TheRedArchive

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Society generally expects men to take care of themselves. That doesn't mean that a man can never ask for help, but at a certain point, people will just tell him to "man up" and do it himself. There simply isn't very much tolerance or sympathy for a man who doesn't put in the work himself to get what he wants. Being louder and more annoying about something won't get him anywhere or win him any favors.

Society on the other hand does not have the same expectations about women. Quite the contrary, society usually expects men to take care of women, and will often find ways to shame men for not helping them (like forcing a man to stand up or move to the back of the bus so a woman can sit down).

The reason why women seem to whine /complain / nag so often is because it works for them. Men learn very quickly in life that throwing temper tantrums and complaining about things only gets them so far in life. If they really want something, they either have to do it themselves, or decide that it's not worth it.

Women on the other hand very rarely have to make that kind of decision. If they can't (or don't want to) do something, they can just complain about it enough, around the right people, and someone else will do it for them. This is where their sense of entitlement and arrogance comes from, this is where nagging comes from, and this is why they get so upset when people don't go out of their way and treat them special all the time.


[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.65 points66 points  (96 children) | Copy Link

That type of thing does not really get you very far in terms of actual success in the real world, from what I have experienced. It doesn't get you a good job, it doesn't get you a good mate/partner, it doesn't help you achieve much of real value, it doesn't get people to do things for you of real importance in terms of achieving a genuinely successful life.

Additionally, I have known a few people like that who tend to just rely on others and play the victim all the time. Typically push comes to shove and they eventually get ditched by whomever is doing the heavy lifting.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 16 points17 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

That type of thing does not really get you very far in terms of actual success in the real world

I would have to agree with you here. I'm definitely thinking smaller things though like favors or help or asking for gifts from people.

There are some thing in society that do seem to be shaped by this though. Like consider the fact that there are more resources for female homelessness than there are for male homelessness, even though female homelessness is almost non-existent (whereas male homelessness is a pretty big problem), and I think you can see where societies "sympathies" lie. Same thing for domestic abuse resources (even though woman assult men more often than the other way around), the famed pussy pass, a biased legal system, etc etc.

It doesn't mean that a woman can cry her way into a better job, but it does mean she'll receive more support from people she knows when she's trying to change jobs (which is what I'm talking about in this post). It also means that if she's unemployed she has more resources available to her from nonprofits and the government and things like that. A man, in comparison, is pretty much left to his own devices most of the time.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.13 points14 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Your post is a bit inflammatory compared to how you’re explaining your position now.

I would not disagree that in general women are more likely to have people wanting to help them in some way (depending on the context of course) and they generally have more leeway with the whole “who is a bigger victim” type rhetoric depending on who you’re talking to - that might be changing (just see how much more common it is to see stuff about white males being persecuted for example).

I do not agree with the overall tone of your OP which to me reads that basically women can get pretty much whatever they want by crying and complaining.

[–]dakruNeither13 points14 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

that might be changing (just see how much more common it is to see stuff about white males being persecuted for example).

I still don't think that men's issues, especially (but not only) when white men are involved, are taken remotely seriously. The idea of men as victims or more broadly people who need or deserve help is still widely considered pretty alien. For example, your use of the term "persecuted" comes across as exaggeration with the effect of mockery—and I'd bet you're more willing than most people to consider men's issues.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Oh it's probably not among many people. But it seems to be gaining some ground to me.

For example, your use of the term "persecuted" comes across as exaggeration with the effect of mockery

Um no? This is how I have seen them frame the issue themselves....

[–]dakruNeither5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

"Persecution" is a really strong word that I don't think I'd apply to any group in the Western world, and I can't say I've ever heard someone use it seriously in this context.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I did not use that word to mock anyone and it's annoying you would even accuse me of such.

[–]dakruNeither6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think you're a pretty reasonable person and so it surprised me, which is why I specifically didn't say anything about your intentions. I described how it comes across and the effect I think it has.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great, I did not invent it, I have seen them use it this way.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I would not disagree that in general women are more likely to have people wanting to help them in some way (depending on the context of course)

This is basically the premise of my post. If you accept that people are more accommodating and more likely to help women, then it only follows that a woman will eventually learn (probably from a very young age) that she can complain or nag about things, and people will help her. As a result, her behavior is rewarded, and eventually this becomes a normal response for her. If she doesn't like something, she just has to complain about it. Show her frustration. Nag, beg, and plead until someone fixes it for her.

Men don't do these sorts or things (at least not as often) because it doesn't work as well for them. When a man complains about something, people tell him, "so what". When he asks or begs or pleads for something, people tell him to do it himself.

This then explains why men and women behave differently about these sorts of things.

I do not agree with the overall tone of your OP which to me reads that basically women can get pretty much whatever they want by crying and complaining.

Well like I said I was talking more about every day things like being frustrated when people don't do things for you (men generally don't expect people to go out of their way for them, so they don't get upset when it doesn't happen), nagging, yelling, etc etc.

Obviously you're not going to cry your way into a better job or convince someone to buy you a house or something (I mean I guess it does happen though -- your husband might buy a house for you, but that requires years of constant harassment and begging to convince him to marry you and buy a house for you).

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If you accept that people are more accommodating and more likely to help women

From a very general, non-specific overarching sense. That does not mean any individual woman is going to be successful or get what she wants by complaining or crying.

a woman will eventually learn (probably from a very young age) that she can complain or nag about things, and people will help her

Ok as a woman I did not grow up learning this....And your examples (homelessness, domestic abuse, etc.) do not necessarily translate into "all the things a woman may want." Nagging, complaining, isn't going to help me achieve success in education or pass a licensing exam or get a good job, etc. You are painting with too broad a brush.

When he asks or begs or pleads for something, people tell him to do it himself.

That is also too absolute of a statement. It depends on the context.

Well like I said I was talking more about every day things like being frustrated when people don't do things for you

You're all over the place - what every day things? Lifting heavy boxes? Reaching to the highest shelf? Sure, women have it easier with stuff like that.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

That does not mean any individual woman is going to be successful or get what she wants by complaining or crying.

Again I'm talking about smaller things like favors and things like that. You're the one that started bringing up things like employment which wasn't really what I was talking about (although I do think things like the pussy pass or lower / non-existent homelessness for women is a reflection of this, to an extent).

It's more an explanation about every day behaviors (nagging, complaining, entitlement, etc) than it is about larger social issues like what you're trying to get into.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You did not make clear in your OP what all you meant here so I would not be surprised if I were you if people comment to this post assuming you mean women can get what they want for all manner of things.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, I'm sorry? That's why I brought it up, like three different times with you.

You just see naggy / entitled woman all the time and I think this is why that is.

A man can't be naggy because it won't get him anywhere. It works though if you're a woman, which is why they do it.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I’m sorry too? I explained why you got what you got in my top level comment and it’s because your post isn’t very specific. And then you were a bit all over the place you jumped around from homelessness and domestic abuse to every day favors. S

I don’t see naggy/entitled women “all the time” compared to men who do nothing of the sort, that just isn’t my experience.

[–][deleted]  (81 children) | Copy Link

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[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.17 points18 points  (64 children) | Copy Link

No.

[–][deleted]  (63 children) | Copy Link

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[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.11 points12 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

If you are an attractive girl yes you have it easier in picking partners, if you’re comparing an attractive girl’s options to say an unattractive man’s then yes comparatively it is easier.

As to these “growing fields” who seek to prioritize women my understanding is that this is typically STEM type fields and is designed in general to diversify the workplace and it’s not just for women but minority males as well. Of course historically male-dominated fields is not necessarily the common denominator here, lest my field would be doing this and it does not except for a few employers who have secretly told me they prefer to hire women because they work harder (which of course is because of their belief it’s a better investment, not for any diversity for the sake of diversity motivations.)

Also it is not my impression that these efforts intend to compromise merit. I am not in stem though you tell me how hard it is to get a job in stem as a white male it’s not my industry.

[–][deleted]  (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

That is clearly dependent on context and cannot be said for the entire job market. In my industry, there are plenty of merit-based jobs but there still is nepotism, that does not mean that the entirety of my industry has little to do with merit or vice versa.

Also, we're comparing men to women in a vacuum, so I'm not sure why you're trying to bring race into the picture.

I am saying my understanding was that diversity efforts are also intended to help men. Just minority men. If we are looking at men/women in a vacuum then that includes minority men, who are still men.

I personally do not believe a single male alive today in the west would have worse dating or career prospects if they woke up tomorrow as a woman of equal ability.

I think this is just too simple of a way to look at it. I think there is probably more factors that go into this than just gender.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am saying my understanding was that diversity efforts are also intended to help men. Just minority men. If we are looking at men/women in a vacuum then that includes minority men, who are still men.

Minority men actually fair pretty poorly in society. Minority women on the other hand do pretty well nowadays -- maybe not on the same level as white men when looking at "equality of outcome", but there's really nothing in society holding minority woman back anymore.

Minority men though face widespread discrimination, have to put up with "Jim Crow laws" (aka the war on drugs), profiling, etc etc. Like on paper when you look at homelessness, drug use, incarceration, suicide rates, poverty, etc, minority men are at the absolute bottom of society, falling way behind minority women.

I think this is just too simple of a way to look at it. I think there is probably more factors that go into this than just gender.

If you take a man and turn him into a woman he will absolutely go further in life, assuming he has the same goals and ambitions that he had as a man (and doesn't explore other options that are available to him as a woman that aren't as a man -- like taking a less stressful job and subsidizing his income from a harder working man).

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

"Women" encompasses all women including minorities so I did not feel I needed to say both women and minority women*.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

In today's competitive workforces merit has little to do with whom gets hired, since a large amount of applicants can more than meet the requirements for these positions generously

What’s your proof of this?

[–]aznphenix1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also it is not my impression that these efforts intend to compromise merit

Yes, you should at least meet the bar of what we we want in an employee. Ideally we will also choose the best candidate for the job - a lot of what goes into 'hiring more women' is shifting where we start looking for candidates - women's colleges, women's conferences, etc.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

It is actually a lot easier for women to find work in STEM, and you don't even have to be good at your job to be hirable. Just put on you resume, Gender: Female and that's about all the qualification you need to get anywhere in the field.

To be clear I personally don't even really care that it's like this. I don't feel threatened and I think I have a good sense of humor about things. I just think it's kind of funny that people seem to think that STEM discriminates against women. Like clearly you've never worked in the field otherwise you'd change your mind real fast.

Now do we discriminate against minorities, and especially Indian people working in the field? Absolutely, no doubt about it. I mean I don't do it but it is pretty common. To think that people discriminate against women though is pretty crazy.

[–]aznphenix1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just think it's kind of funny that people seem to think that STEM discriminates against women.

As someone in the field - we're not of the opinion that women are actively discriminated against necessarily, but women are still a minority, diversity can have its own merits, and therefore it is worth hiring more 'minorities'. And it's not by hiring less qualified people, but shifting where we try to find our candidates.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

He got fired because he criticized management in front of the entire company. Go to work on Monday and send an email to the entire company saying that management is misguided and wrong and see how long you have a job.

He had a choice to handle it professionally. He could have asked for a meeting with management, and sat down and had a conversation about what he felt needed changing. He didn’t do that. He got what he deserved.

[–]PanderjitSingh_k4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

HR asked for feedback. He gave some directly and privately to them. Some months later feminists leaked it to the public and got him fired. It’ll take a lot of checkbox hires to make up for his loss. In fact they’ll almost certainly do more harm than good.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this5 points6 points  (40 children) | Copy Link

Must be why I'm only female software developer on my team.

[–]crackrocksteady7Jason tell me what you're chasing2 points3 points  (38 children) | Copy Link

You were probably less qualified than men in the resume stack

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this6 points7 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

Then why have they not hired more women than just me if they cared so much about diversity?

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

There's only one woman candidate for every 25 men?

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]crackrocksteady7Jason tell me what you're chasing6 points7 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Same reason why with all the diversity initiatives my engineering school cant crack 15% female undergrads, theres no way they can even pretend the applicants are cut out for it

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this1 point2 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

But I had about 50% women in my CS classes. Not in my math classes, but that's a different story.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We had about 10% as freshmen and literally no women graduating when I was a senior. They all either changed fields or dropped out.

[–][deleted]  (13 children) | Copy Link

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[–]PanderjitSingh_k0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Learned their lesson?

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Maybe she was qualified and she sounded less like a douche bro asshole than the other candidates and they were like yah man let's try something different.

[–]crackrocksteady7Jason tell me what you're chasing7 points8 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

software development

douche bro assholes

Aaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha oh fuck thanks for that

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I thought perhaps you were in a software development.

[–]Wandos7naproxen sodium3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Clearly he's unfamiliar with the term Brogrammers.

[–]crackrocksteady7Jason tell me what you're chasing3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yup dev team lead. Let's just say I am heavily defying stereotypes and call it a day

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

How so?

[–][deleted]  (14 children) | Copy Link

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[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

How so?

[–][deleted]  (12 children) | Copy Link

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[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

So you are saying a man who wants to bang a woman will act in a preferential way toward her compared to males he does not want to bang?

[–][deleted]  (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

So men put forth more effort when they want something from the woman compared to when they don't?

[–][deleted]  (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 46 points47 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

Actually, in practice, the opposite has been demonstrated to be true.

Particularly when it comes to the expression of anger, male anger is a legitimizing force while female anger makes the woman in question less persuasive and easier to disregard. Not because of differential expression patterns: in computer generated imagery paired with different gendered names.

This analysis is founded on the inaccurate assumption that female anger is treated as more legitimate than male anger. That is categorically not the case. Male anger 'works', female anger doesn't.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave16 points17 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Just commented about how my tall lawyer dad could always solve an issue where a company or someone tried to screw him over; once I (a friendly looking smaller woman) had to deal with things on my own, it can take days to solve things that for my dad would take a few minutes bc he’s scarier.

[–]insultin_crayon8 points9 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

This is true for women who have to deal with males in pretty much any facet of life. I am highly specialized in my field. I have a license to practice, hold many certifications, and have countless CE hours under my belt. It took WEEKS to convince this male that I needed a certain part installed on my anesthesia machine. I knew I needed it, but because of my sex, I was disregarded and disrespected. I finally convinced him to install it and put an order in through the vender who manufactures the machine. Well, the technician with whom I consulted instead did not submit the order. He never told me he didn’t do it nor did he consult me about it. He simply didn’t do it. Why? Because he thought I sounded “unsure” when placing the order. If I were a man that just would not have happened. Fuck, if it were legal I would just install the damn thing myself because it’s not complicated, but instead I’m at the mercy of some fucktwat males who assume I have the brain and decisiveness of a child because I am a woman.

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I believe you.

[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]insultin_crayon5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great job pretending you know how I handled the situation. I have no issues avoiding conflict with males. I had no issues voicing my concern with these particular males. But they had issues with me and did not take me seriously because of my sex. I have reflected for days on how this could have gone differently, on how I could have handled things differently. No. I am an adult woman specialized in my field of work, but was viewed as a child by males who make less than me, know less than me, and will probably never amount to more than their sales position

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Oh for fuck's sake. You're just loaded with hostile assumptions here. You just proved r/insultin_crayon's point.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

As if your experiences somehow invalidate hers? Holy shit we'd (me included) go to war if a woman tried to talk over you like you just tried to talk over her.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When even a Men's Rights Activist is telling you that your interpretation of her account was so over the top with negative assumptions to be downright petty and mean-spirited, maybe you should at least be open to criticism?

[–]figyg-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Do you speak with a lot of vocal fry? Women who speak with those intonations are generally more discriminated against in professional settings, and I would argue rightfully so

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Worst. Post. Ever.

At least for today. But the day is young. I'm sure you'll have plenty of competition soon.

[–]figyg0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you purposely talk like a 12 year old, you should be treated like a 12 year old

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can't treat you like you act because the mods would come down hard on me. Oh well.

[–]figyg1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Aw you're too kind 🤗

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've found this to be true irl. In practice giving people the benefit of the doubt and addressing things in person to get resolution or assistance works best. Pretty sure people like the OP would view that as hypoagancy or playing damsel or whatever other derogatory term they can make work for simply not being a screechy bitch. I only use anger when I don't care about the outcome but feel wronged enough to make it known.

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed: angry men are assertive or sometimes threatening, angry women are hysterical bitches.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It’s not usually “anger” being expressed by women complaining, it’s whining, frustration, tears, fear etc.

Even the game faced “can I speak to the manager” bitch is rarely red in the face yelling and shouting.

So this study of yours doesn’t have much relevance and your statement that “this post is predicated on female anger being taken seriously” is wrong.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

game faced “can I speak to the manager” bitch

I think it's equally telling that these sorts of people are usually women, not men (and usually white at that -- minority women usually aren't as entitled about things like that).

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

These are my observations as well

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 3 points4 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

People definitely detest this behavior from woman. In fact it's probably one of the biggest complaints that a lot of men have about their wives and girlfriends (and might even be a motivation to a lot of people to keep women happy).

But in the real world this behavior works. If a man breaks down and cries in front of people, people resent him for it. He learns very quickly to suck it up and figure things out on his own. If a woman does the same thing though, people run to her aid and try to help her. All she has to do is show that she's upset about something, and people will either try to help her, or take it out on whoever might have "wronged" her.

[–]petrichordiummidsommar pill27 points28 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

This really does not jive at ALL with my professional experiences as a man in either finance or architecture. I have seen male displays of anger / frustration that SHOCKED me with how ridiculously overdone and histrionic they were, and i was deadass certain (when younger) that such things would toast someone’s professional standing. Yet no! At most masculine histrionics are treating as a “missing stair”, and they can even be beneficial if the man has enough status.

Women may be “accommodated” temporarily if they either get “shrill” or “weepy” but the woman will have lost status, respect, deference. And ya know? I’ve seen way less weepy or ridiculous behavior from women professionally. They get it.

Just bc individual men can be total heeled puppies to the woman in their lives who hold the Pussy Card over them does NOT mean this attitude translates to universal treatment.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Women may be “accommodated” temporarily if they either get “shrill” or “weepy” but the woman will have lost status, respect, deference. And ya know? I’ve seen way less weepy or ridiculous behavior from women professionally. They get it.

I don't see why this matters though. By yelling and nagging and complaining, she is being rewarded by people going out of their way to fix things for her. You're talking about women displaying anger and saying that people don't respect that out of a woman, or that men display anger more often (which may or may not be true), but that's really a separate issue entirely.

[–]petrichordiummidsommar pill23 points24 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You really don’t get it dude: showing excess emotion professionally SIDELINES women. Any sympathy they get in the moment is outweighed by the fact that they are no longer given responsibility or treated as experts even if their opinions are worthwhile and more informed.

Meanwhile the dude next to her can pound on tables, ask questions and interrupt people WHILE they are answering them, and just generally display a grand prix of asshole tendencies. At worst ppl will see them as “hotheaded” but it can even work in their favor. The only time I’ve seen a man held accountable for ridiculous professional behavior is when an accountant physically attacked his superior over quarterly reporting. (If he’d been in Acquisitions he might have stayed fine lol).

You truly have this particular cognitive bias ASS Backwards in a professional context, and it’s only your triggered feelz about sex (which you probably think of as a righteous rationality) that is preventing you from seeing this.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] -2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You really don’t get it dude: showing excess emotion professionally SIDELINES women. Any sympathy they get in the moment is outweighed by the fact that they are no longer given responsibility or treated as experts even if their opinions are worthwhile and more informed.

This might all be true but it doesn't change the fact that an emotional woman is more likely to get help than an emotional man is. Even if it sets her back in the future because people come to resent her, in the present moment she gets rewarded for it, so she continues doing it in the future.

And besides, we're not even talking about being emotional to begin with. We're talking about nagging, complaining, acting entitled, etc. Yelling and throwing a temper tantrum is only one part of the story yet you keep trying to narrow the discussion down to only that.

I get that you have some strong opinions about that topic and obviously have a lot that you want to say, but that is not what my post was actually about.

[–]OfSpock10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Only if you define 'comfort' as 'help'. She will be assisted to calm down, not given what she wants.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nag someone enough or complain about something enough and somebody will eventually do something about it for you (if you're a woman, anyway).

[–]FimTown0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My office manager nags me every month about getting my expenses submitted. Like all men, I just do not respond to nagging. I'll cut my nose off to spite my face on this shit. I am (fairly) consistently the last report submitted every fucking month.

Truth be told, I'm usually busy doing important shit but even on the month-ends that I am not? I still put it off just to fuck with her. Despite that? Nearly fifteen years of this game (and so many others); bitch would show up to help me move if I asked.

Be good at your job and don't take shit from people that nag or employ otherwise childish tactics. Frame. Fucking. Matters.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

'Anger' and 'crying' are different things. Your post describes the female behaviors you think are rewarded as 'yelling and complaining'. Has the evidence I've presented changed your view on that?

[–]philomexaIF THE POISON WON'T TAKE YOU MY DOGS WILL12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If a(n attractive, young, sexually viable) woman does the same thing though, people run to her aid and try to help her.

No one gives a fuck if some 20-30-pounds-out-of-shape, hard drinking, raspy voices, unfeminine, loud, coarse, 50 year old single mom of 2 breaks down and cries in front of people.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually I saw this happen not too long ago at the DMV.

Some guy made this woman cry, I think he broke up with her or something (although I'm sure there was more to the story), and a bunch of people were trying to figure out what was wrong, with one guy there ready to fight her ex "if he comes back".

She looked like she was a drug addict or something, definitely not "attractive" in any stretch of the word.

[–]crackrocksteady7Jason tell me what you're chasing0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Wrong

[–]philomexaIF THE POISON WON'T TAKE YOU MY DOGS WILL8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

well, you sure convinced me. /s

[–]crackrocksteady7Jason tell me what you're chasing4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean I presented just as much evidence as you lol

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol you say that like all women do that.

Some of these posts are straight up cringe man. So obvious when people just straight up never interact with women.

[–]Hayley_423 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

hey, way to generalize! Regardless of gender, I’m sure at a certain age it’s frowned about and seen as very immature.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Labor and welfare statistics pretty well show that this isn't true.

Obviously it crosses genders but it's no real secret that woman tend to be more demanding and naggy about things (expecting other people to do things for them) than men are.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men suffer the most from "emotional labor" in a relationship. It seems from women being emotionally less mature than men, and trying to dump all of their emotional baggage on other people instead of dealing with it themselves like responsible adults.

[–]TheBookOfSeilCuckleberry Finn3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

In a lot of instances, women don’t have to yell or complain because there is always some guy willing to enable them/give them what they want so he can increase his chances of sleeping with them.

If anyone is to blame in most of the “this is how women are” argument, it is thirsty guys looking for sex.

Guys, take back your dignity and start saying no to women.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Guys, take back your dignity and start saying no to women.

Si se puede

[–]ThisIsJustATr1buteHas what plants crave5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My dads a big scary lawyer, whenever someone tried to jerk him around he just talks to them and they immediately fix it. I am a nice looking woman and it takes a lot more effort to fix things when I’m getting screwed over. People pass me off to others and blow me off.

[–]VermiciousKnidzzBlue Pill Man6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Being louder and more annoying about something won't get him anywhere or win him any favors.

i think it does. being louder is usually associated with masculinity. its also something men do to be intimidating. its just when women do masculine things they're seen as annoying.

i think people liked trump so much 'cause he was the loudest person in the room.

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]__Some_person__1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wish there were some studies on black female aggression. Always wondered if the stereotype is just made up or based on real life

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well a lot of black women are particularly bad about nagging and complaining in my experience.

They don't do the white people stuff about "asking for a manager" and all that but they're usually pretty vocal, maybe moreso than an average white girl.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe I'm just seeing it terms of relationships with black girls. It is usually white women that are demanding in public, but black woman definitely are in private.

[–]madcockatielAlpha Bird, Slayer of Cloaca2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This kinda breaks down when you take a step outside and notice that men are often just as entitled and arrogant as women, if not more so. Where’s their bad attitude coming from, if they’ve all been humbled by their service to the female imperative?

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

forcing a man to stand up or move to the back of the bus so a woman can sit down).

No one does this is any east coast city unless the woman is pregnant and even then maybe not.

What’s with all the posts today insisting that women have to be taken care of by men? Like if you all say it enough the rest of us will start believing it?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cause and effect. You got it wrong, OP

[–]thepessimisticpixiePurple People eater1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this, but damn there sure are some whiny ass men out there too, more women tho

[–]Eartherry4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The difference is justification. Women justify their motives, men refuse. So if she has a good reason for what she's asking for, and explains why, others can make an informed decision as to whether they should comply.

Refusing to give any justification leaves others to come to their own conclusions not necessarily based on the truth. It gives the impression that one is being given orders, especially enraging if it's not coming from an authority figure.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I could see that.

The other side of the coin though is that women are simply better at it than men, probably because of years of practice and encouragement from society.

Men focus on learning how to do things, women focus on learning how to get other people to do things for them.

[–]Eartherry0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Men focus on learning how to do things, women focus on learning how to get other people to do things for them.

Going to someone who knows more about how to fix your problem and offering something in exchange for their help isn't the same as just getting other people to do things for you. You're describing commerce itself, you know that right?

The other side of the coin though is that women are simply better at it than men, probably because of years of practice and encouragement from society.

Better at buying things? Practice with purchasing? Encouraged to shop? WTF?

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Going to someone who knows more about how to fix your problem and offering something in exchange for their help isn't the same as just getting other people to do things for you. You're describing commerce itself, you know that right?

What do you think they're offering though? Sex? Shame (for being the bad guy and not helping a poor, innocent women)? Or is the incentive to get them to shut up and stop nagging so you can have some peace and quiet?

The situation that you're describing is what normally happens between men. The problem with women is that they expect things essentially for free, without putting in any work or anything like that.

[–]Eartherry0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or is the incentive to get them to shut up and stop nagging so you can have some peace and quiet?

TIL businesses don't want my money, they want me to shut up.

The problem with women is that they expect things essentially for free, without putting in any work or anything like that.

It's not free, she worked for the money she uses to pay for services.

I don't think we can understand one another, not as long as you can't grasp that women make their own money these days.

[–]panzershark1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Some of the points you've made are true, but yelling and complaining will only get you so far, and even then no one will respect you for it. They may help you because they feel obligated, but everyone knows that you did nothing of value to get where you are. It's a shallow existence.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It might not work very well in the long run but it does go a long way to explain the actual behavior.

Ie, "Why do women nag and complain so much?"

Because people pay attention to them and fix things for them. If you're a man, it's a fruitless effort, but if you're a woman, it gets you somewhere.

[–]Hayley_425 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you’re an attractive woman you mean? I don’t believe conventionally “ugly”women join in on the same benefits of whining.

[–]panzershark1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

^ This. I think this goes across the board for a lot of the 'benefits' women derive in society. Above-average - attractive women are the ones who mainly benefit. If you're ugly, you may as well be invisible.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's the typical comeback but I don't think it has anything to do with attractiveness.

Sometimes uglier girls are actually worse about it, almost like they have the female version of a nepoleon complex.

[–]panzershark1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To be fair, I think in a lot of settings (mainly in the workplace) men also don't have to go as far as "nagging and complaining" because their opinions are valued much more than a woman's. They never have to resort to 'nagging' because it's easier for them to get their way. Even in a female dominated workplace, women will value a man's opinion over a woman's a good chunk of the time.

Socially, outside of the workplace is a different story.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

[removed]

[–]allweknowisD0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

men are less comfortable with complaining

Dude, you’re on Reddit and you just non-sarcastically said those words. Are you observant at all?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Anonymously on the internet is different from doing so in the public sphere, where all the decisions get made and the benefits handed out

[–]allweknowisD0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Media is a massive influencer. If you think doing things like making forms or posting things etc doesn’t influence anything then you’re wrong.

Gamergate started online, this stupid new IRS complain started online and tons of people are getting on board. A lot of things can come from the internet.

But if you’d like to move goalposts now to it only being in public then sure. Although can’t said I lack in seeing men complain in public either

[–]nemma8830/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I always associated nagging with someone who is trying to deal with lazy or avoidant behavior in someone else. I thought majority of nagging is repeating a request or the person lacks proactive actions which seem like common sense to the nagger.

Like my partner only nags me if I'm procastinating on something. If you don't want to be nagged don't be a person who has to be asked twice?

I get some people are just serial nagger for no good reason but I think RP ideals probably fit into this well, if someone's nagging look inside before outside first. Or, harsh RP would be she resents having to tell you how to be the man in the relationship.

But changing spots and all that, I don't think nagging helps in long run, there's just so few a options. You can do it for them. You can ignore it. You can nag more.

[–]1saidy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Totally agree. When I was at my old job, there was this lady that would always shout and get things done. It worked for her. She managed to climb the ladder just by being abusive to those under her.

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Well ya, when you spend your whole life being treated like a child you keep trying to manipulate people through being a whiny crybaby. Just like a child does.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

So the solution to that is stop coddling women. Which means part of the problem is men's fault.

Let's take responsibility for our contribution through aiding and abetting women who behave like this.

[–]Ultramegasaurus0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Won't happen until the imbalance between male and female desire for one another is not removed.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Now that's a problem that men can do something about. Reduce the demand and the imbalance and then we can be more successful.

[–]Oncefa2SJW[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think there's always going to be a desire for women to "take the easy way out" in life and use men for their own advantage.

If that means playing hard to get to create artificial scarcity and molding social norms in favor of women, then that's what will end up happening.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep, and when a man ignores her nonsense they will knock it off pretty damn fast

[–]TedescheMRA0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bravo! This is the empathy gap in action.

[–]aretournerPPD = mimophant party0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

PPD: Where whiny little bitches come to whine about different whiny little bitches.

[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The reason why women seem to whine /complain / nag so often is because it works for them.

With weak men.

Alpha never cared about or caved in, because let's face it, nothing force them to endure such abuse.

I bet even women hate themselves when they do this.

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women don't have the same coercive power as men. Historically, they have been less able to physically force their will onto others. In absence of this kind of power, one would naturally think other methods would be needed.

[–]CatchPhraze-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Nah, it's cause most men are taught that woman serve them, hence the unfair portion of housework and childcare done by woman even when both people work 40 hour work weeks.

The only way to get a lazy man to actually clean up after himself, or remember to pack the kids lunch, or stop playing COD to go pick up dinner, is to nag, because saddly men are not great self motivators.

Or every person is just different and people handle each situation with the with the interstices that it requires.

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

because saddly men are not great self motivators.

I have learned that about the best you can hope for is one who will do what's asked of him without making a fuss or getting all passive-aggressive and half-assing it in the hope you won't ask again.

That's about as good as it gets.

[–]CatchPhraze0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's actually a thing my dear fiancé foolishly admitted to me. He used to fake complete incompetence when his mother asked him to do chores around the house in an effort to get out of them. So now instead of helping him when he does the same thing to me I tell him to just youtube it.

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL, my lady boss overheard her husband and his workmen advising one of the younger guys to do this when he gets married, in order to get out of having to help his wife around the house. She was mad as hell but I just laughed. Guys will be guys ...

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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