TheRedArchive

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113

Seems to detail the unequal distribution of sex amongst men and the fact that women are having sex and relationships with a smaller fraction of men while creep-shaming the betas.

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/05/04/no-sex-please-were-millennials

TO UNDERLINE HIS theory that sexuality is a construct of human discourse, the philosopher Michel Foucault noted that people talk about sex a lot. “We convince ourselves that we have never said enough on the subject,” he wrote in his (four-volume) “The History of Sexuality”. “It is possible that where sex is concerned, the most long-winded, the most impatient of societies is our own.” After a three-hour discussion of sex and dating with 30 students at Northwestern University, on the rainy shore of Lake Michigan, your columnist felt he knew why. Few fields of human behaviour—and none more important—are so hard to explain.

Lexington’s visit was spurred by the latest evidence that young people in America—as in Japan and some other rich countries—are having much less sex. The portion of Americans aged 18 to 29 who claim to have had no sex for 12 months has more than doubled in a decade—to 23% last year. That is, counter-intuitively, despite the removal of many impediments to sex. Young Americans are less religious and more relaxed about sexual orientation than they have ever been. They are also readier to experiment, in part owing to the deluge of free porn they receive on smartphones. “You have access to the entire body of porn in your rucksacks!” marvelled Alexandra Solomon, a clinical psychologist who runs Northwestern’s renowned “Marriage 101” course, in a subsequent lecture.

Her comment elicited hardly any amusement. Indeed, the most striking thing about the students to Lexington—in effect, a visitor from the 1990s—was how frank and unembarrassable they seemed. They were, despite their shared interest in studying sex at an elite university, a diverse crowd: straight and gay, black and white, outgoing and reserved. About half were from religious families; a couple from migrant ones. Yet all seemed willing to discuss their sexual likes, dislikes and anxieties, including use of porn, body shyness, and the possible role of both in fuelling a millennial obsession with pubic grooming. To the extent that they represented their generation, diffidence about sex is not the problem.

The biggest reasons for the “sex recession” are probably straightforward. Married couples have more sex than singletons and Americans are marrying later. Economic duress is another dampener: it is no coincidence that the slowdown in young Americans’ sex lives began during the great recession. Partly as a result of it, many of them still live with their parents. And the low esteem that poor prospects engender, as the experience of many Japanese tragically attests, can also cause mass celibacy.

The recent vigour of America’s economy might make this seem less relevant—especially among high-achievers like the Northwestern students. Yet it was striking how many mentioned the 2008 recession, including their memories of the distress it caused their parents, as a reason to prioritise their careers, even to the extent of forgoing romance entirely. “We’re not looking to get married any more, so what are we doing?” asked one woman.

But that still does not seem to explain the persistence of America’s sex recession, or its most extreme feature: how concentrated it is among men. Since 2008 there has been almost a threefold rise in the share of men under the age of 30 who claim to be having no sex. At the same time, the portion of sexless women increased by only 8%. A range of possible explanations for the disparity has been suggested, and the students seemed to corroborate several of them. Many felt men’s social skills had been especially eroded by over-reliance on technology. Overindulgence in porn meanwhile offered them an escape route from reality. Yet the most compelling answer, because it contains elements of all that and more, may be signalled by young people’s increasing reluctance to date.

This is often blamed on the “hook-up culture” of college campuses. Yet casual sex and dating coexisted in the 1990s. It is also easy to exaggerate—now as then—how many people are hooking up. Half the Northwestern students said they rarely or never did. Yet they also rattled off reasons not to date which, among the men, who would traditionally take the lead in such encounters, included uncertainty about how they were even managed. Many considered the prospect of chatting someone up in a bar not merely daunting but possibly offensive. “Revealing that your intention in talking to someone is sexual? That’s hairy,” shuddered one man.

The problem seems to be a profound anxiety about what the other party to a potential coupling might want and expect. The heavy stress that all the students laid on the importance of mutually agreeing the basis of any relationship, at every stage of its development, is probably both a cause and effect of this. Dating apps, which around half the students had used, can mitigate it at best. It is likely a response to increased female empowerment, the major change in sexual politics, and therefore further exacerbated by men’s dread of a #MeToo-style harassment charge. In short, young American men with rather poor interpersonal skills currently face a historically confusing mating-game, even as they worry a lot about their careers. No wonder many are opting to stick to their video games.

This is painful. But it does at least suggest that sexual relations are not so much hitting the skids in America as in flux. The forces that govern sexual behaviour are dynamic. Who could have predicted a little over a decade ago, when George W. Bush was splurging on abstinence schemes, that America would soon see a spike in celibacy fuelled by economics, technology, female empowerment and perhaps even casual sex? And that cocktail of circumstances will not last. The economy is strong. The currents in popular culture will shift. And once young Americans become more used to their more equal gender relations, they might re-embrace the degree of ambiguity and risk that romance entails. That is the hope, at least. Meanwhile, they might try putting down their phones, talking face to face a bit more, and even flirting.


[–]darkmoon09104 points105 points  (270 children) | Copy Link

You know, I remember not too long ago when these issues were rarely talked about, mainly because the notion of it seemed absurd to most people, the only ones willing to discuss it were those already engaged in the manosphere which at the time was still largely obscure and unknown.

Fast forward to today and we now see the mainstream beginning to acknowledge that something just isn't right, in particular with young men. It's almost as if...TRP and the manosphere have been onto something tangible in their observations this entire time, but only now are their arguments being seriously considered.

For me it's a bittersweet feeling. On one hand it's refreshing to see the mainstream finally get its head out of its ass and realize that something is off with current social/dating dynamics, on the other hand it's rather disheartening to know that we were right this entire time...we weren't delusional or crazy after all..what we were seeing and experiencing was/is indeed very real and measurable. It paints a gloomy picture that can no longer be dismissed as irrational or far fetched.

So yeah, it's good for the mainstream to finally acknowledge what TRP and the manosphere has been saying all along. It's just too bad that it took for multiple mass shootings by incels and for Trump to get elected for them to finally admit it.

[–]Plopolok26 points27 points  (111 children) | Copy Link

So yeah, it's good for the mainstream to finally acknowledge what TRP and the manosphere has been saying all along.

Well, apparently mainstream doesn't go too far in that direction, the article says first that some men don't fuck because they're nerds and have access to porn. But it does also suggest that there might also be something more to the situation.

[–]concacanca34 points35 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Well yes they will blame men until they can't anymore. Right now it's men don't have social skills (by which they really mean escalation skills from what I've seen) but if that gets undone they will quickly move to point out that men just aren't very good prospects as partners.

I think it's a shame that so few publications/channels will even cast a vestigial light on women's role in all this, because right now it does look a lot like AF/BB is amplifying.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well yes they will blame men until they can't anymore

Then they'll blame individual men, while banning any mention that it's happening to most of them.

[–]says_harsh_thingsRed Pill - Chad9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I wonder if there will be a Marie Antoinette moment where a woman says "let them get blowjobs instead if they're not getting any sex" and sets everybody off.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The thing is Antoinette never said that. There isn't going to be some singular big blog post that sets everyone off. It's not gonna be some wine mom show like The View saying men are losers that gets people over the edge. Eventually the situation is going to just get bad and some half measure solutions that don't work won't help. Then one day some shit's gonna go down somewhere and we'll make up an eat cake line afterwards.

[–]MercyYouMercyMe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I could see maybe a ramp up of "men watch too much porn and are losers" articles blah blah so average men quit cold turkey and then when shit gets worse the The Marie Antoinette Post writes "why don't they just watch porn and masturbate?" Hahaha

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

To be really fair a lot of escalation skills come down to a lack of reciprocity. My buddy just showed me some texts he got from a new lady like an hour ago and they're more involved than basically anything I've even heard about him, me, or anyone else getting. He went from introductions to nude tits in about six messages of conversation, and he's legit autistic.

A lot of women are just as awkward and bad at escalation but they don't really have the pressure to get better. So they kind of just deflect their lack of signals and hope the dude can just power through their faults, without acknowledging they have faults.

Remember for every dude jerking it and playing playstation there's a woman who spends the same amount of time on Instagram.

[–]concacanca1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Online is a bit of a different beast because you don't have body language. Escalation has to be a bit more of a hammer of aggression.

I sorta agree though. I think a lot of women haven't learned how to encourage that escalation once they have attention and are just blaming the dudes for not escalating properly.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Online and physically I'm gonna say it's both. It's fucking shocking to me sometimes.

[–]the_calibre_cat7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well yes they will blame men until they can't anymore.

This is an endless resource. The only way they "can't" blame men, is if men cease to exist.

[–]alilabelle 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well it's endless because its true.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad you're a reasonable person!

[–]darkmoon098 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's a shame that so few publications/channels will even cast a vestigial light on women's role in all this

Nor should we expect them to, not in this feminized and gynocentric society.

[–]DarkLady7891 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

what womens roles? women are free to choose their mate and that bothers manurepsherians because they are damaged. women are not to blame.

[–]guffynemo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well yes they will blame men until they can't anymore.

They are going to blame men even when they can't as blaming women is sexist and more so we know women aren't held responsible.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What I see a lot of is that the reality of the situation has essentially become too much to bear silently, but a lot of the media and groups benefiting are still trying to rationalize away what's actually happening and tie it into their pet issues.

After all when that 23% number came out it was fucking huge and made waves. Like fifteen years ago it was a quarter what it is and the rate has been increasing, not decreasing. It's not coming down with the economy or demographic shift or any other things people think will do it. The best selling and ubiquitous video games of all time all came out before the numbers started climbing or are made for demographics besides 20something men.

The fact that the joke about everyone having porn was met with fucking stone silence probably means a lot more than the writer thinks it does.

[–]SavingsTraffic11115 points16 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That's already better than their old shtick of "everything is completely fine, there's just a tiny minority of crazy neckbeards complaining".

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me22 points23 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

For women, it is fine. They're not getting harassed for sex they don't want, and if men are unhappy, good. Because feminism teaches them that men are evil and need to be constantly punished and if they're upset to the point of hanging themselves or worse, orgasm intensifies as she considers this possibility

[–]the_calibre_cat11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

^ this, but unironically.

Women get the pick of the litter, if they squeeze out babies from those dudes it's no biggie - their new mouths to feed become costs socialized to the rest of us, even we dudes who may not be the most sexually successful but likewise didn't have anything to do with the epidemic of shitty men raised by single moms who will never be held responsible for their choices in life (like their baby daddies are), etc.

[–]Jasontheperson1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You should learn about feminism from feminists and not the manosphere.

[–]DarkLady7891 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

women are not society's scapegoat. men are not entitled to sex. if women having boundaries bothers most men who would otherwise cross them, good.

[–]darkmoon0917 points18 points  (76 children) | Copy Link

But it does also suggest that there might also be something more to the situation.

Right, and we already have an idea of what that is - women and their mating choices. Can't bring that up though since it goes against the narrative that feminists and SJWs are pushing "It's all men's fault! Women are wonderful!"

[–]MGTOWKapow2 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

"Women love sex! Every girl I know is buried under a MOUNTAIN of cocks! These men must just be fat lloser incel neckbeards or something."

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Tone down the circle-jerk please.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the cause of increase in male celibacy. Women are too aggressive to men.

[–]cattermelon34ADHD medication is a feminist conspiracy15 points16 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Since nobody is entitled to sex I'd say yes, it is men's fault.

It's sexual capitalism. You don't have the goods. You don't get the sex

[–]darkmoon099 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Women sure seem to feel entitled to sex though - cough "Fat acceptance" cough

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This is, genuinely, the one and only true answer.

The corollary to this is: if the price of sex is too high, watch people cease to buy it.

Interestingly enough, the matching female whine is that there are no good men to fuck.

[–]cattermelon34ADHD medication is a feminist conspiracy2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Like where you started, didn't love where you went

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Where did I lose you?

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That IS the reflection. "Where have all the good men gone." Very well said.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this is what people really don't get. Playing the game is great if you're an under 30 women. If you suddenly turn into a single mother with kids by a dude who won't commit, you're left holding the bag and suddenly it's your problem.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The issue, like economic capitalism, is that who has the goods is largely not under your control and belongs to a small number of tall white dudes.

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

tall white dudes

Us tall brown dudes do OK. As do tall black guys.

[–]BirdManBrrrr1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's sexual capitalism. You don't have the goods. You don't get the sex

You're right; the average modern 20something guy isn't at all impressive. Overweight, unkempt, boring, no backbone, etc.

In a different era a good enough guy could probably do ok...nowadays, nope.

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's sexual capitalism.

Yes it is. And we all know that oligarchies suck for those who aren't oligarchs.

[–]OfSpock6 points7 points  (51 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, I don't find fat guys attractive and I doubt that would change if I was fat. Men can lower their standards all they want, why should women?

[–]darkmoon0927 points28 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Who said anything about fat guys in particular? It's been shown by now that women seem to find the majority of men (totally normal, average guys) to be below average.

Women are only attracted (as in real sexual attraction) to a minority of men.

[–]DarkLady7890 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

thats how womens sexuality functions.i see no reason for other men who arent deemed attractive to simply retreat. sex is not a right.

[–]darkmoon090 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So on one hand you recognize that women's sexuality is pretty selective and discriminatory, yet someone you see non reason why guys should retreat? The reason guys are retreating is exactly because of female hypergamy.

[–]DarkLady7890 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

um, women have the right to choose whom to have sex with. sorry not sorry. it is not discrimination, it is exercising bodily autonomy.

[–]darkmoon091 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

um, women have the right to choose whom to have sex with

Is anyone arguing the contrary? No one is forcing women to sleep or not sleep with anybody.

[–]OfSpock-2 points-1 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

I did. Average these days is fat.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Average is fat for women too tho.

[–]OfSpock3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I repeat: Men can lower their standards all they want, why should women?

[–]darkmoon0912 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Maybe because men are fed up with always having to be the ones to lower their standards just to attract the attention of fat women who feel like they deserve Chad.

If you seriously can't see how this lopsided SMP is bound to piss off and embitter men then you're either hopelessly naive or disingenuous.

[–]OfSpock9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then don't lower your standards. I didn't say they have to, I said they appear to be doing so.

[–]alilabelle 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

But women aren't upset. Men are. Men being fed up is not a good reason for women to lower standards. We don't care how men we dont want feel.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I never said anyone should do anything.

You said the average man is fat, I'm simply pointing out average women are fat too.

So to answer your question, if men should lower their standards cuz they're fat, women should do the same for the same reason.

[–]OfSpock0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Men are more desperate. Women can be cat ladies rather than settle. Or single mothers.

[–]TheLongerCon10 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Men aren't getting any fatter than women. Male BMI certainly doesn't correlated with this "incel" statistic.

[–]OfSpock4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I repeat: Men can lower their standards all they want, why should women?

[–]TheLongerCon7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't see what your point is? If anything women are raising their standards, due to online dating giving them more choice and discretion.

[–]OfSpock1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

And as both men as women get fatter, more men are sinking below the level at which any woman finds them attractive.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The percentage of fat people hasn't risen at the same rate as sexless men. It's not that guys are getting fatter.

[–]says_harsh_thingsRed Pill - Chad6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is one of the few times I agree with you. That said, this is what trp has been saying for awhile to which women have traditionally responded that 'men's looks dont matter that much".

More directly, advice to struggling men has NEVER been "lift until you can't, run until you have abs", when that's exactly the advice they needed.

[–]OfSpock2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women mean 'date someone at your level' but apparently people have never been this fat en mass before.

[–]concacanca0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

In complete fairness - do you think that if a man lifts and runs his way to a perfect body and then is faced with being able to have sex with the average woman today - he's going to be all that happy? We'll just see sexlessness amongst women rise if men did diverge into hardbodies and slobs dont you think?

[–]says_harsh_thingsRed Pill - Chad0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would say yes, but I can see where your hesitation to believe so comes from.

Is a dude at the top of his game going to be happy with the pickiness and demanding nature of an average, not so thin, not so hot woman? No, I can see how the ability for women to date far out of their league isn't ideal on an individual basis. But at the same time, because of the 80/20 split, he has many 'average' women to choose from, and thus can date on his terms. Abundance mentality.

Will women be increasingly sexless as the divide gets larger? At first, yes, as the women that only grudgingly put out to keep a relationship going are filtered out. Eventually it will bottom out on women that have a healthy sex drive of their own.

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men can lower their standards all they want, why should women?

If a woman is OK with competing for top tier guys then there's no need to lower he standards. However, she has to understand that she may not succeed. Having high standards means owning the possibility of failure.

[–]OfSpock0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The article is about men not getting sex, not women not getting relationships.

[–]mcmur4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well that's kind of the thing women are the only ones with standards, men generally have none.

[–]amendment641 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure the standards argument holds up. Men have basically no standards as is, a substantial portion of them will already hook up with anything with a hole. That article even mentions the difference in sex decrease is 8% for women a d 300%(3-fold increase) for men. It's simply that women hook up with a smaller number of men, because they see a smaller number of men attractive, whether they're fat or not. Women are naturally more attractive to men than men generally are to women

[–]reluctantly_red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's simply that women hook up with a smaller number of men

This simple fact has a lot of repercussions.

[–]OfSpock1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This would be my point. An equal number of men and women get fat and would be 3-4/10. The women aren't interested in the men because they have standards, the men are willing to settle for sex.

[–]guffynemo0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

If women want to date let alone marry they are going to need to lower their standards. There's not enough marriage material men around for women today.

[–]OfSpock0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

There never was. Luckily, some women are fine being on their own.

[–]guffynemo0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Actually there was during when the economy was more industry based. As less people where college educated overall and men right out of high school could get decent paying jobs. That isn't the case anymore. Now women are more educated than men and getting out of high school at best you get a working class job that depending on where you live just barely enough to live on. Yes more women today are fine being single for live. But women are also not happy with the lack of dateable men around either.

[–]OfSpock0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men cheat, gamble and are violent more than women and those stats have dropped. When Kinsey did his first report in the 50s, half of all married men admitted to cheating.

There was just great social pressure on women to get married.

Women may not be as happy being single as they would be in a good marriage, but they're happier than being trapped in a bad marriage.

[–]guffynemo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes men bad women good and women had it worse then men. I get it. Also wasn't there numerous flaws with Kinsey's study? But I really don't know what your trying to get at here.

[–]BigFatMoggyEejit 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

I get you, I honestly think this is all just because girls are better looking than guys. I think maybe before it was compensated by girls (or people in general) not caring as much about looks but now it's caused problems as society has gotten more superficial.

I don't see how anyone can blame women for this dynamic. It's just a natural advantage they have the same way guys have an innate athletic advantage. A solution other than asking women to shag unattractive men is needed because that goes against human nature.

[–]TheLongerCon11 points12 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

No, it's because men are thirstier than women. Men go for quantity, women go for quality.

Very attractive men have no problem having sex with women who are less attractive them for novelty and ease of it. The relatively average women can get laid with really attractive dudes, especially when they're young and just looking for something casual.

The only reasons she didn't before, is because those guys didn't approach her or she was scared as being seen as a slut. Now with tinder none of those matter.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

okay, and why have women and their mating choices resulted in male sexlessness? lol its because the quality of men has dropped. its still men's fault they're not getting laid...they're the ones who care so much. sexless women are largely fine.

[–]darkmoon092 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

On average maybe the quality of men has droppes somewhat, but it's not like the quality of women is any better. Average/ugly women refuse to couple up with guys of their equal. Even ugly fat landwhales feel like they deserve Chad.

[–]MxCmrnPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I would argue the quality of men has probably stayed the same. Every generation has it average, and it’s losers, and the most desirable have always been the fewest at the top. It’s women’s relatively new freedom that’s new. So they can be more choosy, and there it’s anything wrong with that. Just like there’s nothing wrong with a guy deciding not to marry, or play the field as long as he can, or date younger women.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me9 points10 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Buried deep in there is the real reason.

a spike in celibacy fuelled by economics, technology, female empowerment

TL:DR women don't want sex, now they have other ways of making money and the power to say no, sex is plummeting.

[–]we-are-men-with-ven6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

>women don't want sex

Why do you say that? Is it because they don't want sex with you?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Women want sex, but the threshold to turn them on has never been higher.

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

women don't want sex

Women want sex. Many want sex just and much or even more than most guys. However, they want sex with hot guys.

Just be hot and everything is cool.

[–]DarkLady7890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

false. women do want sex , sex on their terms.

[–]BothWaysItGoesLibertarian1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They are nerds and watch porn because they don't fuck. If there weren't porn, games and other addictive activities, there would be a rape epidemic.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater56 points57 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

I think the real shit is most of the manosphere doesn't really care about the numbers anymore, at least not in a real way. After like a decade of being told they were crazy for noting observable reality those dudes aren't exactly jumping for joy at a backhanded "whoops, guess you were right, but so was I even though I wasn't" while the blogs try to shift it into porn or gamergate or their pet issues.

What gets me isn't even the incels or the men actively in the manosphere. What gets me is the guys who aren't in the 27% and the amount of absurd shit they have to put up with just to stay there. A big chunk of them are basically just dancing monkeys trying to hold the attention of women less attractive than them, knowing the minute she gets bored that 3 can have 8 other dudes lined up to pick from.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

It’s true. I would watch a friend of mine dance and try his hardest to entertain women while we were loving together. I had given up trying to get casual sex being short and having an average face I realized it was a battle I wasn’t going to win, but to his credit he still tried although being objectively below average. I would see him truly pound the pavement, he could talk to just about any girl, and they just weren’t feeling it whatsoever. They would straight up just ditch him, and shoot him down hard, but then there would be guys lined up to talk to them next. I didn’t even blame the girls, the men lined up to try their luck were more objectively attractive than my friend, and could probably get the same jokes, wit, and personality from them. Even worse is trying a tinder experiment as an objectively average looking girl and finding loads of attractive dudes coming onto her, messaging her, sending compliments to get into her pants. As an average looking dude, it’s absolutely defeating seeing your competition.

[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This has always been true.

This is not the reason why men are failing to have their needs met today.

Think more. Think inwards.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Hm.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

What?

[–]Sad_Virgin_Beta_Male12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So tue. I know so many males like this. Damn, most of my male friends live this shitty kind of life

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Did you lose your vcard .

[–]Sad_Virgin_Beta_Male0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No 😭😭😭

[–]thegreatcornholio421 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And half the guys that aren't part of the 20 some odd percent are settling for women that would normally be well below their standards to stay off of this statistic. Add on the fact that probably about 10 percent of the guys who are getting laid are also gay as well

[–]rathyAro0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What gets me is the guys who aren't in the 27% and the amount of absurd shit they have to put up with just to stay there

Eh I feel like once you can get laid it seems easy but if you can't it seems impossible.

[–]reluctantly_red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

once you can get laid it seems easy

Not really -- if you're not a top tier guy every new lay is a lot of work.

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A big chunk of them are basically just dancing monkeys trying to hold the attention of women less attractive than them, knowing the minute she gets bored that 3 can have 8 other dudes lined up to pick from.

Yeah -- it sucks to be a less than superlative man these days.

[–]Zippo-Cat37 points38 points  (49 children) | Copy Link

Fast forward to today and we now see the mainstream beginning to acknowledge that something just isn't right, in particular with young men. It's almost as if...TRP and the manosphere have been onto something tangible in their observations this entire time, but only now are their arguments being seriously considered.

Right, except the mainstream remains completely ignorant about the root cause of it all, considers symptoms the disease(videogames, porn, etc) and ultimately blames men themselves for it.

[–]binkerfluid11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

jUsT pUt DoWn YoUr PhOnE aNd FlIrT

[–]darkmoon098 points9 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

It's a step in the right direction though. It's an improvement from outright denying RP/manosphere observations.

[–]Zippo-Cat21 points22 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Seems to me that if anything, they're just going to double down on feminist screeching.

Remember, NOTHING in society is a problem UNLESS it (also) affects women.

[–]says_harsh_thingsRed Pill - Chad8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Which is why feminists are trying to get rid of the 'problem' for women - that this existence comes at the cost of a husband/father/family. If they can convince women that they dont need to start a family, then women need committed men a whole lot less.

[–]the_calibre_cat3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

That's going to be socialized to men. The left has been trying to destroy the family since leftism was a thing.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Family and its definition changes, and will continue to change. Too bad.

The government should have no say so, whatsoever, in marriage and family formation.

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Nuclear families are a fairly recent invention.

According to the revisionist historians on the left, who are mostly upset that people perpetuate inequality by loving their children more than they love other people's children (bigots), sure. According to reality, not so much.

The government should have no say so, whatsoever, in marriage and family formation.

lol

I hate the government, and to expect this to be a reality is a pipe dream. Property gets transferred in marriage, finances become intertwined, and as long as we must have a state (we must), then the government will be a part of it and those horrible Christians will get to vote on it. Shucks.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

You just love talking about the left. I'm referring to nuclear family as it exist today. Grandparents, aunts, Uncle, cousins. Everyone lived together.

I'm keeping politics out of this.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm referring to nuclear family as it exist today. Grandparents, aunts, Uncle, cousins. Everyone lived together.

Yeah. We were poorer back then, family lived together out of necessity Easter than anything else. Now, Grandma and Grandpa still love the grandkids, but also like having a quiet haven that reflects their time to be able to retreat to.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No it's not.

[–]darkmoon090 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How so?

[–]EminemLovesGrapesSpongebob6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's always the same thing.

"It's men who made this mess and men who need to figure it out on their own and get out of it on their own"

"It's men who made this mess and oh would you look at the poor women she needs help from the environment, the government, the internet, we need to setup funds, charities and housings".

There exists no support structure for these men, in the way that it does for women. Which in part contributes to this problem.

EDIT: not saying men are blameless here. Women tend to have a support structure made from their close peers. Many of these failed men don't have any. Which is their own fault.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This article is proof of that. Says men are less socialized due to technology when if anything both genders would be impacted. Or that there is finally dating equality (whatever that means)

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill4 points5 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

In you opinion. What is the root cause of the problem?

[–]angels_fan_rp10 points11 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Unchecked hypergamy.

[–]DarkLady7890 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

there is no such thing.

women have all the right to ditch men that no longer attract them. one mate for life mantra is nonsensical, no one should stay in deadend relationship. women have the power to walk away and that bothers men. so be it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

lady, we know it.

That is the point. Women have no attraction to men who are not the top of the top

That is why the data.

That is why there is nothing to do.

TRP is a free market advocate after all.

[–]alilabelle 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why should female nature be checked? Male nature isn't.

[–]angels_fan_rp1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Male sexuality is demonized all the time. Are you kidding me??

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

damn second time.. slow clap in fact it's true, males are shamed for constant need of sex. So should women.

[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because its destructive to civilization

[–]Zippo-Cat1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

If you're asking why monogamy was working just fine until 50-100 years ago, the answer is industrial revolution and women entering workforce which eliminated the universal appeal men had in comparison(of owning shit)

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill4 points5 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure if you could say monogamy was working just fine if the only reason it worked is because women were prevented from actually having independence. Forced compliance doesn't mean something is working, it means it's only working for the group in charge.

Also, monogamy is still the standard. At least serial monogamy is. Polygamy is still very much a fringe lifestyle

[–]Zippo-Cat4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

But it wasn't "forced compliance".

Women are attracted to status. To simplify the argument, before industrial revolution only men could have status(to simplify it) which made them naturally more attractive to women. So BOTH parties benefitted. Women benefitted from being married to men they actually thought of as attractive, to a degree.

Nowodays women either get a Chad(who are in short supply) or get stuck in a marriage with a man they DON'T find attractive. How is that a better deal?

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

only men could have status(to simplify it)

So, simplified, only men could achieve power. And women were denied it. Which is another way of saying women were forced to comply because they lacked the agency to accept any other situation.

or get stuck in a marriage with a man they DON'T find attractive.

Why do you that is only a modern trend? They were always married to an unattractive man, the difference was they didnt have the ability to leave it. If that set up was the better deal men and women wouldnt have both left it en mass. There is no reason why men and women cannot return to that frame work by choice. But they dont. Indicating the trad con frame work is not what most people want.

[–]Zippo-Cat1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

So, simplified, only men could achieve power. And women were denied it.

No one "denied" women anything. They just were unwilling or incapable to do the kind of hard work that pre-industrial revolution employment required.

That's why women only started to enter the workforce when it meant swapping comfortable couch for comfortable office chair.

They were always married to an unattractive man, the difference was they didnt have the ability to leave it.

The difference was that the unattractive man still had the status of sole breadwinner, the status of owner of the house, and the status of social convention since back then being a husband actually meant something. All this made him more attractive in the eyes of his wife.

There is no reason why men and women cannot return to that frame work by choice.

lmao of course there is a reason - you can't run a family on a single source of income anymore. Incidentally that too is a result of women entering the workforce, as per simple rules of supply and demand.

[–]boomcheese440 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

All this made him more attractive in the eyes of his wife.

Stop being delusional. All this meant is that she had a better forced deal, not that she was actually sexually attracted to him. I cringe at all the duty sex so many women had to endure.

[–]Zippo-Cat2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

So you deny that men with higher status/in position of power are more sexually attractive to women?

[–]TheLongerCon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

At least serial monogamy is.

Serial monogamy is polygyny

[–]LethalShade0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What would you say is the root cause of it all?

[–]korkyshadow0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men solve problems not women. Why do you think men get pointed out and blamed for all problems throughout all of history?

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just said the same thing.

[–]Ziczor 1 points [recovered]  (18 children) | Copy Link

something is off with current social/dating dynamics

If you refer to the infamous AF/BB it/s always been like that. Current tech just allows for easier access to chad dicks leaving the rest with their own hands.

[–]darkmoon095 points6 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

I don't think its been openly noted and acknowledged the way it's starting to now though. It used to be something that people would brush under the rug and pretend it didn't exist. People are less inclined to paint lipstick on a pig now.

[–]Ziczor 1 points [recovered]  (15 children) | Copy Link

Also men will NEVER admit they're useless pieces of shit in the gene pool. The real brutalpill to swallow.

[–]blackkindergods11 points12 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I will. I shouldn’t exist. My parents fucked up.

[–]BlindingTwilight 1 points [recovered]  (11 children) | Copy Link

That is not true. The black pill is a vile cult and it should not be accepted by anyone. Sexual strategy has nothing to do with a person’s intrinsic value or as to what they choose to do with their life.

[–]the_calibre_cat8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, you say that, but...

...sexual failure is a hard, hard, emotional pill to swallow, yo. Women could care less. Men can't care less.

[–]oneprettycoolcat4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it does. In a market, if no one will purchase a product no matter how far you lower the price, then it is by definition worthless. This is what it's like to be a man.

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Sexual success is a basic darwinian measure of success. Which is as close to objectively 'good' as you'll find, outside religious thinking. To dissociate it with intrinsic value feels overly dismissive.

The other stuff is good too, but let's not pretend sex is nothing.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Natural selection doesn't give a shit about perfection though, just enough is more than enough to procreate. If it wasn't there wouldn't be billions of people sitting at the middle and lower end of the bell curve. We wouldn't have average height at 5'7" and average IQ at 97.

If it mattered, intelligent people would have unstoppable sexual drive, Newton wouldn't die a Virgin when an average retarded arab who cant do basic math has ten children.

Sex is attainable for ugly people, you just have to be more cunning, manipulative and agressive.

[–]BlindingTwilight 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree that it has an effect on your overall sense of value as a man, no doubts about that. However it does not relegate a person to the waste bin of life. Historically very few men have successfully reproduced, that is hypergamy at work. Failing in the SMP does not prevent a person from enjoying art, sport, literature, their job, their friends or their family. There is much more to life than sex.

[–]Ziczor 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Failing in the SMP does not prevent a person from enjoying art, sport, literature, their job, their friends or their family. There is much more to life than sex.

Obviously you can, but the lack of sex/possibility to procreate will kill you from the inside, no matter what else you try to compensate it with.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Women determine mens value, and they have decided some men have no value

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Things like divorce are meaningless now. Used to ruin you socially

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

The mainstream knows full well about these issues. It's just that in the past they'd only affect 5% maybe 10% of men at worst.

There was no Tinder, travel was expensive, people were wary. Most women had to make do with the men they had around.

Nowadays, any woman with a smartphone has a smorgasboard of Chads who seemingly want a shot at loving her (most just want a pump & dump).

So, by comparison, her local Marvin with his awkward glasses and bouquet of flowers seems like a joke.

Why have your local dude who's actually in love with you take you to the State Fair, when you can instead go to the big city and party with Chad and Tyrone?

After all, "Girls just wanna have fun!"

And then in their 30s : "Why aren't there any Chads who want to love me like Melvin did?"

Meanwhile Melvin stopped giving a fuck. He moved to the big city himself or he started a local business, made money, and learned how to act more like a badboy.

He's either fucking hookers or raiding the local HS to impress a young girl so she'll marry him when she hits 18, before having a chance at boarding the party CC train.

[–]OfSpock38 points39 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

According to the article, Melvin is still watching porn in his parent;s house, too afraid to ask a woman out.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country18 points19 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Because the dude on the article was an idiot (or at least didn't want to cause any controversies).

The most glaring thing that happened around 2008 was the rise of social media and OLD.It gave women unprecedented power in the SMP and didn't benefit most men at all(it did make hookups more convenient for top 20% men) .So we are now at the current situation where 1 in 3 men can't get laid within a year and the numbers keep rising.Also we have to remember men overreport in these surveys so the number is probably higher.

[–]darkmoon095 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Gotta ask yourself how so many of these Melvins came ended up these situations.

[–]OfSpock-2 points-1 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Men are lazy by nature. I wrote a post about it. If they think they can get laid without putting in effort, they will try it.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me18 points19 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Couldn't possibly be the constant feminist narrative that any sexual interest a man has is in essence rape if it's unwanted, by the way it's unwanted, and here's your four hour class on consent and it just casually mentions everything you say and do is probably wrong and deserving of incarceration?

Here's a fun idea: find ONE positive thing said about the human penis in The Vagina Monologues. The same play that has a woman drug and rape an underage girl who then smiles and says "if it was a rape, it was a good rape." Because female sexuality is so good, pure, holy, wonderful, and fantastic that even if a woman manipulates an underage child and jams her knuckles into her and so forth, it's so totally not bad in any way.

[–]we-are-men-with-ven1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The same play that has a woman drug and rape an underage girl who then smiles and says "if it was a rape, it was a good rape."

You've taken that out of context. It was the young (victim) girl who was saying 'if it was rape, it was good rape' and at no point is it condoned by Ensler. In fact theres no commontary on the morality of it at all.

>Here's a fun idea: find ONE positive thing said about the human penis in The Vagina Monologues.

Well duh, thats because its not the subject of the book. Do you open a book called 'caravans weekly' and complain that theres nothing about dental practice?

>and here's your four hour class on consent

You laugh - yet plenty of men in those seminars are pretty ignorant of what consent actually is and express suprise to find out that having sex with a drunk/asleep chick is rape. I remember seeing a thread on r/army discussing it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's probably a mix of both. Men can be a bit lazy.

But the feminist narrative that sexual harassment is subjective so it gets to be defined by individual women instead of the law has also contributed greatly.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

But the feminist narrative that sexual harassment is subjective so it gets to be defined by individual women instead of the law has also contributed greatly.

Also the revelation that women really aren't into sex at all. They're into validation and power, but actual sex? Meh.

[–]ffbtawPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men tend to be lazy if they think they can get sex without trying or if they don't think they can get sex even if they try. The hollowing out of the middle class is causing those two groups to grow in size.

[–]Zippo-Cat4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Meanwhile Melvin stopped giving a fuck. He moved to the big city himself or he started a local business, made money, and learned how to act more like a badboy.

lmao

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why have your local dude who's actually in love with you the you to the State Fair, when you can instead go to the big city and party with Chad and Tyrone?

Because eventually Chad will stop calling, and that's when you call your "local dude" and have him pay your bills for you when you "are ready for the nice guy" and decide to give him a chance.

At 39.

But before you give him that shot gets out notepad how much money do you have? How many bedrooms does your house have? How much is in your 401K? How good is your credit?

[–]BigFatMoggyEejit 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

Is Melvin a 30 year old hitting up highschools to pull 18 year old girls ?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Sometimes. heck I know a 32 year old Chad who's dating a 19 year old.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

A dude in his 30s dsti g a woman who can't even legally drink yet? I dated a 21 year old when I was 35 and it was weird as hell..we had nothing in common and I broke it off.

It may be legal, but it's creepy as fuck.

[–]amendment640 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

fucking weird tbh

[–]alilabelle 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol. These fantasies never fail to amuse

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

which fantasies?

Less sexually desirable, "safe", guys either go monk mode, adopt p TRP (in part or fully) or they become beta bucks.

[–]DarkLady7890 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

men's revenge fantasies like this one always make me laugh.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not a revenge fantasy. "Losers" (beta men) either learn to fake it, many times with great success or they just give up on dating and social activities and remain "losers".

Really the big issue here is the introverted men are given a really shit time by the world not just in terms of romance but opportunity cost as well.

These men aren't born resenting women, they end up this way because the world is never straightforward with them.

They try to "be themselves" which is being straightforward to the world, and it greets them back either by using them and discarding them, ignoring them entirely or, worse, with violence.

And sure you can argue "you're not owed honesty in return for honesty" as many people here on PPD do, but that's just bullshit.

[–]DarkLady7891 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

wtf does men's incompetence have to do with women? are women now to be blamed for men's social autism? a skill like any other? well, this is why radical feminism is on the rise and women are growing tired of men's shit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

wtf does men's incompetence have to do with women? are women now to be blamed for men's social autism?

Well, the older the parents are at conception, the more likely the kid will come out autistic.

a skill like any other?

Not really, unlike other skills good social ability needs at least two willing participants. Autistic boys get bullied and excluded from most kids' social groups as young as 4. Human nature is, in part, to blame. But adults who don't teach their kids better are also to blame.

INB4 "Why should MY kids have to play with the weird kids?"
Not a big problem when one or two moms think that way. A HUGE problem when MOST moms do it.

well, this is why radical feminism is on the rise and women are growing tired of men's shit.

Carry on then, keep radical feminism on the rise.

The reason women have it quite good right now is that there are still lots of working men (who contribute a majority of taxes out there).
https://www.victoria.ac.nz/news/2014/research-shows-disparity-between-tax-paid-by-women-and-men

Aside from that, about 1/3rd of single mothers rely almost exclusively on child support and alimony.

Also, radical feminists argue that women should pay lower taxes, with men being taxed even more:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/snow-white-doesnt-live-here-anymore/201111/why-women-should-pay-lower-taxes

But up and coming generations of men are full of "losers" whom, if they do so at all, will only work jobs with a minimum or median wage.

So you're right women are "blameless" in all of this but only passively so.
Women don't choose to act in general. In fact they don't even choose not to act.
They will almost always choose the wallflower / plausible deniability option.

How did that old saying go?
"As a woman, I have no country... as a woman, my country is the whole world." a.k.a "Dick is worthless, pussy is priceless."
But pussy is only priceless as long as there are men around to worship it. Without men around, women too are worthless.

[–]Shazoa2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Mainstream is definitely waking up to certain realities, but one of the reasons it's taken so long, and the the reason why TRP is still so unpalatable, is that the proposed causes and outcomes seem extreme to outside observers.

Everyone is starting to agree there is a trend. People disagree on most everything else.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

give time, They can only evade the issue until the shit start hitting the fan.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

They're never going to acknowledge the root of the problem. So, its moot.

[–]darkmoon090 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think they will eventually, probably sooner rather than later, because like I said earlier this shit is getting to a point where it's getting increasingly harder to ingore or downplay. Five years ago no one outside the interwebs really knew what 'red pill', 'incel', 'chad', AFBB, or 80/20 really were.

Now that jargon and terminology has seeped into mainstream outlets. Of course their initial reaction is going to be one of shock, amusement, and disgust...but just wait, the conversation has begun and it's not going to just fade into the night.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No..you don't understand how culture works.

[–]darkmoon090 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Care to explain?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

for Trump to get elected

Trump got elected because guys are not getting laid?

[–]darkmoon0915 points16 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I'm saying Trump is a symptom of a larger social ill, in this case an increasing population of isolated, depressed, angry young men.

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Really all numbere suggest about 95%of trump voters are the same people who also voted for romney and bush would have voted for whatever turd had R next to their name . Unless you think depressed angry young men only vote Republicans. Then you wrong .

[–]darkmoon091 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bush and Romney were normal presidents though. Trump is something else entirely.

[–]TheLongerCon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Trump won by 80,000 votes, 5% is alot. Even 1% is alot.

[–]ohheyhi99Conflicted Feminist Man, No Pill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think a lot of people who would’ve voted against Trump decided to stay home because the other option was the Hillary coalition. I knew something was going on when I heard tons of people saying that Trump and Hillary were equally bad.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but even a 5% difference was enough to net him not only swing states but some light blue states nobody thought he'd take in a million years. Trump wasn't appealing to young men the way he was usual republican specimens and they didn't all glom onto him but enough of them, combined with enough other swing voters, got him a victory.

[–]DarkLady7890 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

they all need stronger meds. women are not obligated to sleep with anyone.

[–]darkmoon090 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah right, I'd argue that Big Pharma meds produce the opposite effect. It's part of the reason these guys are in the situation that they're in.

[–]RhoubbheIt all ends in fire0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm saying Trump is a symptom of a larger social ill, in this case an increasing population of isolated, depressed, angry young men.

Civilizations tend to come apart when there are large numbers of angry and disaffected young men. The solution to the problem tends to be warfare.

[–]darkmoon091 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Scary to think about but you're largely right. The political tribalism in the U.S. right now is a little more than disturbing.

[–]RhoubbheIt all ends in fire0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good points. Tribalism is a species feature of our species. Our identity is not just tied to supporting our favorite sports team, political party, nation, or religion; it is even more so tied to hating rival 'tribes'.

I think it is evolutionary. We evolved to be very hyper-competitive as early on we weren't the only hominid species. After our cousins went extinct we only had each other, and that led to where we are now..

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I for one will enjoy watching the livestreamed political violence during the 2020 election season

[–]darkmoon090 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why?

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm all about that accelerationism. Let's get the party started already

[–]Jasontheperson0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't have a great track record.

[–]geyges🐇11 points12 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Even dudes that are getting laid feel like their masculinity is being challenged.

They don't see an insecure elderly rich dumb cunt. They see an alpha male with money and multiple trophy wives. If you can measure success in life, that's pretty high up there. Every little boy aspires to that on a subconscious level. Money.Power.Respect.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This. I have friends who've had girlfriends and are getting dates and need to work on themselves just to feel like men. I have friends who are college athletes working out and they're still orbiting because they've had basically no real guidance at how to show interest or escalate. I have friends who have basically given up and checked out.

Trump gets an absurd amount of respect from my male friends whenever his name comes up, even when I keep my mouth shut. The strong man act speaks to a lot of men who either never got to play the act or don't know how.

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Billionaire playboy celebrity and now president of the United States. Bonus points for the fact that the preening moralizers, feminists, and worthless propagandists all hate him. His policies are really mostly "meh" to me but he denies those assholes political power over me and watching them "cope" with that is nice.

[–]geyges🐇1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

he denies those assholes political power over me and watching them "cope" with that is nice.

Right. For most people its about sticking it to the establishment. Nobody really knows what they want, but they know they don't want career politicians, bureaucrats, and academics telling them how much they suck.

There's a generation of kids now growing up that see Trump as an establishment. I hope they'll swing the pendulum back in the intellectual direction rather than hardcore 3rd wave feminist direction.

[–]shipiaoziGynocentrism patriarchy is great0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Billionaires are radical beta provider.

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think it had an effect. Women vote demorat, men dating discuss politics etc and might be influenced atleast a bit on aggregate.

This sub explored the idea that trump winning was the "revenge of the niceguy" after the election. Every single place weird spergy men congregate online is TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP. I believe it

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Weird spergy men online are just a loud minority though, I doubt it was a significant enough factor.

[–]DarkLady7891 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

wtf

manuresphere and TRP are not right about anything. they are simply bothered by the fact that women are free to have sex with men they want. it is a free market, because sex is not a commodity that can be bought. no man is entitled to sex.

manurepshere is toxic and it should be dismantled like a ticking timebomb. quickly.

[–]darkmoon090 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The mainstream will outright deny TRP/manosphere, even though TRP assertions have been shown to be true, or at least not entirely untrue

Sorry, but TRP/manosphere is right about some things.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

like you said. sex is a commodity like labor. Now think with me, what happens when everyone flocks to a single source of high value labor like china and russia and away from low value labor like the first world?

see the point?

[–]DarkLady7890 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

sex is not a commodity and men are not entitled to it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

None is entitled to any commodity. Do you even know the definition of a commodity?

[–]Hackars0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

In most people, there is a strong and undeniable human need for intimacy. Perhaps no one is entitled to it, but you can't say that it isn't a commodity. Problems with mental health are common in people who have been starved of intimacy.

[–]SmeggingRightGot flair? Hell yeah!0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

So yeah, it's good for the mainstream to finally acknowledge what TRP and the manosphere has been saying all along. It's just too bad that it took for multiple mass shootings by incels and for Trump to get elected for them to finally admit it.

The fuck we needed the manosphere to report on anything. Everything coming out of that black hole is red herrings.

Many of the shooters were good looking enough to get girls, and one of them both good looking enough and rich. Many of them way too young to be 'incels'. It wasn't about girls. It was about their own perceived insufficiencies.

Only a fuckwit would think that they give any insight into the SMP.

The real picture is that people are worried about over-population and the timebomb of global warming and the tech takeover of jobs. They either don't want to have kids or they're putting it off. And if they don't want kids or don't want them for another decade, then there is no huge urge to go out and date.

The mainstream has been reporting on the tech takeover and the effect of porn for decades. They've also been reporting on what's been happening in Japan. We already know why and how it happens.

The only thing the manosphere has been throwing into the mix is shadows and dead ends. Like telling us to wait until we're 38 to find a 25-year-old hottie and get married. I guarantee my 22-year-old girlfriend is not interested in men over 30 and I would not get a girl anything like her if I waited. All I'd get is a girl who is interested in money more than me.

[–]darkmoon090 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You seem so sure of yourself, what makes you an expert on the subject?

[–]SmeggingRightGot flair? Hell yeah!0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I could say the exact same for you.

This is a debate sub, right? That's the nature of debating.

[–]darkmoon090 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You first.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The fuck we needed the manosphere to report on anything. Everything coming out of that black hole is red herrings.

Many of the shooters were good looking enough to get girls, and one of them both good looking enough and rich. Many of them way too young to be 'incels

you just proven their point. they had everything to be well in the market yet they weren't. That is the point.

[–]SmeggingRightGot flair? Hell yeah!0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you just proven their point. they had everything to be well in the market yet they weren't. That is the point.

Did you read my point about many of them being too young to even be 'in the market'? And, we're not talking just about the opposite sex, these guys were usually loners who didn't connect with many people at all.

It's not a case of 'women don't want me', it's a case of wanting to get back at society for not being popular. Somewhere along the line, some guys began to think it was a good thing to shoot innocent people dead because of his own social issues.

[–]MercyYouMercyMe39 points40 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

But that still does not seem to explain the persistence of America’s sex recession, or its most extreme feature: how concentrated it is among men. Since 2008 there has been almost a threefold rise in the share of men under the age of 30 who claim to be having no sex. At the same time, the portion of sexless women increased by only 8%. A range of possible explanations for the disparity has been suggested, and the students seemed to corroborate several of them. Many felt men’s social skills had been especially eroded by over-reliance on technology. Overindulgence in porn meanwhile offered them an escape route from reality. Yet the most compelling answer, because it contains elements of all that and more, may be signalled by young people’s increasing reluctance to date.

Fucking lol this shit cracks me up, I literally laughed out loud. This is Orwellian...

Not sure what the economist editorial board is like nowadays, but I was thinking the other day these are the same people who will decry capitalism, free markets, and economic deregulation as "trickle down economics" and claim such policies will allow the 1% to accumulate more wealth, wealth inequality and all that, BAD. Yet in the same breathe say everyone will pair up 1:1 <3, more sex for everyone (rising tide raises all boats...), are completely oblivious to the SMP and increasing sexual inequality, dating racing to the bottom, and just suggest that men need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Does anyone else see the irony?

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater36 points37 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It really has become this race to the bottom. A lot of women who get pumped and dumped complain romance is dead but now that the most socially acceptable way to meet women is a hook up app the results are kind of self explanatory. If an average dude knows he's fighting 20 other guys for a womans attention and the most attractive two or three just say netflix and chill, he's not gonna put in the effort.

[–]binkerfluid11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If an average dude knows he's fighting 20 other guys for a womans attention and the most attractive two or three just say netflix and chill, he's not gonna put in the effort.

exactly

[–]SirNemesismary cucked joseph[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If an average dude knows he's fighting 20 other guys for a womans attention and the most attractive two or three just say netflix and chill, he's not gonna put in the effort.

Quoted for truth.

[–]analt223No Pill14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Its also funny how people are saying its the economy when people in their 20s have always been broke, its not because of sub prime home loans (which 20 somethings werent even really buying back then).

The real problem is social media (which rose to prominence in its current form around 07/08) made the truth show: the vast majority of men are unattractive to the majority of women, and men are actually the emotional lover idiots.

[–]oneprettycoolcat3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also personal experience I am far from broke yet have very little luck with women.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Does anyone else see the irony?

It's not irony when you realize almost every intellectual/political idealogy is structurally similar to every other one and is merely about moving target demographics around. "They have it easy, we have it hard -- they just need to try harder, we deserve better treatment -- the system needs be to changed to suit our needs, not theirs -- they are selfishly pursuing their agenda and ruining society, we are the only ones who can save it -- we are strong and moral, they are weak and indolent" etc etc etc. Just swap out "they" and "us" for rich/poor, black/white, religious/non religious, capitalist/socialist and you get the basis for every existing idealogy.

[–]MxCmrnPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Spot on mate.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really the economist has never really been good at talking about those issues.

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes i see the irony both ways i also see the irony in redpillers who support libertarians policies when it comes to the economy but can't understand how they screw yhe average joe 6pack the way they . The way the unregulated smp does .

[–]blackkindergods4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The economist is neoliberal but I do agree the msm is GASLIGHTING

[–]SmeggingRightGot flair? Hell yeah!1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Men's social skills have been eroded by tech. Net porn has had a deep impact.

But I offer up another clue. It's not what men are doing or what women are doing. People don't have a big urge to race out and have kids anymore. That's the big reason.

Because there is a worry of over-population and the timebomb of global warming and the worry about the tech takeover of jobs.

That's true for both men and women.

If there's little widespread urge to have kids, then there's little motivation to date with a view to marriage.

Women will be more choosy with partners and husbands if they don't want kids/are undecided.

Men will either ride the 'pussy carousel' or give up on women altogether (especially if they find women hard to get). Only the diehards who still want to get married and have kids will end up pairing up, because they'll put in the effort.

[–]N0blesse0blige2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Because there is a worry of over-population

There is a global over-population problem. However, regionally, in the West, the proplem is the opposite. People are having too few children.

[–]SmeggingRightGot flair? Hell yeah!1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

People are having too few children.

To keep capitalism alive, yep. To keep humans alive, nope.

[–]N0blesse0blige1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To keep capitalism alive, yep.

Only a Marxist can cram so much falsehood into one sentence.

[–]DissentientUnplugged0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's true that western countries have fertility rates below replacement, but it's also true that those countries are extremely wasteful, and westerner having a child has more global impact than someone from a developed country having 5 children.

[–]N0blesse0blige1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Simple: Reduce consumption and increase reproduction in the West (and Japan). Increase consumption (where appropriate to reduce poverty) and reduce reproduction in most/much of the rest of the world.

The notion that the whole world needs the exact same solutions is as silly as treating all patients in a hospital for the same disease.

[–]says_harsh_thingsRed Pill - Chad0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not arguing against your point, but I can't make anything from their misuse of statistics. You can't compare a "3x" number with a "only 8%" increase number without knowing what the percentage of men originally is. Do they explain it elsewhere in the article? I didn't read it.

If the percentage of sexless men under 30 is 4%, and it increases by a factor of 3, that an increase of 8%, equal to women's. It doesn't sound like this is the case here, I'm just pointing out the ambiguity in the statistics

[–]MercyYouMercyMe6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well essentially they are obfuscating the revelations from here - https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/

Saying 30% of men are sexless compared to 18%, men increasing 20% compared to 8% women, has clear implications, but like I said it's orwellian and they are being deliberately ambiguous with their weird comparison. It leaves you with no idea of the actual situation just that men have it a little worse and it's because they watch porn and are losers.

[–]-OpportunityCostI don't care about your problems0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep this is spot on. These people have literally no idea what it is like for a 20 year old male growing up today. Relationships and sex are so radically different than when those people grew up. Everytime I see an article like this I just laugh and take absolutely nothing from it because they are writing from an unknown perspective on the matter.

[–]DarkLady7890 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

SMP is not unequal because that would mean men are entitled to sex and relationships. no, they are entitled to try and woo women and if it fails it is because they failed not because women are being bitches who have sky-high standards.

[–]MercyYouMercyMe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The free market is not unequal because that would mean people are entitled to other people's money. They are entitled to economic opportunity and if they are poor it's because they failed.

[–]N0blesse0blige49 points50 points  (42 children) | Copy Link

A lot of half-truth bullshit here.

Very few men will actively choose video games over fucking if they are actually able to get laid in the first place.

I also dare suggest that these men’s social skills aren’t that bad. Rather their social interaction and initiation is often unwanted and rejected by most women. Technically it’s these women who show poor social skills because they harshly dismiss perfectly polite attempts to make contact. If one’s social presence is wanted there will be social cues and hints to match that desire. Women will smile and make eye contact, give time and space for a casual opener, and invite social interaction in other ways. It is extremely hard to demonstrate good social skills if the other party rejects social contact, but you will absolutely look like you have poor social skills.

Neither do most men plausibly postpone dating because of their career. That’s girl talk, and reflects having basic sexual needs already covered (which most women do without much complication). Dating and meeting a girlfriend are things that motivate men to focus on their career, not something that gets in the way of it. It’s something women would say (and some of these "girlfriendly" half-men numen probably parrot it to sound like regular everyday men with vaginas, I guess) and what they probably frequently mean is that getting fucked without commitment from the few favored men is messing with their heads, and now they’re putting dating "on hold". They either hibernate their sex drive (a distinctly female superpower), or, more likely, have a fuck friend.

[–]Shadow_Of_ 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

"Men neeed better social skills instead of playing viddyagaems"

"Proceeds to bash men and get pissy and uncomfortable when one talks to you on the street" God damn woman if you eat any more hypocrisy you might choke to death.

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband[M] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Tone down the circle-jerk please

[–]N0blesse0blige4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You’re obviously just envious because you were not included in our glorious circle-jerk.

Also, what kind of circle-jerk includes merely a single nod of recognition in each direction. I bet you ask people to get a room when they shake hands upon meeting, too.

[–]oneprettycoolcat3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Very few men will actively choose video games over fucking if they are actually able to get laid in the first place.

I don't think that's true.

I can get laid. Not regularly, and certainly not with women I find attractive, but I can sometimes manage it. However, it is a lot of work. I have to spend hours and hours a week in the gym, have to have my life on point, have to be witty, charming, and aggressive, and for what? So I get a chance for some starfish sex with Bertha the 300 pound single mother who will vanish and go off with the other 500 guys I am competing with if I just make one mistake?

No thanks. I'll just drink, jerk off, and play video games. It's not as nice as actually being able to have sex, but it's a whole lot less work.

[–]I_had_mine0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Man these comments are so depressing sometimes hahaha

[–]cattermelon34ADHD medication is a feminist conspiracy4 points5 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

harshly dismiss perfectly polite attempts to make contact.

Totally wrong. More like "women no longer coddle men." Ask any woman and she'll be able to tell you how creepy dudes get.

I think you're under the impression that women are screaming at any dude who asks them out when in reality they no longer have to put up with the asshole they rejected 8 times and threatened to murder/rape them.

[–]N0blesse0blige43 points44 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

The average woman has distanced herself from the average man. Her percentile match is now a creep to her. Don’t fool yourself, seriously.

Let me tell you this story. A literal hobbit woman straight outta the Shire was checking me out at a bar a while back when I was in good shape (and I’ll be the first to admit it’s not the first time I bring up this story). She made several attempts to prompt me to bring her initiative further, under the pretense of having me help her with her phone. You know, as far as women will typically go in taking the initiative without seemingly doing so.

Right beside her, sitting literally ten feet across from her, was her perfect hobbit match. Another hobbit, a Mr Hobbit, also straight from the Shire. They looked like two cartoon characters who had fallen out of the television screen, and become separated in this reality after the credits were rolling.

He was her perfect match. But she was checking out me, a normal human being from the race of men, who has at least been on first, second and third dates with girls who are strong 7s and bona fide 8s.

EDIT: Wow, many thanks for the reddit gold! I’ve never received anything like that before, and I need to actually read up on what it is and what it does now, but either way I really appreciate it!

Also, spelling corrections.

[–]cattermelon34ADHD medication is a feminist conspiracy9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I didn't realize men never try to date up too......

[–]N0blesse0blige20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, occasionally, but for women it has now become the norm rather than the exception. We are not discussing this. You will sit down for a second and think about, and realize that I have a very valid point. Jusk ask your fucking girlfriends. Do they, or do they not, actively distinguish between between what men they can get for sex, and what men they can get for a serious relationship? If they don’t, you know their perception is fucked. And a lot of women, most women, still don’t. A romantic view of life and "love just happens" forbids it.

[–]N0blesse0blige13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you seriously downvoting now? Because my writing offended you, but somehow immediately also outmatched your own writing skills? That’s a whole new level of loserdom.

[–]DarkLady7891 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

okay....

people can be attracted to attractive people of both genders. they are not obligated to date their looksmatch.

more importantly, they are not entitled to being with people they deem attractive; they can try to woo them but they are not promised success. and that is what most men seem to forget, SMP is a free market, you go out, you try to pick up a girl, she rejects you because its her prerogative and thats it.

[–]N0blesse0blige2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

This is all fine and well. The real question is if single mothers are morally entitled to men’s tax money.

Have a free resource market to go with that free sexual market. You should be going out, see if you can find a man who is willing to start a family with you, or if you’re a single mother, help you raise and fund another man’s children. Suddenly, more hobbit men would be considered eligible and attractive, I think.

[–]DarkLady7892 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

first of all, not all women want crotchspawn or to get married. i am one of those women.

secondly, nothing will ever make me see hobbits attractive.

[–]N0blesse0blige2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

"Crotchspawn"? You know, fuck off with your child-free, anti-human neologistic vocabulary.

[–]DarkLady7892 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

fck off

i can and will talk the way i want. if you dont like it, the door's right there.

[–]N0blesse0blige2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Listen, I forgot to consider that you may be a struggling a person, who may even have rationalized your "child-free" position in the face of other circumstances. Or that in some other way you may not be resourceful and happy. I’m sorry. Maybe consider less offensive wording though. Not everyone worships trees and view carbon dioxide producers as the devil’s chldren, or whatever.

[–]DarkLady7892 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Respecting men in the modern way is fundamentally unladylike.

[–]darkmoon093 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

LOL dude this has me cracking up, thanks.

[–]N0blesse0blige2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks, really appreciate hearing this. And the reddit gold? I don’t even know what that is, and how it works, but it sure looks cool next to my user name!

[–]boomcheese44-1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

What does it matter? Girls arnt sexually attracted to guys that are not sexually attractive. You say she should be with her match, but it wouldnt be a fulfilling relationship for either of them. You yourself dates up.

[–]N0blesse0blige0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Right now I’m dating down (although I hesitate to talk that way about her because she’s a very good person, and I care for her).

The hobbit woman will be way more miserable later in life, if she, let’s say, ends up alone and childless because of her impossible standards. Of course she can learn to love Mr Hobbit, if only she can learn to respect him and look up to him.

[–]DarkLady7891 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

her standards arent impossible, her attraction to the attractive men is organic and natural. she is better off single than with a man she cant look at.

[–]N0blesse0blige1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Either a lot of men and women will end up childless then, or women will increasingly be having children with a select few men and having the rejected men fund their single motherhood. The latter is what we’re seeing, not what you are describing. Ms Hobbit finds a more attractive man to sleep, has her children, and has mostly male tax payers fund them for the next 18 years.

I think women need to choose: Either we have a full libertarian or minimal government society, with full economic and sexual freedom for everyone. That means the increasing amount of single mothers would have to rely on voluntary help, get by themselves, or on adoption by economically responsible couples. Or, you know, Ms. Hobbit would have to ask Mr. Hobbit if he is still interested in her though he would be raising another man’s child.

Or, women will have to tolerate some regulation and voluntary redistribution in the sexual market place, to match the heavy and ubiquitious economic regulation and redistribution from men to women through taxation.

Regulation and redistribution in the sexual market place could be: Expectation of limiting sex to committed relationships/marriage 1.0/3.0, or tax subsidised access to prostitutes regardless of one’s sex (regardless it would benefit men mostly), and default paternity tests funded by the tax payer.

I want to be clear that I am against any coercive means of regulating the sexual marketplace. No-one should ever have to marry or have sex with someone if they don’t want to. But I’m also against thievery, whether it is labeled ‘taxation’ or not.

[–]boomcheese440 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Of course she can learn to love Mr Hobbit, if only she can learn to respect him and look up to him.

You are dating down now, but you want the best..like all people. Mrs. Hobbit wont likely love Mr. Hobbit or find him sexually attractive because of female sexual nature though is what I'm saying. Its sad that she's ugly, but she's better off alone and single than with someone she does not desire.

The more I read red pill as a woman, the more I see truths in it. Its sad and I was very lucky to even get Mr. Boomcheese44....

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think a lot of men don't realize they have shots with 7's and 8's. Likewise I think a lot of women don't realize they're 3's and 4's.

[–]the_calibre_cat8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think you're under the impression that women are screaming at any dude who asks them out when in reality they no longer have to put up with the asshole they rejected 8 times and threatened to murder/rape them.

Resorting to nonsensical hyperbole to justify being an asshole, female privilege truly is an incredible thing.

[–]Jasontheperson0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's not hyperbole, talk to women about it. Even regular looking women get harassed constantly.

[–]guffynemo0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Technically it’s these women who show poor social skills because they harshly dismiss perfectly polite attempts to make contact.

How is it these women who show poor social skills? Most women don't dismiss men harshly. The ones that do tend to do so because of what the guy did. And even less do it because they are well a bitch.

It is extremely hard to demonstrate good social skills if the other party rejects social contact, but you will absolutely look like you have poor social skills.

No its not hard to demonstrate good social skills. Its actually very easy to. All one really has to do is learn to socialize and that learn to flirt.

[–]N0blesse0blige1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Very few men have such poor social skills that they will run into problems talking to women if they are already physically attractive and in a position of high social status. Women will then become receptive to contact, help carry the conversation, and often be a lot more forgiving towards social clumsiness. How many men have too poor social skills to develop and maintain platonic friendships, for example, or get along with colleagues? Why would flirting and socializing with women really require significantly better social skills?

It’s like "confidence". Confidence is primarily an effect of being attractive, not a cause of attractiveness. The biggest exception are men who understimate their own attractiveness, and thus don’t try when they should.

[–]guffynemo0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

How is it these women who show poor social skills?

Answer the question.

Why would flirting and socializing with women really require significantly better social skills?

I am saying socializing in general and that flirting with women for fun will help men get better at socializing.

Confidence is primarily an effect of being attractive, not a cause of attractiveness

This makes no sense. Being confident is attractive. Just because your attractive doesn't mean its an effect of being being attractive.

[–]N0blesse0blige1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

How is it these women who show poor social skills?

Answer the question.

Don’t tell me what do. I already state very clearly why. Being dismissive towards someone, the way many average women are towards average men, is under any other circumstance considered rude, and thus a display of poor social skills.

Why would flirting and socializing with women really require significantly better social skills?

I am saying socializing in general and that flirting with women for fun will help men get better at socializing.

Frequently better spent lifting, getting in shape, losing weight, dressing better, earning money, advancing their career, leading an interesting life. Most men will find that their social skills are just fine by then. Chad isn’t some effeminate skinny fat guy with super well-developed social skills.

Confidence is primarily an effect of being attractive, not a cause of attractiveness

This makes no sense.

Because you have a difficulty following mildly complex thought processes, apparently. A man commonly gains confidence from being successful with women because he is already attractive. It’s an effect of being of being attractive. More so than confidence alone causes a man to become attractive.

Being confident is attractive. Just because your attractive doesn't mean its an effect of being being attractive.

Appeal to semantics, non-argument. See my answer above. This is my final clarification. I will not entertain you as you play stupid beyond this.

[–]guffynemo0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I already state very clearly why.

If you did then I wouldn't be asking you to answer the question now would I?

Being dismissive towards someone, the way many average women are towards average men, is under any other circumstance considered rude, and thus a display of poor social skills.

So men take zero blame here or share zero fault here for women acting rude? As by your argument here if a guy comes up to a woman acting like an well an ass or a creep she no matter what should be all nice and polite to him no matter what?

Frequently better spent lifting, getting in shape, losing weight, dressing better, earning money, advancing their career, leading an interesting life.

Because doing all of this will make women fall into your lap right? Most guys are reasonable with their social skills, but we are talking about the 30% that aren't getting sex though and possible reasons why. Oh you left out being tall in your TRP nonsense list there.

Because you have a difficulty following mildly complex thought processes, apparently

Or what you said made literally no sense. And no I am not playing stupid. You clearly viewing life thru the lens of RP while I am living in actual reality. You clearly think women should be nice to men no matter how men treat women. And think nothing is wrong with men only with women.

[–]N0blesse0blige 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you did then I wouldn't be asking you to answer the question now would I?

What kind of sanctimonious moron assumes to be both judge and prosecuter at the same time?

[–]guffynemo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How is it these women who show poor social skills?

I wonder what kind of woman did you meet until now. They will treat men like trash and/or invisible as the default behavior. Heck, my 13 years old cousin does it.

[–][deleted]No Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I personally know at least a few men who would rather play video games all day than try to ask a woman out.... I'm not saying this is all their fault, it's just that nowadays there is no real advice for men on how to date, no real role models except shitty superheroes. No wonder many men feel lost.

[–]Jasontheperson0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What fraction of men cold approaching women in public do you think is polite? It ain't much.

[–]EminemLovesGrapesSpongebob11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

There'a huge amount factors that contribute to this. My guesses are;

The general trend of people "settling down" later due to careers and independence taking longer to develop leads men to be focussed to much on careers. I think a lot of men don't think they're ready for dating yet until they have something to offer provider wise. This is my major hurdle to start dating and "having sex!"

I'm going to university, still got some years to go but I'll be nearing 30 when I'm done. Not having a good job, a career and that I moved in again with my parents in order to fund it keeps me from doing anything even involving dating. Even though I shouldn't think that. women date deadbeats by the millions, I'm a catch in comparison. I've got a bright future!

I think a lot of men rather just wank to porn and use video games as an replacement for fulfilment until they've got their ducks in a row. And until then, they're not even bothering going through the metoo gauntlet. This can last way into their early 30's.

Metoo and the rape scared have scared men away from cold approaching women. If you're attractive a cold approach is fine, but be a basic dude you're a creep now. That line exists everywhere in the dynamic, and basic men know they can't dare to cross it.

They can't learn to "get it" because there exists a very, very harsh punishment women have created on crossing that line. And they're fine with that, they don't want to get approached by "ugly" (read, objectively lower than a 7/6) men.

Video games and other secular hobbies have isolated men from going to social gatherings. Maybe more often than not the major social gatherings either are family events (roll tide) , work (don't shit where you eat) , and gaming (no women).

I've gone out of my way recently to get into an outdoors hobby just to get my foot in the door meeting more people. Even though it's still a male hobby the chance of me getting invited to shit gets ever higher. And therefore meeting women is more likely.

Video games aren't a hobby. It doesn't make you interesting and it won't make women like you unless somehow they're one of the few who also play video games. And those are low odds. These secular hobbies are boring and don't add to your SM-/RMV. These aren't social hobbies either. You don't become a socially adept person by passing skill checks in fallout New Vegas. This adds to the problem, it makes men more socially inept and therefore less likely to start and even succeed in dating.

Depending on where you live people have also gotten worse off health wise. Dating in the UK where one third of the people are fat would be a disaster for me. And i'd be fine staying alone if having a girlfriend would mean dating an overweight person. It's just not for me.

Then there's the entire global job market that has changed. For a lot of men "manual labour" was the go-to and you could make a decent living out of it. A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage kind of deal. Now those men are having to face either having a shitty job and dating a women who makes much more than them (culture pride issue) or they have to spend more time on getting back ahead (since women mature earlier they don't tend to make the stupid mistakes men do, because their fertility can't afford it).

.

And I'm 100% there's even more reasons that you could attribute to this problem. So many as to hit the 10.000 character limit on reddit, I've already hit 4000 with this long ass wall of text.

[–]dicklord_airplane4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're right about the climate in academia and technical industries. Im a grad student at an engineering college, and the social environment feels so much more tense than when i started undergrad 10 years ago. The majority of guys are terrified of interacting with women at all due to all the fear mongering, and some women are irrationally suspicious of men. Fewer people are going on dates because of it.

I don't thing the girls are happy with this either. I've heard several of my lady friends in grad school complain that every guy is too much of a sissy to ask women out. They say, "do women have to do everything now, including asking guys out??" Meanwhile, I've heard other women say that men should never ask women out in an academic setting because they are there for an education and not to be bothered by men. Young guys are receiving a lot of contradictory and confusing messages from our institutions and from women, and it's because we all can't agree on the details of how men should behave.

The only way to stay sane and socially functional in this enviroment is to stop caring about what all women think and narrow it down to the ones you want to keep in your life. It is not possible to win every single person's approval no matter what you do, but i think guys feel like they are required to behave perfectly in the eyes of all women simultaneously. That's a fools errand, and it's why they act like deer caught in headlights.

[–]s86ahmed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for a well reasoned comment. You're 100% right about the advice being contradictory and confusing.

[–]Ezaar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hear hear

[–]czerdec19 points20 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Since 2008 there has been almost a threefold rise in the share of men under the age of 30 who claim to be having no sex. At the same time, the portion of sexless women increased by only 8%. A range of possible explanations for the disparity has been suggested

I suspect that one possible explanation for the disparity has received no investigation: the possibility that women are using their greater access to sex to occasionally have sex with men out of their romantic league in order to try and get a desirable boyfriend.

Why oh why am I thinking about Aziz Ansari?

Why do I think that maybe a woman somewhere might consider that a rich talented man might be a desirable boyfriend? Why do I wonder if a woman who has sex with a short, but rich and talented man, might become terribly vindictive when she discovers that the short millionaire has no interest in promoting her to girlfriend?

I really can't imagine where these thoughts are coming from.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Aziz, controversy aside, gets it. He said in his act that its hard to get anyone to commit to anything now because everyone will drop you the moment something else comes up even if they agree.

This is how a lot of women approach relationships in mu experience. The dude doesn't matter. There'll be another in ten minutes. So of course guys who don't want to be disposable just back the fuck out.

[–]Shadow_Of_Chad-Lite32 points33 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Whenever one of these threads are posted you get all of these unempathetic replies from women. God damn, men bend to your every whin but when they want respect and intercourse you just get all pissy and uncomfortable.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

why should women feel empathetic over what is essentially the gender reverse of a "where have all the good men gone" article? men complaining about not having access to sex is like women complaining about not have access to marriage/commitment: its laughable

[–]Shadow_Of_Chad-Lite8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

over what is essentially the gender reverse of a "where have all the good men gone" article?

This isn't men blowing out all of there money on prostitutes getting old and being upset that no one wants them. This is just regular dudes not getting laid due to weird complications.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

no its men being ugly, ungroomed, out of shape with bad haircuts and style, sitting in their musty bedrooms playing video games every day, and then saying "im not getting any sex"

the problem is that regular dudes are gross

[–]Shadow_Of_Chad-Lite4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most dudes go to school/work instead of spending all there time in there room, they also excercise, just because someone isn't jacked doesn't mean they're not inshape seriously, alot of these social outcasts on 4chan are obsessed with being /fit/[A board thats about excercise]. It's not like women do any better most women are just tubby apes.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

were talking about the minority of men who aren't getting sex, not "most dudes"

most women aren't in want of casual sex or have a problem getting it even when they're fat, so thats irrelevant

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater53 points54 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

B-B-But the 47 year old women on Purple Pill Debate told me regular guys aren't worried about sexual harassment charges and everyone is hooking up like normal!

Seriously ask literally any dude in that age range and they'd tell you the same thing, and probably much, much worse in a lot of cases.

[–]Nobodykers15 points16 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Thanks, i feel ashamed that i fear harassment, but at least it's sorta normal.

[–]AndemanMan3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"at least" fuck

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

The best weapon against that fear is not caring. When I'm "on" I've learned to try asking out as many women as I physically can have a conversation with if I have even half an inkling it could work. The best thing for this was about a year ago when I saw one woman point at me in the distance and try to start rumors after she ghosted me. I realized I didn't give a fuck, it didn't actually hurt my chances since I scored a date with someone else like an hour later, and the consequences were real but I simply didn't care.

[–]Nobodykers2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Thats good advice if your mind allows. My mind is my biggest life threat. When i like someone idc what they think, i care about what i think and how i will lay awake fucking myself up when i fail. So is stopped trying and have forsaken all hope.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Seriously ask literally any dude in that age range and they'd tell you the same thing, and probably much, much worse in a lot of cases.

Nope I'm in my 20's and it doesn't even cross my mind to give a shit about being accused of harassment just from chatting up girls lol.

Remember autistic and/or socially anxious men are over-represented massively on PPD.

[–]TheLongerCon14 points15 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The heavy stress that all the students laid on the importance of mutually agreeing the basis of any relationship, at every stage of its development, is probably both a cause and effect of this. Dating apps, which around half the students had used, can mitigate it at best. It is likely a response to increased female empowerment, the major change in sexual politics, and therefore further exacerbated by men’s dread of a #MeToo-style harassment charge. In short, young American men with rather poor interpersonal skills currently face a historically confusing mating-game, eve

I don't think most of these guys are literally scared of a being legally accused of harassment. They're just scared of a girl calling them a creep, or even looking at them like they're a creep when they approach.

And most men definitely can't cold approach. Definitely not the type of guys that get into Northwestern.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think most of these guys are literally scared of a being legally accused of harassment. They're just scared of a girl calling them a creep, or even looking at them like they're a creep when they approach.

Why? They need to grow a backbone. If you are scared of being "looked at like a creep" of course you will not get laid because you're too much of a pussy to approach a woman to begin with.

And most men definitely can't cold approach.

Cold approaching is largely ineffective anyway, but if they're at university and not going to parties, bars, etc to meet girls they're missing their own opportunities and have no one to blame but themselves.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol facts.

[–]passepar2t13 points14 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

The economy is strong.

LOL

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

They always end pessimistic articles on a note like the problem will fix itself. Don't take it too personally. Besides its the economist. What're they going to say the economy's trash?

[–]passepar2t8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Eh, the Economist is not a terrible publication but I've had it up to here with people asserting that teh economy is storng when it's only strong for the top wealthy people, who are steadily depleting the rest of the population.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

It will fix itself

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Depends on your definition of fix. The end of the world as you know it doesn't necessarily mean the Apocalypse.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nope

But it certainly doesn't preclude it

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Things are still breaking down irreparably. Those things are sufficient not necessary conditions you're looking at it from a binary.

[–]Nobodykers23 points24 points  (38 children) | Copy Link

My brother has sex with tons of different girls, he tells them he does this. They dont care. I think this is the default state of humans. Women take turns fucking alphas and then let the beta raise the kid.

And its not that he is hitting them up. They seek him out and want to fuck him or chill with him and behave like slutty stalkers.

[–]binkerfluid8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean this is the default state for most mammals is it not? I dont know why we deny this.

[–]blackkindergods7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because we had and have religion, meta cognitive, and in denial. We’re fucked and chalk full of cognitive fallacies.

I’m a genetic failure. Tough pill for most

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

And how hot is he?

[–]Nobodykers2 points3 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

7-8, could be a model imo.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

Damn, probably lives a completely different life filled with validation. I am truly envious.

[–]Nobodykers10 points11 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Yea, when he goes to a club, girls will dance like strippers in front of him. Every night out he has multiple pickings of who to fuck. All kinds of girls like him, shy, smart, whores, virgins, they all desire him and chat him up irl and online.

The only reason im not envious is because i know his flaws and i like him.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Damn, can make a guy a suicidal.

[–]Nobodykers8 points9 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Yea, just yesterday we were talking about the fact that a lot of guys dont know girls are like this. The girls who choke on his cock will score a date with a shy sucker who tries hard to be witty and confident.

Both him and I are turned off by the idea of dating a woman, ever.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t really care about women hooking up and certainly don’t hate them for it, I just hate the fact I’m not good enough to make them want to hook up with me.

[–]Nobodykers8 points9 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Yea well, they are in a position that allows them to only fuck the hottest males. And they will. There was this shy-ish low SMV-ish girl in one of my friendgroups, and my dumb ass stupid mind thought she was a good fit for me. She fucked my hottest male friend instantly when he texted her over (she barely knew him or talked to him)

Thats a form of pain i dont plan on having ever again. Huge turn off, fuck women. Of course he never talked to her afterwards. I asked him why, and he said he fucks every girl he knows just once. Jup, completely different lives indeed.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah it sucks. I just want to be hot.

[–]alilabelle 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

:)

[–]mylittlemagic2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm curious why you used the phrase she scored. What did she gain from a date with a low quality man

[–]Nobodykers0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

What did she gain by being fucked and tossed asside like a whore?

[–]mylittlemagic2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The tingles. I can understand why a woman would be attracted to chad and find motivation/justification to sleep with him. I don't know what she can gain from giving a beta a chance

[–]alilabelle 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

It felt good.

[–]blackkindergods1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is what men need to hear.

Your oneitis was sucking a dude off who couldn’t stand her. And your feelings of being ripped off are valid. Ripped off by life itself.

[–]Nobodykers0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your oneitis might have, yes. He himself is turned off by the idea of seriously dating a woman because he sees what they are like when a guy is attractive enough.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

7-8 is not model material lol

[–]Nobodykers0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He has been asked to model lol.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Tell us more about his circumstances. Does he play sports. Is he the local weed plug?

[–]Nobodykers2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

He plays sports, and he is known for it. So if you are looking for things about him that boost his SMV they are there. Its status, charisma, confidence, good body and 0 fucks mentality. It definitely gives a boost. However, i have another friend who has very comparable facial features. The guy has non of that going on in those amounts, but still has so many girls longing after his dick that he, by his own saying, doesnt fuck a girl more than once.

I have yet another friend, who doesnt have their exaggerated facial features, but good features nonetheless and good length. He gets dozens of tinder matches who are down to fuck.

The common dominator is face. 90% of males would get laid with a top 20% face. Girls arent shy, girls are scanning for mates all the time. They just dont want 80% of us.

But yea, i know 1 or 2 guys who are sorta ugly compared to the other guys i talked about(still manly face mind you), and they arent virgins, so it's not 100% face, but face can do 90% of the work is what i mean.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No. There's more to it than that. I promise.

[–]blackkindergods0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Barely

You’re like a rich person peddling meritocracy as a path to wealth.

There’s more to it AFTER face

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol..

[–]Futureman999 1 points [recovered]  (15 children) | Copy Link

It seems like men having sex (if they have any sex at all) with women far below their "looks match" is the norm now. Examples: Fit men with overweight women. Young men with middle aged women.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the best advice I ever got for OLD was that it's the place where 7's go to fuck 3's.

[–]we-are-men-with-ven6 points7 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Young men with middle aged women.

https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2018-year-in-review

MILF is the third most searched for term on porn hub. step mom is fourth and mom is sixth. I tihnk a lot of men are just genuinely attracted to older ladies.

[–]Futureman999 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm skeptical porn searches are a good metric for attraction. When "mature" is several notches higher than "teen" but we know men report preference for young women at all ages it might be a fetish like "amputee" or "BBW".

[–]we-are-men-with-ven2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Its most probably a fetish, and that's my point. I'm pointing out that those men you speak of are dating older women because its what they find hot, and not 'punching bellow their weight' so to speak.

I don't think its necessarily a looks thing either. Some of these men like the sexual experience that they bring to the table, and the fact they have more life experience in general.

[–]Futureman999 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

dating older women because its what they find hot,

not 'punching bellow their weight'

That violates Occam's Razor. It's the long way 'round explanation. I believe that women want to believe men are more attracted to them as they get older, so they would like to believe porn searches = dating preferences in real life. But it just ain't so. Sometimes you just want to look at some weird shit.

Example: Note how high "transgender" is on this list. 99% of straight men who have wanked to she-male porn would never hook up with one in real life. MtF's complain about it on YouTube.

Simplest explanation is 40+ rejects you less on Tinder. 22 years old may be hot AF, but success rate for most guys is very low because they're so popular for IRL dating/hookups.

Some of these men like the sexual experience that they bring to the table, and the fact they have more life experience in general.

I'm going to confess my personal prejudice here. I've dated from (legal) teenagers to early fifties, and the only thing I liked about the middle aged ladies was they were easier to talk to. There was nothing particularly sexy about some mythical "confidence" or "experience" they brought to the table. Any idiot can suck a dick. My favorite age for IRL dating was always early to mid-twenties. Mature enough to hold a conversation but still sexy. For porn give me 18 year olds.

But that's just me. I don't need a mommy or a boss in the bedroom. I don't care how "confident" she supposedly is about her stretch marks and cellulite. Honestly it would put me off if she's a rather saggy older person who thinks she's red hot.

[–]we-are-men-with-ven0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Any idiot can suck a dick.

Nah, sex is a skill and you can hone that skill through experience. You might not care, but for me and thousands of others, sexual experience is imperative for a partner.

There was nothing particularly sexy about some mythical "confidence" or "experience" they brought to the table.

That might be your opinion, but for innumerable men experience and confidence are very sexually alluring traits (for women as well).

Example: Note how high "transgender" is on this list. 99% of straight men who have wanked to she-male porn would never hook up with one in real life.

There's a plethora of complicated reasons why this phenomena exists, but that's a whole other discussion..

the only thing I liked about the middle aged ladies was they were easier to talk to.

That might be 'just one thing' to you, but for lots of people its hugely important. I would say it would boost your sexual desirability quite significantly.

[–]ffbtawPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

MILF in porn is code for 26 year-old 'post-wall' women.

[–]we-are-men-with-ven0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

bollocks. I've just searched for it on pornhub and they're all 40+. Furthermore the recommended porn stars are that age range.

Oh and the wall doesn't exist, that's just revenge fantasy.

[–]Ithinkthatsthepoint0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men are attracted to what’s easy

[–]we-are-men-with-ven0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

watching younger women in porn is easy, yet lots would rather watch older ones.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yea, never going to do that. Ill just die alone. I'm not going to invest my time in bad options. Used to be that an average girl was who your grandpa was dating. He would walk her 5 miles to her job at McDonald's for courtship. They were both broke but it didn't matter too much. She was pretty & modest.

Now an average girls profoundly out of reach for guys their age & dating men significantly richer & older than her peers & having legions of men at her command from the touch of her phone.

Times sure are a changing.

[–]DXBrigade0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Unless he has money, young average women are far above the league of the granpa.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seems like it worked out for them fine considering we're all here.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

for the purposes of casual sex that was always normal

[–]DREADC0RSAIRNo Pill | Just Dead Inside7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Go on YouTube and look up, Dating and Dating culture videos. Scroll down to the comments and just take a look at what men have to say about the culture. You'll see why they are checking out.

[–]xeroedouttwice4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I appreciate the post about this article and the comments, it helps me find the correct words to describe my own struggles in this area and in turn be a little closer to finding a solution.

[–]KazROFL14 points15 points  (35 children) | Copy Link

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater22 points23 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

...not really?

I mean in my experience a lot of truly awkward people who mostly never had a shot still just go for it because they don't know how to read a room. Likewise the guys who are planning a rape or kidnapping don't really give a fuck. The guys who've stopped are mostly guys who aren't super attractive and aren't super smooth but aren't rock bottom. Because now they have to deal with Tinder where every girl who's a 4 or above thinks they can land an 8 because 6's swipe on them.

Women are going to get creeped on because creeps by definition don't care about social convention.

[–]oneprettycoolcat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are going to get creeped on because "creepiness" is completely subjective to the woman and whether she finds the man sexually attractive.

[–]80_20SCIENCE / non-incel incel advocate / NO PILL17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

this is what the result of "just work harder" rhetoric we feed to men these days.

[–]says_harsh_thingsRed Pill - Chad1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because a lot of people along the way benefit from men working harder for sex. The last girl left holding the short straw has to deal with the guy when he gets pissed.

[–]BothWaysItGoesLibertarian13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The destruction of traditional paths to mating, confused mixed values on what constitutes proper courtship display, the rise of proportion of the population excluded from the sexual economy; all of these breed anti-social sexual behavior.

[–]Zippo-Cat17 points18 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Not as long as monogamy persists. Because monogamy means that for every single man there is a single woman.

Once we get rid of these obsolete ideas though... the world will be heaven on earth for 20% of men and 80% of women

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I mean we kind of are. The only difference is people more and more want to be casual and explore and expect it'll all just kind of line up for them when they get tired of it.

[–]Futureman999 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Anybody else notice women are complaining more and more loudly about every little thing in their work environment? That's the flipside of lower 80% tier men being mostly celibate.

In their mothers' and grandmothers' day women may have worked, but probably not continuously their whole adult lives. They could come and go from the workplace when they had young children, or any time really when their husbands were earning plenty of money. Maybe dabble at work part-time. That's pretty much over because chad and tyrone simply don't have the money to support all the women they fuck. Now everybody works.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They could come and go from the workplace when they had young children, or any time really when their husbands were earning plenty of money.

Only if they were rich. Average women without rich husbands had to work full-time as they do now.

[–]Ziczor 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

It would only happen if top 20% of men could handle the masses of raging, sex deprived 80%ers. Imagine a world conflict over a pussy, lol. Chads vs incels.

[–]BothWaysItGoesLibertarian15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You just have to explain to them that there are seventy-two virgins waiting for them after their death.

[–]says_harsh_thingsRed Pill - Chad6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

They can, because women's sex drive is lower. There is plenty in the 20% to go around

[–]Kujab2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think he is implying some societal crisis, like an incel uprising.

[–]says_harsh_thingsRed Pill - Chad1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay I see that now that I go back and reread it. Yeah I dont think the incels are going to rise up.

[–]Zippo-Cat3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

handle the masses of raging, sex deprived 80%ers

Bottom 80% takes care of itself with videogames, anime and porn

[–]The3liGator7 points8 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Nah, holmes. Creeps are still going to creep, normal people are just getting scared.

Plus, the issie with that post is she fails to realize that she proved she has it better than men. Men aren't taught to protect themselves which makes them more likely to become victims.

When girls talk about a creep following them around, they go to the police and they would start an investigation. When guys do the same, they get a "damn, that sucks."

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Creeps are still going to creep

Yet somehow most men seen as creeps just happen to also be ugly...

[–]The3liGator12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That's my point. Creeps are still creepy, but #metoo (while it did plenty of good) made ugly men bearers of the punishment that was meant for creeps.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

https://splinternews.com/homely-men-judged-more-harshly-than-hot-men-instantly-1793848040

Is it that ugly men tend to be more creepy or have women just evolved to try and avoid ugly men in general?

Essentially, as the researchers explain, this means unattractive men won't necessarily be judged on their looks until they mess up or violate social norms, in which case they will be judged even more harshly.

For example, if a man is on trial for a crime and happens to be unattractive, his character will be judged more harshly by a jury than that of an attractive man.

For all the articles saying that #metoo is not about unattractive or homely men, they are those most often accused.

Sure, hot men often don't need to explicitly ask to have a minor fantasy or fetish fulfilled, and that's a big bonus in terms of #metoo as the women feel it was all consensual and organic.

And yeah as a guy I've only been sexually targeted 3 times (2 times by men as a child, 1 time by a woman as a teen) but I've been violently attacked far more often than women are.

[–]amendment641 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Good contribution to the discussion, this seems to be the crux of the issue. I would imagine the same holds true for homely women too. We trust good looking people intrinsically, though they have done nothing to earn it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It does but homely women are still less harshly judged than homely men. And often less harshly judged than attractive men.

Women have to generally commit very heinous crimes (such as killing her own children) to be judged on the same level as a man.

[–]allweknowisD7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

when girls talk about a crepe following them around, they go to the police and they start an investigation

I think women would like a word with you.

Especially the women that have all died from stalkers and the police done nothing.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

a crepe following them around

I'd think that's pretty impressive. A walking crepe!

[–]The3liGator5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

There are systemic issues, no doubt. Mostly to do with police incompetence/laziness. The two issues I'm highlighting are:

1-Culturally, there is desire to make women safe. Not the case for men.

2-The assumption (that you just made) that women are the main victims of such crimes.

[–]allweknowisD2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Where did I state or assume anywhere that women were the main victims of such crimes?

However, most statistics do show a higher percentage of women being a victim of stalking (if that’s what we’re discussing).

Stalking crimes aren’t taken seriously in general. It’s nowhere near as simple as just reporting it and an investigation being started. For both men or women

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

There are systemic issues, no doubt.

No. They aren't. That is nothing less than responsibility avoidance cranked up over 9,000. The fact is, in most jurisdictions, a woman can report "stalking" to the police and the police will very likely do something, up to and including getting a restraining order. This isn't a rape claim, either, so she likely won't even have to present evidence for it. Are there some instances where police didn't take someone seriously where they should have? Yes, and these are examples of deviation from the norm, not adherence to it.

[–]The3liGator0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

> That is nothing less than responsibility avoidance cranked up over 9,000

That's sounds exactly like what every privileged group has told those that struggled in every period of history ever.

> The fact is, in most jurisdictions, a woman can report "stalking" to the police and the police will very likely do something, up to and including getting a restraining order.

Not the case for men.

None of what you said addresses my two claims though.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's sounds exactly like what every privileged group has told those that struggled in every period of history ever.

That sounds exactly like what every group desperate to be free from any and all accountability forever has told those telling them to fuck off and mind their own business in the most recent parts of history.

Not the case for men.

Correct, police would deprioritize the shit out of that phone call, if it came from a man.

None of what you said addresses my two claims though.

I don't disagree with your two claims.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit the neuroticism in that thread 🤪

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rape hysteria culture

[–]AndemanMan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Now I'm not going to be 'that guy', but I'm just saying, there's nothing wrong with noticing the race of these 'perverts'.

[–]Nobodykers0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

'undateable guys' are not the bulk of predatory guys. Rapists and immoral men do fine with women.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me16 points17 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

“Revealing that your intention in talking to someone is sexual? That’s hairy,” shuddered one man.

Louder. For all the women out there who think we're all Neanderthals yelling I JUST WAN TO MAKE SOME FUCK BERZERKER from their lifted pickup trucks.

that America would soon see a spike in celibacy fuelled by economics, technology, female empowerment

This, the most important part of the whole affair, the dude just glosses over as if it's nothing. Women don't like or want sex - so when they're empowered it ends.

Meanwhile, they might try putting down their phones, talking face to face a bit more, and even flirting.

And end up in court? Fuck off.

[–]jonascf4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women don't like or want sex

What kind of weird women do you hang out with?

[–]Jasontheperson2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He doesn't, he's MGTOW.

[–]Jasontheperson0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women want sex, what are you going on about?

[–]mydikishomofobik9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If this is true, it means that there is going to be a massive tsunami of "whereareallthegoodmengone" women in the coming decades.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

More like a massive tsunami of “where have all the good taxpayers gone” from government

[–]mydikishomofobik5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pork eh no los dos? But, yeah, single men with few prospects of finding a decent partner have less incentive to make lots of money, pay taxes and consume. In many cases it's never-satisfied wives that drive men to work harder, make more money, and buy lots of crap. If all these guys are single, they only need enough money to buy videogames, porn, and whatever else they like.

[–]blackkindergods3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Five years

[–]five_eight4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

80/20

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Overweight/normal weight.

[–]passepar2t6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not just a young man problem.

[–]darkmoon0913 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's mostly a young man problem.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

First rule of PPD: Your problems are your problems. My problems are our problems.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Young Americans are less religious and more relaxed about sexual orientation than they have ever been.

Russians are very unrelaxed (on paper) about sexual orientation and yet women here are not less willing to ride the CC. I am not sure there is any connection at all.

Many considered the prospect of chatting someone up in a bar not merely daunting but possibly offensive. “Revealing that your intention in talking to someone is sexual? That’s hairy,” shuddered one man.

Like their concerns are not substantiated. I know, western women accuse men in harassment just for staring at them, yes? "A woman is always right" is embraced by laws.

[–]ScootsScoots 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Men typically were financially superior to women in the past. Since women have been in the workforce for awhile now, things have happened. Men are no longer financially superior because wages have stagnated or dropped due to the doubling of the workforce. Combine that with an economy struggling to deal with a myriad of factors like automation and manufacturing leaving and it's a 1 2 punch.

Women have always fucked up. Nowadays, due to the above many men are across or down. Of course theres other ways to be up but many men are incapable of this. Not smart enough. Not socially astute enough. Etc.

Truth is a very large percentage of men were born to be providers and that roll is no longer available to them. It's too hard for them to compete so they dont.

Women are still fucking up. Theres just a lot less "up" to go around.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

Women, while young, mostly want to fuck the badboy-fratbro or the local drug dealer. Those who can't would rather stay "celibate" than hook up with a nerd or a "square".

Exceptions exist, but they're just that.

And once women age they expect Alpha bux, settle for Beta bux and finally resent the poor beta.

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

Or youre too stupid to find the slutty librarian that loves intelligent book smart men.

How about you evolve? You arent gonna find every woman in the same place

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

slutty librarian that loves intelligent book smart men.

Sure, as long as they are like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietro_Boselli

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lots of women date down in looks if the man stimulates them in other ways.

Boring idiots need not apply. What are trpers like again? :p

[–]angels_fan_rp2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is such a lie!!

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They have to keep the hope fire alive, yo

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Why do blue pill fools push this idiocy that "like attracts like"?

For starters, everyone with half a brain knows personality means shit as far as sexual attraction is concerned, compared to traits such as physical attractiveness and sociosexuality (in other words, looks & game). Which means your "slutty librarian" unicorn will only give a fuck about the "intelligent book smart man" if he's hot

And even in your hypothetical Disney fantasy world where hypergamy doesn't exist, this argument still would be mathematically unsustainable because the number of nerdy men is insanely higher than nerdy women, due to how gender differences work. Even if you forced every nerdy girl to pair up with a nerdy boy, there would be millions of nerdy boys left to celibacy

For the record, despite being a nerd myself, I find "nerdy girls" disgusting and only date attractive highly extroverted girls. And the reason I attract them isn't some vague BS like "personality", but because I am ripped and know how to engage them sexually. Of course, my ENFP gf says she "loves me for my intellect", but if I swapped brains and became an ugly weakling, she'd leave me in a heartbeat

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Its weird you talk about blue pill when im more red than you or most rp here.

But get angry at the truth. You just dont have game if you cant fuck the nerds girls. It takes finesse

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol I've fucked nerdy girls before. It doesn't take "finesse", it just takes being hot and/or having game

Also they aren't nearly as enthusiastic or fun as the non-nerds. And though they think they're smart, they believe in nonsensical ideas such as feminism, and when I've debated them on it, they always resort to fallacies

Overall I don't see the appeal

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And though they think they're smart, they believe in nonsensical ideas such as feminism, and when I've debated them on it, they always resort to fallacies

Educated doesnt mean intelligent

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is a correlation, but yeah. Modern edjukayshon doesn't teach you critical thinking/logical reasoning/etc, it only indoctrinates you with leftist propaganda and useless facts

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My bro used to work in an office that was bsing leased by the library apparently alnost evey woman therr was married andnhad kids before they were 25 .

[–]boomcheese440 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

badboy-fratbro or the local drug dealer.

You guys love this narrative. Alpha is just a good looking guy. And there are not plenty of them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

No, of course there are good looking, wholesome good guys. and they don't go without pussy. But the good looking badboys absolutely dominate them.

If two guys look equally good, the asshole is the one who will fuck more women, and hotter women.

It's not a "narrative": women, especially young ones, LOVE asshole fuckboys.

[–]boomcheese440 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I don't know if they dominate, but if they do its with young stupid girls controlled by their hormones. We grow out of it. Every person is basically an idiot until 30 or so when they see reality for what it is.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Every person is basically an idiot until 30 or so when they see reality for what it is.

Ah, the "epiphany phase" when many a woman's SMV takes its first dive. So women decide that, to get a man to commit they will refuse most forms of intimacy... to test him.

Unless he's a mature Chad of course, in which case panties will drop on the second date instead of the first.

Honestly, as a "loser" man dating is just not worth it anymore.

Having to lower your standards, meeting women you have nothing in common with AND you don't find them physically attractive?

Only to pretend you have a thing for them and put on a dog and pony show, all for what?

The endgame of a LTR / marriage to a woman you're not attracted to, who actually hates you for being the best option she had all while being her beta bucks? Maybe even fathering some drunken Chad's kids who will scream "You're not my real dad!" at you?

Yeah, no, f**k that.

[–]boomcheese440 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Most people partner up and marry late-20s. Shes not a shriveled up hag by then. In fact, those real late bloomers you guys moan about are a small section of women. Why you guys love focusing on them is...something else.

Do you guys like thinking about the worst scenarios ever? What guy pursues a woman he is NOT attracted to? I mean, what would be the benefit really? Unless you view attraction by age.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

In fact, those real late bloomers you guys moan about are a small section of women.

Yeah but we're not talking about them here. Just go on PoF, OKCupid and your local paper's personals to see who I'm talking about.
Better yet, browse a few women's blogs & magazines.

I assure you there are many women out there who used to be on all fours on the second date in their 20s, but as soon as they reach their 30s still single they won't hold hands until the fourth date. Unless, of course, the guy is a successful Chad.

Whom else should we focus on? Women who (for various reasons) aren't able to function? Women with Down's syndrome?

Are the bottom 50-60% of men supposed to be relegated to the women nobody else wants to (or can) date?
Or is it like that old joke "Tall girls are for tall guys, short girls are also for tall guys, short guys can have eachother"?

What guy pursues a woman he is NOT attracted to? I mean, what would be the benefit really?

Lots of guys settle for women they're not attracted to because, to them, it's better than being alone.

Unless you view attraction by age.

Not really, once you get older sex stops being a big priority for both sexes. Sure I knew people who still had sex in their 60s, but it's something that happened just a few times a year.

[–]boomcheese440 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Focus on the very real population of women that somehow broke off a serious relationship in their late 20s and found themselves single again? I know a lot of women like this. Less than 5 sexual partners, but a relationship just didn't work out. You guys love thinking about what you don't want and cast a wide net of suspicion of any woman that isn't settled down by 25. Life is a bit more complex.

Yes, women wan't Chad, but a lot will be happy for a Chad-lite. Be a Chad-lite and have more options is all I can tell you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just be in the top 30% of men bro.

Most eastern european men can never be chadlite because of their facial bones, same for most asian men and indian men.

Going to the gym won't turn a man into an Anglo-Saxon, a Germanic, a Latino or a Greek.

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato15 points16 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

Smart men. The best way to shut down feminist bullshit and not get Metoo'd is to not engage. Hope the "empowered wahman" like their power, because a lot of smart men are GTOW.

[–]allweknowisD17 points18 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I mean... all I see in this thread is men talking about how much this sucks and that men need sex.

Seems men aren’t really okay with GTOW after all

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The ones that truly GTOW don't talk much.

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

See being a hermit like in the movie into the wild is a different thing

Mgtow is just a bunch of unloved losers who gave up. Saddest part being they only talk about women and have convinced themselves they are doing it by choice LOL

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No you van still complain. You just don't like to hear it.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't think GTOW is a thing. Beyond biological and genetic curiosities, I don't think most men can possibly do it. Their firmware won't let them.

"Going Their Own Way" is a male revenge fantasy that is just hilarious. Honest justice would be seeing women wake up one day in a male body, truly understanding the male experience. No doubt the retort is "well if MEN understood the female experience we'd feel the same!"

The only difference is, at least SOME men actually already give a shit about the female experience. Lots of them identify as feminists, and even more of them DO actually give a shit about women. The reverse isn't the case, unless a woman happens to have the misfortune of giving birth to a son.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It can be done, it just requires a more holistic full scale detachment from your humanity rather than merely being upset at women. Men who truly devote themselves to an ideal or artistic pursuit or field of study are able to achieve it. They have a positive goal to distract them from lack of pussy, in effect sublimating the sexual, creative impulse.

If you are angry at the pussy you are still under its sway. Just in a different way. Completely forgetting the pussy exists is GYOW.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, call me a shitty biotroofer, but I tend to think that the firmware encoded in male genes that make us want pussy precludes the vast majority of men from achieving that kind of waking mastery. That's what I mean when I say that it largely can't be done by your average male human, who I would argue deserves a life with the experiences it offers.

They don't have to have a 150-foot luxury yacht to enjoy existence, but Jesus Christ, a fuck here and there doesn't seem like an absurdly tall order.

[–]toysjoeMGTOW11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I hav zero problems with the female portion of this. My problem is with the betas who are gonna be the safety net for these alpha widows.

You wanna go all in on Chad? Fine but deal with the consequences.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This would mean 2/3 of children born over the next 20 years would starve to death. 👌🏻 with me

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn right. Darwinism working as it should.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Seems men aren’t really okay with GTOW after all

No shit. That they're still doing it means something.

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It means theyre weak willed

[–]firewatchersdaughter1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

MGTOW is the Nash equilibrium when relationships become a zero-sum game, which in my opinion is exactly what we have.

[–]Zippo-Cat5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It would truly take an MSTOW to believe that a bunch of unattractive men removing themselves from the dating market somethow inconveniences women.

[–]Nobodykers5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ikr, its cringy AF. I dont seek to date women, but calling oneself MGTOW is a sad fucking revenge cope. Just do what you want and STFU

[–]blackkindergods0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

😂

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Oh no more pussy for the remaining men! Whatever will we do!

You guys are clowns

[–]BirdManBrrrr3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Guaranteed those guys are thirsty AF and would jump through a ton of hoops for some 6/10 to give them attention, considering they're currently invisible to women altogether.

Very little of their situation is voluntarily checking out of the SMP.

[–]moroots2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

social media and dating apps have granted women wider and more covert access to top tier men than ever before

with the stigma of being a slut shuttered by the privacy of a cell phone and the effort required to interact w men reduced from getting dressed up (and we know how long and how much effort women put into their appearance) to a thumb tap on an app icon, is it any wonder that the inequality in the SMP is increasing?

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

In nature you find dualism everywhere... day and night. Left and right brain. Male and female. Fire and water. Tupac and Biggie. Red pill and blue pill. Where one aspect advances, the other retreats. Just as one force reaches its peak, its waning begins, and its opposite begins to wax.

Traditionally, the masculine has always pursued the feminine with dogged determination, and the feminine has seduced and led the masculine on a merry chase. This is interplay; flow. Perpetuation of the cycle. Men have always sought to woo, claim, win over, conquer, subjugate, possess, and steal away women. Women have always beckoned, seduced, lured, deceived, run away from, rejected, or been caught by, men. Over and over in an endless loop.

But then... everything changed when the feminist nation attacked.

Now women want to dwell in the masculine. They want to have careers, respectability, status, influence... power. They want to be the equals of men. To adopt the role that man carefully constructed for himself over thousands of years of civilization. But this doesn't work. Women can't be men, in the end. They can't approach and pursue like men. They can't be providers and leaders like men - not without resenting men they provide for/lead. Deep down at their core, women still want to be passive sexual selectors, not masculine sexual pursuers. This will never change, yet so much of society is geared towards erasure of the "toxic" masculine behavior that enables women to be how they are.

Feminists rant about the sexual aggression of men, but the simple fact is that women cannot be passive and selective unless men are aggressive and risk taking. Without the engine of male sexuality driving gender relations, no real relations occur, and the species dies out. This is already happening in Japan, Russia, much of northern europe. A uni-gender society is a dead society. Flat, lifeless - no interplay, no dynamism, no opposites attracting and repulsing and chasing each other.

Western society has gone too far with its unnatural utopian project of making everyone the same, instead of allowing natural differences between the genders to flow and interact with each other. Women have no true interest in shouldering the burden and risk of pursuit. Men are not true men when they cannot express their innate sexual aggression. A lion in the wilderness roaring its primal, unmitigated desire to take carnal possession of the females in its vicinity. That is male nature. Yang to woman's Yin.

[–]cattermelon34ADHD medication is a feminist conspiracy9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

😂 This is the most ridiculous, faux- philosophical rambling I've ever seen.

Women want to be able to do what men have been able to do for centuries. Have choices. Now that they don't have to rely on men solely men are upset they don't hold all the power any more.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For centuries?

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women want to be able to do what men have been able to do for centuries. Have choices.

Women who are alive today largely never experienced any of that past. And, they egregiously misrepresent what actually occurred.

Now that they don't have to rely on men solely men are upset they don't hold all the power any more.

And they egregiously misrepresent what men are like and how they feel, shocker.

[–]RhoubbheIt all ends in fire0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women want to be able to do what men have been able to do for centuries. Have choices.

That is complete nonsense. Most of your male ancestors lived short and shitty lives of backbreaking drudgery or brutal violence.

A majority of men lacked 'choices' as they toiled for some lord like a mule. Most men were 'privileged' if they had food for winter, didn't get killed in war, not die of plague, not lose their wife in childbirth, and most of the children survived to adulthood.

The truth is 99% of men and women never had much privilege. They were lucky to make to age 31.

Your statement is an apex fallacy. You assumed that all men in history were privileged and that is simply not true.

[–]Zippo-Cat5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What a load of new age bullshit.

[–]Shadow_Of_Chad-Lite2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women already aren't held accountable for there actions and already get special treatment. When they get "equal rights" they now have complete superiority over men.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s absolutely true - and it’s never been better to be a top male with a backbone. The guys these articles describe are usually middle class white males who have been told they are the problem for everything in society their entire life so they put themselves in a cringeworthy role of going out of their way to not offend anyone.

These are the guys that ask permission to kiss someone. That think wearing an indian costume on Halloween is some grave racist offense. That bring up gender and skin color whenever they can or support feminism just for a pat on the head

They are pathetic, and they still don’t get sex. If you’re a man with a strong opinion and the masculinity to back it up you will have your pick of women

[–]analt223No Pill4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The problem is men are only liked if they go out in the world and kick ass. But thats also "da evil patriarchy!"

Feminism is the problem. Its hypocritical

[–]matrixpush1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most RP won't admit this, but it was actually better for most men during the liberal Obama days.

Since FOSTA, there has been a change that never gets mentioned. It's obviously controversial since it says that with "available escorts" the overall SMP becomes easier for most men.

Also, before, women could anonymous browse for hookups without having to sign up for anything just via replying to ads. This has had an effect. "R4R" even in big cities has nowhere near the traffic Craigslist did.

It's of absolutely no surprise these type of articles only refer to the US.

[–]Braziliancel 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Most RP won't admit this, but it was actually better for most men during the liberal Obama days.

The rise in men's sexlessness started during the "liberal Obama days".

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent article, thanks for sharing !

[–]angels_fan_rp5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

In other words, we have an entire generation of autists who have no fucking clue how to approach or talk to women.

If your approach is "ur cute. Hav sum fuk?" then you're an idiot.

Approach, read cues, chat her up, let it progress naturally. Who "let's show it's their intention that it's sexual"?? That should all be subtext. If you're saying that, you've lost.

We also have an entire generation of entitled women who think that their comfort is paramount above all else and that infringing on that comfort is tantamount to sexual assault.

If men hear day after day after day how women are incessantly approached and cat called, and how women hate every single one of those, of course men are going to stop approaching.

The funny thing is that women only see it as an approach or cat call when it's an ugly man. A hot guy is put into a whole other bucket of "he was just being friendly". Hamsters... What ya gonna do?

Women created this mess, but it serves women, so there's no hurry to fix it anytime soon.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course women are the ones who get burned in the end. The hot "friendly" dudes can pump 'n dump and run off and leave you with a dependent. The worst that happens to a dude is he gets to be alone.

[–]cattermelon34ADHD medication is a feminist conspiracy3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

So basically:

"Women used to have to sleep with men anymore for economic and social reasons so the shitty, left over men are sad."

[–]binkerfluid5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

wait until the women hit 40 and we will see who is "shitty and leftover"

[–]boomcheese444 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Even a saggy tit 40 year old women is more desire-able than left-over men. Men will always want us more than the other way around.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Video games reward you for hard work, women don't.

It's really that simple.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

Lol, you get an animation at the end, or maybe a video. Such a reward!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol, you get an animation at the end, or maybe a video. Such a reward!

Right, you actually get something at the end for your time and effort.

With women, your time and money is wasted.

LOL.

Fucking Grampa here with one foot in his grave already

[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete1 point2 points  (33 children) | Copy Link

Since 2008 there has been almost a threefold rise in the share of men under the age of 30 who claim to be having no sex

Which corresponds to the subprime and attached economical and financial crisis. Many men lost their providing capacity or saw it reduced to thresholds making them appear as less attractive.

This is painful

Why is that? is it a pro-breeding stance?

they might re-embrace the degree of ambiguity and risk that romance entails. That is the hope, at least

What for? And hope for what? Why is the sex recession a bad thing again?

[–]Zippo-Cat2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Which corresponds to the subprime and attached economical and financial crisis.

Yes, the lower the GDP the more kids people have but let's blame the "financial crisis"(which doesn't even exist by the way)

[–]analt223No Pill2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It has very little to do with the recession. 20 somethings have always been broke, not just 08. Its the internet.

[–]RoyalAugur924 points5 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

What for? And hope for what? Why is the sex recession a bad thing again?

Because men need sex and if they don't get enough of it to at least keep chugging along, their brains start to go haywire.

[–]J_Milton_JrDon't open 'til doomsday...♥7 points8 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

most men complaining about not getting sex arent complaining about not getting sex (cause hookers are available almost everywhere, even where they are illegal, men with money can easily get sex, but they dont want to pay for it, why dont they want to pay for it? beause its not about sex, its about validation), they complain about not getting the validation they want...

[–]RoyalAugur926 points7 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Male validation is tied to sex. It's not something a woman could understand.

[–]J_Milton_JrDon't open 'til doomsday...♥5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

lol are you kidding? XD

you do know how hard it is for most women to orgasm, its even harder to orgasm with a guy you only slept once...what do you think is the reason women hook up with random dudes (chads) if not validation? XD

men who hook up with alot of women often dont judge women who do the same, its the low n-count men who despise women with a high n-count because they simply are jealous...why dont all these underfucked men visit brothels?

i live in a country where prostitution is legal and even here many men wont do it, even if they are really desperate...why? Because its not about putting your dick into a vagina but having the feeling that you earnd it

[–]OfSpock2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

having the feeling that you earnd it

Without actually doing the things necessary to earn it.

[–]J_Milton_JrDon't open 'til doomsday...♥1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

well, most young women want to feel desirable and sexy! Being desired by a couple of dudes is EXACTLY that

[–]RoyalAugur920 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes xD. Most xD women xD are xD asexual xD, these xD are xD things xD we xD know xD.

[–]Plopolok4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

why dont they want to pay for it? beause its not about sex, its about validation

It's hard to know for sure. Prostitution is not only legally forbidden but also socially disapproved: if people know you have paid a hooker, you become even more undatable. And it's expensive. All these reasons could also explain why men don't use it much, but since they're much less socially correct to express than "lack of love/validation", you won't hear them much.

[–]yocrappacrappa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Would you say that's a bad thing?

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater8 points9 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

This is untrue. Men need sex to keep them plugged in.

A dude who has no hope of getting laid suddenly has less of a reason to buy expensive status objects and a multi bedroom living space and go out to eat and a million other things. Because a guy with no partner, and no dependents, can have a comfortable lifestyle on a fraction what either a family man or even a single man trying to attract a mate spend.

[–]says_harsh_thingsRed Pill - Chad4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Every guy I know that has given up on women has a very meager house or apartment, but REALLY nice fishing boats.

[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That does not answer why this is a bad thing. Society makes a point to get rid of men whose brains start to go haywire anyway, nothing new.

[–]RoyalAugur920 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What if there are more of them than society can handle?

[–]EsauTheRed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then the society is toppled, they become the new tops, and a new underclass of men emerges from the spawn of the losers

[–]HereWeGoAgainTJ1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most of them are afraid of getting metoo'd. Sad, but a lot don't see themselves getting married or getting into a LTR. We're hitting peak equality.

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[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

It's like Brave New World has won out, cuz like, we you got the media shoving so much crap in our faces (social media, gaming, porn, etc) and you got guys eating it up and lazing around in front of screens too scared to live life.

https://i.imgur.com/CdmlLKQ.jpg

[–]geyges🐇4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

we you got the media shoving so much crap in our faces

Have you read your own little meme? Media is not shoving crap in our faces. We shove crap in our faces, and media merely provides the crap that we desire.

you got guys eating it up and lazing around in front of screens too scared to live life.

You really giving too much credit to human spirit and free will here, and not enough credit to neuroscience, marketing, and business that keeps us addicted to our screens. Not for any obviously nefarious control purposes, but due to the combination of economic realities and technological progress.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Media is not shoving crap in our faces. We shove crap in our faces, and media merely provides the crap that we desire.

You really giving too much credit to human spirit and free will here, and not enough credit to neuroscience, marketing, and business that keeps us addicted to our screens.

Aren't you just contradicting yourself here? First you say the media is not shoving anything in our faces, we choose to watch the media because it caters to our desires.

Then you say we have no free will because businesses keep us addicted to screens.

Make up your mind...

[–]geyges🐇0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Aren't you just contradicting yourself here?

It sure reads that way, I take your point that I should be more clear with what I'm saying.

The larger point, is my last sentence. That we as humans do this to ourselves. The media/the business are just manifestations of our own endless desire for distractions that end up becoming a part of the reinforcing loop that keep us addicted.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yep you're not wrong but that doesn't really contradict what I said either. I am not saying there is some big conspiracy. The comic thing I linked describes it better than I can and it quotes Huxley saying that humans have an infinite desire for distractions. So my original comment is in agreement with you my man.

If you take an average human and give them an easy choice or a difficult choice most will choose the easy one.

[–]geyges🐇0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So my original comment is in agreement with you my man.

THEN WHO THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO ARGUE WITH.

If you take an average human and give them an easy choice or a difficult choice most will choose the easy one.

Seriously, I think our primary disagreement is right there. I suspect that we have less choice than we think we do. Our environment, genes, and other biological processes control a lot more of our behavior than our rational thought.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

THEN WHO THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO ARGUE WITH.

😂

Seriously, I think our primary disagreement is right there. I suspect that we have less choice than we think we do. Our environment, genes, and other biological processes control a lot more of our behavior than our rational thought.

I think you are partially right. We act as we do partly because of genetics and partly because of upbringing. But I think upbringing has a bigger impact. And then who we are as adults comes from how we react to our upbringing.

But even if we for the sake of argument agree that are personalities are fixed to a degree, what we decide to actually do with our lives is still within our control.

I can decide not to go into work today, I can decide to quit next week, I can decide to move to another country and live in a forest.

We tend to get comfortable in our routines, but all this is within our control if we decide to take action and change it. No one is trapped, they're merely in a comfort zone.

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah they should give all that up and read fiction. Their lives will improve

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They should just get the fuck off all social media.

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Tbh I have beef with the "its cuz guys just sit in front of screens and dont go outside!" meme, because me and I'd say the larger majority of my under-30 paragliding crew are all outdoorsy adventure faegs but are the exact guys the article talks about who basically never have sex or date girls

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well are their chosen hobbies male dominated? If so they can hardly expect to meet girls through them.

[–]RhoubbheIt all ends in fire0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The 'Brave New World' did win out because many of these 'guys' were raised by some shitty low quality whore lazing around dating sites who was a 'mother' in name only.

The guy really didn't have a father or mother and was literally raised by a television, game console, and internet. That is all he knows.

It goes to prove that for every useless deadbeat male, there is always a female who is the cause.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I was leaving an UMC housing plan the other day as the kids were getting off the school bus. They were walking home in groups of twos and threes, but almost every kid had his/her face buried in a phone! I think this generation is going to be .. different.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Autism?

[–]er5105oke0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m old enough to remember how the “hook up culture” panic was based on fears of women having too much sex. I’m amazed to see we’ve transitioned into panic regarding how little sex men are having.....

But I’ll throw out a few thoughts:

1) young people are poor, saddled with crippling debt, and thus, have other priorities which mean they won’t prioritize long term coupling until their late 20s. 2) Women aren’t cumming when they fuck men. Men don’t care that women aren’t cumming when they fuck men. 3) Men will never report high enough levels of sexual satisfaction in societies that still choose to uphold sex-negatives mores for women. Sorry, the math will never align on this issue, no matter how hard we cling to slut-shaming: people who are taught, from birth, that their sexual exploration is inherently more immoral and dishonorable than that of their counterparts will NEVER rise to a satisfactory level of compatibility to their counterparts on this issue.

Women might be the gatekeepers, but sex is clearly a man’s institution and it seems to be lost of most men that that means less sex for men until A) the pleasure (read: orgasm) imbalance is corrected and B) we dump the pseudo-science and faux-puritanical bullshit around women and their sex lives

[–]mayth3n0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

If you guys want sex so much why don't you just fuck each other?

[–]SirNemesismary cucked joseph[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Sadly, some (most in fact) of us are straight.

[–]mayth3n0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Just close your eyes and think of someone else bingo bongo

[–]SirNemesismary cucked joseph[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Pray the straight away eh?

[–]mayth3n0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just sign a formal contract. Done and done

[–]LillthOfBabylon0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

Excuse me? The statistics wreck the whole 80-20 rule manosphere guys put.

Seems to detail the unequal distribution of sex amongst men and the fact that women are having sex and relationships with a smaller fraction of men while creep-shaming the betas.

YES. CREEPS DESERVE SHAMING. If they stopped being creeps, they'd have better relationships with women.

Many felt men’s social skills had been especially eroded by over-reliance on technology. Overindulgence in porn meanwhile offered them an escape route from reality. Yet the most compelling answer, because it contains elements of all that and more, may be signalled by young people’s increasing reluctance to date.

And yet SOMEHOW the manosphere has claimed that this is women's fault.

[–]czerdec5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

YES. CREEPS DESERVE SHAMING. If they stopped being creeps, they'd have better relationships with women.

I know a bunch of men who are never creepy and have no relationship with any woman besides their mothers.

Ergo, your claim is false. Not being creepy has zero extra rewards other than not being whatever it's fashionable to call creepy this week.

[–]binkerfluid1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

people who are truly creepy probably cant help it and have something wrong with them.

Dont confuse awkward for actual creepyness though.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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