TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

47

I don't know if it's in their "bible" or if it's just the go to response of some individuals there, but anyway why is this so popular:

Father abandons child? Woman chose wrong

Marriage fell apart? Woman chose wrong

Father's an alcoholic? Woman chose wrong

?

Looks like redpill want men to be treated like children and women as their parent. Or like passive leaves in the wind. But how do they agree this with the other 'theory' that men are the responsible gender while women aren't? Cognitive dissonance when convenient?


[–]MercedesBenzoAMGbringing percocets molly percocet back to ppd50 points51 points  (52 children) | Copy Link

That's not really what it's meant to be. The idea is meant to be own your shit and realise only you have control over your life. Never blame others for your own choices.

But I think this attitude is prevalent just because it's a reaction to the opposite sentiment in mainstream society where men are blamed for everything. And it's not just women blaming men out there either. For example my dad, bit of a white knight, if he finds out a man got divorced or even if he was abused, his response will always be "what did he do to piss her off so much?"

[–]M4sterDis4ster6 points7 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

I blame men for marrying bad women as much as I blame women marrying bad men.

My friend just got engaged to a girl with primary education, jobless and never had a job at the age of 25, not to mention how many guys got into her pants without the engagement ring.

So, even though my friend is smart and succesfull, this will fall apart very soon and after it falls apart anything he can get is "You had it coming." No pity or sympathy for men like him.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

“I blame men for marrying bad women”

That’s the point of OP though. Bad women aren’t the only reason marriages fail. It seems like that’s what TRP believes.

[–]paccount112You're delusions are making me red8 points9 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

doesn't the married red pill sub have a regular own your shit thread? Seems like they are aware of their culpability, no?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

“70-90% of marriages are ended by the women”

Definitely seems like they’re blaming primarily women. That’s one person, and doesn’t necessarily represent the whole TRP, but that’s not the first time I’ve seen that study cited.

[–]paccount112You're delusions are making me red13 points14 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

That's not blame, that's a statistic. If you're saying 70% of failed marriage are a womans fault, that would be blame.

All that stat says is that of the marriage that end, 70% of them are initiated by women. Any further comment is either attached to the details of that stat, or projection from the person.

Case in point, you attributing it to blame

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes it’s assuming what that stat means, which I’ve seen plenty of them do.

[–]paccount112You're delusions are making me red4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Again, 4th hand, it's hard for me to have an opinion

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What does that mean

[–]paccount112You're delusions are making me red2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's 4th hand conversations, how am I supposed to have an opinion on them?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I recognize that it’s a statistic, but in the context of how it was used, I don’t think it’s far fetched to believe that it’s assigning some blame.

[–]paccount112You're delusions are making me red3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Considering we are discussing this 4th hand, you'll forgive me if I reserve judgement.

[–]M4sterDis4ster7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Both genders have same rights and free will to choose their partners. The only difference is that the priorities are different for men and women.

About divorce statistics ; It is still a fact that women use no-fault divorce a lot, because men for sure arent "pigs" in 70% of cases.

I blame men more to be honest, because any man with options and integrity would definetely choose better and smarter. Men today, are hardly men.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Read the book “Open Her” by Karen Brody. It usually is the man’s fault because he stops courting.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wait, so you're suggesting skeptics read a book, written by a woman, explaining how it's all men's fault that women divorce them, because "he stops courting"? Do you understand the meaning of "courting"? It's not the same behavior as maintaining a marriage.

What of women who promise one thing while trying to land a husband, and deliver something else entirely when they do? Is anything their fault, or do you still blame the man, because reasons?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s not what the book is about. It’s about the definition of true masculinity and how our society has been robbed of it. She is a sex and relationship therapist, one of the highest paid therapists in the country, and has helped stitch together a lot of relationships that were failing. It wouldn’t benefit her to be biased. She profits by doing what works.

Check out the book.

[–]MercedesBenzoAMGbringing percocets molly percocet back to ppd6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes I agree hold everyone accountable for their own decisions regardless of gender. That's pretty much what I support as the ideal. This should be the bare minimum expected from adults, it shouldn't even be a discussion.

Your friend is an idiot for sure.

[–]M4sterDis4ster4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, I wouldnt say that he is an idiot ( mentally ) , but that he is insecure, unexperienced and shy guy... Yes, most definetely.

When we were kids, while drinking in a park, a friend from group told him ; " Yo dude, you will marry the first girl who gives you some pussy."

I guess he was a prophet.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.4 points5 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

Even if it is just a “reaction to MSM” I don’t see why it’s relevant to use as a debate argument here. We aren’t the MSM, and most people here aren’t running around saying women are angels and they can do no wrong.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

most people here aren’t running around saying women are angels and they can do no wrong.

There are not too many feminists on PPD.

[–]PhucCheet 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

But the TRP philosophy was not formed as a response to the context of PPD community. It was formed as a response to mainstream society, feminism, and so on. Those RP beliefs exist beyond PPD and this debate.

If you come here challenging "but why do RP men say this?", the answer is not because of PPD, but that doesn't invalidate the belief.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

I’m not arguing those beliefs aren’t allowed to exist, I’m arguing it’s not a great argument when you’re discussing things here, unless maybe the discussion is about what messages the MSM allegedly promotes.

“Women are always to blame” as a reaction to some alleged MSM messaging isn’t a great argument for the discussions we have here.

It's not all about you.

Nobody said it was. Like at all.

[–]PhucCheet 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

The OP question was "why are RP such a fans of the theory..."? The answer is because of those beliefs, which exist beyond PPD.

If you ask why RP believes something, the answer doesn't have to be limited to PPD. RP beliefs transcend PPD. Sometimes the answer is "because of reasons that have nothing to do with this sub", and that's a perfectly good argument for why RP believes something.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.4 points5 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Look man, if someone is going to respond to something here with "women are always to blame" and say I were to ask why, I would expect them to come up with something better than "well, MSM says it's the man's fault so there". Which is doubly ironic considering that is something they don't like (attribution of all fault/ills to men). Yet it's a solid argument to do this to women?

"because of reasons that have nothing to do with this sub", and that's a perfectly good argument for why RP believes something.

I don't disagree with that. That is fine. But regardless, maybe you find what I said above to be a convincing argument. I personally do not.

[–]PhucCheet 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Look man, if someone is going to respond to something here with "women are always to blame" and say I were to ask why,

But that's not what happened here. Based on the wording of this post, it's NOT asking why RP says "women are always to blame" as a response to PPD arguments. It's not about any specific response or specific PPD debate topic. It's asking about RP beliefs in general, which were formed for reasons outside this sub.

If you ask a Catholic "why do you believe in God", his answer doesn't need to have anything to do with other people's responses to something on PPD.

I think you're solipsistically personalizing this. For this topic, you personally want to know why certain men used certain counterarguments against you in the past. But the guy you replied to wasn't answering your personal question. He, and most other RPers here, are answering the OP question.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

I’m not at all personalizing this. I’m not OP, I didn’t even ask the question. I’m just pointing out a common refrain from around here that isn’t really much of an argument. I don’t even disagree that men feel this way and I’m not telling anyone those feelings are “wrong” in some way. It’s just not a good argument.

Edit: it’s personalizing to not believe an argument is convincing?

[–]PhucCheet 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I’m just pointing out a common refrain from around here that isn’t really much of an argument.

Because it's not an argument against PPD. It's an RP belief and an argument against mainstream society. It's a great argument against MSM.

If you think it's meant to be an argument against you or PPD, that's how you're personalizing it.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

No, that’s not personalizing it. It’s bizarre you think me disagreeing that it’s an example of a sound argument is personalizing it. It is often raised here, on PPD, to PPD topics so yes it’s often used that way.

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The frame here is about the relation between a man not chosen by a woman and the woman who chooses the asshole man who abandons her. The fact that the man is an asshole is already implied but the main idea in the story is that this woman probably had a choice between baby-daddy man and a long list of beta orbiters who would have never conceived of abandoning her and the baby and yet she chose baby-daddy man because of his big muscles and pretty face.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Those are all massive assumptions.

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That's how the TRP narrative goes; no assumptions made in that regard.

If you're talking about assuming single mother lady had more stable options than baby-daddy man, I'd say that was a fair assumption. Most women have some "crazy guy" obsessed with them don't they? I bet he'd do anything for them.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Almost everyone has had at one point in their life a “more stable option” at least in SOME aspect of a relationship.

If you just want to go with the stereotype you originally listed, if that’s truly the case, ie woman who dates some super obvious, non-committal “bad boy” versus some beta orbiter who is super well-adjusted and ready to commit for life, ok. But I doubt it’s often that black and white.

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It might not be black and white, but in the hypothetical TRP situation it is, at least to the outsider observing in.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And if that “observer” ever gets hurt by a person you could easily find “red flags” in whatever person it is who hurt them.

[–]MercedesBenzoAMGbringing percocets molly percocet back to ppd0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I never mentioned the MSM. I mentioned mainstream society, not the media.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

It's not that men have no agency or judgment.

It's that women ALSO have agency and judgment.

So, yes. If a woman chooses a man who abandons her and the child, or who is an alcoholic, who chose that man to father her child? Who said to herself "self, choose THAT deadbeat scumbag asshole jerk irresponsible fuck drunk addict man to father your child." The man didn't say that. SHE did.

Yes, if you choose a man and your marriage fell apart, it's not just HIS fault. It's HERS too - it takes TWO to break a marriage. the failure of a marriage is NEVER 100% one party's fault. If he cheated, we must ask - why did he feel the need to cheat? And why did she pick him?

No, we don't want men treated like children. Or that women should parent them. We want women treated like adults with agency. All I have ever heard for the last 40 years is how strong women are, how independent women are, how good and kind and wonderful women are, how they don't need men, and how they can do it all themselves.

OK.

Then, women, BE ADULTS. Be responsible. And own YOUR own shit. If you chose a deadbeat drunk, that's on YOU. If your marriage is falling apart, then you own your part of it.

All we're saying is women are adults too. And we're treating them as the "strong, independent" adults they claim to be. Part of being a "strong, independent" adult is owning your shit and taking responsibility for your own decisions.

So take responsibility for them, women.

[–]caygirl7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

They do it by divorcing obviously

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

They do what by divorcing?

[–]caygirl8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Own up to their shit and end the problem by taking action and separating from the other person. The lack of action and decision to stay in a marriage like that would be the real irresponsibility. Some women take forever to leave the situation due to this.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sure. But they get men to pay for it, and courts force men to pay for it. Forever.

So if a woman leaves but the man has to pay for it, is she really taking responsibility?

[–]caygirl6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Instead of blaming the woman, blame the system.

She is taking responsibility by removing herself from the relationship, otherwise, I’m not sure what else she is supposed to do.

If there are children, she cares for them the majority of the time, she works full-time. The divorced father sees the children on the weekends, typically. They say being a single parent is like a full-time job.

If there are kids, when she was married, she probably didn’t climb the corporate ladder so aggressively like the man, and depending on total income, she worked part-time than full-time. She decided on fewer hours to care for the kids. Maybe she has a small business. Her role was supplementary income, now she has to be primary income.

So, her full-time job likely doesn’t pay well, and she’s saddled with the majority of expenses for the kids. I can see why the court favors women on this regard.

Are there many women who abuse this? Oh, definitely. Are there men who get screwed by this system? Yes. I can think of a neighbor of mine who recently divorced his wife with 3 kids, and had a hard time with it because she benefited the most despite her being the one to physically and emotionally abuse him.

But I would argue that women are getting screwed just like the men, and it isn’t just about the money. But women are making the choice to divorce, because perhaps their husband is a chronic cheater and she can’t stand for the lack of respect, maybe the husband got a surgery and then now has an opioid addiction and won’t seek help for it. Maybe he drinks, or maybe he’s an emotional abuser who calls her worthless and stupid, and they’re always fighting about the most stupid stuff. Maybe he stopped investing in the relationship and she’s doing all the work and tired of the dead weight. People don’t just divorce because they want to, they do it at the last resort after everything else, every resource to keep the marriage together has failed.

Most cases, divorce ends with assets split 50/50. What’s unfair about that? If you say, the man brought in most of the assets, then the argument is that if you’re married, it is all shared because you’re one unit, a team.

That’s without kids.

Men get squeezed more with child support payments pretty much. If the woman, on average, earns less money because of child rearing, and spends most of the time with the custody of children, then shouldn’t she get more money? Child Support Payments are the court wanting to keep the kids from eating air. A working man with a child is going to pay for the kid’s expenses than the government. Bottom line.

If you don’t like the arrangement, don’t get married and have children. Or get married and hide your assets so you don’t lose much if the marriage doesn’t work out. I can argue that these divorced men chose bad wives and got themselves in these situations, and should take responsibility for their actions, just like how some commenters on here are saying it’s the women’s fault for choosing the drunk husband and should take responsibility for their faults. Touché.

Here’s how to take responsibility: if a relationship doesn’t work out. You leave after exhausting other resources to repair the relationship. Inaction is far, far easier and less painful.

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Instead of blaming the woman, blame the system. She is taking responsibility by removing herself from the relationship, otherwise, I’m not sure what else she is supposed to do.

Instead of blaming the murderer, blame the kitchen knives.

A woman is physically capable of taking responsibility, earning for herself, and not filing for divorce rape. Just quite often, she chooses to do the opposite.

People don’t just divorce because they want to

Women do. Not just because they want to, but because marriage has fulfilled its role for them. For example, husbands absorbed their student debt.

If there are kids, when she was married, she probably didn’t climb the corporate ladder

...WHICH IS TOTALLY AN EXCUSE TO KILL MEN, THROW THEM IN CAGES, AND DRIVE THEM TO SUICIDE

Most cases, divorce ends with assets split 50/50. What’s unfair about that? If you say, the man brought in most of the assets, then the argument is that if you’re married, it is all shared because you’re one unit, a team.

So, coverture still works, but only when it benefits a woman? How about No? How about you don't get to bring up coverture after spending 2 and a half centuries screeching on the top of your lungs that it's an archaic and unfair pracrice instituted to oppress women? How about the fact that coverture has been officially abolished and should not work as a legal argument?

There are continental jurisdictions in which it is the case - if you're married, your joint assets are shared; BUT, in common law jurisdictions, a woman can get the right to her father-in-law's house, if her father in law dies, and she oh so happens to dump her husband one day after he inherited said house.

[–]lovelybethanie10 points11 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Because everyone likes to blame women.

You got raped? Shouldn’t have worn those clothes. Shouldn’t have been so nice to him. Shouldn’t have drank too much. Shouldn’t have been by yourself.

Society blames women for problems when they pertain to men and men who are at fault.

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

TRP complain when there's an extremely sexually attractive man who, men without gay goggles can see is a bit shady and they couldn't picture him being a child rearing type of guy, and the woman picks that guy over a long list of less attractive, clearly more stable guys.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because there's just a buffet of guys who you know are more stable just waiting around for every woman.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You confuse blaming with pointing out personal responsibility, which is common in people who lack personal agency.

[–]justhanging920 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

With the rape examples, it sounds more like men have no agency, being nice to a dude or dressing a certain way seems like the dumbest reasons to blame someone for their own rape. Very much reminds me of the time my dad blames a girl for her own murder by an ex by saying “she shouldn’t have been playing around with guys” even though she was in high school and break ups are a normal part of life. The problem, I think, is people exaggerate how far personal responsibilities goes

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

With the rape examples, it sounds more like men have no agency, being nice to a dude or dressing a certain way seems like the dumbest reasons to blame someone for their own rape.

With the exceptions of your dad, which have nothing to do with the topic at hand, that's not blaming, it's looking at responsibility. You basically just proved my point with what you're saying, confusing blame with personal responsibility.

The problem, I think, is people exaggerate how far personal responsibilities goes

People go very far to remove any personal responsibility from themselves, especially women (themselves and people who don't want women to have personal responsibility, which goes for either side).

[–]justhanging920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I meantion my dad because these things follow the same line of reasoning, if you did x then it’s your fault y happened, regardless of how extreme it sounds. You are saying a woman being nice to a man or seeing how they are dressed is making them responsible, and I’m thinking that’s already taking it a bit too far.

People go very far to remove any personal responsibility from themselves, especially women (themselves and people who don't want women to have personal responsibility, which goes for either side).

This is why I think people in the manosphere automatically assume fault in the woman or start thinking in the extremes and think that is normal or just.

[–]jimba2225 points26 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

I'm not RP, but I agree and find this quite strange

Although I guess their point is that the women should have known better?

Anyhow they like to blame women for most things

[–]max_peenorCertified TRP Shitlord4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Although I guess their point is that the women should have known better?

I have a hard time with how bloopers reconcile patriarchal controlling shitlords that take no responsibility for anything with respect to childish females that should have all their rights but can't make any decisions but everything is rape if they say it is.

Their fabricated view of RP is so contorted that it makes absolutely no sense.

Marriage fell apart? Woman chose wrong

Where the fuck has anyone actually said this? TRP 101: if your marriage falls apart now, i's because you (the male) chose to get married. It has nothing to do with what a woman chooses or does.

More strawmen than in Kansas in September....

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

then put your comment under automod, sir/mam

[–]LittleknownfactsVaguely Uncivil Comment[M] 5 points6 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Purple pill people are allowed to post under both red and blue tags.

[–]DrippyskippyMonk2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like purple pill people have more privilege than RP and BP users then. From a non feminist egalitarian perspective, treating PP people as first class citizens and RP and BP as 2nd class citizens, (fewer rights) the mods are clearly showing bias in this regard. As a reddish purple user myself, I personally benefit from this favoritism, yet I still feel a need to call things as I see them.

[–]LittleknownfactsVaguely Uncivil Comment[M] 14 points15 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

You guys are going to ruin your eyes trying to find bias. No one ever specifically asks purple pill anything, if they weren't allowed to answer q4rp and q4bp they wouldn't be allowed to answer anywhere, then you'd be complaining we are biased against ppers. Also this has been the rule since the beginning of time. Any further modding concerns you can message the mods.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No one ever specifically asks purple pill anything

I think it happened once, at the very least

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You guys are going to ruin your eyes trying to find bias.

I thought he was being facetious.

[–]LittleknownfactsVaguely Uncivil Comment1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wasn't picking up those vibes at all... But I am likely overlook things like that.

[–]paccount112You're delusions are making me red0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

isn't this what automod is for?

[–]LittleknownfactsVaguely Uncivil Comment4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Automod is for when the opposite pill wants to respond.

[–]paccount112You're delusions are making me red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

  • You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.

  • For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.

  • If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.

  • OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Says here that it's just for being off topic, agreeing with OP. No mention of the opposite pill response. Sounds pretty clear that it's for anyone not specifically asked in the OP. Wanna clear up the wording?

[–]LittleknownfactsVaguely Uncivil Comment5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

  • For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.

Says here that it's just for being off topic, agreeing with OP. No mention of the opposite pill response. Sounds pretty clear that it's for anyone not specifically asked in the OP. Wanna clear up the wording?

Purple pill is considered part of the target group in a Q4RP thread since they hold at least some redpill views. Bluepillers would reply under automod in this case.

[–]Drippyskippy 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not ruining my eyes if I already found. You have a solution to the problem I n your own post. Make q4pp. But I could understand if you don't want to fix problems that benefit you. Typical purple pill cis white male enforcing the pillarchy.

[–]LittleknownfactsVaguely Uncivil Comment1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No one would use it.

[–]Offhisgame 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Who the fuck cares

[–]Drippyskippy 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Sir please calm down and untangle your panties. The emotion is deafening.

[–]MercedesBenzoAMGbringing percocets molly percocet back to ppd4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's just Reddit man.

[–]DrippyskippyMonk1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The pillarchy is real I just proved it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Really??? Seems a bit absurd

[–]LittleknownfactsVaguely Uncivil Comment[M] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No one ever asks purple pillers questions, if it wasn't this way, we'd never hear from them.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh ok fair enough.

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not about shirking the father's responsibility who abandons his child here. TRPers are not identifying with this man in the TRP narrative. TRPers are identifying with the beta male on the sidelines watching the whole debacle who got disillusioned by his oneitis who chose baby-daddy man over him.

[–]Feanorfanclub0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree and find this quite strange

Seems simple to me. Women are the ones usually complaining about these topics, so people usually point out they walked into it. People regularly do the same thing when a dude complains about child support for instance.

[–]Gravel_RoadsJust a Pill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol have you not seen all the hatred men have for women that get child support? Most redpillers seem to want to abolish all child support to protect the poor menz from the evil single mothers.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men don't hate women for getting child support. That is a ridiculous strawman. Men hate women who get child support that takes more than half of the father's income. Men hate women who get child support despite the fact that they live with wealthy parents who pay for everything. Men hate women who impoverish their exes while denying them visitation.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth15 points16 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

Well, it’s not particularly the things you highlighted. RP is really of the theory that very few humans are really making conscious/rational decisions concerning sex or relationships. They’re generally following genetic instincts and then later rationalizing to themselves why they made that “conscious” choice, when in reality it was no such thing. The conscious reason being a post-hoc rationalisation.

The examples you cited are something else, and I’m not sure they’re strictly fair to be honest.

When a woman complains about her chosen husband being an alcoholic, then it’s appropriate to point out she chose him (for example). The guy himself is responsible for being an alcoholic, but she’s responsible for choosing that guy as a partner.

Similarly, I don’t think they always blame women for marriages falling apart... so much as blame women for th kind of “recreational dovorce” that might be at the heart of a large segment of current divorces.

Similarly on the babies/daddy doing a flit.... that’s a rationale around her (and only her) having the choice on abortion and emergency BC. What they tend to be railing against there are what they see as irresponsible choices made by the woman over the objections of the man, where the man doesn’t really get a veto or necessarily much input into the decision.

This is an OP that seems to me to be greatly oversimplifying what we do say, in order to use that simplified beyond recognition version to hit RP with a “Gotcha! Checkmate Atheists!” kind of debate.

As such it’s unlikely to be fruitful unless you’re prepared To discuss our views in a bit more detail and granularity for the purpose of understanding them.... rather than a deliberate misunderstanding of them designed to corner us from the start of the conversation.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But they do say that stuff. Often. There are plenty who aren’t elaborating on it and applying nuance at all. It’s just a “she should have picked better” comment, how is that supposed to be interpreted but for “it’s her fault for not picking better”?

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So when a man complains about his chosen wife being a liar, cheater, nag, sexless, etc, its appropriate to point out he chose her. He's responsible for chosing that women as a partner.

Especially since statistically its men who propose 95% of the time.

Right?

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, yeah.

Ultimately guys are responsible for their choices. Although they do want to moan about it it's their issue to sort out.

[–]neverfearlife 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

What if said husband started doing alcohol and drugs a few years into the marriage? So she divorced him for the sake of kids but using the "no-fault" cause for divorce.

No she is a single mother and gets blamed by "choosing her mate poorly". How in the world would she predict that?

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

She's not a single mother. She's a divorcee.

Seeing as we're having a spate of these threads lately, you can see perfectly well that I've been making the distinction... both of these are me...

http://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8i3qs7/women_are_never_completely_at_fault_if_they_end_up_single_mothers./dyowfu8?context=3

http://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8i77xk/how_are_you_supposed_to_vet_if_a_man_will_be_a_good_fathernot_change_after_/dypqsrr?context=3

So thats not a valid scenario in my instance, certainly.

[–]planejaneThree Trench Coats in a Trench Coat.3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The parent comment as well as /u/sublimemongrel are indicative of something I've been saying for months, though-Reds do not police their own.

It's not a tone argument, it's not a censorship thing. It's that we have TRPs come in who make statements like the ones they're describing, or guys still in the Anger Phase who have not understood the nuances and actual facts of the discussion cause (dare I say) intense emotion is still clouding their perceptions.

While I get that nobody is really responsible for anybody else's actions, for this particular environment, it's harmful to the usefulness of the debate. I don't agree with it, but I understand why BP think so many Reds are crazy or totally out of touch with reality-because they see stuff like what they've described and no Red comes in to check their own.

While I don't think censorship or even modding is really necessary, what situations like the above do is force Blues to accept all such descriptions, declarations, and arguments as good-faith and representative of RP thought.

I'd really like to see more Reds challenge their own. I think it's why we've seen an influx of more extreme blues in the last few weeks, and even more level-headed moderate folks supporting them. I've even come to enjoy Jammerly's posts cause it's come to be fair play with the degree of unchecked near-insanity that's developed from Red thoughts lately. It's just the system finding a degree of balance.

I'd prefer to see all folks be more rational and logical, to discuss actual facts, statistics, and influences, but that's not what's turning up. Low-hanging fruit is becoming more common in all camps.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The parent comment as well as /u/sublimemongrel are indicative of something I've been saying for months, though-Reds do not police their own.

IME, they do. That is.... they don't delete those threads, generally (RP offers guys an open forum to say what they want about women, including whining) but if you look in the comments, and I'm thinking here specifically about MRP as this is a married situation, then you'll generally find that full of guys saying "Well, this is your problem now. What are you going to do about it. Guys have to sort their own shit out, no-one is going to do it for them".

It's not a tone argument, it's not a censorship thing. It's that we have TRPs come in who make statements like the ones they're describing, or guys still in the Anger Phase who have not understood the nuances and actual facts of the discussion cause (dare I say) intense emotion is still clouding their perceptions.

Yes, and because this isn't an RP sub they get listened to and it gets discussed. On an RP sub.... they get told to stop whining and sort it out. TBH, iI think we get a lot more whining here as its an outlet for that here, and on MRP they'd get generally yelled at about the whining, shut down and told "Well, own your own shit. What are you going to do about it ?" (certainly, if its their personal example). I think whining inclined reds come and post here with their whining expressly because they'd be given short shrift within RP, certanly with anything thats a personal example.

While I get that nobody is really responsible for anybody else's actions, for this particular environment, it's harmful to the usefulness of the debate. I don't agree with it, but I understand why BP think so many Reds are crazy or totally out of touch with reality-because they see stuff like what they've described and no Red comes in to check their own.

Because we generally don't RP each other round here. This is a debate sub.... and like anything that kinda gets mentally divided into "sides" and peoples natural inclination is to "Ra ra" their own team and "Booooooo" the other team.

I don't generally see bloops calling out their own and telling them that this is their fault either much, probably for a similar reason.

While I don't think censorship or even modding is really necessary, what situations like the above do is force Blues to accept all such descriptions, declarations, and arguments as good-faith and representative of RP thought.

Well, yeah. It's a debate sub. You've got to argue with the points presented to you.

I'd really like to see more Reds challenge their own. I think it's why we've seen an influx of more extreme blues in the last few weeks, and even more level-headed moderate folks supporting them. I've even come to enjoy Jammerly's posts cause it's come to be fair play with the degree of unchecked near-insanity that's developed from Red thoughts lately. It's just the system finding a degree of balance.

I like Jammerly, I wish we had more posters like her.... For exactly the reasons you describe. I wish we didn't have to mod her so harshly for her incivility to keep consistent. I'd like her to continue posting. From my viewpoint I think we can stand a bit more incivility, but everyone gets their panties in a wad about inconsistency and that forces a kind of one way ratchet in mod strictness.

And I like the influx of new extreme bloops in general. Gives you something to sink your teeth into. What I think we need are more representative reds, but you have to live with who turns up.

I'd prefer to see all folks be more rational and logical, to discuss actual facts, statistics, and influences, but that's not what's turning up. Low-hanging fruit is becoming more common in all camps.

I think these things go in cycles. And to be fair, when people do well argued and data heavy posts they tend to get not as upvoted as the gotcha's. Certainly, my experience is data heavy red posts don't get a lot of love. We seem to have a LOT of "blue upvotes" at the moment. When I try to well argue points they frequently reside near the bottom of the thread because people are upvoting snappy one liners, and blue ones particularly. There also seems to be an epidemic of downvoting there wasn't before. I've certainly experienced the "automatic blue downvote" from my interlocutor a lot. But I suspect blues would report the same from the reds too, I just wouldn't know on that score.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this4 points5 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

This is an OP that seems to me to be greatly oversimplifying what we do say

Except that I've literally had people on this sub tell me that it's completely a woman's fault if she ends up with someone abusive because "she should have vetted better".

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy Link

Whose fault is it if not?

it's completely a woman's fault if she ends up with someone abusive

"She ends up" sounds like a passive action, something that just happened to the woman. I'm not a fan of mudding responsibility with the word "fault", but our partners of choice are our own responsibility, so is our course of action if the relationship goes sour. This is true for both men and women.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this2 points3 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Great, so it's a man's fault when he gets divorce raped.

I agree with the fault thing, however, that is the wording they use. If they say it's a woman's responsibility to vet better, then sure. However, it's always phrased so that the blame is on the woman.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

Divorce-rape is a consequence of a terrible system.

However, it's always phrased so that the blame is on the woman.

Or you're seeing "blame" when responsibility is being mentioned, which is extremely common amongst people who don't fully embrace personal responsibility.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Or you're seeing "blame" when responsibility is being mentioned, which is extremely common amongst people who don't fully embrace personal responsibility.

I would say this looks like blame, wouldn't you?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

His rambling is confusing, but he literally says that women make no mistakes and that women get involved knowingly with promiscuous womanizers. It's about responsibility.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

So people see all red flags about all people all the time?

So when someone gets stabbed, it's their fault because they should've seen the red flags.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

You're just proving my point. You don't understand personal responsibility and you confuse it with blame. You keep throwing single lines that have zero context, what are you exactly trying to achieve here?

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

So basically, a woman can't date anyone to be fully responsible. She can't choose anyone bad, and since it's nigh impossible to avoid bad people, she can't date anyone. I'll dump my boyfriend now. Goodnight.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Divorce-rape is a consequence of a terrible system.

So is abuse. Men truly are at fault for getting divorce raped. No one forced her to divorce him, he should have vetted better for a woman that would not divorce.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Divorce-rape is caused by laws and a third-party being. Abuse is direct.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

No one forced the hands of the women that divorce rape to take advantage and divorce rape, just like no one forced the men who abuse to abuse. If he had vetted better, then perhaps he would have ended up with a woman that would not take advantage of how easy it is to divorce rape.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, a man is responsible for the women he picked, I never denied this. It's still doesn't make him faulty of divorce-rape because that's the work of third parties.

[–]AJ_DragonGod4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Im trying to explain arguments. I dont nesisarily believe anything here.

Providing examples would make this easier for people to argue about since these are soundbites...but...

“Man abandons child, womans fault” This could mean a few different things but from experience id guess its likley connected to race. Eg the white woman is at fault for choosing a black man, so why is she suprised he left. For a non racist version simply sub black man for drug dealer, scumbag, guy on welfare etc etc. when an average women choses to have kids with a man who is obviously a bad choice its kinda her fault since she should have seen this coming and made better decisions. The drug dealer is already garbage and it’s unreasonable to expect him to be faithful or responsible.

“Marriage fell apart, woman chose wrong” I dont actually think this is an argument made by anyone ever. (THIS IS WHY EXAMPLES ARE GOOD). The actual argument being made is likely based around women using divorce as a weapon and ending marriage to break men, take the kids and take his money. This is an argument that gets made a lot and is far simpler. If a woman marries a wealthier man, then divorces him later with the intent to profit off it (see trophy wives who make millions) it’s obviously her fault.

“Fathers and alcoholic, woman chose wrong” This ties in heavily with the first one but is far clearer cut. If a woman meets a man who is an alcoholic and then chooses to marry him and have a kid with him how is it not her fault that the father of her child is an alcoholic? The fathers alchoholism is the fathers fault, but the fact that hes the father of her kid is her fault. So in reverse.

“A man marries a drug addicted woman and has kids with her. She inevitably shirks her responsibility to look after said kids (since she doesnt work in this example) cause shes on drugs and they drown in the bath”.

Now in that individual situation the woman is at fault since she was too high to keep her kids safe. But big picture what do you expect when you have children with an active drug user, that man should have made a better decision.

[–]lefactorybebe12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm just going to respond to your alcoholic one. Why is not beyond the realm of possibility that the husband became an alcoholic after they had met/married? I just don't understand that line of thinking. I don't believe many people walk into relationships with active alcoholics skipping through a spring meadow singing that everything will be fine.

My ex was an alcoholic. I had no way of knowing that would happen to him, he started drinking after we were together for around a year.

[–]AJ_DragonGod2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Idk. I havent seen anyone claim a wife is automatically responsible for her husbands alcoholism if it happens after they are married? Have you?

[–]lefactorybebe5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Idk, you failed to mention that as even a possibility, so idk if you're including that in your comment or not.

[–]AJ_DragonGod0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

No. Because no one argues that

[–]lefactorybebe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mmkay, thanks.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

1) Let's be clear, the drug dealer, scumbag, etc are at fault for fucking up her life. She may be responsible for choosing to be with those scumbags but they are the men that we all f%king hate. (And in for single men, there is also envy because the indisputably scumbag man got her and the other guy didn't.) But we can't stop these scumbags from being scumbags because it lands them hella women. They keep getting rewarded for their scumbaggery.

2) We all justifiably hate gold diggers but also let's not forget the dude married her, so yeah it is his fault also. Maybe part of our message should be stop marrying gold diggers? We should be shaming those men, too.

3) Alcoholics - see 1)

4) Re: drug addicted woman, and "that man should have made a better decision" - nah nah nah, let's be straight up here, the dude was a f%&king idiot for knowingly sticking his &%$# in crazy.

I'm going to expand on #4 also, pining for gold diggers, pining women who chase scumbag men, etc., is the man's fault and he needs some "brotherly edification" - aka "dude you f%king idiot stop doing that!" LOL

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

1) Let's be clear, the drug dealer, scumbag, etc are at fault for fucking up her life

WRONG!

If she is some fragile flower, without agency to select a life partner who isn't a complete piece of shit, then the blame can be mostly placed on the scumbag. If women are fully-realized adult human beings, capable of making their own decisions, then it's on them to choose better. Want to be treated like a grown-up? Grow the fuck up.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Boy did you get triggered. You failed to read the next part: She may be responsible for choosing to be with those scumbags

Sorry but not sorry, blame goes both ways here. She's not acting like a grown-up, and neither is the scumbag.

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere3 points4 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Father abandons child? Woman chose wrong

Marriage fell apart? Woman chose wrong

Father's an alcoholic? Woman chose wrong

The reason is because the kind of men who come to red pill, surprisingly enough, would never do such a thing. Take it in the context of, "Women chose the other guy who abandoned his children and not me? Bad choice." The fact that the guy is a piece of shit is already implied. Most people grow up hearing that message. The message that isn't heard is that sometimes the baby daddy guys are more sexually attractive, and that is why women choose them. TRP guys want to learn, if possible, how to be more like the baby daddy guy without being a piece of shit. Either that or they say, hey, women choose sexually attractive guys even if they're an asshole, and sometimes even because of it, maybe I should just be an asshole. It's focused on women's choices not to shirk the man's responsibility but as a sort of: "Fuck you for choosing him and not me."

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

kind of men who come to red pill, surprisingly enough, would never do such a thing.

Oh come on. You literally have no way of knowing how many TRPs are alcoholics, drug addicts, abusers, etc.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If they were alcoholics, drug addicts, abusers, etc., they would have women fanatically devoted to them, and three or four side chicks as well. They are pussy magnets. Women can't resist damaged men. They treat them like works in progress. They believe they can fix them, and mold them into ideal men who would never ever leave.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Mmkay

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, it's better than "k". We're making progress. Soon, you will respond with actual words. Maybe we'll get a coherent sentence out of you yet.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ive got a coherent sentence for you. But it would get me banned.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

K

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

I'd be willing to bet lots of money that the main audience for TRP is nerds who are either too skinny or too fat, young, socially isolated, and sober.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

too skinny or too fat, young, socially isolated

not one of these things preclude being a drunk, addict or abuser

I'd be willing to bet

Because you bought the narrative that TRPs are automatically the good guys and the men they lost out to are automatically the bad guys?

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

not one of these things preclude being a drunk, addict or abuser

Can you really be an abuser with no one to abuse?

Because you bought the narrative that TRPs are automatically the good guys and the men they lost out to are automatically the bad guys?

I'm on their side. I guess it's a very strange bond because I don't trust any of them for shit lol. But I support each of their personal journeys and I hope that they all get the chance to stick it to whoever it is that they want to stick it to and have plenty of sex while doing it. Being romanceless and sexless sucks. You can't blame them for wanting to lash out at the world.

It's just not a very compelling story on the blue pill side. You have Chad, who just naturally has been sexed up all his life, and he's the good guy. Nothing bad ever happens to him, he had no Hero's Journey, he's just a man slut, but he's supposed to be a good guy because he doesn't have to use manipulative tactics to get in women's pants. Cmon, where's the support for the underdog? (kind of joking kind of not lol)

Another thing is that I was about to say the same for you except in the opposite direction. You assume TRPers come fresh out the box bad guy and that the guys who are naturals are automatically good guys.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Can you really be an abuser with no one to abuse?

Abuse only happens in the context of hetero relationships? I don't think so. Abusers will always find someone to abuse.

Being romanceless and sexless sucks. You can't blame them for wanting to lash out at the world.

If everyone who had a grievance lashed out at the world, we'd be in pretty bad shape. A lot of things suck. Being homeless sucks. Being poor and not being able to feed your family sucks. Being terminally ill sucks. Being in debt sucks. Do these people get a free pass to lash out?

blue pill side

Come on. There is no such thing.

Nothing bad ever happens to him

Here's why people lose empathy. Grown men walking around believing that nothing bad happens to attractive men because they're attractive. Even if you mean nothing bad in the context of their dealings with women (which I don't think you do), I can point you in the direction of a few dozen attractive men I know who can set you straight.

You assume TRPers come fresh out the box bad guy and that the guys who are naturals are automatically good guys.

No I don't. I judge people based on what they say and what they do. If you lack empathy for others while complaining that no one has empathy for you, if you think being celibate justifies misogyny, if you pretend the problem is always women so that you never have to work on yourself because "it's hopeless," if you constantly portray yourself as the hero "nice guy" and everyone else as the villain, don't be surprised if people see through it and call you on it.

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Do these people get a free pass to lash out?

Being homeless sucks.

Nobody gives a fuck about them so I can understand why they would.

Being poor and not being able to feed your family sucks.

Doing that might be a detriment to your family, so I don't know if that's the MO of a person who would lash out.

Being terminally ill sucks

Depending on the extent of the illness, they may not have the physical capacity to lash out. There's also no one to lash out towards. It's just an illness. No oppressor in that story.

Being in debt sucks.

Maybe this person would lash out, but they'd have to be some backwards idiot if they felt completely justified in doing it. They're the ones that owe the other something.

nothing bad happens to attractive men because they're attractive.

Everything bad that has ever happened to me except for girl related problems I knew how to solve and I did. If I was uber Chad that would take away the one issue that is the bane of my fucking existence. Every other one of my problems pales in comparison. Yeah, I know, some attractive men have the problem of women only wanting to have sex with them and nothing more. Oh boo hoo

if you think being celibate justifies misogyny

It justifies apathy, which is exactly what you're getting from women.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like you’re young (am I wrong?) and have lived a pretty easy, privileged life then. Hope for your sake it stays that way but statstically it probably won’t.

Meanwhile Chad, along with most humans walking the planet, have all kinds of problems that don’t include living in a state of perpetual angry victimhood because they can’t date above their league.

girl related problems

Would you be so kind as to share what these problems are?

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like you’re young (am I wrong?) and have lived a pretty easy, privileged life then. Hope for your sake it stays that way but statstically it probably won’t.

Yeah I'm 20 and I've got a lot of things going for me and feel confident that things will go my way in one avenue or another. I'm ready to face failure in my endeavors, but I have multiple in mind and figure that one has to stick.

Meanwhile Chad, along with most humans walking the planet, have all kinds of problems that don’t include living in a state of perpetual angry victimhood because they can’t date above their league.

It's not really perpetual. It's just the narrative for that particular part of my life. I don't think I'm trying to date out of my league. I lift weights, and I am happy with where I am at, but I want to keep improving. My chest sticks out beyond my stomach and my abs are slightly visible, so I think my issue with women is largely a mental thing. I'm definitely not the most buff guy at the gym, but I've seen people in worse shape with women I want.

Would you be so kind as to share what these problems are?

Hope you don't mind the length, I can summarize it for you if you want.

Well, it all started with Alyssa. I met her my freshman year of high school. She approached me and always had a real cuddly and seductive vibe which made me become obsessed with her. She was a bit chubby, but she wore clothing that accentuated her features and she did her makeup very well. I had this idealistic image in my head of Alyssa that I worshiped. I wanted to be with her forever. I had always been shy, but finally, at the end of my sophomore year of high school, I asked her to be my girlfriend. She said we'd try it out, since we only had 2 weeks of school left. The first day was nice. Alyssa came over to me and played with my hair as she always did, but this time she was mine. We kissed once; she was my first. Most of the rest of that two weeks was pure confusion. To end the relationship, she ghosted me. She meant so much to me but it seemed I meant almost nothing to her.

I kept texting her, trying to get her back until the school year started and another guy, her new boyfriend, texted me telling me to stop. I refused to stop and he challenged me to a fight that I accepted. I showed up to the place that he had specified, but he pussied out. I went to confront both of them in the lunch room and I asked him why he didn't show up to the fight and he said: "You aren't worth my time." I sat there for the rest of the lunch period in protest, and the guy was throwing random paper balls at me, but for a while, me and Alyssa locked eyes. She had a rather devious look on her face. When we got up to leave I stood right next to the guy. He walked with Alyssa into the hallway and while we started to walk in different directions I yelled "You can't do shit!" Alyssa seemed to be trying to convince him to go kick my ass at this point, but he kept walking. I think I made them break up, and she texted me. I fucked it up again by being my clingy self, but I was shocked at the implications of what happened. I didn't like what it seemed Alyssa liked me for.

I was mainly focused on the fact that I lost Alyssa, someone I cherished and, you might think this is petty, had an existential crisis over the temporary nature of all things. I realized that we're all going to die some day, and I'll lose everything I ever cared about, just like I lost Alyssa, which was the one thing I cared about most.

I never had sex with Alyssa. I lost my virginity at 19 just before my 20th birthday to an escort because I was tired of trying to figure out what it takes to get laid. I got laid by a really fat chick, another escort, and another fat chick. Now I'm on a dry spell again. A constant lesson I've had from my experience is that not every bad deed is punished. That in combination with other existential thoughts led me to the amoral philosophical position. I'm still completely stumped as to what I should do to get laid consistently, but slowly I've become less inhibited, which is a reward in itself.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Getting your heart broken sucks (sorry) but literally everyone has it happen to them at least once, usually more than once. Yes even Chad. In fact having your heart broken is a rite of passage for humans -- it teaches you not lose sight of yourself, to set boundaries and that you will get over it and survive. If TRPs think they're unique in experiencing heartbreak they're beyond deluded.

'm still completely stumped as to what I should do to get laid consistently

So the advice you get from RP doesn't help?

[–]Entropy-7Old Goat9 points10 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Red Pill is very much about owning your shit. There is only a narrow sliver who would advocate knocking up a woman and making a runner.

Statistics show that 70% to 90% of divorces are women wanting out of the for-life vow they made.

And the examples are legion of baby mamas making really bad choices regarding the men they allow to impregnate them.

RP advises to get off the booze and get into the gym.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“70-90% of women want out of the for-life vow that they made”

Do those studies have any data indicating whether or not it’s the woman’s fault that the marriage collapsed?

Studies probably would show that 100% of people who buy timeshares want to get rid of the timeshare - the Timeshare company isn’t the one who wants to end the contract. If you bought something expecting one thing, and that one thing overtime turns out to be something else, you’re not wrong to want to get rid of it.

To be clear - I’m not saying that it’s all men’s fault that marriages end, either, but I do believe that a combination of a masculinity crisis and men not dating women/courting women years into a relationship the same way they did when they first started hanging out are probably the biggest contributors to marriages failing.

[–]lovelybethanie12 points13 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

I asked for a divorce from my ex husband, not because I wanted to fuck around or wanted out for fun (I stayed 2 years longer than I should have), but because my ex husband was a mentally and emotionally abusive person who threatened to kill my family if I left. I got out when I felt it was safe and only after I’d endured severe depression and anxiety due to the way he treated me. So your assumptions on the statistics of why women leave are just that, assumptions, except you look like an ass and no one else does.

[–]EminemLovesGrapesSpongebob3 points4 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Anecdotal evidence does not rule out statistics.

Just because you were one of the ones who had a good reason doesn't mean we should assume they all did.

There's a reason why RP says "Don't marry".

I personally don't care who's fault it is, man or woman. The only thing I care about is the risk. And there's simply no reason in this day and age to take it. Not worth it.

My thought process is "7/10 marriages go bust? And the man is most of the time royally fucked(Brendan Fraser)? NOPE"

Maybe that's the purple approach though.

[–]lovelybethanie3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

And feminism, TRUE feminism, fights to stop the men who are being screwed in divorces. It didn’t happen that way with me, though, my ex husband screwed me over big time, because I wanted to get out of the situation I was in. Like, royally fucked me over.

I had nothing, and started over completely, where as he moved in his girlfriend, now wife, two weeks after I moved out.

Though I didn’t want anything from him, I didn’t want to be in so much debt because of him either.

I doesn’t happen like you think, always, but I do see women trying to screw the men over, and most of the time, it isn’t deserved. I want to live in a world where no one gets fucked over if they don’t deserve it. I don’t see the point in blaming women for the failing of marriages, though, like op pointed out.

I also don’t see the point in blaming men for the failing of marriages either. It’s a case by case basis, in this case, with me, I tried. I asked for therapy, I asked him to change, I asked for help, he didn’t take any of it, and I couldn’t stay, he is the one at fault for our marriage failing.

And anyone who is at fault, should be blamed, not women for choosing the wrong person.

[–]BirdManBrrrr5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

And feminism, TRUE feminism, fights to stop the men who are being screwed in divorces.

Everyone who identifies as a feminist trots out the "true feminism" or "that's not real feminism" when talking about any random topic to which they disagree with.

Let's be honest, no brand of feminism gives a hoot about men's rights, up to and including rights and fairness in the courts. Right now, women and mothers in general have the upper hand in divorce proceedings on average. No reason to try and sell any of us there is some grand push by feminists to change that because it doesn't exist.

[–]lovelybethanie3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

“No brand of feminism gives a hoot about men’s rights” except true feminism does. I fight everyday to prove that men can be raped, men can cry without being called a “sissy”, men can wear make up or a dress or be feminine if they want. I fucking fight for men’s rights, just as much as I do women’s.

So as I plainly stated before, TRUE feminism cares, they do. Third wave feminism does not.

[–]BirdManBrrrr0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Which one is true? First, second, third, or fourth wave? Intersectional? TERF? Marxist? Radfem? liberal? Eco? Tumblr? #maletears? #killallmen?

What makes yours the TRUE feminism?

[–]lovelybethanie1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is technically no fourth wave, and terfs aren’t feminists, neither are radfems(they’re in the third wave of feminism) Not all liberals are feminists, tumblr is a mix of 2nd and 3rd wave feminism.

First wave was the feminist in 1918 getting our right to vote, it’s evolved over time, and unfortunately some of those who consider themselves feminists, now, are third wave who are not actual feminists, they’re misandrists.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

men can cry without being called a “sissy”, men can wear make up or a dress or be feminine if they want.

That's cool and all, but how many men need any of these things? You're really into "men's rights", as long as they are rights to be like women. Yeah! I fight for the rights of the .01% of men who want to dress like women! Beat that!

How about you advocate for the rights most men actually need? That would make you a "true feminist" by the "believes in equal rights" definition.

None of your pussy hat marches will make it socially acceptable for me to wear a skirt. If I really want to wear women's clothing, I have to accept that I won't be accepted. Acceptance will come, with or without feminist activism.

[–]lovelybethanie1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You literally didn’t read anything of what I said, dude.

I said that I’m for equality for everyone. You say that I’m only doing it so men can be like women, or some type of bullshit, but I want equality, period. Women can be president if they want, men can be a stay at home dad. Women can wear dress pants or a suit (already acceptable because society, and I assume you, has deemed it okay for women to be like men, as long as men aren’t like women) and a man can wear a dress or make up. Men can fucking cry about a bad day if they want. Women can be sexually active and sexually promiscuous if they want. Women get raped. Men get raped. I want the stigma of men “don’t get raped” to disappear, because they do.

So please, tell me what rights you guys actually need? Cause I see you getting jobs over women, walking freely at night not afraid a woman is going to attack you, rape you, and murder you, you’re not scare for your life in a room full of women (most men think they’re bad ass for it), so please, do go on and tell me exactly what you’re needing? Because last I knew, I’m actually fighting for your right to be feminine, because there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a woman, or having a feminine side as a male.

Men who cry, are sexy. Men who push their emotions to the side and wait for it to boil, then have an anger outburst (not controlling their emotions like they blame women for not doing) is not sexy.

Next.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

i've removed your comment since the first line is a personal attack against another user. please edit it out, and your comment will be reapproved.

[–]lovelybethanie0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Fixed it.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's too bad I missed your original comment. The nature of the personal attack would give me insight into where you are coming from, and why you seem to hate masculinity.

You say that I’m only doing it so men can be like women, or some type of bullshit, but I want equality, period.

I didn't assume your reasons for fighting for men to be able to cry about trivial things and to wear skirts; I just pointed out that the things you want for us are not things we need. Feminists always seem to think that men don't cry over things that women do because of the stereotype of the manly man. You have it backwards. The stereotype arose from the simple fact that men show emotions differently than women. We don't want to cry over little things. We're fine. We can't be bawling when there's a mammoth to kill, or raiders to fight.

So please, tell me what rights you guys actually need? Cause I see you getting jobs over women, walking freely at night not afraid a woman is going to attack you, rape you, and murder you, you’re not scare for your life in a room full of women

Men don't get jobs over women, and haven't for decades, so what you see is not reality. The reality is, less-qualified women are getting hired over more-qualified men, in fields where women are determined to be underrepresented. Not sanitation engineers, but every other kind.

Walking freely at night is a right everyone has (except prisoners, and men are much more likely to be sent to prison than women when convicted of the same crime). You seem to be demanding a right to feeeeeel safe, and no power outside of yourself can make that happen. Nor would I want the government, or anyone else, to have that power over everyone. You are more likely to be hit by a car walking at night than to be raped and/or murdered. You can choose to let irrational fears of unlikely horrors rule your life, or not. Are you really scared for your life in a room full of men? That's not normal. You should stop reading second-wave feminists.

As to what rights we need, it would be cool if MGM was treated like FGM. It would be nice to not have that sentencing disparity I mentioned. Black men being sentenced to longer prison terms is a civil rights issue, but men being sentenced to longer terms than women is just fine, because patriarchy.

Equal parenting choices for men is a big one. If a woman is pregnant and wants the baby, she can raise it on her own without ever telling the father that he has a child. She can then change her mind, and put him on the hook for years of back child support. She can deny visitation rights all she wants, and still get those checks. If he doesn't pay, the government pays her, and he has to pay the government back.

A pregnant woman who doesn't want a child can abort without informing the potential father, or against his explicit wishes. She can give the kid up for adoption, or just drop it at any safe haven like a fire ststion, no questions asked. She probably won't be convicted if she just chucks the kid in a dumpster to die, because society is so sympathetic to women.

These are examples of actual legal inequality between the sexes, that feminism never addresses, except to fight for continued inequality.

Next.

[–]EminemLovesGrapesSpongebob2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I totally agree.

I know the majority of men and women are egotistical and only look out for themselves. I'm not blaming you or any gender. Just the way things are.

There's always bound to be an inherit bias both on male focussed groups ie. asktrp,trp,askmen,reddit in general. And female focussed groups; twitter,tumblr,askwomen(awful place),askwomenadvice(great place). There's always going to be a minority or majority that'll blame either gender.

I don't think expecting redpill to be totally centred on certain issues is realistic. Of fucking course the community with like 90% men has people who say "women's fault". Redpill says "don't marry because..." and mentions all the things that tend to screw men over, and that we stand more to lose. And that makes it biased, yes.

Redpill just harbours a lot of men like you, who got royally fucked over and are now on lifetime alimony while their wife is dating a chump and using it to buy luxury items instead of toys. And deadbedrooms or even purplepill here will harbour women like you, who got royally fucked over too.

Being a true feminist (even I could consider myself one) doesn't help anything when they're not the ones that are getting the limelight. When it's the ridiculous "mainsplaining/spreading" and all that bullshit getting attention instead of the actual issues.

So I don't blame any guy for not believing that feminism is on their side.

Again, I totally agree, we should. But the way it "should be" does not change the way it is right now.

[–]lovelybethanie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m a woman, not a man, first off. I agreed with everything you said, up until that point.

Women who dislike men for being male are not feminists. They’re misandrists.

Now, social issues that get the limelight should be more of the equality issues, on both sides, ie: men can get raped, men can cry, women can be in power, women are not the only gender too emotional. Things like this need to be addressed, I see too often, from everyone, blaming the other group and not trying to fix either group.

That is what true feminism is.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just because you were one of the ones who had a good reason doesn't mean we should assume they all did.

Where did she say this?

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Statistics show that 70% to 90% of divorces are women wanting out of the for-life vow they made.

But it’s not possible she wants out because the husband is abusive, an addict, not living up to the vow HE made, etc?

[–]efficientelf[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Statistics show that 70% to 90% of divorces are women wanting out of the for-life vow they made

Who puts the paperwork in progress tells you nothing about who fucked up. In cases of when one spouse is an alcoholic who do you think files? The drunk? Or the person bothered by the drunk? Do you know any abusers who seek divorce, or do the victims seek divorce? Do the cheaters bother to fill out the tiny boxes? Or the cheated spouse?

bad choices regarding the men they allow to impregnate

hence I wrote redpill like the male passivity (he was "allowed", he doesn't think).

[–]mrcs84usnFatty Fat Neck Beard4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

When you look at same-sex couples, women are more than twice as likely to divorce than men. Men seem to be better at holding it together.

Ontop of that, there's still a significant amount of bias in the courts. Most women don't have a fear of losing their kids along with half of their assets in a divorce. The term "cheaper to keep her" didn't come from nowhere.

[–]efficientelf[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

ok, this stat says something, although some correlations might be at play here as well, like the article mentions lesbian couples commit sooner (more women than men like a wedding for the sake of it)

Most women don't have a fear of losing their kids

In my country most fathers don't bother apply for custody after divorce, when corrected for the number of applications, it was close to 50%. I recognize that this doesn't necessarily have to be caused by indifference towards the kids, but maybe hopelessness to get it. But still, if you don't even apply no one's gonna give you custody.

along with half of their assets in a divorce

84% of divorcees don't even pay child support here. Let alone lose any assets. Still women file in 68.4% of cases, so they're not doing it for the money

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS9 points10 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

You're getting it wrong (and it's not as if that part hasn't been explained here bazillions of times): When dealing with a woman, the man's part in the whole quagmire she's in doesn't concern us, only hers.

If a woman asked me a similar but gender-flipped question, of course she'd also get an appropriate answer.

That said: if the girl from that thread would have entered that relationship on her own accord despite all warnings (from reddit or otherwise) and would have replicated the situation of single baby mom #1 and single baby mom #2, of course she would be to blame for that and therefore also undatable. It doesn't matter that the babby daddy is also an idiot in that regard - in fact, I dare to say that this would make my judgment of her datability even less charitable because the writing was on the wall and she still choose to go through with it.

Does this make sense?

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the man's part in the whole quagmire she's in doesn't concern us, only hers.

And that is where TRP fails.

[–]SmeggingRightGot flair? Hell yeah!0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Does this make sense?

None.

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The men on TRP aren't saying: "YAY we can be fathers who abandon their kids!" They're saying: "Damn, bitches be crazy for choosing these ASSHOLES over me." The man is still an asshole for abandoning his child, but they're acknowledging that there's something more attractive about him to the woman.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Okay, I'll try it again:

A woman who is looking for a partner evaluates the shortcomings of the guy, the shortcomings of his exes are secondary, since it's not them she wants to date.

A man who is looking for a partner evaluates the shortcomings of the girl, the shortcomings of her exes are secondary, since it's not them he wants to date.

In other words: her ex might have been the biggest asshole on the planet, the fact that she let him impregnate her is on her. The same way the girl in the thread I linked should stay clear of the guy she's fancying - even *if* his two baby mommies were the greatest cunts on the planet (and it's a big *if*), that he managed to make this mistake not once, but twice is a blood-red flag.

Still too complicated?

[–]SmeggingRightGot flair? Hell yeah!0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

A woman who is looking for a partner evaluates the shortcomings of the guy, the shortcomings of his exes are secondary, since it's not them she wants to date.

A man who is looking for a partner evaluates the shortcomings of the girl, the shortcomings of her exes are secondary, since it's not them he wants to date.

Yeah fair enough. Make sense.

In other words: her ex might have been the biggest asshole on the planet, the fact that she let him impregnate her is on her.

It is on her if she knew he was the world's biggest asshole beforehand, for sure.

It's just that when trpers get with women who are assholes, it always seems to be a case of AWALT rather than the guy making idiot choices. Which ties in with what the OP is saying. No accountability for men. All accountability for women.

If I get with Sally Scissorhands down the road, knowing she's a maniac, and then I find out she's put holes in my condoms and I dump her, only to have her become a crazed pregnant ex-girlfriend who's stalking me - I could go and piss in trp and claim it was a case of AWALT, and I'll instantly find affirmation.

[–]sketch1620000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's just that when trpers get with women who are assholes, it always seems to be a case of AWALT rather than the guy making idiot choices. Which ties in with what the OP is saying. No accountability for men. All accountability for women.

AWALT sounds like the opposite of "no accountability for men" when looked at from the audience's perspective though. It's like "all guns are loaded." Men are ALWAYS held accountable because he should know better. AWALT so that's always on the man if he doesn't protect himself.

[–]the_calibre_cat13 points14 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

I'd pay hard money to see a woman actually admit fault in a relationship. I've done it plenty of times, because I accept that I am an imperfect being striving to be a better being.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London4 points5 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Depends who they are talking to

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (21 children) | Copy Link

Sure. Girlfriends, where they can trust their own failures will be kept in a top-secret SCIF? Sure. The actual, other person that they ostensibly "love?" lol

[–]decoy88Black Male in London2 points3 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

then you are dealing with immature women. a woman that can't admit fault shouldn't be in a relationship.

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

I will stop short of saying AWALT, but...

...there's a reason jokes like, "If a man is alone in the woods speaks and his wife cannot hear him, is he still wrong?" exist and are gleefully socially tolerated. It's strange that in the feminist quest to abolish fun, clearly sexist utterances/themes such as that aren't even touched.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London6 points7 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

You think all women around you are immature? You have never encountered a woman that's apologised for their actions? Are you good at apologising yourself?

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

You think all women around you are immature?

I have met one woman, who I dated, who was self-aware and reflective enough to apologize when she was in the wrong. She actually cared enough about me to do that, and to me, that is the definition of respect. We both kind of fucked up in our relationship and aren't together anymore, a kind of great failing in my book - because I see and interact with women pretty regularly now, and yeah. The vast majority of them will selectively remember events.

Are you good at apologising yourself?

Probably to a fault, in fact.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

I have met several women, who are mature. As I get older (mid-20s) I seem to find more and more women like this.

Probably to a fault, in fact.

Are you one of those apologise for nothing types? ugh, that can be off-putting...or maybe attractive to women who believe they are always right and like their ego stroked.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

I have met several women, who are mature. As I get older (mid-20s) I seem to find more and more women like this.

I find older women who are more like this, but the sayings apply to them, too. Again, there's a reason those jokes exist - and one of the big reasons is because men have done the math. Whether or not we're actually wrong is immaterial - dealing with a woman's bullshit trying to prove ourselves correct is orders of magnitude more costly than just admitting wrongdoing and moving on.

Are you one of those apologise for nothing types? ugh, that can be off-putting...

I suppose I am seen that way, because I tend to say "I'm sorry" whenever someone expresses a bad thing that happened to them. They always take it as though I'm apologizing to them, when I'm really just truncating "I'm sorry that the thing happened to you."

I doubt it's attractive at all, and I seem to have gotten into the habit of verbalizing something that is just... not culturally understood where I am.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Can you stop using a joke like its a source? lol there's jokes about dumb shit all the time. Don't take lessons on human behaviour from jokes like that.

If a woman is too immature, you next her. Except many guys don't do this and get upset with the misery they chose. then they make jokes like this as if everyone is as foolish as them.

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I have met several women, who are mature. As I get older (mid-20s) I seem to find more and more women like this.

BECAUSE THEY'RE APPROACHING THE WALL. REEEEEEEEEE

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah it's just regular old maturing as you get older.

[–]DareyFathom4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Both genders can make poor decisions in partner selection by ignoring clear red flags and then complain about the predictably negative outcomes after.

[–]DrippyskippyMonk2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this has more to do with personal character and less about what pill you associate yourself with. A lot of people try to find ways to remove their agency from negative situations to pretend that they are a victim of circumstance. Instead of taking responsibility for playing a part in the consequences of bad decisions these people (people of poor character) generally blame others.

[–]cholomite2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because we all know that if these men didn't have these issues, the women wouldn't want them. It's the bad boy thing, most women know what they are getting into. If these guys were reliable and dependable providers, the women they are with probably wouldn't want them.

It's the unpredictability, aggression and passion of the drunk that draws the women to him. It's the narcissism of the man who abandons his children that makes women interested in him.

Women choose these men before the men select them. Women decide they are worthy of them, and they give themselves to them. A lot of women just happen to be attracted to traits that are counter productive to modern society. Guys just like big tits and a decent ass, a pretty face and nice personality are just icing on the cake. Women are drawn to personality traits that are often negative. That's been known for awhile and that's why men are seen as having "less agency" in relationships. The women choose them, the men are just being themselves and the women happen to be attracted to them, but like I said, if the men take agency and correct their issues, the women probably wouldn't want them anymore.

[–]Son_of_Tzu3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP isn't a couple therapy advisor, as such the focus is given on unfullfilled men and how they can improve their lives and move forward towards happiness.

Are the men in need of guidance upstanding members of society ? Probably not, else they would not need guidance in the first place.

And what TRP tells them is that their choices led them to their miserable situation.

TRP is about owning your choices, steering the wheel of life and making decisions based on informed opinions so as to produce results.

And for that, these men have to be willing to change. Not for women, but for themselves.

Therefore i fail to see how TRP gives no agency to men, as they make it clear their unhappiness is 100% their fault. This is further illustrated by the lack of success with women being their underwhelming understanding of their nature, expectations and needs...

Edit : if you are referring to subs such as /r/wherearethegoodmen then it is self explanatory Red Pill guys assess the situation by projecting as the possible next partner of the single mom and find her incompatible with their own journey to happiness.

Is it male solipsism ? No doubt. But does it make their assessment any less real ?

How is the baby father going to improve their lives ? Actually he's more likely to be a pain. But he comes along the single mother, so as to lessen her value... Etc etc.

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes17 points18 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Women never own their mistakes. They reframe them or argue the situation was out of their control. RP men call them out on their bullshit.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I knew an accountant that said she cheated with some dude in Cancun because she didn't know how to break up with her long time boyfriend. Like, what?! No, you done fucked up and now you are retroactively rationalizing a way where it was a Love Eat Pray journey so you don't feel absolutely shitty about yourself. Oi.

[–]Offhisgame7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So rp men own up to the fact they suck in bed? Or the women left them cause theyre losers? Or cheated because they dint listen? Or are old and unhappy on internet forums cause they make shit choices?

I dont see that!

[–]BirdManBrrrr2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do, as do many others.

"You did x therefore I had no choice but to do (insert shitty thing here)! It's all your fault!"

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If they don't, they are doing it wrong. The whole point of red pill is to say "She left you because you are a loser", or "she left you because you suck in bed." You can whine all day about how she is a shitty person, but it won't change her or any other woman.

You can only change yourself to take advantage of traits you observe women to have. Owning up to your own failings would be step one, if RP was a twelve-step program. Failing this bit of introspection is a one-way ticket to r/Braincells.

[–]nemma8830/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

RP Theory lists women as the choosers, and would be naturally choosing based on their needs for their offspring, so majority responsibility for that choice would be on the woman.

It's not like our choice is between a good hunter or bad hunter these days though, people are far more complicated and so many outside influences, we live a lot longer and can change a lot easier. People are not as predictable as that.

I think in some ways it's reflective of women staying too long with men who are bad for them because they want to change them or go back to a time when they were not so assholerish.

[–]Gravel_RoadsJust a Pill5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Kinda funny how they blame women for staying in/entering relationships with poor partners, but then also criticize them for getting divorced.

[–]efficientelf[S] 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

based on their needs for their offspring,

the offspring is just as much the fathers, does he not choose a mother for them?

Theory lists women as the choosers

I understand this is their theory, I don't see any justification for it?

[–]nemma8830/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the offspring is just as much the fathers, does he not choose a mother for them? I understand this is their theory, I don't see any justification for it?

To RP end that rests on specific evolutionary theories no, the father is not choosy, at least not in the same way. Men spread there seed indiscriminately. It's not in short supply, impregnating multiple women would not be of detriment to him. If one is crazy? Doesn't matter, have other women mothering offspring.

Personally I don't know about that theory being sound. Investment in children from the father seems important considering human history, but as we don't have time machines we can not say for certain.

[–]AllRealsAndNoFeelsRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men aren't choosing mothers. We're choosing women to have sex with. For the majority of men, children are an unwanted byproduct of sex. Kids aren't the goal, and they aren't part of the plan. If men were responsible for choosing the fate of the child, we'd choose abortion at an astonishing rate. But alas, men don't get to decide what a woman does with her body. Therefore, the impetus of action falls squarely on women's shoulders.

It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. The fact remains that you stand to lose the most, and you're the only one who can determine whether or not the kid gets born, and under which circumstances the kid is born. That means that the blame lies entirely with you. You're choosing the baby, so you're responsible for it. You're responsible for ensuring that the kid has a good life and a father--because, again, we aren't the ones who are choosing life. We're only choosing which pussy to plow.

If I walk away from the relationship, you have a kid. If you walk away from the relationship, you have a kid. Regardless of who leaves the relationship, you're still stuck with a kid. It's all on you.

[–]efficientelf[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Kids aren't the goal

update your stats. I can share one from my country stat

Men might not want oops kids when they're 20, but the aggregate it quite similar compared to women

If I walk away from the relationship, you have a kid. If you walk away from the relationship, you have a kid.

you pay for a kid you don't want, she has a kid she apparently grew fond of (she could abort)

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

the offspring is just as much the fathers, does he not choose a mother for them?

Yes, but unlike when she chooses he gets rejected by the women chooses, a whole hell of a lot. Women are guaranteed to get hit on - the problem is she finds at least 95% of her suitors to be unattractive.

[–]efficientelf[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You can spread yourself as thin as you wish, your responsibilities towards any conceived kids are not changeable due to your dating choices

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Now that much is true.

[–]jkonradRP is for beginners1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What, do you think RP is some holy book of rights and wrongs? As a general rule denying everything and always blaming someone else isn't a horrible tactic if you can pull it off. Especially as it pertains to sexual strategy--which TRP just happens to be--where it can help you look more confident and successful. And blameless I suppose. Anyways, the proper way to judge something in TRP is by the sex standard: does this help me sex more and better.

[–]Alpha_Omega_Sigma1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is actually quite simple - in the cases you've mentioned, the male isn't a red pill man. If you abandon your child, that's on you. At the same time, if a woman gets knocked up from a randomly hookup, who is unemployed, has alcohol/drug issues, and is known to be a sleeze, well, that's on her.

You will never see an actual red pill man (so this excludes everyone who first found the subreddit two weeks ago and is in full on whining mode) turn away from his own mistakes.

Sometimes is his fault. Sometimes it's hers. But if a women is involved with a very low value, shitty guy, that's on her, just like if a guy gets caught by a gold digger, that's on him

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think you're confusing red pill with incel

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I wrote I don't know if it's 'official', only that it appears there in comments

[–]EminemLovesGrapesSpongebob2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

After the r/incel sub got bommed I wouldn't be surprised those poor suckers would come to TRP instead

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But how do they agree this with the other 'theory' that men are the responsible gender while women aren't?

Where's the contradiction? Among all the men around, women consistently prefer the least responsible; how does it disprove that women are less responsible than men? "Men are more responsible" doesn't translate into "irresponsible men don't exist".

Problems that are caused by men - from criminality to war - are usually solved by men. There's very few areas in which women are either expected or forced to clean the shit after men. I've brought this up already earlier, but my dive into the topic of pathogen research demonstrated that men's ingenuity in medicine saved roughly 5 times more lives than men's violence took in crime and war. Not to mention double-purpose inventions and discoveries: chemotherapy effect was discovered on military chemical weapons of mass destruction.

Maybe none of this is the case, but considering that psychologists run like Hell from studying sexual dimorphism honestly, and that men are apparently doing just wonderfully well in every area except, presumably, relationships and family life....... there's enough material to suspect that there might be other factor at play.

Sorry, but girls don't get to screech "equality" for two and a half centuries, and then go "lol men want to be treated like children" when their fair share of family burdens and responsibilities is rightfully assigned to them.

[–]Nu_Guy1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Some of what you see on the TRP sub is ranting and emotional venting.

Any logical person can look at your 3 examples and see how it could have been the man's fault also.

I think looking at it from a TRP mindset is that women seem to choose guys who are more prone to that stuff, over say the nerdy guy who idolizes them and has less of a chance to leave them.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“Anger phase”

[–]WhatIsTheMeaningHere0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. TRP acknowledges that the guy is an asshole, but the thing that's surprising is that the woman CHOSE him over the beta guy.

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a common fallacy I see within many ideologies: deterministic factors are believed to exist and produce unfortunate circumstances for members of their ingroups, but due to being uninitiated to other lifeworlds people fail to recognize the legitimacy of how deterministic factors produce similar circumstances for outgroups.

It's not uncommon to see female scholars grant agency to the men who reproduce misogyny while upholding that women are victims of circumstance, despite the fact that the same deterministic universe that produces the circumstances for one gender obviously dictates the circumstances for the other, too. The same can be observed in discussions about race, political leanings, and class.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP has 250k+ subscribers and the people making comments there range from guys who pretty consistent with sidebar material to all kinds of anger phase guys who just got dumped, weird incels, ultraconservative tradcons, and who knows what else.

if you're going ask "why do RPers say _____" and it's not something that's fairly well established as part of the core RP ideas, you really need to give us some actual examples or citations. maybe it is part of RP doctrine, or maybe there's some context that will help explain exactly why "the woman chose wrong"

or maybe it's just some angry guy ranting because his ex-wife cheated on him.

but you don't really care do you? because this isn't a good faith question, it's just more of the same old BP strawmanning and tu quoque bullshit in an attempt to attack RP.

[–]Eastuss 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

As mentioned, it's a counter argument to the popular/patriarchy/feminist/sjw idea that men and society are at fault and responsible for every female issues. If you don't see the bigger picture you surely won't understand that.

It's a lot funny, because, feminist fight against patriarchy and toxic masculinity, that enforce the idea that women have no autonomy and men are responsible for everything, and then push on other ideas about men being responsible for everything anyway and women being poor victims...

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

Those:

father abandons child, marriage fell apart, father's an alcoholic

are not "female issues".

[–]Eastuss 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Are you assuming a marriage falling apart is the husband being at fault? Are you assuming that a father leaving the pregnant mother who decided to keep the unwanted baby is the partner being at fault? 2/3 of the examples you gave are you just putting all responsibilities on men somehow....

[–]efficientelf[S] -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

assuming a marriage falling apart is the husband being at fault?

it's half/half unless someone fucked up

Are you assuming that a father leaving the pregnant mother who decided to keep the unwanted baby is the partner being at fault?

He's at fault of his child not having a dad. It's 100% his decision

[–]Eastuss 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

He's at fault of his child not having a dad. It's 100% his decision

But it's her decision to keep it while knowing he didn't want it.

[–]efficientelf[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lets say a man wants a kid, the woman doesn't. They have an oopsie and he's the one ho can decide whether to abort or not (for some reason), he decides against abortion, even though she doesn't want a kid. So the kid is born, the woman leaves. Who is at fault of the kid not having a mother?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

If you rescind your agreement to abort an unplanned pregnancy then you are responsible for the childs quality of life, there's no way you can rationalize it to be anyone elses fault but your own.

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lets say a man wants a kid, the woman doesn't. They have an oopsie and he's the one ho can decide whether to abort or not (for some reason), he decides against abortion, even though she doesn't want a kid. So the kid is born, the woman leaves. Who is at fault of the kid not having a mother?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

unless it is illegal to abort where you live, the woman decides if the child comes into the world. women and men have fought for the right to choose to abort, stop shitting on it by trying to kick the can down the road.

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

that was a thought experiment, a parent is at fault for not being a parent, no matter what his/her relation to the other parent is.

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you are responsible for the childs quality of life

yes, you are not responsible for the other parent not parenting. A paren't responsibility is towards the child directly

[–]SilentLurker6661 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I don't know if it's in their "bible" or if it's just the go to response of some individuals there, but anyway why is this so popular:

Father abandons child? Woman chose wrong

Marriage fell apart? Woman chose wrong

Father's an alcoholic? Woman chose wrong

It's simple: We don't think of men as a collective and is not liable to share the sins of those that happened to share our gender. As individual they probably didn't abandon any children or a raging alcoholic and therefore isn't guilty by association.

The problem of BP and leftist/feminist in general is that for every example example that you've listed, you want all men to pay: Failed marriage and abandoned chidren? alimony and child support for every case; abusive dad? Duluth model.

[–]efficientelf[S] 6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

child support for

it's not to assign blame, it's because the kid doesn't eat air

[–]SilentLurker6660 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

But somehow parents in one gender had to pay more then the other? Give me justification for this

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not from the US, you might have to put some more data on this sentence for me to be able to address it

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

In a two-parent income driven CS state, one parent will “pay more” if there’s a disproportion amongst the incomes. If there is not, they will not. It is not about making one gender pay more because, male, it’s about the idea that what is “best” for the child is if CS is calculated based upon what the state presumes the child would be getting had the parents not split up. In which case it is also presumed the parent with the higher income would spend more if they stayed together. That’s the policy.

Not all states follow this, but I believe most do.

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

the man usually makes more

[–]SilentLurker6660 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Again: If the male makes more, does it not mean he can afford a better quality of life? Then why does the mother get custody of the child most of the time if the court's decision is solo for the benefit of the child?

[–]poppy_bluAARP sent me a birthday card1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then why does the mother get custody of the child most of the time

the woman is usually the primary caregiver

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If his merit as a parent was having the cash, then this is what he will remain after divorce. Nothing will change for the kid. Maybe think before divorce what kind of bond you have with your kid

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In 2018, there are two types of women that men encounter ;

  • Ignorant
  • Aware

Ignorant women have it coming, in the same vein her ignorant "brother" does. Men will watch another man fuck up. Maybe a man will step in to cover for a friend, or if he's in a generous mood, a stranger, but that's generally the extent.

With women gainning their independence, men have decided to step back. The new way is to let women either fuck up and learn, or watch her ignorance come back to bite her with a vegenace.

Women with an awareness are annoying in that they put up walls to defend themselves. This drives men away as we look for women to be soft and vulnerable with us to invoke feelings of protectiveness towards them. An aware woman will protect herself and repel men with a strong desire to do the protecting.

Edit: So now, people are less willing to go out of their way to bring up others from outside their "tribe".

When we blame women for their mistakes, the intent is usually to hold the women accountable for her mistakes the way we would a man.

Tl;dr: More people are Social Darwinists now, less people are inhibited from openly analyzing another's shortcomings.

[–]WolfgangBreitweit0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

Because women are in control. Who rules the bed rules the relationship and society. Kind of easy to understand. Women choose. Read Biffauts law. Men have judgement. But is overruled by gynocentrism and therefore useless, the so called patriarchy is in reality matriarchal to the bones.

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

circular logic, you just repeated the premise of the theory I asked about.

[–]WolfgangBreitweit0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

The logic is eggs are expensive , sperm is cheap . However the strategy is to reflect this fact, leads back to itself. Live has no meaning. It is in itself a circular state. I don’t know what you are asking about.

Read Biffauts law. The female is the goalkeeper of reproduction. So she is in charge to choose. If she fails it’s her responsibility. It’s deducted from the “my body my choice” paradigm. I don’t see men being children because of it. Men are not part of the decision. Don’t get it? Men are not to be held responsible for what the female is doing with men’s sperm. That’s entirely out of men’s control.

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

then I CHOOSE to fuck Liam Hemsworth. Oh wait, that's not how it works, he has to choose me too

[–]WolfgangBreitweit0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I don’t know Liam Something. It’s not dependent on his choice for reproduction. It’s the woman’s choice. No matter if he agrees or not.

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Parental laws of every country don't share your opinion, a man's choice not to have kids ends with prevention

[–]WolfgangBreitweit1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Lol! And with ruptured condoms, stolen sperm, faked birth control. Give me a break. Parental laws are gynocentrism. She decides. Full stop.

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

> Parental laws are gynocentrism

child-centrism

[–]WolfgangBreitweit0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Children are the backup for women.

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

the backup

I don;t understand (I'm not a native English speaker). Could you rephrase if you care for me to answer?

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[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh these threads. I'd love for a woman to be able to explain the list of actions and decisions that SHE was responsible for in a break down of a marriage or fuck ups in her past relationships.

Usually is a passive aggressive 'the dude I chose was a loser, not my fault. I don't see women saying, hey yeah, sleeping with my coworker probably wasn't the best thing to do. Nagging until my husband stopped caring about me was wrong.

Each person plays a role. Nobody wants to take personal responsibility.

[–]MercedesBenzoAMGbringing percocets molly percocet back to ppd2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Each person plays a role. Nobody wants to take personal responsibility.

Preach.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This Looney Tune is either a jammerly alt or the WGTOW gates of hell have been opened. This is just a horrible thoughtless post.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

That's what women have always done.

See how annoying it is? 😂

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Okay yes I agree with you with some women, but why must we advocate that we sink to that level? Why should we become what we despise, what's the point of that? This reeks of gender revenge thinking, absolute men of everything because well women did it so let's get even with 'em, yeah!

I remember when Rush Limbaugh denounced "get even with 'em-ism" tactics by the Left. Suddenly now "get even with 'em-ism" is okay because it's us? Uh f$#k that.

Has no one here read even one quote by Nietzsche? Y'all been staring WAY too long into that abyss.

OP you deserve a mayor's parade for that topic title. It's about time that men's rights people and redpillers start talking about accepting some responsibility for male disposability. Yes it's true, mother nature and women benefit from and heavily reinforce male disposability and all the crap that comes from it, but it's on us men to STOP COMPLYING and learn how NOT TO BE A VICTIM. And maybe pay more attention to women who aren't like that, instead of broadbrushing all of womankind. We have allies out there, you know.

Anyway. Redpill men need to participate in a mindshare, learn to beat the system, get around the system, don't just sit there and cry about it.

F$#K I love the OP. I'm gonna print it out and put it on my wall.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

That was quite a bit of jibberish. I honestly stopped reading after the second paragraph

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Sorry you can't understand clear English. Well, not sorry. Your problem, not mine.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I understand English, the comment was just to fucking stupid to read.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What I wrote was flawlessly clear and quite accurate. You just have no counter argument and probably cannot understand clear English, are now just trolling.

I'm through with you now. My points stand.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As long as you like it.🙄

[–]TedescheMRA1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Finally, someone’s hit upon something TRP and feminism have in common!

[–]RMWristclutch0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are ultimately the choosers. She's the one a-okaying the guy sticking it in her.

If you hire someone and they do a shitty job, is it the worker's fault for being a shitty worker or the fault of the employer for hiring them in the first place? Same concept.

Where it flips is if the guy is the chooser, but men are relatively rarely are in that situation (mostly rich guys, super physically attractive guys etc) where women are actively pursuing them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

this thread is seriously fucked up. It is like this recent meme where liberals shoot innocent man and then look at you and say "why would conservatives do that?"

source: https://meme.xyz/uploads/posts/t/l-13022-why-would-he-kill-himself.jpg

[–]paccount112You're delusions are making me red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I dont see how anyone could argue the man had no agency. I thought it went without saying

[–]crackrocksteady7Jason tell me what you're chasing0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Father abandons child? Woman chose wrong

The fathers abandoning their children aren't the types you argue with on rebbit

Father's an alcoholic? Woman chose wrong

See above

[–]void_magic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Once they get married or have a kid they basically have a gun to their head.

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

mmmm. Are you by chance equating saying that women are not free of responsibility for those bad outcomes to saying men have none?

RP says women have influence and capacity to influence the bad outcomes, and to some particular ones stop them altogether by sacrificing and compromising a lot less than men are expected to.
This does not equate to saying men are not responsible, it is just to stress out that women are not standard victims, as it is so unanimously professed.

Your indignant post kind of serves to illustrate it, doesn't it? Those evil RP say that women are to blame for everything, even if I write the sentence with Father as the subject.

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

if I write the sentence with Father as the subject

a man that is a father has responsibilities directly due to being the child's father, not through being the mother's partner. The blaming women for men leaving children/being bad fathers comes exactly from this false premise that the father is there as the woman's partner (/ex partner) and that somehow this relationship or any changes in this relationship influence what he should be for his child.

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your indignant post kind of serves to illustrate it, doesn't it?

Once more here.
You are affirming "RP believes men have no agency", but you're illustrating with the ONE example of a broken relationship in which the man should still give a shit about the woman, and you are equating "must be a father" to "must be her partner":

  • You are saying that the man must be a father because your examples involve children;
  • You are equating to "being her partner" because you are making the focus about the woman, "the poor woman being blamed for having chosen poorly as if men have no agency";

This is the false premise.

The blaming women for men leaving children/being bad fathers comes exactly from this false premise that the father is there as the woman's partner

That one is not among the premises that lead RP to criticize women.
RP criticizes women because they try to hold men responsible for THEM being single mothers. This bit is mostly on women, rare exceptions. Women could have done proper vetting, could have done an abortion where it is legal, could have put up with their partner's shit if they wanted him to stay.
This is NOT the same as to blame women for men being absent fathers, making children "fatherless". This bit is mostly on men, rare exceptions too. RP spots the difference, RP says "fatherless children are society's curse", and there's no one shying away from holding men responsible.
This said, there is a somewhat subtle difference in the roles. Hidden on plain sight, but hidden enough for people to miss it more often than not, as you have. When RP sets itself to criticize the double standard lying in "women can change their mind" and "men must legally enforced to the role of husbands and providers to families they were cast away from by the mothers", it doesn't make the overt distinction that it would have been fitting, it doesn't say "but it is ok to enforce men and women to the father and mother role for the child (coherent with disliking abortion as most people are tradcons there), as I have done here. Its absence DOES indeed cause people that don't have the difference in in mind to point some stuff out as moronic, but it's not.

Between the gender roles we had, there was an imposition. Mothers must be wives to fathers, fathers must be husbands to mothers, both must be parents to children. But we have hunted down and murdered gender roles altogether.
As of now, it comes that, with a woman's choice of becoming a mother, it seems fitting to IMPOSE to the man becoming an all accepting and all understanding husband and provider that will forgive her trespasses because motherhood is hard. It simply isn't ok though. The choice a woman makes (a man too, but it seems we're all cool with saying "to a smaller extent) makes a mother and a father, and not husband and a a-woman-is-entitled-to-change-her-mind. Either we impose the outdated family roles to both, or to none. This is what PR denounces.

[–]lovelybethanie0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

As I stated in a few comments above, that I don’t think men are treated fairly in that area, and that things should be changed. But you clearly ignored that to continue and assume I don’t want equality for both sexes.

Women shouldn’t get less sentences than men for the same crime. If a woman chooses to keep a baby, after birth, without telling the father, she shouldn’t be allowed to just come back later and get more money in back child support. There should be probably cause, IF there is proof the father chose to walk away. Women do have to have the fathers permission to be able to put the child up for adoption. The adoption agency sends out a letter to the father to let him know he has to let them know if he wants to, now, if after 30 days he doesn’t reply, then she has the option to give the child up for adoption.

Now that you’re caught up on the way I actually think, have a good night. I don’t have time to continue and try to educate you.

Also, I called you a dbag. But apparently it’s an attack, so I changed it to dude.

[–]efficientelf[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women do have to have the fathers permission to be able to put the child up for adoption

This is the root of why you're getting it wrong. It's the child's right to have a normal home and the father's right to raise his child. Laws are built around the child's interest

[–]newName543456went volcel0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

TRP tells you that you are owed nothing from the world and you need to take action to improve your life. How exactly does this align with thesis of OP? Poorly I'd say.

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

that's not all it's build on is it? Otherwise why is every other post there about feeeemales

[–]newName543456went volcel0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

From sidebar:

The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men.

[–]efficientelf[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

discussing other people's problems isn't sexual strategy

[–]newName543456went volcel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Unless those people are relevant to it. And since most guys posting on TRP are hetero...

[–]Mattcwujust sticking up for the oppressed and voiceless women0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is such a terrible strawman.

[–]max_peenorCertified TRP Shitlord-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The bulwark of their arguments.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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