TheRedArchive

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I wish I could just stay bone skinny like a bean pole, and communicate to women with words without having to pass shit tests and decode their language and actions all the time. I have a lazy personality, so thats why Blue pill appeals to me. But I don't have women very excited to see me or attracted when I am lazy. I followed blue pill feminist advice in October and the results were as expected:

"You're not my type", she says. I was rejected more in October than I ever have been by following red pill advice.

I stopped going to the gym, and made sure to check my "male privilege" daily. I was not aggressive. I was nice and did everything blue pill and feminists would approve of.

So do you non reds understand that most reds wish red pill was not true? Many hate, and are disgusted that it works so well. Especially when so many naysayers claim it doesn't. Its pretty insulting to our intelligence when naysayers claim it to be bullshit...no, YOUR way is bullshit. But we wish it wasn't..


[–]LeaneGenovaBreaker of (comment) Chains[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a question for non RP users. If you guys cannot bother to read a flair before circlejerking, I will start banning people.

[–]CatchPhraze29 points30 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

I mean, it's just a gross over-steer. TRP Equates that all woman are super shallow and wont mind being manipulated, the truth is to some degree we're all shallow, and nobody likes being manipulated.

Blue pill at it's worst, is also an over-steer saying people shouldn't have the drive to improve themselves because mass acceptance is the way.

Neither of these ideologies set you up for success long term. Being lazy and skinny isn't attractive to most woman you're right, neither is being a douche bag though.

If you're putting in work that you don't want to, if you're only going to the gym to get a woman, then in the back of your head you're already coming into that relationship thinking you've done all this work to get there, and it's her turn. Chances are if you're dating her you already find her attractive, so she has. TRP acts like your presence is more because look at all the work your doing, and that's not the reality, in a partnership TBP is right: people need mutual respect and footing otherwise there will always be resentment.

That's the reason couples who communicate have better sex, and last longer and are the happiest, when polled. And not stoic, uncompromising men, like TRP says.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Being lazy and skinny isn't attractive to most woman you're right, neither is being a douche bag though.

actually, in my own marriage, finding my inner douchebag improved things a lot.

Because, you see, to Blues, "douchebag" =

--man who stands up for himself

--man who won't put up with bullshit from his woman (or any woman, for that matter)

--man who insists on getting what he wants/needs/desires

--man who withholds time/attention/resources from women who won't give him what he wants/needs/desires

--puts himself first

[–]CatchPhraze20 points21 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

No. This is another all or nothing mentality. Being a douche bag is being lying or purposely hurtful for ones own gain. You can both value yourself and your wife without having to sacrifice one or the other. Communication and compromise are sited to be the the causes of the best sex and the best shot for staying together when people are polled.

There is an equilibrium of respecting yourself and your partner that leads to the best and most stable relationships. I agree its hard to respect you if you don't respect yourself but it's not an all in type of gambit.

Anyone should stand up for themselves, and insist on getting their needs met. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You aren't withholding resources to get what you want. You're compromising with your wife so that you are both happy. It sounds less alpha, but its what actually works. The thing is TRP will often over steer men unto the point where the wife is then not having HER needs met because it really suffers from an all or nothing mentality. They think that:

Blue pill men only give to woman and never get in return. Red pill men only take from woman and never give in return.

The truth: Men who are in happy stable marriages, both are given, and give in return.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Communication and compromise are sited to be the the causes of the best sex and the best shot for staying together when people are polled.

I am a well above average communicator. I 'communicated' with my wife constantly. We talked. And talked and talked and talked. And cried and prayed and fought and yelled and screamed and whispered. We talked ALL THE TIME.

And it got me nowhere. If talking solved problems, there would be no Red Pill because there would be no need for it. The men at Red Pill communicated all the time with their wives/GFs/women, and it led to constant failure. The reason it failed is because the men doing the talking were sexually unattractive pussies with no self-respect and who allowed their wives/women/GFs to walk all over them.

Communication is NOT the problem. Men's lack of self respect and lack of sexual attractiveness is.

There is an equilibrium of respecting yourself and your partner that leads to the best and most stable relationships

Men love women; women respect men.

You're compromising with your wife so that you are both happy.

That only works if she also compromises, and in fact compromises slightly more.

[–]CatchPhraze16 points17 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Communication isn't just talking. It's listening, absorbing and applying. Most people get confused and just repeat step one.

" who allowed their wives/women/GFs to walk all over them." This is a no compromise situation, whom we both agree is not going to work.

"That only works if she also compromises, and in fact compromises slightly more."

Maybe you think your wife is doing more compromise, but likely she was just willing to respect you from the get-go and it was your self-respect that needed catching up. That's not a TRP principle though, self respect is pretty much baseline 101 for happy people, regardless of their ideology.

If it's working for you and shes happy that's great, but I don't think you need to consider yourself a douche-bag or a bad person because it sounds like your just trying to make everyone happy in the situation and that's a thing a good person with respect for both people would do.

So I think you're taking the good part of the TRP that fosters self-worth. As long as avoid the whole "Woman don't love like men do" or "I'm entitlted to more because I'm the man" and the misogynistic pitfalls of that ideology I think you'll be doing just fine. Don't over steer my friend. Because then you'll be in the opposite situation where shes being walked on: and someone with self respect, isn't going to stick around where THERE needs aren't being met. You've proven this yourself.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Back to what I said:

Communication is not the problem. Men's lack of self respect and lack of sexual attractiveness is.

Men do NOT need to "talk more". They also don't need to listen, absorb or apply more. What they need to do is lift heavy weights, get in shape, get their finances in order, excel at their jobs, and stop taking shit from people, especially women.

[–]CatchPhraze10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

What if I told you, what woman are asking for when they communicate is often for a partner whom is happy, and confident and secure, and in your case you did that by "lift heavy weights, get in shape, get their finances in order, excel at their job"

That might be radical for you, but its true. Most woman aren't asking you be unhappy, have no ambition, or be lazy. If a woman is communicating that she wants more effort put in, and then you put in effort, you did it. Good job.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What if I told you, that if women want a partner who is happy, confident and secure, the very LAST thing they should be doing is acting like a bitch to their partners?

What if I told you that the best thing a woman can do to have a happy, confident and secure partner is to shut the fuck up and just support the guy she picked?

[–]CatchPhraze8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"I don't take bullshit from woman." "Woman should just fully accept their partners"

How does a light bulb not click for you when you see something like that. If bullshit isn't your style, it's not hers either. You both want to be happy? You both put effort in.

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

TIL encouraging you = "acting like a bitch."

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If a woman is communicating that she wants more effort put in, and then you put in effort, you did it. Good job.

Ooh you did it now! Lol. It’s probably going to aggravate Lewis to get ‘approval’ from a blue-piller (I’m just assuming you are BP, correct me if I’m wrong). Because when it comes to RP, being ‘edgy’ and rebellious to common norms is the name of the game. And so, approval from a blooper is an insult to their edginess.

Yep. RPers are all fucking nuts.

[–]namdeirfnotlim5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

and stop taking shit from people, especially women.

This is one thing that RP gets wrong. Taking shit from other men will make you much less attractive than taking shit from her. Being dominant to other men is more attractive than being dominant to her.

[–]IckyStickyPoo2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Men love women; women respect men.

Love and respect go both ways. If they don't, it's a shitty relationship.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I tried it that way. Didn’t work.

[–]IckyStickyPoo4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I tried it that way. Didn’t work.

Good for you, lad. But for most people, that's how it works.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Didn’t work for me.

I also don’t think you can speak for “most people”. You are one person, and in my mind, one person is not “most people”. So the most that you can say, is that love and respect going both ways works for you. But you cannot speak for “most people”.

[–]IckyStickyPoo1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I can indeed speak for most people - because most members of couples would insist they love and respect each other.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I bet if I got most of the women half of those couples alone, speaking frankly, they'd say they neither love nor respect their men.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

--man who withholds time/attention/resources from women who won't give him what he wants/needs/desires

Then why complain about women who try to manipulate and control you through sex? I mean, whenever a woman says, “oh, you didn’t wash those dishes today like I asked you to, or you haven’t fixed that leaky faucet like I asked you to do over 2 weeks ago, well then, no sex for you tonight”...why is that bad?

Apparently in that instance, you’ve refused to do something she wants you to do and she’s ‘standing up for herself’ by withholding sex. Do you see how hypocritical it is to complain about women doing this, when you’re doing the same thing in reverse? No? Of course not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't complain about that anymore.

Also, I didn't start this war, you women did. Even though I didn't start it, I have to fight in it, and fight I will. Manipulation goes both ways. If she's going to play that game, I will too.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't complain about that anymore.

Well, goody for us all.

Also, I didn't start this war, you women did. Even though I didn't start it, I have to fight in it, and fight I will. Manipulation goes both ways. If she's going to play that game, I will too.

TIL we are all in a war with men. I better inform the rest of the womenfolk, so we can jack up our manipulation tactics and not fall too far behind. Even sex once a week or once a month is too much. We have all been giving too much leverage away. Time to take back the upper hand in manipulation. Thanks Lewis.

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer22 points23 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

There is something interesting I am beginning to notice about the world that I would like to share, I came to a certain conclusion after participating on r/DebateReligion for a while and talking to some of my classmates who are very religious. What people consider their "truth" is different than what you consider your "truth".

People have vastly different experiences, personality types and methods of thinking, and this will usually have a direct effect on their world views. There is a plethora of ways to view the events in the world and the behavior of people. The Red Pill is one of the many ways to interpret relationships and behaviors of the opposite sex. The Red Pill is a subjective truth. To use a cliche example: some people view the glass as half full, some view a glass as half empty, those are both true, but a subjective way of looking at it, the objective way would be to measure the liquid in the cup and give a number for the measurement.

u/BiggerDThanYou for example views the world and relationships in a different way than you do, what must be remembered is that that user thinks what he is saying is about as true as what The Red Pill is saying is. But BiggerDThanYou did not come to their conclusions about life arbitrarily and without reason, their experience, personality, feelings or thinking style helped form their beliefs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/75ux7j/naturals_are_superior_to_men_who_learn_game/

This post by u/madscientistlove(I would like to be corrected if I get the point of the discussion prompt incorrect), about "naturals" being superior has some merit, because the way that males who just had success with the opposite sex view females, relationships and life is generally going to be vastly different than how someone who had to read The Red Pill does. "Naturals" had different life experiences or personality types than those who have to read The Red Pill to figure everything out, they made their own model for dating.

I could make up a term right now for people who write between the times of 2:00 AM to 4:00 AM, just as anyone can make up their own word for anything. What you call "blue pill" advice is simply just a way of interpreting it. When tragedy strikes Christians believe God is testing them, people with victim complexes believe the world is against them and some other individuals even believe that that is just life, these are all truths to them, just as The Red Pill is a truth, to you.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Good comment.

[–]namdeirfnotlim5 points6 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Really? A comment that throws truth straight out of the window? Something is either true or false, not true to one person and false to another person. Person A may believe X and person B may believe the opposite of X, but one of those people is wrong. This "truth to you" business causes mind rot. Christians on debate subreddits like it because they know that they cannot defend their beliefs unless they adopt an epistemology specifically designed to make Christianity "true for me". They don't use that epistemology anywhere else in their life. Ecumenicalism is intellectual poison.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.6 points7 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

I think you are missing her point. Her point isn't that "truth doesn't matter" it's that it can be subjective to the individual and based upon personal experience. This is something most likely present when you're discussing something as variable and personal as dating/love/sex/relationships.

Edit: although u/Electra_Cute can correct me I'm wrong in that assessment.

[–]namdeirfnotlim1 point2 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

There are objective truths about personal circumstances, and that does not make truth subjective.

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer4 points5 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I will give you an example:

Objective position: Female has sexual intercourse with several males through college then proceeds to marry after college.

Subjective position: She rode the "cock carousel" and found a "beta bucks".

Subjective position: She had a bit of fun with some men, then married someone she wanted to start a family with.

See, 2 different ways of interpreting the same event. A lot of Red Pill users believe the first subjective position is the truth. Some other users believe the second subjective position is the truth. Objectivity does not account for how people view the world. I am not saying there is no such thing as objective truths, but there is different interpretations on what is the truth.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Kind of like "framing something"?

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes, exactly. When you are communicating with someone else, they see reality in a different way.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I find it very interesting because in hindsight I think I often "won" arguments/fights in real-life by taking exactly what they said or said months ago (good memory) and reframing it to fit the narrative of the argument I was making.

I didn't do this consciously though and I was often confused when people said I was being unfair. And I got that feedback lot, unfortunately.

I thought I was being fair by listening to what they said, and working with their point of view, but I can see now how that could feel kind of, hm, "intrusive" and that people can feel overrun if you have an every-day fight and suddenly they are confronted with not only arguments but a complete narrative and everything they say becomes part of that narrative.

Holy...

Sounds scary. And I didn't really win, because they weren't convinced, they just felt tricked somehow.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sometimes I try and do that too. For example, framing the argument using a RP worldview.

[–]namdeirfnotlim0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

If that's what you meant, then a clearer way to describe it is that BP has emotional objections to RP terms but they agree if you substitute the definition of the term.

I didn't get that out of your original comment. Christianity, for example, is either true or false. It's not a "subjective truth". Either there was really a person called Jesus who rose from the death, or there was not. Some people believe that there was, some people believe that there wasn't. One of those groups of people is wrong.

but there is different interpretations on what is the truth

Yes: true interpretations and false interpretations.

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

They are both different frameworks and interpretations of reality. Christians have different ways of seeing reality than I do, and I have a different way of seeing reality than you do.

[–]namdeirfnotlim0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is what I mean by intellectual poison.

Christians have a different way of seeing reality than you do, and either they or you are wrong. Either it is the case that you go to hell if you have gay sex, or it is not. The same applies to other claims that some subset of people who call themselves Christians believe in. The claim that Jesus rose from the death seems to be the mostly agreed upon minimal Christian belief, and that too is a claim that's true or false, not "true to me and false to you".

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That is fine if you think it is intellectual poison to consider your interlocutors worldview while having a discussion with them. I do not know what you are trying to debate to me at this point.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Not the point. No one is saying objective truth just doesn't exist, just that what a person believes is true may be subjective to them and their experiences.

[–]namdeirfnotlim1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Then why say stuff like "truths to them" rather than "they believe"?

If you do that substitution in that comment your reaction should be "no shit sherlock", e.g.:

What people consider their "truth" is different than what you consider your "truth".

==>

What other people believe is different than what you believe.

This only muddies the waters in an effort to be "nice" because you can now say things like "it's true to you" rather than "you believe X but you're wrong".

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Then why say stuff like "truths to them" rather than "they believe"?

It's sort of the same difference to me. I didn't have difficulty understanding what she meant. I mean she even put truth in quotes there.

[–]namdeirfnotlim4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So we now have objective truth spelled truth and we have belief spelled "truth". Very useful.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't really know what you want from me, like I said I didn't have trouble understanding her and I commented to you with the explanation which you seemed to grasp just fine so what do you want to argue? Whether she could have written it more clearly?

[–]Ezaar2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Big up for this.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Props

[–]notworthmuch20xx 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm so disappointed you didn't use this as an opportunity to just rag on biggerd

[–]Electra_CuteChristian, Flat Earther, Anti-Vaxxer, Astrologer1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why would I do that?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why not?

[–]shoup88Report me bitch10 points11 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I think a lot of red pillers wish very much that it were true. Red pill explains that not only is their lack of success not really their fault (it's all biologically ordained!), but also provides concrete steps to get laid. And if it doesn't work right away, don't worry, it definitely will - literally all men and women are like this! You just need to keep mashing the right button combo. What about this is not appealing to a sexually unsuccessful person who loves systemizing?

[–]WavesAcross3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

that not only is their lack of success not really their fault (it's all biologically ordained!)

Why do you think this? That is an incel's perspective. TRP is about changing your self so you get success. If it wasn't your fault how could changing your self work?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This. If anything TRP is the exact opposite. It is based in ownership and responsibility.

[–]CrackFerretusI think you're all autistic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP is about changing your self so you get success.

BE THIS SPECIFIC PERSON AND REPEAT THESE PHRASES IN CONVERSATION TO WIN A SEX! Is how TRP reads. Sure, it says all this stuff about personal responsibility, and then it goes and spews bullshit like AWALT and Plates and all sorts of autistic, hateful, self fulfilling, narcissistic crap. It advocates personal responsibility in name only.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

AWALT until proven otherwise is what they mean by all women are like this

[–]Entropy-7Old Goat4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There was one user who uses the analogy of gun safety: when dealing with firearms you always assume they are loaded until you personally check the mag, breech, cylinder etc. to confirm it isn't.

With women, assume AWALT and you will be right more than half the time, and better than shooting yourself in the foot, so to speak.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm more RP than purple, but I wish it was not true. I wish I would be attractive for how I am to lot of women. just like there are shitload of men who are ok with small tits and no curves, I wish there was shitload of women ok with short non masculine men. Just like there are shitload of men ok with women not having a single muscle, I wish women were ok with men not having a single muscle. Just like men have low barriers on sex I wish women were like that too.

Life would be tremendously easier for men if women were like men. And i guess the contrary is true too.

TRP doesn't tell you it's easy, TRP tells you it's hard and you have to work for it. Nobody wants that.

[–]mgtownigga 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

hell no lol. That would require them to acknowledge that trp is right in any way, and that there are men out there that stand to benefit A LOT from internalizing the shit there.

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why did you stop going to the gym, though? I am not huff puff bench press person and I am sure my workout would impress nobody but who cares it is a great way to manage stress and keep functionality.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I got Lazy and thought, lets see if I can still ve attractive minus the gym

[–]dailyqtProcreation should cease4 points5 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

It's funny that you ask this, because I feel like "red pill" ideals are actually very far removed from reality, as opposed to the Matrix's "red pill."

It's like The Truman Show. Everyone's always bitching about how much happier women were when they were "compliant," that we would be much happier if we had all just stayed barefoot in a kitchen and would smile and nod at everything men say. However, in The Truman Show, Truman Burbank was also much happier before he knew that he was the main subject of a TV show because he was being given the illusion of choice. When he realized that he actually had no choice in how his life was going, he became very angry and upset because he was aware. Now that women know that we're getting short-ended constantly, we're angry. Truman wasn't happy until he finally took the "red pill,"(in the original Matrix sense) so to speak, and finally left his dome. Women are trying to get men to give that sweet Red Pill, and it's taken us over a hundred years.

So yeah, your way is bullshit.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 1 point2 points  (31 children) | Copy Link

Truman show is great. Watched it the other night. Good analogy.

However, no, YOUR way is bullshit. Women are NOT oppressed. Stop acting like a helpless victim child. Men get short ended too you know.

If red pill ideals are far removed from reality, then can you please have sex with me? Please? I'm being beta. Are you attracted yet?

I'm guessing not. So no, being a beta male doesn't work in garnering sexual attraction.

[–]dailyqtProcreation should cease1 point2 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

I actually had kind of a realization recently, even after posting that comment. Both men and women need their "red pills."

Men are in a dome that oppresses them with having to fit into society in a certain way. All men need to be tall, fit, make good money, reject their own emotions, and slay pussy in order to completely fit into society. The RPTM approach, apparently, is to completely conform to those standards. They realize how they're getting short-ended, and they're just playing along.(Think, had Truman just upped his acting ability and worked with the producers to make the show more interesting.)

Women are stuck in their dome as well. We are expected not to have careers, to make children our end goal in life, to wear makeup(but not TOO MUCH MAKEUP God FORBID), to dress for men(Modestly but NOT frumpy/showy but NOT slutty), to keep our voices down in the presence of men(have you ever noticed how women will talk over and interrupt each other, but even if a woman is several seconds into a sentence if a man starts talking over her it's just understood that she'll politely wait for him to finish what he's saying before she continues? Esp in professional settings, I've noticed), to ignore blatantly sexist remarks made by men, etc. We've only realized recently, in the last hundred years or so, how shitty our end of the stick is. But we don't want to play along. It literally feels like we're stuck in a dome where everyone just has these weird, silly, entirely unfair, and arbitrarily made-up rules that are absolutely unnecessary in real life, and by taking our red pill, we get to leave the dome and experience real life where men and women aren't treated too terribly differently.

And lastly, yes, I realize that I have no idea what it's like to be a man. I have no idea what hardships you guys go through, because no doubt you have many. But please don't say that "women are NOT oppressed" because you have no idea what it's like to be a woman in modern society. I trust that men are extremely oppressed in many, many ways, and you need to trust that women are still heavily affected by the fact that we were considered property until less than a hundred years ago.

[–]SuperLotus97Liberal Cuck1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Before the RP bastardized and appropriated various teachings, David Deangelo had a program called On Being A Man where he talked about this.

It's been a few years since I've listened to the program so I don't remember exactly what he said, but basically with each new wave of feminism (I don't remember the exact terminology he used) men and women sort of overcorrect from their previous gender roles. So first you see women getting tougher and men trying to be sensitive and then next phase where women go back to being more girly and men getting alpha.

However this becomes dysfunctional on both sides. Perhaps that's unavoidable. I really think the next wave/phase has to go beyond the "us vs them" mentality. I'm more feminist than anti-feminist, but I do believe that feminists have some responsibility. It's true that women are more oppressed than men, but men suffer a lot too (even if it's partially due to patriarchy).

and lastly, yes, I realize that I have no idea what it's like to be a man

You should read this article. http://abcnews.go.com/story?id=1526982 It's about a lesbian feminist who lives as a man for 18 months and develops an empathy and understanding of men.

You might also want listen to some transmen's experiences on testosterone (and transwomen on estrogen). There actually are some biological differences between genders.

[–]dailyqtProcreation should cease0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow, thanks for such a great comment.(I'd actually sworn off PPD because of how anxious it was making me, seeing so many men openly hate women). I was expecting the guy I'd replied to to make an argument like this, but as you can see, he's a certified nine year old.

I just wish so badly we'd stop talking about gender roles. Because there are three things that could happen: 1) people would stop feeling pressure to conform to their roles even if they don't want to("I'll never get married or have children if I go to school!"), 2) people will stop feeling pressure to defy these roles("can I still be a feminist if I'm a SAHM?") and 3) most likely more people will conform to their roles than not. Thus proving these assholes ight. Win win win.

[–]SuperLotus97Liberal Cuck0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. I have to admit I was feeling the same way about some women and feminists, but the pushback from men is equally dysfunctional. Maybe worse since they're reinforcing the status quo. I think anger on both sides is justifiable, but how you handle the emotions is the key.

And I will say that there are mature men in this communities who are able to sift through the crap. I just can't constantly be bombarded by hatred of anything that isn't white/hetero/cis/etc. It does make me sad that so many people seem to see The Donald as a role model rather than David D.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (26 children) | Copy Link

Are you banging the "tall, muscular, money making pussy slayers" or the short skinny guys? If its the former, you are a part of the problem

[–]SlimLovinHigh Value to Own the Libs2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yea /u/dailyqt! You're part of the problem if you aren't fucking guys to whom you aren't attracted!

Lol what kind of reasoning is this?

[–]dailyqtProcreation should cease1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Tbh some of these guys are so delusional LMAO

[–]dailyqtProcreation should cease1 point2 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Ah, I thought we were going to have an actually deep conversation and understanding, but alas.

Also,

Men are in a dome that oppresses them with having to fit into society in a certain way. All men need to[...]slay pussy in order to completely fit into society.

No, you're a part of the problem. Men do not need to have sex in order to be valid members of society. They don't need my approval. They don't need anyone's approval. Men are human beings and are valid based on that alone. I literally just said, as you can see my quote above, that telling men that they need to have sex to be valid members of society is oppression. You are a part of the war on men. You are an active oppressor of men.

And another thing about being a woman in modern(or any age thereof) society is being told that I, for some reason, owe anyone sex, which is inherently untrue.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (22 children) | Copy Link

We are having a discussion. You are avoiding my question though. Are you banging the stereotypical masculine men? If so, its probably part of your biology but it also means no amount of social justice is going to make a difference. Youll keep banging alphas.

[–]dailyqtProcreation should cease1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Okay, I'll gladly answer your question! My best male friends in high school varied between short, tall, skinny, muscly, and fat! I'm married, but I'm not about to describe my husband because that feels like a breach on my privacy. He's definitely a mix of both groups, though.

However, why do you think it's so important for men to have sex in order to be valid members of society? That is the war on men.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (20 children) | Copy Link

I dont think its important. But society seems too. Feminism seems to. Feminists and blue pillers are the ones constantly attacking red pill calling the users "virgin neckbeard basement dwellers".

You should be asking feminists why they think its so important for men to be getting laid a lot. They are the ones who virgin shame.

The left virgin shames. The right doesnt do that, generally.

I could care less about it. But women seem to care. Many women wont touch an inexperienced man. I'm sure there are exceptions.

[–]dailyqtProcreation should cease1 point2 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

You seem to really enjoy telling me what I think, despite not knowing anything about what I think. I'm a leftist feminist. I've literally said in every comment I've replied to you that telling men they need to have sex in order to be valid is oppression.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (18 children) | Copy Link

You're not a feminist. Feminists would have your head if they found out you were married. They find marriage oppressive. They think being a dirty slut is the best way to go.

Ha. You're married? AND a feminist? I think a lot of feminists would wrongly judge you for that!

[–]Hellothere_13 points4 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

I have a lazy personality, so thats why Blue pill appeals to me. But I don't have women very excited to see me or attracted when I am lazy.

That's the thing. Red Pill often seems to equate Blue Pill mentality with "You don't have to do anything, if you are a nice guy women will eventually realize that and come to you."

Well, that kind of thing will rarely work.

If you want to find dates, you have to be proactive. You have to put yourself into situations where you meed women, you have to overcome your shyness and talk to them and eventually you'll probably have to take the risk of introducing some flirting to a conversation if you want it to go anywhere even if you might be more comfortable with just continuing harmless small talk.

Being blue pill doesn't mean I believe you don't have to work to get into relationship. All it means is that I don't believe that you have to make sure to stay dominant all the time, that women are emotionless monsters that will leave you for chad the moment you don't pay attention, that I have to pretend alphaness or use emotional manipulation to get a date or that something like DREAD game can ever be considered a good idea ever.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Red Pill often seems to equate Blue Pill mentality with "You don't have to do anything, if you are a nice guy women will eventually realize that come to you."

Because that's what Blue mentality is. It's literally "do not change, you don't need to change, you're great just the way you are, someday someone will love you just for who you are". I can't even tell you the number of times I was literally told EXACTLY this growing up. By adults, girls... everyone.

[–]Hellothere_12 points3 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Well yeah that's stupid.

However, there is some huge middle ground between "You don't need to do anything at all and girls will come to you" and "All women are manipulative monsters and you need to be an asshole to attract any".

All that Blue Pill (in the context of purple pill debate) means is that you despise redpill for its views on women and immoral and manipulative dating advice. It does not mean we all think just sitting lazily on your ass all day and being nice will eventually get you a girlfriend.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

you despise redpill for its views on women and immoral and manipulative dating advice.

Whose morality? Why do you get to decide what's moral and what's immoral?

All dating advice is manipulative. Everything everyone does at all times is manipulative. Blues manipulate just as much as anyone else does.

[–]Hellothere_12 points3 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Moral relativism is bullshit but I'm not going to go into a deep philosophical debate with you on why that is.

Suffice to say even without any religious tenants you can logically deduce some moral absolutes and TRP quite clearly violates a bunch of them.

Of course, you might argue that every conversation ultimately aims to convince the other person of doing something they might not do on their own, and that's probably true, but there is still a big difference between mutually working towards something both of you want and manipulating your opponent into accepting behavior they dislike and doing things they genuinely don't want because you destroyed their self-confidence (like TRP advocates).

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

you can logically deduce some moral absolutes

Moral, Logical. Pick one.

Morality is outside logic. There's some overlap, but there is much that is logical but not moral and much that is moral but not logical. So pick one.

a big difference between mutually working towards something both of you want and manipulating your opponent into accepting behavior they dislike and doing things they genuinely don't want because you destroyed their self-confidence

They're both manipulation. Where you go wrong is trying to assign a moral component to manipulation. What makes it "immoral" to you is either (1) the mindset behind it; or (2) that someone gets something they otherwise wouldn't have gotten or (3) someone "got over" on someone else

People are getting over on others all the time. You've done it. I've done it. We all do.

[–]Hellothere_12 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Moral, Logical. Pick one.

Morality is outside logic. There's some overlap, but there is much that is logical but not moral and much that is moral but not logical. So pick one.

You are so incredibly wrong about this. Finding a logical basis for morality is one of the core aspects of what modern philosophy is all about and it has been done many times with different approaches.

Kant's deontology, utilitarianism, the golden rule, the prisoners dilemma, the concept of a social contract are all ideas aimed at providing a full set of morals on the basis of purely logical conclusions.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

The point is that you don't get to decide what is moral and what isn't.

And what if modern philosophy later determines that all the above thigns were wrong or not useful? What I've determined about human-based systems of morality is that they can be abolished as easily as they're adopted, and that the "right" morality is always determined by who's in the majority. And that always results in minority persecution.

Try again.

[–]Hellothere_12 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

In that case all I can say is that I'm glad there aren't too many people with your attitude, otherwise life would suck a whole lot more for everyone (including you)

Is it really that hard for you to grasp the idea that if everyone treats each other with respect and basic human decency this will make things a lot better for everyone?

Choosing to ignore morality might give you some short term advantage over other humans but will make things worse for humanity in general and ultimately yourself in the long run.

TRP is usually so fond of Darwinist arguments, so, why do you think humans evolved over millions of years to have a morality and a sense of empathy and fairness if having those things was not beneficial to the survival and success of the individual.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

The minute you and your buddies on the Left decide that

everyone treats each other with respect and basic human decency

is NOT making things better for YOU, it will be discarded.

Just as it is being now by your social justice warrior friends. Your SJW friends don't adhere to this code. They are all about treating men as less than human. See u/thechemist158's discussion about how men's problems are less important than "animal cruelty". Right there - a claim that men are literally subhuman.

Here's chemist's manifesto on how men's problems are less important than "animal suffering".

The moment that "moral code" ceases being useful or advantageous to you, it'll be tossed, and you'll behave as it if never existed in the first place.

[–]storffish3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm genuinely curious what rock you live under that you never gleaned that working out will make you look better and healthier and you needed reddit to tell you? is brushing your teeth a redpill concept too because having rotten teeth is part of "being yourself" by your definition? who told you that your laziness was an attractive trait that you should nurture? your mom? and why? because it's part of "yourself?" you're either making a lazy, bad faith argument on purpose or you're socially stunted.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Its whats on the inside that counts is what I heard all the time.

[–]storffish0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

were you blind to the fact that chicks cream themselves over guys like Chris Hemsworth or did you choose to ignore it?

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Blind

[–]CrackFerretusI think you're all autistic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, the women on social media who cream themselves over celebrities are like that, but it's the same autistic confirmation bias you all seem to operate in.

[–]CrackFerretusI think you're all autistic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm genuinely curious what rock you live under that you never gleaned that working out will make you look better and healthier and you needed reddit to tell you? is brushing your teeth a redpill concept

The rock all redpillers come from. No well adjusted human being takes the redpill, it's only incels, and autistic people who use the sub because they never figured out its most basic advice, and wind up taking in all the resentful autism that comes with it. Their irrqtionaly hatred of video games is indicative of the fact none of them listed games in their free time like normal human beings, they all let it consume their lives and prioritized it over social interactions. TRP of course blames the games, allowing users to placate away all forms of responsibility and self loathing. Ever TRPer I know IRL has been screwed over by its advice and has only been able to land awful dysfunctional short term relationships with cheaters and women with severe daddy issues. Not to mention said TRPers were turbo artists who perfectly embodied what TRP calls blue pill. Orbited women, would refuse dates with them to play Wow, and expected girls to magically come to them. TRP isn't for normally, smart, or healthy people.

[–]scrubchan 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't believe that. For example, "The Wall" reads like a gleeful revenge fantasy rather than actual consideration of facts, especially for young college aged guys (like a lot of TRP) - how would they know?

What is "blue pill feminist advice"? Many blue pill feminists would agree that to have success with women, you need to work on your appearance (gym,clothes,groom), be confident, enjoyable to be around etc etc. These aren't exclusively red pill ideas - everyone knows those things. Only fringe meme tumblrinas think you need to check your privilege every day. It sounds like you are just knocking over a TRP straw man of red pill criticizers.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I don't believe that. For example, "The Wall" reads like a gleeful revenge fantasy rather than actual consideration of facts, especially for young college aged guys (like a lot of TRP) - how would they know?

And how would all the college aged women and the over 30 but married women know anything about the harsh realities of dating on the 30+ dating market?

The revenge fantasy is real. I know it because I have seen it for 7 years now.

[–]scrubchan2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not talking about what women know, I'm talking about guys on TRP who talk about the wall. I'm saying many TRPers do not have the life experience to know whether the wall is real and to what extent it affects women (not making a comment on the validity on it!), but the gleeful way they post about it suggests that it is a revenge fantasy they want to be true. In contradiction to OP's assertion that redpillers don't want the red pill to be true.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

but the gleeful way they post about it suggests that it is a revenge fantasy they want to be true. In contradiction to OP's assertion that redpillers don't want the red pill to be true.

Ah, thanks, now I understand.

Well, I can answer that:

The revenge fantasy is only there because men hate the red pill truth they see in real-life.

If dating didn't suck for them (and it sucks or sucked for them because they were clueless beta guys) they wouldn't obsess over the revenge fantasy.

So in short: if the red pill was false, there would be no revenge fantasy.

[–]scrubchan2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I can see that my point didn't really contradict OP. But dating sucking for some guys doesn't confirm red pill imo. Unattractive, unfit, poorly groomed autistic men don't have success with women is not exclusively a red pill idea, most people (including blue pill feminists) would agree with this.

[–]cinmacn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m not sure which part of it would be considered a revenge fantasy. College girls are more physically attractive than 30 year old women. How exactly is that controversial?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, the Wall is real, but it's softer than we thought it was. There's not too much comeuppance. These women will still get a milquetoasty manlet/Pajama Boy clone to marry them. They'll still find SOMEONE to marry them.

But not so much to sexually attractive men. They'll marry men and use them for provider support whilst cheating on him with more sexually attractive men.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

These women will still get a milquetoasty manlet/Pajama Boy clone to marry them. They'll still find SOMEONE to marry them.

Yes, but that's not what women are expecting. They think that they can find a man who is at least slightly attractive.

The wall isn't soft by any standards.

Yes, they can find a provider but nobody ever said that they can't.

But not so much to sexually attractive men. They'll marry men and use them for provider support whilst cheating on him with more sexually attractive men.

Yes, good point. Women who go that route have a soft landing. But not every woman wants to do it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

TO the main point: I can't even tell you how much I wish RP wasn't true. But it is, and I have no choice but to accept that.

Yes, most women expect a slightly attractive man. It's just that most women aren't going to get one.

Most women will marry SOMEONE. They'll pick out some Oliver Omega and stripmine him for resources. For a lot of women, at least in the Midwest, being Mrs. Omega is better than being Miss Singleton or Miss Divorced or Miss Nevermarried. Because being Mrs. Omega means you could get someone, anyone, to give a shit about you and think highly enough of you to spend his money on you and give you unfettered control over his money.

As an aside: The circlejerking going on amongst Blues has reached critical mass

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

Oh that is complete bullshit. Read the mother of all BP sites - Buzzfeed. 'To have dating success you should work on gym, clothes, groom' is the exact opposite it preaches.

[–]scrubchan0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

There is no "Mother of all BP sites". Blue pill is not an ideology - all blue pill means is "not red pill". So buzzfeed might be feminist and blue pill, but it doesn't speak for all feminists and bluepillers. In the same way, I could go on /r/TRP right now and find a hateful and stupid post, and you could fairly say "that guy doesn't speak for redpill". So I don't care what buzzfeed says.

So again, many blue pill feminists would agree with gym, clothes, groom, confidence. This is not exclusively redpill advice, these are completely mainstream ideas.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Again, not true. BPers dont recognize that agency. To tell a guy 'a girl wont date you because you're wearing cargo shorts, try these instead' is not a mainstream idea in the least

[–]scrubchan1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Did you downvote me?

I can find tons of examples in mainstream culture of how to get girls. In this cosmo article, hot guys wear nice clothes that fit, are tall, and have muscles. Is cosmo red pill? This Saturday Night Live Sketch, is the origin of that "be attractive, don't be unattractive" thing. SNL is a very mainstream comedy show which could certainly be described as feminist.

In this Big Bang Theory clip, weak and nerdy and small Leonerd is the butt of the joke and Penny is clearly more attracted to her ex.

What about the Fonz in Happy Days? Barney Stinson in How I Met Your Mother? Joey in Friends? In mainstream TV, the guy who gets girls is ALWAYS the same type - he is attractive and confident. Yes your Mom will tell you that you're handsome because she wants you to feel good, and we all, men and women, are fed weak platitudes of "looks don't matter", but mainstream culture is full of examples of how they do, and the vast majority of men and women pick up on this by mid teens.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

'be attractive, dont be unattractive' is BP as fuck. It shows that you have no agency. It's why Redditors quote it all the time - on average they are lower tier men in looks. When I was 'plugged in' I put no effort into my appearance because I just assumed people like Tom Brady were good looking, people that werent were not, and that was your lot in life.

[–]scrubchan0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

be attractive != be handsome

You were making an assumption that a man can't change his attractiveness. Red pill absolutely agrees with 'be attractive, don't be unattractive', it also states that you should make yourself as attractive as possible. Sure, a man can't make himself more handsome (bar surgery), but he can absolutely make himself more attractive in many ways:

  • work out
  • wear fitting clothes in a style which suits him
  • smell good
  • haircut
  • stubble
  • body language and posture

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Be attractive, dont be unattractive isnt muttered by RP types. It's spoken by Reddit losers who wish they were attractive but dont realize they have the agency to be so

[–]scrubchan0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Be attractive, dont be unattractive isnt muttered by RP types

Yeah, it totally is, by RP types who understand that while you cannot change how handsome you are, you can and should change how attractive you are. This is not the same as incel whining about height and looks and race. Here are some heavily upvoted examples of endorsed contributors saying "be attractive".

1 2 3 4

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

You dont get what I am saying. Obviously TRP acknowledges the importance of looks. But the entire saying is muttered frequently on Reddit by losers who accept they are ugly - not by RP types

[–]namdeirfnotlim0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't believe that. For example, "The Wall" reads like a gleeful revenge fantasy rather than actual consideration of facts, especially for young college aged guys (like a lot of TRP) - how would they know?

Because they have eyes and see what most post wall women look like.

Because they understand that evolution has selected for men to judge the SMV of infertile women to be 0, and the fact that post-wall women are infertile.

Because they understand that women are attracted to various attributes, whereas men are overwhelmingly attracted to one attribute: looks, and that's the attribute that declines with age.

Schrödinger's Blue Pill strikes again: sometimes a RP concept is obvious (and thus not really RP at all), and other times the same concept is a revenge fantasy. Either way, we conclude that BP wins.

[–]pinkgoldrose2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Since red pill isn't true, red pillers have no reason to believe that stuff except deep down they want to believe it. Some want to believe it because they are in love with manly men, some want to believe it to have a scapegoat for their failure, some want to believe it because they are differently able and need a guide to human interactions.

As people often say: "attract the people you are attracted to". You could stay bone skinny and find your niche, I know feminist skinny guys and they are successful with women, but maybe that wouldn't be the type of women you want to attract. Red pill is probably a guide to attract a specific type of woman and that might be who you like.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You could stay bone skinny and find your niche, I know feminist skinny guys and they are successful with women, but maybe that wouldn't be the type of women you want to attract.

Or it could be that even those bone skinny guys have something else the others don't

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

First of all, quit saying "the red pill isn't true". It's demeaning to my life experience and intelligence.

Second of all, I do not and I repeat I DO NOT want to date the "Trigglypuff" types. I am not interested in kissing Anita Sarkeesian's ass. So being a male feminist could probably attract those types. But I am not into bitchy women like that.

[–]pinkgoldrose0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

First of all, quit saying "the red pill isn't true". It's demeaning to my life experience and intelligence.

Okay, sorry.

Second of all, I do not and I repeat I DO NOT want to date the "Trigglypuff" types. I am not interested in kissing Anita Sarkeesian's ass. So being a male feminist could probably attract those types. But I am not into bitchy women like that.

I don't know what that means.

[–]PostNationalismex-PUA0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

it means OP is ....

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

What did you mean when you stated "since red pill isn't true"? I am genuinely curious what exactly "isn't" true about it. Unless you were trolling.

[–]pinkgoldrose1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

All of it.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You must be joking. Are you a male or a female? How old are you?

So you believe that women are not attracted to men with defined muscles? You believe hypergamy is a myth? Shit tests aren't real? Women like beta males, not alpha males?

You can't be serious.

Where are all the women lining up to fuck me as a beta then?

[–]pinkgoldrose2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Liking muscles isn't red pill. Different people have different preferences. Some people like muscles.

Hypergamy is when a person marries someone from a high social class.

Shit tests aren't real.

Most women like beta males, not alpha males.

Because you have a shit personality and you go for shitty women.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I was a beta male with a fine personality. You are just assuming I had a shit personality so you can justify me not doing well when I was beta. I never went for shit women.

Again, are you a man or a woman and how old are you? You sound like you are below 18.

Shit tests are real. The fact that you straight up deny that makes you lose a lot of credibility.

If red pill isn't true, how come I got better quality women as soon as I started following it then? Are they ALL insecure, stupid women? You know, since only "dumb" women like alphas.

Women ARE NOT SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO BETAS. Get that though your head.

[–]pinkgoldrose1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can tell you have a shit personality because of what you said at the beginning:

First of all, quit saying "the red pill isn't true". It's demeaning to my life experience and intelligence. Second of all, I do not and I repeat I DO NOT want to date the "Trigglypuff" types. I am not interested in kissing Anita Sarkeesian's ass. So being a male feminist could probably attract those types. But I am not into bitchy women like that.

What kind of person asks you to stop saying something because it's demeaning to their life and intelligence? I just felt sorry for you and that's why I just answered "Okay, sorry.". But then you came back prying me for more answers.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I apologize. You mist be shit testing me right now.

Its just that when you say red pill is completely false, it makes me feel like theres nothing I can do. If red pill is false, then blue pill mainstream is really false.

I just cant fathom how you could be so naive to completely deny any red pill validity. Once you see it in action I don't see how you could deny it is true.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

First of all, quit saying "the red pill isn't true". It's demeaning to my life experience and intelligence.

And by stating to blue pill men that the ‘blue pill’ isn’t true or doesn’t work, you’re also demeaning their life experience and intelligence. Being blue has worked for them, who are you to say it’s not true? Different experiences work for different people. If RP has happened to ‘work’ for you, then good for you, but don’t get your panties in a bunch when people criticize it and then turn around to criticize people who have used other methods and it worked for them.

[–]antidense10 points11 points  (71 children) | Copy Link

If red pill works on a particular woman, then that woman is probably not someone you want to have a relationship with anyway. Blue Pill works fine if you treat everyone the same friendly way, whether they're guys or girls, or whether or not your are attracted to them or not. It takes longer, possibly, but worth it.

[–]mgtownigga20 points21 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

ugh see this is just bullshit. how long is ok? Even if you get results with it over an extended time period, is it really preferable to playing the game on your terms and having options? Most guys would say no.

I'm sorry but when I see perfectly decent, beta dudes I know go sexless for long extended periods, it's hard for me to say 'lol just keep doing you, be who you are, it'll come in time lololol'. Sorry but no, it's not an optimal way of going about things, and leads to a lot of mental anguish and duress.

Let's put it this way : if the blooper way of thinking was the way to go, you woudln't evne HAVE a red pill to begin with. Why is that so hard for bloops to understand? Clearly it's not working for a lot of men, or at least it's not workin in a way they want it to, so why do you keep doubling down on it?

[–]antidense9 points10 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

The best I can answer this is just to watch Lisa Ling's This is Life documentary about pick up artists. The dudes went to a pick up artistry camp, but they didn't really learn any negging or manipulative methods to get women (at least what I think of red pill). The pick up expert taught how to portray confidence, and treat other women like people and how to communicate, and that actually worked pretty well for them.

I think the two mistakes "beta" dudes make is 1) trying to attract a woman by being extra nice to them and 2) being poor communicators. The solution is: 1) being nice/kind to everyone and 2) practice communicating with everyone. Learn how to talk to and converse with people, whether they are old, young, male, female. People notice that.

[–]theambivalentrooster9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes I think a lot of men somehow missed the message that you need to generate sexual chemistry with a woman if you want to have sex with her. Women are not turned out by ‘being nice’. That’s just basic human decency.

Now, how to generate sexual chemistry can be complicated to figure out and difficult to execute if you don’t have several inherent things going in your favor, namely looks and extroversion.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If being "extra nice" doesn't work, why do you Blues tell men to "just be nice, just be yourself"?

Why should any man be nice and kind to women who treat them like shit?

[–]mgtownigga3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

that's pretty much what trp advocates. I don't get why you people can't fucking read the basic tenets of red pill before you post. There is some theory that can get into some pua-like territory, but most of it is relatively simple.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

TRP does not advocate to “be nice/kind to everyone” what.

[–]mgtownigga3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

uh, not what I was referring to tbh. I was referring to the confidence (how to gain it) aspect and treating women like people (depedestalizing). Also learning how to converse is a big deal in trp, especially as it pertains to game. The 'being nice to everyone' thing I glossed over but still

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean that user identified two pieces of advice 1) being nice and kind to everyone, not just women and 2) better communication skills through practice. None of that is particularly RP so I was a little confused by your comment. These threads are always difficult because OP doesn’t define “RP” or “BP” and we all end up talking past each other.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Because it doesnt work. Never be recognized primarily for as 'nice'. It's what women say about you when you have no other more attractive characteristics.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok 👍🏻

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Word, too.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Word.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel6 points7 points  (53 children) | Copy Link

If red pill works on a particular woman, then that woman is probably not someone you want to have a relationship with anyway.

A fallacious assumption based on wishful thinking, ive seen it work on every 'type' of girl.

[–]frogsgoribbit7372 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I doubt that as every woman is different and there are probably more types out there than woman you've met.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You get the gist of what i'm saying, it has broad appeal, undoubtedly their are individuals who don't like it but trp isnt designed for outliers.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this1 point2 points  (50 children) | Copy Link

I sincerely doubt it works on intelligent, independent women, but I haven't had a chance to prove it yet.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Lol it does. It's just how naturally attractive extroverted men act, it's not weird it just sounds weird when you're reading about it

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I don't date extroverted men.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Most women do

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Considering the introvert-extrovert ratio is roughly 1:1, I highly doubt most women are dating an extrovert.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The rest will be single

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

.... The gender ratio is roughly 1:1. Therefore, most women can't be dating all extroverts.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm calling it. You have Aspergers.

Hey! Not a bad thing. Just don't think every other woman is the exact same as you.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I sincerely doubt it works on intelligent, independent women

It does because you can be intelligent/independent and still fall for trp-style guys, in fact in some cases ive seen it work better.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I honestly don't think it would work on me, but I haven't had a chance to see if that's actually the case or not.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I honestly don't think it would work on me

Therein lies the mistake many make, if you have taken trp ideals on-board it doesn't 'work' or not work, its not PUA, its designed to make the guy attractive and isn't obvious(unless its been done wrong).

And of course if you have a low opinion of trp/or think you are somehow special/different, of course you would think ti wouldn't.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

if you have taken trp ideals on-board it doesn't 'work' or not work, its not PUA, its designed to make the guy attractive and isn't obvious

So if it just makes the guy mroe attractive, then it doesn't work on all women.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It depends on what areas the man focuses on, you tailor it to an extent too.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Intelligent, independant women seek out men who could provide for them if needed, but wont let the man do so because they dont want to rely on another human being and give them power in that way, it may also interfere with their own personal goals. This is one of the main reasons why narcissism is more attractive than it ever has been, how can I show you that I can not only provide for myself, but also you? By putting twice the amount of effort into myself.

TRP only fails on those women if the men NEED and DEMAND that power imbalance, and some of those guys represent that and do seek that out, but they are mostly the uglier guys. Better looking men know that the idea is enough, if they look the part and present the idea of a provider by providing for themselves in excess than they can have any type of girl while also being really selfish, in todays society a selfish man can also display an idea of comfort compared to the other guys.

My old view as a teenager was like this, if women are making money now, than I dont have to work as hard, we can both slack a bit and put our money together, since women joined the fray, men dont have to be as ambitious or provide as much. Many men have developed this mindset, and women are like "uhhhh no just because I have a job DOES NOT MEAN YOU GET TO BE LAZY YOU FUCK" but they never say it to men out loud, they just avoid those men. (unless it happens to a guy they were already attached too or they didnt see it in time)

TRP makes you look really good by comparison to those guys, all while allowing a high level of selfishness, modern society is making negative traits(negative in the sense of relationships) look better and better

When those women say "where have all the good men gone?" they arent wrong, but what they dont realize is that they not only encourage men to become worse for relationships and push them further towards narcissism, but what they really seek doesnt actually make any sense. The men who have the personalities that women say they want are less pressured to work hard, because they arent rewarded for it anymore, I have never said to myself "i can only fuck her if her parents approve of me, I gotta get my shit together" that doesnt exist anymore

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Intelligent, independant women seek out men who could provide for them if needed, but wont let the man do so because they dont want to rely on another human being and give them power in that way.

Okay, that's not me. Granted, I still require my guy to have a job even if he doesn't make money. But that's more because I think most people need that sort of structure in their life.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well most intelligent, independant women are the way they are because that is how they define themselves, its where they get their self esteem and their drive in life, so they seek it out in others because they put so much emphasis on it

Im not saying you arent intelligent or independant, but I think its best to define yourself best on what you value and seek out. Being intelligent or independant is probably just who you naturally happen to be, rather than an idea that you chase, encourage and promote

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Being intelligent or independant is probably just who you naturally happen to be, rather than an idea that you chase, encourage and promote

Trust me dude. This is all I have to be proud of.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I bet your boyfriend would tell you otherwise, dont be so hard on yourself. Being naturally intelligent or independant puts you ahead of the curve, its more than enough to be proud of, and im sure theres other shit that you refuse to give yourself credit for

But feel how you wanna feel, sometimes being overly critical is by design, it works for TRP, so im sure it works for you too

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You're probably right, but INTP intelligent independent are the minority, not the types that RP works on. Its a numbers game.

[–]ayovitaBurgundy Pilled Woman3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

INTP here, it most definitely works on me.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

This is so misogynistic.

Like women are too stupid to choose who to sleep with.

Trust me. I was just banging an "intelligent, independent" woman not long ago. She has two jobs.

It works just fine but you just won't admit it.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

It works just fine but you just won't admit it.

For ONSs, sure. Not LTRs

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

We were fucking for over a month. It also works for long term friends with benefits situations too and there are red pill men in LTRs. There are also married red pill men.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Just fucking though? I've fucked a guy for periods of time who I wouldn't date.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah fucking. Ok so to clarify your view: red pill works short term, but not so well long term?

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why not long term

[–]antariuszRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (20 children) | Copy Link

It doesn’t work on intelligent, independent women, because such a thing does not exist!

[–]dailyqt 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Wow, you should get a degree in comedy! Do you wanna figure out the statistics and see exactly how many women have an income at least double that of yours? Or see what percentage of lawyers/doctors/business owners are female?

[–]darksoldierkPurple Pill0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I doubt there are any statistics that show how many of those women were hired because they were women and not because they were the most qualified. No, there wouldn't be stats on that, feminists would make sure those stats are never published. Just keep in mind that in BOD, if a company doesn't hire women, they get fined.

It's as I've always said, these kinds of rules are insulting to women since now the only assumption that we can make is that these women in high level positions are only in those positions because they have a vagina and not because they are intelligent and competent.

[–]dailyqtProcreation should cease2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah yes. Doctors and lawyers? Totally got there because they're women. Never mind that they're still largely a minority in their fields. Your logic definitely checks out!

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

Right. So I don't make six figures as a software developer.

[–]darksoldierkPurple Pill0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

Software developer? See, here's my problem, software developers needed more women so that feminist stopped targeting them and calling them sexist. So the real question, were you hired because you are intelligent and competent? Or because you have a vagina? I'd lean towards the latter.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this3 points4 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to guess the former. See, I'm pretty sure they don't care about the female software developer quota because there are 2 women out of 30 developers on my team.

[–]darksoldierkPurple Pill3 points4 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

2 women out of 30 is better than 0 out of 30. With 2 they can say "well, we are trying" which often saves damage to a company's reputation.

But, you know, believe whatever you want. You might be intelligent and competent, I don't know you, so who am I to say. I'm just saying that a career doesn't indicate intelligence or independence.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

With 2 they can say "well, we are trying" which often saves damage to a company's reputation.

Considering the founder of the company is a woman, I don't think anyone would criticize her for sexist hiring practices.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are a woman, clearly that is all the info he needs to know you weren't hired based on merit.

[–]TheBlackQuillMisanthrope1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

2 women out of 30 is better than 0 out of 30. With 2 they can say "well, we are trying" which often saves damage to a company's reputation.

Depends on how big the company is. I think smaller company wouldn't give a flying fuck, because reputation regarding diversity matters less to them. They don't have much publicity to begin with. Only huge company cares about this. Even then, it is exaggerated. There are not many women who go to STEM to begin with. That is why there are less women in STEM even though there is preference for them. Most guys still hired in STEM. I can only see it becomes a huge problem if there are large number of women who go to STEM. But otherwise, most men are still going to dominate STEM no matter what. Also, diversity practice doesn't exist everywhere in the world. I live in a country where diversity can go to hell lmao. And there are quite a number of female STEMlords in my country. For instance, chemical engineering is largely dominated by women here. Then again, no body cared about stem here. Medicine, law and entrepreneurship reign supreme. So yeah, it also depends on where you live :/

I'm just saying that a career doesn't indicate intelligence or independence.

So what is then?

[–]darksoldierkPurple Pill-1 points0 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Well, intelligence isn't about your career. It's about you. If I were to discuss, I don't know, the probability of us finding another planet to live on with you, would you be able to discuss that with me and point out interesting concepts? Would you get me thinking about things that I wouldn't have thought about if I hadn't discussed it with you? When I'm out with friends and we discuss stuff like that, it is interesting because of that one reason. Women tend to sit there and listen to you talk about your opinion, then briefly discuss their opinion and that would be it. They don't tend to defend their opinion or anything like that. They see it as a pointless conversation, which I suppose it is, but it's interesting.

In terms of independence, again, it's not about your career. How independent are you? Are you able to travel alone? Do you choose your own hobbies? Or do you go with the crowd? I hate women who say "well, my friends and I like to do .....", am I talking to your friends or am I talking to you? Are you incapable of choosing things that you enjoy?

I know way to many women who dated a guy because they wanted to go to the gym but "were to embarrassed and needed to know someone who went regularly to help them get started". Well that shows that they aren't independent, that they are, in fact, dependent on others.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Define "worth it". What's your goal?

If it takes longer and results in fewer women being attracted to you, most men see that as a loss and inferior strategy.

Would you tell all women to not bother with makeup and filters and stop trying to optimize attractiveness or flirting and just treat everyone as a friend until someone is interested? The reason many don't is because its just less effective.

[–]antidense1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I think I would suggest the same thing to women: cultivate your hobbies and interests, learn how to communicate and be assertive, develop relationships (including friendships), and follow your passions. You want to be someone that has things going for yourself. The goal would be fulfilling relationships, not just the romantic relationship but also friendships, family, etc.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If red pill works on a particular woman, then that woman is probably not someone you want to have a relationship with anyway.

awalt :)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you have no idea what 'red pill' is. It's not some smoke and mirrors act like PUA. And if you think women that are attracted to TRPers are low quality then lmao got some news for you buddy, aint remotely the case

[–]wtknightHardcore Romantic2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

RP is an overreaction to something that just developing some confidence and some qualities to impress women can fix. Of course, Blue Pill "Just be yourself." is not the answer either, rather one should become the best version of himself, and then learn how to properly market himself to women.

Men also need to keep in mind that, no matter how much they develop themselves, they will never be able to attract every attractive woman out there. Different women want different things from a man.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No man alive or who has ever been alive has ever expected to attract every attractive woman out there. Total strawman.

[–]wtknightHardcore Romantic1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you believe in AWALT then hypothetically you think that you can potentially attract any woman if you've "cracked their code." Otherwise, Red Pill should just start openly stating NAWALT and that RP will only help you attract some women.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You understand neither AWALT or RP is that's what you really believe.

[–]wtknightHardcore Romantic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

RP is a correction to the flood of men raised without strong father figures who were given terrible advice on how to navigate the dating world

[–]wtknightHardcore Romantic0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That would describe me, as well. Yet, I eventually learned to do fine without needing to go through some anger phase against women or to make inaccurate generalizations about them. As I said, RP is an overreaction.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

and that is good for you. TRP isnt for everyone - it caters to a certain type of individual. While most people in society are 'plugged in' so to speak and dont truly observe relationship dynamics, many still are able to have 'success' with women without truly knowing why.

Parts of TRP are an absolute overreaction. There are plenty of bitter and angry men in that sub. But the majority of the premise is correct.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

You should be a little more specific about what you mean when you say RP and BP. But, take a guy who has a successful sex life who is “BP” and you could rewrite this whole OP replacing “RP” with “BP.” So....

Point being, I’m sure it does work for some folks. It’s not the only way to get laid or have beneficial relationships with women. Clearly.

Also, I have come to believe that there are probably many folks who actually LOVE all the negative shit about women, it just fuels their outrage. Maybe you don’t good for you. It doesn’t make it any less subjective t to criticism because some of you “don’t like it.”

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah well either way I'm guessing beta males don't turn you on very much. I think red pill is a safe way to ensure you won't be seen as a beta.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm guessing you don't know me much. High betas where it's at.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So...did you ride the carasoul

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Eh, if you call serial monogamy riding the CC. i had 2 flings. Everything e lse was more serious. PS, flings were with beta-as-fuck dudes.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends. What do you classify as beta?

And shit, where are all the women who are sexually aroused by betas? Where do yall hang out? I must live in a red pill city or something.

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia8 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I wish I could just stay bone skinny like a bean pole, and communicate to women with words without having to pass shit tests and decode their language and actions all the time.

How is BP to blame for your lack of social and emotional intelligence? Can you show me some mainstream advice that tells men that it's okay if they can't even handle social interactions?

I have a lazy personality, so thats why Blue pill appeals to me. But I don't have women very excited to see me or attracted when I am lazy.

Can you show me a piece of mainstream advice that tells men to be lazy?

I followed blue pill feminist advice in October and the results were as expected:

What feminist advice are you talking about? I am a feminist and I haven't seen feminist advice that tells men that they should be lazy, skinny and weird.

I stopped going to the gym, and made sure to check my "male privilege" daily. I was not aggressive. I was nice and did everything blue pill and feminists would approve of.

Which feminist advice told you that you shouldn't go to the gym? And how does checking your male privilege relate to this?

So do you non reds understand that most reds wish red pill was not true? Many hate, and are disgusted that it works so well. Especially when so many naysayers claim it doesn't. Its pretty insulting to our intelligence when naysayers claim it to be bullshit...no, YOUR way is bullshit. But we wish it wasn't..

You've got to consider that we don't consider taking showers, being fit, dressing as if you own a mirror, honing your social skills, etc to be red pill advice. Those are the basics that everyone knows and that are also included in mainstream advice.

What we consider RP advice is more like being emotionally closed off and never showing any vulnerability, emotional manipulation, conditioning her like a dog, treating her like a child and belittling her to show your dominance, being constantly paranoid and installing a keylogger on her PC, flirting with other women to make her feel afraid that you are going to leave her, etc

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Can you show me a piece of mainstream advice that tells men to be lazy?

A typical mainstream advice is "to just be yourself" as a dating advice.

So if one is not athletic savy, to be yourself might be quitting lifting. If one is a little bit lazy, "just be yourself" would mean chill a little bit more. Same goes for other points he mentioned. He exaggravated those points though.

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

"just be yourself" usually means "don't pretend to be into a band just because she wears a band shirt", "don't pretend to be part of her niche just to impress her" or "don't pretend to hate video games just because she might not like nerds"

It's in regards to faking your personality so I don't see how this relates to fitness. You can be yourself and look after your health, hygiene and fitness at the same time. I don't become someone else just because I'm taking care of myself.

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's one of those things that means different things to some men than others. It very easily sounds like "stop trying so hard". Particularly because of ambiguity in what "just" means and the fact that "just" gets the emphasis. I mostly encountered that advice when I was putting in authentic effort that wasn't working (diet, exercise, trying to be social, etc). It doesn't mean "be your best self" in that context or without additional context. Having said all that I do agree with it as advice now, but I find RP's equivalents of the intended sentiment behind "just be yourself" are much clearer.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

"just be yourself" usually means "don't pretend to be into a band just because she wears a band shirt", "don't pretend to be part of her niche just to impress her" or "don't pretend to hate video games just because she might not like nerds"

If this is the message being communicated than I agree with you.

I don't become someone else just because I'm taking care of myself.

Correct. If you already taking care of yourself. If you don't than "be yourself" is a bad advice.

[–]Hellothere_14 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You need to differentiate between character and habits.

You should not change your character to get a date. However stuff like basic hygene, taking care of yourself, not staying in your room all day, or doing sports aren't character traits, they are habits.

"Be yourself" doesn't mean you are not allowed to change your habits. In fact if you can't get a date then trying to improve your habits is probably a good idea.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like that differentiation.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, JBY means:

"Don't change! you don't NEED to change! All you need to do is just keep on being your lazy, weird, unattractive self and someone will someday love you just for who you are! If you try to change you'll be seen as fake!"

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[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

So much this.

I have already told my story, but ten years ago I went through an asshole phase and my success with women sky-rocketed. I didn't give a shit about any of the women I was seeing and suddenly was treated much better and I felt like I was living in a porn movie.

I hated it so much that I tried to forget everything by entering an LTR that lasted three years.

If women didn't reward red pill behavior and if they respected you for beta nice guy behavior, I'd be as blue as a smurf.

My anger phase didn't start with a lack of success, it started with red pill success.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

THIS

[–]nomadic-oneBlack man who only dates blondes4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

100% my experience, as well.

[–]Alth12Purple Pill Man2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not RP any more, but I can relate to this. In fact one of the reasons I identify more as purple is because of the trp sub. A lot of the trp sub is just constant anger and hatred (anger phasers, I know) towards women, which isn't what the writers of trp side bar material they follow advocate for at all. Most of them on the sub never actually leave the anger phase because every day they log in to another circlejerk of bitterness and anger, so the guys never escape.

In fact to me I slid towards purple the more I realized the anger was useless, and living dogmatically to red pill philosophies was harmful to me and my life (I wasn't going to ditch the women friends I had from pretty much birth who had done nothing wrong to me and actually even supported me in going to the gym and even learning pick up, just because they're women and TRP says we can't be friends) and that it was better to make my own way in life. It brought me peace.

[–]Salty-Bastardjust an excitable boy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That advice should be interpreted as "don't be friends with someone you want to be more than friends with" is designed to keep you out of the "friend zone" and maintain your integrity by walking away from a situation that has no upside for you.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not RP any more, but I can relate to this. In fact one of the reasons I identify more as purple is because of the trp sub. A lot of the trp sub is just constant anger and hatred (anger phasers, I know) towards women, which isn't what the writers of trp side bar material they follow advocate for at all.

And this is the reason I don't post at TRP anymore because I am still in the anger phase and I don't want to spread even more doom and gloom over there, lol.

[–]Alth12Purple Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's the reason I'd tell most anger phases to stop reading Rollo. His stuffs good, but beyond the initial reading of his material it should never be revisited and none of his stuff read again. His stuff is so hard that you can never leave the anger.

[–]wattwattyOld and reddish2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If women didn't reward red pill behavior and if they respected you for beta nice guy behavior, I'd be as blue as a smurf.

Fuck yes. It is exhausting having to continuously modify all of your behaviors relative to how you deal with the other ~50% of the population (i.e. what you naturally do when you interact with people). But, doing just that is the only thing that brings any sort of result.

[–]BlueRabbit210 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It means that you are a true Beta/Omega under the pretense that you are an Alpha, much like a slutty woman who's been railed by 10 men in one night, only to go on a date with a man the next morning and tell him she's a virgin.

[–]sovietterran1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

So first off, redpill equates women having standards as women being catty evil spoiled children. It's an over reaction to being asked to do more than exist to get dates. You don't have to view women having opinions as shit tests or being an oozing misogynist to meet some standards.

Secondly, if you lose all your gains in a month and can't treat a woman like a person and still get dates that really more on you than "the wokeness of redpill". Also, since when is health and fitness against the feminism?

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Are you kidding? Feminism is all about fat acceptance.

[–]sovietterran0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You are confusing HAES extremism with feminism.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Haes?

[–]sovietterran0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Health at every size.

[–]ayovita 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Sure, a man with a fit body is attractive but honestly it's let important than his face. My boyfriend lifts because it makes him feel confident enough that I couldn't give two shits if he's slim or ripped.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's because you already are dating him, know him, and have a deeper connection. Run into him at a party? Yea it absolutely matters.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

If you don't want it to be true, then you can just use BP language to describe everything TRP does. Then you won't have to believe in RP anymore. Functionally they are no different.

[–]alreadyredschoolRational egoism < Toxic idealism4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

So masculine assertive dominant behavior is ok now it works and doesn't just attract broken women?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Masculine, assertive, dominant behavior probably attracts healthy women. It's only the overly neurotic insecure women who don't like this.

[–]alreadyredschoolRational egoism < Toxic idealism3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I kept saying that for years wow finally I hear it from a blue source.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I stopped going to the gym

I think that's the biggest issue here.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I thought it was whats on the inside that counts

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seriously? If men make the "fat women are like mopeds joke", why would you think women are any different?

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is not a convincing argument.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can frame your experiences however you want. BP and RP are just different ways to frame the same reality. If you don't like the RP way of framing things, then just switch to BP. Even in a field as vigorous as physics, there's still multiple models if the same reality. Pick which one you like.

[–]tempuserthrowaway5 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Upvote. To me red pill is what it is, and blue pill is what to do about it.

You can't say there's not a turd on the floor, but likewise you can't leave it sit there.

Maybe all we can do is put a towel over it, but at least we tried.

Thanks for wishing things were better...I sure as hell do.

But if we can laugh about them it helps.

:-)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

I mean, they say this all the time but it's not true.

They not only want but need TRP to be true because they need to blame someone else for their issues so they can feel better about themselves.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

put in "feminism" instead of trp and your point is very very true

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

Nah. It's just TRP.

But you sound super bitter about feminists.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

Lol. Do you often beat up strawmen?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Nope. I leave that to TRP. They're a good source of unintentional hilarity.

You still mad?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (24 children) | Copy Link

strawman take two? nice

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Repeating an irrelevant response doesn't make it any more relevant.

You've got a chip on your shoulder. All that anger and stress is bad for the health, you know.

chill.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (22 children) | Copy Link

Tell me more.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

About what

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (20 children) | Copy Link

That straw man you're building and burning. Provides entertainment while I take a shit

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

whether or not an RPer WISHES their beliefs are true has no impact on the truth value of their claims. I'm sure there are conspiracy nuts of all flavors who WISH their particular conspiracy theory weren't true, doesn't mean their claims are any less horseshit.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

By your username it looks like you are already so far brainwashed by the far left that theres no point in trying to debate you

[–]zergovermind0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Heh.

Perhaps going off topic. The hell.

If anyone ever told you that behaving like a feminist (like, say, checking your "male privilege". for real?) makes you more likely to get laid, then they are either very stupid or very deceitful and sleazy.

Bluepiller of mine, I don't think it's bad to respect when women don't give consent (which, at the end of the day, is imho the most important part about feminism (and perhaps the only part that really matters). at least, for men). But I would certainly NOT expect it to make me more likely to get laid.

Red pill stuff, otoh. From what I'm getting from lurking around, at their most unofensive (ie, without the manipulative shit like negging or dread game), claim that, a lot of men need to change their personality if they want to get more casual sex. By behaving like men who already get a lot of casual sex.

I, for one, don't find it such a bad thing. It's a form of dating advice, and, from what I see, it has worked for some guys. I don't see the bad in trying it, although it sounds like very hard work. Then again some guys seem happy with it. They seem to find the hard work has paid off.

[–]monkeysinmypocket-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No. Red pill guys absolutely love the red pill. They positively wallow in it. It absolves them of any responsibility for anything if everything - including the (fictional) decline of western civilisation - is the somehow the fault of women. It allows them to believe 50% of the population is intellectually inferior to them and they need to feel superior. It allows that to think it's OK to cheat and be bad in bed because it's about what they want. The women's feelings don't matter. It allows them to tell each other comforting psuedo science. Its all bollocks, but it makes them feel better, less insecure, more in control, and they fucking love it.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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