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So in the top quality thread from a few days ago about how only red pill guys respect women two commentators were arguing about how only red pill guys are capable of treating women like responsible adults. They do this by holding them accountable for their own choices. And claiming that the other guys just don't hold women accountable for their own choices hence those women never have the results of their own choices and they never grow up. They remain permanently children.

Reading this strikes me as very weird because all kinds of women I've known for my entire life all, universally, suffer the consequences and reap the benefits of their choices. Overeat and you get fat. Devote time to the gym you get fit. Go to college, get a degree, get a career, have a career. Have unprotected sex with a shit guy when you are a teenager end up a single mother. Date with better future planning and end up married to a good man with a good career. Drive drunk and high get into an awful crash and get sued by five people, declare bankruptcy.

I mean there's no end to this list. Women always suffer the consequences and reap the rewards of their own choices. No one else becomes a single mother because some dumb teen fucks a thirty year old junkie. She does. She suffers life long consequences for it. She uses drugs herself and becomes a junkie? I don't get hep C from this and suffer liver failure. She does.

In any event one of our esteemed commenters decided to clear up the discussion in the classic red pill fashion. By appealing to authority. Hence he cast summon level 5 /u/whisper. An authority on terpism by advent of steroid use, brogramming, taking mma classes, and having a truly high value perma-girlfriend he refuses to marry but has threesomes with who hangs out over at red pill women.

Here is where whisper shows up for us to respect his authority

So he drops a red pill knowledge bomb on us pretty quick;

It does not matter what "should" happen. It matters what will happen. Believing that women "should" act a certain way will not make them any more likely to do so. If you want to make a behaviour more likely, you must incentivize it.

This is a fancy way of saying that people respond to incentives. Nothing controversial here. Yes, yes we do.

YAC, /u/yetanothercommenter, a long time user I used to have discussions with in online dating forums, and a purple piller, responds to see if red pill king whisper can clarify. He says;

Treating women as rational adults and therefore holding them accountable will change the incentive structure women currently face.

I'm not sure what this means because women already are held to account for their decisions by reality itself. But perhaps reds in general mean that they have poor boundaries and have struggled to hold the women in their life to account for crossing their boundaries. That's the only thing that makes any sense.

And of course the blue pill is well aware that having weak boundaries and being unable or unwilling to enforce said boundaries is a real problem for a lot of men and women. This leads people to get into and remain in unfulfilling and even abuse relationships. It leads to their partner not respecting them and even walking all over them!

Real serious relationship problems can arise from weak unenforced boundaries. Hence if you have this difficulty we suggest therapy, self help books, positive daily affirmations, and asking for support from your loved ones and partner.

What does king whisper have to offer from the vast truth of the red pill?

First he gives us this:

Human beings, both male and female, have a hardwired instinctive protectiveness towards women (and women only), to the point of shielding them from the consequences of their own actions, and rationalizing this away.

The old white knight phenomena. I'm not sure if whispers here or the other terps realize that feminism seeks to empower women to assume full responsibility for their lives. And that the blue pill ridicules white knights left and right. Indeed I spend time ridiculing their ridiculous outdated paternalistic behavior all the time.

Sure a lot of terps are white knights trying to move past this outdated sexist behavior but rather than do so from a feminist perspective of seeing women as equal to men they have gone another route. As we will soon see.

Men grow up into rational adults because we are held accountable for own actions. Women don't because they aren't, and they never will be.

I'm not sure what world whisper lives in here. I've already laid out how reality itself holds women accountable. And tbh it's been pretty rare for me to see a white knight in action in RL. And women find white knights repulsive anyway. So while a woman in need may take advantage of a white knight temporarily she will never want to spend significant time with him.

So we have the blue pill that says reality holds women accountable for their choices. That we have decided as a society to embrace feminism and allow women to make their own choices, which they then suffer the consequences of, and to discard the old outdated and embarrassing white knight man. Women will grow into responsible adults because we no longer hold them down, but hold them to account just as men.

Red pill king whisper's plan to hold women accountable in this new post-patriarchal world?

So what's the solution? How do you get women to behave themselves?

Simple. Treat them like children. You don't expect children to figure out what is acceptable behaviour. You tell them. You don't expect children to monitor themselves and call themselves to account when they fail to live up to that. You hold them accountable. You don't expect children to avoid bad behaviour because of an internal sense of fairness. You punish them when they have been bad.

Ahh see it's all so simple!!! Want women to mature into accountable adults who take responsibility for their own choices? Treat them like children! Order them around! Tell them what to do! Punish them if they do not obey!

And there's no need for men to nurture strong boundaries, or learn self love and the ability to enforce their own boundaries. Men don't need boundaries at all because women will not be able to even choose to test or cross a man's boundaries! If she does not obey her orders she is to be punished!

Here is only one example of how the red pill gets it beyond completely and totally wrong because of their rampant misogyny where women must be overgrown teenagers because authority figure Schopenhauer wrote this down when he was an angry teenage boy mad at his mommy. The men don't get given advice to grow and mature and the women are commanded to not grow and mature.


[–]Barely-moralMostly red though44 points45 points  (85 children) | Copy Link

Ok. I am going to play devil's advocate here.

Reality holds everyone responsible. No argument there. Reality gives consequences to both men and women in the same way.

Now... society and other people... that is another story. See the wage gap myth. Women decide to work in jobs that pay less, work less hours and tend to stop working when they are pregnant/have children. Those are decisions. Reality provided the consequences. But society finds excuses, it is not because women make decisions it is because patriarchy and opression.

If you buy the idea of the wage gap, then when a woman has less money than a man it is not a result of her choices and she should deal with the consequences... it is because she is a victim and we should protect that victim.

Can you see how even if reality provides the consequences society can play a huge factor to mitigate those consequences and to change the way people/situations are percieved?

Another point. About the solution provided by whateverhisnameis.

there's no need for men to nurture strong boundaries

Men would need to have strong boundaries in order to define "bad behavior" and punish/hold women acountable.

women will not be able to even choose to test or cross a man's boundaries!

Women would have the choice to do so. They would be punished afterwards. The man still needs to have boundaries or she will cross them because there is no consequences for doing so.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 8 points9 points  (42 children) | Copy Link

If you buy the idea of the wage gap, then when a woman has less money than a man it is not a result of her choices and she should deal with the consequences.

Very fair critique. I don't buy into this extreme victimhood feminism. Neither does my wife. I push back against it and I see this myth harmful to women. I do all of this while remaining a feminist. But yes, this is honest and I accept that we need to push back against these harmful myths.

Men would need to have strong boundaries in order to define "bad behavior" and punish/hold women acountable.

Everyone, man and woman, will have a more fulfilling life with strong healthy boundaries. I think we agree here. The red pill discards this completely and instead somehow claims that you don't need boundaries you just treat women like children and punish them if they disobey. And that by doing this women will grow into mature adults somehow.

[–]Barely-moralMostly red though11 points12 points  (33 children) | Copy Link

I prefer to steelman my opposition.

In order to treat women as children you would have to treat them as you should treat children when you are doing it right.

You have to have boundaries and be able to defend them when you are treating with children. If you don't have boundaries and the kid can do anything, he becomes spoiled. If you are just a pseudo tyrant and force the kid to obey arbitrary rules that not even you are living by, the children learns nothing but to try not get caight by you.

Strong boundaries and being fair and good at communicating is something you need if you are going to deal with children in a way that is healthy. Then apply the same principle to "treat women as children"

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] -1 points0 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

Then what exactly is meant by treating women like children? Is it just a way to insert misogyny to be an edge lord and get attention?

[–]korkyshadow7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No it means you don't appeal to logic and reason you just try and make them accept the situation. Like with the wage gap, people are now trying to say it's 58c on the dollar. You can show these people study after study, fact after fact they will not change their minds to the point they even conflate the issue. You don't try and change their minds you just try and get them to accept it. You don't get stuck in a why loop with kids and you don't get stuck in a "where should we eat" loop with women, you pick a spot to stop and go with it. People stop growing up when they don't need to grow up anymore and for women it's very easy to stop at the high school phase these days.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Very few men or women have their minds changed. They are too ego invested into whatever belief protects their own ego. None of this stuff you are saying has anything to do with women other than you singling them out.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes but women vet men by testing things like their boundaries. They want to know that the men they're with can protect them. Hence the shit tests. There's no way a guy can get away with having no boundaries. Women don't respect men with no boundaries, otherwise their beta orbiter doormats would be getting laid. As such, a man has to be willing to say no sometimes and that means sometimes having a parent child dynamic.

Women are also quick to point out that their men are like children and no one has a problem with how insulting that can be. But RP takes the view because it makes it easier for men to make decisions when she isn't being reasonable. It would be great if he could simply find a woman who doesn't behave in a way that requires him to treat her that way, but they're called unicorns for a reason: they don't exist.

Otherwise nice alone would work. But women don't want nice. They want partners who are superior to them in one way or another, are strong enough to protect them and some even outright say they want men to take care of them. Considering what women want, and how many of them want to be taken care of such as when they have kids and quit their jobs, we'd be doing serious mental gymnastics to not acknowledge the contradiction of women wanting someone superior, but claiming they're equal in certain dynamics.

A man is not going to openly admit that treating her like a child works because it implies they're inferior, weak and cannot be responsible for their own decisions. But there are too many examples of women complaining about this dynamic creating a power imbalance (men can do more damage! women shouldn't suffer any negative consequences!) where they display these traits. I mean, if a woman wants a man who is taller than her and earns more, she's indirectly acknowledging her inferiority in height and earning potential herself.

She cannot simultaneously hold the position she is equal but demand her partner be better. This is why men have to have boundaries if they want their relationships to last. Treating her like the oldest teen is a way to ease anxious men into a leadership role and see their women as beings who need protection, and who admire them for their superior traits, whatever they may be. It's not an excuse to be abusive. Why women jump to the conclusion that kid = being treated like shit, I don't know. Kids are supposed to be protected, cared for and loved. Abusing them is not seen as a good thing.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

a man has to be willing to say no sometimes and that means sometimes having a parent child dynamic

I say no to my wife, to my friends, to my brothers, to my father, to my boss at work sometimes, and they say no to me. That doesn't make it a parent child relationship.

Women are also quick to point out that their men are like children and no one has a problem with how insulting that can be

Some women point out that their husbands are acting like children. That has nothing to do with an ideology that tells its adherents to treat adult women like children.

The rest of your comment is either stuff I don't think requires an address or it's been addressed elsewhere in the thread

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I have a older male colleague who has an all female staff, ages 26 to 50. He was having a hard time dealing with their bizarre reactions to situations and work. I told him that mentally they are basically like 14 year old girls and to think of them as such.

He's thanked me on more then one occasion. It's helped him deal with his staff tremendously.

BTW this was long before I read anything rp. It was just personal observation. I'm lucky my wife is very logical for a woman, she has her moments, and I've told her the same about dealing with her employees. It helps but she gets frustrated expecting women to be logical and I remind her by saying one word.

"children"

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why children? Why not just say "emotional"?

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because as parents we've had children and it puts us in the right mindset.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A person who is not used to dealing with "emotional" people will find that advice useless. May as well tell them "Just be yourself".

People who understand how to deal with "emotional" people, will not need this advice.

Im one of the guys who treated women as one of my guy friends (ie logical) it got me nowhere in life. However instead of TRP, I got more help from "Men are from Mars, women are from Jupiter".

[–]YetAnotherCommenterPurple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Then what exactly is meant by treating women like children? Is it just a way to insert misogyny to be an edge lord and get attention?

I don't like many of the excesses of TRP rhetoric, and I am quite opposed to seeing women as incapable of rational choice. However, you need to keep in mind that TRP rhetoric is often therapeutic. Its a way to encourage men, who from day one have been raised to be chivalrous and essentially see women as angels, to de-pedastalize women.

You may fairly ask why such extreme rhetoric is even necessary in the first place. That's a fair question, but the indoctrination into chivalry and "be nice to women" etc. is not negligible. Its quite strong, and its reinforced by widescale social norms including women themselves.

So you shouldn't necessarily take the rhetoric in an entirely literal fashion.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I haven't seen any evidence of this we widescale pushing of chivalry and white knighting into boys. It's definitely not something I teach my sons either. I think it is more of a natural male instinct and something that boys who have very little success with women early on can drift towards.

If claiming women are children helps break this negative cycle does it not also create a new negative cycle of misogyny? Would it not be not only just as effective but more effective to just teach men to create strong and healthy boundaries, to respect women's boundaries and other men's as well, to enforce their own boundaries, and to be able to negotiate with them?

[–]YetAnotherCommenterPurple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I haven't seen any evidence of this we widescale pushing of chivalry and white knighting into boys.

How old are you exactly? I had it drilled into my head and I was born in the mid-to-late 80s.

It's definitely not something I teach my sons either.

Good for you.

I think it is more of a natural male instinct and something that boys who have very little success with women early on can drift towards.

Interesting that you, a feminist/blue pill type, would suddenly defend gender essentialism when doing so offers you a way out of accepting that MAYBE some cultural ideas in our society disadvantage men and benefit women...

If claiming women are children helps break this negative cycle does it not also create a new negative cycle of misogyny? Would it not be not only just as effective but more effective to just teach men to create strong and healthy boundaries, to respect women's boundaries and other men's as well, to enforce their own boundaries, and to be able to negotiate with them?

Now that's a very fair and reasonable claim!

And in many ways I agree. But here's the thing... IF you don't dismiss "social indoctrination" out of hand, you realize that for some men, "shock therapy" becomes necessary.

Sometimes, to correct the overdose of "women are angels," a little bit of "women are demons" is needed. I wish that weren't the case, but it seems to be the case at least for some.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

I'm not some gender warrior here. I'm like a decade older than you. I thought you reds believed that men and women are different, you acknowledge that it's choice that prevents sameness in wages but then these comment sections get filled up by MRA types screeching about how the isn't sameness in these other categories so we must get to the sameness. While somehow being opposed to the wage gap sameness.

I'm not saying you. You didn't do that but these other MRA types can't shut up with their hypocrisy.

I'm not about advantaging women. Equal rights, equal treatment, freedom of choice.

Perhaps some shock therapy could be the shocking claim that women are people too, and they aren't some angel or something. You know like feminism does push. If we just ignore everything mainstream since all mainstream media is just a narrative building joke to control the little people anyway.

There's no need to push misogyny or claim women are inferior. Why can't we just explain to men that women are just people, and that men should build strong boundaries and enforce them in their relationships?

Learning that and doing that has led me to far more success than thinking women are inferior in some way like if one of my children had brain damage so he grew up but retained a child's mind. Women don't have child minds they have adult women minds.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not some gender warrior here.

Then why act like one?

You didn't do that but these other MRA types can't shut up with their hypocrisy.

You do realize RPer's aren't MRA's right?

I'm not about advantaging women. Equal rights, equal treatment, freedom of choice.

If that's the case then you be all for removing all women's scholarships for colleges then. And removing laws that say women must be a certain percentage of board rooms. Federal money that only goes to female victims of DV also applies to men. Things like consent be taught to women as they are (well more so shoved down the throats) to men.

You know like feminism does push.

Feminism doesn't in the slightest push what you are claiming to push for. Feminism is about women's issues, always has been and always will be. No matter of bullshit you say is ever going to change this. As until feminism also address men's issues and does something about them saying feminism is about gender equality is bs.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

My goodness the straw man has left his motte and bailey to spam comments at me. Late night bro?

[–]YetAnotherCommenterPurple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I thought you reds

Look at the flair. I'm purple. I've said this repeatedly.

I'm not saying you.

You said 'you' several times and I quoted this.

I'm not about advantaging women. Equal rights, equal treatment, freedom of choice.

I'm all for those three things.

Perhaps some shock therapy could be the shocking claim that women are people too, and they aren't some angel or something.

For some people such a claim isn't enough to cure them of their pedastalization.

You know like feminism does push.

LOL. Feminism has for decades been pushing woman-as-innocent-victim narratives, and ever since Carol Gilligan its been jumping on the glorifying-toxic-femininity gravy train.

There's no need to push misogyny or claim women are inferior. Why can't we just explain to men that women are just people, and that men should build strong boundaries and enforce them in their relationships?

If our culture consistently pushed that message, there would be no problem.

The problem is that the mainstream of our culture pushes "women are perfect angels."

In that context, we need a strong counter-message to dislodge the pedastalization.

Women don't have child minds they have adult women minds.

I agree entirely. Which is why I oppose the idea that women are children. I prefer to treat them like adults and hold them responsible for their actions.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok I'll stop calling you red. I haven't seen your comments in years and when I used to read them you were red and I mostly saw them at online dating places.

I don't think we should counter one set of narrative building lies with another set of toxicity. Another problem a lot of guys face, at least the guys here at PPD, is that they don't assume responsibility for their own lives and their egos are out of control. Pushing a counter narrative that women are actually inferior under beings of some sort may help them stop white knighting, but blues learn to stop this behavior as well by the blue side ridiculing white knights relentlessly. It's quite clear that both sides of this debate know that women innately despite white knights and that they promote the type of patriarchal male superiority that we have moved away from. White knighting is now always done from a servile position.

The guys around here who are struggling don't need more women blaming, they need their egos busted up and to realize that they are not better than all women. And sorting people into all men and all women is just a crutch they use so they can refuse to look at their own individual position and realize that they are pretty trash and that's their problem. Not that they need to take women from a pedastal and put them into the sewer. They need to take themeselves off of that pedastal and realize they are pretty low on the totem pole.

Indeed there are all kinds of mgtows around here who absorbed this women are trash counter narrative and now all they want to do is jack off and play video games while claiming they are gone and simultaneously begging one of us to take on their sick counter narrative and save them from their despair. They will even make OPs just asking someone to please take on their absorbed counter narrative. Since they don't have the tools to do so themeselves.

Pushing back against misogyny and pushing normal basic feminism seems like a good place to start. No women aren't evil, they aren't out to get you, the crazy things the mainstream media pushes don't represent real women, but yes women are not angels, they aren't any better than men, they are just people too.

[–]Barely-moralMostly red though4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I can't speak for all people. I am sure there are ways to apply "treat women like children" in a way that is hateful towards women. I will not defend those interpretations.

"Treat women like children" was useful advice to me when I found it.

I form my boundaries. I started enforcing them. But the change that was more specific to the "children" part of it all is that I no longer expect adult behavior from women. When I do find adult behavior on them it is a pleasant surprise and I will respect the act. If the woman in question acts like an adult all the time she will gain my respect. But when a woman acts in a way that is more appropiate to a child (something that I find quite common, even in miss moral) I no longer am surprised nor pissed off about it. I just treat her as I would treat a child. It is on me to be the adult, I have to make the boundaries respected, I have to be coherent with my own rules and be an example on how to follow them. I have to make consequences happen if the behavior requires them.

My relationship benefited from that change. Miss moral changed for the better and respects me more because of it.

Whoever sees a child and thinks of him/her as an inferior being to be controlled is someone I don't respect. And I am sure that the men that see children in that way will take "treat women as children" in a different way that I do.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

It is on me to be the adult, I have to make the boundaries respected, I have to be coherent with my own rules and be an example on how to follow them. I have to make consequences happen if the behavior requires them.

I find that this paragraph is written in a strange way. I'm going to rewrite it so that it makes sense to me. Please correct me if this changes the meaning you are trying to convey.

It is on me to enforce my own boundaries. I have to be coherent with my own rules and be an example on how to follow them. I have to make consequences happen if the behavior requires them.

Because that's basically the blue pill healthy boundaries suggestion.

My relationship benefited from that change. Miss moral changed for the better and respects me more because of it.

Good to hear! I had very poor boundaries with my ex wife and our relationship suffered greatly because of it. Mrs beachredwhine on the other hand has repeatedly stated how much she respects me for my strong and healthy boundaries, that I clearly communicate, and am willing to negotiate with as well.

My relationship benefited from that change. Miss moral changed for the better and respects me more because of it.

I mean at this point the whole women are children thing just looks like teen edge lord larping. Might as well subtract the misogyny and join the blue pill!

[–]Barely-moralMostly red though6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

There is an aspect of "treat women like children" that you are not adressing. I expect women to act like children. I expect the to fail to act like adults. Even if I treat both men and women that fail to act like adults in the same way, I am thinking about men and women in a different way. I know it is a sexist way of thinking, that is the reason I make efforts to keep it as a tought that does not affect my actions. But that sexist way of thinking makes life easier for me, every single time that I see a woman not acting like an adult, I no longer see a negative reaction in my mood, it is what I expect, so it is business as usual.

Might as well subtract the misogyny and join the blue pill!

Subtract the misogyny sure.

Join the blue pill... Not untill the blue pill treats men that fail in the SMP with respect and provides them with actionable advice and a place to express themselves, ask questions and vent without judgement... so never. I am staying purple.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

every single time that I see a woman not acting like an adult

So we were talking about having strong and healthy boundaries and then you state the above. Am I correct in reading this to say that she challenges your boundaries? That she tests them to see if they are firm and if you will enforce them?

that sexist way of thinking makes life easier for me

So it's not just an edge lord misogyny thing but that you find you are better able to enforce your boundaries if you choose to think that women are lesser than you are? But you don't actually believe it?

Not untill the blue pill treats men that fail in the SMP with respect

Fair enough. I do not have respect for the misogynistic whiners because

provides them with actionable advice

I have provided more actionable advice than you would believe. I've devoted coming on a decade of my spare time to promoting actionable advice. There is a set of unsuccessful men whose egos are out of control, who exist in such a state of cognitive dissonance due to those egos, that I can not help them.

In this case a place such as married red pill where older men will tear their egos apart are a much better starting place if they are ever to grow. Or even a guy like /u/gaylubeoil telling these absolute units that they are worthless losers. They will have to overcome that male ego before they can accept the advice I am happy to offer.

And frankly I think there are a lot of guys who will just have to hit rock bottom. It can take a long time to hit rock bottom.

[–]Barely-moralMostly red though3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So it's not just an edge lord misogyny thing but that you find you are better able to enforce your boundaries if you choose to think that women are lesser than you are? But you don't actually believe it?

I find it easier to keep my calm around women acting like children if I think about them as children. If I think about them as equals, then I end up close to hating them for acting in an immature way and doing it so often.

I do believe that women and men are equal, but it is hard to treat an adult with calm and respect when it is acting like a child. So as a tool to deal with women acting in an immature way, when I see one acting like a child, think of her as a child.

I have provided more actionable advice than you would believe. I've devoted coming on a decade of my spare time to promoting actionable advice.

I believe you and I don't think that you are the only one doing it. But if non red pill spaces were that good at solving those men's problems TRP would have never existed. There are not enough people like you in "the blue pill".

There is a set of unsuccessful men whose egos are out of control, who exist in such a state of cognitive dissonance due to those egos, that I can not help them.There is a set of unsuccessful men whose egos are out of control, who exist in such a state of cognitive dissonance due to those egos, that I can not help them.

No one can until they hit rock bottom and accept the advice. I agree with you on this one.

EDIT: MASSIVE FAIL ON MY PART. Changed "treat her as" for "think of her as"

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Appreciate the debate! I've got to check out for a bit. Spend some time with the family.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Got any good comments on actionable advice in your post history I can look for?

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

No not on this account.

[–]BlindingTwilight 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

You realise that women laugh at men who use the word misogyny? You are making a complete fool of yourself by trying to stand up for the rights of a group when you are not a member of that group. Red pill men and feminists agree on this one point, there is nothing so contemptible and facile as a male who pleads for female rights. Here is one article by a feminist, feel free to read through this one or the other 10-20 articles published every year by feminists saying how repulsive they find male feminists:

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/indepth/opinion/problem-male-feminists-180712071916509.html

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh noz someone is laughing at me!! Don't go NPC on me bro. I get enough of this "did you see the TV man laughing at insert current bad man here?" Gee whatever will I do please don't tell my wife and kids and family that someone is laughing at me whatever will I do.

[–]mathlel 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

How do you react to a woman that believes that a wage gap exists? Do you confront her or hold her responsible in any way?

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I've never met a woman who believes this bizarre equalist sameness. It's only men in here spouting this garbage. Which you meninists never bother to hold in check while you screech "Jessica Valenti said something in some shitty blog somewhere!"

[–]mathlel 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

That's just frankly wrong. My mom, my girlfriend, my girlfriends friends, my own female friends and the mainstream media all believe and keep pushing the gender wage gap narrative. Surprisingly the only woman that rejects the idea is getting her masters in physics.

Nothing in my reply pointed to anything related to Jessica Valenti (who I don't know anything about, is she part of some pizzagate?), bizarre equalism or meninism. Can you stay on topic for once?

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Stay on topic? You mean stay on whatever topic you have wandered over to? Sure I'll give it a try this morning while I finish my coffee.

I'm sorry to hear that your girlfriend is a sameness equalist. I can't really push back against your girlfriends beliefs though you will have to do that. I don't think it particularly matters though. Some people even believe the earth is flat. People believe all kinds of things. I don't see what your girlfriends beliefs have to do with my argument or my beliefs

[–]mathlel 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

How do you react to a woman that believes that a wage gap exists? Do you confront her or hold her responsible in any way?

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I have never ever met any woman who actually believes in the wage gap. In fact I know personally one of the women who posts here, and has posted about the wage gap, claiming it's real to spark discussion. And I know that she personally doesn't believe it either.

No one actually believes it. If I met someone who claimed it was real I'd tell them that I don't believe in equalist sameness. Then I'd mostly ignore them. I mean I can't endnotes imagine a real woman saying this to me. I'd probably laugh at them tbh.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And yet you feminists claim its real all the time....

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill3 points4 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

Devils advocate back.

Men work more dangerous jobs because they pay more money. Men make bigger risks with their health and wellbeing. All concious choices that lead to a higher amount of men dying. Would you still not see this as something worth addressing or talking about? Or just say that men dying is the result of their choices and leave it at that.

[–]dontdoitpleaseno2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or just say that men dying is the result of their choices and leave it at that.

Men in general are very happy to leave it at that. The problem arises when feminists complain about lower wages for women but not about the reasons for those differences e.g. men dying more often. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[–]Barely-moralMostly red though4 points5 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

It is the results of men choices. Men took the risk and they pay the price. There is nothing to adress. At least nothing that applies only to men. We can talk about improving work conditions but that would apply to all people that are taking those risks men and women alike. It is not a gendered issue.

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill4 points5 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

I agree. Mens workplace deaths and injuries is not inherently a gender issue. But that hasn't stopped many other men here from trying to make it one. But then again, the argument could be made that work place safety improvements would mostly benefit men more than they would women.

[–]Barely-moralMostly red though8 points9 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

the argument could be made that work place safety improvements would mostly benefit men more than they would women.

The improvement will benefit workers. It is not gendered.

The fact that no one cares about a group of workers because those workers are male... that is another story. A story that will not change. No one cares about men as a group. Not even themselves.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷2 points3 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

And do you know who could easily implement measures to make these workplaces safer for men?

The men who run those companies.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's definitely a class issue. I think modern rulers have used male vs female and even race stuff with the growing white nats and the pretty much fake astroturf BLM stuff to prevent class awareness.

The top of the top people are regularly fcking over everyone else.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Racial profiling by law enforcement is not fake. The data is all there for anyone who wants the facts and not the faux snooze version.

Class profiling of poor whites is also growing but less talked about. As it gets worse (gotta feed the prison industrial monster) it will be interesting to see how whites react when their own are being consumed by the same monster. Same old story.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They will blame woman obviously.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Privatized prisons are a cancer on this country and it frustrates me that both sides of the political spectrum ignore major issues like this because the voters are too stupid to see what's actually hurting them.

[–]Barely-moralMostly red though0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. Men don't care about other men.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

So basically women should have to care about men but men shouldn’t have to care about men?

[–]Barely-moralMostly red though0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

There is no "should" for anyone.

I am just saying that men don't care about other men so expecting men to solve other men's problems out of charity is delusional. The circunstance in which a man helps other men is when he can make money/status while doing so.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

If we had a class identity then we could care about working class laborers and how the ruling class has been busy fucking over everyone below them for two generations. Instead we have a hundred and one other identites that prevent any kind of cohesion or fighting back against the ruling class.

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

You can take every precaution but some jobs have risks inherent to the work.

Electricians get electricuted despite precautions. Fishermen, etc. And everyone has a bad day where their attention span is off.

An office worked can never get themselves killed at work, despite some serious attempts otherwise.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

You must not be American. Office shootings are becoming as common as school shootings.

But the point here is if the manosphere wants to tout higher rates of dangerous jobs and workplace deaths among men, they need to direct their anger to the right source. Feminists are not running those companies that are cutting safety corners and undermining workers rights.

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Feminists are not running those companies that are cutting safety corners and undermining workers rights.

I think you've misunderstood my point. There's only so much you can do to ensure safety at dangerous jobs. There's always an inherent risk. A risk which has little to do with what people are doing or not doing.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I work a very dangerous job. People die at my work. Injuries are common. Their is A LOT that could be done but it would cost money. If my company spent that money to make us safer the competition would not spend it, thereby putting us out of business through competition in the market.

But if there were laws that said every company had to enact such safety regulations then every company would do it and nobody would go bankrupt. Unfettered capitalism leads to a race to the bottom. We need regulations badly.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes because only men run those companies.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean I work a job like that. I do it to make money for my family. This doesn't really have anything to do with my post though. If it interests you perhaps make your own.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reality holds everyone responsible.

Despite it doesn't.

But society finds excuses, it is not because women make decisions it is because patriarchy and opression.

So it because of boogieman's.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reality holds everyone responsible.

Despite it doesn't. Reality often doesn't hold the rich responsible.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

when a woman has less money than a man it is not a result of her choices and she should deal with the consequences... it is because she is a victim and we should protect that victim.

Victim of whom? Men? Laughable. Like saying that when a woman can't reach out to the top shelf and a man can, it is she who is a victim of that man. And men in general as being mostly taller than her.

Men did not choose to be taller than women. So, whose victims are women? Nature? Maybe I can buy that idea. And I have a problem then why must we help her and put shelves lower? Sure, she can ask. And we can decide. She can make an argument. What in return will we get? Whether we agree with what we lose then?

We explain humans their errors. Men, women, everyone. And those who don't learn anyway... we consider them unhealthy. Yet, I don't see how a transition from "We should explain women different things" to "We should treat women as children" made.

[–]Barely-moralMostly red though1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Victim of whom? Men? Laughable. Like saying that when a woman can't reach out to the top shelf and a man can, it is she who is a victim of that man. And men in general as being mostly taller than her.

I agree. Victim narratives tend to be stupid.

Yet, I don't see how a transition from "We should explain women different things" to "We should treat women as children" made.

I personally don't treat women as children, but when I see a woman acting in an immature way I think of her as if she was a child. It makes things easier for me. I don't get frustrated when a child acts as a child.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed on your point. But that's not only women. I found a strict quiet hour in kindergarten dumb when I was 5. Or 18+ laws when I was 8. Or many other things in different periods of my life. Taboos, rituals, superstitions, etc. All these things are childish.

I was less child than an average adult when I was a child.

[–]stevierose7890 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

>Men did not choose to be taller than women. So, whose victims are women? Nature? Maybe I can buy that idea. And I have a problem then why must we help her and put shelves lower?

There are many women who do not expect men to lower the shelves. However we will get pissed of if you do not give us room to set up the step ladder.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I don't argue with you. But there are women who argue for lowering the shelves. And somehow they get shelves lowered. And it's not really about the shelves.

[–]stevierose7890 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

No it really isn't about the shelves. It is the idea that if you can't reach the shelves without assistance then you don't deserve to gain what is on those shelves. Much as you would put a toy out of a child's reach. But some children still manage to get a hold of that toy. And there are women who will find a way to reach those shelves and will do it using whatever skills they can figure out how to use at the time. It would be better to allow her a ladder she carries on her own to reach the shelves than watch her step on other men to get there.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Well, that was what liberal feminism stood for. Radical... radical always demands to lower the shelves. Of course men must do that as they were the ones who put shelves so high in the first place. According to them.

[–]stevierose7890 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I do not believe that the shelves should ever be lowered. That would erode standards that need to be there to ensure quality control. However, if a person wants to try and meet those standards what is lost in letting them do so? And if they succeed then they deserve to reach the shelves. Furthermore it encourages healthy competition. When women are put in an atmosphere that demands they meet the standards they will either succeed and belong there or they will not. But it is counterproductive to not allow them a step ladder and expect them to survive in an environment with only a male perspective of the shelves when he is six inches taller than she is. It is not that the woman is a child. It is just that she has a different view of the world than he does.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, I wish to see in what spheres women still have no possibility to bring a ladder. I mean Western world.

[–]stevierose7890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

At the moment I can not give an objective response to that question. I can't think of any right now, but my scope is limited. What I do know is that women have succeeded in bringing their own ladders and have found great success in what were once male dominated fields: the arts, law, medicine, business, etc. I suppose the downside of this is that there are many women who do not want to do the work of carrying their own ladder, and instead just expect to climb a ladder that awaits them because they were not around to see the hard work it took to get a ladder to the shelves. All they know is other women climbed it so they should be entitled to climb it also. I hope that makes sense.

is

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

Women ARE less subject to consequences than men. Sentencing for women is lighter. Women get subjected to violence, including rape, less than men. Women get treated nicer online than men. "Women are wonderful" effect is everywhere.

Feminism is trying to take away all consequences for women. For example: No stigmatizing female behavior like sluttery or whelping bastards!! "Empowering" women regardless of how shitty and bad for the community their behavior is, has led to some pretty retarded outcomes like a rash of fatherless homes, kids being raised by single moms.

Having said that, there are some really competent, grown ass women out there. But let's not act like there is ZERO fodder for TRP complaining about women being treated with kid gloves. There are still tons of white knights and chivalrous fucks out there treating women like they can do no wrong. And the bluepill, feminized mainstream definitely covers up for women and blames men for any negative phenomenon within gender relations. Toxic masculinity = a thing, toxic femininity = unheard of.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sentencing for women is lighter.

Then white people are less subject to consequences than black people because study after study shows white people get lighter sentences. Would you agree with that?

Women get subjected to violence, including rape, less than men

Rape victims are still overwhelmingly female (though men are less likely to report it). But why do you think it is that men are often bcitms of violence?

Women get treated nicer online than men.

You mean women get messaged for sex more?

"Women are wonderful" effect is everywhere.

Can you give me a concrete example of this?

[–]chocolatchauud7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women get subjected to violence, including rape, less than men

That's an unfounded statement. Where do you get that from?

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hes going off the source that states 1% of all men in jail are raped, and that number would be higher than all reported rape of women in the country. Plus more men are involved in violent crime and are more likely to be victims of homicide and assualt.

Two weaknesses of this argument. 1) The 1% of all men in prison being raped is an estimate. Not reported. And if we go with some of the estimates for how many women are raped each year opposed to reported, the stance falls apart. And 2) more men than women are murdered. That is fact. But when you look at race as a factor, we see that black women are murdered at a higher rate then white men are. So this argument works only at surface level.

In either case, it's a distraction from the main point and trying to shift the conversation to how men have it bad and women dont deserve respect.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No stigmatizing female behavior like sluttery

This is one I'm for. Men's behaviour when they have high N counts is not stigmatized and not stigmatizing women such behaviour will help society.

There are different kinds of feminists. There are dumb ones. Who agrees with them? Minority.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 1 point2 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Feminism is trying to take away all consequences for women. For example: No stigmatizing female behavior like sluttery or whelping bastards!!

The way we enforce our boundaries around such things is to refuse to associate with those people. I personally don't really care that much if any girl wants to sleep with whoever she chooses to sleep with. I see no need to punish her for using her freedom to do as she sees fit.

When it comes to children we as a society have reached the point of having enough excess wealth that we no longer allow innocent children to starve or be homeless. We have a social safety net for that. Just as we have disabilities, unemployment insurance, workers compensation, medicaid, etc etc.

I'm not that familiar with toxic masculinity. /u/biggerdthanyou is more of an expert there. So I won't comment. If you would like to discuss toxic femininity please feel free to do so though! But on your own thread my post is about how the red pill's misogyny stunts their users growth.

[–]OverWatchIsAShitGame 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

I like how you literally didn't respond to his evidence that women are given less responsibility :)

Truly surprising.

I'm sure blackpill / redpill people are talking about getting fat though, and not the rampant legal and social privilege women receive

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes I'm sure you like how I didn't allow myself to get side tracked and start talking about something that is unrelated to my post. My post that I made for the discussion I want to have. You know my post where I malt this claim:

How the red pill's rampant misogyny causes them to completely miss the obvious good advice and stunt their own users growth

I'm sure things would go much better for you if you just change the subject whenever you don't have a good argument to counter what my post is actually about.

But hey feel free to go make your own post.

[–]OverWatchIsAShitGame 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Reading this strikes me as very weird because all kinds of women I've known for my entire life all, universally, suffer the consequences

Did I not pull that sentence from your post? Was your post not about how women face consequences for their actions?

I noticed in another post you argued that women do go to prison.

https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspx

After controlling for the arrest offense, criminal history, and other prior characteristics, "men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do," and "[w]omen are…twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted." This gender gap is about six times as large as the racial disparity that Prof. Starr found in another recent paper.

I know bluepillers are mentally ill, but at least try...

The old white knight phenomena. I'm not sure if whispers here or the other terps realize that feminism seeks to empower women to assume full responsibility for their lives.

Was that not a sentence in your post? It certainly doesn't fit reality

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/26/justice-secretary-dont-send-women-prison-unless-commit-violent/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/female-offenders-support-centres-prison-report-london-assembly-a8461711.html

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/10/25/court-says-pedophilia-does-not-apply-because-perpetrator-is-a-woman.html

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I know bluepillers are mentally ill, but at least try...

I've tried to have a good debate but I really don't feel like engaging with someone who throws out ad homs at me like that. Ta ta

[–]dontdoitpleaseno2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes I'm sure you like how I didn't allow myself to get side tracked and start talking about something that is unrelated to my post

It's exactly related to your post. You're deflecting.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

I think you would be a good person to write a “healthy alternative to the redpill” post which a few users have been asking for. Something more concise that lays out your positive vision for what constitutes “growth” instead of long series of quotes and your take on them from the redpill sub, which like... seeing as how none of us here actually wrote them, are kind of hard to respond to or defend.

Its like i would rather address your actual ideas and theyre hard to get at, in the format you chose to write this post. My 2c.

[–]SerpentCypher1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

This is like saying the local eccentric/crazy person would be a good person to organize community functions. Or that the local paedophile would be a good person to be a mod... Oh, wait.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Two teens legally fucking oh shit it's pedo when you want to attack someone it's totally normal and ok all the rest of the time.

[–]SerpentCypher0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

A guy who is 18 getting 12 year olds drunk and raping them is not "two teens legally fucking" JFC. I fully expected the blues on here to ignore the paedos in their own tribe, but the fact you guys are defending them shocks even me. It's gross.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

"rape"

Just because you use a word doesn't mean what you think it means.

[–]SerpentCypher0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Riiiight. Fully grown women with alcohol in their system aren't able to consent according to blues and leftists, but drunk 12 year olds? Totally fine.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm an individual with my own beliefs not a caricature of whatever feminist extremism you can locate

[–]NeedingAdvice860 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I bet you would fucking go ballistic and likely end up in prison when you found out that shit gave your 12 year old daughter liquor or gave her drugs to fuck her intoxicated, blacked out pussy in your basement and left her with a child.

You are being dishonest...do you even realize it? Probably not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Woah i hadnt heard about this. Thats fucked up.

[–]SerpentCypher0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

That guy is some weird kind of cosplayer or something, no one would even confess to the amount of felonies he's guilty of online. Probably a girl irl that is trying to "out alpha" the RP guys here for some weird reason.

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What felonies (except for drug use of course)?

I'm not from the US. Where I'm from teens having sex with other teens is normal because we don't have the same puritan attitudes towards sex as the US.

Each of my sexual encounters was perfectly legal and none of the girls think that it was rape. Not even their parents were mad when they offered me breakfast the next morning.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hmm OK. Most of the stuff I've written is on the red pill sub just under (deleted) or on the manosphere at large. During my anger phase and all that. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

/u/biggerdthanyou is more of an expert there.

Despite he is not. He actually tried arguing it was real and lost big time in two different threads that he made on it and ran away when he lost the debate on it.

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

How did I lose just because you think that "I hate rainy days" means the same as "I hate all days and I think that all days are rainy"?

I didn't ran away. I just stopped replying because I have better things to do than wasting my time talking to a wall that doesn't even understand the English language.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

One you did run away, you always do when you lose a debate. And I wasn't even talking about me. And I love how you throw around insults.

Edit: I reported you not like that will do much. Now I am sure you turn on your mod flair on and accuse me of trolling. Can't wait for the mod mail.

[–]YetAnotherCommenterPurple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory9 points10 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

YAC, /u/yetanothercommenter, a long time red from way back, responds to see if red pill king whisper can clarify. He says;

Treating women as rational adults and therefore holding them accountable will change the incentive structure women currently face.

I'm not sure what this means because women already are held to account for their decisions by reality itself. But perhaps he means that he has very poor boundaries and has struggled to hold the women in his life to account for crossing his boundaries. That's the only thing that makes any sense.

Because you decided to make this thread, in part, about me, I'm going to have to respond firmly.

First, as my flair indicates I am purple, not red. Calling me "a long time red from way back" is thus at the very least an highly negligent mistake and more likely a deliberate misrepresentation, perhaps an attempt at poisoning the well through guilt by association.

I am anti-PC/anti-SJW, and I am a Men's Human Rights Advocate, but that does not make me a Red Piller. Indeed, you show an instance where I disagree with a Red Piller (whilst bizarrely classifying me as one), and whilst I have defended some Red Pill and Black Pill ideas, I have also criticized some of them too.

"A long time red from way back" is just defamatory. I don't think I've ever posted on TRP.

Onto your actual argument, where you decide to make personal allegations about me "lacking boundaries."

You're right that reality as such naturally imposes 'consequences' on women for some of their behaviors. But what you completely ignore is the phenomenon of social consequences. Social consequences are when other people (or groups/institutions composed thereof) respond to that person's actions.

For example, if Person A murders Person B, the physical world itself will not retaliate. The physical world will do nothing, basically. But the social world in our modern civilization contains things like laws and law enforcement, and thus Person A will experience social consequences of their action (hopefully).

When I speak of women "not facing the consequences of their actions" I am talking about how men incur higher social consequences than women. Its well-documented that men get longer jail sentences for the same crimes. Abuse of men isn't taken seriously and abusive women aren't taken seriously. Rape-by-engulfment of men by women is often defined as "not rape."

Women face lower exit costs when dissolving relationships and have the upper hand in family courts.

Widespread social norms objectify women and this actually decreases the consequences they face, since they're perpetually seen as victims whom are acted upon rather than as agents capable of rational choice. We see this institutionalized in feminist ideology, where women are always the "real victims." We see this in the women's press, where if something goes wrong in a relationship its always the man's fault. Its the man's fault she "wasn't happy" and divorced him. She leaves her marriage and goes on an Eat Pray Love tour and launches a cultural phenomenon; the gender-flipped version would be described as a deadbeat betrayer and would be scorned (and lose a lot of assets in the divorce).

Even natural consequences, like that of single motherhood, are attenuated by certain social structures (childcare subsidies, benefits for single mothers etc).

It isn't about me, or my boundaries, or my relationship history. I'm talking about social consequences and I'm speaking on a broad scale here.

But even on the issue of personal boundaries, many social structures encourage men to have few boundaries with women, and to not enforce them. You can't just say "men, you need to change" when there is systemic social indoctrination involved. Ironically, its things like TRP that are working on providing a counteragent to this systemic social indoctrination; as Mark Manson once wrote in an article about The Red Pill, he points out that a core aspect of why TRP users experience a degree of success is that the philosophy teaches men HOW to set boundaries, and it gives them a confidence boost as a result.

So in brief, don't lump me in with TRP, don't misrepresent my arguments and don't try to make things personal.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] -3 points-2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Nothing in this post is about you in particular but go ahead and talk about yourself.

[–]YetAnotherCommenterPurple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You named me and made allegations about me in particular.

Yes, your post got personal towards me.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

👍

[–]Actuallyconsistent 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

You linked his goddamn account name in a long post that is demeaning to those who disagree with you.

You called him out and he responded, and now you're being a little bitch about it. You're pathetic.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Him in particular makes no difference. Imagine I said generic red pill guy. Nothing is about him in particular. Now take some deep breaths, close your eyes, count to ten, and let it out.

[–]Actuallyconsistent0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Are you trolling? Or do you really not understand what you're doing here? I can't tell.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

YAC himself has nothing to do with my point and my argument would have been exactly the same had it been generic person. Do you understand what I'm saying? If you want to continue being an asshole though go ahead and I'll just block you. I don't got time for this

[–]Actuallyconsistent2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Then why link directly to him?

I get what you're saying, but I personally find it an impossible stance to hold without being dishonest. You directly linked his username and then he shows up to defend himself and your only response is 'this isn't about you anyway'

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ok this is fair. I did link directly to him and used his username with the /u thingy. My intention was to highlight whisper for the post. I also highlighted YAC because he was right there and I remember having a lot of conversations with him like five years ago in my old TRP account. I got along with him great back then and just thought "calling him out" would be a way to acknowledge that. Yes you are right I don't think I handled it very well.

/u/yetanothercommenter I apologize for putting words in your mouth and mislabeling you. I retract it all if it matters to you at this point I will go edit my OP.

[–]YetAnotherCommenterPurple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

/u/yetanothercommenter I apologize for putting words in your mouth and mislabeling you. I retract it all if it matters to you at this point I will go edit my OP.

Thank you. Please do that.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok I just edited it hopefully that will clear that up

[–]-TheGreasyPole-Pissed Off that Reddit Admins killed my old account[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Even when you're right, you've got to be civil.

[–]Cho_AssmilkArrogant RP S.O.B.3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Treat women like children is one of the most overblown redpill concepts. In it's purest form, it simply means don't take her nonsense seriously.

"Assmilk, I'm so sick of how you never sweep under the table. Do you know how fuckin hard that makes my life?"

Now obviously I should sweep under the table more, but does it really make her like too hard!? It doesn't. So I treat this comment as I would to my son saying

"Honest to god dad! All my 11 y/o friends are going to circle K at 9pm! You're ruining my life!"

I say to both of them

"Ok. If I make some bacon, are you gonna eat any?"

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If it's some overblown concept that just means don't take complaints too seriously then why is it everywhere? Why does red pill king whisper say it in my quotes? Why not get rid of it and replace it with something that isn't misogynistic?

[–]Cho_AssmilkArrogant RP S.O.B.3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What the fuck makes him a RedPill king? That's like saying GLO is a king. They're edge lords. The king is Stone anyway.

To answer your question, spergs can't read between the lines and they make up the cult following of RP.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Stone is the king? Lol no. I did get a kick out of his large post about his red pill awakening when his mommy wife refused to let him buy an Xbox though. And got along with him just fine here at ppd. Over at mrp though? Yeah no thanks talk about AMOG out of control...

[–]douchebag_throwaway30 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Jack10ofhearts was the king.

[–]Cho_AssmilkArrogant RP S.O.B.0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Arch was pretty awesome too

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I saw "stunt users growth" and thought this was another woe is me short dudes thread.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, if you hang around toilets, you'll eventually find some shit.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hopefully my thread isn't too disappointing goat!

[–]itiswr1ttenEndorsed Negotiable Instrument2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It can be encapsulated in the following way:

  1. RP advice isn't written for your demographic, so it's no wonder you don't understand it

  2. Specifically, you are married, from a prior generation, and monogamous - none of these lifestyle choices or frame or reference are compatible with core RP. You aren't an SMP participant

  3. RP foundational tenets are deliberately extreme to break thought loops, specifically thought terminating loops like pedestalization

  4. Any who actually internalize said extreme tenets and put them into practice will naturally discover the subtlety

  5. Practically, "treat women like children" is not "women are children", but telling a frustrated doofus they are is useful

  6. Finally, and most importantly, you are making a very well worn mistake - holding other people accountable for their actions and assuming by default that failure to lead results in being taken advantage of is only misogyny to you when applied to one gender

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

You don't know that much about my past or my experiences. Your claims are wrong. But I don't have much I would like to add or debate with in your comment except this:

Finally, and most importantly, you are making a very well worn mistake - holding other people accountable for their actions and assuming by default that failure to lead results in being taken advantage of is only misogyny to you when applied to one gender

I don't understand what you are saying here. Can you reword this please?

[–]itiswr1tten 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

Someone who doesn't want to debate on the debate sub is a regular poster? Hmmm...

Sure on the one thing. The secret of why "treat women like children" is great advice is that hidden deep underneath the medium (shock value, binary thinking) is a much more important message - hold people accountable for their actions regardless of gender, and don't expect anyone to respect boundaries you don't actively enforce.

We say it this way because the kiddos are usually incapable of self respect with anyone, but they're ultra mad at women when they show up. So we redirect the anger to a nice little prescription that, if followed correctly....will lead them to happier relationships.

In turn they'll both (1) stop being mad at women and (2) realize it was their fault for being a big pussy with everyone.

The classic mistake is everything I've applied here, if I broke it down with men or colleagues or friends as a group, you'd say "sure sounds reasonable" but magically when applied to women it's "misogyny". You're failing to understand the purpose and being a sophist about the words aka pretty much every PPD regular.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

hold people accountable for their actions regardless of gender, and don't expect anyone to respect boundaries you don't actively enforce.

Well let's just say that instead of the edge lord misogynistic larping. In any event I'll write up a post later today about why I think reds should drop the edge lord larping

[–]itiswr1tten 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Go ahead. This works for a specific reason you actively choose to disregard that I tried to lay out as simply as possible

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ok it will be later tonight. Hopefully it can move the discussion ahead or at least expound on my ideas here and maybe other people will understand better.

I do understand that it can be cathartic and guys have made good arguments about it being therapeutic and helping them think of women at people not as some divine beings.

I suppose we'll see if it makes sense or can stand up to the other guys push back

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

I also really wish more red pill people gave Atlas Shrugged another shot.

We could use a bunch of them going Galt

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 5 points6 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

More mgtows going their own way? Is this your solution for women being responsible adults? Is this the mythical mgtow who we never hear from again or the common mgtow who can't stop telling us that he's out, he's done, any minute now...?

[–]equanimous_samsarasyrup of ipecac4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is this the mythical mgtow who we never hear from again or the common mgtow who can't stop telling us that he's out, he's done, any minute now...?

I'm going to give benefit of the doubt and assume you've figured out by now what it is that MGTOW claim to be going their own way from. Then, why equate MGTOW with some sort of self-imposed exile from having an online presence and maybe even a presence of any kind in society?

I don't exactly blame you, if I were blue pilled, the mocking rhetoric of "still not going are you?" is just too good to resist. It's little more than an amusing play on words. It's a quip, and not a valid criticism something I wish people were more aware of.

Unless it actually is a valid criticism, then I'm interested to hear it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

The one that puts his money where his mouth is and fucks off to do his own thing.

The thing is, there was a time where you could hop on a ship, find some place and call it a day for the rest of your days. No such place remains on earth nowadays however

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 2 points3 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Well best wishes going your own way. Why do we "need" other normal guys to copy this though?

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Because the average woman is a net loss on society, as the average woman receives more in taxes through goods and services than she provides, and the men in her life. Why the fuck should Average Joe spend his time, money, and effort on a woman when all he will get in return is a headache and an empty wallet with a small possibility that he may get some pussy, and if he's unlucky a rape/sexual harassment accusation?

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Sorry I'm not interested in convincing you why you should not go your own way. Do or don't you have free will.

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Let me guess, it's some variant of "you'll feel fulfilled" or "you'll get laid." Not worth my time, money, or effort. I feel plenty fulfilled already and I can always fap to relieve those urges. My phone or laptop will never metoo me

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think he is saying he does not care if you want to sail away and play pirate and fap to your heart's content. Enjoy yourself.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

Then go! Why do you feel the need to tell the world that you're going, just do it. Get off of Reddit and do it, you won't be missed and no one will care either way.

North of worse than than a man who wants to sit around all day and bitch.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

posts in r/PurplePillDebate

What do you expect out of a debate sub? The default assumption he made is that if you reply to him, you're looking to debate

[–]chaddad90002 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Debate: Will these guys "Go Galt", or will they sit around with a bottle of whiskey and rubbing a shotgun while butthurt-posting on the internet. Inquiring minds want to know.

[–]Dweller_of_the_Abyss1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Then go! Why do you feel the need to tell the world that you're going, just do it. Get off of Reddit and do it, you won't be missed and no one will care either way.

Because the whole point of "going your way" is to make people notice/care about it. As I must remind posters like you and those that share your sentiment; "Going your own way," does not mean shutting the fuck up.

[–]TheSuperStink 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, the point of "going your way", is actually doing it and not worrying about what the world thinks. I have a uncle that went his own way. He doesn't talk about it and doesn't care if anyone knows are not.

Your reasons make absolutely no sense; it's just an excuse to bitch to anyone who will listen.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Let me guess, it's some variant of "you'll feel fulfilled" or "you'll get laid."

No its neither of those things. I'll repeat myself for like the ten millionth time over these years. I don't care if you go your own way. Go ahead. I have zero interest in convincing you otherwise.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

the average woman receives more in taxes through goods and services than she provides

Incorrect. 68% of goverment spending is on social security and Medicare, which if you’re not American or not familiar with these programs, they’re for people 65+. Women collect more of these benefits .... wait for it .... because we live longer.

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's worth pointing out you aren't contradicting his point.

You are simply explaining where that money is going.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s worth pointing out he hasn’t proven that women are a “net loss.” Only that we receive more government benefits dollars compared to men.

[–]RedditRouge003 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Why do braindead and stubborn women and bluepilled men refuse to admit to the truth ?Why do women on here keep making threads trying to prove something? Why not let people believe what they want to?

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is a debate forum where we debate and discuss red pill and blue pill beliefs. Perhaps you got lost?

[–]RedditRouge00 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

It sounds like your in denial, get off yourself. People will believe what they want to . Every topic/discussion here has been beaten to death and is essentially an echo chamber. Only threads I see here , mostly from women providing cherry picked topics then trolling the comments. Clearly they have nothing better to do then troll a sub.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a debate sub. If you are not here to debate feel free to exit stage left.

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do braindead and stubborn women and bluepilled men refuse to admit to the truth ?

Yeah. Why do braindead people who deny that Bigfoot is real refuse to admit the truth? Why do stubborn eviltheists who claim that the earth is a sphere refuse to admit the truth that the earth is flat?

Things aren't the truth just because your bitterness makes you feel that way.

Why do women on here keep making threads trying to prove something?

Because the TBPers and women here care about facts. You come here to share your feelings and expect us that we will believe that they are facts, but for us facts need evidence and logical explanations.

Why not let people believe what they want to?

This is a debate board.

You can believe in Bigfoot, flat earth and TRP all you want. Just don't expect us to take you seriously if you call your feelings facts.

[–]Sir_KoopamanSexually Identifies as a Potato3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The red pill still puts pussy on a pedestal. It's the controlled opposition, the real red pill is disregarding women and going your own way. Treat the women in your family with respect if they haven't wronged you and don't isolate yourself from women completely professionally (as that's impractical), but anything beyond that I honestly believe that women ought to be ignored since the average woman's level of emotional control, if found in a man would label said man in the eyes of both his fellow man and women as an omega male.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

OK then you can go your own way. See you later

[–]Ziczor 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

I understand redpill since it brings knowledge every guy needs to have. MGTOW on the other hand sounds dumber than incels. Blackpillers know it's all about looks. You guys know that as well (obviously won't admit it), but you're trying to find an escape route which will lead you nowhere anyways. Blackpill > MGTOW.

[–]big_boi_big_mac1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Blackpill is a destructive line of thought, that does nothing. MGTOW gives men an option to walk their own path in life, and choose their own meaning, no matter how ugly or dumb they may be.

Blackpillers know it's all about looks

You see, blackpillers base their whole existence on women. They feel bad about themselves and cry about being ugly or dumb. How about finding meaning in life that doesnt involve being with a woman??? MGTOW reject the expectations of women and walks away, unlike the blackpill that bickers because they lack in looks or intelligence. I dont know many things that could be more destructive in life then thinking you are literally destined to fail. Sure, most people in this world are losers, because competition exists and there will always be more losers then winners, but that doesn't stop you from finding something that gives you happiness. Something simple, anything really, you might find meaning in painting, drawing, fishing,etc.

Black pill keeps people from climbing out of the depths and achieving things in life, while MGTOW allows you to achieve meaning in life without women. Dont think of me as some hopeless optimist, because im really not. I just think that crying about the hand dealt to you, is wrong and you should try to make the best out of the shitty life you got.

[–]whatdidshewrite1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I don’t know if this is right but you could argue that, through punishing bad behaviour and rewarding good behaviour, people can learn how to behave

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

A very authoritarian thing to say. So who will decide what behaviors are to be punished? What will the punishment be?

The way I see it we are very fortunate to live in modern liberal times. If you don't like someone's behavior you enforce this by communicating that you do not like this behavior and if it continues you leave. Other people enforce their boundaries the same. The authoritarian way is to punish those who do not conform. I am very glad that other people do not get to punish me for not confirming to their boundaries. I and the rest of the blue pill folks will indeed push back and fight back against the attempts to create a new authoritarian punishment system.

[–]whatdidshewrite1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Well you’d mould their behaviour to your liking through implicit push/pulling

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

So authoritarian psycholigical manipulation to try to control your partner? Would you suggest that that is a better route than building strong and healthy boundaries?

[–]whatdidshewrite1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Depends on what you mean by better. I’d say it’s definitely more effective/efficient

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I'd say that having strong healthly boundaries is far more effective and leads you to much better places in your entire life with your interactions with both men and women.

[–]whatdidshewrite0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Perhaps but there is less room for disobedience when there are direct consequences for misbehaving

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

What are we talking about here? Like if your wife disobeys you beat her or something? I mean this weakness is where terp beliefs gets you. In a relationship you will have to negotiate. That's part of all relationships. If you have strong healthy boundaries you will be able to hold your ground, give where necessary, and negotiate with your partner. Making demands only and threatening punishment if your demands aren't met isn't going to work out very well. You'll end up with a crazy BPD girl who wants you to control her right up until she's manic and pushing you to the edge.

[–]whatdidshewrite0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

But the more slack you give them, the more room they have to screw you over no?

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

None of this controlling authoritarianism matters if you have solid boundaries. She won't fuck you over because she knows if she does you'll just leave. I mean how often does this really come up in your relationships anyway? Where your girl is trying to fuk you over?

[–]BigMarvelChickenman1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I disagree women ignore the average guys like me until the hit the mid 20's, early thirties then we become "good" in their eyes. You get used to the feeling your a walking wallet as you get older. I honestly just can't wait for my sex drive to die, I can be like that successful women that got a bunch a degrees. She had good life.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Okey dokey...

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Women always suffer the consequences

How can you say this tight after mentioning overeating in after a decade of shaming men for not liking dating fat women because its the guys that are the issue.

This just seems like an unfocused ramble TLDR I dont like redpill.

Its a Gish Gallop.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

How can you say this tight after mentioning overeating in after a decade of shaming men for not liking dating fat women because its the guys that are the issue.

If you were at all familiar with me you would never claim I support shaming men into breaking their boundaries and accepting fat women. In fact I fat shame quite often as every regular here and chat room folk is well aware.

At no point have I ever supported shaming men into having weak boundaries and breaking them in such a way.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

You missed the point. The body acceptance movement has been going on for some time. your stance on that it has no relevance to my post.

Its part of a pattern where women are the victim though.

You cant question a woman's behavior without it being victim blaming.

If a guy goes to RP and whines he gets told fix your shit you are pathetic.

Yeah its obvious why rp takes the view that women are not held accountable because example abound.

See Bill Burrs no reason to hit a woman for a great explanation.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I have no idea what you are talking about anymore. Some gross obese girl somewhere is trying to shame men into having weak boundaries? I'm sure I've seen that. Build up strong boundaries and just ignore that crap. I don't have any idea why reds need to spout misogynistic garbage and ignore building strong boundaries to counter some obese girls attempt at shaming. My way works better

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I had a longer comment typed up but while I'd agree with you somewhat, I saw you go from complaining about rp saying women dont accept responsibility in an area where it quite clear they dont, with great support from society. that you appear to conflate consequences with responsibility/accountability doesn't help.

So often a woman will complain about something, and the result is support/attempt, but no one will question the decisions that got her here.

Go make a pot on TRP about how its no fair women dont like chubby men and see what happens. Now do the same in /r/TwoXChromosomes genderflipped.

If you want to tell me that men are treating women like children because they are too afraid that treating them how they would a man they would never get laid, so treating all women as children is part of why they see them that way, ok I can give some ground there.

Maybe its a self perpetuating problem. If we stopped enabling we might see less of it. Doubt it though.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I find that treating my wife like an adult works fine. I also have strong boundaries that I don't cross without negotiation from her. She knows this. If you were to observe our marriage it would appear to be a classic man lead trad marriage, yet we are both feminists and I respect her and she has total freedom of her own choice. Which does not mean choice over me. As a couple we negotiate and she can not walk all over me not because I think she's a child or a teenager but because I love myself and have my own boundaries

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure you can see the difference between a single personal relationship and how society in general encourages not taking responsibility for shit.

I saw a thread in another sub, some self pitying sobfest over how men only want to have sex with this "poor girl", I could tell her why and how to avoid it, but I don't dare. sending her a PM? yeah I thought about it, but its too much effort for someone likely to be unperceptive. So she can just enjoy the way things are and let people reassure her about how men are bad and there is nothing she can do about it.Shes going to date a chain of men who don't view her as LTR material. asking why that is comes too close to "victim blaming" and everyone has to be a victim.

Of course imo the answer is she is aiming too high and because of it selecting the guys that likely see her as an easily replaced ONS. (note I didn't use hyperbolic chad framing)

Thats assuming she hasn't confused that sex is a natural part of a relationship with something else. Cant have that conversation either.

You dont get much in the way of details and no one asks, because that would imply that she has control. aka some degree of responsibility.

A guy in a similar situation would get good helpful answers in TRP.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

How do you know that she's aiming too high? I've seen a lot of girls, young girls in particular, who if anything aim way too low and get into situations like that. Because they lack self esteem and don't realize how attractive they actually are.

I mean what would you PM her? This sort of sounds like something a white knight or nice guy tm would do.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Its a strong suspicion. I cant confirm because people who want sympathy/validation don't provide details unless they are likely to yield the results they want. The one person suggesting shes playing the victim is eating downvotes and hostility in spite of being the only one with an actual positive message.

A white knight /niceguy would pm her and tell her shes the one picking those guys?

lol. no a "niceguy" would pm her how she deserves better blah blah blah, all in the hopes of getting some cyber. yeah I haven't been that guy for a long time. When I was, it was all on me.

A white knight would never admit even a tiny bit that if we are talking about several men, shes the common element. and if just a couple she has no problem.

I'm just a bit tired of the unspeakable and how all men get blamed for it.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I personally consider it a huge red flag for someone to complain about their ex's. It shows a lack of maturity and personal responsibility. Red flag. Stay away

[–]ascended-cel2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

all kinds of women I've known for my entire life all, universally, suffer the consequences and reap the benefits of their choices.

Everyone suffers the consequence of their actions. To what extent does feminism try to mitigate those consequences, for women? Let's go through them.

Overeat and you get fat.

Well you can't avoid getting fat, but you can get government paid surgery to lose the weight. Oh and people shouldn't allowed to judge you for being fat either.

Devote time to the gym you get fit.

Sure.

Go to college, get a degree, get a career, have a career.

Get a useless degree in sociology and weasel yourself into a tech company that is desperate to hire women.

Have unprotected sex with a shit guy when you are a teenager end up a single mother.

Nope, just kill the baby, paid for by the government.

Drive drunk and high get into an awful crash and get sued by five people, declare bankruptcy.

Avoid prison because you're a woman.

Date with better future planning and end up married to a good man with a good career.

True. And at any point you can divorce and collect alimony.

Ahh see it's all so simple!!! Want women to mature into accountable adults who take responsibility for their own choices? Treat them like children! Order them around! Tell them what to do! Punish them if they do not obey!

Yeah fair enough, that advice is stupid.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

you can get government paid surgery to lose the weight

You can? Are you sure? Well perhaps if so that is to prevent both men and women from getting the beetus and becoming massive drains on the healthcare system?

people shouldn't allowed to judge you for being fat either.

Oh believe me brother I'm well known for being incredibly judgemental about this stuff. There's nothing stopping you from doing the same. Or from dating and marrying dainty beauties with their lovely size 0 pants such as my wife has on right now.

Get a useless degree in sociology and weasel yourself into a tech company that is desperate to hire women.

You mean get a job in HR in a corporation? There are a lot of people in current year who go into massive debt to get useless degrees. Believe me they suffer. Badly.

just kill the baby, paid for by the government.

I'm pretty sure that their are no government funded abortions. That's a very touchy subject as well and not one that has anything at all to do with my post.

Avoid prison because you're a woman.

Women still go to prison.

at any point you can divorce and collect alimony.

Alimony has been overhauled basically everywhere. Guys need to catch up to this. And men can get alimony as well.

Yeah fair enough, that advice is stupid.

Hey looks like we agree!

[–]Wandos7naproxen sodium2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You mean get a job in HR in a corporation? There are a lot of people in current year who go into massive debt to get useless degrees. Believe me they suffer. Badly.

To be fair, this was possible when I graduated 15 years ago. Not so much anymore. I'm tech industry and I and many others I've worked with for a long time have unrelated degrees or even no degrees at all (men and women).

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

government paid surgery to lose the weight.

In the US you cannot.

Get a useless degree in sociology and weasel yourself into a tech company that is desperate to hire women.

Do you have data showing that women being hired by tech companies are less qualified than their male counterparts? Serious question.

Nope, just kill the baby, paid for by the government.

Abortion is not government funded in the Us.

Avoid prison because you're a woman.

Women get lighter sentences yes but “avoid prison” is hyperbole. Especially if you’re a woman of color.

True. And at any point you can divorce and collect alimony

Not if there wasn’t a signficant income disparity.

[–]Ricolapanda 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

> Do you have data showing that women being hired by tech companies are less qualified than their male counterparts? Serious question.

Amazons AI had to be shut down, since it wouldn't invite women at all.

The AI's job was to find, search and filter all factors which correlate with qualification.

Being female was a big factor for low/useless qualification.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Source?

[–]boatyscxslave0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reuters is one.

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[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The old school red pill guys I identify with a lot more. Its grown and shifted into this sub quality thing over the years. And the user base now seems far less connected with reality as the incel types began coming in.

Red Pill likes to say it takes women off the pedestal, and it does. But often it leaves pussy on the pedestal and the rest of the woman in the basement.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'd argue that's what it did from inception. Pussy was always a high priority for TRP. As a fan of trp theory, going to all this effort just to land some pussy is clear as day pedestal worshipping as far as I'm concerned.

I like that TRP offers real explanations to real phenomena, but they're so preoccupied with priortizing their sexual market adventures...

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They really do. Sex is fun, and I love it, but they go to some incredible lengths and effort to sleep with women they wont even remember. Men should focus on self improvement and bettering their lives. But doing it all for cheap pussy just seems like a waste.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Guys please stop erasing your posts. I spend a chunk of time responding honestly and it's quite disappointing to hit save and see that you were embarrassed at your comment and already erased it.

[–]chaddad90002 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It just never seemed that difficult to expect women to act like adults.

[–]CamoWoobie100 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Muh soggy knee

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You know that’s not how it’s pronounced right?

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Unplugging is often the stage after the stage of growth you think is at the top of the pyramid.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure what this means because women already are held to account for their decisions by reality itself.

I don't think they mean it this way. In reality even if you're an iresponsible moron we all have to deal with consequences of our actions.

This is probably refering to all kinds of social stuff. The point seems to be that you don't give in to hysterical women just because they can provide sex. Also, mens idea of what constituted adult behaviour might be different from women's.

Sure a lot of terps are white knights trying to move past this outdated sexist behavior but rather than do so from a feminist perspective of seeing women as equal to men they have gone another route. As we will soon see.

It's not outdated. It's part of us. Ants die for colonies - men die for women (if necessary).

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Reading this strikes me as very weird because all kinds of women I've known for my entire life all, universally, suffer the consequences and reap the benefits of their choices. Overeat and you get fat. Devote time to the gym you get fit. Go to college, get a degree, get a career, have a career. Have unprotected sex with a shit guy when you are a teenager end up a single mother. Date with better future planning and end up married to a good man with a good career. Drive drunk and high get into an awful crash and get sued by five people, declare bankruptcy.

Kill your boyfriend and avoid prison.

Kill your five children and avoid prison.

Kill your husband and avoid death penalty.

/r/PussyPass

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1164&context=law_econ_current

No one else becomes a single mother because some dumb teen fucks a thirty year old junkie. She does.

Baby boxes

Baby Moses laws

She uses drugs herself and becomes a junkie? I don't get hep C from this and suffer liver failure. She does.

And you pay for her disability, because she's a shit worker, always was, and the majority of tax revenue comes from taxation of income. I.e. taxation of men.

Real serious relationship problems can arise from weak unenforced boundaries.

and corrupt courts and police force that is explicitly instructed to profile men and benefit women. Not even to protect them, to benefit them at men's expense.

I'm not sure if whispers here or the other terps realize that feminism seeks to empower women to assume full responsibility for their lives.

Motte and Bailey. "Good, now when we repeated the magic word 'Equality' enough times to sedate their vigilance, let's get back to putting even more men in prisons, driving even more men to suicide, taking away even more of men's wealth, alienating even more men from their children, and leaving even more men broken and homeless."

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

That's some poorly formatted link bombing. What's your argument here? Man good woman bad? We live in a society? You know what I don't really care. Maybe your can make your own post to link bomb and rant in

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Your notion about "well duh, the nature itself holds women accountable" - is ridiculous and insane.

Imagine if we used the same reasoning for murderers.

"Well yeah, they killed someone, but they'll have to live with the guilt..." - NO. Very often, murders are committed by people incapable of feeling the guilt. This is why we punish them.

There is NO responsibility without punishment. And every time when someone claims otherwise, that reality itself will hold the guilty accountable - you can bet 50 bucks that the vajj is involved.

Overeat and you get fat.

Claim disability, get free gastric bypass surgery paid for by men's money. Maybe not the case yet, but I bet it's the ideal world that women envision.

Go to college, get a degree, get a career, have a career.

Go to college, get a useless degree, find a successful fiancee, never work anywhere above entry-level position, force the state to absorb your education fees with money taken away from men.

Have unprotected sex with a shit guy when you are a teenager end up a single mother.

Have an abortion, force men to pay for it through the state.

Date with better future planning and end up married to a good man with a good career.

Divorce him, take half of his stuff, drive him to suicide, get away with it.

Drive drunk and high get into an awful crash and get sued by five people, declare bankruptcy.

Leave several people disabled, avoid prison, because vagina.

I mean there's no end to this list. Women always suffer the consequences and reap the rewards of their own choices.

Except when they force men to suffer consequences of their shitty choices and reap the rewards of men's good choices.

No one else becomes a single mother because some dumb teen fucks a thirty year old junkie. She does. She suffers life long consequences for it

Unless she kills the baby and gets away with it. Because vagina.

You are white knighting right now.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You sound insane. So if someone does something you consider wrong, like say over eat and gain an unhealthy amount of weight, you think we should punish them? Like what whippings in the town square? And that if we don't then they somehow don't have any responsibility?

I mean just read this again;

There is NO responsibility without punishment.

This is totally insane.

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So if someone does something you consider wrong, like say over eat and gain an unhealthy amount of weight, you think we should punish them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugary_drink_tax

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity#Economic_impact

Gluttony is not "something I consider wrong"; it's an objective recognized harm to the individual as well as to the public.

We punish people for drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco by imposing tariffs and limiting the areas where they can consume them. The difference being that alcohol and tobacco are chemical boost of choice predominantly among men. Women's choice is sugar. Which is why tobacco tariffs have been in existence for 400 years, and sugar taxes were implemented experimentally in two countries prior to year 2000.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the most extreme authoritianism I've heard. My wife is looking forward to the end result of your authoritianism. Public beatings or whatev punishment for whatever you consider immoral. Just insane.

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes, fat women are fat because of their choices. Women have to suffer the consequences of their choices, etc... I think we can all agree on these things. However, the US government bails people out of a lot of their bad choices, right?

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

the US government bails people out of a lot of their bad choices, right?

No not really. How do they do that?

[–]MattcwuJust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

For example, if I jump down a well and get stuck, the fire department will remove me from the well free of charge.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok agreed

[–]WhisperTotally LARPing. Really.0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think I should be flattered, but I'm also kinda checking my windows for nose-prints.

Seriously, though, what do you think arguing about this will accomplish? I teach men to do this, and it works, in the sense that their lives get happier, and they write me thank you messages.

Which was kinda my goal.

So what exactly is that you want from me? And how exactly do you plan to incentivize that?

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

It works for some men. But I think that those men it works for would have been fine anyway because they try. The misogyny and absolutism leads a lot of other men into stunted growth and despair.

So what exactly is that you want from me?

Nothing this is just a debate sub to discuss and debate and generally just entertain ourselves. Hmm and is that a Dell laptop you're using there?

[–]WhisperTotally LARPing. Really.0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It works for some men. But I think that those men it works for would have been fine anyway because they try. The misogyny and absolutism leads a lot of other men into stunted growth and despair.

Interesting hypothesis. How do you plan to test it?

Nothing this is just a debate sub to discuss and debate and generally just entertain ourselves.

Fair enough. I tend to confine myself to saying what I think, rather than staying to argue about it, because I'm beginning to think that we live in a post-debate world, and the outcome of an argument no longer matters.

It doesn't find out who is correct. Empirical testing does that.

And it doesn't determine whose ideas will dominate. Other factors determine that as well.

So, for me, the only use to debates is to entertain me, or help me find more pithy, easily understandable ways to express my thoughts to third parties who aren't debating, in the sense that they are seeking not to refute, but to understand (and probably to make more women desire them).

Unfortunately, and I say this without rancour, that's a bar you do have not cleared. Every objection you have to my methods, I've heard before. Many years before, in fact, and many times since. They weren't interesting or convincing then, and they're even less interesting and convincing now.

So, carry on with people who want to argue, I guess.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you for your grace King red pill may one day I and my children have a place in your authoritarian court. You are welcome to come back to the fields where we debate, and then not debate, any time. Plenty of eternal followers need your blessing as well.

[–]WhisperTotally LARPing. Really.1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your invitation is pleasing to Us, and perhaps We shall accept it from time to time.

[–]OverAnalyzingAutist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Obviously women are held accountable for their actions to at least some extent, but the consequences of a bad decision for a man will generally be several times worse. Get into a fatal wreck driving drunk as a man? You're facing maybe 20 years in prison. As a woman? You'll be out in three with good behavior. Fly into a fit of rage one night at work as man and damage some company property? Fired. Immediately. As a woman? Get a written warning. Get into debt as a man and lose your home? Welcome to the streets. Sorry that the shelter's full, we were too busy throwing money at the five different women's shelters before we could get around to find a way to accommodate all the men. Get into debt as a woman and lose your home? Billy Beta shows up and gives you a nice, warm place to say, with your very own queen-sized bed in exchange for one pair of your dirty socks every week. So yes, women are still sort of responsible for their actions, but the amount of responsibility they face compared to a man is kind of insignificant.

[–]justfortingles0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do admire that you are concerned about misogyny in trp. I would argue that the theory itself is mostly neutral, but some men who follow it are misogynists of varying degrees and some men aren't.

Men and women are different, not equal.

I would say that trp does recommend that men nurture strong boundaries and learn self love. In fact, I think it encourages men to become the best versions of themselves.

The whole "treating women like children" thing is not necessarily misogynistic. Women *in general* have a larger range of emotional experience than men and often have a more difficult time controlling their actions when they are overwhelmed by strong emotions. Kind of like children...

Acknowledging this truth and teaching men how to deal with it in a constructive manner (by remaining calm, not taking the outbursts too seriously and demanding mature behaviour) can actually really help a woman who is feeling out-of-control. This is an example of kind, loving, and empathetic problem solving. It is not misogynistic for a man to use his generally greater ability to remain calm and stoic to help the people in his life who he cares about.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

You have to love a group of people complaining that others aren’t held accountable for their actions when they routinely say things like “community property isn’t faaaaaaaair”, even though they knew it was the law well before they got married, or “her choosing to have a kid I didn’t want isn’t faaaaaaair!” even though they didn’t bother to use protection.

The “treat women like children” attitude is not uncommon among men at the bottom of the social hierarchy. It’s not limited to TRPs. It’s not that they even care about “accountability,” it’s that they like the idea of child because a child obeys, doesn’t challenge and doesn’t know the adult doesn’t know what the f they’re doing.

That or they’re just closeted pedos.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

The same people who complain about equalist feminists talking about the wage gap then go on to complain endlessly about whatever pet cause they dream up about men's equalism. And yeah the giant elephant in the room in the a US with black vs white equalism. I'm sure that's a third rail they are just about to address.

Oh well hopefully some peeps will understand that terpo beliefs are maturity stunting nonsense as was the point of the post.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Few have even the basic understanding of economics or culture to even begin to grasp that 99% of what they complain about has little to nothing to do with feminism.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

And even less have an understand of how feminism has affected things over the years. But hey feminism has never affected society right? Community property was never a feminist thing nor is Title IX or Dear Colleague Letters, or Duluth Model.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Do I need to remind you of the impetus for every single one of those examples? Hint: men had power over women and were abusing it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So you are admitting feminism has an affect on society or are you still going to deny this? And instead blame men and capitalism?

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Of course it does. I never denied this. But you want me to get behind the idea that feminists are responsible for creeps, uggos and broke losers being celibate. Which I’ll accept the day you accept that the fast food industry is responsible for obese women being single.

Capitalism also has an effect on society.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But you want me to get behind the idea that feminists are responsible for creeps, uggos and broke losers being celibate.

Despite I don't, but I guess its no surprise you put words in my mouth and create a strawman out of it.

Which I’ll accept the day you accept that the fast food industry is responsible for obese women being single.

Tell me do you like coming up with conspiracy theories? Obese women themselves are to blame for being single not fast food.

Capitalism also has an effect on society.

It does, but you clearly don't understand how capitalism affects society.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You have to love a group of people complaining that others aren’t held accountable for their actions when they routinely say things like “community property isn’t faaaaaaaair”, even though they knew it was the law well before they got married,

Because that's totally an apple to apple comparison not.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

When you get married in a cp state you’re well aware that should you split up property is divided 50/50. Complaining that you shouldn’t have to is not wanting to accept responsibility for your choices.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What does that have to do with wanting others to be held accountable? Especially when they are women? As it stands now only men are to be held accountable never women as doing so is sexism.

[–]beachredwhineCongratulations![S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

As it stands now only men are to be held accountable never women as doing so is sexism.

This is just psycho extremist nonsense that prevents all ability to debate since you don't actually believe this and if we address the psychotic nonsense you claim directly you'll just fall back to a less extreme position, defend it for a moment, claim it should be obvious no one would actually believe such insanity, and then instantly go back to your incredibly extremist position the moment the waste of debate is done.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I love how totally hand wave away facts because they don't fit your feminist narrative here. But again its not like feminists do anything about women getting less prison time than men, oh wait they do as they advocate for women to get none. And its not like feminists continuously defend female rapists, and totally over look when women grope men.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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