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It feels like every week, there's a new post by a different user complaining that women do not act like men. Then there's a wall of text that boils down to male pearl-clutching about how they're the most put upon gender, and why can't women just get it together to:

  • Approach
  • Defend their man
  • Be chivalrous
  • Pursue STEM careers

It's clearly a trend, but what I'm curious about is why some young men are so blind to women's roles in society.

Women don't approach, we send IOIs explicitly inviting an approach. We defend our children, because our man is stronger and better equipped to deal with danger. We have our own code of conduct: ladylike. And (painting with a broad brush here) STEM is something that appeals to the "problem/solution" male brain.

The most laughable example, IMO, are the guys who complain that women won't go for a blue collar guy, but themselves explicitly ignore the pink collar jobs that are the female version of blue collar - hair dressers, nurses, aestheticians, dental assistants, receptionists, etc.

Can someone explain how some younger guys are so blind to this?


[–]whatyoucallaflip 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

Can someone explain how some younger guys are so blind to this?

They spoon-feed a constant, uncontradicted diet of "men and women are equal!!!11!!! There's no difference in any way!!!111" in mainstream media for years and years and forget to explain that , yeah, some folks are gonna believe it.

And of course, each side takes away the parts that are convenient to them

Women want all the benefits of the male gender (especially those benefits which accrue to the top men) without the corresponding downsides

Men want all the benefits of the female gender (especially those benefits which accrue to the top women) without the corresponding downsides

You get the society you pay for

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This society and its gynocentric system are not worth defending in a battlefield.

[–]whatyoucallaflip 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Apparently The People agree

There aren't enough fit men to fight or whatever

People act in accordance with incentives

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fit or not this system is undeserving of defense.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn, that readhead girl can lift! I'd date and marry her! :))

[–]NiceGuyNumber442 points43 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Younger guys have been told the opposite by their media, their education, and by their politicians. Yet once again, they're supposed to "just get it."

[–]MustNotFfff19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

We had this idea beaten into our heads in school and through media: girls can do anything boys can do. Logically speaking, any boy could tell that girls *are* different, but if you're told that girls can *be* just like boys if they are willing to and society permits them - and then society tells girls that they *should be* like men (going to universities, climbing the career ladder), then it's hard not to expect girls to act like men. And when they don't, you think they aren't willing to play by the rules (without realizing that women are wired differently and that what they're "supposed" to do isn't what they're gravitating towards doing internally).

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We had this idea beaten into our heads in school and through media: girls can do anything boys can do

OP also forgot the mixed messages that feminism sent where domestic or traditionally feminine duties should get more recognition but even feminists valued more masculine roles. It's why you have some women chasing careers, having short term relationships with Chads then wanting to settle down in their 30s, similar to men.

No boy was going to argue that girls can't do what boys can, so any difference that isn't purely biological (strength and anatomy) are sexist to point out when women are at a disadvantage. So there's a mental block created to not bother looking at women's weaknesses while men's weaknesses were free to be discussed. For example, there being no talk of toxic femininity. Additionally, there's an incentive to only highlight women's positive attributes: social approval, perhaps even female attention, and you wouldn't be labeled a sexist.

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf99 points100 points  (50 children) | Copy Link

Can someone explain how some younger guys are so blind to this?

Egalitarian frame. They were taught that men and women are equal by school, media, authority figures and theyre struggling with all kinds of dissonance because the fairytale and reality dont align

dont buy gold wtf

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women41 points42 points  (35 children) | Copy Link

Exactly, we really have a hard time with this idea of "equal". We know of "equal" in math, it means the same. Are men and women "equal" in terms of upper body strength? Are men and women "equal" in terms of interests and preferences?

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf22 points23 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I made a thread asking about what equality meant to people here at one point. Most gave some vague answer pointing to legal equality. Which also doesnt make any sense to me. Nobody agreed with my congruence definition at all.

[–]Rufus_Reddit15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think that, in the rhetoric, people are typically conflating "equality" and "justice." In other words, they say "inequality" but want people to think "injustice." This is convenient because it's much easier to show that there's inequality than it is to show that there's injustice.

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this is a succinct way to make the point. I may start saying I ignore inequality but hate injustice.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Legal equality is vague, yes. All gay men already were equal in rights with straight men: both could marry women. Just there are minorities whose desires differ from those of the majority. And they want to satisfy them. While the majority already are satisfied.

[–]Nobodykers6 points7 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

It doesnt matter who has more strength or whatever attribute on average. The importance of equality is to allow qualified people to persue what they want

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||10 points11 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Qualified people can *pursue what they want. Yay, equality! Yet, women who pursue certain careers are hired despite being grossly unqualified. Meanwhile, men who are more qualified don't get hired for jobs for which they are well-qualified, because some pencil-pusher decided that they needed more wimmin doing those jobs.

Men who aced the physical tests to become firefighters are flipping burgers because the department needed more women, even if they aren't strong enough to do the job. People could die because the best man for the job wasnt wasn't doing the job, because he's a man. That's fucked up.

[–]rhyth70 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

How many men are being displaced? I don't see legions of women trying to be police officers or firefighters. In fact, I've met none in my life who said they wanted to be any of those things. How much displacement is unacceptable to you? Cuz right now it seems that 90% of those jobs are still held by men. The guy flipping burgers probably wasn't qualified enough if he still couldn't get in. There are rural volunteer and seasonal firefighters, it may not be his main job but he can still participate if he so wanted. In fact the burge flipping would help him cuz the schedule would be more flexible if he needed to be on call.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

How much displacement is acceptable to me? None. If saving lives is your primary function, and management decides that "diversity" is more important than saving lives, and replaces the best man for the job with someone who is worse in nearly every way at saving lives because she checks the right boxes, one life lost is one too many.

[–]rhyth71 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

They are still hiring the best men. They are not hiring the okay men. Or like most managers they are hiring their buddies, which are the 'best men'.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If their buddies can haul my ass out of a burning building, they are the best men. If a diversity hire leaves me to burn because she is too weak to do her job, she is not the best one to do the job. She should get a job where her failure doesn't get anyone killed.

[–]rhyth72 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can carry a full grown man on my back and I'm 5'2 and 150lbs. I do not work out and yes my arms are weak but my back and legs are not. If I did exercise then I would be much stronger and able to do more. I have worked many physical factory jobs which require lifting and stamina and determination and have outlasted many men who walked off the first day and couldn't do what I can do. The women who want to be in these jobs are women determined to be there and they are not average, they're not weak little girls who want to be a diversity hire. And you have no idea what real firement look like. In my hometown they were all fat and potbellied and soft, just like all the cops.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can carry a full grown man on my back and I'm 5'2 and 150lbs. I do not work out and yes my arms are weak but my back and legs are not.

And it would still take you a lot longer than a guy who is 6' and 200 lbs.

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you arguing that women don't want to be firefighters and police officers?

[–]rhyth74 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The majority of them do not. Otherwise they'd be applying in droves. Nobody in my thirty years has expressed wanting to be in those carreers.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

wimmin

That destroyed any hope that you were making a fair comment.

Grossly under-qualified women are not routinely being hired. You made that up.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Grossly under-qualified women are not routinely being hired

Depends on the employer, sites like Buzzfeed and HuffPo do.

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

Oh, I dont understand what that means. If I'm an NFL Linebacker and you're a running back on the other team, should I let you pursue what you want? What if we're both office workers up for the same promotion? Should I just let you have it? I dont understand what you mean?

[–]Nobodykers2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Whats is so hard about understanding that qualified people should be allowed to do the things they are qualified for. Lets say 99,999999% of women arent able to do job x. Then the 0.000001% that can should be allowed to. That is the importance of equality.

Im not making a case on who should get job x in case of equal qualification. So don't strawman me.

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

For the third time, I don't understand what you mean. We have laws in the United States that guarantee what you're talking about. One of these laws has existed since 1965. We've had that kind of equality since 1965. Some people are asking for some other kind of equality, something opposite of what you're asking for. Some people want to put unqualified people into jobs for the sake of something they call equality. Sounds like we agree, those affirmative action policies create inequality?

[–]Nobodykers1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I personally dont want unqualified people let into jobs. I only care about qualification being the only parameter. However, people are always biased, and this is causing discrimination. And discrimination will cause positive discrimination. The two will never be balanced, which causes friction and more debate. Like the one we are having now.

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I think we totally agree then, everyone's focus should be on getting the most qualified person into the job.

[–]Nobodykers0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Jep. Although i argue in favour of positive discrimination due to human bias, BUT i also recognise that its major flaw is causing less qualified people to be favoured above more qualified people. I'm sure you also recognise there is discrimination against certain groups outside of pure qualification. In the end we both want the same thing.

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

you also recognise there is discrimination against certain groups outside of pure qualification.

I do. I'm actually writing a really long paper on bias in standardized testing right now. This is from what I just wrote.

According to Reynolds (2012) “Findings of bias rely primarily on mean differences between groups.”. As addressed earlier, mean differences between groups could be explained in a number of ways. It could be bias in testing, genetic influences, or environmental differences, or a combination of all of these things. In order to establish that it is only one of the factors causing the mean differences, researchers would need to control for the other factors. Researchers most likely will not be able to control for environment factors. Currently, there is no way to control for genetic differences between ethnic groups because genetic differences are what constitutes different ethnic groups. Also, current research suggests that we cannot completely control for bias in standardized testing (Reynolds, 2012). Therefore, we can say with any certainty that it is only one of these factors causing the mean ethnic group differences on scores of intellectual ability.

Reynolds, C. R. and Suzuki, L. A. (2012). Bias in Psychological Assessment. In Handbook of Psychology, Second Edition (eds I. Weiner, J. R. Graham and J. A. Naglieri). doi:10.1002/9781118133880.hop210004

[–]Nodoxxintoxin0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This. For me, a retired female bsme, it’s about the equal access to opportunity, not equal outcome. In my personal life my husband and I have a fairly egalitarian relationship but still have pretty gender typical roles.

[–]Nobodykers0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Equal opportunity is what i meant with qualified people being allowed to perssue what they want. Agreed, yes.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are men and women "equal" in terms of interests and preferences?

Feminists would love you to think this because that's yet another reason to bash the patriarchy.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Do most schools teach men and women are factually equal? I really believe girls mostly play girls' toys and boys mostly play boys' toys. Even in the US.

[–]rabbitholemystery1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

School includes all schooling and could include platforms associated with what people in school use. Try saying men aren’t women tho on twitter and get a potential ban. Try saying men and women are not the same on some university campus in a public setting, good fucking luck. This is pushed down our throats from many angles.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Try saying men aren’t women tho on twitter and get a potential ban.

I'm saying "Men have menses too" in the book I'm currently writing though (arguing with a dumb form of feminism).

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do most schools teach men and women are factually equal?

What do schools teach about female/male equality? Is there a coherent lesson? I don't think so.

[–]Actuallyconsistent16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is it. Up until probably mid college I internalized and believed that women and men were the same because I was taught that all throughout my childhood.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Same here

[–]Mescalean4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This 100 percent

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

dont buy gold wtf

Yeah, this. LOL.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I disagree. Most men don't expect women to approach. In fact many guys wish women approach first and that has nothing to do with egalitarian frame. That's like saying there are communists in the US because of communist frame.

[–]suscitareMGTOW Red Pill Man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Additionally women have invaded male work places so men now need to out-compete women (that do not need to play the same competitive game) to achieve the necessary status to find a mate.

[–]hoere_des_heerenwhore of the lord0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then why don't they have it about all the other lofty lied ideas that schools basically come to students with and lie with as a matter of propaganda?

But then again I'm sure they get hit just as hard when they're stuck with a public defender for the first time because they can't afford a good lawyer and realize all this talk about fair trial and everyone gets an adequate legal defence to be the same poopydong.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

They were taught that men and women are equal by school, media, authority figures and theyre struggling with all kinds of dissonance because the fairytale and reality dont align

They ARE equal as people, and that is what is taught. Because it is correct.

But the OP is behind the times. These days, girls do approach and many want to do STEM. We don't defend men against attack only because of the size and strength difference, not because it's not in our nature. We're not chivalrous because it wasn't taught to us and there is no gain in it - it would just confuse and annoy men.

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They ARE equal as people, and that is what is taught. Because it is correct.

They are equal as people. This is not what is taught.

If it was, you wouldn't have ideologues defending the idea of trans women competing against biological women in women's sports, because literally anyone (even the ideologues) can plainly see what's happening.

They just don't care, because the narrative is more important than being factually correct.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Off topic but is your username a reference to the Metric song "Combat Baby"?

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Off topic but is your username a reference to the Metric song "Combat Baby"?

Sorry to disappoint - no.

I'm just using 'combat' as another word for 'debate'.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

They ARE equal as people, and that is what is taught.

No, I was exposed to the constant message that literally said that men and women were equal (except on the physical level), that any gender differences were the result of social engineering; and that anyone who claimed the opposite was a sexist pig who deserved to be ostracized.

And I was born in the 80s and heard most of that stuff in the 90s.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, I was exposed to the constant message that literally said that men and women were equal (except on the physical level), that any gender differences were the result of social engineering; and that anyone who claimed the opposite was a sexist pig who deserved to be ostracized.

Okay, well that's weird. How could people with such different hormones be exactly the same?

I think a lot of it IS social engineering, but not all.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How could people with such different hormones be exactly the same?

Ask the feminists, they're coming up with that shit which is treated as gospel by the media.

[–]HumanSockPuppetEqual-Opportunity Oppressor57 points58 points  (55 children) | Copy Link

Men are blind to women's roles because everything in media and education teaches them to expect otherwise. "Strong independent wimminz" is the popular image that women like to see projected.

And as a guy, if that's all you see and hear, eventually you're gonna believe it to be true.

Then, you go out into the world and absolutely none of the women you interact with are bold, forthcoming, brave, and self-determining like Wonder Woman led you to believe, you get a little confused.

After enough disappointments, that confusion turns to irritation and eventually anger.

[–]EsauTheRed12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I have known female teachers and those with STEM careers that I respect

Generally they aren't pretty though

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I work with female doctors that are pretty but mostly they marry other doctors.

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Intelligent people are legit better looking. It's science. All the female officers in the military were bangin', too - enlisted ladies less so often.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've known plenty of STEM women, female managers that I've worked with and respect. But there aren't many of them, and the going charge is that STEM guys "create a hostile environment for women" with their... Star Trek posters and nerdy inside jokes.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing18 points19 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

Usually when women are " bold, forthcoming, brave, and self determining" some mediocre dude tells them they are either crazy, fucked up, or a bitch.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

And if she's bold, forthcoming, brave, and self-determining, it will be really easy for her to yawn and dismiss the comment.

[–]orcscorper 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh. Emm. Gee. You don't know anything, do you? Strong, independent women require constant validation that they are strong and independent, or they shatter like fine porcelain. You don't know how hard it is, to be a woman in a man's world. You lack the magical female empathy required to understand. Women are exactly equal to men, and yet better in every way at the same time. Patriarchy.

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No circle-jerking.

[–]heyman07 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

lol youre proving his point. If those kinds of women can easily be stopped by "some mediocre dude"'s comment, then they're not " bold, forthcoming, brave, and self determining" in the first place.

These are just surface level attacks your enemy would use to get under your skin. And it looks like it did. You don't think guys don't face these comments all the time? Other guys attack the manhood of guys that try to be assertive, like calling them "pussies" or "soybois" or "faggots" and in your case, "a crazy fucked up bitch".

If you got hurt by words, then you've already lost the battle. That's the reason why guys are the "bold, forthcoming, brave and blablabla". They ignore these words and prove themselves with their actions - staying level-headed and de-escalating the conflict or using self-defense techniques to take down the aggressive enemy.

This is essentially why women are not seen as strong. Do not blame women's plight on that mediocre dude. That dude is just an asshole and doesn't even represent all men. Blaming that guy is an excuse to complain and avoid the responsibility. If women want to be seen as strong, then they should prove/SHOW how strong they are.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

By your measure men are not bold either. I am not trying to fight a battle I do not see disagreements as being even remotely similar to a battle or a fight or a war with an enemy anybody who does is either naive or sheltered or a combination of both. Can't help them. Internet word spats are not like fighting in a war lol.

[–]heyman02 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"By your measure men are not bold either."

"NO U" is basically what your saying. Did I struck a nerve?

I am not trying to fight a battle I do not see disagreements as being even remotely similar to a battle or a fight or a war with an enemy anybody who does is either naive or sheltered or a combination of both. Can't help them. Internet word spats are not like fighting in a war lol.

Good for you. How is this related to anything you and I have said about the asshole telling girls they're weak?

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not real sure what you are looking for here.

[–]v3r116 points17 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yes, there is always someone who doesn't like what you are doing, there are bad people on every side. What is your point? That the whole of society tells them to be those things, they are biologically inclined to be like that but aren't because someone said they were a bitch? That doesn't sound like real strength, that sounds like fake strength

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Fake strength? So this comment is just nonsensical something something?

[–]v3r18 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

What's hard to understand? You can say you are very strong but if you stop at the first adversity are you really? Reality and what you think reality is are often very different things.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I am not saying I am strong. I am saying when women project that they are heavily critiqued so it is up to them to draw conclusions about who is doing the yammering and what they are saying. Nobody is strong 24/7. Everybody is displays weakness at one time or another.

[–]v3r16 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ofc everyone is weak at one time or another. What are you talking about? You said that women don't like being that strong independent women because they then get called a bitch. What I said is that if you stop yourself from being what you want to be because someone else doesn't like it, it means you aren't as strong of a person as you though. I don't mean you specifically I mean people in general both men and women.

You should always strive to be proud of yourself no matter what anyone else says is my point. And people who manage to keep going against all odds are stronger than the ones that don't.

Edit: spelling

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh I do whatever I want but there is a price tag for everything.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not saying I am strong.

You'd have to be to hang out here and put up with this stuff so long.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. Especially the latter.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

some mediocre dude

Hear, hear.

[–]flaxeater0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, well rejection sucks and is part of being the 'approacher'.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

And when men are " bold, forthcoming, brave, and self determining", you get some less-than-mediocre feminist harpy who hates that too, complains that these guys behave as if they owned the world and say that they only turned out that way because of straight white male privilege.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay? I really don' t care . The horse is dead.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most women who say that about themselves are anything but.

Women, from the most frail to the K1 fighter all compete and desire the same top 20% of men.

It's practically impossible for a woman to try to act like a man in the SMP and not come off as "crazy, fucked up, or a bitch".

Here's the thing the men who would have these women (physically weaker or more effeminate men) are not desired.

And the men these women want already have a ton of options and will at best reject them, and at worst fuckzone them.

Female hypergamy + "equality" = BAD NEWS for a lot of women.

Men have been taught to be independent and that "in this world I only have two things: my word and my balls".
For a man, as long as it doesn't have a risk of him ending up dead, he'll take on many jobs to survive.
Women don't do this, they won't do this, they have their pride and their pussy.

It's not the same for women. Even the female K1 champion expects to be dressed in white, picked up and carried by her Prince Chadming on her wedding day.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

K

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

U2

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Source, please?

In my opinion, women who label themselves "bold, forthcoming, brave, and self-determining" are either crazy, fucked up, or bitches. Usually "and", rather than "or", but I may just be a mediocre dude.

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I tend to think such women are neither crazy nor fucked up, but almost are universally bitches. Another cool character trait is humility. Strong independent bitch feminism poured gasoline on that character trait and lit it on fire.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess talk to those women.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Usually when women are " bold, forthcoming, brave, and self determining" some mediocre dude tells them they are either crazy, fucked up, or a bitch.

That's because bitchy women often use those terms to describe themselves then blame and shame men for not being 'strong enough' and for not wanting to put up with their shit.

Women who are self determining and brave can do so without destroying their femininity in the process.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I never advocate putting up with shit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You mean people can be mean? Wow.

Get over it.

[–]HumanSockPuppetEqual-Opportunity Oppressor-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So the more salient question here then is, why do WOMEN ignore women's roles?

Women try so hard to fight their nature. They try in vain to be like men. And for what? So they can be miserable at 30, with a PhD, an empty dating pool, and diminishing prospects for long-term happiness?

Women have been sold these lies by people who profit from their dollars and their votes. And they've been biting the bait for so long they don't dare admit they've been wrong all this time. Double down, protect the ego, tell men they're the ones who have the problem.

It's almost sad to watch. I'd be pretty depressed about it if it weren't making it so easy for me to get laid.

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What are you even blabbering about?all the phd women i know are happy and taken by high quality men. Seek help?

[–]antariuszRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

10 years later you find TRP and the world starts to make sense again.

[–]Venicedreaming0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do most boys get separated from girls until 18 or something? Only seeing/intersecting with the first woman when the clock turn 12 on their 18th birthday?

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Men ignore "women's roles" because women have abandoned "women's roles".

[–]HumanSockPuppetEqual-Opportunity Oppressor1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Yes, and I know all the reasons why women have abandoned those roles. I write about the subject all the time when advising young men on how to navigate the current social climate.

I would say that "I hope things get better for our society and the people in it", but I know that we're past that point now. The scope of the problem is beyond anyone's ability to fix. That's why we say "enjoy the decline" in our community.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Any society that allows hypergamy and relegates men to disposable objects deserves to collapse until we can start valuing men without oppressing women.

[–]HumanSockPuppetEqual-Opportunity Oppressor1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Before I respond to that, let me ask you: what is your definition of "oppressed"?

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Oppression = treating women as second class citizens with less rights than men. Which is not entirely the same as opreshun which is what feminists call oppression.

[–]AnonoForReasons 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Aren’t you the guy who gets butthurt and cries when someone disagrees with you? I get the feeling that life oppresses you.

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hes something special

[–]HumanSockPuppetEqual-Opportunity Oppressor0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

How are women oppressed today?

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They're not, as long as the GOP is kept in check. But the Hobby Lobby ruling was nothing more than a foot in the door for using religious objections to deny women basic rights like contraception usage. And let's not sit here and deny that Conservative culture wants to control women just like Islamofascism does. They'd kick women out of jobs and the military, etc. in a heartbeat.

[–]ReformedTomboyPurple Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They are only disappointing and confusing themselves. When it comes to action vs words action (or inactions in this instance) always wins.

I also blame this on people (in the US anyways) watching too much TV and likening instagram platitudes instead of going outside and observing the world for what it is. I personally don’t watch much tv (<1 hour per week) and don’t have SM so I miss a lot of that social programming.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then, you go out into the world and absolutely none of the women you interact with are bold, forthcoming, brave, and self-determining like Wonder Woman led you to believe, you get a little confused.

No, just those women are after shy Chad-looking guys. Well, not conventionally Chad-looking, maybe. But those still are a minority.

Also, I don't see that the image of a strong woman is prevailing. There is such an image, and quite prominent, but not prevailing.

[–]hoere_des_heerenwhore of the lord-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

To be fair in the media their male love interests are also a lot more handsme, brave, bold and whatnot than the male average on the street.

One assumes that when one's own attractiveness goes up the boldness does so too.

[–]HumanSockPuppetEqual-Opportunity Oppressor1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

To be fair in the media their male love interests are also a lot more handsme, brave, bold and whatnot than the male average on the street.

That's men aspiring to be masculine. Masculinity is what straight women like.

Wonder Woman is women aspiring to be masculine. Guys don't like that. They want feminine women.

One assumes that when one's own attractiveness goes up the boldness does so too.

Then one would be an idiot.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wonder Woman is women aspiring to be masculine.

No. It's a fantasy superhero. Just like the male fantasy superheroes. Women do fantasise about being as strong as WW. Doesn't make them masculine. Just makes them people.

Guys don't like that.

Women don't care.

[–]hoere_des_heerenwhore of the lord0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wonder Woman is women aspiring to be masculine. Guys don't like that. They want feminine women.

So what.. they have their dilussioned shattered because real life is not how the media portrays it and they're sad about that but they don't like what's in the media either?

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

wimminz

Argument destroyed.

>Then, you go out into the world and absolutely none of the women you interact with are bold, forthcoming, brave, and self-determining like Wonder Woman led you to believe, you get a little confused.

You obviously hang in very, very narrow circles. I know many such women.

[–]TheColdColdAbyssDarkest pill of all22 points23 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Because this generation is being raised on the notion that women and men only differ in terms of body, not mind, when in fact they differ in all aspects of humanity.

And because the traditional feminine role "gender role" is something the public institute scorns and does not teach.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

when in fact they differ in all aspects of humanity.

All aspects? Like I need to point out how silly this is?

[–]TheColdColdAbyssDarkest pill of all12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, point it out and start a debate instead of sarcastically commenting.

[–]v3r10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's so silly that not one argument against it was presented

[–]douchebag_throwaway35 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Tell the feminists, not us.

RP is firmly on the side of gender essentialism.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can't say men and women are different in all aspects. Both have a pair of hands, a pair of feet, a head and a body.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well so do gorillas. In good faith discussion the idea is to grasp what's implied rather than get bogged down in pedantry.

[–]diemstheboyManly3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This sub is meant for debating, not condescending, so go ahead.

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The issue is you not understanding women want the right to do what they choose. They would be fools to not also accept biology makes them want certain jobs more. But they should have the choice no?

[–]TheColdColdAbyssDarkest pill of all1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When did I say they shouldn't have the right to choose what they want?

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (98 children) | Copy Link

What's the deal with stem? I was a chemistry undergrad in college and 75% of the students in my major were women.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew35 points36 points  (45 children) | Copy Link

they say "stem", they MEAN coding and engineering

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (34 children) | Copy Link

Yea, you're right. I forgot that are no other sciences to some people than coding and engineering.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat17 points18 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

Indeed. Pure maths, biology, chemistry, medicine, even edge cases like econ certainly don't exist to these guys.

(also, the coding thing is SUCH A BUBBLE)

[–]EsauTheRed7 points8 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

50 year old bubble

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

Coding isn't a bubble, but the tech industry is.

[–]NiceGuyNumber46 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

People keep saying tech and coding are bubbles, yet automation is supposedly right around the corner.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

You're point?

[–]NiceGuyNumber42 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean how is tech a bubble if that's the industry creating and maintaining automation?

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Parts of the tech industry are going to do well. App companies, nor so much.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And yet we been automating for eons.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's no tech bubble right now.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I dunno, I know a lot of people who did coding boot camp to get jobs and found themselves without jobs from it. Even really reputable bootcamps like App Academy.

[–]EsauTheRed0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Bootcamps are bullshit and the time period is too short to get any good

Why do you suppose that every bootcamp graduate should be able to find a job anyway?

Maybe that is more of an indicator how many 'tards are in your friend group?

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do you suppose that every bootcamp graduate should be able to find a job anyway?

Because the programs are structured in such a way that if they WEREN'T finding jobs for nearly everyone, they'd lose a fortune?

[–]mwait0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The whole working thing is such a BUBBLE!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Pure maths, biology, chemistry, medicine, even edge cases like econ certainly don't exist to these guys.

Feminists weren't exactly targeting those when they complained about stem and sexism. There are quite a few female biologists, for example.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the whole "STEM and sexism" thing is bullshit though. The more sexist thing is the fetishization of STEM.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I love econ. Be nice if feminists read an econ book once in a millennia, free everything for everyone forever isn't sustainable.

Be nice if they read a thermodynamics textbook along with the econ one.

I'll agree that tech is in a bit of a bubble... in no small part no thanks to bureaucrats who see an industry doing well, and think that it's a slam dunk for everyone forever. So now you have huge tech initiatives in states because the government, unable to pick up an econ textbook and staffed largely by social justice warriors, has funneled tons of people into that industry because "everyone should know how to code."

As a coder, no, not everyone should know what I know. There are other, still valuable professions out there.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

a.) "Feminists" and "socialists" are not the same thing; further, there's cuts that can be made elsewhere to fund social welfare programs, and/or state-sponsored employment that produces value.

b.) The fuck do thermodynamics have to do with a sociopolitical movement?

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

"Feminists" and "socialists" are not the same thing

Well, no, but actually, yes

...further, there's cuts that can be made elsewhere to fund social welfare programs, and/or state-sponsored employment that produces value.

Possibly. And we could have that conversation. But right now what o hear from the feminist legion is "free family leave, great to college, free healthcare" and that's just the tip of it. Plenty also support things like Universal Basic Income, housing and jobs guarantees, etc.

There are not "cuts that can be made elsewhere" that could even fund the first batch of progressive political wet dreams, to say nothing of the second. You would need massive revenue increases and massively centralized government control - which do not comport with my view of the proper role of government.

This means that I disagree with you, not that I'm a horrible Nazi that hates poor people, minorities, and women.

The fuck do thermodynamics have to do with a sociopolitical movement?

Resources are limited

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude, my literal next-door neighbor is a conservative feminist.

UBI is a libertarian concept, that's always proposed in conjunction with abolishing all other government assistance programs.

As for family leave, universal healthcare, and free college, socialized healthcare is cheaper than our current system (real socialized healthcare, not Obamacare), and the rest, well, I don't see anything so wrong with Canada and Germany and they manage to pull it off (Germany used a neat trick where they stopped tying wealth to land ownership so heavily). There ARE cuts that could be made--for instance, cuts to corporate subsidies, and cuts to agricultural subsidies. And yes, raise taxes on rich people. They're appallingly low given how much the country helps rich people--they need to pay up.

And even socialist feminists know resources are limited. They just have a problem with hoarders.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Medicine isn't part of STEM nor is econ.....And yes econ does exist to these guys along with chemistry and maths.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Medicine isn't a science?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes but not a STEM major.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Biology? Again, if it's a science, isn't it STEM? You can't get into med school without a science degree!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Again, if it's a science, isn't it STEM?

It involves science its not a field of science. You won't find anywhere showing med school being part of STEM.

You can't get into med school without a science degree!

Despite you can and you don't need one. You don't need a science degree for any medical major least at the bachelor level. You may need one for medical research, but to be a nurse or what have you you don't need one.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nursing school isn't med school.

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Most pure science degrees like chemistry and physics are ponzi schemes now with few opportunities besides getting your ms, possibly getting your doctorate and teaching. Every time you hear one of the student loan complainers go "I even have a stem degree and I'm still working at mcdicks!" Its always one of those pure science fields

I've seen a different acronym that better described the in demand degrees but I dont remember it

[–]DaphneDK42King of LBFMs0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Chemistry? Germany are looking for tons of chemists. Pay very well too. Physics & mathematics have always been mostly jobs for university.

[–]muddyrose2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's funny, my chem prof was from Germany

He once showed us an experiment to illustrate gas expansion (I think) involving ammonia, it got out of hand. After the fumes cleared out and the class all sat back down, he quietly said "sorry for gassing you, we're bad for that"

Only the first few rows heard it, but we all lost it. He was a good guy.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

no one says this

Also your anecdote is bad, and isn't data, go virtue signal about things never said elsewhere: https://www.aps.org/programs/education/statistics/womenmajors.cfm

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Blah blah blah.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You probably don't even know what is "TRP exactly," and very nearly all of the self-described TRPers here have some of the beliefs that they adhere to, and some which they discard.

Either way, I provided data, you provided anecdote. Try try again.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Engineering colleges are flooded with women in Eastern Europe because the salaries are high.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

most of the discussion here is about the anglosphere west

[–]KV-n0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How come? Im studying engineering in cee and there are 2 women out of 20 students. When i studied it 5 yrs ago there was 1 in 30

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Engineering colleges are flooded with women in Eastern Europe because the salaries are high.

Cool. Women there can lead the way.

[–]muddyrose0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm in an engineering program

In my intake, there are 31 students. There's 12 women

The intake before us has 35, there are 17 women.

This is in Canada.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds good!

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, I don't see such trend in Moscow.

[–]reluctantly_red1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

coding and engineering

Two totally different things. Real PE's and code monkey's have little in common.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

who was saying they were the same thing? "and" is a conjunction that you use to join two things into one sentence. like say "apples and oranges"

tell me, little shadow, if i typed "apples and oranges" would you think i was saying they were the same thing?

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Apples and oranges are both fruits that grow on trees. They have quite a bit in common, even though they aren't the same thing.

[–]GridReXXit be like that15 points16 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

STEM to them strictly means coding and IT engineering.

Women love science. I’d even argue my experience with doctors is that women make better internists because they intuit bodily systems better than men. At least that’s been my experience as a patient. I’ve heard the same from men and women who deal with chronic illnesses tbh. The true root diagnosis is determined quicker in their experience.

Men seem to do better with abstract systemizing. They’re better at committing arbitrary “why’s” to memory. Women’s mnemonic devices tend to rely on “the why” ultimately being related to something meaningful.

When I’m learning a new coding syntax and the reason is “idk we just decided that’s the way it is” it’s just harder to make it make sense outside of rote memorization or application.

Chemistry and biology and math is way easier to me than coding. I was recently at a meeting with a bunch of women in data science and analytics and they were all light heartedly complaining that over the years that means having to learn python or R and we all hate it. It’s just not intuitive for most women!

Can we learn coding languages? Yes. Do we love it. Not really.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

Chemistry and biology and math is way easier to me than coding. I was recently at a meeting with a bunch of women in data science and analytics complaining that over the years that means having to learn python or R and we all hate it. It’s just not intuitive for most women!

Can't speak for other schools, but coding was a requirement for chem majors. In analytical chem, We had to be interface with the probes/other equipment and design and program chemical testing circuits.

[–]GridReXXit be like that4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I’ve noticed for most programs dealing with data now learning SQL, Python, R, etc is a required learning.

My friend just graduated from an environmental sciences and research masters program. Her thesis was on fuel something. Anyway she bitched the entire way that she had to develop a proficiency with R. It’s necessary for the amount of data / complexity of data she works with.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

I programmed in C++ and I bitched too. I don't like coding.

[–]GridReXXit be like that2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

bitches in solidarity

omg a pun!

[–]theposerskater1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There's a reason for that. Some problems are simply unsolvable without the sheer computing power that coding provides. Try to do protein folding or gene sequencing by hand.

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep it’s necessary for the volume and complexity.

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

STEM to them strictly means coding and IT engineering.

Mech, civil, electrical, systems, software, materials, aerospace, are all similarly male dominated.

The only STEM you will see women compete in is medicine related (bio/chem) or environmental.

[–]GridReXXit be like that4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Women love science!

You listed a bunch of stuff that’s not science :)

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yea none of that is based in physics or chemistry at all

Again you just reinforce the point that "women love science" is more accurately "women love biology/life sciences"

[–]GridReXXit be like that4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Life sciences is based in chemistry.

Chemistry lends itself to more than just mechanical engineering feats. If not my female PharmD friends would like a word.

And yep I won’t deny men have a proclivity towards engineering.

I personally prefer mechanical engineering and analytics to coding tho.

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Chemistry is the perfect example. Lots of women in pharma and medicine. After all, those are chemistry based.

So if women simply love chemistry, why are there so few in material science? It is every bit as much a chemistry field as pharma or medicine.

Women love components of science. I would personally wager they love fewer components of it than men, in general.

[–]GridReXXit be like that6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because men are more inclined toward building/acute understanding and women are more inclined toward healing/holistic understanding.

That seems to be the big picture gender divide tbh.

edit

Also seems to be a motivational driver. Lots of women in STEM genuinely are driven by this intrinsic desire to fix and nurture humans and the environment back to equilibrium.

Lots of men in STEM seem genuinely motivated to go out and create / build something tangible that relates to their legacy.

[–]Jackpot807Purple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can you remind me what STEM stands for?

[–]skittrix2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You made me chuckle, because it's true: I definitely don't love coding. I just understand it I guess, and was pretty much pushed towards STEM my whole life by my STEM parents who are all about "strong women". Honestly, if my fiance made enough money for us to live super comfortably without my income, I'd totally be down to be a domestic stay-at-home wife. However, we're both still young and like money.. and I have hella loans from my STEM college.

My point is that I don't love my job, but I like it enough that I'm cool with it. I know I'd probably be more fulfilled if I had majored in music, but college is expensive and I decided to take the route of a job that could repay my loans well. Such is life, I suppose. Sorry for this lengthy comment lol.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I’d even argue my experience with doctors is that women make better internists because they intuit bodily systems better than men.

My theory is that the women who would make decent STEM-students usually end up as doctors because (unlike men there) they tend to be above average intelligence-wise across the board, and hence pursue a field they consider more rewarding than pure STEM.

And since women usually like doing stuff with people...

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah I would agree.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, you get a lot (in absolute numbers, relatively speaking the vast majority of guys sucks at STEM-related stuff too) of guys who are reasonably good at the numbers stuff and are naturally drawn to math, or physics, or engineering, or (for the less intellectual types) becoming a mechanic etc., but aren't really that great at anything else.

(those rare women who can play in the same ballpark usually aren't able to do so because they're particularly gifted when it comes to STEM, but simply because they're bright women who have an easy time figuring out stuff in general)

[–]nemma8831/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Chemistry and biology and math is way easier to me than coding. I was recently at a meeting with a bunch of women in data science and analytics and they were all light heartedly complaining that over the years that means having to learn python or R and we all hate it. It’s just not intuitive for most women!

It's not intuitive for anyone, it's a language you have to learn, and learning languages takes time and effort.

And before the career is over they'll be 4 or so other times new languages must be learned >.>

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would argue some things are intuitive for some and not others. Intuitive doesn’t mean you blink and acquire the skillset in an instant. It just means you have a natural conception of it.

[–]reluctantly_red1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Chemistry and biology and math is way easier to me than coding

Not to mention more interesting. Computer science while certainly useful is boring AF!

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol I feel the same. But I’m like maybe those guys actually don’t find it boring.

[–]theposerskater0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I like to think of coding syntax as similar to grammar in real language. It doesn't make sense until you understand why it has to be there. For example, the reason why we have to end every line with a semi-colon in C is the same reason why we end every sentence with a period. It's used to mark the end of a statement. Which character we use to do that is arbitrary, the creator of C happened to choose the semi-colon (maybe because it's a character that people rarely use).

[–]GridReXXit be like that2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I really tried that. And I’ve worked with NLP analysis so I’ve even broken down sentences to their rudimentary parts for analysis. I love language! And writing and wordplay.

So I guess that’s not why I don’t like coding. I just don’t like it 😂

[–]theposerskater1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

When I first started coding, I literally translated the program into English language line-by-line lmao.

[–]GridReXXit be like that2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lmaooo I’ve had to do similar things.

Interestingly I don’t consider formulas in excel and tableau difficult. I guess I just know those languages and can immediately apply it to analysis.

Wish I started at 7 with coding languages I guess.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You like math: pure mathematics, or applied math?

[–]shadowkatBecky by day, Stacey by night13 points14 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I think biology students are more likely to be women than men, and chemistry is closer to equal... Usually the gender differences are much more apparent in the T part of STEM.

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

right. you get women in bio, chem, a couple in the more niche ones like enviro - the bigger ones like electrical, mechanical, civil, software have basically no women

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

The bigger ones like electrical, mechanical, civil, software have basically no women

The biggest problem is too many men. Women don't want to go where there are a lot of men because sexism.

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's fine, have whatever preferences you like. Just dont complain about earning less because of it

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

All I hear is excuses

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are the majority in biology.

[–]ReformedTomboyPurple Pill5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

STEM is code for engineering and comp sci. As a biochemist myself I hate the STEM circlejerk.

[–]EpikYummehLurker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You've got to admit, though, that programming is eking its way into various other parts of STEM. Simple scripting languages like Python and more focused scripting like Matlab and Mathematica are taking off as customizable tools for problem-solving rather than relying on single- or narrowly multi-purpose software applications.

[–]Christian_Kong80% Natural Red4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've been away from college for a while now but there are plenty of women in STEM, but most of them (to this day according to a few people I know getting doctorates in sciences) are foreign students.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

in computer science theres a few women like 1/5 of a class at most. honestly dont connect with women and don't mind much at all. I'm kind of terrified by large groups of women there is layer of politics involved in the group dynamics that I refuse to play along with and it usually ends up alienating me.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (12 children) | Copy Link

I'm kind of terrified by large groups of women there is layer of politics involved in the group dynamics that I refuse to play along with and it usually ends up alienating me.

Really?

My department is 80% women (hospital pharmacy) including all but one man in management. I have no issue and don't any weird "dynamics". It's just people doing their jobs.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Those are grown women, they're different.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

But AWALT?!

Most of the people here are adults and we are discussing adults.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

my last real experience with a lot of women was high school. And more recently my friend is getting married, I'm a bridesmaid and her sister in law to be and also in laws sister are a part of the party. They are so high drama all they do is talk gossip about the innerworkings of the grooms family and whos pissed at who. Even girls that like me think I'm weird so I'm really uncomfortable with it and a little scared of offending Amanda and Paige in someway because if I do I know it will become this big thing and I say offensive shit all the time.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

A lot of men don't like to be around weird anti-social people as well, myself included.

I never liked to hang out with the odd buried-in-computed types either. A bit to odd for me.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I just like to read and shit I dont really think thats odd I'm just not preoccupied with reality tv and shopping and I like to talk more about ideas than people.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

There a lot of women that don't give a damn about reality tv and shopping. I rarely hear about either at work, same with the women in my family. It's usually politics they want to talk about these days.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There a lot of women that don't give a damn about reality tv and shopping.

Yep. Like me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I dont live in nice neighborhood perhaps education is apart of it

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There’s a lot of weird odd men out there compared to strange women, so they have a social group they can create with each other. I’ve been the “weird” girl since forever and there’s usually only one of us, which makes making friends 10x as difficult compared to men.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wager there are issues you just don't know about them. When it comes to the medical field women there are discriminatory/sexist towards men. who are now the minority in that field for example.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

RN here, I’ve had the opposite experience. To be fair, Nursing culture is its own beast

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women do occasionally approach.

But nowhere to the point of men do though.

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks33 points34 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I don't ignore women's roles, I'm fine with them taking on and enjoying those roles.

What I HATE is the hypocrisy often associated:

"I don't want to go into STEM because my lady brain is just not interested. BUT MUH WAGE GAP!"

"I give IOIs to passively invite and approach instead of explicitly approaching myself. BUT MEN WHY CAN'T YA JUST HAVE MORE BALLS AND CONFUDENCE!"

"I enjoy being treated chivalrously and being treated like a Lady. BUT GTFO WITH YOUR GENDER ROLES I WON'T MAKE YOU DINNER YOU MANCHILD!"

"I don't defend my man because he is physically stronger and more capable. BUT THE ONLY REASON WOMEN CAN'T COMPETE IN SPORTS IS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T ENCOURAGED LIKE MEN ARE!"

INB4 women here on PPD say that all of the above examples are finge - go spend time with more liberal people.

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And that's why you never seriously date a girl who doesnt cook

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A-fucking-men. I'd argue that your first point is the root cause for all your other points. Maybe if you chose to be an engineer or businesswoman making six figures five years out of college instead of a victim studies or medieval Italian poetry major barely scraping by as a barista or waitress indoctrinated with regressive ideas about society, we wouldn't have to deal with this level of female solipsism.

[–]allweknowisD1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

All my friends are liberal and I’ve never seen anyone act like this, now what?

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It is obviously more subtle than the hyperbolic sentences I just wrote. However since you're a liberal yourself I'm interested to hear you argue the contradictory ideas (the part I put in caps) arent baked into the liberal agenda.

[–]allweknowisD2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why would I argue them? They only matter if people are doing both actions and I don’t see that at all

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ok so you think the attributes in the OP arent even representative of what women want? You think Smurf is projecting to other women?

[–]allweknowisD2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m discussing your comment. The discussion of hypocrites.

[–]krypticNexus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then your position is irrelevant to what OP is stating, which is that people complain women don't act more like men. Your issue is with hypocrisy, which I'm sure nobody likes.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not that conservatives don't have their problems, but I find that this is the beginning and the end of my issue with the left: They want <thing>, but they do not want the consequences of <thing>.

So, for example, the teachers union in California whined about there needing to be illegal immigrants in classrooms (muh social justice!)...

...and then promptly began bitching about classroom sizes (muh real-world consequences!).

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You are acting like these are the same people.

Maybr your issue is you date stupid low tier women?

As my gf makes me dinner and complains about none of that shit

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I see those sentiments in the same people frequently enough. I dont have any issue with people who dont hold both types of sentiment.

And yes I probably do only date low tier women however this isnt shit I've noticed specifically I "women I date" its like 40% of Millenial women in the first place lol

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its some %of women but other women find them fucking stupid too. It doesnt have to be all of some group is a certain way. Reasonable people are the majority

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Why Do So Many Men Ignore Women's Roles?

They aren't. But women themselves don't wanna do these roles and want to do men's roles. If women want men's roles. They should as well get the responsibilities. They are equals so they should take things equally, but that does not happen.

Also, more literally, if you see the newer generations, they know women are not doing their roles or men's roles correctly so men now learn both roles and do it too. As someone has to do women's roles.

Almost all men my age not only do the old women's roles like washing, cooking, caring and sewing, but do it better and more frequentluy than women of the same age group. if I were to guess, by the time this generation of boys being born get to adulthood men will be taking every role possible while women sit and relax. A literal inversion of Christ's time. Which funnily enough was said to happen by the patriarchs of the era.

It's clearly a trend, but what I'm curious about is why some young men are so blind to women's roles in society.

They arent blind. Just think that women should take the whole package if they gonna take men's roles... it is all fun and games when you take only the good parts. No? But if you gonna do it, you have to have the whole package or you become a hypocrite. "How nice that you are prepared to provide , self sacrifice and protect. What? You wanna receive provision sacrifice and protection from others, like if you didn't choose to do that jobs yourself?" Kind of thought.

Also.... how did you miss they are just considering women should do their work in its entirety, the good and bad parts? Didn't women pushed for it? These men have all the rights to expect this behavior. But you and I kniw they will never get the responsibilities yeah?

The most laughable example, IMO, are the guys who complain that women won't go for a blue collar guy, but themselves explicitly ignore the pink collar jobs that are the female version of blue collar - hair dressers, nurses, aestheticians, dental assistants, receptionists, etc.

Because most men do not like female roles. That is it. But look at these areas. The best of the best are always men. Men are going for these areas. It is just not everybody's choice.

Also, the men who go there not only take the whole package, but become the faces of their areas. Look at the best of the best. You will find a great deal of them are men (if not its entirety) even when they are less than a quarter of the professionals.

Can someone explain how some younger guys are so blind to this?

They aren't blind, you who is blind.

Take reality as a whole will you? And while at that.

Teach women to do the same.

Also... if you know portuguese, I am BR.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Most women still does not take male roles. E.g. engineering, many scientific fields, physical work, etc. There only are the minority doing that and I think the minority of women can approach either. That happens.

There are more feminine activities (and I would call these feminine ar all) than washing, caring, etc. E.g. manicurists are mostly women. Cooking is not feminine at all, cook is a male-dominated profession. I believe activities that any single (not dating) person must be able to do are asexual.

[–]Sprach_McGrachan4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most women still does not take male roles. E.g. engineering, many scientific fields, physical work, etc. There only are the minority doing that and I think the minority of women can approach either. That happens.

That's not really true either. Anecdotally, fully half of the warehouse employees here where I work are women, and that includes driving fork lifts, stacking pallets, and such.

feminism needs to change its tune, because women are not and never have been barred from the wondrous privilege of factory and warehouse labor jobs.

[–]aznphenix1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Almost all men my age not only do the old women's roles like washing, cooking, caring and sewing, but do it better and more frequentluy than women of the same age group.

This I don't see at all. I thought you were my age?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am in my mid to late 20's. But I also live in Brazil you have to remember that.

I imagine that many men here if they could they would pay for someone other than themselves do these things in the west. But our budgets are usually so strict we have to do it ourselves, (a house in Brazilia is as expensive one in the silicon valley region or manhattan). Our wives do not wanna help, our budgets are limited. Who else to do if not do it ourselves?

Oh. We also do other jobs like plumbing, electric work, construction, carpentery, metal work, husbandry, farming, painting, electronic repairing, for the same reason, but these we at least we were expecting to do. Not the women's counterpart too.

Almost all men in Brazil between 18 to my age do these all, we were brought up by the feminists of the 90's, we see our sisters and female cousin being lazy and full of benefits without responsibilities and marry and see how wives are avoiding doing their part of the deal. So we have to do it. We are not gonna let the house be a complete mess or the baby starve. But our partners may.

I do not think it will be that different from where you are in some generations. You see there were 3 generations between the feminists of the 60-70's and now as we have babies really early (around 19-23 in my hometown) . To you I think there was only one or two generations. For all intents and purposes you are experiencing now what my parents or grandparents lived. Your children who will live what I live. Not you yourselves. But you can see the children brought up now. What do you think? Are they like us today?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Women don't have a role. They're free agents and can do any ole damn thing they want and with whoever they want. Now do the right thing guys and make sure to register with selective service and be willing to defend these "ladies" in a battlefield. Its your "duty". Lol

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.1 point2 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Hi. Female veteran here. I've talked at length about it in the past. What's the point you're trying to make?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I made my point. Women need to be required to sign up for selective service,have the same strict dress code in the military,and required to fight in the frontlines.

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

The selective service thing is basically a non-issue for a thousand and one reasons but in the spirit of fairness, I'll give it to you. It's never going to be used again anyways.

They are held to a dress code, and in some ways the female one is stricter. I have no idea why you picked this element, but whatever. You want unisex? I mean ok but get ready for women to quit joining because they'd be required to shave their heads. Some still would, sure, but not nearly as many.

Front lines? Combat roles are now open to women. It's literally exactly the same process to join.

PT test? That's gender specific, sure. It's not meant to be a test of battle skills but of general fitness, and a fit woman will simply met different metrics than a fit man. You want to make it unisex? Ok but now you're actually asking to remove more women by virtue of strength testing that will favor men by immutable biology.

The thing is, the military is 100% volunteer in the US and they're not actually hurting for people. You want to see more women or less men? That is 100% possible given that nobody is forcing men to go active duty by Monday.

Given that, I'd never encourage any woman to volunteer. In my experience and in basically any data you care to look up, even if she outperforms men, she'll be looked over for promotion and advancement because it's a ridiculously male-centric environment. Women are oddities at best and unwelcome or targets at worst. So the numbers of female servicemembers, while slowly increasing, will probably not see any kind of significant sudden shift because there's literally no incentive.

With the exception of the almost-irrelevant point of the draft, there is nothing men are required to do in the army that women are not required to do as well to a comparable standard. To make the few differences equal would actually result in comparitively MORE men in the military, not less.

So what do you want? Someone to say "women should be subject to the same shit across the board?" Or "More women should be serving in the military?" For biological reasons it's impossible and silly to expect it both ways. Cuz, shocker, men and women are different.

Not to even mention, you're judging women by male standards in the first place. Like the point OP originally made.

**Edit: I should say, I speak from the perspective of the Army. I'm pretty sure it's similar in the AF/Navy. Marines might still be different in some areas but they're a weird bunch and almost 1 in 10 female Marines will be sexually assaulted by their comrades anyways, so it's pretty evident they ask more from their females than males. But you're probably going to tell me most of those are false, too.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Women need their heads buzzed when in the military. No more loch privledges. No more getting out of duties due to getting pregnant or anything else. As for selective service - if men don't sign up they're denied Pell grants among other things that women aren't for not having to sign up. Besides,your gender isn't the one being discriminated against so it's not up to you to say it doesn't matter. You speak as if the draft will never happen again but you don't know that. That's your opinion and it doesn't change the fact it's discriminatory. Yes,as long as women have all the rights men have they shouldn't be given special privledges so yes ..... across the board. It doesn't matter if we're biologically different. If men are required to do more than women (And they are) they deserve more rights. Since that's not taking place women NEED to have the fact that they're biologically different not take. Into consideration and forced to do everything a man has to do to have the rights we do because it's sexual discrimination for them not to be. With the rights to vote,own property,and to weild positions of power your gender forfeited it's right to both cultural and legal chivalry and being given a pass in more ways than one. I know what really needs to be done to make all this fair (which includes repealing tbe 19th amendment) but women will never go for it so - time to pay the price for your rights the same as men have to. Your gender isn't special when it has all the same rights. You can't have it both ways. Women are either equal or special but not both. And no. Those high numbers you claimed about women being assaulted by men are indeed exaggerated. Women are notorious about lying and likewise the vast majority of sexual misconduct between a teacher and a minor student is that of a female teacher.

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Besides,your gender isn't the one being discriminated against so it's not up to you to say it doesn't matter.

I'd like to know what evidence you have for this. The military is absolutely sexist towards women.

You speak as if the draft will never happen again but you don't know that. That's your opinion and it doesn't change the fact it's discriminatory.

I said I'd give it to you, didn't it? But yeah I'm pretty sure the draft will never be used again.

If men are required to do more than women (And they are) they deserve more rights.

With the exception of the draft, which I've said Multiple times you're right about, what are they required to do that women aren't??

With the rights to vote,own property,and to weild positions of power your gender forfeited it's right to both cultural and legal chivalry and being given a pass in more ways than one. I know what really needs to be done to make all this fair (which includes repealing tbe 19th amendment) but women will never go for it so - time to pay the price for your rights the same as men have to. Your gender isn't special when it has all the same rights. You can't have it both ways. Women are either equal or special but not both.

Ok dude go type up your manifesto for someone who cares. You obviously don't want to have a conversation, you want to preach. No thanks.

Those high numbers you claimed about women being assaulted by men are indeed exaggerated. Women are notorious about lying and likewise the vast majority of sexual misconduct between a teacher and a minor student is that of a female teacher.

You have literally no evidence of this. Whatever man.

[–]balancedben 1 points [recovered]  (10 children) | Copy Link

You're full of it. Women have more rights in the military than men. They get promoted quicker to fill their p.c. quotas,they have a more relaxed dress code than men, and they don't have to risk life and limb like men have to. Uoure he see is privledges and that's sexual discrimination against men. Call it a manifesto all you want but it's true.

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband[M] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Please debate in good faith.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm speaking against anti male sexual discrimination - nothing more and nothing less.

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband[M] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

To me it looks like you are refusing to debate with someone and discrediting their point based on gender. If you'd like a second opinion, please feel free to message the mods.

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You have no data to back any of this up. It's all in your head man.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not true. With equal rights should come equal expectations.

[–]v3r16 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Men don't and never have ignored that role. A percentage of women HATES their own role and is indoctrinating the rest of society into the "men and women are the same" which is bullshit.

You are dealing with the excess of the modern feminist ideology. It isn't fun right? Everything that held society together is unraveling and young boys are completely lost. Because now young boys need to be smart, but not a smartass. They need to be kind and just. But also bad boys when needed. They need to be a gentleman but take care not to open the door to the wrong woman or you will get berated because she is independent and doesn't need help opening doors. They need to be softhearted but strong. Manly but also have that sensitivity that is usually presented on women.

Our society tells girls they are born perfect and tells boys they need to control themselves not to rape. You want to know what is wrong? It isn't men.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

is this just with the older millennial generation or something? I’m gen z (17) and an older man opened the door for me yesterday, and i said thank you because it’s socially expected.

Also I agree with you that young men are lost, but it’s mostly due to them consuming mindless media that rots their brain like porn and hours of video games. The percentage of boys in my AP classes has definitely dropped over the years, but more are deciding to do jobs like blue collar work that don’t require any type of higher education.

[–]v3r10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Porn and video games come in at a later date. From the start what they see is what the media shows, and the media shows an outraged at men where everything half related to masculinity is toxic. Look, most people will say thank you if you hold the door, but some won't, and the problem isn't that they are rude, it's that they are rude because you are a man.

Young men are lost because they aren't allowed to have role models that are MEN. They can only have role models of overly sensitive men that care more about woman's issues than their own.

Boys are lost because they have to strive for a perfection the world tells them they have to but will never have. While girls are born blessed with feminity which today equates to perfection.

It isn't literally like this to grown ups obviously, but to young impressionable minds, it sure is more and more.

Men are still responsible for most of domestic violence, a fact that must be accepted so we can do something about it! But in younger generations it is different. Some of the same but I've seen an increasing amount of young men being abused by their girlfriends, constant slaps in the face etc because they think they can and he won't hit back.

We need to find a balance.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie14 points15 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I get everything you say and agree, but every woman should defend their man. It doesnt have to be physical, but you better be ready to go to the stand and lie for me bitch.

Otherwise this all is straight.

[–]SmurfESmurferson[S] 14 points15 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I was referring to the physical, because you're right. But that's how women fight - socially, verbally. Most women will go to bat for her man that way

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

+1

[–]classylassy28 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

I physically fought for my husband one time he was in a fight with a guy and the guy head locked him and i jumped on the guys back and kept punching him lol. I'm only 5 2 and 100 lbs it was hilarious after the drama was over.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Any woman that wouldn’t at least try to do this I don’t wanna wife them. Seriously, who wants someone that would just stand by and cry?

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Nope. I am not lying on the stand and taking the fall.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't really intend to be a defendant any time soon either, its more an expression than anything.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Now Atlas will do that but nope not me.

[–]bonslytossChaste Opinionated Weirdo3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Can someone explain how some younger guys are so blind to this?

Younger men are at the lowest SMV of their life, and women their age are at their highest. It causes a sort of backlash, because the man has to work really hard just to have a pitiful success rate. So, in online forums where men feel safe, the young men will complain. The older men will give them tough love and tell them things get better with age, but the younger men won't believe it before it happens.

As an aside, I think women should do everything you mentioned. Women should approach a few times if only to feel the sting of rejection and the thrill of acceptance. Women should stick up for anyone in a situation where they would want someone to come to their defense. Women should have a concept of honor, albeit not a masculine one. Women should pursue their dreams and career goals, even if that goal doesn't fulfill a traditional imperative.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Younger men are at the lowest SMV of their life

False. The majority of young women who have boyfriends are with young men. That's who they want. Young men have sky high SMV.

[–]bonslytossChaste Opinionated Weirdo2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to couch most of what I'm about to say as purely anecdotal.

While most women don't consciously realize their SMV until it takes a nosedive, it takes a short while for them to realize the abundance of male attention they receive in their youth. When most women lose their virginity at the national average age of 17-18, it is to their high school sweetheart. These relationships usually don't work out by the time the woman goes to college. Once the relationship is over, she has to beat off male approachers with a stick. Depending on the woman, she may have a lot of ONSs, a few casual dates or STRs, or get reeeeeeeally selective.

The young men 17-18yo are the only ones who can date the 17-18yo women without going to jail. Unless he preselected a 17yo who wants to get married young, the chances of him making it work once they go to college are slim. The 19-24yo men in college then fall into one of the other three camps. I would argue that the men who only have ONSs and STRs barely qualify as "boyfriends." The men who can date the women who are reeeeeeeally selective are by definition not the majority. Thus, I claim that 90% of men 17-24 don't have the SMV to get anything serious out of women in their age range. They are either forced to compete with every man all the way up to 39, or to settle for STRs and ONSs.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh come on, be serious now. Few women aged 17-24 are with men aged over 30. Those men are mostly not in the running. Possibly 20% of men aged 17-24 don't have the SMV to get a girlfriend but the rest do.

[–]bonslytossChaste Opinionated Weirdo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I actually mostly agree with you, to be clear I think you're right that few women are with men over 30 until they get to their late 20s, and also that most men 17-24 can get a relationship. The breakdown is in two places.

Firstly, I think I have a different definition of "girlfriend" than you do. When I think boyfriend/girlfriend, I think of two people who are proud to call the other their own. They make their relationship public on social media and see each other exclusively. My observation has been that men can easily "pick up a chick off Tinder," but less than 20% of my male friends have had an exclusive relationship by the time they turned 24. I would not be surprised if your female friends have told you otherwise, but if you ask young men, they will have a long yarn to share.

Finally, I recognize that I have an uncommon and deeply personal view that men need to struggle so we can build. It makes it hard for me to see your side, and I'm trying really hard, but it's difficult for me.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The majority of young women who have boyfriends are with young men. That's who they want. Young men have sky high SMV.

Compared to women, they're definitely at the lowest of their life.

Sure, the upside is that their natural counterpart are the most coveted women. But when it comes to getting women in general, an adolescent or young adult man has it worse than any other male demographic.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Compared to women, they're definitely at the lowest of their life.

Not in the eyes of women. I seriously don't know what standard you're going by. Young men are the ones young women want.

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can someone explain how some younger guys are so blind to this?

I'm not a "younger guy", but you folks promised that given equal opportunities, you'll show equal outcomes; that any possible reason men and women don't behave the same is because women somehow "aren't allowed" to behave the same as men (and don't start with the whole "male behavior is not the standard" bullshit - one of the core ideas of "female liberation" was and is moving away from female condition that is believed to consist of UNfreedom towards freedom that is believed to be the male condition). You were believed. You lied. Billions upon billions of resources were poured into your lies. You declared it a literal heresy to believe that men might maybe not be completely replaceable by you. And you kept it all up and going for 227 years, under a banner with one, single word: "MORE". More welfare, more opportunities, more sacrifices, more leniency, more accomodations, more-more-more-more-more. Richard Lynn got his emeritus status withdrawn because he is and always was a proponent of gender differences in general intelligence. DOZENS of other, less prominent professors faced the same or similar fate just in recent several years. You've elevated just pronouncing "women's role in society" while being a man to the level of almost a criminal act.

The best word to describe the imperative of someone who expects to be treated like a precious royal family child while wreaking havoc for quarter of millenium - is "chutzpah".

Short form: men don't appreciate women as women because you aggressively told, and keep telling them, not to.

The most laughable example, IMO, are the guys who complain that women won't go for a blue collar guy, but themselves explicitly ignore the pink collar jobs that are the female version of blue collar - hair dressers, nurses, aestheticians, dental assistants, receptionists, etc.

You mean that they don't date women in these jobs or they don't work in these jobs? - The latter is simple: they don't pay enough to support yourself, let alone yourself and someone else. The only people who can afford working these jobs - are the ones who have someone taking care of them. Which is why they are female-dominated.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat21 points22 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

In sociology this is called androcentrism--the explicit favoring of the masculine, as opposed to men. The jobs thing is a particularly pointed example; you see all over reddit Bob the Engineer who makes 80k complaining about Mary in HR who makes 100k and is considered not to be doing "real work". And yet, suggesting Bob simply go into HR himself if it's such a well-paid cakewalk is regarded as intolerable.

[–]AnonoForReasons 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

You shouldn’t just make things up.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. Hr directors only earning 100k? Pfft. Come on.

[–]WestsideMoonWalkerChonks Pheel the Phonk0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

HR generalists can make up to 80k at the upper bound, roughly.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

HR directors

[–]Jackpot807Purple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What?

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But then the entire field of social science wouldn't be able to reduce universal truths about humanity using a study with a sample of 50 college women from Berkeley!

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And yet, suggesting Bob simply go into HR himself if it's such a well-paid cakewalk is regarded as intolerable.

HR is intolerable. They work for corporate so they aren't really a part of our family.

[–]WestsideMoonWalkerChonks Pheel the Phonk3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reddit has a hate boner for HR, especially the right leaning subs from what I've seen. It's a bit ridiculous to me given that I am dating an HR person who is the opposite of how HR is characterized on here.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually it's a question of "if we get rid of engineers or HR which will bring the company to an instant halt?"

The answer to that is HR... and HR can be largely automated, far more easily than the engineers.

[–]ascended-cel-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What does androcentrism have to do with this post?

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's the reason feminine roles are ignored or dismissed.

[–]goatismycopilot 1 points [recovered]  (16 children) | Copy Link

Because they feel like it. AMALT. My job is more physically active than an office STEM and while I have not been to war I guarantee I have seen more blood, intestines, spray, injury and non pleasant death than 95% of people in PPD. All of these men saying laaaaaaaaaaaaydeeeeeeee people no get drafted bad, bad, bad probably could barely make it through boot camp themselves never mind one of the actually rigorous training schools like they need to stop that bullshit.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

All of these men saying laaaaaaaaaaaaydeeeeeeee people no get drafted bad, bad, bad probably could barely make it through boot camp themselves never mind one of the actually rigorous training schools like they need to stop that bullshit.

THIS. They also conveniently ignore that the US hasn't used the draft since Vietnam, and moreover, that The Dreaded SJWs are generally in favor of abolishing it altogether.

[–]NiceGuyNumber40 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

When's the last time there was an attempt to get rid of the draft?

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

When's the last time there was a need for it? Or is it closer to getting crimes like cattle rustling and adultery off the books?

[–]NiceGuyNumber40 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

The fact that men can't vote or receive government assistance without signing away their bodily rights while women do not is pretty fucked up. It would be like if the government could force women into state run prostitution.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well then, surely there should be a movement to abolish the draft, which would be most potent if led by its primary victims. Also, not everyone is American.

And it's closer to if there was a law potentially recruiting women for state-run dangerous labor, but it hadn't been used in half a century.

[–]NiceGuyNumber40 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The state would choose men for the dangerous labor. I picked something women are actually better at. The point isn't whether the law is currently being used. The point is that it could be used tomorrow.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women may be "better" at having sex with men, but they are certainly far worse at having sex with gay guys or straight women. My male sex worker friends would concur.

And it really does depend on the dangerous labor in question--women are notably better at some of the delicate machine work involved in the quite dangerous production of explosives, for instance.

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You’re a dude?!?

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah I messed up I thought I was posting in auto mod nation sorry lidless I will delete.

[–]EsauTheRed 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

No wonder you're so cold and fucked up

Also what does it matter if your job is more physical, the median man is still stronger than 99% of women, no amount of physical labor is going to change the impact of testosterone and man's potential

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I am not saying I am stronger than a man of course I am not and nor am I woo special any RN in a critical care area has seen what I have seen.

[–]EsauTheRed 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Nursing and law enforcement are known to fuck people up

Seeing that every day play

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Leading a cloistered life with no challenges and no opportunities to pause and express gratitude makes people fucked up and weak for a different reason. Anybody here who thinks the immigrant women who came to North America in the 19th and early 20th centuries and farmed with their spouses or assisted in building business were soft, agreeable, compliant, and traditionally feminine are semi retarded and deluded.

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

These women were certainly more feminine (and stronger) than the mentally ill socialists and SJWs that many modern women are.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some of the harsh difficulties they faced in very difficult circumstances they were stronger physically and mentally, yes. Women on the frontier/settlement areas were not agreeable, submissive, or compliant those are the people who died. I might be misunderstanding what you mean by feminine. You probably do not know what you mean.

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Be civil.

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the younger generation is being educated to believe women and men are the same. Some people don't understand that, men and women are different and should be treated differently.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I never encounter your bottom paragraph - guys complaining about nurses or hairdressers not going for them . I encounter guys upset hot girls won’t go for them but not girls with specific jobs

[–]CainPrice1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nowadays, the younger the man, the more feminized he is.

A guy who is 20 today was born in 1999. Wow, I feel old.

Many, many guys in that generation were born to guys like me, just a few years older. Mild-mannered, laid back, non-masculine, dudes who got nagged to hell by their strong-willed wives and followed the get a STEM degree and a good job path while being super-nice to women and eventually one of the women they were friends with would want to date them.

So a huge portion of guys who are 20 today were raised by weak-willed men like that, or in many cases, absent men when their strong-willed wives divorced them. They grew up eager to please mom and keep her happy, went to school where nearly every teacher was a woman and continued to grow up conditioned to obey instructions from woman authority figures, and were taught the fairly logical liberal concepts from a young age that women and men are pretty-much the same except for the plumbing.

They get out the other end and are surprised when women aren't just like them but with boobs and longer hair, and that women like real men instead of men like them.

[–]throwawayhouseissue1I talk to strangers1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The good news for those boys is that they are getting red pilled. For me, (I am 36) it took forever to get any kind of information. I saw those nice girls I wanted to date going after Chad and Tyrone (who didn't give a shit about them like "I" did \cringe*) meanwhile I had no clue what was actually going on and why girls didn't like me even though I was kind, had a good job, tall, and everything *I thought women wanted.

[–]CrestfallenWolf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Our mothers, teachers, babysitters, news, ads, other men, movies, books and female peers: men and women are the same!

Men: why aren't women the same?

Women: men are so dumb, why don't they understand that we are different?

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The women should approach thing is just men who don’t want to step up trying to make it easier for themselves.

[–]atm487Purple Pill Man, Leaning Blue2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I still stand by the fact that most excuses and reasons given for why women shouldn't approach are mostly BS, and they're generally shitty "unspoken rules"/expectations (and mostly unnecessary).

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It’s the same exact reason men don’t like approaching: rejection is scary.

[–]atm487Purple Pill Man, Leaning Blue0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Ok? I still think it's mostly bullshit that people (mainly on PPD) fall back on the excuse that "it hurts us more". It still hurts like shit to get rejected, atleast for more shy people, and it's still pretty scary. Why does it automatically default to men exactly?

[–]decoy88Black Male in London2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I was agreeing with you lol.

It’s the status quo. I see the reason many women fight to keep it is out of fear. Sure they can say “woman just don’t do that” but they mean “I don’t want to look like a fool trying to do that” do lean into the standard social expectations as a sort of protection.

If the roles were reversed men would do exactly the same because everyone wants to avoid the hard stuff.

[–]atm487Purple Pill Man, Leaning Blue0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Apologies.

I still think it's something women need to consider though. Women cant really just say "welp, sucks to be you" (they don't usually outside of this sub and r/RPW) and accept a female privilege. Obviously I believe women aren't actually that privileged, and there's a lot stacked against them and a lot of benefits that men have, but in recognizing male privileges I think it's worth it to consider that women do have some privileges too, and in a fight for supposed gender equality it's Paramount to point out the privileges that both sides use and exploit and want to continue.

I agree that if men were in the same spot, they would probably do so too, but i think it's more that societal expectation and development of that idea through socialization, rather than people's natural want to not do hard things

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

When I talk to women offline they are reasonable and acknowledge their privilege. The few that don’t are the weird ones that actually believe having a dick makes ‘shyness’ work differently. But that’s few and far between.

I disagree with your last part. Humans are definitely lazy. Technology is only a thing because we’re constantly building tools that make it so we don’t have to work as hard to accomplish the same tasks.

[–]atm487Purple Pill Man, Leaning Blue0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Typically on the rare occasion I talk about this with girls, theres mostly either a recognition of the privilege after a few kind-of-not-really excuses, or a back and forth after that on the privileges and disadvantages of women and men in the dating sphere, so yeah, generally speaking this complaint or declining of privilege is mostly online, but its worth addressing.

I can't really agree to this part about humans being naturally lazy though. Humans get bored pretty easily, even with the shit shoveled to them to keep them entertained and preoccupied, people still enjoy doing something fulfilling with their lives and arent just lazy and complacent with stuff naturally.

[–]RoyalAugur922 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Why do so many serfs ignore the lord's role?

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

That too, is a legitimate question. But irrelevant to the sub unfortunately.

[–]RoyalAugur920 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you?

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I've never gotten complaints.

[–]RoyalAugur920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, well, birds of a feather and all that...

[–]ascended-cel2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Younger men aren't blind to this, they're just confused as to why women get to keep these social advantages in the dating aspect of life whereas men have lost their social advantages in other aspects of life.

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I told my wife when she quit her job when we were having kids, she had one job (outside of said kids) and that was to stay hot.

And thats how I've always seen a womans role in relation to myself. She does a lot more but that is gravy. When she started to put my needs and hers, on a lower priority because she took on so many other voluntary responsibilities we had to fix that shit.

I think the problem for a lot of young guys is they get fed a line of bullshit about women being the same as men, but also still see women get favors on top of it, so they get understandably pissed off. Its like Jr. MRAism.

But they are focusing wrong. Forget the septum pierced purple haired harpies, they don't matter. Find a woman who respects you and they will fall into their natural place with you and you can be happy together.

Don't look for your equal, if you are good you will be looking for it your entire life, look for you complementary woman who fits what you do with what she does.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Fuck that I either find my equal or stay single

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I suppose it depends on your level but financially that wasn't practical for me.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wasn’t thinking financially at all but I’m more working class. Everyone else on this sub seems to need that bougie life

[–]shonenhikada2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"The most laughable example, IMO, are the guys who complain that women won't go for a blue collar guy, but themselves explicitly ignore the pink collar jobs that are the female version of blue collar - hair dressers, nurses, aestheticians, dental assistants, receptionists, etc."

You lost all credibility at this point.

[–]-TheGreasyPole-Pissed Off that Reddit Admins killed my old account2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hi Smurfy,

I think you got your answer. As far as I can see from this thread you got the same answer about 50 times.

I agree with it. A huge part of what I do talking about Evo Psych and RP on here is de-programming guys and gals from assuming "Men and Women are the same".

They're not. But society tells everyone they are. It's the message everyone hears all their childhood these days and internalises.

And everywhere there is a difference... society basically says "Oh yeah, the patriarchy programmed that in through social conditioning. Once we achieve fem-topia that will disappear and we'll be exactly equal, even this will go away".

Absolutely nobody in society will admit that men and women are inherently different, and should be held to different standards and responsibilities. Thats verbotten. Migoynist Talk. Proof you're an unreconstructed sexist. A tool of the patriarchy. Even though it's just the basic truth abut reality, and it needn't imply anything other than strict legal equality.

As a result we have whole generation of young men and women that think "basically, under the hood men and women are the same" when nothing could be further from the truth.

This is especially true in any area related to sex. Thats where we are the most different from each other that humans get. It literally takes RP to teach guys different. And we're reviled for doing so.

[–]WhisperTotally LARPing. Really.2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can someone explain how some younger guys are so blind to this?

Because they haven't been taught.

When your culture insists, for ideological reasons, that there are no inherent differences between the male and female brain, then it cannot turn around and acknowledge those differences by teaching young people how men and women behave differently.

Orbiter "niceguys" are really just men who are trying to attract women by doing what would be attractive to a man. They don't know how men and women are different.

And there are a lot selfish, manipulative, slutty women out there who are just trying to attract men by doing what would be attractive to a woman.

[–]darksoldierkPurple Pill2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men are being and have been forced to take on more "women's roles" where as women have gotten to cherry pick the parts of men's roles that they want and reject the parts that they don't like. This is what men complain about. Either you want equality or you want to act like a lady, you can't act in a broadly brushed lady like way.

Men are left to pick up the slack of women's choices. For example, a woman gets to choose if she wants to work or not, and men pick up the slack for that. If she chooses to work, then her husband is expected to and forced to pick up the slack at home by equally sharing in chores, despite the fact that he, statistically speaking, is likely to be working more hours and more strenuous jobs. If a woman chooses to have a baby, it's her male co-workers who have to pick up her slack and her share of the workload (keeping in mind that despite the fact that the workload may be distributed among men and women, women get to take maternity, men don't, therefore, it's men who are actually picking up the slack". In terms of dating, the term "explicit IOI" is subjective, not objective. An Explicit IOI for one woman may not be considered explicit for another, and for men (who bear the legal risk of misunderstanding an invitation), it's even less clear.

Men are better equipped to protect their families physically, but men have been brainwashed by our society to not use their physical advantage for much of anything. The ones that do risk being reprimanded by society. For example, I can tell you right now that if a woman comes at me with a knife, I'd probably freeze and not know what to do. One the one hand, if I protect myself and she gets hurt, the law will probably send me to jail for assault or overuse of force or some shit. On the other hand, she's coming at me with a knife. You, as a woman, don't have that problem. You can pick up a gun and shoot her in the face, the law will side by you ten-times-out of ten. So, in fact, it's women who are better equipped to protect their families.

In terms of STEM, if it was accepted that men's brains are better suited for these jobs, than there wouldn't be an issue. But the problem is that women are blaming all men everywhere for "sexism" because women are not choosing to go into STEM. So the logical response from men is "well, as there isn't any sexism in the workplace, maybe it's time women get off their asses and start pursuing these jobs, otherwise, they can shut the hell up".

The difference between men ignoring "pink collar" jobs and women ignoring "blue collar" jobs is that there is the bias in marital law. See, if the woman dates and marries a man with blue collar job, she is significantly less likely to lose half of her finances ESPECIALLY if they have kids. On the other hand, if a man making 200k a year marries a woman making 30k as receptionist, marital law will take him to the cleaners when they break up. There is a very real risk for men and that risk is a deterrent, whereas that same deterrent doesn't exist for women.

It isn't that men are blind to this, it's that women are blind to how the world is today. Women are privileged. They enjoy a great number of benefits at a lower cost then men do. The risk for men is higher for almost anything in today's world.

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

if a woman comes at me with a knife, I'd probably freeze and not know what to do.

This actually happened to me once. You should have seen the look on her face when I took the knife away in less than three seconds (one of the few times I actually got to use my defensive tactics training).

[–]bonusfruit2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Because women have been clamoring for mens jobs( only the high paying safe cushy ones), earnings, positions of power and authority. But women are never eager to take on mens obligations, burdens, or responsibilities. That's why.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

LOL, don't get out much do you? Today I was installing a real estate sign at a house under construction, a real nasty pole hole to dig as the builders had spread slag over the topsoil, I guess to keep their equipment from sinking in the mud. Meanwhile there was this little Latina gal on the construction crew, working on the roof of this 2-story house, carrying stuff up the ladder on her shoulder. That's Girl Power for ya, baybee!

When I finished putting up my signs for the day, I went in to my farm job and milked 90 cows. :-)

[–]bonusfruit2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh dear. One anecdote. Guess I'll retract my point altogether

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't listen to me, son; get out in the world and look around a bit.

[–]badgersonice2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There have always been men around who view women’s roles as lesser. There’s nothing new at all about men who ignore, downplay, or downright insult women’s roles and contributions to society.

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I dont know why this gets glossed over so much. Women do approach guys. The guys that complain women never approach are just guys women dont want to approach. Just cause it doesn't happen to you personally doesnt mean it doesnt happen

[–]MrHerbSherman🤠 howdy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My guess is that it’s a response to hearing women gripe about not having the benefits obtained from doing those things, or from hearing women claim that they want equality

[–]AffectionateCamera1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

explicitly ignore the pink collar jobs

You must be joking.

Most men don't give a flying fuck about a woman's job. Well, unless she's a sex worker of course.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's clearly a trend, but what I'm curious about is why some young men are so blind to women's roles in society.

They are not blind. They simply demand equality. They are just being "feminists" basically.

[–]ReformedTomboyPurple Pill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most are blind because they watch too much tv and refuse to open their eyes. They let platitudes and cliche govern their world view of hardcore evidence.

[–]reluctantly_red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

hair dressers, nurses, aestheticians, dental assistants, receptionists, etc.

One of these things is not like the others -- nursing is a real profession that requires real education.

[–]throwawayhouseissue1I talk to strangers1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can someone explain how some younger guys are so blind to this?

I think everyone wants life to be easier. We want lots of money, we want good relationships and sex, and we want to feel validated and respected. I don't think it is such a problem for people to project their expectations for society into a medium people can see it and debate it.

[–]Bntt891 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because women a feminism is slowly trying to destroy those roles. So men get confused and think that women don’t actually fall into these roles. Very often though feminist use the word equality wrong, women do not want to be equal to men they just want to be treated like decent human beings.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

ROTFLMAO I thing all the married nurses, hair dressers, aestheticians, etc. would like to have a word or two with you. Or three. Also, IOIs? LOL come on, there's no risk associated with that. No one's going to laugh at you if they reject that. Because IOI is so easily plausibly denied. It's ambiguous.

We're not blind to this. We just know it's a chickenshit life to lead.

[–]Jackpot807Purple Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Approach

Defend their man

Be chivalrous

Pursue STEM careers

I'm gonna try to tackle these issues specifically.

Approach

The current sexual market (i'd say dating, but you guys seem to rather call it sexual market) is as follows: Women get to chose, all men are simply equatable to 'merchandise' for them to pick the best of. Black pill? Well it's reality so I guess reality is black pill. An average man stands no chance in today's market. Absolutely no chance. They will be shot down hundreds of times. Even me personally, I have only gotten two proper conversations in tinder. And I indiscriminately swipe right. Maybe tinder's a bad idea since the dregs of society go there but whatever. Time after time again, a man is expected to approach, and time after time again the man is shot down. This isn't a macroscopic problem, it's an individual problem. The confidence dies, the will to try again dies. It's just gonna be like last time. Why try?

Defend their man

Are we talking about physically defend them from attackers? While I personally would wish for my partner to do that, I could chalk it up to them being to weak to do anything to not help, that situation is out of the woman's control and I can accept that. But if we're in the context of, say, a friend of your partner rags on you, and she doesn't defend you? She is not your partner,end of story. You will never convince me otherwise.

Be chivalrous

You first.

Pursue STEM careers

No one cares if women pursue STEM careers other than screeching radical feminists and corporations. What the average woman does care about, though, is the 'wage gap'. Men on average take up the riskier jobs and the more thinkier jobs. Women stay in the service industry and offices. This is coming from a man who's been in both sectors, blue collar, white collar and pink, with some army experience mixed in - the service industry is a fucking drag, but risking being melted by molten steel and getting blown up by an IED is a whole other level and if there is a wage gap, I stand by saying it is completely justified.

[–]rabbitholemystery1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminism. Is that not obvious?

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As a not-so-young-anymore man, I have a few things to say about my expectations regarding the behavior of women.

Approach

It would have been awesome if women approached, but I have come to terms with the fact that women rarely ever do (it makes sense after all, why should you approach

I just wish they would stop complaining that it's sexist society and slut-shaming that prevents them from approaching; and also stop pretending that getting unwanted attention from men is the worst thing possible, because I as a guy with a long history of not being approached by women (and simultaneously being adverse to approaching women, among other reasons because I was constantly told how awful it is) would have a few words to say about this.

Be chivalrous

This is something I don't expect of women either. In fact, the first women who transparently approached me and tried to win me over also invited me over to her place to cook for me. Back then (early 20s), this has totally caught me off guard because I had had the message that women hate hate hate doing woman stuff for men, and that having a woman cook for you makes you a sexist patriarchal pig (you can guess where I got that message from).

So no, I never expected women to be chivalrous, I didn't even expect them to be nice. And today, I still don't expect them to be chivalrous, but I certainly expect niceness.

Pursue STEM careers

That issue stems (...heh.) from the feminist complaint regarding the lopsided gender balance in STEM, or the gender pay gap. I don't expect women in general to pursue STEM careers, but I think it's a perfectly valid response to dumb feminists who can't fathom that one particular field with in-demand and well-paid job is predominantly male without interference of the patriarchy.

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[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer8 points9 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Why do women expect a male to “get” every indicator of interest and act upon every single one.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because we are more hyper aware of social nuances and expressions than men are.

With my boyfriend I felt like I was practically throwing myself at him, everything short of asking him out, and he still wasn’t sure if I liked him or would say yes.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Again. If you think your IOI was seen by a man... It probably wasn't. Many men do not notice most IOIs.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do not, most normie women understand men are dense and literal.

[–]SmurfESmurferson[S] 3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I don't. But I expect them to know that they exist

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

They probably know they exist and just do not care or misinterpret it. The men on here know it but they are just being stubborn and using it as a ”if feminists say we are equal why do I have to approach” as a “gotcha” moment.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

With equal rights comes equal expectations. To expect men to exclusively approach women in this egalitarian day and age is misandryist. Nope. Women don't get the benefits women in time's past got since men don't get the benefits men in time's past got. Time to require females to register with selective service,buzz their heads,and fight in the front lines 😆

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

With equal rights comes equal expectations.

Now I disagree. You are not expecting the same behavior from gays as from straights. Despite that they have equal rights.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol a different scenario all together but I get your point.

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why does equal rights come with equal expectations?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because whats good for the goose is good for the gander. No one is special and deserving of the same rights as another without having the sane requirements of them. Another example - if I order the same steak dinner at a restraunt as someone else they shouldn't have to pay less than me because of their gender,race,religion,and etc. In today's world women vote,own property,and weild positions of power as men but aren't required to register with selective service,buzz their heads in the military,or fight in combat. That's misandryism and should've been eliminated from the legal system decades ago.

[–]whatyoucallaflip 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

”if feminists say we are equal why do I have to approach” as a “gotcha” moment.

Other than the fact that it's absurd in practical sense, the internal logic of the statement is pretty sound

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The only problem with that premise is that you assume that feminism's claim of promoting equality is true at face value, when in reality it's much closer to "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs...now pay for MY needs or you're a misogynist rapist #metoo"

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’ve read many feminists that do feel somewhat guilty about not pursuing equal personal relationships.

And from an outsiders perspective it does appear contradictory. While it’s physically possible to be an abolitionist slave owner, I think that is contradictory, no?

If you believe in the legal equality between the races, then you shouldn’t be a slave owner if you also don’t want any sort of criticism on those clearly contradicting things.

[–]Thounumber1meow 🐈 *hisses angrily* 🇮🇳0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The problem is if a IOI is misinterpreted, it can be really awkward.

[–]amber2240 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's because alot of men are bestowed certain roles at a young age,that they might or might not have wanted,and when those when that did not want those roles rebel against what society has ordered them to do,they are treated badly.Some of the roles include taking care of you wife and kids,feeding your wife and kidsand many similar roles just like that,even though I'm a women,it can kind of understand why men have a chip on their shoulder about women having it easier,ithough that is still not an accuse to be misogynic abusing POS.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel you are asking "What is a millennial" .... is this purple pill jeopardy?

[–]czerdec0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It feels like you're not exactly steelmanning the very best of your opponents' ideas.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You know those people who complain are not the majority. Minorities always are in demand for minorities.

[–]statsfoddernot blue, not red.0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because they are taught to ?? You can't have the left pushing its agenda on main stream media and then not have it affect people.

[–]Sprach_McGrachan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can someone explain how some younger guys are so blind to this?

Because a some younger guys do not believe what women say about generally anything. And, there are a lot of traps for men to fall into which they can not really get out of.

[–]TheBookOfSeilAn ounce of Snu Snu is worth a pound of cure0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think men consider “roles” in society to be cultural roles, and not innate characteristics, and therefore changeable or malleable.

I agree in some aspects but conflating cultural behaviors with innate sexual behaviors shows a lack of understanding between the two, and that’s where I think these men fall in the argument.

[–]Thounumber1meow 🐈 *hisses angrily* 🇮🇳0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

OP why don't you explain some of these IOI's and let's see what the men think of how obvious they are? I feel like sometimes they are not exclusive to attraction (e.g. people do it to friends too) and there's a high risk of misinterpreting them.

[–]_whybother0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Womens roles hardly contribute to society and instead focus on her and her childrens quality of life. Mens roles contribute to society at large.

Men are producers and women are consumers

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I treat everyone equally. I hold everyone to the same standard regardless of what genitals they own. There are a ton more similarities than there are differences between us. And most of the differences would have very little impact if we didn’t keep impressing upon them due to identity crisis.

[–]staringatsilence0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

M23: I would date a woman with any of those jobs? I just would like them to have a job that makes them happy/ fulfilled. I swear, what is happening to men and women? what happened to love? I think men and women are complimentary, they always have been, whats wrong with that? Like i dont know about most guys, i just dont get off on having power over a woman. i get off on loving a woman who also loves me.

[–]The-Wizard-of-Oz-0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Feminists" "Gender Equality" "complaining whiners"

[–]DaphneDK42King of LBFMs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

pink collar jobs that are the female version of blue collar - hair dressers, nurses, aestheticians, dental assistants, receptionists, etc.

Is that actually a thing? Never heard anybody avoiding such women. I'd certainly have nothing against it. Nurses would probably be a no, since they have lots of at odd hours.

[–]MisterJose0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My approach has always been: Pick one. You can be super-equality feminist, and as long as you walk it and talk it, great. Or you think and act otherwise. The thing that irks me is inconsistency and hypocrisy. I can't listen to women complain about things being unequal, and then say STEM fields are boring, for example. So, if you have a consistent belief system, awesome, I have no problems. But I see so much inconsistency with these things - usually a combination of a few feminist sentiments that sound good, coupled with behavior that doesn't match.

[–]Naebany0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah It'd be nice if women aproach, but good looking women doesn't have to, and you get points for approaching them so it is what it is. I had women approaching me, but guess what, they were fat and/or not that attractive. So they were forced to do the approaching. Top tier women that men want approaching don't have to do that so they don't.

Well they should defend their men. Maybe not physically, but yes.

STEM careers? I see feminists ramble about that all the time. What men want women who is in STEMs? I don't care id she's in "pink collar job" as long as she can provide for herself, we're good.

[–]DragoonXFury22 Yr Black Virgin Skater Stoner Anime Nerd NPC0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

"STEM is something that appeals to the "problem/solution" male brain"

Even is this is true, there is a considerable minority of women who are into STEM which can't really count out as "outliers".

Putting that aside, I could care less about whether a job is "blue" or "pink" collar. The truth is that if I was incredibly good at being a hairdresser, then I would do that and be rich of it despite how women or men perceive me because of it.

I don't know why men care so much about this stuff when it comes to women. Oh well.

[–]Raii-v2The Best Pill is Gold0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because I wouldn’t look down on a 9/10 with a pink collar job making 35k a year busting her ass.

As long as she is supportive, has a banging bod, and wants the same things as I do out of life then there’s no issue.

A woman’s career is largely unimportant to men because we don’t seek out “ability to provide” as a trait in our partners

[–]korkyshadow0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

all of those are counter arguments to women saying men don't do X. You wanna complain about wage gap? go into stem. You wanna complain about chivalry is dead? why can't you be chivalrous? You wanna get that guy that is above your league? You probably need to approach. You want your man to defend you from other people/his friends? Why don't you defend him with your harpy friends? I don't know a single "pink collar" girl without kids that doesn't have a man.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

women demand gender equality or traditional gender roles depending on which one benefits them the most in any particular situation. the very same women who expect men to pay 100% on dates will bitch about some imaginary "pay gap."

like many questions on PPD, the answer is that women are self-centered hypocrites. AWALT.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait why can't women Be chivalrous corteous or pursue STEM careers?
Does having a uterus exempt them from social norms and socio-economic trends?
The growth of STEM is the great equalizer and women's pushback to try and turn "Emotional Intelligence" into a thing is failing.
Female CEOs are, in fact, even more ruthless than their male counterparts.

As more men start to wise up the pussy pass is being denied in more places.
Look eastward to japan and south korea, because THAT's where US society is headed.
There will be cultural differences, obviously, but life in the big cities will more closely resemble the cut-throat way of life of those places.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

OP, make a male social media account or whatever and post about women's roles. Don't use the word "we", use the word "they". Should clear things up for you.

Men who openly talk about womens roles being anything other than what the PC mainstream feminist consensus says don't last long on this side of the overton window. Either they issue a retraction fast or get branded thought-criminals and life a life of political exile.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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