TheRedArchive

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46

So a lot of guys today complain about feminists and how women aren't feminine anymore. How women are bitchy, demanding and expect too much! Women want the best guy when they themselves are bitchy , overweight and have a bad personality. Women are masculine and not submissive to men.

When you actually think about it though, men don't want submissive women.. Well they do.. but not in the normal way. Most men want women who are only submissive during sex. They want a woman who is easy to fuck, and has NO demands outside of the bedroom. They want a woman who they don't have to take care of outside of the bedroom. They're not willing to support a woman. Submissiveness to them is purely sexual and is fetishised.

This mentality is pushed as being 'feminist', but in reality it benefits men way more than it benefits women. It is labelled as 'respect' when a man dominates you in the bedroom, pressuring you to engage in kinky sex acts, but is actually a loser and a weak man in real life.

It should be known that when a man said he likes submissive women, usually he means he want a woman to never reject him sexually. It doesn't mean he is actually 'dominant' or 'responsible'. If a man tries to paint him sexually dominating you but not taking responsibility as 'respect', he is a dangerous man and should be avoided.

CMV.


[–]petrichordiummidsommar pill33 points34 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

You’re making a lot of good points, even if you veer into your usual weirdo issues with modern dating that you’re trying to lay largely at men’s feet, when women are very much equal or greater instigators of ANY trend you see in 21st century dating.

Like i get that you find BDSM friendly feminism cheesy, but stop pretending that just bc You don’t like it, that thus women as a whole don’t “really” like or benefit from it. The simple fact is there are MYRIAD women who profess to want EXACTLY a man who is “dominant” sexually but treats them like an equal in the relationship.

I realize an equal is different from a nurturing mommy figure/bang maid! But The entire male world isn’t the feckless tendievore autists you get to punch down on and dunk on here.

So here in gender wars internetland: yeah, you’re right. But out there in the Real World (tm) there are a shit ton of women who are struggling with the dichotomy between the public lives they value / the gender models they consciously respect, while realizing that their erotic drives follow a different beat.

Don’t minimize how confusing that can be for everyone, men and women, just bc you’re a double stacked edgelordess who thinks you’re better than those girls.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You've pretty much said everything I wanted to.

OP is making a mistake if she (?) is basing her view of men on the spergs of PPD.

I'm in the BDSM scene, it's how I met my gf, and there's plenty of women who like to be submissive in their whole relationship not only in the bedroom. Conversely there's also a lot of men who find that too stressful and only want to dominate a woman sexually. And there's a lot of grey areas in between from both men and women.

Also I don't get the problem OP is trying to make. So what if the men here do want a woman who is 24/7 submissive? If that's the case they should go out and find a woman who wants that lifestyle. There's plenty of them around. And there's no reason for them to care in randos on the internet consider such a desire to be "anti-feminist" or whatever. As long as it's a consensual dynamic there is no problem.

I'm in such a relationship myself. If anything it is my girlfriend who wants me to give her more rules and more control. But it is legit time consuming. But our relationship dynamic is I'm the one in charge. She should not want it any other way. Me neither, I find it fun and we're super close.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

better than those girls.

I speak for women because I am like other women and I know how they feel.

[–]petrichordiummidsommar pill14 points15 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

No! That’s what I’m saying. You don’t speak for most of the women that 21st century men encounter while dating. You’re a fucking weirdo!

You may speak for many of the women you’re drawn to or friends with, but genuinely: anyone who spends a lot of time on gendercritical is a fucking weirdo by 21st century standards.

That’s fine! I’m a weirdo too. But you don’t see me universalizing for men. That’s where you falter.

There’s an OG Martin Luther quote that God will often use one fool to flog another. And you make a greatly effective neckbeard flogger! They should pay you for that.

But your opinions are not universally feminine, and so it’s disingenuous of you to act like the men you encounter out there in life aren’t somewhat rationally responding to sexual incentives they encounter from women they find desirable.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

'feminine'

Do you even know what that means?

I like gendercritical because it is one of the only female spaces online, which are not part of social media.

[–]petrichordiummidsommar pill4 points5 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Neither of us know what phrase means then lol. What matters is the vast majority of women... who would be Bored as SHIT by that space. Those are the women men are trying their best (or at least their good) to attract.

By your standards MGTOW is a bastion of “masculinity”

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

i have visited both MGTOW and gender critical. I have been part of redpill and mgtow for quite while now, and I have tried to understand the male perspective that these men have. MGTOW is mainly memes, gendercritical is more about protecting women from men. (women should protect themselves from men because men are dangerous).

I also frequent the nail polish subreddit, and TV show subreddits. You just look at what affirms your beliefs about me. I have talked to women about the issues that are presented in gender critical and I never even realised it.

Also, if you stalk my reddit account to see where I post to make your mind about my current post, then it is you that has nothing better to do. Get over it.

[–]petrichordiummidsommar pill4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It takes two seconds to look over someone’s posts and develop a psychological profile. That’s one of the things i find fascinating here. Don’t get me wrong, you’re vaguely interesting, but you’re a blue ribbon weirdo, and you should remember that when trying to date and universalize norms about how others humans do it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why do you make so many assumptions about me? Have you got nothing better to do? Just take my post at face value.

Also, 'vaguely interesting', yet you literally stalk my profile.

[–]petrichordiummidsommar pill5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You’re a weirdo bc you define a two second glance as “Stalking”. I promise you i “stalk” some of our resident neckbeards just as much when they post something weird. You gotta know where this shit comes from!

But chiefly if you want free advice: you are simultaneously repulsed by how “emasculated” modern men are but equally hateful of raw masculinity. It’s just as much of a contradiction as the libfem subs who bust balls at work and then wanna go get tied down by their broke bartender boyfriend.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You literally have no idea at what I do in my personal life or what type of men I like. Keep making assumptions.

[–]peterlongcLove.Is.The.Drug1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i really enjoyed this interaction. thanks to both of you

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

gendercritical is more about protecting women from men

Despite its not. Its about promoting hate towards men something you clearly have if you think only men are dangerous which I like wager is the case. By the way saying men are dangerous isn't going to do you any favors. And if you claim to say you like men, that is utter bs when you take part in subs like gendercritical.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

PurplePillDebate is mainly a woman hating server, so by that definition you're a woman hater.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

lol wut? One this is a sub not a sever. Two your a woman hater as well. But I guess you here to troll nothing more.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

right so I hate everyone. How about you? Why do my posts bother you so much?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

There are several female spaces online these days. You probably like /r/GenderCritical due to it being a man hating feminists space, a view you likely have as well.

[–]LeaneGenovaBreaker of (comment) Chains0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

/r/GenderCritical is the worst of the worst, given it's comprised of TERFs who are pretty much completely repugnant.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's only considered the worse due to the TERFs but its the same in other subs like /r/TrollXChromosomes Chromosome as well.

[–]LeaneGenovaBreaker of (comment) Chains0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nah. I'm a frequent reader of /r/TrollYChromosome and /r/TrollXChromosomes and they're not bad at all. Ya'll just get salty, that's all.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

TrollY is basically male feminists. TrollX every day least has one male hating thread if not more.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lol. More like you know how YOU feel not how all women feel.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What is the ideal relationship, ideal man and what does the man get from your ideal conceptual relationship.

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer27 points28 points  (59 children) | Copy Link

There are a lot of men(and women) who hang around on these places who literally believe that men's natural place is to lord over women. I suspect a lot of these people who believe this are the ones who are obsessed with "submissive" women. I would not think it is about them wanting submissive women, but more the motivation is them wanting to be in a superior position.

[–]Venicedreaming2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I never understand the men who don’t even make enough money to feed anyone besides himself wanting to play lord of the castle. And I never understand the women who wanna be housewives but don’t wanna do housework. Single income families are no longer very common so people need to get used to shared responsibly and stop the silly king of the castle game. No one is king, it’s a partnership, learn to compromise

[–]MoodyBrizo 1 points [recovered]  (50 children) | Copy Link

men's natural place is to lord over women.

I think more women think this than men.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.12 points13 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Certainly not here on ppd

[–]mwait19 points20 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Of course not here. The broads on this sub would go to their grave before admitting they were anything like most women in real life

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't think many women here legitimately believe such a thing, but you can believe it's just lies if you want. I can't stop you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So the first claim that a lot of men here are like x is true, but when there's a claim that the women here are like y, it's not true?

[–]aznphenix1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is sublime saying that the OP's right?

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In this case absolutely, it depends on what x and y are of course. There’s also a lot more animosity towards women from the men here than animosity towards men from the women here. I don’t think anyone who is being honest and unbiased and who has experience here could legitimately argue otherwise. There’s a lot more “men are superior” than vice versa and even more of a “women’s place is subordinate to her man’s”. Some women here have this mindset too as Electra said.

[–]GridReXXit be like that7 points8 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

It really sounds like you, a man, want this to be true.

[–]aretournerPPD = mimophant party7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

This place is a little snowflakey on the female side, at times.

That said, I'm not like those other broads. I'm much better.

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I'm not like other girls because I admit to being just like the other girls.

AWALT.

[–]aretournerPPD = mimophant party0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Someone needs to make this their flair.

"'Like all the other girls' and therefore not like all the other girls."

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I actually have that as my flair on /r/notlikeothergirls lol

[–]aretournerPPD = mimophant party0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Then it must be true.

Also omg one of the mods there is 'heckicopter' - that's funny af.

[–]GridReXXit be like that-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like getting my nails done and twirling around the house with my besties sipping Chardonnay. I like what I like and don’t like what I don’t like. Let’s all own our ish!

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill5 points6 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

Lol maybe in the deep south. Gl finding that most places

[–]MoodyBrizo 1 points [recovered]  (27 children) | Copy Link

No it is most places. Obviously if you phrased it as "Do you want a man to lord over you" you'd get a resounding hell no feminist choir. This is a frontal cortex vs lizard brain thing. No woman consciously wants a man to rule her. But every woman wants a man to rule over her.

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill20 points21 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

No we don’t. We just want them to manage to get their clothes in the laundry basket and do their half of the chores.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Women always talk a big game about how much they want to lead

And then they end up up to their eyeballs in debt, tons of wasteful consumer crap laying around everywhere, reliant on drugs to get through the day, whining about how unhappy they are

lol men too tho

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill12 points13 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

“Always?” No they don’t. I don’t want to lead. I don’t want to follow either. I want to live comfortably in my bubble of solitude with my pets and my partner, who is also a solitary oyster. It’s why we work so well together.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost-2 points-1 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Someone has to lead , if nobody leads nothing happens

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill12 points13 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Nobody needs to lead if you are equal partners.

[–]thrownaway2thewind1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We need a better way to find a woman like you and filter out the rest

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Ime that never happens , someone always leads

Like what you describe sounds like you both like to lead for yourself and not follow others. Which is very different from “I never lead I never follow” which is like, sitting in a room and doing nothing.

Idk tho ime people who say they dont like to lead and don’t like to follow usually follow just fine in the presence of competent leadership

[–]MoodyBrizo 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Are you dating/marrying retards that don't know how to not leave their clothes where they take them off?

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not at present. In fact I would say he is the more organized of the two of us.

[–]aznphenix2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you saying most men are retards? It's mildly annoying but it's not a dumb thing.

[–]poopidydoopscoop0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Riiiiight, that's ALL you want. Oversimplification at its finest. Any real facts or evidence you'd like to follow up this horrendous comment with?

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer9 points10 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

No woman consciously wants a man to rule her. But every woman wants a man to rule over her.

The convenience of this is you can not possibly disprove or prove this.

[–]funobtainium3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Except when women say "no, in fact, we do not want that," and they ignore that response because they don't like it.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

People never say “I’m a follower” but they do respond well to a person who jumps in an assumes leadership

[–]funobtainium2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, in the middle of a disaster/crisis or a work project. Sometimes that person is me.

If I wanted someone to boss me around at home, I'd have stayed at my parents' house.

[–]ImsomnilandNo Pills thnx3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If I wanted someone to boss me around at home, I'd have stayed at my parents' house.

Leadership is not about "bossiness" at all.

I personally prefer and am currently in a relationship where we take turns leading each other...but you can't have two people lead at the same time. It's like ballroom dancing, you can't have two follows or two leads dancing with each other. That's the dynamic of relationships--whether it's friendships, Fuck buddies or life partners.

What RP guys say and what I have personally observed anecdotally as true (but not what I want or am trying to do in my relationship) is that women generally DO want men to lead them. This doesn't mean they want men to tell them what to do, but they do want them to LEAD. I.E. Take care of shit. Women want men who take care of themselves (in appearance, health and fitness) and are responsible for care of their friends, family and job. If they are living exemplary lives--the life of someone who is leading others in different domains of life--then they will want that person for themselves. They'll want the man to take leadership in their relationship: she'll expect him to show the same responsibility and care that he shows towards others towards her happiness and expect him to make a plan for their future (by initiating and then providing for subsequent relationship changes: housing/engagement/wedding/kid).

I don't appreciate that mindset myself and am not interested in it. I want to be on equal footings with my partner because I think it's healthier. But I've noticed that those largely are the expectations women have for men.

[–]thrownaway2thewind0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't appreciate that mindset myself and am not interested in it. I want to be on equal footings with my partner because I think it's healthier. But I've noticed that those largely are the expectations women have for men.

This, the last girl I dated was a feminist type and yet also straight up told me that I have to plan everything we do and where we go. I would much rather sit down, lay out both of our interests (if she even had any other than whining) and make a decision together like a team so both of us are happy. But Nooo, even the feminist sjw type needed the guy to take command and polish the ground she walks on

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not “bossing around” again here we go with how people THINK leadership looks. Yeah no shit I wouldn’t want to follow a bossy person around either

[–]aretournerPPD = mimophant party3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No woman consciously wants a man to rule her. But every woman wants a man to rule over her.

Oh dear.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What makes you think women want that?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Gl finding that most places

It's easy just hit up the local BDSM scene.

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That may be true, but I am talking about on here.

[–]funobtainium1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Zero women that I know IRL.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Would more say its primary RP men who have this obsession than a lot of men. As its really only those guys you see this from no other men. As they hold traditionalist views that are rooted in Christianity (referring to the man must be the head of the family). In reality these men are insecure boys pounding their chest to show how alpha they are.

[–]mercuryg1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

There are a lot of men(and women) who hang around on these places who literally believe that men's natural place is to lord over women.

In what way though? What do you mean by lord over?

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They want "men"(this term is arguable because they usually mean 'men like themselves') to have power over women.

[–]mercuryg-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, i would say "lord over" means they want more power than what is due. Simply the desire to have a certain amount of power over your partner isn't wrong in and of itself. For one because that's part of having a relationship, you need a certain amount of power to keep your man in check right? So you hold him accountable and punish him if he oversteps his boundaries. Just like the man needs a certain amount of power keep his wife in check. Second because there's no getting around it, it's part of what a relationship is, when two people associate in any way at all, a power balance exists. Do you agree with me on this?

The question isn't if men and women shouldn't have power over each other, because they will one way or another anyway. That arises simply out of the fact that we each have something the other wants. The question is where exactly do you draw the line?

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Usually what leadership looks like for me

“Hey you , here’s this thing that i fell into (read: did a ton of work to run down but I’m not letting that on) and I’ve got an extra spot if you wanna join, I’m really excited about it bc xyz”

It isn’t lording over women as my natural place, it’s more like running down a bunch of details to make things happen, and then surprise surprise people want to come along

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Who?

Who are these men you claim are in such large numbers? We hear the media talk about it but it seems like it is less than 5% of the total male population.

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A large number of men on here. I doubt most men actually think this way.

[–]itiswr1ttenEndorsed Negotiable Instrument18 points19 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Conflating male fantasy with their actions (don't listen to their words, follow their actions) is the mistake here. Much like the "I said biiiitch" skit from Key and Peele, men like to bloviate but few follow through. Unsurprisingly, the type of man suited to this arrangement is hard to find.

The fantasy is a sexually submissive women who doesn't require the masculine polarity of care, protection, and resources in return. Men might write words on the internet suggesting this deal is possible long term, but anyone with experience knows it is unsustainable.

Now let's flip to the modern empowered women fantasy. They are also bloviating all over the internet how they work for themselves, don't need no man, use them just for sex, etc. But as a yin to the yang of "I said biiiitch" the lede is buried in the fact the supermajority of heterosexual women want male partners who lead them, not follow them.

So...you are wrong for taking the fantasy at face value. Men interested in something beyond a short term relationship will reward or learn to reward traditional femininity with traditional masculinity or they won't keep women around long.

Where your personal lede is buried is when you snuck in the word "responsibility" but didn't define it. Sounds like what you're saying is for yourself, you're only willing to trade OVERTLY for this arrangement, and you expect the man to take care of you in a holistic way.

This is demanding and unattractive to the type of man that would be willing to invest the positive side of his polarity, because other women will provide it upfront and drop him if he doesn't follow through. This is basic failed female sexual strategy to withhold the feminine while demanding the masculine

[–]Salty-Bastard8 points9 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Men interested in something beyond a short term relationship will reward or learn to reward traditional femininity with traditional masculinity or they won't keep women around long.

All you have to do is read how the majority of our married sisters on PPD describe their husbands to understand this.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I've said a version of this before and been flat out told I'm wrong by the legion of angry bois. Ok my dude. Men have no standards of their own, especially not high ones, and will accept whatever any thot that can slap a sandwich together and get him off is offering because "men are built that way and wymyn look up to it." Not every guy is a beast of relationship burden, this is somehow controversial.

But saying my husband would hand me divorce papers with a smile if I turned into a dumpy, low libido complainer or let our kids turn into feral filthy freaks is met with "yeah, well obviously." Does not compute.

I won't even get into how "men" with expectations and self esteem reward traditional femininity, or express happiness with what and who they have. I don't have a trigger warning comprehensive enough 😂

And (hopefully) obviously none of this is @ you, you're pretty swell.

[–]Salty-Bastard1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I can't imagine how a post about men with expectations and self esteem reward traditional femininity would go over here.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Salty-Bastard1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Haha. That reminds me of the Thunderbirds, you're too young to know about that though.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I used my Google-Fu, and yes very similar!

[–]Salty-Bastard1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Those South Park kids did them a homage spoof clearly!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm young and watched Thunderbirds when I was growing up man! But I'm British, it was probably more popular here since it's a British show.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Men have no standards of their own, especially not high ones, and will accept whatever any thot that can slap a sandwich together

But saying my husband would hand me divorce papers with a smile if I turned into a dumpy, low libido complainer or let our kids turn into feral filthy freaks is met with "yeah, well obviously." Does not compute.

These views come from two different types of men.

The first is the incel view, because they're thirsty af so they project their thirst onto their whole gender.

The second is the more "normie" view if you will from men with abundance mentality.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm more relieved than you know to see this understood by men when it happens. That projected gender-wide incel thirst is annoying as fuck to deal with. It's just to bad tool to invalidate "disgusting femoids" with no basis in reality. I can't decide if they're terribly hurt men with standards women will meet exist, or if they really think they can speak for their entire gender with absolute confidence.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Incels are fucked in the head and attempting to understand them is a futile waste of precious time, that's my advice.

[–]Uncommon_Sensed_1234 1 points [recovered]  (62 children) | Copy Link

Many men are using submissive to mean a woman who is willing to compromise for the sake of the relationship. This may be compromising in having more sex or backing off making complaints if she has a dominant personality. This is not so much submission as it is good relationship skils.

In past threads similar to this one lots of guys wanted a woman with an education who made a good income. This is not solely our of fear of divorce rape but because they don't want the responsibility of being the leader any more than women want to be dependent upon them.

Truth be told, most men couldn't handle being the real leader of the family and having the financial responsibility for a wife and kids. The only ones doing this now are running in religious circles.

To have a truly submissive woman, you must strip her down of all options to leave by denying her employment, setting boundaries as to who she can associate with to avoid negative influences, and making her feel valued all at the same time. It's a tall order.

[–]aretournerPPD = mimophant party5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

To have a truly submissive woman, you must strip her down of all options to leave by denying her employment, setting boundaries as to who she can associate with to avoid negative influences

This is pretty much the opposite of my opinion on this. Nothing would make me feel less willing to naturally submit than some ape disallowing me to work/hang out with other humans. That's some 'I Am A Terrified Man' shit right there.

[–]Uncommon_Sensed_1234 1 points [recovered]  (10 children) | Copy Link

"Nothing would make me feel less willing to naturally submit...".

The fact that your acting upon your natural submission is contingent upon your feelings shows the need for the man to enhance your natural submission by removing the obstacles to your truly submitting.

[–]aretournerPPD = mimophant party1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Natural submission is contingent upon feelings. Anything else is just forced/coerced and not genuine.

But I think you might be joking in which case ignore my earnest response.

[–]Uncommon_Sensed_1234 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

Not joking. Submission contingent upon feelings is not giving the man real submission. It is still the woman controlling the relationship and blocking any decisions the man makes which she does not feel like following.

[–]aretournerPPD = mimophant party1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Well then it looks like you and I have opposing definitions of submission. To me, it has to not be a choice. I have to feel compelled to submit. It can't be forced. If it is, it's not real.

And don't come back at me with "well threatening to slay a woman's whole family if she doesn't submit will also leave her with no choice but to submit" - I'm not talking about the 0.01% of cases of female submission that involve actual criminal acts. I'm talking about real world people in non 24/7 BDSM relationships.

I do think I might see what you might be getting at (?) tho. There was once this blog, a long time ago on the internets, about this couple where the man did things like put clothespins on her nipples and needles through her labia (yep, there were pics) and half the content was "I'm his slavewhoreslut he owns me he inflicts extreme pain on me because I'm bad" and the other half was unintentionally hilarious complaining about how much effort it took to persuade the poor husband to spend hours every week engaging in elaborate pain-infliction scenarios when there was a game on or he wanted to hang with his buddies.

Like what I'm saying is that I understand in that scenario she was the 'real' dominant, in many ways. But I stand by what I said above, too. Physically forcing me onto my knees is one thing. Being a man who through merely existing has me willingly sinking to my knees...is another.

[–]Uncommon_Sensed_1234 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

True submission as I define it works in an hierarchical nature. For instance the Vice President aligns with the President regardless if his position differs from the President's.

A naturally submissive woman will do much the same. She may feel one way but will chose to align in submission to her leader.

So, yes, submission can be natural and also be a choice depending upon the circumstances.

I was not addressing sexual play at all.

[–]aretournerPPD = mimophant party0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

True submission as I define it works in an hierarchical nature. For instance the Vice President aligns with the President regardless if his position on an issue differs from the President's.

I understand what you mean. I always actually wondered if I should have joined the military, because there's something orderly and comforting about a clear, established hierarchy. It would make life easier (or so i think sometimes). But I wouldn't personally characterize that as 'natural' in that, well, it's man-made/man-established. Those rules didn't spontaneously materialize one day and = an army. Those rules were pondered and written and enacted by humans, consciously. If they were suddenly declared void, there would probably be quite a lot of disorder and chaos in whatever armed force we're talking about.

In my opinion, a naturally submissive person doesn't need those written rules. That person will submit regardless of the official 'rules.' In that armed force, if the rules are suddenly declared void, nothing changes because the submissive types were never basing their submission on a conscious choice to follow written/official rules.

This has now walked right up to the line of being a semantic discussion - about the word 'natural,' too, which is one that often seems to cause trouble. You and I just have different definitions of what natural submission is. That's fine.

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I always actually wondered if I should have joined the military, because there's something orderly and comforting about a clear, established hierarchy.

This glorification is hardly accurate. Trust me when I say there's nothing worse than being in a shitty position in the military and getting a thousand and one conflicting orders and being stuck, knowing you're going to feel the brunt of it because somebody outranks you even though they're incompetent or pants-shittingly immature for their age and position.

Ideally, that shouldn't happen. The rules exist so that doesn't happen. And still, it's depressingly common.

When things work correctly, you're right, and it's a dream. But they very often don't.

[–]aretournerPPD = mimophant party0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This glorification is hardly accurate.

That really wasn't an attempt to 'glorify' the military - it was more me expressing my own enjoyment of an orderly hierarchy. I know irl the armed forces are not perfectly run and flawless examples of human competence (and I know this mostly due to stories from my sibling in the military).

[–]Daniel_Bryan_FanBlue Pill Man0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

you’re describing subjugation not submission. Not that I support either.

[–]Uncommon_Sensed_1234 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

If he got the woman as part of the spoils of war subjugation would be a more accurate description.

But I'm assuming he dated her.

[–]Daniel_Bryan_FanBlue Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are describing the woman having literally no control at all or choice in her relationship, becoming completely home bound and barred from interacting with anyone. Subjugation was putting it lightly, you’re pretty sick.

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

To have a truly submissive woman, you must strip her down of all options to leave by denying her employment, setting boundaries as to who she can associate with to avoid negative influences, and making her feel valued all at the same time. It's a tall order.

That doesn't sound like submission to me, it sounds like oppression or at the least dependence, but it might just be a terminology issue, I can't quite parse that out.

IMO, the critical part is CHOICE. Maybe I'm looking at this through the female lens, but I cannot quantify how much I appreciate being the CHOSEN one in my relationship. He could have other women, but he CHOSE me and found me worthy, something I was or did was recognized and valued as better than others. He is exposed to other women, he could pursue them, but I'm the one he WANTED.

The context you're describing, being stripped and restricted of outlets and options like a job or "negative influences," that is removing a level of autonomy, to a degree. Personally I'd feel more worthy if she was left to her own devices with no restrictions, but still made the choice to avoid them for my sake.

Submission doesn't happen without choice, is basically what I'm trying to say. When you remove the ability to choose, you're not actually getting submission.

And it's a tall order, I agree with you about that bit, most men (and most women) aren't up to the task. But, as I was told once by a very charming and devilish chap, submission is great-but it's best when it's earned.

[–]Uncommon_Sensed_1234 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Most women who claim to be submissive will only be submissive by their terms and cease being upon disagreement with their husbands. That is why women say choice is so important.

Because choice as to how and when she will be submissive negates real submission and makes it more akin to role playing. She can chose when to opt out of submission which means she really controlled the relationship and not her husband.

That is why the husband who wants a submissive wife must restrict her to homelife. And yes, this makes her dependent on him but also promotes her continued interest in making him happy.

A submissive woman with a career is just a disagreement away from being an independent careee woman who opts for divorce when she can no longer fool her husband with her fake submission and be the one running the show.

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You speak of her having incentive to keep him happy, but what's his incentive to keep her happy?

In this scenario, there simply isn't one.

She can chose when to opt out of submission which means she really controlled the relationship and not her husband.

The definition of "Submission" according to Google is: "ready to conform to the authority or will of others."

Your example strikes me as role-playing "submission." She doesn't have the option in this case to not conform, so it's actually, very literally, a roleplay. She does as she's told because she has no other option, so she plays the role of happily obedient.

A submissive woman with a career is just a disagreement away from being an independent career woman who opts for divorce when she can no longer fool her husband with her fake submission and be the one running the show.

Actual submission IMO would be having those things-or at least the option of those things-and remaining faithful and happy with her man anyways. I would respect the man more in a relationship if his wife had all the opportunities she wanted but she was happy with him after 30y, than one who restricted her to no life outside him and the family.

IME, a man who had no fear and was secure in his position in a relationship and picked a wife he vetted well and trusted would not need to restrict her in that manner. Their relationship may look traditional or modern, but he would not feel the need to restrict her in that manner because he knows she will choose him 1000 times over regardless of other offers or circumstance.

[–]Salty-Bastard0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right? Jesus, just wear some white cotton lingerie, call me Daddy, and let me tie you up on a Saturday night. We can all get back to the serious business on Monday morning.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree 100%.

And nah that's not just the female lens, I think the same as a guy.

A huge part of the turn on wrt my girlfriend being submissive is that she chooses to submit to me because she loves and trusts me enough to put herself in that position. It not only makes me feel sexy but also desired. It's emotionally fulfilling as well as sexually.

[–]321PK 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Truth be told, most men couldn't handle being the real leader of the family and having the financial responsibility for a wife and kids.

Ya!! You’re right. Def not a lot a lot of the dudes on Reddit. They don’t even want to get haircuts.

[–]Dash_of_islamBidet 4 Life>Toilet paper unwashed proles2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean the guys don't want to get haircuts?

Is long a hair a thing now? I

[–]321PK 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh I just meant that getting regular haircuts is like a basic thing.

[–]Dash_of_islamBidet 4 Life>Toilet paper unwashed proles0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Man people are weird.

I self taught myself how to trim my hair with only a comb, clippers, 2 different clipper guards and 2 mirrors.

I just went very slow the first time and came out great.

I cut my hair for 6 months and no one realized I had been cutting my own hair not a barber lol. Now I go to the barber again cuz it takes too long to do a side part taper myself

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19934 points5 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

To have a truly submissive woman, you must strip her down of all options to leave by denying her employment, setting boundaries as to who she can associate with to avoid negative influences, and making her feel valued all at the same time. It's a tall order.

so, males cant help but be slavemasters devoid of empathy. this is why radical feminism is on the rise among modern women.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (24 children) | Copy Link

Hey look fake news. Radical feminism or more so man hating feminism is on the rise because of you guys pulling the whole "you either with me or against me" mentality. And no woman wants to be called a sexist.

[–]Daniel_Bryan_FanBlue Pill Man1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Lol all of your posts are whining about women and feminism. The dude literally described how he wanted to destroy his wife mentally and completely control her. That that is not the comment you responded to kind of says it all.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (20 children) | Copy Link

One all my posts aren't on that, though if you could read you would see that. And two what the heck are you talking about? No dude is talking about being abusive here.

[–]Daniel_Bryan_FanBlue Pill Man0 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy Link

To have a truly submissive woman, you must strip her down of all options to leave by denying her employment, setting boundaries as to who she can associate with to avoid negative influences, and making her feel valued all at the same time. It's a tall order.

This was part of the comment that started this thread and you scrolled past that to deal with someone responding to that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (18 children) | Copy Link

The dude literally described how he wanted to destroy his wife mentally and completely control her.

Point where they said this. They never mention a wife, their gender, or them wanting this. Maybe you should read what people say more carefully before strawmanning.

[–]Daniel_Bryan_FanBlue Pill Man0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

The person is describing how they feel submission should be. That you don’t find anything wrong with that is the real problem

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

You have some major reading issues to say the least.

[–]Daniel_Bryan_FanBlue Pill Man0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

They defend the position over and over throughout the thread

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

women started forgoing relationships with men. they dont have babies anymore. that is as radical as it can get.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lol. You clearly are blinded to what /r/GenderCritical is pushing for if you think that is as radical as it can get. You should look into the swedish feminist group ROKS if you think it can't get any more radical.

[–]Uncommon_Sensed_1234 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

"and making her feel valued" is the part you are discounting. This is not just men. If I were a man this is what I'd do because I enjoy traditional women who serve their husbands and children

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19932 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

ah, yes, the old "make her think she likes being a doormat sexslave mommywife bangmaid".

it is strategy no. 4 in "How to Torture for Dummies".

[–]aretournerPPD = mimophant party0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

mommywife bangmaid

Awesome.

[–]Daniel_Bryan_FanBlue Pill Man0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

So gaslighting?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

That's not what gaslighting is.

[–]Daniel_Bryan_FanBlue Pill Man0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Trying to make someone feel crazy and doubt themselves is gaslighting. Telling someone they’re valued while completely degrading them would be a form of gaslighting.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Telling someone they’re valued while completely degrading them would be a form of gaslighting.

First of all no it wouldn't, second that's not what anyone was talking about in the first place.

[–]Daniel_Bryan_FanBlue Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

They were saying submission means the woman must be trapped in the home and completely dependent on the man with him making her every decision but somehow still making her feel valued. When someone said that would never make them want to submit they responded :

The fact that your acting upon your natural submission is contingent upon your feelings shows the need for the man to enhance your natural submission by removing the obstacles to your truly submitting.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can make someone feel valued without psychologically abusing them...

I don't agree with the whole locking her up in the castle thing either don't get me wrong, it's just a bugbear of mine seeing the term gaslighting misused constantly online.

[–]JustForPPDChemistry > All0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a tall order.

No, it's a lie. What you said above is totally incorrect. You don't do anything to a woman so she's submissive, she submits to you, based on respect and trust. The moment you have to take away anything from the woman, it is no longer domination/submission, it becomes abuse.

Truth be told, most men couldn't handle being the real leader of the family and having the financial responsibility for a wife and kids.

Prove this. Argue for it at least, instead of just insulting men.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

In past threads similar to this one lots of guys wanted a woman with an education who made a good income.

I'm sure a lot of men do want this and I get it because it makes sense. The sperg-lord contingent of PPD though doesn't value consistency. Heaven help you if you're a woman who *looks* like she makes money and is self sufficient. You like clothes and jewelry and makeup and can afford it, well. The jokes on you because you should be marketing yourself in a ponytail and yoga pants and not be so tryhard. <---Actual stuff I've read here. They have a hard enough day lamenting how women don't "need men" because they have an education and jobs just to read women have quality of life standards? But but...approaching is hardddddd don't you know? Stop doing your hair and makeup and take the gd jewelry off already! (but that bitch better not be a freeloader and suck a mean dick)

[–]Uncommon_Sensed_1234 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

You read a lot of stuff here. The only thing I've learned here is that nose rings and tattoos repel RP men and all women should wear one or the other, or both, as part of their vetting process.

[–]BajaBlast900 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have nose rings and tattoos but I guess I'm a savage.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup I fully agree. I don't have the nose piercing but I had the tattoo and owned my place halfway through dating my husband. It was very clear he wasn't a wallet, and somehow he didn't come down with a case of terminal nut shrinkage at me not being economically disadvantaged despite our age difference.

Edit: part of me does wonder if guys here know that it's not entirely uncommon for Dads to intentionally make their daughters look "high maintenance" to scare off the easy pickings low effort crowd. It probably doesn't matter, but it is kind of funny how often Dad is the original cockblock rather than the gynocentric conspiracy.

[–]aretournerPPD = mimophant party1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Heaven help you if you're a woman who looks like she makes money and is self sufficient. You like clothes and jewelry and makeup and can afford it, well. The jokes on you because you should be marketing yourself in a ponytail and yoga pants and not be so tryhard. <---Actual stuff I've read here. They have a hard enough day lamenting how women don't "need men" because they have an education and jobs just to read women have quality of life standards? But but...approaching is hardddddd don't you know?

Yup.

[–]FeyraPurple Pill Woman10 points11 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

Most men want women who are only submissive during sex. They want a woman who is easy to fuck, and has NO demands outside of the bedroom. They want a woman who they don't have to take care of outside of the bedroom. They're not willing to support a woman.

So...they want a sex toy?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

exactly.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

ahhh ok. Men want a sex toy. Let's go ahead pack it up in another groundbreaking, insightful thread of yours.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

This is why I'm here!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

To tell us that men only want sex toys, and don't have to take responsibility for their actions? Those are off the top of my head. You are the antithesis of why this sub exists.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Men here do those things. There are lots of posts which are outright shaming women.. so i dont really care

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Men here do those things.

Ok, so you're using bad male behavior to justify your behavior?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No, I'm showing that you have no right to complain

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait, so I don't have the right to complain but you do? How do you even function in life with such dissonance?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So you aren't doing a CMV but you are instead shit posting.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

These lazy or intentionally aggro cmv threads are really demoralizing.

[–]LeaneGenovaBreaker of (comment) Chains[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

OP, in order to have a proper CMV post, you must manifest a good faith belief to have your view challenged. I'm not seeing that here. Please keep that in mind going forward, as we will remove posts that don't comply with the rules of the subreddit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok, I will bear that in mind.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Wrong. Most men want a women who is nice to them and attracted to them, while also takes care of herself( not overweight, dresses well)

Stop projecting

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.9 points10 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

That’s what women want too!

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

No they do not, also demanding high social value is probably what tips the scales in most cases.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Nah

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

That doesn't dismiss anything. Why are men competiting against other men for higher social value constantly? Girls don't have to be the hottest one in the room to get attention, you just have to not be the worst one. For guys you have to be the best option for her to even consider you.

Please tell me where men and women's wants are equal in this?

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That’s too extreme, most women generally speaking want a guy they are attracted to who is nice to them and likes them back. When you get into more specifics, most people also want a partner with a steady, decent job. “Status” may be more important to women as a whole but that doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant to men or women will reject every single man who comes her way who isn’t tippity top status wise. That’s not realistic and not how it plays out in the real world. Men here like to say a woman’s “status” or job is irrelevant but that’s not how it plays out IRL either.

Most people will naturally be choosing dating partners among their own status just due to proximity and opportunity, for one. That goes for both men and women. And you see increasingly as the workplace changes women of higher “status” with men below them whether that’s job-wise, education, etc. You can try and tell me that’s all “settling” but it’s not my experience that all these women are unhappy with their choice in partner.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You think women aren't rejecting every single man that comes her way ? Even if they are equal.

Women's status is actually irrelevant, she can be a social outcast and do well in dating. Job is irreleavnt to most men. A lot of men are dating women that earn30k-40k. Someone has to, most women aren't that ambitious to chase 6 figure salaries. They have family goals instead.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No they aren't rejecting "every single man that comes her way" otherwise there would be not relationships, that doesn't even make sense.

My own experience tells me it isn't irrelevant to "men". Men do like ambitious, career-oriented women. Obviously not every woman/man has the same experience or goals, but I can't tell you how many men I met seemed more interested in me after I told them I was in law school. Maybe they just found it worthy of respect who knows, but that is what I observed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree with you that women do give some preference to guys with higher "social value" but by "be the best option" I assume you mean HER best option right?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes HER best option.

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Fuck that noise. I want a she demon who tries to suck every last ounce out of me and then begs for more. Last one like that I was afraid was going to break the couch in the room. I told myself I need to do more cardio so I can keep up next time.

[–]yastru0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nobody cares about your invented sex life.

[–]diffdedbedGreen Eyed Devil-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Whatever you need to think to feel better.

[–]CainPrice8 points9 points  (43 children) | Copy Link

This depends on the man, really.

Some men are weak, non-confident, and terrible leaders. Too timid to even plan a date without asking their woman's opinions and advice (which is pretty much the same as asking her permission and giving her the final leadership decision). Much less manage a household and guide a family toward the future. They'd love to be respected as leaders and fucked like champs by women, but haven't earned that respect.

However, a decent number of men try to be good leaders and get shot down by bitchy, shitty women who don't respect them, even though they're respectable men. Because for some women, the idea of submitting to any man, in any way, for any reason is deplorable. It boggles me that the kind of woman who is completely unwilling to submit herself to a boyfriend she trusts to lead their relationship and eventually a husband she trusts to lead their family can complain out the other side of her mouth about how all she ever ends up dating are weak baby men who want sex but never want responsibility.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer12 points13 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

It boggles me that the kind of woman who is completely unwilling to submit herself to a boyfriend she trusts to lead their relationship and eventually a husband she trusts to lead their family can complain out the other side of her mouth about how all she ever ends up dating are weak baby men who want sex but never want responsibility.

Or, maybe, we find men who are competent and accept the fact that we are competent too? Relationships don't have to be a power struggled unless you make them that way. I don't want to "lead" anyone (unless I'm compensated for it, heh) and I have no need to be "led," either. I take care of my shit; my man takes care of his.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes9 points10 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

This is exactly how I am. I have no desire to lead or be led; fortunately, neither does my husband.

It's interesting because he's naturally very headstrong and stubborn, not in a bossy way, but in that he absolutely loathes being told what to do and will do the opposite just out of defiance. I learned early on that I couldn't bend him to my will even if I wanted to.

On the other hand, while I also hate being told what to do, I'm naturally a pushover. I don't like that I'm like that, and it gets me taken advantage of more often than not, so I'm lucky to have a partner who isn't interested in bossing me around or steamrolling me.

I really like the RPW dominance threshold theory, and according to that, my husband and I have a LLL relationship (meaning we both have a low tendency to dominate and I have a low threshold for dominance). That's my ideal relationship, where we can both do our own thing competently and neither of us is interested in dictating what the other does.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

I have no desire to lead or be led; fortunately, neither does my husband.

How does this work practically when a decision needs to be made ? It seems like you wouldn’t get anything done

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I mean, we just... make the decision? The fact that neither of us like to be the default "leader" doesn't mean we can't be decisive when the situation calls for it. Someone says "Hmm let's do XYZ" and the other person says "Yeah that sounds good" or "No I don't think that's a good idea and here's why" and then we adjust plans accordingly if needed. We're aligned on the big things, and neither of us are interested in micromanaging on the small things so whoever cares more generally wins out.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh ok. I mean so y’all both do have some leadership ability it’s just like—- you’re not trying to exercise it over each other.

Is that fair?

I mean like that, it makes sense to me. When I think of people who don’t lead at all I think of people who sit at home saying “I’m so bored somebody take me somewhere” bc they have no initiative

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I guess so. I wouldn't really call it "leadership ability." If I make a suggestion and he thinks it sounds like a good idea I don't consider that to be me "leading" him so much as us having similar values and trusting each other's judgment. But maybe I'm being pedantic.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah maybe I am too. Whenever I see this topic I feel like there’s some degree of people disconnecting about what specifically they see as “leading” or “submitting” etc

[–]philomexaSUNFUCKER2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I can't speak for OP, but in my household whoever has the know-how and/or the investment makes the decision. There's no unilateral leading or following, just case by case delegation based on skill, desire, and knowledge.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, exactly.

Like, I'm wayyy pickier about living spaces than he is, so when we were looking for a place to live he was happy to let me choose because he couldn't be bothered with it anyway (his only input was on location, and I was happy to adhere to his parameters on that). When it comes to vehicle or electronic purchases I give him the reigns 100% because I don't care about that stuff and I trust his expertise far more than my own.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That’s what I do as well, it’s just it usually tends to be me in most relationships I’m in. Like 70-30 or so. Not just relationships but friendships as well. Ime most people don’t like making decisions and do like it if someone already has a plan (especially if the plan sounds fun and interesting, and the planner is really excited about it)

[–]philomexaSUNFUCKER2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

well, PPD does self select for spergs and know-it-alls across the gender divide.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hear hear lol 👋🏼

[–]CainPrice4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There was an interesting theory on relationship power dynamics floating around out there somewhere. Something about how it's not just who's dominant and who's submissive, but that people have two axes that define them: How dominant you are, and how tolerant you are of your partner's dominance (and/or how much dominance you need from a partner).

For example, you can be a submissive person but have absolutely zero tolerance for a dominant partner. Picture the fat video gamer couple with dead-end jobs, neither one of which has any tolerance for anybody telling them what to do or comment on their lives. They're happy, they're both submissive, and they have no tolerance for dominance from their partners.

Or you can be a dominant person but also want a dominant partner. Picture the power-couple who's out all day at their respective jobs kicking ass in the business world. When they come home, they've had enough of dealing with subordinates and don't need that shit from their partner. They need a strong, independent partner who's busy climbing his or her own mountains instead of making coffee.

Then, there are both kinds of dominant-submissive pairings.

And it's not really a switch either, more of a spectrum. You don't have to be dominant or submissive. You might be a 4.9/10 on the dominance scale and a 3.7/10 on the how dominant you can tolerate your partner being scale. So a dominant guy would piss you off, but so would a completely non-dominant guy.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you're referring to this (or, if not, it's good further reading on the subject).

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

What women generally will try to do is say “I’m not leading” and then proceed to bitch and moan incessantly about every decision until the leader makes a decision they like

[–]reluctantly_red1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

and then proceed to bitch and moan incessantly about every decision

My first wife did this. I got to make most decisions. So whenever anything went wrong it was obviously my fault.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

lol it’s so weird to me that leadership even gets characterized as some kind of benefit? Like sure it’s nice to be in control but it also means people hold you responsible if it doesn’t pan out

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's always the guy's fault seems to be many people's default setting.

[–]OfSpock1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is a people trait. If I had a dollar for every time a man wanted me to do something then came and critiqued it, I'd have about $50,000 in a secret bank account.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree that men do it too, but it’s stereotypical feminine indirect communication

[–]OfSpock0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The communication was direct.

Man: You're in charge, choose and do it yourself.

Me: Make the choice and get about half way through.

Man: Why did you pick X instead of Y? And look, if you this it this way instead, it would be better.

Me: Are you finished your work?

Man: No, I just saw what you were doing and wanted to criticise/take the gloryhelp.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can’t really follow this example I need more context

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That sounds like the passive-aggressive behavior of a woman who has been told she has to surrender her agency to her husband.

I'm always mystified as to what kind of everyday household decisions require male "leadership." What, exactly, are men deciding? What to have for dinner? Whether or not to wash the truck? Which TV show to watch?

My man and I tend to operate pretty seamlessly without much conflict. I defer to him in his areas of expertise and he does likewise. Also, we generally agree on most things.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’d say leadership is the sum total of all decisions and in most of my relationships it’s roughly 70-30

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think the women you select for do this? This doesn’t sound familiar to my network of female friends.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This isn’t what I’m selecting for it’s what I’m selecting against

Anyway why would women ever interact this way woman to woman, it’s a very particular way of acting that typically only happens in dating

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19931 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

maybe because women dont want to be led? has that ever occurred to you? nope, dont think so.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Maybe women aren't a monolith hivemind? Has that ever occurred to you? Nope, don't think so.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

oh wow

you have no valid retort so you deflect. pathetic.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

It was a perfectly valid retort. You don't speak for all, or even most women. You are an outlier. Deal.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

nope. .die mad about it.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What's to be mad about? You're a man-hating NPC. You are utterly irrelevant to my existence. Your opinions are but farts in a hurricane.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19931 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

choke on it, then.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Uncivil, yet still incredibly boring. 0/10.

Edit: Uncivil, and a little downvoting bitch. U mad bro?

[–]CainPrice0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Depends on the woman. Some women, like you've said, have no tolerance for dominance from their partner.

However, other women have absolutely no tolerance for a weak, non-dominant partner.

And some women are in between.

The funny part is that a lot of the time, what a woman -says- she wants in a man is often the same shit she complains about.

Women who consider themselves strong, independent, leadership types who are absolutely unwilling to submit themselves to any man in any way shape or form are often the same women complaining that all of the guys they end up with are weak-willed man-babies who want sex but never seem to step up and take responsibility or take initiative and handle shit.

They want a responsible man with leadership qualities who steps up and handles crap like a boss, but they can't bring themselves to actually follow his leadership. And the very notion that any woman could even consider doing so is sexist and anti-feminist. So they end up with these passive, respectful guys that they said they wanted, but when these meek men want to have sex, they get pissed off because nobody gets aroused for meek men.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

they want a man who isnt a deadend-whatever. that doesnt mean there are only two options: an absolute loser and a tyrant.

[–]CainPrice2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's a really narrow segment of the male population women like that are after.

Most awesome, good-looking guys who have their shit together have some choices when it comes to women. They're not stuck with whoever happens to come along. They're happy doing the casual thing with different women, but when it comes time for a serious relationship, it's not usually going to be with a strong-willed, angry girl who's constantly challenging him. Not when you stand a girl like that next to a hot skinny 20-something in yoga pants who actually respects him and is receptive to things he wants.

Decent, respectable guys who have their shit together have choices, and they're going to pick the woman that makes them happier. The kind of women who think that doing stuff to make men happy is an imposition don't really rank in his world.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

i think even you dont believe all of this crap you have written.

modern women wont tolerate a slut who has been around and wants them to do stuff for their overpriced peen.

[–]CainPrice-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You'd be surprised what women will tolerate. Most men are weak, timid babies. Put a guy who takes care of himself who's actually fun and interesting in play, and most women will give him more leeway than average. Better than fucking a loser.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is true. I know women who have been with men who are whiney and pathetic, yet they still had sex with him.

[–]mistresswhat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The only part of this I disagree with is that they don't even really want sexually submissive women. Sexually submissive women have fantasies of their own and sexual domination is hard work that requires effort and thought about the other person's desires.

[–]we-are-men-with-ven1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In my experience not appearing submissive outside the bedroom works wonders. Not being needy and being very independant definitely works in my favour.

That's why my advice to women is to always act 'cool' with men and sprinkle that with playful flirting.

I'm regards to sex you are probably right. Most men I've met like the fact I am sexually submissive.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19931 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

males can have all the wants they want, if they are asshole misogynists who want everything but wont give nothing in return ( the part of your post where it says males want nothing outside of bedroom) none of those wants will ever come true. it serves them right. no woman would tolerate that kind of behavior.

if he wanst sexual submissiveness, he can visit a local gay bar or have sex with a transperson. problem solved. he aint owed shit.

boo fcking hoo

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

transwomen would love to be seen as kinky sex slaves and expect nothing else in return.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 1993-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

doubt it

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure a GenderCritical regular really has her finger on the pulse of what transwomen want.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Look at their actions not words, they are now 'women' after all.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Whose actions? Whose words? On what are you basing your assertion? You believe transwomen are men, based on your use of quotes around "women". How have you interacted with transwomen, besides telling them to stay the hell out of your ladies' room, to give you such insight into what they truly want?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

if they are asshole misogynists who want everything but wont give nothing in return ( the part of your post where it says males want nothing outside of bedroom)

none of those wants will ever come true.

Never say never. There are asshole misogynists who want everything but give nothing in return, who are able to achieve exactly that.

There are also women who are able to successfully want everything and give nothing in return.

I think your perspective suffers from the just world fallacy.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

the OP is about males. you cant even stay on one topic. pitiful.

[–]whatyoucallaflip 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

Not as pitiful as your goddamn illiteracy

the OP is about males.

if they are asshole misogynists who want everything but wont give nothing in return ( the part of your post where it says males want nothing outside of bedroom)

none of those wants will ever come true.

On topic:

Never say never. There are asshole misogynists who want everything but give nothing in return, who are able to achieve exactly that.

Added because I know your rape addled brain will be thinking "males are women-exploiting poopyheads wahhhh whinewhinewhinemememe":

There are also women who are able to successfully want everything and give nothing in return.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 1993-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

im not reading this incoherent word-diarrhea of yours.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Tldr: you're as illiterate as you are hypocritical

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 1993-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

tl;dr: i dont give a fck

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

tl;dr: i dont give a fck

And yet you bothered to write it. Your borderline is showing again.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 19930 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

ofc im BPD, your limited male brain cannot come up with something else.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

limited male brain

Oh that's rich, you berate men all day because one guy raped you and I'm limited

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When you actually think about it though, men don't want submissive women.. Well they do.. but not in the normal way.

Why would you consider this is not the normal way if half the population has it? (and some of the women too)

Most men want women who are only submissive during sex. They want a woman who is easy to fuck,

Well, duh? Sex is a imperative for men, the second priority in most men's lives, right after survival, (some not even that).

and has NO demands outside of the bedroom.

Now you lost me.

If that was the case, with the current sexual market place, men with high sexual market value would have no interest in relationships, as you say yourself, our main goal is still sex.

But higher value men still have relationships and marriages, even those in the red pill, and not only accept demands out of the bedroom, but some prefer them. To feel like they are helping their loved ones.

You have a defective supposition here. Sex is by no means the only reason men want a woman, it is just the major one. Saying otherwise is being reductionist. Men want company, just not bad company. but they will accept bad company to have sex.

They want a woman who they don't have to take care of outside of the bedroom. They're not willing to support a woman. Submissiveness to them is purely sexual and is fetishised.

The only kind of women which men would not want to take care of outside of the bedroom are those women which you say yourself are bitchy, ugly, and demanding. The men which deal with them are doing it for the sex. No other reason. Many other factors are actually pushing him away from her. But his sexual drive makes him being stuck there.

Why would someone want to stay with such women outside of the value of sex? I would love to have a good woman to have sex frequently, but I would prefer someone which would make me want more than sex. In some environments is difficult, like the ones where lower value men live.

That is why the lower you go in the value ladder, the highest their preference for someone which is not a bother. Because they have to deal with nuisances of women just to achieve sex. A constant suffering for some seconds of pleasure. yeah it is a priority, but it is like working full time and hard, to receive not even the minimum wage. But you have no alternative.

This mentality is pushed as being 'feminist', but in reality it benefits men way more than it benefits women. It is labelled as 'respect' when a man dominates you in the bedroom, pressuring you to engage in kinky sex acts, but is actually a loser and a weak man in real life.

What in damnation you mean here? a weak man(i.e. a low value man) wanting to have a submissive woman and engaging into fetishes? Heh, of course he wants. All because of the above reason. he has to deal with women's bothersome nature all the time. It is a dream come true to have sexual satisfaction without losing resources. But unachievable in real life for most.

Sex unfortunately is a imperative, which most men have no option. Or they find a woman or they will be suffering. he is just fleeing from his suffering by sex drive. But it does not mean he would not do it if there was good reasons to have her outside of sex. I find some women to have way more value to me than sex, and I would normally make them GFs and such. But those are a rarity, and it would be impossible without TRP.

It should be known that when a man said he likes submissive women, usually he means he want a woman to never reject him sexually.

Normally, no, he wants a woman which would give herself to him, dominant and responsible. But to find such valuable partners are a almost impossible task.

It doesn't mean he is actually 'dominant' or 'responsible'.

He can be, are you valuable enough to make it worth the problems?

If a man tries to paint him sexually dominating you but not taking responsibility as 'respect', he is a dangerous man and should be avoided.

I would agree with this. Most women are not valuable enough to be worth making a good job, and even if they were, she would not be interested. Avoid dominance in general in a partner. It is a lose-lose game.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This old discussion here always comes back to what do you mean by being submissive? I've always felt that people likely have different definitions going on and are talking across each other.

It's a confusing topic. Especially so when I grew up somewhat unaware of men being dominant in interpersonal relationships. I was raised for the most part believing that adult relationships, sexual and otherwise, were about teamwork and fairness.

I had one LTR, who I lived with, who was an American feminist who told me she liked me cos I was dominant. I was just being myself at the time, unaware of what I was doing. Moving in with her was the biggest mistake, she wanted conflict all the time. I just wanted to have a fun life. Since then I've avoided people who play power games.

I think that it's best left alone as far as possible. If you're dating someone your intellectual equal, then there'll always be little power games but you'll know that they can only go so far before someone breaks.

So I'll stick with the idea that adult relationships are about teamwork.

[–]JustForPPDChemistry > All1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can have someone who is intellectually your equal, working as a team, be fair and have a dominant/submissive role division, which is present in many(all) human relationships.

I will give an example of my past relationships (last years). I made the calls for basically everything: What we do, where we go, what we buy, who are we, where are we going. I have always had the interests of both at heart. In that kind of situation it's very difficult for me to be selfish, because my decisions affect the other person as well. All these women trusted me and my decisions and respected me for carrying the burden of those decisions. It was fair and it was teamwork, but the burden of the responsibility of the decisions was on me.

It's no different from when I'm at work. I have climbed a lot because I'm not afraid of making decisions. If the decision is the incorrect one, then it's on me and I will have to deal with the consequences. But people are trusting of my knowledge, experience and skills, so that's why I have been making big decisions for years and, in the overall picture, it has paid out.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you kinda drtopped the ball on your wording of your topic.

By just saying 'men here' you are actually generalizing the entirety of male subscribers of this sub, whether they be red/blue/purple of black. Is that realyl what you mean, or where you thinking of a specific subset of men or ideology on this board.

If you stand by your choice of words I have no further questions.

[–]Five_DecadesKnows what women want. Knows he doesn't have it1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Anyone remember the red pill thread where some guy was upset that his wife wasn't willing to be more assertive with her doctor in dealing with her health problem? Hahaha. You picked her because you wanted someone passive and dependent.

[–]reluctantly_red3 points4 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

They're not willing to support a woman.

Why would they want to in the present climate. Supporting a woman today is a foolish move -- i.e. the return on investment sucks. For better or worse women today have to man up and support themselves. I don't think this is a bad thing BTW.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I think the point is you can’t only expect submisssiveness when it suits your own desires and goals but not in other respects. However I think this is a human thing, we all want certain traits when we want them and not when we don’t lol.

Although I will say I sort of fit what OP is describing, I like being submissive in the bedroom but NOT in other respects. I tend to think I’m not alone in that respect. It’s also a bit of a stretch (to me) to necessarily define submissiveness as requiring a need/desire to be taken care of, but maybe I’m not interpreting OP correctly.

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I kind of think while it's maybe not the majority, it is pretty common for well adjusted women to be submissive in romantic contexts and not so much in other more serious contexts

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is the wrong. It's the other way around.

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have never once dated a woman who didnt want to be submissive in any sexual/romantic context

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m not submissive in “romantic contexts” outside of sex.

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Hmm so like do you enjoy being the one who "takes the other out" so to speak on a date?

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean I’m married so that doesn’t really apply. I am not submissive in virtually any area of my life naturally except for the bedroom. I don’t like being told what to do and I don’t like following others unless it’s a specific relationship where I think it’s the best course of action (like a boss or mentor who has the experience). I don’t like people making decisions for me or without me if it affects me. I’m opinionated and vocal, I speak up when I want to.

I have had to basically temper my natural instincts a little bit to make my marriage work - my husband certainly isn’t submissive either - we both want our way. But we both try and compromise now to make it work.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

then they should admit they don't want a submissive woman, but a submissive kinky sex slave.

[–]reluctantly_red3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

You know where I can find one of those?

Seriously, its been my experience that woman like guys who are assertive. Its not so much about the woman being submissive its about the guy being more dominant than the woman -- even if the woman is pretty damn dominant herself.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

women do genuinely like men who are assertive, but men think this is about sex and sex only. They are bad partners and bad at sex.

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

WTF? Assertive guys get women -- thus, they are good at sex. Assertive guys are also successful -- thus, they are good partners.

That's reality -- not some BP fantasy.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

why is it that everytime someone disagrees with me they mention about me being BP? Like deep down you know I'm right but you're triggered.

[–]reluctantly_red3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not triggered at all. The more guys believe this the better it is for me.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You just said, "[Men] are bad partners and bad at sex". Not a particular type of men, not some (or even most) men. Men. Strongly implying all men.

You aren't right, and nobody is triggered. You made a terribly reductive and dismissive statement generalizing all men. We should maybe celebrate your misandry?

[–]peterlongcLove.Is.The.Drug0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

quantity is not quality

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

If a guy is getting quantity its because women recognize his quality. That the way this game works homie.

[–]peterlongcLove.Is.The.Drug0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

again, getting women in bed in large numbers says nothing about how you perform once you're there. in fact, i would wager there's a negative correlation at the high N values.

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

If it makes you feel better to believe that go right ahead.

[–]peterlongcLove.Is.The.Drug0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

when people have something great they try to hold on to it. (true across all domains)

if a man is an incredible sex partner then it quickly becomes too much of a hassle to multiply his partners because the women keep coming back for more. that's what i've seen in life. high variety is for those still seeking fulfillment, the sex does not satisfy and the search continues. or do you really think that high N people give it their all for every partner?

it's clear that you don't care about quality of sex in the least from your previous answers

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No I want actual submissiveness because I am responsible. And responsibly irresponsible I guess

[–]CrestfallenWolf3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I needed a good laugh thank you.

Feminism benefits men more then women... Oh what a good one.

You can blame men all you want. Feminism stripped the option of men taking responsibility away. "Real Men" would happily take responsibility for submissive "Real Women" if they could. But they can't do God bless sexual liberation, God bless MeToo, and God bless divorce rape.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

God bless your failed attempt at a response.

[–]CrestfallenWolf0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Your post was close to coherent, can't make gold out of shit. 😍

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Your post was close to coherent, can't make gold out of shit. 😍

did you mean incoherent? Try again

[–]CrestfallenWolf1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

An, you can't even read. No it was close, but not quite, coherent. Maybe you'll get it this time. Try reading it slow or I could rephrase it again for you. I'll keep trying as long as you need, we will get through this.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me.

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[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You are 100% right.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. I'm glad someone agrees with me lol.

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It should be known that when a man said he likes submissive women, usually he means he want a woman to never reject him sexually. It doesn't mean he is actually 'dominant' or 'responsible'.

And that's why so many of the men around here really like the idea of sex bots. They just want a female body that can never refuse their advances.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

touche

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

This is the sad sad ballad of the low value male. What I find most intriguing about it as it relates to PPD is these are the guys who will outright post "at" you that they speak for "men" as if we've never been in the presence of high value masculinity let alone with a man of quality. Despite acknowledging women are the higher standard having disqualifiers even. What do they have to contest the real life high expectations of these men who earn it by being high value in return? "Chad" fantasies masquerading as knowledge drop anecdotes? Laff.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

guys who will outright post "at" you that they speak for "men" as if we've never been in the presence of high value masculinity

I have had 18-year-old male Redditors who live with their parents straight up tell me that they know what 48-year-old Mr. Abrams values and is attracted to better than I do.

But GOD FORBID you ever weigh in on a female experience. "YOU ARE NOT ALL WOMEN YOU CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR YOURSELF"

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just had an angry virgin tell me "nice way to talk about your husband" because I called him "disgusting" (with quotes) in a sexual context that unsurprisingly went over his head. Our poor, sad, misunderstood husbands!

They're on a dv spree defending the honor of a man who may as well be an alien to them and it's great.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

If women here are going to reject AWALT then they can't on the same page speak for all women then. More so logically speaking its impossible for all women to have the same experience much like it is for men to have the same experience. As we all live different lives and such have different experiences.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I said female experience, not female nature or character or personality. There are vast acreages of common ground regarding women's lived experiences in the US, and, to a lesser degree, all over the world. So yeah, when some guy here tells me that he knows just as much if not more about the physical effects of pregnancy and childbirth, as has actually happened, it makes me roll my eyes.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I said female experience, not female nature or character or personality.

I know you did. AWALT incompasses women's experience least in how RP sees it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

That is a TRP thing, corrupted by Reddit, not a RP thing at all.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

And the difference of TRP and RP is what?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

TRP is the version of RP that has been corrupted by Reddit. For example:

RP: Women are the oldest teenager in the house. (Teenagers can vote, join the military, drive, buy cigarettes, be trusted with a variety of consequential tasks depending on the individual.)

TRP: Women are children. They cannot be trusted with finances, homebuying, anything of consequence.

u/Atlas_B_Shruggin can explain it better than I can. She participated in the pre-Reddit evolution of RP and the manosphere and watched guys like Rollo get their start as commenters on other people's blogs.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

From my understanding RP got started on reddit not before hand.

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is the sad sad ballad of the low value male.

Nicely put. So many beta guys here complain that women don't recognize their value. But guess what? If the marketplace doesn't recognize your value its because you're value isn't as high as you believe (true for both genders).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. It's pointless to get mad at, and the SMP is cruel by nature. Some will always find a way though!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

This is the sad sad ballad of the low value male.

No its the ballad of RP men. As not all RP men are low value (some least claimed to be programmers and such, ie they have good paying jobs), its more that RP men have traditionalist views and want to go back to an era when women where dependent on women.

Despite acknowledging women are the higher standard having disqualifiers even.

Women have a higher standard which has also priced themselves out of the dating market. As women are shooting for a pool of men that is in very short supply to say the least.

[–]OfSpock0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

an era when women where dependent on women.

men?

women are shooting for a pool of men that is in very short supply to say the least.

As are men, they like to think that settling earlier makes them morally superior.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

lol wut? Men don't think they are morally superior for settling earlier. Nor are men shooting for a smaller dating pool like women are. Men shoot for a bigger dating pool as they are able to bring less to the table if anything these days.

[–]OfSpock1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Read the OK Cupid study. Men go for the hottest girls more than women go for the hottest guys.

Then the guys on PPD are like 'men are happy to settle for their 6/10 looksmatch but women aren't. Women are so shallow.'

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

TIL online dating is like real life dating. And all men on PPD tout RP thinking.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I only said "low value" to not leave anyone out by labelling further tbh!

Some women do price themselves out, that's reality and I won't argue against it. The potential to get burned by our preferences doesn't mean we don't recognize the masculine traits we prefer or men we're attracted to. Yet we're never short helpful PPD types who will tell us our preferences as if that supersedes our entire dating lives. Because they are male men who just know everything about lady people attraction*

  • Everything except actually dating, marrying, and fucking guys we find attractive

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Your confusing men here for RP men.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nope, rp doesn't own the low value man market, I said what I meant.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your confusing low value men for RP men here.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

I can always tell when a man is a high quality man, and I'm sure other women can too.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yup. The problem is it doesn't jive with their need to see all women as piss poor at selection or shitty thots. Maybe I'm optimistic, but imo most people are average and up. The myth of the high value unicorn nobody ever encounters is the height of self soothing.

Just yesterday I had sparkling conversation with a lively PPD gentleman (who made sure I knew he was speaking for "men", natch) who accused me of "bullshit and double talk." I legitimately didn't see it. My husband took the day off yesterday so I had a little rl PPD experiment. Since this guy was talking for all men, maybe my husband could translate what I'm "too embarrassed" to get.

He read it and said "lol your problem is you don't think "undersexed angry dungeon master with an internet connection" when you think "men" and that's his only perspective so you're wasting your time." So much for speaking for "men" to learn a dumb hole womyn.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Everytime I say something from my perspective as a woman, I am called out for either being feminist, being bluepilled, of which I am neither

I have also been labelled as being not like most women, which is hilarious because these same men proclaim AWALT.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You take part in gendercritical, how are you not a feminist?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You don't know anything about me.

[–]reluctantly_red1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The myth of the high value unicorn nobody ever encounters is the height of self soothing.

Yes! People are flawed. You'll never find perfection. The best you can hope for is to find someone with flaws you can live with.

[–]OfSpock1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yet most of the people I know are way better than the ones red pill describes, both men and women.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

lol you should do this as a cmv

“Women can always tell when a man is a high quality man”

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I will do! I need to wait for 12 hours tho :(

[–]peterlongcLove.Is.The.Drug1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i was just about to comment about this. the results should be fascinating...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is just straight up shit posting.

[–]peterlongcLove.Is.The.Drug0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you believe that you can identify these men (without fail) even on anonymous internet forums?

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

They don't even want sexually submissive women, not really. They want eager, sexually undemanding women--"she'll wanna fuck me all the time, and give me blowjobs, but never want head herself". In fact, half the time, they seem to want very sexually *aggressive* women, just with no prior history who don't care about their own pleasure. How realistic.

I strongly suspect if you put them with a proper sub, in the BDSM sense, they' wouldn't know what to do with her.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Interesting, I do think you're right in the sense they want a very sexually forward woman.

As for the BDSM thing, I have read that a lot of men label themselves as beings doms because then the woman does as she is told and can't reject him sexually.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah...a lot of "doms" aren't even really kinky at all, they just think it's a sex-on-tap thing. Among people with a genuine interest in BDSM, not just a vague notion that this is where the sex is, subs are the most common, among men and women of all orientations.

(subs like this like to pretend that sub guys and domme ladies Don't Real, but they Do Real)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

subs are the most common, among men and women of all orientations.

Would say switches are.

[–]Texastentialismshe's got a tattoo and two pet snakes2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah this is a good point.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I strongly suspect if you put them with a proper sub, in the BDSM sense, they' wouldn't know what to do with her.

Its a lot of work

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I strongly suspect if you put them with a proper sub, in the BDSM sense, they' wouldn't know what to do with her.

They won't that's for sure.

[–]Gravel_RoadsJust a Pill6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Cant' CyV, cuz that does seem to be accurate. Most dudes say "submissive" but what they mean is "lets me have my way".

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep.

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Controversial opinion: I actually think most men are sexually submissive. They just are likely to never admit to it except under very trusting circumstances. Most guys who I know enjoy a girl taking the lead in the bedroom or even tying them up a bit. Theres a reason there is such a huge market for dominatrixs.

[–]MoodyBrizo 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

There are a lot of these men, but it's far from "most men".

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I will definitely say that the amount of sexually submissive men is higher than a lot would expect. My views are ancedotal of years of running in kink circles, so I'm willing to admit that I have a skewed view of things. But in those circles I know as many Male submissivesas female subs. And online it seems they are even more common.

[–]BirdManBrrrr0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think that exact dynamic plays out the higher status/higher achieving the man is...a la a CEO/polititian having the dominatrix, etc.

The opposite is prob true also: low status men want to act out their dominance sexually since they have little dominance/status elsewhere in life.

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a very complex question, with lots of fascinating answers. Sexual psychology is something I love to discuss and learn about. But the short answer is that there really is no one reason why people like what they do, and its heavily individual based. That being said, most humans do enjoy not being in control on some level. Its freeing in a way not to have to worry about being responsible.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Not "most"--I think most guys are pretty vanilla. But yes, outside explicitly kinky contexts, most guys probably will err on the side of a little submissive.

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I would agree that most people in general are vanilla. But even vanilla men enjoy like having the girl take charge a fair amount of the time.

Male sexuality is a complex thing, as there is a lot of repression to it. Just not in the way that the Manosphere thinks it is.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Agreed! Honestly, I feel really sad for how so many guys can't explore their sexuality in ways that would probably make them really happy. But it's... a very different thing from what the manosphere talks about.

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The manosphere idea of repression is that they can't have sex with people because those people dont want to have sex with them back.

The Male sexual repression I think of is that, aside from enjoying lots of shallow conventional sex with conventionally attractive women, men arent allowed to experiment. And that self repression creates A LOT of weird kinks and fetishes that they keep hidden. Hell, most men arent even allowed to enjoy anal stimulation despite the fact that that's where his g spot is.

I could honestly go on about this at length but I'll spare you that lol.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The Male sexual repression I think of is that, aside from enjoying lots of shallow conventional sex with conventionally attractive women, men arent allowed to experiment.

I completely agree. Most women who are curious about what it's like to kiss a girl, for example, can go and find a girl to kiss; bi-curious men face much, much more stigma. Ditto playing around with submission, roleplay, etc. etc. etc.

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The truth has been spoken.

[–]azngirl76892 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You read my mind. Thanks for posting this and taking the heat.

[–]Zippo-Cat1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I absolutely refuse to believe someone can be sexually submissive in the bedroom yet confident out of the bedroom.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pro dom women who have spanked CEOs and senators would disagree. The high-powered man who makes a living telling people what to do, then being completely submissive sexually, is a stereotype for a reason. Surely Mr. Grays exist in the real world, dominant around the clock, but they aren't the majority.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel in a BDSM sub reddit.

[–]ireadredpillonce0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I had a girl like this, very submissive sexually, into bdsm. Problem was she basically wanted to be a child outside of the bedroom and either do nothing or have someone order her to do everything. It was fun for a few months but it got old fast.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ve literally said myself I don’t need the girl to be submissive outside the bedroom. It’s a turn on sexually but I don’t need to be controlling her every move lol

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sexual submissiveness is hot (to an extent). Regular submissiveness is just annoying.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thread should be deleted seeing the OP isn't looking for a CMV.

[–]ICantQuitReddit2Purple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually I think most men are into submissive women because I'm one of the few dudes who doesn't like feminists but has no problem with the ''bitchy'' behavior. Even excluding feminism and the likes, dudes complaining about their wives which have always been around sometimes complain about shit I actually kinda like. Seems like they liked women in spite of those traits rather than because, even though I find it nice. Meanwhile sexually I think men just want women that give them a lot of sex regardless of submissiveness or dominance.

I would preferably actually like somewhat dominant woman. Though, they tend to just want men who are even more dominant than they are. And I definitely am not that.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah sometimes there’s an external conflict and you just want the woman to shut the fuck up and follow your lead until the conflict is over

Sometimes too much going on around you to reach a consensus or have a discussion. Or whatever. You just need action, motion, and someone has to lead and someone has to follow, it honestly doesn’t even matter who, but if one person prefers to lead generally they really should be the one to do it

[–]CRGRO0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is so grossly inconsistent I'm not sure I even understand what view you want us to change. Ultimately you never define submissiveness.

You introduce it with:

A lot of guys complain about feminists, and how women aren't feminine.

You then go on to say that they complain how women are overweight, bitchy, and expect too much.

Then conclude it with women are masculine and not submissive.

This in itself is 3 different premises surmised into a different conclusion

Men complain about feminism Men complain about women not being feminine Men complain about women's looks & personality

Women are masculine and not submissive.

First, feminism and an individual female's femininity are mutually exclusive Second, those traits don't necessarily coorelate to feminine or masculine. Third, just because someone isn't feminine, that doesn't mean they are masculine.

I'm not even going to break the rest down because frankly it's pointless without knowing what you're arguing about.

Can you reword and clarify some of these points so I can respond? I think it's a good exercise for everyone here.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd like partnership where you can rely on the other person.

It's too bad that modern women decided that was a bad thing (or perhaps more likely, they weren't smart enough to hide that it was a bad thing like their mothers and grandmothers were)

[–]Venicedreaming0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like how people are always making a list of what their future spouse must have, long list too. But rarely people stop and ask what the fuck do you offer in return. Honestly, if you’re not finding the right one the problem is simply your expectations are too high. It’s really simple and it applies to both genders. I have seen ugly women get with successful men. I have seen ugly men get with hot wife. I have seen poor men get with successful women. People just need to cool your tits and dicks and be humble for a second

[–]darksoldierkPurple Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know, I mean there have been a HUGE number of men who have given up their lives to protect women. Men today are forced to support women by the system because while women no longer wanted to be reliant on men for support, they also didn't like the idea of men not supporting them.

At the end of the day, They are already being forced to take care of women outside of the bedroom. Think about it for a second. Here's an example, do you think that maternity leave is free? The truth is, SOMEONE is making up for the woman who is on maternity leave. If that person is a woman, then she isn't actually paying anything because she will eventually take maternity leave herself and someone else will pick up her slack. However, as men don't get to take maternity leave (paternity and parental leave is often shared, and is neither as long as nor as protected as maternity leave), therefore, it's men who are paying for women's maternity leave.

Who pays the majority of alimony and child support? There is reasearch that shows that after accounting for the cost of women, men end up paying more in taxes than women.

At the end of the day, men are being forced to support women outside of the bedroom, so they are demanding the benefits of that be requiring women who are sexually submissive.

If you, as a woman, don't like this idea, then starting standing on your own two feet and accepting responsibilities for your choices and your actions, much like men are expected and forced to.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Which should work perfectly well for women since there are truckloads of those who want to be submissive but oooonly in the bedroom.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So? Everybody knows that what is sexually attractive is different from what is romantically attractive. The trick is to balance these things.

[–]superioritycompl3xMGTOW Extremist-1 points0 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

The tradcon life where men lead and women look up to men is dead. Feminism killed it. Having no fathers in the home killed it. The death of the middle class and shift into a feminine economy based on service, education and health rather than industry killed it. The lack of regular, meaningful warfare killed it.

Marriage 1.0 is over, pal. Lol what the fuck are you going to do, go move to an island someplace and start humanity all over again? In 100 years or so there won't even be "men" and "women" anymore, SJW cunts will have succeeded and we'll all be running around pretending to be furries or trannies or queers or demisexuals or whatever the fuck newfangled concept the universities are rolling out with this month.

[–]GridReXXit be like that6 points7 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

But men complained about getting black lung and getting cancer in the coal mines of industry yore and stuff. And the whole being cannon fodder and dying in war and stuff.

But unironically, war did help. It reduced the male dating pool to up the demand and make the men who survived appear better.

But you could make the same argument that in chaotic third world countries men have the upper hand because it’s about surviving primally and throwing your weight around. I’m not convinced 21st century western men even want that. “Yes I’ll trade dental hygiene and clean water for disease and vermin and constant fear of being attacked by another man, but ha! I can coerce a woman to fuck me in exchange for soap or a lift across the river.”

Actually this happens in poor parts of US too.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Actually this happens in poor parts of US too.

People underestimate how fucked it is here.

[–]GridReXXit be like that4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah as I was writing the reply I had to say to myself nah this happens in the US too. The US has all of the ills of developing nations. It’s just balanced by all of the pros a developed nation brings to the table.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Just don't be born in flint mi

[–]GridReXXit be like that3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Or a lot of places.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Should have just said dont be born poor.

[–]GridReXXit be like that1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yep that part.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nope, you can be poor; you just have to be selective as to location! Our here in the countryside, it's quiet and safe -- you don't even have to lock your doors. You can heat with wood and grow a lot of your own food (we do). Totally different than trying to live in some high-crime ghetto run by Democrats.

[–]superioritycompl3xMGTOW Extremist-2 points-1 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

But men complained about getting black lung and getting cancer in the coal mines of industry yore and stuff. And the whole being cannon fodder and dying in war and stuff.

Some fag commie/socialist intellectuals who went to universities and wrote a lot started complaining about it, yes. These elite pencil necked few bequeathed to history the mistaken impression that the male gender didn't embrace war or hard labor, or at the very least see it as their rightful duty.

If you want real mens perspective on the hardships of the 20th century don't read Steinbeck or Dickens, read Melville or Hemingway.

[–]philomexaSUNFUCKER7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If you want real mens perspective on the hardships of the 20th century don't read Steinbeck or Dickens, read Melville or Hemingway.

LO fucking L.

[–]superioritycompl3xMGTOW Extremist-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You laugh but i bet you have a melt down every time you break a nail or the barista tells you they're out of soy milk.

[–]philomexaSUNFUCKER4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

My nails look like shit and I don't drink coffee. Try again.

[–]GridReXXit be like that2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just broke a nail of my freshly done SNS manicure while sipping an Americano and I still had to L O L.

[–]GridReXXit be like that5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Hemingway only glorified it because he didn’t have to live it. He’s the equivalent of privileged kids signing up for a cute Fyre Festival refugee experience and then having the luxury to return to a semblance of civility and high society.

I’ll trust Steinbeck’s experiences more even though he too had access to a bourgeoisie mindset despite experiencing limited financial funds at times.

[–]philomexaSUNFUCKER7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Hemingway only glorified it because he didn’t have to live it.

Seriously, homeboy's entire oeuvre can be described as drag masculinity.

I've never seem someone try so hard to disavow his poofty rich boy roots.

[–]GridReXXit be like that4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely performative drag.

Though I won’t bust his balls too much since at heart, he was an artist. Performance and theatrics kept him.

But yes his favorite monologue was “rugged true man.”

[–]philomexaSUNFUCKER3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

true true, just sick to death of the cultural fellating of this GrEaT AmErIcAn NoVeLiSt.

caveat, I have a BA in English and lived in Hemingway's hometown for a few years, a few blocks from his family homestead. I'm so over it, and him. lol.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Being from northern Michigan, I <3 his Nick Adams stories, though.

[–]superioritycompl3xMGTOW Extremist-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Doesnt matter. Trump is a billionaire but understands the anti pc zeitgeist of embittered proletarian men and embodies it. Gandhi was a rich lawyer but wore the simple dress of a peasant. The kid who wrote the “red badge of courage” never saw combat but got accolades for the authenticity of his writing from civil war veterans.

Accusing someone of not living their ouvre is shallow criticism as it completely avoids addressing the actual content and impact of that work. Whatever, tu quoque and ad homs are fast becoming the only “debate” tactics used in the hellish wasteland of social media, so its to be expected

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hemingway only glorified it because he didn’t have to live it.

World's biggest poser!

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Its possible to be masculine without being self-destructive.

You also don't have to check your man card at the dean's office. I have three degrees but I also spent over a decade on construction sites and oil fields.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Jesus said: “it is easier for the camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a man to be masculine but not self destructive”

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol what the fuck are you going to do, go move to an island someplace

Or a farm. Lots of opportunities for men to be men and women to be women on a farm.

As the oldtimers say, "Never have more cows than your wife can milk."

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hopefully another hundo after that the ai overlords exterminate us.

[–]MGTOWtoday-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Very much true. Just because I enjoy a certain kind of role play in the bedroom doesn’t mean I want to be in a relationship with an incompetent child.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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