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https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/11/entertainment/mindy-kaling-dartmouth-commencement/

Relevant text:

”This one is just for guys: When you go on dates, act as if every woman you're talking to is a reporter for an online publication that you are scared of. One shouldn't need the threat of public exposure and scorn to treat women well; but if that's what it's gonna take, fine. Date like everyone's watching, because we are.”

Feminists like Kaling (and there are plenty like her, mainstream feminists, not outliers) want men to be scared around women.

I don’t think this is healthy, and I think feminism is doing women a great disservice here. I also think it plainly illustrates feminist misandry.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Discuss.


[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 73 points74 points  (54 children) | Copy Link

I agree I don’t think it’s healthy.

If she felt so compelled to address this topic, she could have approached it more neutrally by suggesting everyone be respectful of other’s bodily autonomy.

She patronizingly chastised all of the young men just trying to enjoy their graduation ceremony. It was unnecessary and quite honestly not at all thoughtful.

As a parent in attendance I’d be annoyed.

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

It’s sexist hate speech is what it is, and she should be shamed for it in the media. She won’t be though, because feminists have succeeded in shaming anyone who criticizes this attitude and labeling them a misogynist, that no news network will dare airing any criticism of it.

It’s like the Washington Post piece written by that feminist professor, arguing for anti-male hatred. If the Post is willing to publish that form of hate speech, why not give a Dragoon from the KKK a platform too?

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

It’s sexist hate speech is what it is, and she should be shamed for it in the media. 

You're trying to play a female power game Mr mra

You won't get results until you play the male power game

[–]Raii-v2The Best Pill is Gold 13 points14 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

You won't get results until you play the male power game

listens intently

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

You don't have to use force, fear of potential force works much better 🖒

[–]Raii-v2The Best Pill is Gold 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Is that you han solo?

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wasn't that Tarkin?

[–]Peter5930 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because of the implication.

[–]Offhisgame -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What are you trying to say? You think threatening physical violence is the solution to mens problems?

Or is it growing a pair of testicles and being a MAN?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You think threatening physical violence is the solution to mens problems?

If it's effective yeah 100% but it's typically not effective because people can laugh and call the police who have more force

Or is it growing a pair of testicles and being a MAN?

Yawnnn

[–]it_takes_the_redpillRed rover red rover send 'em all over 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Replying to save my place. I want to hear this

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t see it that way.

[–]theiamsamuraiRavishment Realist 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're trying to play a female power game Mr mra

You won't get results until you play the male power game

Women are better at manipulation on average than men, but men become better at it if they put 10000 hours into it than women who put 10000 hours into it.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness! 9 points10 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Why would you be annoyed at this? I'll agree, it's a blanket intervention. If we're really going to curb rape and sexual assault, we need to figure out how to identify the few percent of men that are serial rapists and aim our interventions at them. The men that are doing this won't be fazed by some actress spouting something they believe to be bullshit.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's inappropriate at a commencement speech, would you agree?

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I’m confused. You admit that it’s a blanket intervention which implies all men are potential rapists, and you’re asking why someone might be annoyed at this?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No dude. You have to understand something about how women view these things in general. I am a feminist, but I view the vast majority of men as normal. The men this is actually directed at are in our minds a very, very, small majority. These things are always directed at that small group, not men in general. There are extremists in every group for sure, feminists included. But the very definition of feminism is the belief that men and women are EQUAL. It’s not the belief that women are better than men. Or that men don’t face their own problems and hardships. The people that view men as the enemy are (excuse my language) stupid fucking morons who are giving feminism a bad name. A good example is remember when you were in school and before a test a teacher says “eyes on your own paper, if I catch you cheating, there will be consequences.” If you’re someone who is morally against cheating, that statement isn’t actually directed at you. It’s directed at the people who have no problem with cheating.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The men this is actually directed at are in our minds a very, very, small majority. These things are always directed at that small group, not men in general.

Except it's not. Mindy Kaling addressed the entire male student body. Toxic masculinity courses are marketed towards men, not men with a history of abusing women. The articles about toxic masculinity talk about men, not a specific subset of men. The only thing actually said by feminists when these topics come up is a lip-service NAMALT disclaimer, followed by paragraphs upon paragraphs of generalized statements regarding men.

And I understand why: because feminists have identified the problem as aspects of the male gender identity, and therefore all men are exposed to it, even if they don't express the toxic qualities feminists are concerned about in equal measure. Nonetheless, feminists are addressing all men, because they view all men as being potentially toxic, even though the worst offenders are a small minority.

So, feminists are addressing all men; I watch them do so regularly. If they're not worried about most men, they shouldn't be lumping all men in with rapists, because that's despicable and sexist. It's really pretty simple.

[–]kenpokid39 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Equal in what way? Rights, liberty's, an the pursuit of happiness? Yes! But to cry for equality across the board in every way shape an form is impossible, an Absurd! We are 2 different creatures. Both human? yes! But different nonetheless. We are different Mentally, physically, an not to mention emotionally. Things that are different are not the same. It doesn't make men better than women, or women better than men. It simply makes US different! You by all accounts seem very level headed, an intelligent. So much so, that had you not called yourself a feminist, I wouldn't consider you to be one. Still don't. At least not a modern day feminist. Because what you said about there being extremist in every group. The majority of feminists are extremists an radicals! Which is why so many women have left their movement by the thousands. Explain to me what purpose the feminist movement in this day an age serves?? What is it in life that you can't achieve without them?? You said "You have to understand something about how women view these things in general. I am a feminist, but I view the vast majority of men as normal. The men this is actually directed at are in our minds a very, very, small majority. These things are always directed at that small group, not men in general" 1.You view the vast majority of men as normal. I don't think for a second the feminist movement believes that. Not my ex-wife, mother, sister, or 95% of women I know believe that. When she made the comment "This one is just for the guys." She was clearly talking to ALL THE GUYS. I believe in your mind you think it's a small majority of men. But she clearly does not! Then she goes on to say "now for the ladies. Guys you can tune me out now, an think about that extra money ya'll are going to make." Was she talking to the majority of men there?? I think not. I mean really. How many times are they going to keep telling that lie?? It's been debunked so many times now that its getting Ridiculously redundant!

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This isn't blanket intervention. This is FUD/sexism, but its okay because not only did a woman said it but a feminist and that always gets a pass especially by feminist when the receiving end of it is men.

we need to figure out how to identify the few percent of men that are serial rapists and aim our interventions at them

Ya you aren't going to ever end rapes. I do like how the whole rape conversation remains and seemingly will always remain as men are rapists and women are victims. Somehow male victims and female rapists are never part of the discussion, funny how that works.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Women rape, too. That's why we're annoyed at this. And her speech didn't just cover rape. It covers anything a man can do that offends a given woman, and anything offends women. Case in point:

https://gizmodo.com/5833787/my-brief-okcupid-affair-with-a-world-champion-magic-the-gathering-player

Oh and it annoys us because she acts like women don't rape men. They do.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/30155267/college-women-rape-college-men-but-few-men-tell

It annoys us because she demonized men and glorified women in her little hate speech.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

It’s especially ironic considering she bragged on Conan O’Brien about only hiring the hottest possible actors to be on her show and slipping them the tongue ( a big acting no-no) during kissing scenes. One actor, Lee Pace, was kissed by her even though their scene didn’t call for a kiss as scripted.

It’s like when I saw a woman who had groped me at a party posting a #metoo post on FB.

The hypocrisy runs deep.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Oh, snap. Link? I'd love to help propagate proof of Kaling's hypocrisy.

Edit: wait, found it!

http://www.alloy.com/entertainment/mindy-kaling-the-mindy-project-make-out-tongue-funny-video-765/

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This needs to be highlighted:

Now she's coming from an awkward position of power. “When I do it on the show now, it's like the worst kind of sexual harassment, 'cause I'm the boss,” she told the guys. “So you can't complain — they're scared to complain — 'cause I'll fire them.”

No man could get away with harassing their subordinates then jokingly brag about it. She isn't exactly getting demonised for this shit:

With every interview Mindy Kaling does, I find more reasons to love her.

Really? Sexually harassing people on your show, abusing a power dynamic and then joking about it because 'I'm a girl and girls aren't into that stuff, silly! Teehee!'

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Eeeeexactly.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I went to her Twitter feed and posted the link to that whole thing. The feminists haven't said jack shit hahahah. I think we should all go to that Twitter feed and repost that link.

Here's Dartmouth's Mindy Kaling commencement tweet: https://twitter.com/dartmouth/status/1005912661794619398

Mindy Kaling's tweet about her speech: https://twitter.com/mindykaling/status/1005950096557596672

Let's all raise a stink about what she said. Make it trend!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Hashtag MenToo

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Because male victims are magically separate from female victims.

Because sexual harassment / assault really isn't important to feminists except to mine for political points.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bingo Just look at how they bury rape cases when the perp isn't a straight white male citizen of their first world nation.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is pure hypocrisy. I doubt the people who called for Weinstein's head would be after her in the same way. Morgan Freeman got called out for making inappropriate comments. This lady sexually harasses her fellow employees. This is creepy AF. So she can commit sexual assault but those boys better not even say the wrong thing or else?

If an MRA went on stage and told women that they better not be reporting rapes that didn't happen, I am sure it wouldn't go down well with the media nor would he be asked to speak anywhere else.

[–]LadyoftheDam🤷🏻‍♀️ 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What about a "you must go out into the world and work hard. The handouts stop here for the "Me me me" generation. Fight your innate entitlement." Even that's a bit better, but I'd be annoyed if my kid was being singled out and scolded for simply being part of a group they had no choice in being in. Surely being annoyed by this isn't that unreasonable. Why on earth would that inspire the audience? "We're watching you, don't get #metoo'd". Not really what I'd want to hear directed towards my son on his graduation day.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

"We're watching you, don't get #metoo'd". Not really what I'd want to hear directed towards my son on his graduation day.

he needs to learn that when some cunt starts talking about #metoo unprompted for no reason shes bad news and he needs to keep a big distance

[–]waxedmintflossPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's not very fair, #metoo is about a rampant problem in society and in most workplaces, it's surprising if you DON'T know a woman who's been raped or sexually harassed. I'm glad to see people being held accountable for abuses of power in prominent positions.

And yet, in my personal experience, women don't bring it up to me. We kind of all already know the score. Men, however, have brought it up in my presence many times and never asked my opinion, only given theirs. Which is sometimes that they wish "everyone" would shut up about it... And that is the kind of person to keep a distance from. What kind of person would rather people be raped as long as they don't have to know about it?

[–]FuckYourselfUCunt 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see a big issue with this in equating rape and sexual harrassment, which is things like sexual comments, lingering stares etc. Rape is a legitimately abhorrent act, but that's diluted somewhat when you're supposed to have the same sympathy for a woman who had to endure an unwanted, clumsy compliment from an ugly man.

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I explained my annoyance earlier.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

As a parent in attendance I’d be annoyed.

Lol these are adults.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..|| 25 points26 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

TIL parents aren't allowed at college graduation ceremonies.

I mean, "As a parent of a 267 month-old in attendance, I'd be annoyed" would be one thing, but this is another thing. A child of yours who is a college graduate is not a child, but still your child. If you attend their graduation ceremony, you will be a parent in attendance.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

sure they're allowed but being offended "as a parent" of a 20something adult is pretty lame

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..|| 9 points10 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Annoyed. The word is "annoyed". It's your side that is always offended, because we are often offensive. My side is perpetually annoyed, because you are often annoying.

It's not like, "As a parent, I am offended by...". That is lame. Being a parent was not the reason for feeling annoyance. It was the reason for being at the graduation ceremony in the first place. The reason for the annoyance was that the thing she said was really annoying.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

what's "my side"

the parents aren't the intended audience. she's addressing the students. the need to make a spectacle of how annoyed you are is also annoying.

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“Spectacle”?

“Offended”?

You’re being dramatic.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your side - hardcore, radical feminism

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i love being the new face of radical feminism

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..|| 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What's your side? I think you know what your side is. As purple as you claim to be, you are feminist blue, through and through.

The parents aren't the intended audience, but they are in the audience. And they see this woman onstage feeding their children a line of bullshit. That would be annoying. "You boys had better behave yourselves in accordance to the rules we just arbitrarily made up, and will change on a whim, or your most minor transgression will go viral, and you will be shamed until you choose the only honorable course of action left to you: seppuku."

Okay, I exaggerate a titch; It's a character flaw.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As purple as you claim to be, you are feminist blue, through and through.

Man, there's a song in there somewhere.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Are you a parent that has invested 200K plus in a child graduating from Dartmouth?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

i'm a child who had way more than that invested in their education who would have told my parents to stfu if they complained to me about a commencement speech

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Good for you. I can understand that as an entitled female college graduate in the last 20 years. Now imagine yourself raising a son who gets called out as a rapist by some cunt trying to be funny no matter how well you raised him at his graduation.

[–]whiskeyjack1983 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You would tell people who spent more than $200k on your education to "stfu"?

On the surface, that comment seems farcical in the epic levels of disrespect and ungratefulness that it displays. I haven't ever had anyone pay for my education, so I may be out of line here, but I like to think that were someone to foot the bill for me I would allow them the space to comment on the proceeds of such a purchase.

[–]wracky272RPG's are fun 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't listen to what this MAN has to say. Go chew your parents' out, they probably deserve it! Grrrrl power!

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

my parents groomed me and my siblings for high cost college experiences, while i am super appreciative of it as an adult it wasn't something i coerced them into. it was literally expected of me. i would bet for most dartmouth students it was the same. that doesn't give them license to be irritating helicopter parents

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right. As a parent in attendance excited for my son’s graduation I’d be annoyed. There’s a time and place.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man 19 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

There are many men who follow her advice. They are called MGTOW. I wonder what she thinks about them?

[–]theiamsamuraiRavishment Realist 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are many men who follow her advice. They are called MGTOW. I wonder what she thinks about them?

Probably something along the lines of "good riddance, I wasn't interested in those men anyway"? It seems like a good way to ensure that most women are left sexually unsatisfied, because men not taking risks turns women off more than the alternative.

[–]HarpyMasterSeasoned C.C. rider 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

MGTOW? Huh, they are saying they are done but...they are lying.

[–][deleted] 62 points63 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Lol, so basically a giant shit test. If you don’t take the initiative, you won’t get the girl. But of course. If you date like the whole fucking world is watching, you’ll not take risks. Then again I would never date a toxic waste of air uggo like her so I suppose she doesn’t have to worry about me. But I bet you if you’re over 6ft with a chiseled jawline and a handsome smile, she’d be singing another tune. What a joke.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. Women love fun and excitement. You dont have that without a degree of risk. Enjoy the decline.

[–]handklap 16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What she's advocating for, essentially, is a game of "Mother May I?" where the man alone has to ask for permission for each initiation and escalation. Their thinking is that women are so weak and pathetic, they will force men to behave this way under the threat of losing your career if you don't play along. Oh, and nevermind the fact that most women themselves find this type of behavior to be a complete turn off and these same women especially don't want to be in a position where they have to say, "Yes", "ok", "go ahead" over and over again.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Their thinking is that women are so weak and pathetic, they will force men to behave this way under the threat of losing your career if you don't play along.

That's the problem. Feminists want to 100% eliminate any source of discomfort for any woman, and this means that they have to coerce men under threat of force to adjust their behavior to the lowest common denominator among women - and those happen to be neurotic, overly sensitive and triggered by everything - or, in other words, weak and pathetic.

[–]qwertyuiop111222Purple Pill Masticator 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

a giant shit test

I know what a ST means when it comes to one-on-one interaction. But what does it mean when it comes to a public speech like this? Isn't a shit test about a few people interacting in-person, by definition?

[–]EminemLovesGrapesSpongebob 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My RP perspective on it is a Mad Max quote;

That's bait

Basically if you're one of the guys that falls for the MSN trap, you've taken the bait, lost the test, and lost the game.

"Don't look at what women say, but look at what they do"

A shit test is all about "vetting" if you fail the shit test(s) you've been vetted out as the guy that doesn't "get it".

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How is this a shit test when she is promoting FUD?

[–]LSTW1234 36 points37 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

I rolled my eyes so hard at that. She also said:

I thought I might take a second to speak to the ladies in the audience. (Guys, take a break; you don't have to pay attention during this part. Maybe spend the next 30 seconds thinking about all the extra money you'll make in your life for doing the same job as a woman. Pretty sweet.)

I usually like Mindy, but there is a time and a place. It’s inappropriate to patronize half the student body during a commencement address.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 43 points44 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

God what a fucking cunt.

Imagine a man saying "and girls, spend the next 30 seconds thinknig about all that free time you'll have as men work more in their life than you will".

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..|| 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

...and imagine all the free time you have after he drops dead, and you are spending his pension and Social Security.

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs -3 points-2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

God what a fucking cunt.

Cool, cool. No sexism here.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You don't deny women can't be cunts?

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I deny that a woman using her platform to send a pretty obvious and innocuous message is a "fucking cunt."

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So be it. Someone using a platform that doesnt belong to them to focus attention to themselves all while spreading lies is a shit person to me, but hey - we all have different standards.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That wasn't an "innocuous message", that was Toxic Femininity given another platform to spread hate and bigotry.

Stoo disguising misandry as activism, its so bloody obvious to anyone with a brain.

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

lol imagine being so up your own man-ass that you believe this and reply with it 5 days after anyone gives a shit..

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, you're right. There's no sexism here. The sexism is coming from the cunt's mouth.

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You seem just great.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, I am! Thanks for noticing!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When people are assholes, they get referred to by their genitalia. Men get called dicks, women get called cunts. It's not sexist.

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]figyg 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is exactly what the wage gap is. And feminists hate it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, feminists love it because not only are these women benefiting from their marriages to high earning men, it provides the remaining shrill single feminist harpies in their 30s and 40s a soild career path in mangling statistics to keep themselves relevant in the west while they continue to ignore their sisters being enslaved and stoned to death halfway around their world because intersectionality means looking the other way when its not white christian men doing the raping.

[–]LSTW1234 -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What profession?

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t really like her work too much before this, but if I had, this would be a dealbreaker. Words like these reflect attitudes she holds, they’re not just a social faux pas. This was a prepared speech in front of an audience she new would be half male. She clearly thinks these attitudes are something to be applauded.

[–][deleted]  (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because the dominant cultural narrative is that there is nothing wrong with criticizing men in a generalized way.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t make myself clear enough: men are subject to that narrative as well. Whether they’ve internalized it and think it’s perfectly okay or are just too scare of the consequences of speaking up about the offense they take—that narrative is a large part of the reason men stay silent.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Well there's the whole women are wonderful and lashing back at her here will incur backlash.

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]the_calibre_cat 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because there is no "team man."

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Let's ve honest, mostly rich men.

Not for much longer given the whole education gap thing and that women hold more wealth than men.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The time to do what exactly?

[–]poppy_blu -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So here we have an MRA complaining about a feminist saying we should teach men not to rape..

...while seemingly oblivious to the fact that the leading website of the movement he identifies with promotes ideas like:

martial rape shouldn’t be a thing because marriage implies consent

female rape victims report enjoying it (Misrepresents a paper published on date rape with made up statistics that do not actually appear in the paper)

its only rape because you failed to turn her on

OP doesn’t grasp irony very well.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL, the irony here is that you clearly didn’t actually read any of the articles you linked to. If you bother, you’ll find that they don’t say the things you allege they do.

Oh, and Paul Elam and AVfM are no longer the recognized standard-bearers of the MRM. They get as much criticism as praise from MRAs today, if not more of the former.

That you dismiss the sexism inherent in the “teach men not to rape” attitude is bad enough, but to then go and compare it to a straw man MRA stereotype? That’s really all you’ve got, isn’t it? “MRAs are all rape apologists who think raping women is a man’s God-given right!” That you have to go to such ridiculous lengths to make your argument should cause you to question its validity yourself.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that puts it rather well.

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's almost as if she's a comedian making jokes about controversial issues... Ya know, like a comedian does?

[–]LSTW1234 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Those were jokes? Yikes. She needs new material.

[–]Asterix88 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I thought that comment was just a swipe at Aziz.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Poor Aziz

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When you go on dates, act as if every woman you're talking to is a reporter for an online publication that you are scared of.

Me: Soooooo how's your online publication going?

Her: I don't write for an -

Me: OHPLEASEGODIMSOSORRY DONT HURT ME WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT FORK OH GOD YOU'RE GOING TO STAB ME ARENT YOU

Edit:

Or am I afraid of the online publication? That's how it's worded. This advice is confusing.

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Well ACKSHULLEY that's not a real feminist so she doesn't count.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is the typical feminist response to any feminist behaving badly.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, AFALT.

All Feminists are Like That

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

NAFALT!!!

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No true scotsman feminist

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What makes you say that? How do you know that's not a real feminist?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just joking mate. It's the typical feminist response to bad behavior from members of their movement.

[–]Splodge_Bob_WetPantsFind Balance 11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The only thing she accomplished is made the already scared men, more afraid. The men that she's targeting to hear it most likely ignored her message.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

She addressed all the men, because she views them all as potential abusers, and thinks it’s best that they be afraid.

[–]Splodge_Bob_WetPantsFind Balance 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What I mean by that is the abusive men who need to act like she says are going to ignore her advice and continue to act the same way anyway.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, but the objectionable part about her comments is that she doesn’t discriminate between abusive men and non-abusive ones. This is the problem with the whole of modern feminist views on domestic violence, rape, sexual harassment, etc. They can’t literally say men are the problem, but they can say men are the instruments that enable the problem. Calling us tools of the patriarchy is just a PC way of saying men are the problem.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminism in a nutshell.

[–][deleted]  (30 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

and stuck me with the bill

That's when you tell the waitress "separate checks please"

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Actually, she made a big show of paying for half the meal... and her credit card was declined. And I strongly suspect she knew it would be.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

and her credit card was declined

So then she's a fucking loser. Pay your bill, tip the waitress, and tell your date to get a job

[–]Raii-v2The Best Pill is Gold 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In all cases, you know what I didn't do? Take to the Internet to shame and humiliate them. Because that would be a serious dick move.

Sounds like a missed opportunity

“#” methree

[–]Merger-ArbitrageTriggermaster, Non-Pill, Cutting through the crap... 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I've had some terrible first dates. One woman ordered a hundred dollars in a la carte sushi she didn't eat and stuck me with the bill. One woman hurled candy at the movie screen. One woman was some kind of insane global warming evangelist who would not shut up about it and scolded me for trying to change the subject. One woman told me I was disgusting for having three partners in the same year and then asked me to take her shopping for her sister's birthday present.

Did you meet all of them online and/or an app?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes. Well, the candy-thrower I met on a party line. Showing my age here ;)

[–]Merger-ArbitrageTriggermaster, Non-Pill, Cutting through the crap... 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

Well, that explains the harsh learning curve.

[–]OfSpock 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Did you tell your friends about them?

[–]aznphenix -2 points-1 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Take to the Internet to shame and humiliate them.

What do you call what you're doing right now?

[–][deleted]  (15 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]aznphenix -3 points-2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Do you think all the metoo instances publicly identified their attackers?

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And why can't we examine her behaviors and intentions publicly?

[–]aznphenix 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay, i guess that's fair if that's what kaling is referring to.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

The metoo activists willingly and knowingly contributed to a witch hunt by lending credibility to such an enterprise.

(they also could have made shit up.)

[–]aznphenix 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

You think they majority of people who claimed things against specific people were making things up?

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

No, I just think that it's entirely possible that anonymous (or anonymized) accounts of certain experiences in order to make an ideological and political point are prone to be made up. All that "shit that never happens"-stuff. Don't get me wrong: I don't believe that just the most part is made up; simply because one doesn't have to; what happens on a daily basis is enough.

But all that twitter campaigning has produced an unhealthy dynamic where an anonymous mob can set an agenda even if there's nothing behind it. I mean, the fact alone that a single person with 10,000 bots who somewhat pass the turing test could kick off a campaign (as long as the media throw their weight behind it as well) that brings forward social change is extremely disconcerting.

A few years ago, a high-ranking politician had hit on a journalist (under very specific circumstances: (a) she approached him out of her own volition with the motivation to get a few quotes (b) during after work hours (c) at a bar in the parliament building (d) when he was already clearly inebriated (e) he was pretty much immediately removed by his aide who saw what he was getting himself into). I.e. he made a few frivolous statements and things snowballed from there. And among the things that ultimately cost him his job was a twitter campaign with 50,000 tweets from women relaying their own experiences with sexual harassment which was hugely played up by the media - despite the fact that it was mostly a shitstorm stirred up by roughly 1,000 people who were responsible for the lion's share of the tweets. So yeah, please forgive me if I am not too fond of those witch hunt-campaigns.

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Your first paragraph is about false allegations.

Your last few paragraphs describe a politician being inappropriate with a reporter.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

My whole post is about the problem of giving twitter activism which is basically an anonymous mob of people who utter allegations (which are, due to the nature of the medium, of dubious veracity by default) too much influence.

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Just saying your example used is valid under “Me Too.”

Unless your actual contention is not agreeing with what counts as an unwanted encounter or if those encounters should be minimized as nbd.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No, he's not naming names, and #MeToo did name names - that's why so many of those men are out of a job. In fact what hematomatoed did wrong was NOT name names so other men can avoid them.

[–]aznphenix 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

'So Many'. I think like 90% of the guys who lost things were famous and it was pretty clear they did some sketchy things. The were no consequences for the vast majority of men who were mentioned in me too in large part because the men were not identified.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

On an aside I hope they are identified. Fortunately some women are getting busted under #MeToo as well.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/15/politics/kansas-democrat-andrea-ramsey-congress-race-sexual-harassment/index.html

[–]aznphenix 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Right I hope the repeat offenders at least get caught and the one time offenders learn their lessons on what's acceptable. I don't think I've seen any stories that have seemed ridiculous so far (with maybe aziz as an exception - but i think that was still a discussion that needed to happen about where lines are drawn), but maybe i just have a relatively reasonable facebook feed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Aziz Ansari's story is in fact a warning tale all men should heed. I for one feel it's a warning of a trend that is to come. Especially after Mindy Kaling pulled that Dartmouth shit. Women do listen to each other. They may not be a hivemeind but they do move in lock step in very large groups. Her words didn't come out of nowhere. She's got a zeitgeist behind her.

[–]NalkaNalkaAdulting ruins lives 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's all about power. Feminists want to rewrite societal norms and laws to give woman the power in any interaction with man.

[–]kenpokid39 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

(Guys, take a break; you don't have to pay attention during this part. Maybe spend the next 30 seconds thinking about all the extra money you'll make in your life for doing the same job as a woman. Pretty sweet.)

Really??? How many times does this myth have to be broken down, an dismantled (proven wrong!) before they stop spewing that bs?? Come on! The gig is up already!

[–]wracky272RPG's are fun 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

They'll keep preaching this until women are, in fact, paid 25% more than men (and I'll be surprised if they stop there-- "it's reparations!"). Feminism hasn't been about equality for a long time.

[–]kenpokid39 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right! An that's why most women don't identify themselves with their bs...

[–]Jcart105Black Pill | Anti-Gynocentrism 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, you do have to be pretty retarded for taking dating advice from her though.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 13 points14 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

All a massive shit test. Acting as if sensationalized news is mainstream. This is why Red Pill preaches enjoy the decline. Make a fuss about this speech in public and you'll look like a sexist pig. But if you truly act on it and act like every action you take will be front page news then you'll get nowhere with women. The men who ignore it fall into two camps. The first - aka too alpha or experienced to care - will just benefit more from giving women excitement as their competition is weaker. The second - the actual weirdo creeps - well they aren't even going to receive this message.

Just like the catcalling drama a few years ago. That wasn't a male issue. It's a poor and black issue. Once that was revealed all of a sudden the momentum lost steam. Why? Because in the twisted minds of the left being black has more victim points than being women so you cant hold that culture acceptable. Hilarious.

[–]poppy_blu 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

cant hold that culture acceptable

You essentially just said white men who aren’t alpha have no choice but to ignore consent or else they’ll “get nowhere with women”’ and then immediately proceed to demonize black men and culture for catcalling.

Who is the victim-hypocrite again? Just so I’m clear.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

I never said anything about black culture. Just that the PC movement only believes in holding a group accountable if their privilege points are high enough.

I actually have been in inner cities and know most of it is harmless

[–]Splodge_Bob_WetPantsFind Balance 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Because in the twisted minds of the left being black has more victim points than being women so you cant hold that culture acceptable

sounds like you are talking about black culture there. I didn't hear anything about the Catcalling debacle though, do you have any information or links about where it's implied/said it's a poor/black thing?

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

That's in the left point of view, not mine. But if you dont think catcalling isn't more predominant in poor inner city communities then I'm not even willing to have this discussion

[–]Splodge_Bob_WetPantsFind Balance -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I’m asking for your sources.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

and I really dont care what you ask for.

[–]Karmangerಡ ͜ ʖ ಡ Clown Pill 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Okay, so you’re just assuming that black communities catcall because they are black and that’s what poor people do.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No. It's because it's something that less intelligent people behave in when around others (aka population density). Less intelligent people are more likely to be poor. Black poor people are more likely to live in dense areas such as cities. That being said it's a small minority giving people a bad name but 'street talking' IS cultural

[–]Karmangerಡ ͜ ʖ ಡ Clown Pill -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Poor people do tend to live in dense areas, there are poor whites that also do the same. As someone who came from such a place I can tell you haven’t lived there and just assuming. It’s poor culture, not black culture.

[–]Jammerly1-2 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

It's a poor and black issue.

Hardly - but don’t let me interrupt your racism.

Once that was revealed all of a sudden the momentum lost steam.

It lost steam because there’s no way to enforce it.

Because in the twisted minds of the left being black has more victim points than being women so you cant hold that culture acceptable.

Speaking As someone who both black and female you couldn’t be further from the truth.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Hardly - but don’t let me interrupt your racism.

He refers to the retarded "10 hours as a woman in NYC"-video, where the creators wanted to make an outrage porn video about the woes modern women face. And lo and behold, literally every single instance of "harassment" ("harassment" in finger quotes because those instances who qualify as such were few and far between) was done by a lower class black guy. Of course they tried to weasel themselves out of it by claiming that they also had footage of white guys but these were conveniently left out because the background was too noisy at the time which sounds like fat lie if you ask me (if they had had a white guy among the "harassers", they wouldn't have left him out, if only to avoid the allegations of racism).

Speaking As someone who both black and female you couldn’t be further from the truth.

SJWs really suffer from the double bind they're in when they have to decide who is and isn't the victim when a male POC (not necessarily blacks) does something to a woman.

It was interesting to watch the whole thing play out in Germany 2.5 years ago after the Cologne incindent, when ardent feminists tried to downplay the issue, turn it into a #yesallmen-thing and raise a smokescreen by trying to deviate the attention to the whole drama to the Oktoberfest where they made up fake numbers about incidents of sexual assault. Or feminists who suddenly realize that there might be false rape accusations if the statistics show how much Muslims are overrepresented under the perpetrators.

[–]poppy_blu 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

White men who defend every white man as a victim of false accusations/feminist witch hunting/oversensitive women while promoting the non white male rapist/harasser myth are no different.

White men in America commit sexual crimes in proportion to their share of the population (70% of convicted). 85% of rape victims and rapists are the same race.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

White men who defend every white man as a victim of false accusations/feminist witch hunting/oversensitive women while promoting the non white male rapist/harasser myth are no different.

Of course there is a huge difference: Muslims simply are far more likely to commit sex-related crimes than Westerners - this becomes especially egregious in European countries with large Muslim minorities where prevalence of rapists may be 10 or 20 times as high in Muslim communities as among natives. And it isn't even that surprising; all the stuff feminists - if they were consistent, honest and thinking rationally - would sum up as "rape culture" is a given in these circles.

85% of rape victims and rapists are the same race.

Also isn't true in Europe. Maybe that was the case for France with the "tournante" phenomenon, but generally this isn't the case. Well, unless you count marital rape; which would bump the occurence of intra-ethnicity rape up to a large degree.

[–]poppy_blu 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Muslims simply are far more likely to commit sex-related crimes than Westerners

Source?

Well, unless you count marital rape; which would bump the occurence of intra-ethnicity rape up to a large degree.

?

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Source?

On the fly, I direct you to this article. Other things like the Muslim grooming gangs, loverboys etc. are other forms this phenomenon takes.

It isn't even that difficult to do the math: If Muslims make up, say, 9.09% of a given population (1 in 11), but 50% of all rapes are committed by them, then this means that a Muslim is 10 times as likely to commit rape as a non-Muslim. Because on average, 1 Muslim (1 in 11) commits as many rapes as 10 (10 in 11) non-Muslims. And now keep in mind that there are enough cities where exactly that happens, i.e. notable Muslim minorities who are responsible for the majority of sex crimes!

?

Simple: Despite Muslims being considerably overrepresented when it comes to rape and/or sexual assault (see above), it's nevertheless still only a minority of them who actively engage in it (the problem is just that this minority is - relatively speaking - far greater than in other communities).

However, if we assume that the concept of marital rape doesn't exist in Muslim communities (pretty much a given) and therefore Muslims are far more likely not to accept a No from their spouses (the logical consequence of that), then the likelihood of Muslims committing marital rape skyrockets: because unless you serously believe that these guys, despite their socialization, respect a No from their spouse and always make sure they have her enthusiastic consent, or unless you seriously believe that Muslim women always enthusiasticly consent and are never not in the mood (and you would be disingenuous as fuck if you caimed to believe either scenario), then it's pretty much a given that most straight married Muslims will commit marital rape at some point in their life. And since they're usually married to women from their in-group, this certainly makes sure that the ingroup rape rates dwarf the outgroup rape rates.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

"That's racist! That's racist! Facts are racist!"

[–]DareyFathom 12 points13 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It just exemplifies the straight male shaming that has become acceptable in western culture. If you can criticize white straight males for being born into that demographic group, all the better.

[–]poppy_blu 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

So she was talking only to the white males in the audience?

[–]DareyFathom 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No she was talking specifically to straight males. It’s even more politically endorsed if white straight males can be criticized. Gotta get them PC points.

[–]poppy_blu 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No she was talking specifically to straight males

Not white? So why then did you feel the need to insinuate that?

[–]DareyFathom 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Jesus it’s not very complicated. Libtards love to disparage straight white males whenever they can. In this case it was just straight males because she couldn’t get a way to demonize whites in there. Probably at some other point in her worthless speech she did.

[–]poppy_blu 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh ok, so now you know what she meant even though she didn’t say it. Mmkay.

Probably at some other point in her worthless speech she did.

“Probably” you could easily find her speech online and confirm whether she did or did not.

But it’s “probably” more comfortable just to assume anyone who isn’t white is perpetually attacking white men every time they open their mouths regardless of what they actually say.

[–]DareyFathom 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, I know what the PC narrative is, even if she wasn't able to get it in. I don't even have to look to find her hate speech as it's already been posted on this forum. If a straight male said anything remotely this sexist about women he's be excoriated in the media for days on end. But Kaling is a minority female feminazi so it's alright for her to effectively say anything she wants about demographic groups perceived as non-victims. It's all about the libtard hierarchy of victimhood.

"This one is just for guys: When you go on dates, act as if every woman you're talking to is a reporter for an online publication that you are scared of. One shouldn't need the threat of public exposure and scorn to treat women well; but if that's what it's gonna take, fine. Date like everyone's watching, because we are."

AND

"I thought I might take a second to speak to the ladies in the audience. (Guys, take a break; you don't have to pay attention during this part. Maybe spend the next 30 seconds thinking about all the extra money you'll make in your life for doing the same job as a woman. Pretty sweet.)"

[–]ihatespunk 16 points17 points  (58 children) | Copy Link

I dunno, I read this as saying "don't do stuff you'd be ashamed to have exposed," not "be afraid of women rawr." I dont even like mindy kaling.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

Nah, this wasn’t some friendly, neutral advice; it was meant to make the boys in the audience uncomfortable and to get a cheer from the girls. You have to be a complete idiot to think she meant it in a positive way.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just not the platform to do it either. Takes away from the accomplishments of those men and women. Embarassing.

[–]ihatespunk 6 points7 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

I dont think telling people not to be rapey assholes is positive. I just said I dont think that means 'be afraid.'

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

What she said amounted to “since all/most men are rapey assholes, unwittingly or no, all men should be hyper-self-conscious to police themselves and their rapey instincts.”

[–]ihatespunk 6 points7 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

I really think that's reading a lot into it. The section to women is about how women need to support each other - I dont think that's implying that women never support each other.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

I don’t; I think that’s what she meant.

At any rate, regardless of how she meant it, it was incredibly poorly worded and sexist. If she was a man telling women to be afraid, she’d be ruined. All you have to do is reverse the genders to see how unacceptable it is.

[–]ihatespunk 3 points4 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

But that's the thing, I dont think that shes telling anyone to be afraid.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Read her comment again then and pay particular attention to the phrase “scared of.”

[–]ihatespunk 3 points4 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

You should go back and pay particular attention to the whole sentence. Why would anyone be scared of a publication? Because it could expose a truth that someone who needs this advice doesnt want exposed. Treat every woman as if she could put you on blast the same way a reporter for a major publication can - because they could.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That wasn’t the spirit of her comment and you know it. You act like it’s just some neutral advice, when it’s so obviously not. If that’s really you’re reading, then I think you’re just profoundly biased.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 3 points4 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Why would anyone be scared of a publication?

Because people and publications lie in order to promote agendas and narratives?

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It says that if that's what you're looking for it to say.

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is my take.

Terps are gonna see what they want to see anyway, so there's no use arguing.

[–]peacockpartypantsI like popcorn 1 point2 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Same. You don't have to be "be afraid". I saw the point more as trying to drive home, while dramatically; to just respect people.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 5 points6 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Why didn't she word it in a way that asked both men and women to respect each other when dating?

[–]peacockpartypantsI like popcorn 4 points5 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

I can't speak for kaling. I just didn't get the "hostile" impression other people are taking from it.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 6 points7 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

The comment was clearly aimed at men to respect women, yes? And you read that as people respecting each other?

Can you see how in the current events of disenfranchised young men acting out violently, that she may have wanted to send a message of respect and tolerance for both men and women to come together instead of the same old canned feminist men=bad, women=good misandrist bullshit?

One of the issues is that this narrative has been going on so long that you see it as normal and can't understand why people would be upset. It's insulting to all of the young men and their parents who were graduating that day.

[–]peacockpartypantsI like popcorn 1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

The comment was clearly aimed at men to respect women, yes? And you read that as people respecting each other?

Well, women are people so, I don't see problem.

Can you see how in the current events of disenfranchised young men acting out violently, that she may have wanted to send a message of respect and tolerance for both men and women to come together instead of the same old canned feminist men=bad, women=good misandrist bullshit?

Generally speaking, I don't agree with censoring ourselves for people who can't control themselves and have anger issues. There's no excuse to act out violently.

Other than that, I don't see things the way you do. Clearly. Do you really think all feminists just hate men? From my understanding, that's a loud minority.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Funny thing is that people like you are dismissive of the double standard and refuse to understand how ingrained this shit is in society. It's standard white knighting, sexist, and promoting the waw effect.

Feminists got scientist Tim Hunt fired for telling jokes about female scientists at a conference. Do you think he suffered consequences for not censoring himself? Or is it ok to do and say anything anywhere as long as its an approved liberal left message.

[–]peacockpartypantsI like popcorn 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Dude. I just asked you a question and you went off on a rant out to left field no one was even talking about. But yes, I'm the unreasonable one here. OK. Cool.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice debating with you...

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

u/Salty-Bastard was just pointing out how Kaling’s comments and your inability to see the misandry in them are both symptoms of the feminist monopoly on cultural gender narratives. It wasn’t some unrelated rant, it was actually very relevant.

If it helps, try imagining a male speaker telling the women in the audience that they need to make sure they communicate vocally and clearly if they aren’t comfortable with something a male partner is doing, and not expect him to be able to divine her feelings from non-verbal cues alone.

If you still can’t see it, I don’t know what to tell you. This really isn’t that hard.

[–]aznphenix 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I don't think that's necessarily true. Yall don't think feminism isn't necessary and that it's a woman's world i get that. But i think a lot of us have experiences and upbringings that would tell us that's not the case.

[–]peacockpartypantsI like popcorn 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No. All I asked the user was, "Do you really think all feminists just hate men? " It's a yes or no question. More than that, came off to me as ranting.

I felt like the user was making a whoooole lot of assumptions about Kaling's comment(and me), didn't come off mentally stable, and wasn't really worth the energy of any in depth discussion. Esp in consideration of the fact my comment was only made in agreement with another user lol

[–]ffbtawPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

”This one is just for girls: When you go on dates, act as if every man you're talking to is a rapist that you are scared of. One shouldn't need the threat of rape to treat men well; but if that's what it's gonna take, fine. Date like everyone's a rapist, because we might be.”

Would a man saying that make you afraid?

[–]peacockpartypantsI like popcorn 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

You may not be aware you're making a false equivalence.....

It looks that you're trying to compare the threat of men raping women as the same thing as women speaking out when they've been assaulted.

[–]ffbtawPurple Pill Man -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

They aren't equivalent but they can still be compared.

Men are stronger than women and women have more social power/ are more likely to be protected/believed than men. The male equivalent to women threatening to use their social power against men is men threatening to use their physical advantage against women.

I'm comparing the threat of a women accusing a man of rape to the threat of a man raping a woman. I'm not claiming any sort of moral equivalence between the two. Saying you better treat me well or else... is a threat intended to instill fear.

You didn't answer my question, Would a man saying that make you afraid?

[–]peacockpartypantsI like popcorn 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

They aren't equivalent but they can still be compared.

No.... it's still a logical fallacy.

You didn't answer my question, Would a man saying that make you afraid?

Due to the fact it's based on a false equivalence and your scenario and question was just circular reasoning.

[–]ffbtawPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Apparently you are the one who doesn't know what a false equivalence is. THEY AREN'T EQUIVALENT. I'm not saying there is no difference between them. I'm comparing one aspect of the two statements to each other, namely the part where they intend to strike fear in the audience.

Perhaps you should read up.

[–]peacockpartypantsI like popcorn 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, I said it's still a logical fallacy. I didn't say which one, on top of the ones already mentioned, as you've used quite a few. Please read more closely.

[–]ffbtawPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Which one(s)?

[–]SlashCo80 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It still came off as needlessly accusatory and condescending towards men.

[–]ihatespunk 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She's a particularly condescending person, what she said to women was condescending and potentially sexist as well. I just think everyone is blowing it way out of proportion. Shes an annoying comedian.

[–]Offhisgame -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bingo

[–]speed3_freakOld School Red -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This one is just for guys

Shouldn't the same advice be given to the girls too??

I agree it's not bad advice, but that preemptive remark makes me want to smack her.

[–][deleted]  (23 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness! 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Of course, that risk is not balanced exactly: Black, Hispanic, and even Asian men are disproportionately convicted of sexual assault by college tribunals.

[–]Jammerly15 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Them being convicted more doesn’t convince me of anything other than the judicial system is racist.

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness! 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. And I think that some form of discrimination based on status and wealth is going to occur in any judicial system. You might like anthropologist Peggy Sanday’s work on rape, sexual assault, and the cultures that fostered it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I am scared around men. I treat each guy I date as if he were a potential rapist otherwise it’s my fault.

Fixed that for you.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ask any woman the things she does to make sure she’s safe on a new date. You may be shocked st the answers.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ask any woman the things she does to make sure she’s safe on a new date. You may be shocked st the answers.

I've had that discussed tons of times with different women. Answers typically range from "I have my friend send me a text message at a given time and pre-planned code words that mean different things" (The most cautious I've heard) to "I don't think about that at all.".

I'm not really under the impression that being scared around men and treating every date as a potential rapist is particularly normal.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Nah, well functioning normal women don't do this. Sorry you don't fall into that camp

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Ask any woman the things she does to make sure she’s safe on a new date. You may be shocked st the answers. But no matter what we tell you you’re going to ignore it.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Again, 'feminists' that really dont go on dates and live on Jezebel.com sure. High end SMV women scoff at the notion of a date being dangerous.

[–]Jammerly10 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

You have no idea what you’re talking about. High end SMV women have to be especially careful.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Nope. Part of being high end means well functioning and part of being well functioning is not believing a rapist is behind every corner.

[–]Jammerly10 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh yeah? Do you think the average SMV woman would easily trust a grown man as a nanny to their kids? Or do you all think they’d all prefer women?

Male gynecologists?

Male obstetricians?

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most would prefer it be women

[–]Jammerly10 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Which shows you how pervasive women’s concerns are about male sexual predators. It’s built into everyday life.

[–]truedemocracy3Such An Asshole! 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah. People just consider it weird because men aren't considered children caregivers. Stay at home dads are also viewed repulsive for same reason

[–]Yourstruly777 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually most men dont like dating, which usually involves spending money and dressing up. ”Enjoy the decline” right?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Ya and women like you eat up FUD about being raped in a dark alley while you are far more likely to be raped by your own dad than by some male stranger. This is what the facts on male rapists say.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

We’re more likely to be raped by any man we’re alone with.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The stats say otherwise.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

We’re more likely to be raped by men we’re no alone with? Of course not. Which is why being alone with a man is always a risk.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rape stats are at their lowest ever and continue to decline. If you think always being alone with a man is a risk then don't be in the house alone with your dad then and continue your FUD.

[–]aznphenix 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not dad, just someone you know.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually dad is more likely to rape you than someone you know.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It does seem that way, that she thinks the bad behavior of a subset of men is representative of all men. This is the sexism of feminism.

[–]Taipanshimshonhere for the downvotes 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea so why date ?

Seems like they want written contracts. That’s fine too.

End of the day - this is women using their power of shaming men into achieving what they can’t otherwise. No thought given to men. And no insight into how this affects later social dynamics.

[–]it_takes_the_redpillRed rover red rover send 'em all over 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"And ladies, this one's just for you: if you're on a date, and you know you don't like the guy, don't let him pay for your meal unless you're eventually going to put out. I know most of you like to do that, but treat every time as if by taking that meal you are depriving a fellow woman of male trust down the line. Because that's what's happening. You are."

Feminists: think that would go without mention in the media?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“But we do believe that women should do that. See? We’re on your side! Now join us in admonishing your own gender for the crimes of a sick few!”

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

this sounds nearly identical to the stuff i've seen MRAS say about "modern dating for men" though, so....

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

We’ve said feminists are creating this atmosphere certainly, and this is an example of it. How is that wrong? We’re certainly not saying women should be afraid on dates. What’s the comparison you’re drawing here?

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

i've seen men say that modern dating is a minefield and men should always be wary of false accusations/should approach all sex as if it could turn out to be a false rape accusation

literally no different from what she's saying here

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

No, it’s very different, because it reflects a message being spread by another group. MRAs don’t accuse women of doing this, but we do think women are being taught by feminists to regard anything that makes them uncomfortable as a form of sexual harassment or misconduct at the very least, and in that environment, it makes sense for men to be wary. The difference is that we are lamenting this state of affairs, while feminists are gleefully encouraging it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

i don't see any gleeful encouragement or any intellectualizing behind her statement.

it seems very obviously a joke playing on men's anxiety made by a COMEDIAN that was probably followed by laughs from the graduates.\

this is mindy kaling not susan b anthony

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

I disagree. I don’t think she was joking.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

she's a comedian not an intellectual she was 100% joking

it even reads like a joke

[–]wracky272RPG's are fun 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're just not taking her seriously because she's a woman.

[–]it_takes_the_redpillRed rover red rover send 'em all over 4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I hear this argument about people like John Steward, Stephen Colbert, Trevor Noah, etc. They sit there and make political commentary that is clearly advocating one position, and are celebrated for their witty arguments. But if you ever try to criticize the message the reply is "they're just a comedian, you can't take them seriously."

Just saying.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

but none of those people are like mindy kaling, she doesn't do political commentary. her whole brand is about how flighty and not serious she is.

[–]it_takes_the_redpillRed rover red rover send 'em all over 5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

There was another political joke someone lower in the thread quoted.

Something about talking only to the women. Men, sit this part out. Take the time to think about the extra money you'll be payed for the same job.

It was repeated jokes advocating one position. Never cracking jokes about the other side. Also, half the audience is men. She's didn't touch a joke about women. She just ripped on men.

Besides, this is not a set, it's a speech delivered to a graduating class. I had this happen at mine, too. Where they hijacked what was supposed to be the graduate's special day just to take a shit on half them based on some stereotype.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..|| 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wait, they invited a comedian to speak, too? Huh.

[–]it_takes_the_redpillRed rover red rover send 'em all over 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol

[–]the_calibre_cat 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You've seen that at a college graduation speech?

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Damn. What a bitch

EDIT: This attitude is the EXACT cause of me losing out on sex so many times in my life. I remember this one latina chick from when I was around 20 or 21. We hung out and she was sending me all the signals to fuck her, but I didn't because of the fears modern feminism has planted in our heads. The catch 22 is that women expect men to make the first move. I would always wait for the girl to make the first move because I was scared.

FUCK FEMINISM! IT'S LOST ME PERFECTLY GOOD SEX!

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Similar experiences here.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

We hung out and she was sending me all the signals to fuck her, but I didn't because of the fears modern feminism has planted in our heads.

that's your own damn fault. you had a hot latin bitch down to fuck and your INSTINCT was "but but....feminism told me --- " youz a fool. men typically don't think at all when a woman spreads eagle and says "te quiero, papi"

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

She was a true stunner. Probably would have sucked my dick so good too. I will never forgive the feminist movement for making me a timid pussy and believing that I am rape culture for wanting to fuck a bitch's brains out. I want nothing more than for the movement to fail...even if it means taking back the vote.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

or....you can just do what you want?

[–]HankDeTankJa 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Similar experiences here. Feminism taught me that making the first move sexually as a man is disgusting and offensive. 'Men only want sex', 'creepy behavior'.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Jokes on you Mindy it's 2018 nobody dates anymore it's friends -> bangbuddies -> ltr? now

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 11 points12 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

This is so accurate 😂.

No one has been on a “date” in so long.

It’s friends. Fuck buddies. I think you’re my BF/ GF now? Oh snap we is married. A child.

I blame feminism for ruining courting culture! Bitches out here getting married for free!

[–]lefactorybebe 6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Lolol right? I've never been on a real date unless I was already in a LTR!!! I always thought I'd grow up and go out on these fancy adult dinner dates and be so sophisticated.....lol noooope!!!!

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Right! I want to be in a tasteful, but slinky slip dress. Him in a bespoke suit. And money spent.. his!

I need to date 45 year old investment bankers.

[–]lefactorybebe -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes!!! This is exactly what I had imagined when I was younger!! Candles on the table at dinner, having some intellectual conversation lol

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I have had that a grand total of once. Once.

Luckily I’m in a social scene where affairs and functions force us to get dressed and look cute, but I prefer the guy suggest it as a date.

[–]lefactorybebe -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Aaaah so now you know what you're missing! And that's so nice! I rarely have an excuse to really dress up, and I wish I was able to more often! I used to joke that I'd wear a ball gown everywhere if it were appropriate haha. Although, in all honesty, I'd just spill something on it as soon as I put it on!

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Getting fancy every now and then is fun and necessary!

[–]lefactorybebe 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

100%!!!

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness! -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or men from more conservative cultures. Somewhere where people have money and there is a strong religious influence as well. Perhaps Texas oilmen? North Dakota fracking new money?

[–]Asterix88 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Geez, that sounds awful tbh.

[–]SpaceC4seNo Pill -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most people I know are skipping the marriage part, but yeah. This seems bang on

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There are movie dates sprinkled in. Walks in the park. Trips. I’m being dramatic.

[–]SpaceC4seNo Pill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Was hoping you'd clarify with something like this, thanks so much lol. The earth is sometimes shit and to see happy & thriving relationships brings me great joy :') I think that /r/relationships, along with this sub may have ruined me.

[–]SlashCo80 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But I thought if you try to be friends with someone before getting into a relationship you're a manipulative creep? At least that's what feminists say.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Uh maybe in the ghetto

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah? Tell me about how chaste umc and uc girls are 😂 I grew up with em

Spoiler alert they were drinking vodka and hooking up at 13

[–]YesICanWhoopUrAssRedskins 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Drinking and hooking up?!

gasp

That's raep! We have to retroactively imprison those disgusting men! #MeToo!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

yes we were doing all of those things while also getting dressed up and being taken out to dinner, events, concerts, etc. we grow up doing both and being taught the value of having both a public and private face.

if the extent of your experience with men is getting smoked out on a dorito crumb ridden dorm bed then you weren't taught to value your womanhood and that isn't the norm everywhere

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wtf, is access to vagina degraded to Burger King drive through 1.00 menu at this point?

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..|| 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's so classist! Not everyone who doesn't have a membership to your daddy's country club lives in the ghetto, you know.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

not everyone, just the ones who are women who claim to never go on actual dates

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

just another shit test.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why would I take advice about men, women, or dating from a rich and successful celebrity who literally paid for sperm so she could have a child

[–]ihatespunk 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Women already get the message to watch themselves around men for their entire lives

[–]belletaco 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yep

[–]SlashCo80 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So in both cases, the message is that men are evil predators?

[–]SlashCo80 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So in both cases, the message is that men are evil predators?

[–]ihatespunk 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women definitely get a message that men all have the potential to be predators. But what I was thinking is the message to women not to entice the predators. It's all the same sexist garbage. The idea that men can't help themselves is one feminism has desperately sought to undermine.

[–]JezebeltheQueen5656Crushing males' ego since 1993 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

males, you better listen. you cant behave like apes and get away with it. you cant behave like Aziz and no one bats an eye. better start behaving yourself.

[–]SlashCo80 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because we know what women want most is a generation of timid, fearful men who must ask permission to breathe in your direction. And you might just get your wish, in the Western world anyway.

[–]newName543456went volcel 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

At that point why even bother?

TBH dating itself is so much hassle, that it's better to either stay alone or engage in hookup culture, if you are attractive enough.

Other quote:

"Guys, take a break; you don't have to pay attention during this part. Maybe spend the next 30 seconds thinking about all the extra money you'll make in your life for doing the same job as a woman"

Perpetuating already debunked claims.

Move along, nothing of value was said by that person.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Perpetuating already debunked claims.

Move along, nothing of value was said by that person.

Nah, you gotta call bullshit on this bullshit or they’ll keep doing it.

[–]Five_Decadesstopped caring 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I see no problem with this.

Don't abuse or sexually assault anyone and you'll (mostly) be fine. It is obvious (to me) that she is referring to people like Weinsten or Kevin Spacey. Guys who committed serious serial sex crimes.

However you also have issues like the Aziz one where a woman accused him of crimes just because he was awkward. I dont' agree with women criminalizing awkwardness or criminalizing low SMV men hitting on them. But if guys are going to commit sex crimes, thats different.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

How many weinstiens were in that graduating class with their parents in attendance?

[–]Five_Decadesstopped caring 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A small number of men are serial sex criminals. I don't know the exact number. It is anywhere from 1-5% of all men. But those 1-5% of men make up the majority of sex crimes that other men, women and children experience. The other 95-99% of men are treated as suspect because of how that 1-5% of men act.

I'm fine with shedding light on those 1-5% of men. I'm also fine with shedding light on women who abuse their boyfriends and lie to the police.

Shitty people need transparency and consequences to keep them in line.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree. A commencement speech is not the appropriate venue to call out serial sex criminals.

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

TBF at least ten.

[–]Entropy-7Old Goat 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The thought that everyone is watching is rather creepy. Will they be watching in our bedroom as well?

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Everybody who has invited Alexis into their bedroom is out of their fucking mind.

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer 1 point2 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

Mindy Kaling is a “feminist” in the same sense that Kanye West is a philosopher.

Feminists like Kaling (and there are plenty like her, mainstream feminists, not outliers) want men to be scared around women.

This seems like quite the stretch. It seems to me that a lot of Red Pill males are more sensitive people and seem to exeggerate things to the point of ridiculousness. Your opinion on this post seems like how some Blue Pill users call everything “misogyny” except you are doing it “misandry”.

The easy way to tell that most people on here have no idea what feminism is, is that they do not hate it enough. The damage it has directly and indirectly done is much more insidious than people let on here, it has also done a lot of good too for a lot of women. The argument is whether or not the cost was worth it, but trying to assign sinister intentions to outcomes is fallacious in itself.

Most men will not listen to Kaling— or for that matter even read this article. Men in general really do not care what women tell them, they are not at the whims of their “feminist” overlords or some actress from a television program making a tweet.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Mindy Kaling is a “feminist” in the same sense that Kanye West is a philosopher.

“Not a real feminist!” Check, predictably.

Your opinion on this post seems like how some Blue Pill users call everything “misogyny” except you are doing it “misandry”.

How is generalizing the bad behavior of some men to all men and advising a group of men collectively to be hyper-wary on dates not misandrist?

Most men will not listen to Kaling— or for that matter even read this article. Men in general really do not care what women tell them, they are not at the whims of their “feminist” overlords or some actress from a television program making a tweet.

I suspect you’re right, thankfully. But I’m not worried about that. What irks me is that Kaling isn’t being called out for this bullshit in the mainstream media. If any male celebrity gave similar advice to women in a commencement speech, it would be the end of their career. I think hers should end too.

[–]belletaco 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

If any male celebrity gave similar advice to women in a commencement speech, it would be the end of their career.

Why would they give similar advice? We don't have the same issue with women as we do men. It would of course raise eyebrows if a man gave that advice to women because ?? who is he talking to?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

1.) It's not an issue for men, which is why we shouldn't be given men that advice as a gender.

2.) There are plenty of bad things some women do that we could generalize to all women and give them advice about.

[–]belletaco 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

It's not an issue for men, which is why we shouldn't be given men that advice as a gender.

It is though.. men who don't need to hear that advice aren't going to be offended by it.

There are plenty of bad things some women do that we could generalize to all women and give them advice about.

Don't deflect.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It is though.. men who don't need to hear that advice aren't going to be offended by it.

So any guy who is offended by it clearly has tendencies that make him more likely to harass/assault/rape, etc? Thanks for demonstrating the circular logic you're employing. Don't suppose when you just blurt it out like that, that any insight happens and you realize how ridiculously sexist you're being?

Don't deflect.

I wasn't deflecting, it's entirely relevant, because I'm pointing out a double-standard.

Your problem is that you just buy the feminist kool-aid about all men being prone to abusing women, and agree that they need to be taught how to not be that way. So, obviously you don't see that as sexist, because you are in fact sexist.

[–]belletaco -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

So any guy who is offended by it clearly has tendencies that make him more likely to harass/assault/rape, etc?

I think it's similar to any other situation, people who are most offended and upset by things sometimes are because it hits close to home and is personal for them. It's not always the case, but it definitely can be.

Your problem is that you just buy the feminist kool-aid about all men being prone to abusing women

Literally never said this, I don't think men are prone to it but I think sexual assault is a problem that has existed forever and I'm glad it's being addressed now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

The only thing being objected to is feminists treating all men like they need to be re-educated so that they don't accidentally rape or assault women. It's the sexist generalization of a subset of horrible behavior by some men to all men.

Some women are gold-diggers. How sexist would it be to educate all women to be mindful of this and not expect men to pay for things and not marry men for their money, because even though only some women are gold-diggers, all women have the potential due to gender role conditioning?

You don't have a problem with the former, but the latter is sexist, no? If so, you have a double-standard, and are sexist, like I said.

[–]belletaco 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're completely ignoring where we are at as a society right now. She's not giving some random advice, it's very relevant to today's atmosphere, especially for young people.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That it's relevant to what's trending in society right now does not make it relevant to the lives of most men and women. Most men do not abuse women and thus do not need this advice. Her giving it was an example of her judging all the men in the audience by the worst examples of their gender. This really isn't that hard. I'm sorry your sexism is getting in the way.

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer 2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

“Not a real feminist!” Check, predictably.

That is not what I said.

How is generalizing the bad behavior of some men to all men and advising a group of men collectively to be hyper-wary on dates not misandrist?

I do not know how to explain this to you, but I think you are over-reacting.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

That is not what I said.

Yes, it was; it’s what your entire analogy was about.

I do not know how to explain this to you, but I think you are over-reacting.

I think Mindy’s comments are a part of a huge feminist over-reaction.

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer 2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

MRA

Okay, this explains a lot.

I really do not explain to you the difference between an actresses tweets and an actual academic feminist having their ideas leak into the world so I am done here. Have fun with your brainless anti-feminist circlejerk.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Her comments were part of a commencement speech, not her Twitter feed, and they are informed by the ideas that are developed and promoted by academic feminists. An academic feminist just argued in favor of man-hating in the Washington Post. One of the biggest problems in feminism is that the radicals are the ones in all the most important positions, while the moderates are an enabling silent majority. Feminism is misandrist at its core, but it’s made infinitely worse by the movement being led by feminists who want toxic masculinity courses taught in schools.

But why am I wasting my time? You’ve already made it clear you’re willing to dismiss my points based on a label. There’s no arguing with closed minds.

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But why am I wasting my time?

Your guess is as good as mine.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

wow, profound

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I am done here.

You always do this when you lose a debate.

[–]aznphenix 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I don't think she lost, they're not talking about the same things

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

How so?

By saying "she's as much of a feminist as Kanye West is a philosopher" she very much was pulling a No True Scotsman. OP called her out on it and she just decided to hit him with an ad hom by attacking him for being an MRA instead of attacking his argument then said "I'm done here."

Seems like they were talking about the same thing and she did a poor job of debating, what is it I'm missing?

[–]aznphenix 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

it's more to say that mindy is a pop feminist not an academic one.

The main reason I don't think they'll end up on the same page is that tedesche is more egalitarian and would equally think that mindy's comments and rp's comments about women sometimes are misandry or misogyny. electra doesn't have that same view, and they're not really going to convince each other otherwise. Mindy's comments are about as bad as some versions of AWALT basically, and electra has no problems with AWALT.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If someone holds the view that the only "real" feminists are academics then NTS applies. Besides, Electra has said in previous threads that it's not just academics who can contribute to feminist thought, so that doesn't actually seem to be the view she holds.

Even if it was, there are numerous examples of influential academic second wave feminists who held the views expressed in OP's article, for example Andrea Dworkin. So it's not like it's something celebrities and tabloids just invented overnight. They're just continuing on from second wave feminist thought.

It seems to me to be the classic case of: famous feminist says bad stuff, others say "yeah well that doesn't count because XYZ", anyone who disagrees just gets ad hom'd instead of debated.

I can't even single out Electra for this because it's something a lot of bloops do here.

And what's funny is, those bloops will also point to "pop feminism" to back up their assertions about how feminism is good no problem. You see bloops here linking to Buzzfeed and Huffpo to explain how "toxic masculinity" isn't actually insulting to men for example. Yet if their opponent points to a "pop feminist" to make a point against feminism, then suddenly that doesn't count, it's not real feminism.

It's all pretty amusing, this dancing around and arbitrarily declaring things to be or not be "real feminism" based on what's convenient at the time.

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Is Kanye a philosopher to you?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I mean he namedropped Plato once...

In all seriousness, I think good rappers are deeper than a lot of people give them credit for. Sure there's a lot of "big booty hoe, Xans with the Actavis" pop-rap but often when I sit down and properly listen to the tracks on an album that don't get played on a loop on the radio, they're pretty meaningful and have a message.

There's even some Lil Wayne tracks I'd put in this category, he's actually a clever lyricist. One example: "Life is a choice, and death is a decision / Times have changed, but fuck it get a new watch / I still got the vision like a line between two dots ... Everybody selling dreams, I'm too cheap to buy one / Man, when that cookie crumble, everybody want a crumb."

Is that philosophy? Not really. But it's more intelligent and thought provoking than it's given credit for.

There's underlying philosophical themes in most rap though. That Future lyric I like "chase a cheque, never chase a bitch" is reflecting an idea that's been consistent through hip-hop over decades. Endorsing the pursuit of wealth over relationships is, imo, taking a philosophical position and challenging the mainstream rhetoric on the values we're expected to focus on in life. And taking a position on something so fundamental to human life is surely a philosophy?

As for Kanye specifically, he certainly explores philosophical concepts within his lyrics. No Church In The Wild is the first example that comes to mind. That famous chorus: "Human beings in a mob / What's a mob to a king? / What's a king to a god? / What's a god to a non-believer?" That caught people's attention because it actually says something that makes you think.

And on the theme of relationships he goes onto say "love is cursed by monogamy" again challenging and questioning mainstream values.

Would I call any of these people philosophers? Well the term can be defined simply as "someone who practices philosophy." I would argue that in writing meaningful lyrics you are engaging in the critical evaluation and discussion of philosophical concepts. Therefore an argument could be made that yes, Kanye is a philosopher. After all there is no committee to decide who gets that label and who doesn't, and the topics broached in the lyrics are undoubtedly philosophical in nature.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You are correct that many RP men are too sensitive. If they were already self-actualized, they would not be looking for a way to correct the pozzed liberal brainwashing they are suffering from.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If they were already self-actualized, they would not be looking for a way to correct the pozzed liberal brainwashing they are suffering from.

OP is not RP, he is a BP egalitarian frame MRA calling this hate speech like a massive dweeb

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 1 point2 points  (97 children) | Copy Link

On the one hand, I'm kind of tired of MRA beingwhiny snowflakes and bitching about everything feminists say. Like, almost every woman has had men force or try to force themselves on her (rape, date rape, fondled, manipulated etc.) And yeah, some women want to try to stop that.

On the other hand, I don't think dating is quite as bad as some feminists make it to be. Yes, that quote is kind of far. No, feminism is not hostile to men. It's indifferent, you perceive indifference as hostility.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

No, feminism is not hostile to men. It’s indifferent, you perceive indifference as hostility.

Generalizing the behavior of some men to all men is sexism, and it is indisputably hostile. Wanting to teach toxic masculinity courses that institutionalize this mindset is similarly hostile. For fuck’s sake, a feminist professor just published a piece in the Washington Post, defending literal man-hating.

Feminism is absolutely hostile to men.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman -1 points0 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

Wanting to teach toxic masculinity courses that institutionalize this mindset is similarly hostile

By indifference, I meant indifference to male issues. Feminism does try to systematize and understand masculinity, because understanding that is important to understand the power dynamics between the two genders - power dynamics which very often manifests as oppression of women by male society in general. And enough women have experienced that and identified a bunch of common traits in many men that result in them abusing power and oppressing others. That's called toxic masculinity.

And that is not hostility, it's just recognition. Indeed, recognizing toxic masculinity might be better for many men as well, and many feminists have mentioned that. Male suicides could be reduced a lot if men could be more emotional and caring. Men in general would be happier. Feminists have brought these points up, several times.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

No, toxic masculinity is a veiled attempt by feminists at addressing male-on-female violence; it’s not about helping men, that’s a convenient side effect that is not focused on, but held up as a noble (but dishonest) rationale. If feminists wanted to help men, there’s a whole slough of issues they would have already focused on. The issues toxic masculinity purports to address are not the most serious examples of institutionalized sexism against men in society.

I would agree that, at best feminism is indifferent towards men. But that’s not what I see in most modern, mainstream feminism. I see semi-conscious misandry being rationalized as pro-women. Again, just look at the Washington Post piece. That’s not the first time a feminist professor has argued that man-hating is perfectly fine.

Not all feminists are like this, but the ones that aren’t dismiss the ones that are as “not real feminists” when they’re brought up. It’s about protecting the brand, not any thoughtful reflection on how feminists aren’t immune to prejudice and sexism themselves, or how feminism itself encourages this.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

it’s not about helping men, that’s a convenient side effect that is not focused on, but held up as a noble (but dishonest) rationale

I didnt say its a rationale. It certainly isn't. But it is a convenient side effect, and many feminists have mentioned it - which does indicate lack of hostility towards men.

You can hate traditional gender based power structures and toxic masculinity without being hostile to all men - EVEN THOUGH most men are a part of it.

I think man haters are in the minority, personally. Two X is overwhelmingly feminist and you'll rarely ever come across man hate.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Mrm. Sounds like you buy feminist theories about sexism, which I don’t or at least am highly selective about. As such, I don’t know that I’ll be able to change your mind about them.

Toxic masculinity is—in purely theoretical form—an inoffensive concept. It was, after all, developed by a group of men. I don’t deny that there’s some validity in the concept itself. I just think the fact that feminists use a term that identifies a gender identity as the problem, while using terms that identify society as the problem when they’re talking about women, belies a subtle sexism. Then there’s the fact that feminists have used the concept to account for mass shootings and gun violence in general, racism, nationalism, capitalism, rape, sexual harassment, domestic violence, etc. it’s basically a catch-all phrase for everything feminists don’t like about the worst men in society—which they then propose exist in small quantities in most/all men.

I don’t think the man-haters are as small a minority as you think. I think, like racists, they know which views and feelings not to express in public. The disturbing thing about modern feminism is that now the bravest of them are now literally coming out and openly hating men. Not too dissimilar to what’s been happening on the Right, when you think about it.

Anyway, your assertion that most men exhibit toxic masculinity makes it pretty clear you subscribe to this form of sexism. As such, I can’t say my confidence is high that we’ll see eye-to-eye on this.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah there is little chance of seeing eye to eye. Although at least you aren't calling me a cunt.

Toxic masculinity is kind of an umbrella term, sure. But we also see a lot of these traits in the same 'toxic' men. Or, well, there are several types. The overly masculine man who can't keep his testosterone driven aggression in check, and rapes and beats up women. The bitter incels and lonely men who think society OWES them women. Male entitlement, male aggression, male chauvinism.. All goes under toxic masculinity.

But i mean... a lot of feminists are heterosexual. Do you think they hate ALL men or just a specific group?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The overly masculine man who can’t keep his testosterone driven aggression in check, and rapes and beats up women.

Nope, sorry, there are other reasons men do these things. Psychology has been studying them for a long time, you might want to do some reading.

The bitter incels and lonely men who think society OWES them women.

No, that’s misogyny, it has nothing to do with men feeling they’re not living up to their manhood. Women can get the exact same way, and we don’t call it “toxic femininity.”

Male entitlement, male aggression, male chauvinism.. All goes under toxic masculinity.

Mmhm. And female entitlement, aggression, and chauvinism?

Toxic masculinity is just a new phrase feminists use to describe everything they dislike about men.

But i mean... a lot of feminists are heterosexual. Do you think they hate ALL men or just a specific group?

I don’t think most feminists hate men; I think they just buy into a misandrist view of them. Most of them honestly believe this stuff, and think they’re helping. It’s a form of benevolent sexism. And their position has been for a long time that not all men are bad, but all or nearly all of them exhibit patriarchal qualities, which need to be trained out of them.

Feminism’s sexism is apparent in the contrast between how they address men and women. Namely, primarily negatively vs. primarily positively. Notice how feminists say women reinforce patriarchy too, but they pretty much never criticize women for any of it? There is no toxic femininity, no campaigns to re-educate women to be nicer to men. They maintain that men’s and women’s issues are inextricably connected (and they are), but they only ever work on women’s issues. Even toxic masculinity—which they claim is them trying to help men—is really just a guise for them trying to make men safer for women.

Feminism is sexist. It does not treat men and women equally and casts men in a very bad light. Again, I don’t think it’s driven by malice; it’s just sexism. It’s what you get when an all-female collective crafts a theory about the world based solely on one gender’s perspectives. Male theories about women prior to feminism were similarly prejudiced, but also not driven by malice. Indeed, they too thought they were helping. Feminism is really just patriarchy flipped on its head.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminism’s sexism is apparent in the contrast between how they address men and women. Namely, primarily negatively vs. primarily positively. Notice how feminists say women reinforce patriarchy too, but they pretty much never criticize women for any of it?

Honestly this makes me think you have no idea what you are saying. Feminists target other women MORE if anything. Look at the whole recent episode in Britain. Feminists scored a major victory there by having F1 and boxing ban promo girls. The conflict was almost exclusively women, and we feminists primarily went after women who spoke out against the ban. Men were of course going to oppose it and were a lost cause from the start.

But believe what you want. I don't think feminism is sexist. But even if it is, maybe thats good. Maybe we need to push back a bit after thousands of years of patriarchy and oppression. And you think that after thousands of years of that, males arent more entitled and oppressive than women? But its for that reason that I personally am not hostile to men at all. There is a lot of residual effects of all of that which males cant help but be affected and corrupted by. Thankfully, education is making huge steps in recent years by challenging traditional ideas of masculinity.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And you think that after thousands of years of that, males arent more entitled and oppressive than women? But its for that reason that I personally am not hostile to men at all. There is a lot of residual effects of all of that which males cant help but be affected and corrupted by

You deny my point, but you just proved it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didnt say its a rationale. It certainly isn't. But it is a convenient side effect, and many feminists have mentioned it - which does indicate lack of hostility towards men.

NEWS FLASH! The toxic masculinity hoax IS A statement of hostility toward men.

I think man haters are in the minority, personally. Two X is overwhelmingly feminist and you'll rarely ever come across man hate.

Found the NAFALTer!

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Two X is overwhelmingly feminist and you'll rarely ever come across man hate.

Even tho you do run across it and its allowed. But you see it far more in other feminist subs like Askwomen, TrollX, etc.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You don't see it that much there either. Certainly not like what you see on red pill.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ya you do actually. They easily have at least man hating thread with loads of comments per day if not more. The mods and that the community very much support toxicity and hate towards men. But apparently that's okay.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Feminists interject themselves into men's issues, especially when we are fighting to protect men. Take for instance the way feminists fight to defend paternity fraud, belittle male victims of domestic violence, and so on. We can't even get battered men's shelters due to opposition from feminists. Nah, you feminists butt your nose into our business all the time, while we're fighting for our own. So you're totally wrong here, too.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

This is total nonsense and you know it. The main obstacle to battered men's shelters is... TOXIC MASCULINITY. I've seen men making a small deal of a man get hit by his wife/girlfriend!!

Paternity fraud isn't a problem women should care about. I personally don't like the idea of paternity tests, but that's your issue, if you feel strongly about it, fight for something to happen for it. What I care about as a woman is to stop the many female victims of MALE FRAUD - the many single women who get left by men to raise their child alone ALL THE TIME.

I've seen feminists agaisnt paternity testing, but I dn't think it's the mainstream view. I don't doubt most feminists are against it, but it's not part of feminist ideology. It's just that the type of woman who is a feminist will also oppose having a MANDATORY TEST that seems to suggest that women are incredibly deceptive.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

This is total nonsense and you know it. The main obstacle to battered men's shelters is... TOXIC MASCULINITY. I've seen men making a small deal of a man get hit by his wife/girlfriend!!

You are an absolute liar and you know it.

Feminists - not toxic masculinity - disrupt forums for battered men. One was caught on video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qodygTkTUYM

Here's a bunch of women cheering a gruesome act of domestic violence against a man. Do you see any men or masculinity here? Well, do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUna51rI_eQ

Again, two women making light of a SNL skit mocking Tiger Woods and his domestic violence experience. Do you see any men here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BVXiHh95Tc

Feminists mocking male domestic abuse victims. Do you see any men here?

https://jezebel.com/294383/have-you-ever-beat-up-a-boyfriend-cause-uh-we-have

Women caught on camera CHEERING the sight of women abusing men.

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2741047&page=1

Feminists saying that shelters for battered men take resources away from battered women:

https://www.xojane.com/issues/domestic-violence-shelters-for-men

And this misandry hurts women also. As Pandys.org points out the toxic masculinity myth perpetuates the idea of women being the nicer gender - to the detriment of female victims.

https://pandys.org/articles/lesbiandomesticviolence.html

And once again, men aren't the reason why lesbian batterers can pursue their female victims into shelters:

https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/11/myths-ipv-lesbian-relationships/ A lesbian can’t hold societal power over her partner like a man. She, too, is oppressed by society. People couldn’t care less about her or her relationship when it comes to discussing potential power imbalances. - That's feminism's fault, not "toxic masculinity's" fault.

Paternity fraud isn't a problem women should care about. I personally don't like the idea of paternity tests, but that's your issue, if you feel strongly about it, fight for something to happen for it.

Considering that women are the only ones who can commit paternity fraud, that's a pretty irresponsible view to take on the issue. Why then should men care about anything bad men do to women? Why do feminists demand that we care, when you people say you don't care about what women do to men? Oh I know, because you're fueled by hate and gender revenge politics.

many female victims of MALE FRAUD - the many single women who get left by men to raise their child alone ALL THE TIME.

Women abandon their kids, too. Ask any hospital about the abandoned babies they get out of dumpsters.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/05/04/opinion/drexler-mothers-leaving/index.html

I've seen feminists agaisnt paternity testing, but I dn't think it's the mainstream view.

Oh, really? Men's Rights groups face a TON of political opposition in passing laws against paternity fraud

https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-12-02-paternity-usat_x.htm

Feminists routinely defend paternity fraud by deflecting the issue https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/25/barbara-ellen

They nakedly defend paternity fraud - for example, Melanie McDonagh of the Times of London:

https://jezebel.com/5349395/are-paternity-tests-anti-feminist

They even say paternity fraud is a woman's fundamental right:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2010/10/whos-the-daddy/

Another feminist trying to defend paternity fraud:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.694.9344&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Jeez, you're batting 0 for 1000 here. You've split the atom of ignorance!

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

You are just showing me isolated incidences, not polls. I'm speaking from personal experience. I am in feminist groups, I don't see any opposition to male battered shelters. We don't care about it at all, it never comes up. And 100% of all my friends would not find male victims of domestic abuse something funny. We would say that female victims is a bigger issue an should be dealt with first - since there are many more female victims. But thats the extent of our 'opposition.'

I agree that there should not be laws against paternity 'fraud.' If you found out a child of yours is not yours 10 years after they were born, what are you going to do? Sue the mother? Disown the child? I think that is drastic, and I also think that if you've accepted the child as yours, it should be considered legally yours after a certain point regardless of the DNA.

That said, being against optional (not mandatory) paternity tests is quite ridiculous. I think the branch of feminists that oppose that are engaged in war with the male sex in general. But but, thats not the majority of feminists. Don't believe me? Go ask feminists on r/askfeminists.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

You are just showing me isolated incidences, not polls. I'm speaking from personal experience. I am in feminist groups, I don't see any opposition to male battered shelters. We don't care about it at all, it never comes up. And 100% of all my friends would not find male victims of domestic abuse something funny. We would say that female victims is a bigger issue an should be dealt with first - since there are many more female victims. But thats the extent of our 'opposition.'

More oppression olympics. How about stop separating victims by gender and stop using domestic violence as a political weapon?

I agree that there should not be laws against paternity 'fraud.' If you found out a child of yours is not yours 10 years after they were born, what are you going to do? Sue the mother?

Fuck yes. In fact she should go to jail for defrauding him.

Disown the child? I think that is drastic, and I also think that if you've accepted the child as yours, it should be considered legally yours after a certain point regardless of the DNA.

Of course you believe this, enslave a man to a woman's cheating. For you the woman must always win and must always get away with doing horrible things to men.

I mean after all it's his money he has to pay out, his enslavement, not hers. Typical feminism.

Thank God we're slowly achieving laws against paternity fraud. Women who stick men with other men's kids should be thrown in jail as a deterrent.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Jesus.. Paternity fraud is a jailable offense? That's ridiculous. That sort of idea really just feels like you are waging war against women, against one of the last forms of power women have over men.

It's ridiculous! What about the real FRAUDS that happen a lot lot more than paternity fraud. You know, when men 'pump and dump' and leave a woman with a child to raise on her own? Should those men be jailed?

What laws are you achieving against paternity fraud?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That sort of idea really just feels like you are waging war against women

War against women who defraud men.

against one of the last forms of power women have over men.

And there you show your true deplorable nature. You're afraid of women not having power over men. You just hate losing your privilege, don't you? Women should not have power over men and men should not have power over women.

What about the real FRAUDS that happen a lot lot more than paternity fraud.

Paternity fraud is REAL FRAUD. Whether you silly feminists like it or not.

You know, when men 'pump and dump' and leave a woman with a child to raise on her own? Should those men be jailed?

State laws yank a man's paycheck for non-payment of child support and even throw him in jail. Underaged boys who are RAPED by women are punished with child support if the rapist gets pregnant. THAT'S how hard the state goes after men who leave a woman with a child to raise. Even male rape victims are punished for it!

What laws are you achieving against paternity fraud?

Many states now let the man escape child support for a kid he didn't know was his. This doesn't go far enough. She needs to go to jail for defrauding a man into raising some other man's kid.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You know, when men 'pump and dump' and leave a woman with a child to raise on her own?

How exactly is that a fraud?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

We don't care about it at all

You will care about it once funds for female victims start being affected.

We would say that female victims is a bigger issue an should be dealt with first - since there are many more female victims.

The stats don't show there being way more female victims of DV. But the stats and facts never matter as its in feminists best interest to downplay and marginalize male victims.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

The main obstacle to battered men's shelters is... TOXIC MASCULINITY.

100% utter lie. The main obstacle to such things is society able to view men as possible victims like we do with women. The fact is and something even feminists have a hard time admitting to is society does not take male victims seriously. We still joke about men getting raped in prison.

What I care about as a woman is to stop the many female victims of MALE FRAUD - the many single women who get left by men to raise their child alone ALL THE TIME.

Seems more you want to teach as many women as possible that women should fear men. Also this isn't fraud and in typical feminist fashion you are not only grossly simplifying an issue but making it black and white. There's way more nuance here when it comes to single mothers.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The main obstacle to such things is society able to view men as possible victims like we do with women.

Right, because of toxic masculinity. Anecdotal, but I've heard many men make fun of male victims of DV. It's just how we perceive the male gender. He's supposed to be in a power position above women, so if he's being beaten by her that's something to be mocked. Proper feminism seeks to confront these ideas of power, which would indirectly HELP male DV victims.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right, because of toxic masculinity.

It has nothing to do with that nor is masculinity is toxic.

Proper feminism seeks to confront these ideas of power, which would indirectly HELP male DV victims.

Because the Duluth Model totally helps men right? The only thing feminism confronts when it comes to power is power men have while ignoring the power women have. As feminists don't think women have power today despite the fact they very much do.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminism does try to systematize and understand masculinity

If by understanding it you mean bash it and that try to redefine then yes it does.

That's called toxic masculinity.

No toxic masculinity doesn't mean men abusing power, it has never meant that at all.

Male suicides could be reduced a lot if men could be more emotional and caring.

Male suicides could be reduce a lot if we had an actual mental health around to help men and have outreach programs. I highly doubt feminists have brought that up as that be addressing men's issues. Also on a side note feminists have no clue what men deal with, if they did they be speaking a different tune.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, feminism is not hostile to men. It's indifferent, you perceive indifference as hostility.

Right. Which explains stuff like #killallmen perfectly. Wait.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thats not a majority.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah, just y'know, influential editors and thousands of active feminists on twitter.

I think what you're trying to say is how you view feminism is as indifferent to men. However, how others practice feminism is hostile to men.

It's like, the crusades happen even if you can read "Thou shalt not kill" in the bible. Movements are defined by what they do, not what they claim to do.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, feminism is not hostile to men.

If it wasn't then it wouldn't have the anti male reputation that it has and that deserves.

It's indifferent, you perceive indifference as hostility.

How exactly is it indifferent?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You call lecturing men and demonizing men "indifference?"

Quit talking about men and we won't keep calling feminists out. It's as simple as that.

[–][deleted]  (15 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Any average and above woman who goes out, dates and has an active sex life - is very, very likely to have experienced this shit.

[–]Yourstruly777 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Most guys have never forced themselves on a woman. You must be lying here.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Most guys have never forced themselves on a woman. You must be lying here.

It doesn't take "most men". It takes something like 1 man in 100 who never gets called out on it and keeps doing it.

I totally believe that most women have experienced this. Because a very small fraction of men are extremely perverted and have absolutely no boundaries. What isn't talked about enough in the #metoo are the other issues that surround this: The guys who get away with this stuff are usually attractive, popular or powerful. In many cases (I've witnessed this myself), women will accuse other women of lying when they talk about bad behavior from an attractive/popular/powerful man.

Another thing that no one talks about is that this behavior they exhibit.... it works. It works on enough women for them to continue. This REALLY confused me when I was growing up. You'd see guys acting in ways in which we were taught to be totally unacceptable towards completely random women - and it would work. Even worse - you'd see women fighting off the men at one moment, and then in the next they'd be all over the guy.

[–]Yourstruly777 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

When kids ride bikes we make them wear helmets because they are reckless and don’t know any better.

What are we supposed to do with women who are reckless?

I am a guy, and I plain out refuse to take some kind of collective responsibility for rapes. Do women take collective responsibility for all drug addicts, incels, gamblers, or sharia law for that matter?

We have laws for a reason. Mankind is a bunch of effin wnkers. Any decent guy who feels responsible for this has issues.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think teaching young boys about how female sexuality would be a great start. And the opposite. Right now it's basically guesswork for kids - trial and error. Mostly for the guys.

[–]Yourstruly777 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So we have TRP for that. Most young guys nowadays know that you gotta lift and be forward with girls. The truth is out there. sic

I was a kid during the 70:s. The perfect BP environment. I got a load of that shit programming for sure. Be nice. Be yourself. Haha. Took me well into my 30’s to ”get it”, and so destroy my cherished BP illusions.

I dont think that is as big a problem for young guys today. They seem much more aware of the difference between male/feminine drives and don’t attempt to solve that using morals and guilt.

Most of popculture today is about female empowerment and hypergamy.

Young guys obviously adapt to that, but here is the kicker : they don’t fall into guilt and self service like expected, but start practicing RP ideology instead.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think you're vastly overestimating the amount of people who are even aware of something like TRP.

[–]Yourstruly777 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They may not have found TRP on reddit, but PUA and RP ideas have been around for a long time.

Youngsters interconnected life today is about appearances. Guys lift and girls diet down. Kids are astutely aware of it, though they may not know the mechanics behind it (RP).

[–]Yourstruly777 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

RP remake: ”You are overestimating the amount of people aware of TRP”.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

it could be that a large group of men but not the majority are responsible for most of these things. I doubt that men who are very attractive would do that. And no doubt there are men who are inhibited or kind.

But regardless, most women experience it. You can ask here if you want!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s not bullshit. It’s the truth. Women’s lived experiences are different than yours.

[–]DesignerDebates3 small children in a trench coat[M] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rephrase that with some civility, please.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol. All of the sudden America is as scary as Congo! Bull, fucking shit. Show me the statistics of stranger rape on a date. I bet you it won’t be closed to “every other” But if you broaden what’s rape, then yeah there are a lot more “rape” and “inappropriateness” happening. But that’s like saying if I broaden the definition of “getting hurt” to include words too, then you calling me names would mean me being hurt too as opposed to me being physically hurt. I’m convinced that all those women who scream “every other women have been raped!” are either really unattractive, or they’re the 6/10 with massive insecurity issues. No mentally healthy woman would be seeing the world through a lense like that. How would you feel if I say “every other men have been cheated on by women or manipulated and lied to! Always assume a woman is in it for your money and cheat on you!” Can you imagine the mother fucking shit storm?

[–]solorathain 0 points1 point  (45 children) | Copy Link

No, feminism is not hostile to men. It's indifferent, you perceive indifference as hostility.

It's not indifferent if you're directly addressing men.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 1 point2 points  (44 children) | Copy Link

We're just stating the facts about men. If I pointed out that a large amount of men are rapists or have rapist tendencies - is that hostility?

If feminism tries to educate women about the predatory nature of men so they can avoid things like that woman had to go through with Aziz Ansari, is that hostility?

Feminists dont hate men, we just state facts aboout what men are. And we are indifferent to their 'problems.'

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

You claim feminism isn't hostile to men and yet say feminism tries to educate women about the predatory nature of men. Seems to me that certainly supports feminism hates men.

And no feminism doesn't state facts about what men are nor are you indifferent about men's issues

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

We're not hostile to lions, but we recognize what they are.

Women need to learn what men are.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

We also don't attack lions and know to keep our distance from them. Are you feminists promoting the same with men? That women must view all men as being evil and causing harm and must keep their distance? And yes feminists are hostile to men and apparently only think of men in black and white ways.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

No, we have to realize that what are capable of and what they believe. You won't learn about men from the romance books and movies you watch growing up. The reality is quite different and feminism seeks to tech women about that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

All you and feminism is doing then is spreading fear nothing more. As all you doing is teaching women men are bad and evil and can't be trusted and that they are going to end up like this woman. Really in the end all you doing is promoting toxicity. How does that help anyone?

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not fear, caution. In the short run I think it helps women escape rape and single motherhood. In the long run, I think things are improving due to education. In many schools and universities, traditional ideas about gender are being challenged, and I think with that we will see the negative effects of patriarchy on men finally be removed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The amount of bullshit here is of the scale. You are teaching fear not caution. As when you frame ALL men as being rapists and what have you that is what you are doing. Its no wonder FUD runs so rampant among women. And no schools in no way are challenging gender views. The partraich also doesn't exist and the negative effects men face aren't going away nor will they, in fact they are only going to get worse which they have been.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

We're just stating the facts about men. If I pointed out that a large amount of men are rapists or have rapist tendencies - is that hostility?

Yes, because it's a fucking lie.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not though. 1 in 3 men have indicated that they would rape if they could get away with it.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Comments like this are never allowed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

We're just stating the facts about men. If I pointed out that a large amount of men are rapists or have rapist tendencies - is that hostility?

What do you think about the thing she said in the OP?

Let's switch it around, imagine a conservative speaker saying the following:

"Girls, when you at work in the future, imagine that there is a hidden camera present which records everything. It shouldn't take that in order for you not to sleep with your manager for a promotion, but if that's what it takes, fine."

How would you feel about this?

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What you said is a false equivalency, but also, I already said I don't agree with the comments she made 100%.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You could argue that it's a false equivalency, but just flipping around the genders wouldn't be offensive to most women.

But you don't agree 100% - do you think it is appropriate to say anything like this at all in this setting?

[–]it_takes_the_redpillRed rover red rover send 'em all over 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

things like that woman had to go through with Aziz Ansari

A nice date that led to 100% consensual sex which she later regretted and decided to smear him for?

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

"A nice date"

A date he rushed through to get her back to his place.

"100% consensual sex"

It was not consensual at all. She tried to stop him several times before resigning to the fact that he was going to force her to have sex so she might as well do it. That's not consensual. If a guy was to stop me from leaving and keep asking me constantly for sex I would probably do it just to get it over with.

Thats not consensual.

[–]it_takes_the_redpillRed rover red rover send 'em all over 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A date he rushed through to get her back to his place

Sure. But she let him do that. She could have decided not to go back to his place after drinks on the first date. Are you saying women don't have that level of agency and social awareness? Bullshit. She could have left if she wanted.

It was not consensual at all. She tried to stop him several times

You are...um...twisting the narrative. She voiced that she wanted to relax. Then she mumbled a bit. Later she made her concern explicit and he verbally acknowledged and backed off. Then he tried again using words, not force. Just because she said no earlier doesn't mean she'll say no now. I will concede he was pushy and I wouldn't like him after that, but still consensual. If it makes her uncomfortable that he kept asking, why not simply go?

“He said something along the lines of, ‘How about you hop up and take a seat?’” Within moments, he was kissing her. “In a second, his hand was on my breast.” Then he was undressing her, then he undressed himself. She remembers feeling uncomfortable at how quickly things escalated.

When Ansari told her he was going to grab a condom within minutes of their first kiss, Grace voiced her hesitation explicitly. “I said something like, ‘Whoa, let’s relax for a sec, let’s chill.’” She says he then resumed kissing her, briefly performed oral sex on her, and asked her to do the same thing to him. She did, but not for long. “It was really quick. Everything was pretty much touched and done within ten minutes of hooking up, except for actual sex.”

She says Ansari began making a move on her that he repeated during their encounter. “The move he kept doing was taking his two fingers in a V-shape and putting them in my mouth, in my throat to wet his fingers, because the moment he’d stick his fingers in my throat he’d go straight for my vagina and try to finger me.” Grace called the move “the claw.”

Yeah, she kept repeatedly letting him stick his fingers down her throat, then eat her out, and she couldn't do anything about it? She was scared that this prominent celebrity who has displayed absolutely 0 violent tendencies, was going to rape her?

“He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.”

Oh yeah, that sounds like rape. He pointed to his dick and she felt really pressured. I mean she said she was uncomfortable for heaven's sake. That's enough resistance, therefore of course she should have sex with him with 0 attempts to just LEAVE. /s

so she might as well do it. That's not consensual. If a guy was to stop me from leaving and keep asking me constantly for sex I would probably do it just to get it over with.

At no point did in the story did she try to leave even once. If it's there, quote it. You can't, because it didn't happen. You just wish it happened so you could be right about this. The fact of the matter is she never put up very strong effort to shut the encounter down, and she could have left at any point but made no such attempt.

Fully consensual. He does sound like a pushy 18 year old, but that's not a crime. Nobody made her let him stick his fingers in the throat. Nobody made her suck his dick.

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Lol you couldn’t even call the sex and attempts nice.

Astute phrasing.

Pro tip, don’t aim to be Aziz in that scenario or you will be in that scenario yourself.

[–]it_takes_the_redpillRed rover red rover send 'em all over 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

What are you even saying?

Why would she go back into his place after the date? Every woman I've ever asked back to my place on the first date has known what they were putting on the table. Women today are certainly aware of that. If she wasn't having a good time she could have left at any point. She is describing the entire incident from a place of regret. Look at her actions. Those were not nonconsensual actions.

He went for a condom, she said whoa not yet. They continued making out and shortly afterward she let him perform oral on her. Again, show me what's wrong with this picture?

Aziz did nothing wrong, she never gave him an indication that things weren't okay. Asking to slow down a bit is not the same as asking to stop.

Pro tip, don’t aim to be Aziz in that scenario or you will be in that scenario yourself.

I stick by my phrasing, and see no problem with Aziz, or with being in that scenario. Except that apparently having consensual sex on the first date is something you're allowed to ruin a person's career over now. If you're a woman.

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

You called the date nice. And the sex consensual.

Like I said. Astute phrasing.

[–]it_takes_the_redpillRed rover red rover send 'em all over 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm a little confused. You seem to agree with me, but your comment above reflects a negative sentiment toward Aziz and the situation. Am I misunderstanding?

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I’m saying even you aren’t calling the sex or the attempts at sex “nice.”

You’re calling the date nice and what happened at his home “consensual.”

It’s the equivalent of saying it’s “legal.”

I personally thought both she and him were acting obtusely and the whole night felt like a cringe.

No I don’t think he did anything illegal, but I also wouldn’t take her behavior or his as a blueprint for copacetic romantic vibes / advances.

[–]it_takes_the_redpillRed rover red rover send 'em all over 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah, I see.

It doesn't have to be "nice".

I'd say it's more than just legal, it's fairly normal today. I agree it reads a bit awkward, but also the whole story is an accounting from her perspective after she had time to start feeling regret. I'm willing to bet his accounting of the story has no mention of her ever voicing her discomfort. From a male perspective, the male makes advances and the female sets her boundaries. He was escalating as the majority of men would normally escalate.

It wasn't up to him to read her mind. If she was actually uncomfortable at any point, it doesn't sound like she ever made it known. Hence his reaction of surprise. Sounds like she blindsided him.

I agree I wouldn't take it as a blueprint, but I see abolsolutely 0 parts of his behavior that would be considered rapey, or taking advantage, or outside of acceptable behavior.

You know what mentally healthy girls do when they feel uncomfortable on a date? Don't go back to his place after drinks.

[–]it_takes_the_redpillRed rover red rover send 'em all over 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ah, I see.

It doesn't have to be "nice".

I'd say it's more than just legal, it's fairly normal today. I agree it reads a bit awkward, but also the whole story is an accounting from her perspective after she had time to start feeling regret. I'm willing to bet his accounting of the story has no mention of her ever voicing her discomfort. From a male perspective, the male makes advances and the female sets her boundaries. He was escalating as the majority of men would normally escalate.

It wasn't up to him to read her mind. If she was actually uncomfortable at any point, it doesn't sound like she ever made it known. Hence his reaction of surprise. Sounds like she blindsided him.

I agree I wouldn't take it as a blueprint, but I see abolsolutely 0 parts of his behavior that would be considered rapey, or taking advantage, or outside of acceptable behavior.

You know what mentally healthy girls do when they feel uncomfortable on a date? Don't go back to his place after drinks.

[–]Yourstruly777 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh but a large amount of women do hate men. That is just a fact.

I just try to be truthful about the lying nature of women so men can be wary of that when considering relations with women.

See how that works? ”Large amount”, ”facts”, ”nature of..”.

Toxic femininity.

[–]solorathain -1 points0 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

We're just stating the facts about men. If I pointed out that a large amount of men are rapists or have rapist tendencies - is that hostility?

The way that you stated it? Yes, because vague terms like large/small/medium do not accurately represent statistics. A more acceptable statement would be something along the lines of "X out of XXXXXX men are rapist".

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 4 points5 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Why? Why do I have to speak only in statistics. I can say somethng like that and if someone confronts me, find the stats that have influenced my opinion.

Like now. Large -> A significant amount of men. When I say a large number of men are rapists or have rapist tendencies, what does that mean to you intuitively? 1%? No. 10%? kind of. 25%? Okay thats a large amount.

Well 1 in 3 apparently have said they would rape if they could get away with it. It's only the law that protects us.

http://victimsofcrime.org/docs/Reports%20and%20Studies/rape-in-america.pdf?sfvrsn=0

And it doesn't need polls. Just look, wherever there is anarchy - wars, civil wars, refugee camps - rape is very very common.

[–]solorathain 2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

lol you're going to say that one in three men are willing to rape if they could get away with it, and then expect me to wade through a biased 20 page pdf document to find it? Yeah, not very convincing.

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Is spending 20 minutes educating yourself about rape really that much of a deal?

[–]solorathain 2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Maybe if it wasn't done through two biased organizations. It literally says on page two that they deliberately excluded male victims (because male victims don't matter apparently); these same two organizations that receive public funding and are supposed to be degendered in their research and services.

Do you even know where that one in three statistic is? Did you even read the full pdf yourself? Why should I bother educating myself about female related problems if feminism is indifferent towards male related problems?

[–]throwbacktuesday98Blue Pill Woman 6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Male victims make up a very very small percentage of rape victims.

While on the topic of toxic masculinity, don't you think that hurts male victims of rape as well?

I'm not saying care about our issues. But maybe if you want to address our points, be a little less toxic. The fact that people just wave aside toxic masculinity here makes me think you guys have no idea about anything we are talking about.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Male victims make up a very very small percentage of rape victims.

Too bad that's a lie that feminists aren't ever going to stop repeating.

But maybe if you want to address our points, be a little less toxic.

Pretty ironic thing to say really given the fact that feminists are often hostile/toxic to others.

The fact that people just wave aside toxic masculinity here makes me think you guys have no idea about anything we are talking about.

Maybe if feminists as a whole use toxic masculinity as its currently defined (even tho its gone thru different meanings over the decades), it wouldn't be so much of an issue. More it probably would help if feminists least outside of academia didn't use the term to mean masculinity is toxic. Because as much as you feminists object to us non feminists saying it and say how often we are wrong to do so somehow positive masculinity doesn't exist within feminism.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Male victims make up a very very small percentage of rape victims.

Okay this lie is why dialog with feminists is as pointless as dialog with Trump supporters.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/30155267/college-women-rape-college-men-but-few-men-tell

I'm not saying care about our issues. But maybe if you want to address our points, be a little less toxic. The fact that people just wave aside toxic masculinity here makes me think you guys have no idea about anything we are talking about.

No, we dismiss it as absolute bullshit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

A man disagreeing with you isn't "toxic".

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, when people are reduced to base ugly humanity they act very ugly, what does this have to do with some cunt beating up on umc college kids in front of his parents?

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[–]allweknowisD 5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

chilling

And here I was thinking I was about to read something genuinely interesting, not a dumbass joke that’s being blown out of proportion

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How is this a joke?

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

If you reverse the genders nobody would take it as a joke.

[–]allweknowisD 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It applies to both. Treat people in a way you wouldn’t want to expose yourself as a an asshole.

Not seeing why people are taking this to the extremes

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You are right. Absolutely.

Wonder why she had to say "This ones for the guys" though...

[–]allweknowisD 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

To ruffle some feathers maybe? Apparently it worked

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You a chick or a guy

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Girls, imagine that every guy you have sex with at work will make you pregnant."

Haha what chill it's just a joke

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like how all the BPers and feminists are quiet on this. Pretty telling really.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Isn't CNN the same one that threatened to dox a kid over a meme too? The US media is fucking weird and CNN seems like a giant shithole.

[–]boshin-goshin 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s a pretty nihilistic variation of feminism. Ezra Klein of Vox has also expressed similar sentiments.

The idea seems to be that since many/most women are somewhat/deeply fearful of being alone with men they don’t know well that it would be a good thing to introduce an element of fear in men in the same context.

It relies on an assumption that the introduction of more fear in that context would somehow result in net lesser fear overall. Which may be true, but certainly seems absurd on its face.

[–]justtenofusinhere 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

One should not engage in behavoir one would be embarassed to have exposed.

One should not be embarrased by most of the things they are told they should be.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

...Huh? What is this in response to?

[–]Offhisgame -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most women that call themselves a feminist don't give a shit about 'feminism' as in the extreme type that devote their lives/time to it. They just want to be with the crowd, and they want a fair chance for women.

If youre a decent guy, you have nothing to worry about going on dates. I haven't been accused of false rape cause guess what? I aint getting myself in situations where a woman would EVER accuse me. TRP guys?? Not so much...

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Unattractive feminists like her are still driven by hypergamy and suggesting things like that has an obvious two-fold goal:

  1. They can't have sex with high SMV men, so they want to castrate them and prevent them from having sex with pretty women (whom they are very jealous of for being prettier).

  2. They want to castrate low SMV men and prevent them from flirting with them. Low SMV men flirting with them (while at the same time high SMV men rejecting them) makes them realize that their own SMV is low.

Edit: syntax

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Relevant text:

”This one is just for guys: When you go on dates, act as if every woman you're talking to is a reporter for an online publication that you are scared of. One shouldn't need the threat of public exposure and scorn to treat women well; but if that's what it's gonna take, fine. Date like everyone's watching, because we are.”

paging /u/spacewhiskey. What say you to this?

[–]SpaceWhiskey🍃 Social Justice Druid 🍂 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’ve asked you to stop doing this. I haven’t read this thread yet. If/when I do I might get back to you.

[–]it_takes_the_redpillRed rover red rover send 'em all over 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What, you aren't on call? /s

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..|| 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

<crickets chirping>

[–]aznphenix 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

How is this not just harassment

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No more paging her chap if she’s made it clear she’s not into it.

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 0 points1 point  (31 children) | Copy Link

I don't see what was inflammatory in that statement whatsoever. Seems like solid advice.

[–]belletaco 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

agreed. if you feel attacked by this in anyway, you probably have done some questionable things on dates.

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, I'm not going to go so far as to cast aspersions on anyone with a different opinion, but I think a lot of people are purposely misinterpreting what Kaling said to confirm their own biases.

I took it to mean "With all the recent scandals coming out and the conversation we're finally having about sexual harassment and assault, it doesn't make sense to act as if your own scandal wouldn't be exposed eventually, so don't do bad shit!"

People think MeToo means they should avoid interacting with women at all costs, when it really means "Your bullshit isn't going to fly anymore, so just don't fucking do it!"

[–]belletaco 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I took it to mean "With all the recent scandals coming out and the conversation we're finally having about sexual harassment and assault, it doesn't make sense to act as if your own scandal wouldn't be exposed eventually, so don't do bad shit!"

Exactly! And I think that's a good message to send. Act as if people are watching, if that's what it takes - it shouldn't, but apparently it is!

[–]SlashCo80 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

The problem arises when a bunch of crazy man-haters get to decide what the "questionable" things are.

[–]belletaco 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Believing in boundaries does not make you a man hater.

[–]SlashCo80 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Virulent feminists "believe in boundaries" the same way that the WBC believes in Christian values.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What's inflammatory is the generalization to an entire class of male students.

[–]------__------------ -1 points0 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Yeah i agree with you.

SlimLovin you should try not to download any child porn for the next few days by the way, pretend someone from a newspaper is watching your browsing. Just dispensing solid advice.

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 1 point2 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Ok, I won’t. Since I don’t engage in that behavior, your advice suggesting I don’t engage in that behavior doesn’t offend me.

See how that works?

[–]------__------------ 0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

Not even the part where I imply that the only reason you don't is fear of being judged by the press? Don't think that's a bit of an unkind assumption about your character?

Would you be ok with me giving you that advice loudly in public?

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Sure, why not? My conscience is clean.

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here 1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Should Muslims be told to act like the CIA is watching them at all times?

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

In America? They already have to.

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Would you be okay with a public figure saying this?

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

The President already has.

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

And you support the President's message on this issue?

[–]SlashCo80 -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

If she'd addressed a message to black guys saying to always act like the police is watching, or to Muslims saying to pretend like Homeland Security is watching, would it also be solid advice?

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Black guys in America already know that. Ask one.

You're going down the same path Smoog tried.

[–]SlashCo80 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

And you're evading the issue. Why is it okay to act condescending towards an entire group and imply that only fear could motivate them to behave?

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Act condescending? She offered pretty practical advice. Don’t want a scandal? Don’t do anything scandal-worthy. Do it preemptively instead of apologizing for it later.

[–]SlashCo80 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's only "practical" if you believe that all men are potential rapists waiting for an opportunity.

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m sorry you feel that way.

[–]SlashCo80 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And I'm sorry you apparently hold that belief.

[–]abaxeron✴️(Not Actually) Indian Programmer -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Even if /r/MGTOW gets banned and every MGTOW Youtube channel gets banned, the message will keep spreading. Through and by women.

[–]belletaco 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good, any man who wants to go his own way is welcome and encouraged to.

[–]Splodge_Bob_WetPantsFind Balance -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mindy might be a single mom

Maybe she got pumped and dumped and thinks all men trash? TRP confirmed???

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]poppy_blu 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Born in Boston is not “foreign.”

Cause I guess it would be too much to ask you to attack her beliefs instead of her race.

[–]aznphenix 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She graduated from three

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

shes not a nobody, shes on the talmudvision

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]PPD-AngelIncel Ban Count: 25, FDS ban count: 2[M] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Take it to the AutoMod

[–]Asterix88 -1 points0 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

When did Mindy Kaling become the voice of feminism?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

She’s not, obviously. Her views are held and supported by plenty of feminists though, and they are collectively a voice of feminism—presently the loudest, I might add.

Now, if you’ve got a question or argument that isn’t so sophomoric, please share, but enough with the lame, pre-packaged, deliberately obtuse feminist apologetics.

[–]Asterix88 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

Are they really held by the majority of feminists?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

I think most feminists believe that most men need education to "unlearn" patriarchal norms that make them more likely to (unwittingly or no) commit acts of sexual harassment, assault, and rape. Not that most feminists believe most men are rapists, but that most believe men are conditioned to behave in ways that disregard women's sexual autonomy severely enough to cross into that territory.

To them, this isn't sexist, because it's true. To me, it's just sexist.

[–]belletaco 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

I don't see how this is sexist. I can see if someone thinks it's an inappropriate space to talk about it, which I also disagree with, but I don't see the sexism.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Generalizing the bad behavior of a minority of men to all men to such an extent that you think an entire gender needs to be re-educated? Yeah, little bit sexist.

[–]belletaco 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

It's overall advice - the way women are told to walk in groups or why rape whistles are given out on campuses. That advice needs to be heard by some men in that audience.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

It wasn't overall advice. Kaling gave one set of advice to men, and another to women; and to the men, she told to be careful and watch their behavior around women, whereas to women she encouraged to be more supportive of each other. It was very clearly, "men, you're bad, but we're watching now, so you won't get away with it anymore," and "women, you're good, but you should really support each other in your goodness!"

The entire speech was laced with feminist, pro-women, anti-male sentiment. You have to be a complete moron not to see it.

[–]belletaco 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Did you read her entire speech? Because this was like a blip compared to everything she said. In this time, celebrities are basically forced to address the 'me too' movement and I think she did it really well by saying, guys, don't do anything you wouldn't want the whole world knowing about and women, look out for one another.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

She also condescendingly told the male students to daydream about all this unearned money they're going to get later for being male (which is just a blatant lie). You're completely biased. The speech definitely had misandrist, patronizing, condescending feminist views incorporated into it.

[–]Sunshine_Cutie -1 points0 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

She wants men to be scared of how harassing a woman would effect his career. How the hell do you get the conclusion that she wants all men to be scared around women? It's a non sequier and I could tell even before I read the full article

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

It’s really not that difficult to see, and I suspect the reason you can’t is because you subscribe to the same sexist double-standards Kaling does. She addressed all men in the audience with this warning, implying all men need to hear it. Imagine if she had addressed all the black people in the audience and warned them that disproportionately engaging in violent crime would negatively impact their careers.

A minority of men harass women, and yet feminists generalize their admonishments about the behavior to all men, then admonish those who object with NAMALT complaints with tired, exasperated retorts of “well, of course NAMALT, But everyone knows that, and your need for us to be clear in our language is really just an expression of male insecurity and probably fears that you will engage in that sort of behavior.” All this, while they continue to complain about generalized language about women. They don’t want to play by their own rules.

So, yeah. Pretty obvious how sexist it is.

[–]Sunshine_Cutie -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

The reason she talks to all men about this is because men are far more likely to harass people than women are. The reason this would be disrespectful if she was telling black people not to disproportionatly commit crime is because 1: black people do not disproportionatly commit crimes if you account for class and 2: that would just be straight up racist. Unlike black people committing crimes, men actually have a problem with being significantly more violent with women than women are, unlike the made up concept that black people are more likely to commit crimes.

Thing is, telling men they shouldn't rape women and if they do they'll experience consequences isn't generalizing men at all. It's telling men that if they're rapists they'll experience consequences, and given that the issue of men not respecting women's boundaries is all too real for women it's an important conversation to have (unlike the non-existant problem of black people committing more crimes)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Nah, sorry, it’s sexist to give generalized advice to a group based on the bad behavior of a minority of people in that group, because it implies they need to hear it in order to not engage in that behavior. That’s Sexism 101.

And I believe, even when class differences are accounted for, there’s still some data suggesting violent crimes are disproportionately committed by blacks, but still some debate about how much police profiling contributes to it. I don’t believe there’s anything inherent to being black that makes one more likely to be violent, and the statistics are messy, so I’ll drop that as an example and choose a clearer one.

Would you be offended if Kaling had told all the women in the audience not to falsely accuse men of sexual assault?

[–]Sunshine_Cutie -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Would you be offended if Kaling had told all the women in the audience not to falsely accuse men of sexual assault?

I would be astounded she was tackling something that uncommon. Sexual assault is something that women actually have to worry about constantly to keep ourselves safe, whereas false rape accusations are something only paranoid MRAs worry about. If you give me stats showing that false rape accusations are far more common than I think, maybe I would believe you, but given that less than 6 out of everyone 1000 accusations of rape lead to jail time. Sexual assault is a very serious issue that women have to protect ourselves from our whole life, false rape accusations are incredibly uncommon and even when they do happen, seldom result in even a court showing.

I think the fact that I'm showing statistics to back up my argument while you express your feelings about Kaling's word choice says a lot about your position. You're gonna need more evidence to say that it's sexist to tell men there are consequences for rape, especially as you've yet to presented evidence that shows men are even a target of systemic sexism (you know... like women are)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I would be astounded she was tackling something that uncommon.

Way to dodge the question. I’ll ask again—would you be offended?

Sexual assault is something that women actually have to worry about constantly to keep ourselves safe

No, it’s not, and that’s demonstrated by the fact that women aren’t all complete nervous wrecks, invite first dates to their apartments, etc. The extent to which women have to constantly worry about this is hugely exaggerated by feminists. It’s a concern most women have to mind at least some of the time in certain situations. There are only two types of women who constantly rly worry about it: paranoid feminists, and traumatized female rape survivors (wherein the exaggerated fear is part of the trauma, and not reflective of the actual threat in society).

If you give me stats showing that false rape accusations are far more common than I think, maybe I would believe you

I’m on mobile, so browsing and providing links is cumbersome, but even i you want to go with the standard 2-10% rate, your argument evinces a double standard on your part. That statistic only refers to the proportion of accusations that are proven to be false, whether via evidence or confession. As your own statistic noted, only a tiny fraction of accusations are proven in court. By your own logic for dismissing the prevalence of false accusations, I can dismiss the prevalence of rape. The truth of the matter is that the vast majority of accusations are neither probable nor disprovable. So, we really don’t know the true rates of either.

I think the fact that I’m showing statistics to back up my argument while you express your feelings about Kaling’s word choice says a lot about your position.

I’m not just expressing feelings, I’m making arguments, which you aren’t doing a very good job of countering.

especially as you’ve yet to presented evidence that shows men are even a target of systemic sexism (you know... like women are)

If you don’t think men experience systemic sexism, I think there are quite a few feminists who would correct you on that. Even most feminists today acknowledge society is sexist towards men. I didn’t realize you were so behind the times. You might want to educate yourself a bit more.

[–]Sunshine_Cutie -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah i don't think you understand what systemic sexism means. Women suffer under it and men benefit from it in a multitude of ways (getting paid comparatively more, having to deal with harassment far less, having your opinions taken more seriously in comparison to ours, ect)

You need to think critically about what systemic oppression means, do women have power over men due to sexism? No we do not, and your implication that we do is just fucking hilarious tbh

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

How’s about, instead of condescendingly telling me I don’t understand a term, simply because I disagreed with something you said involving it, you ask me what I think it means? Stop femsplaining.

[–]Sunshine_Cutie -2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The problem isn't disagreement, the problem is you seem to have never experienced structural oppression and as such, conflate it with any social practice that doesn't favor men. Things like been expected to pick up the bill after a date might seem like a form of anti-man oppression, but if you had to experience what men having structural power over you every single day of your life meant, you would realize the "sexism" you believe men face is trivial.

This is a good video explaining the difference between experiencing structural oppression and just feeling disparaged. Its real long, but it comes from a guy that spent a lot of his young life on the side of the far right who was able to grow out of his misconceptions on what structural oppression means

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Since you can’t be civil, I won’t talk be continuing this conversation.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

She is dumb and unattractive.

[–]SlashCo80 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

She's not dumb, just not as smart or witty as she thinks. As for attractive... eh.

[–]solorathain -3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

lol this is what women really think.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think so. This is just how feminists want them to think.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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