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i am including the whole article for people who do not have access to NYT. Betsy Devos and the Trump administration are about to significantly curtail the campus rape trial issue the obama admin exacerbated. this has almost always been about ATHLETES (aka largely black students) and never about STEM betas as is weirdly asserted here. the rape hysteria may have had a CHILLING effect on Betas, but it was not GOING AFTER them

Discuss:

  1. the article

  2. do yuou favor betsy devos reforms?

  3. what will be the effect of raising the standard from preponderance of the evidence to clear and convincing on the rape hysteria on campus

is our long dark night of the soul at its inevitable end?

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos’s proposed regulations overhauling how colleges handle sexual assault, which may become law in January, are far from perfect. But there is a big reason to support them: I’m a feminist and a Democrat, and as a lawyer I have seen the troubling racial dynamics at play under the current Title IX system and the lack of due process for the accused. Ms. DeVos’s proposals take important steps to fix these problems.

Consider this scenario: A young black man enrolls at a state university in California on an athletic scholarship. He’s the first person in his family to go to college. His teammate’s white ex-girlfriend matches with him on Tinder, comes to his apartment, has sex with him and, they both agree, returns three days later to have consensual sex.

Weeks later, the young woman, who has reconciled with her boyfriend, claims the Tinder match raped her during the first sexual encounter. The Tinder Match adamantly denies this. Her boyfriend, who is also black, says she is lying. There is no hearing, no chance for the accused to ask her questions.

But the Title IX investigator concludes that he committed sexual assault by finding her more credible than him under the preponderance-of-the-evidence standard, under which the accuser must prove there is a greater than 50 percent chance her claim is true. He’s one of a few black students on campus and worries he may get killed after word spreads.

This happened in early 2018 to a client in the pro bono clinic I direct with my law students. We represent low-income students of color in California who face expulsion based on allegations of sexual assault.

We see what the Harvard Law School professor Janet Halley described in a 2015 law review article: “The general social disadvantage that black men continue to carry in our culture can make it easier for everyone in the adjudicative process to put the blame on them.” That’s why the DeVos regulations are a step forward.

Here is how they would work. Cross-examination would be conducted by an adviser for the accused (not, as some coverage has erroneously said, by the accused.) The accuser may sit in a separate room or participate via videoconference. The right to cross-examine goes both ways: The accused must also answer questions posed by the accuser’s adviser.

The changes would also do away with the problematic “single investigator system” where the person who interviews the witnesses and gathers the facts also serves as the judge and jury — a method the California State University System uses for its 485,000 students across 23 campuses.

The revisions are in line with court decisions that have characterized the current system as unfair. In August, the Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit, ruling in a case from Michigan, declared that if a public university adjudicates what is essentially a “he said, she said” case, “the university must give the accused student or his agent an opportunity to cross-examine the accuser and adverse witnesses in the presence of a neutral fact-finder.” This year, two California appellate courts have overturned university decisions to suspend students for committing sexual assault because their procedures were so lacking in basic due process.

Meanwhile, my client has been barred from campus for more than nine months. (His suspension was based on this allegation and a second allegation by another accuser, which was found to be unsubstantiated by the evidence; that accuser is appealing.) The DeVos regulations and the two California appellate rulings are most likely his only hope of avoiding an expulsion that would tar him as a campus sex offender and most likely prevent him from getting into another school.

The current system of adjudicating sexual assault complaints is broken. Under the rules set up by the Obama administration, hundreds of colleges, including many in California, were placed under federal investigation and threatened with the loss of funding for failing to adequately investigate sexual assault complaints. The definition of what constituted an assault was vastly expanded. Nonpunitive resolutions such as mediation were forbidden, even if that is what both sides wanted.

The Obama rules were written to address a real problem: a tendency by colleges to sweep sexual assault allegations under the rug. But it also gave risk-averse schools incentives to expel the accused without any reliable fact-finding process.

The Office of Civil Rights does not collect data on race in Title IX cases, but the little we know is disturbing: An analysis of assault accusations at Colgate, for example, found that while only 4.2 percent of the college’s students were black in the 2012-13 school year, 50 percent of the sexual-violation accusations reported to the school were against black students, and blacks made up 40 percent of the students who went through the formal disciplinary process.

We have long over-sexualized, over-criminalized and disproportionately punished black men. It should come as no surprise that, in a setting in which protections for the accused are greatly diminished, this shameful legacy persists.

“I’ve assisted multiple men of color, a Dreamer, a homeless man and two trans students,” Professor Halley told me. “How can the left care about these people when the frame is mass incarceration, immigration or trans-positivity and actively reject fairness protections for them under Title IX?”

We can fix this. The DeVos reforms are in their public comment period, which gives people on all sides of this debate a chance to weigh in. That is a good thing. I know my allies on the left will criticize my position, but we cannot allow our political divisions to blind us to the fact that we are taking away students’ ability to get an education without a semblance of due process. What kind of lesson is that?


[–]PeafowlPennywe'll all float on okay21 points22 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

This was obvious.

[–]sailorlycia 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

To some of us. The number of people on here who unironically believe that only unattractive nobodies are getting accused of assault is astounding. You know, the "Chad can get away with anything" crowd.

[–]PeafowlPennywe'll all float on okay17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If Chad's from some rich white family he can get away with more than most people can.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Affluenza is one hell of a disease, I'll give you that.

[–]lucky_beast5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What the fuck are you talking about?

Chad can get away with anything. Tyrone can't.

It seems pretty obvious.

Have you never even once read the history of lynching in the United States?

[–]sailorlycia 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Have you never even once read the history of lynching in the United States?

Considering the fact that I'm black, live in the U.S., and have talked to relatives who were literally alive during the Jim Crow era, yes, yes I have. A black man could be lynched with little to no proof but a white woman's word. 30 witnesses could testify that a black woman was raped by a white man he could pay a little fine and be done with it. I'm pretty sure that's how it went.

Chad can get away with anything, Tyrone doesn't

According to the stats up there someone besides Tyrone has to be being accused of assault. It's 50%, not 100. You think the other 50% is those sad little omegas we keep hearing about? And the 60% whose cases actually go through the disciplinary process are...

[–]The3liGator0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Brock Turner?

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here16 points17 points  (65 children) | Copy Link

Interesting how it took an appeal to emotions towards a minority group for people to support due process.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card-1 points0 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

How you got that out of what she wrote 🤦‍♀️

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here10 points11 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

From the NYT article, not atlas. It seems obvious to me that the easiest way to sell the idea to roll back title ix was to appeal to the left’s sympathy for blacks.

[–]wekacuckstupid buggy bot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The problems with Title IX under Obama and the reforms proposed by the ABA were actually being talked about and discussed very seriously and positively on NPR when Hillary was running from just purely a justice perspective (i.e without this racial angle)... until Trump was elected and he appointed DeVos and then it was a complete 180 to defend Obama's Title IX from any and all criticism with nothing more than name-dropping "DeVos" and "Trump" constituting an argument. From the moment DeVos was nominated the story was she would throw out all the Obama advances... and then she announced she was seriously considering adopting the ABA recommendations and so those were recast as throwing out the Obama advances completely ignoring that the sane ABA recommendations were being praised prior to Hillary losing the election. It was very off-putting and I stopped listening to NPR for months. When DeVos announced tgat she was looking into adopting the ABA proposals the NYTimes did the same thing... condemning the ABA recommendations with the same "DeVos" and "Trump" arguments.

Anyway all this to say it wasn't a social justice argument previously.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy Link

Trump is not tying to appeal to the left. This is an administration level decision. They don’t need to sell anyone on anything. That’s how it works.

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here11 points12 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Lol what are you even saying. Not talking about trump. Talking about the article’s authors support of Devos. He sold his support for Devos’ policy by appealing to a minority group.

How are you not following?

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

Devos is a Trump appointee. She has full authority to change dept of education policy as it pleases her and her boss. As has every cabinet member who came before her.

Spend a little less time on Reddit and use it to take a government 101 class.

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here12 points13 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I am speaking of the NYT article’s author, not trump nor Devos. For the author to support Devos, he had to appeal to emotions with sympathy to a minority group.

What don’t you understand about this?

In other words, the only way the NYT would publish an article that supports devos’ policy in this way would be an appeal to sympathy for minorities.

Do you understand?

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card-1 points0 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

That makes even less sense.

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here10 points11 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

What do you object to?

The only mainstream publication to lend support to devos’ policy has done it through an appeal to sympathy for a minority. I don’t consider that coincidental.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don’t object to anything. Just observing as usual you have to resort to dog whistling and making a completely irrelevant point to get anyone to pay any attention to you.

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

So the victims are still victims but now the attackers are victims, too!

Only in LiberalLand, lol.

[–]Aeiexgjhyoun_IIIPurple Pill Man5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It makes perfect sense. The writer being a leftist will probably be shunned by her friends for her support of Betsy, so she tries to justify it by saying the new law if passed will help minorities.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mmkay

[–]czerdec0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Trump is not tying to appeal to the left

I think he is, to an extent. He's the most left-wing GOP candidate in decades, based on his refusal to cut social security. By making the feminists look like they're hurting blacks, he's certainly hoping to sow dissension between the black community and the feminist movement, which are currently part of the same political coalition.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He's no longer a candidate, he's the actual president.

Which presidents have cut social security? Specifically?

dissension between the black community and the feminist movement

This made me LOL.

What country are you from, btw?

[–]czerdec0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The point is that he's the only significant candidate for GOP nomination in the last several decades to comprehensively rule out cutting SS. Bush tried very hard to privatize SS, which would have led to massive cuts when the great recession struck, had he succeeded. We were very few votes away from seeing it happen.

If you disagree that the black community and the feminist movement are heavily in line with the Democratic coalition, I don't know what to say to you, the evidence is overwhelming that these groups are heavily opposed to the right. The fact that it's the men who are vastly less likely to be in lockstep suggests to me that the feminist movement is already hurting the Democrats among black men. Reintroducing a rule that disproportionately destroys the education of black men is something that will probably hurt the Democrats more, as GOP agitators will make heavy use of new cases of probably-innocent black men having their education and thus career chances ruined.

[–]YetAnotherCommenterPurple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think he is, to an extent. He's the most left-wing GOP candidate in decades, based on his refusal to cut social security.

Not to mention he won the election through appealling to a traditionally Democratic constituency (Rust Belt working class), he's to the left of the standard Republican position on international economics, campaigned on a less hawkish platform than Hillary, he hasn't rolled back anything on gay rights, and he's quite clearly not an evangelical or particularly devout (I'd wager he's a closet atheist).

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] -2 points-1 points  (41 children) | Copy Link

there was never any lack of due process in campus hearings, if anythign due process was overprotected. no one was being deprived or life liberty or property by the governemnt without a minimal due process hearing. the burden of proof standard was a judgement call

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here5 points6 points  (40 children) | Copy Link

If the burden of proof standard is lowered to preponderance, then due process is lacking when speaking of criminal complaints like rape, no?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 4 points5 points  (39 children) | Copy Link

these are not criminal courts, this is not happening in criminal courts, no criminal charges are being tried and no criminal punishments are being meted out. these are campus disciplinary hearings that are required to provide minimal due process if they occur in STATE schools, because government. the "Rape" or "Sexual assault" beign tried is as defined by campus disciplinary codes, not law. the only punishment they can mete out is expulsion, which is not a deprivation of life, liberty or property

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here4 points5 points  (31 children) | Copy Link

I see what you mean. So “due process” only applies to the normal judicial system?

What would you call strengthening the “rights” of the accused in this situation?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 1 point2 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

I see what you mean. So “due process” only applies to the normal judicial system?

due process applies to GOVERNEMNT action thats been held to threaten life, liberty or property. government employment termination and discipline at governemtn schools has been put in a kind of quasi due process situation by the courts, "minimal due process" standards have been outlined by the SC for hearings in these two situations and the campus hearings have routinely been held to meet minimal due process standards. theres really no legal reason the preponderance of the evidence standard cant remain, but theres also no reason not to raise it if its held to be desirable

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand what you’re saying. I just don’t understand why raising the rights of the accused outside of the normal judicial system can’t be described as strengthening “due process” in common parlance. We both know we’re not taking about the normal judicial system so I don’t know why we have to be so pedantic lol

So what would you call strengthening the “rights” of the accused in this case?

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here1 point2 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

Just to be clear atlas, when the lawyer in the article stated:

This year, two California appellate courts have overturned university decisions to suspend students for committing sexual assault because their procedures were so lacking in basic due process.

She is wrong in calling this a lack in basic due process? I’m still a little confused. This lawyer is calling college tribunals lacking in basic due process.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 0 points1 point  (23 children) | Copy Link

i dont know california state law. im talkign abnout the supreme court. each state also has its own due process that can be stricter than the constitution but not LESS strict

99% of this bullshit is happenign in california

i dont understand how appellate courts have jurisdiction over university disciplinary hearings

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here1 point2 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

So it would be accurate to say that these college tribunals in California lack basic due process? Doesn’t that conflict with what you said earlier that “due process” only relates to the normal judicial system?

This lawyer is clearly saying that college tribunals lack basic due process. Would that be wrong to say even in states where tribunal findings haven’t been overturned or challenged yet?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 0 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy Link

Did you read the part i said about California law?

[–]czerdec0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

i dont understand how appellate courts have jurisdiction over university disciplinary hearings

That's OK, you're not a judge.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

no im not, im a member of the PA bar

[–]czerdec1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

due process applies to GOVERNEMNT action

And the "Dear Colleague" letter did not come from the Gubmint?

It did.

Every time the government sends a policy directive, that is a government action. The system of campus kangaroo courts and the improper standard of proof is mandated by Obama's policy directive known as the "Dear Colleague" letter.

You could not be more wrong.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

it did. youre not contradicting anythign i said. i SAID state school courts were government action, why dont you calm down and stop readign things so hysterically

this is EXACTLY why state colleges and universities are required to have hearings and PRIVATE ENTITIES ARE NOT. that state schools ar erequired to have minimal due process hearings before expulsion is a GOOD THING. if they werent REQUIRED TO HAVE HEARINGS they could just expel students at will, without any formal process, do you understand this?

you really dont understand what ive been saying, like at all

[–]czerdec0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

theres really no legal reason the preponderance of the evidence standard cant remain, but theres also no reason not to raise it if its held to be desirable

That's not really hard to understand: the Secretary has the legal power to impose hideously immoral low evidence standards. I don't even disagree, I just think it seems to be a rather obvious point: the government has very broad powers to impose very burdensome dictates, as the law stands. I don't know anyone of note on either side of this debate who denies that.

It's a question of should these immoral POE standards be applied to a crime where the mere accusation is itself a sever punishment. The answer to that lies not in any dry legal formulation, but in whether the person in question has any human decency. The law requires no decency, only self-interest in the long term, and therefore ignores matters that hinge upon it without any legal consequence.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

im sorry, but the idea that expulsion from single college is a "severe punishment is patently ludicrous.

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

But are these cases being simultaneously processed by the criminal justice system and if not, why not? Frankly if I were raped, I wouldn't be satisfied to see my attacker kicked out of school -- I'd want him behind bars for a long, long time.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

But are these cases being simultaneously processed by the criminal justice system and if not, why not?

no they usually arent

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Isn't this odd? Why don't the victims go to the police? Are colleges discouraging them from doing so in order to protect their (the colleges') reputations?

[–]_anothergumnut_ 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

This is exactly what happened at the military academy I went to. Girls were often assaulted on campus and were told that if they went to the civil police they'd lose their jobs. The internal investigations always involved a slap on the wrist so eventually one of the girls said fuck it and went to the cops. It was a fucking disaster for the academy and rightfully so.

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, I know some universities have their own PDs, but I'm not sure how they handle cases like this -- whether they investigate them with an eye to filing criminal charges through the county prosecutor's office or whether they're turned over to some university agency for follow-up.

[–]czerdec0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

the only punishment they can mete out is expulsion, which is not a deprivation of life, liberty or property

That is a very low standard indeed: that a government-controlled powerful entity must toy with a powerless person in as damaging a way as possible, provided the damage doesn't include deprivation of life, liberty or property.

Think of all the devastating things that have happened or almost happened to you in your life that hurt you deeply, which were not a deprivation of life, liberty or property.

If you can't think of a very long list of horrible things, you have lived a very blessed existence.

Do unto others. Anyone who uses "hey, it's not a deprivation of life, liberty or property, guys!" excuse to impose treatment of others which they would not accept on themselves, is very easy to evaluate for moral clarity.

If you believe in privilege as preached by intersectionality, then you are speaking from a position of extreme privilege on this issue. If you rape somebody on campus, it's extremely unlikely to affect your college career as you will not be prosecuted, therefore your view of the world is distorted by your "lens" (if you believe in that stuff). Accordingly your privilege blinds you to the suffering caused by this, and you need to self-educate.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

what

[–]toronto87 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Cancel all government funding and scholarships for Athletics programs, problem solved

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

why should state colleges give up the ENORMOUS amounts of money athletics brings in?

[–]mydikishomofobik1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because they don't want Tyrone to have sex with Becky.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS3 points4 points  (47 children) | Copy Link

Bad idea, there are reasons why the US is generally #1 in the olympics etc., and these programmes are one of them.

The alternative is state-organized recruitment and training of promising prospects like the USSR or the GDR did with great success (and assloads of steroids).

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this14 points15 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Really telling that we care more about an event that happens once every four years than the long term future of the US.

[–]aanarchist9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Pro sports is modern day bread and circus, of course people will prefer that to anything of substance including the future of their nation.

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Theres no guarantee that if people xared to could affect change positively .

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

When the obesity rate is what it is, I don't think we ought to be saying "play less sports"

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Is that what I said? I don't think it is.

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Defunding sports has that function

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

No it doesn't. Do you really think that people who play college level sports would be obese otherwise? Come off it.

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

There would be fewer people playing sports and a less poignant culture of fitness and athleticism. It's not like the world isn't already full of out of shape lards with some "I used to play football" ass story. Defunding sports is wholly counter productive to getting Americans into shape and that chicken-little attitude is by no means justification for it

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Defunding sports is wholly counter productive to getting Americans into shape and that chicken-little attitude is by no means justification for it

It would have no effect. The main reason Americans are so obese is because of their diet. If everyone picked up a sport today for 30 minutes a day, they wouldn't suddenly become not obese if they were still stuffing their faces with cake.

You'd see a much better effect if we stopped putting high fructose corn syrup and sugar in everything.

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That seems overly simplified. For starters, if people are active, they are not just burning fat; they are also building muscle. The carbs that would have been stored as adipose tissue would partially get partitioned as muscle, glycogen, etc. Physical activity also has positive effects on things like ghrelin levels and insulin sensitivity, which can play a helpful role in reducing overeating. And of course, we both know that if we are active enough we can very well still eat crap and be in decent shape

[–]peterlongcLove.Is.The.Drug1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Perhaps we merely have a culture of spectatorism that we should not be afraid to shed. Perhaps instead of spending all weekend glued to our TV with beer and nachos we might get off our fatasses and go outside.

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

cough twitch cough

[–]Ascimatorsmirks audibly0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I am pretty sure that the extreme minority of the professional athletes is not the last bastion keeping the tide of obesity from completely engulfing America. Other factors are at play.

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure I would call collegial athletes pros. They comprise a far bigger group than the professional, top level athletes. We also would presumably see some waves in the high school level due to their being less reason for players to excel at that level if they aren't likely to see rewards at the collegiate level

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Inhowfar would defunding Athletic programs really help the long term future of the US?

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Because we could put the funding towards actual education.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would be curious about the actual numbers and the ROI of either decision.

[–]FalseBuddhaSomething borrowed, something Blue1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's like nearly zero possibility that money gets put back into actual education. I bet at many schools athletics programs at least pay for themselves, if they aren't a net gain. Nick Saban is the highest paid government employee in the country (he currently has an 8 year $75 million contract) and I still bet Bama makes that back on merchandise, licensing, and tuition from students the football program attracts. Plus, whatever benefits game day, with it's 100,000+ attendees, brings to the city of Tuscaloosa.

[–]Aeiexgjhyoun_IIIPurple Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because we could put the funding towards actual education.

While I get your point, a country needs more than stem science, business and law to function. There's a reason we have PE in schools. Sports education is still education, just because there's no books involved doesn't mean something is useless.

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Bad idea, there are reasons why the US is generally #1 in the olympics etc., and these programmes are one of them.

Why does being #1 in the Olympics matter

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because we're a shallow species that suffers from the "toiletseat problem" (a.k.a taking things for granted).

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Stuff like this.

Bread and circuses, and being a citizen of a winner nation might actually feel good.

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Doing everything in service of feeling good leads to malaise

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Personally, I think there are worse ways of raising gross national satisfaction than boosting a few randos with ambition, talent and good genes to become world class athletes, but that's just me.

[–]SerpentCypher4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Bad idea, there are reasons why the US is generally #1 in the olympics etc

Yes. Steroids mostly.

(I'm sure athletics sponsorships and programmes help too, but still)

[–]aanarchist4 points5 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Pro sports is modern day bread and circus and holds no meaning of actual substance. Likewise the athletes in them don't have any meaning or value in their life other than making the people backing them rich and distracting the mob. Sorry.

[–]Aeiexgjhyoun_IIIPurple Pill Man1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Likewise the athletes in them don't have any meaning or value in their life other than making the people backing them rich and distracting the mob. Sorry.

Assuming that an accountant, economist or lawyer has any meaning other than making his/her firm money.

[–]aanarchist0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Lawyers only exist because crime exists, their livelihood depends on the chaos created amongst humans. Economists is about smart allocation of resources, accountants is about proper management of resources. Bread and circus is about funneling in resources into a black hole.

[–]Aeiexgjhyoun_IIIPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

How is one of the world's biggest marketing tools a black hole? You may not like sports but the point of sports from a strictly financial perspective isn't about people watching games, it's about people watching ads.

Secondly, distraction and entertainment are just as important to an advanced civilization as prevention of crime and allocation of resources. Why did Romans have gladiators? To keep the people happy and give them a reason to rejoice each year. For someone working a boring 9-5, sleeping with a boring spouse and going to boring parties, a weekend game is something to look forward too. When I'm feeling stressed out with schoolwork or angry at my girlfriend over some drama, watching real madrid win a game or just entertaining myself with the epl, helps calm me and change my mood. The meaning sports people have in their lives comes from the joy they bring people.

Yes in a society we need doctors, lawyers, and architects to keep society running. But we also need reasons to come together, we need entertainment and we need some hero through whom we can live vicariously. Holidays, parades, movies and sports fulfill that purpose. They make people like me happy, and while that's not the same as preventing crime or redistributing money, it's still meaningful.

[–]aanarchist0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Do you want me to explain it to you until you understand? I'm basically saying water is wet and you're giving me non answers arguing against it.

[–]Aeiexgjhyoun_IIIPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Is this really your response. Very well argued.

[–]aanarchist0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I don't care about your passive aggressive nonsense, do you want me to sit here and break it down until you understand? I am willing to take the time but I'm not wasting my time to someone who's going to be passive aggressive. There is no argument, you don't argue for something that is true it's either true or not true. I can't argue you into believing anything just present information as clearly as possible and hope your ego is ready to accept it.

[–]Aeiexgjhyoun_IIIPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I put forth 3 arguments defending the validity of sports and your responses are all looking hurr durr ego. Why don't you try refuting the points I made instead of launching ad hominem attacks.

[–]TheLongerCon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lawyers only exist because crime exists, their livelihood depends on the chaos created amongst humans.

Really? All lawyers are criminal lawyers? They aren't contract lawyers, patent lawyers, divorce lawyer, etc.

[–]toronto87 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

The #1 reason for the success of US Athletics is doping. Sorry to crush your dreams bro

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

But not as clumsy as the Russians!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol

"US is #1 because we have the most money!"

Great...

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, don't you?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A lot of people are starting to catch on to the economic scam that is the Olympics. I bet they change drastically in the next 30 years

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Was I the only one who read it as Aesthetics programs?

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What would that solve?

[–]NeedingAdvice860 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You do know that for most public college in the US, the athletic programs donate money to the education programs not the other way around....right.

Particularly the football and basketball programs.

And they also are defacto marketing programs which attract students from across the entire country while also collecting large sums of money from private individuals to pay for the non-revenue sports such as women lacross or men's tennis along with many of the most successful donating large sums of money to the educational programs at their schools.

The sports programs give these universities the ability to privatize their marketing and fundraising.

[–]SerpentCypher17 points18 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I mean, yeah. Of course the guys getting all the sex are the ones that are going to be accused of rape. That's common sense.

Contrary to PPD beliefs, the betas, incels and NiceGuys are not actually dangerous and choose to not interact with women anyway. They dream of women choosing them, Chad goes out and takes what he wants, so it stands to reason that any accusations are going to come his way.

[–]toronto87 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Chad just sort of has to choose from the army of women volunteering to be free of charge prostitutes for him and hope he doesn't get a crazy that will accuse of him of rape when she doesn't get the commitment she secretly wanted when pulling the 'lick asshole till commitment falls out' lever on the high status male slot machine.

[–]czerdec1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

when pulling the 'lick asshole till commitment falls out' lever

LOL

[–]_anothergumnut_♀🐰1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Who on PPD has ever said that beta and niceguys are dangerous?

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The people who post in the blue pill and r/inceltears .

[–]SerpentCypher1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Aaaand downvoted. Hey Atlas, you ever think that PPD women saying betas and incels are more dangerous than Chad and downvoting anyone that says they're mostly harmless contributes to them worrying about rape accusations and such?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Hey Atlas, you ever think that PPD women saying betas and incels are more dangerous

it is men i see saying that its betas and omegas being accused of rape and suffering under this regime, not men. women know betas and omegas arent dangerous and arent raping anyone. im really not sure what youre saying

[–]adool4441 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Really? Head out to /r/IncelTears and tell me it doesn't happen.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i am talking about here, not the mentally ill holes who GAF about inceltears

[–]SerpentCypher1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

You've never seen women here claim betas, NiceGuys etc are just as, if not more dangerous to women than other guys, and that they just don't get the opportunity to be? I've seen a fair bit. Usually in response to guys saying women like assholes/dangerous/bad men.

[–]_anothergumnut_♀🐰5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think you're confused.

[–]SerpentCypher1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I thought I was an MRA? Or angry? Or offended? Make your mind up.

[–]_anothergumnut_♀🐰0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

All of the above

[–]SerpentCypher2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think your hamster is out of control again.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean all men are dangerous to women. The nice guy/beta/alpha distinctions are spurious there

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. I don’t know how they’re applying the POTE standard NOW and nearly always finding guilt. The law I practice uses the same standard and shit I wish it was that easy for me to get a decider of fact/law to make such an affirmative finding in my favor. Granted there is obviously an important difference here I need to point out between the law I do and college campuses even despite utilizing the same BOP and that is evidentiary rules which I don’t believe really apply in that context.

So idk i don’t think it’s the burden of proof here being lowered that is really what made all the difference...I tend to think it had to do with cultural overreaction and other motivations (possibly a greater desire to preemptively avoid liability?) to find more people guilty of sexual assault on college campuses.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Any Title 9 overhaul is long overdue. I find it interesting that the feminist democrat lawyer is concerned now that members of the "victim class" are suffering from Title 9. Rest assured the Democrat kooks running Cali will sue the Fed to stop the rule change.

[–]lucky_beast2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh look at that. White women crying rape and black men paying the price.

Imagine my surprise.

Gee, can't think of another time in history where that happened.

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship1 point2 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

How can she prove that there is more than 50% chance she's right if it is ultimately her word against his? It doesn't even seem like the law is the issue, people are just deliberately being irrational to capitulate the demands of the campus rape reactionaries

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

why doesnt anyone on reddit understand that testimony is the primary evidence in all legal proceedings

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Because people can and do lie, and people can and do employ the state to haul those that they want to do harm to. I'm actually blown away that testimony alone is enough.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its the literal basis of the entire trial system. What kind of evidence do you believe there usually is? Have you ever watched a trial? A movie about a trial?

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Testimony by itself is garbage evidence. Unless someone purgers themselves, then one person's testimony can't reasonably be given more weight than another's

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

right. this is false. testimony is primary evidence to establish a fact to the jury. youre just incorrect, thats not how trials work. perjury is not required, testimony can be impeached on cross and direct and is all the time. the credibility of the witness's testimony is like what most of trials are about

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

I don't know what you're getting at. In a scenario where two parties are equally credible, as you pose above, there is nothing to show the accuser is more believable. Ergo, a guilty verdict is untenable

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

youre talking out of your ass

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

How would one logically prove one claim is more correct than another if it's merely their word and against another's?

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression-1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Well, for starters, you might cross-examine them and see if they trip themselves up. (Liars are notorious for having problems keeping their story straight.)

[–]ckulp992 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Except you are not allowed to cross examine the accuser in these campus proceedings and if they are cross examined it’s by the one party system, as discussed in the article. That party is a campus appointed judge jury and advisor to both accused and accuser. Since the college, due to the Obama era mandate, has an interest in finding the accused guilty most of the time these are not fair equal opportunity hearings.

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And considering these incidents probably tend to involve people who are drunk or high ... blargh. Lots of bad judgment I imagine.

[–]SAC-Lawn_Gnome 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Liars are notorious for making up copious amounts of details, since they're able to fit what happened to an imagined scenario and have to only fit it to what people can prove happened.

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Something something tangled webs.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I can’t find a link to the actual article in your post?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

i cut and pasted the whole thing because NYT is paywalled

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

For future reference just type “outline.com/“ at the beginning of the url after you load the article then hit enter. It beats the paywall and formats the article in a mobile friendly way too.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

For all websites? Really?

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

All the ones that load the full article immediately and then hit you with a paywall work.

Some websites don’t load the full text first - a paywall is immediately shown when you load the page. Those won’t work.

[–]mydikishomofobik1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The USA, Canada, and UK are all homosexual transsexual sex prison police states.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You forgot AUS

[–]mydikishomofobik0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Prostitution is legal there, so I consider it to be a little less gay.

[–]Archibald_Andino1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sad she had to invoke race to get the liberal buy in.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20177 points8 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

It’s hard for me to give a fuck about black men getting screwed over by white girls, tbh. Not my fight.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You think it matters whether they date white women or not? The black male rapist meme and the white boy lynch mob don’t give a shit and never did. You may not care but I have a son.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20173 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, but athletes in general are entitled AF. And I’ve seen way too much questionable behavior from them for me to jump on the “theyre being victimized by the system” bandwagon. Running trains has consequences.

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure. It’s interesting that Asians are disproportionately convicted here though. Also, is it really the black athletes that are being disproportionately convicted? It could be that black athletes get what they deserve while white ones get away with things they should not. It could also be that in questionable situations, the black guys get screwed in a new twist on an old mechanism. Perhaps one might advise black male college students to avoid sex outside of committed relationships. Yes, it sucks; yes, it’s not fair...but The Talk isn’t fair either.

[–]b0redfj0rd1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't even tell if it's because you have something against white women or black men or likely both, but this is funny nonetheless.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

😂

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

black men getting screwed over by white girls

they picked their rope.

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nope.

[–]passepar2t4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Are you also saying that the reddit betas/omegas are flattering themselves by thinking that they're a title 9 priority target?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 15 points16 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

not at all. im saying its frankly delusional to beleive that it is omegas and timid betas who are the ones beign brought up on these actual campus charges, which i see asserted here quite frequently. i think it is those people who are INHIBITED by the EXISTENCE of sexual assault rules, tribunals and "teach men not to rape" campaigns, not the men actually being subjected to them

[–]passepar2t1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I can see that.

[–]PeafowlPennywe'll all float on okay1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

All men have to listen to sexual assault hysteria and are being pushed to all take responsibility for it because some men are doing it, that's going to confuse those men.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

i mean yes, thatys what i said. but its being asserted that its actually betas and omegas being run through the system

[–]PeafowlPennywe'll all float on okay0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

There's an explicit threat of being ran through that system though, that's what they're being taught. Making sex all methodical makes people worry.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

makes neurotic people worry

[–]PeafowlPennywe'll all float on okay2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They're new students and most new students are going to be 17-19, so they're not that mature yet, so yeah, they're neurotic like most teens.

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What about the disproportionate number of Asians convicted? They’re not there on athletic scholarships, are they?

[–]nevomintoarcePurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

NO ONE IS SAFE DUDE /s

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this would also depend on how one factors race into a social categorization. The key similarity between the case you present and the narrative that is spouted around here is that those who find themselves in front of a judge are typically not high status/prestige/class. Institutions by-and-large can only really discipline and sanction people and groups with little power.

[–]PBRScagsquad(((Prima Illuminatus)))1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes

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[–]DrippyskippyMonk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well at least the Trump administration is accomplishing something beneficial here.

[–]Christian_Kong80% Natural Red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Under the rules set up by the Obama administration, hundreds of colleges, including many in California, were placed under federal investigation and threatened with the loss of funding for failing to adequately investigate sexual assault complaints.

Trying to wrap my head around this here. So rape hysteria is in part due to the government, because they want a certain standard applied when investigating rape claims that schools were not meeting? I don't know the standards they are supposed to follow, but if there is an issue at hand it would likely be the standards themselves not the penalties they face for not following them.

Generally speaking if you ever have to ask the question "Is Betsy Devos doing the right thing for students" it's almost always no. I would have to read the full list of changes she is trying to push through but my gut tells me the ultimate goal of her regulations is to reduce any financial burden placed on colleges by the rape allegation process(this likely only being part of the regulations.) I cannot give an actual opinion without reading it all though.

Rape cases are extremely tough to navigate and extremely tough to factually prove in any way without video footage or evidence of excessive violence. My only real opinion on that is that they are extremely tough waters to navigate and making a fair judicial process is going to take a very long time.

I don't think I often see people here say rapists are "nice white omegas." I would say the trope around here is the fratboy type.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Trying to wrap my head around this here. So rape hysteria is in part due to the government, because they want a certain standard applied when investigating rape claims that schools were not meeting?

did you not know this?

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So it’s the uni administrators version of permit patty?

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ha. That women was horrible.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

College should not be doing the polices job.

Everyone deserve due process.

[–]palescopePurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Toxically masculine men who sexually assault women are raised by single mothers, who are defended and enabled by feminists.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

disproportionately punished black men.

not if they're committing a disproportionate amount of rapes and sexual assaults.

and this may be a controversial statement, but i'm guessing that there were far fewer incidents of sexual assault accusation when colleges were still racially segregated.

also, the fact that the NCAA have such strict rules about not paying student athletes at least partially contributes to this. there's a lot of very sketchy recruiting shit that goes on. a lot of the bigger programs have cute female students who serve as "hostesses" for potential recruits when they visit campuses.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

not if they're committing a disproportionate amount of rapes and sexual assaults

are they? Got the stats to back that up?

and this may be a controversial statement, but i'm guessing that there were far fewer incidents of sexual assault accusation when colleges were still racially segregated.

Not controversial. Just wrong. "88% of rapes are intraracial"

Thanks for so aptly demonstrating what I've been saying all week

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/a3tglv/the_only_2_of_reported_rapes_are_false_statistic/ebank3t/?context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/a2re0q/wall_street_rule_for_the_metoo_era_avoid_women_at/eb1ctsr/

[–]sailorlycia 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Based on what are you making that guess? I'm honestly curious.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

just pulled it out of my ass and too lazy to research to see if it's true

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill-2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The logic for the title ix stuff never sat well with me. But I don't like seeing it go if it's going to encourage more Chads 2 b Chads

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

im curious, did you actually at some point believe it was Not-Chad getting these women alone and being too pushy?

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

i thhought it was 'nice reddit omegas' being awkward and getting misunderstood or seen as creepy

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

that fascinates me, how would these nice reddit omegas who cant even declare their intentions verbally to women be being so physically pushy over sex with them that theyre getting accused of rape?

a rape accusation is not an accusation of "creepiness"--its forcible or pushy sexual intercourse

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the paranoid would think being creepy near a woman is all it takes

that fascinates me, how would these nice reddit omegas who cant even declare their intentions verbally to women be being so physically pushy over sex with them that theyre getting accused of rape?

also for affirmative consent it doesnt just mean being pushy, it also means not being 100% aware of any kind of discomfort

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is then being seen as creepy but this doesn’t result in an actual “case” just mean words and maybe an online post

[–]PearsOfWrath-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

EDIT: THIS IS NOT A RACE POST, RACE IS RELEVANT TO THE SPECIFIC ARTICLE AND TO WHO IN FACT IS BEARING THE BRUNT OF THESE ACCUSATIONS AT COLLEGES. RACE IS VERY SPECIFICALLY GERMANE AND THIS IS NOT BAITING OR A CALL TO RACIALIST DISCUSSION, BUT TO CAMPUS CULTURE AND ATHELETES ETC

Lmao, had to include this so the mods didn't immediately take your post down. Jesus.

Anyway, no surprise that white girls fucking black guys are also psycho rape accusers. Shame.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mmkay

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

An analysis of assault accusations at Colgate, for example, found that while only 4.2 percent of the college’s students were black in the 2012-13 school year, 50 percent of the sexual-violation accusations reported to the school were against black students, and blacks made up 40 percent of the students who went through the formal disciplinary process. We have long over-sexualized, over-criminalized and disproportionately punished black men. It should come as no surprise that, in a setting in which protections for the accused are greatly diminished, this shameful legacy persists.

Or, y'know, it could be possible that black men are committing a disproportionate amount of the assaults? Were these incidents investigated by the criminal justice system, and if so, how many accusations were substantiated? I think that would give a somewhat clearer picture of what's going on here.

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Or it could be that white assaulters get away with it while blacks are reported and convicted.

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's possible too, which is why I'm curious as to the results of police investigations, which I'd assume are conducted a bit more rigorously than ones by the university (which has a vested interest in preserving its reputation).

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe when the white athletes sexually assault women it never even gets reported.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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