Toronto Man pledges allegiance to Incel rebellion and kills 10 people in terrorist attack

Priene · 2018-04-28T05:13:47+00:00

Minassian is not at all ugly. His looks are not why he struggled with women. He was on the spectrum and couldn't connect with people - his schoolmates said he would walk the corridors meowing like a cat. Like almost all incels, his lack of women had nothing to do with his looks and everything to do with being odd and socially stunted.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-facebook-post-connected-to-suspect-in-van-rampage-cites-incel/

I think this social ineptitude and isolation is a very real problem to young men and something we'll see causing more problems.

I don't know if it's the way they're raised or the internet or video games or what, but lots of kids aren't developing normally nowadays. It seems like with black holes like incel online communities there isn't the usual social checks in place to snip this kind of mentality in the bud.

In the past if you had weird ideas or behaviours you were forced to interact with normal people in the real world and that weirdness was diluted or stamped out pretty quick.

I had an old elementary schoolmate add me on Facebook recently. He was soooo weird as a kid, definitely on the spectrum, but his parents never pulled him out into a special needs school. He struggled through regular school with normal kids and eventually learned how to act fairly normal. He's now a pastor at his church and married to an average sort of Christian woman.

Now you have all these kids who go through a good chunk of their social development online where they can find the handful of weirdos who will confirm and amplify their weirdness and pathological worldview. They encourage each other until they've all convinced themselves that they are the normal ones and the rest of the world is messed up.

Social pressure and conformity plays a very real part in righting these weirdos and helping them fit into society. Removing that social pressure entirely and letting kids learn to socialise through fringe online subcultures is a baaaaad idea imo.

Mr_Smoogs · 2018-04-28T04:44:42+00:00

Sexually frustrated men are especially susceptible to joining radical movements. There’s a reason ISIS promised their foreign fighters a submissive sex slave war bride who they could rape at will.

As far as I’m concerned, he’s an average looking dude. I see plenty of average dudes who look like that get girlfriends. He should have just gone to the gym instead.

Maybe the fallout against this man will make its way towards TRP. Not sure how they could logically though. I recently read a evolutionary anthropology paper on female mating strategy from the university of Utah written in 1994 that talked about status, wealth and genetic fitness. Academics have been studying and theorizing about this stuff for many decades. I wonder if this will make it more mainstream or at least less taboo.

That paper would be incredibly taboo today. Feminists hate that shit.

DaphneDK42 · 2018-04-28T05:11:05+00:00

1) He was reportedly socially and mentally retarded. Had weird physical ticks and stuff. He probably weirded the girls out. Much worse than mere bad looks.

2) Now that he is a bona-fide certified mass-murderer he should expect to begin to see all the love letters streaming in from young wet girls, as is the norm for such cases. The worst case scenario is if the incel community starts to realise that being a mass-murderer is the surest and fastest way to pussy. Liberals disagree when I state this, but I don't think these kind of prisoners should be allowed to have marital or sexual relations, or communicate with girls not of their immediate family. They should not be rewarded or incentivized with the attention of infatuated young girls.

Equalina · 2018-04-28T10:02:09+00:00

Looks have nothing to do with it for this guy. He looks fine. But if he was capable of flipping out and killing 10 people, there was something wrong with his mental health. People pick up on that - often without being fully conscious of it, especially women, who are better at reading between the lines and body language in general.

Looks have, imo, not nearly as much to do with a man’s attractiveness as many TRPers insist. But getting physically fitter doesn’t just improve body condition, it improves confidence, mood and even self awareness. Those are the things that ultimately attract women. This guy could have been the epitome of a Greek statue come to life, but if he was insecure, very shy and awkward around women, it wouldn’t do squat to get him female attention (no more than an admiring glance - and then a quick excuse and exit when he couldn’t talk to them or seemed ‘off’).

It’s a harsh truth, but many women do have a ‘sixth sense’ for personality weakness in others - we often aren’t even aware we’ve picked up on it and it’s why we might find it hard to truly get across to a man what ‘creepiness’ is or when someone just seems ‘off’. I’ve talked to men who were just shy and a bit awkward but could see that was nothing to worry about - and I’ve talked to guys who made me uneasy even with confidence and easy conversation. I can’t pinpoint exactly why I can pick these things up, but I do, and many women are the same. If we feel uneasy around a guy, then it’s curtains for his chances with us. Of course, there are plenty of women who don’t pick up on this stuff...

Will incidents like this continue to happen? There’s been a trend of more and more terrorist attacks in recent decades attributed to several factors - religion, white supremacy and frustrated, mentally ill young men who just snap and want to make an impact in some way. The world seems to be at a place where many are falling through the cracks if they don’t or can’t fit in with the mainstream worldview and behaviors. This is much more likely to apply to men as they are more extreme and more prone to externalising their problems and impacting others. Until we start addressing the root causes of all this rage, alienation and sense of injustice in at-risk groups of people, these acts will continue to happen. Incel-type outbursts? I think the more these types of men don’t get the mental health help they need and the right advice to change their views and lifestyles, the more these types of violent outbursts will occur - and have a root in their sense of injustice and negative circlejerk narrative. Not giving them outlets to vent is not the answer - nor is pretending they don’t exist. They need help and guidance. TRP can help them in some ways to better themselves, but not by pushing woman blaming or solidifying the idea that they’re just unloveable and the modern ‘gynocentric’ society will never be anything but a source of antagonism and rejection for them.

There’s got to be hope and support for these guys, not denigration and dismissal. Better and more easily accessible and destigmatized mental health care is vital. But also getting a unique handle on the types of issues only men are likely to be dealing with and the different strategies and treatments needed to target them.

Million-Suns · 2018-04-28T05:14:00+00:00

Of course we will.

That goes beyond the sole sexual frustration aspect. It's a global frustration.

Modern technology + mainstream media initiate now an easier and easier propagation of a successful livelihood image.

With false but common spread narratives according to which "if you work hard enough, you are going to get the same kind of success", people who feel they don't fit in said picture are going to react out of frustration and some of them violently.

TRP PUAs admit that the "game" has become harder, due to partially an inflated sense of SMV and RMV felt by modern women. So if you combine that with what I explained earlier, sexual frustration grows exponentially.

I can't remember where I read that millennials are having far less sex than the previous generations, despite the hook-up culture.

Eliot Rodger was one manifestation of it and was a symbol for the Incels and we know how it turned out. This incident was only a few years ago.

The more sexually frustrated people the mainstream create, the higher the chances that such events occur.

exit_sandman · 2018-04-28T09:34:06+00:00

I think one of the factors that will only exacerbate this problems is that there isn't really any actual willingness to truly analyze this phenomenon - instead, what we get is virtue-signalling and phony indignation like in the vox article.

cateml · 2018-04-28T08:34:41+00:00

Its interesting because I hadn't seen a picture of him before I clicked that link, but he looks almost eerily like a friend of mine (who is also prematurely balding).
In the few years I've known this friend I've witnessed him happily date and have casual sex with no issue.

The mental health argument is misleading, to be perfectly honest.

This guy had ASD, and difficulty with social interaction likely related to that. But you know what, loads of people have ASD. And I don't mean to minimise the difficulties of living with that disability, at all, it can be incredibly frustrating and demoralising. But it's incredibly unfair and damaging to those people to pretend like the 'reason' this guy committed mass murder/a terrorist attack is 'because he had ASD'.
Many people with ASD enter long term relationships, the two (male) adults with ASD I know best socially are both in LTRs. Many have functioning social lives - a relative of mine who when we were kids I remember the grownups all worrying whether he would be essentially non-verbal for his entire life, now has a job and friends who he goes out and to events with. Yes, it can be really fucking hard, and some people with ASD don't ever manage to function on that level. But the internet likes to pretend ASD is synonymous with being a 4channing malcontent 'lol, hanging out with all the other spergs' when really it isn't. Struggling socially and being frustrated (generally with yourself) is related to living with ASD, dealing with your life problems by becoming bitter and aggressive isn't. A person with ASD can also be those things of course, because people with ASD are people and some people are those things, but its damaging to somehow pretend that its natural one flows from the other.

I also genuinely don't think a focus on mental health in general really helps either. Not that we shouldn't massively increase mental health support for its own sake anyway, but that won't make mental health problems disappear any more than building hospitals could ever eradicate illness.
"A person was depressed, and they did this because they were depressed, so if we had better depression treatment it wouldn't have happened". Maybe, but maybe not. Depression and mental health issues in general aren't as simple as taking pills for a couple of weeks and a couple of therapy sessions and then you're right as rain. We should give people those things, because with the right medication balance/talking interventions most people with mental health struggles can eventually either recover fully or manage to lead a functioning and fulfilling life. But some don't. People with depression who have had years and years of treatment and support still kill themselves, people who have spent a decade in and out of intensive Eating Disorder treatment still starve themselves until their organs give out.
It isn't that we shouldn't keep striving for a world where no one has to suffer or die due to mental health struggles, or we should just shrug and accept them as a part of life and forget about it. But the truth is the majority of people will have some form of mental health issue in their life time, and we don't really know what 'causes' it, and while treatment has come on leaps and bounds there is still an element of flailing around to see what sticks to it.
Its safe for the realistic future to just go ahead and assume that whatever funds/awareness we pour into mental health, people are still going to have problems that dramatically impact themselves and those around them.

So we can't keep focussing on the vulnerabilities of the person, there will always be vulnerable people, as if that is the bit we need to prioritise on fixing. We know that groups and ideologies specifically go for those people.

Maybe the Toronto killer had mental health issues and struggled to get by in life. But don't Radical Islam suicide bombers also have mental health issues and struggles? We know for a fact that ISIS and Al Qaeda both intentionally target young people who feel hopeless and alienated for recruitment. If we could magically turn everyone in the muslim world into a happily confident and functioning being, ISIS would probably really struggle to find an audience for their bullshit, but realistically that isn't going to happen.
Same for White Power/far right groups - again we know that they purposefully target those who feel hopeless and say 'Hey, you know what will give you hope? Channelling all your feelings into this."
The IRA used to do it as well.

How is someone joining groups which channel their feelings and struggles into an ideology that women's nature is responsible for their problems all that different to when it's 'infidels' or black people?

TL;DR I struggle to see how all these forms of the radicalisation of people with significant life problems into ideologies resulting in extreme violence aren't pretty interchangeable. Only apparently when its Radical Islam or White Nationalism we are supposed to focus on the ideology but then its this we're supposed to focus purely on the individual.
The events and factors leading to the following of the ideology and eventual act are complicated, or course they are, but that one element of it is pretty damn simple.

theambivalentrooster · 2018-04-28T11:53:08+00:00

Ugly people don't commit mass murders. Mentally ill people do.

Some mentally ill people might be ugly, but there are literally tens of millions of ugly people in the West alone and they aren't out causing a rising blood tide of normie annihilation.

For some strange, unfathomable reason I feel like the mental illness is more relevant to the mass murdering than the ugliness.

wtknight · 2018-04-28T13:09:52+00:00

There will always be incidents like this because we can't just give every man who has trouble with women a woman, and for every man who might commit a violent act expressing his frustration there are a very large number who will never do anything worse than complain on internet message boards, and some who won't even do that but will just sit quietly in their homes living their lonely lives, so you can't put every involuntarily celibate man into mental health programs. The fact that he used a vehicle rather than a gun shows that gun control isn't going to stop the problem either. In the end, since we can't read minds, this kind of thing will probably continue on a sporadic basis.

It also doesn't matter how he looks. A decent looking guy with anxiety being around women can be an incel.

2018-04-28T16:23:36+00:00

Laughing my ass off at people claiming this guy isn't ugly af.

sublimemongrel · 2018-04-28T04:46:50+00:00

Depression probably begets depression. This guy would have likely been better off had he not followed the religion of “incels.” He was clearly mentally ill. People like him need help, not other mentally ill people feeding into their illness.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2018-04-28T05:10:41+00:00

I wouldn't describe him as ugly. His eyebrows could use some grooming and let us be honest, some may have considered him less hot due to his ethnicity. He's not horrifyingly deformed or anything. That said, looks aren't the only aspect of getting laid; his mannerisms could've been nerdy/spergy/etc and that would've greatly helped reduce women's interest in having sex with him.

Will we see more incidents like this in the future? That's an interesting question. An interesting thing about this incident is that the perpetrator was not white by conventional definitions. It should also be pointed out that the last Incel-related terrorist attack, the Elliot Rodger killings, was perpetrated by someone who was half-Asian... this certainly doesn't fit nicely with the "privileged white males lashing out over losing their privilege" narrative that some on the left like to push as an explanation (sometimes for mass shootings in general).

We could make the argument that these killings are at least in part a consequence of contemporary/intersectional/tumblr feminism which creates an environment that encourages/exacerbates a lack of sympathy for men suffering from these kinds of issues, thus creating a radicalization effect where women/feminism become a priority target for retaliation... Indeed, I think Incel-type communities are pretty good examples of the same model of radicalization that the Quilliam Foundation uses to analyze Islamist radicalization... which basically says that Grievance (real or imagined, it doesn't matter) + Identity Crisis + Plausible (to the believer) Ideological Narrative + Charismatic Recruiter = Radicalization.

Since SJWs Always Double Down, the response will be "we need more feminism and more training to purge men of Toxic Masculinity," which in turn will heighten the sense of identity crisis and thus further contribute to radicalization. This isn't inconsistent with the fact that many people in the alt-right and related groups freely admit that they were radicalized by left-wing identity politics; the more extreme the SJWs get, the more people are radicalized in response.

Honestly I don't know, however, if this will 'get worse'. We've seen only two mass shootings related to Inceldom, and mental illness is clearly a contributing factor (Rodger had Asperger's Syndrome and I wouldn't be surprised if Minassian did too... Incels often have autism-spectrum conditions). I don't know if this is enough to constitute a 'trend' though since it is only two incidents and we can't really separate out issues of causality (how much was mental illness, potential side-effects of psychiatric drugs, incel radicalization, snapping after years of bullying, etc).

2018-04-28T17:01:16+00:00

So he had time to join an incel rebellion but no time to wax that unibrow? Ok.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2018-04-28T17:29:52+00:00

let's just say, if we were to pass by each other on the street, i wouldn't even notice him.

yes, sadly, which is why i urge women to be alert and govt. to treat these males as terrorists. because they fcking are. terrorists shouldnt be negotiated with. nip it in the bud.

2018-04-29T16:50:13+00:00

This is the gulf between men and women. For all their talk about achieving equality to us men, women will always find a place sitting on their back when the action begins.

daveofmars · 2018-04-28T15:57:53+00:00

I don't think he was ugly by appearance, but he likely had a ugly personality and attitude.

Absolutely. This is only the beginning. As more people see these terrorist attacks, more Incels will be encouraged to do it. The same effect has been observed for school shootings - when the media shows a school shooter's name and characterizes them as a villain, the other would-be school shooters see them as an anti-hero and want to emulate them. It's a terrible positive feedback loop. The media has largely stopped doing so on that front, but here is a new anomaly, so they can't help but report on the way they have before.

Vaca_Sagrada · 2018-04-29T18:53:47+00:00

It's astounding how these people lack the courage to speak to a single woman (Elliot Rodger admitted to never once in his life asking a girl out) but have the courage to commit a mass killing.

This speaks volumes as to how deeply we fear rejection as males.

rulenumber303 · 2018-04-28T05:31:56+00:00

He's kind of average looking for a 40 year old, ugly-ish for a 25 year old.

We'll keep seeing these incidents (and not just about sexual issues) because apparently mass murder is one of the things thwarted dudes do when thwarted, but rest assured, a mass murderer who was not given the opportunity to reproduce is not a sign that the system of mate selection has failed.

PPD-Angel · 2018-04-28T04:06:47+00:00

Edit: This will be approved for now because I am sure some people here want to discuss it. I will be clear about this, this will be the only post this event that will be allowed, all subsequent posts on this topic will be removed. If this gets out of hand it will be removed.

Also a reminder: no “woe-is-me I am a poor incel”, as much as I love banning people, I do not want do it. Thank you.

DarkLord0chinChin · 2018-04-28T08:18:20+00:00

Let's face it, he's not very attractive, he is an aspie programmer so he's not charismatic either. Between the fact that programmers have little free time for productive hobbies and everyone being less social in general I can sort of see how this could happen

oihaoerhg · 2018-04-28T06:29:14+00:00

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Salty-Bastard · 2018-04-28T04:37:17+00:00

Do not make this guy a martyr for the incel movement, he clearly had a mental illness and turned violent, who couldn't even drive and in no way a terrorist.

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abaxeron · 2018-04-28T13:15:06+00:00

No. He looks better than Stefan Molyneux looked in his best years.

Absolutely. There are too many of us. I mean people in general; not men, ASD people or incels. All sorts of incidents will inevitably happen simply because of pure multiplication of probabilities and amounts.

I find it ironic that the incident happened merely around a month after the Canadian government has decided to dedicate separate funding to ASD research and intervention (for the first time in history, around 70 years after ASDs were described for the first time in medical literature; I don't want to say "gynocentrism" but I'm saying "gynocentrism"). I'm not speculating that autistic people possess an imminent threat to humankind, but there's no "if" or "maybe" here - this guy was severely mentally ill, and the dedicated educational program designed to help him - didn't work.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-04-28T14:46:04+00:00

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truedemocracy3 · 2018-04-28T19:56:24+00:00

lol at this piece of shit. If he groomed his eye brows and spent time in the gym he could easily be a 7+ in the looks department. Incels are their own worst enemy.

Now for #2 - It's very possible. Physically speaking the majority of men arent attractive to women. In the past they've had economic status and financial security to offset this. Now that women can provide for themselves their dating pool is shrinking while the pool of sexless men is growing. Will they result in outward violence, inward violence, or just quit altogether? Who knows.

YesICanWhoopUrAss · 2018-04-29T01:22:28+00:00

Ten dead? No footage? Fake. Like the Elliot Roger event. Next.

cxj · 2018-04-29T02:15:00+00:00

Yes I’m convinced we’ll see more of this. The hysteria around it will lead to people voluntarily surrendering their civil liberties for “safety for the children” and down th slippery slope we’ll slide!!!

solorathain · 2018-04-29T02:56:36+00:00

lol what loser.

ganso_bum · 2018-04-29T12:03:33+00:00

Obviously. Feminism and entitled women aren't going away, so of course some of the losers of their system are going to retaliate.

Doom_and-Gloom · 2018-04-29T15:38:44+00:00

He's not hideous, but I certainly wouldn't describe him as attractive either. Ultimately, it doesn't matter though since as the OkCupid study demonstrated, any sub-8 man is basically Eggman in the eyes of women.
The more men find themselves priced out of the dating market, the worse the situation will get.

mydikishomofobik · 2018-04-28T15:11:22+00:00

Sorry if I'm derailing, but I'm worried that this sort of thing could be very easily twisted to fit an agenda to fuel a power grab

Willow-girl · 2018-04-28T21:59:25+00:00

I wonder if this is a natural outgrowth of our participation-trophy culture? The SMV after all is merciless, and it may be the first time some young men have ever had to actually compete on their merits.

Priene · 2018-04-28T09:07:46+00:00

This is why blackpillers need to be identified(every guy above the weight of 160lbs with 15%+ body fat/ugly guys/5 feet tall guys) and rounded up and put in jail before they lose it and lash out. Look at those kids, Elliot, that old guy Sodini, and now this 25 year old guy.

They weren't ugly, they were in shape, but their mental illness still prompted them into doing what they did. If guys like this, with money, social standing and normal, average looks, end up doing this what can be said about men who are so ugly and obese they call perfectly normal men ''super chad'' and have no social interactions with anyone other than with the peopel they work with?

On a lesser degree, we have the middle-aged red pill men who insist wives owe their husbands sex, the guys who keep complaining about hot women fucking hot men and then marrying men with money, funny how they forget they gotta give something in return to get someone much more attractive than them.

Let's not forget that there like 200 million guns in the USA alone, privately owned by citizens. Women in North America are truly amongst the most courageous women in the world to deal with these weirdos.

fschmidt · 2018-04-28T06:09:08+00:00

I can't judge his looks, but attacks like this have been happening for a while and there is no reason to expect them to stop.

I am a former incel and I wrote my thoughts about this event here:

/r/WhitePill/comments/8f1gkq/preventing_mass_killings/

prodigy2throw · 2018-04-28T17:25:47+00:00

Pretty sure I predicted one of these losers would go postal when that sub got banned.

Vaca_Sagrada · 2018-04-28T20:33:27+00:00

I guess not?

Possibly.

Entropy-7 · 2018-04-28T19:58:06+00:00

I was born and raised in TO. I have been living in China for the past 5 years or so and this is just one more reason why I do not intend on coming home.

Elmorean · 2018-04-28T16:35:02+00:00

What is not really talked about is white male rage. That's a bigger motivator imo than being an incel.