plus a drink or two. 

So get a water, being home 2/3 of your meal as leftovers and give it to your man/a roommate/throw it out like everyone else

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman13 points14 points  (39 children) | Copy Link

This is bullshit. Not eating isn't easier than eating. Humans brains are wired to seek food when hungry. It is literally like trying not to breathe - if there is food, and you are hungry, it is incredibly difficult to fight the instinct to eat. It takes more action to not eat then it takes to eat.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Dieting is easier than bulking

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf18 points19 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

For real. I'd like to see one of these women try to eat 4000 cal clean. That's over 1lb of chicken, 2 full bowls of brown rice or oats, and some milk. Every damn day

They think just because we can eat that much were eating wings and tacos 247

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Clean bulking is one of the hardest things I’ve done physically. Literally have to eat so much that it effects my schedule. Want to play 18 holes of golf? Going on a business trip? Volunteering all day?

Got to find a way to still get those calories in.

Being taller makes it just that much more difficult too

[–]theambivalentroosterLiteral Chad4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree it is awkward to bring a gallon of milk to a golf course.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Try Intermittent Fasting. It is what I do because I don't have time to spend hours on eating. Tho it still ends up like that sometimes.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Honestly. When I’m bulking (which is all the time) I take “cheat”days of eating like a woman instead.

Instead of shoveling chicken and rice and protein shakes into my face, I order light portions at restaurants. Drink la croix and vodka if I’m drinking alcohol and eat small salads or those health bowls. It’s sooooo nice.

My idea of a break/cheat day is eating like OP seems to absolutely dread eating like lol

[–]PlainSlim[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah if you are constantly overeating/bulking... you can easily go a day eating light. Any time I overeat, it's not that difficult to eat under my calories the next day. I can't even imagine if I were overeating every single day. Randomly eating a little lighter one day gives absolutely no insight into the challenges of staying skinny. What's hard is staying under your calorie allotment when you've been under your calorie allotment for weeks/months at a time.

I'm not trying to compare to the challenges of bulking. Honestly I have never in my life tried to eat more than I needed. This is such a foreign concept to me. It could be really hard to overeat like that, but I wouldn't know and I probably never will, because I have no desire to gain weight like that. But similar to how you understand the challenges of bulking and I don't, I understand the challenges of staying slim and I don't think that you do.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m not pretending to understand, I’m just saying that many men may not understand your situation because a lot of us are in the opposite boat, hence some of the animosity in this thread.

I dated a calorie counter for a while, who stressed over a pound or two on the scale. She super skinny and gorgeous but panicked over a pound uptick. I can kind of relate to the struggle because I stress over a pound downtick on the scale, I do realize it’s different though.

I think the biggest issue people have with this is that they think you mean “it’s so hard to not eat huge meals and drink margaritas,” I take it you mean “it’s hard to consistently eat small portions of healthy food when so much of young people’s social lives revolves around eating out (at not necessarily healthy restaurants) and drinking”

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe for you, but with my height is far easier for me to bulk. I would just need to eat more! This is not hard for me to do, my appetite is large. I am always hungry.

I would never need to bulk though because I'm 4'11 and always hungry.

[–]ThatGamer7070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Haha so true. I can tell someone here has actually gotten in shape.

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf7 points8 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

It is literally like trying not to breathe

When I dont think about breathing I keep breathing. When I dont think about eating I dont find myself getting up to go to the kitchen or the grocery store or the drive through

It takes more action to not eat then it takes to eat.

Objectively false statement

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman10 points11 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Put a plate of BBQ in front of you and see how much you "have to think" to finish it.

At some point our body needs food. We seek it out. Once it's in front of us it does take objectively more effort to stop eating. Our body wants us to eat. This is why many people have to consciously eat slowly or take breaks while eating so that your stomach can signal to the brain that it is full. If you don't do that, your brain will continue to want to eat until that signal is recieved. So long as the food is in front of your face there is CONSCIOUS effort involved to not eat it if you're hungry.

[–]RenzololPurple Pill Man7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Here's an idea.

Don't put the plate of bbq there and you won't have to think about it.

[–]LovingLivingLargehere for a good time, not for a long time13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

she doesn't! that's been her whole point!

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Usually I don't have a plate of BBQ in front of me but when your company flies out your team from across the country and your team lead decided to go to a BBQ place and order BBQ family style , it's another thing. I tracked everything I ate that day and still went over my points, but when I thought about how much I ate and how hungry I was I realized had I not been tracking eating 2-3x the amount I ate would have been trivial. I wouldn't have even thought about it! Every one of my coworkers said "omg I are tooooo much" and meanwhile here I am with my 1 sausage , 1 tablespoon of Mac n cheese, 1 piece of brisket .

The good news was they were so full no one wanted the leftovers, I was able to take all the leftovers home to my fiance. hahaha.

I also went out to habachi for my brother's graduation and couldn't order half rice and half veggies, so I took 3/4th of my rice and dumped it onto my fiance's place.

Otherwise it would have been inhaled.

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Put a plate of BBQ in front of you and see how much you "have to think" to finish it.

If it's out of my macros I'll box it up and put it in the fridge with no hesitation. In fact I regularly do exactly what you're talking about, I'll cook up some chicken and I want to eat it all at once but to maximize muscle protein synthesis I should eat 1/3 of it every 2 and a half hours. And guess what I'll leave it out and do just that because I have some willpower. Apparently unlike any women on this sub

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

All of that takes work. What doesn't take work is inhaling the food. To claim it takes no work not to eat is silly. You just listed out all the things you need to do to make sure you don't eat. That didn't sound like no effort.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think there's evidence of protein windows. It's bullshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4livEPcsQvw

Daily intake is the most important thing.

https://www.progressivefitness.net/blog/erichelmsinterview

Timing is extremely low on the totem pole of importance and certainly much less important than meeting your daily target protein intake.

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-10-53 (the real deal)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah there is protein windows but the general consensus is that they're not even remotely as tight or meaningful as they're made out to be. Maybe on the elite professional bodybuilder level they might matter, but odds are that isn't this guy or any/most of the people on PPD.

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

BBQ is actually pretty good nutritionally

Not hard at all to make that part of a clean eating diet just watch those sides

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

not the BBQ im talking about, with the sauces and marinades ?

Also really hard to count calories.

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yeah like I said just watch the sides

Also if they use too much oil why would you even eat it, I’ve had that kind of meat and it’s gross

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Have you had southern style BBQ? They slather it in this thing called "barbeque sauce" which mostly consists of sugar. It's delicious, but not healthy!!

A good old cookout BBQ is much preferable. We grilled every night this week so far!!!

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes I lived in the south for quite a while like I said if you watch the sides it’s probably on the healthier side of food you can get when you go out to eat

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Dunno dude. Eating lots of meat is still calories and that's still weight to be gained if I'm not eating less than my TDEE of 1400. For weight loss I'm aiming for 1000-1200, and a 400 calorie plate of BBQ is probably super tiny.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

When I dont think about eating I dont find myself getting up to go to the kitchen or the grocery store or the drive through

Really? You don't? You don't feel ANY physical symptoms of hunger if you just "don't think about eating" for, say, a day? Your stomach doesn't hurt? If you go a little longer than a day, you don't get dizzy or lightheaded at all?

Because that sounds like you're on some good drugs, man.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You don't feel ANY physical symptoms of hunger if you just "don't think about eating" for, say, a day?

I would feel the hunger in that scenario but how is it relevant? The OP is talking about eating 1600 calories a day. I certainly am not all that uncomfortable eating that much, let alone a woman who is smaller and shorter than me.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I wasn't responding to OP; I was responding to his claim that if he"doesn't think about eating" he doesn't find himself pursuing food, and this causes no difficulties.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was responding to his claim that if he"doesn't think about eating"

I also don't think about eating if I've had my standard 3 meals and I think about eating a lot if I haven't eaten anything that day. I would assume this is also what OP meant.

[–]PlainSlim[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I completely disagree. Even though typically you can eat healthy food that you like.. let's go out on a limb and say you HAVE to eat something you don't like. So you suck it up, go do it, and you're done. Not eating on the other hand.. let's say we're on the typical female diet where you are going to be slightly hungry most of the day. You must constantly suppress the nagging in your stomach. Every single minute your body is like.. hey you should eat something! And you have to say no. You can't just not eat and be done with it, it's constant willpower.

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dont talk to me like I dont know what calorie counting is like, it's been a while but I've cut down for an 8 pack for the summer before. It takes months

You must constantly suppress the nagging in your stomach. Every single minute your body is like.. hey you should eat something! And you have to say no. You can't just not eat and be done with it, it's constant willpower.

That's when you drink a sugar free monster and eat a basic salad with some chicken

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I hoped into this thread thinking I'll hear about how us women have a biological predisposition to accumulate fat due to estrogen and low muscle mass and thus we gain weight easier than men. But no, it's all about social butterflies who are constantly battling cocktails and 1000 calorie meals.

Keeping the weight off is easy when you eat whole foods, limit sugar and have moderate activity. Trying to fit pizza, alcohol and donuts into 1200 calories a day will get you diabetes and premature aging. Where do you have space for the good food?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You tell em girl.

Filled with self obsessed social climbers who can't dare have somebody disapprove of them in their little uppity circles. Hilariously if they had the ovaries to just go against social peer pressure and say no every now and then they would probably be more respected rather than be some basic bitch. In life, you can always say no, that's something which is always an option.

[–]Ofourkind15 points16 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I'm a woman and I disagree. Once you make healthy eating and daily exercise a part of your normal routine, it becomes second nature. I'm in excellent shape and don't feel like it takes much "work". I enjoy eating light and healthy foods and have found physical activities like trail running that I actually truly enjoy. It's not a hassle. I eat out once a week and easily calculate that into my caloric intake. It just takes practice. I don't have magical genetics. Two of my brothers are obese.

Obviously most men and women don't put in even minimal effort to remain Not Fat, though.

Hair and makeup, however, is a ton of work. At least for me. Luckily I'm blessed with naturally beautiful hair that requires minimal if any styling and maintenance, but I gave up on makeup long ago. I hate that shit. I am always impressed with women who take the time to do that every day.

Honestly this post seems like something from /r/fatlogic

[–]SilverNova991 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

look around you on a normal day. where i live, i see overweight and obese people everywhere. for every fit person i see, i see like 10 overweight people. it's clearly easy as hell to become fat in today's society. it is hard for a petite woman to maintain a slim physique with fattening food everywhere. I work as an RN and there is always large deliveries of unhealthy food in the break room. doughnuts, chocolate, pizza. I have to say no every time i come to work. We also have a cafeteria full of junk food. and guess what, even though nursing is a very physically demanding job, where you're on your feet for 12 and a half hours, id say 75 to 80% of the nurses i work with are fat. being thin for the majority of women requires a lot of good choices. when you're hungry your body craves food and want's nothing more than to devour a pizza or burger. being thin is hard but not impossible.

[–]nawab60013 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Man chubby chicks look cuter and hotter to me than skinny chicks lol but thats just me

[–]CainPrice15 points16 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

Waking up early, going to the gym every day, eating lean protein and vegetables at every meal (and knowing how to cook for yourself), eating sensible portion sizes, and when you go out not gorging yourself and cleaning your plate and just having one drink instead of 5 isn't hard. Most men you know that are fuckable do that. It takes a little getting used to at first, especially if you've been a lazy fatass your whole life, but once you get into the habit, it's easy.

The biggest issue women face isn't that they have to work out and eat right and exercise self control when they're out with their friends. Because that's not hard to do.

Women's biggest obstacle is their lower metabolism compared to men. A woman over 30 has a shitty BMR and porks up if she eats more than 1200-1500 calories a day. Men that age can still eat 2000 calories a day and not get fat as long as they work out.

But men face the added burden that they can't just be skinny. They have to be fit and have some musculature, too. Women can just be skinny.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Women's biggest obstacle is their lower metabolism compared to men. A woman over 30 has a shitty BMR and porks up if she eats more than 1200-1500 calories a day. Men that age can still eat 2000 calories a day and not get fat as long as they work out.

Solid truth.

[–]Aaren_Augustine 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

Her answer is basically "Its hard to lay off the bonbons"...

Men are easily impressed. Women are difficult to impress.

[–]Shadow_Of_Chad-Lite2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My mom is 45 and is able to stay not fat by just not eating as much. It's not hard just lay off the smoothies.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. I know plenty of model tier women who never step into a gym. Fit body for a woman obviously is a plus but her face is what really matters. Other than that thin or fit is what matters

For a guy to have noticeable muscle it’s damn hard

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Women's biggest obstacle is their lower metabolism compared to men

Small men have a lower BMR too, this is just physics, not age.

Men that age can still eat 2000 calories a day and not get fat as long as they work out.

At 6' my average BMR without exercising is 2700 a day, easy work, but some walking around the facility. 2000 is just a WHO average for men and women which is a horrible stat. I'd be underweight at 2000 a day, my wife would be over weight. She's much smaller than me so its expected.

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'd like to compare this with your original parent comment in this thread. I really just want to point out that when you skim through all the comments, it's apparent that men in general have no idea what the BMR is for most women around here.

Having said that, your original comment is correct in that it really only takes an understanding of CICO for women to be at an attractive weight, but that's not really the point of what OP's saying. It's that men don't understand what that looks like in terms of actual food going on our plate. You seem to kind of realize that here, but it's evident in others all over this thread that their idea of "reasonable food intake for women to maintain thin body" very probably looks closer to 1800++ calories.

Men don't get that, is all I'm trying to say. Least of all most of the men here.

[–]TheLongerCon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Calories in, calories out is unscientific bullshit.

[–]sivariasMauve Dragovian3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Small men have a lower BMR too

Not to the same degree. For equivalent heights the man still burns an average of 40% more calories just due to muscle density.

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not 40%.

[–]nemma8831/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not just height that trend women's bmr it's the higher fat % etc. Men have a higher bmr even when adjusted for body composition.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The reality is always eating small portion sizes, never drinking wine, and never having more than a bite of any treat, and eating all home cooked meals consisting of lean meats and vegetables, but still being hungry in between meals to lose weight..

[–]Texastentialism 1 points [recovered]  (95 children) | Copy Link

I said something like this in another thread the other day.

Guys always say "hur hur just put down the fork, CICO, it's easy!!!!" but when they find out how much you actually eat they're flabbergasted. "You mean that's ALL YOU EAT, ALL DAY???" Yes because that's what it takes to stay 120lbs at 5'7.

My husband and I are taking a trip this weekend and we'll eat out for every meal. Knowing this, I've been restricting myself to 1100 calories a day this week so I'll have some calories to spare this weekend for restaurant meals and drinks. In case you didn't know, 1100 calories is an ABSURDLY SMALL AMOUNT OF FOOD.

I go through a big jar of pickle spears every two or three days because when my stomach starts to growl at work I eat pickles because they're a low calorie snack. Do you know how fucking sick I am of pickles???

I'm also taking appetite suppressant pills that make me jittery as fuck and make it hard to sleep.

All that and I'm still 15 lbs over where I'd like to be, mostly due to all the social functions I've had to attend these past few months. Birthday parties, weddings, family reunions, etc. etc. There's always a reason to eat and people get bitchy or worried or offended if you don't. And then I have to listen to my husband make fun of me for weighing out a serving of chips or skipping breakfast and lunch so we can eat pizza with his friends for dinner. It's bullshit. Either shame me for being fat or shame me for doing what I need to do to keep weight off, you don't get to do both.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew15 points16 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

its almost like men and women have different metabolisms

[–]allweknowisD7 points8 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

I think that’s the point...

Men don’t get it cause they’re always able to consume more calories

[–]LeftHookTKD3 points4 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Men have more muscle which means theyre also craving more food. A 120lb women will not crave as much as 95% of men

[–]allweknowisD4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Any studies to back up that women don’t crave food as much as 95% of men?

[–]Five_DecadesKnows what women want. Knows he doesn't have it0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Metabolism and caloric intake are balanced by the body.

In my 20s when I exercised and was more muscular I'd have symptoms of a metabolic slowdown when I went below 3000 calories a day. My maintenance was about 4500 a day.

I knew even more muscular guys who had metabolic slowdown below 4000a day.

You'd get light headed, dizzy, obsessed with food, etc.

[–]allweknowisD2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A simple no would have sufficed

[–]Five_DecadesKnows what women want. Knows he doesn't have it0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Metabolism and appetite are balanced by the body.

If your body needs 2000 calories a day you'll crave about that amount. If you need 7000 a day you'll crave that amount.

[–]LeftHookTKD0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do I really need to go fish out studies that say that muscle burns more calories than fat? Your muscles need more calories to maintain them. DO you really think your body will have the same craving as a 90lb person despite weighing at a muscular 200+ lbs?

Show me a study that says women crave just as much as men DESPITE have significantly less muscle mass. That is a far bigger claim than mine.

[–]allweknowisD2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t make a claim.

I asked for a study to back up his 95% claim. And I highly doubt that with the level of obesity in the world that food cravings fall entirely down to muscle mass.

So apologies, but I think I’ll pass on backing up a claim that you made up in your head and I never made.

[–]nemma8831/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why do you assume women would not crave food because their bodies are trying to gain fat rather than muscle?

[–]LeftHookTKD0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you HAVE more muscle then you will need more food to fuel it and your body will naturally increase your appetite because it knows it needs more. Your body needs more food to maintain muscle than it does fat.

And men have more muscle naturally, so it makes sense that they crave more.

It's really not a difficult topic and shows that many women here don't really understand much in regards to "getting fit." Look up "does muscle affect appetite" in google and do your own research

[–]nemma8831/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I did some research. There's is notes on feeling hungry when working out. I already knew muscle requires more energy, but men and women are not the same so I don't presume the hunger response, relative to what your body thinks it requires is the same.

When idle a women's body is always trying to gain fat ready for pregnancy. It's not as reactive as gained muscle need more food, it's a constant of need more fat need more food.

There's also brain imaging studies that suggest when trying to distract yourself from eating when hungry, womens brains do not react in the same way as mens. That women will continue to feel hungrier. Which is interesting, maybe sheds some light as to why men consider it easy not to eat when hungry, they don't continue to crave food in the same way.

I'm pretty jelly of male brain and hunger now tbh.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

i don't think appetite actually works that way

[–]LeaneGenovaBreaker of (comment) Chains1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I sure as hell wish it did. That'd make my life sooooo much easier.

[–]LeftHookTKD 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do your own research. More muscle = bigger appetite. Get some muscle fatty

[–]LeaneGenovaBreaker of (comment) Chains[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bold move, insulting a mod. Enjoy your timeout.

[–]LeftHookTKD0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Actually it's exactly how appetite works. The more muscle you have the more your body will need to fuel. Do you really think a 300 lb man will ever have the same appetite as a 90 lb woman?

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

why wouldn't they?

[–]xKalistoSAHM of Yurop0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because when your body needs more calories to live you crave more calories than when it needs less calories to live.

When I started breastfeeding I suddenly felt hungry like never before simply because I was expending extra 500ish calories to make milk.

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman13 points14 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. This thread is wild AF. Like, I think a lot of these men are greatly overestimating their own abilities to just "be hungry" and be around people enjoying wonderful food that you can't.

​

Also, they keep saying shit like, "Don't eat the whole meal at a restaurant!1!1" Well, most restaurants don't have the calories listed with the entrees so eating half the meal could be 400 calories or 600 calories. Those 200 calories make a difference if you're trying to stick to 1200 calories a day. Shit's intense, exhausting and overwhelming. Also, people enjoy drinking. I love to drink! Now? I haven't had a drink in a month because they are just useless calories and it makes me sad.

[–]PlainSlim[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is so true. It's not as easy as just "don't eat the whole meal". It's staying slightly hungry all day to save some calories to go out, but even still you still can only afford to eat half the meal. So you do eat half and you're barely satisfied but you have to stop and basically try to distract yourself from the other half of your delicious dinner that is practically staring you down, begging you to eat it, until you can get a box and get it out of your face. All while everyone around you seems to be carelessly eating and drinking everything they want, begging you to try their onion rings or their 800 calorie banana split fudge brownie .

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Gahhhh! Yes! Absolutely infuriating. Also, weirdly embarrassing? Like, to keep having to explain to people "No, I don't want to try your stuff and not because I don't like you, it's because those few bites are detrimental to my entire diet."

​

I swear, we could make a killing off a chain of healthy restaurants that listed the calories and only made FILLING, low cal meals.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's the middle of the night, I'm starving, and agree with this whole thread.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

A couple weeks ago I drank for the first time in probably a year for my friend's birthday. I had a wicked hangover the next day and I was actually GLAD because it meant I was puking up all the junk I'd eaten/drank the night before.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nice try but most of the calories would have been assimilated by then!

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Oh jeez!! That sounds awful! But.... hoorah?? lol

Also, are you a fellow Texan?!

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Lol. Yes I am! Howdy!

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Howdyyyyy! :D

Isn't it crazy how prevalent the drinking culture is in Texas? Like, it is so bad that when I switched to drinking vodka sodas versus my normal bourbon ,whiskey, IPAs, people were a little confused. But it really got weird when I just wouldn't drink at all. It sucks because I really enjoy drinking and spending time with friends but I'd practically not have to eat that day if I'd want to enjoy myself. :(

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ugh yeah. And I live in Austin so it's not just drinking culture, it's happy hour/BBQ/taco/food truck culture. The double whammy of "Hey let's have some drinks tonight!" and "Hey let's try out that new food park!" is a lot.

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. I lived in Austin for a long time and good GOD it is insane how many calories you consume if you're just 'hanging out with friends all day.' No shit, me and my buddies would go the Green Belt, drink a six pack each, go to Congress and eat some food and then go to a bar. I SWEAR that is a 3000+ calorie day.... WTF was I thinking?!

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Oh my god I counted calories religiously for two years and ever since I have had no problem roughly eyeing it out

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

That is awesome, good on you! I'm still having trouble because it sometimes baffles me that a salad can be 1000+ calories because of the 400 calorie dressing, Meanwhile, skinny fajitas are 400 calories each. Shit is wild, yo.

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Prepare and weight and count your own food for 2 years, you will learn lessons about the composition of your body that will blow your mind

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I've been thinking about weighing my food! What scale do you have and was it affordable? 😂 Kind of broke here.

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s a Taylor food scale

Very basic model, I think it was $10-15

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Perfect, thanks for that! Went ahead and added that onto my amazon list :D

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't think most women's issue is food. Its gym and understanding 1-3 hours of physical activity is NORMAL and the MINIMUM if you want to look good as a woman

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't think most people understand that. For the health conscious women who believe in CICO, we do factor that in immediately. Unfortunately, burning fat for us is much harder than burning fat for men is. That's ok, it is just the reality of the situation.

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lots of it comes down to doing low impact cardio instead of high impact weight training of HIGH weight low reps

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup, that's exactly it. I ran track for 11 years growing up and did a lot of cross country. I tell any of my friends that low impact cardio is your best bet for calorie burning. Personally, I only do low weight high reps weight training about once a week. I should increase this because my arms are weak as shit. 😂

[–]oneprettycoolcat0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. This thread is wild AF. Like, I think a lot of these men are greatly overestimating their own abilities to just "be hungry" and be around people enjoying wonderful food that you can't.

It's called willpower and being an adult. I'm not a slave to my desires like women apparently are.

Well, most restaurants don't have the calories listed with the entrees so eating half the meal could be 400 calories or 600 calories.

Then don't eat out if it's so hard for you. You can do things like cook for yourself.

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

lol Everyone has desires, some people are slaves to them and some are not. Whoever said people should just be giving into these desires? I certainly don't.

Also, eating out is a social thing. You don't have friends who enjoy eating out with you? I sure as hell do so I make sure to do it in moderation and I cook for myself like any grown ass adult should.

[–]oneprettycoolcat0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

lol Everyone has desires, some people are slaves to them and some are not. Whoever said people should just be giving into these desires? I certainly don't.

You're the one who is talking about being unable to say no to food when you are around it.

. You don't have friends who enjoy eating out with you?

So go hang out with them and don't stuff your face. I don't see why this is hard.

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

lol where TF did I say that I was unable to say no to food? I don't think you fully read my comment. That's ok though, it is there for you to re-read and enjoy to your hearts content! :D And, again, where did I say I went out and stuffed my face with my friends? I don't. Peer pressure just sucks and feeling envious over food choices is a normal response.

[–]oneprettycoolcat0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

lol where TF did I say that I was unable to say no to food

"Like, I think a lot of these men are greatly overestimating their own abilities to just "be hungry" and be around people enjoying wonderful food that you can't."

Peer pressure just sucks and feeling envious over food choices is a normal response.

Yes, it sucks and is hard for a child. How old are you?

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for quoting me! :D Unfortunately, I didn't see anything in the quote that says I can't say no to food. Would you mind pointing that out again? Maybe we can even do re-write together!

Ah, so peer pressure is only applicable to children? I didn't know that at all. Did you do a study on this to show that no adults are subjected to or have to deal with peer pressure? I would love to read it!

I'm a grand ol' age of 28 years old. Currently typing with my cane on a giant keyboard as we speak!

[–]oneprettycoolcat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah, so peer pressure is only applicable to children? I didn't know that at all.

Yep. Being able to ignore peer pressure is something that comes with adulthood.

[–]ferretsRfantasticBlue Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It sure does and that's why I encourage people to ignore it. Is peer pressure still loathsome, absolutely! However, surrounding yourself with peers who greatly identify with your well-being is key to being a responsible human being!

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Either shame me for being fat or shame me for doing what I need to do to keep weight off, you don't get to do both.

AMEN SISTER

[–]PlainSlim[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

THANK YOU! I love the guys that tell me I need to eat more all the time. If I actually ate the way they wanted me to, I'd gain 40 pounds and they'd snicker behind my back because I'm a fat pig who can't control myself.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm also taking appetite suppressant pills that make me jittery as fuck and make it hard to sleep.

I did phentermine too. Hated it.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I saw you say that and it scared me a little lol. I just started a few days ago and I'm hoping my body will adjust. It's not TOO bad, like it's tolerable, but I cut back on my dosage a tad today to hopefully cut down on the side effects.

[–]philomexaSPITE ALONE HOLDS ME ALOFT0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

phentermine

so like, where y'all getting this shit? Indian pharmacies? I know US Dr. can be real sketch about prescribing it.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm taking this. It's not the real stuff but it seems to be working pretty well.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why do you eat all that stuff? You're making space for high calorie junk food for no reason.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't "eat all that stuff." I normally eat 1400 calories a day and make all my own food. We're going on a trip so I won't be able to do that and I'm adjusting accordingly.

[–]OutOfOranges[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

CMV

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

First of all, quit comparing what women have to do to what men do. We are sexually dimorphic species, end of that. And yes there is a wider spread of acceptable female bodies, and yes it's easier to just watch what one eats than pumping iron. No one is arguing for this.

Even if a woman maintains a normal caloric intake, genetics, childbirth, sedentary job, aging, etc, takes its toll. For example, this girl:

https://www.healthymummy.com/tone-tighten-butt-thighs-september/

She isn't obese before, but there is no way she is going to get rid of the cellulite without dropping a lot of body fat and growing muscles so the droopiness tones up.

Eating too few calories over time puts the body in starvation mode and it will hang onto fat reserves. Hence, skinny fat and diet failure.

Every overweight woman and man I know who has successfully achieved and maintained weight loss over time did so by training hard, and eating a good amount of balanced food.

Diets have a 98% failure rate. For a woman to maintain todays ideal of body beauty, she has to train. No one is shirking personal responsibility, but there is a lot of ignorance out there.

The girl who starves herself on 900 calories a day and is scared of weights because of "bulk" is setting herself up for failure.

[–]Cyclone619y2j0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

For a woman to maintain todays ideal of body beauty, she has to train

Women CAN obtain the beauty standard. Most men absolutely can't unless they take steroids.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, I'm talking about the standard, not the ideal. Men don't have to take steroids to achieve this.

[–]baltasarblack7 points8 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

WTF is up with all these reactions. Do men really have this little empathy?

Summary of reactions: - but it’s hard for us too (right we know, there are also threads on that topic. Where coincidentally woman do not whine that it is also hard for them) - stop complaining and eat less (yeah being hungry all the time and eating one meal a day and never drinking is a perfect way of living a happy life) - you can be attractive when you are fat too (I saw dozens of reactions in this sub where men showed that they despised fat woman or that it’s considered a fetish)

I am actually getting more and more tempted to give up on men and try out gay stuff, being bi already makes this decision easier.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Do men really have this little empathy?

Honestly my reaction it to go tit for tat. I made the thread on how men have it first and the very first replies for like three hours were "we don't care" or some variation of it. This thread was made very soon after on how women have it super hard too for srs you guys, copying the title almost exactly to make it clear this was a comeback and not just an original or neutral discussion.

I try to be empathetic but honestly lets get real the men of PPD didn't pick this fight and didn't turn it into one.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I didn't think of bringing it up but this thread proves why it had to be. It proves women more empathetic because none of us were invalidating men's hardships but here men are speaking out both sides of their mouths, invalidating ours, while severely underestimating how much were putting in to lose weight. And getting all the details wrong..

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

(I saw dozens of reactions in this sub where men showed that they despised fat woman or that it’s considered a fetish)

The thing is, you don't have to please or appeal to all men, you just need one who finds you attractive. (Unless you're into polyamory, lol.)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well. If it makes you feel better, I’m not going to date a tubby guy.

I’m pretty small. Not the skinniest anymore but just slightly underweight in terms of BMI.

[–]if_i_could_trade 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

I think you're overstating the case a little, but at the same time I agree with you.

On one hand:

Woman who are "just not fat" are typically making most of their meals, eating mostly nutritious food, working out 4+ times a week, barely eating out. And side note... try running on the treadmill on a limited number of calories. Running is already hard, now you have to do it while you feel like garbage and you are slightly lightheaded

Nah, this just isn't true. To "not be fat" you pretty much only have to eat an appropriate number of calories, with exercise almost completely optional. There are lots and lots of skinny people who don't work out or care about fitness, and just happen to fall into that bodytype by accident.

On the other hand... yes, I do think that girls have different diet and discipline problems that most guys can't relate to.

Men have more testosterone than women (which helps to build muscle, so we get 'more' out of each calorie), we can get away with being slightly less in shape because our attractiveness is less based on looks, and it's less visible when we're not in shape because we're not wearing tight dresses when we go out.

So a snack (say a 500 calorie bag of lollies) that would have virtually no impact on a guy's life will really quickly add up for girls.

I'd ignore most of the responses trying to act cool by saying that getting up early, going to the gym every day, always eating lean, and counting calories isn't "hard". There are god knows how many people (girls AND guys) that find this stuff really fucking hard, and I bet themselves included. Yes, keeping in shape is hard.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

theres also a lot of not-skinny people who eat reasonable calories every day. I just ate what made me not feel hungry and i gain.

[–]oneprettycoolcat0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Then what you ate isn't reasonable.

One way I broke myself of the habit of eating too much was fasting. After doing a few 48 hour fasts, I realized that what I felt as "hunger" in the past wasn't really hunger but instead just being a bit peckish, or even just being bored.

I just ate what made me not feel hungry and i gain.

Then you're eating too much and eating like shit.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

or I'm eating what a healthy person 2 inches taller than me would eat.

Edit: I make healthy food. I just eat 50-100 cals more than I should regularly with occasional days where I have a dessert or something from a restaurant. Like most Americans. Occasionally meaning like once a month

Edit: the content of the food isn't what's Making me hungry, it's my brain ...I think

[–]oneprettycoolcat0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Congratulations, it's still an unreasonable amount for you which is all that matters. If you eat more than you expend, you gain weight. Smaller people expend less, but on the other side, you don't need as much, either.

I'm a really, really tall man. So, if I want to gain weight (Which I do, because I'm required as a man to be jacked if I want to be sexually successful), it means I have to eat a ridiculous amount of food because my size means I need more in order to not die.

The problem ultimately is your willpower.

Edit: the content of the food isn't what's Making me hungry, it's my brain ...I think

It's much easier to eat 2000 calories of worthless carbs than it is to eat 2000 calories of fat or protein.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't eat lots of carbs. I've been making meals from vegetables and meat for years. I just don't understand how small my portion sizes need to be. I need to weigh them to understand. And when I eat my portion size, I am not satisfied for long, I am hungry because I am used to eating more

Eating an extra 100-200 calories is making one small mistake, one small misjudgment, one "oh I think I ate healthy today so let me have a treat", and that adds up. It's the holidays and events where you didn't "care" and then are surprised the scale went up....and stayed there. And let's say you're not focused on it. It would be trivial to be unaware of the "energy" you're consuming and confused why the scale just only ever says one number. You could try calorie counting and find it overwhelming to weigh out 10 ingredient recipes, but find yourself unable to eat bland food because in your heart you love to make authentic, flavorful, healthy recipes for you and your man and you want to enjoy them a bit too much. Maybe you go out to get sushi with the person your with once a month and you both eat poorly. But it's "ok".

Most Americans need to weigh pros and cons. Is a perfectly healthy "whole 30" like diet worth it? Is it worth it to live without enjoying food? Or can it just happen in moderation focusing on good healthy ingredients and portion sizes? I believe in the latter. But I believe my judgement is terrible and my appetite is unusually large for someone my size. I legitimately want to eat over double the portion sizes I am giving myself of completely healthy food of lean meats and veggies and healthy fats.

I love!!! Cooking with olive oil for instance. 3tsp and 3tbsp are night and day but someone who isn't mindful will overdo it, and everything, so mix it in with occasional splurges and you're basically fucked. You will slowly and surely gain weight eating healthy foods at satisfying portions and the occasional "why not life's short" moments.

But what I think works is tracking. I'll be tracking because if I didnt I won't lose weight and might gain if not careful. But I want to be able to enjoy a treat now and then - without derailing weightloss. There are really good healthy alternatives to many "treat" foods, so with the right mindfulness and willpower to not stray from what you alotted yourself, you can lose weight. It's possible.

But easy ? No, like I said. Not tracking and going against my instincts would be easier.

[–]oneprettycoolcat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

sizes need to be. I need to weigh them to understand. And when I eat my portion size, I am not satisfied for long, I am hungry because I am used to eating more

Yes, it's in your mind. We get conditioned to think being a little bit peckish is actually hungry. Try some fasting. Go without any food for a day or two to see what actually being hungry is like.

Eating an extra 100-200 calories is making one small mistake, one small misjudgment, one "oh I think I ate healthy today so let me have a treat", and that adds up.

Welcome to the life of a man.

But easy ? No, like I said. Not tracking and going against my instincts would be easier.

Losing weight is very, very simple. No one said it was easy. It is, however, much easier than getting ripped. So, count your blessings you don't have to be jacked to be sexually attractive.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I spent many months being starving due to my disease a few years ago and it scarred me a bit. Hunger makes me go insane sometimes. I get hangry. It's very upsetting.

"No one said it was easy" um...then what are we arguing about exactly? I've just been explaining why it's not easy. And I'm sexually attractive at this size too no doubt. I don't understand what it means to lose weight to be sexually attractive. I do it so I could love myself and feel better about myself, I want to be sexy for myself. I don't know why. If I did I would turn it off because my man is into me. I wonder if I have BDD and it's ok to be like this, but in the back of my mind it says "no! You must be skinny and hot! Work harder!" And I oblige even though I'm stressed out about a lot of other stuff.

Men have it harder because if you opt out of this stuff you opt out of the SMP. Me? I just have huge boobs and men are like hey there.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Also here in Italy it is terrible. You see pizza, nutella, gelato, pasta, pasticcini everywhere. There is a giant foodie culture. In Milan as it is an international city there are also many ethnic restaurants like sushi bars, ramen bars, hamburger places... and in order to socialize you need to get there. No one wants to socialize eating a apple or a salad.

Yet men wonder why it is difficult to stay skinny. We women need to keep out every time how much we eat. Men have a much faster metabolism and do not have hormones which makes keeping fat for future pregnancies. Yet when they see a slightly chubby woman they think she eats three times what she needs.. bullshit

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not over eating is hard for men and women in today's society, if they are unwilling to do some basic math and count calories. Its still easier for women to do so since no one gives shit if woman has muscles or not. Bird armed women get laid easily, bird armed guys do not.

Get close enough to any skinny woman (even those that are supposedly 'naturally' skinny) and you will learn that they probably spent a period of their life dealing with at least borderline disordered eating/exercise habits.

Bullshit made up terms.

Woman who are "just not fat" are typically making most of their meals, eating mostly nutritious food, working out 4+ times a week, barely eating out. And side note... try running on the treadmill on a limited number of calories. Running is already hard, now you have to do it while you feel like garbage and you are slightly lightheaded :D.

EAT LESS. Fit women have to work hard, but women don't have to be fit to look good, just not fat.

serving sizes cater to a 6 foot overweight dude

Oh FFS, don't eat the full thing then. This isn't hard, the fork just stays on the plate and you ask for a box to bring the meal home.

[–]LaughingGaster666Purple Pill Man4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not eating was easy as fuck for me when I moved out. I already never ate breakfast, but being the only meal prep person makes eating a lot way less enticing. It’s literally the lazy option.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

yeah i pretty much starve myself so that i can fuel my alcoholism without getting fat. i eat out and then take half the meal and give it to my roommate just to get rid of it. i'm like permanently hungry lol

i think people forget that modern aesthetics for attractiveness in adult women is to weigh less than is natural for a childbearing woman. women are supposed to be basically chubby at all times naturally

[–]Cho_AssmilkArrogant RP S.O.B.1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

i pretty much starve myself so that i can fuel my alcoholism without getting fat.

Start power lifting 4x a week. You can be an alcoholic and still enjoy good food cause your body burns so much from those huge lifts.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly. When I don't exercise or obsessively watch what I eat, just eat when I'm hungry and stay moderately active (I walk 8000-10,000 steps just in my daily life, hardly sedentary), I plateau at around 140lbs. That's like my "default" weight that my body wants to be, and it's a healthy, normal weight for a woman my size. I also look and feel like a fucking cow at that weight.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So much this

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man13 points14 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Boy, have you picked the wrong person.

Not being fat takes about zero effort. You simply eat less than maintenance. This is why I am baffled by people who say that they are too busy to lose fat. To lose fat, you eat less, so busy people should love that eating now takes less time out of their oh-so-busy schedules.

Young professional social life revolves around going out for food/drinks. An average restaurant meal is over 1000 calories, plus a drink or two

Let's assume this is true, which I think it isn't based upon being a former young professional. If you know you are going to have a big restaurant meal, you budget for that shit. Skip breakfast and lunch or eat smaller meals so the social event doesn't put you over your calories for the day. If it does, adjust your caloric budget the next day.

No, I don't give a shit if you're hungry. Feeling hungry is not the end of the world. Drink some black coffee or something.

Then think about college, where the average social life includes 2-3 nights of heavy drinking.

Women never take responsibility for anything, including the fact that they never take responsibility for anything. Heavy drinking is a choice. Who's holding a gun to anyone's head to chug down seven appletinis three nights a week?

Running is already hard, now you have to do it while you feel like garbage and you are slightly lightheaded :D.

Did you know that running is not necessary to be a healthy weight? Stop having that daily Starbucks milkshake that you call coffee.

Yeah no problem, we're just living in a world where serving sizes cater to a 6 foot overweight dude, and we're supposed to maintain a 1600 calorie diet.

Have you considered preparing a meal? Most houses and apartments have a whole room dedicated to this purpose.

[–]PlainSlim[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

And AGAIN... all over this thread. I love it! The diet advice that is sooo so freaking obvious I can't believe any dudes think ANY slim woman does this as more than a rare treat. "Stop having that daily Starbucks milkshake". Uhh please the last Frappuccino I had was like 10 years ago. "Did you know that running is not necessary to be a healthy weight" yes I actually did know that, but some sort of working out, paired with light eating the rest of the day, IS necessary to eat a normal meal around friends at night. It's honestly hilarious all these "revolutionary" ideas that guys are doling out in this thread.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

but some sort of working out, paired with light eating the rest of the day, IS necessary to eat a normal meal around friends at night

This is such a common myth. People end up exercising more and then get more hungry so they eat more. It's a lot easier and quicker to just skip a meal. I can water fast for several days without missing a beat.

Also, how often do you really feel compelled to eat out with friends? Every night? Maybe if you women could learn how to prepare a meal, you wouldn't need to eat out as much. You'd save money, save calories, and actually pick up a skill that interests men.

I'm a human being. I know what it takes to cut weight. The only disadvantage women have in this regard is they tend to be smaller (although this is less and less the case every year) so they have to eat less to stay within a deficit. Boo fucking hoo. I go days eating zero calories so I don't need to hear about what a torture 1500 calories per day is.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's the reality of PPD. Every asshole here thinks they have some revolutionary idea when it's basic advice or some shit normal people do ten times a day.

[–]Skuggasveinn5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

First impressions. OP lacks willpower and/or quick to pull the blame gun.

[–]arcticshqip7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

If it is so easy for women to stay perpetually hungry and only eat about 1000-1500 kcal a day, then why obese men exist? Wouldn't it be even easier to eat 2500-3000 kcal a day and be at healthy weight?

Red pill men think that only size 0 is accebtable when also sizes 2-6 are at healthy weight.

[–]Cyclone619y2j6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Such BS. I've found women right up to size 14 attractive.

Women expect the 6 feet tall guy with broad shoulders and washboard abs.

That is 100x more difficult to obtain. No wonder so many guys are on steroids now.

[–]PumpkinSub2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can empathize with some of what you wrote. I'm back to calorie counting after having my baby and I forgot how hungry I get when I track. I tried going to 1200 calories a day once and I was so cranky and miserable. I remember my stomach growling constantly. I'd go to bed hungry, wake up hungry, only feed my body coffee to curb it, and then I would run 3x a week. I looked great but I was hungry a lot and I could never really get very good at running because I had cut my calories down so much. To be fair, I wasn't training to be an athlete, just wanted to look good in a dress. Oh and yes, I made every meal and rarely ate out because making my own meals I could control the calories and get better options in my body. Going out to eat, how in gods name can some places manage to make a basic 600 calorie meal out to be 1200 is beyond me. So yes, it takes time, energy, and focus IMO. You almost HAVE to make it yourself because if I ate that 1200 meal that would be the only thing I could have for the day.

​

In a typical day, I have coffee with cream and that has to last me until 1pm, where I then have a 16 ounce shake with water, protein powder, half a banana, and 75 grams of berries. That has to last me until 7 when I can finally chew a meal. Most days its not terrible and I don't mind but there is usually one day in the week where I can't handle it and eat a hamburger. There are some things you just can't fit into your day like birthday cake, dumplings, bagels, etc etc.

​

I'm 5' 9" and nursing a baby ATM and trying to lose the baby weight. Well, my milk supply dropped lower than what my baby was drinking. The moment I ate more food, my body made more milk. Sigh... so I have to eat more than I want right now in order to make sure my baby is fed. Now I know why women can't drop the baby weight too quickly after having a child. Definitely don't be fat when you get pregnant because losing the weight won't be an option for a long time.

[–]xKalistoSAHM of Yurop0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm 5' 9" and nursing a baby ATM and trying to lose the baby weight.

You do realise that nursing is extra 400-500 calories right? You can't nurse on 1200 calories. At 5'9" 1200 calories is probably pretty unhealthy anyway.

I'm 4-5kg above my pre-baby weight but there's time for that after I'm done with this little pirranha sucking the life out of me.

[–]Nobodykers2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Im starting to think the women here have trouble losing weight because they force their body in a catabolic state by starving themselves. If you do that you become weak and lose muscle. Whenever you do eat in this state your body stores as much fat as possible.

Best is to workout and eat a lot of low calorie stuff and protein, and only drink water. This way the body builds muscle and burns fat. More muscle makes it easier to maintain fat as well.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not being fat is not significantly harder for women than for men.

"Just don't be fat" and you are automatically 7+/10.

But not being fat is not enough for a man to be attractive, unlike for a woman.

[–]Bayard202 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Look there. Is it a bird? Is it plane? It's a lame attempt at a "gotcha" brought to you by the women of PPD!

[–]ChewedandDigested 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

At 5’3 and 105lbs as a woman your TDEE is about 1200-1300 calories. You can get up to 1500 if you’re working out.

That means if you ever want to feel full you live on lettuce, low fat cottage cheese, yogurt, and maybe some boiled eggs. Your meals are 300-400 calories max if you want to eat three of them a day. If you eat a cookie your coworker handed you, forget lunch. That was your lunch. You spend years keeping anything as calorically dense and addicting as bread or peanut butter out of your house.

And if you need to lose weight for whatever reason? A 500 calorie deficit on days you don’t work out means you get an 800 calorie diet, max.

It’s. Fucking. Hard.

[–]songofmelancholy 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

its not even that men don't know. its they they DON'T WANT TO KNOW.

if a man every finds out how much work a beautiful woman puts in to be beautiful, its like the illusion is gone. THey just have to fucking get over it. Do you want a fat slob? Do you want a woman with acne all over? Then let her go to the gym. Let her eat like a starving rabbit. Let her spend her money (ITS NOT FRIVOLOUS SPENDING) on beauty and skincare and hair stuff. So she can stay HOT FOR YOU.

Any man that gives a woman shit for spending her money or even his money to look beautiful for him is a fool and i have no sympathy for him when his woman drops the ball. he made her drop the ball. there's no such thing as a beautiful, nonobsessive woman.

[–]CanisLupusMigrans5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agree with OP, and with this, pretty much 100%. After years of marriage my wife has gained a certain amount of weight, which does not really bother me as she has given me many children and I feel she's a great spouse.

But, from pure curiosity I often wonder how the skinny women do it - until I see what they eat for lunch. Like, wtf, THAT'S what you're eating? A few lettuce leaves?

Nope, this is one area where I'm pretty sympathetic to the distaff set.

[–]OutOfOranges[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

automod

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only fatties in both camps underestimate it.

Thing is a woman can be beautiful/high smv by being either fit or thin. I know plenty of women who hardly workout, or maybe run 3x a week, and just control it with diet. Women can also eat less and be full, they aren’t starving themselves.

You think eating less is hard? Trying eating all the damn time. Putting on muscle mass as a dude let alone a tall dude is something the average woman can’t comprehend. I’ve been chubby, I know what it takes to lose weight. Most women can’t fathom what it takes to pack on 30 pounds of muscle.

And lol at using social life as a crutch. You don’t need to be drinking more than 3 nights a week or 1-2 drinks during. You don’t need to eat out all the time. Have some agency lol

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[–]GridReXXit be like that13 points14 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I agree. I have friends who are actual trainers and dieticians who would say “duh” to this. The men around here just like to play dumb. Everyone with common sense knows women’s bodies are made to store fat in ways men’s bodies are not; and that men’s bodies metabolize and build quick twitch muscle (muscle burns fat) in ways women’s bodies do not.

  • Men Around Here: oooooh! Boobies and softness and feminine curves! habba habba habba 🤤 — men and women are different!

  • Also Men Around Here: clearly men and women are exactly the same and calories in / calories out should have identical effects.

Like dude. When the female body notices “restrictive calories in” its immediate reaction “is oh no bitch what are you doing how the hell am I supposed to menstruate? Great you won’t. Congrats. You can’t incubate a baby on 2% body fat. Omg store all the fat! Store it!”

I have to pretty much not eat and be on constant keto fast just to not gain weight. My body naturally wants to retain fat. It just does. And it sucks because I AM CONSTANTLY FUCKING HUNGRY. lol I like food. A sprinkle of iceberg lettuce and a slice of salmon is not filling / satisfying.

And then your man is all, “omg eat with me let’s eat 5x a day!” And then you eat one fuller meal with him and gain 3lbs over night. It’s a cruel world! 😂

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would upvote this a hundred times if I could.

Also....for all the guys here like to pretend they're evolutionary biologists, they don't like to talk about the REASON women's bodies are designed to store fat more than men's. It's that oh-so-beloved fertility they're so attracted to except when they're not. Being slightly overweight is nbd, fertility-wise, for a woman. Being slightly underweight, however, is a killer--which makes sense when you think about how you need extra calories to carry a pregnancy. I have friends who got just a little bit underweight when training for a marathon, and they straight-up stopped menstruating. But all that supposed evolutionary nature of men's attraction to 2019 beauty standards goes right out the window when this topic comes up.

[–]saad_al_din0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

feel sorry for women now. all i do is sit around all day and watch anime but eat 3000calorie but maintain a 15%body fat lol

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah you sound like majority of my male friends. Must be nice 😂

[–]saad_al_din1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah its nice slowly day by day im trying to more pushups and squats. my friends in sports clubs point out that i can keep up with them just with my genetics so one day i really want to see my limits.

[–]neualgae 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

What I think men don't really get is how physically uncomfortable weight loss is as a woman. Dieting or maintaining the borderline-underweight look that's in style just does not feel good. You're constantly obsessively thinking about food, freezing cold all the time, your periods get irregular and you're moody and your sex drive plummets, that sort of stuff. Like yes CICO is obviously technically correct, but even with the willpower to do that, women have a stronger physical reaction to weight loss (something about hormones, I'm not going to pretend to be a scientist here) and for some reason it's hip to be skinny enough that it probably affects your fertility these days. It's more than just "boo hoo I can't eat cake".

That compounded with the absurd food culture in the US. I spend waaaay less mental energy and food prep time since moving abroad where eating out isn't a landmine of "which menu item probably has the least calories, so I can order that, and then carefully portion out 40% of it to get an acceptable number of calories for a meal".

(and no I am not fat, my BMI is like 19-20, but I'm not quite the culturally "ideal" weight, and when I was 10 lbs lighter my body was clearly not happy about it even if men were)

[–]LifterofThingsDelicate Feminine Flower8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I feel like this is a solid QED.

"Men don't understand that it takes work to stay slim."

Women: "yes I carefully track my 1200 calories a day"

Men: "LOL NO, NOBODY EATS THAT LITTLE"

The thing speaks for itself. lol

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right? This whole thread is fucking hilarious.

[–]nemma8831/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I wish I could eat 1600 calories without gaining weight.

[–]rightmeow6 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you eat a lot of carbs or sugars? I weigh like 128 lbs and eat 2000-2500 calories/day. Probably closer to 3000 calories leading up to my period. No idea how I stay the same weight, but I eat A LOT of fat and protein.

[–]chaddad90007 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The number of presumably fitness-oriented redpills saying "women don't even need to exercise just don't stuff your face" is really bizarre.

[–]Wandos7naproxen sodium7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's true it's not hard not to become obese, but there's a huge difference between 'not fat' and ready to wear a bikini and look good in it this afternoon. Just being 'not fat' doesn't make a woman attractive, it just makes her not fat.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would post a popcorn emoji but it’s too many calories 😢

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave11 points12 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yes, and “I like a woman who can eat a cheeseburger and chug beer, and isn’t some high maintenance boring salad eating calorie counting Princess.”

[–]geyges 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

I like a woman who can eat a cheeseburger and chug beer, and isn’t some high maintenance boring salad eating calorie counting Princess.

Are you looking for dates at a local tractor pull?

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Are you just saying words now?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That did sound like something a redneck would say lol

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew13 points14 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

thats why men are shocked women gain 20 lbs immediately. they were murdering themselves trying to keep that 20 lb off

[–]Cyclone619y2j2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

they were murdering themselves trying to keep that 20 lb off

Hyperbole.

They were doing what any responsible person is expected to do.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

well who am i to argue about the female experience with men

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes6 points7 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

I said something like this in another thread the other day.

Guys always say "hur hur just put down the fork, CICO, it's easy!!!!" but when they find out how much you actually eat they're flabbergasted. "You mean that's ALL YOU EAT, ALL DAY???" Yes because that's what it takes to stay 120lbs at 5'7.

My husband and I are taking a trip this weekend and we'll eat out for every meal. Knowing this, I've been restricting myself to 1100 calories a day this week so I'll have some calories to spare this weekend for restaurant meals and drinks. In case you didn't know, 1100 calories is an ABSURDLY SMALL AMOUNT OF FOOD.

I go through a big jar of pickle spears every two or three days because when my stomach starts to growl at work I eat pickles because they're a low calorie snack. Do you know how fucking sick I am of pickles???

I'm also taking appetite suppressant pills that make me nauseated and jittery as fuck and make it hard to sleep.

All that and I'm still 15 lbs over where I'd like to be, mostly due to all the social functions I've had to attend these past few months. Birthday parties, weddings, family reunions, etc. etc. There's always a reason to eat and people get bitchy or worried or offended if you don't. And then I have to listen to my husband make fun of me for weighing out a serving of chips or skipping breakfast and lunch so we can eat pizza with his friends for dinner. It's bullshit. Either shame me for being fat or shame me for doing what I need to do to keep weight off, you don't get to do both.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Psst: what appetite suppressant are you using? Jet lag is fucking my appetite up.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ta da

Warning: Side effects may include irritability, causing you to lose your ever-loving shit on a reddit thread

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you. I can only imagine how hard eating as low cal as you are when you are a picky eater. I am over here nomming on 8 calories kelp noodles and Kim chi... low cal food is often so WEIRD!

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ugh yeah. I'm a picky eater already, and then I have a lot of food restrictions due to IBS which means there are a lot of fruits and veggies (among other things) that I can't have, foods that I like and would otherwise eat but they make me sick. Blargh.

I munch on pickles and dehydrated okra all day. Lol. But even the okra has sneaky calories so I have to be careful with it.

[–]concacanca2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yup. Thats before you add in the additional burden women face with all the clothes and makeup.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What an absolute shit show this thread is. Women don't have to manage their weight to find a man, a fact which literally wrecks the OP's premise. Then there's the legions of fat shamers on here telling women how easy it is to maintain a healthy weight. They're just as cringey. Body shaming women just adds incentive for them to add a revenge factor to their already existing hypergamic urges.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT.

Also, LOL at these deeply triggered responses. The same guys who believe Evolutionary Drives Uber Alles, AND that asking men to cultivate a charming demeanor is setting a task of near-Herculean difficulty are all suddenly saying "lol, being in mild-to-moderate pain all day everyday and going against one of the most basic survival drives is nbd."

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also- WHY DON’T YOU SMILE MORE OFTEN?!

[–]allweknowisD5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

And this thread proves OPs point to a T lol

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You thinking something is hard doesnt make it hard

[–]allweknowisD5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don’t see anyone saying that on the male version of this thread.

And this sub likes to pretend it’s neutral

[–]nemma8831/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Americans spend north of $60 billion annually on diet and weight loss products.

While the effort is largely mental, the idea not eating is easy is just plain false for the majority of Americans. If it was easy, majority of the country wouldn't be fat, they certainly don't want to be fat.

[–]wageovsin1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Professional social life involves that many possibly free meals, from a blue collar workers perspective. This is insane

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Honestly it's all about genetics. Looks aside for a sec, although looks generally are a good indicator of good genetics. I know people that have been full blown drug addicts the majority of their life and are 80-90 years old, chain smoking cigarettes since 14 etc etc. as far as fat goes,, connect the dots. For the last 3-4 million years people have been doing high activity all day with little food. Now all of a sudden women think sitting and working is the same as working. Or that yoga is the same as working out, while pigging out on Panda Express, chocolate and lazy weekends.

I've dated women who ate as much or close to and worked or worked out just as much as me and stayed just as attractive as me. I know women that eat a ton and stay skinny. I've seen women who have kids and it blows them out and destroys them and I've seen women 3 months later be completely fine and running around the block. A good metabolism is good genetics. Simple. Same with cellular retention and regeneration, immunity, physical ability, emotional stability etc etc. you get the point.

[–]vitorcasf0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

r/fatlogic

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

😂👍🏻

[–]mrp_awakening1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"just don't be fat" is actually pretty easy. Get on keto and wait 6 months. Not the stupid crazy high fat type... eat your protein. You'll be at a healthy weight in no time... I guarantee it. I lost 40 lbs in 6 months, and have managed to keep it off for 6 months after. While lifting. And adding muscle.

[–]pizza_tron1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Here is a post I wrote just the other day...

As someone who works out a LOT. it's way easier for a girl to get a body of comparable attractiveness than it is for a guy.

(generally speaking) With the right diet... You can realistically lose 1 lb of fat per week, guy or girl. But a guy needs to have muscle before he can lose fat. Otherwise, he just looks like a 12-year-old. It takes about 1 month to gain 1 lb of muscle. So before a guy is even in a place where he can start losing fat and looking good, you're probably looking at a year plus time to lose fat. On top of that, a guy's fat loss process isn't the same as a woman's. If he cuts wrong, he will lose all of that muscle he just gained. So a guy needs to be in the gym the entire year in addition to the time he is losing fat. For a girl (or any human) to just lose fat, she really doesn't need to go to the gym, she just needs to diet. Could she have a better body if she goes to the gym? Yes, absolutely. But she could get a comparable body to the guy who has gone to the gym for a year+fat loss time without going to the gym at all.

Btw, running on a treadmill is not the most ideal way to lose fat. Heart rates above 140 burn muscle and fat. Fasted stair climber or walking at steep incline @~130 bpm is ideal for losing fat and not burning off muscle, which is the shape of your body.

TIPS: When it comes to working out hungry, it's just part of the game. I always do cardio in the morning before eating or after weightlifting when my body has depleted glycogen stores. If you need some help though, pre-workouts are great to keep you motivated while operating on an empty tank. Or, just caffeine before working out. Black coffee or tea. No additives with calories like a frappa-cappa-fatta from Starbucks.

​

When eating out, I always rock a ceasar salad with chicken. If there is too much dressing ask for half dressing or dressing on the side so you can decide portion. If you are eating something else, eat part of it and take a doggy bag home for later. Realistically though, you want to meal prep and have everything prepared out in advance M-F. This can make up for the weekends unless you are really going crazy.

Intermittent fasting is also very popular right now and on top of fat loss, it's good for autophagy (youth/cell maintenance). So what you call starving yourself can feel great when done correctly.

​

If you still feel bad when limiting calories or fasting, a ketogenic diet might be for you. This won't really allow for a lot of drinking but really limits hunger. Whenever I am cutting, my goto is a keto diet.

​

If you feel really bad when fasting/keto make sure you are taking enough multivitamins, vegetable powders, salt, potassium, and magnesium. It's not necessarily food that your body is craving.

​

If you want to limit calories when drinking, never drink beer. All of my female friends drink vodka soda. If I am drinking while on a fitness kick, whiskey on the rocks.

P.S. There are ways to lose fat and gain muscle faster but then you are really getting into the weeds on strategy. I kept it simple above for 90% of people.

[–]erykaWaltz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

nah the simplest thing is:

eat 2 grams of protein per kilogram of body mass, or more

maintain a calorie deficit

workout as often as you can, ideally every day.

​

There. its that simple.

calorie deficit doesnt burn your muscle as long as your protein intake is high enough

anecdotal evidence:

i know plenty of guys at boxing gym who have low body fat and very well toned, muscular bodies. they also have incredible stamina during cardio exercises-a must for a boxer. our trainings often include dozens minutes on jumping rope, running and long workouts on the heavy bag, which are some of the most cardio intensive things you can do, waay past running on treadmill.

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Who said you needed to go out and eat 3 times a week and drink just as much? By chance, are you some type of "influencer" or marketer?

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm an engineer and often need to go it 3 times a week for work and family events. Also, a glass of wine is not a wise choice if I'm trying to be satiated on my cals. I'll need to fast / gym / restrict portions throughout the entire week , and then on top of that starve a bit extra one day if I want a glass of wine.

[–]erykaWaltz0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

just refuse these events.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

In what world do you live in that it's acceptable to not go to work and family events because you're dieting? Sorry but that goes against my values. I am always trying to be there for my family and always taking the opportunity to do work events.

It's more sensible for me to ensure going out doesn't derail weight loss efforts by being conscious of the choices I make. But to be accurately conscious it involves a lot of time on my phone looking up nutrition info and tracking what I ate. And if I can't have wine, I won't have it.

[–]erykaWaltz0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

in my world. in my life.

sorry if my life experience is different from your own.

if you want to hang out with your family, show them you care, you dont need to eat. help them, spend time with them, chat. its that easy. no idea what "events" you are talking about. some kind of huge celebrations like weddings with extended family? no, i literally cant phantom what you were saying there

my family, being my parents and grandparents, dont require me to do anything like that. as for "extended family", i have no contact with them so i dunno.

as for work, i always turned down offers of socializing with co workers. its that easy. just say no. coworkers dont make good friends anyway, there is too much competition and jealousy at workplace.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Graduations, birthdays, and anniversaries. It's all immediate family , aunts uncles grandparents cousins mom dad brothers and sisters.

Saying no to coworkers events doesn't align with my values to be social and build relationships with people. I don't drink when I go out and get slack for it sometimes but it's better to be out there so people get to know me, these people are also team leads and I want to make sure I am putting my best foot forth so I come to mind when people ask themselves who they want on their next project. Of course my work output speaks for itself, but add a friendly personality on top of incredible work ethic and that's a recipe for climbing the career ladder.

[–]erykaWaltz0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

like i said. i dont have any contact with "uncles and aunts", these people have no meaning in my life so i cut them off as soon as i became an adult.

birthdays, anniversaries? just be there for them. if you cant, send a text message with congratulations. tbh in my family no one really celebrates birthdays so much(only kids do), but maybe its a cultural thing.

most importantly, a relationship with family is build not on anniversaries, but by being there for them, every day or at least when they need you. like a good friend.

as long as you are a good and caring friend to your family, would they really go mad at you only because you didnt show up for some birthday celebration? no way!

family is nothing else than very close friends whom you have decided to bond with for life. whether its your parents, or spouse, or your children, these irreplecable people are your "family". family doesnt need blood bonds.

some "relatives" that are connected to you by blood, are not necessarily your family. they can be total strangers to you and if your only interaction with them is on such anniversaries and formal meetings, its high time to remove them from your life and move on.

as for your relationships with your coworkers, its your choice. if its good for you, its ok. but dont say its a "must". its a path you have chosen out of your free will, a path that a lot of people like myself dont follow.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My aunt and uncle practically raised me. my cousin is my best friend. Her kids bring joy to my life. Unlike you I'm not callous and cut people out my life since their "title" doesn't fit in with my concept of who should be close to me. They are close and special to me ergo, they are in my life and I derive joy from being in theirs.

And there are 8+ kids in my family so we have birthdays all the fucking time for them too.

And relationship with families is also being there for those events. Those events include quality time and being with eachother. I'm of Italian descent so sometimes the food is also a big focus, but usually I can get away with eating healthy even if I reject 90% of my options.

And I have a busy life - we all do - these events are ways of us making time for eachother. Usually if we can't make it to an event because a friend is having an event, we will come over another day. Idk man I don't need to justify my social life to you. The point is you don't have to be an Instagram influencer to always have shit to do.

I never said it was a must, but you must realize there are consequences to actions and not attending any work events have a consequence.

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't take much work to not be fat. I don't see the issue here. Get your calories from lean protein and vegetables/fruit. Consider going to restaurants and drinking alcohol as a treat - just don't go overboard and stuff your face with massive portions and drink 5 times your weekly allowance in 1 day.

Also women can be pretty fat and still get sex or boyfriends relatively easily. I know several fat women and they have like 3 FWB's on the go and a big circle of beta orbiters. They can usually get relationships if they are kind, sweet, loving, don't act masculine and willing to put a man first.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I prefer a woman who can eat like a pig and have all that excess fat go to her boobs and ass. Mmmmhmmm. None of that "I'll just have a salad" shit, would rather her fat than that.

Most hot girls I know don't really diet that much, they just have them good genetics. So I disagree its all hard work. I know fat women who eat salads all week and still stay fat. Need to change them genomes not that diet.

I myself am a guy but I eat like a pig and can barely put on a kilo (of fat).

[–]crystal_wb20F PPW2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

As someone who fought an eating disorder in the past I have to utterly disagree with you. Losing weight, having a healthy diet and maintaining weight is not as hard as you claim it to be. I agree that it's not as easy as "just don't be fat", but it's certainly not so hard that you have to plan your whole life around it. If all you can think of while eating out is "how long do I have to starve now because of this" your mindset is fucked up, you might even have an eating disorder yourself.

[–]PlainSlim[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Honestly it's true... I'm not sure if I officially had an eating disorder, but at my lowest point I was eating 1200 calories a day every single day. I wouldn't let myself go over even if I was starving. I had no energy, even walking up one flight of stairs after work was taxing. I was depressed because I skipped most social events since I was nervous about being tempted by food. When I did actually go to some social event, I pretty much didn't eat all day so I had room for a 600 calorie meal with friends and a few drinks. I'm doing much better now, making a point not to isolate myself, eating closer to 2000 calories mostly healthy stuff, but even on that I still feel hungry for a portion of pretty much every day, and I get really stressed out when I know I have a few social events in a row because I'm nervous about the weight gain. Anyway... it's gotten easier and I hope that continues. It's been about 3 years since I started calorie restricting and I hope I can just get to the point where I eat healthy and don't overdo it like some people seem to be able to do without thinking. I'm not there yet though :/ I'm actually curious how you went from having an eating disorder to being able to just be healthy without too much challenge.

[–]xKalistoSAHM of Yurop1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The highest my BMI ever was was 25 and I never did any of that BS.

Americans just pig out on their calories having these huge meals and syrupy coffees and then whine that they are fat.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm gonna be completely honest with you: as I was reading your post all that I got out of it is "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."

I'm a garbageman. I'm not even gonna go into what I eat, how much water I drink in a day, how many tons of your crap I pick up in all types of weather by hand a day, how much cardio and what type of cardio I do, what my weight lifting routine looks like, what my average day looks like etc. etc....that's all irrelevant.

If any of you ladies are in nyc and want to accept my challenge of attempting to keep up with me for 10mins I'm all for it. If you succeed I'll buy you a $100 gift card to the establishment of your choice. You won't though, which begs the questions what store do I want my gift card from?

Let's face it: I burn more calories in one night then you do in a week just by getting in and outta the truck and hanging off the back so if any of y'all think I'm supposed to be impressed by you choosing a salad over a burger or a light beer over a dark one or doing your little bullshit elliptical at half speed right into your booty workout, YOU MUST BE OUT YO FUCKING MIND!

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Right which is why we have to eat like birds. I like my engineering job btw..so it leaves little time to make home cooked meals, plan a wedding, and workout for extended periods of time

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

How'd you get into it?

[–]pngmafia97my type is chadcucks2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As a fit girl dating a fit guy, it’s way more work for a guy to maintain the stereotypically attractive male body than female body. Avoiding huge meals and putting in a few good days at the gym is monumentally easier than going through bulk cut cycles to build enough muscle and decrease sufficient body fat to get a six pack. Guys who look the way many women demand have turned nutrition and exercise into a science more than women who are “not fat” ever will

[–]------__------------1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Do restaurants not serve salads in 2019?

[–]philomexaSPITE ALONE HOLDS ME ALOFT5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The 'salads' found at typical restaurants are 1500 calorie bombs full of croutons, avocados, eggs, bacon, cheese, wonton crisps, fried chickestrips, nuts, seeds, and 130 cal per ounce dressing.

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Clearly you never order salad.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Healthy options in resturants and convenience places are absurdly high calorie, to a degree that you're better off just getting a burger because it'll have less calories fairly consistently.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is it more work than men do to "just not be fat"?

Calories in, calories out!

[–]VUELO_LA1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not being an alcoholic and not overeating are not hard things to do.

If you think heavy drinking half the nights of the week is normal, that’s pretty sad. What void are you trying to fill?

[–]ItsOverBoyosLDARKeep calm and get cucked by Chad1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Maybe people should actually learn how to cook their own food instead of pigging out on high calory shit food in 'restaurants' and have a somewhat proper workout routine. Preparing your own meals does not have to take a lot of work. Alcohol? Easy, just don't drink it and cut out those fucking sugar loaded soft drinks as well. Being fat is a choice and blaming portion sizes for being fat/obese is actually ridiculous. Self control and responsibility, not even once. Lol Murica.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

You can cook your own food and still not be slim

[–]ItsOverBoyosLDARKeep calm and get cucked by Chad0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Great revelation.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Terrible sarcastic quip. Btw, it means that just "making your own food" isn't enough to lose weight thus proving you also under estimate how much work women need to put in to be slim

[–]ItsOverBoyosLDARKeep calm and get cucked by Chad0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

If you cook your own food you obviously have more control over what and how much you eat. You are either willfully obtuse or intellectually dishonest. Reading comprehension, you should try it.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Maybe people should actually learn how to cook their own food instead of pigging out on high calory shit food in 'restaurants' and have a somewhat proper workout routine. Preparing your own meals does not have to take a lot of work. Alcohol? Easy, just don't drink it and cut out those fucking sugar loaded soft drinks as well. Being fat is a choice and blaming portion sizes for being fat/obese is actually ridiculous. Self control and responsibility, not even once. Lol Murica.

This whole comment reeks of "learn how to cook, fatties, that's all it would take FFS".

You don't even go into how you need to cook your own food AND go hungry between meals and fight off that hunger somehow. It takes work! And cooking your own food in it of itself is work, I have many people I know at work who are shocked I make my own meals every day and I always bring lunch. Their lifestyle imo is shocking to me, I mean I just can't conceptualize why I'd want to eat unhealthy takeout every day (you know it's unhealthy because you can't control what goes into making it).

It's not really special to cook your own food , but if you're like me and already doing that, the advice isn't enough to be slim. Being slim also includes eating at a caloric deficit if you're not slim, so that can be difficult too.

[–]xKalistoSAHM of Yurop0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

AND go hungry between meals

Just how much do you have to eat between meals?? o_O Have an apple and glass of water gosh.

[–]Epoch789None but red if rly had to pick0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Was going to say some version of this. Eating properly and an exercise routine goes a long way and isn't too much to ask. Deprivation = not binge eating and binge drinking? I thought that was sensible, conscientious, adult behavior.

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Just" can mean the idea is simple or the process is simple. "Dont be fat" is a simple idea and a very difficult process.

[–]toysjoeMGTOW1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You’re born not fat.

You’re not born an Arnold.

[–]dawnpriestess1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

European women do not seem to have a problem here. Asian women do not seem to have a problem here. African women do not seem to have a problem here. South American... Do I need to continue? Almost none of them are fat like the obese US women who would prefer men to adjust their standards rather than exercise a tiny shred of self-control.

[–]PrimeSinister2031pink/blue 70mg vyvanse pill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Europe does, with UK leading the pack in obesity rates. Asia is catching up fast, too.

It’s true that Western culture is very obesogenic, though, and the point you made on self control is spot on. Do these people also go home in the middle of their workday because they’re bored, or give up their kids for adoption because they’re tired? Maybe not, but it says a lot about work ethic.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bro I have seen some chunky fuckin' Asian women in my time. Some of the fattest women I've ever seen were mainland chinese who clearly never set foot in the west until they were adults.

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[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And the irony is they’ll claim women don’t understand how much work it takes to have a muscular body.

So let me see...

Totally impossible for 99.99999% of men to look any better than this

Totally easy for 99.99999% of women to look like this

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

When I was in college I couldn't gain weight on a bet. Skinny to the point where a couple friends staged an intervention for my supposed bulimia. Ha! It was just my metabolism and it was awesome. Then after college things slowed down and well, I work out a lot to stay slim. And I did phentermine for awhile. Yikes, avoid that drug.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ugh, this is me. I used to be so skinny I would actually go on weight GAIN diets because I hated how bony and lanky I was. Then I turned 26 and my metabolism went down the tubes. It also helped that when I was young I had jobs that had me on my feet all day; now I'm at a computer for 8 hours a day and that takes its toll.

Which reminds me, I need to go outside and get my 500 steps for this hour 🙃

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then I turned 26

GIRL. it was like night and day. when i hit 26, i HAD to workout, when before i could just cut out carbs and lose 10lbs. its insane.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The times which I spent counting calories were the most miserable of my life. I was doing all to feel better, but the more I tried to fit into an ideal the more I felt like shit. Try having parents who called you fat since you were a child, making you feel like all your worth relies on your looks, micromanaging every bite that comes into your mouth... Try to do that without developing a fucked up relationship with food, exercise and weight.

(I was not fat - i look back at pictures of tiny!me and it horrifies me that my parents perceived me as fat. )

Look, I agree that if I want to be skinny I have to put in the effort to lose some weight. But tons of women have emotional baggage that makes this a bigger deal than it may seem. Not to mention that poor impulse control that comes with certain mental health conditions (such as ADHD) and there is such a thing as defensive weight that some victims of sexual assault put on.

I am not saying that it can't be solved either. Just that portraying thinness as an easy performance for all women is extremely simplistic and misleading. It sometimes takes far more than willpower.

[–]Russelsteapot42Non Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The reality is that whether avoiding getting fat is easy or a struggle for you depends almost entirely on your body's production of your hunger hormones Leptin and Ghrelin, and your sensitivity to them. People who struggle with weight typically have a balance of these hormones that encourages them to overeat. But people with a different hormonal system will feel no desire to overeat, and will often feel more energetic when they have an excess of calories.

[–]thhjhyyff0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I ate <1000 calories a day to lose weight.

It was uncomfortable for 3 days. All I had to do was drink water when I felt hungry outside of my regular meal times.

It literally took less effort to lose weight than to put on weight because I had to spend less time cooking and washing the dishes, and drinking water/orange juice is much cheaper/easier to procure than regular food.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd agree if coming across some optimal in shape women in their 30's or even 40's it's likely they're disciplined and working out most every day in cardio and eating carefully. When I was at the gym, I'd noticed some of the women regulars doing just that with their regular times on the treadmills. I think most women over 25 who don't exercise will most likely add it on in the following years if they're not extreme dieting all the time.

[–]damageddude0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've got two stories.

Back when I was around 20 or so my brother had a very petite girlfriend who, as my mother phrased it, was a size 2 on a bad day. I thought nothing about it as my mother did not really care for his GF. Some years later I was describing her to a female friend or date (don't recall why, at the time I had some good stories about her) and when I used that phrase she asked me where I got it. I mentioned my mother said it and she just chuckled. I had never thought about it before then but I suddenly realized my mother, who was definitely not a petite woman, was making a time of the month joke.

Another few years later, about six or seven months before our wedding, I decided I needed to lose some weight before the big date so I enrolled in WW. I would go every week to weigh in and my future wife would go with me to meetings as we would enjoy a post weigh in meal right after (cheat meal). And since I was basically dieting and we lived together, she naturally also started dieting. Now she was never obese (except when pregnant, she took full advantage of those times) so by time of the wedding she was thinner, not crazy thin but thin for her. My mother was worried her wedding dress would fall off of her (guess she never heard of alterations.

I've seen plenty of pictures of my mother when younger and she was always not petite, even in her thinner days, unless she REALLY worked at it. I think she was just jealous.

[–]oodsigma0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't get why this is gendered? Everything you've said applies to men in exactly the same way. You think guys who are not fat don't have to deal with the exact same thing?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's all about good genetics. I saw a 65 year old grandmother yesterday that I would have gave it to, she was hot.

[–]CyJackX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can entertain the idea that the willpower required to avoid eating may be quite different to obtain similar quality of mental health. It feels good or normal to eat when you want to, and it probably was a good instinct in our prehistoric conditions. Now that we have hyper nutritious food, caving to that feeling non stop may feel bad.

[–]chukb20120 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So I don't really understand your point? Basically you're saying it takes a healthy life style to be a healthy weight? I think that's a given. Is there a problem with that. Honestly most women, and most men I see that are overweight are that way, because they are mostly sedentary. Either they work jobs sitting behind a desk, or they sit at a computer, or TV screen more than going outside, and well doing any activity. Honestly I just don't understand your post. If you can't dedicate activity, or the gym, and eating healthy then you're not going to be skinny. This goes for men and women. So??

[–]snarky-0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you're eating so often at restaurants (expensive) that it's single-handedly making you fat, you've got enough money to throw at the problem if you wanted.

But even so, there's ways around it. Order a half or a child's portion. Or, order a regular sized meal but eat only half. You could take the other half away with you for later.

[–]iFunnyPrince0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You could start by not drinking so heavily.. If weed is up your alley it's far less harmful for your body, it's socially acceptable at lots of parties and believe it or not, it actually helps you lose weight. Lost 70lbs in about 6 months when I started smoking

[–]FAPPENINGWITNESS0010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Go to a gym. There's a reason most of the people working out tend to be 60-70% males. Think about what THAT means and who needs to give whom credit. Also, building muscle is far more difficult than simply losing weight. Guess which gender prioritizes weight loss more than building muscle?

[–]Cheese_Head_690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol stop complaining.

I was a fat kid my whole life until I started going to the gym in highschool.

1 hour everyday at the gym helped me finally lose the weight I was always embarrassed of and gain muscle mass.

[–]Ladyofblades0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Honestly depends on where you live and who you're surrounded by.

Living in a coastal or sophisticated metropolitan area will net you a population invested in their health and looks, and therefore the restaurants, groceries, and services will be tailored to their needs. More people will be walking, engaging in sports and fitness and be on clean eating or some diet, and socializing tends to take that into account. If you didn't luck out and end up in the suburbs your perception of what is lean tends to be swayed by what you see and people will be having huge servings and bottomless margaritas at the local Olive Garden clone, and driving everywhere. Being lean in the American suburbs is much more of a difficult task than a large city.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Welcome to the American Midwest, where the elastic waistband was invented!

[–]SouthernOhioRedsFan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The idea that staying thin is hard for everyone is impossible for me to believe. There are without a doubt people who eat whatever they want without gaining weight. Otherwise you wouldn't see such obsession with weightlifting among redpill dudes, obviously because their skinny ectomorphs who don't realize no cares about muscle, only lack of fat. I'm not necessarily saying their metabolism is faster than average either, because appetite is mostly psychological. I think thin persons have weaker desires than us fat (read: normal), not stronger willpower.

[–]I-wanna-GO-FAST0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

All restaurants serve salads. Nobody is forcing you to have more than 1 or 2 drinks.

You just described how hard it is for you to avoid temptation, not hard it is to avoid being fat.

Also protip, try doing keto. You won't even have to count calories or exercise.

[–]mouse_trap20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it depends on the woman.

My BMI was between 17 and 19, and I put zero effort into staying slim diet wise. My diet control was pretty much don't have chips for lunch and cake for dinner. It's because I didn't have such a huge appetite. So ez mode to keep calories low. Funny enough my impulse control sucks so being thin would say nothing about that. I also enjoyed lifting and some sports, but again, zero effort just when I felt like it. My cardio sucks, never really did any.

I'm also not from America, I heard serving size is a problem. But I'd simply not eat it if too much.

My point is that don't be fat is complicated. It is the effort required to maintain that that is different between women.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don’t run on the treadmill if you’re trying to lose fat. You’ll end up losing muscle along with it! Keep your heart rate elevated to a max of 20bpm higher then your resting heart rate.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting. So your complaint is that women are expected not to eat as much so as to remain thin.

​

Men on the other hand are expected to not carry any fat, so they need less calories, but also to build muscle and for that they need to take in more calories.

[–]H2orocks30000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm very familiar as a guy, Ive basically copied any and all behavior my ex did that I could back up with evidence. There where a couple I Couldnt but yeah. It's what we all should be doing

[–]zerotakashi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

ah yes. It is annoying. I don't even drink - I just have to eat food my college makes and they serve very caloric foods vs. inexpensive but less filling stuff like fruits. Male athlete food.

[–]canadienne-francaise0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe this is incompatible with your professional obligations, but the only way I have learnt to deal with this is to avoid going to the restaurant. Or when I don't have the choice, I try to pick the healthiest option without buying a drink or dessert. I have health issues that prevent me from exercising. I can only walk for minimum amounts of time. Regardless of this, I'm 120 lbs. I eat super healthy when at home (animal products + occasional fruit) and it seems to do the job. New research seems to indicate that strenuous exercise may not help with weight loss because it ultimately just makes you more hungry.

[–]Pastelitomaracucho0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck it. We all make an effort.

[–]DarkMountain6660 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait a second.... Wasn't there a post stating the opposite for men just recently?

And all she had to do is lose weight, by the way?

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My boyfriend had some rice cakes in his truck yesterday. I asked him what had ever possessed him to buy them, and he said his sister had given them to him as she had tried a new variety but didn't like them. I tasted one and said, "OMG, if I were eating these things as a snack, I'd be depressed too!"

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or you can be like me, and not be able to stuff down all the food required to get fat even if you tried. I imagine there are women like that.

[–]JesterTheTester120 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My gf eats pure shit and she's not fat. I eat like shit and I'm not fat.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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