TheRedArchive

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97

This is SUPER controversial in today’s “no means no” era. Let me start off with saying I have a borderline Aspergers mind. I love the saying “clear contracts, long friendships”. And I hate playing games. I like my relationships to run bluntly, straight to the point, and I take “no” literally usually, and I have no problems saying no myself.

But I was telling my wife a story of how I was visiting a new gym once, and two female powerlifters, working out as a team were taking the only two squat racks in the gym. I asked if I could work in to their sets politely. For the first time ever in my life, these girls said no. They were just starting and I know how long powerlifting workouts go and I certainly didn’t have time for that, and I certainly wasn’t letting my 20$ drop in fee go to waste (I was travelling) so on her first rest, I just started taking her plates off. When she protested, I said don’t worry, I will be done my set before your rest period is over. I was really only asking to be polite, but everyone realizes that nobody has the right to monopolize the squat rack for an hour, and every gym goes knows this, but the request is a polite formality.

She said to me “Maybe they thought you were trying to hit on them. Also, women like saying no to men. Sometimes just for the sake of it. Even if they don’t actually mean no. I did that myself just today.”

She tells me this again and again in sex as well. When I will complain that it has been too long since we have had sex, she will get just as frustrated as me, saying “no doesn’t always mean no you idiot! Sometimes I need you to just take me even though I say no, I am just testing how bad you want me!”

So I tried it. When we were done, she said “THAT’S my kink” I was like “you serious? I have been asking you for years if you had any kink or fantasy and you said no!” She was like “if I told you, it wouldn’t be hot that you did it, you would just be doing what I told you to do.”

I believe no means no. But my belief in that made me a subpar lover over the past year. Since that incident she has not been able to keep her hands off me. Telling me how much she loves my cock, groping me while I am driving, doing chores, bending over doing stuff poking her butt out saying “ well are you going to come molest my anus or not!?” Acting like she hasn’t acted this whole relationship.

I understand why some women are mad about ending up on the wrong side of this dynamic. But just like the villagers in the boy who cried wolf story, men are struggling to make sense of what women really want and mean because the way they communicate isn’t direct. It would be really nice if women only said no when they actually mean no, not when they mean “fuck yes, but only if you aren’t such a pussy that you take my no seriously”. Women please take note of this. You can help. I don’t like this way of doing things.


[–]Young_Oryx 1 points [recovered]  (20 children) | Copy Link

It would be really nice if women only said no when they actually mean no, not when they mean “fuck yes, but only if you aren’t such a pussy that you take my no seriously”.

Trust me, there are whole swaths of us out here who don't play stupid "I expect you to be a mindreader" games. No offense, but your wife sounds really immature and terrible at communication.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew21 points22 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

and this is AWESOME bluepill advice to screw men in the ass when dealing with the vast swaths of women who are feminine and absolutely DO play these games and punish men for failing their tests

"trust me, men, because i dont give a flying fuck about your sexual success, just the female imperative"

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, and I've seen purple pill dating coaches such as Mark Manson advocate this fallacy as well. I think the only girls who never shit test are either autistic or are so insanely attracted to you that it doesn't even matter. And unless you're a billionaire super-model, it's more likely it's the former

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup

[–]Reed_49830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fucking toxic attitude. A man can never know whether "no" actually means yes and when ignoring many "nos" will land you a rape charge. Feminine women? I like to date adult people.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Agree, not all women do this, but I am pretty sure that all men have experienced it at some point.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Every woman CRAVES the feeling of being desired, of looking in her man's eyes and feeling all his uncontrollable passion for her. It's hot as fuck

When a woman says no to a clumsy beta who asks if she wants to have sex, it's not that she doesn't mean it. The very fact he is asking is such a turn-off that she really can't fuck him; but if said beta actually pursues her like a fucking man, then it turns her on and the "no" becomes a "yes"

[–]poopidydoopscoop 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

I truly believe most women are like this. This is not an anomaly trait that only your wife posseses. As much as us men don't want to play games with the opposite sex I believe you do not have a choice.

Yes there are exceptions to every rule, but they are just that, exceptions.

[–]reddishrobin5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So you have no choice but be a rapist and hope the woman secretly meant yes by her no? Good luck with that

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I truly believe most women are like this.

They are not.

[–]poopidydoopscoop 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Says one single woman. I'm speaking on generalities, sorry if it does not apply to. I made it clear there are exceptions.

Question. What makes you the defacto authority on this? You offered no facts in your "rebuttal".

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Question. What makes you the defacto authority on this? You offered no facts in your "rebuttal".

I'm not an authority. But from talking with lots of young women, I know we like to feel aroused before sex happens.

Dragging a woman off to the bedroom works if that's her kink. Otherwise, no.

[–]SexyCheeto0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And terrible fucking communication if you know what I mean

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

there are whole swaths of us out here

Dozens! Nay, hundreds!

[–]choseyourpoison27 points28 points  (35 children) | Copy Link

I'm a woman and I like all of my experiences accompanied by an enthusiastic "YES". Even a playful 'no' is still a 'no'.

[–]acetylcysteinemescaline12 points13 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

In the book “Modern Romance,” Ansari notes that in some South American cultures, “no” is commonly used as a try harder mechanism towards men. Silence or ignoring is the true “no.” I thought that was interesting.

[–]choseyourpoison0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Umm...that may be true. I've seen women play coy. I'm wondering if I've every played coy. Thinking back, if a couple of people would've tried harder, I probably would have given them a chance at dating (not sex) so, maybe that is a part of the culture. I can see how this could be a problem, though. Leaving things up to interpretation can do more harm than good, imo. Especially, with sex. I would say, maybe she wants you to persist but, at some point, before it is actually sex, she should have given in, you know?

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

Wasn't Ansari "metoo'd" a while back? Sounds like he has a problem with consent and is trying to justify his own bad behavior.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I don’t disagree with you but the story that came out about him was more about a woman being uncomfortable and him ignoring that to get sex. Overall his “bad behavior” was pretty meh, she should have spoken up IMO although he could have been more aware.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Did she ever explicitly say no, or was her body language potentially interpretable as "hard to get". See why I'm so against this "guessing games" shit?

I'm not blaming the woman in question, I'm saying this is why we need enthusiastic affirmative consent, and women saying "nah we don't, just don't be a pussy or a sperglord" can fuck off.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Yeah IIRC it was more about her non verbal cues showing she was uncomfortable. Idk that id say it looked like playing hard to get but we only got her side of the story.

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

but we only got her side of the story.

as is tradition

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh please

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean, but seriously tho

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Seriously that’s not true

[–]Reed_49830 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm saying this is why we need enthusiastic affirmative consent, and women saying "nah we don't, just don't be a pussy or a sperglord" can fuck off.

Do you agree with this?

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t agree with affirmative consent laws that are ambiguous or require some sort of explicit express consent, I’m fine with a NMN standard but idk why you’re perusing a 20 day old thread

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Well you'll be happy to know that there are men and women here telling men that that only applies to autistic people and losers, and that successful people who aren't autists can go ahead and fuck you anyway because they "get" social cues.

[–]choseyourpoison4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Hmm...I want to be thoughtful about my response to this...
We kind of grew up in an era where many of us were influenced by unrealistic hollywood/sitcom stories. There's this super insidious idea that a potential lover will just "get" you and understand you without your making the effort to take initiative and translate who you are to the other person. I remember, in my youth, having the fantasy that someone would just read me and just KNOW I want them by the way I behave around them and how nervous I get and that they would seduce me and be assertive about it. Now that I'm a bit older and have more insight, I realize that came from a place of not wanting to take accountability for initiating romance and not take risks by expressing a desire for someone. I don't know what it is for other women but, I understand, especially after having spent alot of time observing my own behaviors, that a person who will shoot past my reluctance, even if I like it in the moment, will force their way into every other aspect of my life and be confused that I don't like their boundary pushing as it was initially the thing I loved about them.

If I'm with someone and it's getting hot and heavy, any reluctance, I will back off and give her time to make a decision about it. There's plenty more to do than sex and that can come at any time so...again, though, I don't know what it is for other women. I've been seduced by a boundary pusher and had he tried, at any time, I'd have given in...but, that stems from something deeper and I stay tf away from anyone who makes me feel that way because I know it's toxic..it feels good but, it's toxic.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

There's always the male hollywood/sitcom story. You know, the one where Joe Average fixes his cap on The Insanely Beautiful Girl From Next Door Who He Is Destined To Be With Forever, but she has no interest in him. UNTIL, he slays the dragon, he reads her diary and figures out what she wants, breaks into her house and fills it with candles and rose petals and/or does any of a number of things that in real life would have you arrested.

Shen, even though she has said NO NO NO the entire time, suddenly melts in his arms and is like "just fuck me. Fuck me senseless. You slayed the dragon, you tightened your jaw and said "this is between you and me, leave the girl out of this". You stalked my history and spent $250000 on staging the My Little Pony ice dancing show I wrote a script for when I was six, blah blah fucking blah.

[–]choseyourpoison0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

LOL. You and I have common resentments. Cheers to that.

You know, I guess the story isn't entertaining without some over-the-top plot but, we also end up taking lessons from those stories. I had some r/nicegirl years and...boy...I mean, that's kind of all I knew, though; that my kindness should grant me access to sex or that I should find some kind of way to impress a woman I wanted and that would persuade her to finally see me for the amazing counterpart I can be. I still find myself correcting that behavior, I can't steamroll some girl into loving, liking, or sexing me but, lol, Aladin did it, The Beast did it, the shitty dude from The Breakfast Club did it, hell Sleeping Beauty did not consent to that damn kiss...lol...what were they thinking? But, if no one is giving you real guidance on these things, you cultivate these unrealistic expectations in your head and then find yourself the adult woman who calls the cops on the guy who sent you a dick pick but, births 8 children to the guy who doesn't believe in safe words.

I'm in agreement with you, though. Any lack of consent should always be taken seriously. I get it's a turn on to some people but, I think it should be generally taught that that is a game we shouldn't play. Like, our culture should talk more about enthusiastic consent and allow the "pretense of nonconsent" to kind of fall into niche populations. I don't know. I don't think there would ever really be a way to make that a thing, though. It's a sexually liberal time, now.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I can only speak for myself: but the reason I went my own way was I can't stand the bullshit games, as opposed to having any actual hatred for women.

The way we socialize both genders is toxic.

[–]choseyourpoison0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

It is very toxic. I have trouble with women, too. For instance, if I'm attracted to you, I get excited about it and I demonstrate that. For whatever reason, it's a turn off for a lot of women. I'm assuming they want someone to always play it cool. This is terrible, though. Because 4 months into that relationship, she'll be crying that the person who never really showed interest isn't really showing interest. I wouldn't really throw in the towel though. I'm starting to have conversations with myself about the women I want and my expectations of them. I just may grow old and die alone and that's alright. I just may find a woman like me and that would be awesome. But, like me, a lot of women have some growing to do. Some won't ever reach maturity.

Since you're a MGTOW, I have a question. Do you ever have companionship? Do you ever even just find a dtf or something just, I guess, to abate that lack of affection or is it just a thing you don't need?

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Since you're a MGTOW, I have a question. Do you ever have companionship?

I have a cat. I have friends. I even have - I hope you're sitting down - female friends. And none of them have any issue with me, or my position.

They know I don't hate women, regardless of what some bleating cuck here might say. Some of them know I've been to more than one third world country, digging wells so children have water, or building houses for homeless women with children.

And if you have an actual honest conversation, they realize that what I'm saying is not that crazy. To the fat purple haired activist, I'm like "hey, you're American. But you know what? Saying that Americans as a class do things like bomb the Middle East isn't accusing you personally of bombing the Middle East. But that you're part of a country that - guess what... bombs the Middle East." In the same way that "white privilege" doesn't talk down at any individual white man and/or woman and accuse them of personally shooting black motorists, but we have a system that does exactly that - that we built.

Likewise, I'm not suggesting every individual woman robs men of their money and children. But many do, and they've built a system and entire industries that does it.

See my point? Toxic Skittles theory. I'm not risking everything and then being blamed for "being too autistic" to not know that the sweet kid who lied about her true intentions for years suddenly changed. The system we're both in has us doing things that we can't stand, and it hurts us.

Do you ever even just find a dtf

God, no. I hate sex.

or something just, I guess, to abate that lack of affection or is it just a thing you don't need?

The Buddha once said if you love flowers you water the plant, you don't cut the flowers off and put them in a vase.

[–]choseyourpoison0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok. That's reasonable. It's insightful and I'm happy you still connect with women on some level. For me, connecting with men is sooo important, especially lately in my life. Like, I need, I guess, that interaction with them...gives me a strong sense of balance. Good luck to you, sir. Hope to ever have another discussion with you again. It was enjoyable.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ignore the incel people raging around various subs: Genuine MGTOW folks just want nothing to do with the rigged game that is the gender war. They quietly, happily, but firmly bow out.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes correct, not all women do this, but I am pretty confident that all men have experienced this behavior at some point in their lives.

[–]choseyourpoison1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. I have a friend who enjoyed her "rape" games with her ex. She used to tell me about them and it freaked me out, every time. What happens on the day she really isn't playing? To me, if you do something that may invalidate a future decision then, you may be propping yourself up for something serious. Not a rape apology but, I think it's always just good to look out for your credibility should something not so thrilling occur. I have no idea how to advise men on this sort of thing, though. Because, what if you're into it? What if the both of you are into it? But, I mean, I'm sure I'm into eating pound cake every day for breakfast but, the potential repercussions could be costly, you know? Better to avert the whole thing.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

True. The safe thing to do is to take every no literally. But like any of the safest solutions, we comprimise fun. Convertibles are more fun than hard tops. Motorcycles are more fun than convertibles. Racing is more fun than obeying the speed limit... etc. If you confide in someone that you have a rape fantasy, then you have probably done that risk/reward calculation in your head. Like giving a key to a neighbor. Yes you might regret it later down the road, but you are probably far more likely to benefit from giving up some vulnerability than to get burned by it, like me locking myself out of the house yesterday. True I could change my mind and want the key back in the future but they could claim they lost it and later use it for nefarious purposes, but safety is sometimes not beneficial in the grand scheme of things.

[–]choseyourpoison0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok, so this is a good and thoughtful response. Yes, it is thrilling to take chances. You are right, convertibles are more fun than hard tops and motorcycles are more fun than convertibles.

This is where I have concerns in the context of sex. Let's say a guy is thinking it's just a game of "pretend nonconsent"; a bit more intense but, maybe she's really playing the part. She presses charges. His entire life changes; especially in this era. He genuinely thought he had consent. What if knowing that he had actually committed a rape and that it was not pretend caused him emotional or psychological damage? We already see hard repercussions in grey consent. For instance, an 18 year old boy with a 16 year old girlfriend is clearly not a sexual predator; at least within that context. He can be filed as one, though. And that can have life long repercussions.

So...motorcycles are fun, driving motorcycles on sidewalks is more fun, driving two motorcycles on the same sidewalk is even more fun.

I'm sleepy so, I may come back to this and address it more articulately later on.

[–]CrestfallenWolf0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Might want to try and get your fellow females in line with this way of thinking. It's women like OPs wife that get women like you in bad situations.

[–]choseyourpoison0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Well, now. LOL...let's not...let's not slam the spurs into that particular horse, there...lol.

Rapists get women like me into bad situations and women like op's wife. I am going to go ahead and say, and I'm not a guy so, I'm not the authority on men...but, I think the average guy will back off. I think most guys will back off, even if he's accustomed to or has had this kind of interaction with one or more previous partners, I'm assuming he's not going to hop straight into the rape games. Although I think when women play these sorts of games, they add a bit of fuel to the types of men who are already looking to justify poor sexual conduct, I place the accountability of rape solely on the rapist.

Which is one of the reasons I, personally, need enthusiastic consent. I don't want to even accidentally rape somebody. That would be greatly harmful to me psychologically/emotionally.

[–]CrestfallenWolf0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Being told all your life that no can mean yes wouldn't sway the romantic interactions od young males... OK 😂

Edit: of

[–]choseyourpoison1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Ah, yes. The old "Point and Laugh" technique. Great for when you can't quite articulate your position and haven't yet learned to cope with an opposing view.

[–]CrestfallenWolf0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't "cope" with strawmen. I didn't say OP's wife is going to get your raped. But her type will encourage sexually aggressive men to put you and many other women in uncomfortable situations of rebuffing someone who has has life long success with No means push harder till she says yes. Doesn't sound fun.

If your not willing to even read my point then of course I'm just going to point a laugh. What else is there to do when have articulated my position and this is the consistent response I get. It's even funnier that this is proving my underlaying assertion that women are the only ones who can curve this issue if they even want to. When ever I say even the smallest thing is "OMG rapists are responsible for rape! WtF!" Well no shit, I never said otherwise so why is it constantly brought up. Is it to keep the status quo of aggressive men getting sex. Is it to ignore what I see as a problem because others don't see sexual aggression as a problem. Or some other reason. All I know is that the canned responses amuse me.

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (36 children) | Copy Link

Im gonna call outlier here. The vast bulk of what ive read and heard from women reinforces the “no means no” view

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. I'm a hardcore masochist, but I never say "no" or "stop", even when I have a safe word in place.

The one time a guy ignored my "no" and "stop" it was genuinely terrifying and not sexy in the least.

I think the closest I've come to saying no is saying, "I don't really feel like having sex" and my husband knows that's not a hard no, it just means I don't feel like it, but if he really wants to it's fine, but don't wait for me to cum / expect me to be enthusiastic because it's probably not going to happen. We've been married for 7 years so it's a shortcut.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

So I take it you aren’t a proponent of the “enthusiastic consent” concept?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

For a first encounter, I think it makes sense. You're strangers at that point, right? So you want to be extra sure.

Once you're married, like you and I, and you know the person a little better, then you can decide on what level of consent is necessary in your relationship together.

With your wife, apparently no means yes, and in my relationship, meh means yes.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your husband's a lucky dude

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I suppose if we flip the script, I can’t really imagine how bad it could get if she genuinely misinterpreted my real no for a “ravish me” no. I would probably at worst be mildly annoyed. I suppose the stakes aren’t super high if she thinks anything like I do. But people are super sensitive about this. People are saying “it is so dangerous what she is doing because what if you can’t distinguish a real no for a play no later on and have no safe word!?” First of all I think I can tell when she is enjoying herself and when she isn’t. Second of all, I really can’t imagine her having any worse feeling than mild annoyance if those wires were ever crossed accidentally. With me anyways. She would know it was an accident as I have ZERO interest in fucking her when she isn’t into it. I will turn down sex if I am ragingly horny and I sense she is doing it as a favor kind of thing. I hate “duty sex”

[–]TheBookOfSeilAn ounce of Snu Snu is worth a pound of cure13 points14 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

That's why it's confusing. Women mean "no" unless they don't. It's not really possible to tell unless you go past a certain point, and sometimes not even then.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me37 points38 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

So you solve the problem by NO always meaning NO and any woman who has a problem with this can learn to use her words.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yep, this is the way to handle women like this. Don’t play her games.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed.

No means no, you violate it: Congratulations, you're a fucking rapist.
No means yes, you violate it: You have some hot sex.
No means yes, you don't violate it: You miss out on some hot sex.
No means no, you don't violate it: You're a decent human being.

[–]choseyourpoison2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, completely.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (12 children) | Copy Link

Wow, thanks, you cured the entire female species!

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse13 points14 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

No he didn't, what he did was say that you can't please all women, so some women just have to fuck off. We men have allowed women to push mixed signals for eons, yelling "spergy!" in some way or another at men who groused about not knowing what she really meant. Now #MeToo and the No Means No movement have shown us the folly of putting up with mixed signals. It's time for men to know and respect women's boundaries, and it's time for women to grow up and set those boundaries clearly and stop playing silly games.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Especially since women have DEMANDED (and to be fair, reasonably so) that we respect those boundaries.

To then turn around and say "UNLESS".... n'uh uh, FUCK THAT.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Amen to that.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

and it's time for women to grow up and set those boundaries clearly and stop playing silly games.

Keep dreaming.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

If men just stopped playing these women's games it would end in a generation.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Okay so those women can die as cat ladies if they can't grow up.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fucking. Hell. Yes.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So you solve the problem by NO always meaning NO and any woman who has a problem with this can learn to use her words.

Agree.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Having sex with anyone under the influence of drugs or alcohol makes you a RAPEY RAPE RAPIST! Well except ME, LOL. I like having a couple of glasses of WINE or smoking a few puffs off a weed cigarette before getting busy. Ignore everything I said when I want you to. No I'm not going to tell you when I want you do. I'm just going to go from 0 to ragebitch and tell everyone you're a rapist if you get it wrong."

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What does he do when they're married and it's a fantasy of hers she wants fulfilled?

[–]IndigoPillNo Pill Woman6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Roleplay comes after consent, it's a crafted fantasy.

Consent is not roleplay, it's either given or not.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

what ive read and heard

No firsthand experiences there?

the “no means no” view

So you're just not going to acknowledge being playful, or hard to get? Are you not aware that people act this way?

I'm not talking about with total strangers, but people who know each other well, and are comfortable with each other.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No firsthand experiences there?

No, because i stop at “no”

If ops gf has that kink, they can work something out, but Im sure you can see how this might result in actual non consent if applied to someone who doesnt have said kink.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, because i stop at “no”

So in your entire life, you've never observed any human being, under any circumstances, to say one thing, and mean another? Are you just totally unaware of this entire aspect of human communication? Or do you acknowledge that it exists, but somehow think that it's specifically can't apply to anything sexual, even between consenting adults?

If ops gf has that kink, they can work something out, but Im sure you can see how this might result in actual non consent if applied to someone who doesnt have said kink.

But we're not talking about people who don't have the kink. We're arguing to establish that the phenomenon exists, i.e. that there exist some women who sometimes say "No" to a sexual advance when they actually mean "Yes".

[–]decoy88Black Male in London5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but unless you’re certain - and you can’t be without prior discussion, with a safe word in place (be smart kids) - then you can’t be raping women on the off chance she’s into it

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So in your entire life, you've never observed any human being, under any circumstances, to say one thing, and mean another?

I think what they're saying is that it's irrelevant. Once she says no, the man who doesn't want to risk punishment won't take a chance at her actually meaning "maybe."

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, not all women do this, but all men have experienced this doublespeak from women with regards to sexuality or romance at some point.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's what you get for listening to women

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

> She was like “if I told you, it wouldn’t be hot that you did it, you would just be doing what I told you to do.”

This is the reason why women like her have poor communication skills.

[–]87AudreyHorne0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I get how this mentality can make sense with a lot of things, but his wife's example doesn't because she is clearly saying no to something..

[–]shoup88Report me bitch56 points57 points  (90 children) | Copy Link

While there’s something to be said about women playing hard to get, the fact that your wife wants you to literally rape her is far from the norm.

Edit: let me rephrase: it is not the norm that a woman who really truly wants her husband to fulfil her rape fantasy will never mention it to him. If it’s something she needs to be satisfied in their sex life, she will bring it up (and thus it is not actual rape, as described by OP, where the man believes the woman does not want it and fucks her anyways).

[–]Ercole_ʇlɐʍɐ7 points8 points  (47 children) | Copy Link

It's actually so normal that a guy should never even ask for sex. You just do it and don't be too autistic to guage whether she's into it or not.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch25 points26 points  (44 children) | Copy Link

If she straight up tells you no, like OP’s wife, it’s a good time to take pause and not “just do it”.

Don’t be autistic is a given.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (43 children) | Copy Link

If she straight up tells you no, like OP’s wife, it’s a good time to take pause and not “just do it”.

I agree with you. But what does a husband do when they discover that she has a rape fantasy that she will not discuss?

He wants to please her and give her what she wants. If he stops at 'no', which is the right thing to do, he fucks up by not fulfilling a desire she has. This was not a fantasy that would stay one. She actually wanted to be ahem 'molested in her anus' by her husband.

So he has to risk being a rapist just to finally satisfy her. It should be that women communicate clearly but, according to women, straightforward communication just isn't fun. That's what leads to people not knowing how to approach consent and having to go about getting consent in a round about way. For example: "should I get a condom?" instead of "do you want to have sex with me?". And no one's really telling women they're contributing to the kind of confusion that can frustrate their partners or even send someone to jail.

Don’t be autistic is a given.

What do autistic men do then? This is like saying don't be short/black/poor if you want to be attractive.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch12 points13 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

I agree that women need to take ownership over their sexual satisfaction, including the fulfillment of specific fantasies. This is especially important for couples without an established connection.

Consent isn’t really a big issue for married couples though. If he tried to push past her boundaries, I’d be more worried about him being in the doghouse than being pulled in on rape charges.

When it comes to random women, don’t play their games. If she says no, stop. If she didn’t mean it, make her do something about it.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me7 points8 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I’d be more worried about him being in the doghouse than being pulled in on rape charges.

Has it ever occurred to you feminists that the bulk of men actually hate the whole concept of rape and genuinely don't want to hurt women?

[–]shoup88Report me bitch10 points11 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Rapists are a minority, that’s right.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

The bigger problem is that "grey area" where because women like to play games and men are taught that "no means keep going", and that things like "getting her nice and drunk, it works" are still being bandied around a lot of nebulous and corner case rapes happen.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Sex under the influence is really not a big deal in a marriage.

[–]CrestfallenWolf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do you keep referencing "in marrage" as a defence for rape? Have marital rape laws been abolished? Better call the many female focused law firms, out reach centers and police that help women enforce marital rape laws to tell them "drug induced rape in marriage isn't a big deal".

No means no weather in marriage or not and weather she means it or not. Maybe she doesn't mean it, till she talks to a divorce lawyers office, now it was a real no.

[–]OHG10 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why are you referencing marriage?

All the rapes you read about that rp defends are college aged idiots who have no clue what a woman wants.

Thats why i say throw the book at those retards. Give em a few black cocks in the ass and maybe theyll smarten up

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Men are taught "No is no". Through experience, we learn that "No means keep going, except in certain cases when she really means no, or does she, who the fuck really knows".

[–]Reed_49830 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think it's at least some degree posters (red pillers or however you want to call them) giving examples of toxic behaviour by some women and arguing "look, this is how bad [most] women act".

Otherwise you will have a lot of differing opinions on how common this behaviour is and no side will deviate from their opinion.

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He called you a feminist but you aren't one. (At least one would hope).

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm pretty anti-feminist and I didn't see anything in that statement that was too feminazi. In fact, it seemed like something a quite normal, average woman would say (or dude maybe).

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Has it ever occurred to you feminists that the bulk of men actually hate the whole concept of rape and genuinely don't want to hurt women?

Feminists believe this. Otherwise they all would have set sail for feminist island decades ago.

[–]booksoverboyfriends0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminist here but agree with you. I’m sitting here reading these posts thinking there’s no way my husband would get off on having to “force himself” on me unless I gave him cues that I’m into it and then it’s not exactly acting out a rape, is it?

Anyway, if both parties are into it, then have an agreed upon safe word so it’s all cool.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Consent isn’t really a big issue for married couples though.

In a healthy relationship, consent isn't a problem. But marital rape is a thing though. Even when they're married, men aren't going to think it's open season even if she says no. They've been conditioned to believe women don't want it by default and thus he has to convince her, get consent and then he gets to have sex. In reality there's a lot more playfulness. It's not as cut and dry. One moment you're both exhausted, the next you're tearing each other's clothes off.

When it comes to random women, don’t play their games. If she says no, stop. If she didn’t mean it, make her do something about it.

Sound advice, if a little out of touch with reality. A woman could throw out a playful no and he'd go home with nothing to show for it, but better safe than sorry.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You can’t teach nuance to the people on this sub who don’t understand it. If a guy can tell a playful no from a serious no, of course they should act accordingly.

But most men on the sub seem to have no idea how other people communicate. For those men, better safe than sorry. The ones who don’t understand flirtation and fear a rape charge every time a woman wrinkles her nose at them.

Those guys should use precaution for their own peace of mind.

Let’s be honest, we’re not usually talking about normal men in this sub.

[–]Reed_49830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A woman who wants her husband to "just know" she is into rape play and is frustrated because he can't read her mind is acting in a fucking toxic way. Let's not let get that lost.

[–]Ercole_ʇlɐʍɐ2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But what does a husband do when they discover that she has a rape fantasy that she will not discuss?

He never looks at her uncle the same way again.

What do autistic men do then?

I didn't mean it literally. If you're actually autistic, meet a cute chubby girl on tge internet who's impressed by your Dark Souls videos and try not to rape her.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me1 point2 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

according to women, straightforward communication just isn't fun.

Double standards and mind games. And relatives worry that I'm missing out on all this shit.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man3 points4 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

I think they're just worried you'll die a virgin. They don't want that for you. No, but seriously, sex is fun and worth it; just don't be a guy that they want to fuck over, be the guy that can grab them by the pussy and they enjoy it.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me1 point2 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

I have had sex, thanks. I know what's involved.

Risk/Reward ratio ain't worth it.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man3 points4 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

There is nothing involved. I've been with many women (last track around 70), and have never once had any issues involving husbands trying to beat my ass, the military trying to get me in trouble for fucking married women (against the law in the US military), rape accusation, unwanted pregnancies, etc. The only guys that have a risk are the dudes that chicks usually don't want to fuck anyway. I've literally never got in any trouble or had any problems fucking.

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Christ dude I'm at 30 something and just 27. Whats your secret? How tall are you?

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm just under 6ft. Close enough that I just say 6ft. Before my ex wife, I was at 12 women at 22. Married 10 years without cheating, found TRP and asked for a divorce. So, from 32-35 (I'm 35 atm), I've slept with something like 60-70 women (or possibly more, I stopped counting).

To be honest, my secret was learning game. I read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "When I say No I feel Guilty" and "The Game" and start practicing game and going out and shit.

[–]Reed_49830 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

How tall are you?

Lmao there is something seriously wrong if that's the first question you gotta ask.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me-1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I don't enjoy sex enough to chase it.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Rule #1, hit the gym. It'll raise your testosterone to the point where you'll start to enjoy sex.

[–]OHG10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lolol incel alert!

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Autistic men are just fucked. That's the shitty thing about autism. Try your best to read and learn social queues, get help from therapists or whatever. I have a friend with Aspergers, but he's actually turned out quite well. He's short, not too attractive, and maybe a virgin, but he's got a ton of friends and skilled at fucking everything. I know it might take him a while, but he'll find a girl that will enjoy his many talents.

When you're short, you can get buff (my mexican buddy does this and slays), being black shouldn't be an issue... what?, and poor people still get laid, just typically by other poor people. And all of these things can be supplemented by good game (social interaction). Good game is just something that autistic people aren't likely to acquire.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What do autistic men do then? This is like saying don't be short/black/poor if you want to be attractive.

Isn't that basically society though? "Don't be autistic". Yeah, okay, way to trivialize what's actually a condition.

As for "don't be poor" or "don't be black", well that sort of thing disgusts me. If that's what you want to tell people, don't expect me to play your games either.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But I actually am borderline autistic. And it is incurable. That is like telling someone “don’t be old if you don’t want to get sick.

[–]OHG10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You do realize how stupid this sounds right?

Most rp men cant tell the difference between stop this is rape and 'stop' i actually want to fuck.

[–]Salty-Bastard5 points6 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

What? Who better to fulfill your rape fantasy than your husband.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch33 points34 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

Her husband is the perfect person to fulfil her fantasy.

But a woman secretly wanting her husband to physically overpower her by all appearances against her will while she says no is not the norm.

Even for women who do have that fantasy, there’s usually some sort of discussion beforehand. Like hey, I have this fantasy, can we try it out, here’s what I’m thinking.

[–]vezokpiraka7 points8 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

physically overpower her by all appearances against her will while she says no is not the norm.

Buddy, you're completely wrong on this account, but believe what you want.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch18 points19 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Women’s rape fantasies are carefully curated. They are envisioning specific things happening a specific way. That involves some discussion beforehand.

Contrary to what some men may believe, the vast majority of women with rape fantasies do not actually want to be raped in real life. It’s about being lusted after to the point where the man can’t control himself.

[–]krypticNexus3 points4 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Except her wanting her husband to "rape" her is not actually rape. And in this context it is very normal for women to have these kinds of consensual "rape" fantasies.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch17 points18 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Yes, the fantasies are very normal. But expecting your husband to carry them out with zero communication or explanation beforehand is not.

[–]reluctantly_red3 points4 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

zero communication or explanation beforehand is not.

For the fantasy to actually work her guy has to be socially aware enough to be able to pull it off without verbal communication.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch11 points12 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Like without ever even mentioning that she’d be into it?

I’m sorry, I just don’t think so.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She did mention she had a rape fetish to me before.

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not all communication is verbal. A husband can certainly understand what his wife wants without having to verbally discuss it.

[–]reluctantly_red-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Not all communication is verbal. A husband can certainly understand what his wife wants without having to verbally discuss it.

[–]Daniel07394 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

“Socially aware” fuck that bullshit! What you want is for people to be able to read minds, that’s fucking delusional.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You must be new to this whole "woman" thing.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Well, I think there is probably some middle ground between "just read my mind" and directing the scene like a movie director. I've had lovers who were into roleplay stuff, and generally they described what they had in mind ahead of time, then we'd play out the script later. So, in the moment, it appeared spontaneous. (Incidentally I've been told I'm a bad actress, lol.)

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Someone gets it. :)

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nope, not how fantasies usually work bud. That's why their called fantasies, it's something you keep in your head and don't tell anyone. Your girl might have a shit on my chest fantasy, what's the social cue for that? I've had plenty of girls that have wanted their rape fantasies fulfilled by me. Oftentimes it'll be while they're sleeping or in the shower or something. A rape fantasy is typically a /r/unexpectedsex fantasy. And having a safe word before that is perfect. Because when you do go into it and if they are frightened to the point they want you to stop (or even confused), they can use the word and, coincidentally enough, feel safe.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah this is dumb

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hers isn’t super specific. We talked about her rape fantasy in the past. I will ask for specifics and she will be like “well whatever you want, otherwise it wouldn’t be a real rape fantasy, it would just be you doing what I told you to do!”

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

She did mention to me before that she had a rape fantasy that she didn’t want to carry out the “safe way” with safe words because she felt it ruined the immersion of the experience. So I had a hunch, but she made it known it was on me to make it happen, that she would never ask be because the act of her asking me would ruin it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But a woman secretly wanting her husband to physically overpower her by all appearances against her will while she says no is not the norm

This is extremely common IME. Every woman I've dated has wanted something like this. Though yes, they do communicate about it in some fashion.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ve clarified this several times over in this thread. It is not the fantasy that’s abnormal, it’s the utter lack of any communication about it.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

She did tell me about her rape fantasy but every time I tried to initiate it as a thing, with safewords and stuff the way you are supposed to, she would be like, this feels too fake, just do it and you will know if I am enjoying myself or not. Turns out I can tell the difference between her enjoying it or not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Chad

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Well it isn’t rape if that is what she wants to happen, is it?

Also, to fill you in on more details that are relevant to your comment, she did mention a rape fantasy to me early on, but then said “it is the kind of thing that only works in my head, I wouldn’t want to actually play it out” I see lots of mentions of “safe words” i told her we would need one, she said, don’t be silly, just do what you want, and you will know if you are crossing a boundary” and she was right, I was able to tell from her body language that everything I was doing was turning her on more and more. So I knew what she wanted, but it took me a long time of knowing her to figure that out, and she wouldn’t come right out and tell me.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If your wife tells you she has a rape fantasy, it shouldn’t be a controversial bomb when she later confirms that she has a rape fantasy lol.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It is a bomb with regard to the “no means no” movement.

And this isn’t the first time this has happened to me either.

My wife has even said the words “no doesn’t mean no, you know” when I have said I was frustrated about being shut down for sex too much. That is controversial. Because if women tell us this or behave like that, how can we take the “no means no” movement literally? I mean, I am sure with those specific women who say that, nonprobably means no, but how are men who are conditioned through women’s behaviors to learn that no sometimes means “take me”, supposed to differentiate?

Remember, most men are borderline Aspergers. There is a theory that Aspergers and autism is simply an extremely male brain, which is why so few women have it. And it is a popular theory. So we would all love a “no means no” or even “enthusiastic consent” culture. But instead we have to struggle with this! Of course mistakes are made. Women forget they are dealing with men, not women.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The push for affirmative consent has never been about husbands and wives. It’s about one night stands and brand new couples.

[–]CrestfallenWolf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not controversial or strange or rare, it's ammunition. I hope, for your sake, you never piss her off enough to land on the wrong side of the divorce coin flip.

[–]Zippo-Cat1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Actually it's very normal for women to want to be "raped" by men they would have willingly fucked.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just edited my comment to make myself more clear. I agree that rape fantasies are very common.

I do not think it’s common for a woman to never bring it up, if it’s something she truly needs to be satisfied in her sex life. If it is really that integral to her happiness, I think she will at the very least hint at it rather than passively wait for him to just physically overpower her.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually it's very normal for women to want to be "raped" by men they would have willingly fucked.

Normal. Not common.

And the word is 'ravished' not 'raped'.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

She did tell me she has a rape fantasy actually. But then when I go to set it up, she will get uncomfortable and say it feels too fake. We also had this relationship where I friendzoned myself years back. I made my feeling clear to her back then, but didn’t get anything reciprocated. I later asked her why. And her answer was “if you had just taken me you could have had me. You weren’t aggressive enough”

[–]Original_Username719 points20 points  (37 children) | Copy Link

"Marital rape" is now a crime in most states in the U.S. If she wants to slam-dunk divorce you one day, she can take everything and ensure you can do nothing about it by simply deciding one day that her 'no' actually meant no, and tell the cops you had sex with her against her will. Men are legally not allowed to "take" women anymore (even if most of them secretly love this), even their wives. I'd be very careful if I was you.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch10 points11 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

If she really wanted to do that, it doesn’t matter whether they roleplayed rape or not. She could just lie and say whatever she wants.

The only way it makes any difference is if they like filmed it and she presented it as video evidence or something. Otherwise nobody has any way of knowing whether she said no or yes or if they even had sex.

[–]RenzololPurple Pill Man6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Nobody needs to know. A woman saying so is more than enough evidence.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

For what? Conviction of a crime?

[–]CrestfallenWolf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ruin your reputation and career, get a more favorable divorce settlement, make sure you never see your kids again, lose friends and family.

For a criminal conviction if she says in person. Oh baby it would be hot to role play during sex, then gets some text messages or emails of you threatening to rape her... Ya...

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

Or she shows up to a hospital and demands pictures be taken of her raw snapper and DNA evidence be swabbed. You'll pay to have it processed, so the results can be handed to your divorce lawyer.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch2 points3 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Life isn’t really like a shitty erotic thriller starring Sharon Stone lol.

Maybe best you went your own way just in case.

You know, better safe than sorry.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

Oh believe me, I went my own way decades ago even before this society went completely to shit.

I thank God daily my sex education was basically watching terrifying videos of dozens of Grim Reapers bowling over dozens of crying children at a time with the voice over basically going EVERYONE WILL GET AIDS AND DIE.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch2 points3 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

That’s great, it’s always nice to hear someone who appreciates their upbringing.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

For the kids who won't get the reference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ9f378T49E

South Park was written by two Gen Xers, and accurately depicted the result in Gen X girls.

http://southpark.cc.com/clips/152849/we-dont-want-your-aids

[–]shoup88Report me bitch0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Are you actually over 35 years old?

I assumed you were max 21.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Try over 50.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

Oh wow, much older than I thought.

Have you ever been in a relationship?

[–]Original_Username70 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

She could just lie and say whatever she wants.

Yep, one of the only reasons to still get married is now gone as well, zero protection.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m sorry, at what point in history was lying impossible? When did wives lying become a new invention?

[–]Original_Username70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lying has always been possible. The idea of marital rape was considered an oxymoron until the last 50 years or so in the West, as sexual relations with your spouse was called your "spousely duty", based on 1 Corinthians 7:3-5. Until recently, no spouse had the power to get their other spouse locked up for no evidence but their own claim ("um, it wasn't sex, it was actually rape, and me merely saying so after the fact makes it true").

[–]Zippo-Cat5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure OP found the unicorn who would never, ever do such a thing to him

[–]idhavetocharge-1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Where is the statistic for that? Don't imply the majority of women will do this without some evidence to back that up.

[–]CrestfallenWolf0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

"I nEEd StAtS!"

You need states to tell you Russian roulette is dumb with 5 barrels and not dumb with 15? No my dude. Still dumb to risk it.

[–]idhavetocharge0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Show me where its truly 'dangerous' to have kinky sex with the person you are married to.

You make a lot of wild claims. Do you also never leave the house? Don't drive a car you might get in an accident. Don't put gas in it, the gas station might catch on fire and blow up.

Back up your claims.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Hell, she could even tell you no means yes, and then argue in court you didn't stop at no.

Free stuff? Cash and prizes? Yes please, what was the strategy again? "Tell him no means yes, and then slam-dunk and get the house."

[–]CrestfallenWolf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't forget the kids.

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (35 children) | Copy Link

The gym experience was not synonymous with your wife's experience. If a guy started taking my plates off right after my first set just because he "knew" in his mind how long my set would be I would immediately report. And I'm no fucking snitch. That's just rude.

Also don't be a dependent ass pussy on a single machine at the gym. Learn versatility.

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Maybe the team of two shouldn’t have been taking the only two squat racks...but also just taking their plates off is rude

[–]decoy88Black Male in London10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah everyone was an asshole in this

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (23 children) | Copy Link

Also don't be a dependent ass pussy on a single machine at the gym. Learn versatility.

Certain machines in the gym are very high-value. The whole routine for the day could be built around benching or squatting, you can't just "get around" your staple lifts.

If these bitches were really hogging the only one, fuck them, take their shit off.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Then use a Smith machine, or free weights or functional plyometrics to warm up and politely ask to work in. I've never seen anybody say no to being able to work in if they approach respectfully. Given his self admitted autism and impatience I can guess his initial approach was equally shity. Remember he assumed those women were going to hoard the rack. If they were powerlifters their set would have been short. He waited a grand total of 3 minutes to be an asshole.

Also its ok to quietly inform a gym manager that valuable equipment is being hoarded. People who run gyms generally want you to have a good experience.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me14 points15 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Smith machines are bullshit and will fuck your lower back and knees, as well as being only usable by and for weak-ass morons who like putting four plates on and benching 195 but calling it 225. Bonus points for the infamous two man lift where one guy's upright rowing half of it going ITS ALL YOU BRO

[–]auto-xkcd374 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

weak ass-morons


Bleep-bloop, I'm a bot. This comment was inspired by xkcd#37

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

infamous two man lift

Yeah this one's pretty fucking funny.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol I also hate Smith machine but it's an option for lighter weight superset or warm up. Sometimes you gotta work w what you got in a busy gym. I'll say it again one should maintain some versatility when it comes to lifting and fitness. This is not a male or female argument it's just practical.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I do Smith machines because my knees are already fucked from the Marine Corps. It's significantly more stable and less painful on my knees than just a normal squat rack. It's only going to fuck your back and knees more if you don't go at it as if it was a normal squat rack, form is important, always.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wrong. Simple biomechanics shows why that's wrong. First look up "shearing forces" and realize it's the one kind of force human joints are terrible with.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just looked up shearing forces, which is something most people already no and how tf does that apply to a smith machine?

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

and politely ask to work in.

He did. And they should've done the socially acceptable thing: say yes.

I've never seen anybody say no to being able to work in if they approach respectfully.

So are you saying that OP is misrepresenting what happened?

[–]belletaco1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He did. And they should've done the socially acceptable thing: say yes.

the socially acceptable thing in this situation would be letting the women have 10 mins or so on the machine to get their stuff done before you shove in. gyms are first come, first serve, that's the general rule.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Who knows how polite he really was. But there are a lot of things that he could have done besides just taking her weights off immediately after her first set. Seriously, tell someone in charge. Also, 26 years of gym experience, see all kinds of behaviors. Even OP admit it was the first time he was denied ability to work in.

[–]AhornEiche0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I totally see where you are coming from. My gut reaction was "fuck, that's a bit rude". But as powerlifter it is an absolute no go to not let someone into your sets. If you break this codex you can't expect other people to behave. Be an arse and the world will be an arse towards you.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I am a powerlifter. And I have never said no to anyone asking to work in. Rest time on squats in powerlifting is 5 mins and up. Why would I say no? Especially in a gym with only two squat racks and I am just starting. If you tell a powerlifter they can’t squat for an hour you are telling them they can’t work out today.

[–]AhornEiche0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

100% agreed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Just saying, that if it is, in fact accurate, I'd rather have them reprimanded by gym staff, way more effective for humiliating them and getting them to comply.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don’t call mommy and daddy when I have disputes. I deal with them peer to peer.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So OP, what ended up happening after you took her weights off? Did they they then let you work in? If so, then your approach was effective and I'm going down a rabbit hole for no good reason. Perhaps I'm projecting my own issues, I hate interacting with men I don't know at the gym in general.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Then use a Smith machine, or free weights

Did you not know a barbell squat is a free-weight exercise?

or functional plyometrics

This is laughable as a replacement for a squat

By the way, saying “functional” was a tell that you don’t know what training is.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Meh, it was redundant, guilty. And yes, there are free weight alternatives, dumbbells, etc, at least to get warmed up and do some recon on just how long these girls were taking.

Damn, drunk redditing set to read only from now on for me.

[–]Nobodykers3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are wonderful

[–]Salty-Bastard3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why would two friends take both squat racks? That just seems like an asshole power move.

[–]concacanca2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One for those bar only lifts and another for insta selfies if my gym is anything to go by

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's just as rude to monopolise the squat racks for an hour. Some gyms have signs up to say you're not allowed to use equipment like treadmills for more than 30 minutes. Taking an hour on a squat rack is just shitty.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That's just rude.

What’s rude is camping in a rack for an hour while refusing anyone to work in.

Also don't be a dependent ass pussy on a single machine at the gym. Learn versatility.

What’s your plan to squat without a squat rack? (which I have never heard called a “machine”, I hasten to add)

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You could do free weights and do squats with them but you're limited to what your hands and arms can hold :/

But yes, they shouldn't be blocking people from accessing equipment for an hour. That's selfish.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You could do free weights and do squats with them

Yes, it's called putting a barbell on your back, which is what OP wanted to do, thereby necessitating the squat rack.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly, not optimal but an option to get the workout started.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ugh, constant internet debate ver lifting terms, technique, classifications. Rack is a simple Machine/apparatus/structure, whatever. Quit nitpicking.

Clearly those girls suck if they were hogging the rack for an hour, universal gym etiquette. But we don't know that was the case because he didn't wait beyond their first set to jump in.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ugh, constant internet debate ver lifting terms, technique, classifications. Rack is a simple Machine/apparatus/structure, whatever

I'm just a native speaker of English who doesn't refer to a rack as "a machine". It could be a coat rack or a hat rack. They are not machines to me.

I have some paper clips on my desk. Are those "machines" to you?

But we don't know that was the case because he didn't wait beyond their first set to jump in.

Good on him for not waiting.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are right. They aren’t synonymous. What they have in common, however, is that sometimes women like to say no to men just for the sake of it.

In powerlifting, there is no substitute for the squat, and you need to do it in a power rack. There is a reason I gained 40 pounds of muscle in just over a year with this program, which is the first program I have followed religiously for over a year that has changed my body in any significant way: and that is consistency, and probably squats. I do the same workouts, eat the same things, even if I am travelling. You could report me to the gym managers if you wanted, but I am not paying a 20 dollar drop in fee to skip squats. When I travel for work, I make sure to book my hotel near a gym that has a squat rack so I don’t have to skip squats.

Also, it isn’t ok to monopolize the squat rack because rest times are long and there is no substitute for squats. Everyone knows this, which is why nobody has ever said no to the question “can I work in?” Unless they have one set left only.

[–]CosmicBioHazard17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My cheating ex-wife said that I had no sex drive and when I challenged her on it, she said that I shouldn’t have taken no for an answer. I politely informed her that that’s highly illegal and felt just a little less bad about what happened since she’d just confirmed that she was a lunatic.

[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She said to me “Maybe they thought you were trying to hit on them. Also, women like saying no to men. Sometimes just for the sake of it. Even if they don’t actually mean no. I did that myself just today.”

She tells me this again and again in sex as well. When I will complain that it has been too long since we have had sex, she will get just as frustrated as me, saying “no doesn’t always mean no you idiot! Sometimes I need you to just take me even though I say no, I am just testing how bad you want me!”

Honestly, that's just childish behavior. There is no other way to put it.

[–]zayelionMale, Only Attracts Lesbians4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This kink takes a very long series of signals to execute that depend on trust and communication. Congratulations on reaching a new deeper connection with your lady.

[–]CrestfallenWolf0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That entire post was about how is wife wasn't and still isn't clearly communicating...

[–]zayelionMale, Only Attracts Lesbians1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well now he knows the difference between "know, no, and nuu". That is a step.

[–]Talono3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your wife needs to learn about safe words.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

louis ck told a marvelous line about this (about the girls who say no but “don’t really mean it”) he said SO YOU WANT ME TO RAPE YOU BY THE OFF CHANCE THAT YOU MIGHT LIKE IT?

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"That'll work in court".

[–]TwentyX42 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was thinking about the same bit. Here's the video: https://youtu.be/b4hNaFkbZYU

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (224 children) | Copy Link

In a sexual context, "no" can sometimes mean "try harder" or "stop asking permission, you pussy".

Your wife wanting you to take charge sexually has nothing to do with strange women at the gym not wanting you to get in their way.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me26 points27 points  (164 children) | Copy Link

No, in a sexual context, no means no. It always means no.

[–]Bananurin3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

"No" can be playful. Sometimes I defiantly say no when my bf is trying to sexually work me up and he knows I don't mean it. It's like non verbally saying "no! I will not succumb to this teasing! You can't make me! Pft! This isn't affecting me in the slightest" all the while it visibly is and he has the most smug look on his face. It's just a playful thing. He knows when I REALLY mean no though. When I don't want it, I tell him. Boom, no more advancements. He understood body language and other cues.

It's a mix of understanding each others personalities during sex and the fact that words and phrases can have many meanings in many contexts. People with a decent level of understanding about humans generally understand this behavior. And of course, there's more caution used when with strangers but that's another conversation.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

When I don't want it, I tell him

"No" can be playful. Sometimes I defiantly say no when my bf is trying to sexually work me up

Jesus, give me strength.

[–]Bananurin0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You really don't understand human interaction, especially between two adults in a LTR.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

And you don't understand that you're one false move away from that going up in flames.

[–]Bananurin0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not really. I actually trust the man in my life, and he trusts me.

Sarcasm, idioms, playful defiance, exaggerations, etc. The English language is full of ways to say things that aren't meant to be taken literally. I'm not claiming I speak for people. I just don't think that we need to take words literally all the time. Maybe this playful stuff between my S/O is weird to you, but I don't I'm the only one. Learning this stuff comes with a certain understanding of human interaction and is understood even further when trust is established in a relationship where you really know each other.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I actually trust the man in my life, and he trusts me.

Gosh, I've never heard of couples, even long standing ones, having sexual misunderstandings. Weird right?

[–]Bananurin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He'd have to be awfully dense to misread signals when we're both teasing. Hasn't happened yet. If it does, it's as simple as saying a couple words. It's not like he's going to rape me, jesus...

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's like you people are still in cavemen mindset.

[–]Bananurin1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

How is this cave man mentality?

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Society as a whole is still in the caveman mindset. Do you really think we've evolved past that? Look at Homo Sapien brains, nope, still look the same as they did 10k years ago.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (114 children) | Copy Link

According to who?

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me29 points30 points  (112 children) | Copy Link

According to the fucking courts, holy shit.

And society.

"I thought her saying no really meant yes, we had a good sexual relationship!" <-- believed by nobody, ever.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (102 children) | Copy Link

I'm talking about what women mean by no. Sometimes. You're right about the law, and that has nothing to do with my point.

I would never ever ever advise a TRPer/reddit user to try to tease out when no doesn't actually mean no, because they're all social retards and are bound to get it wrong.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse6 points7 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I guess it's the "social retards" who will never catch a sexual assault or marital rape charge. Which gives them quite an advantage over the idiots who take a "no" as a "maybe."

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess it's the "social retards" who will never catch a sexual assault or marital rape charge.

Yep, accurate

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Socially competent men know when a no means maybe. They're not the ones who end up with rape charges. It's the retards who make a woman feel gross who end up in trouble.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Socially competent men know when a no means maybe.

No, they take chances, and sometimes that bites them on the ass.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man-1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Which gives them quite an advantage

Except in the gene pool. Which I guess is a good thing. We need less risk-averse people if we want society to move forward.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Risk aversity seems to work fine for women.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Different risks. They try and use their experiences and social knowledge and risk going out to find a guy that they risk maybe going forward with. Their risk is far more personally life-altering for them. Men's risks usually are more likely to affect society.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Women don't deserve risk-taking men if they're not willing to take the same risks themselves.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

what women mean by no.. “if you want me enough, honey, a simple no wont discourage you from..” yea no i think ill pass thanks

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

How do you have a "Red Flair" and say that type of shit? TRP isn't MGTOW, man. No = shit test, read the sidebar ffs.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

you go ahead and keep smashing those shit tests man

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I will, because that's what RPers do. Not that you'd know.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

damn you got me

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me14 points15 points  (68 children) | Copy Link

How about we don't redefine fucking words.

No means no

Yes means yes

end of fucking story.

Or do you WANT to get to complain all the time about the guy who kept grabbing your tits after you smacked his hands because "faint heart never won fair lady" or other such similar horse shit?

[–]lookingfornpc1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

How about we don't redefine fucking words.

We are well past that point. More so you seem to be skipping out on social nuance here.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (57 children) | Copy Link

Settle down sweetheart. The men we want know exactly what we mean by no, and that's what matters.

If there is ANY doubt in your mind, take no as no. Always. Let the socially competent men play and win these games.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse8 points9 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

the socially competent men

In English that comes out as "suckers."

Let me be clear about this - any woman who says no and doesn't mean it, is a sad and pathetic game not worth winning. Better passed over in favor of actual adult women who know how to use their words properly and honestly.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man-1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

any woman who says no and doesn't mean it, is a sad and pathetic game not worth winning.

And they would say the same about any guy that couldn't pick up on simple cues that have been around forever.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Cues that are always ambiguous and can always at any time be turned into a sexual assault or stalking charge the moment she decides she doesn't like him. Nah, men have the power to put an instant end to this shit simply by letting women like that rot. Male thirst is what keeps us from doing so.

[–]boundarychimpsALL THE COLORS4 points5 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

The men we want know exactly what we mean by no, and that's what matters.

Except for the OP, apparently.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Whom the women here will say "well, he's a spergy autist who should step aside and let a real man ride her."

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

the men we want

No one wants an autist who can't read the vibe

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

And yet, she did.

[–]87AudreyHorne1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

A lot of non autistic people can't read vibes because your vibes are in your head only, and the output sends a different message. I generally think it's decent to clarify miscommunications and not assume that you are the perfectly clear person of the two and the other is an autist for not getting you.

If you don't get that he is not getting you, are you the autist? if you do get it but still don't care to explain, then calling you counterproductive is phrasing it nicely.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't know why they're so mad about this. If "no means no" to them, they're avoiding the rape charge they're scared of, they win. Men who can play these games and win are what? "Stealing" sex they'd never have in the first place if no means no? I don't get why they care so much.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because feminists tell me it's somehow my fault that they keep telling men not to rape, but yet some men KEEP FUCKING RAPING PEOPLE.

I'm the one saying ladies, you're right, no means no, should always mean no - and here come some women going "you can pretty much prove you're cool and not a loser by not taking no for an answer".

[–]MGTOWKapow2 1 points [recovered]  (28 children) | Copy Link

You bet.

And when the socially incompetent one fucks you, don't say you weren't warned.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

I'm 32 years in now and haven't put myself in a position to be fucked by the autist. Thanks for the heads up though.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me7 points8 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Didn't mean "you" personally.

And the next time I hear a feminist wondering why men don't understand that "no means no" I'll explain that that rule only applies to autistic people, we'll see how that one plays out shall we?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Whoopdy damn doo.

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Don't make things personal.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Didn't mean "you" as in 2nd person singular, but the "royal you?" as in "when you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes". I can rephrase if necessary. Any suggestions?

[–]The3liGator4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

That's a good idea, but in reality people who don't listen to you will have more success and women will desire them more. I've avoided this situation my whole life, but that doesn't change the fact that the guys that I know that ignore "nos" have better luck with women, and I don't mean rape. The women want them more afterwards.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Well sure, rape is a thing.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He literally said, "And I don't mean rape".

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your just world objections are adorable

[–]The3liGator0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I've clarified repeatedly that that's exactly not what I meant, but you were in such a rush to strawman that you missed the entire paragraph.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Rape/sexual assault is defined as sexual intercourse/touching without consent.

[–]isweartoofuckingmuch 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

To be fair you just sound retarded saying no when you mean yes. Who does this? They're not social retards because they think women say what they mean. Fix yourselves up

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's called flirting.

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men aren't going to 'rape' their women on the off chance they are into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hNaFkbZYU

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

^^ said by reddit user...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm not a guy trying to figure out the subtleties of women

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I always forget to look at flairs, my bad. But are you implying that only guys on reddit are social retards?

[–]SerpentCypher0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes she was. You'll find a lot of women on PPD like to imply that very thing. Then again, we are on the 'women good, men bad' sub that is PPD.

[–]idhavetocharge0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Im a woman and when I say no I mean no. This is because I am an adult and take responsibility for my actions and my sexuality.

I find that this variety of playing non consent games seems to be largely an American thing. Where women are expected to be virginal and and hint of forwardness is some sort of negative. You cannot tell women that they have to act shy, guys only like inexperienced women, then not expect these sorts of blundering attempts.

[–]lookingfornpc0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Last time I check the courts only cared if you made any vocal mention of wanting to stop. Not necessary saying no.

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Do you live in a courtroom?

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you live in the current year?

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I have no intention of ever being hauled into one.

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Then why live your life as if you live inside one?

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So you don't end up inside one. Funny how that works.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because taking risks in current years gives us no reward.

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

OP's wife has specifically said she doesn't want him to take her no's super literally. Do you think she's entrapping him so that she can drag him into a courtroom? If she's happy with the outcome they can work through any problems. In a previous post about this OP mentions safe words. Sounds like they're somewhat functional adults to me.

The dynamic can very well be as gumnut describes that it means more "convince me" or it can range all the way up to consensual non-consent. Sure, it's certainly not a dynamic you safely generalize to all women and all relationships.

[–]Profligate-Prophet2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, but it took years to get to that point of "communicating", keyword, that no doesnt always mean no. Sure if my wife said no doesnt always mean no I'd be cool with that. But, unfortunately with the legal system the way it is I will probably never have a wife to even get to that point in the first place.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You never heard of a spousal rape charge, have you?

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (33 children) | Copy Link

Incorrect.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me7 points8 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

I think you'll find a judge disagrees there, matey bucko.

Just because women haven't pressed charges yet doesn't mean "when they say no, they really mean yes".

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (24 children) | Copy Link

I think you'll find a judge disagrees there, matey bucko.

I think if you ever go outside and interact with humans, you'll find that sometimes people say things when they actually mean other things. I know this can be very confusing for people with astronomical amounts of autism, but it's just a part of normal human interactions.

Just because women haven't pressed charges yet doesn't mean "when they say no, they really mean yes".

Trying to change my argument to something that doesn't even remotely resemble anything I said. We're off to a good start here. This is exactly how you get people to take you seriously, keep it up!

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me5 points6 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I think if you ever go outside and interact with humans, you'll find that sometimes people say things when they actually mean other things.

And that comes under the whole "don't stick your dick in crazy" rule.

I know this can be very confusing for people with astronomical amounts of autism, but it's just a part of normal human interactions.

You mean the awkward ones where guys are metoo'd and stand there like a deer in the headlights going "but... she never said no... she didn't... .what?" and the women were like "she felt too scared to say no" and "you should have read her psychic brainwaves" or some such shit.

Trying to change my argument to something that doesn't even remotely resemble anything I said. We're off to a good start here. This is exactly how you get people to take you seriously, keep it up!

You literally said no means yes, and anyone who disagrees has autism. Well done, fuckmunch. You're really helping this whole "gender problem" here.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (13 children) | Copy Link

None of the things you've said here make any sense at all.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Louis C.K. apparently got consent from the women he worked with to haul out his pud and start tugging it in front of them.

So they said yes, and then ran off to the metoo people because they really meant no.

You're telling me that I should trust that NO means YES, when YES doesn't even fucking mean YES?

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (11 children) | Copy Link

Louis C.K. apparently got consent from the women he worked with to haul out his pud and start tugging it in front of them.

In what parallel universe do you think that this in any way resembles the situation described in the OP?

You're telling me that I should trust that NO means YES, when YES doesn't even fucking mean YES?

Well you probably shouldn't be making these kinds of calls, because it seems like social cues aren't your strong suit.

Since you don't seem to have understood my argument at all, here it is in simple words:

There are some circumstances in which a woman says "No" and means "Yes".

If you take that to mean "No always means yes", then you're wrong, and I can't help you.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Well you probably shouldn't be making these kinds of calls, because it seems like social cues aren't your strong suit.

NOBODY should be making these kinds of calls.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I think if you ever go outside and interact with humans

Apparently you don't. Because anyone will tell that the idea of consent is up in the air. Men who are not use to female coyness or verbal cues or don't want to be bother with them are not going to take press harder after being told no. Especially if they were likely bombarded with propaganda that the woman's consent is absolute at all times, your're fucked. You may be lucky (for now) but others guys sure weren't. So unless you got a convincing argument that all this meetoo hysteria is just overblown without using anecdotes, many guys are not going to try.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Men who are not use to female coyness or verbal cues or don't want to be bother with them

And that's exactly the point. Because those women don't want men who are not used to those things either. Which is why they use those verbal cues and coyness, to disqualify the men that don't get it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm pretty sure a lot more men would be willing to play along if we didn't have modern hysteria and shitty laws to dampen that.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're still not getting it. Men that aren't willing to play along now, are guys that they don't want to be with. That's why we have hysteria and shit, to separate the men that will from the men that won't.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's a totally stupid way to do that.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Apparently you don't.

Incorrect.

Because anyone will tell that the idea of consent is up in the air.

That's what I said above. Were you trying to say the opposite?

So unless you got a convincing argument that all this meetoo hysteria is just overblown without using anecdotes, many guys are not going to try.

I don't care at all what you do. If you choose to live your life, and make your decision, based on completely incorrect viewpoints. It doesn't affect me at all.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Look, one chick with worse communication skills than me is enough for me to not risk it too much. Sorry, but that bad apple spoils the whole bunch for me, especially if that bad apple has the law on it's side.

[–]87AudreyHorne1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

To be fair, while this is still incredibly stupid way of communicating, the alternative isn't to rape her but to pester her to "prove his passion" or something. If I was OP my issue would not be so much a concern about being called a rapist, but having to play stupid games and jump through hoops to get her to do something we both supposedly want to do anyway.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Why not both?

Do you not see the problem with "only simps and autists take no for an answer, a real, deserving man who will get the sex he deserves will keep going"?

[–]87AudreyHorne0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I see a huge problem with it. And yes I've seen people say that if you persuade someone to have sex with you by bugging them about it (so no physical force) it is stil coercion and rape/y. Im just saying, its probably not like he will get confused into raping her realistically speakig, but by making it a guessing game she is also making it annoying for him by putting him in a position where he needs to push for it - to either get what she wants anyway, or set himself up for a much rougher rejection in case her no once actually means no (or perhaps she has a whole different word for that?)

What I dont get is how is he not already showing his desire by the simple fact that he is asking for or initiating sex in the first place?

The whole autist thing really bugs me though, coming from someone who claims that words can mean anything a person saying them imagines.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Here's a scenario.

Guy approaches girl. "Hey, babe, wan sum fuk?"

She goes "No", in a disarming manner, because she's not wanting to get confrontational.

He goes "aha, this is a clear case, because I read on the internet that only losers and autistic people who can't get social cues take no for an answer - that what she wants is for me to be ALPHA and TAKE CHARGE."

So he grabs her by the wrists and pushes her against the wall with one hand and starts fumbling for her cunt with the other.

She's TERRIFIED, but isn't going to show it. Oh no, she's thinking, this is it. This is how I get raped. He's already shown to be aggressive, better go along with what he says, because I don't want to end up on a milk carton.

He goes "alright, ALRIGHT. She's digging me, I knew it. I was right, she likes it rough and aggressive, and was making me work for it."

Rape ensues. She doesn't actually ever say no again, because he didn't take that for an answer. She decides instead to pretend to go along with it and inside "goes into her happy place".

She grabs her clothes and leaves as quickly as possible but not too quickly with a plausible excuse. She never goes to the cops because the first question will be "did you fight back". Instead she cries, feels filthy, the next men she meets will have to push through a shit-ton of psychological scar tissue to get in bed with her, and so forth.

Alpha bro becomes a minor celebrity or otherwise becomes publicly known. THat's when she, without revealing her name or maybe she does, "outs" him as a rapist.

And he, not knowing what the fuck she's talking about, disagrees, and a bunch of rapey men go "no means no, unless it means yes, what's your problem, women? You like that huh?"

And feminists go "see? ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS".

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But this isn't how it happens to men that aren't losers or autistic (not my words, yours. I prefer not to use a medical problem as an insult). And even the guys that understand cues and get told no aren't going right in afterward. It's a back and forth game. They say no, you step back, sweeten it up, try again, no, step back, escalate again. Eventually, it'll be either a SOLID no or yes.

Guys that get the cues aren't just going straight to the vag. And only someone with very little understanding of female interaction and shit would write something up like this. It really sounds like a horny teenager fanfic.

[–]87AudreyHorne0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I know what you're referring to because I've also read many opinions that present similar crazy hypothetical situations as rape (e.g. the whole idea that a woman can be in a state of shock and go along with having sex with a guy while actually getting raped). I have a hard time understanding than an adult can't say no and move away, but I agree that it is irritating to on one hand read about requiring not just physical, but enthusiastic verbal consent or else you risk rape, and then on the other hand reading opinions such as that of OP's wife or some other comments here.

I think it's very unlikely in real life to accidentally rape someone this way, what would probably happen if she really means no and he thinks he should push for it is that she'll end up cursing him out and getting pissed, and he'll feel completely rejected and never want to do the stupid game again. It's just really dumb either way and I do fail to understand why you'd say no if you mean yes and then call it a kink.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

similar crazy hypothetical situations as rape

These aren't crazy hypothetical situations. May I introduce Aziz Ansari? From what I understand the feminists are still excoriating him because even though she didn't outright say No, he pushed past when he should have held back.

I have a hard time understanding than an adult can't say no and move away,

I used to play football. I am very large, and very strong. I have intimidated women merely by breathing. I totally understand that some women might not want to risk a broken neck by telling me No. Which is why I don't put myself in situations where that ever comes into play. Even though outside of football, I've never even so much as slapped another human being.

but I agree that it is irritating to on one hand read about requiring not just physical, but enthusiastic verbal consent or else you risk rape

You can get thrown out of universities for not doing this. In some places they're trying to make it the law.

As if women want that. But then again on one hand they're advocating for it legally, but when it comes to sexy times themselves, thrust thrust thrust STILL INTO THIS thrust thrust thrust STILL INTO THIS thrust thrust thrust STILL INTO THIS is something they DO NOT WANT.

I think it's very unlikely in real life to accidentally rape someone this way

You don't understand the import of what metoo did to a lot of men. Whereas women think all men are rapists and cool with that, there were a LOT of men trying to second guess every single sexual thing that happened. Were they evil people for snapping someone's bra strap at the age of 11? That time in that car, where they'd had too much to drink, were there signals he missed?

Imagine what Benny Hill must have felt like when society changed and people pulled up his 1960s blackface gags and went YOU'RE A FUCKING RACIST AND YOU'RE FIRED AND GET OUT. That's how a LOT of men were paranoidly worrying about their lives after metoo. She seemed okay with it at the time, she never said no, but was that enough?

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's crazy how many "no's" have turned into "OH YES!'s" after a little bit of time.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Funnily enough "crazy" is the word I would use.

This is not a game I want to play. Enjoy it in my absence.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Enjoy it in my absence.

Oh, I do and I will.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It didn't seem like it did in Ops story

[–]xanacop11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow. No means no. If she wanted to say "try harder" or "stop asking permission" then fricken say it. Stop redefining words. It's people like that, I swear.

[–]Zippo-Cat8 points9 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

In a sexual context, "no" can sometimes mean "try harder" or "stop asking permission, you pussy".

This is why I always laugh when I hear "no means no" campaign.

It's like, whoever made that, did you EVER spent ANY amount of time with a woman...

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

"no means no" is a thing because some men are unable to read normal human cues.

[–]Supernumiphone6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

some men are unable to read normal human cues.

Absolutely true but there is also a huge amount of variation in how clearly women express themselves, and their own perceptions of how clearly they are sending certain signals. This is why even a perfectly normal, perceptive man can get into trouble with the wrong woman. It's why respecting a "no" even if it seems like she is sending other contrary signals is the only safe thing for a man to do.

If this means that some women end up disappointed, welcome to the modern age.

[–]eye_fuck7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

some men are unable to read normal human cues because some women don't understand how words work

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You've got to love that.

"I'm unclear with words, but your lack of psychic power and mind reading is the real issue here."

[–]AndemanMan2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The important variables here are the man and the context, and the important subtext is safety. It is not always safe for a woman to say no to a man. Men don't tend to appreciate this because women rarely put men in physical danger. I think a man would understand this mindset if, from puberty, he was constantly at risk of violence, maybe if he was the son of a wanted gangster or something. Even then, men react differently to danger due to having the tools to resist it.

Improvements in women's living conditions over the last 200 years or so have modulated their behaviour. Where they were once shut-ins, chained to the kitchen sink and trained to be almost agoraphobic, their increased autonomy over the years has made them behave more 'normally' (i.e more like a classic male). Human society is now composed of man and woman together, battling the world and its elements.

However, women do not have male strength. The only weapon they have at their disposal is deceit. Like in the animal kingdom where predators have teeth and prey have camouflage. A man can wake up in the morning and choose whether to go hunting that day. A woman does not have a choice, she must remain camouflaged at all times or be hunted. Male and female mindsets are shaped according to this principle.

So is it any wonder that when it comes to sexual interactions, men shoot at targets, and women try not to get shot?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What? Why are you telling me this?

[–]AndemanMan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would've posted this as a top level comment but this comment thread had more useful context. Yours is the reply that got me thinking anyhow.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think a man would understand this mindset if, from puberty, he was constantly at risk of violence

You're joking, right? Men are more likely to get assaulted by other men. It's men fighting men in wars. It's men vs. men. Men face violence on a massive scale. Shit, I know almost no women that got in fights in HS (many many many years ago), but I remember getting into at least a few scraps a year. Or my buddy having a gun pulled on him by some thugs outside his house (who stripped him of everything) because he broke up with one of their sisters. Fuck outta here with this men don't face violence shit.

Other than that, I agree with you... we're still cavemen mindset (both men and women) despite being in a completely different environment. We've adapted, but haven't evolved.

[–]AndemanMan0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You're joking, right? Men are more likely to get assaulted by other men.

They take risks and feel responsible for any violence that results. I tell you if we were all women and lived in a temperate environment without predators, we would all be eating berries and falling asleep wherever we found ourselves, we would never take risks. A woman would never look at a cliff and think "I should go bungee jumping off that".

my buddy having a gun pulled on him by some thugs outside his house (who stripped him of everything)

I guess he thought he was pretty smart, getting involved with an unsavoury woman, I bet she was a fine piece of ass. The truth is that there's no such thing as a free lunch and if you break up with a hoe you will face the cons-hoe-quences.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

We would all be eating berries and falling asleep wherever we found ourselves

And worshipping volcanoes as gods and shit with very little else done as far as advancing our civilization (also almost all matriarchal countries have shown).

I guess he thought he was pretty smart, getting involved with an unsavoury woman

He was 16 when that shit happened, how the fuck he supposed to know shit? But to answer your question, no, I think he knew he was and always will be a dumbass.

[–]87AudreyHorne1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A clear verbal expression removes any need for cues, so if you say a clear no then why should another even assume there are any cues? I am not talking about rape accusation concerns here, but if I am with someone and I am not in the mood for something, be it sex or watching a show, I would hope that after making myself clear I won't be pestered because that is very annoying. We have words for these simple things.

And to put myself on the other side, I would not appreciate someone making me read the cues when there is a simple answer to a simple question, if you are not in the mood now then I have other stuff I can do and we can have sex later, we're adults.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, and some of them are here in this very thread.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So gross. This whole thread is like a convention for men who have never been exposed to real life flirting getting together to analyse how flirting works.

[–]87AudreyHorne1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In a sexual context, "no" can sometimes mean "try harder" or "stop asking permission, you pussy".

Well apparently to some people, but imo something is really wrong with them.

Also, he tried to initiate sex, why does she need him to basically ignore her (fake) protest for it to count as taking initiative? He already did. If he didn't want sex with her he wouldn't ask for it in the first place.

[–]SimulatedEnvironment 1 points [recovered]  (39 children) | Copy Link

Nah. No means no and there’s no redefining it to mean: maybe, try harder, etc.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (37 children) | Copy Link

Words mean whatever the speaker means by them.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

We are not in the business of finding out you mean it or not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good!

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (11 children) | Copy Link

That's the least correct thing I've ever heard. If somebody says something to you, it is your business to figure out what it means.

I can't imagine what a conversation with you in real life would be like if you don't do this.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

If somebody says something to you, it is your business to figure out what it means.

...no it's not...

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Actually, it is. There are an encoder and decoder in every conversation. Real technical terms for communication (Encoder/Decoder). Can you figure out what that means? The encoder is someone who encodes a message and the decoder decodes it, crazy right? Now, the problem is that some men just don't know how to decode. There is usually some kind of "noise" (Another communication term with tons of meaning) that makes it so the guys just don't decode the message correctly. I'm concluding that it's likely cultural noise, but who knows. Either way, it is up to the decoder to determine the meaning correctly.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm aware of these terms in a technical context, and your analagous application of them in this context does not betray that technical meaning. I'm just saying, I can be like, "But fuck off" and not bother to figure out what the other person is saying, so...

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

Incorrect.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

It is utterly preposterous to suggest that someone else's unintelligible ramblings directed towards me compel me into action. They quite literally do not.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

They quite literally do not.

What do you think "literally" means in this context? In your mind, what would it mean for someone else's unintelligible ramblings to figuratively compel you into action?

I can see why you don't like to interpret the things that people say to you; because you don't seem to understand many words.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

In your mind, what would it mean for someone else's unintelligible ramblings to figuratively compel you into action?

Them mattering to me? I'm reasonably certain I have some will to ignore people's words... so... no, I'm not obligated to understand them. I can if I want to... or not, if I don't want to.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm a person who can decipher people'd verbal ques. But I'm also a person who realizes people can lie and can change ulterior motives at the drop of a hat. So unless it's clear your actions speak louder than words or you drop the sarcasm shtick or the like, I'm going to take your words at face value.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

So your argument is "I can't interpret social cues, so nobody else should be allowed to."

Interesting outlook on life.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When did I ever implied that people shouldn't read so called social cues? Nice interpretation.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Dog rainbow pillow pot

[–]Zippo-Cat3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reported

[–]87AudreyHorne1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not if the speaker hopes to be understood by anyone else.

[–]SerpentCypher1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is why women should be treated as children or mentally deficient.

[–]isweartoofuckingmuch 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah women like this is what makes people really go into the anger phase of RP lol.

[–]SerpentCypher0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not even red pill lol, but this has to be the only conclusion if women think words mean "whatever I want them to mean in any given moment." Even children learn early on that words have meanings. It's deranged to expect people to be able to read minds and know exactly what made up meaning you've cooked up for a particular word that could change on the fly, all while calling the non telepaths of the world autists. It sounds like the thoughts of a sociopath.

[–]Bntt890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No that’s not how language works at least for sane ppl.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Let me rephrase your own words then:

You flat out said: "stop obtaining consent, you pussy".

See if you can unpack why that's a fucking unwise thing to bring into your relationship.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Works just fine in my relationship

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, it's a hard stop for me, so stroll on.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (9 children) | Copy Link

No, let's rephrase it correctly:

"Sometimes people say things and mean other things, and that can even apply to sexual situations too. And those of us who are not autistic should critically interpret the full context of a woman's words and actions in order to determine whether consent is present. If it's not, stop."

A lot of words there, I know. If it takes you a few days to parse them all, I understand.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

I'm not stupid and I understand entirely what you said.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

Incorrect on both counts.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Nah, son. I just dont agree with you.

And I don't think "I'm not an autist, I can read nonverbal cues" is a defense to a rape charge, nor should it be.

[–]Moldy_GeckoPurple Pill Man1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Nor will it be, because they can read nonverbal cues and won't be raping anyone.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Until they are.

[–]EnterEgregore4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dunno what to say. I never ask my wife directly to have sex, if we have an hour of free time we just do it.

If we aren’t free, we just say so

[–]admiral_snugglebutt4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She's in the wrong here, but for the most part this is a situation that is only a problem because you have Aspergers. Most people can read signals and figure out when someone is coyly saying "no..." with a face that says "come fuck me".

[–]87AudreyHorne3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your wife sounds really really weird to me, and I also think people just call any stupid thing a kink because it's supposedly not nice to criticize kinks in the same way you'd be allowed to criticize shitty attitude.

I totally get wanting to see your partner really wants you, but to me that doesn't at all match with them insisting on something I clearly said no to - that's not "passionate", that's annoying, and totally unnecessary to show enthusiasm.

EDIT: as for women at the gym, I also think your wife's explanation was weird. They were simply being rude and selfish.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your wife has a kink. Even so, I recommend you come up with a 'safe word' that she can use if she actually finds something objectionable.

Not all women are like this. Tread carefully and don't make assumptions.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The actual content of the thread is making a good point, but OP, if somebody ever asked me if they could work in, and I said no, and then they started removing my weights on my squat rack, we would absolutely be fighting.

[–]iceicle99911 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is nothing new. Women complain about this now more than ever, a lot of men complain on their behalf too, that because some cute guy is too meek or whatever to defeat their bitchy signals, that means that women have it hard because guys aren't aggressive or confident blah blah blah anymore. The poor women, how ever will they survive?

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm gonna say this is something I have seen and heard out and about as well. A lot of women play this game but then get shocked when the dude decides it isn't worth it and then complain nobody wants to play the game with them.

There was a dude on AskMen who made the claim this is why women wind up with fuckboys and scammers so often despite them being a shockingly small percentage of dudes. Fuckboys are the only ones who consistently care to power through shit tests and put in effort from women who don't put in much of their own.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"We demanded men do blah blah blah, now we're really angry because men blah blah blah. We only wanted some men to blah blah blah, not that hot guy we wanted."

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was expecting your wife to come up with the analogy of comparing the women acting like they owned the squat racks, to men thinking they own women they just met. I'm very disappointed.

[–]DaphneDK42King of LBFMs2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Life is too short for these kinds of chicks and their silly games. Dump her.

[–]Nobodykers2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This story sounds like a larp.

[–]DXBrigade2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

"Women please take not of this". I am not your wife. Honestly just find a safe word.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is true. Not all women do this, but all men have been subject to this kind of communication from women. That might help explain why women who actually mean what they say have issues sometimes.

Also the first time she told me she had a rape fantasy, way back, I told her we could try with a safe word. She told me she didn’t like the idea because she felt it would ruin the authenticity of it.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Tried that, she wants nothing to do with a safe word. She thinks it ruins the authenticity. And yes you aren’t my wife. I agree not all women do it this way, but probably all men have experienced at least one case of this which conditions them to behave certain ways. Just something to keep in mind next time you wonder why a guy can’t take no for an answer.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There are few women that have been conditioned to associate transgression of their boundaries with arousal.

Often they’ve experienced some type of repeated abuse in the past.

They should not be the rule of thumb. And even if they were. Teach a better way

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have tried. Like I say, I don’t like it this way, and I have pushed for the whole clear contract thing including safe words for a long time. It didn’t get anywhere, and it made me feel bad that I could never seem to please her, which in turn left her unenthusiastic about sex, which led to me being unsatisfied with the frequency and intensity of the sex.

[–]PanderjitSingh_k2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This whole ‘asking for sex’ thing is unimaginable to me. I’ve never asked and never will. One simply initiates sexual activity and escalates if the response is positive. Or one responds to another’s initiating sexual activity.

[–]CainPrice6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your gym etiquette sucks. If you ask somebody if you can work in and she says no, you don't just start taking their plates off and doing it anyway because you think there's some kind of unspoken rule that people don't get to say no when it comes to certain limited equipment. This has nothing to do with the fact that the people using the equipment were women. They were using the equipment. This wasn't girls getting off on saying no to a guy. This was people at the gym using gym equipment, where proper etiquette on your part after asking to work in would be to wait until they're done with it or use something else.

You didn't understand this, though, and you asked your wife for clarification, so she assumed the best of you and that what you told her was correct (even though it's not) - that there's some kind of unspoken rule that these girls just -had- to let you work in no matter what. So she wracked her brain to figure out what else it could have been and figured maybe the girls were pissed off because they thought you were making a bid for their attention. But that wasn't it. That was just your wife trying hard to figure out what alternate issue this might have been when you told her it couldn't possibly be the big, obvious, frontal primary issue of your gym etiquette sucking.

Your wife etiquette sucks for a completely different reason. You don't know your wife. You don't know the difference between her playful no and her actual no. You don't know how to pick up on how she moves, talks, kisses, and flirts and figure out whether she's actually tired, actually not horny, or whether you can keep pushing. You don't know what she likes sexually - you apparently haven't tried things or figured any of this out and were hoping she'd just hand you a written list of rules and things to try out with her. You're married to this woman, and you don't know her.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We not fucking mind readers dude.

[–]WestsideMoonWalkerChonks Pheel the Phonk8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That sounds like a you problem. There are plenty of people that are direct and to the point.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No that sounds like her problem

[–]Barneysparky-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Do you really think you're in a position to give others advice on relationships?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Care to elaborate?

[–]Barneysparky-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You're 20 year old who has never had one.

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And yet, he isn't wrong: OPs wife is the shitty one here, not OP.

[–]shonenhikada3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The majority of human communication is via body language. If you rely on words mostly to recieve/send messages across you are going to be missing out on a lot.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And in this day and age, women have insisted that the standard be "unless you get constant, ongoing, affirmative, VOCALIZED consent, you're a rapist."

So be it.

Offer void in Canada, where trying to document consent is irrelevant since it's treated as "past sexual history" in court and inadmissible. If she wants to call you a rapist ex post facto because she found out you supported Trump or otherwise pissed her off, welcome to your rape charge.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The majority of human communication is via body language

[citation needed]

You can start with quantifying “communication”. Stephen Hawking had no body language and did a pretty good job communicating. He didn’t even have vocal intonation.

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My wife and a friend of hers said the same thing basicly. This was long before today's climate. No means no except when it's a yes.

So ya sometimes no means yes but you can't act on it so it's up to women to say yes instead of game playing.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

TL;DR: An aspie learns the concept of "implied consent".

[–]xanacop15 points16 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No means no. Implied or otherwise, most especially this day and age.

There's a fricken reason why BDSM have safe words.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Safe words, RACK and SSAC are not requirements in power exchanges.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

No. “No” sometimes means “Yes”.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No means yes, yes means anal.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Louis C.K. did a joke about this exact thing happening and how he refused to go along with it. Given Louis C.K. was doing actual sex crimes at the time and abusing his power that shows you how fucking seriously a lot of men take a no.

[–]-Redfish8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Given Louis C.K. was doing actual sex crimes at the time

No, Louis CK, although creepy and weird, did not commit a crime. In fact, he got verbal consent from the women he masturbated in front of, and left the person who did not consent alone.

[–]MGTOWKapow2Don't fuckin touch me6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

So you're saying these women said YES but meant NO, which is why they went crying to the metoo people going on about how they were forced to watch that fat, creepy bald ugly ginger pulling his fuckstick in front of them even though they didn't want him to?

You can't even trust YES, now you're telling me that NO also means YES? I'm out. I was out long ago, but I'm so fucking out if you want to try to bring me back to the fold, you're gonna need a rocket to Neptune.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh no, stop, please don’t go, give women another chance, what we will do without you.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Continue holding double standards while nagging society's men on how awful they are, more likely

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Amen to that. Also: please tell me you didn't lay total claim to Neptune because Pluto is too far off for me to emigrate. :P

[–]reddishrobin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So why are you still here taking up half the comments complaining about women? Haven't you got your own way to go?

[–]Lorioch1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Louis C.K.'s show Louie also did an episode where a woman sexually assaulted him and it was brushed off as NBD. And then later there's an episode where Louis C.K. powers through a woman's persistent "no"s and basically commits sexually assault himself, and it was played up as a noble and courageous act because that was actually what the woman wanted and she just didn't know it yet. Both of those episodes were very off-putting.

[–]alcockell0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait - what? When the message was clearer in Back to the Future... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxe8tzTMdrE

Then again - what you had in the woman's attitude was based on Mary Koss's view, and the flip? The Orange Wotsit himself..

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That sounds like a "you" problem. There are other machines in the gym. Don't be the guy that the "skipped leg day" meme is about.

[–]xanacop2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Have you been to a gym? Squat racks are always in demand. When I squat and someone asks if we can take turns between sets, I let them because I'll be taking 1-3 minute breaks in between sets. Add those up with 3 sets and it can take a bit.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are other machines in the gym.

Don't assume that.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I would HATE what your wife likes. Your wife is unusual.

Women please take note of this. You can help. I don’t like this way of doing things.

What? All woman have to take note of something your wife likes?

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

I would HATE what your wife likes. Your wife is unusual.

What? All women who have different views than you are unusual?

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

What? All women who have different views than you are unusual?

What? What?

Nope.

But most women prefer to have sex at a time of their choosing, rather than being dragged off to have sex randomly.

[–]fuckdr11 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

What? What? Nope.

Oh, because you implied otherwise.

But most women prefer to have sex at a time of their choosing, rather than being dragged off to have sex randomly.

You fundamentally misunderstand the situation. We’re talking about cases where consent is present, even if she verbally says “no”. This may seem completely alien to you, and it is indeed rare, but it happens with some people, on some occasions.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

We’re talking about cases where consent is present, even if she verbally says “no”.

I fully understand this.

What you don't understand is that it's being implied that most women (with a man whom they have consented to sexually before) would get instantly hot if he had sex with her even if she said no.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, only the women who do this. Apparently she isn’t the only one. Other people report the same issues. And looking back on my life, my wife wasn’t the only one I was with either that did this in one form or another.

https://youtu.be/NXpFtwYIKew

It is kind of like the feminist response to “not all men” is “yes all women” as in yes, all women have been exposed to this behavior from some men. My response to this is. “Yes, not all women do this, but probably also, yes all men have experienced this in their lives, and it does condition their behavior.”

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A few years ago I had slutty Alt girls messaging me on fb telling me their kink was “non con” and that I seemed like I’d be interested

Go figure

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol it's CNC now "consentual non consent."

[–]rhyth71 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women want men to read body language correctly.

[–]YetAnotherCommenterPurple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

None of this surprises me. Including the fact you have Asperger's. So do I, and I find the "coy communication" bullshit utterly infuriating.

But the reality of it is that the entire point of this 'yes means no, no means yes' game is to genetically weed out 'spergs and social losers.

Women prioritize physical attractiveness (which correlates with strength, hardiness and immunogenetics) and social adroitness (because we evolved in a tribal environment and the men with less autism and more pack-animal genetics climbed to the top of the hierarchy more effectively). But we live in a world of TRP, Dale Carnegie and a whole bunch of social skills training. In short, social adroitness can be mimicked.

But acquired traits cannot be genetically passed on. As such its in the woman's reproductive interest to screen out mimics and to make sure only naturals breed with her.

So what do we have? The Yes Means No Coy Courtship game. Its a case of a Zahavi/Spence-style costly signalling game. The 'spergs and losers pay attention to the verbal communication and miss the body language and "subtle" stuff. Thus, they take the no seriously and don't breed.

Why do (some) women keep insisting "yes means yes, no means no" when so many women seem to like this "coy courtship" game? Because they don't want the signalling equilibrium to be disrupted. The rise of social adroitness training is a threat to women's genetic interest because it allows nerdy loser social-incompetents to breed, and they do not want to mix their genetic material with that of men who lack genetic quality (as defined by the evolutionary historical environment).

The ironic fact about all of this is the coy courtship game is quite literally an aspect of rape culture (since it muddies the waters about consent). Yes, women have a role to play in ending rape culture, but it requires they give up one of their genetic-quality-filtering mechanisms.

[–]0kool741 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So they're basically a couple of cunts hogging BOTH squat racks? Yea I'd take their shit off too. No fucking reason why they can't share a rack. And sorry but your wife is a fucking idiot!!!!!

She was like “if I told you, it wouldn’t be hot that you did it, you would just be doing what I told you to do.”

That's gotta be total mental confusion for someone with an Aspie slant.

[–]sparksjoy 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

  1. Y'all might wanna get a safe word or something. There are so many ways this could end badly.

  2. Maybe this is just me but being touched in any way without my permission is naturally scary for me. Growing up I hated being hugged or kissed by strangers and relatives I didn't know well. As far as my relationships go I'm very shy when it comes to anything even remotely sexual, so I prefer when the guy lets me lead, at least at first. My first kiss involved a guy coming onto me without even hinting that he wanted to kiss me, and full-on putting his tongue in my mouth while I sat still not really knowing what to do. That incident has made me even more wary of men who push boundaries and more appreciative of men who are attentive and sensitive to my desires. But of course, I can't speak for all women.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes I keep telling her that. She doesn’t want one. In her words “I will know”. And I would know actuallly if she isn’t enjoying herself so she has a point.

On point 2, how old were you and him? Not that it makes it any less cringy for you, but that sounds like a young confused guy who doesn’t even know what a kiss is supposed to feel like. I bet he is just as scarred as you are from that! See I believe most men have the best intentions in mind and still fuck up. We don’t get any education about the finer points of romance and sex. Everyone is so weird, secretive, and mysterious about the subject for some reason I think boys in particular don’t quite understand because our mind doesn’t work that way at that age. At least mine didn’t. Kids get told an autistic method of consent, when everyone knows the real world doesn’t work that way. Literally no woman ever has asked my consent for any sexual act or kiss they instigated with me. Not even once. Maybe it should work the way they teach it but it usually doesn’t. And we need to teach people to perform well in the world we actually live in, not the one we wish we live in.

[–]sparksjoy 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

I was 19 and he was like 24. There was a massive experience gap since I came from a very sheltered upbringing and was still getting acclimated to life outside my parents' house (he was fully aware of that) and he...didn't, to say the least. He kept trying to make out with me when I repeatedly told him I didn't want to do that anymore (I gave in because we were in his car and I didn't want him to leave me stranded on the side of the road or something) and flat-out asked me to get on the backseat with him.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

IMO 24 year old boys are about as mature as 19 year old girls. 28 percent of men under 30 don’t have sex. Compared to only 18 percent of women. For 24 year oldboys, I would assume that number would be higher. Probably between 50 and 75 percent. So despite what your impressions of him you may have had, or what you heard about him, he probably wasn’t much more experienced than you.

Here is a link explaining what I mean by “mature faster” http://healthland.time.com/2013/12/19/why-girls-brains-mature-faster-than-boys-brains/

It doesn’t excuse bad behavior, but it might have been more clumsy than predatory. I am pretty certain he was just as confused about how to go about it as you were. Like I said, it doesn’t make it any better for you though. But if you gave in, I am not sure he would know it was because either you had felt like you had done your token anti slut defense “no” to let him know you aren’t “easy” (yes this is a thing some girls do) and that you were giving in because you actually wanted to, or that you gave in because you were scared he would leave you on the road.

Don’t know the dude, hard to say based on what you are saying so far.

[–]sparksjoy 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

We might have to agree to disagree. I started dating at 16. Even clumsy guys around that age seemed to have a better understanding of boundaries than the 24-year-old. I met him off-campus; he was into bodybuilding and liked to post his workouts to Instagram on his account. He was pretty much a standard Chad type with a bunch of female followers. None of the girls at my school knew him well so it's not like I had heard rumors about him or anything. Everything I say is based on my own experience.

I personally don't think he was confused at all, but that's just my read on the situation. Whatever the case was I just know that I need men in my life who respect my boundaries and let me lead until I'm comfortable enough to give up some control. And if that goes against his optimal strategy for getting girls then I guess that makes us incompatible.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok lol, you had me convinced he was a douche when you said “bodybuilding” and “posted his workouts to Instagram” I think either one of those two would be enough for a clinical diagnosis of narcissism. I am guessing you aren’t the only one he isn’t compatible with.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Damn you must look like a greek god to be able to get away with this level of autism.

[–]TheBookOfSeilAn ounce of Snu Snu is worth a pound of cure8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

*geek god

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Female coyness in a poison pill in modern society.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"No means No."

"Why aren't you raping me, you idiot?"

Women are stupid. In other news, the sky is blue.

[–]Ladyofblades1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Not every woman has that kink. Guys say no a lot as well (the women who come to marital counseling complaining about a lack of sex outnumber men).

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Women seek help more often than men. The demographics of people seeking help for things does not equal the demographics of people suffering of the same thing.

[–]Ladyofblades0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/276598/

Also women generally rely on sex in a relationship for emotional bonding and have less serotonin receptors than men do, which means a lack of sex may translate to less connection and affection for the woman.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting thanks for sharing. I had no idea!

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh wow I just read the link. It really didn’t offer any specific evidence for why women are supposedly just as horny as men.

Last time I had this debate I really looked into it. Here is what I found out.

Men masturbate more than women

Men buy and have bought almost all of the sexual services worldwide across cultures and time.

Swinger clubs have to cap the entrance of men on singles nights but let women in for free.

The majority of porn is consumed by men.

The imbalance on dating sites is huge. The more casual/sex focused it is, the more hard it is for men and easy it is for women.

Lesbians have fewer sexual partners and have sex less often than gay men

Gay men have more orgasms than straight couples who have more orgasms than Lesbians.

Studies of spontaneous thoughts about sex, frequency and variety of sexual fantasies, desired frequency of intercourse, desired number of partners, masturbation, liking for various sexual practices, willingness to forego sex, initiating versus refusing sex, making sacrifices for sex, and other measures all skewed towards men having the higher sex drive. No contrary findings (indicating stronger sexual motivation among women) were found.

The only indicator I found that could skew towards women having higher sex drives than men is that the majority of sex toys are made for women. However that is far from a conclusive point for many reasons.

About this quote: “the rules of the game are still written largely for the benefit of men“

I cannot imagine which rules about sex are written in men’s favor. Has anyone ever been on Tinder? To say it favors women is a massive understatement. There are some attempts to level the playing field like Bumble, but even here it is way easier for women.

[–]Ladyofblades0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lesbians actually have more orgasms than women in straight relationships, not sure where that came from. From what I’ve read of sex studies lately researchers seem unanimous in declaring that the drive itself is similar in women vs men. The difference is in how it’s expressed or initiated.

Women are also aroused by a greater variety of sexual images (including gay imagery) than men are. They just don’t seem to self report it but when they’re wired up blood flow to their genitalia indicates otherwise.

Which means culture and social acceptability may result in women suppressing sexual expression.

Re: rules of the game, women do not view dating apps favorably. You have to remember that women are more selective sexually and just the sheer number of guys on apps does not mean they’re guys that women want to have sex with. Also, what is known of sexuality is mostly about men.

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[–]Texastentialism 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

well are you going to come molest my anus or not!?

I will literally never stop puking

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lol foreign

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you, I was beginning to think everyone else found this line Hawt.

[–]belletaco2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i somehow breezed past that line but i'm actually lol right now

[–]shoup88Report me bitch2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s disgusting, and why I never read past the first two paragraphs of a post lol.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew11 points12 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

“clear contracts, long friendships”.

on what planet is this a saying

[–]NalkaNalkayou call it virtue, I call it cowardice6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Must be translated from another language.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Never heard anything even close to that.

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can kinda see it close to "good fences make good neighbors".

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is organized feminist fetish hogwash.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

?

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That saying originates from feminist fetish culture.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That saying does not exist in the English language anywhere

Google it

Are you trying to refer to BDSM?

[–]allweknowisD2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

that’s my kink

Okay so suddenly a woman’s kink turns into when a woman says no, she doesn’t mean it.

Cool

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

LMAO, ASD. Anyway, I don't play stupid games.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wonder if anyone will remember him when he's victim puking at MRP.

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you: boring gym anecdote

your wife, apparently: i want you to fuck me up the ass when i say no

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This story wasn’t riveting and has 71 upvotes. Who’s brigading?

[–]Mescalean0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Imagine your squat rack but with the only bench infront of the 100 lb dumbells and the girl was using it to rest her water bottle and text between tricep kick backs with a 5.....

I feel your pain brother

Wheymen

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Instead of taking this as something that reflects on all women I think it is wiser to conclude that your wife is an idiot who plays silly immature games and is using her femininity as a shield because she is a coward to really be what she is.

[–]azngirl76890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think your wife has a CNC fantasy. You should act it out. That’s fun as hell.

[–]IndigoPillNo Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When I say no, I mean it. Never once in my life have I said no and meant yes, nor have I said yes and meant no. It doesn't mean try harder, it doesn't mean ask again, it means NO.

But more often than not when I have said no, very clearly, men have challenged it. Demanded I change my mind, demanded I explain.. no means no boys. I am a lesbian but they still don't accept that.

She only speaks for herself, she doesn't speak for me or anyone else.

NO MEANS NO. Don't assume anything else. If someone said no and means yes, treat it as a no. If someone says no and you push, you're a rapist.

[–]reddishrobin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your wife is weird. Most women are not like her. There are far more women who are devastated that their saying no to sex was ignored, than there are crazy women like your wife who want you to effectively rape her. Have a look at all the testimonies of women and girls devastated by rape and sexual assault on r/twoxchromosomes if you don't believe me. Its far better for men to err on the side of caution and avoid a rape charge, than pushing through the so-called Last Minute Resistance.

[–]alcockell0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This was the dynamic tracked in Louis CK's classic bit - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hNaFkbZYU

[–]blackKat0070 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Eh I think this might be a thing for some women, but it's pretty safe to just assume someone means what they say unless there are some serious other clues and you know her quite quite well. IMO saying no should be accepted as no, unless right before sex she is like "let's play a game and choose a safe word" or something. And for the record not saying anything isn't yes.... it's probably a begrudging yes at very best.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I totally agree. It should be that way. And not all women communicate like this, but all men have been subjected to this type of commmunication before.

And for me it took three years of knowing my wife and struggling to get her to communicate her fantasies to me. Knowing she had a rape fantasy helped. Also knowing she really hates the safe word approach helped me figure this out. I tried that, she said it felt too fake. Knowing her body language and her trusting me completely not to hurt her also probably helped. Hard to say, she hates to talk openly about this kink too much.

We knew each other as teenagers and I had a huge crush on her, which turned out bad with me friendzoning myself. Very embarrassing. We talked about it later and I said “why didn’t you go for me then? I told you I wanted it, and we always had opportunities.” She said “if you had just taken me, you could have had me”. Frustrating.

[–]blackKat0070 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That does sound kind of tough. One thing I think might be contributing to this problem: Men and women are socialized in different ways to the point where I think it's common for us women to have difficulty feeling comfortable discussing (or even being aware of) our fantasies. Women are also taught frequently to be polite and not be aggressive - and saying NO stop! feels aggressive to many of us.

It's a very fine line and it's frustrating because the consequences on both sides are very high. A guy doesn't want to come off as too "beta" but also not as forceful. A girl doesn't want to come off as easy or a prude. Communication is the only way, and I think men and women have both been conditioned in ways that are unhelpful around this issue. When I engage in intimate relationships I try to find people who are very open communicators. Hopefully going forward society as a whole can become more comfortable communicating and accepting differences of opinion so that people can come to agreement and avoid situations like the one you experienced (and other outcomes such as rape).

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

For sure it has to do with how society conditions men and women to communicate. Neither one is right or wrong, they are just different so when we try to have interactions, misunderstandings happen. I prefer direct honest communication, but playful incongruency can also be fun, and allow for possibilities that wouldn’t be possible with direct honest communication. If I were to guess what is going through her mind, it would be something like this:

“I want him to be so connected to me, so sexually in tune, what he knows what I want, even when I don’t tell him. It validates me to have him be so turned on by me, that he cannot resist having sex with me under any circumstances. I want a man who is so assertive, and so powerful, that he won’t take no for an answer. Those are all turn ons that can’t really be fully actualized through direct honest communication. And I would hazard a guess that lots of women have those turn ons. In fact, I would hazard a guess that most MEN have the first two. But of course nobody has the turn on of being fucked by someone they don’t want to fuck. And those things are at odds with each other.

It is obviously a tricky nuanced subject, but “no means no” is too simplistic. It is a great heuristic that protects a lot of women and men from fuckups. But like any heuristic, it isn’t the full truth, and the solution it presents might not be the optimum solution. Certainly not for every person ever. It is probably the safest solution, but safety isn’t everything. Some of the things I like to do that make life worth living aren’t safe.

[–]esiemualBBlue Pill Woman0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women are not a hivemind. Just because your wife thinks like this doesn't mean that all other women don't mean their "no". It's really troubling that just because one woman has lied to you, you think that all women don't mean their "no". Even the female powerlifters probably meant their "no" (hence they also protested when you took their plates off), but what other option did they have? Should they have ripped the equipment out of your hands? Should they have gotten violent to make their point? How far should they have gone so that you would have believed them that they really don't want you to interrupt their workout?

Seriously, it is so messed up that just because some other women don't mean it when they say no, the ones who do mean it have to say it several times, and possibly even fight off guys physically. I have never told a guy no when I actually meant yes, but I still get to deal with the consequences of other women rejecting men they actually want to be pursued by.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well first of all they shouldn’t break powerlifting etiquette and make a fuss about someone working in. But I don’t expect everyone to understand that part.

And I totally agree this is a huge shame for women who communicate clearly. You are one of those and I feel for you. It is also a huge shame for men, who have a harder times differentiating between when no means “ravish me” and when it means “no” than women. I guess your argument is somewhat like the “not all men” argument. I would counter that that is correct, but “yes all men” have been subject to this type of conditioning from some women.

[–]tapertown0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would just like to offer the counterpoint that women will also often say yes or just quietly acquiesce without saying no or putting up any resistance and then say something like ‘i was manipulated’ or ‘i wasn’t as into it as i seemed to be’ after the fact. There’s literally no way to win. You can ignore women when they say no without consequences half the time, and only go ahead when they say yes and still be accused of being a pseudo-rapist after the fact. It’s extremely frustrating and it makes those of us who aren’t sociopaths or completely jaded almost want to give up on women entirely.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Molest my anus?

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, I only do that for my wife.

[–]corporalkii 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

You were completely in the right. It was bad communication from her side—she should have told you that she wanted you to push for sex even when she said no, and maybe established a safe word.

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The problem is, she has a rape kink. CNC play does close to nothing for her. That sort of kink is impossible to satisfy through direct communication. If she asks for it, than that by definition ruins the experience for her.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

no means yes and yes means anal

[–]Nobodykers1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A phrase to live by

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As far as gym etiquette goes I find that you have to be forceful. The reverse is when I'm dealing with someone at the desk or doing my own set and someone asks I have to say "no, fuck off" if some woman cuts. The reverse though is I actually just want to do my shit and most of the time it's some 20something white girl who thinks being hot grants her special privileges when I just want to sign something or pump out my set.

[–]MagicBookworm-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This story feels kind of gross also

women like saying no to men. Sometimes just for the sake of it. Even if they don’t actually mean no.

What does this ^ even mean???

[–]Whiteliesmatter1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not sure entirely.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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