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Excerpts: (I recommend the whole article but it is pretty long)

Over the past few years, Jean M. Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University, has published research exploring how and why Americans’ sex lives may be ebbing. In a series of journal articles and in her latest book, iGen, she notes that today’s young adults are on track to have fewer sex partners than members of the two preceding generations. People now in their early 20s are two and a half times as likely to be abstinent as Gen Xers were at that age; 15 percent report having had no sex since they reached adulthood.

Fisher, like many other experts, attributes the sex decline to a decline in couplehood among young people. For a quarter century, fewer people have been marrying, and those who do have been marrying later. At first, many observers figured that the decline in marriage was explained by an increase in unmarried cohabitation—yet the share of people living together hasn’t risen enough to offset the decline in marriage: About 60 percent of adults under age 35 now live without a spouse or a partner.

Over the course of many conversations with sex researchers, psychologists, economists, sociologists, therapists, sex educators, and young adults, I heard many other theories about what I have come to think of as the sex recession. I was told it might be a consequence of the hookup culture, of crushing economic pressures, of surging anxiety rates, of psychological frailty, of widespread antidepressant use, of streaming television, of environmental estrogens leaked by plastics, of dropping testosterone levels, of digital porn, of the vibrator’s golden age, of dating apps, of option paralysis, of helicopter parents, of careerism, of smartphones, of the news cycle, of information overload generally, of sleep deprivation, of obesity. Name a modern blight, and someone, somewhere, is ready to blame it for messing with the modern libido.

From 1992 to 2014, the share of American men who reported masturbating in a given week doubled, to 54 percent, and the share of women more than tripled, to 26 percent. Easy access to porn is part of the story, of course; in 2014, 43 percent of men said they’d watched porn in the past week. The vibrator figures in, too—a major study 10 years ago found that just over half of adult women had used one, and by all indications it has only grown in popularity. (Makes, models, and features have definitely proliferated. If you don’t know your Fun Factory Bi Stronic Fusion pulsator from your Power Toyfriend, you can find them on Amazon, which has these and some 10,000 other options.)

These messages are echoed and amplified by a Salt Lake City–based nonprofit called Fight the New Drug—the “drug” being porn—which has delivered hundreds of presentations to schools and other organizations around the country, including, this spring, the Kansas City Royals. The website NoFap, an offshoot of a popular Reddit message board founded by a now-retired Google contractor, provides community members (“fapstronauts”) a program to quit “fapping”—masturbating. Further outside the mainstream, the far-right Proud Boys group has a “no wanks” policy, which prohibits masturbating more than once a month. The group’s founder, Gavin McInnes, who also co-founded Vice Media, has said that pornography and masturbation are making Millennials “not even want to pursue relationships.”

When I spoke with Wade recently, she told me that she found the sex decline among teens and 20-somethings completely unsurprising—young people, she said, have always been most likely to have sex in the context of a relationship. “Go back to the point in history where premarital sex became more of a thing, and the conditions that led to it,” she said, referring to how post–World War II anxiety about a man shortage led teen girls in the late 1940s and ’50s to pursue more serious romantic relationships than had been customary before the war. “Young women, at that point, innovate ‘going steady,’ ” Wade said, adding that parents were not entirely happy about the shift away from prewar courtship, which had favored casual, nonexclusive dating. “If you [go out with someone for] one night you might get up to a little bit of necking and petting, but what happens when you spend months with them? It turns out 1957 has the highest rate of teen births in American history.”

In more recent decades, by contrast, teen romantic relationships appear to have grown less common. In 1995, the large longitudinal study known as “Add Health” found that 66 percent of 17-year-old men and 74 percent of 17-year-old women had experienced “a special romantic relationship” in the past 18 months. In 2014, when the Pew Research Center asked 17-year-olds whether they had “ever dated, hooked up with or otherwise had a romantic relationship with another person”—seemingly a broader category than the earlier one—only 46 percent said yes.

At least among people who don’t use dating apps, the perception exists that they facilitate casual sex with unprecedented efficiency. In reality, unless you are exceptionally good-looking, the thing online dating may be best at is sucking up large amounts of time. As of 2014, when Tinder last released such data, the average user logged in 11 times a day. Men spent 7.2 minutes per session and women spent 8.5 minutes, for a total of about an hour and a half a day. Yet they didn’t get much in return. Today, the company says it logs 1.6 billion swipes a day, and just 26 million matches. And, if Simon’s experience is any indication, the overwhelming majority of matches don’t lead to so much as a two-way text exchange, much less a date, much less sex.

1.6% overall match rate on Tinder - most not leading to messages.

So why do people continue to use dating apps? Why not boycott them all? Simon said meeting someone offline seemed like less and less of an option. His parents had met in a chorus a few years after college, but he couldn’t see himself pulling off something similar. “I play volleyball,” he added. “I had somebody on the volleyball team two years ago who I thought was cute, and we’d been playing together for a while.” Simon wanted to ask her out, but ultimately concluded that this would be “incredibly awkward,” even “boorish.”

I mentioned to several of the people I interviewed for this piece that I’d met my husband in an elevator, in 2001. (We worked on different floors of the same institution, and over the months that followed struck up many more conversations—in the elevator, in the break room, on the walk to the subway.) I was fascinated by the extent to which this prompted other women to sigh and say that they’d just love to meet someone that way. And yet quite a few of them suggested that if a random guy started talking to them in an elevator, they would be weirded out. “Creeper! Get away from me,” one woman imagined thinking. “Anytime we’re in silence, we look at our phones,” explained her friend, nodding. Another woman fantasized to me about what it would be like to have a man hit on her in a bookstore. (She’d be holding a copy of her favorite book. “What’s that book?” he’d say.) But then she seemed to snap out of her reverie, and changed the subject to Sex and the City reruns and how hopelessly dated they seem. “Miranda meets Steve at a bar,” she said, in a tone suggesting that the scenario might as well be out of a Jane Austen novel, for all the relevance it had to her life.

An even bigger problem may be the extent to which romantic pursuit is now being cordoned off into a predictable, prearranged online venue, the very existence of which makes it harder for anyone, even those not using the apps, to extend an overture in person without seeming inappropriate. What a miserable impasse.

I asked Herbenick whether the NSSHB’s findings gave her any hunches about what might have changed since the 1990s. She mentioned the new popularity of sex toys, and a surge in heterosexual anal sex. Back in 1992, the big University of Chicago survey reported that 20 percent of women in their late 20s had tried anal sex; in 2012, the NSSHB found a rate twice that. She also told me about new data suggesting that, compared with previous generations, young people today are more likely to engage in sexual behaviors prevalent in porn, like the ones she warns her students against springing on a partner. All of this might be scaring some people off, she thought, and contributing to the sex decline.

“If you are a young woman,” she added, glancing down at her daughter, “and you’re having sex and somebody tries to choke you, I just don’t know if you’d want to go back for more right away.”

In my interviews with young women, I heard too many iterations to count of “he did something I didn’t like that I later learned is a staple in porn,” choking being one widely cited example. Outside of porn, some people do enjoy what’s known as erotic asphyxiation—they say restricting oxygen to the brain can make for more intense orgasms—but it is dangerous and ranks high on the list of things you shouldn’t do to someone unless asked to. Tess, a 31-year-old woman in San Francisco, mentioned that her past few sexual experiences had been with slightly younger men. “I’ve noticed that they tend to go for choking without prior discussion,” she said. Anna, the woman who described how dating apps could avert awkwardness, told me she’d been choked so many times that at first, she figured it was normal. “A lot of people don’t realize you have to ask,” she said.

As we chatted (over, obviously, wine), Iris despaired at the quality of her recent sexual interactions. “I had such bad sex yesterday, my God, it was so bad,” she said wearily. “He basically got it in and—” She banged a fist against her palm at a furious tempo. It was the first time she’d slept with this man, whom she had met on Tinder, and she wondered aloud whether she could coach him. She was doubtful, though; he was in his 30s—old enough, she thought, to know better.

Iris observed that her female friends, who were mostly single, were finding more and more value in their friendships. “I’m 33, I’ve been dating forever, and, you know, women are better,” she said. “They’re just better.” She hastened to add that men weren’t bad; in fact, she hated how anti-male the conversations around her had grown. Still, she and various platonic female friends—most of whom identified as straight—were starting to play roles in one another’s lives that they might not be playing if they had fulfilling romantic or sexual relationships. For instance, they’d started trading lesbian-porn recommendations, and were getting to know one another’s preferences pretty well. Several women also had a text chain going in which they exchanged nude photos of themselves. “It’s nothing but positivity,” she said, describing the complimentary texts they’d send one another in reply to a photo (“Damn, girl, your tits!”). She wasn’t ready to swear off men entirely. But, she said, “I want good sex.” Or at least, she added, “pretty good sex.”

As one might imagine, feeling comfortable in your body is good for your sex life. A review of 57 studies examining the relationship between women’s body image and sexual behavior suggests that positive body image is linked to having better sex. Conversely, not feeling comfortable in your own skin complicates sex. If you don’t want your partner to see you getting out of the shower, how is oral sex going to work?

Maybe, for some people, it isn’t. The 2017 iteration of Match.com’s Singles in America survey (co-led by Helen Fisher and the Kinsey Institute’s Justin Garcia) found that single Millennials were 66 percent less likely than members of older generations to enjoy receiving oral sex. Which doesn’t bode particularly well for female pleasure: Among partnered sex acts, cunnilingus is one of the surest ways for women to have orgasms.

In exchanges like these, I was struck by what a paralyzing and vicious cycle unhappiness and abstinence can be. The data show that having sex makes people happier (up to a point, at least; for those in relationships, more than once a week doesn’t seem to bring an additional happiness bump). Yet unhappiness inhibits desire, in the process denying people who are starved of joy one of its potential sources. Are rising rates of unhappiness contributing to the sex recession? Almost certainly. But mightn’t a decline in sex and intimacy also be leading to unhappiness?

At first, the drop was attributed to the Great Recession, and then to the possibility that Millennial women were delaying motherhood rather than forgoing it. But a more fundamental change may be under way. In 2017, the U.S. birth rate hit a record low for a second year running. Birth rates are declining among women in their 30s—the age at which everyone supposed more Millennials would start families. As a result, some 500,000 fewer American babies were born in 2017 than in 2007, even though more women were of prime childbearing age. Over the same period, the number of children the average American woman is expected to have fell from 2.1 (the so-called replacement rate, or fertility level required to sustain population levels without immigration) to 1.76. If this trend does not reverse, the long-term demographic and fiscal implications will be significant.


[–]von19 1 points [recovered]  (28 children) | Copy Link

I'll try to address this because I fit into this category. For me it went something like this...

Be a shy/introverted teenager growing up. See all of your peers pairing off and think, "It'd sure be nice to have a girlfriend. Maybe I should try."

Proceed to ask girls out, get shot down, mocked, laughed at, friend zoned, and taken advantage of in the process. Assume women dont find you attractive, or you're a broken human. Either way, why bother? Stop interacting with women and trying to find a girlfriend because its pointless.

Refusal to interact with people deteriorates your social skills. Poor social skills, mental health, and history, stop you from initiating. Even when its blatantly obvious she's interested.

End up single into your 20s and possibly forever. Busy yourself with other things to fill the gaping hole in yourself.

I think that's it.

There's probably more but cant think of it.

[–]KV-n22 points23 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You are exactly like me except i didnt even try to ask them out. When you notice girls want certain type of man which you 180° differ from whats the point

[–]VictoriaSobocki-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I guess you can try to look for other girls, maybe lowering the standard a little bit will help :)

[–]KV-n5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There arent girls who would like guys like me and the guy i replied to. Maybe some unattractive would grudgingly settle for me out of necessity (doubt even that) but im not desperate enough to do that.

Im very all or nothing guy in every area of life, including women. If i cant get perfection i wont even try.

[–]antariuszRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

Then you find on the internet the tools you were lacking as a shy introverted teenager, learn what you were doing wrong and fix it. Or not, maybe I’m the only one smart enough to learn from my mistakes.

[–]von19 1 points [recovered]  (23 children) | Copy Link

You follow the internet's advice, still end up unsuccessful, and quit.

FIN.

[–]antariuszRed Pill Man9 points10 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

I mean it took me a few years to go from virgin at 25 to where I was regularly hooking up with girls by 27, it takes time, but it does work. And then of course I was still “plugged in” and having unhappy “unsuccessful” relationships for years afterwards, wasn’t until I found TRP years later that my success really took off, but just learning the basics of game and how to look better? That shit isn’t nearly so hard. It just took a long while because I wasn’t as successful nor as attractive, so the opportunities were so much less. I would spend 15-20 minutes writing a personalized witty first message 2-3 sentence paragraph for a girl, trying to be clever, trying to make some kind of joke, only for her to ignore it.

That’s the kind of shit that, repeated 500 times makes you stop doing shit that fails, and instead you start sending out “hey, what’re you up to tonight” as your first message (or equivalent). It’s a learning process. Some guys have an easier time learning than others because they can make more mistakes because they are given more chances. But eventually every guy can learn from that process, along with getting advice from other guys, because the shit-tier blue pill advice would be keep writing those witty opening messages because eventually you’ll find some woman that really appreciates it. Meanwhile a “real man” could have sent “hey”, and fucked her five closest hoe friends in the meantime and been much happier in life.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

All this effort for the same females that tried to humiliate you? That now have close to nothing to offer outside of 1 thing? And that 1 thing becomes increasingly unattractive quite rapidly with age? The math just does not add up for me here.

[–]antariuszRed Pill Man4 points5 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Eh, It’s not so much that I was actively mocked so much as just ignored or friend zoned mostly in school. I was probably better off than the majority of incels, I was clueless about girls specifically but not socially retarded otherwise. Perfect example was a girl that accepted my invite to prom, and then 2 hours later her friends told me she changed her mind. I wasn’t so hopelessly lost that I never even tried with women, or so hopeless that she laughed in my face or anything.

Social pressure and whatnot strongly applies to women, it was likely those same friends that convinced her not to go, I used to be upset at her specifically, but I do think genuinely she wanted to go with me and wasn’t just being nice, but her friends convinced her I wasn’t “cool” enough. I ended up going with a good friend of mine’s fiancé. That’s how much of a “safe boring nice guy” I was, the guy had no fear at all of letting his girl go out on a date with me. And yes, it stayed strictly platonic. (And the girl I originally asked ended up not going at all and is now a single mother working a dead end job and has not aged well, so feel free to give me a “cool story bro” if you’re into revenge porn fantasies about “the wall”)

Anyways, why would I be interested in some girl that tried to humiliate me, I have self-respect. Any girl that didn’t think I was good enough when I was 18 or 24 doesn’t get to have me at 36 (assuming they knew me in the first place). Trust me, every chick that has ever turned me down, and there are literally thousands of them at this point, are the ones that have missed out on an opportunity better than being an early investor in tesla or amazon.

I’ve actually been dating a 20 year girl for 2 years now. She never knew me when I was an unfuckable loser, (obviously, because of the age gap) but if she did know me, she also would have thought of me as an unfuckable loser, because I was (sad truth). And she’s actually pretty awesome. Women haven’t changed, I have changed. If an incel man can’t let go of his past and embrace the future or even just accept who he is now in the present, then he deserves to remain as he is. Women are able to offer a lot more than just 1 thing (I’m assuming you’re referring to sex). Women are able to offer a LOT of good things, because women are not the same as men, the things they bring to the table are completely different than things you can get from male relationships.

When you want an outcome desperately enough, and are smart enough to figure out how to make that happen, you WILL find a way of making it happen. I was going to state that with the caveat “of things that are possible, not like winning the lottery”, but even gaming the lottery is possible, recalling now the story of the math professor who figured out the winning codes and won 10+ jackpots from scratch off tickets.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Your story hits home. I struggled when I was young. Below average women treated me like shit. Women were just never interested. Then I hit the gym, learned how to not be a doormat (no more Mr Nice Guy) and it was like a different world had opened up to me.

The weight loss was one thing but seeing how differently women treated me was when it really sunk in. The same jokes that fell flat before were met with flirtatious giggles. Some women were far more interested in my conversations before and getting ghosted became almost non existent.

It took a while for me to understand that women are shallow no matter what they claim they want. The friendzoning of my teens when I was awkard and overweight made sense. They don't want nice. They want sexy and exciting. They choose for status and not for traits first. You don't have to offer commitment to get laid if you're hot enough.

When my friends and I talked about it, they often mentioned how much easier it was to get laid when they were being dicks. They'd often also point out how sad it was they had to resort to being assholes to get more interest from women. They prefer to be nice but women leave even good looking men to chase excitement.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Women found you more attractive and were more responsive to your advances when you were no longer fat and gasp! now attractive. What a shocker!

It’s incredibly weird that men are bitter about the fact that women want physically attractive men. Who the hell doesn’t want to be with someone physically attractive? This bitter sentiment is usually from lazy men that are upset that they had to work on their physical appearance and actually stop their shitty eating habits and sedentary video game lifestyle.

Which is incredibly hypocritical because men do not even look at women they don’t find attractive. Why would they expect that women would want to be with physically unattractive men? How does that make sense?

Attractive people get special benefits. That’s life. A hot man does not need to offer commitment to get laid, while a hot woman does not need to give sex to get free money and effort, benefits and even some kind of commitment.

Women care about looks just as much as men. Only difference is that women place a confident personality as a close second or a co-first criteria. All this sour grapes, bitterness and complaining about women liking and preferring physically attractive men, is just weird and hypocritical.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s incredibly weird that men are bitter about the fact that women want physically attractive men.

It is surprising because they lie about it. They also drip feed affection to keep guys as orbiters, leading them on while complaining about the assholes they're sleeping with. It does indeed make sense now. However, men don't get told to look good and be dicks to get women into them. They're encouraged to be nice and women would find value in their character traits. It doesn't help that women don't say 'oh, well a six pack, a car and six figure salary are hot!' They say they want nice guys. Nice guys think they have a shot and are confused when nothing happens.

Again, it makes sense now. But when you're head over heels for her and she says something like 'why can't I find a nice guy, like you?' it really fucks with you. The lies and false hope tend to piss guys off, especially when they realise what's going on.

Which is incredibly hypocritical because men do not even look at women they don’t find attractive. Why would they expect that women would want to be with physically unattractive men? How does that make sense?

A few things to unpack here. First, men find more women attractive than women do men. Men are far less shallow in this regard. Yes, attractive women do get more attention. But an average guy is probably not going to turn down another average woman's advances. Average women tend to want more than average men, though. She has to be really unattractive or much older to be invisible while a guy just has to exist. Even obese women get laid more than obese men.

Again, it makes sense when men understand what attractive is. Women tell men that their virtues are attractive, which is not the whole story. Women go so far as to ridicule men for being nice to them in their approach! Think about it: she is so determined to not be seen as shallow, so determined to ensure others know she is higher value than what she is that when a guy is actually nice, she shits all over him and calls him a liar. And yet, why would you not be nice to someone you like or want to sleep with? Why would guys do this if it's not what women say they want?

Men are generally honest about what they want and there's so much in the media available to support this. Women may not like it, but we know what we like and there's a lot of wiggle room because everyone from a 4+ is most likely on our radars. Women, however, repeat the rhetoric that they don't know what they want or are silent about the physical features and social status that they truly crave.

All this sour grapes, bitterness and complaining about women liking and preferring physically attractive men, is just weird and hypocritical.

It would be if young men were aware but they generally don't know. They're getting more info today than before and realising women want what they cannot give. So they're checking out of the SMP.

You know what is hypocritical? When women say they want X but fuck guys with Y. When women claim they desire nice guys then complain about the assholes they're fucking. Of course there's sour grapes. There are a bunch of men who were lied to who realise just how shallow women are. These guys don't want to be alone. They've offered themselves several times and are angry like women who keep getting pumped and dumped. How else are they supposed to feel?

What's more hypocritical is when women, single in their 30s, complain that they cannot get dates when they spent years rejecting men who were available. It's hypocritical to claim they were the victims of poor relationships when they, the choosers, chose poorly. It's hypocritical to claim to want a nice guy after years of assholes. It's also hypocritical to assume her SMV is so high, she deserves only the best but won't lose the weight or the shitty, entitled attitude.

[–]sketch1620000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well fucking said. This is the answer, OP.

[–]Tell_them_to_shrugMGHOW2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol

All this time and effort for a wet hole

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If an incel man can’t let go of his past and embrace the future or even just accept who he is now in the present, then he deserves to remain as he is.

Amen brother.

And well done on actually sorting yourself out.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And what is implied by this "as is"? Not fucking suddenly makes your life inferior? hmmm.

I'm quite happy doing whatever the fuck I want during each and every hour of each and every day without any outside intereferences ;--)) Of course that's anecdotal, there's plenty of guys not capable of getting laid that are spending way too much time zoned in on this fact. Let me just merely bring your attention to the fact that some of this species are not so weak minded...

[–]rovad_0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

How tall are you, how deep of an overbite do you have, and what is your gonial angle? If these attributes are indeed subpar then congrats man , you truly did escape inceldom.

[–]antariuszRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

5’8” , a small overbite (maybe 2-3mm) and wtf is a gonial angle, even after I just googled it, why the fuck would it even matter or how would you even measure it? Do you actually get a protractor out and hold it up to your face? According to Wikipedia you can’t even tell the difference between a man and a woman solely based upon it, so why do you think it matters? You’re obsessing over unimportant shit if you think that’s even in the top 100 things preventing anyone from getting laid.

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/mandibular-ramus-and-gonial-angle-measurements-as-predictors-of-sex-and-age-in-an-egyptian-population-sample-a-digital-panoramic-study-2157-7145-1000308.php?aid=58787

According to this you need to give up on your gonial angle obsession and instead begin obsessing about your mandibular ramus or should I say... your lack thereof?!?

[–]rovad_1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No its generally an estimate made by just looking at it, and is usually tied to your maxilla position and position of your bite. You can usually estimate every 10 degrees or so. Regardless, you seem to have a solid bite and jaw so looks were never a deal breaker, your behavior was. Its very important in getting laid (if angle is high enough), im not obsessing just wanted to gauge your apperance as succintly as possible my dude.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Fucking jaws man

[–]praisethesun799Not actually a fag 😉1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You need to go out and do coke and hook up with edm party chicks

[–]Tell_them_to_shrugMGHOW0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Is that a strategy now?

“Men” have really gotten sad

[–]praisethesun799Not actually a fag 😉0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Partying and having fun always worked to meet people and get laid . It's not a "strategy " jeez , it's called going out and having fun

[–]Tell_them_to_shrugMGHOW-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Pretending to like electronic dance music isn’t that fun

[–]praisethesun799Not actually a fag 😉0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, but it will get them to socialize and find opportunistically to get laid . They probably won't HAVE fun, but they will LOOK like fun people, which is something a lot of rp folk desperately need

[–]von190 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Precisely.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

How quickly and how many attempts did you expect to find success?

[–]BossOfTheAppleSauce 1 points [recovered]  (52 children) | Copy Link

My theories on why sex is declining:

  • The availability of high quality distractions such as porn and video games
  • The internet is debunking true love mysticism. Not just TRP but all kinds of anecdotes about relationships gone awry (frivorces, the Aziz story, etc.). It also causes women to be more cynical because the "he will say anything to get in your pants" message is a lot more prevalent.
  • Women are increasing their standards of who they hook up with due to technology giving them access to a large quantity of Chads. This causes many of the non-Chads to opt-out instead of settling for scraps.
  • The rise of online communities that "support" men who choose not to place much importance on women.

[–]Whodunnit88Survivied Purge Week 201812 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sounds complicated.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, that's complicated & I disagree that's not even the entire story.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't forget men now approaching less than ever for me too fear

[–]Mariko20007 points8 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

It also causes women to be more cynical because the "he will say anything to get in your pants" message is a lot more prevalent.

Is that really more prevalent?

[–]Daffan8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

A lot more women hear about it because of the internet and how fast information travels. There are less naive people (one would hope anyway)

[–]Mariko20000 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That sounds like a subjective interpretation that you shouldn't be stating as fact.

[–]Daffan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The amount of methods available for information to travel would """"almost"""" certainly increase the %

[–]BossOfTheAppleSauce 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

Is that really more prevalent?

Yes, they are called fuckbois now. It seems to be a very common complaint among women these days, there are all kinds of memes and anecdotes about the dangers of fuckbois.

[–]reluctantly_red10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It seems to be a very common complaint among women these days

When was it ever not a common complaint?

[–]BossOfTheAppleSauce 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

When was it ever not a common complaint?

It was less of a complaint when women made men wait longer (several dates, weeks, etc.) for sex. This is because the longer dating process somewhat filters out fuckbois. That said I agree with your point that it was always an issue to some degree, the point I was making is that anecdotally it seems to be even more common today. When women adopt a strategy of "sleep with high SMV men on the first date and hope for the best", the obvious outcome is the fuckboi complaints.

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm old AF and I can tell you that there was a lot more doing it on first dates in the 70s and 80s than there is now.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yet they still fuck fuckboys. They may regret it later though. Source: Was a big one in college

The anti-fuckboy talk is probably a way to keep non-fuckboys in their lane.

Edit: Of course I also witnessed fuckboys getting all the action in high school. Hell, when I threw a New Years party in senior year I got my first taste of the life of a fuckboy. (Had a chance to hook up with the hottest blonde there.)

[–]mackstarmagic5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I constantly see women talking about how much they hate men. Especially Women in their early 20s.

[–]PearsOfWrath4 points5 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

The internet is debunking true love mysticism. Not just TRP but all kinds of anecdotes about relationships gone awry (frivorces, the Aziz story, etc.). It also causes women to be more cynical because the "he will say anything to get in your pants" message is a lot more prevalent.

And so women's reaction is to shun the betas and have more casual relationships.

I would say that disproves your argument but given that women are retarded I have to say it actually makes sense.

[–]Freethetreees-1 points0 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

Why would women have sex with betas they’re not attracted to? That would be retarded

[–]PearsOfWrath1 point2 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Well, clearly women are attracted to men who will pump and dump them.

But then they also get cynical about relationships because of that? lol. Female logic.

That's like me saying I'm attracted to women with severe BPD. And then when they make my life a living hell, I break up with them and whine about how relationships are bad. And then I go and find another BPD bitch.

[–]kandyapplezborn in '91 👸 💅2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

But then they also get cynical about relationships because of that? lol. Female logic.

the idea that women are wholesale cynical about relationships is a male fantasy

and sexual attraction and relationships are born from "logic"

[–]PearsOfWrath0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

the idea that women are wholesale cynical about relationships is a male fantasy

That was what was being claimed in the post I was responding to.

[–]Freethetreees1 point2 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

You can’t control what you’re attracted to, it’s biologically ingrained.

So either get pumped and dumped or be celibate or have unpleasurable sex with someone you’re not into or get lucky and find a male unicorn.

Love is a battlefield

[–]EsauTheRed 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

So long as you raise your own children with your own blood and sweat (money) that's perfectly fine

[–]Freethetreees0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But it takes a village :)

[–]PreferencesRBigotryBlue Pill Man-1 points0 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

You can’t control what you’re attracted to, it’s biologically ingrained.

except you can control it to a degree and it isn't biologically ingrained.

[–]Freethetreees0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

So do you believe being gay is a choice?

[–]PreferencesRBigotryBlue Pill Man0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

That's why I said "to a degree". I didn't choose to be bisexual, but I did train myself to find certain features I didn't previously find attractive, attractive. I am not special. Sexual preferences and beauty norms differ across societies and cultures all over the world. These things aren't innate whatsoever, and people can actively train themselves in very short time-frames to become genuinely attracted to things.

[–]Freethetreees1 point2 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

It’s sad that you felt the need to “train” yourself to change your natural attraction patterns. Almost as sad as gay conversion therapy.

[–]PreferencesRBigotryBlue Pill Man-1 points0 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Except it's not sad at all. There is no such thing as "natural sexual attraction pattern", it's all socialized and can be changed with very little effort, unlike gay conversion therapy which can not work. You do not and never had "natural attraction" to anything, it was socialized into you throughout your life and the beauty norms and media etc. in society.

What's actually sad is not doing so, and being complacent in discrimination against people when you can easily change yourself. Like white racist redneck losers who refuse to stop hating people of color.

[–]Ladyofblades1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I disagree that the online communities take away from the number of men who were having sex in the first place.

[–]EpikYummehLurker0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It may be that these people always existed, but now they have a platform to be vocal and try to "recruit" others who are on the border.

[–]Ladyofblades1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The influence of this is very minimal. We’re only aware of it because they’re so prevalent here. And they weren’t or wouldn’t be having sex regardless anyway.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah they also don't have enough influence to make a significant dent in such a large scale phenomenon.

[–]FairRating 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Don't forget men seeing the truth in modern dating culture as well. Women online are becoming more and more proud and open to promiscuity, which leads to men labeling women as slurs and becoming jaded.

[–]Freethetreees-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, how dare women have sexual desires, it’s like they think they’re people now or something. It’s not like men could ever be ok with women enjoying sex like men do /s

[–]learnieit's about respect23 points24 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

This article talks about Millennials in America. Those factors such as access to porn, broadcasting your life on Internet may have affected the sex. However, this article seems to ignore the economic factors which is something that affects everyone.

As far as I know, for Millennials, it has become an economic challenge to complete their college without any debt. If you choose not to go clg, then good luck finding a job with a good pay. Buying a house is not cheap at all. Hospital bills cost a fortune if you don't have insurance. Even if you do have insurance, you still have to pay a lot.

As a Millennial, it has become quite difficult to live a life without debt and have your own house. As a man, to be into dating and relationships, you need to have your life in order. That's the reason why people are marrying quite late and having children. Having a child is financially costly. You need to have a lot of cash in order to raise a child. For a Millennial, it takes years to reach the position where they can afford to have a child.

When you are facing financially issues, sex won't look appealing to you. The only thing that would bug your mind is your financial issues and you would work or think of different ways to solve those issues instead of dating because that will look like a waste of time.

Another poster mentioned about Millennials being afraid of doing mistakes and obsessing about doing the right thing. Yes, it is absolutely right. Millennials will obsess about doing right thing because if you do one mistake and it gets posted on internet, it will affect your life and your job. God forbid, if the mistake is bad then you will be fired and will have tough time finding another job even if you learnt from your mistake.

Now, let me summarise my whole point:

Imagine being a Millennial in school, everyone around you is sharing about their life online or discussing someone else's life online. It turns out that employer these days are looking at your online activities to see if they can hire you or not so what do you do? You decide to avoid drugs and doing stupid stuff after drinking lest it would affect your chances of getting a job. Soon you graduate high school but realise that you can't get a good paying job as a high school graduate. You need to go to college however they are expensive so you decide to take a loan. You again slog through college hoping that it will be worth it in the end. You graduate from college and apply for jobs. It turns out that it is quite difficult to get one which makes you worry about your debt and your future. With time, you get a job but you try to look for a house only for you to find out that buying a house is expensive and rent isn't cheap either. You somehow learn to lower your living standards and choose to live in a rented house, pay your debt and do your job.

Now, you have a life. You long for a relationship. You want to meet and date people. How would you do that? Online dating doesn't work unless you like a model. So, you try to socialize with people or approach a woman you like but here is where the problem occurs.

You approach a woman in a random setting. It is a risky situation. If she sees you as a creep and post about it on the internet, you are done. You will end up losing your job and might not get an another job. Here is the kicker, if she finds you attractive, you won't be seen as a creep but how are you supposed to know that she finds you attractive? Look for signs? Which can be misleading or misunderstood. You kinda give up on approaching a woman and think that it will happen when it will happen. You go back to minding your work.

But your sexual urges won't go away so to satisfy them, you would turn towards porn and masturbation. Just the ease of access to porn isn't the problem. It is a symptom of a bigger and larger problem which is caused by redefining the interaction between men and women and economic conditions.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London10 points11 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

i partly agree with this. a lot of men don't feel they can date if their money isn't right. It's taking longer and longer to get that money right

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

This is a mistake on the man's part imo. I started going out with my current gf when I was unemployed. Then I got a series of shitty jobs e.g. retail. Now I'm about to get a job in the City with a salary equal to the average household. That one girl stuck with me throughout all of this. Guess who is going to reap the rewards of my growing success? Not the girls who didn't have any interest when I was broke, no. The girl who stuck with me even when I had dropped out of university, was unemployed, or doing shit-tier work because she loved me, thought I was intelligent, and believed one day I would be successful.

If your goal is an LTR this is the ideal situation imo. I would be wary of getting serious with a woman who only liked me after I got a good job.

Of course if I was only about ONS then yeah I'd just flex and get laid.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I meant on a can't even afford to go out once a week level of "money right" but yeah, generally humans blow this type of thing out a of proportion, but its still a blow to self-esteem

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I agree especially about self-esteem. That's really the biggest issue.

But if a guy can't afford to go out to a bar once a week he's got bigger problems than tfw no gf I have to say.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

But if a guy can't afford to go out to a bar once a week he's got bigger problems than tfw no gf I have to say.

Exactly. An empty wallet makes to re-think certain luxuries

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

How many people do you think are that broke though? Even with a retail job you can make almost a tenner an hour and there's plenty of overtime going around as well. You can actually make an okay living in those jobs. Not a great one, or even a middle class one, but certainly enough that you don't have a straight up empty wallet.

A lot of people I knew in retail would even do a bit of overtime when a new console or game or designer clothing came out so they could buy it. Or if they needed extra money to get their car fixed same deal.

I don't think many people are straight up legit poor these days in the West. Unless they're just scrounging off benefits and purposefully not getting a job despite being able to work, then they'll be proper broke... but that's a feature not a bug.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

okay maybe I was exaggerating. But I know many people that live from cheque to cheque, and that's before having a girlfriend. Not saying it's impossible, but it can make it a struggle, and no one likes to struggle

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

True true man I get ya. Especially in London.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷-4 points-3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Yeah adulting is rough. Always has been. The difference is previous generations weren’t raised to believe they’re entitled to happiness and success just for existing.

[–]learnieit's about respect5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

That's a bit debatable. But if you compare adulting for baby boomers and for Millennials, you will realise that it is tougher for Millennials.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No it is not debatable both my grandparents had incredibly difficult lives as young people they were very poor and had very few opportunities and both went to poorly paid full time work at around 14. My grandfather fought in a war carried his best friend off the battlefield with his legs blown off and worked in a tent camp in the Yukon mining before getting a decent factory job. My grandmother lived in a shack with no two young children after her first husband died he also beat and starved them so she got a gift from the universe when he died young with no heat no indoor plumbing and worked as a cleaning lady in rich folks homes and the nice people gave her food because they knew she had young children. They both had a grade eight education. Common diseases like the flu killed their family members. And they were white native English speaking people so they had it better than others. They were normal working class people of their generation. Normal life in North America was actually very difficult for most people just a few generations ago. There is literally no comparison. I get up every day and thank some silent overlord I did not have the life they had.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

It is was tougher for my generation that the boomers. And it was far tougher for the silent generation. Thems the breaks.

My grandfather grew up in the segregated south. Couldn’t vote. Was told what water fountain he was allowed to drink from. Lived in fear of lynching. Wasnt allowed to have any job besides sharecropper or domestic. Wasnt allowed to attend college. Served in an all black unit the army being shit on by white soldiers. Managed to move to a northern city and get a job in a factory. Worked 6 days a week. Still couldn’t buy a house on the nice side of town because of housing discrimination. Sacrificed retirement and pension so his kids could get an education.

You know how many times I heard him complain? Zero.

[–]learnieit's about respect2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Ok if we start bringing race into this discussion, it will just become more complicated that's why my earlier post ignored race factor.

What your grandfather faced was horrible and had to do with his skin colour which affected his life a lot.

Regarding complaining, yeah I agree. With the presence of Twitter, it is easy to see lot of complaining by younger people. But, here is my question, are you not even allowed to discuss the issues? Don't you think that by discussing those issues, you might be able to fix issues?

Here is something I want you to think. You mentioned about your grandfather not complaining and just hustling his way. What if every black person did that? What if not a single black person talked about racism faced by them? Do you think that the situation would have improved if not a single black person talked about it?

If you look at the history, when black people started raising their voice against racism, there were many white people who thought that black people were complaining.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

They did FAR more than complain. They did something about it. They were marching, protesting, boycotting, suing, and sacrificing their lives, literally, to change things.

What are millennials doing to change things? They won’t even get off their asses to vote.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t be allowed to vent, but the rest of us would take the complaints of millennials a lot more seriously and with a lot more empathy if we saw them doing something about the things they’re complaining about.

[–]learnieit's about respect1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Well, give them some time to figure out what they need to do.

Most of the millennials don't understand how important politics is. The other day, a millennial was asked on video about whether he will be voting or not. He said no because his voting issue is school shooting. He thinks that we don't need politicians instead we need more police officer. He fails to understand that politicians has the power to write policies that will create more police force.

Usually when the elections are close, there are campaigns saying you should vote. A millennial who would see this campaign wouldn't understand why he should vote? Those campaigns seems like they are just screaming at millennials to vote instead of explaining them why they should vote. Perhaps, help them understand how much influence a politician holds on your life and your future.

Maybe when they get a bit more old, they will realise that how important it is to know about political issues and vote for a candidate. They should understand that

"They may not be interested in politics but politics is definitely interested in them."

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough

[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm a millennial and can't agree with you.

I choose to no longer vote. Politics are smoking screen for the seek of power. Our votes do not really determine who gets elected in the end, and the regime will still be a plutocracy and an oligarchy. Even in the West we are not in a democracy.

Moreover the politic power is the bitch of the financial power. Just look everytime there is a financial crisis, politicians bail them out at the expense of the people.

Additionally politics have so little impact on our everyday lives. The rich will stay the rich and the poor will be maintained in poverty, heck even the gap is getting wider thanks to the complicity of the government, mainly by tax breaks. So why should I sacrifice hours in a long line just to do an act that has little impact in the end?

More, we have clown politicians. I like to say that politics are like reality tv for old people. In the US the put Reagan, Schwarzenegger and now Trump who can barely speak English in power. In my country the guy who ended up president , 76% of the people did not vote for him in the first round. And he lived in a privileged bubble all his life. You think he and Trump know what's the best policies for the regular folk ? Please.

It's okay if you think politics are important, but please keep it to yourself and don't judge others who may have seen right through it.

[–]learnieit's about respect0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, you are right about politics. What you described is quite accurate but have you thought about why the politics is this way? Why is it that politicians favours corporate interests over public interest?

Here is the answer: In a democracy, there is a concept called checks and balance. People are the ultimate check on power however it requires to stay informed and at least vote in elections. They should talk to their representatives and make sure that he makes decisions that benefits you.

But in case of America, people have chosen not to vote which allows politicians to favour corporate interests over public interest. You think that politics is not important because rich will stay rich and poor will stay poor because of tax breaks. Guess what who writes those tax breaks, politicians do. Who can protest or remove such politicians from their position of power? PEOPLE!!

They can protest and talk or even run for an election using this issue for office. But no, we are going to sit on our ass and just accept this gloomy situation because unlike previous generation, we don't have enough juice to fight for our voice and vote to be valued by politicians more than corporate money.

You can also start talking about how damaging lobbying has been on the democracy. How politicians no matter what choose to serve corporate interest over public one. Supreme court legalised lobbying which personally I think is nothing more than bribery.

Sure the situation is bad but doesn't mean you should run away because honestly, politics will stay forever. Your only option is to participate in it and change it for better.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse86 points87 points  (38 children) | Copy Link

Gaaaaaaah hahahahahahahahahahahahhaah

And yet quite a few of them suggested that if a random guy started talking to them in an elevator, they would be weirded out. “Creeper! Get away from me,” one woman imagined thinking. “Anytime we’re in silence, we look at our phones,” explained her friend, nodding. Another woman fantasized to me about what it would be like to have a man hit on her in a bookstore. (She’d be holding a copy of her favorite book. “What’s that book?” he’d say.) But then she seemed to snap out of her reverie, and changed the subject to Sex and the City reruns and how hopelessly dated they seem. “Miranda meets Steve at a bar,” she said, in a tone suggesting that the scenario might as well be out of a Jane Austen novel, for all the relevance it had to her life.

And yet women expect men to have the confidence to approach women, women are too god damned scared to take the same risk and talk to a man, yet clearly as we can see the best a man can hope for is to be called a creep for his troubles.

And these women then wonder why they can't meet someone that way.

I say more men should base their sexual diet on porn and fapping. Women don't want 80% of us anyway. It's all a wasted effort. Pussy is overrated anyways.

[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete45 points46 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's all a wasted effort

Amen to that.

And if women are so awesome and men so lame, maybe women should start dating themselves and leave us alone.

[–]yaseedog will hunt11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Read further. There are women sharing naked pics of each other as well as lesbian porn. They're doing this while still wishing for a guy to fuck them.

I never thought it would get this bad. I wonder how long they'll do this before they realise that, surprisingly, shitting all over men generally doesn't get them hard...

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Pill Man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"If I'm such a worthless piece of shit then I should be easy to replace, you have nothing to worry about because all we are doing is removing something from your life that saps value instead of adding to it. I want divorce because that's what's best for both of us."

Crickets. Chirp chirp chirp.

[–]a-WaltzingMatildaPurple Pill Man8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

women are too god damned scared to take the same risk and talk to a man

I dont see this. They approach attractive men, or eyefuck them until it's basically an approach anyways

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse18 points19 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure there are a handful who do, but you can clearly read the article - women mainly talk about men approaching them, not them approaching men.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

How many women did the article interview? Not enough for a representative sample that's for sure. And it's journalism, it was written with the agenda set first and the rest set out later to fit it.

Women will approach (attractive) men.

[–]NeedingAdvice862 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Have you been around women? I mean normal women and not highly confident social butterflies?

Because my experience is that most girls are pretty neurotic and more self-conscious that any guy....most girls are even less likely to actually opening approach a really attractive guy for fear of rejection.

They may signal more extreme attraction toward an attractive guy than they do toward normal or average guys but to openly get up and walk across a coffee shop or bar or god forbid a grocery store to open a hot dude and ask for their contact number? Not likely.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Statistically women are more likely to be better at socialising, it's one of those sexual dimorphism differences we talk about on here. It's why women are far less likely than men to be diagnosed with autism.

Your stereotypical shy girl is in the minority, most women are more socially proficient than the average man.

[–]NeedingAdvice863 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes women are much more comfortable in socializing, I suspect because so much of their youth is actually spent doing so while preteen guys activities are usually competitive in nature or solo related activities such as sports, video gaming or outdoors in which the guys bond over the activity or at most have one or two participants.

But that in no way contradicts the reality that the vast majority of women will not initiate a sexual encounter from opening to invitation to scheduling to fucking....even the more confident girls expect the men to take over at some point to making that happen.

And for the vast majority of girls, the entire encounter rests on the male outside of some sometimes very subtle signs of interest or sometimes very obvious signs of interest.

Not saying anything about rightness or wrongness, it just is what it is.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They often (not always) will if the man is attractive enough that's all I'm saying.

[–]Starphysics-1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

They do eyefuck a ton though.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse15 points16 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That means fuck all if she's too chickenshit to step up and take that risk.

[–]kandyapplezborn in '91 👸 💅2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

it's not fuckall to a guy with balls

[–]a-WaltzingMatildaPurple Pill Man11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s fuck all to a guy who doesn’t notice.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So you're saying I have big balls if I approach after getting eye fucked? So women DO want to be approached. Wonder why so many here claim otherwise.

[–]pizza_tron1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Based on what evidence? I haven't been eye fucked since college. 10 years ago.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'll up your anecdote with one of my own: I get girls eyeing me up all the time.

But I'm also still young and attractive.

[–]mwait1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm about your age, early 30s... I tend to get eyed semi regularly during normal day to day stuff. If I'm dressed up and out on the weekend, it occurs all the time.

I actually used to have a girl I called the Eyefucker who worked at the salon I got my hair cut at. She would eye me in the mirror like I couldn't see her doing it. It was absolutely shameless. My hair stylist laughed and told me all the broads there would "ogle" me when I came in. Then she proceeded to ask me why I never asked her out(she had a kid).

I don't know what you dress like, how attractive or how tall you are... But it happens.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Even if you're attractive, women will assume you are confident enough to approach them. Bottom line: Unless you want to be very lonely, you will have to approach women if you are a man. Women just expect it. Feminism will NEVER change reality.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Eyefucking still offers women plausible deniability. Some guys are still always going to be too unsure to take the risk. Call them less than men if you want. Guess it's no huge loss... despite the fact that someone found them good enough to eyefuck in the first place.

[–]pizza_tron0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Super rare.

[–]speed3_freakOld School Red-4 points-3 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

And yet women expect men to have the confidence to approach women, women are too god damned scared to take the same risk and talk to a man, yet clearly as we can see the best a man can hope for is to be called a creep for his troubles.

Sure, but even if that's 80% of the time (which it's not), that still leaves one out of 5 women who are willing to have a conversation, even if it feels forced. If 1 out of 20 of those women seem interested, then that's 1 out of every 100 women that you speak to that are interested in a discussion. A guy in a normal populated area who is confident and speaking to all women remotely within his range could easily hit that target multiple times per week. The issue is that guys are scared, not that it's not possible to speak to women without being a creep.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse19 points20 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Like I said, part of the problem is women are too scared to take the same risks. That is the first problem I mentioned, and the most important. You can never hope for much from a woman who feels she is owed the first move - that sense of entitlement poisons the whole relationship.

And only one out of five women being open to a conversation is absolutely horrible. Worse so that a guy has to go through that much shit, while a woman is too chickenshit to take the same risks.

Also you don't factor in the fact that a guy approaching that many women is going to get noticed. Women talk to each other and his risk of hitting on the friend of a woman he hit on before, goes up with each try. If he "crosses the streams" it's over for him. Full stop.

And again, "guys are scared" is an invalid explanation when women are also scared. Enough of the "it's the man's burden" - it's time women stopped being chickenshits and started shouldering some of the risk.

[–]Dweller_of_the_Abyss10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You can never hope for much from a woman who feels she is owed the first move - that sense of entitlement poisons the whole relationship.

Amen, Church, Send It, etc...

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And only one out of five women being open to a conversation is absolutely horrible. Worse so that a guy has to go through that much shit, while a woman is too chickenshit to take the same risks.

This sounds like pussy talk "I'm scared but she's scared too!" FFS

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Enough of the "it's the man's burden" - it's time women stopped being chickenshits and started shouldering some of the risk.

Lol no thanks. If a man can’t approach, then he’s simply not attractive.

You can never hope for much from a woman who feels she is owed the first move - that sense of entitlement poisons the whole relationship.

It’s not entitlement if most men do it. Entitlement means that you feel like you deserve something, even if you don’t. I don’t have to deserve it before Tom, Dick and Harry comes to approach me. Guys approach whether or not you feel entitled to it. Sometimes it because they feel entitled to your attention whether or not you want their company. No matter the whining about it, a lot of them like approaching because they like to project the confident persona given that they know women like confident men.

[–]speed3_freakOld School Red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The trick is that you dont walk around hitting on women. The best pickup line is, how are you today?

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Now picture doing that 100 times. How long before you cross the streams?

[–]the_calibre_cat12 points13 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

If 1 out of 20 of those women seem interested, then that's 1 out of every 100 women that you speak to that are interested in a discussion. A guy in a normal populated area who is confident and speaking to all women remotely within his range could easily hit that target multiple times per week.

...how many strangers do you regularly talk to?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This depends if you live in a city or not more than anything. In London for example it's pretty much taboo to even make eye contact on public transport. When I travel further up north I get friendly strangers casually chatting to me on the train.

Once, and I still remember this because it simply would have never happened in LDN, I got to a little town and didn't know where I was going. My battery was low and Google Maps gives bad routes anyway. So I asked a woman if she could give me directions. I was expecting to just be pointed somewhere and be told to turn left or whatever. But no she walked me right to where I wanted to go and we had a casual chat all the way there.

I hear the same in the US about New York as well. It's just normal to be friendly with strangers outside of big cities, but inside a city is where no one ever talks to each other.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

In London people are still open to chat as long as it's not rush hour. We're just not used to it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Verrry rarely. This has happened once in recent memory, and that was a few years ago when I was out with my girlfriend, plus it was approaching evening on a Friday so of course everyone was already smashed.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fridays Saturdays and chill Sunday afternoons are good I think. better in summer of course

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Haha

I came froma small town and just relocated to a big city and I guess my first take has been that big cities are not all the same. And, secondly, I've had nothing but kindness in the big city. My car died on the seventh floor of a parking garage (because I'm an idiot and left the lights on), and my usual recourse of asking a nearby friend to help couldn't work here - the only friend I had didn't drive his car to his job and traffic is a spectacular bitch here.

So I just started asking people who were driving by in the parking garage. Third person, a super cute woman driving a Honda Element, stopped and gave me a jump. I was floored. I was lied to!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Haha. I'm not saying everyone in cities is horrible honestly. I'm not surprised you found someone to give you a jump start. But when it comes to starting conversations purely for socialising, not out of utility, that's something I experience a lot more of outside cities.

Never in London has someone just started having a casual friendly chat with me on a train unless it was Friday night and they were drunk. Meanwhile on a train going through the countryside I've had people just start up a conversation for fun.

[–]speed3_freakOld School Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dozens every day. The vast majority of the time it's just a hello, how are you, but sometimes it evolves into a conversation.

[–]ChadEsquirePurple Pill Man38 points39 points  (65 children) | Copy Link

The article is worth a read in full and touches upon a lot of topics that PPD discusses and debates constantly.

Some highlights:

On millennial dating culture: “We hook up because we have no social skills. We have no social skills because we hook up.”

"Christian Rudder, a co-founder of OkCupid (one of the less appearance-centric dating services, in that it encourages detailed written profiles), reported in 2009 that the male users who were rated most physically attractive by female users got 11 times as many messages as the lowest-rated men did; medium-rated men received about four times as many messages. The disparity was starker for women: About two-thirds of messages went to the one-third of women who were rated most physically attractive." - Pareto strikes again!

"Like economic recessions, the sex recession will probably play out in ways that are uneven and unfair. Those who have many things going for them already—looks, money, psychological resilience, strong social networks—continue to be well positioned to find love and have good sex and, if they so desire, become parents. But intimacy may grow more elusive to those who are on less steady footing." - Gotta risk it to get the biscuit as my fraternity brother would say

"Men spent 7.2 minutes per session and women spent 8.5 minutes, for a total of about an hour and a half a day. Yet they didn’t get much in return. Today, the company says it logs 1.6 billion swipes a day, and just 26 million matches. And, if Simon’s experience is any indication, the overwhelming majority of matches don’t lead to so much as a two-way text exchange, much less a date, much less sex."

[–]Noxin__NixonPillPoppa16 points17 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

We hook up because we have no social skills. We have no social skills because we hook up.”

Cute tautology but it doesn't work like that. They have no social skills because they are obsessed with digital interaction instead of human to human interaction.

[–]the_calibre_cat13 points14 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

I don't believe this. This sounds like my irate boomer family members. I use my technology when I don't have humans around... to connect to other humans. When I'm around my tribe? I rarely touch my technology. I do things, and I think that's the case for most people.

[–]Noxin__NixonPillPoppa14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

One only need to look at concerts, bars and other live social events and see how many people are on their phone to see that smart phone social media does interrupt many people's live social interactions. Going further the tautology clearly isn't true in reality either its just a clever phrase with no meaning

[–]NeedingAdvice864 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This......

Every music festival, concert or sporting event or even trip to the beach is full of millennials taking selfies in which they are having the "time of their lives" then followed immediately with them spending the next hour absorbed on their phones, barely paying attention to the event, and looking bored to death until someone in their group suggest leaving as if the entire purpose of attending was getting a good selfie for their social media or snapchat story.....most barely interact with anyone at the event and spend tons of time texting with some random person not at the event.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn this is brutally depressing.

[–]mrcs84usnFatty Fat Neck Beard0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Remember this nonsense?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

What generation are you though?

The Millennials (the oldest of whom are actually in their 30's at this point) grew up browsing MySpace via dial-up and Windows XP. The closest things to smartphones they had growing up were BlackBerries. If you got a girl's BBM PIN you was in there son.

The "Zoomers" (if that's seriously what we're calling them) who make up the teens and young adults of today have grown up with iPhones and iPads with superfast 4G and Instasnapbook since they were babies, along with Tinder and all these other apps that neatly replace socialising.

When I was a teenager I used my Windows XP netbook (remember netbooks?) to meet nerd girls on niche online communities. No one except nerds would even consider meeting a partner online.

Today the landscape is very different when every twat with a smartphone can be swiping on Tinder. It's become oversaturated to say the least.

I think the generational gap between Millennials and Zoomers on the role technology plays in their lives is huge in such a short period of time because tech has just moved so fast.

[–]the_calibre_cat3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

When I was a teenager I used my Windows XP netbook (remember netbooks?)

I miss netbooks!

...

I miss Windows XP. 😬

I think the generational gap between Millennials and Zoomers on the role technology plays in their lives is huge in such a short period of time because tech has just moved so fast.

I actually wholly agree with this - but i would argue that that's distinct from the economic argument.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I miss Windows XP

You miss the blue screen of death?

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

My Windows XP ran like delicious butter.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mine ran like butter too.

But, running uphill in a blizzard :'(

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He didn't say windows vista.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't miss netbooks, always underpowered and the keyboards were terrible.

Windows XP does still kinda feel like home though.

It is distinct from the economic argument absolutely. But it is a significant cultural factor that cannot be ignored.

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

But it is a significant cultural factor that cannot be ignored.

No dispute. I agree with this argument. It's a sufficiently significant social force that changed how we socialize in, like, six years. That's lightning fast for that kind of a social change.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know, it's fucking mad. I still remember when the first iPhone came out. I was like 12-13. Now I'm in my 20's and even during my short life so far I've already seen this tech completely change how humans interact with each other. It is crazy shit.

[–]crumblesnatch 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

The keyboards were fantastic for tiny-handed freaks like me. My wpm on my old netbook was insane!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Haha for me with my big man hands it was awful. But I like BlackBerry keyboards, I even recently got a BlackBerry Android phone (yes those exist) for the keyboard.

[–]pizza_tron0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's an easy outlet. In the past there were no phones and therefor, no online option. You had a greater desire to socialize and actually took action because you had no other choice.

[–]pizza_tron-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And prevalence of 'awkward' culture.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse7 points8 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Those who have many things going for them already—looks, money, psychological resilience, strong social networks—continue to be well positioned to find love

They might find good sex but they will never find love. They'll find women who love their value, but not them.

[–]the_calibre_cat7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

ugly people win D:

well fucking played, uggos

[–]decoy88Black Male in London3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

but not them.

What is "them" ?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's the standard for a straight relation..

[–]TrumpCardStrategy2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The thing is men are their value

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because we let women define us that way. MGTOW would be a success if its main focus was to teach men not to let women define us that way. Unfortunately it drifted way far from this core thinking into "let's get revenge on women".

[–]TrumpCardStrategy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah but we definite ourselves and eachother that way too, it’s not just women at fault.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, true, again men are in part the architect of their own suffering. Touche'.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What else is there to love besides someone’s value? This is what confuses me when men complain that women don’t love them the same way.

What men love in women, is their value. The things that make a man valuable and that make a woman valuable may be different in some ways, but it still doesn’t change the fact that you love them because they have value. Beauty is value, companionship is value, support, empathy, domesticity, sex, dual income...all these things are value. And they are things that men love women for. Your value is what makes you, you.

Which is why it makes no sense for men to object to being loved for their value. What else do they expect women to love them for, especially given that they love women for their own value? Just makes no sense.

[–]EsauTheRed 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

When you lose your value (say, with age), shouldn't a man chuck you then?

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Youth is not the only thing that makes a wife valuable to her husband. Just like money is not the only thing that makes a husband valuable to his wife. There are many other things and that’s what makes each gender valuable and as such compensates even when they lose youth or money.

[–]Daffan3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like a coping strategy.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Not coping at all. It's true. Millennial women care fuck all about a man, they care about his value, that's it. Millennial men and younger generations are in for dark, dark times when it comes to dating. Love has already ceased to be a thing.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Loyalty has never been worse either. Used to be 2-3 serious dating partners in a life before marriage. Now both genders can easily trade in their partner for someone else

Millennial women are also exceptionally difficult to please as they have greater economic power than ever before. There aren't enough men with higher status than them to go around

[–]Daffan1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I only meant that because you made it seem like high SMV guys will never find love ("Love their value") and perhaps ugly guys will. But yes I agree overall.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, ugly guys won't find love, either, because love has never truly existed. What every man will discover now is that the millenia-old veil of lies about "true love" is getting quite tattered and about to be blown away by the winds of change.

[–]praisethesun799Not actually a fag 😉3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Man you're so fucking dramatic , calm those ovaries bro . Love is just fine

[–]TrumpCardStrategy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah man the chemicals that produce the feeling still exist bruh

[–]Freethetreees0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This isn’t a “millennial women” thing, it’s a people thing. Men don’t love women for who they are, either. Men love women for the sex and utility they provide.

[–]pizza_tron0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean by "value" exactly?

[–]EminemLovesGrapesSpongebob0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The ability to provide for them and possibly their kids.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Socioeconomic value. Extrinsic value.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Hook up culture is not new.

Low value men getting no attention from women is not new.

Recessions are not new.

That most interactions and dates didn’t lead to sex is not new.

What’s new is a generation who thinks they’re the first ones ever to experience anything.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What’s new is a generation who thinks they’re the first ones ever to experience anything.

That's not new either, every generation thinks this when they are young.

What's actually new is the strong influence and all encompassing presence of technology and internet.

[–]ChadEsquirePurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly this! I venture every generation has to finds its way with dating. It's an essential part of adolescent development. However, what this article is discussing is a pronounced cultural attitude shift towards dating, sex and relationships. What if Stacy and Chad are too insecure to even meet? What if therefore the prophecy of the Pillosphere never gets consummated? What if the safetyism generation never even has sex because there's no participation trophy for it? At least we will have avocado toast!

[–]bd312 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Interactions have changed noticeably in recent time due to technology.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

in what way? Specifically

[–]bd310 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Just the phone is one example. I've often seen 3 or more people in a coffee shop, usually younger, texting or browsing instead of talking. And I've had dates and friends jumping to attend to their phone chimes like a Pavlovian dog. On the positive side, technology can facilitate people with niche interests to connect. To imply that nothing's changed is an overstatement.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I never said nothing changed.

I said the fundamental human dynamics, psychology and socioeconomic trends are not new. iPhones haven’t changed the fact that there have always been recessions, casual sex, and people who do and don’t do well on the dating market.

[–]bd310 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

People disagree on what those fundamentals are, as that depends on what model and experiences you are arriving at such assessment. What's "not new" to you may be new to others.

People's reasons for coupling have changed historically, and there is a downward trend towards marriage. What fundamentals are you referring to and what scale of time do you see no sense of change?

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

The OP attributed lack of sex among millennials to these factors. Except these factors have always been around.

[–]bd310 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not those specifically. There is variance between cultures, and even within cultures over time. I see no issue, and relevance in noticing shifts in trends.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh please. If you want to have a real conversation based on facts let me know. Otherwise, have a nice night.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Gotta risk it, what the fuck does that mean exactly.

[–]ChadEsquirePurple Pill Man10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

He's a really chill dude. It basically means people need to get off their ass and go talk to people if they want dating success.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Having your life in the strait track to success giving you a clear advantage has zero to do with shooting your shot. You'll just fail, alot because everyone else above your weights is eating your lunch.

[–]pizza_tron3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

???

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

No pain no gain.

He who dares wins.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Platitudes

Right, right it's so much clearer now I definitely get it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You won't succeed in life if you are unwilling to take risks. Simple fact.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Repeating the original statement isn't a definition.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I literally cannot dumb it down further for you. It is clear as day.

[–]TrumpCardStrategy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

just give up and never try again lul

[–]ChadEsquirePurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly! You're going to fail sometimes with or without advantages.

[–]analt223No Pill39 points40 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Because its hard to be an attractive man in the social media age.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse35 points36 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

But it's easy as fuck to be a woman in the social media age. Which is why I keep saying, having sons is a curse.

[–]the_calibre_cat48 points49 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Oh man, that hurts to hear, but I kind of think you're right. Have a daughter, and she'll have legions of teachers and social workers and politicians fawning over her. Have a son? And by 15 he'll be a walking, talking avatar of the problem with society.

Having a son in this day and age isn't just a curse, it's plain irresponsible. When the disease of deliberately adversarial gender relations goes away, I'd be all for it, but until then having a son is just fucking cruel.

[–]avengerofhusayn13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

All three of you are on point, I’d say. A son will be drowning himself in “memes,” and have an anime profile picture on Facebook and feel socially isolated by the time he’s 15.

[–]the_calibre_cat5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

...also a risk.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only if your son is autistic.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Pill Man5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Having a son as a blue pill man is a cusre. A red pill aware man's son is born outside of the matrix. The smp is his to conquer and dominate. Once you know about the lies feminism spews out it easy to work around them. It's like navigating the fire swamp in the princess bride.

Jack black is swimming in pussy and he was before he was famous. We have all met men like him who are repugnant to look at but successful with woman. It's the same thing for short men.

You can win through practice and force of will. You have to decide and proactively make decisions that cause you to fail. 99% of men that can't get laid are doing it to THEMSELVES.

[–]VictoriaSobocki0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s not like you can choose which gender pops out

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

...yeah you can

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Would still rather have a son than a daughter.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

You can't choose whether to have a son or daughter lol.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

...yeah you can

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Why would you go through IVF and the cost and other issues that come with it if you can just conceive naturally. Gender selection abortion is highly immoral imo and who's to say all these male fetus are going to be ugly Incels? They could be the next Leonardo DiCaprio for all anyone knows

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Why would you go through IVF and the cost and other issues that come with it if you can just conceive naturally. Gender selection abortion is highly immoral imo

Maybe, but abortion and IVF are safe and accessible... so people will do it. Really, it's already happening - clinics offer these services, and people are paying for them.

...and who's to say all these male fetus are going to be ugly Incels? They could be the next Leonardo DiCaprio for all anyone knows

That's not relevant to my point, my point was that Leo DiCaprio or not, he still owns a penis, and he'll still be born in the gynocracy, so so one will givea shit about him. He's not gonna be a diversity hire unless he's black (Hispanics won't be able to claim diversity for much longer, and Asians are already too successful to claim it), etc. He's not gonna get any "you GO girl!" scholarships, and frankly? The feminists seem pretty content that they haven't ratcheted their rhetoric up enough - so he'll grow up in a world that condemns him even more for being a fucking regular-ass male.

That just seems cruel, tbh, and the fewer men we have the better it is for them, at least as far as sexual fulfillment goes. The list goes on and on.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So your saying the only thing worth existing for for a man is getting laid? I dont see how men are condemned for being men tbh.

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So your saying the only thing worth existing for for a man is getting laid?

No, what I'm saying is that being a respected member of society is an important thing for anyone. And in this day and age, you don't get respect if you're a man - particularly a white man. You can get by on some token victimhood if you're Asian, Black, or Hispanic, but you'll never have as much as women in these castes do - and you'll still be disrespected for the fact that you're a man, and part of the problem.

That's the social narrative right now, and I don't care who you are - eventually, that will take a toll on your emotional well-being. According to feminism, it did for women. I guess they're just still having their revenge... on the most progressive, tolerant generation of men to have ever lived.

I dont see how men are condemned for being men tbh.

Not to be mean, but... are you fucking kidding me? I can go to Google and type "men" into the search, and between articles of men committing crimes (which is totally fair, IMO, I'm not complaining about that - that's factual reporting), you get articles like "Financial Times tool warns if articles quote too many men" or "Why men should only go for ladies that they can afford". For fuck's sake, there's literally an article called "Best advice for men and boys on masculinity from 50 powerful men" in which no fewer than eight out of the ten quotes featured in my link are talking about what men should do for women/feminism. Some editor at the Washington Post read, and approved for publication, an opinion article literally entitled "Why can't we hate men?"

Yeah, men are condemned for being men. Either you shut up and color and don't fight the system, or you're supposed to chop your dick off or fuck other dudes. That's what it takes for you, as a man, to get any kind of credibility or respect in today's society. Obey the narrative, or completely shed anything resembling traditional masculinity.

And that's why it's a fucking crime to raise a son in this world. Women hate men? Fine, fuck it, enough men hate men in this world to make it a pretty fucking miserable place to live based purely off of some characteristics you were born with, supposedly the liberal litmus test of what we can and cannot judge people over.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah those article's sound pretty toxic. I think many women have had a lot of negative experiences with men especially as a teen, and it can colour their views the same way it does to guys who have lots of negative experiences with women (usually revolves around being rejected rather than harassment and abuse).

I don't know what you mean by 'you don't get any respect as a man'? Of course I'm not a man so I've no idea but its an interesting concept.

[–]darudeboysandstormSoup on the stove, bread rising, apple pie0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You don't need handouts to live a fulfilling life, I never got a scholarship I never got a diversity hire, and I could care less who gives a shit about me as I have made a fine social network. Men aren't babies and shouldn't need babying.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not talking about fucking handouts, I'm an unapologetic capitalist who thinks material suffering is often good and builds character, I'm not defending handouts.

I'm attacking the culture we live in, and the narrative weavers and report spinners who administer it. I think equality of opportunity is a noble goal to strive for - but that requires mutual respect.

It's plainly fucking evident that respect goes one way in this day and age - to women, not to men, who can be disrespected and are often expected to smile in the face of disrespect at their expense. That's not asking to be babied, that's asking for basic human courtesy.

[–]pizza_tron16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it all boils down to women. They are the choosers. There are lots of thirsty dudes out there who would be happy to get laid.

Women are giving less attention to men than historical norms. Women date across and up in social/financial standing. They are succeeding more now. More women are going to college than men. They are deciding to focus on their careers and put off marriage and a baby. They have sexual outlets with vibrators and porn. They view men as predators or losers. Their standards of men from social media and online dating are significantly higher.

Women's reduced desire and higher standards result in lower hook up rates. Simple.

[–]the_calibre_cat24 points25 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"Whatever it is, it most certainly isn't the openly hostile rhetoric we have been publishing in our pages for going into several decades now, that is perfectly healthy discussion for society and may even benefit gender relations!" ~ The Atlantic, probably.

[–]prostate-apostatespectacle beta7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The Atlantic is an analytical magazine they dont tell you what to do they just try to explain why things are the way they are .

[–]rovad_8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can confirm, am nonchad millenial normie

[–]DissentientUnplugged9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

People are figuring out that social interaction, relationships and sex are overrated. Good for them.

[–]Gaffots_cuck_central 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Whole lotta words to basically say “because women aren’t putting out”

[–]Ultramegasaurus19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rather, women only putting out for a small cadre of men over and over again.

[–]pizza_tron10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lol

That's really what it all boils down to. Lots of thirsty dudes out there who would be happy to get laid.

[–]HossMcDankEdgy Centrist9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

1) Women are making more money than men among the younger generation, so they don't need to.

2) Internet and video games raised a generation of men, now they don't have the courage to approach or the skills to do so successfully.

3) Fear of being accused of harassment/rape and having one's reputation ruined.

[–]iceicle9996 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As to be expected, the vast majority of posters here blame young men almost exclusively. Go figure, eh.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was told it might be a consequence of the hookup culture, of crushing economic pressures, of surging anxiety rates, of psychological frailty, of widespread antidepressant use, of streaming television, of environmental estrogens leaked by plastics, of dropping testosterone levels, of digital porn, of the vibrator’s golden age, of dating apps, of option paralysis, of helicopter parents, of careerism, of smartphones, of the news cycle, of information overload generally, of sleep deprivation, of obesity. Name a modern blight, and someone, somewhere, is ready to blame it for messing with the modern libido.

Why can't it be all of the above?

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. Be Attractive

  2. Don't be unattractive

[–]MGTOWtoday15 points16 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

Feminism. Feminism has made women behave in undesirable ways and so your average young guy looks at a 300 pound blue haired monster who endlessly screams about how all men are scum, average guy thinks “wanking to porn is better than this.” And so without the need to care for a family, he doesn’t have to work 50-60 hours a week, he can instead work fewer hours, wank, and play video games. Then these very same women say, where have all the good men gone? What? You mean the ones you kept calling toxic?

[–]jonascf13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminism has made women behave in undesirable ways and so your average young guy looks at a 300 pound blue haired monster who endlessly screams about how all men are scum,

I meet a lot of feminists in my daily life and what you're describing is very very rare.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol MGTOW revenge fantasies.

[–]voxnihilisum0 points1 point  (24 children) | Copy Link

Feminism is an idea about woman and men being equal.World doesn't evolve around your or her little life.Women get killed or raped every day in middle east or asia.We have to protest for our lives.Then idiotic egoists like you shout in the internet "fEMinisM iS bAD,tHaT oNE woMAN iS hATefUL sO aN eNTiRE gENEratION musT BE lIKe tHAT."

And there are good men even though they face with unfair treatment in their social life,they manage to be decent.You however are not good or decent.Feminism isn't about woman insulting men.It's about gender equality.Im so sick of some idiots like you or her trying to ruin what it really is.

[–]BirdManBrrrr6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women get killed or raped every day in middle east or asia

Oh please, manspreading got more press in the west than Saudi women FINALLY getting the right to drive a car.

And let's not forget which spectrum of political thought welcomes with open arms into their nations those same people who so oppress their women back in their home countries, and then makes excuses for them to not assimilate to western values.

[–]voxnihilisum1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well,media in west never posts actual important stuff in east so im not surprised.Most of the people thinks there is no war and people are dying in Syria. Culture differences and politics issue is a can of worms in many ways so im not sure about what you are referencing.

[–]MGTOWtoday1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

How can two different things be equal?

[–]voxnihilisum0 points1 point  (20 children) | Copy Link

Every human is different from each other in some way.That doesn't change the fact that we are all equals.Physical differences doesn't make one superior to other in this age.

[–]MGTOWtoday0 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy Link

Why not? If we’re all equal then how can anyone be privileged?

[–]voxnihilisum0 points1 point  (18 children) | Copy Link

Because some people in this age still believe they are superior due to religions and old social norms .We are supposed to be equals.That's what's healthy.We are fighting for it.All races and genders should be treated equally.I don't know why you have a problem with accepting that unless you are one of them.

[–]MGTOWtoday0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

Well why not have different peoples live in different countries so they can all enjoy the privilege of being in the majority?

[–]voxnihilisum0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

I honestly don't know where you are going with your vague question replies but people can't decide where they can live.If you are trying to say something,directly say it.Everyone can be majority everywhere if issues like races,gender,religion and sexual preference can be fixed or normalised at least.Wanting to use power of majority against minorities is fascist and terrible.

[–]MGTOWtoday0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

Suppose for a moment that racism isn’t taught, but rather it’s hardwired into us biologically. If a given society only contains 1 group of people who all share the same race, religion, and language, then would it still matter if anyone was racist? If everyone is the same then there’s no one to discriminate against.

[–]voxnihilisum0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

Humanity loves to divide into groups and fight each other for dumb reasons.Even if they have the same race, religion and language they will fight for im left you are right or our prophet is x your prophet is y.You can see it in all civilizations throughout history.There is no ideal community where everyone will agree with each other,there will always be discrimination against something.Best solution is accepting our differences and be welcoming towards everyone so humanity can finally grow and avoid eventual wars that will kill millions again.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew16 points17 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

the sexual revolution was an anomaly. something was going to bring it to an end, there was no way of predicting what.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy26 points27 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Shedding a tear for how easy it was for average men and women to engage in random sex back then. Society got "serious" about sex and decided men needed to be reined in, men bought into it with the promise of pussy. Not to mention aids sobered people the fuck up, lower T trends, and single moms raising little johnny to be ashamed of his masculinity.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea, pretty much.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Avoid the soy. I'm not even going into a right-wing tirade about "soyboys", leftist men benefit from having higher testosterone levels, too - and soy lowers that. Eat your vegan shit, just avoid soy shit.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Society got "serious" about sex

Pretty sure AIDS had a large affect on that too

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Can I just ask, how you raise a son to be 'ashamed of his masculinity'?

[–]BirdManBrrrr0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I see what you mean. I have a son and daughter and me and my family don't believe gender is constructed, my little boy has been obsessed with cars and sharks since he was about 9 months old, and my daughter was the same but with baby dolls, princess clothes and ponies. No one encouraged it they knew what they liked naturally.

My nephew is the same, obsessed with vehicles from being tiny. I dont understand people who pretend boys and girls are exactly the same, they arnt. I find it odd that woman is even thinking about her son potentially harassing women when he's older, poor boy.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's an interesting perspective that I agree with & unfortunate, somewhat I suppose.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (73 children) | Copy Link

Young person- I honestly don't know why guys my age aren't getting laid. I understand women have more success than men, but there's something I've noticed with guys in my personal life. More guys I know are saving their virginity. It's the weirdest concept to me, I mean I get that sex is important blah blah blah. But 70% of girls their age have at least one or two bodies under their belt, and the guys would rather play fortnite. Even the ones that have females lusting after them, they show disgust towards the idea of sex and would rather watch porn and play fortnite. It's strange to me.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

How would you know how many "bodies" the girls have no one advertises that publicly?

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

I'm a girl. We tell each other things. I know the body counts of all of my friends (male and female).

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

This is sensitive info and most young people will answer publicly in a manner which befits expectations to maintain a certain image. Young people have actually been known to play up their sexual experience.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

"Publicly". I'm talking on an intimate level. I know and have seen first hand experience, attractive guys being lusted after and not taking up any of these female's offers.

[–]KV-n9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Maybe she was ugly

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They're average to slightly above average girls approaching average to slightly above average guys. In some cases, the girls these guys are approached by look better by miles. And they still get rejected.

[–]KV-n0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They must be low t as fuck. Im diagnosed low t as well and wouldnt fuck many/most girls even if they approached me

[–]EminemLovesGrapesSpongebob4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do they know?

It's often a meme at how some men are totally oblivious to the signals women give them.

Either that or they're so attractive they don't want to have anything to to do with the basic betties that do ask them out and they know they can do better.

[–]kandyapplezborn in '91 👸 💅2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

it's hard to lie when you're friends with both the guys and girls and they're hooking up with each other

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah most social circles aren't that grossly incestuous... fucking friends exs is taboo for normal people

[–]kandyapplezborn in '91 👸 💅0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

not in high school! lol

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Even in high school that's reserved for "special" people.

[–]kandyapplezborn in '91 👸 💅1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

i don't know what you mean by "special", but in any contained social environment like a school, exes are never off limits and its expected friends will date and screw each other. you're literally stuck together every day for years with limited new people being added

[–]b0redn0rdNo Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't sweat it. For some reason, Reddit perpetuates this idea that dating your friend's exes are off-limits but I've seen my friends play musical chairs with each other in terms of dating.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most schools aren't that small.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why would you think n counts aren't discussed privately but not publicly?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sensitive info is obviously not shared publicly in most cases.

[–]Daffan8 points9 points  (52 children) | Copy Link

Even the ones that have females lusting after them, they show disgust towards the idea of sex and would rather watch porn and play fortnite. It's strange to me.

Bullshit but ok.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (51 children) | Copy Link

I swear on my life. Speaking on mostly seniors in high school (17/18 and some 19 year olds). These guys I know, ones that I'm friends with, have girls that are willing to fuck them. And they express utter indifference, and would rather look at memes.

[–]pizza_tron14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What might seem like obvious come ons to you and your female friends, are usually not seen or understood by young men. Women typically have a very passive way of hitting on men that goes completely over the heads of most men.

When I was in high school girls would regularly make obvious passes at us and when we would attempt to follow through with it, the women would say "eww just kidding, lol, gross!" This lead us to not trust a lot of obvious attempts out of fear of being played and looking foolish.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I had similar experiences as a teenager but you can't let that shit affect you as an adult man. Adult women do not act this way, or at least only an extremely immature minority of adult women do.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

And they express utter indifference, and would rather look at memes.

Their social skills suck, most likely.

When you say these women are willing to fuck them, how are they expressing this? Are they asking these guys out on dates or making the first move? Or are they quietly hoping he gets her hints and enthusiasm? What do your friends look like? Are they 6s aiming for 8s? Usually when women desire men, they're the more desirable ones who can afford to be picky. Their indifference may be due to not wanting to take things further.

From the article, women just generally don't seem ok with men pursuing them and women are not putting in the effort. Years of being disincentived to approach for fear of the social backlash and humiliating rejection make it much harder for young men - especially awkward teens - to bother. Why ask her out when your friend or a guy you know was humiliated on social media? Why bother when the last 10/20 or more said no?

Men have always been worried about this and women just kept shooting talk of this down. Women don't want to approach and there's no way a guy can know who is okay with his approach or not. When the risk is greater than the reward, men would rather jerk off to porn. Porn doesn't reject him. The women explicitly show their sexual availability. They are fitter or more attractive. Video games give him a chance to feel like a winner where social status, such as sport or marriage, did before.

What's the point of marriage or even getting into debt for a house when there's no one there to share a life with? Why work hard at college and bust your ass at a job you hate when there's no one at home to take care of? Guys figure this shit out young and just call it quits.

Your female friends are going to have to do some more of the legwork if they hope to get more men's interest.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They get girls sending them nudes, and they enjoy being sent nudes. But that's as far as they will take it. Girls will outright approach them, and they will reject them. Often times its 6's and 7's going for 5's and 6's. And according to this sub, men have sex more indiscriminately than women anyways.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If they're in demand, they're probably fucking 8s who are available to them. That is, of course, unless these women are not 6s and 7s but mistakenly overvalue themselves.

This happens far more than women care to acknowledge.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

What's the point of marriage or even getting into debt for a house when there's no one there to share a life with? Why work hard at college and bust your ass at a job you hate when there's no one at home to take care of? Guys figure this shit out young and just call it quits.

Am I the only one here who actually takes pride from personal success? I don't work to buy a house for the sake of a woman, I do it for my own pride. I would feel horribly depressed if at 30 I still lived with my parents and worked in retail. I am driven to succeed beyond that by my own ambition, not external factors.

When someone asks me what I do for a living I want to proudly tell them I have a decent job, I don't wanna have an awkward moment where I admit I do shit work and still live with my parents. I'd much rather pull up in a nice car wearing designer clothes and let my status speak for itself.

Not even just to flex, just out of pure personal pride. I don't wanna waste my life in a dead end job going nowhere in life. I wanna make something of myself. I want to make myself proud.

I have felt the same when I was single or in a relationship it makes absolutely zero difference. I don't do it for other people. I do it because I'd rather drive a G63 AMG than ride the bus.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Am I the only one here who actually takes pride from personal success?

women really have taken all the enjoyment out of beta value. Financial success just makes you a BB target and the kinds of people with aptitude for financial success really are at the bottom of the totem pole in our femcentric social sphere.

I would feel horribly depressed if at 30 I still lived with my parents

that's about all the money you need, past that it's really not rewarding. Singed someone making 125k

I do it because I'd rather drive a G63 AMG than ride the bus.

youll change your mind once you find out how bad repairs on piece of shit mercedes are. Hello $25,000 transmission rebuilds. Do yourself a favor and buy a car that wasn't designed to implode after the 3 year lease was up

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Again I don't give a shit about what women think of me mate. They can attempt to use me for BB if they want. It will not work. I have a vasectomy and refuse to get married. The fuck are they gonna do, have an immaculate conception?

As for the cars you don't know much about G-Wagons then man those things are fucking tanks they will survive the apocalypse. Repairs are gonna be more expensive than a cheapo Kia hatchback when they're required sure but why would I drive a shitty cheap car if I can afford something better?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Personal success is great. But not everyone is going to be succesful. The bulk of humanity is pretty poor. Those who aren't and want to get wealthier face crippling student debt. Those who don't bother will have to settle for minimum wage.

My point wasn't so much about working for a family but rather that the costs to begin to seem attractive enough to women are escalating.

If you're born poor and unattractive, it's an uphill battle to change that. If you're middle class and unattractive, you can exercise and work your debts off, but you'll probably only be in the clear by your mid thirties if you are not married. A kid or two means more resources you've got to find to pay off debt and take care of everyone. This means more work, less family time, all under the risk of divorce, which she will most likely initiate. Half your shit vanishes over night and you're poor again.

This isn't to say you shouldn't invest in yourself. But if your only experience with women is that they aren't interested, and it's going to take years to get the kind of life where she MAY find you interesting and there's a significant risk of all that hard work being destroyed when she's 'unhaaaaapppy!', men are going to rethink things. Not everyone can make it so many of them just check out.

Society hasn't provided them many inventives and actually blames them for many problems in the world. It's easier to continue to seek a safe space in mom' and dad's basement with porn and vidya after your shift at Walmart than to exercise, eat right, study, work hard, pay off debt, try and fail repeatedly at dating and hopefully find someone who likes you by 30.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What I gather from this is "don't have kids" then boom, disposable income.

And most people in the Western world are not poor, not by a long shot. Even the poor in the West live better than kings used to. We take for granted just how much we have these days. And it's not exactly like you need to start a multimillion dollar company to be successful. Just get a decent job and be smart with your money, avoid debt as much as possible, etc.

[–]a-WaltzingMatildaPurple Pill Man2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

That’s a lot of effort, and a lot of people really don’t care about external measures of success. Even though you claim you’re doing it for yourself, it’s still a show. Showing what you’ve achieved and obtained.

As an introvert myself, all of that just sounds like pointless posturing. I like nothing more than to have my space, peace and quiet. It doesn’t cost a great deal to have your own space, peace and quiet. Why work any harder than absolutely necessary to cover your basic needs and a few wants? Decreased obligation time, increased leisure time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Nothing that is worthwhile is easy. Imo if there is anything worth putting effort into it's your own career. I want the absolute best life I can possibly get for myself and will do near enough anything to get it. Anything less would just make me flat out depressed. If I did things your way it'd mean standing there in the supermarket I'd have worked at for 10 years going nowhere, watching in envy whenever a nice car pulls up outside. No, fuck that. I can do better.

Anyone who stays working in retail jobs long-term, as opposed to using it as a stop gap until they get something better, is a fucking idiot. I mean seriously I've known these people, they are thick as shit. Some are nice, but most of the older ones are miserable and it's not hard to see why when you're 50 and your greatest achievement in life is stacking boxes. Those kinds of people hate me! Because I'm not even 25 and I'm already doing better than them!

In reality none of these people in dead end jobs are actually happy with it trust me. Maybe they are content for a few years. But when it turns to decades they become outright depressed. A man needs a purpose. If your purpose is unloading boxes day in day out you will be miserable. It's not complicated.

And yeah part of it is I like to flex too. I never denied that. But most people have no ambition at all and that's where it leads them. Depression and envy.

That ain't me.

[–]a-WaltzingMatildaPurple Pill Man1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

And you like rap too...

All bravado and solipsism.

I’m merely explaining that not everyone is you and not everyone cares about what you care about. You’re not a template for everyone to live by. Your observations of people you see are really just that, your observations. And you’re coming from a biased place of ‘I am better than you, just look at my car’. You’re probably mistaking ‘envy’ for ‘contempt’.

And I’m not exactly the template I set out. In terms of career I’m currently doing a Masters and working, I’m a 7 day a week busy bee, but I don’t show off about it. I was merely highlighting that other people just don’t see the benefit, and are dropping out of society by doing the bare minimum.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

All I am saying is the people who are "doing the bare minimum" are miserable idiots. They also tend to use "oh I'm dropping out of society maaan" as an excuse for "I can't do better" or "I'm too lazy to do real work."

If you do not believe me, make friends with some middle aged men who still work in retail and tell me how happy they are with their lives. It is a path to misery.

And yes unsuccessful people absolutely do have contempt for those more successful than themselves, you are damn right.

You obviously accept this for yourself or you wouldn't be working on enhancing your own career. If you thought it was a waste of time and you'd be just as happy doing shit work for minimum wage you'd do that instead. You choose not to because you know I am right. It is a more fulfilling life if you don't waste it.

[–]a-WaltzingMatildaPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Some of them might be, but it depends. A middle aged man who is married with kids and still working in low level retail is going to be financially worse off than a single childless man of the same age. Then also, they may be miserable at work, when you observe them, but fine in their time off. Some people really do prioritise leisure over everything, and this is a growing proportion of adult men.

[–]SomeTurdInTheWind0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Testosterone levels in men have gone down to about a third of what they were in the early 20th Century, so I imagine that guys these days will barely have any sexual drive. Are they not having sex just because they do not want to?

The worst part is that we do not even know what is causing this. Changes in diet and lifestyle have been taking into account but they only explain a small part of it, most of the change is unexplained by now.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/health-testosterone-levels-dc/mens-testosterone-levels-declined-in-last-20-years-idUKKIM16976320061031

https://www.healio.com/endocrinology/hormone-therapy/news/print/endocrine-today/%7Bac23497d-f1ed-4278-bbd2-92bb1e552e3a%7D/generational-decline-in-testosterone-levels-observed

[–]jazztaprazzta0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

These guys I know, ones that I'm friends with, have girls that are willing to fuck them.

Girls that are down to fuck so easily are sluts. Maybe your guy friends don't like sluts. Probably looking for a higher quality girl.

[–]Boomer0590 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was in HS not too long ago, if nothing has changed in 9 years:

  • If there are women interested in them, they probably don't know
  • Even if they do know, you don't know for sure because women send "signals".

I was a guy who'd rather "play Halo 3 and CODMW2 and watch porn" but that's because I wasn't aware of any women who were in to me and the ones I went after weren't interested.

[–]SDW1370 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How hot are the girls?

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (27 children) | Copy Link

Too much exposure to too much porn at a young age?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree tbh. I'm becoming more and more convinced that all this access to porn is legit fucking people up from a young age.

[–]BirdManBrrrr2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Rewires the reward centers of the brain in a still developing child. So yes, porn seriously fucking up kids.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Porn > average fat chick

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷1 point2 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

I’m taking about kids as young as 9 and 10 watching unlimited hardcore porn. That’s gotta have an effect on their mental and emotional development no?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

I think that's about the age most of us start watching. Or at least i did.

I wouldn't say it causes a "problem" tho. Just gives us a higher expectation of sex that most women can't ever live up to. Most women suck in bed.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Same for men tbh.

Source- ex hooker

[–]ffbtaw 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well you fuck a hooker to nut, not to focus on her pleasure.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol you'd be surprised the amount of guys who spend ages giving oral and want you to orgasm. Obviously there are many who just jack hammer and nut but not the majority. It's exactly the same as with a civvy. Some care some dont.

Btw I've also fucked well over 100 guys in my civvie life years ago so I know what I'm talking about lol. Regardless of how the sex Came to happen, if a guy only cares about his own pleasure which many do then he will be shit in bed

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I think it's worse for women cuz that's the one reason so many guys even bother with women, sex.

And women suck at it.

What makes it even worse is that most women think they're awesome at it when all they do is lay there like a dead cow.

I think that's the real reason some women hate porn. It showed men how awesome sex could be and we're now demanding women do better.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

How many women have you slept with to come to this conclusion? And what porn are you talking about here, there's all-sorts of different types.

I've no doubt theres many women who arnt that into sex and see it as a necessary chore or don't make much effort, but it's a bit of a generalisation to say all women.

Also many people have different tastes with what they like in bed, for instance some people men and women arnt into anal at all yet others are. Again I'd be interested to hear just how many women you've slept with to be able to make a blank statement like this.

I think 'demanding' anything in bed is very poor taste and borderline abusive tbh. I can't see many women being very enthusiastic in bed with a man like that. Just saying

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Kind of the point innit?

[–]MakeMoneyNotWar0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I saw my first naked woman in a porno magazine, and back in the late 1990's, early 2000's satellite TV came out with porn channels, and back then any picture or video of a naked woman would be enough. Nowadays you can go for that perfect video, with the exact right HD def, with the exact type of girl, with the right positions, etc on Pornhub or any of the thousands of website catering to every type of kink you can imagine. I think that could mess up a ten year old's brain.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I saw my first DVD at like 9. It was one of those 10 hours ones with a bunch of different genres, had hardcore anal, gabgbangs, cream pie all that.

Not AS hardcore as the stuff you could find online today but still pretty hardcore. I've been a pornography addict ever since.

I think I turned out fine 😁

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Economics is the answer your looking for.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Can you please elaborate just a teeny tiny little bit?

[–]damaskrose 1 points [recovered]  (81 children) | Copy Link

Old lady rant incoming. The younger generation honestly seems like a bunch of squares obsessed with doing things the 'right' way and terrified of making mistakes. And it kinda makes sense, they're the first generation to live their entire lives under the threat of having your mistakes broadcast for everyone to see.

They largely don't drink, party, or do drugs. They choose their hobbies based on what looks good on college applications. They won't have sex unless you wear 3 condoms, take birth control, and present them with a copy of your latest STD screen. They're so practical, they know HS relationships don't last, so they opt out entirely. All they care about is getting good grades, boring 9-5 jobs, and approval on social media. They don't even have millennials' entrepreneurial spirit, they're a bunch of future accountants and actuaries.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse23 points24 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

They don't even have millennials' entrepreneurial spirit, they're a bunch of future accountants and actuaries.

That's because, in this economy, you spend a lot on starting your own business, and 80% of businesses fail, and if you fail, you wind up even further in the financial hole with little to no way of getting back out.

Post-Millennials face a world of phenomenally high risk and low gain.

[–]damaskrose 1 points [recovered]  (11 children) | Copy Link

Millennials pursued self-employment because of the shitty economy, not in spite of it. It wasn't because they all wanted to be rich snowflakes who ride their scooters into work at 11am (as boomers would suggest). It's because they could only find shitty part-time jobs which were insufficient to pay off their loans and get out of mom's basement.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse8 points9 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Millennials pursued self-employment because of the shitty economy

By self employment you mean the low paying gig economy, like Uber, where a fifth of their pay will be eaten by gasoline and another third by taxes. Yeah, that's called the hamster wheel - a few Millennials will strike it rich but the overwhelming vast majority will never make enough to get out of the cycle and will spend most of their time on these gigs. It's a black hole they're never going to get out of.

[–]damaskrose 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's a black hole they're never going to get out of.

That is true, however so is being an actuary.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No. Do Uber divers call themselves self-employed?

That's odd, considering that Uncle Sam calls Uber self employment, complete with self employment taxes. 1099 = self employment. Now what kind of jobs are you talking about?

That's true, however so is being an actuary.

But being an actuary won't involve self employment taxes, losing a fifth of your income to gasoline, and a hefty up front investment that is 80% likely to fail to pan out.

[–]ffbtaw 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Actuaries can make very good money, what are you talking about? It is a highly in demand job that most people don't have the skills to do.

[–]damaskrose 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Never said it's not well-paying. Some jobs are worse than the cycle of poverty.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why would anybody think uber pencils out economically? It doesn't so don't do it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It does if you work enough hours and more importantly work the right hours.

Uber is not a new business model you know, in the UK we've had minicabs forever. It is the same concept as Uber, people in normal cars using them as taxis. All Uber did was add an app instead of having to phone up the local minicab office.

It is a low paying work like retail but it's easily profitable if you work busy hours often enough. Even in London where everything is insanely expensive and petrol prices are far higher than the US.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Low IQ, misunderstanding of variable costs

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Again, what do you define as Millennial self-employment?

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

I do not buy this nonsense at all. Honestly I fucking do agree with boomers that we're a bunch of whiny entitled asshats a lot of the time. Economies change. Boo hoo. Adapt or die. That's been the story of the past 3.5 billion years, and anyone selling you snake oil claiming to have solved it (rhymes with Sernie Banders) is full of it.

You can't expect the world to be easy and coast on it and never have to have strife - THAT'S the lesson we should be taking from the Boomers, not that we need more free stuffs. What kind of fucking life is that, anyways? I wish I could be around a thousand years from now, when kids in elementary school look back on us like we were a bunch of medieval savages.

[–]MoodyBrizo 1 points [recovered]  (15 children) | Copy Link

You can't expect the world to be easy and coast on it and never have to have strife - THAT'S the lesson we should be taking from the Boomers

The boomers lived through the most prosperous era of possibly human history. Having them tell us "well it was a fun party but it's over now and we've set the place on fire and shat on the extinguishers now you figure out" is insulting and infuriating.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Economics doesn't care about your feelings, we're not the only country in the world that manufactures advanced goods anymore. The post World War II boom is over, we face competition, we need to tighten the belt.

I'm not saying we need to listen to the Boomers, I'm saying we need to see what they did. They DID live through the most prosperous time and place in human history (slight caveat: except for literally fucking now, where living standards and civil and political rights are actually unambiguously better than they were during the Boomer's time), and what did they do? They generously gave themselves lavish pensions and healthcare plans and you name it.

And then millennials look at that, and despise them for it... despite literally wanting to do the same fucking thing. Free healthcare free college free this free that, that's what millennials want - and it's what Boomers did.

The Greatest Generation didn't do that. They fought fucking wars and died. They suffered, brutally. And they were better people for it.

That's the lesson that millennials aren't seeing. Don't want to see, rather. That some suffering is good. Some suffering builds character. Yeah, sorry you weren't born right after a manmade global cataclysm that happened to benefit your geographically isolated country. Sorry you were born in a world where developing nations are rising in their living standards and competing with your own. Git gud. We Americans have been living high on the hog for a long goddamn time now, and I say it's pretty fucking rich that the SAME group of people crowing about how global climate change represents an existential threat to civilization (it doesn't) ALSO think that we should be able to not work for a living.

No, truthfully, I don't give a damn what Boomers say about us - I do give a damn what we say about ourselves, and I think we sound like a bunch of weak-ass pussies and it makes me fuckin' mad. /rant.

[–]Dweller_of_the_Abyss6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

The problem is the nobody owes you anything mindset when it comes to education, healthcare, lawfulness, civility, good faith, their word, etc. If I have to make a sacrifice for "the greater good," only to see it not pan out in any positive/profitable way, then I'm told to stop complaining and "get gud;" guess what happens?

Intersectional SJWs and their handlers/instigators knew this would happen, but started their bullshit 4-8 years too early. Now the "Reactionaries" are going to pay for their bullshit in 2020/2022. Both sides need to decide which hatchet they're going to bury and come to some form of understanding & agreement, otherwise the West is doomed to MAD due the fucked up No one owes you anything entitlement.

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Nobody owes you anything does not require or imply that nobody will ever give you something.

It's that they don't owe it to you. They are not obligated to labor or provide on your behalf. So, it's in your interest to be a good, civil, productive member of society that people give a shit about - because in that instance I think you'll find that people are happy to help should you fall on hard times.

They don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy for folks who aren't trying - and they shouldn't. The left endlessly crows on and on about how people should share and care more. Be nice if that was balanced out a by a fucking microgram of advocacy for personal responsibility.

[–]Dweller_of_the_Abyss0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Nobody owes you anything does not require or imply that nobody will ever give you something.

Maybe it's just me, but that's how I'm going to take it. Especially if they change their mind or don't hold themselves to account.

So, it's in your interest to be a good, civil, productive member of society that people give a shit about - because in that instance I think you'll find that people are happy to help should you fall on hard times.

You are more trusting and charitable than I am. I used to be more trusting, and saw what that got me... then I learned.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Maybe it's just me, but that's how I'm going to take it. Especially if they change their mind or don't hold themselves to account.

It's the fruits of their labor, how on Earth do you square having literally fucking any entitlement to it?

You are more trusting and charitable than I am.

Yeah, I've been a pretty reasonable guy my entire life. Apart from lackluster success with women, which seems to require some level of being a sociopathic douchebag to your fellow man in order to woo them, I've lived pretty well and had good relationships with people.

[–]Dweller_of_the_Abyss0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

It's the fruits of their labor, how on Earth do you square having literally fucking any entitlement to it?

When I honored my end of the bargain, they then took the fruits of my labor, and then proceeded to break their word and handwaved their already stated actions & agreements.

Am I wrong to be angry? Am I wrong to feel entitled to some form of compensation?

Yeah, I've been a pretty reasonable guy my entire life. Apart from lackluster success with women, which seems to require some level of being a sociopathic douchebag to your fellow man in order to woo them, I've lived pretty well and had good relationships with people.

This pretty much me as well. I could probably try to be more extroverted, but I just don't relate to how most others think & perceive the world.

[–]BirdManBrrrr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They generously gave themselves lavish pensions and healthcare plans and you name it.

And then millennials look at that, and despise them for it... despite literally wanting to do the same fucking thing.

We despise it because WE'RE PAYING FOR IT.

Boomers kicked the financial liability can down the road to the next generation and then come with their hands out arrogantly demanding what's their owed, then turn around and lecture my/our generation about how we're the selfish, entitled ones.

Oddly, I don't disagree with you in your broader point but the Boomers went out of their way to fuck things up for a long, long time.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You're currently living in one of the strongest more robust economies we've had and yet I see millennials strap themselves with billions in future debt by voting for state bond measures. Wanna make more money? Streamline government and lower your tax burden.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wanna make more money? Streamline government and lower your tax burden.

That's not possible boomers imported too many brown socialist voters

[–]damaskrose 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

You can't expect the world to be easy and coast on it and never have to have strife

You don't start a business if you're expecting to coast by in life. I mean you can but it'll be over quickly.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree. Don't want to coast by in life, that shit's lame, you weren't born a rock in space doomed to coldly orbit the sun for 300 million years, you're a living, breathing, sapient human being. The universe experiencing itself, and all that.

[–]BirdManBrrrr0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Boo hoo. Adapt or die.

I've watched Boomer and older GenX managers lament and cry over how those pesky, entitled Millennials "don't do it like we did" and the business suffers because THEY themselves can't adapt to a changing workforce that is different.

You can't expect the world to be easy and coast on it and never have to have strife - THAT'S the lesson we should be taking from the Boomers

As if Boomers had it hard at all. College costing a few grand a year and houses not much more and a period of the greatest economic and technological advancement of all of human history.

It's easy to piss and moan about the kids these days when the generation is on the glidepath to retirement with their Social Security checks intact.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've watched Boomer and older GenX managers lament and cry over how those pesky, entitled Millennials "don't do it like we did" and the business suffers because THEY themselves can't adapt to a changing workforce that is different.

And? This changes my argument how? At least they're not like "but muh free stuff! It wasn't real socialism!"

As if Boomers had it hard at all. College costing a few grand a year and houses not much more and a period of the greatest economic and technological advancement of all of human history.

You should probably read the rest of my post.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yep out of touch boomer woman right here. Just because a couple of young people you know don't have the high time preference you do doesn't mean they don't do anything when you're not watching. Especially the females.

> They don't even have millennials' entrepreneurial spirit

True, that's just media bullshit. Entrepreneurship is hard and most will fail anyway. It's easier to just have a 9-5 and do whatever after. So it's very understandable.

> accountants and actuaries

I agree with accountants but leave actuaries alone. They come up with the mathematical models that screw people over when it comes to insurance costs. You can be just like a lawyer without even being a lawyer!

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷3 points4 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I don’t see this. I’ve supervised a fair number of millennials over the years and it’s not that they are afraid of making mistakes because they want to do things right, it’s that they can’t handle criticism.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I supervise millennials they can be trying. Since we are coming up on holiday time everybody is bitching about working holidays. I got irritated the other day and asked them why they became nurses who wanted to work in hospitals because I could not say grow the fuck up. On the other hand many of them are very, very, intelligent and I listen when they make reasonable suggestions because they often have good ideas.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

OMG yes. Asking for vacation their second week, telling me they need to leave at 4 everyday for yoga, one told me on her first day “ I can’t work Tuesday’s and Thursday’s because I have class.” No dear, you took a full time job. I’m all for people furthering their education but you work that kind of thing out before you’re hired.

Yes there are millennials who are wonderful, including ones I’ve supervised. But the issue is that the mediocre ones have been coddled and told they are equally special to the good ones so what’s their incentive to try harder?

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh fuck yes. I like my gym/yoga/friend/whatever as much as the next person and that is what I do on my day off. I always tell people hey sick people are not going to conveniently get better during holidays. You want all the holidays off go work somewhere else. Tough shit. I kind of get it in "non helping" professions but really what did you expect if your are a nurse or a first responder? I blame parenting, there are times I wish I had got slightly more encouragement from my parents but I never went into the workplace asking for days off five minutes after I got there.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seriously. I blame parents too.

[–]Boomer0590 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I never went into the workplace asking for days off five minutes after I got there.

But that is a sign of the changing times. More and more businesses give you time off from when you start and will work with your schedule. Some will start you with 5 weeks vacation, you get an additional week at the end of every calendar month. They roll over. And that's a starting job for a 22 year old.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Where is that? Almost nobody in the US starts off with 5 weeks of vacation. If they are that is a minority such a small minority it has no discernable impact. Give me examples.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Omg I also hated the bitching about this

Nursing = no weekend or holidays especially if you want the good jobs.

OTOH I also hate the passive aggressive “happy Friday” comments from management who know damn well we’re working this weekend

Don’t worry the new jacks butthurt over Nursing will move onto their NP programs in no time 😂

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I think nurses last about three years on our floor before they move to somewhere else or start and an NP program.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

What floor is it?

Seems to me most RNs have a floor life of about 5 years. It's like a military enlistment for women. After that they have a baby and work on call or not at all, move into some kind of healthcare office work, etc. I have a great respect for the lifers who slog through this shit day after day lol. Most of them seem to be Filipino

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It is a very intensive Hem Onc floor that would be an ICU in other places.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

underfunded county hospital? red state? y'all got unions or what?

Really hating this 4-1 ratio trend for ICU level patients, how is management getting away with this. People on insulin/heparin drips needing titration every hour can't be in 4-1 safely jfc

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No it is an elite level hospital. It is in a very narrow sub specialty so even the stable patients are very sick.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh wow. Yeah count me out lol

[–]Whodunnit88Survivied Purge Week 20180 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Maybe it's you who is bad at criticising?

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Im observing this across the board, and its something every manager I’ve ever spoken with agrees with.

[–]Whodunnit88Survivied Purge Week 20180 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Of course they would lol.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Meaning?

[–]Whodunnit88Survivied Purge Week 20180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That they are not exactly fair.

[–]damaskrose 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

I wasn't talking about millennials. I'm a millennial. I was talking about the younger generation, don't know what they're called, the ones currently in HS and college.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh right so gen z I think they’re called? Sorry about that.

I have seen to many of them in the workplace yet. I think the oldest ones are like 20 or 21.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well holy shit. This is a new one. For eons, elders have complained about young people being too rebellious and chaotic. Now, elders are wringing their hands over young people being risk averse and responsible, “a bunch of squares”. Who exchange STD results before having sex, like they were taught in health class!

[–]Seagebs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

As a “post-millennial” —God I hope we get another name by the way— I really could not disagree more. It’s hard to compare the amount of partying between generations but at least on the west coast and in seriously urban areas post-millennials definitely have parties and get up to stuff on almost a weekly basis. It’s worth mentioning that most teenagers are also very safe when it comes to drunk driving, and I agree that people in general play it safe at this age, probably because of the reasons that you gave. I just think you overestimate the scale of effect those factors have.

[–]kandyapplezborn in '91 👸 💅0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

wow you guys are around way different "Gen z" people than i am LOL

[–]Boomer0590 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

they're a bunch of future accountants and actuaries.

Because their parents were the unprotected sex having, sports car driving, "that one time in college" story having, boomers and gen Xers and like the millenials they saw what happened to them during 2008. Some people have yet to recover from it.

Financial Stability and Safety for Millenials is top priority given that our coming of age events are 9/11 and 2008.

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill0 points1 point  (18 children) | Copy Link

Squares don't have tattoos, that's pretty nice

[–]MessianicJuice5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Something like 40% of people under 30 have tattoos. Plenty of squares have tattoos. Tattoos aren't edgy anymore.

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

They aren't edgy, just garbage

[–]MessianicJuice0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Disagree, they can be done tastefully but most tattoos are lame.

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

All tattoos are garbage

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can confirm : have tattoos, am literal garbage 🗑

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Plenty of squares have tattoos.

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Garbage

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

Who do you think has them?

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

People who like garbage

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

How do you define garbage?

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Low quality

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

How do you define low quality.

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

S O M E T H I N G T H E B R A I N S E E S A S U N D E S I R A B L E

[–]MisterJose2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. Social interaction has changed. Live in a power outage for 2 weeks, and suddenly you're having actual conversations with your neighbors you never were bored enough to have before, and getting to know them as people as you never have before. These kinds of interactions with other human beings are the kind of thing that lead to sex with said human beings more often than playing Fortnite all day does. Boredom is also a thing that leads to fucking more than people often realize.

  2. The paradigm of men pursuing sex and chasing sex has kinda crashed and burned. Nowadays, either you're getting 'yes' as the answer to 'wanna fuck', or you're not. No paying for 3 dinners and being a gentleman before she lets you take her bra off anymore. For better or worse, one consequence of this is that it mentally devalues sex with women, and makes it less of a big deal. Therefore, you're more 'meh' about having it.

[–]Boomer0593 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Something stuck out to me, that 30 year old woman who is upset that the 30 year old guy wasn't good at sex.

You have to have sex and want to get better at it, to get better at it. What's likely happened, and probably still happening is women are getting sexually frustrated and not dating as much anymore. Then this causes men to not has as many opportunities to gain sexual experience.

Cycles on and on. Hence you get "guy who should know better".

[–]itsokma 1 points [recovered]  (52 children) | Copy Link

1 in 4 men are incels. I notice this and you do to if you care to look.

I've always said it's mostly men who want a relationship/marriage as it assures them of steady safe relatively inexpensive sex.

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill10 points11 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

The article stated that at least 15% have not had sex since becoming an adult. This number decreases with time from all other studids I've seen. By age 30 less than 4% of men are virgins. So I'm not sure where you got 25% of men are incels from this article.

[–]ChicagoPWriter 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

Uh. I went on dates with 2 very attractive women last month, 28yo doctor and 25yo tech guru, both virgins. One’s rationale was that she was committed to her growth (career) and the other wanted everyone to value experiences more (seeking deeper emotional connection before losing virginity). I’d venture a guess and say they’re not alone among women. I’d say 8-10% of women remain virgins until 24-25.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

she was committed to her growth (career)

This is just a bullshit excuse. If she's really serious about not wanting sex she's a closeted asexual. It's nothing to do with her career.

[–]ShabompistanExtra Moderate Purple1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As an woman engineer I agree. I work a demanding job and manage to make time for sex.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would take claims like that from women you only dated a few times with a grain of salt. I've dated women who claimed to be virgins in order to make themselves seem "pure", but after being with them for a bit longer it came to light that they had in fact had sex with a man before... if not a few of them.

[–]the_calibre_cat6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

...well, that begs the question.

What is an incel? A man who has never had sex, ever? Because there's a word for that - it's "virgin." I'd say an incel could just as easily be a man who hasn't had sex in some lengthy amount of time.

I wonder...

[–]Daffan4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

People who pay for sex are still incels, so that decreasing figure ("by age 30 less than 4% of men are virgins") as you get older is bullshit, many buckle and become pay pigs because of FOMO.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Do you have any actual proof the only reason male virginity goes down is because they pay for sex or are you just assuming that because it fits your existing views?

[–]Daffan0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's impossible for you to argue that those percentages AREN'T reduced by paying for it. Is it 1% or 20% of men paying for it we'll never know, but the point still stands that 4% is bs.

In other words, a real survey that excluded everyone who paid for it would be above 4%. Hell, if you cut out liars it could be slightly higher too but that's another story.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So you are just making baseless assumptions?

[–]Daffan1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's virtually impossible for pay pigs to not have an effect on the number. I mean, take the position that 96% of men lost their virginity by 30 without a single one paying for it if you want.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not denying there is some effect. I am denying it is as significant as you are making out.

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If paying for sex is an option, it's no longer involuntary celibacy is it . If you could pay for sex but don't, then you are voluntarily remaining celibate. Or are you suggesting incel means something else?

[–]Daffan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Incel has basically taken on a new meaning in the last two or so years, otherwise when people talk very negatively about 'incels' they'd be describing a huge portion of the population, in which I don't think they mean too.

Needs a rebranding.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is probably true. That & the options available to you via casual sex. That usually puts a damper as well. People don't dare speak what you said btw. It's considered a faux-pas, politically incorrect. Incels are dangerous, guys on long dryspells, apparently are normal/average.

  • There's no overlapping between these two categories. Society doesn't see it.

[–]avengerofhusayn6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Correct, for whatever reason, this fact cannot be integrated into mainstream thought. This is precisely the reason why the “Incel” article on Wikipedia keeps getting deleted and readded, and why the “Incel” subreddits keep getting banned.

It’s not emotional or political, it’s mechanical. Women are sacred in our society because their consent is needed for NSA sexual intercourse. The “Incel” phenomenon is tantamount to co-opting that consent (or at the very least it appears that way), and is therefore “invalid” (and also highly offensive in a knee-jerk way).

Honest to God, aside from being afflicted by one of the many edges of modern living, being able to figure out all this stuff out down to a T. is the next best thing.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You view it better than I do. I view this knowledge as extremely burdensome its not fun being being an oracle of Delphi speaking in tounges, prophetically predicting the future as people ridicule & call you crazy.

[–]apube5 points6 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

1 in 4 men are incels.

What makes you think that? I find this impossible to believe.

[–]Wandos7naproxen sodium14 points15 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I'd believe the stat that possibly, at max, 1 in 4 are chronically single and possibly no longer looking. This is based on personal observance.

I don't think it means 1 in 4 men are posting on angry manosphere boards about how much they hate women and want a robot waifu dropped into their laps on demand. That number is obviously much smaller.

[–]apube4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I'd believe the stat that possibly, at max, 1 in 4 are chronically single and possibly no longer looking. 

Frankly, even that I find incredibly hard to believe. That's more or less what I assumed he meant. Incels don't have to post online, they just have to be virgins at an odd age.

[–]Esk1mOz4mb1kFormer Nice Chad1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

FYI incel doesn't mean virgin. It means not being able to have a relationship.

Edit : my bad, see my answer to Mercedes for clarifications.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It literally stands for involuntarily celibate. Which means no sex.

[–]Esk1mOz4mb1kFormer Nice Chad3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Maybe I'm understanding celibate wrong (not a native speaker). Does that mean no sex ever?

One guy could have fucked once in a high school party with a drunk whale, if he's 28 and hasn't had sex since that on time, I would still consider him an incel because he is most likely in a similar emotional state.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Celibate means "One who abstains from sexual intercourse."

So it doesn't necessarily have to be a virgin, it's a bit open to interpretation, but it absolutely does mean lack of sex. It's nothing to do with lacking a romantic relationship.

[–]Esk1mOz4mb1kFormer Nice Chad0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Alright thanks, but you'll agree that relationship sex is way easier to obtain for low value / low self esteem men so it's not completely unrelated.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not unrelated, but you get a lot of incels trying to switch up the definition to fit their current argument. They try to make out like they are hopeless romantics instead of just upset they can't get laid. Both are valid emotions anyway. The issue I and most people have with incels is not that their lack of success in the SMP but rather their reaction to it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's involuntary celibate. So can't have sex, not that they cannot have relationships. However, this definition can then include married men but they don't count because there's a chance she may say yes.

...

Any day now

...

[–]Esk1mOz4mb1kFormer Nice Chad0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My bad, thanks for the clarification.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

99% of men are fucking by 30

[–]Whodunnit88Survivied Purge Week 201810 points11 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Maybe in your sheltered world.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

That's a statistic, my dude. Sorry if it hurt your feelings.

[–]ffbtaw 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

99% of women love anal, this is also a statistic, albeit a false one

I wish you were right.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Blantant denial of reality doesnt help your argument or your predicament

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/on-late-in-life-virginity-loss/284412/

The CDC also reports that virgins make up 12.3 percent of females and 14.3 percent of males aged 20 to 24. That number drops below 5 percent for both male and female virgins aged 25 to 29 and goes as low as 0.3 percent for virgins aged 40 to 44.

Is it just a coincidence that female virginity rates trend very closely to the same rates as men as they age?

[–]ffbtaw 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

Your own source suggests the number is closer to 4% virgins at 30 and again

This report presents national estimates of several measures of sexual behavior, sexual attraction, and sexual identity among males and females aged 15–44 years in the United States, based on the 2006–2008 National Survey of Family Growth (NSFG).

This study is way outdated.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Are you going to post evidence that the rate of adult male virginity has more than quadrupled in ten years, or just continue making guesses that make you feel good?

[–]ffbtaw 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Where did I say it quadrupled? Your claim of a 1% virginity rate at 30 isn't supported by the data

That number drops below 5 percent for both male and female virgins aged 25 to 29 and goes as low as 0.3 percent for virgins aged 40 to 44.

This suggests that at age 30 it is somewhere around 4%, simple linear interpolation.

So it was about 4% in 2008 and I wouldn't be shocked if it was closer to 8-10% today. I also suspect it will continue to get worse for at least the next 10 years.

If Japan is any indication it could be as high as 25% of over 30's being virgins within 20 years.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Read the stats.

In their thirties, men go from a 4% virginity rate to a 0.3% virginity rate. Meaning, pretty much every guy in his thirties is fucking, with some very rare exceptions. If you pay attention to the comment I was responding to, he is claiming that 20% of men in thia general bracket are "incels", which is obvious horseshit.

you're suggesting a DOUBLING of virginity rates in ten years, which would be an absolutely unheard of increase, almost impossible statistically. No surprise, you have zero evidence to back up your claim other than your personal feelings on the subject.

Please don't debate me any further without data to back up your emotions.

[–]Whodunnit88Survivied Purge Week 20180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You didn't hurt anything.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That number used to be 20.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Men at 20 also used to be gainfully employed and not living in their parents house spending their free time watching porn, playing video games and fucking around on Reddit instead of going out and socializing with people.

[–]El_Tigrex2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Because they had sex to make them believe it was worth it.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh right. I forgot. Among the PPD crowd men never do a thing unless they get sex as payment. “Most” men would be bums living on a street corner if they could still get laid. Right.

[–]El_Tigrex0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol maybe not that bad but you see plenty of MGTOW and incels talking about just working part time to make enough to get by, I think it's a valid concern.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You’re using MGTOWs and incels as an example of why men only do anything for sex??

[–]Daffan-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You mean have paid for sex? Doesn't count.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You think fully 25% of men only fuck prostitutes? That's simply delusional

[–]Daffan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Never said that I believed what that guy wrote. But 99% is bullshit.

[–]ArcticFoxBunny7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Honestly because of the internet.

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Risk vs reward. We increase the reward of taking no risk (porn, video games, Netflix, etc) and people are less willing to take the risk on human interaction, which is less guaranteed you'll enjoy it.

[–]ArcticFoxBunny1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Precisely.

[–]avengerofhusayn5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It’s because dating transactions have been so refined by ideas like PUA or the red pill (down to being predictable), that at their “optimized edge” the whole thing becomes something of a psychological maze.

tl;dr

There doesn’t seem to be much of that “free love” atmosphere (maybe from like the 60s). The notion of romance is certainly on the decline too. I’d put it up to the notion that it’s basically infinitely likely for a guy to make mistakes in dating, and mostly impossible for them to make a positive impression.

I don’t make that statement in the objective sense (meaning that I don’t believe in the standards that make that the case), I’m merely saying that that’s the case.

To put it another way: the freedom brought about by the Sexual Revolution has a backhanded component to it, and this is it.

[–]avengerofhusayn2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

On a somewhat unrelated note, I remember reading a prediction in three of the major Purāṇas, or maybe in just two different translations of the same Purāṇa, that in the Kali Yuga, “women would dominate men inside and outside the home.” (Paraphrased.)

Which is probably just a veiled reference to feminism.

I thought it was an interesting prediction. The essential claim was that women would dominate their husbands, while at the same time being unchaste.

[–]avengerofhusayn1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When Kali age sets in, people will never offer water libations to their Piṭrs. They will be devoted to womenfolk and for all appearances they will not be different from Śūdras, O, Śaunaka. Women will give birth to many children. Their good fortune will decline. If they are rebuked they will simply scratch their heads and defy all orders.

— Garuḍa Purāṇa (trans. Shastri, pub. Motilal Banarsidass)

Unchaste women will speak like chaste women to their husbands. Brāhmaṇas will harm other's wives and will sell their possessions. In Kali-yuga, people will sell their daughters. All men will be subjugated by women. Women too will be very fickle.

— Padma Purāṇa (trans. Shastri, Bhatt, and Deshpande, pub. Motilal Banarsidass)

[–]meomeowmeoww 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

video games are better than a stinky cunt

[–]QraQen20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This. Video games and porn are legitimately better than dealing with low quality, anti-social women and so many men without access to socially high end women are opting out, and good on them. Relationships with good women are still well worth it, and always will be, but I won't shed a tear for the millennial feminist harpy beasts that will inevitably die alone.

[–]a-WaltzingMatildaPurple Pill Man4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cheaper. Don’t nag when you play other games. Don’t nag when you don’t reply to their message within 30 seconds and with more words than the 4 words that constituted the answer. Don’t nag you to ‘spend more time together’. Don’t nag you about ‘you never say anything nice/do anything nice for me anymore, aren’t I attractive anymore?’. Don’t make you go to events you legitimately don’t give a shit about. Don’t take up more than half the space in your bed. Aren’t neurotically obsessed with how they look. Don’t ‘have a headache’. Don’t ‘have depression and anxiety’. Don’t make you buy a bunch of useless expensive tat to decorate your home with for a few weeks until some prettier expensive tat comes along. Doesn’t say ‘we need to get a pet/married/have children’.

Really by every objective metric, computer games are superior to relationships.

[–]hammerhauntsbread pill2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

how do you know it stinks?

[–]avengerofhusayn6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Almost off-topic, but I don’t understand why people do not pay more attention to topics like the above. If you live in the U.S.A., nothing will define your existence more than topics about culture and sexuality.

The type of thinking above is in fact the underlying dialogue for the political war (between the Left and the Right). This culture stuff is far more objective and sussable than distractions like “technology” or “science” or whatever it is people get up to.

In other countries maybe innovation is important, but not here. It’s not religious, or political, or moral, or spiritual. It’s certainly not scientific or technological. The cutting-edge in America is literally these types of cultural and socio-sexual debates. Politics isn’t even real, it’s just a veil that covers this culture war, of which the “Incel” phenomenon (and therefore Elliot Rodger) is the lynchpin.

I just don’t understand why there are so many millennials who keep focusing their energy on tech, as if adopting some sort of “Brave New World” vision of the future. As if they’re stuck in the 2000s. These people seem to believe the physical world is real and that some combination of Elon Musk and environmentalism will propel us into the cutting edge of XYZ.

tl;dr

Relevant to people who actually live in the U.S. is the debate as to whether or not the Sexual Revolution was a good thing. The cutting-edge of thought here consists of debates about culture (e.g. Alt-Right vs. feminism), not technological discovery, or the latest initiative to feed poor people in Africa or whatever. People need to optimize for where they actually are, anything else is myopic and only perpetuates the problem.

If we’ve fixed the problem of survival, we need to use that to debate the truth or whatever, and further the narrative along, not get better and better at creating creature comforts.

And yes, I do believe that the Alt-Right (slang for conservatism) is almost objectively correct about everything. And yes I do believe that this war is referred to in every religion as Armageddon or whatever. (Devas vs. Asuras, Ōhrmazd vs. Ahriman, and so on.)

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And yes, I do believe that the Alt-Right (slang for conservatism) is almost objectively correct about everything.

How does demanding a wall, banning Muslims, bashing gays, jailing black men, bitching about “Jooz” and women, marching in bedsheets and committing hate crimes all while voting for a party that gave 80% of tax breaks to top 1% help you get laid? Serious question.

[–]jkonrad-Pill4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The Last March of the Incels.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nothing defines me if I dont let it

[–]Whodunnit88Survivied Purge Week 20182 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Expectations not matching up with reality.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Does LITERALLY NO ONE remember the late eighties through the aughts?

We spent the better part of two decades, following a massive and deadly STI pandemic (AIDs) launching an educational, cultural, and social campaign to make sex seem terrifying and potentially deadly ("You'll get pregnant and die") and then have the nerve to be surprised that...yeah, actually, it kind of worked?

I get that his place draws the sex-obsessed, but my goodness, it's not THAT shocking that plenty of people aren't feeling the risk-reward calculations there. Especially when you take into account that a lot of factors that correlate with early marriages/pregnancies involve people being BORED AS FUCK, and we are now less likely to be bored as fuck, even if poor or in a rural area.

[–]mylittlemagic2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Articles like this are so weird. I don't know how old the author is but I can just imagine a tone-deaf boomer writing this as if it is a huge crisis.

Sex and relationships are an implicit transactional exchange between two parties, and there is no religious or cultural dogma that is attracting men and women together like they were before the 21st century. That is neither a good or a bad thing like some red pill ppl claim. It is just different

[–]kandyapplezborn in '91 👸 💅5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

porn.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And Amazon (toy overload)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Are the rates similar for men and women ?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Many women are choosing abstinence because they can.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

What are the rates ?

Honestly unfair as fuck. How can you complain about equal pay but not equal sex

[–]yaseedog will hunt12 points13 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

getting paid for your labour is a right; getting laid is not

[–]QraQen1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There's a big difference between slavery and favourable wages for doing equitable amounts of work (what feminists want).

[–]yaseedog will hunt1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yes?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Why is one a right and not the other? Many would disagree with you. Especially corporations. Corporations would say it isn't a right you get equal compensation as would many other groups.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Call the authorities on your boss for not paying you. Then call the authorities on a woman who won't have sex with you. See what they give a shit about.

[–]Lenins_left_nipplevolcel on the streets, crying myself to sleep-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Legality =/= morality

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So it's immoral for women to not sleep with any man who asks her?

[–]Lenins_left_nipplevolcel on the streets, crying myself to sleep0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ooh boy that's one hell of a strawman.

You used the state taking action as proof of morality, which I object to.

So it's immoral for women to not sleep with any man who asks her?

So no, obviously.

Just because I think your particular argument was shit, doesn't mean I disagree with your position.

You'd disagree with the argument: the earth is round because balls are round, yet you would agree with the conclusion: the earth is round.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

no strawman. you're initial assertion is that there's something wrong with women's choices to avoid sex

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I apologize on behalf of the universe for you being forced to have to type out such basic fundamental truth only to watch it get tragically wasted upon the minds of the abysmally ignorant.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Because you and your employer entered into a contract where you agree to give them your labor and they agree to give you money in return. You don’t walk into a company and demand they give you money because you’re entitled to it.

And guess what? If you don’t have skills that are valuable to any employer, you don’t get hired.

That analogy kinda backfired on you, huh?

[–]yaseedog will hunt0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

What analogy?

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

The right to get paid for your labor is analogous to the right to get sex

[–]yaseedog will hunt0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I was explicitly trying to say that they weren't lol

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see

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[–]passepar2t8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Millenials are killing sex!

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, but for real, they are, and this is a bigger one than the napkin industry or whatever.

[–]passepar2t2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I believe in illuminati and I think they're the ones subtly killing romance because it stands in the way of longer workdays.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The obvious solution is the return of sexutaries.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I blame the avocado toast.

[–]Pesky_GibbonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Very interesting discussion. I have a lot to say on the topic...but more research must be conducted, personally :)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

sex is declining cause women want a certain type of man which we arent.not only that, some or most men are insecure of this dick size.and cause theres porn so men dont need to go chase out for women when they got porn,video games to distract them.

[–]praisethesun799Not actually a fag 😉-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The guy is stuck up and shy and like a lot of people here doesn't know how to have fun, he needs to learn to dance and do mdma or something

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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