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DiscussionSex without connection = a need being met. Connection without sex = frustration (self.PurplePillDebate)

submitted by hajimenothrowaway

I ultimately desire to connect sexually with women I also connect with mentally and emotionally, but, for me, sex is not the most important thing; it is a priority.


[–]Ladyofblades25 points26 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sex is one of the top priorities for me in a relationship. That and physical contact are how I ground my intimacy, so it's not just a man thing. It keeps the relationship from flying apart if we somehow get out of sync emotionally, which does happen.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It keeps the relationship from flying apart if we somehow get out of sync emotionally, which does happen.

Great mindset.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is exactly how I feel. I can be with someone and stay attracted due to emotion, but emotion comes and goes. There's a woman I love and care for, but she wanes between waiting for marriage and wanting sex. She also gained a good bit of wait since we first started being together, so I can he attracted, but it is not an always consistent thing.

[–]The_Frag_Man18 points19 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I don't find sex without an emotional connection with my partner to be enjoyable or something desirable at all.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

one of my friends use to say this until she had great sex with a casual hook-up. the difference was he was attentive to her needs in the bedroom. She'd never experienced that outside a committed or close relationship.

It always makes me curious when I hear this sentiment about a person's experience with casual sex.

[–]statusincorporated6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I think a lot of men are full of shit when they say that they're into sex without emotion.

​

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A lot of men think sex is just one way of masturbating with another person's body until they orgasm.

[–]statusincorporated1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really...

[–]25russianbear253 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You also think starving people are full of shit when theyre into cheap hot dogs when they only get to eat once a year instead of only dining 5 star meals??

Cheap hot dogs are better than nothing when youre starving. You will never understand until youre in that position.

[–]statusincorporated3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, but you're not really arguing with me then.

You're just saying that 'starving people will eat anything.'

Maybe...

doesn't mean that they wouldn't prefer eating food that tastes good if they had a choice.

​

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Best attitude to have tbh.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

For me as a woman they are not typically separate like that. I don’t really want sex without a “connection.” And the “connection” makes sex a lot better.

I’m not really sure whether that is what you wanted to discuss or debate, but that’s how it is for me.

[–]tickledpic5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The thing is guys think connection means something extraordinary, while it doesn't. All it means is that (at least) two people connect with each other.

It can be few minute situations that make that connection. For example sparkly looks in a party that lead to 10 min convo. If the right kind of connection has been made, sex can happen.

It doesn't have to be this profound emotionally deep journey that makes the connection. It can be as simple as making each other horny.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you're on to something here. Women need to clarify what "connection" means.

Is it...

  • Deep relationship feelings

OR

  • "gets on well enough with them"

??

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I tend to be one of those guys. I don't have experience with meeting a woman, making each other horny, and having sex with her that same day/night. For me, I am too concerned with health, and not in the moment enough for that kind of thing. At least not yet.

Because I dont have that experience, I fear someone else having that effect on a woman I may care about, influencing her to cheat on me.

Really, the realization I had about what you're talking about is why I am going through a personal journey and is also part of why I embrace a lot of redpill ideology.

The idea that connection is built overtime influences men to invest in women, while a connection can be made without investment and sex can be got out of it. The novelty of it and lack of pressure that comes with commitment causes many women to feel it was their best sex.

That's very threatening to an introverted, logical, mostly monogamy-oriented guy like myself.

So, I stopped giving off the energy and the impression that I want to be with a woman on the assertion that she has not been with many other people. But I guess I also don't give the impression, nor do I want a relationship at all right now, so it's hard to tell how much of my non-attachment is really dealing with ego and how much of it is just detaching emotions because I don't care about the women in the sense that I want a future with them.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I definitely know women who are. I'd say that many women can be more sexually compartmentalized than men, which is why women usually buy sex toys while men buy sex workers. Women who have had great sex (not all) usually desire sex for sex sake and can take out emotions more than men. I usually don't need to take out emotions from sex. It just is what it is. But I don't do it just for the feeling. There is the ego boost and the closeness.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay, You are a man, whatabout it?

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (31 children) | Copy Link

You know how I can tell all yo my TRPers are either virgins or get laid VERY infrequently? You prioritize sex so much. People who actually get laid don’t care about sex or talk about sex or prioritize sex nearly as much as you guys do.

[–]couldbemage8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That's really weird, because in my experience, people who are really into sex and have lots of it can't stop talking about sex. We go to sex related events. Chat about sex stuff while out to eat with like minded friends. Really, my social circle is pretty much entirely kinky sex people.

[–]statusincorporated4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

IMO a lot of those people aren't into sex, they're into attention/validation.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's really weird, because in my experience, people who are really into sex and have lots of it can't stop talking about sex. We go to sex related events. Chat about sex stuff while out to eat with like minded friends.

Are you me?

Really, my social circle is pretty much entirely kinky sex people.

I guess not :(

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your experience is your experience. It might describe people who are into kink.

I had a relationship in which lots of sex was had and in which I was really into the sex (more than him, I think) but I didn't talk about it or go to 'sex events'.

[–]tnais0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the difference is you were having lots of sex with just one person, which is pretty normal for a lot of people in traditional monogamous relationships. It’d be different if you were having lots of sex with lots of different partners

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that’s a little different from what I mean. Sex as a hobby isn’t the same as sex for validation.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Pill Man12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What you are experiencing is red pill men actually saying what they want. The other men think the same way, they dont Express it because it might cost them sex.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What? I want sex too, probably just as much as you, maybe more. I have quite a high sex drive, and me and my gf have sex 2-3 times a day when we see each other.

The difference is that I still also care about other things, and am totally fine watching a movie or doing something else instead of sex because I don’t need the “I can have sex if I want to “ validation that you guys seem to need.

[–]toronto87 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes people who are never hungry are unconcerned about hunger. You're saying it like it's some kind of gotcha zinger.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Statements of facts aren’t “gotcha zingers” just because men feel guilty and indicted by it.

You’re reading way more into it than there is.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm neither, but I guess it depends on how you measure infrequently.

I was in a long term, long distance rationship for 4 years and I do not believe in cheating.

Right now, I am sleeping with two women. That's not a lot, at all.I don't like the idea of sleeping with many women to be honest with you.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And your point? Obviously if a person is thinking about it frequently it means they want it, but cannot get it in the frequency they want.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

People who actually get laid don’t care about sex or talk about sex or prioritize sex nearly as much as you guys do.

Errr, depends how much you love to talk about sex. Sex is great. the frequency I get it doesn't affect how much I like talking about it

[–]iamprosciuttoAll about that purp2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I have a reasonable amount of sex with my girlfriend, and it's still incredibly important to me. I talk about it with her very often. Early on in the relationship, I explained that I have a pretty intense libido. I love my girlfriend, but it would be absolutely unacceptable if we stopped having sex.

Just because YOU think that way, it doesn't mean everyone does.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Then why do you feel the need to talk about sex with your girlfriend very often if you guys already apparently have a reasonable amount of sex?

[–]iamprosciuttoAll about that purp0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

because it was relevant to my point

I need it frequently. I get it frequently. It's still important to me even though I am having sex with her enough to stay satisfied. I don't get what's hard to get here.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Lol. Snarky words for someone that clearly didn’t read.

I said, why do you feel the need to still talk about it very often to your girlfriend. Not to us in this thread. Read the words in front of you. It’s plain English.

Jesus.

[–]iamprosciuttoAll about that purp0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't recall saying that I do. Perhaps take your own advice?

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is a direct quote from your statements:

I talk about it with her often.

Or are you going to lie that you said this when the evidence is literally just right there?

[–]iamprosciuttoAll about that purp0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

oh okay. I actually forgot |I wrote that. I'm clearly much less invested in this discussion than you are. Yes, we do talk about it often. I ask her how I can make it better for her and how she liked whatever I did the last time. I compliment her on her skills in bed because she is much less experienced than I am, and confidence is 90% of being good in bed.I honestly don't have any more explanation other than sex is important to me, and I like to make sure it's not just me having a good time. I don't understand why you're so upset about this.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I asked you a question about something you clearly said and you tried to pretend that you didn’t say it. Then when I showed evidence that you did, you conveniently “forgot” and tried to turn it around on me.

No idea how in any of that, you apparently gathered that I was upset, but I’m just going to chuck it up to the misplaced sense of importance that you have about the things you say or your presence on this sub.

People that constantly need reassurance about how well they’re doing in bed are typically insecure about their performances. From my interaction with you here, this does not surprise me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Sex is very important in a relationship, and it’s important enough that breaking up over it is totally justified.

I’m more referring the high school teenage boy mindset of sex obsession.

[–]iamprosciuttoAll about that purp0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I never said I was obsessed with it. It's more like those people who naturally have a high metabolism, so they need to eat more. It's important to me in a relationship. If I recall correctly, the girl I had briefly dated just prior suddenly explained after 3 dates and a ton of me watching her play WoW (like 3 good 5 hour sessions or so) that she wasn't interested in sex because she might have gender dysphoria. It was an odd experience, so I just wanted to make sure everyone knew what was going to be involved in my current relationship.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sex is so much more complicated than that. What if she’s lost her attraction to him? Should she be forced to have sex with him even if he’s not the same guy she first started dating? What if you were dating a chick, and after 2 years she suddenly put on 200 lbs? Are you still obliged to fuck her?

[–]iamprosciuttoAll about that purp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, no. I believe that maintaining health is a part of a relationship. Gaining 200 pounds, especially over the course of only 2 years, is extremely unhealthy. I have gained weight in my current relationship. So has my girlfriend. We have talked about it a little bit, and we both agree that we should both be more active. I wouldn't sit and stew on the fact that my SO is gaining weight. In my opinion, nothing should be a taboo subject in a relationship. Honesty, openness, and straightforwardness are the keys to being happy with someone. No games, no lies, no passive-aggression. Romantic relationships are transactional in nature. Both people need to feel like they're getting a good deal here. If someone works their ass off to maintain themselves and their relationship while the other person just lazes around and doesn't participate, there's going to be some building resentment unless that was what both people agreed upon. You should want to build yourself up for your partner so that they can lean on you. You shouldn't want to lean on your partner.

If you don't at least like the person you are with, there's no reason to stay.

[–]tnais0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That generalization is a bit of a stretch IMO

I’m reluctant to describe myself as red pill, but I slept with 4 different women in November from online dating because I have a high sex drive and vastly prefer sex to masturbation. If I didn’t prioritize sex, I wouldn’t have as much sex because it wouldn’t be a priority.

Personally, most of my friends don’t talk about sex because they’re embarrassed about it and/or they have lower sex drives. Though I have a couple of friends who are naturally good with women (they’re tall, dark, and handsome; they could be professional models if they wished)— they constantly talk about getting pussy and I see them messing around with attractive women all the time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nah dude. Liking sex is fine. Attempting to have sex with somebody you’re attracted to is totally normal. Sex being your primary priority in life over any other goals is not normal.

[–]tnais0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree that it’s not normal but I don’t see anything wrong with it. I feel unhappy if I’m having sex inconsistently. I’m always working on multiple goals at once— I go to the gym 5 times per week, monitor my diet daily, and work on my business every day. If I’m having sex 3 times a week I don’t need to prioritize online dating and can put more effort into other areas of my life. But if suddenly one of the women I’m dating quits seeing me, then I need to prioritize online dating again until I’ve replaced her so I can go back to having consistent sex. It’s completely abnormal, but it’s deeply satisfying to me and makes me very happy/content

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So much this lol

[–]statusincorporated0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You prioritize sex so much. People who actually get laid don’t care about sex or talk about sex or prioritize sex nearly as much as you guys do.

So much win, here.

If you're getting laid regularly, esp casually, by women you think are hot, sex really starts taking a backseat to other areas of your life.

[–]GradualDecomp4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

In the context of a romantic relationship, sex is the priority for me. It's the most reliable indicator and communication method in a happy relationship.

That said, I've enjoyed "meaningless" sex plenty of times before. Sometimes you just need to get it in.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this. Sex is a priority for me because I see it both as the barometer of a relationship, and it validates time spent. If I have sex, I don't feel like I wasted my time, even if I am not really interested in the girls

Whetger it is to connect or to boost my ego, and either way, it's for pleasure, sex is always one of my priorities .

[–]wtffellification4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sex without connection can more so be a symptom of frustration, rather than a cause for frustration

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree. I only have sex without connection when I do not trust the person. That asnt the point, hut I agree.

[–]wtffellification0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't really get your points, but I guess I've made my own, so that's what matters

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Just fap lmao

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't cut it. If I develop a sexual desire or expectation, masturbation doesn't curb my sexual desire.

[–]toronto87 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes let them eat cake

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't get it.

[–]statusincorporated1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Empirically false.

Friendship/esteem/emotional connection meets a human need.

You could argue that under Maslow, sex is a more basic human need, but that's not the OP.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I usually am able to curb and minimize my emotional needs unless they are being aroused. When my emotions are being stirred up in a positive way by a woman I desire to have sex with, I begin to feel comfortable and I begin to long for her. Like they say, hope deffered makes the heart grow sick.

Perhaps, my emotional and sexual needs are tied together and when I am really open with one, the other follows behind it.

[–]TriadFamilyTimesEverything I know I learned from group sex1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sex without connection doesn't meet any needs I have that masturbation can't. Even casual sex can have a casual connection. Connection without sex in a romantic context is absolutely frustration to me though and I don't stay in relationships without a high degree of sexual compatibility.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's how I feel to a tee. I would say that orgasms for me feel much better when I don't control them, so blowjobs beat masturbation every day of the year.

[–]oftheinfinite 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sex without emotional connection is very enjoyable for me. At the same time, sex with emotional connection is also enjoyable. However, I prefer sex without emotional connection.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting perspective. Why?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

To me, connection doesn’t have to be romantic. It could be more like friendship. I find it pretty easy to care about and connect with people, and as a result I haven’t had sex with anyone I haven’t felt something of a connection with.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree. I really feel more comfortable in genuine friends with benefits situations than even relationships and dating. To me, I feel that friendship is much closer to unconditional love.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree 100% with this. Relationships seem so shallow and conditional, but with friendships, you can really be yourself and be loved. I stopped dating when I broke up with my high school bf willingly, I just don’t enjoy traditional romantic relationships. Friends with benefits situations are so fulfilling.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m in the same boat. Part of me also wonders if the lack of jealousy and ego is really more so because of the lack of investment towards the future. Like, if I wanted a long term relationship, I may be more judgmental for functionality reasons. But, generally speaking, I feel more comfy in FWB situations. I’m in a couple right now. I will say the lack of accountability for consistency is a plus and a minus tbh, but at least, especially for a guy, you know they actually want to fuck and aren’t asexual, trying to trick you into a relationship.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Most women do not view sex as a need so it's kind of hard to empathize here.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I know women who definitely do. The women who do get much more horny than most men. But you said most.

Flip it then, emotional connection and validation is to stereotypical women what sex is to men

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I used to be one of those women but sex is just kind of trash lol. Every single time I've had sex, masturbation would have been better. I do agree with you that emotional connection is to women what sex is to men.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's one thing that is a little threatening about women, to me. Probably every time I have had sex the orgasm tends to be stronger than if I masturbate. It just feels better with someone and especially when someone else controls it.

This may sound irrational, but that kind of thing makes me not feel comfortable with and want to trust women. It makes me want to find something to hold back from women so that I am not all in and still not up to par in some way or another.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do know of women with different experiences though. I do think what you said is the most common, though. I know one women along those lines who feels probably physically best when she masturbates but that there is no substitute for sex.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I personally have had my strongest orgasms from blowjobs. Probably all of my top 5-10, but I left someone because we weren't consistently having PIV. I wanted that connection and oral wasn't enough for me.

[–]MisterJose1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This has been my experience as well. I wish I had known that would be my experience, but I made the mistake of buying into the idea of the superior value of platonic connection. And as you say, it's just frustrating. I didn't just want to sit there in our respective seats watching the movie of the night, I wanted her laying against me. I wanted to be able to kiss her on the cheek, and mess around with wandering hands. I say 'her', but there were several 'hers' that this happened with.

OTOH, just having fun sexy times with someone? Never any regrets about it. Good memories.

[–]slavicgypsygirl1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I only like dating so sex without mental & emotional connections is less pressure on me

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've noticed that a lot about women. I think women can compartmentalize sex better than men.

[–]Naebany1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. Sex is more important than romance. But romance + sex is perfect.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

To me, it is not more important, but just foundational. I can enjoy the feeling of sex without romance, but I can't enjoy romance without sex.

[–]Naebany1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I get what you're saying. It's just so foundamental that when it's missing then everything else seems meaningless. When the night seemed fun and then she doesn't want to have sex it seems like the whole time she wasn't really having fun like I thought she had. Sure there might be cases when she's really sick or have some valid reason but if that happenes too often it's very discouraging.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is exactly how I feel. Nothing matters if sex isn't on the table. Every good thing about that day turns to sour grapes in my mouth. Why get me so emotionally turned on, to then not accept my body inside of you? It's very frustrating.

[–]TheBookOfSeilAn ounce of Snu Snu is worth a pound of cure3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Sex is not the most important thing; it is a priority.

Uhhhh..........

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

X is not [comparative], it is [superlative]

Of that, you'll do whatever you want

[–]TheBookOfSeilAn ounce of Snu Snu is worth a pound of cure1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

To me, it basically says “Sex is not the most important thing; It is the most important thing.”

[–]JustRuss79RedPurple Man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A priority, not The priority

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Basically, an emotional connection is very important, but it doesn't work well with me as an indepent variable.

What I desire most is a sexual relationship with an emotional connection, but either way I want sex.

[–]bitter_samsara 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

What are we're supposed to discuss?

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Importance vs priority of sex and why it is what it is for you.

[–]nemma8831/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Congrats!

[–]kandyapplezincel larping as a thot0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

i feel the same way. when i'm single, i pretty much just wanna get laid. i wouldn't call it a priority though since it still happens pretty easily for me. i just do it whenever i get the urge.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am single and still want a connection. I am trying to learn to get into sex for the sake of sex.

I am usually that way about oral, but not with PIV.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Perfect example of male solipsism.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

😂😂😂😂😂

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Case in point.

[–]matrixpush0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, it's a biological drive...even the BP guys who pretend to like feminism are hoping that translates into something.

[–]LoathsomeThrowAll Blackpill Everything0 points1 point  (36 children) | Copy Link

So you're largely aromantic outside of sexual relationships. Or would asocial be a better word?

I'm sorry to hear, hope that works out for you.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 6 points7 points  (35 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, romance feels like foreplay to me. Shit, even just enjoying myself with a woman I am sexually interested In feels like foreplay when I feel that sex is likely. Sex is the climax. A constant build up without a climax for a man is very frustrating. I get emotional blue balls and it is almost physically painful. Then, I end up detaching emotionally.

Masturbation doesn’t cut it for this one. The pain persists until I either disconnect emotionally, or have sex with her.

If I am open without that connection for too long, I’lll even lose attraction for the woman.

Let’s say I have a great day with a woman I have had sex with and really enjoyed her company. If I am emotionally open to her and that night doesn’t end with sex, all the cute moments of that day turn to sour grapes.

I’d rather not have house feelings stirred up in the first place and have or not have sex.

But nothing is better than those feelings being stirred up, then having sex.

I mostly require oral to get an erection before sex, which is not an issue, but when ai feel this way about a woman, just a hug or to smell her scent or to see her after a long day makes me rock hard.

[–]ArcticFoxBunny6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I wonder if this is the experience behind all guys who complain about the friend zone.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It is exactly this. It's not that guys only care about sex, it is that connection without sex is painful.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That’s the same way that women feel but with regards to sex without the connection. It feels cheap and worthless.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This may be an accurate description for some. It flips it. I only have sex without connection when sex with connection is not available or when I don't trust. That connection and want my ego stroked.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The same reason women have and develop connections without sex.

The connection is what’s most important and most satisfying to them. For most women, the sex is usually secondary.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's not that guys only care about sex, it is that connection without sex is painful.

How are they ever able to have guy friends?

I don't buy it. It's that they feel entitled to women's bodies and that's what is painful - when they don't get what they expect.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do feel that there is somewhat of a barrier in the depth of friendship with men because I don't want to sleep with them.

And a few points.

To be entitlement is to feel inherently deserving. To deserve women's bodies is to see them as a prize. It implies that it must be worked or paid for. That puts women on a pedastal, which dehumanizes. You're making women sound like whores. But if I did follow that logic, you would still be wrong because if a man invests time, resources, and emotions in a woman, he is purchasing her; therefore, he can't be entitled. He paid for it.

To think that a woman should be invested in by a man's time, resources, and emotions is truly entitled.

This is not my point, though.

It is painful for most humans to desire anything and not get it or to expect and not receive. Hope deferred makes the heart grow sick.

In my experience, when I spend time with a woman, talking to her, it feels like foreplay. As I get closer to her, I begin to feel comfortable and admire her and want to show my appreciation of her by exposing myself to her and her exposing her self to me while naked. To me, there really aren't many greater ways of saying "I accept you" than this. You cab tell people til you're blue in the face that they are beautiful, but it means more when they can see you are aroused.

To not have sex with someone I accept, feels like the connection was not real or like rejection or like it was time that I enjoyed, but could have better invested in someone who wanted to express it physically.

No gift or words or mssturbation or anything can substitute sex for me. Everything that would make me like her more would only frustrate me more because I am unable to express my feelings for her in the way I desire to. It is to feel silenced.

I'll gladly walk away from that.

A truly etbtiled man would see the body, and take it.

There is a difference even between working/paying for sex (transactionally) and desiring a mutuality of desires.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think this is actually the best explanation of it.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.4 points5 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

It sounds like you’re describing sexual tension.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but it’s unrequited sexual tension. Essentially he’s interested in her sexually, she is not.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Idk it’s hard to tell, just because you don’t have sex that night does not mean it’s unrequited

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

In my experience, any time a woman was or is interested in me (and it’s uncommon enough to where I can really notice difference) she makes it quite apparent. My current gf kissed me on our first date even though she was super nervous to do so. If she wanted to fuck him, she would’ve at least made him aware of it.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Um ok that’s not how it works necessarily. Sexual tension can absolutely build and typically there’s a pattern of flirting which can be an indication of romantic interest.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

And I’m telling you in my experience, that isn’t how it has happened for me. It’s all been pretty uniform in terms of their advances of me.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Great, I’m telling you it isn’t always that immediate. Like I said flirting can also indicate interest it doesn’t have to be overt sexual acts from the very beginning to build sexual tension.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Great. I’m telling you that it is always immediate for me if it’s gonna happen at all. I have found that women either make their advances known, or it’s never gonna happen. I used to think it could build over time, until I actually had women interested in me (even in just a relationship sense) and they made it so overt that it made me realize having women interested in me was so uncommon that the signs are easy to see. Again, either it happens immediately, or it doesn’t happen at all.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Um ok that’s not how it works necessarily. Sexual tension can absolutely build and typically there’s a pattern of flirting which can be an indication of romantic interest.

Quoted for truth.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm no good with those patterns. Lol

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not good with social cues. The women I deal with are pretty honest and blunt when they want sex, which is probably one of the only reasons I have sex tbh.

I don't like sexual tension because of the let downs. I get sex usually through blunt conversations and s little flirting until it happens.

I usually don't start with flirting and lead into sex.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The funny thing is that when I REALLY want sex, women who ask me for sex turn me down. And my sex drive/desire/expectation I'd really high on special occasions. It feels like a must to make the occasion memorable. So, I like to plan things out.

And there were instances with women where I took time to determine my intentions or maybe told them close to upfront and then found out they had a boyfriend. I was fine being a friend while they had a bf. But when they became single, they pressed into me emotionally, knowing that J wanted to sleep with them, and I tried to be considerate of their break ups. And tried to hold my tongue for a while.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

It's a little.more complicated than that. Two of the greatest instances have been women I was in sexual relationships with.

One had religious hang ups that would cause her to go through cycles of being available and unavailable sexually, usually without a warning. It got to the point where jw as so afraid of her feeling pressured without me knowing that I quit initiating sex (really it was mostly oral throughout the relationship.)

She'd be obsessed with the oral, but had a lot for self control with PIV and shot me down for a whole because of religious reasons. I didn't think that was the only reason, though.

My sex expectation and desire is very high on special occasions and I think she put pressure on herself that turned her off.

Another girl was kind of like a cat and kind of selfish sexually. She would contact me for sex out of the blue, but when I really wanted her, it would never be "convenient" for her.

This included a birthday meeting we were preplanning and I set up money for a couple of times recently. This is after she was telling me how horny she was and wanted to have sex with me.

I think some of it is when I really desire sex, it feels like a need, and women interpret that as desperate and get turned off. But when I don't care, they pretty flog me down for sex.

Just the other night, the first girl had her birthday. The night before, she sucked me off for her birthday (of course, I returned the favor, but going down on me turns her on the most).

The next night I tried to initiate and she shut me down. I didn't care though. The next night she said she wanted sex and when I was getting undressed, I told her to stand up twice and take charge and she didn't listen, so I put my clothes back on and sag next to her. She was upset. I didn't care.

20 minutes later, she all but forced herself on me and don't even let me finish her with oral because she wanted me inside.

I have instances of women I didn't sleep with two, but these are women I did.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I’m not really sure what your issue is then?

Also to your comment before, this isn’t the friend zone. You are at least getting some attention and still getting sexual related times. You’re like a person who is middle class saying “gee, now I know what people in poverty feel like”. If you’re not getting the sex you want then you need to find other women or switch up your approach. If your approach works on many other women and not these, then just move on.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It is good to have what you want when you have it need it the most. I get sex when I am indifferent towards it, honestly.

And the first woman, I broke up with after nearly. a year of no PIV after I said I wanted to start back having it. I didn't want her to do it without talkibn to me and she snuck it on me knowing i would disapprove because she didn't agree, so then I was having sex but already emotionally closed off.

And when my feelings are stirred up for one person, masturbating and even having sex with someone else doesn't appease it.

I have had instances with women who I didn't sleep with too. I have always avoided the friend zone like the plague but I have felt the pain. I would just burn those bridges and that was because it hurt.

It's gotten me to the point where I don't really even leave the house to spend time with women unless I have pre-consent for sex these days.

If I am villanized for building a connection and friendship then wanting sex, then I night as well say it all upfront and see where it gets me. It's not as romantic or exciting, but it keeps my chest from tightening up.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don’t know what to tell you man. I guess keep making your intentions known upfront, if they’re down, cool. If not, then just walk away and go to the next one.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I desire Botha greater experience and capacity for connection through sex, and a greater and experience to perform sexuality without the need for emotional connection.

What I have been doing hasn't really helped me as much with either as I'd like so I have been changing it up some.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I dotn quite get what you're saying but I think I usually appreciate your comments.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Poetic way to put it.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you! & I am a poet.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I have been feeling similar lately, I think that the problem is that if I’m not satiated sexually than I dislike romance because it’s like I’m hurting myself. I pull back on the romance trigger(I try to only be responsive to her and ignore my own needs, which can look like I’m ignoring her) so I can let the woman lead during her low libido periods, which can quickly make me question the entire relationship if she fails to do so

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've been there. I left the relationship. I need to feel desired insjde of her vagina. Oral sex didn't even cut it and I could get it whenever I wanted.

[–]CombatStaceyBlue ovaries1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A constant build up without a climax for a man is very frustrating. I get emotional blue balls and it is almost physically painful. Then, I end up detaching emotionally.

It is the same for women. A build up without orgasm feels physically painful. All the blood has congregated and everything is swollen - and if orgasm doesn't happen, then it all aches and hurts. (It's not exactly the same, because we don't have a build-up of sperm, but we do have a tremendous build-up of blood and internal swelling.)

I haven't been in a sexless relationship, but a woman who is in one (in which her partner doesn't desire sex and she does) would end up detaching emotionally.

[–]hajimenothrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is weird because I know of a good bit of straight women who have sex with men for validation moreso than sexual pleasure, which may be a factor in the orgasm gap.

There are genuinely some women who'd feel.more satsifed being pounded by a guy who she sees as high value until she is incapacitated, without orgasm, than to be given an orgasm through oral sex by an average guy.

It just feels more dominating. I personally like to give orgasms, though, but for some reason when women get really into me during sex, they seem to not care and after I am done, they are done - even if I want to go another round. It is like my orgasm gave her validation, the closeness met an emotional need, my size made her feel stretched and full, and the orgasm just no longer felt as important.

I agree with your comment. I am just sharing an observation.

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[–]_Neon_Shadow_4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok?

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Another in the long line of low effort shit posts seeking cheap upvotes from complacent RP yes men.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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