TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

41

Hello, I am a romantically unsuccessful guy. I'm in my mid twenties and have been single for most of my life. There have only been a handful of women interested in me ever. Most of those relationships never progressed very far, due to my shyness. But thanks to TRP, I understand my failure to escalate when shown IOIs, is why I missed a lot of potential relationships.

I would love to find a significant other, but it seems like so much work. Working out, having multiple hobbies, being financially well off, cold approaching, being witty and confident, being her best option, being Alpha, going to social events, and a bunch of other stuff.

It is so much work. As someone who has been alone forever... I have to ask... is it all worth it? I've only been in love once and had it reciprocated. It was amazing, but it has been so long... and I've grown so emotionally cold, I no longer remember the warmth. I know it felt good, but it is a ghost to me.

Sometimes I get lonely. Not often, but it happens. I'm a bit of an introvert and I enjoy my own company, so I hardly think about it. But some nights, like tonight, it hits me like a truck. The hopelessness, the depression, the loneliness, it slowly smothers me and the realization of how unlovable and undesirable I am hurts.

But even still, I would like to find someone that likes me for me. Someone to understand me and kiss me. Someone to help and love. To tackle the bleakness of the world with.

So I have to ask: is all this effort men put into finding a partner worth it? It seems like a sisyphean task, at least for me at least. But before I give up, I would like to hear another's opinion.

Is love really worth the trouble?


[–]starseedlove47 points48 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like you're really close to hitting that realization point where it stops being about finding the right partner, and about finding yourself. It's not really a WASTE to do all that stuff you mentioned, but doing it with the hopes it will attract a mate or you will find love out there, is the "wrong" reason. I put "wrong" in quotes, because you are more than welcome to try it if you feel motivated, it will just lead you to the same realization you are at now. That it didn't get you what you thought you wanted.

This disillusionment is a necessary step.

But even still, I would like to find someone that likes me for me. Someone to understand me and kiss me. Someone to help and love. To tackle the bleakness of the world with.

There's a book I'm reading now called "Deeper Dating" - which is about stepping outside of the seduction model of dating and into authenticity and intimacy. We can tick off all those "alpha" boxes and get the 9/10, but at what cost? Will we be sure she loves us for us? Or because we successfully molded ourselves into what she wants?

The phrase "just be yourself" is generally frowned upon on Reddit and TRP. But there is truth to it. If you want to fully be seen and loved by a woman, you have to learn how to accept all of you. Even those "beta" traits and all the parts you think make you ugly and unloveable. So I think you are already on that journey. You can see the writing on the wall that it's pointless to do all those things, coming from a place of fear/lack/emptiness.

But you'll find that when you get into the self-love/acceptance practice, you will start to WANT to do those things for yourself, because you feel inspired to do it. It will just be a natural byproduct of your self-care. Your confidence will increase because you are comfortable with your dark side, your weakness, your vulnerability. You won't fear it. You'll have less anxiety. You'll be more grounded and authentic, which is seen as alpha frame, because you're not trying to be anyone you're not.

I think you're really close. Keep following that inner guidance.

[–]von19 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

But you'll find that when you get into the self-love/acceptance practice, you will start to WANT to do those things for yourself, because you feel inspired to do it. It will just be a natural byproduct of your self-care.

Some of those things I already do for myself.

  1. I started lifting and going to the gym because of TRP, originally it was for women. But I've come to enjoy it, and feel every guy should make it a habit to pick up heavy shit. Also, recently, my female coworkers have begun commenting on my body and stroking my arms, which is a big confidence boost.

  2. I've always had an active inner world, so I have a lot of hobbies: reading, video games, writing, drawing, programming, piano. Next year I'm planning to take up Muay thai because I'm in such great shape.

We can tick off all those "alpha" boxes and get the 9/10, but at what cost? Will we be sure she loves us for us? Or because we successfully molded ourselves into what she wants?

Yes, this is something I've been wrestling with as well.

I think you're really close. Keep following that inner guidance.

Thank you.

[–]Mr_White119811Hugh Mungus4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I started lifting and going to the gym because of TRP, originally it was for women. But I've come to enjoy it, and feel every guy should make it a habit to pick up heavy shit. Also, recently, my female coworkers have begun commenting on my body and stroking my arms, which is a big confidence boost.

Same here, well gym and martial arts. AT the start I just thought people would think I was awesome or some shit. Then it developed into doing it for the pleasure of doing it. But if I had never had those insecurities in the first place, I would never of started.

Next year I'm planning to take up Muay thai because I'm in such great shape.

Awesome. I hope you looking forward to discovering the nuances of pain.

[–]Science_Fanatic4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Be yourself is true. Have strong ideals and live by them. It is one of the most important things in life.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If you don't have strong ideals or are a weak person, being yourself won't work.

Somehow people expect it to mean 'be the confident, awesome you that you actually are' when people generally have vices as well.

What if the real you just wants to get high, play video games and jerk off all day?

[–]Science_Fanatic4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Then rethink your life choices.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So, don't be yourself then? This runs counter to your earlier assertion that:

Be yourself is true.

Then you said:

Then rethink your life choices.

This is better advice than be yourself. Be yourself doesn't encourage change for the better and it's not honest.

Even if you intend it to mean good things, it's too vague and can be misinterpreted. For example, the aforementioned slacker may believe that he's fine as he is.

[–]mathlel 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

What kind of strong ideals keeps you shitposting in edgelord subreddits?

[–]Science_Fanatic3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My twisted sense of humour. It is one of my flaws.

[–]messiahslave2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not really a WASTE to do all that stuff you mentioned, but doing it with the hopes it will attract a mate or you will find love out there, is the "wrong" reason.

This, I have always live in "my mind" so to speak and I was kind of ok being at the university doing research, giving some lectures and so on.

I was tired of being alone and all I did to improve was to "get the girl", I was unaware of pill theory and all this stuff.

So I got myself a job outside the university, started lifting and doing BJJ.

Years later I'm still incel but I keep training hard for the sake of it, I love it, I made good mate there (my best friend), I enjoyed experiecing working a lot and earning a lot more than I used to.

Overall, it is the wrong reason but in the end 1° it opens my eyes on what attraction was even without knowing all pill theories 2° it overall improves my life and I keep doing it for the sake of it 3° it makes me realise who I was and kind of accept it.

So yeah, totaly agree with the statement quote but I just wanted to add that even if someone do all the improvement stuff for the wrong reasons, that's still worth it cause there is a huge chance that you will be happy to have done this stuff and will keep doing them for the good reasons.

Just my 2 cents on the subject.

[–]SkrattGoddess4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Tbh I thought TRP was about sexual strategy. I don't think they're looking to marry these women after smashing them.

[–]TheBookOfSeilAn ounce of Snu Snu is worth a pound of cure4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP is just a tool. You can use it to smash things, or you can use it to fix things. How you use it is up to you.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No it's not worth the effort men that take on women as a responsibility do so at a cost to themselves. Remember that & assess your situation accordingly.

[–]atheist_terry_ascend0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No I cannot check those boxes off and get a 9/10.

[–]mgtow_123 points24 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

No one is going to like you for you and nothing else. You must add value to the person's life for them to like you.

As to your question of is it worth it? That is mostly an individual question you must answer for yourself.

[–]von19 1 points [recovered]  (9 children) | Copy Link

No one is going to like you for you and nothing else. You must add value to the person's life for them to like you.

Well this is depressing.

As to your question of is it worth it? That is mostly an individual question you must answer for yourself.

I understand that, but in your opinion, Is it worth it for you?

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well this is depressing.

Not really. It is just reality. We choose to become close to people because they add value to our lives. Would you hang with your friends if they never wanted to engage in any of your hobbies? Same concept here.

To answer your title I personally think relationships are worth it if you find the right woman.

[–]concacanca2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Spot on. I actually have think moat men only really have 2 needs that need to be met and the rest is just nice to haves so it isn't even that hard to find someone who meets those

[–]Physiologymatters4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

On what planet do people form close bonds with people who don't add any kind of value to their life? Where tf did this idea come from that there doesn't have to be done kind of positive association in order for someone to invest time in you?

Dude, the only people who latch on to someone who isn't already an asset do it because you can be easily used, then you're gonna end up being all sad and broken inside. You NEED to be with people who have standards in order to have a reciprocal relationship, that's not something to be scared of it's something to seek out

[–]von19 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think I'm confused on what you mean by adding value. What do you guys mean specifically?

[–]Physiologymatters1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Like pleasant to be around, opens my eyes to new experiences/ways of thinking, controls their negative traits so they're not dragging me down. Basically if my day is better or I'm happier after seeing them than I was before, they have added value to my life

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

On what planet do people form close bonds with people who don't add any kind of value to their life?

a lot of guys are such low value that just the fact that they have friends adds value. any warm body will work, because having shitty low quality friends is better than being a complete loser with zero social life. these guys don't understand that higher value people aren't just trying to increase the quantity of their friends, and are actually looking for more value than just having one more friend.

a big tell for these lower value guys is that their friend groups consist mostly of guys who are default friends. they're childhood friends, or classmates, or co-workers. they are friends with whatever low quality people were forced to be in close proximity and interact with each other on a regular basis.

[–]Physiologymatters0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know that happens but I don't know if that type of default friendship counts as a close bond.

[–]PMmeareasontolive1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No one is going to like you for you and nothing else. You must add value to the person's life for them to like you. Well this is depressing.

"Adding value" is just an effort to discuss the subject objectively.

I always used the criterion; "Is this fun?"

Or if not fun, is it going to be rewarding for some reason, the way long term goals sometimes defer fun for some other personal enrichment.

Those are more objective ways of saying the same thing. It just sounds depressing when you first hear it put in economic terms.

[–]Loban8990Black Pill7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Personally its not worth it. Ive heard way too many stories of good man, great men, better than me in everyway shape and form getting dumped and divorced raped, because she fell out of love or got bored. Ive also seen this happen to family members.

One of my cousins, another great guy had a kid with his High School girlfriend, he stayed and took care of the kid, and she still took the kid and ran off. I'm seeing the same thing happen to an Uncle of mine as well. He's the manager of a large company that operates in multiple countries, he's not super rich but his family is well off, they want for nothing and yet his wife, My aunt, has cheated on him multiple times and poisoned his two daughters against him. I grew up without a father, they have a father they provides and they hate him.

Are relationships worth it? Thats a question you're going to have to answer for yourself. All I can give you are my opinions and examples for why I have those opinions. Check out this video.

[–]DXBrigade3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

They are people who don't do any of that and are in a relationship. The only thing really necessary is to be confident and ask women out. You should improve for yourself first, women are just a bonus.For example, If you hate working out that much then don't do it. You should also learn to be happy as a single guy.

[–]von19 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

The only thing really necessary is to be confident and ask women out.

I dont consider myself especially confident but I do ask women out.

You should improve for yourself first, women are just a bonus. For example, If you hate working out that much then don't do it. You should also learn to be happy as a single guy.

I am usually very happy by myself, I am just occasionally very lonely. And I will continue to improve my life regardless, because I want a nice life.

[–]Aufbruch0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Get a cat or a dog, maybe?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Whether it's worth it depends on the individual's personal goals and priorities.

What do you mean "like you for you"? Is your goal to find someone who loves you and stays with you regardless of what you do and whether or not you improve their life?

[–]von19 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

What do you mean "like you for you"?

Do you feel doing so much to attract someone is a wise investment? For you, personally.

Is your goal to find someone who loves you and stays with you regardless of what you do and whether or not you improve their life?

No. I wouldn't ask for a love so selfish. But I wouldn't be opposed to it, some love is probably better than no love at this point.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Like me for who I am as a person.

What does that mean?

No. I wouldn't ask for a love so selfish. But I wouldn't be opposed to it, some love is probably better than no love at this point.

If you feel that way, you've answered your own question.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

None of those things you talk about are necessary. Getting a relationship doesn’t have to be much work at all. Whether it is something you want is for you as an individual to decide.

[–]von19 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

None of those things you talk about are necessary. Getting a relationship doesn’t have to be much work at all. Whether it is something you want is for you as an individual to decide.

True. But a relationship is not going to fall out of thin air either.

[–]xKalistoSAHM of Yurop1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

True, but being rich and buffed isn't gonna bring you relationship unless you socialise and look for one.

I know confident buffed dudes that aren't in a relationship.

I know very well of dudes that aren't in a relationship.

Sometimes the girl is somewhere and hard to find.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

As a confident, well off, buff dude myself - we have options. A relationship with a top tier woman is great, but those are hard to find. Men of our status are doing the ones turning down relationships. I regularly end things with pretty good looking women because they dont meet my standards

[–]ItsOverBoyosLDAR 1 points [recovered]  (16 children) | Copy Link

Spoken like a true Chad. Must be nice winning the genetic lottery.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Lmao what he said is true for the vast majority of men. It's the minority at the bottom who find it hard work.

[–]JaJammerJan 1 points [recovered]  (9 children) | Copy Link

How old are you? The amount of men that struggle with dating/sex is growing rapidly and hardly an insignificant minority

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

How old are you?

Mid 20's.

Finland

What the fuck does Finland have to do with the US and UK where most of us live?

Also sexually inactive does not automatically mean incel. Could be religious or some shit. I have no idea about Finnish culture, doubt you do either.

[–]JaJammerJan 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

Myeah I am sure they are all sexually inactive due to religious reasons. Lmfao, I am not suprised someone as unworldly as you has no idea what Finnish culture entails.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I am sure they are all sexually inactive due to religious reasons.

What reason do you have for assuming they are not? What reason do you have for assuming they're incels instead? Where's the data to back it?

someone as unworldly as you

Lmao so you are a true man of the world are you? You didn't just cherrypick that data because it supports your existing views, you are an expert in all world cultures? Give me a break.

[–]JaJammerJan 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

What reason do you have for assuming they are not? What reason do you have for assuming they're incels instead? Where's the data to back it?

What reason do you have for assuming they are? What reason do you have for assuming they are not incels? Where's the data to back it?

You didn't just cherrypick that data because it supports your existing views, you are an expert in all world cultures? Give me a break.

Apparantly you need to be an expert in world cultures to interpret data that clearly shows that the amount of men having 2 or more sex partners in a year has halved, while for women it remained the same.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

What reason do you have for assuming they are? What reason do you have for assuming they are not incels? Where's the data to back it?

Right so you agree the data is inconclusive. Good. Now we're getting somewhere!

Apparantly you need to be an expert in world cultures to interpret data that clearly shows that the amount of men having 2 or more sex partners in a year has halved, while for women it remained the same.

I am saying that Finnish culture surely differs a lot from the Anglo culture most of us live in so trying to apply our values to their culture is a fool's errand.

[–]JaJammerJan 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

How does Finnish culture differ so much from Anglo Culture that this data is unuseable.

Does Anglo culture differ too much from the culture in France? Germany? Italy? Spain?

Perhaps the culture difference between different cities within England are already too large! We can only use data that's been collected in the city you live in.

No wait, everyone knows that one bad district in the city that has a different 'culture', that district must be skewing the data! We should only look for data from our own neighbourhood?

etc etc. Your argument is pointless because you can apply it to ridiculous to degree to reject all data that doesn't support your viewpoint, like you are doing right now.

'But it's not peer reviewed!' 'But the sample size is only 10.000 instead of 100.000!' 'But they didn't properly account for interviewees lying!'

etc, no point argueing with you.

[–]ItsOverBoyosLDARKeep calm and get cucked by Chad0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lmao. No, it's not.

[–]LeaneGenovaBreaker of (comment) Chains[M] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nope. None of this incel bullshit. Take it elsewhere.

[–]Skratt 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh fuck off. -.-

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad you got some good stuff out of TRP (how to recognize when a woman is flirting with you). That said, you don't need to do all the TRP hoop-jumping to have a relationship, especially if you aren't looking for The Hottest Girl In The Bar, but would be happy with, say, a girl who's kind of quiet and introverted like you and you have stuff in common with.

Think on this: were you going through the full TRP rigamarole when these women were flirting with you and you didn't know it? No? Then clearly you can ALREADY attract women you'd be interested in--you just need to work on your shyness so you can meet more/ make a relationship stick with one of them.

[–]von19 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Think on this: were you going through the full TRP rigamarole when these women were flirting with you and you didn't know it? No? Then clearly you can ALREADY attract women you'd be interested in--you just need to work on your shyness so you can meet more/ make a relationship stick with one of them.

This is an interesting point and something I've failed to consider. It makes me a bit happy, because perhaps I am not as unlovable as I thought.

As for my shyness, I've taken steps to fix it. Cold approaching for one. But actually meeting new people and getting to know them seems like the biggest hurdle.

[–]panzershark1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just wanted to chime in on this. I was like that too, and still am to an extent. I was a shy introvert who had no idea how to talk to people or get to know them. It took some work and practice. I read books, like How to Win Friends and Influence People (I know people talk about this one constantly.) I read countless forums, subreddits, etc.

Now I’m a lot better at talking to people and making friends. I think I’m actually pretty warm and approachable in the right setting (aka not at work.) Something I’ve realized is that everyone wants to feel important. They want to love, belong, just like you do. They have their own shit to deal with, they have fears, just like every single human. Realizing these things and really focusing on that helped me break down my barriers when it came to talking to people and getting to know them. Getting older definitely helped too. People really enjoy it when you ask them how they’re doing and when you take a genuine interest in them, because chances are, not a lot of people always do. So be interested in others. Try to make your goal to learn about them and make them feel safe to to talk to you. This doesn’t mean making it an interrogation, but I think starting there will do a lot.

Sorry for the rambling, your comment just really resonated with me. Good luck, homie!

Here to talk if you ever want someone to bounce ideas off of

[–]Physiologymatters1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You need to learn about human nature and socialization patterns...like, from a textbook, cuz you don't know how to interpret or respond to stuff irl. You sound about as savvy as little red riding hood

[–]Mr_White119811Hugh Mungus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Think on this: were you going through the full TRP rigamarole when these women were flirting with you and you didn't know it? No? Then clearly you can ALREADY attract women you'd be interested in--you just need to work on your shyness so you can meet more/ make a relationship stick with one of them.

I dwelve on that thought a lot. When I was younger and anxious as fuck, women were initially attracted. But it was my shyness and anxiety that scared them away.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most TRP dudes are not looking for love, they want to bang sluts and then the ones that want kids want to find a chick to give them babies then after a few years when they are bored with their agreeable spouse who produced babies for them they want to go back and bang sluts. So TRP is not going to helps you find love because they don't care about all that. Women are interchangable so it makes no difference to them who they are banging, they are just dick parking lots who you should not really listen to.

But if you think you are going to find somebody to understand you and tackle the bleakness of the world with that is a huge ask, it is pretty rare among even long term couples that they fully understand one another. They often think they do.

For many terpers women are just there for sex and if they weren't getting sex women are useless, not interesting, and inferior. They don't define love the way you do, women are objects, blank slates.

The way you define love might be getting in your way though.

[–]sketch1620002 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Most TRP dudes are not looking for love, they want to bang sluts and then the ones that want kids want to find a chick to give them babies then after a few years when they are bored with their agreeable spouse who produced babies for them they want to go back and bang sluts.

I don't think this is exactly accurate. I think that most guys wanted to find true, real love at some point (probably still do) but found that behaving like a man whore is far more effective than going around like a hopeless romantic. Similar to OP.

[–]goatismycopilotJohnI'monlydancing1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you say so the OP has some weird ideas so you could be right.

[–]bonerdude4204 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Working out, having multiple hobbies, being financially well off

These are things you should be working on regardless of if you want to pursue women or not. It determines your quality of life.

On that theme, nobody cares if you choose to be single. But you should still make yourself attractive, it's good for your physical and mental health, self esteem, professional and personal relationships (including non romantic)

Hell, being attractive isn't even a pre-requisite for a relationship. Plenty of ugly ass losers out there doing well

[–]Pastelitomaracucho2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is love really worth the trouble?

No it is not.

This does not mean go full MGTOW. This means, once you got your shit together and you meet the right people, love should become an effortless, natural ride. It is not worth being a loser and giving all your heart and soul into convincing someone to be with you when honestly, no one wants you.

I would love to find a significant other, but it seems like so much work.

This is where you have all mixed up. Finding someone being unattractive IS SO MUCH WORK. Once you got your shit together, you gain momentum in life and going through it becomes so much easier. Yes, you need to work to keep the momentum, but this is much better than the other option.

People will like you for what you are, but there is less probability of people liking fat losers compared to people liking financially-secure, fit men. It's up to you how you want to play those odds, but to me, life seems a lot harder with odds stacked against me.

[–]quasirealikecreature2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm of the opinion that it depends on the people involved.

If you're grouping "women" together as one similar category and just hoping to snag one without really caring what she's like then no, it probably wouldn't be worth it anymore than a girl dating you just because she wants a boyfriend and not to be lonely. I don't think anyone wants that. If you meet someone you genuinely like then it could be worth it.

[–]GayLubeOilTrue Red Pill2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Go to Latin America or South East Asia and it will take zero effort.

[–]toronto87 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ya go to asia and find a gold digger lmao. What a tool

[–]Chaddeus_Rex0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol as if all women aren't "gold diggers" or "status whores".

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

> Is love really worth the trouble?

Nah, definitely not. Especially if you have to put in all this work and hate your life while others find it easy and actually enjoy themselves.

Do you know what really is worth it? Tacos. Mmmmm

[–]von19 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Nah, definitely not. Especially if you have to put in all this work and hate your life while others find it easy and actually enjoy themselves.

I sadly agree. It seems to come so naturally to everyone else.

Do you know what really is worth it? Tacos. Mmmmm

Now you're talking.

[–]xKalistoSAHM of Yurop0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I sadly agree. It seems to come so naturally to everyone else.

You know sometimes people try to have a baby for so long that it takes giving up a just living their life for it to work out.

Maybe focusing more on yourself and living your life you'll meet someone on random.

[–]von19 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

This was the first thing I tried. But TRP made me realize that being passive in your love life is a recipe for disaster. It's highly unlikely that a relationship will fall out of thin air. Especially considering how dense I am, a women could be flirting with me for months and I'd probably never know. So now I actively ask out girls that I like.

[–]xKalistoSAHM of Yurop0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well that is good too. I understand that it can be discouraging when you lack success. But imho it's worth it.

Even geeks and otakus around me are mostly paired off, some with regular normie gals too.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well this is depressing

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

So, this is a troll answer or are you making a point? Being exclusionary isn't pleading your case & he's actually right in many ways.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

My point is that if he hates his life trying to get a woman it's not worth it. All this hard work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

That makes no sense. You're saying he hates his life. Your implying that from his statements.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm not telling him anything. I'm suggesting IF he hates his life doing this shit he should seek alternatives as a suggestion. If he doesn't then whatever my comment should be ignored and moved on as it doesn't apply.

Reading comprehension is an invaluable skill

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not really the issue, your answers are evasive & also complete non-sequiturs from the point at hand. You can't blame anyone but yourself for the miscommunication.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Non sequitur or are you just not comprehending my points. There's a difference.

Also using words like non-sequitur doesn't make you sound smart, especially if you don't actually know what it really means. It's very common on places like reddit. Also applies to "ad hominem" and "dunning-kruger" amongst others; most redditers don't even know what those things actually mean. But every redditer is an intellectual (ugh) aren't they?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ive fallen into solitary once in my life tho it wasnt so long that ive lost the feeling of it and reading helps me remember those familair feelings. I miss being truly loved, i miss loving someone and i miss kissing him. I miss everything about it that i try my hardest to remember how it feels like.

Whenever i have this doubts in my head that maybe i should just stay single, the effort to look like your always cheerful, the effort to be always fit and the effort to smile was too much that i just wanna be single forever but then i remember would rather keep trying than give up all those good feeling i felt to this empty sadness i would find in being single? Heck no.

But im a women so basically im just a fish in the ocean.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it depends on your situation and your personality. For instance, do you want to have a family? It seems the ideal way to go about it is in a two-parent home. If you're indifferent to the thought of having kids, marriage becomes much more optional.

Do you need a partner to fulfill your mission in life? In my world, the world of dairy farming, there's an old saying, "Never have more cows than your wife can milk." Taken at face value, this seems to be an admonition to not be overly ambitious, but I think it's also a warning to select a spouse whose ambitions match yours. If you want a big farm, you'd better find a sturdy wife ...

[–]woyspawn1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Working out, having multiple hobbies, being financially well off, cold approaching, being witty and confident, being her best option, being Alpha, going to social events, and a bunch of other stuff.

That's only for Chad wannabe. Just step out to the real world. You can be a fat and bold fucker and still have a girlfriend. You won't have ONS, and you'll need to aim lower than if you presented your best you, but that's only fair.

Self improvement isn't for the pussy, it's for yourself. To stop being a worthless piece of shit.

[–]killallthenarcs1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No-one with any sense is going to answer that question for you. It is down to you to come up with your answer, that applies to you.

The majority of the things you would do to get a woman are also useful to you personally when it comes to living a successful prosperous life in which you are able to be happy with yourself, your health, your options.

How about you do this... make a big list and strike out all the things that are useful ONLY for finding women. The rest of it? Start doing that stuff. Work out, have hobbies, find ways to address your general shyness, have a social life. That way you improve your life for your own sake AND keep the way clear to change your mind if ever you want to.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No one with sense, why not?

[–]killallthenarcs0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Because it puts someone else on the hook for whether the decision is the right one... and the decision is too pivotal and too reliant on intimate knowledge of a person's needs, limits and priorities to be best made by anyone other than the person it has the most impact on.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your ratcheting up the tension too much. Maybe they're just looking for insight. Not a final decision on the subject.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sex is definitely worth it, as it vastly improves your life in all aspects. Relationships are good in 2% of the cases, a net loss in 98% of them, and not necessary imo

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[–]JTRonald0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

A relationship is partially what you makes of it, you build the value, by selection and actions. It’s not very helpful to ask are woman and relationship worth it, since you are part of the dynamic equation.

It’s more like can you build it? Are you worth meeting, exchanging, living with? If you want to fill a hole in yourself it’s probably just a cope to feel good.

I am not reading any other answer but don’t believe that it’s society fault, or the culture is dead or whatever, you are a dynamic agent, just fight for what you want, and take it.

[–]von19 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

A relationship is partially what you makes of it, you build the value, by selection and actions. It’s not very helpful to ask are woman and relationship worth it, since you are part of the dynamic equation.

Yes, you are right. But I was more so asking do people feel the effort is reasonable for themselves.

I am not reading any other answer but don’t believe that it’s society fault, or the culture is dead or whatever, you are a dynamic agent, just fight for what you want, and take it.

I do not blame anyone outside of myself. I just figured I am not attractive or worth loving to most women. I am fighting, but I am so tired, it feels like it would be better to give up at this point.

[–]JTRonald0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

To answer directly, yes I think the effort is worth it, because it’s fun, moving in the world trying to build your vision into reality and relationships are part of the package.

I don’t see this as an effort, like most people in my teen I was shy, and not popular at all beside in whatever weird social niche I was in. Finding a greater overall meaning usually solve the problem. I have never fixed relationship problem by being focused on relationships, find or make a great career, read more interesting things, do something else and forget relationships.

Obviously it’s hard to succeed on your term... but what else do you really have to do on earth really? You will have to work, engage, improve self actualize.. so better do it in the way you choose.

You may also get tired of being tired of all of this and may decide to turn your life around, I think you should leave this sub for awhile a find good ideas/figure that inspire more profound ideas in you, because no suggestion can really makes you a man, for whatever that means for you.

[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are relationships and by extension women worth the effort?

No.

Focus on loving yourself. Finding a partner may feel like a win, but most of the times it isn't. If you end up with a woman who constantly nags, drags your account empty, you clearly see that it would not be worthy at the expense of your own well-being.

And even if the woman end up being a decent person, all those efforts to get her could have been redirected to something more productive.

Even if the woman ends up being a decent person you would have to sacrifice a lot to make the relationship work. They're called compromises and they more than often do not make you happy.

You're only asking yourself that question because your sex drive and the model showed off in media led you to seek for a woman or "you are not complete".

Break free and go your own way.

[–]FearlessStranger0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Laziness is a big problem for todays youth. Get your are in gear!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is love really worth the trouble?

No, it isn't. It's nice to have someone with who to share some benefits once in a while like a roommate or something, but take risks into account and see what comes from a purely Cost/Risks/Benefits analysis.

I'm in the same kind of trouble than you are, but having a mate with who i go shooting once in a while is nice

And if you're like me, you tend to see loneliness as some kind of mindless, purposeless freedom.

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The truth is misery is comfortable. Anyone can rationalize why change “isn’t worth it”. It sounds like if you want a girlfriend, you’ll have to change significant parts of yourself. That’s the truth.

[–]atheist_terry_ascend0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rarely but yes for some. If you’re monogamous and on the same page yes.

[–]PMmeareasontolive0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm in my late 50's and the relationships I've had have been some of the highlights of my life. So I'd say they are worth it.

I operated on the assumption that there would be people out there with whom I'd be exceptionally compatible, and we would mutually recognize that without too much difficulty.

I didn't do all that stuff, and I was/am somewhat shy and introverted, so my relationships were few and far between, which was often a drag.

But when I managed to stumble into them they were great.

tldr; they are worth it so do what you can to improve your chances but don't make yourself miserable.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

what exactly is so difficult? meeting people isn’t difficult , getting to know isn’t , eventually dating isn’t .

arguing and compromising is normal in every type of relationship not only romantic ones

i don’t understand exactly what you mean lol

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Working out, having multiple hobbies, being financially well off, cold approaching, being witty and confident, being her best option, being Alpha, going to social events, and a bunch of other stuff.

dude all of those things are enjoyable regardless of whether or not it may help you be more successful with women. it may take some effort, but everything worthwhile takes effort.

if you don't want to do any work, what do you want to do? just be a lazy sack of shit who just sits on a couch and does nothing all day? that's fucking disgusting and pathetic. and if that's what you're mostly doing right now, that's probably a HUGE part of why you are all depressed and lonely and hopeless. it's NOT because you don't have a woman. if a woman suddenly appeared, it wouldn't fix your life. you wouldn't suffenly become happy and fulfilled with some pussy.

Working out,

it IS hard work, that's kinda the point. but it is very good for your health, physical, mental, and emotional. not even talking about looking better. you will feel better about yourself and more confident and energetic. and once you get into it, you will start to enjoy it and want to work out

having multiple hobbies,

jesus why would you complain about this. hobbies are literally fun activities that you do because you enjoy doing them

being financially well off,

yes, it requires effort, but come on man.

cold approaching,

yes, talking to girls can be scary at first. but that's only because you don't have experience doing it. you need to face your fear and get over the hump and it will stop being scary and start being exciting and fun.

being witty and confident,

why wouldn't you want to be witty and confident as possible?

being her best option,

you want to have a girl who likes you for you, who will cuddle with you and help you face the bleakness of the world.

but why do you think she would want to be with you if you weren't her best option? that doesn't make any sense.

if there were two girls who were equally into you, but one is cute and sweet while the other is a fugly bitch, would you ever choose the fugly bitch over the cute sweet one? of course not. you would always choose the best option, so why do you think any girl would choose you if she had better options? you're like the fugly bitchy chick.

and wouldn't you want to be her best option? wouldn't you want to be the guy that she wants to be with? would you really be happy if she was cuddling with you and holding your hand and all that gay shit, but in her head she's thinking about some other dude and wishing she was with him instead?

being Alpha,

again, why wouldn't you want to be as alpha as you can be?

going to social events

parties are fun. socializing is fun. hanging out and doing activities and talking to your friends is fun.

don't be like a typical socially anxious socially retarded reddit nerd and be like "muh introversion" because that's bullshit. the only reason you don't like social events is because you are bad at socializing and unfamiliar with the environment because you don't do it enough. quit being a scared bitch and force yourself to go to more social events and participate more and you will quickly get over this BS and start to enjoy it.

[–]Mr-LBN0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like the OP has depression which is why most of what he mentioned doesn't seem enjoyable. Some people no matter how much they practice/go through the motions don't enjoy these events as much as the norm.

the only reason you don't like social events is because you are bad at socializing and unfamiliar with the environment because you don't do it enough. quit being a scared bitch and force yourself to go to more social events and participate more and you will quickly get over this BS and start to enjoy it.

Maybe. I tried this with the bar scene, and still don't really like it so he may have the same feeling when attempting to party. Sometimes people actually don't enjoy something they get better at socially. Hell my hobbies literally piss me off, and there's no way around that (they're not even social either).

I kinda empathize with OP.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would love to find a significant other, but it seems like so much work. Working out, having multiple hobbies, being financially well off, cold approaching, being witty and confident, being her best option, being Alpha, going to social events, and a bunch of other stuff.

So do you mean you dont do exercise, are not focused on your career, dont go to social events and dont have any hobbies? Forget about women for a moment, you are still young now but if you dont do any of these things you have about five years before you are some kind of weird shut-in basement dweller.

The key to red pill is that you dont do these things FOR women, you do them for yourself. Being romantically successful is a side-effect of having a full and varied lifestyle.

[–]Autistic_ReeeeeeeeeeRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately women will never love you like you want to be loved. This is the hardest thing to realise when understanding female psychology. Their love for you is conditional. Once you truly understand the meaning of this you will understand that this is all a game. Unfortunately for you some people are better at the game than other.

To answer your question "Is love really worth the trouble?".

The answer is yes.

TRP is more like guide lines than rules. Everything they tell you to do increases your chances with women to such an extent that it is almost guaranteed you will find someone you can enjoy. The hard part is keeping it up. but TRP is not about women. It is about you.

The point is, You will never find a women who really loves your for you. Once you realise this cold hard fact of life you will understand what you yourself want to achieve and what women you allow to cling to you for the ride.

[–]912750 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is love really worth the trouble?

No.

So I have to ask: is all this effort men put into finding a partner worth it?

No, but they do it regardless. It's how they they are programmed.

Need for love is the stick nature uses to beat us into procreating.

[–]openflames000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A good partner fits into your life and shouldn't be a time sink as they'll value a lot of the same activities. That person can help you progress in life, keep your accountable and humble. Find someone who works with you and not against you and I believe yes, it will be worth it. All relationships are work, but finding a person worth working on it with is key to a happy and more fulfilling life for the benefit they provide.

However if you're finding it hard, the problem is likely you. Being introverted is fine but if socializing or dating is unpleasant to the point of being anxiety inducing you could have a problem (albeit a common one). If women often reject you it could be that you pick the wrong ones to pursue or that there's something off with your personality. To some degree "be yourself" if useful advice - you shouldn't compromise your core. But change isn't inherently bad. I'd do some soul-searching if I were you. Therapy is a great place to start for this, especially if you find your lonely and depressed because of it. Good luck

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

By your way to talk, I would say you are around the late 20's, so I would say, it is not worth it anymore, you already lost all your chances bud, unfortunately, I would say it is better to focus on a career, and look for some woman get to you when she wants to settle. You have limited time and energy now. Do not waste.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It does not get that much work if your standards are not super high. Seriously all this alpha stuff is about finding very hot but shallow women. You may not find my wife attractive but she is kind. Just avoid college educated women. As for if it worths it, well, I have no mission, no passion in my life so for me it was essential to find a wife and have a kid or else I had no direction at all.

[–]hepaticfeedback 1 points [recovered]  (15 children) | Copy Link

"Relationships and by extension women"? Yikes.

[–]PearsOfWrath8 points9 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Trust me there is little reason for most men to want to interact with women past flirting, relationships, and sex.

[–]SkrattGoddess5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Ew.

[–]JaJammerJan 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Truth is harsh. Whether it's sports, carreer or enjoying leisure time. Most men would much rather do all that with other men than women.

[–]SkrattGoddess0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's the exact same with women, but we don't need men for sex/relationships either.

[–]JaJammerJan 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Because all women are bisexual?

[–]SkrattGoddess0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

XD

[–]atheist_terry_ascend0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s true though. If women were men basically, like no sexual appeal, and y’all behaved the way you guys do still it’d be so acceptable for men to generalize and be bigots towards you. None of us would give a fuck.

[–]hepaticfeedback 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

Women are your bosses, doctors, police officers, teachers..."most" men have no problems with that. I think you'd be surprised by how unpopular an opinion misogyny actually is.

[–]atheist_terry_ascend0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Those are men who aren’t being honest with themselves and afraid of looking bigoted

[–]PearsOfWrath-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Women are your bosses, doctors, police officers, teachers..."most" men have no problems with that.

Well I don't really either. By interaction I mainly meant like for friendly chats, or for discussions, or as friends. General recreation and social interaction, not dealing with women in occupations.

Personally I'm more likely to want to interact with a female police officer because she's more likely to let me go, but that has nothing to do with my primary point.

Women as bosses? Most men prefer male bosses (women too.) Teachers? If I actually want to learn a subject I definitely prefer a man. Doctors, same. If its serious, definitely a man would be better. If it's not, probably a woman because of more empathy.

But I mainly meant for general social interaction, not in occupations.

[–]hepaticfeedback 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Just as many people prefer woman bosses to male bosses: https://news.gallup.com/poll/222425/americans-no-longer-prefer-male-boss-female-boss.aspx

Men like being the only man at their workplace: http://fortune.com/2018/10/23/women-only-one-lean-in-survey/

Woman doctors have better mortality and readmission outcomes than males: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2593255

I don't deny that many men think like you, but most know better.

[–]PearsOfWrath0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's just become politically incorrect to say a male preference now. Things haven't changed otherwise.

Men who work at a mostly female workplace are probably gay anyway (I'm serious.)

Doesn't mean that people perceive female doctors to be more competent.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yikes.

Jinkees, Scoob!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most animals on the planet have the male doing a mating dance in the hopes that a female selects him for mating.

Humans are no different. Men must perform for women in order for her to select us.

[–]RoyalAugur920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

TL;DR another MGTOW/incel in denial "sell me on women" post.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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