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Women now, in Western society, have access to many effective birth control methods and access to abortion. They get to decide if they want to go to term with a child or have an abortion. Depending on the state women can put a baby up for adoption without the fathers permission. Yes men can use condoms but these are not nearly as other birth control methods especially overtime. Unless a guy gets a vasectomy he needs to be extremely cautious.

Gay men or bisexual men also need to be cautious. Men who have sex with men (MSM) are at much greater risks for STDs. 80% of syphilis cases are from MSM, MSM are 44x more likely to get HIV, and MSM have a rate of 5,000 per 100,000 for gonorrhea compared to ~1 per 100,000 for MSW and women.

Men should be more cautious of their sexual behavior, when typically people say the opposite. Parents are often more protective over their daughters having sex compared to their sons. People tell women they need to be "careful who they spread their legs with" but never tell men the same thing, even though they have a lot less reproductive control.


[–]LeaneGenovaBreaker of (comment) Chains[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy Link

Op, your post was reflaired to CMV because you are making an affirmative claim.

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (73 children) | Copy Link

Do you actually know any parents? Every mother with a son that I know, including myself, is 100% aware of this fact, and has either told or plans to tell her son (depending on age) that if he knocks up some girl, he has just set fire to the rest of his life.

I've got daughters, and have zero doubts about my ability to strong-arm them into an abortion if they get knocked up in high school or college. If my son gets some girl pregnant, there's not a fucking word that he or I or his father can say about it, and not a fucking thing we can do.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Hell. I have heard abstinence until ready to become a father and husband advocated, but only by a few. Would you suggest this course of action to your sons? It’s 100% effective at preventing them from becoming fathers, notwithstanding woman-on-man rape where the guy’s plastered or something.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I have taught all young men to treat every woman as a potential rape accuser and to not have sex until you are ready to pay for a woman's baby for 18 years.

[–]mackstarmagic2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m more on the Red Pull spectrum and your absolutely insane. Have at least a little positive outlook. Maybe it’s true neck beards are taking over.

[–]pizza_tron7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Out of the 6 closest people to me who have had children, I know for a fact 2 of those the woman got intentionally pregnant to keep the man from leaving. 1 is highly questionable.

Never skeet inside.

[–]FroggyMcnasty1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well its not 100% effective any longer, depending on the State and laws governing parental rights, he could still abstain and in an extreme situation be assigned as the father.

[–]qwertyuiop111222Purple Pill Masticator3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

have zero doubts about my ability to strong-arm them into an abortion

Well, that gave me the shivers. Heard that they are making the female version of 'Taken', and need a replacement for Liam Neeson. You in?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

JFC, you people. Are you all totally incapable of understanding that by "my daughters" I do not in fact mean "all daughters everywhere" but, instead, MY daughters?

The reason I have zero doubts about my ability to strong-arm them is that A. I am their parent and not their fucking "friend" and B. based on what I know of them at this point in both their lives, they would very likely beat me to the clinic.

[–]qwertyuiop111222Purple Pill Masticator3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah jeez, I wrote that as a compliment, Ms Neeson. I thought it was a well-written sentence, and was impressed!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ma faute! Je suis vraiment désolée. :-(

[–]_Anarchon_0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like you're speaking from experience

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I have no idea what you are trying to say. Do you think I have a much older son who knocked a girl up and had his life ruined as a result?

[–]_Anarchon_ 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

Your husband was that son that knocked up a girl and set fire to the rest of his life, dimwit.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Ha ha ha ha ha. Actually, no. An older friend of mine with a son clued me in to this fact.

[–]_Anarchon_1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Have your husband get on here and tell us how he sees it

[–]Young_Oryx 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

And if she did that, you'd accuse her of lying and claiming her husband typed a thing, believing it was her all along.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mr. Abrams is too busy fighting with my sister on Scrabble to be interested in anything on PPD other than learning how to identify a slut.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you've got something to say, spit it out.

Edit: Do you think my husband is poor white trash or something? His family disinherits illegitimate children, and the parents who are foolish enough to bring them into the world.

Edit again: We married in 2001 and our first children were born in 2009, if that is what you were thinking.

[–]__shadowwalker__0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

and have zero doubts about my ability to strong-arm them into an abortion

I hope it doesnt come to this but you always have to expect the worse. You can't just assume absolutely 100%

[–]sonofsuperman19830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think he is saying considering the lack of choice in the situation (which is fair enough, her body her choice) men should be thought that having an unwanted pregnancy with a women they don’t want to be with is up there with getting an untreatable and costly STD.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. It’s to late now.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries-1 points0 points  (52 children) | Copy Link

I've got daughters, and have zero doubts about my ability to strong-arm them into an abortion if they get knocked up in high school or college.

What if you fuck up their lives by doing so? What if they can't get past it? https://psychcentral.com/lib/understanding-abortion-grief-and-the-recovery-process/

There is an incredibly stupid 'study' that claims to know how the majority of women feel after abortion by whether or not they use anti-depressants. But people who don't feel 'worthy' of seeking help won't seek help. If you believe you're responsible for how sad you feel, you're unlikely to go to a doctor.

Many women are ok with their decision, but more may suffer greatly in the years afterwards than what is known. I know of a girl like this - she can't get past it.

A parent should advise and give their opinion. Strong-arming? No.

Would you strong-arm your son into using condoms? Going by what you said - no, you wouldn't. But you seem to think it's ok to strong-arm girls.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

How am I going to strong-arm my son into using condoms? Do you think he is going to have sex in my presence? I can (edit: and do, and will continue to) advise and threaten, but no, I actually do not think I will ever be in a position to glare at him until he is like "Oh, hold on" and puts on a condom before fucking his girlfriend.

I would rather my minor daughters regret having an abortion than regret not having one. What kind of a question is this? You think a 16-year-old is ready to have a baby?

[–]azngirl76894 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The 16 year old thinks so. The parents (who will actually raise the child) don’t.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

and teenagers are known for their amazing decision making /s

[–]azngirl76893 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That was kind of my point but OK

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Read your comments wrong, I thought you meant the teenagers as the parents haha.

[–]The-Worst-Bot2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I appreciate your enthusiasm for sarcasm, but to become a master you mustn't use /s.

I'm a human being, and this action was performed manually.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I would rather my minor daughters regret having an abortion than regret not having one. What kind of a question is this? You think a 16-year-old is ready to have a baby?

100% agree people at 16 can't legally drink yet people think it's a good idea for them to have a baby? It's absurd.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And 16yos don't actually drink? Oh, West.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You didn't mention a single thing about ensuring your son uses a bit of polyurethane on his penis for five minutes at a time, yet you think it's ok to force your daughter into an abortion.

Translation: it's easy to force women to take responsibility but it's too hard to force men to do anything. So, just let men off the hook.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, if you are determined to put the least charitable spin on anything I say, then I certainly am not interested in stopping you! Have at it.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Translation: it's easy to force women to take responsibility but it's too hard to force men to do anything

Yep women are much better behaved in society. Parents reinforce this idea.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You could somehow cause your son to abstain until he is ready to become a father and husband. This is nearly foolproof, unlike condoms and birth control, which can fail.

[–]Young_Oryx 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

What if you fuck up their lives by doing so? What if they can't get past it?

Feeling sad about having an abortion will fuck up their lives far less than having a child as an unmarried mother in high school or college. And I say this as a woman who had an abortion in my early-20s, was thoroughly traumatized by it, and got back on my feet with counseling and time. It's no fucking picnic, but moving past that kind of emotional pain is very doable.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Feeling sad about having an abortion will fuck up their lives far less than having a child as an unmarried mother in high school or college.

Yep having a child as an unmarried mother in high school or college is one of the most life ruining decisions one can make.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

That's great to hear you got to a better place!

I have one close friend and know at least 3 others who are not dealing well with abortions. They are dealing with it with drug use, which obviously isn't good. I think the pain is wrapped up in the callous attitudes of boyfriends and others who pressured them into getting one.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think the pain is wrapped up in the callous attitudes of boyfriends and others who pressured them into getting one.

That doesn't seem like it would be the best environment to raise a baby in. If a boyfriend is pressuring you into getting an abortion, it would probably be a nightmare raising a child with him.

They are dealing with it with drug use, which obviously isn't good.

If they have drug issues then that would be difficult during pregnancy and definitely not a best environment to raise a child.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

If a boyfriend is pressuring you into getting an abortion, it would probably be a nightmare raising a child with him.

My close friend wishes she had the baby and was raising it without him. She might well change her mind later on and I hope she does.

The drug use definitely came after the abortions. It's how they're dealing with it. I believe that it's best for abortion to completely the woman's own decision.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Raising it without him is she aware that’s statistically much worse for the child? Does she have enough finances to afford that? Is she working? If so can she afford daycare? Does she have enough space for a crib and all necessary baby products? Can she afford diapers?

If your automatic response to hardship is to use drugs, then you’re probably not ready to raise a child.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Does she have enough finances to afford that? Is she working? If so can she afford daycare? Does she have enough space for a crib and all necessary baby products? Can she afford diapers?

No to all of that.

If your automatic response to hardship is to use drugs, then you’re probably not ready to raise a child.

I agree.

The thing is that she still feels traumatised and empty and she can't help how she feels.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well for the sake of that potential child, it's good that she got an abortion.

The thing is that she still feels traumatised and empty and she can't help how she feels.

Hopefully she seeks therapy and can work through these issues.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 6 points7 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

95% of women don't regret getting an abortion. It's a much bigger commitment to have a child than it is to get an abortion.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (27 children) | Copy Link

It's a huge political football. Studies can be skewed every which way. Both sides of the debate have enormous agendas. One side is trying to prove one thing and the other side is trying to prove the opposite. It's vicious.

My friend, for instance, won't speak out because she thinks she'll be aligning herself with the pro-lifers. I wouldn't want to align myself with them either.

I'm on neither side but believe that we currently have no choice but to offer choice.

And forgotten in the whole debate is men, who get off scot-free and don't have to make these moral decisions or live with such decisions. (Some men will feel deeply about an abortion, but not in general, as far as I know)

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (26 children) | Copy Link

See what I don't understand about you is you don't want women to have to make this moral decision yet you think female contraception, which reduces abortions, is terrible.

And forgotten in the whole debate is men, who get off scot-free and don't have to make these moral decisions or live with such decisions.

I think you're major issue is with biology. It's my body, so my choice. It almost seems like you want men to have a say in abortion?

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

It almost seems like you want men to have a say in abortion?

No: the same rights - you want to have it and he doesn't then you can pay for it.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Child support is for the child and because of the State. I don't understand why any women would ever want to have a child when they can't afford it and the father has no interest in being present but I probably also grew up in a different environment.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Bullshit argument.

If SHE doesn't want the baby, she can just put it in a deposit box no questions asked and the State will be more than happy to pay all its expenses to raise.

If the state doesn't have any issues paying to raise a baby if the woman doesn't want it - they can do the same fucking thing if the man doesn't.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

she can just put it in a deposit box

What?

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/indiana-installs-safe-haven-baby-boxes-abandoned-newborns-n568811

Indiana has installed two "baby boxes" where mothers can anonymously drop off unwanted newborns as an extension of the state’s safe haven law.

Men who try to do so are hunted down and arrested.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

See what I don't understand about you is you don't want women to have to make this moral decision yet you think female contraception, which reduces abortions, is terrible.

I don't think the concept of contraception is terrible at all. It's needed. I think the side effects are terrible. I'm saying women have to deal with medications their whole lives that men don't have to even think about.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I think the side effects are can be terrible.

Some people don't have terrible side effects, birth control affects every woman differently.

I'm saying women have to deal with medications their whole lives that men don't have to even think about.

Yeah men also don't have to think about maternal death. Pregnancy complications are the 6th leading cause of death in the US for women 15-35 and kill 830 women everyday Birth control saves women's lives.

[–]littleprincesrose3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s amazing that we have access to birth control, I find it very important for every sexually active adult to use a long-term, reliable method. But there is just too many side effects that are overlooked and we are expected to just put up with it. In my experience, doctors prescribe the pill like candy but they dont bother to do a blood work or any kind of follow up to check its effect on the body.

I Still find being on hormonal birth control, for me personally is better than not (awfully irregular cycles causing a lot of pregnancy anxiety) but I Still wish my concerns would be taken more seriously. For example, the pill causes mood swings in my case- but it wasn’t listed among the possible side effects and I only found anecdotal evidence about it happening to someone else than me; before, I thought I was crazy and didn’t correlate the two until I came off of it for more than half a year.

All in all choice is great. Variety is great. I just hope more research happens and in the future we get even more options with less side effects. And also, that men get to have some long-term, reversible birth control method too.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes I agree with all of this. Birth control is very powerful and can have a wide range of effects that are both positive and negative. There is also a bit of trial and error and some birth controls will work better for you than others.

I just hope more research happens and in the future we get even more options with less side effects. And also, that men get to have some long-term, reversible birth control method too.

I hope so too!

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes there are definite risks of death with pregnancy and childbirth. No question.

Birth control saves lives. It also takes some lives, via blood clots etc. The new BC is even worse for blood clots. The vaginal ring carries a 6 times greater risk of blood clots. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/newer-birth-control-pills-higher-risk-of-blood-clots/

My point is that it needs to be far safer than it is. Am tired of the claims that say women have endless options and it's all so easy. For many women, it isn't easy. Side effects are common and can be pretty awful.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

The new BC is even worse for blood clots.

Can you post some data about this?

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Can you post some data about this?

https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h2135

Conclusions In these population based, case-control studies using two large primary care databases, risks of venous thromboembolism associated with combined oral contraceptives were, with the exception of norgestimate, higher for newer drug preparations than for second generation drugs.

The UK has some of the largest sources of routinely collected data in the world, with longitudinal primary care records spanning up to 25 years and linked to secondary care data and mortality records. These databases cover many millions of patients, include data both on exposure and outcomes, and therefore are representative of the setting in which drugs are used. This makes the databases ideally suited to large scale safety studies of commonly used drugs.

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're seriously making the argument that not getting pregnant saves women's lives? Duuuuuumb.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

How is that dumb? It's true pregnancy complications kill many women.

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Other things that save lives would be:
Not going swimming, not driving, not drinking alcohol, not flying, not going up or down stairs, not using an elevator, not using an oven in your house, etc...

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Would you strong-arm your son into using condoms?

That's a stupid question.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a stupid question.

Why? Why are people so afraid of insisting that boys and men do something about contraception but feel fine about raging at women about it and forcing them into abortions?

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot7 points8 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Gay men or bisexual men also need to be cautious. Men who have sex with men (MSM) are at much greater risks for STDs. 80% of syphilis cases are from MSM, MSM are 44x more likely to get HIV, and MSM have a rate of 5,000 per 100,000 for gonorrhea compared to ~1 per 100,000 for MSW and women.

so its risky to have sex for men because having sex with men is risky? fascinating

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

hahaha yes in the group of MSM.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

okay, and outside of gay ppl (You know the majority of the population), heterosexual women are more susceptible to STIs than heterosexual men are

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

yes but not even close to the same levels of difference.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

the same level of difference between gay men and straight women? okay...?? when ppl say sex is riskier for women than men, they're talking about straight people, not 2% of the population

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I meant for men having sex with women it's risky because of accidental pregnancy.

For men having sex with men it's risky because of STD rates.

[–]mydikishomofobik-2 points-1 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Woah woah woah, I just thought of something- hear me out now- what if I just never have sex with men and bang chicks instead?

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Then you are at lower risks of contracting an STD but are still at risk of accidental pregnancy.

[–]mydikishomofobik0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't remember sex ed class too good, but I'm pretty sure that, as a dude, I'm incapable of getting pregnant.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but you’re no incapable of being part of an accidental pregnancy. The woman can then decide to go to term and then bam you have a child.

[–]mydikishomofobik-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, and she can send the child support bill to Al E. S. Ingognito at 1234 Faketree Lane.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You’re an idiot if you think that’s how this will work.

[–]Bekiala2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You might do a bit more thinking about this. It will probably be the state going after you. Society isn't too happy about dead beat dads. That or if you don't want kids, get a vasectomy. Hmm . . . actually I don't know what country you live in so maybe there are more supports for single parents in your country than in mine. If so, you might be off the hook for any children you father.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Get a vasectomy. That's what I did, and I have 100% control.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm actually a woman and I have nexplanon (the implant) but awesome! Congrats on the vasectomy enjoy your freedom and control!

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

My ex had that and loved it! My fiancé had a tubal a few years ago, but I know that's not for everyone.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes I love it! So easy to get and so effective.

[–]Talono4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If they're given proper education and access to birth control, sure. But in more conservative parts of the US where sometimes sex education is poor and misleading, access to abortion is restricted, and the shame of premarital sex weighs more heavily on the female, I'm not so sure your notion is correct.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But in more conservative parts of the US where sometimes sex education is poor and misleading, access to abortion is restricted, and the shame of premarital sex weighs more heavily on the female,

Very good point.

[–]ilptrandom4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

While I don't agree it is riskier (women still carry a huge physical risk from male partners) or even that it is riskier than in the past (life in general is less violent and safer and more controlled, this includes sex) I do agree that men's risks are approaching similar levels to women's risks now. Not really a problem, unless feeling that she is risking more than you was your fetish.

" People tell women they need to be "careful who they spread their legs with" but never tell men the same thing, "

Don't stick your dick in crazy is a thing people say.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Don't stick your dick in crazy is a thing people say.

That’s true but it’s more of an attack on the woman and more light hearted.

[–]ilptrandom1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

here's Ben Franklin offering some warnings to be careful

https://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdorsey1/41docs/51-fra.html

I mean seriously western culture going way back is FULL of cautionary tales, warnings, etc.

One night with venus, a lifetime with mercury. you can look that one up if you like.

[–]ilptrandom0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The lyrics of "The house of the rising sun" are a clear warning about the dangers of knocking up low value women or the dangers of being a low value woman, depending on who sings it. Can I ask a question... are you someone whose family on both sides has been a full participant in western culture for at least two generations? Are you someone who has paid at least a little attention to western culture? Because there's warnings everywhere, some of them in various forms of code and some of them explicit.

https://youtu.be/hRXb7K7k7bQ

[–]HammockSwingin11 points12 points  (38 children) | Copy Link

To be clear the risk you've proposed is the woman getting pregnant, or getting an STD?

Women also have to worry if the condom breaks and he doesn't say anything, or going through the pain of an abortion, or ruining their social reputation, or the father ditching if she does get pregnant.

Also, men are told of these risks and it's made very clear growing up. The real issue/risk is the fact that they have high T. Men get hot and heavy and forget that they need to be aware and cautious.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Women also have to worry if the condom breaks and he doesn't say anything, or going through the pain of an abortion, or ruining their social reputation, or the father ditching if she does get pregnant

That's a good point. I agree socially it's much risker for women to sleep around.

You're right though men aren't as cautious.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Wtf are you on about? My life would be ruined if I impregnated a chick. So I'm cautious as fuck and would never even trust a girl on pills alone.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Haha in general but there are exceptions. Love your username lol

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks! I want to make it a point I'm no racist, I fuck pussies of all skin colors

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries6 points7 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

The real issue/risk is the fact that they have high T. Men get hot and heavy and forget that they need to be aware and cautious.

Women get hot and heavy and throw away caution too. The real issue is that men expect women to take on all the responsibility and themselves none.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 12 points13 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

The real issue is that men expect women to take on all the responsibility and themselves none.

This is very true. The amount of men who try to raw dog without even asking me if I'm on birth control speaks volumes about this.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

So many men are so fucking stupid it isn't even funny.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

LMAO well that we can agree on.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

So many men are so fucking stupid it isn't even funny.

Yes! You need to instruct them better, Mr Kapowie

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm telling them not to fuck you at all. They won't listen.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Give them enticements. A t-shirt maybe that says AWALT.... make the letters glow-in-the-dark so that the message does not fail them even in the gravest darkness....

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

We do what we can.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

The hilarious thing that it’s exactly the same the other way around. Arousal makes brains not function properly. Every casual hookup I went raw with, the girl suggested no condom.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Okay well they probably know if they’re on birth control or not.

No condom does feel better, but usually the guy suggests it. Also have to worry about STIs.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

They weren’t.

Some only mentioned after they knew I was snipped. (Why’d they’d believe a stranger I don’t know!)

The others were just like “let’s do it without!” Had some insistent women too. And can’t even blame of lack of sex education cus our country’s good with that.

No condom does feel better, but usually the guy suggests it.

How many women have you fucked with a penis to know this?

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Some only mentioned after they knew I was snipped. (Why’d they’d believe a stranger I don’t know!)

Ah that makes more sense but yeah I never would want to rely on a stranger for that!

How many women have you fucked with a penis to know this?

What?

[–]decoy88Black Male in London2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It’s easy to say “it’s mostly guys” when you’re experience is with “mostly guys”.

But how would you know it’s not women too unless you’re also fucking them?

I used to believe it was mostly men from hearing my female friends tell it. Until I jumped into the casual world myself and found that the recklessness happens all over.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Until I jumped into the casual world myself and found that the recklessness happens all over.

Oh 100% agreed.

I'm just surprised by how many men I've experienced who have wanted to have unprotected sex without asking me if I'm on birth control. My experience is with men. Since you have a vasectomy, you probably see it from the opposite angle, where you've already assured that you won't be impregnating someone.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That’s the thing. I don’t mention it, my default is condoms.

It may come up in conversation organically, but far from advertised.

These women, without prompt from me, have suggested “why don’t we go without?” As I was trying to put it on. They knew nothing about me except that I was funny and horny.

It was baffling at first. Thought it was an outlier until it kept happening.

[–]washington_breadstixM'gtow2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

How many women have you fucked with a penis to know this?

She probably means that no condom feels better for the woman, too.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep this is what I meant. It does feel better, although the difference is probably not to the same extent that it is for men.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Every casual hookup I went raw with, the girl suggested no condom.

Scary!

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean, I could always refuse so, not really.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean, I could always refuse so, not really.

Scary from the point of view that there are women so freely going bareback when having ONS.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh. Yeah. Acting wild out here

[–]HammockSwingin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure women do, just not to the same extent.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The real issue is that men expect women to take on all the responsibility and themselves none.

You mean, men will commit stealthing?

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

To be clear the risk you've proposed is the woman getting pregnant, or getting an STD?

Women also have to worry if the condom breaks and he doesn't say anything, or going through the pain of an abortion, or ruining their social reputation, or the father ditching if she does get pregnant.

All of these risks are within her sphere of influence. She can choose at any time to opt out, to give birth, to hold the father accountable to modern family law or not.

This is a complaint of power or fear of incompetence. The choices (real power) lie with women reproductively.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The choices (real power) lie with women reproductively.

This is mostly true.

I will say that this is not true for women under 18, where many need parental permission to get an abortion or to go on birth control.

[–]frogsgoribbit7374 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not true for all states. Not all states or even countries are created equally and we don't all have the same access to things like birth control or abortion.

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough. In the US all women have right to abortion, but the time-windows and access do vary.

It is the case in most Western countries, women do have legal access to abortion though.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

True that's why I said in the beginning of my post that I was talking about Western countries.

[–]littleprincesrose0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

She has a choice but it comes with a serious price. That’s why they have the power to decide- you couldn’t force someone to endure discomfort and pain for months, then go through a painful experience when it effects your body 0% and theirs 100%. One puts up with it if that’s their choice, but it could be torture when it isn’t. Also after the child is born it’s 18 years of responsibility- she can get financial help sure, but her life, options etc will be altered forever. She will have to be there 24/7 for a tiny Human completely dependent on her. Sure, we all make decisions and have to deal with the aftermath, Everyone knows childcare is not a walk in the park. But an unplanned pregnancy is Still not the ‘no big deal’ category for women.

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And the price isn’t “serious” for the man?

I recognize child-rearing is difficult.

It doesn’t change the reality which is one party has the final say whether it occurs or not.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The real issue/risk is the fact that they have high T

This is less and less the case each year.

n=1 but I’ve injected testosterone to levels several times the natural levels of any man. It doesn’t turn you into The Hulk.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Any woman worried about 1940s notions of "her social reputation" wouldn't be fucking people in the first place.

Most women these days are like "CASH ME OUTSAD HOW BOW DAT" and "I DON CARE I CAN DO WHAT I WANT"

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Maybe they should be, but they are biologically inclined to be less cautious as opposed to women because for the vast majority of human history (and still in most places around the world) sex is far more risky for women.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a good point. I know it's insane that this is the first time in human history where it could have flipped.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries11 points12 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

Boys are told about the risks of pregnancy and men know what the risks are. They just largely don't care. They see pregnancy as a 'woman's issue'. They expect that women will be on contraception - and if something goes wrong with that, she'll have an abortion.

They are taught what the risks are but they still treat themselves as children and women as adults. Women are expected to take on all responsibility while men expect to take on none.

(In saying the above, I don't mean all men, but just a large enough proportion)

The birth control methods for women are all bad. There are severe issues with every single method except abstinence. They all either introduce artificial hormones or an artificial device into the body. You say you've had a good experience with nexplanon. Other women will say it took away their sex drive and gave them thyroid issues.

https://www.change.org/p/nhs-nexplanon-implanon-causing-lifelong-thyroid-problems-must-be-researched

What we're doing to women with birth control is completely fucked - while the majority of men do not have to deal with anything of the sort their entire lives.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Hopefully the male BC Pill will have much less side effects. Since regulations has got way better

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hopefully the male BC Pill will have much less side effects. Since regulations has got way better

Yes!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Women are expected to take on all responsibility while men expect to take on none

Have you heard of child support?

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Have you heard of child support?

I'm speaking about birth control.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm pretty sure condom use is more common than birth control.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 5 points6 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

They are taught what the risks are but they still treat themselves as children and women as adults. Women are expected to take on all responsibility while men expect to take on none.

This is so true.

The birth control methods for women are all bad.

I don't think that's fair. Birth control methods can all be bad but women react differently towards them. Birth control can treat PCOS, for endometriosis, and for acne. I have had great experience with birth control but I understand other women don't. I still think that it's amazing that women have the option of birth control.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries8 points9 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

I think it's a fair comment because of the high number of risks associated with birth control. Some women are ok on it but how do we know how they are not being adversely affected even so? Not everything shows up until years later, such as liver or thyroid issues. And how would most women know if their libido is being affected if they've been on birth control since they were 16?

And then there are issues with blood clots and cancer and a thousand other things. I know that birth control is used to treat some things but it still carries risk. And most women are being 'treated' by these medications when they have NO medical issues - they simply do not wish to get pregnant.

Women being on birth control (which might be affecting them very negatively now or in the future) benefits men. And men in this forum (and elsewhere) commonly say, oh, women have no end of birth control options. But there are really NO options that carry no side effects.

Men's hormonal contraception has not gone ahead because it produces the same effects that women are putting up with.

Even the simple act of removing an implant can sometimes cause problems: https://www.health24.com/Lifestyle/Woman/Menstruation/woman-goes-through-hell-with-implanon-birth-control-implant-20160422

And she had hair loss and headaches in the years prior, while using the implant.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 7 points8 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

And most women are being 'treated' by these medications when they have NO medical issues - they simply do not wish to get pregnant.

Getting pregnant is a medical issue. I have significantly more agency as a woman because of birth control. I can now have sex without living in fear of becoming pregnant. I would never want to rely on man to ensure that I don't get pregnant. So you can talk about how horrible birth control is but it is one of the best things that has ever happened to advance women.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Getting pregnant is a medical issue.

No, it isn't a medical issue. A pregnancy isn't a disease.

I have significantly more agency as a woman because of birth control. I can now have sex without living in fear of becoming pregnant. I would never want to rely on man to ensure that I don't get pregnant.

Yes to all of that.

So you can talk about how horrible birth control is but it is one of the best things that has ever happened to advance women.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. I'm talking about negative medical effects. You are talking about a social revolution.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, it isn't a medical issue. A pregnancy isn't a disease.

I mean in some ways it is. For women between the ages of 15-35 pregnancy complications are the 6th leading cause of death in the US. In developing countries the rate is significantly worse. Everyday 830 women die from pregnancy complications. So if it's not a disease, then is it homicide?

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That is very true about the risks. But it still stands that pregnancy is a natural process and not a disease.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's still a medical issue. Even if it's a "natural process" it's killing a lot more women than birth control ever did.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No, it isn't a medical issue. A pregnancy isn't a disease.

Pregnancy isn't a disease, but it is a medical issue. Not all medical issues are diseases; menopause and a broken bone aren't diseases either.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Pregnancy isn't a disease, but it is a medical issue. Not all medical issues are diseases; menopause and a broken bone aren't diseases either.

I wouldn't call pregnancy or menopause medical issues, because they are both natural processes and don't need fixing. Whereas a broken bone is a medical issue and does need fixing.

There can be medical complications with pregnancy though and it does carry health risks.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lmao “don’t need fixing” them why are there c-sections? Why do women even have to deliver babies in the hospital? Why does pregnancy kill so many more women in developing countries? Why is there an entire part of the hospital dedicated to child birth?

Because it’s a fucking medical issue.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your points about things that can go wrong are all true.

But it's still not a medical issue that needs fixing. Unless you consider every process in the human body a medical issue that needs fixing - because every process or structure in a body can go wrong. An arm bone becomes a medical issue when it is broken.

Women did have babies for hundreds of thousands of years before modern medical advances - before c-sections or hospitals. It's also true that pregnancy and childbirth carried a high risk of injury or death.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s a good point thank you for this clarification.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

You can also trick him by telling him you ARE on the pill and crying WHAT DON'T YOU TRUST MEEEE when he pulls out a rubber.

Then you go "tee hee hee, guess we were part of that 6% where it failed, BABY BUX PLOX"

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The pill is actually closer to 9% failure rate. This is mainly due to human error such as not taking it everyday, not refilling the pill on time and interactions with medications.

you ARE on the pill and crying WHAT DON'T YOU TRUST MEEEE when he pulls out a rubber.

Omg be realistic, 90% of the time men don't want to wear condoms. If a girl starts saying that don't you think it might not be a good idea to sleep with her? Most of the time men just assume the woman will deal with all pregnancy related stuff and take the risk.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This is mainly due to

spermjacking

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No it's really not. Look at the statistics I posted, condoms have an even higher failure rate. The IUD and Nexplanon have much lower failure rates because they are not prone to human error.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Abstinence is 100% just saying

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yep and men who don't want to risk having to pay child support can use abstinence to prevent this.

[–]Bouletka1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I totally agree with you. I got treated with the pill for endometriosis and 5 years later learnt I have brittle bones (bones ages 65 at the actal age of 29). the doc just forgot to mention that side effect of the pill... and of course you don't feel your bones becoming brittle, so I discovered that when doing a bone density test my mom insisted on (at 24 I did one too, and my bones were in perfect health for their age).

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh hell I'm so sorry.

I didn't even know about the brittle bone thing. I just looked it up. How scary! Seems that women gain much of their bone mass when they are under 30 - and the pill affects our ability to gain that bone mass. And osteoporosis rates are increasing. http://www.thedoctorwillseeyounow.com/content/womens_health/art2849.html

Fuck.

I hope you're able to reverse the bone loss!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I've tried literally every birth control and they all had side effects.

The one that I liked best was vasectomy. Then withdrawal, but you really have to trust the guy for that (only did it when I was married).

I'm currently on the copper IUD and it's mostly okay, but uterus pretty much always hurts a little. And holy fuck they were NOT lying when they said "increased menstrual flow". I had to buy super extra plus absorbent tampons which I've never bought before in my life. They're massive!

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You could possibly look into the diaphragm.

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with birth control. I've heard mixed things about the copper IUD but am glad there is at least one non-hormonal option.

[–]zayelionMale, Only Attracts Lesbians1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

There are problems with abstinence let us not kid ourselves.

[–]Ezaar1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Appropriate context with an on going conversation until some understanding is met is the key to how abstinence works.

Plus there’s other considerations to how it can help a person grow, until they trust some one enough to be partners.

Other wise slut it up.

Or

Otherwise responsibly practice casual sex practices.

[–]zayelionMale, Only Attracts Lesbians1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Grow, lose their minds, spend way to much emotional resources into controlling relationships, yeah all the same.

I think responsible sex practices and a full understanding of the physical and psychological consequences of all forms of it need to be given as options to society. As the thread is trying to push, it puts the risk more so on men, and men are good with risk.

[–]Ezaar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Risk often involves condensing to one solution then a ton on it.

I hear women are better at gathering and assigning value to “topics”, but fail at condensing which one to act on.

[–]_Anarchon_2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You forgot to add that women can make false rape claims more easily than men.

[–]Bekiala2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm not going to argue against you here. I have often thought that men get to decide about children before they unzip their pants. After that they have no control.

I was actually in a long discussion with a guy who said he would only want to have a son and would have a sex-selective abortion. It took a lot of back and forth before he realized that he actually could never choose for a partner to have an abortion. I was pretty appalled that he hadn't figured this out.

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thats why you go the Turkey baster way and 0ay 10k to maake sure you get a son .

[–]Bekiala0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What is "Oay 10k"?

I don't see how a father would have anything more to say about the turkey baster than he would about an abortion. Of course he might find a woman who agrees to this but she could still change her mind at any point and he would have no legal recourse.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Only if the woman is pro-choice and raised in a pro-choice family.

The parents that are cautioning their daughters to be "care who they spread their legs with" are mostly pro-life families. The closest my mom came to saying something like that is to "wait until college, that's what I did."

I know you're like "oh well it's a person's choice to be pro-choice" but not really, we've all been brain-washed by our parents. My first cousin was raised pro-life and when she got pregnant at 16 she had the kid. I was raised pro-choice and had an abortion when I got pregnant at 18.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The parents that are cautioning their daughters to be "care who they spread their legs with" are mostly pro-life families.

This is a really good point. I think especially younger women, like you pointed out, have less ability to be pro-choice. Thank you for this perspective.

[–]boundarychimpsALL THE COLORS2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think that more immediate risks (say, "no, I don't feel like stopping") are maybe a bit more even. And are generally seen as falling mainly on women, since they're physically weaker and people think that that matters.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hm that's an interesting/good point. I guess I see rape and sex as separate but there could be overlap, like in the situation you mentioned.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can agree with a lot of this. The main concerns women have are being physically overpowered by a man for sexual coercion, battery, or assault. Overall, sex can be dangerous for both genders but due to this current political climate, it is a scary time for men sexually and not only due to the fact of leftist and feminist social policy, men are given hyper-agency by default.

[–]LillthOfBabylon1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

access to abortion.

Have you seen the statistics on how many people don't like abortions and how horrible abortion can be? I have access to suicide too.

Depending on the state women can put a baby up for adoption without the fathers permission.

Then don't live in those states. Some states let you fuck a teenager but I'm not complaining that we have a pedophile problem.

Men who have sex with men (MSM) are at much greater risks for STDs.

Because men do more risky things and the LGBT community are having orgies with random people. Also google Bug Chasers with a vomit bag next to you.

People tell women they need to be "careful who they spread their legs with" but never tell men the same thing, even though they have a lot less reproductive control.

Considering that people, especially in this sub-reddit, look down upon women for being single mothers and sluts, yes. Women need to be more careful.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Have you seen the statistics on how many people don't like abortions and how horrible abortion can be? I have access to suicide too.

Nope. I have seen the one where 95% of women don't regret getting an abortion.

Then don't live in those states.

You can't control which state a pregnant woman travels to.

Because men do more risky things

Partly true but also has to do with biology and higher transmission rates during anal sex.

look down upon women for being single mothers and sluts, yes. Women need to be more careful

It's my choice if I become a single mother. But yes your second point is true that socially women are judged more for having sex.

[–]LillthOfBabylon0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I have seen the one where 95% of women don't regret getting an abortion.

Last time I checked only 25% of pregnant women get abortions.

You can't control which state a pregnant woman travels to.

I mean, you can control who you impregnate.

It's my choice if I become a single mother.

Not always because the guy can just randomly walk out. Or worse, be a felon.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not always because the guy can just randomly walk out.

That's why you don't have a child out of wedlock.

you can control who you impregnate.

Agreed.

[–]ColCrin1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think that's non-sense. Women always risk physical violence.

[–]Bekiala0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, physical violence and bipedal childbearing is more or less dangerous depending on what country you live in and your race.

However if you qualify the OPs statement and make it "Men are more at risk than women for having children they don't want when they have sex" then I can see that this is true. I actually wish more people thought and talked about this.

[–]uncle_irohh3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

To add to OP's point, men can be accused of rape/sexual violence even if the sex was consensual. A women's claim to victimhood is automatically assumed to be trustworthy in the #metoo age, while a man's claim is still more likely to be dismissed as frivolous.

Case in point: Asia Argento

[–]drawinglizards2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

a woman's claim to victimhood is assumed to be trustworthy

No it's not, that is what women are fighting for. To be believed and taken seriously when they report sexual violence. And that's after the fact, so you're not talking about risky sex anymore, you're talking about what happens after something shitty has already gone down.

a man's claim is likely to be dismissed as frivolous

If you're talking about men's claims of being raped/assaulted, then yes, this is messed up and it's an issue

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You have no idea how powerful white woman tears are .

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you're talking about what happens after something shitty has already gone down.

No, that's totally wrong. They are talking about "consensual" sex. I can tell because I can read.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men can be accused of rape even if they weren't in the same room.

[–]mydikishomofobik1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Hetero sex is riskier for women than men. Women are more likely to catch STDs, and they typically have a lot more risk and responsibility when it comes to pregnancy, child birth, and caring for babies.

But men have to invest more resources in getting laid in the 1st place.

MSM stuff may be riskier for men than hetero sex for women. MSM definitely have much higher rates of some STDs than straight women do. But I'm not gay/bi so that's not my problem.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

and they typically have a lot more risk and responsibility when it comes to pregnancy, child birth, and caring for babies.

That's a very good point.

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[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We’re overrun, retreat! Retreat to the porn cave, lads, the Femoids can’t reach us in there! It’s our last chance!

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Why the hell can women give up a baby for adoption without the permission of the father?

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Short answer: "What if the woman doesn't know who the father is or he won't contact her?"

Long answer: the adoption industry is very complex and varies by state law in the US

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If she doesn't know the father at the time of birth, how should that affect child support and adoption decisions?

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

How should it? Or how does it?

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Should

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There should be paternity testing done before a man has to pay child support. Child support is for the child because the state doesn't want to have to pay for it. If a woman never asks for benefits then the state will never force a man to pay child support.

The child will likely have a better life if it's adopted as an infant than it would with two parents who barely know each other. I am not really sure how I feel about it morally though. There is a father registry that men can go on in some states. Ideally it should have both parent's signatures but I can see how that could possibly be difficult if for example I had a one night stand in Amsterdam and got pregnant from it.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because it's HER baby and HIS obligation to PAY for it.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why the hell can women give up a baby for adoption without the permission of the father?

Can they? That doesn't seem right at all.

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's what OP said.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends on the state. I posted sources for all my claims that you can click on.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

U right

[–]gothpunkboy890 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

Your only risk shown is for homosexual intercourse. Though you do not show the female side of that.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

almost no STDs. I can find a statistic if you want but super low rates.

[–]tylmin 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

For lesbians, yes.

For heterosexual woman, no.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep that was what I meant.

[–]gothpunkboy890 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pdf/library/reports/surveillance/cdc-hiv-surveillance-report-2015-vol-27.pdf

Persons whose transmission category is classified as male-to-male sexual contact include men who have ever had sexual contact with other men (i.e., homosex-ual contact) and men who have ever had sexual contact with both men and women (i.e., bisexual contact). Per-sons whose transmission category is classified as het-erosexual contact are persons who have ever had heterosexual contact with a person known to have, orto be at high risk for, HIV infection (e.g., an injec-tion drug user). The heterosexual contact category excludes men who have ever had sexual contact with both men and women.

The source seems to be inflating the numbers a bit. At least with this CDC ones. It literally doesn't even consider female to female sex and defines homosexual and bisexual as the same thing.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Female to female sex have almost no transmission rate. The CDC focuses on men who have sex with men and bisexual men are included in that statistic.

[–]gothpunkboy890 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Yea that is horse shit and you know it. The exchange of body fluids can allow the transmission of STDs. And women are more then capable of exchanging body fluids.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

It's possible but the rates are much lower. I've taken classes about sexual health.

[–]gothpunkboy890 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

WSW are at risk of acquiring bacterial, viral, and protozoal STIs from both female and male partners. WSW should not be presumed to be at low or no risk for STIs based on stated sexual orientation. 

Direct from your link.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yes they are at risk but the risks are much lower. I'm not sure why you're getting so hung up on this.

[–]gothpunkboy890 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Because it is a flawed statistic put out by cdc.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

How is flawed? It includes bisexual men in MSM (men who have sex with men) and the rates of transmission of HIV between women who have sex with women are so low that they are not considered to be a public health crisis.

[–]guy_246010 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Short of Aids, a pregnancy is about the worst complication imo.

The thought that you can just hand-wave that away with "Oh she has easy access to an abortion" is nonsense.

Look I'm about as pro choice as you can reasonably be, but I cant see it as a trivial decision.

Each year in the U.S., 700 to 900 women die related to pregnancy and childbirth. But for each of those women who die, up to 70 suffer hemorrhages, organ failure or other significant complications. That amounts to more than 1 percent of all births

18 years of child support is nothing compared to the above.

Yeah sorry, for me thats all I need to think you'll either need to relent, or move the goalposts significantly to try to retain your position.

Clearly I think data shows riskier physically. I'd also say that a woman takes a huge hit in smv if she has children, even if her body "bounces back" Guys take a hit too depending on context, but its a bigger negative for women imo. a guy can out-earn that hit, a woman cant exactly.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

See I think it's riskier for women to have children than men but not to have sex. I do see your point though maybe I am making abortion to sound more accessible and an easier process than it is. I am also coming from an environment where abortion is very accessible, most people are pro-choice and birth control is readily available.

[–]guy_246011 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Even on a personal level, I cant see it as an easy choice. living in a very liberal place wouldn't change that.

The more time has transpired from conception to abortion, the less comfortable I am with it because it increases doubt. Clump of cells before encephalization ? no problem, to a degree I'll acknowledge I'm drawing some fairly arbitrary lines. but thats the point of a fetal ultrasound, aside from the extra hoops, it removes that emotional distance. Viability is a fuzzy line, but again more time passes = doubt grows.

Maybe I'm making it harder than it needs to be, but I think thats the point, it is a hard decision.

Overall I find the bodily autonomy argument sufficient to provide the right, but legality and morality are not quite the same thing.

Needless to say I'd be horribly conflicted if I had an SO and the topic came up either way.

People might think "Its not your choice to make" but thats short sighted. If you get a woman pregnant and she asks or implies she doesn't know what to do, laughing and yelling hot potato! as though you are nor relieved of this dilemma would be a pretty shit thing to do. "not my choice thats all on you" is all too easy an answer, its the cowards way out.

[–]littleprincesrose2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think in a long-term relationship, a plan in case of an unplanned pregnancy should be discussed. Sure, it might be different when you are there and it’s still not an easy choice, But it’s important to know where your partner stands before something happens.

I told my boyfriend at the beginning that I’m not going to continue a pregnancy in case BC fails. We agreed that we really dont want children and we are mindful of birth control to avoid a pregnancy happening in the foreseeable future, but he would agree with terminating. But the point is we are on the Same page. I couldn’t be with someone strongly pro-birth. I also have friends who wouldn’t terminate- in their case, I wouldn’t want to be with someone who expected me to have an abortion. Incompatibility in thai topic can be a dealbreaker too.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a good point. The issue is that some women and men feel differently hypothetically than when it is reality. `

[–]guy_246010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great point, but I wasn't that proactive when it was relevant.

[–]confusedspade97Ruled by Statistics[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Personally I see a fetus as basically a parasite that would be invading my body and want it out of my body ASAP. Everybody's different though.

I'm not in a place in my life where a SO opinion would ever sway me to go to term but agreed that could be a difficult situation.

[–]guy_246010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I dont have an issue with the parasite framing.

Even if I was confident the decision would be easy, if actually faced with it, I dont know that my confidence would remain. One time I had an ex text me congratulations you're a father, afaik It was spite and the rumor later was miscarriage (bit too convenient) but While I dont know I could remain confident, but the closest Ive ever been to the situation, my thoughts were consistent with my current position, I didn't flip to it being easy.

I'm not trying to complicate it for anyone, just highlight that its highly individual.

I wouldn't try to sway an SO either way without serious extenuating circumstances.

I'd see some value in having a shared understanding though. I'm not a "false support" type.

[–]Bekiala0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Take an up-vote for being such a damn decent dude!

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

just because women can kill their unborn babies doesn't mean unwanted pregnancies are great for women. abortion, adoption, or being a single mother - pretty much all of her options suck and she's going to have to choose one of them.

men only have to deal with that shit if the woman knows who they are. there are lots of dudes out there who don't even realize they knocked up some chick because it was just a random hookup or ONS and they never saw each other again. for the guy, that's where it ends but the woman had to deal with the baby.

also, STDs are generally have a higher transmission rate from male to female than from female to male. for example if a man has normal penis in vagina sex with a an HIV positive woman, he only has like a 0.04% chance of catching it. it's about twice as likely for a woman to catch it from an HIV+ man.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for info. Didn't know this

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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