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Rape is a crime that is hard to prove or disprove. The majority of cases are thrown out due to lack of evidence, only a few of them cases result in convictions, or are confirmed to be false reports.

Feminists are automatically assuming that every report which isn't proven false is true. I could easily flip this around and say that the majority of rape reports are false, because the majority of them are not proven to be true in court.


[–]DesignerDebates3 small children in a trench coat[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy Link

I won’t change it as this has been up for 12 hours, but post titles that make an affirmative claim need to be tagged as CMV. Please familiarize yourself with the sidebar and guidelines for posting.

[–]HystericalprinceBlue Pill Man40 points41 points  (44 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, this is prob true, and you gotta remember that proven innocent doesn’t prove mean the rape didn’t happent, just means there wasn’t enough evidence to convict.

[–]eliechallita19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Or that they got the right person in the first place: If the victim didn't know her attacker well enough to identify them, or was too intoxicated or distressed to do it correctly, then it's possible that the initial accusation targeted the wrong person simply because the victim couldn't be more precise.

That doesn't mean that the rape didn't happen or that the victim is lying, but only that the investigation didn't have enough information to catch the right person.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most rapes are by someone the victim knows, and a significant percentage of them are children under 18 years old.

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't mean that it did happen either, which is what feminists are insinuating when they point out that only 2% of rape reports are false, when in reality a lot of cases are thrown out that might be true or false.

[–]Alth12Purple Pill Man12 points13 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

No one has a problem with this standard with any other crime but rape though. It's only with rape that you see this thrown up consistently when people are found not guilty. If someone accused of murder is found not guilty you rarely see anyone saying "doesn't mean they didn't do it.!"

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because murder is much easier to prove than rape

Many victims dont even report because they know they won't be believed and it's the abusers word against theirs

[–]reluctantly_red7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because murder is much easier to prove than rape

No its not! Murder victims have a hard time testifying.

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Many victims dont even report because they know they won't be believed and it's the abusers word against theirs

And then they wait 35 years to be deployed in the service of Democratic Party power plays - because women are equals and adults who employ the social mechanisms we've put in place for justice and dispute resolution.

[–]couldbemage3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Except in reality, people always say that about every not guilty verdict. At the very least the prosecutor had to. It's literally illegal to try someone for a crime unless you believe they did it.

[–]Alth12Purple Pill Man1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Don't know what world you live in. But most people I know still abide by innocent until proven guilty. Hence not being found guilty means you're seen as innocent. That is of course unless the guy/gal gets off purely on a technicality.

[–]Oncefa2SJW1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think with rape allegations it is a little different, especially when all you have to do it tweet about it (hashtag #metoo) and everybody believes you by default, without even having to go to court to prove your case against them.

This is probably why so many men seem to have a problem with it. You can be accused of something and have literally no way to defend yourself of those allegations.

At least when it comes to murder, people tend to wait for the court system to do it's thing. With rape it's kind of like the Willd West with no real rule of law to protect innocent people.

[–]Alth12Purple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agree. That's the biggest problem with rape accusations today. They circumvent the normal system entirely.

[–]frogsgoribbit7374 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Uhhh yeah they do. OJ anyone?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It depends on what the media wants the public to think.

[–]Alth12Purple Pill Man1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

One case.

[–]Meetchel2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's a relatively common sentiment though. Oscar Pistorius? George Zimmerman?

[–]Alth12Purple Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's really not. Thousands of murder cases go to trial every year. A sizable percentage get a not guilty verdict. If your sentiment was common then everyone would be shit scared to leave the house for all the murderers on the loose.

[–]squishles1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It sounds like an exceptions prove the rule thing; rape it's a blanket all of them thing. Murder the specific instances have names.

[–]Meetchel2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can name just about the same number with respect to rape.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.9 points10 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

there is just guilty/not guilty.

[–]question494625 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That’s in the blind black-and-white eye of the law. It’s almost like science: it’s either disproved or supported-but-not-proved. A rape may have occurred, but unless it occured beyond all doubt then the law would rather a guilty party go free than an innocent party wind up in prison.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Well yes, because of due process. Victims don't have rights, defendants do. It is "beyond a reasonable doubt".

[–]SerpentCypher1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Do you see this as a problem?

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Absolutely not. I am liberal, and I've done criminal defense.

[–]SerpentCypher1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh thank goodness. You're normal lol.

[–]------__------------3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Clearly we should be investigating rape crimes with spirituality rather than science

[–]HystericalprinceBlue Pill Man3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah yeah

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas9 points10 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

The burden of proof falls upon the positive, “believe women” is a demand to shift the burden of proof into the negative, or accused. This is both unfair and unreasonable

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

And many men use the fact its hard to prove, and the amount of slut shaming in society to get away with rape.

[–]reluctantly_red7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Rape is pretty damn uncommon. I've been appointed on thousands of criminal cases over the last 12 years. I've been appointed on more murders (5) than rapes.

[–]red__aaron0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

rape trials are pretty uncommon. Most rapes aren’t reported

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Almost all stranger rapes are reported. What isn't reported are the much more grey area dating cases.

[–]the_calibre_cat4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

But the overwhelming majority of men don't, and meanwhile you're in the camp that wants to restrict due process protections for people who own penises.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I don't want to restrict anything, I'm just stating facts.

The overwhelming majority of people don't commit any serious crime, does that mean we should absolve responsibility from those who do? Don't get your point, stop acting butthurt when women talk about the reality of their lives. YOU might be a decent man but far too many men arnt

Btw many men slut shame, including those that wouldn't dream of raping or even touching a woman unwanted.

[–]the_calibre_cat5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

YOU might be a decent man but far too many men arnt

No no, you misunderstand. The overwhelming majority of men don't do this, and that's according to feminist math.

Btw many men slut shame, including those that wouldn't dream of raping or even touching a woman unwanted.

  1. Slut shaming isn't a crime

  2. Free speech, bitch

  3. Many women slut shame, when you care about that as much as you do what men say, I'll start giving a shit

[–]Semb1anceAdderall XR5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's funny because women slut shame significantly more than men do lol

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with that, or atleast they are nastier about it. A lot of guys love sluts, its the butthurt conservative incel types who slut shame.

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think sluts make the world go 'round. I wouldn't commit to one, but I'm not unhappy they're around.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The overwhelming majority of people don't murder, so should we just ignore those that do?

What has Its legality got to do with anything? I was merely pointing out rapists use the pervasive slut shaming culture to get away with rape. So what's your point?

I agree with your final point.

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The overwhelming majority of people don't murder, so should we just ignore those that do?

We do. We accept that murder happens. We recognize that it is shitty, but that in a nation of 320 million somewhat advanced monkeys, that sometimes things are going to happen that cause one person to murder another person. We don't run "HEY MEN: TRY NOT MURDERING PEOPLE" campaigns, we don't run "1 IN 5 MURDERERS ESCAPES CONVICTION" campaigns, etc.

If we gave rape as much airtime as we give murder, you'd find a lot less people complaining - I don't regularly get lumped in with murderers because I happen to own a dick.

So, yeah, good example.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No one lumps you in with rapists, stop talking bollocks.

[–]Oncefa2SJW0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

YOU might be a decent man but far too many men arnt

This is the exact narrative that he has a problem with. Most men period don't rape people or do anything like that. It's been hugely exaggerated and it's being used to take away people's civil liberties (and let's be honest, women really aren't affected, even if I use the word "people"; it's men who are losing their rights because of this).

Besides, the United States and many other Western democracies were founded on this principle.

"Better to let 100 guilty men go free than find 1 innocent man guilty".

This is a standard, btw, that America is falling to hold itself up to right now. Something like 5% of death row inmates are innocent, with a much higher proportion amoung the regular prison population.

Presumed rapists and murderers are later found to be innocent all the time. Like it's ridiculous that so many people want to make this situation worse by making it easier to put people in jail, and all because of some rapist boogieman that people are afraid of.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You have no evidence of this, you assumed it for no reason

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Loads of men have come out with the old 'she consented!' Line and subsequently been found guilty. God only knows the amount of cases that little trick worked on.

[–]speed3_freakOld School Red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the problem is that x% of reported rapes are false is a fact, but it's also a fact that there is no way in the world anyone could purport that they know what the value of x is. The title of the post is accurate regardless of what is in the text box.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm gonna piss off feminists and MRAs alike right now:

There aren't as many rapists as feminists think there are, and there aren't as many false rape accusations as MRAs think there are.

Fite me!

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What matters is not the actual number of false rape reports, but rather the percentage of them that are false.

[–]DissentientUnplugged10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

[...] statistic commonly cited by feminists is misleading

In other news, water is wet.

Aside from "not proven true" argument, it's important to point out that a false rape accusation doesn't need to actually be filed, a woman could tell everyone in her social circle that a man raped her and that man's reputation will be ruined just the same.

[–]UnconfidenceSocial Anarchist - BP2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, this is true.

[–]I-am-Narcissistic2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is very tricky situation to manage, as very few cases give 100% assurance as to the validity of the claim or the identity of an attacker. Red tape and other issue within society and the system lead to so many problems I fear there will never be an effective and practical method of handling this situation.

If you "believe the victim" you risk punishing an innocent, and if you give the accused to much room it makes it easier to avoid punishment. As even if we all agree rape is bad, we don't all agree on what should be punishable rape. Some think an intoxicated drunkenly consented to romp is rape, and other believe it takes more...and all types of opinions.

Only way to fix most of social issue would require what we perceive as dystopian, yet in some cases I do believe that we can not willingly control ourselves...you maybe should have privileges and not "rights". As we use are rights to argue away need protections, and things that would make negative events like rape less frequent.

[–]MGTOWtoday17 points18 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I looked into this some time ago, read peer reviewed papers by criminologists on the subject, and the consensus seems to be that the real number of false rape accusations can not be known.

Of the many studies done on the subject has had wildly varying results, from 1% to 99% and every thing in between. However the Kanin study is interesting in that it was commissioned by the defense department to have very high standards, and it looked at false accusations in the military, and only counted a false accusation if the accuser admitted she lied. Kanin then took an entirely different dataset from a civilian population, he picked a moderately sized town in the Midwest with a lower than average crime rate so the police would have ample time and resources to investigate rape claims thoroughly. Amazingly, and unlike any other study done on this topic, Kanin was able to replicate his results. Those results? At least 41% of rape claims are false, and they could be as high as 60% (but could not be proven without a doubt to be false).

The concept of the vindictive woman is a stereotype for a good reason. And women are almost never prosecuted for false rape claims. As a result, the rule should never be #believewomen, but assume all rape claims are false unless the evidence proves that it’s true. Quite frankly, I don’t think date rape exists. I think rape is extremely rare. About as rare as winning the lotto. If women really were as scared of it as they pretend to be then they wouldn’t get shit faced as pass out at a house party surrounded by strangers. It’s obvious that women are just doing what they always do, trying to play the victim so others feel sorry for her and give her things she doesn’t deserve for free.

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think you're getting confused, the Kanin study looked at false rape accusation at two Midwestern universities and a Midwestern town.

You might be thinking of Charles P McDowell's study, who studied rape cases in the Air Force.

[–]MGTOWtoday3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s been about 4 years since I read up on this, so I may be forgetting some of the finer details

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And women are almost never prosecuted for false rape claims.

It's ironic - if you do everything feminists asks for when it comes to the issue of rape (which includes not only "don't stigmatize women for being rape victims", but also idiotic things like "always believe women because they wouldn't lie about rape"), then you'd end up with women starting to lie about rape because it turns into a lot cost/high reward-strategy when it comes to inflicting damage on men they want to punish for whatever reason.

[–]Alth12Purple Pill Man2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Hmm, i think they're prosecuted for false claims where the evidence generally points to it being false. But they're not prosecuted under some false rape claim charge. Often they're prosecuted for lying to the police etc. The only time we hear about false accusations being prosecuted though is in high profile cases or if the victim brings it to the media's attention.

I know in the UK, at least according to one of my best friends who works in criminal law these cases are prosecuted as "wasting police time" quite regularly, and often the harshest punishment is being given out (6 months in jail). That might seem lenient, and perhaps it is, but at least they are being prosecuted.

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

i think they're prosecuted for false claims where the evidence generally points to it being false.

I'm unaware of anybody (male or female) being prosecuted for making a false rape/sexual assault/domestic violence claim in any of the three California counties I've worked in over the last 12 years.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ve done one in my brief one year stint of practicing criminal defense.

[–]Discoberry11 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The burden of proof in the UK is on the accused isn't it?

[–]Alth12Purple Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, it's on the accuser or more specifically on the police and CPS. That's still the law.

[–]MGTOWtoday1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The police in the UK will certainly prosecute this, but they’re the only country in all of western civilization that does so.

[–]Peter59307 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Nobodykers4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That was satisfying to read. Some have been convicted to years behind bars. Fuck them.

[–]Peter59302 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not so satisfying is the journalists weeping over the poor women and the unfairness of them being prosecuted for their false accusations.

Vulnerable Women Are Routinely Prosecuted – And Imprisoned – For False Rape Claims In The UK

Well boo hoo, cry me a river. Of course vulnerable women are being prosecuted, it's the nutcases who make these accusations and the nutcases are vulnerable women by definition.

[–]Nobodykers4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What a bunch of retards. Many criminals have had a violent childhood and abuse drugs.

But BuzzFeed doesn't care because those are males.

[–]Alth12Purple Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well at least they're doing something right. Everything else seems to be a shitshow right now and I'm saying that as a Brit.

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[–]allweknowisD1 point2 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

I wonder when I’ll come onto PPD and not see the same false rape post being posted for the 100th time.

This sub is paranoid

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, men need to stop being paranoid of false rape accusations and women need to stop being afraid every guy is a potential rapists.

We've fostered a very paranoid society.

[–]allweknowisD2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Men demonise women for treating every man like that but have no qualms wanting to treat every interaction with a woman and woman in general like they’re going to get falsely accused of rape.

It’s ridiculous

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why make that statement just about men??

Women also demonise men for treating every woman like that but have no qualms wanting to treat every interaction with a man and men in general like they’re going to get raped.

And yes, it is ridiculous.

[–]allweknowisD0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because I’m on a post that’s full of men treating women like that? I’d say otherwise on a vice versa post

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To be fair, literally 100% of this is due to blue pill conditioning.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

women need to stop being afraid every guy is a potential rapists.

Most women aren’t. This is a strawman created by men who want any excuse they can find to avoid approaching women and/or to vilify women.

[–]the_calibre_cat3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Lol what? This is feminism's regular retort, "Well, YOU don't live in fear of assault every moment of your life!" etc, etc.

I'm NOT afraid of approaching women and having a conversation, and I'll happily flirt at work. Women, though, are actually pretty apprehensive around most men, per feminism's conditioning that any man is a walking, talking, potential violent explosion.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

  1. Most women are not feminist activists and have far more to worry about in our lives than writing 80 page papers on rape culture.

  2. Saying that men are less at risk of being raped doesn’t equal saying all men are rapists.

I'm NOT afraid of approaching women and having a conversation

Good

I'll happily flirt at work.

Never flirt or have any sexual/relationship activity at work. It’s not worth the risk.

Honestly I do find that I naturally get flirty around men I find very attractive. But at work, I shut that instinct off and behave around them and treat them the same I do any colleague. We are there to do the job we’re getting paid to do, not to find dates or get laid.

The other thing that strikes me about this idea of men being upset that they can’t flirt with women at work and ask them out. A lot of men in the manosphere seem to not have much of a social life. So work is the only place they interact with women. So I know why they get so riled up by sexual harassment policies. But too bad. Find somewhere else to meet women.

Women, though, are actually pretty apprehensive around most men

Many of us are not. We’re apprehensive about men who abuse relationships and power to take advantage of us sexually. That the manosphere can’t understand this is not our fault or our problem.

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Never flirt or have any sexual/relationship activity at work. It’s not worth the risk.

That's nice. I'm not really interested in letting the social justice crew ruin work for their ideal, extremely boring world. I exist because of an at-work relationship, and I'm likely to find a woman with like interests at the same place of work. Men shouldn't give on this at all - women certainly don't.

Work is a social environment. I'm not interested in assisting people crush our humanity at work because they possess transparently thin skin. If a dude is legitimately harrassing, report his ass, I don't give a fuck - but an approach isn't harrassment, no matter how badly feminists want it to be.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Many companies have policies that regulate even prohibit dating within the same department of office. And they were doing this when you millennials were shitting in your diapers. This isn’t new.

They do this to protect themselves from lawsuits and problems that usually arise when people start dating in the workplace. Some people can be discreet but you and I both know a lot of people can’t.

You really can’t blame companies.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Many companies have policies that regulate even prohibit dating within the same department of office.

And cocaine is illegal, doesn't mean people don't or shouldn't do it, that's just a shitty corporate rule that exists to protect the company, not the workers or their well-being.

I'm not blaming companies.

[–]Peter59301 point2 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Here's 8 cases that I posted and another 5 cases that another user posted. I could dig this stuff up all day if I didn't have other things to do.

[–]allweknowisD2 points3 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, could you point to where I said it doesn’t ever happen? Don’t recall that part of my comment.

Showing me cases of it happening doesn’t equate to this sub being overly paranoid. Don’t know a single person in real life that’s scared of these things.

[–]kragshotDon't mind me...I'm just studying all of you talking monkeys....2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

I have been falsely accused of rape. It cost me nearly everything I had at the time, including my home town as I had to leave due to the aftermath of the entire situation. Not only was it proven that I did not rape the accuser (I was two counties away when the alleged rape was supposed to have happened and furthermore, I had never even met the woman; she picked me out from a lineup), it was established that no rape had taken place (the woman lied to cover up having been seen in a tryst with the other man), but I was still suffering from the stigma of being a rapist (this included the local feminists going to the media and insisting that I was "a rapist that got away with it").

So, yeah...I'm scared as fuck of it ever happening again. I've spent nearly a decade in therapy dealing with all of the shit that came with that bag of rusty fishhooks that was forced over and into my head. Even with being married; my relationships with women are strained and as a result, any woman that wants to enter my social circle has to be screened and vetted (and for the record, I have few to no feminists as friends).

So yeah...I'm apprehensive as fuck around women that I don't know and cautious around the ones that I do know. But you are apparently living a charmed life. When it happens to somebody you actually know, then get back to me.

[–]allweknowisD1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Again, nowhere did I say this didn’t happen. And your reaction is understandable just like anyone that’s been through something like that.

However, this crazy thing on PPD, TRP etc. where false rape accusations is a daily topic is nothing but paranoia

[–]Oncefa2SJW0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

I saw it happen in college to another guy. He got off easy though; basically just had to fight the girl's boyfriend because he was about the only person who believed her (getting raped was her cover for cheating on him at a party).

I also remember a childhood friend lying about his dad at the behest of his divorced wife (said his dad molested him). Not the same thing that we're talking about, but when you see stuff like this happen you definitely get upset about it.

Like it's a lot more common than people want to admit.

[–]allweknowisD0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

It’s not nearly as common as this sub likes to make out. It is not a common occurrence.

Like I grew up in a deprived area where the type of people more likely to make these false accusations (criminal history, previous fabrications particular) and this has not happened to a single person there.

It’s just not a common thing in everyday life. Whereas this sub likes to talk about it like everyone knows a person that’s been falsely accused of rape because it happens to that many guys.

It doesn’t. You’re still more likely to be raped than falsely accused of rape. Yet people are more concerned of being falsely accused than being raped.

[–]Oncefa2SJW0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

You’re still more likely to be raped than falsely accused of rape.

It's hard to say that that's actually true, but that's not really what the issue is.

Yet people are more concerned of being falsely accused than being raped.

People are concerned about due process and their civil liberties being violated.

[–]allweknowisD0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

It’s not hard to say. No data anywhere puts false rape accusations at the same statistic as being raped.

You can be concerned. But this obsession and paranoia isn’t healthy. But if you want to obsess over something that’s unlikely to happen then you do you

[–]Peter59301 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

and not see the same false rape post being posted for the 100th time.

Have you seen all of those ones I posted 100 times or are they new to you?

[–]allweknowisD0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I said about being posted, you’re adding a comment. That’s not what I was talking about.

Same paranoid bullshit

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

10k upvotes

[–]allweknowisD0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

???

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’d give you 10,000 upvotes if I could

[–]meeselbon5731 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Truth

[–]Discoberry11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What is the definition of false? Does that mean the accuser was later charged with a crime? Does this 2% include the 'rapes that go unreported?'

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

There's a distinction between these cases:

  • Someone intentionally raped someone else
  • Someone intentionally falsely accused someone else of rape
  • Someone felt raped and the other person thought there was consent

I believe most of what we're talking about fall in the last category.

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Someone felt raped and the other person thought there was consent

How is that possible? She could have just said “no” or “stop”.

I believe most of what we’re talking about

Baseless claim

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

How is that possible? She could have just said “no” or “stop”.

Women "freezing" because of a sensed threat is apparently common if you believe women's experience.

I believe most of what we’re talking about Baseless claim

The only thing I claim is me to believe something, I'm not claiming the thing I believe is absolutely the truth.

[–]Oncefa2SJW0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women "freezing" because of a sensed threat is apparently common if you believe women's experience.

Honestly you really shouldn't blame the man if this happens. Like you can't just play the victim card over everything that ever happens to you; at a certain point women should have to take responsibility for themselves and their actions.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

this is why i want a distinction to be made.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You expect WAAAAAAY too much from women.

Feminism has taught society that all of women's decisions lie on the shoulders of men.

As a man, you are required to obtain enthusiastic consent from your female partner. We certainly can't expect these victims of the patriarchy to use big girl words!! You fuck misogynistic shitlord!!

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

Is there really anything to discuss here?

[–]TedescheMRA4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I make this argument regularly with them. Have yet to see it be countered. Most of the time, they don’t even try, just change topics.

[–]Haste-Leans Red + Wants A Nuclear Family2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Actually its more like 2-10%. Heres a vid that explains this whole thing. https://youtu.be/I8zSDvaYrRw

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The point is that feminists treat this 2% statistic (which is the absolute minimum nobody can deny and almost certainly false) as if it's gospel.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

do you think you could link to anyone making this claim, and the basis for the claim?

who makes this claim and whats their evidence?

[–]Texastentialismfoidian slip3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This infographic has been going around for years and starts popping up every time a big rape story is in the news or there's another public conversation about false accusations, MeToo etc. That's probably what OP is referring to.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oo yeh ive seen that tx

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Weren't a bunch of feminists at the Kavanaugh hearing trotting this statistic out and using it as proof that Ford wasn't making it up?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i dont know, were they? i dont read feminists or pay attention to them. like DURING the actual hearing?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (70 children) | Copy Link

I'm sincerely curious: what do you think a woman's motivation is to file a false report of rape?

Considering, as you've said, the majority of cases are thrown out due to lack of evidence, only a few result in convictions. Reporting a rape is a humiliating process. A person who reports a rape will irrevocably change the way everyone who's ever met them sees them, will lose friends, will lose support from their family, can have their claim used as evidence to increase the cost of their health insurance for other trauma-related claims.

'Accuse a guy I'm mad at of rape' is not even on the top 1000 responses to being wronged that I'd consider, purely in terms of potential consequences incurred vs. potential for me to exact satisfying revenge. There's no 'proof' to be had, as the accusation is false; there's no benefit to be gained, as at best a reporting woman will be treated as something ranging from an idiot slut to a pitiable dumbass.

With the way the judicial system treats rape, with the way we treat rape victims as a culture and as people, I'll stab a fucker if I care so damn much about hurting him. I'd get more sympathy for it than I would for accusing him of assault, too.

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community19 points20 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

what do you think a woman's motivation is to file a false report of rape?

You may be different but it can be used for blackmail, to hurt him socially and to avoid responsibility.

One story I read was of a dad who killed his daughter's boyfriend. She claimed he was a stranger in her room and he was going to rape her when she actually had brought him in late one night for sex. Dad walked in, daughter denied knowing him, dad killed him.

That was to avoid responsibility.

Edit: for anyone looking for the article

https://m.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/father-finds-daughters-boyfriend-her-bed-murders-h/2199998/

The 16-year-old girl allegedly snuck Johran into her room without permission. Her father was then awoken by one of his four children, who told him there was someone else in the house.

After finding Johran there, his daughter immediately denied knowing him, leading to an argument between him and the boy.

Her father called police before an argument broke out. He then opened fire when the teen dropped his hands as if to pick something up.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Black men are victims of that shit constantly.

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No doubt that's why the shooter and daughter got away with it.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

But many of the same white and Asian guys here insisting women lie 99% of the time about rape are quick to believe it if the accused is black. Have you seen anyone here claiming Cosby’s accusers are lying? Of course not.

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm Asian, and I am indeed critical of the jury's decision to convict Cosby.

Out of that many women who testified, there was not a shred of physical evidence, and not a single neutral third party witness?

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cosby is beyond Harvey Weinstein levels of disgraced.

[–]Oncefa2SJW1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There was a story a couple years ago of a highschool girl accusing someone of rape to get out of taking a test.

The guy apparently committed suicide as a result...

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

Surely you've seen the videos of women threatening to say a guy raped her of she doesn't get what she wants, right? There are quite a few on YouTube.

Also, any time there's an AskMen thread about their rape, there are a fuck ton of stories of girls that told the guy she'd say he raped her if he didn't have sex. He knew nobody would believe him, so he had sex.

Plus, there seems to be a new thing where you wear your rape like a badge of honor or something. I don't know what it is with millennials, but they all gotta be a victim of something.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (32 children) | Copy Link

Plus, there seems to be a new thing where you wear your rape like a badge of honor or something.

Examples?

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Ever heard of this #metoo thing?

It's kind of obscure, so probs not.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card3 points4 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

You think #metoo was about being proud of being an assault or harassment victim?

Talking about something painful that happened to you means you’re proud of being a victim? Are men who talk about being victims of divorce rape and false abuse accusations proud of it?

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

The overabundance of #metoo absolutely was being part of a movement, even if all you could muster was "some guy grabbed my ass in the bar once....#METOO!!!!"

I don't think they're proud of it, they just want to fit in and you can't fit in if you don't have your own personal sexual assault story to tell.

Guys are the only ones taking #metoo seriously.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card-2 points-1 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

fit in

The vast majority of stories were shared anonymously.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

What??

No they weren't!

Girls posted on their social media all over the place! It was a mad attention grab, which is exactly why nobody takes it seriously anymore.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card3 points4 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Let me rephrase, the stories themselves were anonymous. The whole point of it was that women have carried these experiences with them and never told anyone because they would be called liars -- exactly like youre doing right now -- and its time to stop silencing women by discounting their experience -- exactly like you're doing right now -- because that's what allows abusers to continue getting way with their abuse.

Irony.

I get it. You'll never believe that sexual assuault and harrassment are common experiences for women. If it ever happens to a woman you love, I hope she has someone else to turn to for support.

Better yet, if it ever happens to you (men are more likely to be raped than to be falsely accused), I hope you find someone who offers you what you can't bring yourself to give anyone else.

I'd be curious to know if you think the accusers of the priests are lying too.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Jesus Christ.

I never said all metoo was lying. It started out as a noble cause, and I waa fully on board with getting the scum bags like Weinstein taken out.

But then it turned into every wannabe that needed some attention and wanted their 15 minutes of fame and you got shit like Louis CK, Aziz Ansari and Kavanaugh getting crucified on the most flimsy (if any) of evidence.

It's turned from something good into a witch hunt and an attention grab.

I already know that as a man I have no justice and that nobody would believe me anyways. That's my male privilege right there.

And if anyone close to me accuses someone of sexual assault, you better fucking well believe I'm gonna be supportive but skeptical.

Too many women lie about this shit and those close to me are no exception.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Let me rephrase, the stories themselves were anonymous. The whole point of it was that women have carried these experiences with them and never told anyone because they would be called liars

Your problem is that you're doing the feminist thing and assume that just because there are women who fit into your ideologically motivated preconceptions (actual victims, didn't get justice, are ashamed, want to avoid judgment and/or ostracization and simply want to get their experiences of their chest without all that), that all women who claim victim status must fit into it.

[–]Oncefa2SJW1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are people (women) bragging about famous celebrities flirting with them at parties with the hashtag #metoo. It's basically just a platform for women to brag about turning people down who made passes on them at this point.

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Amber Amour and Mattress Girl spring to mind.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Amber Amour

Who is?

Mattress Girl was protesting treatment of rape victims by schools and society.

The irony here is that by telling women who talk about their attacks that they're "wearing it like a badge of honor," you're literally proving women like mattress girl right. "Just shut up and don't talk about it and don't tell anyone."

[–]kragshotDon't mind me...I'm just studying all of you talking monkeys....7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Mattress Girl was protesting treatment of rape victims by schools and society.

Nope. Emma Sulkowicz was counting on the political climate to shield her from the results of her own perfidy and everybody helped her for the sake of that political agenda.

The phone logs proved that she was all salty because her booty call with Paul Nungesser didn't turn into a whirlwind romance and she decided to get even with him because he didn't do what she wanted. Once it was found out that she was lying about her encounter with Nungesser; rather than just letting the whole thing die down, she decided to double down on her lies and stoke her own Reichstag fire, using mattresses and the political climate as fuel.

Furthermore, Columbia decided that it was in their own best financial interests to support Sulkowicz's lie (because she wasn't asking for anything other than having Nungesser expelled) rather than admit that they fucked up and do right by Nungesser, which would have led to the school having to offer him financial recompense for their wrongdoing.

Claiming that the "Mattress Girl" situation was anything more than an attention grab stemming from a spurned woman's ire is an insult to every human being that has ever been forced into a sexual situation not of their own choosing or will.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I thought columbia found him not guilty?

anything more than an attention grab

Kind of what a protest is, isn’t it? Kind of the whole point?

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He had to sue the university because of how they treated him.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/07/24/media-circus-surrounding-mattress-girl-case-changed-conversation-sexual-assault

Nungesser felt so ostracized on campus that he sued the university in 2015 for complacency in his harassment, asserting that because Sulkowicz would receive academic credit for her protest, Columbia was condoning it. Though he failed in court twice, Columbia settled with him recently for an undisclosed amount of money.

And a protest should be more than an attention grab by someone trying to avoid responsibility for their poor decisions and behavior.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He was found not guilty and didn’t face any criminal charges. Im not wrong about that am I?

Yes well in a free country people can protest whatever they want.

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Amber was a chronic 'rape victim' who posted about her 'rapes' on social media after they happened to score attention.

She went to South Africa, claimed a guy raped her after she agreed to go to a hotel with him, get naked and shower with him. He allegedly forced her to her knees and raped her in the shower where all the evidence was washed away. She took pics of herself getting a rape kit done. I believe the alleged rapist was arrested but not charged due to her ridiculous story.

Mattress girl was not protesting the treatment of rape victims. She was not a victim. She was hoping to avoid responsibility for a false claim after Facebook messages showed what she and her friend did was consensual. He, meanwhile, suffered social isolation and reputation damage as she, a false victim, scored social and media attention. She lies about it and gets to make a 'powerful' statement while the accused has to sue the university because of how poorly he was treated.

[–]angels_fan 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Mattress Girl was protesting treatment of rape victims by schools and society.

Oh fuck off!!! She was not! She never recounted her supposed "rape", even though it was shown without a doubt that she consented.

She certainly never tried to help Nungesser get back into school or clear his name, did she?

You make me sick defending a fucking piece of shit like Sulkowicz.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

She certainly never tried to help Nungesser get back into school or clear his name, did she?

Why would she do that when she accused him in the first place?

Is this some of that impressive “reason” you were talking about? LMFAO

And fuck you too.

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He's right tho. You're usually pretty reasonable, mattress girl wasn't.

If your movement is supposedly beyond criticism and fair to men, you can't possibly defend mattress girl.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't decide if you're trolling or if you're really this stupid.

I know you aren't stupid, so I'm going to assume you're just trolling.

Anyways, I don't debate trolls.

Have a great weekend!

[–]PPD-AngelIncel Ban Count: 9[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Be civil

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can you link the AskMen thread?

[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete25 points26 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm sincerely curious: what do you think a woman's motivation is to file a false report of rape?

Vengeance

Power trip

Validation

Sympathy from others for her victim-hood.

Attention seeking.

Escaping shame and or responsibility from a consensual act.

[–]Peter59308 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

My gf recently told me she'd taken a whole packet of diazepam in a suicide attempt; I rushed over to her place 2 hours away and found her grumping about in bed and eventually she admitted she'd just been angry and had over-reacted and had only taken 4 diazepam and had lied about taking a whole packet, but not before I'd agonised about whether to call 999 or call her daughter to go and check up on her and not before I blunted all her kitchen knives because she was threatening to slit her wrists.

People can be total drama queens and can behave completely irrationally because they get hormonal or have borderline personality disorder or just never learned emotional self-control and only think about themselves, and there have been plenty of cases where women have made false rape reports because they wanted to hurt a guy for whatever reason made sense at the time in their heads, and plenty more cases where they made a false rape report to save face when their boyfriend found out they'd cheated or their parents found them messing around and they had to come up with an excuse for how it totally wasn't their fault and they're innocent and pure while their conservative parents breathe fire over the whole thing.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

My gf recently told me she'd taken a whole packet of diazepam in a suicide attempt; I rushed over to her place 2 hours away and found her grumping about in bed and eventually she admitted she'd just been angry and had over-reacted and had only taken 4 diazepam and had lied about taking a whole packet, but not before I'd agonised about whether to call 999 or call her daughter to go and check up on her and not before I blunted all her kitchen knives because she was threatening to slit her wrists.

It's stories like these that make me let out a sigh of relief at being single.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Or that I married one of the most sane women in the galaxy.

[–]Peter59302 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My gf loses the fucking plot every few months; I've talked to her about getting counselling for it and she's aware that it's a thing that keeps happening but she just can't control herself and sometimes she wakes up with red bloodshot eyes and a sour lemon-sucking face for no reason besides her raging hormones and then she's looking to pick a fight all day and will oscillate between shouting and screaming at me and begging me to stay. She threw a vibrator at me one time and it smashed against the wall. You'd think I was beating her or cheating on her or something, but nope, she just gets really hormonal and can't keep a lid on her crazy girl feelings.

It's true what they say though, crazy girls are good in bed. They also do absolutely nut-fucked stuff like tell you they necked all their pills as mine did a few weeks ago or file false rape reports as others have done to other guys.

[–]LinkedFerret697 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One woman did it to not look "loose" in front if her crush after she slept with a guy. Some use it as a threat (if you do I'll tell them you raped me), and some just do it to easily remove someone from their life (high school girls did this to a guy). Those are the motivations I've actually seen.

[–]Peter59304 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

We can look at individual cases for insight into the motivations of the women making these accusations.

Jemma Beale

A fantasist who invented rape and sexual assault allegations against 15 men to get attention from her girlfriend has been jailed for ten years.

Beale’s first victim, Mahad Cassim, served two years and nine months in jail, while she received £11,000 in criminal injuries compensation following the alleged rape.

The court heard that she went on to make a string of false allegations that took up 6,400 hours of police time and cost at least £250,000.

Most lies began “impulsively” following drunken rows with girlfriends as she sought attention and to arouse jealousy.

Judge Nicholas Loraine-Smith, sitting at London’s Southwark Crown Court, told Beale she was a “very, very convincing liar” and “enjoyed being seen as a victim.”

Crazy be crazy.

Eleanor de Freitas

de Freitas became "severely" depressed and her behaviour became erratic, including claiming she was being followed and that her phone was being tapped and wearing a burqa when going out in public.[12][22] In September 2013, she was found in a branch of Co-op Food on Strand throwing crisp packets and shouting at staff.

A girl with bi-polar disorder who committed suicide when facing prosecution for a false rape accusation. Some people are crazy and do crazy things.

Sophie Skinner

Summing up the footage, Judge Daniel Williams said: "You ran over to him and hugged him. You ask him if he wanted to have sex with you in the public toilets. The CCTV could not have been clearer . You initiated sex with him and in the course of the sexual activity with him in the toilets you asked if he would be your partner.

"He said no because he had a girlfriend. When he gave in to your persistent demands for sex you told him you could get him into a lot of trouble. He took that to mean you would tell his girlfriend. I'm not sure that it was your intention at that time to make a false claim against him."

The court heard that about an-hour-and-a-half after having sex with Mr Osborne in the toilet, Skinner returned to the Wetherspoons, where she approached the door staff and told them she had been raped.

Who knows why she did it, besides being an awful person.

Rebecca Palmer

"Rebecca Palmer indulged in consensual sexual activity with the victim but on being rejected by him, embarked on a malicious campaign which led to him being arrested on more than one occasion and held in custody for periods of time," she said.

Ms Jakymec said Palmer had also "invented fake friend profiles and produced false correspondence hoping that these would be accepted as supportive evidence of her false claims".

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

Anna Costin

She said: "All of the allegations were thoroughly investigated and, thank goodness for the men concerned, they were able to prove their innocence and the falsity of the allegations but, obviously, with devastating consequences for them."

The men said the allegations had affected their relationships with women and led to them suffering abuse, lost sleep and needing medication.

Costin, who has previous convictions mostly involving harassment, has self-harm issues going back to childhood.

She also has attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, autistic spectrum disorder and borderline personality disorder.

Her difficulties led to impulsive attention-seeking behaviour, the appeal judges heard.

Another crazy one.

Jaqueline Barkley

Steven Anderson was wrongly accused of raping Jacqueline Barkley, 38, after he spurned her romantic advances - just a year after she made a claim of sexual harassment against her previous lawyer.

Mr Anderson had defended her at the trial, but found the tables turned when Barkley told police that he had raped her on the floor of his Edinburgh office on July 5, last year.

He added: "I defended her in a case where she was charged with harassing another female. At the time I had no idea I would end up on the receiving end."

Mr Anderson, who now runs his own firm in Glasgow, said that while he was preparing the breach of the peace court case for Barkley she sent him a sexy Valentine card and then an Easter card.

Although he was surprised he took no action - until love letters arrived several months later saying she could not help loving him and asked to be his girlfriend.

Crazy and rejected.

Saskia Hargrave

A woman has been jailed after she falsely claimed she had been raped to try to win another man’s affection.

During police interview, Hargrave admitted she fabricated the attack to gain the attention of a mutual friend, William Burrows.

Trying to make someone else jealous.

Nikki Yovino

Twenty-year-old Nikki Yovino, who police say had a sexual encounter with two players in Connecticut and later made false rape allegations so she wouldn't lose a potential boyfriend, was sentenced Thursday in Bridgeport Superior Court.

Police say Yovino, of South Setauket, New York, was attending Sacred Heart University in Fairfield when she reported being raped by two school football players in 2016, but later admitted making up the story.

Another case of a girl playing a fucked up game of 5D mind-chess that was somehow supposed to enhance her romantic prospects.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can also pick the 5 high profile cases that made the news in Germany -

  • Andreas Türck, a minor TV celebrity, got accused of rape by some woman (I think she worked in television as well, behind the scenes-stuff). While he was found guilty, he was never seen on TV again after that. The reason? She was simply nuts.
  • Horst Arnold, was accused of rape by a colleague of his and despite her report being full of contradictions, he was nevertheless convicted and had to serve the entire sentence without early release because "he didn't show any signs of remorse" (which would also have required him to confess in the first place). He died shortly after his release of heart failure. The reason? She was a psychopath with a long history of lying for every flimsy reason and in this case wanted to profit from him being sacked.
  • Horst Kachelmann, a swiss-born weatherman and TV celebrity, got accused by one of his long-term plates (in his case it was an apt description because he did indeed, well, "spin plates") of rape. While he didn't serve time, he was taken into investigative custody for several months (and let me tell you that the police wanted to find reasons to get him), and had it not been for his badass lawyer, he probably wouldn't have gotten found not guilty. The reason? The woman had been his plate for over a decade and wanted to pressure him into finally marrying her, and after he rejected her, she cooked up a false rape accusation because she wanted revenge.
  • Marco Weiss was accused of rape by an English girl he had hooked up with during his family's holidays in Turkey. It took around 1,5 years for him to get released. The reason? Her mother got wind of her precious daughter not being a good girl, and the girl in turn made the whole thing up.
  • Gina-Lisa Lohfink, a minor trash celebrity, had a consensual threesome with two guys who filmed the whole thing and then, when the flick got spread on the internet, claimed that she had been raped (despite the whole video showing beyond reasonable doubt that, you know, the whole thing was consensual). Didn't prevent a bunch of feminists and our motherfucking then-justice minister (one of the biggest assholes under the sun and an Adolf Eichmann-lookalike) whose job it would have been to serve justice to some #teamginalisa. Thankfully, the whole thing was thrown out by a (female) judge and the cunt got fined. The reason? Obviously she wanted to avoid appearing like a slut. Which she is.

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They ask for reasons and examples then are silent when you provide evidence.

The worst part is they'll still peddle BS because believing women are hurting men this badly is just implausible to them.

[–]kragshotDon't mind me...I'm just studying all of you talking monkeys....5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sincerely curious: what do you think a woman's motivation is to file a false report of rape?

Let's break this shit down and examine why this is a thing. I could go back through many periods of time to examine this but we can settle for the early to mid 1900s to illustrate the reasoning behind women using false rape accusations as a tool. There are two cases in particular that stand out in this light; the 1922 Rosewood FL massacre and the Scottsboro Boys case in 1931. What do both of these incidents have in common? Both ultimately came about because of women lying on men to cover up their own wrong behavior. In Rosewood, a White woman was cheating on her husband while he was away at work. When confronted with her behavior, she claimed that a Black man (allegedly named Jesse Hunter) raped her. In the Scottsboro Boys case, two White women that were hopping rail cars claimed that they were raped in order to keep from getting in trouble with the rail cops that were known for beating people caught traveling on the cars.

In each of the above cases, the women used the camouflage of victimhood to escape the consequences of their own behavior.

This motivation by women has not changed and persists to this day. As example, I present Biurny Peguro Gonzalez, Wanetta Gibson, and Heidi Jones. Gonzalez lied about being raped by William McCaffrey after being attacked and ridiculed by her female friends for ditching them to spend time with him. Wanetta Gibson falsely accused Brian Banks of rape as a means to divert attention when in fact, she was ditching class and engaging in illicit behavior herself. NYC weathercaster Heidi Jones used a false claim of rape by an ambiguous Hispanic man as a means to prevent her employers from punishing her for a recurring issue with tardiness.

On a side note; I was a victim of this kind of casual, yet malicious thinking by a similar woman that wanted to divert attention from her own perfidious behavior (in this case, a White woman having an illicit affair with a Black man).

Again, you have women using the specter of rape as a tool to avoid the consequences of their own actions. Between 1920 and now; nothing has changed.

Next, we have women using the fear of rape as a weapon to specifically punish some man that has wronged them or as a weapon of political convenience:

I want to cite two quotes from a Time Magazine article ("When Is It Rape?") discussing the issues surrounding false and/or weaponized accusations:

....Ginny, a college senior who was really raped when she was 16, suggests that false accusations of rape can serve a useful purpose. "Penetration is not the only form of violation," she explains. In her view, rape is a subjective term, one that women must use to draw attention to other, nonviolent, even nonsexual forms of oppression. "If a woman did falsely accuse a man of rape, she may have had reasons to," Ginny says. "Maybe she wasn't raped, but he clearly violated her in some way."

Then we have the infamous comment from Catherine Comins, (at the time) assistant dean of Student Life at Vassar:

She says angry victims of various forms of sexual intimidation cry rape to regain their sense of power. "To use the word carefully would be to be careful for the sake of the violator, and the survivors don't care a hoot about him." Comins argues that men who are unjustly accused can sometimes gain from the experience. "They have a lot of pain, but it is not a pain that I would necessarily have spared them. I think it ideally initiates a process of self-exploration. 'How do I see women?' 'If I didn't violate her, could I have?' 'Do I have the potential to do to her what they say I did?' Those are good questions."

The first woman is justifying the use of false rape accusations and the second is claiming that doing so can be of benefit to men. How the fuck is any man supposed to respond to that kind of thinking?

As for a woman seeking to harm an ex boyfriend, we have this case in Austin that just happened.

But anyway, the third reason and addressing your points particularly stems simply from a narcissistic desire for attention. We know without a doubt that there are people that will indulge in all sorts of behavior just for the sake of being the center of attention and (if only momentarily) and an object of sympathy. There are a number of cases where this has included false accusations. In fact, here's a number of such cases already posted in this particular thread; several of them illustrating this very type of behavior.

It is an established fact that some people will do wrong shit to other people if they can get away with it. A woman falsely accusing a man of rape is a low risk/high reward course of action almost guaranteed to net the desired result of harming the targeted male. It always has been under the right circumstances.

[–]lucky_beast9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sincerely curious: what do you think a woman's motivation is to file a false report of rape?

"I'm sincerely curious: what do you think a man's motivation is to rape?"

See, I can just as easily dismiss the entire nonsense in your comment. Because every single claim you make applies to you.

'Accuse a guy I'm mad at of rape' is not even on the top 1000 responses to being wronged that I'd consider, purely in terms of potential consequences incurred vs. potential for me to exact satisfying revenge.

"'Rape a girl' is not even on the top 1000 actions I'd consider, purely in terms of potential consequences incurred vs. potential for me to exact satisfying revenge."

If a man rapes and gets caught he risks up to life in prison.

If a woman lies about rape and gets caught she will face nothing, at worst a slap on the wrist. She will also have a dedicated group of supporters who will insist she was "only starting a conversation." She might even receive an award for bravery from the largest feminist organization in the country.

If I choose to frame it that way, and I do just as you framed your comment to be most convenient to you, then it becomes clear that a man has little to gain and an enormous amount to lose from raping someone. Whereas a woman has everything to gain and nothing to lose from lying about rape. Of course the truth is not so simple, but it's a far closer depiction of reality than your comment.

With the way the judicial system treats rape, with the way we treat rape victims as a culture and as people

You mean how it privileges them and lionizes them at the expense of the presumption of innocence because womens hurt fee fees are ultimately more important to you than men's lives.

Your comment is pure solipsism and wrong on every single point.

[–]mcmur6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

> I'm sincerely curious: what do you think a woman's motivation is to file a false report of rape?

Doesn't really matter what their motivations are. Not relevant. I don't know why people rape, murder or steal either but those things still happen.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cheated on BF, he found out. Claims rape.

[–]couldbemage2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I personally know someone that has falsly accused someone of rape. It was not a well considered decision. Which is the problem with your logical case. People do stupid shit all the time, particularly in the category of harming themselves while attempting to harm someone else when pissed off.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

what do you think a woman's motivation is to file a false report of rape?

One reason a woman would file a false rape report: She had sex with you and later regrets it for whatever reason and now she wants to hurt him.

[–]gasparddelanuit2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sincerely curious: what do you think a woman's motivation is to file a false report of rape?

There are a lot of unbalanced, stupid and wicked women out there. One should not think in terms of mentally sound or reasonable women when trying to understand the motivation behind false rape accusations. That's one of the problems with many women and men who blindly believe accusers. They think, well I wouldn't do that and no one I know would, therefore any woman who makes such an accusation must be telling the truth, #believewomen. Clearly, this is very bad logic and also puts into question how reasonable they are.

Based on the website below, when it comes to the motivation for making a false accusation, reoccurring themes appear to be attention, revenge or as an alibi.

http://register-her.net/home

[–]dejourPurple Pill Man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You may be different, but some women/people seem to thrive on drama and attention and sympathy.

I also think you are overestimating the cost of reporting a rape. Probably if you make a public accusation against a celebrity you'll face plenty of criticism. If you make a claim against a non-celebrity that seems to be contradicted by the evidence, then you'll face criticism and lose friends and support. However, if you make a credible claim that seems at least 50% likely to be true, then I think your friends and family will support you. You'll get more sympathy than criticism.

And even if you don't think that is true, isn't it possible that some women think it is true?

Lastly, I think that it doesn't work to assume people are rational and therefore they wouldn't do something wrong. I mean we can say, "Why would a man rape a woman? Surely it would be more pleasant to find a consensual partner. Or to masturbate. And then there are the downsides like risk of prison, risks of being killed or beaten up by the woman or her relatives." The sad fact is that stupid and evil people exist.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is an incredibly naive view of human and female nature. This is like saying “why would that guy shoot someone over a petty street beef? No one would throw their life away over something so pointless” when you are not from the type of environment where people actually do that.

No in most cases women will not be abandoned by her own circles for accusing a man of rape, this is a ridiculous falsehood spread by feminists in order to perpetuate and justify witch hunts .

The mans reputation will never recover from the accusation alone, it doesn’t have to lead to a conviction , men can still lose jobs, employment opportunities etc over this.

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Seems like a false accusation is a shitty weapon. I'd agree with you in almost all cases, except perhaps powerful woman and marginalized man.

[–]kragshotDon't mind me...I'm just studying all of you talking monkeys....1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's only a "shitty weapon" now because more and more people are starting to call out the bullshit behind it.

It has worked quite well for women for the last several millennia of human civilization....

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would just like to point out that in another thread today, when asked how a woman should deal with a creep on a plane, TWO women said, "oh, I'd make a false accusation that he was groping me and demand we change seats."

It's honestly terrifying!

[–]teramelosiscool1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

why would you assume a case that is thrown out to be true?? if anything you would assume false since, ya know, "innocent until proven guilty," or whatever... rape is horrible but taking every case that's thrown out (ie. no conviction) and counting it towards the 'real rape' accusations is retarded :/

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Retarded is the best word to use when describing feminism.

[–]benelijah0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a Wikipedia article that goes into depth on all the studies done on this. 2 percent is the lowest end of the spectrum. For example, according to the US Department of Justice and FBI stats (1997), it's 8 percent, way higher than false accusations about other crimes. According to UK Ministry of Justice research, it's 12 percent (though only 3 percent were malicious). It all depends on what you use to classify as "false." Many studies put it at around five percent. One researcher from Purdue University put it as high as 41 percent, with the primary motivations for reporting rape being alibis (I wasn't cheating) and revenge (he dumped her or did something else to annoy her). There are even higher estimations, but they may not be reliable.

In any case, according to Wikipedia, it is "generally agreed" that in 2-10 percent of the cases, a thorough investigation showed that there was no crime and that the accused was innocent. 10 percent is a LOT. That's one out of ten people accused of rape.

[–]red__aaron0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also something like 90% of rapes aren’t even reported (that’s for Australia); I’m too tired to do math rn, but even let’s say 10% of reported rapes are false, I’m pretty sure the number of unreported rapes is way bigger

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

This OP doesn't really have much substance. Can you explain what is misleading about the 2% stat? I haven't really looked into it much myself, I thought the mostly widely cited stat was 2-10%? And it came from several studies on the subject?

Rape is a crime that is hard to prove or disprove. The majority of cases are thrown out due to lack of evidence, only a few of them cases result in convictions, or are confirmed to be false reports.

Yeah mostly true.

Feminists are automatically assuming that every report which isn't proven false is true.

I have seen estimates, i.e. stuff like only 1 in x rape is reported, stuff like that, but I can't say I have seen anyone argue this.

I could easily flip this around and say that the majority of rape reports are false, because the majority of them are not proven to be true in court.

It sounds like you already understand the error in automatically equating no conviction with "must be false".

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 6 points7 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

They claim that only 2% of rape reports are false, therefore men should not worry about being a victim of a false rape report. The thing is, there are a lot of cases that are neither proven true or false, so we don't know what the actual number is.

only 1 in x report of rape is false

Can you cite those studies

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

The thing is, there are a lot of cases that are neither proven true or false, so we don't know what the actual number is.

Yes, that is correct. Like I said I am not really versed in the different stats here, but my understanding was that the 2-10(?) maybe it was 2-8 or something? I can't remember the range, came from some studies, it was an estimate itself. I guess my point is if you want to criticize that as a stat, what is your basis? It would help your OP if you would provide an explanation of the stat itself and then some argument as to why you believe it's misleading, like was the methodology wrong? is the data too old or not representative? Stuff like that.

Can you cite those studies

Studies on what? You changed what I said for what you quoted? I can't give you any studies on the stuff I've seen regarding "1 in x rapes are reported" because this just isn't a topic I have looked into much, I just recall seeing stuff like that, as estimates of unreported rapes.

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 7 points8 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

why you believe it's misleading

Are you simply not reading what I wrote?

When feminists tell men that worrying about false rape accusations is unjustified because only 2% of rape reports are deemed false, they are automatically assuming that any report not proven false is true. The actual number of false reports might be higher, there just might have been no evidence that they were false.

Not to mention that women might make public false accusations without making a police report, if this were counted then false rape accusations could be even more common.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

When feminists tell men that worrying about false rape accusations is unjustified because only 2% of rape reports are deemed false, they are automatically assuming that any report not proven false is true.

Where are you getting this from? Where does the 2-10% stat come from can you source it at least? I do not think it comes only from confirmed false reports - I thought it was an estimate based upon some studies.

I don't know that this sentence you wrote is true because I don't know where the stat comes from to begin with. Can you source it please?

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Here's a collection of studies.

You will note that the studies that cite lower rates of false reporting are indeed only counting cases that the police deemed were false, as opposed to cases that were thrown out.

Eugene Kanin's study is different, and it is of particular interest. I will not claim that it is representative of the US as a whole, because the scale of it was so small, but it does show that false rape accusations could be more common than we think. TL;DR, he studied rape reports at two Midwestern universities and a small Midwestern town, he chose them because according to him, their respective police departments were not short on resources or time and could look into these cases throughly. The requirement for a rape report to be deemed false was incredibly stringent: the accuser had to recant.

By this standard, he discovered that 41% of rape reports in the town were false, and a staggering 50% of rape reports at the universities were false. Now, perhaps the low crime rates in small towns might mean that a higher proportion of the reports are false, so that aspect of the study is not particularly relevant. However, the issue of sexual assault on college campuses is a hot topic right now, and this study showed that at two given institutions, false rape reports were incredibly common. It goes to show that it's incredibly stupid to #believewomen without evidence.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Ok so I just scrolled, looks like the wiki cites the 2-10% stat too, based upon some studies, cases that were "thrown out" shouldn't be included without more justification IMO. Although you will have to explain what you mean by "thrown out".

Some guy on the end found 90% that's bizarre. Looks like there's some controversy over how the data has been collected among the studies listed. I think I have read that too - doesn't look like there is a ton of consistency.

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

The ones with lower percentages are only counting cases that the police deemed false because they have evidence that it was false.

"Thrown out" just means that the case did not go to trial or a plea deal. Either the police don't press charges because lack of evidence, or the prosecutor drops the charges after the suspect is arrested due to lack of evidence.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

because they have evidence that it was false.

.....that is how we should assess it? As opposed to something more speculative? I'm not sure what you'd like to see here in this regard if that is troubling to you that they are trying to base it off evidence.

I guess we could do surveys like they do with some sexual assault/rape stats instead.

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Proving that someone lied about being raped is even harder than proving someone guilty of rape. That's why it's problematic for them to insinuate that any case not proven false is automatically true.

For the record, no, I don't believe that any case that doesn't result in a conviction is automatically false.

[–]dejourPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

To me the issue is that people who are saying 2-10% are false. It seems more true to say that 2-50% are false.

If I were to take a stab at a "best" methodology it would be to only look at cases that were false beyond a reasonable doubt or true beyond a reasonable doubt. See what percentage of those were false. Ignore the large number of cases that are possibly true and possibly false. (In the most cited studies the "maybes" are assumed to be true.)

Of course, there are still big problems with that. Maybe the ones that are "maybes" don't follow the same pattern as the ones that are definitely true or definitely false. But really, it has to give you a better estimate than assuming that all "maybes" are true.

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The 2% statistic was from a MensLib post I saw a while back, I'll try to find it.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks. Re-submit a comment to me if you find it so it pops up in my inbox.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This OP doesn't really have much substance. Can you explain what is misleading about the 2% stat?

Let me put it like this: I once read a report about the then-current rape verdict statistics in Germany (I thin it was 2014) Only around 8.5% of all trials ended in a verdict*. Applying feminist reasoning to this number would be like saying that 91.5% of all rape accusations are false.

Do you get now why the 2% number doesn't sit well with a lot of people?

*Unfun fact: Around a decade earlier, the # of verdicts was around 20%. I strongly suspect that shit like this did lead to lowered conviction rates.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Again, no one has shown this to be true. The 2-10% stat comes from actual studies what do you expect people to rely on? Saying the majority of rape reports which don’t end up in convictions almost be false is not the same logic. Thar means someone has taken “not pursued or not guilty” and automatically assume that means the alleged victim was completely lying about it. I fail to see why repeating the statistic that is most widely known that even Wikipedia cites as the best estimate of false reporting is utilizing the same logic.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

The argument from me is that in any given not guilty verdict, the accused is either guilty and got away with it or innocent and justice won. There is a non zero chance that every single rape trial is a false report. We simply have no idea how many cases are false reports or rapists that got away. I don't know why we even try and put a % either way.

Feminists refuse to believe that the guy didn't do anything wrong and that all not guilty verdicts are a rapist that got away with it. Any not guilty verdict is synonymous with a broken system.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

There is a non zero chance that every single rape trial is a false report.

Huh? You cannot honestly believe that.

We simply have no idea how many cases are false reports or rapists that got away.

Well yes, but "Not guilty" does NOT equal "false report" - false reporting requires intent, knowingly reporting something you know to be false.

Feminists refuse to believe that the guy didn't do anything wrong and that all not guilty verdicts are a rapist that got away with it. Any not guilty verdict is synonymous with a broken system.

Well I am a feminist and I don't agree with that. But I assume my opinion doesn't matter to you because I'm not a feminist whose opinion you can use as proof of something nefarious. However, I DO agree that the system isn't that great for things like date rape/rape with little physical evidence. Or for falsely reporting an incident for that matter (also a crime). But I'm ok with that because I think the consequences of altering it somehow to "fix" this issue are too great.

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

not guilty does not equal false report

And a report that isn't proven false is not necessarily true

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know.

[–]DevilishRogueKnows more than you1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

false reporting requires intent, knowingly reporting something you know to be false.

False reporting does not require intent - it can easily be a result of mistaken belief i.e. "If I had known he has a girlfriend I wouldn't have consented therefore it was rape".

I assume my opinion doesn't matter to you because I'm not a feminist whose opinion you can use as proof of something nefarious.

That you self refer as a feminist doesn't mean you conform to the definition of feminist OP is using. Lots of people who believe in equality call themselves feminists but they don't believe in Patriarchy and therefore do not conform to the definition most people interested in the subject tend to veer towards using.

I think the consequences of altering it somehow to "fix" this issue are too great.

It's better that a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man be punished.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

False reporting does not require intent - it can easily be a result of mistaken belief i.e. "If I had known he has a girlfriend I wouldn't have consented therefore it was rape".

Yes it does. I am referring to the crime. Not any old accidental mistake.

That you self refer as a feminist doesn't mean you conform to the definition of feminist OP is using. Lots of people who believe in equality call themselves feminists but they don't believe in Patriarchy and therefore do not conform to the definition most people interested in the subject tend to veer towards using.

Most people do not define feminist the way manospherians and anti feminists do.

It's better that a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man be punished.

Yes what did you think I was referring to? Did you understand what you were quoting there or are you arguing against that or something?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most people do not define feminist the way manospherians and anti feminists do.

Watch what they do, not what they say.

"If you believe in equality, you're a feminist" is one of the most disingenuous statements ever said.

[–]dejourPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'll agree that the crime requires intent.

However, imagine a rape occurred by a stranger and a woman mistakenly (but honestly) identifies the wrong man.

From the perspective of men who are concerned about being falsely accused, that would qualify as a false report.

It's not a crime, but from the perspective of a man who wants to know his chances of being falsely accused of rape, it is relevant.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh. Yeah that sucks but it’s not what I would call a false report. Mistaken identity. Also that happens and it’s not always the victim who testifies it’s him but other eye witnesses. Which is notoriously flawed as testimony in and of itself.

[–]LittleknownfactsVaguely Uncivil Comment0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Feminists are automatically assuming that every report which isn't proven false is true.

What makes you believe they are assuming this and not just excluding those cases from the 2% statistic?

[–]ianiemasns6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

By excluding them from the statistic, the deliberate intent is to imply that all other reports are true.

[–]Haste-Leans Red + Wants A Nuclear Family4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because they used this stat to fight against Kavanaugh in a way that would make it seem like there is only a 2% that the claims are fake and that he is probably a rapist because 98% is better odds than 2%

[–]neuk_mijn_oogkasVulva-and-tit-hating non-monogamous lesbian loner2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean whatever the incidence of false reports of any crime is; it's elementary to assume that that incidence is higher when people accuse a powerful political person.

There's little to be gained by making a false accusation against the baker of your town with no money; there is a lot to be gained politically by making an accusation against a powerful political figure so naturally in that case the numbers of false accusations will be higher.

[–]Haste-Leans Red + Wants A Nuclear Family1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. So many people fail to understand this though. Some family members were saying “well we should keep him from becoming a judge just in case”. Sooo you wanna give the radicals power by bending to their tears? This won’t go good for either side if so, anyone could just claim rape on a candidate they don’t like and boom they are off the government ezgg.

[–]Barneysparky0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

In many jurisdictions without signs of physical assault charges are not laid, unless the woman is the mayor's daughter, and blonde, and popular.

What constitutes physical assault? I know that every time I've been raped I've been left with painful then itchy lesions. That just doesn't happen with normal sex.

So there is that. Guys who discount physical signs of rape should take a shard of glass to their penis then wonder why sex was "regretted" after.

[–]Peter59306 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

How come you're getting raped so often?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

IMO "rape" to her means "bad sex".

[–]Barneysparky0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Got. I was an exploited child until I was 16.

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

My opinion. Two sentences. Makes claim. Mad at feminists. Boo hoo.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Savage!

[–]GuyWithTheStalker-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ohhhhh, for fucks sake...

I see your question and raise you this:

"How common is CTE among American adult males?"

[–]rufusocracy-2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Both your original post and the comments that follow are not really addressing the actual SOURCE of the statistic. That’s somewhat understandable because that debate is actually about mathematics and research that take place at the PhD level that most people don’t have training in, so most don’t understand the source of the controversy or what exactly it means.

Here’s a good article that is pretty straightforward and evenhanded in explaining the research without getting super technical about the math and research details: https://psmag.com/news/false-reports-of-sexual-assault-are-rare-but-why-is-there-so-little-reliable-data-about-them

Straightforwardly: There is no evidence that false rape reports occur ANY MORE OFTEN than false reports of ANY OTHER CRIME. Sure people make false reports of rape, but it’s rare, rare enough that the default assumption that it’s probably true, or at least credible enough to take seriously, for social purposes (if not legal purposes, as in conviction in a court of law) is not irrational. People can (and do) make false reports of ALL crimes. Rape is neither especially better or especially worse in that regard. The rate of false reports for rape is not statistically different than false reports of kidnapping, child abuse, drug use or selling, theft, etc. The rate of false reports for rape is somewhere between 2% of all reports and 10% of all reports, which is about the same rate as people calling up the police to falsely accuse their neighbors/family/friends/exes of anything else.

The most relevant portion of the article:

False reports are rare, ranging from 2 to 10 percent of all reported sexual assaults. This figure comes from a commonly cited 2010 study, published in the peer-reviewed international journal Violence Against Women. This meta-analysis evaluated more than 20 previous studies and concluded that most misrepresent the rate of false reporting by not accounting for police departments' mistakes. (The researchers also conducted their own study, based on 10 years of reports at a single university—rare for a field that relies on Federal Bureau of Investigation data—putting the rate of false reporting at just under 6 percent.) "The greater the scrutiny applied to police classifications, the lower the rate of false reporting detected," study author David Lisak writes. "Cumulatively, these findings contradict the still widely promulgated stereotype that false rape allegations are a common occurrence."

For those who dont know, a meta analysis is a special type of study that systematically and mathematically analyzes multiple studies conducted by other researchers to account for differences in definitions or statiatical procedures to discard outliers or faulty data and comes up with a broad statistic at the end. Its one of the “gold standard” types of research for population-level stats. You can click the link above and it will take you to the original study to read for yourself.

The article also explains the variation:

Why is there so much disagreement? For one, researchers relying on federal data often conflate "unfounded" reports—when law enforcement labels an accusation false or "baseless"—with entirely false ones. The FBI’s broad label of “unfounded” includes accusations that have been investigated and dismissed as not meeting legal criteria, without being proven false. This confusion results in inflated numbers ... —such as one debunked study that puts prevalence at 41 percent.

This won’t change the view of anyone solidly entrenched in their viewpoint, whether feminist or anti-feminist. And you could argue that people going straight for the low end of the range...the 2 percent instead of the 10 percent, or the 6 percent that’s in the middle and likely closest to the true stat...are making a judgement in a biased way. But so are the ones saying it’s worse or more prevalent than being falsely reported for theft or child abuse, or that it’s at 40 percent, or that the 10 percent that is likely a high enough number that believing victims’ stories is irrational. When you think the other side’s bias is worse than your own side’s bias without evidence, or with faulty evidence, you reveal your own irrationality to everyone. The “rational” blade cuts both ways.

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

there's no evidence that false rape reports occur more than any other crime

Do you not understand the premise of my post?

  • Feminists say we should believe women because only 2% of rape reports are false

  • That only includes ones where there was evidence that it was false

  • On the flip side of the coin, only a tiny percentage of rape reports result in a conviction

  • So the majority of these reports are neither proven to be true or proven to be false

  • It is wrong for feminists to automatically assume that all these reports are true

It's hard to prove that a rape did happen, which is why conviction rates are low. However, it's even harder to prove that a rape didn't happen, which is why confirmed false rape reports are uncommon.

[–]rufusocracy0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I do understand the premise of your post. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you can be persuaded by evidence and that you had a broad understanding of crime as it actually occurs and is processed by perpetrators, victims and law enforcement in America.

That’s why I didn’t say that there are many crimes, of all types, that occur but aren’t reported because the victims know that they wouldn’t be believed by police for various reasons, there is little evidence that would hold up in a court of law even if they were believed by police, or the victims misunderstanding the nature of the evidence they have. Those crimes are still crimes, even if they aren’t reported. As are crimes that are reported but aren’t investigated because police are lazy or overworked or just have higher priorities, or are investigated and believed by police but they know the evidence is unlikely to persuade a jury unanimously beyond a reasonable doubt as required by criminal law, which is an extremely high standard, and doesn’t mean those crimes didn’t occur either. That is true of thefts and abuse of all kinds, of missing persons cases that are really murders or kidnappings, of drug lords and fraud and scams of all kinds, not just rape. Frankly that is not a controversial point, most people just know that from living in the world and paying minimal attention, so I thought that goes without saying. As a result, all I said was rape is no different than these crimes. If you had a friend, or even a stranger, tell you that someone stile something valuable from them, or defrauded or scammed them out of some money, but there wasn’t enough evidence to convict them and the police didn’t take them all that seriously, you’d probably believe them by default. There’s no reason not to and that’s not implausible at all. If they said it happened to them multiple times or happened to their friend and so they didn’t bother reporting due to it not seeming to make a difference, that wouldn’t be suspicious either. Neither is a rape story that follows that pattern.

Therefore I am arguing: — The pool of all crimes includes a great deal of crimes that really happened but were not officially reported for a wide variety of reasons, many of which are very rational and understandable. — The pool of all reported crimes includes a small proportion that are falsely reported for malicious or vengeful reasons. — The pool of reported crimes that are not false reports still includes a significant proportion that do not have sufficient evidence to succeed in persuading a jury of 12 to unanimously convict beyond a reasonable doubt, the standard demanded by the courts for crimes (as opposed to civil court or other proceedings). Prosecutors may attempt to plead these crimes out without a jury, but generally do not take crimes without that high standard of evidence to trial. This occurs even if there is a preponderance of evidence that the crime took place and the perpetrator did it, or a probable standard of evidence, or even if the prosecutor simply believes the victim in their heart because it sounds plausible but they have no evidence other than personal testimony. This could also be due to police and prosecutors not doing their jobs right, but that doesn’t mean the crimes didn’t happen. — The pool of reported crimes that are not officially false reports still includes a significant proportion where the police and prosecutors could go either way. Of these, some of those certainly did happen and some could be possibly added to the pool of false reports, but the evidence is inconclusive. The default here is to not prosecute. That hurts victims of real crimes more than victims of false reports, in no small part because false reports of crimes often say a crime happened but did not finger a particular perpetrator (because a proportion of this group is for attention) so there is no real individual person who has been falsely accused. — In the end, a very small proportion of ALL crimes are reported, investigated sufficiently, determined to have enough evidence to go to trial, brought to trial, and convicted.

This is true, again, of all crimes. Murder, physical assault, theft, child abuse, fraud. Our system is designed at its core to believe that its worse to put an innocent in prison than to let a guilty person go free. It’s a lot easier to get away with a crime than to be wrongfully convicted of one, though it does happen. Some crimes are easier to get away with than others.

Rape is no different, except perhaps that it is one of the ones that is easier to get away with. To address some of your specific bullets: — Do not conflate the conviction rate at trial with the guilty rate of actual perpetrators. For ANY crime. Many crimes are unreported, many reported crimes are never prosecuted, and only a very small percentage of crimes even go to the trial stage at all. — The majority of MANY crimes, reported and unreported, are never proven to be true or false, including theft, child abuse, or even murder. That doesn’t mean they didn’t happen at all. If you treat rape differently than these other crimes, then you are being inconsistent, illogical and hypocritical. — Feminists do not “automatically assume all these reports are true,” as you state. Rather, feminists know that MOST reports as a group are true or at least plausible, and say that due to the nature of reporting and unreported crimes IN GENERAL and for rape in particular, when an INDIVIDUAL REPORT is brought to light it is rational to give the reporting person the benefit of the doubt BY DEFAULT and proceed as if it is true until proven otherwise for social reasons and for the purposes of the initial investigation, unless you have a rational, or specific procedural reason to believe to the contrary. — Given the statistics and crime in general it is not “wrong” but indeed rational for feminists to believe reports of rape by default. They know not all reports are true but statistically a majority of reports ARE true, so defaulting to belief for an individual report is not wrong.

Again, this is not in a court of law. This is for social reasons: continuing to associate with a potential criminal, giving that person benefits or promotions, or offering victims support. Does this get tricky with regard to, say, kicking someone accused of rape out of college, or denying them a promotion or hiring, for something without sufficient evidence to support a criminal conviction? Absolutely. Does it get tricky with regard to offering a friend or family member who says they were raped emotional support or affirmation, or other more material and psychological resources to help them recover? Not really no. It depends on what is being asked for.

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

if a friend claimed that they were a victim of a crime you'd believe them by default

No I would not, if I wanted to figure out for myself whether it happened or not I would consider a number of factors

  • The character of my friend, whether they are an honest person or not

  • The character of the accused, whether they are a good person or not

  • Consider any possible motives for lying, the most prominent one being revenge. If my friend had a bad relationship with the accused then that would be a major red flag.

  • If possible, I would ask the accused for his/her side of the story

all sorts of crime aren't investigated due to lack of evidence, not just rape

While this is true, rape has much lower conviction rates than most other crimes, because it is hard to prove.

statistically a majority of reports are true

How would you know that? Most rape cases are he said, she said, that's why so many of them get dropped. This is not true for most other crimes, which tend to have more evidence. Why are you trusting the word of the accuser over the word of the accused?

[–]rufusocracy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Because, sadly, rape is plausible. Very plausible.

Because anonymous surveys of men have somewhere between 5 and 14% on average saying that they would rape a woman if they knew they could get away with it, about 3 percent in such anonymous surveys admit that they have raped a woman at least once and some more than once. And that’s when using the specific word “rape;” when asked if they would “force or coerce a woman to have sex against her will” but avoiding using the word “rape” which has clear cultural implications and criminal implications, somewhere closer to 30% of men say they would (force or coerce a woman to have sex) if they knew they could get away with it. (It’s like asking someone if they would ever steal or commit theft, versus asking them if they would take something they wanted or needed that didn’t belong to them if they knew they could get away with it, to see if their answers change.)

That’s not a majority of men by any means, but with repeat offenders and from these respondents’ own admissions it easy to conclude that rape reports in general are plausible by default, even if an individual case you would need to evaluate the particulars for legal purposes or for those you know more pertinent details of.

I am not usually surprised or upset when someone is accused of rape and their friends and family give them the benefit of the doubt due to their knowledge of the person. That’s understandable, though less so if the accuser is also a family member or friend. But given the reality of the stats and the nature of the crime, it’s rational to give a person reporting rape the benefit of the doubt by default, at least socially.

For the purposes of this debate I am not arguing about the truth or falsity of particular rape cases, or the specific percentage of truth or falsity of rape cases writ large. I am arguing rather that feminists are rational to give those reporting rapes the benefit of the doubt by default for social reasons. You may disagree with their ultimate conclusion but that is contrary to the evidence because presumably you are more personally invested in not being falsely accused than in being raped and unable to get justice, which is a personal bias that is not supported by the data or the logic of the system. (In no small part because men are also raped and even less likely to report it for the same reasons as women with even less social support.) Legal convictions of rape are another debate, as are social consequences that affect the accused’s career and financial reality.

Feminists are not wrong to believe accusations by default; indeed it is imminently rational for them to do so.

[–]CanadianAsshole1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

between 5% and 14% of men would rape if they could get away with it

"If they could get away with it"

Legal and social penalties are a strong deterrent to crime.

Also, this may have something to do with a societal misunderstanding of the definition of rape. It is commonly taught in high schools and colleges that drunk people cannot consent to sex, and therefore drunken sex is rape. The truth is, most jurisdictions only consider drunken sex to be nonconsensual if the alleged victim was extremely intoxicated to the point where they can barely function.

force or coerced

The definition of sexual coercion is far broader than the definition of rape. Pressuring someone to agree to have sex with you without actually forcing yourself onto them would be considered sexual coercion. A woman lying about being on birth control in order to trick a guy into getting her pregnant is sexual coercion. To my knowledge, there have been no criminal charges laid in any of these scenarios.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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