TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

77

Lie to Men: Women are darling little perfect beings for whom looks do not matter and if you are a good human being, she would see through that and pick you just for it

Reality: Women are human beings with desires and while good is imp, it is just the basic step and u need looks, confidence and a calm personality ( not get angry and can control ur fear) with a stable income

Lie to Women: Men who value things like chastity ( low n count) youth-beauty are just insecure basement dwelling virgins and reside only on the internet, majority of the men are secure about women's past, and are not shallow to go just for youth and low n cunt and love ur accomplishments/career/job etc etc

Reality: While job, career is something u need to do for ur survival, please note that it is not something that attracts a man, a man 99 times out of 100 will choose the young clerk who is short/petite, young and who is a virgin

over a go-getter "smart" WOMAN who has accomplished a great lot in her career


[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼80 points81 points  (76 children) | Copy Link

Lie to Women: Men who value things like chastity ( low n count) youth-beauty are just insecure basement dwelling virgins and reside only on the internet, majority of the men are secure about women's past, and are not shallow to go just for youth and low n cunt and love ur accomplishments/career/job etc etc

I was never told this. I was told:

You are a nice girl from a good family. You will (eventually) meet a nice boy from a good family who will love you and treat you well. He will ask you out on dates and then to marry him. You’ll wear a white dress and get married in the same Catholic chapel your sisters got married in (afterall, the family heavily financed renovations on it). Until then, guard your heart (via guarding your body) because boys have β€œhormones.” They will go as far as you will let them and then, likely, they will break your heart. Old(er) men are predators. No matter what they say, you are not mature, you are not as interesting as women his age. You are stupider, have less say and are more likely to be manipulated. You’ll get pregnant or get your heart broken. AVOID.

You should know your worth and not allow yourself to be disrespected. You will go to college. This has no bearing on the boys you date but it is expected. You will date boys who go to/went to college (did we fucking stutter about the β€œgood family” thing??). You will end up in a career that will allow independence and fulfillment because that is what daughters of people like your parents do.

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil28 points29 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

No matter what they say, you are not mature, you are not as interesting as women his age. You are stupider, have less say and are more likely to be manipulated. You’ll get pregnant or get your heart broken. AVOID.

True too.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼34 points35 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

This is why the manosphere claims that older women are β€œjealous” of middle aged men going after 18 year olds is so odd to me. No, I think it’s gross because I was told it was gross over and over from the time I was 11. Why would I be β€œjealous” of attention from gross men?

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS20 points21 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You forget one thing. Manospherians oftentimes have a dark past as a white knight who listened a lot to women, read a lot of women's opinions on shit etc. And if there's one persistently recurring motive, it's that of the older single woman vocally complaining (in TV, articles etc.) about how men are pigs who only go after younger women and don't date women their age who are infinitely more entitled to their attention.

Just because you (deliberately?) ignore these women doesn't mean that manospherians made them up.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I am not ignoring them. I am just not seeking them out- I have no idea why manospherians would either other than to rub salt in their wounds and feed their rage.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because lots of us tended to incorporate these guilt-trips into our dating scripts before becoming redpilled. It's basically spreading the word to guys who need a reminder why you shouldn't listen to (older, single) women who ostensibly are worried about the state of dating in general but actually are mostly complaining why things haven't turned out in their favor.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

who ostensibly are worried about the state of dating in general but actually are mostly complaining why things haven't turned out in their favor.

Sounds like RPers to me...

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's how it works. They bought someone's spiel about objective standards and tried to work on that and it blew up in their face. They turn it around because all is fair in love and war. Or else they're trying to turn around something that worked on THEM and hoping it'll work on the next rube.

[–]stonedkyuby(β—•α΄—β—•βœΏ) join the gaycel army3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

People in the manosphere need to find some way women can get their comeuppance for denying men. They created the wall in order to have their poetic justice.

[–]sparksjoy 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

This pretty much what I was told in (Catholic) high school, and I've lived my life by it.

My parents nodded and smiled and went along with it...

and then asked me if I needed birth control and condoms when I turned 16 lol. I don't blame them though. They're staunch Catholics in virtually every other sense but they said they wanted to put my health and safety first.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds a lot like my in-laws. They were staunch Catholics, but they were also teen parents (my husband's oldest sister was born when they were 17). My MIL refused to let any of her kids make the same mistake, so Catholicism be damned, she drilled safe sex into their heads from the time they were preteens.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah my mom made it clear that BC was always available. Out of wedlock pregnancy was NOT an option.

[–]philomexaSPITE ALONE HOLDS ME ALOFT5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Hello, are you my long lost sister?

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There are DOZENS of us!! ✊🏼

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Catholic family confirmed.

[–]AndemanMan5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

what are your feelings about what you were told? do you know if it's true?

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They were mostly right. I did marry a nice boy from a good family. We didn’t get married in a Catholic Church but other than that, it was all spot on.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds lovely.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I guess your parents didn't grow up in the same 80s atlas did lol.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I am 35 and was a late in life bonus baby. My parents are in their 70’s. My oldest sister is a few years younger than Atlas. She was told the same things I was, though.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes that would make them older than atlas.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right but I would guess Atlas would claim they just missed the wild times by being too old. And I think Atlas has talked about her experience being a bit wilder than her peers due to her affinity for prole men?

[–]Cho_AssmilkArrogant RP S.O.B.0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

was a late in life bonus baby

Ya, I was an accident too

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Joke’s on you! My dad sold a business and came home to my mom and said, β€œwhat do you want?! I boat? A new car? An addition to the house?” And she told him she wanted one more baby. She’s pretty blunt about family planning and I was planned. πŸ€·πŸΌβ€β™€οΈ

[–]Cho_AssmilkArrogant RP S.O.B.2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Same here. It's just a joke in my family. My mom wanted to have one after me cause it's 10 years between me and my sister. Doc said no though. She actually lost one before me too

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ugh- I am sorry to hear that. Glad she got one last little one!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Her family sounds very UMC + religious that's gonna be the main difference.

[–]DebatePonyLet's ride!4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Sounds about right. Save Baptist. And we got married in a Methodist church.

Oh and, for a while when I was much younger, your virtue is like gum, you only want one person chewing it.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh god- the never ending virginity metaphors. My Catholic school would always pull that but my parents were quick to correct it. They were Cafeteria Catholics and hated that rhetoric. My mom just harped on how attached I would get and the likelihood of heartbreak which worked like a charm on me!

[–]DebatePonyLet's ride!2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, it's really fucked up, and fucked me up for a long time since I was hearing it from not only the church but my parents. But, yay for being a black sheep, the youngest of four to divorced parents, and somehow convincing them to let me go to public school and state college (only kid in my family who never went to a religious school/college).

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ugh. I am sorry. That would have been really hard to reject if it was coming from all sides. Glad you fought your way through!

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this is superb advice except needing to get married in Catholic Church, and I would change college to "college or good technical school".

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS2 points3 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

You are a nice girl from a good family. You will (eventually) meet a nice boy from a good family who will love you and treat you well. He will ask you out on dates and then to marry him. You’ll wear a white dress and get married in the same Catholic chapel your sisters got married in (afterall, the family heavily financed renovations on it).

sounds mostly nonsensical, although I can see this being a reasonably sustainable system.

Until then, guard your heart (via guarding your body) because boys have β€œhormones.”

pretty smart

They will go as far as you will let them and then, likely, they will break your heart.

possibly

Old(er) men are predators.

probably

No matter what they say, you are not mature,

almost definitely

you are not as interesting as women his age.

wrong

You are stupider, have less say and are more likely to be manipulated.

very likely

You’ll get pregnant or get your heart broken. AVOID.

definitely a risk


So minus the "stick to your community"- and the "older men actually prefer women their own age"-nonsense, this is indeed stuff that women should be told. Maybe with a larger dose of ambiguity tolerance, but still.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼8 points9 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Why do think you should have input on the advice families give their daughters? This advice serves the female imperative. Why would a male RPer’s view of β€œnonsense” have any bearing?

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Read again what I wrote.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼4 points5 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I did and I am still confused as to why you think your opinion on each point is applicable. You don’t have to like it or agree- it’s not for you.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

That's the point - I agree mostly, as in: This is the sort of stuff I would convey to my daughters as well. Exceptttttt, as I said, this irritating "you'll find Prince Charming in this community here I promise"-thing.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Why is it irritating?

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Apart from the 19th century vibe I am getting, it is a really big promise to make.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

And? Why are the promises that UMC parents make to the their daughters β€œirritating” to you?

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Please don't be obtuse.

[–]maplehobo 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's not irritating for me personally, but it's not grounded on reality, how does that serve the female imperative?

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Given that is pretty much what happens to women in my circles, it is 1000% grounded in reality.

[–]maplehobo 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

They all found their prince charming?

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (21 children) | Copy Link

And how common this thing is in the US? But I guess in liberal areas not at all.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼10 points11 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

This is a class thing, not a liberal/conservative thing. This what my sisters are telling their daughters and what would tell my daughters (minus the married in a church bit) if I had any.

[–]doctor_awfulChad ThunderDoc1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Huh, I wish. Portuguese and UMC/HC here and the girls from my private school ran the CC as much as anyone else.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

And what classes are likely to have such attitudes?

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

The ones who are still getting and staying married- UMC and above.

[–]pngmafia97my type is chadcucks1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup. I was told the same thing as your OC, minus Catholic church and (surprise!) plus East Asian immigrant parents.

It’s not just a religion thing, it’s an educated UMC, stable family values thing.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

So, WC and LMC are not getting and staying married?

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Statistically, no.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure that's all about social classes, though.

Like... rich educated people don't have casual sex? If so, it's just American thing.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I am not saying they never do, I am saying the girls are given a specific path to follow and casual sex is a deviation from it. I am also saying they eventually do get married and stay married and it’s highly probable (even looking at advanced age for UMC marriages) that they are pairing off younger (given average lengths of dating & engagements). There’s just less time for UMC people to do the STR thing. OOW marriages still carry A LOT of stigma in my circles. It happens but it is a scandal. This is not about religion, it’s about class based values and mores.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I wonder if that's just an American thing.

In Russia there basically are three classes: factory/grocery store/etc. workers, office workers and rich people. I'd guess former are more likely to be alcoholics and that daughters of alcoholics are more likely to have risky sex (no condoms, public places, etc.), but that's not exactly casual sex qualifier.

[–]Zippo-Cat0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is a class thing, not a liberal/conservative thing.

Yes, all the liberals teaching their daughters to be chaste and prim and proper and eventually they'll have a christian wedding. A real epidemic.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you think affluent, intact families (even liberal ones) are encouraging their daughters to have illicit, casual sex, you are sorely mistaken.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not chaste/prim/proper, but dating a nice man or woman who won't break her heart, finding a life partner (or partners if they're poly, who gives a shit) to grow old with, sure. I'm liberal as they come, don't believe in a god, don't give a shit about propriety but I still want my kids to find happiness and in my opinion life is easier as a solid, caring, stable family unit rather than going at it alone or with a series of flings. Can someone be happy without a partner? Sure. "Landing a husband" is no longer the most important thing for young women and that's good, better than my parents' generation for sure. But finding someone to share your life with is no less precious a thing just because times've changed.

Conservative christian rich people are more inclined to push abstinence on their kids and we all know how well that works. I'd argue that while sex is fun, STDs and accidental pregnancies are life-changing enough that casual sex should be avoided (at least while young and bad at decision-making), and if you ARE going to have casual sex you MUST be as safe as possible to mitigate the risks -- plus there's the risk of heartbreak/getting attached. Add in a helpful discussion about the hormones released by sex, the possibility of bonding with someone who isn't worth your while, being pragmatic about your future... hopefully my kids like me enough to seek my input on who they date seriously.

[–]philomexaSPITE ALONE HOLDS ME ALOFT6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I grew up in a liberalish area of Illinois (suburbs of Chicago), and word for word these are the lessons I got from my Catholic immigrant parents.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm guessing there are lots of devout parents in America. As Atlas says, that's one of the reasons why hookup culture faded.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

But all these parents are atlas age....

[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, and Atlas is childless. But honestly it looks like:

Daughter, you are a nice girl from a good family, don't repeat my mistakes (CC riding). *somewhere inside* Ah, what a wonderful times they were...

Okay, this might be offensive.

[–]praisethesun799Not actually a fag πŸ˜‰3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reminds me of those who frown upon drug use and the β€œdegenerate youth” while still looking back at the 60’s and their non stop partying drug fueled carefree lives back then with nostalgia and how it was the greatest decade of all time lol

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah pretty much: β€œI did some stupid shit in my youth. Sometimes it’s fun being stupid. But don’t repeat my mistakes.”

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"Good family"?

Is he gonna buy you from your family? Is he gonna pay a dowry? That is all I can think of a "good family" in respect of marriage.

Also. I've seen men of high value going to low value "good girls". A lot actually. When you are looking for marriage material it is one of the places you look for. Most regret this decision as almost all women who did not passed by poverty are bad bets nowadays.

I do not understand about guarding yourself. It seem a pretty good idea for me. If you are not only low value, but a high n count woman... you are by no means marriage material for any median or above value man, unless gorgeous.

I do not understand how many of these lines are lies. Seem like a pretty good advice. They just forgot to make you feminine and to learn to use opportunities. Which are actually a pretty big deal. But it is surely a beginning.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Where did I say they were lies? What are you talking about?

[–]sparksjoy 1 points [recovered]  (18 children) | Copy Link

Lie to Women: Men who value things like chastity ( low n count) youth-beauty are just insecure basement dwelling virgins and reside only on the internet, majority of the men are secure about women's past, and are not shallow to go just for youth and low n cunt and love ur accomplishments/career/job etc etc

Where's the lie here though lol. As a Catholic 20-year-old virgin much of this has been pretty true in my experience. I have only encountered non-religious men who are anal about chastity online on manosphere-aligned subs and sites. As for the youth part men will fuck younger chicks on the side and promise to marry them only to keep going back to post-wall career wifey/SO at the end of the day to "work on his marriage" and then next thing you know they have another child on the way. Young women who expect men to leave their wives usually end up disappointed. This checks out with the "women usually initiate divorce" stats we see on here.

[–]immaculacy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The lie is that almost all men who value virginity are literally just normal average men with decency who want to get married and there's not a problem with them like insecure non-virgin women try to force us to believe.

[–]maplehobo 1 points [recovered]  (13 children) | Copy Link

I have only encountered non-religious men who are anal about chastity online on manosphere-aligned subs and sites

Here we go again ...

Regular average men aren't "anal" about chastity. They just make a distinction, you are either str material (aka fuck buddy) or ltr material (aka wife material). They may seem they have no problem with n counts .. right until the point you want to be their girlfriend. And these men are everywhere not just the manosphere

[–]sparksjoy 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

That hasn't been my experience. My own mother was high-n and still married and settled down by 21 lol. I once asked my dad how he felt about her exes and he just kind of smirked and said "I don't." I know plenty of married/LTRed women who had "wild years" in high school or college but are still doing just fine in the dating market.

[–]maplehobo 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

and still married and settled down by 21

She was young, that plays in her favor

I know plenty of married/LTRed women who had "wild years" in high school or college but are still doing just fine in the dating market

Define "wild years" and "doing just fine".

[–]sparksjoy 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

She was young, that plays in her favor

Hmm, good point.

Define "wild years" and "doing just fine".

Wild years=undergrad college, especially on spring break. Most of the hook-ups and ONS happened there.

For "just fine" in the case of older women married with kids. In the case of women around my age are in LTR's, mainly with frat guys and athletes.

[–]maplehobo 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

Wild years=undergrad college, especially on spring break. Most of the hook-ups and ONS happened there.

I meant how many people do you consider you have to sleep with to be considered "wild".

For "just fine" in the case of older women married with kids. In the case of women around my age are in LTR's, mainly with frat guys and athletes.

Wouldn't really know, Im not from the us, but if everything that's being said about the decline of marriage and the complaints about the hook up culture I see everywhere is an indicator then you're not telling the whole truth

[–]sparksjoy 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

I meant how many people do you consider you have to sleep with to be considered "wild".

For a Catholic like me anything above 0 starts getting wild. In the secular sense "wild" would probably be 10+

Wouldn't really know, Im not from the us, but if everything that's being said about the decline of marriage and the complaints about the hook up culture I see everywhere is an indicator then you're not telling the whole truth

Invalidation is illegal here, bro. I'm contributing my own experiences and observations. If you don't like them there's nothing I can say.

[–]maplehobo 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

For a Catholic like me anything above 0 starts getting wild. In the secular sense "wild" would probably be 10+

I can agree with this

Invalidation is illegal here, bro. I'm contributing my own experiences and observations. If you don't like them there's nothing I can say.

I'm not invalidating anything, sis

[–]sparksjoy 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're not telling the whole truth

??

[–]maplehobo 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Fair enough

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

High-n women settle down with high-n men and all is well. This revenge fantasy about "them evil sluts being sad and alone" is just that, a fantasy.

[–]maplehobo 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

High-n women settle down with high-n men and all is well

That's fair. High n men are not "regular".

This revenge fantasy about "them evil sluts being sad and alone"

Did I say they're evil? Did I say they always end up sad and alone?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men care to an extent, but not nearly as much as PPD makes out, esp about virgins most men don't care about that unless they're ultra religious tradcons.

Actually in my experience usually it is the woman who brings the topic up. Someone posted a source in this sub before showing that statistically women ask about sexual history more than men. Which doesn't shock me at all.

[–]secular_Ex_moose[S] -4 points-3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

As a Catholic 20-year-old virgin much of this has been pretty true in my experience

pretty face and thin figure also is a requirement

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, we all know that, lol. You think women don't know that? Why do you think women throw down massive amount of money on beauty crap?

[–]Bekiala5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I haven't heard anyone telling "lies" about men and women. It would be more accurate to say that most people have misconceptions about the opposite gender. These ideas are propagated by cultural ideas and media and perhaps some parents and teachers.

I had a lot internalized sexism and had a vague idea that men were semi-gods who would rape or beat you at a moments notice. It has taken me a long time to understand the basic humanity of men. They carry similar insecurities, suffering, struggles and dreams as I do.

The nice part about my sexism is that my dim view of myself has been continually contradicted by the reality of my abilities.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (31 children) | Copy Link

Lie to Men: Women are darling little perfect beings for whom looks do not matter and if you are a good human being, she would see through that and pick you just for it

That is what women tell men. Men listen to women and it fucks them up. Still I guess MGTOW/RP/PUA need punters from somewhere.

Lie to Women: Men who value things like chastity ( low n count) youth-beauty are just insecure basement dwelling virgins and reside only on the internet, majority of the men are secure about women's past, and are not shallow to go just for youth and low n cunt and love ur accomplishments/career/job etc etc

That is what women tell women. Men tell women the truth and women deny reality.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie26 points27 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Men tell women the truth and women deny reality.

Woman: It just happened, you know. I didn't have the strength to tell him it was over and it was a really hard time in my life. It was a growing experience and I was more prepared for college because of it. I'm really not that kind of girl, I felt very bad about it and usually follow the rules.

Dude: You cheated on your BF on spring break.

Which is why men should never explain themselves, they sound to women like women giving excuses for bad behavior. MRP calls it DEERing and they know that play because they resemble it.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

To be fair, guys do this shit too. Almost no one is going to intentionally make themselves look like the bad guy. Hell, I did this after my last relationship. I didn't cheat, but I ended things because I didn't like her that much, but I told her a story to make it sound like it was no one's fault because she was fucking crazy into me and I wanted to say something nicer than "yeah you bore the complete fuck out of me and I can't stand being around you. Every time you text me I cringe because I have to interact with you."

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I used to try to be honest, but the woman's reaction was scarey.

Its like when they say "Does this dress make me look fat".

They slowly train their men to lie. Then after multiple sessions of carrot-stick, they act surprised when a man does just that, they lie.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men should be assertive. Not talk like women. This is why they never learn. But at least you didn't upset her.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When my boyfriend cheated on me all he told me was "it just happened" too lol.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Its like Roosh said in Bang, "always engage the emotional mind"

[–]RoninCDN3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Unironically follows Roosh V.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You got it.

Also

Hypnotica

Mystery

Ross Jefferies

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If I had a dollar for every β€œI’m not that type of girl” after a one night stand lmao

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol you beat me to it. I was gonna say. It's all women doing the lying

[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

That is what women tell men.

Which women tell that to men? Is it a western thing? Because where I live mid-school girls humilate fat/ugly peers, boys included. So, already at mid-school it's obvious they do care.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

To my knowledge in Russia people are pretty big about gender roles and don't look to kindly on weakness.

In the West the former is abhorred and you're coddled for the latter. You can guess what this produces.

An article I translated, you might find that one interesting.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

pretty big about gender roles

What do you mean by that? The argument "most men work as cooks" is popular here. SAHMs are rare here. There are pretty many (maybe avout 35% of all STEM students) girls studying STEM.

But all that said, I don't see the connection to bullying and humilation as well. I thought it happens in the West too? Even people on PPD tell it does.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

There aren't that many SAHMs in the West either, they just like to larp about how they're providers and shit.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

There aren't, and probably what these guys think: "Russian women mostly are SAHMs."

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

They think Russians are living in the American 50s.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe closer to 80s but with the internet.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What do you mean by that?

Men being masculine and women being feminine women as an ideal, not something to be opposed.

I thought it happens in the West too?

It does, but we're constantly reminded how wrong it is and constantly educated to not do it, and not to solve our problems with violence etc.. And this has already been the case decades ago; these days they added a dose and celebrate anything that breaks these norms; a result of our "victims are wonderful"-culture, where you have the moral high ground by default if you have a trait that would have you ostracized or victimized elsewhere.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men being masculine and women being feminine

Except there is no universal consensus on what are the ideals of masculinity and femininity? But yeah, a man should not wear heels and a woman should not... huh? It's like women are said to look cool wearing men's shirts.

It does, but we're constantly reminded how wrong it is

It is wrong from adult perspective as well, but what is wrong is to call fat people fat and laugh at them for it, it's not wrong to find fat people unattractive. You can't control what you are attracted to.

Since this, it still is clear that being fat is uncool, even if no one in adult life reminds you on your weight.

"victims are wonderful"

Look at an example. There is an african man who is underpaid, who is starving because of that, has problems with health and his life is shitty. Yes, people empathize him, women empathize him, but they won't really find him attractive.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Regarding the article: well, I think the article polarizes the things too much. I knew stories of raped western women accusing their SO's/husbands that they did not accompany and defend them at the moment they were raped.

Arguments that women should defend themselves happen here too (with women accusing men in victim blaming): men are not supposed to accompany women constantly.

And saving a dog? These cases are rare and not unique to Russia.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Regarding the article: well, I think the article polarizes the things too much.

Admittedly. But the core is: do you think that if a bunch of Chechens... okay, scratch that, let them just be Arabs... do you think that if a bunch of Arabs would get out of control right in the center of Moscow or St Petersburg or wherever, and start molesting and even raping women, that there weren't enough native Russians around who would go tribal and make sure this never happens again?

Because that really is the difference to Germany. Here the only demographic where I would expect retaliation of that sort are Neonazis (assuming you can bring them in in sufficient numbers), but there's no way that there would be a collective action of any kind.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am aware that that is the difference to Germany.

Yes, Russians do not take many laws seriously, but as I see, Americans (okay, they are not Germans) also often use prohibited drugs and visit prostitutes.

And hardly the message women send to men "Be fat and maybe someone will love you". In fact this message is not even that false, but the maybe part spoils everything.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, somewhere along the road we really fucked up when we conceded the monopoly on dating and relationship advice to women.

[–]AndemanMan5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That is what women tell men.

I have this theory that older women are spreading this sort of lie in order to bag men. Younger women don't need to make shit up, so they don't say anything. So since older women are the only ones who say anything, their lies get interpreted as 'the voice of all women'.

Since older women are the source of the lie, the rhetoric naturally has a 'lost youth' slant disclaiming the value of youthful attributes.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I thought it was just because women are all jelous of each other.

Its like the romanticism/BP/"Just be thyself" BS, I would never say that to a friend. Anything I say, I have done myself and it worked for me, be that ONS or longer term relationship. Only thing is I have to word it carefully, so it dosn't sound too PUA/RP ish.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

most of the women who say stuff like that are YOUNG women drawing their own conclusions

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women who say it think it’s what they want. They don’t know themselves as well as men (players) know them

[–]EastussΰΌΌ ぀ β–€ΜΏ_β–€ΜΏ ༽぀1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is what women tell men. Men listen to women and it fucks them up.

Some men talk like that too, and the other men who don't are silenced and labelled deviant. Men are just programmed to view women as weaker and to be protected.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

rofl, my point exactly. women do the lying to both genders in the relationship game.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This precisely. Women are more social creatures and care about their social standing so they want to look like delicate little angels. Men are blunt but honest

Men have NEVER told women that career makes them attractive. Women have told men plenty of times that it’s about personality, getting her flowers, equality, etc

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.17 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I was never told a) men care about n count (PS if you've actually dated men they really don't, at least not enough to ask about it) or b) that your career is so attractive and will help your love life. I grew up in the 90s so promoting being independent and having a career yes I did get those messages. But it did not have anything to do with attracting men. Reality is men often pair up with women within their own demographic. Including career wise and sexual past tbh.

[–]Zippo-Cat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

(PS if you've actually dated men they really don't, at least not enough to ask about it)

Men don't ask because they care so much. Ignorance is bliss.

[–]RoninCDN0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I was never told that relatability is key to compatibiliy either.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah me neither

[–]ifelsedowhilelocal cop - cherry top8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I grew up believing that romanticism was a key element to sexually attract women but later I came to the conclusion that it might be necessary in some cases but not sufficient. it might be good for BB but not for a more visceral kind of attraction.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

95% of attraction is physical. If they aren't physically attracted to you, no amount of romance is doing to do shit

[–]reluctantly_red3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

a man 99 times out of 100 will choose the young clerk who is short/petite, young and who is a virgin over a go-getter "smart" WOMAN who has accomplished a great lot in her career

What dream world are you living in? Guys who have good careers themselves are not about to wife up clerk or other low socioeconomic status woman.

Assortative mating is the way of the world. Yale marries Stanford; MIT marries CalTech; JD marries MBA ... .

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What dream world are you living in? Guys who have good careers themselves are not about to wife up clerk or other low socioeconomic status woman.

Tell that to Matt Damon, Nicholas Cage, Jerry Seinfeld... Megan Markle's husband whoever his royal ass is... oh jeez I can lag down the Internets with this list.

Edit: And Donald Trump...

[–]Tayterthot5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I always find it weird when I hear that men are taught that looks don’t matter to women, because women are actively taught that looks matter the MOST. The dress codes, the makeup and skincare marketing, the social stigma against body hair.... of course looks matter. Can you blame us for wanting at least decent-looking men? If our looks matter so damn much, why shouldn’t yours?

Maybe that lie stems from men’s ideal fantasy world, where young conventionally attractive women fall in love with and fuck even the most toe-looking of men (regardless of financial status). Like those movies where the 9/10 chick ends up with the awkward 4/10 guy.

[–]binkerfluid2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree 100% and yeah its the BS movies and tv shove down your throats about "just be yourself" and shit about all the fat guys getting hot girls in the movies and stuff. Its silly and unrealistic.

IM short and ugly etc I dont expect to get a hot girlfriend or really anything at all because Im not interested in ugly women either. I dont expect anything different from them im not entitled to anything.

[–]SqueaksScreech2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I pretty much grew up being told to wait until marriage and that I'll have 3 little tan children with blond hair and blue eyes since I tend to attract white guys. My mother always told me that she would okay with me being a sugar baby to a rich single 60 year old man than be the mistress of a unloyal bastard that has a wife and children. Also that it would be a dick move to steal the bread out of the children's mouth. My brother told me I can date but I'm not allowed to have children yet because I'm still a baby starting my career.

[–]Bekiala0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What do you think of that advice/view now?

[–]SqueaksScreech2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I still stick to most of the advice. I don't go after men with partners or children. I'm not gonna ask for expensive gifts and money while the man's young children starve and walk with ripped shoes. Nah I ain't doing the same thing my biological father and his nieces do. I also come from a line of young mothers and I don't plan on having children any time soon. I'm more focus on my career path and having a stable living.

[–]Bekiala1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You sound like a way decent person. I hope you have a family with someone way way decent and not just rich and good looking.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Haha

My childhood was so far out of the norm

I relate to almost nothing here

[–]Bekiala2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I'm a bit like this too. I do find it interesting.

What impressions or expectations did you have for men or women and why?

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The stuff where people’s parents actually gave them advice for finding a partner and cared about their future sounds like fairy tales to me, I know it’s true but it took me years to realize some parents actually treat their children like family.

I was just told I’m a failure as a woman if I love a man because feminism or something. And I genuinely believed I was completely ugly and no one could like me even though I ended up modeling later. A lot of bitterness was taken out on me rather than support. When I hear about parents telling their children they’re the prize and to act like it, my lizard brain still thinks it’s an after school special cheesy fiction.

You?

[–]Bekiala1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ugh. That is horrific to read. Must have been worse to live through.

I was guessing that both of your parents were transexual or something wild.

My family was probably the polar opposite of yours. Very family oriented and having sexual market value would have been just laughed at. It would not have been valued at all. Gender differences weren't really discussed. Mostly I remember my parents having a certain derision for people valuing romantic relationships or having a boyfriend or girlfriend. Going to school and being independent was valued. This probably has been more positive than negative for me as I have never married.

What were your grandparents like? Also, if you don't mind answering, have you been able to heal at all? If so how?

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I PMed you.

[–]oneprettycoolcat6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Why would it matter if women are lied to about what men like? Men will SHOW women what they like by trying to fuck them. Most men never get to see what women like (At least before things like Tinder) because their entire sexual strategy is based on keeping most men in the dark about the fact that women find most men repulsive.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Being fuckable means nothing for women when it comes to relationships. I would even say a major problem in the dating market is women are taught how to be sexy (which is like the female version of BB), but not how to be relationship material.

[–]oneprettycoolcat-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Women have nearly unlimited relationship options. The problem (for women) is that the few men that they actually want are the men with no need to commit to get sex as almost all women want the same tiny percentage of men.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Are you a woman? I actually agree with the person above you, the fact that we are taught that we are the prize and have unlimited options and never to develop what we offer in a relationship and be self sufficient is our biggest downfall.

Men are taught to be betas and to give in to women's wants and demands, women are taught never to temper their wants and demands for men. Put these two in a relationship and the man will get walked all over, resent his gf once the honeymoon phase wears off but lacks the confidence to really break it off until one day after both people are totally worn down does. And it's always a shock to her since she was never listening nor open and he never was persistent enough about what he wanted her to do differently and willing to walk away if it didn't happen..

[–]oneprettycoolcat-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

the fact that we are taught that we are the prize and have unlimited options and never to develop what we offer in a relationship and be self sufficient is our biggest downfall.

Not really, because there is no justice or karma in the world and women generally get what they want so it's not really a downfall. The whole "wall" shit is just revenge fantasy on the part of men.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

From my personal experience not developing my RMV would have been the biggest mistake in my life. It drove away one man, it would have drove away the man I'm marrying too had I not found red pill women and had some sense slapped into me that I don't shit gold because I have a vagina and men want to feel respected and will put up with a bitch for a bit but not forever. You will see it commonly echod here. Women need to be pleasant and improve a man's life to be worthwhile. And it's true. Our options are not infinite. Our SMV has a lot to do with how we attract men, and our RMV has a lot to do with how we keep men. And if we under develop these , we end up with men who are less desirable because either they are fine with putting up with a low smv or rmv or both which make them inherently less valuable than a man who respects himself and what he believes he deserves in the dating market

[–]throwawayhouseissue1I talk to strangers3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

keeping most men in the dark about the fact that women find most men repulsive.

Ouch man, who hurt you?

[–]The-Devilz-Advocate1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think he's referring to the 80/20 rule. Women only consider the top 20% of males as average and above, other 80% are just invisible for the.

[–][deleted] 1 points  (60 children) | Copy Link

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[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Whenever you say this I have to counter point that I work with high earning men and none of their wives are high earning.

I don't think your take is generally true at all. My neighbors are a plastic surgeon, and anesthesiologist, and a gynecologist female.

Both male doctors married non career women.

The female doc married a guy below her status and runs the family.

[–]damaskrose 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Income is different from social class though. Most guys marry within their class.

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd agree with that to a large extent.

But again I mostly hung out with my "class" level too.

[–][deleted] 1 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think it just is who you are with when you are single. I think all the people living by me in this case met in college, if you meet after college than the most likely place is med school (lots of nurses marry doctors too).

I think it just who you are hanging out with, and not because the men actually care that much.

This btw is an interesting chart I just found

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-who-marries-whom/

According to this Physicians and surgeons marry the like, as well as teachers and nurses.

Looking around a lot of technical male jobs tend to marry teachers and nurses.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Interesting, so most women do the same jobs.

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well teachers and nurses seem good at marrying up.

[–]shadowkatBecky by day, Stacey by night0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah New England here, age of marriage is high and incomes are too. Other friends I'm thinking of are in DC, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, LA, RTP, Twin Cities, Chicago. That's probably what it is.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

IDK if there is such a thing as class in LA, why do you think every bum tries to come here outside the weather.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

Most the high earning women I know are single.

Lawyers and the like. Had one hit on me once, I was totally creeped out. Like seriously do I look like some soyboi who like masculine women (rhetorical question). Had me questioning myself and my life for quite a while.

[–][deleted] 1 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]NockerJoeKing Hater0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

The reality is there is no reality. A lot of problems and situations are local. That guy and yiu are both right. Its just you aren't exactly neighbors.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Well its like they say in NLP "The map is not the territory".

I know for a fact Im a bit of an oddball anyway. But women of the same social background as me call me posh. Then the women that should technically be out of my league I get on fine with. And I get on fine with Strippers as well (I do not buy dances either, I am not a mark), known a few of them outside of their work.

Plus my cousin married way above his league, he is like beer guzzling lads lad tradesmen and from one of the roughest council estates in the city he lives in. His wife however is UMC from one of the wealthiest area's of that city.

Im not gonna deny TheSuperStink and what they say. But on the other hand Im not gonna take it as the writing on the wall, as I have a lifetime experience of experiencing the exact opposite.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

That's the other rule. You don't decide the rules. Your league is where the world says your league is and the world around you is what it is. Your league can be way higher than you think it should be or way lower. I can get attention from hourglass figure blonde bombshells or ghosted by obese weirdos depending on the day and where I am.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I need to start internalising that. Time to start implanting some new beliefs as my old ones are probably holding me back.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You know I remember the first time I realized my fat ass was being taken as the Alpha Chad in the room by like everyone around me. It was fucking horrifying. It wasn't something I'd earned so much as as a thing people just looked at me and assigned.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah it happens. It happens everytime I am in a relationship, I have to lead (women dont seem to mind letting me lead, despite the claims some women make). If I am out socialising with friends, I am always the goto guy for plans and when to move onto a new venue. Even work do's, I have had managers come up and ask me where everyone should be going next and if its time to move on yet.

I remember one night, me and 2 mates made friends with these 6 women. They wanted to goto some venue and we went there. The place was shut and everyone just turned to me and asked "Where to".

Becoming the "Leader of Men", is something I have never actually wanted. It just happens.

Even at work when all the managers were off, Im also the one that ends up co-ordinating stuff.

I envy the Sheep, seriously I do, I have never been able to just follow (except for when I used to hang with an Uber-Chad mate at like 19). It would be nice to just stop thinking and leave all decisions to someone else, but that has never happened and probably never will.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I envy the Sheep, seriously I do, I have never been able to just follow (except for when I used to hang with an Uber-Chad mate at like 19). It would be nice to just stop thinking and leave all decisions to someone else, but that has never happened and probably never will.

Dude are you literally me right now? I fucking jump at the chance to let someone else take the reigns but it happens so rarely I'm just kinda over the whole idea of it. I fucking wish I could just turn my brain off.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

My only question is why mention it then.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well good for you, as long as you are happy.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Lawyers and the like.

I found the problem.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I used to work for a big world wide corperation. So as well as going on lunches (on the company credit card) with the head of finance I got to reguarly mingle with some high power players.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean work in those fields is very draining and both women and men working there tend to be single.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah thats why I left. No work-life balance. Fuck that noise.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Duh how else do the rich stay rich

[–]secular_Ex_moose[S] -1 points0 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

no, they do not

a 7/10 woman who is smart, aged 30 and accomplished a lot in career will lose out to a young girl atleast on the SMV market

[–]shadowkatBecky by day, Stacey by night11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Literally every woman I know getting married this year is in the 6-7 range, around 30, and has a pretty stable career (what is accomplishing a lot exactly?) Every guy I know who's getting married is getting married to a woman like this too. This is literally so normal in the "career person" demographic that I can't think of a single "career person" I know that's deviated from it recently.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean my demographic is high earning men, and my experience is similar. Maybe they are not marrying women of the same status/age they are, but they are certainly not marrying waitresses and grocery store clerks. They marry similar to themselves in education, career and social class. Again, it may not be exactly on the same level, but it's still pretty close.

[–]shadowkatBecky by day, Stacey by night4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm pretty sure demographically the majority of millennials who are getting married are above-average affluence-wise. Having lived adjacent to highly affluent communities for a lot of my life, I think that entire section of society functions differently than other parts of the dating ecosystem. High achievers tend to not just target but also are exclusively exposed to other high achievers.

At least in the business world it seems like MBAs meet other MBAs at business school or equally smart friends of their business school friends and they have their dream power couple marriages. They just sort of see them as normal marriages though because that's what everyone else around them is doing too.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well yes a lot of it just has to do with people dating the people they happen to be around and exposed to the most, which tends to be people similar in demographics like this. Pretty common sense tbh.

[–][deleted] 1 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This is mostly true for couples where people got acquainted during youth. In second and next marriages age difference is much greater than in first marriages.

[–][deleted] 1 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

5 years is a lot, I'd say.

[–][deleted] 1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

People don't claim it's the norm, but it is the case.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It happens on occasion, my grandpa's first marriage they were the same age, his second marriage he was 25 years older.

I think when it DOES happen we take notice and that skews our view on how common it is, but I just can't see it being that common.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

thats not what the new york times wedding announcements show tho

[–]shadowkatBecky by day, Stacey by night0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Curious what they do show now?

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

mostly similar aged similar credentialed ppl in their late 20s to late 30s getting married to each other

[–]shadowkatBecky by day, Stacey by night1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think we're saying the same thing with different words lol. I'm saying like attracts like, basically. I know people like me haha so that's who I know getting married.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

oh i think i replied to the wrong person initially lol sorry

[–]shadowkatBecky by day, Stacey by night0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol all good!

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What a sample lol

[–]damaskrose 1 points [recovered]  (11 children) | Copy Link

Women don't care about the SMV market, they care about the marriage market.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Age is more of a factor in relationship market, TBH.

[–]secular_Ex_moose[S] -3 points-2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

if the young woman makes him wait, she will enter the marriage market

[–]damaskrose 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

I'm 30+ and the first round of divorces has just hit. Men immediately go back to orbiting the same (often married) women they liked in college. Oh and trying to poach their friends' wives like they're Bezos.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Does like no-one move where you are from.

Since school, college and university, Ive been in the army, left the army and lived in a city for 2 years and then moved to another city.

People I went to school, college and uni with are like fragments of the past that my mind hardly remembers.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The vast majority of my friends from high school never moved town, or if they did, they still live within 100 miles of home.

I moved across the state for undergrad, across the country for grad, and plan on moving across the country AGAIN to a totally different area once I finish my Master's.

A lot of people are afraid of picking up and moving some place they don't know anybody, but once you do it and it works out, you're pretty cool with having to do it again.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

but once you do it and it works out, you're pretty cool with having to do it again.

So true.

[–]damaskrose 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah most people move, but some guys travel a lot for work, and with the internet they can orbit from afar.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

with the internet they can orbit from afar.

Now that really is kinda creepy.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Unless those the same women got fat, etc.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Preferences for sex =/= Preferences for relationships, especially long-term marriage prospect relationships.

If I'm looking for a good fuck, of course I'm gonna go for the hot girl at the bar who can't hold a conversation to save her life. But if I'm looking for a marriage prospect, I'll tone down the need for physical attractiveness TO A DEGREE and also consider factors such as their personal history, their career, whether or not they want children, etc.

You seem to think that most men only think with their dick when it comes to long term relationship, and some do. They end up getting their hearts broken by awful women, finding the red pill, and continuing to select for hot, awful, shallow women.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

She will lose to a younger girl who looks better than her. This is important.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If men still have to approach both of these women and they're convinced the younger women is higher value and harder to attain/more competition, they'll still go for the woman their age.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, higher value men will go for higher value women. On average.

[–]bobby_bobkinson1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The view of what men want is nonsense...? Of every relationship I've been in, only one of them has been because I find a woman particularly attractive.

The relationship I'm in now is based on emotional and intellectual fulfillment; I'm not entirely secure about both of our pasts, but I understand that life happens.

Later in life I'd ideally like to be a dad first and all else second, so I would most likely need a working partner - though money isn't particularly important to me so long as no one is starving.

I understand that I'm not necessarily the norm, but I also understand that 'the norm' is far from what you're describing.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lie to Women: Men who value things like chastity ( low n count) youth-beauty are just insecure basement dwelling virgins and reside only on the internet, majority of the men are secure about women's past, and are not shallow to go just for youth and low n cunt and love ur accomplishments/career/job etc etc

Reality: While job, career is something u need to do for ur survival, please note that it is not something that attracts a man, a man 99 times out of 100 will choose the young clerk who is short/petite, young and who is a virgin over a go-getter "smart" WOMAN who has accomplished a great lot in her career

I'll C your V. Not everyone was raised by feminist Twitter memes in Portland. I actually had a "redder" worldview initially pushed on me--all about being ladylike and "from a good family/neighborhood" and finding a male counterpart. I actually had a kind of reverse redpilling when I found out that the guys I liked were uncomfortable and freaked out by inexperienced/virginal women. Now that I'm out of college it's even more so, especially living outside the US. Most men prefer a woman who's been around enough to be chill.

Also, I really don't know the universe where all these guys are marrying or even dating way down in SES. My social circles skew pretty UMC/UC, and ain't nobody dating store clerks without degrees, no matter how pretty and virginal they are. Generally in dating, like goes with like.

[–]Five_DecadesKnows what women want. Knows he doesn't have it3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Reality: While job, career is something u need to do for ur survival, please note that it is not something that attracts a man, a man 99 times out of 100 will choose the young clerk who is short/petite, young and who is a virgin over a go-getter "smart" WOMAN who has accomplished a great lot in her career

This isn't really true. There are short term and long term mating strategies.

For short term mating (for men: a large number of kids with a low degree of parental investment), yes a woman's career isn't important. Neither is her mental health, or her financial stability. For these situation you just want to pump and dump, have sex once or a few times and never see her again.

Long term mating (a small number of kids with a high degree of parental investment) requires men to pick women who are financially and emotionally stable. A woman who will abandon you, abuse the kids, spend all the money, make your life a living hell, etc isn't good wife or mother material.

So a woman's career and education doesn't matter for short term mating, it does matter for long term mating.

Not as much as a man's education and career matters to a woman, but it does matter.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Long term mating (a small number of kids with a high degree of parental investment) requires men to pick women who are financially and emotionally stable. A woman who will abandon you, abuse the kids, spend all the money, make your life a living hell, etc isn't good wife or mother material.

So a woman's career and education doesn't matter for short term mating, it does matter for long term mating.

I agree, but I still think the money thing is less important. But being smart / stable enough to have had a job / gotten an education is important because it speaks to genetic quality.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reality: While job, career is something u need to do for ur survival, please note that it is not something that attracts a man, a man 99 times out of 100 will choose the young clerk who is short/petite, young and who is a virgin

Maybe, but then the problem is that men are not choosing to marry virgins. No guy is going to sit around and wait to marry you before having sex with you unless he is very religious. Men want to sample the milk before buying the cow, no one is going to invest in a cow sight unseen! So then you are left in a situation where remaining a virgin is completely impractical except in some religious minority groups.

Also, jobs were NEVER sold to women as something that makes them attractive to men. They are sold as something that you should definitely have because you can't rely on a guy to pay for your living expenses for the rest of your life just because he was the first person you opened your legs for, see point 1.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Lie to Women: Men who value things like chastity ( low n count) youth-beauty are just insecure basement dwelling virgins and reside only on the internet, majority of the men are secure about women's past, and are not shallow to go just for youth and low n cunt and love ur accomplishments/career/job etc etc

yeah no this is literally not a thing lol

most of my messaging from family and media was pretty much true: you're the prize. act like it. expect to be treated like it. actually look and carry yourself like something to be prized

i don't know why you brought up virginity. i grew up around secular white people not first generation muslims or whatever

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

: you're the prize. act like it. expect to be treated like it. actually look and carry yourself like something to be prized

Your family straight up objectified you?

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, absolutely

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Guess thats what works tbh, my sister is one of the weirdest people I have ever met and she defo was not taught like that. Shes also complete TRP bait as shes over 30 single and filthy rich on her own accord.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

actually look and carry yourself like something to be prized

That is probably the key part there that actually makes someone the prize.

A person can think it and believe it all they want. But until they present themselves as the prize, it will just come off as arrogance and entitlement.

[–]binkerfluid0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel like next to no one cares about virginity in the real world. its totally an internet thing now for some reason.

[–]bonusfruit2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The lie to women is a niche, obscure internet forum lie, nothing like the widespread cultural lie to men. Another attempt to equalize gendered experience. Why do this

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[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I was told that boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider and so far I have seen no evidence to the contrary.

[–]PennnyLameMY VAGINA IS A SOVEREIGN NATION!! ✊🏼3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wanna know where all my promised candy bars are tbh...

[–]geygesπŸ‡3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

a man 99 times out of 100 will choose the young clerk who is short/petite, young and who is a virgin

oddly specific. Whoever the young chick that works in this guy's office, better watch your back.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He also mentioned young twice.

[–]secular_Ex_moose[S] -2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I am in college mate,

also when u think of a highly desirable man, u'd think tall, tan, 6 pack broad-shouldered and handsome

nothing oddly specific right

same here

[–]geygesπŸ‡6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

why she gotta be short and a clerk though?

[–]meomeowmeoww 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Hes a manlet.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

my sides are in orbit

[–]binkerfluid0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

hahaha its funny because short people are lesser people.

fuck off and yeah im somewhat short

[–]Five_DecadesKnows what women want. Knows he doesn't have it1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

u'd think tall, tan, 6 pack broad-shouldered and handsome

And women do want these things. But again attraction is multifaceted. You have short term vs long term mating agendas that are competing at different intensities.

A man who is too desirable starts to become undesirable because he is likely to cheat, or because his SMV is higher than the woman he is with. For long term mating women want a man who is emotionally and financially stable who will provide financial and emotional support to her and their children.

A male model who is out fucking college girls while his wife is at home with the kids doesn't provide that.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

over a go-getter "smart" WOMAN who has accomplished a great lot in her career

If said woman is also conventionally attractive, SNORT

[–]ggkkggk0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

over the smart women? so the young girl can't be smart n not petite?? why bring whether a body is small or not into it or level of success you lost me with those points

Personally if she works the best she can , she's doing what she has to do w.e that is ,that's good enough for me and I don't discriminate as long as I find you attractive I'll date you

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

why bring whether a body is small or not into it or level of success you lost me with those points

OP is a manlet

[–]ggkkggk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

really now well ok i guess

[–]secular_Ex_moose[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

5ft9 is a manlet now?

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends on the country.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I grew up believing that everyone is an individual first and you should plan a strategy based on the person not which gender they are. Which meant an emphasis on getting to know people rather than prejudgments based on stereotypes.

People who rely on stereotypes to inform their day-to-day interactions with individuals are stupid.

[–]inkoDe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is something I see over and over here. I am not sure where you went wrong, but people vary in their interests and what would make a good partner for them might not make a good partner for the next guy. I am not going to tackle your particular assumptions, but all assumptions. People dont fit into clean little molds and neither do their attractions. I mean, yes people like pretty people but there is a lot more to it than that.

[–]u4430 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The common theme between the two lies is that they don’t want both men and women to engage in casual sex.

However, all the woman has to do to have casual sex is to learn how to keep her sex life secret from the opposite sex as much as possible, which is what a lot of women have mastered as a skill. Watch how women talk about their sex lives when other men are around, and watch how they talk behind closed doors.

For a man to engage in casual sex, he has to reprogram his brain, as his approach is sexually unattractive to women. It takes years before that programming is erased, if ever.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It seems like the people doing the lying to both genders is women

[–]87AudreyHorne0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was never told any of these things. I don't think anyone ever gave me a lecture on how to attract men aside from some tacky women I could instantly see were full of shit.

I always just knew that if you look good, everyone will be attracted to you, and if you have the right character attraction can turn to undying love. It's not very complicated.

No one is attracted to anyone's jobs. Women aren't attracted to them either. If someone dates you for your job that isn't attraction.

[–]FatalCartilage0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reality: anyone who values virginity is either sexually inexperienced or is a hypocrite.

[–]mgfowlerRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your view for what men really want is bullshit

[–]GirlsHateMtgplayers0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And you call yourself redpill...

[–]Crook560 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Young virgin girls are a fucking boooooore! You’ll just end up having an affair with your co-worker (shockingly a career women).

[–]immaculacy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No one who married a virgin they actually had feelings for him/her has said this. It's the guys who sleep around with a bunch of girls and just want to smack her during sex and get it over with that get bored when a virgin wants to cuddle and text him. It's literally the promiscuous person's fault.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

"Sugar, spice, and everything nice" - A big fat lie

[–]Five_DecadesKnows what women want. Knows he doesn't have it-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Meet a woman with borderline personality disorder.

[–]binkerfluid0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

been there, done that, wanted to kill myself

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