CMV: Women need to start approaching or stop complaining, and here's why

KeffirLime · 2019-02-04T15:57:15+00:00

There IS an abundance of assholes

Men compete, women select. The men who compete successfully are usually the ones more likely doing the successful approaching, what this means is they can also get multiple women in the same manner, meaning it's very unlikely they're going to be bending over backwards to please just one women. What this is also means is he'll probably be labeled an asshole by her because he didn't do so.

made it abundantly clear that they don't like being approached;

They don't like being approached by men they don't find attractive, which is most of the male population.

why so many women complain about only meeting jerks

It's because they're going for the same guy that all the other girls are going for meaning she wont be the only one, meaning she wont be receiving the princess treatment.

The guys you want to date are the ones who are being made hesitant.

These are the timid beta males who are weary of approaching for the very reason that they are aware they don't compete successfully. A woman doesn't want a low value man, she's not attracted to low value males.

it may be time to play the active role.

Ultimately woman want the high value man, but the high value man has options, so is never going to treat her as well as she wishes him to. If they played the active role it would simply be to try and obtain more high value men not "nice" low value males. The guy who idolizes her does so because he's gripping at what he can get, by it's very nature it signals to her biology that he is low value. It's paradoxical, but it's human nature.

passepar2t · 2019-02-04T14:34:33+00:00

If you're timid enough that shaming convinces you to stop approaching, then the filter is working as intended.

Mr_Smoogs · 2019-02-04T14:22:28+00:00

Women do approach. They just don't approach you.

That's probably the best takeaway from TRP. Back when I visited the sub, I said the same shit only for it to be thrown back in my face. Women do ask for nudes, they just don't ask for your nudes.

Women can't be blamed for their pickiness and are not going to change their ways, as it would require a change of their nature. Women particularly enjoy how charismatic men who confidently approach and lead conversations make them feel. That's not going to just go away by women approaching men. When women "approach" they just walk up to you and say "hi" and throw the ball back in your court - similar to Bumble.

So if you want a successful love life, it may be time to play the active role.

In theory I agree with you. If only women would be active instead of reactive, their success would increase. That's just math. But in practice, a "successful love life" is a charismatic man who confidently approaches and leads the conversation.

Electra_Cute · 2019-02-04T14:27:25+00:00

The reason why so many women complain about only meeting jerks, is that jerks don't respond to shaming

Or maybe being a "jerk" to someone is rude and that is why they respond to it.

I can not really argue about what you are saying, because it is almost nothing. I am going to ask how you know everything you are writing in here.

Uncommon_Sensed_1234 · 2019-02-04T14:30:59+00:00

Women who want the decent guy get him. Women who want the converted bad boy "Chad" make cmoments about only attracting jerks.

Your mistake Is not understanding what women really mean when they make this complaint.

Littleknownfacts · 2019-02-04T14:44:36+00:00

What makes you think women wouldn't approach assholes and complain anyway?

we-are-men-with-ven · 2019-02-04T15:15:06+00:00

I don't know anything about "approaching" but women do initiate conversations with men they find attractive when it is convenient and "acceptable" for them to do so. It just happens more naturally and isn't some forced weird PUA thing where the dude goes out with the sole intention of hitting on girls which is just bound to reek of desperation.

planejane · 2019-02-04T14:19:01+00:00

That will never happen in a million years. They can't handle rejection already.

quasirealikecreature · 2019-02-04T14:48:02+00:00

If I was into a dude I've asked him out. I think it's common enough based on friends.

ScootsScoots · 2019-02-04T15:17:24+00:00

Your first mistake is listening to women complain about what they do to themselves.

Your second mistake is believing them.

Again, they say one thing then do the exact opposite. I guarantee the very same girl who complains about only finding jerks is all over Mr. Sixpack's tinder messages right now.

Our operating system for sexual attraction is still the same as it was 200,000 years ago. Men know exactly what women are attracted to; the ones who dont get laid simply dont want to admit it.

These supposed jerks that you obviously dont like simply act on instinct while you sit in the corner with your beer-shield held to your chest overthinking things.

I see no reason why a man cant be the whole package. You can be smart and socially adept. You can be strong and have a career. It's not like your boss is gonna fire you if you develop a six pack and learn to approach women.

I find that the word "jerk" often just means "guy who gets the girl I want" or "guy who makes my pussy wet but wont commit."

sublimemongrel · 2019-02-04T14:58:21+00:00

Women do approach it just may not look exactly like you see men doing it, typically speaking.

I’m also not sure the women complaining are speaking about guys bothering them in public, they probably don’t get very far to begin with.

sadomasochrist · 2019-02-04T15:27:51+00:00

The mistake you make is listening to women.

They're not looking for a solution, just venting. They prefer these men, which is why they date them.

we-are-men-with-ven · 2019-02-04T15:14:47+00:00

Depends what you mean by approaching. Do you mean cold approaching? Because generally that doesn't work.

In my experience a 'can I have your number/ take you for a drink' happens after I've been engaged in a conversation with the bloke for a while. It also helps when they have a relaxed demeanor.

PuleaSpataru69 · 2019-02-04T16:58:02+00:00

As above so below. When the egg starts chasing the sperm, that's when I'll go after men.

Going after men and being sexually agressive is masculine.

Almondxxx · 2019-02-04T20:17:06+00:00

I approached my SO.

So..

mc0079 · 2019-02-04T14:23:58+00:00

Respectable guys don't approach? What world you living in.

CainPrice · 2019-02-04T14:59:39+00:00

Disagree.

Yes, there is an abundance of assholes women meet, but it's not because women aren't approaching guys. It's because women prefer good-looking guys, and guys who are good-looking can be more selfish and still get women. It doesn't matter who approaches who. If we look only at guys a woman is actually attracted to, these will generally be better-looking guys, so the proportion of assholes to non-assholes is higher than if you were to look at the asshole proportion for all guys on earth. The idea that there are these great, non-asshole men that girls would meet, if only they'd be more assertive and talk to them is false. Women already approach guys they're interested in.
Men are not shamed for approaching women. This is 1,000,000% an internet manosphere myth. I guess if you're extremely sensitive and unmanly, the very fact that a woman says no counts as "shaming" in your world. But it's a rare day when a woman is a total bitch to a guy who approached, and if she is, that's barely embarrassing at all. You just walk away. This high school notion that the entire bar is going to grow silent and look at you, then burst out laughing at your failed attempt to talk to a woman and you will be completely ashamed is silly. You talk to a girl, she either talks back in a way that indicates interest, responds with short one-word disinterested remarks until you go away, or blows you off, then you move on. Most of the time, if a girl is bitchy and blows you off, it's because you're socially retarded and didn't recognize her disinterested body language and one-word retorts and kept bothering her.
Normal guys are not "hesitant" about "bothering" a girl in public. This is something socially awkward guys on the internet complain about, but out in public, plenty of normal guys walk up and talk to women all the time. Some are hot, some are average looking, some are loud boisterous asses, some are more normal. The difference between guys who walk up to girls and guys who don't isn't whether the guy is a jerk or not, or whether the guy is "respectful" or not. Plenty of respectful guys approach. It's whether the guy is socially awkward or not. Socially awkward guys are afraid to approach. Kind of like #1 above with regard to good-looking guys, guys who are socially apt and fun people can afford to be more selfish with girls than guys who suck socially. So the proportion of jerks to regular guys for socially awesome men may be higher than the proportion for all men on earth.

In short, women already approach interesting men. And normal men already approach women with no irrational internet manosphere fear of "shaming". If women aren't approaching you, it's because you're not hot or interesting. And if you're not approaching women, it's because you're fearful and socially awkward, not because you're so full of "respect" for them.

praisethesun799 · 2019-02-04T15:27:04+00:00

Wot? Women approach all the time, not to the same extent as men , but in what world do you live where is doesn't happen? Unless you're super shy or something

flamingoinghome · 2019-02-04T14:36:08+00:00

What about women who do approach? But the only guys who respond positively to their advances....are jerks?

Do1t4AlexBowman · 2019-02-04T16:35:50+00:00

Women are mentally children and expect men to do all the work. Giving women responsibilities is their kryptonite.

jintana · 2019-02-04T18:26:41+00:00

Suspend your belief in the friend zone.

RadChadswell · 2019-02-04T23:35:42+00:00

I think what's more impactful is that modern women have made it abundantly clear that they don't like being approached

No they haven't. Many love it. They just don't want to be approached persistently by guys they don't want, especially ones with poor social calibration.

The guys you want to date are the ones who are being made hesitant. You want a guy who's respectful, but nowadays a respectful guy isn't going to be comfortable approaching you on most occasions.

False. You've divided guys into 2 types. Let's divide them into 3 instead: jerks who don't respond to shaming, guys who are respectful but cowardly and easily made hesitant, and respectful guys who are brave and confident but not jerks.

Your argument is predicated on the fallacy that only the first 2 types of guys exist and that women want the second type.

That's not true. Women actually want the third type. Those women want respect, but they also don't want cowardly wimps. The third type isn't scared by shaming either. They adapt to make sure they aren't violating new norms of harassment, but they don't get hesitant either.

Due to a crisis in the millenial generation of "lost boys", there's a depressing shortage of the third type of men like never before in history.

Spoiler: these women already are approaching us. They're just get rejected, so they get stuck choosing between "nice guy" cowards and jerks, complaining about the lack of good men.

Female_urinary_maze · 2019-02-05T03:28:54+00:00

There is some truth to this especially since there was never any good reason for us not to go start conversations with men we find attractive. It's what I do.

But let's be clear about one thing. All good policies about "approaching" consist of only doing so in social situations. NOBODY should be hassling people they find attractive on the street on the way to work. It's not appropriate for men to do and it wouldn't be appropriate for women to start doing either.

Whisper · 2019-02-06T09:48:01+00:00

Women don't "need" to do anything. They can continue being passive and complaining about not getting what they want. That will work just as well as it always did.

What you need to do to improve your life is stop taking what women say seriously.

Aaren_Augustine · 2019-02-04T14:19:35+00:00

Jesus Christ, is it so hard to believe. How many times you want someone ringing your fucking doorbell selling you stupid shit you never wanted to begin with.

Now here you are, trying to shame women for you trying to sell shit they don't want. Women won't start approaching and if they did, it' would be to buy your stupid shit because that's not what they want.

The reason why so many women complain about only meeting jerks, is that jerks don't respond to shaming.

They fuck those dudes...so maybe you are seeing a trend here? You can't negotiate desire. Maybe you see this? What you think she's going to subscribe to your magazine so you can go on a trip to Europe?

You want a guy who's respectful, but nowadays a respectful guy isn't going to be comfortable approaching you on most occasions.

THEY WANT FUCKABLE DUDES FIRST. They want fuckable first and foremost. Fuckable fuck bois that will give them commitment.

Get the fuck off PPD and do your TRP sidebar homework, you lazy ass. At least keep this to askTRP so they can clown you all while you still don't do your homework.

blackedoutfast · 2019-02-04T15:33:04+00:00

women aren't going to change. you have approach anxiety. all this mental masturbation about how women should totes be the ones who approach "respectful gentlemen" like yourself is a complete waste of time and energy that would be better utilized to grow a pair and start facing your fear like a man

we-are-men-with-ven · 2019-02-04T15:39:00+00:00

How easy do you want sex and dating to be?

kandyapplez · 2019-02-04T14:53:36+00:00

approaching men wouldn't solve the problems women complain about unless that problem is "i havent been used as a fuckhole by guys passively taking a girl offering herself to them"

the intersection of guys who believe that "men are shamed for approaching women" and guys who women find desirable is tiny if not nonexistent.

if desirable guys aren't approaching a girl its because they're not interested, not because he's waiting on her to make a move.

WhiteningMcClean · 2019-02-04T22:04:05+00:00

Men don't really respect women that they don't have to work for though. So if you're chasing after a guy, it makes him not want to be with you. If a woman is in the position of having to prove herself to a man, she's already lost.

Tedesche · 2019-02-04T16:13:36+00:00

Men are shamed for approaching women.

Mrm, sort of. Really, they’re shamed for either approaching poorly or their approach not being desired. Men are expected to read women’s minds perfectly in this regard; if they approach the wrong woman, that woman will be annoyed, because rejecting someone is awkward, and we taught women that they aren’t responsible for courtship. When women are the passive selectors and men the active performers, obviously women will complain that men aren’t performing well enough for them and men will complain that women choose the “wrong” guy, because they weren’t picked. Because we see men as being the active participants in courtship and not women, men are the ones who get shamed, because they’re the only ones perceived to have agency.

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Do1t4AlexBowman · 2019-02-04T16:48:40+00:00

Women are mentally children and expect men to do all the work. Giving women responsibilities is their kryptonite.

statusincorporated · 2019-02-04T16:52:54+00:00

There IS an abundance of assholes when you look at the guys women meet on a day to day basis.

Not really.

A quarter of the time the complaint is valid. The rest of the time it's a simple case of someone shooting outside of their league and wondering why the object of their affection isn't particularly enamored with them, which != 'asshole.'

I think what's more impactful is that modern women have made it abundantly clear that they don't like being approached; it's a hassle for them.

Not really.

Women like being approached at the proper times and places or by men who understand how to approach in various social situations, i.e. how you approach a woman in a nightclub is not the same as how you approach a woman in a mall, etc. etc.

Most men don't understand how or when to approach.

But it's a more fundamental thing than that....

...women (and men) shame men for weakness. There are no points for second place. Either you win the prize or you are a pathetic fucking loser who should kill yourself (slight hyperbole). You seem to understand this, because....

The reason why so many women complain about only meeting jerks, is that jerks don't respond to shaming. They don't care if they interrupt your girls night out or bother you on the way to work.

Indeed.

So-called 'jerks' (or assertive good guys as well) don't let shaming stop them. They continue approaching and mixing it up until eventually, they get good at approaching. Not only do they get good at it, but they get good enough to apparently break a lot of rules and get away with them.

A good approach involves an innocuous way to (1) gauge a woman's initial attraction to you and (2) if she is attracted, to interact with her in a way that allows her to express that attraction in a plausibly deniable way.

The guys you want to date are the ones who are being made hesitant. You want a guy who's respectful, but nowadays a respectful guy isn't going to be comfortable approaching you on most occasions. He's worried he'll just be bothering you, because that's what he's been told.

Buzz!

The person you described sounds like a pussy.

You can be respectful and approach women.

And NO approach is comfortable.

That's the entire point.

Go check your male gender norm cheat sheet --- stoic/graceful under pressure/courageous.

i.e. a REAL man GOES AFTER WHAT HE WANTS --- fuck comfort.

You think women want to date some loser who bows to social pressure to the point of denying himself what he wants?

Think again, junior.

poppy_blu · 2019-02-05T01:05:14+00:00

I think what's more impactful is that modern women have made it abundantly clear that they don't like being approached; it's a hassle for them.

It’s always been a hassle. It’s just more socially acceptable now to tell someone to fuck off for any reason. Most women are not doing this though. They’re politely telling him they’re not interested or ignoring him.

Sad_Virgin_Beta_Male · 2019-02-05T06:52:03+00:00

Cope. Ugly males are shamed and humiliated when they approach, good looking males are never rejected. The problem is: women only want good looking dudes, so those have way more foods than they can fuck, and can treat them like shirt with no real consequences, while ugly males never had a chance. "Only jerks approach me" = "I only want Chad but Chad has tons of girls like me and treat me like I'm disposable and that's annoying"

Yonderlander · 2019-02-05T07:29:02+00:00

3rd option- meet women through friends, activities or websites

lbspredh · 2019-02-05T08:14:01+00:00

Let's be real women need to stop complaining, and men do too, seriously it's annoying don't do it.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2019-02-05T18:01:15+00:00

women have been clear about what makes a male a hassle. they do tell what guys should / shouldnt do, it is not a secret. yet cursed males turn a deaf ear and up their victim complex to the max. whatever. males will never take responsibility for themselves.

TheReformist94 · 2019-02-06T11:19:06+00:00

I wasn't picking a fight. So don't start a fight with your ad hominems

goatismycopilot · 2019-02-04T14:45:20+00:00

Not happening .

we-are-men-with-ven · 2019-02-04T15:10:39+00:00

Have you heard of bumble? It's a dating app where the women can only message the guy first. We do approach men, all the time.

Manck0 · 2019-02-04T14:21:43+00:00

I hate to say it ladies but this guy's got it right. You can't tell everybody to leave you alone because there are assholes out there and then complain that nobody's coming up to you and handing you the keys to the castle. You either accept that there are assholes and treat everybody nice until they give you a reason not to or, excuse my French, shut the fuck up.

2stoned0jaguar9tre · 2019-02-04T14:22:37+00:00

I rather just travel abroad than deal with these difficult ans demanding monsters.

FreeMRausch · 2019-02-04T15:53:36+00:00

I can see how our feminist influenced culture can make guys feel that approaching a woman can be very problematic. The Me Too hysteria and how simple flirting and persistence can lead to a guy earning the reputation of a "creep" deserving of being called a sexual predator is a definite thing. The whole attitude guys must take the first no, no matter what, from more combative minded western women who don't want to settle down, instead of being persistent and breaking past the shit tests is a definite thing.

Reason I say this is I married a lovely woman from Russia who I met in the US at school who came from a culture where a dude being very direct in how he wants a woman is not viewed as creepy at all. When I first met her and her foreign friend at the bar, I brought them both chocolate, bought both of them drinks, and made it very clear that I wanted to date her. While she was a bit hesitant at first, the fact I was very nice and made it clear that I wanted her in a relationship, and also seemed to impress her friend, led to a great relationship. Women from the non western world respond better to serious minded guys and seen to be less stand offish towards men in terms of not being blinded by the Me Too stuff.

I have never had a serious relationship with a western women but had others with women not from the US before my wife and there is a definite thing there. Same tactics used on western empowered independent me too and feminist influenced women never worked where as Russian women and women from Korea, etc loved it.

shonenhikada · 2019-02-04T17:36:16+00:00

Dating game now is simple. If you aren't Chad Thundercock or high value male, do not approach women. Women find 80% of men below average in looks and don't want you unless they are looking for a provider male (aka male financial slave).

It's like how tinder evolved over into bumble for hookup apps with women having to message the men to start anything.

Understand the world and society and how it operates.

throwaway-637 · 2019-02-04T18:38:13+00:00

Women don't approach because women want to be desired.

Cissnowflake · 2019-02-04T18:41:38+00:00

It’s the same with all the societal shaming of men in general for “bad behavior.”

The men who would never do that shit are successfully shamed, while the jerks who don’t care, and who DO do all that “bad behavior,” couldn’t care less.

TheHatim · 2019-02-04T21:35:36+00:00

Women approach, more than you would imagine.

They just don't approach you, that's why you think they don't.

ChadThundagaCock · 2019-02-04T22:02:53+00:00

i get approached by women all the time.

the only exceptions are the street and the grocery store, where everybody is on the move.

bars, clubs, and especially women at work, often start conversations with me, while showing positive body language (playing with their hair, maintaining eye contact, closing the distance between us).

[deleted] · 2019-02-04T14:56:30+00:00

Dude women absolutely approach, they do it all the time. They don’t approach you. It might surprise you, but if a woman is actually attracted to you, she will hit on you, carry the conversation, and pursue you. She will make it so easy for you that all you have to do is just say “my place or yours?” They absolutely want to have hot men approach them in a coffee shop, or at the store, or at work, or on the subway; they just don’t want you to do it if you’re not one of the hot guys.

I thought like you too, until it actually happened to where a woman was interested in me and heavily pursued me. It made me realize that women do approach and go after guys all the time, just not me. I thought it could just be a fluke, but then it happened a few more times with women that weren’t anything like each other, they came from different backgrounds, different races, cultures, even mental states, and they acted the same. If you’re not getting hit on, or getting any approaches, then that means you’re not attractive enough and you should self improve until you are. You might meet a woman who is so attracted to you once a year, and even then she’ll probably be someone you are not attracted to.

mrp_awakening · 2019-02-04T15:40:48+00:00

Men are shamed for approaching women.

It's called a shit test, and you failed. That's the whole point... filter out weak guys. Congratulations on being a weak guy.

LUClEN · 2019-02-04T17:42:58+00:00

Both men and women would be better served making it known when they want to be approached and giving their targets opportunities to act

[deleted] · 2019-02-04T18:58:59+00:00

OP, while I disagree with your conclusion that women should approach or stop complaining (because women are just following their biology both in being passive and complaining, and good luck changing that), your assessment of the situation is spot-on.

I treat others how I want to be treated. When I'm hunting for the newest box of salad, or calculating how much weight is on the barbell, I don't want to be interrupted. In fact, my fantasy grocery shopping and gym experiences are buildings so empty you'd think the rapture took place.

Resetting the social rules in my brain from Golden Rule to IDGAF is a switch not easily flipped.

ArrantPariah · 2019-02-04T21:12:35+00:00

Women will approach you, if they think that you are gay.

BigMarvelChickenman · 2019-02-04T22:45:43+00:00

Never going to happen! Women and girls don't need to approach. The guys will come to them! They just have to choose which guy they like and shoot their shot. They sometimes try to small chat with guys, but at the end of the day, she has to be the one who waits for the guy to say yes or no!