You have no real foundational evidence that dismisses any point that I have made.

To be fair, most RP methods don’t have foundational evidence that they do work. I think you have a lot more to prove than I do, but I will answer your questions anyways.

Your "RP horror stories" claim actually supports my stance. These all come from men that are "failed RPs."

I mean this sounds like the “no true Scotsman” fallacy. Where every bad thing that RP has been known to do is brushed off as “they aren’t true RP’ers”.

So when you have a bunch of men rushing in looking for a "medicine show in a bottle solution" for their dating woes (which is what a lot of PUA and RP things have become as of late), they are going to end up at a loss. These failures are exactly what you all are seeing.

Well RP is based on the old PUA crap which was the dating equivalent of “get rich quick” schemes. They use basically all of the same research and core ideas based on crap EP research. So it isn’t like they are completely separate things no matter how like to try to state that RP is beyond that. They use the same bad research and have the same core ideas.

But the core principles work because they have been proven to work already.

Except this isn’t true. Most MFT psychological research goes against RP ideas. I guess you can say certain things kind of work, but at the same time they enforce and encourage really bad traits that are negative traits for dating and healthy relationships. I will explain further.

One example is dominance in RP. Dominance is one aspect that is pushed in a lot in red pill advise columns and forums. It seems to work for members because most people that join RP tend to not be assertive at all. So while becoming more dominant, new RP members tend to increase their assertive actions also. Assertiveness in an attractive trait to women and lack of assertiveness in unattractive. So technically it helps them a bit, but unfortunately there is a difference between assertive and dominant actions.

Even though a timid person might do better with this advise than he did before, it still doesn’t mean it is good advise. Dominance is actually shown to be a negative trait when it comes to attraction. Dominant personality traits also tend to correlate with abusive actions in relationships as well as many other social issues. While the person might be more attractive than he was before because he now shows some assertive qualities, now the person has new negative traits of dominance. If that same person used good advise that just worked on increasing assertiveness instead of dominance (which most other good dating advise does), he would have been much better off.

There are a lot more examples I can talk about also where similar things happen. RP likes to promote dark triad personality traits, which overall effect a person negatively. It only seems to work since it sometimes brushes up against other advise that happens to work.

We're already living in a world where evidence is ignored in favor of feelings, so you're doing nothing wrong according to the current paradigm.

What? This isn’t true in the scientific community. I know. I had to publish research. It was a long process. Many of my colleagues were doing research on somewhat provocative work also. The university boards didn’t care if the work was provocative, but only cared if the research had good methodology and showed accurate results. The reason why EP research (the research that RP is based on) is not accepted by most aspects of the scientific community is not because it is controversial or politically incorrect. It isn’t accepted because it has garbage methodology and mostly is proven to be wrong.

For every guy out there "slaying pussy" as the term goes;there are two others just using what they learned just so they could go on normal dates unlike what they were doing before they adopted RP tactics because that is all that they wanted in the first place.

Do you have any evidence that there are people like this out there? I am not talking scientific evidence, but even some RP celebs would work. Anything.

I take that claim with a grain of salt. Firstly because this statement has no actual backing, and also because this is the same thing most scam groups claim when people notice their advise doesn’t actually work. Most “self-help” scam groups always claim the exact same things you are claiming. When people from every “get rich quick” scheme are asked questions about why most everyone that reads their book isn’t rich, they normally have a similar response. “The people who aren’t getting rich aren’t doing it right and there are two people for every one that fails”. But this a non-testable hypothesis and most people tend be failing. They just state that because the other person technically can’t prove them wrong but at the same time they have no evidence to prove it right. Why aren’t there more success stories? Why are success stories so few and far between if they really exist in big numbers at all?

Okay...what are they? What other dating/relationship ideologies out there included confidence-building, fitness/nutrition/wellness, fashion/grooming/hygiene info, and a core psychology that for once, focuses on developing the male psyche for his own benefit, rather than the benefit of everyone else's?

I mean, most all dating advise includes confidence-building, fitness/nutrition/wellness, fashion/grooming/hygiene info, and a core psychology that focuses on developing the male psyche for his own benefit. But I am guessing you want more specific examples.

I mean, if you want the best stuff there is a whole field of psychology that studies this in MFT psychology. It is an entire field of psychology dedicated to studying relationships and doing counseling and therapy for people who struggle with finding and maintaining healthy relationships. Their advise isn’t just coming out of their ass but also is backed by really quality research. They also know a lot about self-improvement since they normally have classes in understanding healthy human development.

But if you want more informal advise that is still good, I would suggest to you to follow the dating advise from “art of manliness”. That is a great website and group with really good moderation that has good articles on embracing your masculinity. They publish great articles with really solid advise that works specifically on male centered self-improvement. They also have dating columns with great information on how to be more successful in dating in a masculine manner that is healthy. I would check that out.

Honestly EHarmony or zoosk advise is better than RP also. They also enforce having good hygiene, dressing well, having hobbies, but they also enforce and try to encourage good communicative skills which RP tends to not do. Though I know most RP would hate those sites. I know that RP would hate those sites since those sites actually care about the ideas and opinions of women and don’t treat women as less than human like most RP advise does. But it is important to look to the benefit of both men and women in dating and RP completely lacks this. Good relationships form out of mutual respect and care for each other. If you don’t look at the other side of the picture when dating, you are missing a lot.

There are already a bunch of confidence-building strategies out there. Weightlifting-based fitness programs with nutritional tactics for gains is already a thing, as is focuses on male fashion, grooming, and hygiene.

You aren’t convincing me of why you chose RP if even you agree that these strategies are found elsewhere (and normally are better elsewhere).

PUA has existed for decades and despite the countless attempts to discredit the core principles, it's still out there and it still works when done correctly.

Not a great argument. Groups like Flat Earth theorists, anti-vaxxers, moon landing conspiracy groups, and anti-climate change groups have also been discredited but still have people flocking to them. Just because it has been discredited doesn’t mean people won’t be ignorant enough to believe them. There is also a reason why PUA, RP, and the “research” they claim is true is not accepted in the scientific community.

Also again, while you Think it works, it only does so because it sometimes brushes up against things that might help someone who is completely incompetent. And again it also also enforces and teaches a lot of traits that negatively affect attractiveness and relationships.

RP takes all of those things and puts them together in a cohesive format

It also has little and poor moderation unlike other places that also compile this advise which causes a lot of misinformation and garbage. Still not a good reason to also deal with the rampant misogyny and poor research. It also takes advise from all around and misuses and skews it to fit their ideologies.